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>steals Argonaut's concepts for Super Mario 64
>possibly the same fate that happened with Diddy Kong Racing
>cancels Starfox 2 only to steal its code for multiple later games
Nothing personnel, Argonaut
>>
>>5424684
>Retro 2D games were a mistake --Shigeru Miyamoto
Worst retro dev ever 2bh
>>
Truly a disgusting man
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>>5424684
Why does Japanese people often have yellow teeth?
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>>5424684
The whole philosophy of Nintendo since the 80s is to copy Walt Disney's business model and apply it to computer games. What did you expect?
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Lots of "omg so based" industry leaders are actually thieving, backstabbing cunts IRL.
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>>5424840
Shigeru must have the golden medal for this, though.
>>
proof?
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>>5424852
Trip Hawkins was worse.

Unless Shiggy was also the one who ordered the hit on Gunpei Yokoi.
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>>5424684
Steals concepts? More like they hired Argonaut staff to work on Super Mario 64.
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>>5424852
Miyamoto is a creative genius you cretin.
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Steal what? 6502C assembly code? Yeah, I'm sure that really helped on the N64.
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>>5424861
https://www.shacknews.com/article/80104/why-super-mario-64-owes-croc-legend-of-the-gobbos

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/new-history-shows-nintendo-used-unethical-practice-29416768/

And many more if you search a bit. I wanted to link an e-celeb that talked about this in further details, but god forbid if you do something similar in /vr/, let alone for the fact he's a character often hated for some reason, so people is even more biased.

>>5424884
Anon, that was Argonaut's idea to begin with. Initially both them and Nintendo were glad to work and make it possible, but when things were starting to become big Nintendo cut every connection with them, possibly because they didn't want a game so innovative with their mascotte being developed by someone else.
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>>5424887
And also an incredibly cynical backstabbing liar.
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>>5424684
Genius!
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>>5424839
Touché
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>>5424893
I think this Argonaut guy is too full of himself to claim Croc was "the world's first 3D platformer", there was that old game I-Robot from the 80s.
There were also other 3D platformers before Mario 64 and Croc, and comparing Croc to Mario 64, they don't really look similar.
The Starfox thing might be true although SF64 is much better than either SF1 or 2.
What's funny is that Argonaut's Cuthbert ended up directing SF643D later.
>>
Isn't Shiggy also a bit of a racist against Westerners, despite his family-friendly image? He's not Yuji Naka-tier, but he looks down on Westerners.
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>>5424997
have you seen westerners lately?
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>>5424893
>mascotte
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>>5425020
ikr, Nintendo's mascotte is of course Birdo.
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>>5424893
Hmm... this is just San-san being bitter. But the guy was awarded an OBE, so what is he complaining about?

Is Croc actually good?

In the link it says Miyamoto actually approached San-san at a conference and thanked him for the idea of a 3d platformer. If true, then was is Miyamoto being an arsehole? He didn't have to say thank you.

I actually think the original Star Fox is a badass game and more intense than Star Fox 64. It would actually be a better game to Star Fox 64 due to its more fast paced action, except the N64 game has much advanced graphics, sound, variety etc. But why the hell is San-san so bitter? Would Super Mario 64 actually have been a better game if it were co-developed with Argonaut? Does Croc have anything going for it that Mario 64 doesn't? It's pretty obvious that Nintendo took what ever idea Argonaut showed them and spent a lot of time and effort developing it further. Don't you know that ideas on their own are worthless? Developing an idea into a product is what makes it valuable.
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>>5424997
>He's not Yuji Naka-tier
explain?
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>>5425056
>"that's what we could've done if you didn't boycott us"
You call it a boycott, they went separate ways. Nintendo wasn't obliged to work with Argonaut until the end of time.
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>>5424978
>There were also other 3D platformers
The one you mentioned was an arcade and wasn't even that much known, while Mario 64 was the one that made actually popularized the genre if not even pioneered for console.
>comparing Croc to Mario 64, they don't really look similar.
That's because they're obviously not similar, at least the finished product isn't. Croc was a simple after-thought just to say "that's what we could've done if you didn't boycott us", oblivious to the fact that at that point Nintendo had already stolen the concept of their Yoshi game. This is also substained by the fact of the incredible similarity between the latter's design and Croc's, not changed just to piss off Nintendo. Croc was also intendes as a Sega Saturn exclusive and that too speaks for itself.
>The Starfox thing might be true although SF64 is much better than either SF1 or 2
A game for a whole different generation which made important changes in pretty much every aspect is better than the one of a previous console, color me impressed. Being a sarcastic faggot aside, that's beyond the point.
>What's funny is that Argonaut's Cuthbert ended up directing SF643D later.
Yes, it's indeed ironic... But money is money, I think.

