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Why do retro games seem so much more interesting than the stuff today?
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You ever heard of the "soul/soulless" meme that goes around? It's basically that, however if you need an actual definition, "soul" is when good artists can create distinctive, impactful visuals and levels despite the restrictions primitive technology imposes. "Soulless", on the other hand, is born from technology being capable enough to not need any fancy or creative art, instead just throwing technology to compensate for unimaginative artists and art directions.
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>>5362124
That question is too vague, OP. What specifically do you see in retro games which you feel is lacking in modern one?
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>>5362150
big dick
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>>5362148
Precisely.
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>>5362210
Animal
ANTIIIIICS
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>>5362215
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>>5362220
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>>5362220
My roommate of some years ago and I 100%'d DKC2&3. It was the first time I'd seen any of the bonus content, and I just had no idea it existed until about 8 years ago. Wild.

He beat Animal Antics, not me. Still don't have that on my record. Someday, maybe.
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>>5362228
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>>5362148
Totally man! Every game now is just boring plain realism. No one anywhere tries at all and the whole industry is in freefall. It's only the super smart guys like you who see the whole scope of everything that understand!

Ohh wait... Sorry it's the opposite. Silly me :)
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>>5362227
It only takes me a few hours to 102% DKC2.
I like to occasionally spend an afternoon knocking the game out.
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I just watched AGDQ 2019 DKC race and was tripping out on how well done the over world backgrounds were and how they have a unique low-poly alsmost clay like aesthetic i'd like to see expanded on in some other games.
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>>5362124
Try it yourself:

It's easier to make 2D games vs 3D games.
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>>5362364
It's also far easier to make something of low fidelity look decent than it is something high fidelity. Even at that there were also a lot of super shitty looking retro games. People love cherry picking all over.
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>>5362124
No matter what anyone tells you, it's as simple as NO DLC, which meant the games were actually complete. Most people not having internet then also meant that you couldn't "patch it later", so games had to ship with minimal bugs (in theory). A lot of games now don't even do bug testing (I used to work in the industry in a non-development capacity, so I'm not making this up, you'd be surprised how many games are literally given a few regular playthroughs and no more without any actual proper bug testing whatsoever).
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>>5362379
You never had a PC did you? Lol.
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>>5362124
Because it was the early years of gaming, back when everything was new and not done to death.
Also games were usually made with the purpose of being games and not just story telling vessels/movies (and the few that were were at least still new at it).

>>5362148
This to an extent.
I feel it's more like something like the obsession with realism.
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>>5362236
>it's an "exceptions completely invalidate generalizations" episode
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>>5362208
These don't look bad, and they even fit the aesthetic of DKC. I don't prefer them to the SNES ones, but I'm sure there's some technical reason why they couldn't work for the GBA one, and these are a fine substitute.
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>>5362390
PC gaming wasn't shit until Doom showed up. At least in the West.
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>>5362236
that place doesn't look comfy it looks fucking dumb
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Way, way back I met one of the devs who worked on Street Fighter back in the day. I asked why they bothered making 3rd Strike when New Gen and 2nd Impact had flopped so bad, like, why even bother? And he said they just wanted to fix some things with how the game played and add characters. Basically they were allotted the budget they needed to make the best possible version of the game regardless of if it'd proven to be unsuccessful in the past. Now, I'm not as full of doom and gloom about the state of modern gaming as most of the posters on this board, but that to me is the biggest and most significant difference between then and now. The budget thing specifically, I believe there are plenty of creative minds who make great, interesting games.
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>>5362148
>You ever heard of the "soul/soulless" meme that goes around?
I wish hadn't.
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>>5362456
Well when the geberalzations you're making are wrong It's only natural.

>>5362463
PC gaming has always been awesome.

