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Alright so here's another Zniggy!™ general. Some people did not believe in /vr/ doing anything more than shitposting, so that's why we elevate it to another level: shitgaming. We are at the very rough start, but the number of source material already provided is stunning. Zniggy! will definitely be a thing till' the end of this year.
Oh and I'll lobby on a crude and ear-piercing rendition on "Fur Elise" as the only choice for background music 'till every single one of these threads dies

Source, compiler and graphics from 06/04/19:
>https://mega.nz/#F!UGI3gSwC!YoLqSMWpN9WiOE5xRVkZ9Q

Source code from 06/08/19:
>https://pastebin.com/tE5ffhLM

Source code from 06/07/19:
>https://pastebin.com/PfkLS8s3

Source code from 06/03/19:
>https://pastebin.com/cR4N4ufV

All the assets and alpha gameplay .webms from previous thread:
>https://anonfile.com/cbh3Lcuan8/zniggy_6102019_rar

Good speccy developer forum:
>https://www.z88dk.org/forum/forums.php

Sound programming tutorial:
>http://www.chibiakumas.com/z80/ZXSpectrum.php

Old thread link:
>>>5620591
>>5620591
>>
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Just a quick reminder
Important aspects of Zniggy! gameplay:

1. Controls and jumping controls stiffier than first NES Castlevania
2. You press Up to jump
3. No mid-air jump control
4. Insta-death from falling of a small height
5. A forced/artificial delay on the buttons input
6. Ear-piercing shriek with reverb and delay every time Zniggy! jumps
7. Collecting items commences only when you stand in front of the item and press the button, walking through the item does shit
8. Bad decisions concerning color pallettes (first of all we have to get rid of this stupid Speccy trend of having black backgrounds; make 'em pink or cyan for more Znigginess)
9. Bad scaling ("small" enemies bigger than house or tree sprites etc.)
10. Unappealing enemy sprites such as randomly generated pixels, blocks and rectangles put together with no design, floating balls and triangles
11. A 1-bit monophonic rendition/butchering of "For Elise" as the background music (preferably only first two bars looped into infinity)
12. Random crashes occuring during gameplay for no apparent reason
13. One live, no continues
14. Game over means kicking you out from the game forcing you to boot it and load all over again
>>
Here's the link to the github if you want to try the current build of Zniggy:
https://github.com/Tamamoball/Zniggy
>>
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>>5651270
Also, here's the current state of the room list
>>
>>5651248
awesome work guys
>>
>>5651248
If its atari like idc much.
>>
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These controls/physics are a truly unique brand of terrible.

Proper speccy game right here lads.
>>
>>5651270
This is amazing
>>
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I almost forgot to describe how you (yes, you!) can contribute to Zniggy! just using paint:
1. Draw out a room that's 256x144 pixels. Make sure you use the same 2 colors in every 8x8 block
2. Create a copy of the room and trace over it, where blue blocks are walls and red blocks are ladders. Place the copy to the right of the original room
3. Draw a representation of the room below with enemies and gems placed
4. Draw out the sprites as well. For vertical moving enemies, you only need to make a single 16x16 sprite. For horizontal enemies, make an 16x16 8 frame animation, where each frame is shifted over to the right 1 pixel. The first frame has to be 8x16.
I'm going to put a limit of 8 unique tiles per room (different colors and attributes count as being different). Use the picture attached as a reference.
>>
I'll have time to some level design tomorrow. It's really cool to see what's been done already, though.
>>
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Guyz I love Zniggy so much I made fanart. no bully
>>
>>5651436
cute
>>
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Here's something that should help out with the project: a level editor! Making that wine cellar room was a pain in the ass. You need to make sure you're using the right palette, that all your tiles are repeating correctly, then draw the collision yourself, re-check everything... that's way too long! I'm too lazy! If you're as lazy as me but still want to contribute, use ZniggED!, the only Zniggy! level editor in the world!
...Well, maybe more like a "level prototyper" really. I made it real quick and dirty in a few hours. It lets you draw up to 8 custom tiles, paste them on a grid, define some basic collision, and export both the level and its collision as bmp files, so you can add some more advanced stuff like gems and enemies yourself. There's still some stuff I'd like to add, like selecting the background color or using the darker tones, but it's already pretty usable right now:
https://framadrop.org/r/Ub5jhuCFGf#uzuZyoo9lISkSIDx0VvfAIOQCEQntiph6idxpxvL0A4=
I spent more than an hour getting that wine cellar map right. I threw together pic related in 5 minutes with my editor. So what are you waiting for? Hurry up and get ZniggED!
>>
>>5651471
Now consider in the 80s they didn't have the luxury of level editors on their PCs, they had to just plot everything on graph paper.
>>
>>5651471
This works on Linux?
>>
>>5651258
>11
This should also be out of tune
>>
>>5651521
>This should also be out of tune
As I discussed in the other thread, it would be like trying to do music on an Apple II. Just a bleeper you can produce various tones with depending on how fast you toggle it.
>>
>>5651516
I don't have my debian laptop handy so I can't test, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing in there that would prevent it from running with wine.
Tell me if that doesn't work for you and I'll try to find a workaround.
>>
>>5651471
Holy shit, way to go above and beyond the call of duty. What did you program this in?
>>
>>5651534
Thanks, I can't program in Z80 but I love homebrew games and collaborative 4chan projects so I felt I had to put something together anyway. I used Multimedia Fusion, it's an old game engine that's pretty great to quickly prototype ideas.
>>
So what's zniggy's backstory? Guessing he comes from a tribe of zniggers
>>
>>5651587
He seems like a cheerful, happy-go-lucky fellow, so the game would have to be something innocent, like he's just on a quest for more crumpets.
>>
Said Randy Glover, "That Jumpman guy is a very upbeat fellow. He's always on the move."
>>
>>5651546
I too, learned an engine that never took off.

Would you be willing to share the .mfa?
>>
>>5651302
More like DOS
>>
>>5651647
Nice to still see some fellow clickteam enthusiast now and again! Sure thing, but let me warn you though: this was never meant to be anything else but a quick fix made in a few hours, I didn't expect to share the code with anyone so it's all a big mess, completely uncommented, and with a lot of weird hacks used to get it running quickly. Also, you'll need the viewport add-on.
https://framadrop.org/r/EvjSFyCVcy#9czrAcOywzCLkt2VWYoAIUbMQ5CQorYoPnX/qK/+H+0=
Feel free to improve on it any way you can if you manage to!
>>
>>5651665
Wait, that's actually the wrong file, here's the correct one:
https://framadrop.org/r/deMfJHoVm3#3SCkraga+eg4/yXyl+FDolG2+w/9cLUPFWQWqgSftoU=
>>
does zniggy has a love interest?
what about ms.zniggy
>>
>>5651670
Zniggy loves rock candy.
>>
>>5651436
Nice stuff.
>>
>>5651665
>>5651669

That's the most wanton abuse of the viewport object I've ever seen.

Totally Zniggy.
>>
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>>5651697
If it works, it ain't stupid!
But yeah, no kidding. I can barely believe the thing even runs correctly.
>>
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>>5651380
Did I do it right? The dark green snakes move up and down by the way
>>
>>5651526
The tones should still be out of tune for maximum authenticity
>>
>>5651834
That'll work, but I need to know which room you want to place it into from >>5651286
>>
>>5651859
They're out of tune by default. It is quite possibly the most primitive audio, for lack of a better word, mechanism on earth. If you're not using BASIC you need to manually set the speaker's position in software
>>
>>5651286
I'll go with 11
>>
>>5651878
On second thought, make it 38
>>
>>5651876
http://www.breakintoprogram.co.uk/computers/zx-spectrum/sound

One nice thing about IBM compatibles is that the speaker is operated by the timer chip so you don't have to devote the entire CPU to it unlike on 8-bits.
>>
It took five years, but /vr/ has its very own meme!
>>
Type A=IN 65533 in BASIC and it will make the speaker click. By employing delay loops of various durations, one can make different tones. Spectrum BASIC does have the nicety of an actual sound command unlike the rubbish Commode BASIC and its one million POKE statements.
>>
>>5651917
Analogous to A=PEEK(49200) on the Apple II, except Applesoft BASIC has no sound commands which really sucks.
>>
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>>5651898
Done. Now we have a 2x2 grid of rooms that can be walked through, along with some enemies.
>>
>>5651380
Here's a dumb little easy Zniggy! level
Level number 5: Prince Znedward Street
The Guy Fawkes masks are vertical enemies
The red Royal Mail postboxes are just platforms
>>
>>5651952
I'm going to hit the hay earlier than usual so I'll get than in by tomorrow.
>>
>>5651962
Thanks /vr/o, sleep well
>>
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>>5651952
did a companion to that city area
Level number 6: Motorway Traffic
The No Entry signs are vertical enemies
>>
Make sure to include joystick support.
>>
One thing I can say is that Spectrum games never have to worry about tasteless and unnecessary demoscener antics like C64 stuff. Euro C64 games half the time are just a vehicle for some cool programming gimmick or SID tune.
>>
>>5651286
I'l take 29
>>
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>>5652118
I adjusted my Mini cars, made them look better
>>
>>5651876
>set the speaker's position in software
That's fucking awesome! Is there are little man living inside the spectrum that moves it from place to place?
>>
>>5652287
The speaker is activated by toggling bit 4 in port $FE. You can use different delay loops to produce different tones. That's pretty much it.
>>
Can you make the number munchers guy a secret boss?
>>
>expect to have a week or two to do my room because this project will go about as fast as the Mario romhack
>people are churning out levels like crazy
>>
>>5651258
You need water drops that hurt the character. European devs loved that.
>>
Two questions

>can we flip the tiles around?

>can I reuse the vine tile from Room 54?
>>
>>5652419
Room 63's got it covered
>>5651938
>>
>>5651248
>shitgaming

aka, literal kusoge
>>
>>5651471
Fucking legend. If it was reddit, I'd give you a gold award. But thank god we're not on plebbit so I can only say good job fag
>>
>>5652445
Did you seriously have to bring your petty /v/ website rivalry nonsense into this? Gonna give you a tip dude. Only /tv/, /v/, and /pol/ flip out about reddit. You're not cool for pretending you don't browse there you're actually a freaking loser.
>>
>>5652439
*62
>>
>>5652446
Yes, we all browse plebbit, but you can't deny the place doesn't fucking suck.