>>5425053
I think he's just generally assblasted, who wouldn't have been after being so much screwed over... Croc isn't as good, but it could've been. By no means Mario 64 would've been better with them, but I also think it's a matter of honor and respect that they should've worked or co-worked on it anyway, what Nintendo did was sneaky and shady. Don't get me wrong, I agree with some stuff you said, especially the last lines, but it's not like Nintendo gave them an opportunity to begin with.
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>>5424893
>>5425049
?
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>>5425062
Well, they did go separate ways on a very "coincidental" time, though.
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>>5424840
I don't remember who said it, but I remember a quote saying something along the lines of "if you aren't willing to kill your loved ones for a million dollars, you are not fit for the world of business". I guess it's true for a lot of places.
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>>5425071
?
I know the term mascotte has now become a meme for whatever reason, but I didn't use it in a such a way.
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>>5425071
>>5425080
Oh wait, you mean the spelling. That's how we type it in my country, it really depends from where you're reading. Both are right.
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>>5424684
He also plagiarized the concept for Yoshi
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>>5424997
Westerners suck
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>>5425168
No, just you.
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>>5425179
Yeah, I'm a half breed who posts on the internets cesspit. I completely understand why a nip would hate me.
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>>5425091
Cool story but this is an EOP board so you're wrong. No amount of ESLsplaining will change that.
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>>5425350
they had a fairly normal discussion, your negative input isn't needed you seething weeaboi
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>>5425359
>my shitpost is needed
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>>5424893
>We had built aVirtual Reality gaming system for them called Super Visorthat would've been awesome, but instead they canned our project - which was full colour, had head tracking and 3D texture mapping - and released the ill-fatedVirtual Boy in its place.
Damn, this sounds like controlled technology evolution to make 3D last a little longer before they let VR release
>>
i saw the same video OP saw. it is the dumbest yootoober shit i have ever heard. Here is a good debunk
https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/5ku5go/4_times_shigeru_miyamoto_was_an_asshole_larry/
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>>5425585
No, because the technology to do VR at a consumer level is only available now, so in the mid-90s there was no way they could have done it, whether they used the Argonaut designs or not.
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>>5425350
What a disgusting post.
>>5425619
>reddit
>good at debunking
Now this is a post worthy for how fun it is.
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>>5425619
Bundy is a faggot and reddit sucks, no one wins.
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>>5424684
>Nipnop can't innovate unlike the teutonic man
Gobineau proved this since 1800.
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>>5424874
Thats Yamauchi.
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>>5424893
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. So this guy thinks Nintendo stole from them because he made one of the first 3d platformers?
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>>5424778
Because they're all heavy smokers
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>>5426050
Reading comprehension is a bitch.
>>
itt:seething westcucks
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>it's another "youtuber reads something from wikipedia and everyone gets upset" retro game
oh boy i love the challenge is these!
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>>5424997
Isn't his daughter married to a westerner?
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>>5424896
How? Genuinely curious
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>>5428796
Maybe if you read the thread, anon. And what was told here is probably the tip of the iceberg anyway.
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>>5424684
Interesting that Nintendo treated Argonaut like shit but treated Rareware like kings.
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>>5428595
She is and he's kind of butthurt about it.
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>>5424997
>He's not Yuji Naka-tier, but he looks down on Westerners
If I were Naka, I'd think the same knowing what the Sonic "fandom" is like.
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>>5429562
>"Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good."