>>5362464
Lol
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>>5362461
>even fit the aesthetic of DKC.
Not really. They're more like banjo kazooie.
Dkc had largely realistic pre rendered backgrounds. The first especially.
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>>5362464
Both Ni no Kuni games are really comfy.
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>>5362515
>the exception disproves the generalization because the generalization is wrong

It's 11:27 P.M. Sunday, and you've managed to come from behind to win Worst Syllogism of the Week.
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>>5362124
Because you can't afford to play all the new stuff to find what's good, where as all the old stuff is free so you can play all of it to find the good.
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>>5362124
Because when you can't just throw money at it, you end up with more creative solutions. Art through adversity.
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>>5362540
It's not an exception, that's the whole point. It's okay, I'm not trying to change your mind I just think your attitude is from an alternate dimension.
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>>5362124
Game design is as much art as anything. Not just the visual arts (though that is critical), but the art of designing game mechanics, a captivating style of play that makes you want to repeat it, etc...
I think that today's dev tools were supposed to let "real artists" design games that only "boring tech people" could program before, but the opposite happened.
The dev tools allowed the field of game design to be filled with lazy, unimaginative jagoffs who can design games with a minimum of effort. The smart people are the engine designers, who are now creatively fire-walled from the "game artists".
It's no wonder it's all shit now.
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>>5362124
They don't, outside a very small gaming subculture. 99.99% of gamers don't care about retro, and never will.
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>>5362573
So then. What's good these days?
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>>5362582
...oh, you’re one of those people whose English is in the uncanny valley because you’re like, 80% fluent.
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>>5362608
>outside a very small gaming subculture. 99.99% of gamers don't care about retro
Yeah, that's why the NES mini sold out in a day.
And why even shit cartridges go for more than original retail on eBay.
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>>5362124
It's because of the "old = better" meme.
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>>5362614
I'm not saying the thing he said isn't stupid, but the thing you're saying sure isn't smart.
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>>5362682
yep, even my 11 year old cousin realizes this
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>>5362124
Beacuse back then, the genre was still young, thing were less set in stone and devs were not afraid to take risks to see where they can go with it. Do you imagine another Deus Ex, System Shock or Blood Omen in this day and age?

Also, tech wasn't there just yet. So devs had to be creative cutting corners and playing a lot of smoke and mirrors to get the wanted result.
Nowadays, it seems most games are done by one template.
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>>5362124
Modern games are designed to "appeal" to the largest number of markets possible, even the mutually exclusive ones. The problem is that you literally can't appeal to all those disparate groups, all you can do is make a game so bland that nobody can really pick out any specific thing to be offended by.
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Rare really became shit after DKC 2
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>>5362124
Because back then you didn't have hyper realistic graphics to mask your shit game.
Also loops back into that if a game was shit, it was shit. Nobody played it, and the game studios couldn't afford that because they would just go under.

Another thing you should realise is that most of the games were made by small studios of people who wanted to make games. You should look into indie games to find that soul again.
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>>5362614
No again. It's exactly as I said. Ni No Kuni isn't an exception, because the generalisation you're making is false to begin with. There is actually incredible diversity in both aesthetics and game design these days. It's just that there are some who come here know even less about modern games than old ones. Which really says something.
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>>5362124
Easy. They’re marketed to fans of the genres rather than to sell the most copies. When you go buy a game these days, you’re buying a pre packaged marketing experience with a side of gaming thrown in. You have all the share holders, all of the gaming journalists, and the game companies in bed with one another and so, you get a game laden with MTX and political crap no one asked for.

But, when you buy a retro game, you’re buying a relic of that time period in which it was made. That’s why you see people writing articles trying to say some retro games are “problematic” or too offensive, because at one time games were games and the creators and publishers weren’t tied to all the strings they are attatched to now.

When you buy retro, it’s buying a time capsule. You know how good it was, you remember when reviews from publications had to compete with each other and not for handouts for prepaid reviews from corporations. So, retro gaming is somewhat pure in that regard. People remember why and they don’t even know because when you retro game, you remember why gaming was great in the 1st place.
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>>5363156
You're hilarious /vr
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>>5363156
>>5363014
/thread
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>>5363086
There we go, I -knew- with some coaxing you could finally make the point you failed to make succinctly the first time.
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>>5362379
You clearly don't know much about the horrific shovelware that flooded the Atari 2600 some of which was broken and not completable.