FWIW, I'm not the guy you replied to.
>>
>>5652459
Oh my gosh shut up.
>>
I can make some assets including rooms/enemies/collectables sprites in a few days so I'll be back with some material
I think we need to include some inside jokes in there as well, we need a "willyvania" set of rooms, a "scotformer" room (preferably a boss one)
And we absolutely have to digitoize the british guy from the meme roight
>>5652158
That's an important one
>>5652446
imagine being that new
>>
>>5652461
Only newposters pretend to hate reddit thinking it will help them fit in. You're not fooling anyone now make like a banana and split.
>>
>>5652267
Mini coopers and floating stop signs.
Crude silhouette of Tower Bridge.

Not bad. anon.
>>
>>5652461

The Scotformer room should literally be a room set in Scotland
>>
>>5652475
It's a machine that produces scotsmen.
>>
>>5651248
This.. is an amazing project. I will monitor and if I can find some time will contribute a level or two. Excellent work.
>>
>>5652328
But I have it on "good authority" that you can change the position of the speaker through software. Are you telling me that some kid on the internet didn't know what he was talking about?
>The speaker is activated by toggling bit 4 in port $FE
Cool. How do is it "deactivated"? Sounds like bad design to me, but then again the spectrum had no shortage of that. But you're for sure certain that's how it's done this time? I'm not going to have yet another kid come along and tell me that it works a different way? Am I?
>>
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There should be Big Ben occupying 3 whole vertical maps.
>>
>tfw broke my laptop two days ago
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo zniggy ;-;
>>
>>5652590
Can you please leave? This thread's made up of 99% normal people who want to contribute, and one newfag who thinks being faggot is required to fit in on 4chan.
>>
Is there a pixel art tool that supports both drawing tiles and combining them into a tilemap?
>>
>>5653136

Nevermind, found the old free version of PyxelEdit and it works perfectly.
>>
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I think the boxart should be traced from a movie poster, like how Gryzor was. Euros loved doing that. I think Zniggy should look a little like Austin and do this pose on the box.

>>5651471
Interesting, does the ZedEcks only support up to 8 unique tiles per room for backgrounds? Jeez.
>>
>>5653189

There's no tile limit on the Spectrum because it doesn't have a real background mode, it's just a limit with the anon's game engine and a way to keep things under 48k.
>>
>>5653202
Oh is it? That's amusing. Also for maximum authenticity, it should be distributed on cassettes.
>>
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Here's a retarded level I made, is it Znig worthy? I believe you can use two colors per tile maximum, right?
>>
>>5653189
>>5653207
If you ever see any suspiciously detailed art, chances are good it was traced.
>>
>>5653258
Just add enemies floating up and down between the platforms and it's perfect
>>
>>5653262
Does the tool allow you to create enemies? Seems like it's just a level layout creator. Also the "sun" is supposed to kill you if you jump into it.
>>
>>5653265
No. You need to go into a seperate graphics editor to do that. I reccomend gimp because it's stupid easy to set up a grid in that program.
>>
>>5653273
Can I just use MSPaint to draw the enemies? I don't expect this level to have much else going on, maybe a snail walking back and forth or some butterflies flying about, I think it's kinda crowded as is.
>>
>>5653274
Sure. I just use gimp because it's easier for me
>>
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>>5653287
Man I am not good at drawing. These are supposed to be a snail, spider, and butterfly, each has two frames of animation.
>>
>>5653327
Keep in mind the spectrum isnt really fast enough to shift sprites on the fly unless you are an assembly wizard, so if it has any horizontal movement you need to store all the shiftes versions too.
>>
>>5653331
Eh, I drew them just in case.
>>
>>5653343
Eh, sounds fair. I'm not a professional, then again I imagine even the NES would make 8*8 sprites easier to make.
>>
>>5653346

Ignore my advice, I misread the instructions :^(
>>
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I don't even know what I'm making here
>>
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>>5652526
but they arent TRUE scotsmen
>>
>>5653402
That's got a nice look to it
>>
>>5653202
>There's no tile limit on the Spectrum because it doesn't have a real background mode
In practice even with bitmapped graphics, you'll want to organize your background as tiles. Difference is if you were using a C64 or NES, you'd have a fixed 256 tile limit.
>>
>>5653482
>>5653402
>nice look
well i guess its time to scrap it
>>
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>>5651952
>>5652118
Alright the rooms are in, I still haven't gotten around to implementing 8x8 sprites (only 16x16 are supported atm), so please bear with me for that. Remember that the github is up to date such that everyone can try out the latest release as soon as its out.
>>5652438
1. There's no easy way to flip tiles unfortunately, so it would just count as another tile.
2. Yes, please reuse existing tiles as much as possible (same colour, walls have to remain walls, ladders have to remain ladders). There's only a limit to how many new tiles are added; you could make very detailed rooms if you take advantage of tiles other anons made. The problem is with 64 rooms, overall we can only fit 4 unique tiles per room.
Also, for those of you making rooms, I just want you to know that rooms are compressed using a run length encoding, so large horizontal stretches of the same tile keep the room sizes down, while alternating tiles thrash through memory. But don't let it limit you too much, I might implement multiple encoding styles if we start running out of space.
>>5652158
I'll get that in eventually
>>5653506
Just my opinion, but I don't like making the game look intentionally bad. My shitty programming mixed with the limitations of the Speccy already guarantee it, so it's best to mix that with the sincerity of actually trying your best.
>>5653207
I think there's a website where you can submit your game and they'll put it on cassettes, so you anons could own a copy of this for the Speccy. On that note, if this gets finished, I was thinking of putting this up on Steam and the like. Are you guys alright with that and, if so, should I make it free or charge $5 and give it to charity (with the game being free elsewhere)?
>>
>>5653637
>Just my opinion, but I don't like making the game look intentionally bad. My shitty programming mixed with the limitations of the Speccy already guarantee it, so it's best to mix that with the sincerity of actually trying your best.
I think Zniggy must have both elements. Some rooms just have to be oddly-coloured, broken, too difficult and flashy, just for the sake of making fun of Speccy.
>>
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I think I'll take room 17?
All four sides of this room can lead into another room.

I've got no idea what I was going for. Did want something with walls that weren't just $COLOR on black or $COLOR on white or whatever. I also wanted the palette to be a little clashy.
If any changes need to be made that's okay.

I used the red ladders from the snek room.
Originally had yellow ones that looked a little different, but there's no point in having another set.

The blue enemy moves up and down. The spikes are just... well, spikes.
>>
>>5653637
I just gave it a go. The character moves remarkably unlike what you'd see in a typical Spectrum game. It's fine, but it is a bit strange. You move really fast and have a real jump arc and have actual air control.

>>5653331
that sounds like something that you'd precalc into a buffer when entering the level rather than explicitly store (unless the sprite was very animated)
>>
>>5653747
Added. Your colors were a bit off though. make sure to only use 00, A8 or FF for colors.
>>5653770
Yeah the movement was one of the first things I added, was still learning how to use the Z80. I'm going to rewrite most of the movement code when I get the chance, and probably the drawing code as well.
>>
>>5653879
Z80 is easier to code for than the 6502, especially in that you don't have to perform as many gymnastics when trying to do 16-bit math.
>>
>>5653891
That was part of the problem, I was too used to the 6502 from my experience with the VIC-20. The 6502 has way faster reading and writing to memory, which in my opinion is much better than the extra registers the Z80 has.
>>
Z80 is slower alright but has more raw CPU power, also Z80 code is more compact than 6502 code. The Spectrum has 48k memory, that would be more like 52k on a 6502 machine.
>>
File: Jet Set Willy.webm (2.07 MB, 640x360)
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Posting inspiration.
>>
>>5653909
Most of the memory used for Zniggy! is data rather than instructions. I think the Z80 shines when used in what it was designed for such as embedded systems, but for games I find the 6502 superior. My opinion doesn't really mean much though, I've barely used the things.
>>
You'd be wrong though because MOS didn't even intend the 6502 originally to be a main CPU, they intended it to control a terminal or things like that. Also yes in any game, the actual code portion is maybe a quarter of the total thing.

>PS1 games with 300MB of sound and graphics data and about 15MB of code
>>
That's why Z80 versions of Microsoft BASIC had all kinds of cool shit like double precision variables that the 6502 versions didn't have--since less space was needed for Z80 code, they could fit more into it.
>>
And after we're done, someone should do a C64 port.
>>
6502 instructions take between one and three cycles to execute while Z80 instructions can take as many as eight cycles.
>>
>>5652875
No. This thread is made up of 99% normal people and one newfags who's so desperate to "contribute" that he shitposts about things he doesn't understand. All you have to do is stop posting bullshit and no one will reply to your bullshit.
>>
>>5654263
An Amstrad port would be better since it's closer to the Spectrum architecturally and the code would port over more easily.
>>
>>5654281
I'm really curious, where was >>5652328 wrong? You bang that bit and you can control the speaker output. The speaker output is entirely controlled via software, rather than with a hardware timer like on the IBM PC.
See http://www.chibiakumas.com/z80/ZXSpectrum.php, it's under "Beeper Sound Chip". There's a sample ASM routine demonstrating basic usage.

unless you're just severely autistic, then there's no real helping you
>>
>>5654289
The most lulzy bit is that it'd be yet another quick and dirty Spectrum to Amstrad port, giving Zniggy even more of the true 80s Euro computer experience.
>>
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>>5654306
>lulzy
>>
http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~celio/mc404s102/pcspeaker/InternalSpeaker.htm

On PCs, you just flip the bits in port 61h and the speaker will stay on until you turn the bits off again. Also you can load a specific frequency into port 43h to sound on the speaker. On the Spectrum the speaker control bit in port $FE doesn't stay on, you have to keep hitting it continuously and you can't direct it to a particular frequency, you just have to use variable delay loops to produce the desired tone.
>>
>>5651270
How do I run this?
>>
>>5654359
Download the Fuse emulator and open the .tap file with it.
>>
Without using a set frequency, this will produce a continuous warble on the PC (reset to get out)

in al,61h
and al,0fch
toggle:
xor al,2
out 61h,al
delay
mov cx,140h
loop delay
jmp toggle

