[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/vr/ - Retro Games

Name
Spoiler?[]
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File[]
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 84 posters in this thread.

05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
06/20/16New 4chan Banner Contest with a chance to win a 4chan Pass! See the contest page for details.
[Hide] [Show All]


Janitor acceptance emails will be sent out over the coming weeks Make sure to check your spam box!



File: unnamed.jpg (94 KB, 900x900)
94 KB
94 KB JPG
What went wrong?
>>
>>
>>5433460
wanting to make huge amounts of money instead of working with small teams of passionate people that would make games with soul, yeah it's not a fucking meme. I hope it were.
>>
Blizzcon 2018 was a real eye opener for me. I didn't want to acknowledge it, but the company that gave us classics like Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, WoW, etc is dead and it is never coming back. I was actually really sad when I realized this.
>>
>>5433490
>the company that gave us classics like Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, WoW, etc is dead and it is never coming back.

I agree with you. The company is responsible for gathering together a great group of people. The people who made many of the great games of blizzard's past are spread out over other companies or are retired/dead. Diablo II was my favorite Blizz game, and after the 3rd one came out, I realized that there was never going to be anything as good as II ever again.
>>
>>5433470
fpbp
>>
Where is the people who made those game?
I know the guy of Diablo is working together with the Path of Exile developers, but what about the others?.
>>
>>5433460
>blizzard back then
we have to make a game that's good or it won't sell well
>blizzard now
we have to make a game that will sell well, being good is optional
>>
>>5433460
Made too much money too fast and lost too much key talent.
>>
>>5433549
Here's a chart, which goes up to somewhere in the 2010's. It's a bit old now, obviously, but it gives you an idea.
People like Bill Roper, David Brevik, Matt Uelmen, etc, all these incredibly talented people just left for greener pastures one by one.

Brevik said he was sick of leading a team, he wants to just create, so today he's working on a project completely solo, because he enjoys that more.
>>
Brands arent people, the people that made it great left.
>>
>>5433470
Why do idiots keep asking this? How do people still not know it was after the merger that blizzard lost it's soul
>>
>>5433470
/thread
>>
Typical story of company being subverted for the political agenda of pushing """progressive""" ideals and alienating their core fan base.
>>
>>5433460
Warcraft 2 was the last good game by them.
>>
>>5433834
That's retarded, they started sucking in the 2000s, long before that shit started flaring up like it has now.

>>5433836
Objectively incorrect.
>>
>>5433490
>classics like Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, WoW
Don't ever mix Blizzard North with Blizzard SJW
>>
>>5433460
The entire video game industry went wrong
>>
>>5433836
Lol
>>
>>5433460
Activisions cancer got the best of them
>>
>>5433460
The only correct answer is canning the creator of Diablo and ruining the story of Starcraft.

They've chosen to fall back on Wow and yet that can only go on for so long. Video game companies that don't put out critically acclaimed games will eventually go under once everyone bores of the current trend.
>>
>>5433460
Social justice. Liberal devs just can't help themselves.
>>
>>5433460
World of Warcraft.
/thread
>>
>>5434394
You have a 12 year olds conception of Blizzard Entertainment. SJW shit didn't come to their forefront until very recently.
>>
>>5434429
That' shit lingered in people's heads since the early 90s
>>
>>5434439
Yeah, but it's in recent years where it's absolutely exploded and you have companies desperately trying to pander at it.
Blizzard has sucked for quite a lot longer than that.
>>
>>5434410
You don't /thread your own post you silly billy.
>>
>>5434459
But I'm right though.
>>
>>5433796
Obviously Activision's cancer has been ruining Blizzard, but what happen to make the two merge in the first place?
>>
>>5434475
Mmmm nah. Pre-activision WoW in general was pretty great. Wrath of the Lich King is easily among the best MMO experiences I've ever had. Like the whole thread said, it was the merger where they lost their soul.
>>
>>5434476
Simple, Activision saw WoW printing money for Blizzard and they wanted to get in on that.
>>
>>5434481
>best MMO experiences
Making WoW guaranteed that we will never get another real Warcraft game, and it completely killed their output of anything that wasn't feeding into the WoW money printer for five years.
>>
>>5434496
I'm still angry over everything WoW related. Every single fucking character became a raid boss or was corrupted by demons or murdered for plot reasons or something equally retarded. I remember a few years back people were circulating a rumor that the time dragons were going to do a reset on everything in preparation for a Warcraft 4 but that never happened. Even if they did make one the campaigns would suck just like the SC2 ones.
>>
>>5434496
>we will never get another real Warcraft game
As someone who hates RTS games, I am fine with this, though I can understand why this upsets fans of the first three games.
>>
>>5434483
Yeah but why did Blizzard agree to it? I don't understand.
>>
>>5434665
Different anon here.
They were both owned by the same parent company and decided to pool their resources and buy their shares while doing a merger. They claimed the companies would only be merged on paper but their operations would be kept separate. But over time it became clear that wasn't entirely the case.
>>
I'll make a mildly educated contribution:

It all started around 1998 when they began collecting data from StarCraft users. After the following US lawsuit, things went silent for 2-3 years, but in 2001 they did it again when they updated the TOS for Diablo 2 with a clause saying something like "and we may search your computer for anything we want", to which there were seemingly only protests in Germany, leading to a change of the TOS by adding "if permitted by law" and Blizz defending themselves by saying "we can write anything in our TOS, because if it's illegal, we couldn't do it anyways".
That's basically the first big instances of Blizzard being "a company".
>>
>>5434696
I have never even heard of this and I was playing lots of Starcraft at the time. Can you expand on it a bit?
>>
>>5434696
sounds suspicious
>>
>>5434707
Wikipedia mentions it in a brief paragraph:

>StarCraft privacy lawsuit

>In 1998, Donald P. Driscoll, an Albany, California attorney filed a suit on behalf of Intervention, Inc., a California consumer group against Blizzard Entertainment for "unlawful business practices" for the action of collecting data from a user's computer without their permission.