>>5362450
I've discussed at length the many Euro C64 games that were just tech demos that vaguely resembled a game.
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The basic framework for gaming (PC gaming at least) was established early on. Some new genres like FPSes appeared over time as technology advanced, but the familiar CRPG, flight sim, turn based strategy game, and war sim were there by the early 80s.
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>>5363086
I don't care how good it looks, Night in the Woods blows as a game. It's barely a game. It's an interactive YA novel.
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>>5362124
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>>5363172
Sorry, I didn't think I had to spell it out so painstakingly for you. It's so obvious to me I didn't feel the inclination to put a lot of effort in. I don't care if any of you ever agree with me, the /vr butthurt over modern games is entertaining in itself, mocking is just icing on the cake for me.
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>>5362236
Pretty sure that's not what he was saying retard
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>>5362124
What's the point of putting effort into a game when you can shit a half-assed one and still sell millions?
Just look at FFXV, it looks pretty but was unfinished after ten years on development, and that didn't stopped it from being a big seller.
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>>5362124
People, mostly kids and those without critical thinking skills, like to assume it's because of nostalgia, yet fail to explain how I am able to play retro games I've never even seen before, and still find them massively enjoyable.

Back before the rise of tripleA games, companies were much smaller, and you had teams that quickly and easily communicated with each other, delivering a more cohesive experience. At most you would see a team of 50 people, maybe 60, and now those numbers have tripled, with proper management and coordination, leading to scattered design that end up getting streamlined to meld everything into a cohesive whole, genericizing it in order to reduce the total amount of direct oversight needed.

Some games manage to pull off a big studio effort, seemingly by chance, like for instance Arkham City. But then you get the gears of wars, the GTA 5's, the Halo reach's. Games that do well enough, but are forgotten and really don't care to revisit. It becomes more of Manufactured product that is more likely to not have people with a passion for, working on it. As you increase studio size beyond I would say 50, the cost effectiveness begins to drop off until it starts adversely affecting the game, like at around 100.
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>>5363407
Without proper management*
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>>5362124
>why do I have a bias for retro games instead of modern ones?
I don't know. Why don't you say it yourself? The only person who can explain your preference is yourself.
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Gaming as a big business was already a thing in the late 80s, the era of bedroom coders was a pre-1986 thing.
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it's always /v/ kiddies trying too hard to fit in who make these shitthreads
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>>5362461
The one that's really offensive to me is the K. Rool Keep.
Bare in mind, in the snes version, the themes of the levels were reflected in the overworld maps.
So you'd have caves and bare mountains in-between multiple castle buildings.

In the GBA version, it's all the same building, so it doesn't properly reflect that you're in a mine shaft or ice cave in-between dungeons.
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>>5363386
Yeah I was more mocking the whole attitude that goes hand in hand with it. He's saying art is more "soulful" when the artist doesn't have good tools to work with which is so wrong It's funny. To be fair he does note that it's just a meme but so many people here seem to genuinely believe it.
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>>5363452
Okay?
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>>5363553
He's right about more games relying more on technology to carry them than any time before.
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90% of games were shit then and 90% of games are shit now
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>>5363582
I agree, although in the 80s the lows were much lower than today. Look at Atari 2600 shovelware and contemplate that you had to pay $40 for this (more like $70 in 2019 dollars).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc0XDOUFOPI
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>>5362682
Appeal to history and appeal to novelty are both bad in their own way.
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>>5363579
Sure there's way better technology, but it's only helped make the artistry in and of games also better.
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Paradoxically, the bigger budget a game is, the better quality it will be, but at the same time its design will also be more conservative and less willing to take risks.
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>>5362124
I was actually just reading up on the making of Ocarina of Time, and I think the answer has a lot to do with the fact that gaming was a new frontier back in the '80s and '90s. Many developers looked at their objectives and decided to do things simply because they hadn't been done before, and it resulted in a more charming product that made you go "Huh, that's neat" at almost every turn.

Nowadays, most things HAVE been done, and in addition to that, it's become explicitly unprofitable to make games that are too unfamiliar to people. Developers often set out specifically with an idea in mind that panders to what people already expect, and simply try to delve deeper into those concepts instead of coming up with something new.

>>5362148
Additionally this, very much.
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>>5363596
The tools that game designers back then had to work with were extremely limited and crude. Graphics were laid out on graph paper and converted to hex values by hand. Code might be written on paper or assembled with a cross compiler on another machine.

