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I DARE you to name a battle system shittier and more pointless than this fucking vomit
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FF8's battle system
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Your mom's battle system
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>>5203359
Can't think of any, the whole thing is useless.
The field effects? Entirely useless. Doesn't give a potent enough bonus when set up and limiting summons to 3/3 means it's never gonna be available when you need it (because if you have the time to set it up with whatever element you are winning anyway).
All the spells and traps and potential tactical options? Entirely useless as well. You'll never do more damage than just attacking and there isn't really enough reason to bother. You are gonna just win by punching shit with melee attacks no matter what. Maybe a heal once in a while.

They tried but the whole thing is just pointless. There's nothing I hate more than having a bunch of systems that you'll never use because everything dies to mashing a button and occasional heals.
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>>5203529
I disagree, with limited spells charges the field effects help quite a bit.
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>>5203538
But if your charges are limited unless the enemy is setting the element you want, the field is gonna be 2/3 at best unless you plan for it...which isn't particularly rewarding because you usually can just melee things saying yourself navigation time.
The thing is that there's not really a huge incentive for it, except a couple battles you just win by default as long as you don't neglect healing.
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>>5203359
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>>5203545
that and Knights of Xentar
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>>5203359
That game is garbage, but its no Quest 64.
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>>5203564
Terrific... I also own Knights of Xentar. I never bothered firing it up yet, at least I know what I'm getting into if/when I do.
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>>5203564
>Knights of Xentar
Seconding this. Still the only H game I ever played through though.
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>>5203359
Basically every JRPG battle system is shit. They're all just glorified calculators in the end. The better ones that the ones that don't try to tag on clunky and awkward mechanics just for the sake of being different.
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>>5203714
Every RPG is a glorified calculator, retard. That's the base element of Dungeons & Dragons.
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>>5203719
Tabletop D&D and D&D games usually have tactical battles. It's not just exchanging attacks with enemies, there's a lot of room for strategic choices.

And if you're going to expand the thread to all RPGs, then there are plenty of tactical and action RPGs that aren't just glorified calculators. Obviously there are calculations involved, but ultimately those kind of battles have a lot of factors to consider that are difficult to quantify. Some games are more successful at that than others.

And there's nothing wrong with being a glorified calculator. It's just boring when they try to be different by adding retarded systems on top of that to try to make it seem deep. Most of the time it just drags battles out without actually making them more difficult or skillful.
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big bang age
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>>5203368
fpbp

/thread
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>>5203359
That's a skimpy outfit for such a young girl.
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>>5203529
>There's nothing I hate more than having a bunch of systems that you'll never use because everything dies to mashing a button and occasional heals.
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>>5203359
Xenosaga 2.
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Ultima VII. You have no control whatsoever and your party tends to make terrible choices for weapons and movement.
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Now a change of pace, what retro games had the best battle systems? Please respond
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>>5203359
What game?
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>>5204130
None. Maybe some Tactics game and even that is simplistic once you figure out how to cheese the cpu.
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>>5203569
Knights of xentar is purely for the porno though
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>>5204397
Now you have my attention.
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>>5203529
t.guy who used a guide to beat miguel
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>>5204130
Saga frontier is my favorite battle system.

The monster and robot mechanics makes for a great change of pace from humans

Mystics i have yet to decide but they seem boring.

Ff5's battle system is ofc kino. Also ff tactics when you are patient.
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>>5204397
and the gag-translation
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>>5204440
DK3 was never a serious game.
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>>5203359
>name a battle system shittier and more pointless
Earthbound had some 2 dimensional combat.
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>>5204448
Two dimensions doesn't make it bad, it executes what it does very well, much better than many other simplistic battle systems. It's actually quite a good battle system.
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>>5204130
Suikoden 1-2
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>>5204130
Earthbound
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>>5204130
Shin Megami Tensei
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>>5204130
Xenogears
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>>5203368

This.The very worst rpg battle systems are all non-vr Idea Factory/Compile Heart games though.
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>>5203368
b-b-but anon FF8 is the thinking man's RPG! /vr/ told me so!
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>>5204548
SMT battlesystem doesn't become *great* until PS2 era though
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>>5203359
Hi
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>>5204403
Nah, died a couple times to him and figured his shtick, it's not that hard, man. If anything he's the exception that confirms the rule, because that fight stands out for being more elaborate than the rest....and then back to killing everything else with the same 3 actions until the final rounds.
Makes you think it's finally picking up, to go back to lazy encounters until a couple fights at the end.
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>>5203368
How is FF8's battle system bad?