As far as I remember, gamespot published a huge load of court documents regarding the case back in 1998.
>>
>>5434717
Man. I guess I was just a kid who wasn't paying attention.
>>
>>5433490
>t. Boomer mad he doesn’t have a phone
>>
File: IAvBrEb.gif (3.12 MB, 480x270)
3.12 MB
3.12 MB GIF
>>5433460
>>
>>5433460

the suprise success of WoW messed with there heads and changed there entire value structure as a company to where they didn't trust there own games anymore and turned them into shit for profit
>>
Objectively it happened a long time ago, but 2018 was the year I truly realized that the blizzard of old was gone, never to return. Feels bad, man.
>>
>>5434504
The first two SC2 campaigns are awesome gameplay-wise.
>>
>>5435194
Your not bating me with them there's.
>>
File: Bn0Z.gif (145 KB, 500x375)
145 KB
145 KB GIF
>>5435761
'they're they're, they're they're
>>
>>5434717
i dislike how my current generation doesnt give a shit about company going through your personal data. its like common practice for them.
>>
>>5436057
i say this because i mentioned this once when i used to play overwatch and the response i got back was "yea, so what? everyone does it" which is true but its a bit disappointing to see we accept this behaviour
>>
>>5436057
>>5436061
They volunteer their privacy to the world on Facebook. With that mindset, someone digging around for info isn't all that different or even worse.
>>
>>5433460
>/v/-tier thread
Gotta go back.
>>
>>5433460
Diablo 2 happened
>>
>>5436137
Are you saying that Blizzard was founded after 1999?
>>
>>5433460
Diversity Hires. And Greed from Upper Management.
>>
>>5436479

this thread is not even remotely related to retro. learn how to understand things next time
>>
>>5433630
So that's why WoW didn't feel like a Blizzard Game.
>>
>>5436496
You read like a vapid moron who doesn't understand a simple time-line.
>>
>>5436061
>"yea, so what? everyone does it"
>>
>>5436159
Diablo 2 was their last great game, Warcraft 3 was their last good game. They were never the same afterwards.
>>
>>5436508

> attempts to argue that events from the mid 2000's and beyond somehow qualify as "the 90's"

> says i don't understand timelines

my sides
>>
>>5436514
I remember people bitching about WarCraft 3 constantly when it first came out. Usually about it being a SC rip-off and not something "revolutionary".
Hell, I even remember some morons whining about Diablo 2 back in the day that it's "too bright" and the element of terror and grittiness is gone.
>>
>>5436572
>Usually about it being a SC rip-off and not something "revolutionary".
I mean there were certainly parts which I think weren't excellent, but the game DID bring some cool new things to the table compared to Starcraft.

>whining about Diablo 2 back in the day that it's "too bright" and the element of terror and grittiness is gone
I can see the angle, and I definitely think Diablo had a stronger atmosphere and mood, but Diablo 2 had its own kind of terror and grittiness.
>>
>>5436592
D2 single player was still atmospheric. It's hard to carry fear forward when going all out 8 players though. Nothing is as scary with a bunch of your friends.
>>
>>5436479

hurr why can't we discuss breath of the wild in this forum? are you saying nintendo was founded after 1999????
>>
>>5436718
>retro powerhouse falls from grace
>not retro
What did he mean by this?
>>
>>5436061
Actually we're talking about scanning the user's hdd for files associated with cheat tools. At least that was the idea. However Blizzard claims they hadn't yet come to use it when the protests began.

Blizzard's GFraizer wrote the following on the bnet forums back then, when the potential espionage was discussed:
>Well that concern is not going to be addressed. If you play on Battle.net you have to agree to the rules.
>>
>>5436760
Yeah Blizzard was one of the only companies actively trying to fight cheaters back then. They really sucked at it through as I remember a cheat tool I used in custom games worked fine for years until my game crashed after I tried to use it one time. Newer anti-cheat solutions have been developed since then and I'd argue many companies are far worse about it. That doesn't excuse the casual invasion of privacy blizzard does though.
>>
>>5436861
I think it's because they screwed the pooch on that with Diablo, because character files were stored locally and nothing stopped anyone from futzing with them.
They wanted to do better, but uh, really didn't.
>>
>>5436753
>What did he mean by this?

probably that it's not retro, unless the OP was specifically and exclusively talking about blizzard "falling from grace" pre-2000, otherwise it's off topic and this thread should be moved to another board
>>
Here's the actual fact, John Romero should have gone to Blizzard after Id to make Daikatana with the Dablo 2 engine and then lead development on all projects other than WoW.
>>
>>5433460
Everything.
>>5433836
*Starcraft
>>
>>5437293
>Daikatana with the diablo 2 engine
It wouldnt be a 3d FPS if that happened.
>>
>>5437319
it wasn't suppose to be, it was suppose to be like Kotor in an engine that was feasible at the time. NW wasnt ready.
>>
>>5433460
short answer. activision and the guy in charge quit/retired.