By the early 90s, tools were getting better especially for graphics design which could now be done on a Mac/Amiga/workstation.
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>>5363582
People say this to defend their pretention that things haven't changed even though they have. At any point in time whether through examining individual years or decades by themselves, there has been a greater out-put of "hits" in certain spans of time than others. This is just a fact, whether it be through the philosophy of the time or mere coincidence.
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>>5363631
This. Also the argument that "it's just nostalgia" presupposes the discredited 'blank slate' theory of mind that there's no such thing as objective quality because it's possible to condition (all) human beings to love shit.
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>>5363296
And yet your innate desire to be heard, understood, validated has brought you here anyway!
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>>5362595
Good post, it explains why games went from "look what you can do" to "look what our artists can do".
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>>5363621
>Nowadays, most things HAVE been done, and in addition to that, it's become explicitly unprofitable to make games that are too unfamiliar to people.
I think you are completely and utterly wrong, both in your assumption that people only find things charming if they're new and interesting, and that most things have been done.

Exhibit A) Indie games repeat a lot of the same styles and mechanics from decades ago and have sold millions and been critically and socially lauded for their excellence in design, balance, and overall ability to idealize a style.

Exhibit B) We have games that continue to push what can be done with gaming. The recent Battle Royale trend is new and innovative. It share similarities with things from the past, as everything from the 90's did from the 80's and the 80's from the 70's.

The recent explosion in VR interest is more different than anything introduced by previous VR attempts, allowing full 3D virtual space realization and interaction. The DS experimented with numerous gameplay functions. There continues to be innovation, but there is a significant lack of games that capitalize in said innovation.
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>>5363643
The game industry has gone backwards
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>>5363669
Well yes that's what I meant by backwards.
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>>5362612

Not him but I've had just as much fun, if not more, playing games like Celeste, Cuphead, Super Meat Boy, Rocksmith 2014, Shantae and the Pirates Curse, Wipeout Omega, and Hollow Knight to name a few. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
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>>5362612
Mostly indie games. The last time I recall being blown away by a triple A game in terms of how much fun I was having and how invested I was, was Alien Isolation, which was 5 years ago.
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5th gen should be banned. Garbage like half life should be not discussed.
Fucking soulless compared to doom.
The same applies to other 5th gen shit games like thief, system shock 2 and deus ex, oot, mgs, starcraft, banjo, spyro, crash,mario 64, tomb raider.
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>>5363394
It was also good despite what /v/-tards will tell you.
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It's the same reason why Bernini and Michelangelo hold the imagination while digitally-modeled and mechanically-produced sculptures of today carry no weight in your conscience.
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>>5363696
>t. Sonic poster
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>>5363696
How do you talk to anyone with a mouth that full of shit?
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>>5363696
Good idea. While we're at it, let's ban discussion on all generations except for the first one so we only have to discuss matters about the First Magnavox Odyssey. Back in my day we were fine spending our money on arcades because games used to be real and not about all that content nonsense and those fancy graphics and sounds. How DARE anyone call himself a serious retro gamer if he can't only appreciate what is over 4 decades old at this point? Let's make this board and retro gaming in general great again!
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>>5362465
Agree. The budget thing is important, and also companies being smaller.
Talking about Capcom, you can see how in the 80s and 90s they did a lot of different kind of games: shoot 'em ups, beat 'em ups, puzzles, quiz games, racers, strategy games, RPGs, etc. And some of those games were developed by people who also made blockbusters like Street Fighter or Mega man. Heck, even Shinji Mikami did Disney games back then.

That is very difficult to see nowadays, because they spend all the money in a couple of big IPs and then have some of the smaller games being developed or codeveloped by external companies

I believe that era when people who, for example, liked fighting games had to develop platfformers or sports games was good for the creativity of game designers and for the industry in general.
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>>5362124
Graphics being more realistic can end up feeling boring, and a lot of newer games try to use cinematic gameplay which isn't really fun either.
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>>5362124
I think the hardware limitations forced them to be more creative
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>>5362575
YES
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>>5362150
soul
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>>5362236
hehe.. youre silly
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>>5362456

Exceptions DO invalidate generalizations.
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It's because we're old and we're from an era when gaming was for a select group of people, we were part of that group because we were attracted to gaming back then.

Gaming has more than tripled and is going to quadruple in player base in the coming decade, we're simply the minority now in our own form of entertainment and so listening to us fully is no longer profitable.