On the Spectrum you would do something like this (not sure if this actually works or if I got the AND bit mask wrong)

in b,(fe)
ld a,8
and b
toggle:
ld a,2
xor b
out (fe),b
ld de,$140
delay:
dec de
jpnz delay
jmp toggle
>>
>>5654307
>posts furshit in response
Okay.
>>
And on the Apple II, it would look like this:

toggle:
lda $c030
ldx #1
ldy #$40
countdown1:
dey
bne countdown1
dex
ldy #$ff
countdown2:
dey
bne countdown2
jmp toggle

The basic principle in all these examples is that if you keep toggling the speaker enough times, the clicks will start to form a recognizable tone. Like I said of course, the PC lets you feed an explicit frequency to the speaker and you can also hook your sound code around the timer IRQ which you can't do on the 8-bit machines (the Apple II doesn't even have IRQs at all).
>>
>>5654298
>The speaker is activated
>set the speaker's position
I'm really curious how you think any of that is right? "b-b-but what I really meant" doesn't mean something was right. It just means you posted without thinking. And deserve to be laughed at.
>>
>>5654515
Ah. You're illiterate and autistic. A good combination.
>>
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>>5654515
>>
>>5653879
Just got to try it. Damn, my map is actually unplayable. I'm almost glad that spikes don't work, since you can't actually avoid some of them.
>>
>>5654558
Back in the day, impossible levels like this were rarely seen as a problem, just so long as you met the publisher's 8 week deadline. :^)
>>
>>5654558
Don't worry, I'm going to redo the jumping physics to make it more in line with the Speccy, and I'll make sure that every level works as intended (even if it means changing the jumping between rooms)
>>
>>5654515
I see you never learned how a speaker works.
>>
Looks like the controls are improving.
There seem to be a couple of collision map errors, and I think some rooms are going to need to be tweaked as player physics changes, but on the whole, this project seems to be progressing nicely!
>>
>>5654601
>(even if it means changing the jumping between rooms)
That's hilarious.
>>
>>5651380
Oh dang, so the is no collision for deadly obstacles? That sucks, I was hoping there would be. I'll try polishing up my stage.
>>
>>5654764
I'm going to add it, use green in the attribute side the same way you use blue for solid and red for ladders.
>>
>>5654395
I don't think you need the XOR bit on the Spectrum. Remember--the speaker doesn't stay turned on like the PC. This just writes a 16 (binary 10000) to the port which toggles the speaker. The lower three bits control the border colour and can be whatever you want (black here).

toggle:
ld b,$10
out ($fe),b
ld de,$140
delay:
dec de
jpnz delay
jmp toggle
>>
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ROOM 22: WALKING IN THE AIR
>>
>>5654524
>>5654535
>>5654610
Both those statements are just plain wrong. I'm sorry if it pains your zoomer asses but that's just the way it is. Cry harder little bitches.
>>
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Okay, I've made a level. This only has a vertically moving enemy, some demon head I had sketch and attempted to poorly pixelize. As for room number, I'm not sure, throw it where you think it would fit best. Name, let's call it "Lordie me".

If we get any eceleb to play it, I wish it would be Ashens, he was really into those rubbish British games.
>>
>>5651248
>tfw you've entered the weird alternate timeline of the shitty AVGN movie where people literally make shitty games on purpose because "DUDE SHITTY GAMES LMAO!!"
What the fuck went wrong?
>>
>>5654927
>demonhead
That is clearly a teapot
>>
>>5654934
People have been doing it for at least 33 years
>>
>>5654959
But have they been making them shitty on purpose? Or are they just unskilled?

The description of the game literally reads like it's designed to be as shitty as possible from the start, while also being the entire reason for making the game.
>>
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>>5653637

Room 40. Some of the jumps may not be possible, I haven't actually played any of the Zniggy builds.
>>
>>5654964

Not for 33 years, but https://faqwiki.zxnet.co.uk/wiki/Comp.sys.sinclair_Crap_Games_Competition
>>
>>5654964
Takeshi's Challenge came out in 1986
>>
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>>5654967

Made some slight changes. Spikes aren't a good fit for this room, but 7 tiles is already a bit over the budget and compromising due to constraints is in the spirit of things.
>>
>>5654964
>Or are they just unskilled?
Combination of that and British software houses demanding games get completed in two months tops.
>>
>>5655063
>British software houses demanding games get completed in two months tops.
Fucking hell. They took one look at the development of the E.T. game and decided to make it an industry standard.
>>
Or else just writing the Spectrum version first and copypasting it onto the Amstrad and C64. Amstrad ports obviously weren't that difficult to do but the C64 is so radically different from the Spectrum that there was no way you could port a game without redoing it from the ground up. Not that that stopped them and hence you ended up with atrocities like Hard Drivin' when they'd just convert all the Z80 code line by line into its 6502 equivalent instructions and copypaste the Speccy graphics into C64 hi-res mode (usually even keeping the screen area 256x192). Result was some unplayable sad mess that ran at 3 fps.

You can always tell these games if you disassemble them and note that the code follows Z80 instruction patterns.
>>
>>5655091
American devs weren't immune to doing copypaste either especially Datasoft who always wrote their games around the Apple II and then just pasted them onto the Atari 8-bit and C64 while retaining ugly red and blue graphics. But at least they all shared a CPU so you didn't end up with retarded attempts to "convert" Z80 instructions into 6502 ones.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hymCz-uFSJU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDkz8n9i8e8

Here's Micro League Baseball. Sound and graphics 100% ripped from the Apple II with no attempt to utilize the C64's capabilities. The music is even still the same one channel square wave ditties.
>>
Im still working on the other version of zniggy, zniggy 2. I think it will be even worse than this one.
>>
What if Zniggy had procedurally generated levels?

https://wirehead42.itch.io/flufy-cleaning-co
>>
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>>5653637
29 is in. Is there too much enemies?
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>>5655550
Here is the first room for Zniggy 2.
I want a bit more dialogue, so zniggy
says things when you get hurt or find things,
or enter new rooms.
>>
>>5655813
Ziggy 2 better have godly optimization to increase the room count from 64 to something obscene like 256, and for the title theme to be a parody of the Halo theme.
>>
>>5655898
im not an assembly wizard dude. At the beginning of the thread there were like 3—4 different zniggy games. But the one guy who made this thread is actually good at programming, so it has come far.
But room count shouldnt be a problem. Each room uses 16×8 bytes for the tiles, and 4×3 bytes for the enemies (only 4 per room) so there is more than enough space for 256 rooms. However Im crap at programming assembly so there will probably only be one way room transitions, always going right.
>>
>>5655921
although... maybe I should port it to C64 instead.
>>
>>5651248
>not 68k
still looks good!
>>
>>5655949
Port "Zniggy" to the C64 and call it "Zniggy 2". Did Euros do shit like that, or am I confusing them with bootleggers?
>>
>>5651258
>You press Up to jump
>gamepad retards think it's bad
>>
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Room based off SQIJ

Had to fix the collision map
>>
>>5656285
Yeah, it's not a problem on a keyboard at all.

It definitely does feel weird when you're used to console mappings, and it'd be horrible on a d-pad. ...But you get used to it and after 5 minutes it's no longer a problem.
>>
Will this game have breeding mechanics?
>>
>>5654964
Don't worry; we're not coordinated enough to hit any specific quality goal
>>
Amazing how they did fit SMB into 40k.
>>
>>5656753
Compression and huge reuse of game assets.
>>
Trying to fit everything into a tiny memory space is one of the great challenges of 8-bit machines. Of course you can always go to multiload if you need more, although people will hate that.
>>
>>5654306
>>5654289
Amstrad, C64, MSX, Plus-4/C16. They sold TRS-80s in the UK too I believe. No Apple II though, barely anyone had those and anyone who did would have been enterprise sales.
>>
>>5656912
Atari 8-bit although it was an also-ran that only got shitty C64 ports.
>>
>>5656912
The TRS-80 port of Frogger was done by UK-based Cornsoft.
>>
The CoCo was sold here and the Dragon 32 (CoCo clone). They didn't make much impact in the oversaturated UK home computer market.
>>
>>5651286
i call 33
>>
>>5656812
Most later Spectrum games have Spectrum 128 support.
>>
Reminder that all dialogue should be British and all design decisions should be made larping as a British programmer (think very beta, semi-autistic, depressed, old-fashioned retard)
>>
The army's up the road
Salvation and a cup of tea
>>
>>5651380
what colors can you use?
>>
>>5655813
please wait till Zniggy! is finished before starting the second one
>>
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>>5657045

These. You also cannot mix a dark color and a bright color.

This game is making me appreciate the Amstrad's 4 color mode. The lack of attribute restrictions makes it easier to work and most Spectrum games didn't even use that many colors at once.
>>
>>5651248
Can you please make an Atari 2600 ROM of it? Playing my Atari Flashback Portable is super comfy...one of my favorite games is Asses of Fire.
>>
>>5657071
If you think trying to make a Spectrum game is a chore, try it on a system with 4k ROM space and 128 bytes of RAM.
>>
>>5657079
Guys do amazing things with Atari 2600 homebrews, though, and yes they play on real VCS's.
>>
You could do Zniggy on the 2600 but it would require some crazy bank switching since we're talking a computer with 48k of RAM versus >>5657079.
>>
>>5651471
This is great but there is no way to delete collisions
>>
>>5656912
>MSX
Man, Spectrum to MSX ports are particularly bad because video RAM isn't in the main CPU memory map, and the bitmap mode on the machine is really just a character mode (admittedly, with enough characters to fill the screen with unique graphics).
>>
>>5657109
>but it would require some crazy bank switching
Then why not do that?
>>
>>5657127
The video RAM changes a bunch. All the euro developed Spectrum to MSX ports run like ass because they're choking on video access, which is quite a bit faster on the Spectrum.
Bit of a shame, I like the MSX's video mode -- you can display all 16 colors in a tile, for starters since you had a 8x1 block for color attributes instead of a 8x8 one, and there were no bright/dim mixing issues.
Nice machine. Shame about the no hardware scrolling, and the non-mapped video memory making it beyond too slow to really go anywhere with fine scrolling (you'd usually just shift the characters on screen around).
>>
If the game was made for Atari 2600, then more people would want and be able to play Sniggy! It can still mock the Spectrum, but the Speccy is so shitty that porting a real game for its emulators only backfires in that it will get almost zero play.
>>
>>5657145
How odd. The MSX should run faster because the video RAM isn't in the CPU address space and hence isn't slowed down by contention between the CPU and the video circuit.
>>
>>5657172