That's what Shigeru said, although after a brief shitstorm he later denied it; one can only suppose Nintendo was indeed secretly furious with them and how they were always a step above, on their hardware nonetheless. But still, they just couldn't kill Rare for good because of that sweet money they were doing with their titles, and probably because of some burocracy regarding their contract or whatever... All while Argonaut was a fish way smaller than them, albeit still valuable it wasn't that much of a loss in comparison.
>>
Shiggy has been known to throw chairs around the room in anger when game devs aren't doing a satisfactory enough job for his taste. When they were making Super Mario Sunshine, he told them the water wasn't realistic-looking enough and to go back and do it again.
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>>5429592
This is a bit ironic because supposedly this >>5429589 tirade was "taken out of context" and it was indeed referring to a time period when he was working to Yoshi's Island and was pressured by his superiors about DKC's sales and how his new game should look like the latter. This later led to the crayon drawings style.
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>>5429589
>That's what Shigeru said, although after a brief shitstorm he later denied it; one can only suppose Nintendo was indeed secretly furious with them and how they were always a step above, on their hardware nonetheless.
Rare really didn't get good until the SNES era, their NES efforts were mostly low budget cheese/shovelware and often contract games developed for other companies.
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>>5429589
>one can only suppose Nintendo was indeed secretly furious with them and how they were always a step above, on their hardware nonetheless.
Nintendo were usually always outmatched by third parties. Even in the NES era, their audiovisuals were always primitive (ie. programmer art and bleepy music) compared with Konami and Capcom games.
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>>5429635
It took them some time to fully escape that British home computer shovelware mentality.
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But yeah, Nintendo really don't like being taken to school by third parties which is why they hid N64 microcode information even though their own games didn't really even use it, which is why they emulate perfectly.
>>
This is the same guy who scrapped all of the work they had done on Super Mario Bros (which was a Defender-esque game at this point) as soon as he ran into Pac Land at the arcade, so he could make a game like that instead.
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>>5429589
Nintendo also had a bit of a grudge against Rare for the whole "Nintendo refused to give them an NES developer kit, so they fucking reverse-engineered an NES and forced their way into the console game market" thing.
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>>5429589
That's a false quote though.
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>>5429716
It's taken out of context, but it's actually a real quote.
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>>5429881
Where's the source?
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>>5424997
Yuji Naka literally moved to SF to make Sonic 2, how's he racist?
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>>5429713
>Nintendo also had a bit of a grudge against Rare for the whole "Nintendo refused to give them an NES developer kit
This was in 1986 or so. The NES had been introduced to Europe but apparently they had an imported Famicom they reverse-engineered. If anything, it would have probably been NOE who refused to give them a devkit, probably because Rare were a typical cottage British home computer game dev and Nintendo expected developers to have big bucks to be able to make quality games and not ZX Spectrum level of shit.

So they made some demos, flew to Japan, and managed to impress NOJ enough to get approved as a developer.
>>
>>5424684
Maybe Argonaut is shit dev? Japanese No. 1
>>
Shiggy is definitely a temperamental guy. Back in the early days, some NOA marketing guy said that SMB was too bizarre for American tastes and unsellable here and Shiggy told him "You are going to take this game and you're going to like it."
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>>5424997
how Naka, the man behind a western-japanese IP, is racist?
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>>5429589
>>"Donkey Kong Country proves that players will put up with mediocre gameplay as long as the art is good."
and he isn't wrong either, regardless if its a lie.
>>
Reminder that Shiggy was a NEET who lived in his parents' basement and that his dad was friends with Yamauchi and told him "Hey can you give my boy a job so we can get him out of our basement?"
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>>5430825
He also raped little girls.
I read it all on Steven L. Kent's book.
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>>5424893
Hello you
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>>5424691
Source? I kind of agree
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>>5429635
Confirmed that you never actually played any Rare game on the NES. Besides, you do realize you're comparing companies who developed most of their games on arcade systems to a company that was not even a decade old and started out on primitve home computers, right?

>>5429713
>>5429881
You're thinking of Electronic Arts and Sega and the reverse-engineering on the Sega Megadrive. The closest thing Rare did with Nintendo hardware that's comparable to it is their N64 games where they used specific microcodes, which was done with consent and cooperation from Nintendo and that was also the case for Factor 5's games on the N64.
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>>5430886
>Confirmed that you never actually played any Rare game on the NES.
Other than Battletoads all of their NES games were like 128k or less and they never really used mappers.
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>>5425585
Just sounds like it would have been too expensive for Nintendo's style, maybe Sega would have taken a bite.
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>>5429891
Google.
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>>5430680
Any trash looking game on mobile can be used to make the exact opposite point and the world of videogames will still be shit afterwards. Maybe good games are good because they succeed in many different areas thanks to synergies in the team's talents, but what do I know?
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>>5430680
Why did I expect this kind of post? /vr/ you're becoming very predictable with your shitposts...
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>>5429891
There is no source. Nobody has a screenshot of the alleged quote.
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>>5432645
actually it came from Steve Kent who interviewed Miyamoto years ago on G4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL83Ko0vYrw

pic related is the presumed and closest issue where the interview took place but nobody knows which one since most of this shit is lost
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>>5432914
This video is unavailable
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>>5432919
Google searching the dead link says it was this video
https://youtu.be/CGAbAxNcSoM
I guess it was reuploaded to another account
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>>5432561
>/vr/, you've become very predictable with your shitposts since a few years ...
FTFY
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>>5424893
>This is your brain on Sony pills.