Gaming is about other things nowadays, it's more realistic and more of a simulation, we're simply not the target audience for these newer games.
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>>5362124
Because we have hindsight to see the best works.
I love retro but people can still make good games its just looking at whats new isnt at all the same as looking at retro classics. Soul never changed, Bubsy games from the 90s are just as notable as Bubsy games of today
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Ni no Kuni is the boringest trash I've ever played but then again you can't expect anything else from a weebshit jarpig.
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>>5363640
Comedy is fun, what can I say?
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>>5362124
because they are.
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>>5363156
YESSIR
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>>5363648
Is that backwards?
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Why do I see so many people perpetuating the "realism" myth in modern games?

Modern games don't give a shit about realism. Go look at a CoD trailer, it has women and black people in front line western Europe during WW2. I'm not even knocking the lack of realism, this proves they do not give two shits about about.

Compare this to the 2 billion "super hyper realistic" flight simulators meant to be played on a joystick "just like a real pilot!" cranked out during the 90s. About all you can find today would be something like DCS, a game where you gotta pay $2000 for the complete experience (not an exaggeration). If modern gaming was about realism, realistic games wouldn't have extreme minority playerbases that have to pay high costs to make it worth the dev's while.
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>>5364586
You autist, they're talking about photorealistic graphics, not the games themselves being 100% true-to-life simulations of reality.
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>>5362124
Modern games have a terminal soul deficiency.
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>>5364603

No they aren't, modern games aren't even trying to attain photorealistic graphics either. That's been completely dead since Crysis, which no wasn't a photorealistic game either.

You idiots are the autists, claiming shit that isn't true when the era you are idolizing put realism above gameplay.

I'm not seeing any prerendered backgrounds in modern games, are you?
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>>5364236
do you not understand what a generalization is?
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>>5364656

Yes I do. If a generalization can't account for outliers then the outliers are probably proof negative of the generalization.
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>>5364708
How stupid are you?
Definition: A principle, statement, or idea having general application.
Do you not know what general means?
Here is the definition:
Affecting or characteristic of the majority of those involved; prevalent:

If there are outliers, that does not affect a generalization unless the outliers are in the majority.
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>>5364720

Not true, outliers exist because the chosen generalization is invalid.

Remember, you are choosing to argue because >>5362148 here got debunked because he's claiming some fuzzy bullshit about soul. It's generalizations upon generalizations, stacked several times high. But then >>5362236 can come in and find a game he likes that doesn't conform in the slightest. If there's any crime that jRPG has made, retro has made it just the same. And what's more that's not the only jRPG made since retro times.

In terms of argumentation the outlier is a much stronger statement than the generalization in this case. In reality, generalizations that manage to overcome outliers bother to mention outliers because they aren't relying on stupid justifications like "soul" to exist in the first place and by that point might not even qualify as generalizations anymore.

Most generalizations ARE debunked by outliers.
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>>5362124
Because you handpick the games which were good and don't play the mountains of worthless garbage which was forgotten by time.
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>>5364616
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>>5364743
i love every dos game from 1991 to 1995
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>>5362124
No DLC meant the games were actually finished. It's as simple as that.
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>>5364750
>the games were actually finished
>daggerfall made ppl download a big ass patch from a long distance number on a 14.4k modem

but yes generally games in the early 90s where finished before they hit store shelves
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>>5364750

There are games without DLC, you know. I do hate it when virtually all of my games try to nickle and dime me over some exclusive character, though.

I lol'd when Tira was going to be separate day-one DLC to the season pass in Soul Calibur 6 and Namco had to retreat, adding her to the season pass because even casual fans weren't having that shit.
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>>5364750
>the games were actually finished.
Ironic you post this in reply to a post which pictures the ice cavern from OoT.
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>>5364761

Can we recognize a difference between DLC and expansions? I'd argue there's a difference.
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>>5364768
>No DLC
>what about ultima 7?