Games like Jet Set Willy are more suited to a collaborative project than 2600 games, which mostly have one screen and one gameplay element. The system is harder to code and design graphics for, the existing game assets would need to be thrown out, and it makes no sense to make a parody of British home computer games for an American game console.
>>
>>5657198
The C64 and Amiga are actually American. Bongs only had the Spectrum and Amstrad for proper "indigenous" computers. :^)
>>
>>5657115
Just right click them
>>
>>5657198
>and it makes no sense to make a parody of British home computer games for an American game console.
No, it's perfectly contemptuous. We hate the Spectrum so badly that we don't even seriously emulate it, not even to make a joke.
>>
And if this only works on a Spectrum emulator or actual Spectrum, maybe 50 people worldwide will play it and make the joke funnier. Unless this is some kind of artistic statement.
>>
>>5657229

The fact that this game can and will be uploaded onto World of Spectrum is what's keeping me going.
>>
>>5657232
Touche.
>>
Suppose Zniggy was so successful that it inspired sequels, including his foray into 3d platforming. If there were to be a 3d platformer for old/weak PCs or old consoles, are there any engines that one can use that can be compiled for the ps1, for example? I'm sure you could make genuine ps2 games today by using renderware, but I'm not sure if there was a similar engine for older systems.
>>
>>5657192
The biggest issue is that because you're limited to byte-at-a-time operations through the access port, you can't do any block copying operations. Instead of contention, you're just burning through a lot more cycles to do things.
>>
>>5657245
It also needs a 16-bit template platformer installment, preferably one that looks like it is aiming for Sonic coolness
>>
>>5657245
There's a fairly easy to set-up and use devkit for the Saturn. Jo-Engine. It's got a few dumb issues (many of its functions take ints instead of fixed point numbers), but it's really, really easy.
There's the old PS1 PSYQ devkit that's a pain to setup on modern systems, but it works.
Both use C.

>>5657295
I've heard good things about SGDK for writing Genesis games in C.
Someone ported Cave Story to the Genesis with it.
but you can reasonably just pick your favorite 68k assembler and go to town
>>
>>5657295
I'm guessing an Amiga game would be much more complicated to make than ZX spectrum. But at least it would have the obligatory toybox level.

>>5657305
Can you use these tools to port the game to PC? I imagine by 5th gen, Zniggy would have gotten a PC and console release, most likely PS1, and it'd be fair for the PC version to run on a Pentium 2 or some shit.
>>
>>5657305
SNES/Genesis games were usually written in asm unless it was maybe an RPG or adventure game where speed didn't matter. Action stuff would have just about always used asm.
>>
>>5657340
>I'm guessing an Amiga game would be much more complicated to make than ZX spectrum. But at least it would have the obligatory toybox level.
Atari ST is more like the 16-bit Spectrum than anything.
>>
>>5657343
Ah yeah, and of course the Amiga would get a lazy ST port.
>>
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>>5655018
Got this in, completed fucked my compression algorithm.
>>5655751
Got this map in, 7 enemies is kinda pushing it but I'll make it work.
>>5654927
If you won't give a room number for this one I'll wait a bit to put it in. Also, the trees near the ends are a bit too close to the edges of the screen.
>>5656343
I need a room number and preferable a name. Also, can you add the spikes as part of the tilemap, and color their attribute green?
>>
>>5657347
Done in true Tiertex style where we just copypaste the Atari ST code onto the Amiga and get something that runs in 16 colours and runs at 5 fps.
>>
>>5657352

>I need a room number and preferable a name. Also, can you add the spikes as part of the tilemap, and color their attribute green?

Like this? Room 58, "Hall of the Squigeon"
>>
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>>5657372

Forgot image.
>>
>>5657372
>>5657380
Alright, got it in.
>>
>>5657342
Yeah. You can get decent results with C, but there were loads of programmers familiar with the 68k back in the day, and C compilers weren't particularly good in the 80s/early 90s.
really, there were people who wrote Game Boy games in C, the overhead isn't quite that insane, assuming your C library is backed up by some fast asm routines and your compiler isn't that shit

>>5657340
>Can you use these tools to port the game to PC?
That'd be on you.
You could reasonably write a wrapper around all the system specific calls used and rebuild the game for PC. This was a common technique for people who had the source to a game.
>>
>>5657340
>Can you use these tools to port the game to PC? I imagine by 5th gen, Zniggy would have gotten a PC and console release, most likely PS1, and it'd be fair for the PC version to run on a Pentium 2 or some shit.

Since it's a Spectrum game, it would be more period-appropriate for the thing to run on an 8086 PC with CGA graphics.
>>
>>5657436
I was talking about the 3D platformer.
>>
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>>5657352
Okay, I redone the room. Are we allowed to make multiple rooms? If so then I'll make a few rooms that link, in that case I'll take room 45 and the stage has been renamed to "Oh Deary Me".
>>
Just played zniggy.tap for the first time
It's actually more playable than I expected. Also lost my sides at OI M8 ITS ZNIGGY!
>>
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is this usable? The red mouths and eyes are supposed to move vertically
>>
>>5657462
What you need to do is make a 512x288 image and format it as follows:
1)Top left corner is the background of the stage, no enemies or gems present.
2)Top right corner is just the collission data of the stage, so just blue/red/green blocks.
3)Bottom left corner is the stage with enemies and gems placed in their appropriate spaces.
4)Bottom right is the graphics for the enemies and gems.

See this >>5651380 for more info.
>>
>>5657450
I don't have a problem with the same person making multiple rooms, more than 3 would be a bit much.
>>5657461
Someone should record some good British voice clips I can put in.
>>
>>5656285
Seriously, the reliance on 1 button joysticks even into the 90s on the Amiga and Atari ST was a huge problem.
>>
>>5657574
Excellent, in due time I'll design 46 and connect it to 38. As for the voice, it might be a long shot but see if you could get Guru Larry to record something for you.
>>
>>5657596
Just do your best fake accent.
>>
>>5657596
Don't listen to that guy. If you're American, don't fuck around with accents. Recruit people from /int/ and /bant/ to do it.
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>>5657643
Guru Larry would be perfect, though.
>>
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>>5657352

#25: Rainbows. The ladders are reused from #17, but I changed the color as I didn't think they were a valid Spectrum color.

This is my 3rd room; I'll stop here unless progress gets really slow later on.
>>
>>5657117
Because the atari 2600 has two notable characteristics that make it a pain in the ass to program for;

First, the atari 2600 doesn't actually have a framebuffer. Instead, you need to manually manage video in software while trying your best to time it with the TV beam. On top of that, the horizontal resolotion of the 2600 only 40 pixels wide, and of those 40 pixels, only 20 of them are addressable, with the second half of the frame being either copied or mirrored from the first. There are ways to alleviate this, but they're all about as complicated as they are hard to explain

Second, 128 bytes of ram is fucking pitiful. The zx spectrum has, at the absolute minimum, over a hundred times that. Any game on atari 2600 is guaranteed to either run poorly or have barely anything going on because you can't do shit in 128 bytes.
>>
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>>5657562
>>
>>5657660
Like this?
>>
>>5657657

>First, the atari 2600 doesn't actually have a framebuffer. Instead, you need to manually manage video in software while trying your best to time it with the TV beam.

I want to see /vr/ argue that the Atari 2600's arcade ports are better than the originals because there's minimum input lag.
>>
>>5657657
>t. Any game on atari 2600 is guaranteed to either run poorly or have barely anything going on because you can't do shit in 128 bytes.
Imagine being this zoomer^

Dude, there's ton of Atari 2600 games-from back in the day-that have lots going on simultaneously. Spitfire Attack is a good 'n. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq1DHAw26co

There's a lot more examples, but you have made it clear you are not familiar with many VCS games outside of Flashback or the other recent compilations that include the usual 2600 games. tl;dr they're not all Pac-Man and E.T.
>>
>>5657657
>Second, 128 bytes of ram is fucking pitiful. The zx spectrum has, at the absolute minimum, over a hundred times that. Any game on atari 2600 is guaranteed to either run poorly or have barely anything going on because you can't do shit in 128 bytes.
That and the part where you can only access 4k of ROM.
>>
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Imagine the top row is your RAM and the bottom is your ROM. That is all the space you have on the VCS. Dog bless 1970s hardware.
>>
>>5657718
And yet they made games that came close to NES quality. Git gud.
>>
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>>5657721
>And yet they made games that came close to NES quality
>>
>>5657731
t. Atari-phobe maybe some day you'll play more than Asteroids.
>>
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>>5657772
needs a room number and a room name
>>
>>5657056
it probably wont finish before the first one is completed anyway
>>
>>5657721
I wanna say there's an anecdote about the 2600 port of Xenophobe where the guy said he just did a shitload of drugs and has no actual memory of writing it, yet somehow it's more accurate than Sunsoft's NES port
>>
>>5657810
I just played the Atari port of Xenophobe and I was struck by how coloful and fun it was compared to the drab NES version. Looks like drugs was the MVP on that one.
>>
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>>5657787
#58: Love Motel. I did some change to the prite and added an animation
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>>5657896
Ok but it would require totally redoing everything from the ground up.
>>
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#50: Opium Gardens
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>>5657884
>>5657970
Fuck i just noticed #58 is already taken so i chose #60 and #52
>>
>>5657657
>my zoomer level is over 9000
Personally I find it a joy to program for the 2600. No frame buffer to fuck around with. Just put shit on the screen as you need it. A decent little sound chip so you have plenty of cycles to do that. Simple as fuck to understand. More than enough RAM to do anything you'd want to do in a 4k game. Fast efficient CPU. Fuck yeah, great stuff.
>>
>>5657657
>Second, 128 bytes of ram is fucking pitiful
That's over a thousand bits, which is plenty for simple action games. It's not like you have to store code there too like you do on the Spectrum.
>>
>>5658260
2 bytes for position, 1 byte for hp, 1 byte for state for each enemy at the minimum i would imagine
>>
>>5658281
Yeah. After all that you can only keep track of the high score to a gazzllion sqillion bajillion before it rolls over.
>>
>>5658501
Well you also probably need some other stuff to. At least a few bytes for temporary storage during calculations, maybe you want to store the address of certain procedures or tables as you do some iteration, and maybe some other meta information about the levels, and then probably the game state and a bunch of other shit like grapics and colors maybe. Im sure it racks up quite fast.
>>
>>5657896
>>5657930
C64 basic room when?
>>
>>5658513
Wasnt OP some 6502 assembly wizard? I tried it myself, and learning some other hardware feels like such a pain
>>
>>5657657
Your game is in 4k of ROM. 4k isn't that much, so later games bankswitched that, but that's a big chunk of data that doesn't need to be loaded into RAM.
If you can hardcode values from ROM or derive them from other values in RAM (or ROM), 128 bytes isn't that bad.
A game I was writing had like 96 bytes or so of RAM used for enemy positions, the current sprite to show, states, that sort of thing. Most of the rest of my RAM usage was graphics and code, all of which would be in ROM.
>>
>>5657691
You used the >t. meme wrong