Fuck off nigger, Croc was and is disgustingly primitve shit even for the 90's. How can they consider this "steal"? The final results shows how much different they were and I wouldn't be surprised if mario 64 was in the works long after Croc.
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>>5433013
Touché
>>5433029
I wish I could be this stupid, my life would be better.
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>>5424684
What concept?
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>>5434654
Read the thread.
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>>5424778
It's called getting old. Because the Japanese are known for their health, usually teeth are natural healthy, which means yellow.

Most old people use dendings or fake teeth, which are ofcourse almost always white. Not pearly white, cause they'd look like a horse. It has a natural shade and wear, so it would look normal.
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>>5424778
Their teeth are yellow (and often times crooked) because dental hygiene hasn't quite caught in in Japan the way it has in the west yet, or at least that's the case with older generations. Also what >>5426458 said.
>>5437473
>Natural healthy
I can already tell you're a dirty fuck.
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>>5424684
What are you talking about??? This is all news to me so please give me all the details.
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>>5424684
not as bad as carmack being a faggy hack who took credit for general programming concepts, even back then
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>>5424893
>Nes history is already questionable at best, SNES 3d history has been revealed, and now N64. . . . . . . .

What did he mean by this?
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>>5437498
Interesting.
>>5437876
Erh, take that shit with a grain of salt.
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>>5424891
I'm also confused about this. The shacknews article from here >>5424893
also states they used Star Fox 2 code in Star Fox 64, but I thought the instruction sets were different. If they used similar logic but different code then I don't really think that would be too big an issue. If they took ideas, then that's different, but from what I remember Croc controlled differently and was structured differently. I know it could have all changed from the prototype, but still.
>>5437807
What'd he do?
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>>5424684
Since you went there, might as well go all the way down the conspiracy rabbit hole and quote the french rumors too (by the website that leaked that zelda wii u would be open world and have 120 dungeons in 2014, so that might have some merit... some)

They said the gardening hobby that inspired him to do Pikmin was a PR feel-good sham, and alleged that Super Mario Galaxy was a tech demo by a FRENCH contracted developer (because of course!) a gravity platformer with planetoids that EAD, being the ever uninspired plagiarists they are but ones that hide it really well, bought it and used it without crediting the original team.

How embarrassing.

You could have mentioned the back and forth between NoA and NCL over Mario Paint 64 and the 64DD. You could have made a case that Nintendo owes reparations to the creators of Joust for ripping them off with Balloon Fight. You had to go and peddle a Larry Bundy video.

At that point, Nintendo passed over publishing Metal Warriors because it was too similar to Assault Suit Valken for their liking, despite the original developer for that jumping ship to Square (hardly their golden boy) to help them with their own ripoff for that, and Masaya embracing the ripoff lifestyle ripping off the SRPG part of Front Mission. They could have done that just fine but chose not to.

The "stolen" concepts for Argonaut's 3D first ever game released just fine, and some of their developers did get to work on Mario 64.

Trying to metoo' him much, resetera? Still salty about his Zelda BOTW comments?

>>5424997
If this is about Xtreme, by that time he was the only one snubbed in promotions over his uni degrees, others like Mark Cerny were thriving as VIP talent, and the Nights engine he coded was getting whored unbeknownst to him, much less with him on board and taking credit for what's possible due to his efforts, to a foreigner employee no less. Add to that SoJ/SoA undermining each other. No shit Sega's bitch snapped.
>>
The Virgin Jap fears the British Demoscene Chad
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>>5439168
>bought it and used it without crediting the original team.

>bought it
>used it without crediting the original team.

Does not compute, if they bought the demo then what credit do they need to give? If they stole it then you would have a point but if they actually had a ghost developer in contracted to make a tech demo and were paid to do it, a.k.a they did what they were asked to do and were compenstanted for their work as per the contract then there is no leg to stand on in an arguement that Nintendo did something underhanded.



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