sorry deleted to add pic, i think dlc was originally just like expansion packs, it's only recently that you get stuff like adding new classes etc. via dlc that people start to feel ripped off, to me they're almost the same
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>>5364768
oh you know what was a cheap dlc ripoff was whatever the last doom was that you had to buy the fucking expansion/dlc in order to get double jump whatever in multiplayer, that was so wack, luckily they got combined into one package on steam at some point, but anyone who bought near the release got soaked
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>>5364749
Sure.
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>>5364819
dos had less shitty crap than consoles in that era, and it was almost entirely rpgs, with a few sierra style adventure games
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>>5364228
I really liked pulling on his hands with the power bracelet. It just looked so cool, and really emphasised his size, like he's a genuine immovable object.
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>>5364741
a generalization states that something is 'generally' the case, but there can be exceptions. someone posted an exception and you're saying that exception nullifies the generalization, when it is already implied in a generalization there will be exceptions to the case.

if he was making a claim that everything in a scenario was a case, it wouldn't qualify as a generalization anymore.
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>>5362124
Much more narrow focus and scope, making for a tight concise experience.
Understanding of strengths and weaknesses of the medium, and working on bringing out strength while masking the weakness.

Most modern developers try to copy things that worked before, without understanding on WHY they have worked, and if they are going to work in the new game - this is a problem of not only "retro-inspired" games, but also all major AAA developers that are content with copying stuff that worked before which quickly becomes repetitive unimaginative trite
Also - trying to appeal to all and everyone, in the end appealing to no one.
Loosing focus and building a game without cornerstone.
Cornerstone of SMB and Sonic - platforming challenges with tight controls and physics. For Metroid - exploration and atmosphere, etc.
Especially noticable in "open world" games, that are spreading themselves thin, and then spreading themselves thinner again. For the first few games in AssCreed series there was a focus on assassinaion , but then... What's the focus of Odissey? Nothing and everything. There's too much stuff piled up in hopes that at least some of it appeals to someone, without realising that even if it does happen, the rest of the game would be unappealing for such player, meaning most of it won't.
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>>5364605
So in this case, you like patterns more than finished graphics, to stimulate mental recognition and creativity rather than portray an actual field?
I could imagine preferring that too, on psychedelics or as a child.
But as a relatively sober adult I'd rather not deal with fairly meaningless patterns that delegate the work of finishing the game's presentation to the player's imagination.
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>>5364993
>mental recognition
*pattern recognition
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>>5364836
lol
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>>5364993
well an argument could be made that the pattern shows the room has some kind of significance, which it does, compared to the bottom one which just kind of makes it feel like other places in the area.
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>>5362124
from my point of view it's the stuff today that's much more interesting.
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>>5365180
And clearly on the wrong board, then.
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>>5364934
It's on you to prove what you claim is actually a generalization though. Because in this case I don't agree with you in the slightest.

>>5365190
Anyone who really likes games will find things both new and old that they like.
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>>5365180
Stuff after 2000 is pure trash
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>>5362124
Define interesting since OoT pretty much paved the way for all the stuff we're getting today, with all the misdirection and shifting away from game to experience.
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>>5365180
The word you're looking for is flashy.
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>>5365180
most of the good anime I've watched in the last 2 years were from before 2000
current anime is CGI, sterile MMORPG garbage
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>>5365180
I wouldn't say that, but there's a lot of fucking garbage that nobody remembers.
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>>5365203
>it's ont to you to prove what you claim is actually a generalization
actually it's not, because I'm not the original guy who posted this
>>5362148
>>5362456

I'm just telling you, if someone claims something is a generalization, then someone says "nuh uh, what about this thing right here!!!", that doesn't contradict what he says because it's in the nature of the word, 'generalization'.

you missed this point. you are wrong.

if you want to argue whether that generalization in fact exists, that is a whole different argument, but we're arguing here on whether 'outliers' negate generalizations, which they do not.
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>>5364774
back then expansions weren't made (or even planned) before launch day of the main game, nowadays games are being made with the objective of selling DLC in mind, heck, usually DLC is announced before the game is even playable.
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>>5364993
I just think it looks more mysterious and cool and unique and magical.
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>>5365813
Well that's not exactly a useful description. It's like saying it's cool because it doesn't make sense and you don't understand it.
Anyone can make something that is hard to understand, just neglect to give it finished detail and paint some placeholder shit in there to identify it.
What really matters is that it also has to look good, and stimulate the viewer's imagination to finish it off. Patterns may work well for that.