long answer. blizzard was always an overrated dev. diablo 2 & starcraft were the only games they made that were truly worth a damn.
>>
>>5437356
Warcraft 2 should be on that list. WoW was and still is a good mmo in terms of lore and content.
>>
>>5437361
>WoW was and still is a good mmo in terms of lore and content.
warcraft as a setting i just never found interesting no matter how many times i tried to in the past. i don't know if it has to do with them throwing their notes away with WoW or the the fact that everything is practically frozen in time with the alliance vs horde conflict because "what if they make a warcraft 4?".

at least diablo has the benefit of it's darker tone, starcraft being a knockoff of the more successful GW property or hell, even fucking overwatch has the potential and could have been something interesting if blizzard actually cared. but warcraft always just felt boring.
>>
>>5437356
Diablo is arguably a lot better than Diablo 2 in many ways.
>>
>>5437447
i like the classes alot better in 2 than in 1
>>
>>5437452
They're a lot more distinct, that's one advantage 2 has.
>>
>>5433490
The writing was on the wall long before D3 came out with a RMAH, around the time WoW made a sharp decline from "lore filled land for Blizzard lovers" to "Casual themepark that wants as much money as possible." I know I am mostly alone in thinking it was over long before the recent bullshit. Considering 80% of people I knew played WoW during Pandland when the bullshit light was flashing red 24/7. Hearthstone had some heart for a card game but that didn't last past the first few expansions and Overwatch stole LoLs base and drove the concept in to extinction which is why Fortnite happened. That's right, Fortnite is Blizz's fault.

Luckily this is /vr/, which means none of this bullshit exists so... How are you guys enjoying Tides of Darkness? So fun! XD
>>
>>5436057
>>5436061
>>5436068
I know you think this is service based that somehow Blizz being corrupt or FB being ran by a sellout makes those two platforms any more likely to scan/sell your data. The truth is that just about everything you do on a device connected to the internet can be accessed or recorded by corporations/Hackerman. The fact that companies put this shit in their ToS is because they had already been doing it long before that.

So lamenting the fact that zoomers welcome it with an open butthole is nothing to get upset about, its literally happening at all times and has been for as long as paper has existed. I know you guys have filled out a job app and simply sharing your SSN is over-the-top personal.
>>
>>5437468
>Overwatch stole LoLs base and drove the concept in to extinction which is why Fortnite happened
You're delusional.
>>
>>5433460
They kept making games for their audience, their audience got old. Diablo 3 sucked at launch but got fixed, Heroes of the Storm was amazing and no one cared, Starcraft 1 was the best selling game of all time before The Sims, Starcraft 2 was hella
>>
File: 1548727370094.jpg (48 KB, 640x656)
48 KB
48 KB JPG
>>5437503
>Heroes of the Storm was amazing and no one cared
>>
>>5437503
...hella polished but the RTS genre was dead, Overwatch game so late that people waiting for a new TF2 had given up waiting...
>>
>>5437507
it's fucking stupid that Dota 2 and LoL didn't add extra maps

HotS had some bad maps but at least 6 were very good

and the characv
>>
File: 1517203326521.jpg (17 KB, 480x318)
17 KB
17 KB JPG
>>5437503
>but got fixed
>>
>>5437510
and the characters were the most unique and creative imaginable

balance was awful sometimes, but on one good patch there was a pro tournament where basically every character but Nova showed up as a legit pick and Nova was picked in one game as a dick around
>>
>>5437512
Diablo 3 ended up better than Diablo 1 and 2 by the end, no question to anyone without goggles on, but no one cares because the world moved on

Blizzard didn't get worse, it's fans' tastes changed and making the same games with more polish made less and less money until now Blizzard IS worse and a dead husk

another example is Cataclysm
They revamped the starter areas to have a bunch of unique quests and make the game the absolute opposite of "bring me 10 pelts" bullshit. You got to herd spiders, remote control a bug into a hive to blow it up, fight off a T-Rex from horseback, drop bombs and flotation devices out of a hot air balloon, and so on.

And people just bitched about wanting to go back to vanilla.
>>
>>5437525
>Diablo 3 ended up better than Diablo 1 and 2 by the end

said literally no one ever
>>
File: can't stop laughing.gif (1.58 MB, 480x270)
1.58 MB
1.58 MB GIF
>>5437525
Stopped reading at the first sentence.
>>
>>5437525
>Diablo 3 ended up better than Diablo 1 and 2 by the end, no question to anyone without goggles on, but no one cares because the world moved on
i like diablo 3 too but don't kid yourself it's piss easy. I'm almost halfway through it and i haven't even died once.

>They revamped the starter areas to have a bunch of unique quests and make the game the absolute opposite of "bring me 10 pelts" bullshit. You got to herd spiders, remote control a bug into a hive to blow it up, fight off a T-Rex from horseback, drop bombs and flotation devices out of a hot air balloon, and so on.
only the goblins & worgens had starting zones like that and followed a linear storyline but it just abruptly ends and you're dumped into a newbie zone where you still have to do "get X items" quests. sure they have questlines for each zone but they also end abruptly and are only meant to serve as plot hooks for a raid or dungeon.

they wanted to do something like guild wars where you had an entire PvE campaign but didn't understand how to implement it. WoD was probably the closest they ever got but everyone hated it partially because garrisons turned WoW into a facebook game.