You can set it up as a standard Final Fantasy. You can just auto-junction everything and not have to worry about it.
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>>5204659
Its bad from perspective of wanting a challenge and needing to optimize to win. The fact is you can beat ff8 easily without knowing a goddamn thing. Thats what i did.

When i learned the system, it really is a great system. Drawing magic is a pain, but the system is flexible, interesting, and fun. The card game complements it beautifully as well.

So yea. I consider Ff8 a great sandbox, but its definitely underwhelming as a game in many ways.
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>>5204659
The balancing around the Junction system and level scaling can be iffy.
The whole Draw command wasn't that much fun.
You don't ever want to use magic since it will drain your Junctions.
Summons that take a full minute to watch.
No character roles.
Keeping characters near death so they can Limit Break each round is pretty much as fun as it gets.

still better than every other FF battle system
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>>5204130
Best
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>>5203368
Not even close kid. FF8 is true patrician, especially for no magic junction runs with spellweaving. I understand that brainlets such as yourself are not capable of understanding the concept of refining magic and junctioning stats though. Babby just want to hold down x n attack but babby can't versus Malboro :(
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Not sure how you can get worse than literal slot machine combat.
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>>5204651
so what you're saying is you died in chrono cross? were you at least like 10 years old or are you just terrible at everything in life
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>>5204917
Your tears are delicious, Squallnigger.
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>>5204715
the virgin draw vs the chad REFINE
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>>5204130
Panzer Dragoon Saga
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>>5204996
Most fail at games but pretend they are hot shit on the internet. Don't believe the claims of hardcore gaymers.
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>>5204917

You know, I always think this guy is kidding, that he just spams FF8 threads to bother /vr/. But posts like these show that this neckbeard is serious. This is almost as bad as the overrated games guy.
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>>5203529
>All the spells and traps and potential tactical options? Entirely useless as well.

Imbecile and Genius were gamebreakingly powerful, and basically trivialized everything.
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>>5204130
I liked the battles in Tales of Destiny. Still have to play Tales of Eternia
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>>5204996
I was 12 but I don't think it's unusual to die there, it's the highest difficulty spike in all the game.

>>5205079
Nah man I'm only good at arcade shit and RPGs and suck at everything else. Specially roguelikes, those kick my ass so bad and I never get cool loot.

>>5205173
I remember Eternia played pretty well when you obtained some item that allowed a "Manual" combat setting. I don't think it was very far in the game, though.
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>>5204536
Suikoden 1 and 2's battle systems were pretty boring, but Suikoden 3's is really good. It's a shame they didn't refine it for future titles.
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>>5204609
One of the best, if not the best, of all time.
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>>5205185
Play Shiren (or any Mystery Dungeon) it's roguelite for dummies.
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I tried hard and I really wanted to like it, but I just could not figure out Unlimited SaGa.
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>>5204130
Fallout
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>>5203359
Toss up between Xenogears and Legend of Dragoon. LoD's attacks are fun to pull off the first few dozen times, but the fight design (boss patterns, AI etc.) is pure cancer, resulting in long, awkward fights.

Xenogears is just use-your-strongest-deathblow spam, which don't involve difficulty in pulling off whatsoever and serves no other purpose but to add some more button presses to attack

dragoons/gears in both games are shockingly dull as well in function, despite both looking really cool
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>>5203359
Chrono Trigger