And any sense of scepticism would just ruin the whole thing. Because, you know, it looks like unfinished placeholder art. Once you're not caught up in the emotions of wonder it ends up kind of shitty.
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>>5365534
>actually it's not, because I'm not the original guy who posted this

Be that as it may, the generalisation isn't accurate in the first place.
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>>5362124
because the stuff today spends way too much of its energy being all cinematic and 'experiential' rather than on the game mechanics or actual content of the story.
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>>5365786
the best dlc ever was when titan quest got a huge expansion like ten fucking years after release
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>>5365362
DESU this is precicely the reason I don't like it.
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>>5366853
It's a pretty weak complaint towards oot itself. You can't shit on a game for people copying it.
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>>5365897
What a cynical and jaded view you have.
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>>5366942
Well yeah. Once you lose the magic it's hard to get it back. Now I want to understand what made it magical in the first place, and just leaving at "soul" isn't good enough.
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>>5366853
I'm not shitting on it just because people copied it, I didn't like it when it itself did those things.
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>>5367241
what things?
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>>5362461
The GBA was a problem for people who wanted to make good graphics.
First gen was a transflective screen so brightness and colour was highly dependant on the lighting conditions you were playing it under. And if your boss said "TOO DARK!" when played under the dull office fluorescents you messed with the gamma of the palette until he stopped bitching, dynamic range be damned.
Then the GBA SP gave you a total horseshit blue as fuck front light which killed contrast. So then devs started blowing the colour palette right out to suit that.
When you finally got a halfway decent backlit GBA it was too late. Games had largely been butchered for the previous models and now you were stuck with their permanently baked in stupidity.
I imagine the DKC ones were redone because "TOO DARK111!" and didn't fit the 256x160 display properly. But they were redone by people with no talent. The story behind every mobile port.
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>>5368589
240x160, rather. Easy to remember because it's 3:2.
But yeah, GBA's palettes were butchered to high hell.
I'm kind of glad there's romhacks to undo it in some of the ports. But that's only one of the many problems ports tended to have, and nowadays it would be more ideal just to backport all new content where possible for all relevant games.
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>>5368589
It's funny because it was almost unplayably dark at the time, I remember a professor looking over my shoulder and asking how I could see anything. But god damn now with better screens Circle of the Moon is the best looking of those three Castlevanias and probably my favorite of all the metroid style ones.
>>
Some newer games a pretty cool
>>
Hardware was more limited, so developers had to cut and rework things to make the game possible, but also more diverse, so games had unique graphics and sound styles depending on the console. Now consoles are fast enough and have enough storage that devs can reproduce whatever 3D models and prerecorded audio they want. They don't have to make hard choices anymore because games can be 50 GB and use 8 GB RAM. Just having to think more about what's going into the game leads to proposing and comparing more level designs, character designs, 2D vs 3D, synthesized vs recorded music, FMV vs in-game models, etc. When you read about how games were developed and look at concept art, there are a lot of indications that things could have turned out very differently. Another thing that made retro games better is that developers had big ideas even though there was not enough hardware, but now it's the other way around. Some of the things that were intended for Zelda 64 have never showed up in any game. The "wow factor" today is mostly about graphics and movies instead of gameplay and interacting with the environment.

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-The-Legend-of-Zelda-Ocarina-of-Time-3D/Vol-2-Original-Development-Staff-Part-1/5-What-We-Couldn-t-Do-with-Ocarina-of-Time/5-What-We-Couldn-t-Do-with-Ocarina-of-Time-231818.html

Another problem is that companies focus more on making a quick buck, even if it means losing customers and pissing off your core audience. DLC, "physical" games that are just codes on paper, shipping broken games, no manuals, 50 GB patches, paid online for consoles, always online requirements, installing games because discs are too slow, long loading times, "pay to win" in paid games, and lootboxes are not features players want. I don't know if it's just that fast Internet allows companies to rip off gamers more, a bigger audience that doesn't care as much, or what, but the quality of everything is a lot worse than it was in the 90s.
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>>5362236
>>5364741
I'm the guy who made the soul/soulless comparison. You completely ignored what I was implying, and assumed I meant all modern games are soulless. I was specifically referring to using advanced shader effects or lighting or shiny models to make a game look visually superior, but the underlying art is really dull. To put it in a modern gaming perspective, compare Ni no Kuni 2 to God of War. NNK2 has a distinct visual style while GoW looks like any other western game that's all about muh grafix.
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>>5369727
In general I'd agree. But not entirely.
>installing games because discs are too slow
That is something I did all the time. Hell, it's actually STANDARD on PC. For a good reason. I don't understand why anyone would actually want to load from external optical discs when there's a large enough drive to store things. That's just so much slower, and easily feeds into that "long loading times" complaint.
Sadly many games still require the disc to be in to play them. But noCD patches and disc image mounters/loaders solve that in most cases.
>50GB patches
I don't see anything inherently wrong with that either. Sometimes giant patches include a ton of new content, or valuable features like alternative language audio. It could be optimized down, sure. But it really doesn't matter that much.
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>>5362148
That, plus gameplay/controls being dictated by what's popular and what sells to the point that no company tries to make a game that feels different from other games.