>And people just bitched about wanting to go back to vanilla.
because WoW got easier with each update and the hardcore community hated it.
>>
File: 1524074212-2465518262.jpg (597 KB, 1600x1200)
597 KB
597 KB JPG
>>5433460
I'm an rts fan, and while I started on homeworld (too stupid to get past 3rd level), blizzard has done me justice falling in love with the genre.

I got into the games in order of warcraft 3>>frozen throne>>starcraft 1>>starcraft 2. I'm so content with these games that even after playing a dozen others I could still just play bliz rts exclusively and still be content.

Older bliz fans may knock sc2 cause it doesnt have the mood or writing of the 1st game, but if you regard the gameplay, it's as fast and polished for it's time as the original was. I still havent played an rts after 2008 that has surpassed its mechanics and smooth gameplay, or half as competitive in multiplayer.

My gripes were when the game went online only. I remember playing bots to practice offline, then after time I went back and I could only play bots in online games I hosted by myself, such a backwards idea that takes an unnecessary toll on machines that would be fine offline.

The upside is recently they made the game free, which I used to get a few friends into the game, and their not great but they got good enough to play co op together for fun.

Never cared much for diablo or wow, so I didnt really care when those games got worse with bliz over time, I just care about their rts, and we'll have to see how warcraft3 remaster turns out but I'm still excited, but I am still concerned with how the whole online only experience has been going, sc1 certainly wont be any less enjoyable in decades to come based on how the servers are faring, single player is still pristine.

>inb4 warcraft 2 fans tell me my taste are shit because they refuse to admit sc1 is the gold standard of rts
>>
>>5437583
What do you mean you're almost halfway through diablo 3?
The game is about farming greater rifts infinitely.
>>
>>5433490
Hearing that Starcraft 2 wasn't gonna have LAN play did that for me.

The good news is, at least they're doing the remasters/rereleases with Starcraft and Warcraft 3. We can just play those if we don't like the new stuff.
>>
>>5437583
>diablo 3 got too easy
This

I play it on the console with friends as a party game, that's how damn easy it is. It's still fun, but I make them play on hardcore and we all drink to have a good time. Even the hardest difficulty makes it hard to die if your competant with the game.

Of course, at launch infernal was impossibly hard because it was running off the busted auction system, but launch diablo3 was a shitshow and I think it's kind of unfair to compare diablo3 2013 onwards to its launch with how much it improved.
>>
>>5437689
yeah I remember when 3.0 added letting you up the difficulty once on the first playthrough so I gave the game another try and I did get through to the end that time but still the butcher was the hardest part and then easier and easier
>>
>>5437468
If this is your logic, lol stole sc2 fanbase.

Esports was much better with sc2 as its head than lol, overwatch, fortnight at the forefront.

Imo sc2 was the only acceptable successor to sc1 for the big esports scene, I know it sounds contemptible but I always viewed league similarly to how people view fortnight now.

And it wasnt the gameplay, its what the playerbase became before long.
>>
>>5437714
I might have been okay but I quit in 2011 because they still hadn't announced a new fucking map.

If you complain they compare League to fucking soccer having one field. Imagine how shitty Brood War would have been with one map even if it was a great, balanced one like Fighting Spirit or something...
>>
>>5437432
This is exactly why I loved warcraft but never cared about wow. The lore and stories were so good I'd read books on the strategy games. But the mmo never did anything with its story, like I remember it coming out when I was in middle school and I just kept asking my friends what happened in wow after frozen throne, and they'd give me some convoluted answer of events that I already knew about. Looked into thatvshit myself and literally nothing happened, and nothing still happened since. All these fantastic characters built up that are basically just used as 'skins' for raid battle bosses.

The trailers for expansions make these games look like their filled with story, but seeing how bad it is in the actual game just put me off from the start.
>>
>>5437696
The worst part is that while butcher was a reasonable boss for gameplay he was shit for the story.

Every act had a significant act ending boss that was amped up throughout, and the butterfly lady would have been perfect for act I especially to avenge deckard caine but they threw in this no name instead and had her as a throw away minor boss in the following act.

I know people bash 3 for the plot, but I feel like with some tweaks it could have even been decent in its delivery.

Act III was fantastic though from a setpiece/story though gameplay point of view.
>>
>>5437525
jesus christ the reek of zoomer is strong on this one
>>
>>5437525
>Diablo 3 ended up better than Diablo 1 and 2 by the end

Completely and utterly WRONG

Diablo 3 is a sin that can never be taken back; Diablo has been ruined for all time
>>
>>5437773
I've never been able to give a shit about the story in any of the warcraft, starcraft, or diablo games, new or old. So the Butcher in my memory was a moment of "hey, maybe this game will work up to being good" but it never did.
>>
>>5437773
Are you kidding me? Fact 3 was basically an episode of Scooby-doo, with a bufoon of a villain spamming nonstop about how you pesky kids were trying his devious plans

VR is beyond redemption
>>
>>5437773
>but I feel like with some tweaks it could have even been decent in its delivery
No, it really fucking couldn't, that shit was beyond insipid.