>lets make a battle system highly reliant on positioning
>but only allow the enemies to freely move about
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>>5204130
FFV
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>>5203529
You're fucking dumb.
Here's how you use field effects in CC:
1) Everyone attacks and fills their magic up
2) Enemy takes a turn
3) next turn, everyone uses a low level element to set the field
4) Because you only used a low level spell, your 3 characters immediately get their turns again, and can cast up to level 6 spells with the field in your favor.
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>>5203359
Tales of Symphonia. Even the most basic ass monsters have bloated HP making encounters drag on for no real reason. The controls are awkward and not being able to freely move around sucks.
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>>5205090
Okay? I might be a neckbeard who weighs 789 lbs or I might be a neckbeard who weighs 420 lbs l. Which is it?
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>>5205090
Also, I do not have a single active ff8 thread in the catalog right now, but I will knock ur fucking teeth our with my double/triple spellweaving if you push me too far.
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>>5204950
What's wrong with slot machine combat?
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Legend of Legaia. Garbage.
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>>5205394
>interesting puzzle based on limited slots and interlocking combinations that result in different attack combos
>solid rpg fundamentals with economics that actually matter
>large amount of optional grinding content in the form of spells that can also be safely ignored if you just grab a few essentials
>tons of secrets hidden across the world and in the dungeons that actually have a big impact and how difficult the combat is
>story bosses that are actually hard and make you take them seriously

legend of legaia is honestly a 10/10 for me, it's a good game, it's really hot as hell
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>>5203359
FF13
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>>5204130
Valkyrie Profile
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>>5204404
>>5204130
agree with SF1, sparking+combos+cool magic+races=addicting system
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>>5204809
Now we talkin'.
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>>5204536
Nice party, that was my crew going into the last couple of battles. Is there a way to hook up with Ellie?
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>>5205349
You aren't getting it. The point is that there's no point. Notice I said "if you are setting it up you are already winning".
You don't need it like ever. Only for the time you need to use the CC and follow the sequences, that one fight where you actually need to "unset" it, or just to see the stupid summons, as every rpg-playing kid of that era did.

Case in point, I found a FFV hack, Void Divergence, that implements a system inspired on it, and in there, it happens to actually work. It actually feels rewarding to set up the field and fire a large blast with summons that were adapted to gain a larger bonus from it, or to get a big heal or increase status effect chances. Elemental damage is actually worth using over just melee.

>>5205336
This one always kinda burned. All that area checking and stuff and it's only useful for a few regular battles and I think one or two bosses.

>>5205268
Well they don't kick my ass that much. I just persevere until I eventually win.
You aren't wrong tho, Shiren is pretty fun, and the pokemon/chocobo dungeon ones. Stuff like Fatal Labyrinth is fairly fun too even if they have the technical finesse of "not really much technical finesse, this is pretty barebones, but kindasorta works".

Nethack took me a pretty long time to win, that final map is just enemy spam. Kinda same with Angband and derivatives at high level. So many summoner enemy types made things a bit tedious.
Not retro but One Way Heroics+ (the indie one, not the chunsoft remake abomination with the useless companions) is damn great in terms of simple stuff, and Caves of Qud is pretty promising.

>>5205412
I skipped Legaia back in the day and only seen a few LPs of it, the system seems kind of interesting. You think it's worth a shot nowadays? How is it in terms of difficulty?