That, and stories in games have become identical to typical Hollywood movie plots, and Hollywood itself has been out of ideas for almost 2 decades. Publishers are afraid to let devs be cheesy, everything has to be serious and made of every overdone trope in the book.
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>>5362236
Ni No Kuni has a lot of visual soul and is a rare exception, but the gameplay is so fucking dumbed down that the game itself becomes totally soulless. The entire game is literally "go to spot x marked on your map, now walk back to the original spot on your map, now walk to spot y on your map....etc." I used literally correctly here, almost every quest in this game is this mind numbing shit.
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>>5362124
simplicity in graphics to a certain degree. those simpler graphics are more appealing than overly convoluted eye candy that bears no substance in other areas/layers of a game. the other factor is that more money and time went into gameplay and fleshing out the narrative rather than QTE garbage, scripted event meme shit that takes player's agency and control away for the sake of "cinematic experiences" and which relates to the following: nowadays games being more movie than game (looking at you Witcher 2, you disgustingly short piece of dogshit that gave me buyer's remorse as well as FF10 which had horrible pacing and went for the cinematic meme yet again).
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>>5369809
>I don't see anything inherently wrong with that either.
try downloading such a patch with a common dsl-connnection.
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>>5370647
Why would you not have at least cable internet in 2019?
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>>5370774
2mbit is considered broadband.
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>>5370791
Yeah okay, but cable internet in my area isn't even offered below 50Mbps any more, before that the lowest cable internet was 25Mbps for years. Why would you get DSL in 2019? It's utter shit.
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Blue pill
>newer=better
Red pill
>older=better
Onions pill
>good media is still being produced
black pill
>devs and artists were not more talented back then, the world was a more wholesome place overall and the older technology despite its crudeness is closer to how our human psyche processes things compared to FFXV graphics and high resolution cameras
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>>5370647
How would you play modern games of that size with an internet connection incapable of acquiring them?
Well, whatever. Just leave it up until it downloads completely and hope the service supports resume for when your shit internet disconnects.
Even at an absurdly low 10kB/s it would only take 2 months. 100kB/s would take 6 days, that's under a week. And with 1mB/s, which is much more common, under a day.
I doubt most such games as a whole are completely unplayable without such patches anyway. Having a patch of that size is probably better than no patch at all, but it's likely not required.
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>>5367196
>Once you lose the magic

You don't lose it, you choose to leave it.
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Are the rainbow stairs in N64 Major'as Mask the ultimate example of SOUL in a game?

>trudging through the dank sewers, near your goal after completing your first quest chain
>all of a sudden see inexplicable rainbow stairs at the end of a tunnel
>climb up, hit by the sharp contrasting wonderment of Astral Observatory's visuals and music for the first time, perfect sendoff for the first timeloop
changing them to dull brown ordinary stairs just kills all of that that, probably because some moron dev on the remake was thinking "lol but y are they rainow tho?"
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>>5362124
AAA Developers used to be allowed to take Risks.
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>>5365813
Yeah like some space room. I dont know. It looks super mystical.
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>>5365206
nice worthless post
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They don't, I played in the 90s, had a Sega master system, ps1, dreamcast n64,friends had snes, nes, game boy,,, your living in nostalgia some has aged, well some was awful not that I look at them
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>>5362124
Because you were a child and your sense of wonder and novelty wasn't nearly as jaded as it is today.
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>>5371257
I never played the remake so I'm kinda upset about them removing that.
maybe they tried implementing new textures and the rainbow variant didn't look good at all? I have no idea but it pisses on the game for sure.



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