"Adria was the REAL villain all along!" I mean go fuck yourself Metzen.
>>
>>5437714
Something newer players don't seem to understand is that "eSports" are completely fake/manufactured. To say that the competitive nature of any of these games was important when 0.01% of the population ever competed is foolish. The eSports lie exists to encourage people to think a game is more than what it is. That applies to all the games you mentioned, its just a marketing tactic that makes a game seem more relevant. It just got out of hand when LoL came out (before sc2).

"Did you see cockmunchx get that penta during HXC15', god he is epic." "I wish i could land assdrives like tripleponyjagger" "new meta"

I have always had this cute thought that all matches in "eSports" are a prerecorded game and the "players" just stare into the monitor. Might be a stretch but highly likely.
>>
File: 1552114751763.jpg (100 KB, 958x960)
100 KB
100 KB JPG
Has anyone here ever played a custom patched version of Diablo 1?
>>
>>5437870
there's a lot of good diablo 2 ones out there
>>
>>5437862
>the competitive nature of any of these games was important when 0.01% of the population ever competed is foolish
Yeah, welcome to the world of competition as entertainment, almost nobody plays football professionally yet millions of people, many of whom are too fat and lazy to lift a foot and kick a ball, follow this shit
It's almost as if it was precisely for that reason that it works...
What a retarded post.
>>
>>5437808
what is VR re: Diablo?
>>
>>5437862

well I mean... every piece of art a homo sapien or other species ever made was fake by that lens

I'm guessing you can't enjoy any non-e Sports at this point in your life? Some people want to connect through the games they play, so they want to feel a game is more than it is because it's a game that they share with other people that play and / or follow the game.

I guess if you've never had a really in-depth discussion about the meta of a game you wouldn't understand.
>>
>>5437904
Marketing and artistic merit are two very different things. Being unable to see the difference is the real problem.

Games with artistic merit come out all the time but without millions of dollars thrown in to online bots, advertising campaigns or eSports prize pools they don't reach the same amount of people. Because "major" games can produce much more capital from basically nothing they are able to make bigger and less artistic games while also influencing the industry. I personally miss connecting through games, old Blizz games wouldn't be worth shit if the design of the game didn't encourage friendships and rivalry's to flourish in a healthy way. If their company lost anything it was the design philosophy that let two average Joes login and become friends. eSports is one average Joe interfacing with a marketing campaign, a one-way street.
>>
>>5437952
You really think ad campaigns really had no influence on the history of how you went through interacting with video games?
>>
>>5437952
I truly agree that they are very different, but they bleed into each other.

And I completely feel you on Blizz. Yeah, totally about the interfacing!! I remember when I thought when SC2 came out you would be able to network in a way where you'd be in a league of people in your skill range that would meet at recurring times to play out a league over time like with fantasy MLB or whatever which was already out at the time along with Facebook. But there was nothing like that and Blizzard killed keSpa and so on and so forth.
>>
>>5437862
This has gotta be bait. Either you've never gotten into any competitive sport whatsoever and think its wwe for some reason, or your just being disingenuous just to rustle peoples jimmies.
>>
>>5437985
I don't think he's faking feelings; I think he's prolly never been deep into competitive sports.
>>
>>5433460
Everything after Diablo 1.
>>
>>5437952
You know that the original starcraft had massive tournaments that filled stadiums, right? Something can be excellent and popular at the same time.
>>
>>5438000
Slayers Boxer really elevated Brood War in Korea in a way legitimately comparable to how Michael Jordan elevated the NBA. People don't remember now how it was before the NBA, or when there was also the ABA.
>>
No doubt that sc1 was genre defining by itself, brilliant single player and also a hit on multiplayer.
Can the same be said for LoL/OW/any eSport game post 2007?
>no single player
>game constantly changing in huge ways for "balance"
>cash grab bias in development
>in-game eSport ads
>1 gorillian $$ prize pool!!!!!!

>>5438000
It's not an issue of popular == bad, the games just aren't excellent but somehow popular. sc1 was excellent, sc2/HotS/OW? Not so much. Just like with a game like Artifact they fabricate an eSports scene as a marketing tactic to boost relevance, for a bad game.
>>
>>5438124
I agree with you, I'm the anon who hated league when it came out, it followed sc2 in the esports scene and not only took a lot of the sc2 fanbase but it blew up even more so, bigger than any esport before and it got so bloated that it and every esport that followed had that same overly corporate feeling surrounding the esports scene.

I'll defend sc2 cause it had one of the best campaigns I had seen in years (WoL) and its mechanics havent aged at all despite being a decade old.

Havent seen much of artifact, but I can believe you when you talk about their marketing trying to pretend it has an esports scene to sell the game, but that doesnt mean every esport you look at is artificial because of that.

The Fgc is a good example of that: fighting games started back in the arcades and then tournaments got bigger when they went to home consoles, and now during the streaming age we've had massive tournaments for the fighting game community, but none of it appeared over night by some fake marketing it was 30 years in the making.
>>
>>5438154
>Let's kick this revolution into overdrive
>>
>>5437993
Do you actually think that D1 is better than D2?
>>
>>5438227
They're both so damn good, gawd
>>
>>5438227
The Diablo 1 vs Diablo 2 argument is almost shot for shot the same argument /tv/ has on a daily basis but with Terminator 1 vs Terminator 2.
>>
>>5437670
endgame maybe but I'm doing the campaign and it's basically just my crusader & templar bro just deus vulting shit up left & right.
>>
>>5438124
i still believe to this day that E-sports is a cancer that killed competitive multiplayer gaming. it made everything so homogenized now it's boring.