>>5205595
SF1 feels so "not really complete" but damn, what is there is pretty good.
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>>5205523
This is the correct answer.
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>>5204404
>When you fight this guy for the first time
God this game is so good
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>>5205523
May have been simple but at least it was fun
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>>5204609
Me too i liked more the combat system of PS2 titles, but it was pretty good and original since the beginning, getting polished at each new entry.
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>>5204950
I liked that battle system, it was smooth and you had to think quickly. I agree that the OMD was pretty annoying on the long run, because you see it a lot and that's the problem.
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>>5203568
came here to say this
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>>5204627
But that is actually useful. If you miss, the combo ends dealing less damage. Plus, throughout the game, you get longer ones that are more difficult but more rewarding.
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>>5203594
Fix that with some Kichikuou Rance
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>>5204950
>Not sure how you can get worse than literal slot machine combat.
That was only one aspect of the battle system, in Unlimited Saga it's a totally different beast.
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>>5205412
nah, shit sux. the battle systems pressing the attack button 5-6 times per character just to attack. its fucking stupid.
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>>5209069
This was the worst I've played, too. I've heard that the weapon customization is extremely intricate, but everything about the game turns me off too much to have really gotten into it.
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>>5205523
Literally finished this game an hour ago. What a fucking mess of a combat system, what idiot decided that it was a good system, especially having a bullshit game over if your character died.
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>>5204950
I really hate this game on every level. Hate the combat system, hate the story, hate the graphics. Exactly zero of the appeal that FF7 had.
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>>5204130
Gotta agree with the SaGa games in general, even the worst ones like RS1 and SaGa 3 are still a lot more interesting than the average game, and the best ones are far ahead of the competition.
There's a few other battle systems that are well worth mentioning for their efforts and originality though.
Dark Law is mechanically pretty interesting, though it suffers a bit from having samey battles for most of the game, actually the game is mechanically interesting all around, albeit far too short to truly shine.
Gunparade march is another game that tries to spice up things in a very original way by making you combine basic command lines in order to form more complex action chains, very interesting and a must play if you're into mecha and route heavy RPGs.
BoFIV is another solid game when it comes to combat systems, good integration of many common mechanics of the time with something very nice of its own, like spell combo mechanics and functional back rows, simple and clean, only problem is that there's hardly ever a challenge.
Koudelka's another game with a fairly interesting system and a somewhat SaGa-ish character building system, another short game well worth playing for its unique atmosphere, being the precursor of Shadow Hearts is also a plus for the fan of that series.
Wild Card on the Wonderswan Colour is another interesting experiment in terms of creating a card based RPG, pretty simplistic for its time but also very unusual and with quite a few nice ideas.
Front Mission 2 is also something well worth mentioning when it comes to SRPGs.
>>5209069
CC has an actual Slot Machine with RNG, Unlimited's battle reel has no RNG, it's a command select hidden in a rhythm minigame.
Unlimited's battle system is excellent and one of the most versatile and advanced in its category to this day, unfortunately, a lot of people love to talk about things they know nothing about and keep on spreading misinformation, a shame, it doesn't deserve any of the hate it gets.
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>>5206441
>I skipped Legaia back in the day and only seen a few LPs of it, the system seems kind of interesting. You think it's worth a shot nowadays? How is it in terms of difficulty?
If you have a lot of time to kill it's fine. It's definitely hard enough in the sense that you'll start to get your ass kicked by random battles if you avoid combat and don't explore enough, but really; there's a lot of random battles and a lot of shit to find on top of that. If you find everything and get all the Seru spells for all your characters you'll always be overleveled and it'll be easy, but if you play normally and just fight the battles that you get into while exploring it ends up having a pretty nice curve. There are some tough bosses who will show up and fuck up your shit if you try to just play to the ending without learning the systems or exploring around. That being said the grinding is somewhat fun and provides some good incentive to just get into fights and mess around, but the game is on the longer side and I doubt you'll finish it in less than 50 hours.
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>>5209249
casual and betapilled
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>>5209521
This applies to every shitty jarpig not just Legaia.
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>>5209396
I'm a long time SaGa fan since the gameboy games, and Unlimited does deserve the flack it gets.
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>>5210073
>Unlimited does deserve the flack it gets.
You mean it deserves being sistematically lied about by people who didn't bother playing it for more than an hour at best?
Or being called shit because it actually tries to come up with something original and gameplay focused instead of being another run of the mill game propelled by cinematics and a pathetic excuse of a story?
The game isn't flawless by any mean, but it does not deserve any of the horrible criticism it got in the west, none of it, especially because most of it, like the same old tired criticism of the reel system, is not even true, it's all misinformation, and incredibly dishonest.

Being a fan of the series matters less than anything, I'm another fan of the series and I consider it the mechanical pinnacle for most things, I know a few other people who love it because of its hybrid tabletop design but hate the rest of the series because it plays more like a standard JRPG, if you're a fan of the series and say that Unlimited deserved the treatment it got, you're honestly not a fan at all in my eyes.
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>>5210073
>Be Kawazu
>create a game series with the sole goal of challenging preconceptions of what a JRPG should be
>accidentally lean a little too long on the Romancing Saga formula
>unleash a creativity avalanche with Unlimited Saga
"Ugh, what is this odd shit? Just terrible!" -self proclaimed Saga fans that give up after just a few stages because they don't understand the system.
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>>5210419
>Or being called shit because it actually tries to come up with something original and gameplay focused instead of being another run of the mill game propelled by cinematics and a pathetic excuse of a story?
That's what SaGa has done since its inception; use completely new mechanics and design ideas. While it nails it for the most part, Unlimited completely screwed the pooch by having too much focus in all the wrong places. Enemies having LP was one of its bigger cockups.



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