That aside, I never said the Atari 2600 was a bad system, I said it was hard to work with. It actually does have some really great capabilities, especially for the time, like having 128 colors (if you're on an NTSC monitor) and hardware sprites

More importantly though, if a system has the ability to graphics at all, a clever programmer can do basically anything if they're smart enough and know enough about the hardware. Good Atari games are not a result of good hardware, they're a result of amazing software
>>
>>5658710
>You used the >t. meme wrong
Idiot, that came from the previous word, it was just a quote. Man, this board is getting dumber.
>>
>>5658510
What kind of calculations do you plan on doing? Some HD quality 3D rendering? Maybe (You) want to store the address of certain procedures in RAM but no one who ever made a 2600 game does. Same goes for graphics and colors. Maybe one byte for that super cool rainbow background. When you're coding for a device that uses ROM and has limited RAM you just don't do the retarded shit you're talking about.
>>
>>5658717
Exactly. You used it fucking wrong you retard.
>>
>>5658526
On the one hand, the C64 is easier to code for than the Spectrum. On the other hand, it's also harder to code for since the chipset is fairly complex and there's more things to memorize than just XORing bitmaps around a frame buffer and clicking a one channel speaker.
>>
>>5658882
ok
>>
>>5658657
Speaking of which, did you know the reason why SMB only scrolls right is because the NES has 2k of RAM and they didn't have enough to keep track of blocks that had already been destroyed?
>>
>>5658657
>Your game is in 4k of ROM. 4k isn't that much
It seemed huge in 1977 and in fact the very early Atari 2600 games were only 2k. Most games were 4-8k.
>>
>>5657380
SQIJ tribute is A+ anon
>>5657372
It's Hall Of The Sqijeon" actually
>>
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>>5657352
My very serious contender:
Starting room (number 35) should be a direct "port" of the front cover
>>
>>5659214
Uncompressed, you need 2Kib for 256 8x8 1bpp tiles
>>
>>5659301
I agree. I was thinking to maybe make it but I've already made two rooms and was letting others take shots for a while
The first room or maybe a neighbo(u)ring forest room should have the enemies from this artwork too. >>5651436
>>
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If you want to make a map while reusing tiles from another map:

>download Pyxel Edit v0.22 (the free version): https://pyxeledit.com/get.php
>go to File -> Import image(s) and select your image
>set the tile width and height to 8, the offsets to 0 and check "identify tiles"
>>
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>>5657647
>>5657884
Got these two in
>>5657970
I think you forgot to add ladder attributes
>>5657660
I think a few attributes don't line up here

We're running out of space faster than I anticipated, so I'm going to lower the unique tile limit to 4 from this moment forward.
>>
How many levels exactly is this thing supposed to have?
>>
>>5659730
64
>>
>>5659694

Would it help if I redid #40 to free up some tiles/improve compression?
>>
>>5659737
Nah it's fine, I'm going to improve the compression somewhere down the line anyways.
>>
>>5659207
C'mon kid. Why would you bullshit like that in a thread like this using an example like that? There's tons of unused RAM in SMB and there are a few dozen breakable blocks on a typical level. Anyone here can verify that by looking at the disassembly. Each block takes one bit to keep track of. There's even enough RAM to keep track of all the non-blocks you'd need to keep track of that your tiny brain didn't consider when making up that story. Allowing you to go backwards in the game would have complicated things and added nothing of value.

>>5659403
You're playing stone paper scissors while the 2600 is playing 3D tic tac toe brainlet. The 2600 needs zero RAM for any number of tiles.
>>
Shamus had 128 rooms in 16k (the Atari original). Not sure how many unique tiles per room it had. The C64 version had several difficulty levels for 512 rooms so it ballooned to 30k.
>>
I can't believe we're actually /vr/agdg right now. You guys are amazing.
>>
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>>5659819
>>
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>>5659694
yeah i completely forgot them, i also changed some tiles to free some memory space in both maps
>>
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>>5659928
>>
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Here's my first map:

Room #1: Backalley Ball

The red bricks are recycled from #54/#62, and the red ladder from #25. The basketballs are vertical 8x8 enemies. Thanks OP and all others for their work on this!
>>
Take for example Metroid. It manages to fit a fairly enormous world into 128k because of extensive reuse of game assets.
>>
Would Zniggy have been one of those games to get an NES version? If so, what kind of conversion would it get? Would it get a mid-80s conversion by an amateurish Japanese developer, released only for the Famicom, and completely mangle what the base game was like (Monty on the Run and Ghostbusters ports), or would it have been an EOL port by a Euro dev that tried to faithfully recreate the Zedecks experience but ends up looking more drab than the original?
>>
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>>5659301

I tried, reusing tiles from #54 so the logo wouldn't be too big. Don't think it worked out.
>>
>>5660103
It would've been one of those games that got ported to literally everything a-la James Pond and Dizzy
>>
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#50, but i need help for the name. the white enemies are supposed to be mops
>>
>>5660145
Closing Time at the Mall
>>
>>5660103
There was no NES Monty on the Run and Ghostbusters was a US game, not a Euro one.
>>
>>5660103
It would get the usual C64/Amstrad/Spectrum ports, perhaps an Amiga or Atari ST one as well.
>>
>>5660114
There's always multiload if you have trouble fitting the whole game into memory at once.
>>
>>5660191
Multiload from tape?
>>
>>5660147
I think it was changed to #52 >>5657982
>>5660160
That's perfect
>>
>>5660196
Yeah tape multiloads are annoying but sometimes if the game gets big enough, you have to do it.
>>
It can go quite briskly if you use a tape fastloader. In fact even if you make a single load game, you'll still in practice want to write a small loader program to fastload it. That's why almost all Spectrum and PAL C64 games have those loader screens with the flashing colors--it's a loader program that loads in the main program.
>>
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Changed a bit the enemy sprite and cleaned up the stairs tiles
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>>5660263
and als
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>>5660264
+also turned the green liquid drops in pee
>>
>>5660260
Uggh, those games where when you got a Game Over, you had to rewind the tape and reload it from the beginning were the worst.
>>
Defender of the Crown was the most terrible game of all.

>not only multiload, but two cassettes at that
>each land battle was another load plus each sub-game and text dialogue box, if you could even get them to load at all
>every time you Game Over-ed, you had to reload the entire thing from the beginning
>>
>>5660186
It would have been perfect for an Amiga port. They would have added a stats bar below the existing stats bar because that's just what one does when porting a game to the Amiga.
>>
its not too bad to program for the zx spectrum, too bad its so slow
>>
>>5660360
>its not too bad to program for the zx spectrum
The hardware is very simple and there's not much to it.
>too bad its so slow
And that's the problem. It's so simple the CPU has to do all the work and fluid animation is impossible.
>>
Biggest headache is probably music since you just have to use delay loops when toggling the speaker and they have to be the right amount of delay to get the tone you want.
>>
>>5660371
Well in just a brainlet I guess.
Is it really feasible to do pixel shifting and horizontal flipping in real time? Ive been storing both directions with preshifted pixels in the tape now but it seriously takes up a lot of memory.
>>
>>5655098
It's too bad that the Spectrum has a great online community/homebrew scene while nobody seems to give a shit about the Apple II.
>>
>>5660386
>Is it really feasible to do pixel shifting and horizontal flipping in real time?
I suppose animated tiles could be done but it's not as easy as the C64, Atari 8-bit, or NES as those all have char graphics so you only need to change a single byte in the video memory while systems with bitmap graphics require you to change several bytes at once. And it would eat most of your CPU time.
>>
>>5660393
I mean flipping would be negating all the bits and then rearranging the 8x8 tiles right?
>>
>>5660404
By flip he means reverse, so 11000001 would become 10000011. The best way to do so is a lookup table, which would be 256 bytes. So not a small expense.
>>
>>5660404
Wait, I misread. If you mean animating a tile just by flipping the bytes every interval, the ZX Spectrum allows you to set, as part of the colour, a flag that causes the bits to flip a few times per second.
>>
>>5660407
Doesnt neg operator flip the bits and therefore reverse a byte?
>>
>>5660414
I mean:
ld a, (hl)
neg
ld (de), hl
>>
>>5660414
That would be a great idea if this were x86 coding and we could do NEG AX. Unfortunately this is Z80 coding and such amenities as a NEG instruction hadn't been invented yet.
>>
>>5660421
uh..
http://z80-heaven.wikidot.com/instructions-set:neg
>>
>>5660421
Doesn't the Z80 have a NEG instruction though? I know the 6502 doesn't. Unless it's one of those infamous undocumented opcodes they warned you not to use.
>>
>>5660421
ZX Spectrum does have a NEG operator, so you could reverse the bits. Even without a neg operator, you could just xor $FF. I thought anon wanted to reverse the bits such that a sprite would face the other direction.
>>
>>5660424
Yeah it does. On 6502 there's no NEG instruction so you'd just do this instead.

eor #$ff
sec
adc #0
>>
Actually the 6502 doesn't have an arithmetic shift right instruction either, just a left shift one.
>>
The x86 also added a NOT instruction, but it's not (lyl) a huge deal since on the 8-bit CPUs you can just XOR $FF to do a logical NOT.
>>
>>5651248
funnt=y
>>
I should note though that on x86, you could do NEG [memory location] which would be very useful for anon's particular problem which is trying to negate bits in a table of graphics tiles. The Z80's NEG instruction only affects the A register, so you'd have to do some tedious nonsense like this.

ld a,(tile)
neg
ld (tile),a

And probably actually have to use indexed addressing since you're trying to modify multiple bytes at once.
>>
>>5660447
6502 would be even worse for this because you'd have to do some kind of snarled zero page addressing.
>>
>>5660447
(assuming table is at $C000)

ld hl,$c008
inverttile:
ld a,(hl)
neg
ld (hl),a
dec l
jpnz inverttile

>>5660436
Also the Z80 does have a NOT instruction, it's called CPL.