>no singleplayer
this is the sad part of overwatch. if they had a singleplayer or some sort of cooperative campaign in a permanent capacity it could breathe new life into the game. the archive events clearly showed that they can do it.
>>
>>5433632
Americans are taught to hold brand loyalty and be a good consumer to keep their unsustainable economy going. Stop being logical about things.
>>
File: dude.gif (1.99 MB, 352x264)
1.99 MB
1.99 MB GIF
>>5437862
>>
>>5433834
What the fuck are you smoking?
>>
>>5438478
he's from /pol/ just ignore him.
>>
>>5438124
>Artifact
everything i heard about artifact sounds it was actually a fun game and valve just royally screwed the pooch with it...
>a 20$ digital TCG when all of it's big competitors are F2P
>with no possible way of grinding out free cards at launch
>missing alot of it's promised features
>removed practice mode in a update
>no trading
>no phone or tablet port again which is something it's biggest competitors want
>fired the game's lead designer (who was the guy who initially went to valve with this game idea) after a few months of the game being out.
...i expect that if they can't get a tournament scene off with it they'll probably quietly kill it off like L4D3.
>>
>>5438534
>no phone or tablet port again which is something it's biggest competitors have.
i had to fix this.
>>
>>5433796
honestly I just learned about it a year ago or so. I just hadn't followed Blizzard closely after I stopped playing WoW back in 2004.
>>
>>5433460
World of Warcraft
>>
>>5437356
>What is lost vikings.
>>
>>5438648
As a warcraft fan, this
>>
>>5438534
Oh THAT'S what artifact was. Damn I thought you guys were even talking about a better game than that. That was the biggest miss at announcement. Valve should just stop pretending they care about games and stick with steam, their announcements are just the biggest letdowns for their die hard fans. Seeing that get boo'd by the crowd was pretty satisfying though, current gamers are finally getting a spine these days unlike 3-4 years when they'd let AAA companies walk all over them and pay them for it.
>>
>>5438648
In the sense that it made them a fucktonne of money and they changed their ways, yeah lol.
>>
>>5438848
in fairness if it wasn't 20$ i probably would've given it a chance since it was made by richard garfield and given that the last set he worked on, dominaria was arguably the best MTG set to come out recently so he clearly still got it.

at the end of the day he probably should've went to anyone but valve for a MOBA based TCG. for all the people who rail on EA for their shitty practices valve is practically the opposite end of the spectrum in regards to shitty game companies.
>>
>>5437862

Funny... this is exactly the same way I feel about football, soccer and hockey (to mention just a few fake sports out there)!
>>
>>5438832
nobody cares
>>
>>5433460
no Lost Vikings 3.
Diablo 3 was garbage. Warcraft is uninteresting etc. etc.
>>
>>5433460
>what went wrong
look at early games like blackthorne blizzard started out shit, got lucky for a bit, then returned to shit
>>
>>5439974
>Warcraft is uninteresting etc. etc.
Negative. Warcraft lore is awesome, despite bring convoluted as fuck now. Its humble beginnings as a simple orc vs humans simulator turned into something beautiful with WoW (vanilla to LK).
>>
>>5441429
I'm not a diehard blizzard fanboy, but blizzard games now are mediocre at worst, saying their shit games implies you only play blizzard games and nothing else.

Look at what else we have to contend with: Battlefront 1 and 2, destiny, anthem, every assassins creed, mass effect andromeda, the rest of AAA shows that blizzard still puts in a lot of time into polish and mechanics of their games, even if you dont think they live up to the older games compared to other stuff out there they are much better. Overwatch, hearthstone, Hots, hell even diablo 3 plays better than most the other AAA offerings even if it falls very short compared to diablo 1 and 2.
>>
>>5441460
Agreed, warcraft has some of the most enjoyable lore you can find in gaming anywhere. It's what makes the wow fans so invested in the world even when the story iitself is scarce compared to the rts games.
>>
File: Warcraft_I_-_Footman.jpg (75 KB, 776x779)
75 KB
75 KB JPG
>>5439974
WarCraft was neat when it first started out. Yeah, it was pretty run-of-the-mill as far as fantasy worldbuilding goes, but it had a nice dark aesthetic to it and did a great job creating an ominous atmosphere.
>>
>>5434504
>I'm still angry over everything WoW related. Every single fucking character became a raid boss or was corrupted by demons or murdered for plot reasons or something equally retarded.
Looking at the dumpster fire that was Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2's story it's highly doubtful that a Warcraft 4 would have had a good story even if WoW never happened.
>>
>>5441712
at least assassins creed did have some good games (ezio trilogy, pirate game & egyptian game) i don't think that i ever got into any blizzard game that wasn't diablo or starcraft related and went "wow this was an amazing"

>>5441460
the only thing that i ever found intresting in warcraft was the lich king stuff & the fall of gillneas and those effectively were ruined by stupid shit (getting cucked out of killing arthas by DMPCs and the whole worgen arc was basically just be a plothook for raids and will seemingly never get a satisfactory conclusion).
>>
>>5433883
You are aware North did only Diablo 1-2, right?
>>
>>5437361
>WoW was and still is a good mmo in terms of lore and content
Are you fucking kidding?
>Muradin isn't dead
>Mal'Ganis isn't dead
>Cenarius isn't dead
>Every single character of note to die in Warcraft 3 miraculously survived, faked his death, was brought back to life because reasons.
Wow. Such great lore, much writing.
>>
>>5433460
World of Diablo when?
>>
>>5438003
Retarded zoomer.
>>
>>5442596
That's Diablo 3, and it sucks cock.
>>
File: starcraft.png (1.24 MB, 1016x603)
1.24 MB
1.24 MB PNG
>>5433460
talent leaving, being greedy and focusing on making money over story/making a game fun.

I would also say there is a shift in the gaming 'community' to where the new group of SJWs came in. Blizzard hired them without really realizing what a cancer they are and became corrupted from the inside out. I can't blame them, I don't think anyone could have recognized a new group coming into gaming outside traditional nerds and see a problem with it. but they came in and began demanding they censor/change things. from what I've read, the culture at blizzard has shifted dramatically too and I would bet they have a pretty big part to play in that.

they were great at one point and had a good run. really showed how far you can take video games as a fun/creative medium. they're not ever coming back.
>>
>>5433532
I sadly feel exactly the same, Diablo 3 made me never be hype for vidya ever again.
>>
>>5442850
Much sad

No for real though, your better off never being hyped for games this gen, and if they do end up amazing then you'll be pleasantly surprised. Destiny was all the proof we needed that companies are now better at generating hype with ideas than they are at actually making good games. Destiny had more hype than anything I had seen, and I never bought into it but it's clear from all the people who did that it was a colossal disappointment.

People for some reason forgot this game and then started freaking out over mass effect andromeda, sea of thieves, no mans sky, anthem, the list keeps going on and on, but the point is if you cant get hyped anymore than you wont get lied to. Hype is the only reason these games get half the sales they do, cause they don't deliver on any promises to someone looking at what the game avtually has in it post launch.
>>
>>5443394
*this gen onwards
>>
>>5433460
Well, since this is /vr/ and we can only discuss things from before the year 2000... Nothing went wrong at all, why do you ask? Blizzard is still riding high on Diablo 2 and gearing up to release Warcraft 3, everything is looking up!
>>
>>5438478
>he's never objectively looked at the shit he's playing
>>
>>5442832
Warcraft 3 is my fav bliz game, so I'll definitely be buying the remake when it comes out. I was pleased with what they did on the sc1 remaster, and I hope they dont change any of the writing or story in warcraft, if they dont then I'll probably he content with it.

I'm also very biased to wc3, to me it's the best combination of story and lore in gaming, other games may have better story or better lore, but nothing does the combination half as well in a single title. I've also been waiting eons for anything warcraft that isnt wow, so if I can pay them for going back to warcraft I will.

A lotta people think a warcraft 4 story would shit at this point, and I've gotta agree with them, both the writing from newer games has gone downhill but also they'd have to contend with the shitfest that is the wow story, and everything it undid from the warcraft games. So a remake is a nice alternative where if they dont change the story/writing, I can at least hopefully see if they improved on mechanics after all these years. After this remake, I dont really know/care what blizzard does in the future, their games in the past are so polished and timeless I can be content being stuck in the past with them.
>>
File: 1551624494483.gif (2.74 MB, 400x224)
2.74 MB
2.74 MB GIF
>>5443406
Please anon no.
>>
>>5433460
Companies like this are no longer staffed by gamers or people with any passion for games. These guys went into the field cuz it's an easy 9-5 and because the masses eat up just about anything (how D3 was considered successful enough to get an xpac is far beyond me) they don't ever have to care about QC or finer details.
It's just a bunch of business jockeys taking over gaming because it's a ripe, waiting corporation.

>>5443468
I seem to recall hearing at one point that WC4 had been drafted with the idea of happening after WC3 and WoW could just be 'non-canon' or something. Which is fine by me as Battle for Azeroth has the player character hobnobbing with actual fucking Azeroth which is just-- what now? Where do you go after that? "Oh yeah the dude who rubbed shoulders with the actual embodiment of the planet is here." Who the fuck is supposed to beat that out for significance? Only Magni can do that and he's, like, a polygon people now.
WC4 based off WoW would be a clusterfuck. Thrall, who's now literally just Superman-- from a different planet, wields fantastic powers beyond the comprehension of most, has a weird -el name (Gor'el vs Kal-el I believe?)-- is gonna be all like "shit I wish we had the guy who talked to the actual planet to just come out and shit on them with [whatever legendary weapon they gave them]."

If WoW was retconned in the Warcraft lore it might mean good things for WC4.
>>
>>5433460
i just want another good RTS
>>
>>5442818
>Diablo 3
>MMO
Fucking idiot.
>>
>When they canceled the Starcraft FPS game.
>When I found out they charge 10 dollars to change a line of text (BattleTag).
>When I created a support ticket and got some pajeet that didn't help.
>When they want you to upload government ID for any support request.
>When they focused on W.O.W. for years and didn't make a true sequel to the RTS.