NOT is one's compliment negation and NEG is two's compliment.
>>
On 6502. Note that the same operation requires 22 bytes of code while it takes 11 bytes on the Z80. See what I mean when they say Z80 code is more compact than 6502 code.

(assuming table is at $C000)

lda #0
sta $fe
lda #$c0
sta $ff
ldx #8
getbyte:
lda ($fe),x
eor #$ff
sec
adc #0
sta ($fe,x)
dex
bne getbyte
>>
>>5660483
Or you could do the smart thing and skip the pointless zero page antics. Sixteen bytes.

ldx #8
getbyte:
lda $c008,x
eor #$ff
sec
adc #0
sta $c008,x
dex
bne getbyte
>>
>>5660427
Ah.. The neg wont do that. So how would you reverse the bits again?
>>
>>5660494
ah right use a table.
>>
>>5660494

>>5660469
CPL would be a promising start.
>>
>>5660503
Although, you could presumably
negate all the byte (fast)
then swap the ink and paper colors

I thibk that would give the same effect no?
>>
>>5660505
err no lol that gives you the same man i am retarded
>>
>>5660509
Wait if cpl flips the bits, wtf does neg actually do?
>>
NEG actually isn't used that often, it's more typical to just do CPL followed by INC A which does the exact same thing in the same amount of bytes (two) and clock cycles (eight).
>>
>>5660518
https://c9x.me/x86/html/file_module_x86_id_216.html

NEG is explained here.
>>
That's one of the annoying things about 8-bit CPUs, they generally only let you do math and logical operations with the accumulator register while the x86 is much freer in that regard.
>>
>>5660520
ah so it puts a minus sign in front basically
>>
>>5660534
I like it actually. However the index registers I think should have been more exchangeable
>>
>>5660537
That's correct. It's just that you can also do negation with CPL/INC A and for some reason it's more popular to use that instead of the actual NEG instruction.
>>
>>5660542
Purely cosmetic choice of which one you use I guess.
>>
The 8086 also added MUL and DIV instructions, except it didn't really add them because they're implemented in microcodes and are horrendously slow so in practice you just have to multiply and divide with bit shift instructions like on a 6502 or Z80. They didn't have hardware multiply/divide until the 286.

The 6809 had hardware multiply/divide though because it was reportedly a testbed for several features planned for the 68000.
>>
>>5660493
Oh yes, that's another annoying 6502 thing--there's no unsigned add or subtract, just the signed ADC/SBC which means you always have to precede them with SEC/CLC if you intend to do unsigned add or subtract.
>>
>>5660556
If we had a 16bit accumulator a lot of things would be easier, or two combinable 8bit accumulators like the 16bit index registers
>>
Back when the Apple II was first showcased at the West Coast Computer Faire in 1977, some people bitched that it used a 6502 rather than a 6800 or something (protip: the 6800 was not cheap and Steve Wozniak wasn't swimming in cash at the time).
>>
>>5660580
>or two combinable 8bit accumulators like the 16bit index registers
6809 had that.
>>
>>5660575
signed numbers are so fucked in assembly. Still havet wrapped my head around it, or edianness for that matter
I can understand storing either the lo or ho byte first when loading or storing into 16bit registers, but is bit 7 always the value 128, or is it sometimes bit 0?
>>
>>5660589
that sounds awesome, any /vr/ systems with the 6809?
>>
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37 Polar Panic
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>>5660584
6502 had one accumulator and two index registers. 6800 had two accumulators and one index. It also let you put the stack anywhere and it could span the entire 64k address space while the 6502 had that autism of a 256 byte fixed stack that could only go in $100-$1FF. The 6800 was never that popular because it was expensive and the 8080 had been used in the Altair 8800 (the "first" personal computer) so it quickly got a large body of software. Then the Z80 came out which could run 8080 software, used single rail power instead of dual rail, and required less supporting circuitry.
>>
>>5660592
Quite a few machines used 6809s but mostly Japanese and French business computers like the Fujitsu FM8 and Thomson TO7. It was also used in lots of arcade machines. The fact that the Z80 had tons of business and scientific software probably limited its use in the Anglo world where the TRS-80 CoCo is the most well-known (as well as basically the only consumer) machine to use a 6809.
>>
>>5660607
What about the Dragon?
>>
>>5660590
>or edianness for that matter
8080/Z80/6502/x86 all use little endian/big endian numbers while Motorola CPUs are big endian/little endian.
>>
>>5660610
There was that although it was really a TRS-80 CoCo clone. Well not really a clone per se--same chipset, but it wasn't software or OS compatible.
>>
>no unsigned add/subtract
>no NEG/NOT
>no combinable registers
>no right shift instruction
>256 byte stack in a fixed location
>doing block fills/reads >256 bytes or 16-bit math operations requires some contorted zero page gymnastics

So what's a 6502 good for? Well, mainly that it was cheap and in the very early days, it was a plus having single rail power instead of the dual rail that the 8080 and 6800 used. But it's also fast. It simply wouldn't have been possible to do the Atari 2600 with its race-the-beam architecture on a Z80.
>>
>>5660614
i want to code for this machine now
>>
>>5660627
>no right shift instruction
Very early production 6502 from 1975-76 also had a busted ROR instruction to a bug. The initial datasheets claimed ROR simply wasn't implemented yet and MOS would add it in a future revision of the chip when in reality it was there, it was just fucked and useless (acted like an ASL instruction and didn't set/clear flags properly). The ROR bug was fixed by late 1976 and never affected any Commodore PET, Apple II, Atari 2600, or anything like that.
>>
>>5660636
Any good games for the coco?
>>
>>5660636
The CoCo is an odd beast. It has several semigraphics modes (that is to say graphics characters like the Commodore PETSCII set) but games usually use bitmap mode which relies on NTSC artifacting and is very similar to the Apple II's graphics. The Dragon 32 did not implement the bitmap mode because you wouldn't get any color on a PAL display.

The sound is much like the Apple II and Spectrum--it's a software driven bleeper that you have to keep hitting continuously to produce tones. However it does differ in an important way. On the other machines, there's just a single control bit that you tap to activate the speaker. The Coco instead has a six bit control register which you write a value between 0 and 63 to. This value is the _volume_ level of the sound (thus the bigger number you use, the louder it is). Then you just do the usual delay loops to produce the particular tone you want.
>>
>>5660680
CoCo games are true Zniggy-grade shit. I'm not kidding. It was about 90% stuff made by bedroom coders and hole in the wall software companies from like Oklahoma or something who sold their products through the mail. Retail stores did not carry CoCo (or any TRS-80) stuff because Radio Shack was (obviously) a rival retail chain. So the only way you could get CoCo software was at Radio Shack itself (and they could only carry so much) or through catalogs.

So don't expect to find many Sierra/Broderbund/SSI/Epyx/Activision games on the CoCo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xcVEj4sSKc
>>
>>5660701
They dont look too bad. Do the games only have access to 4 colors at a time?
>>
>>5660184
There was, actually, though it seems to be more of an adaptation than port. For some reason Monty has been replaced with a prisoner, and the main theme sounds different since the Japanese didn't know what arpeggios are.

https://youtu.be/_kglNHHlG6c
>>
How many sound effects they game will have? And are they synthesized or recorded samples?
>>
>>5661000
beep
>>
>>5661002
But someone said something about an anguish voice in the other thread, già the fuck do you syntesize that?
>>
>>5661005
*English
>>
>>5660191
>>5660257
Multiloads only really work where there is a linear level progression, not Jet Set Willy-style games where the game is made up of one big map consisting of multiple screens where you can travel back and forth freely. Otherwise you start needing to rewind the tape to a set point to reload a previously visited area.
>>
>>5661005
Magnets
>>
current dump of the game, please?
>>
https://www.worldofspectrum.org/randomseek.cgi

Here's some inspiration
>>
>>5661290
have no idea where OP went
I can dump Zniggy 2 but there is zero gameplay
https://ufile.io/ypcxt3tn
>>
here's a tip:
>>
>>5661078
Like someone else said, it's been done but (like in the case of Defender of the Crown), it's not pretty.
>>
>>5660840
>Do the games only have access to 4 colors at a time?
Yeah it's like the Apple II. Just artifact colors. The CoCo also tended to power up with either the rising or trailing edge of the NTSC burst active which could result in differing colors. Game manuals sometimes advised you to reboot until you got colors you liked.
>>
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32 Wise Statue

i have no idea where this level design is going so i'm gonna play it safe
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>>5661840
looks like a lot of unique tiles
>>
>>5661851
well, OP never set any guide lines concerning that
>>
>>5661840
>>5661851
Honestly it looks fucking sick, I hope OP accepts it. I'd be ready to make a couple of rooms with already-made tiles if it means having more space to put this room in
>>
>>5661851
I'm not sure but I think you could maybe use the font tiles already in the game.
>>
>>5661954
font is available in the basic ROM, but he would have to reference them as tiles somehow
>>
>>5661840
Should be yelling something more English, like SHOVE OFF WANKER
>>
>>5662012
The BASIC charset is stored between $3D00-$3FFF if you want to extract them from there.
>>
>>5661005
Sound is stored on computers as a series of numbers between 1 and -1 that represent the sound wave. To approximate that using the ZX spectrum, I activate the beeper if the number is above 0 and deactivate it if its below. There's assuredly a better way to do this, but the only thing I know about signal processing is how to implement FFT.
>>5661290
The github page here >>5651270 always has the current dump as soon as its available
>>5661840
I can implement this by just drawing over the text bubble using the same routine that draws level names, it would be rather trivial. Although I have to say I would prefer something like >>5662023 for immersions sake.
Sorry that I'm a bit behind on getting these levels in, I'm in the process of rewriting a lot of the routines to work with all the different sized enemies.
>>
>>5661840
Also, I forgot to mention that with this level design you'll be able to exit the map to the left and come out on level 39. If that was intentional in a "walk into the waterfall" way that's fine, just though I'd point it out.
>>
>>5661915
>well, OP never set any guide lines concerning that