They are shit.
>>
>>5443531
>If WoW was retconned in the Warcraft lore it might mean good things for WC4.
I love both Warcraft and WoW and I always thought that WC4 would just be what happens after TFT from a WC perspective (not WoW perspective).
>>
>>5444207
>be me
>got WoW & D3 as part of a deal
>don't really care about WoW but basically get up to unlocking deathknights before i got bored with it and cancelled my subscription.
>D3 finally comes out and it's a fucking shit show so i ultimately stop playing and forget about it and my battlenet account.
>years later find out my account was stolen via a email i got from blizzard perma banning me from D3 for auction house manipulation.
>spend my entire afternoon going through the hoops to get my account back.
>they don't unban me from D3 despite having proof that i never touched the game after the first few weeks of launch and someone hacking my account.

battlenet is a fucking joke.
>>
>>5444196
It's basically WOW.
>>
>>5444525
>it's basically WoW because they gave it a more stylized artstyle that every blizzard game has.
get fucked retard.
>>
>>5444575
Unrelated, but that style is extremely horrible, and part of why Blizzard sucks now.
>>
>>5444234
The WC3 “remake” is retcon WC3 lore to match and fit in with the modern WOW lore. The remake is also giving Syvannis and Jana more story due to WOW. Even though they really didn’t make a huge impact in WC3...
>>
For me it was Starcraft 2. It was halfway through the Terran game where they completely changed Kerrigan’s entire character and I stopped playing after that. Years later I read about the ending to Starcraft 2 and if I played the game and saw that bullshit ending I would have been pissed.

Kerrigan was such a great character then they change her into a space Jesus and make her a good guy again at the drop of a hat? Fuck that.
>>
>>5444729
What do you mean Kerrigan is a good guy space Jesus?
>>
There is no more innovation in the industry. All the good designers and writers are dead or retired.
>>
>>5444728
>>5444234
>Christie Golden, the writer on several Warcraft novels, is working on the project to retcon some of Warcraft’s original story so it falls in line with “World of Warcraft.” Those changes include featuring some characters who didn’t get much focus in the original game more of a spotlight.
>>
File: patrick.jpg (12 KB, 240x240)
12 KB
12 KB JPG
>>5437685
oh boy more rehashes

cant wait to buy the same games again
>>
>>5438359
>seething nonsensical garbage out of no where

O B S E S S E D
>>
>>5437714
>I know it sounds contemptible but I always viewed league similarly to how people view fortnight now.

It's not contemptible at all. League has a really detestable online community, full of obnoxious third worlders in internet cafes and dumb zoomers.
>>
>>5433470
Fpbp
>>
>>5444728
Sylvanas had entire campaign dedicated to her in TFT, why they feel the need to "expand" that? Nobody likes the bitch anyway at this point.

I am also quite concerned how many thing they are going to retcon with this Reforged version.
Golden spoke something about bringing Arthas closer to his "book counterpart". Meaning a whiny Kylo Ren shithead instead of a snarky, ruthless asshole we know from WC3.
>>
>>5444732
Bump what happened to Kerrigan in SC2?
>>
>>5445956

It's been a few years so I might get this wrong, but here goes

Kerrigan is smashing shit in Wings of Liberty, first installment of 3 in sc2. We start to find out she has a "purpose", theres a reason why she's doing bad stuff, it's not like shes really a villain, d-desu. Theres a new big bad villain, think hes called Amon or something, but hes a terribly written zerg/protoss hybrid god that's gonna wipe everything out, not like those zerg, the zerg were just gonna stop him, their just misunderstood or some shit. What they did to the over mind was worse than kerrigan, over mind is somehow alive and knew about amon and was planning to stop him or some shit, maybe that's wrong it's been so ling I just remember getting pissed about that halfway through WoL.

Anyway, Jim Raynor gets an "artifact" that is gonna obliterate surrounding zerg. Cool, were gonna wipe them out. End of WoL, Kerrigan is attacking humans on zerg home planet, Jim boots up artifact, and it wipes out most all zerg on their home planet. Kerrigan is fine, the zerg part of her was wiped out and now shes a regular human again. Jim picks her up and walks off into the sunset with her in his arms. Okay. What?

Next game she then works to get zerg powers back, but it's not like shes evil or anything, shes just gonna stop Amon. Befriending zerg and earning back their trust was fun, not gonna lie, but the ending lost me cause she flies off into the abyss once she returns to zerg mode Kerrigan, seemingly making the last game pointless, and goes to hunt down Amon.

Third game is not good enough to recall what happened, but Kerrigan and protoss get along despite that being literally impossible if you actually played original and saw the characters, but whatever, the story is too fucked by the 3rd installment for me to care.


Btw I loved the mechanics and gameplay of sc2, the campaigns were really fucking good if you could ignore the writing and story. Gameplay was really solid
>>
>>5447360
I kinda forgot Amon was in that game. That's how bad of a villain he was.
And it's blatantly obvious that Blizzard didn't have a clear idea where they wish to go with the story and were winging it from the start. Character motivations change within seconds, the story pulls some ideas straight out of its ass (Duran, Overmind retcon, "Tassadar"), some plot points are borderline stupid (Do you expect me to believe that Tychus - a run-on-a-mill marine - is capable of killing off Kerrigan?). Overall it's a mess.
>>
>>5444728
DROPPED



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.