>>5651380
>>5659694
>>
>>5662023
>>5662141
yes, SHOVE OFF WANKER is a million times better, put that one in. the walking in out the other side wasn't intentional but put it in anyways, who gives a shit.
>>
>>5662184
Oh dang last thing is that the level doesn't work at 32, since you can see >>5659694 the room below has a transition upwards. It would work in spots 0,8,16,24, and 56.
>>
>>5662181
whoops, my bad then. yeah, some extra tiles were obvious clutter, i dont mind OP editing however he likes or scrapping the suggestion entirely if he sees it as out of line in any way.
>>5662187
either one would be fine, you can make the call yourself if you want to. if not, let's just say 16.
>>
>>5662184
I think it should be "NOW SHOVE OFF WANKER", the "NOW" implies that he's begrudgingly inviting Zniggy to collect the one gem but nothing more, where as "SHOVE OFF WANKER" gives the impression that it's an empty room that serves no real purpose, and is telling him to ignore it.
>>
>>5662251
I don't think there's simply enough room to have NOW in there too.
>>
>>5661814
>Just artifact colors
Wrong

>>5662141
>Sound is stored on computers as a series of numbers between 1 and -1
lol. Someone can't into binary.
>>
>>5662291
I don't mean in the machine level. I was referencing the simplest audio storage format of a .wav file, which is a series of 16 bit integers in the range of 32767 to -32768. Those are used to represent numbers between 1 and -1. It doesn't even really make sense to reference the binary itself, as there's a lot of different ways to store and compress audio, and the only important part is that a sound wave goes from 1 to -1.
>>
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>>5662271
It would occupy 17 character spaces, same with NOW TURN AROUND CUNT.
>>
>>5662438
I stand corrected.
>>
>>5662438
>no Australian localization
>>
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pardon the eyesore, but here's an idea for a room, a chris houlihan esque "error room" that the game will throw you in when you manage to warp to a location you're not supposed to. the binary reads "frank cifaldi is a self aggrandizing bitch"
>>
>>5662586
Ok. Since you can just get alphanumeric characters from the BASIC font, should not be a problem to implement, although it looks quite different from that font.
>>
>>5662597
The Namco font was used as a mockup, I spent way more time arranging the binary to read out like a hidden message than I'd like to admit. You can't really tell but the gems were drawn to look similar to the ALTTP rupees. The name for the room should be "IT'S A SECRET TO EVERYBODY".
>>
>>5662305
So next time just remember that a computer isn't the same as a wave file and you'll be fine

>>5662450
There's definitely not enough space to fit cunt in there another 5 times.
>>
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>>5662586
Slightly less ugly, we /matrix/ now.
>>
>>5662656
Unfortunately it's no longer possible to get all the zniggy as of znig 1.1 (main release, only ten 1.0 tapes were ever made) we accidentally patched all of the buggy room transitions so you cant access franks' room
>>
>>5651471
>downloading an .exe of 4chan from some random guy
are you trying to be the next lostboy?
>>
>>5662305
audio isn't just "1 to -1", it depends on the implementation and console DAC. complicated audio effects can be achieved using fairly simple algorithms, hovewer ZX spectrum isn't really capable of making speech voices unless using external hardware

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9KLnN0GczI
>>
>>5663078
Ok yeah, audio is more complicated than I said. Context matters here though, the guy was asking how the voice played at the beginning of the game was done, and I gave an intentionally simple answer. And when you say a ZX Spectrum can't make speech voices, do you mean creating voices at runtime or prerecorded? Because I imagine both are very possible. I'm also going to take this opportunity to add what I linked in the last thread
https://mega.nz/#!HKwBFKYI!Chfh6781YenGhAt6bcZDgsc3GtWpWNnGD8NsRYrDGxk
>>
This project is cool as fuck, good work anons. Someone needs to do Zniggy+ using the nirvana engine for Multidude style coloring with AY sound for some Tim Follin style prog.
>>
>>5653637
>Just my opinion, but I don't like making the game look intentionally bad. My shitty programming mixed with the limitations of the Speccy already guarantee it, so it's best to mix that with the sincerity of actually trying your best.

This
>>
Of course tons of Spectrum games had samples in them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c52F3NlLhxo

Many of these have obviously noticeable British accents. Some games are Spanish and also sound it. :^)
>>
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Finally got around to implementing the dropping enemies, so most of the missing enemies are in now. Still behind by a few rooms, but even still we're more than 1/4 of the way there.
>>
>>5663139
A lot of these games seem like they were designed to give children nightmares.
>>
>>5663114
Nah what it needs is a port to a system that has scrolling
>>
>>5662586
Goddamn great idea. I'd like to implement a glitch room anyway, since it's fucking Zniggy and it just NEEDS some broken gameplay.
>>
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VVVVVV already did a retro style willyvania scotformer like 9 years ago. You guys are too slow.
>>
>>5663263
Oh yeah? Just wait and see til Zniggy gets a port to the CoCo or some other obscure garbage
>>
OK i have an idea for a znigy spin-off.
A faked first person dungeon crawler.
Graphics sort of like ultima 1, though I suppose they could be slightly better.
Gonna do some simple screen designs
>>
>>5663169
So, C64, Atari 8-bit, or any 3rd gen or up console.
>>
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>>5663319
>>
>>5663324
Isnt C64 scrolling very poor? And what Atari system are you talking about
>>
>>5663335
>Isnt C64 scrolling very poor?
It's kinda chuggy and CPU-intensive unless you want to use VSP like that SMB conversion.
>And what Atari system are you talking about
Atari 8-bit computers (400/800/800XL etc).
>>
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I have the SHEER AUDACITY to claim the all-important screen 35, the starter screen as my own.

No enemies or gems - Zniggy gets off easy on the first screen. I imagine that ladder will go down to a cave or ladder à la A Boy and His Blob, but that's ultimately for another /vr/other to decide.
>>
>>5663345
Err, cave or Sewer, I mean to say.
>>
>>5663337
Atari 800XL was the best-seller according to Wikipedia.

https://www.atariarchives.org/agagd/chapter1.php
>>
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>>5663332
I mean the Apple 2 had might and magic
how much weaker is the zx spectrum?
>>
>>5663369
The peak year for market share was 1982 when they sold 600,000 of the 400/800s. The peak of sales would have been 1983-84 as the XL series were cheaper than the 400/800.
>>
>>5663401
Sound capability: Identical
Graphics: Spectrum has solid colors and not artifact ones, Apple II has a bit more resolution plus a proper text mode, plus 80 column support (you'll appreciate it when playing text adventures)
CPU: Spectrum--the Z80 will always beat out the 6502 unless you need to do race the beam tricks like on the Atari 2600
Memory: Apple II since it can have 64k-128k, although of course the Spectrum 128 also exists
Storage: Apple II since it was disk-based which makes it vastly easier to do multiload software (Might and Magic would be hell to implement on cassette)
Keyboard: Apple II obviously
BASIC: Fairly even, the Apple II used industry-standard Microsoft BASIC while Sinclair had their own BASIC which was quite different in how it does string handling and thus Microsoft BASIC programs need considerable modification if they make use of strings. Spectrum BASIC has commands for producing sounds while the Apple II's BASIC doesn't.
Joysticks: Spectrum since it can support multiple joystick types including Atari sticks which are far superior for arcade gaming than the Apple II's analog sticks

This is not getting into expansion capabilities and ports since those generally weren't that important for gaming.
>>
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>>5663438
>Storage: Apple II since it was disk-based which makes it vastly easier to do multiload software

You're forgetting the ZX Spectrum +3
>>
>>5663438
>the Z80 will always beat out the 6502
Careful, you're going to make some people very mad with that one. I agree, though.
>>
Might and Magic needs 64k, it would require a Spectrum 128 to pull off. The Spectrum 128 also has a real sound chip although that's pretty irrelevant for dungeon crawlers since they have almost no sound anyway.
>>
>>5663451
As soon as you try doing 16-bit operations on a 6502, you'll start hating it very very quickly.
>>
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This is from Assembly Language Primer for the IBM PC and XT. It's part of a program to convert decimal numbers to their hex equivalent. Back-porting this to the Z80 wouldn't be overtly difficult, but 6502...oh boy. I tried once converting this for the C64 or something and I gave up. Translating it into 6502 asm was beyond me.

Also I'll add that many of the programs in here are very sloppy and use poor x86 coding practices like MOV BX,0 (use XOR BX,BX, stupid) and MUL and DIV instructions when the book predates 286 PCs.
>>
>>5663452
Depends on the scope of your dungeon crawler
something like wizardry wityh random encounters might be doable
>>
>>5663495
The original Apple versions of Wizardry were 48k, those could work on a basic Spectrum without needing to resort to a Spectrum 128.
>>
>>5663505
it looks like absolute garbage though
>>
>>5663509
I know...it was an early 80s game with simple wire frame graphics that they couldn't be bothered to update until Wizardry VI.
>>
>>5663519
Wireframe graphics were fine. The bricks in VI were worse.
>>
>>5663451
I think the 6502 has faster memory access
>>
>>5663480
I don't see why anyone would need to do 16-bit math for such old hardware unless they were trying to port Pokémon to, say, the NES, especially when you're calculating STAB and double weaknesses. Gamefreak had to do some weird division/multiplication by 4 for the game boy, probably because the numbers got so big.
>>
ZNIGGER
>>
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire
WEE
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>>5663671
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809
im in love
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CoCo 3 games look like NES games
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>>5663345
Me again. I didn't realize we were limited in color selection, so here's the proper ZX colors. The trees are now birch trees I guess.
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>>5664049
Zniggy's About To Make You His Birch.
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>>5663590
>>5663459
The zero page on the 6502 is supposed to act like an extra set of registers when you're doing 16-bit operations.
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>>5664049
>The trees are now birch trees I guess
Sycamores?
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>>5664547
*Plane trees, to the British
I'd use white tiles for a Birch trunk
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>>5664559
Nah, I think I'd like to keep it as it is. It's more ugly and color-clashy, which is our goal here.
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>>5663480
But that's not a program to convert decimal numbers to their hex equivalent. It's part of a poorly written program designed to help people trying to learn 8088 assembly on an IBM PC that happens to use taking dec keyboard input and output hex for that purpose. You're never going to "backport" something if you don't understand what it is, or even what the word backport means. Writing 6502 code to convert dec in ASCII to hex in ASCII is trivial. One persons inability to accomplish it means nothing.

>>5663590
There are encryption tools for the C64 that use many more than 16 bits. There are also some games for 65xx machines that let you score more than 255 points.
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>>5664649
>One persons inability to accomplish it means nothing

I didn't say it couldn't be done, just that it's above my limited programming skills.
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>>5664649
There's also the experience points in Pokémon, which can go up to around 1,250,000, though I imagine exp calculation is allowed to be slower than damage since it's less "urgent".
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>>5664670
>1250000
why the fuck did they need 24bit numbers
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This works for doing block copies on 6502.

fill1:
ldy #0
fill2:
lda ($fb),y
sta ($fd),y
iny
bne fill2
inc $fe
inc $fc
lda $fc
cmp $fa
bne fill1

Z80 equivalent would be something this.

ld hl,$c000
ld bc,$e000
fill:
ld a,(hl)
ld (bc),a
inc l
inc c
jpnz fill
inc h
inc b
cp h,$cf
jpnz fill
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>>5664745
Z80 has a copy instruction, so you could just do
ld hl,$c000
ld de,$e000
ld bc,$0F00
ldir
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Here was the entire program from >>5663480. I replaced the MOV BX,0 with XOR BX,BX and MOV CX,10 MUL CX with MOV CL,5 ROL AX,CL which would be 8086-correct.

The first subroutine is the real problem especially those XCHG instructions. Trying to do the same thing on a 6502 would require some twisted zero page acrobatics.
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>>5662438
I got your room to work correctly, I just added a conditional to the map loader where it would just print over the room with the text. Even without the text, the room added 20 tiles.
Just so you all know, we have 136 tiles in, giving us 120 more to work with. So try to make heavy reuse of existing tiles. That being said, there might be some error in there due to tiles being accidentally being repeated and such, so don't worry too much.
I'm putting a reserve on room 0 for myself. I wasn't originally going to add a map so everyone else had a chance, but I underestimated how big of a number 64 actually is.
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After one million hours in Notepad and consulting Lemon64 on how to rotate 16-bit values on a 6502, I came up with this. Keyboard and display output calls are for C64--other 6502 machines will have to be replaced with whatever the hell the equivalent function is.
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>>5664049
Add big Zniggy! Sign above the trees.
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>>5665019
Oops, the second zero page swap should be same as the first (they're both simulating XCHG AX,BX).
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>>5664832
>muh zero page
You do realize that's just Zniggyneese for "i can't learn 6502", right?
Swapping values between registers on the 6502 is not a problem. There just isn't an instruction for it. Just like there isn't a multiply instruction. If you don't know how to accomplish those without those instructions you can't do this on a 6502. This is an absolute non issue for someone with basic 6502 and math knowledge. Calculators were multiplying numbers well in excess of 16 bits on a 4 bit processor in the 70's if not earlier. But unless you were designing pocket calculators decades ago you'd probably have no reason to know this. In that case, even thinking about how it could be done might cause your head to explode, or at very least cause you the be literally shaking.
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>>5665216
>>5664649
>>
>>5665220
>>5665216
It doesn't matter because there's lots of info online explaining how to do practically any 6502 operation you want to do.
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>>5663345
>I have the SHEER AUDACITY to claim the all-important screen 35, the starter screen as my own.
op here, fuck you, starter screen will be the one with zniggy's box cover remade into 8bit puke.
>>5665001
please move starting level somewhere else
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>>5664676
Ambition, probably. This huge math is probably also why rby were so full of weird issues, they couldn't properly do 24 bit math so they had to hack it together.
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>>5665001
Room 36, Zap to the Extreme
lots of tile reuse here
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>>5665282
should add that this uses the cloud enemy from this picture >>5651436
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>>5665282
>>5665283
Slight fix to match the shade of green to the tile in room 35
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Guh, proper 512 288 size
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>>5665312
The bottom entrance there leads directly into spikes. Get rid of the birch on the attribute side and replace it with black. Also, add some gems in there.
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>>5665313
>The bottom entrance there leads directly into spikes.
Where's the problem with that?
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>>5665315
This anon gets it. I added some gems, though.
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>>5665315
Room 37 has spikes all along the bottom, so if you walk along the grass you'd appear in the next room on top of the spikes, dooming you to lose all your lives instantly.
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>>5665339
Wasn't sure if it was intentional. If it is, fair enough
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>>5665039
Would eat up too many tiles.
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>>5665735
What if it's the screen above and written in blocks?
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>>5665735
Room #5 already has a Zniggy sign
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>>5665341
That's kind of the point
>>5653919
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>>5665735
Can't basic characters be used, like in room 8?
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>>5665847
I tried to tell them that. Just grab any text you need out of the BASIC ROM.
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Have we set how high & far tile-wise Zniggy can jump?
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>>5665220
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>>5660607
The 6809 and 6803 have zero page+16 bit registers and it takes an average of 60% less code to accomplish the same task on them as on a 6502. Z80 16-bit support isn't as simple as the Motorola chips though.

The Z80 has really long execution time between instructions which is why Spectrum games often use double-buffered graphics. The execution time between instructions also varies a lot, for example HL is considerably faster than using the IX and IY registers. A given program's execution speed can vary a lot depending on what instructions and registers are used. I've had cases where I found that the smaller, more memory-efficient routine ran slower than the one with a larger memory footprint.

Neither the Z80 or 6502 has terribly good stack handling although the former is preferable for compiled languages. Also the 6502's fixed 256 byte stack at $100-$1FF is bullshit.

Z80 assembly language is a bit easier than 6502 asm since the instruction set is more "obvious".
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>>5665001
>he added it in
thank you
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One of the obvious advantages of the 6502 was that all the major systems that used it were gaming-friendly home computers. And of course Atari consoles and the Famicom. Whereas the TRS-80 CoCo had that mighty 6809 under the hood, but it was driving ZX Spectrum-tier hardware.

Most Z80-based computers were business-y types of machines with monochrome text and CP/M with no gaming or home computer kinds of features. The Spectrum, Amstrad, and MSX were the major Z80-based home computers and none of them had a presence in the US market. As far as consoles, you had the Colecovision, Sega consoles, and the Gameboy.

Arcade games other than Atari's rarely used the 6502. Japanese arcade games almost exclusively used Z80s in the early 80s, then switched to 6809s by mid-decade as the price of them dropped.
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>>5666058
Z80 machine code is higher level than 6502. Unless you have some macro capability in your 6502 assembler you're going to spend a lot of time repeating routines for 16-bit operations.

In Z80 there are a lot more registers, instructions to move a block, search for a byte, output block to port, input port to block, adding/subtraction 16 bits, adding/substraction without carry (in 6502 you have to make sure the carry flag is set or cleared) conditional returns/jumps/calls (saves a lot of code)
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Machines like the Speccy, VZ/Laser, Tandy CoCo, all could have had much better graphics with a little extra logic. But it seems logic was expensive and much more time consuming to develop in those days. The SMS came out in 1986, about 10 years after the first home computers.

I think that main reason for such, 'attribute' based graphic systems was cost of RAM - so they made color graphic with low RAM usage. Machine like Spectrum 16k could not be done with some better graphic (palette based) - because video RAM only would be more than 16k.

And similar stays for C64. Where sprite logic and other was present - likely not less complex than some better graphic logic. Plus higher resolution/color depth means more graphics data to move around. That was why the Amstrad and MSX2 were so slow--their graphics modes were really too much for an 8-bit CPU to handle. Same applied to the DHGR mode on the Apple II.
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>>5666127
Actually, wait states were a problem for the MSX which slowed down the CPU.
I couldn't find a CPC page that said anything about wait states but it might have a similar issue.
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>>5666135
I meant that high-res graphics modes were too much for an 8-bit CPU to handle. The Amstrad and Apple II DHGR mode had 16k graphics pages which just took absolutely forever to fill. But yeah in many cases it was also a bottleneck due to wait states.
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>>5666135
The Apple II and CoCo had no wait states when accessing video RAM due to their architecture.
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The "click the speaker continuously" sound hardware on the Apple II and Spectrum is really CPU-intensive. The Spectrum at least does have an IRQ you can use while the Apple has none. IRQs or a timer setup like on PCs would have made sound on the Apple II considerably easier.

The Z80 and 6809 are better at moving data around and math operations, decisions and logic not as clear-cut.

That said, the Apple II could do a lot in the hands of a really skilled 6502 coder (cf. Appleworks).
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The shame thing is that 6502s were pretty much never pushed higher than 2Mhz while Z80s got to 8Mhz and even faster.

Most of you would probably lean towards the 6502 simply because the big home computers used it while the Z80 didn't have much outside the Spectrum line and Amstrad which didn't even have hardware sprites+scrolling.
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the nice thing about both processors is that they initially kept motorola and intel out of the home pc/computer market

At least those that were interested in extending the lifespan of both processors like WDC and Zilog themseves saw the potential of upscale versions of said processors, like the z8000 and the 65816
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>>5666182
I don't particularly see what good there was in keeping Motorola out. The 68000 was an absolutely god-level CPU that blew everything else out of the water while the 16-bit successors to the Z80 and 6502 were utter garbage by comparison to it, let alone the later entries in the 680x0 line. The 68000 programming model still holds up well to this day as the basis for the Coldfire processor line which are very popular in embedded systems.
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>>5666182
Are you dumb? Intel literally WAS the home computer market for its first few years. The Z80 was an enhanced clone of the 8080, the dominant home computer CPU at the time.
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>>5666180
There we go. The Z80 is the superior chip technically but the 6502 was used in better, more interesting computers than the many dozens of faceless CP/M business machines with green monochrome text.
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>>5666201
The concept of a consumer-level home computer didn't yet exist in the Altair days. Those early kit/S-100 machines weren't marketed, sold, or serviced as home computers. The consumer home computer was effectively born with the TRS-80.
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This is 26. I'm also claiming 34 so I can tie this and the start room together.
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get in there Zniggies and Zniglettes:
>>>5666334
>>>5666334
>>>5666334
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>>5666097
You're ignoring the PC88 and X1 for Z80 and FM7 for 6800.
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How's this for a level?
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>>5666058
>60% of people with an IQ of 60 claim 60% of some bullshit
Yup



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