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Smogon rulings make the game much more fun to play. Prove me wrong.
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I don't play competitive, how exactly are they affecting my single player experience?
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>hail the king of smogon
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>>38304397
because gf makes mons to cater to smogon ruling
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I'd prefer Smogon if it had an item clause.
Otherwise sure, it's a fine ruleset.
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>>38304397
>ooga booga me hate smogon, I want to use all the pokemon I want!
>What?! Why is my opponent using a team of 6 legendaries? I just want to use pokemon I like in competitive for once!
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I think it's more of a "nothing else" effect over anything

Smogon is fan-driven, so things happen about as soon as they can, and there really isn't anything at all out there that's quite like Smogon, you know what I mean? Like, in the literal sense, there is ACTUALLY NOTHING ELSE that is like what Smogon is, which no one can dispute because it's just the fact of the matter and there's only one of it.

It's like trying to compare something when there's nothing to compare with.
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>>38304397
Whats the difference between smogon and VGC exactly?
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>>38304511
VGC is the format done officially by Pokemon themselves, and the biggest difference is that its mainly focused on doubles
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>>38304397
only the evasion clause
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yeah, not with le 56% dictating the meta
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>>38304684
you can play a tier/meta besides OU you know
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>>38304540
>VGC
>mainly focused on doubles

VGC is doubles bro. There is no official singles format sanctioned by gamefreak except for battle spot singles.
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>>38304740
OU is the most popular tier listing, ignoring it ignores a huge portion of current play
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>>38304498
there's VGC but no one really cares about it for some reason
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>>38304397
>OHKO moves are not allowed
OP proven wrong.
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>>38304903
People care but they don't really talk about it.
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>can't use my bro
proven wrong.
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>>38304511
Smogon is mostly singles. There is a doubles format but nobody cares about it.
VGC is all doubles.

Smogon also has way more rules.
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>>38305103
desu I'd take it as a badge of honor that the furry shillmon was such an obnoxiously overpowered pile of guff that it had to be banned because otherwise every team had to run it and things dedicated to the sole purpose of killing it.

And by badge of honor I mean "fuck this thing and don't try to defend it, it deserved the ax and so did mega mence".

I love Anubis and I'm pretty mad that one of the coolest figures in mythology was completely wasted on this fursuit trashbag. His movie was cool though.
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>>38305267
Damn dude I'm not the biggest fan of Lucario either but that's pretty harsh.
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>>38304684
>56%
Not anymore.
Plus the usage% number is weighted in favour of battle winners, so you can't use this number to make comparisons with VGC.
The truth is that Landorus-T is in 28.852% of teams (Raw), and sent out in 32.264% of battles (Real)
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>>38304903
It's because doubles is dumb
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>>38306510
>1695
lando is almost obligatory unless you're running weather or stall
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>>38306875
You could also run Gliscor or some combination of Tornadus, Rotom, Scizor, Ferro, Rank to cover the same things
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>>38306875
>1695
OU uses 1695 to determine usage stats.
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>>38304455
>vp is one person
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>C-Competitive pokemon? Oh... you spend all day looking for the same pokemon with different numbers? T-That's cool, anon.. Then you also have to battle over and over again with them? I see... Oh, sometimes you spend all day walking the same direction just to hatch eggs? N-Nice haha... That's cool anon.. I just like to play with my favorites or whichever's the cutest haha
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>>38306875

1800s here. Lando is very versatile but he is by no means obligatory if you're not running weather or stall. It's simply a mon that is very splashable on teams.

Running common balance cores with clef+pex+steela or gliscor+zapdos+gastro are very common as well. Running volt turn offense with protean gren+rotom-w+sciz does not mandate the use of lando. Neither when running hyper offense. Sash drill or webs would achieve the same results. Same goes for screens.

So no, lando is not a must for the other archetypes of play. I completely disagree with your statement.
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ROMHacks make the game much more fun for me, I go in spells with competitive play and I have no patience or skill in teambuilding so I'd prefer randomized metas.
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>>38307344
>I have no patience or skill in teambuilding so I'd prefer randomized metas.
Building is probably the hardest thing to get good at regarding competitive and lots of people never bother learning how to build.
Just steal some random SPL team you like the look of or request a team to be made around a specific pokemon/core on Smogon's teambuilding workshop.
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>>38305267
>His movie was cool though.
Because it had a trio of Ancient robot Chads in it
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>>38304397
AG is the best tier
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>>38304397
I prefer VGC because doubles is more fun
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>>38307869
VGC is just a gayer version of Doubles OU.
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>>38305144
And this proves it's not as good ans normal singles.. rules make everything worse
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Lol. Smogon players are retards who can't accept the official rules and/or are too stupid to adhere them. That's why they make up their own makeshift rules and whine about every bit that doesn't pamper to them.
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>>38308358
smogon existed before there were official rules.
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>>38304684
This happens every generation though. Look at Gen 1 Tauros (>80%), Gen 2 Snorlax (>90%), and Gen 3, 4, and 5 Tyranitar (~60%, ~50%, ~40%). OU has always been centralised by a single Pokemon, with Landorus-T being the most centralizing of the last two generations.
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>>38304397
>needing to be told what Pokémon to use to have fun
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>>38308545
people that complain about landorus generally don't actually play competitive or started playing in gen 7.
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>>38304434
The tier system allows you to competitively use your bro in a place where it won't be outclassed by everything.
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>>38306875
>obligatory

Maybe Snorlax is obligatory in Gen 2. You would struggle to built any team in that format that isn't improved by just subbing 1 mon of that team for Snorlax. But Lando isn't even remotely that good. The only team archetype where Landorus could even be considered obligatory in Gen 7 is VoltTurn.
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>>38307725
6 Arceus is how the game was intended
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>>38308545
Why were snorlax and tyranitar so highly used?
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>>38309564
Sleep Talk mechanics in gen 2 were busted.
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>>38304511
VGC is ran by pokemon themselves, doubles only, and they have less restrictions (only restrictions are no 2 of the same item, no event pokemon, and sometimes no big legendaries like box legends permitted., usually they unlock all but event pokemon eventually.)

Smogon is community made with a tier based system on what is and isn't viable. Stuff thats too strong actually gets banned to ubers by community vote, and weaker stuff gets placed in lower tiers where they have a better chance of being playable. They have a lot more rules though, items are not restricted but baton pass, number of pokemon you can send to sleep, evasion mechanics, and some other stuff being restricted.

Its like they try to balance the game to be competitive but they completely forgot this is Pokemon and RNG takes competitive out of the equation anyway. Its why there's often controversy because they may ban something that people feel is questionable and perhaps biased, or alternatively leave something that has been overdue for years, and the council that runs the community can be absolute dicks to everybody and silence majority of the playerbase from even giving an opinion.
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>>38308545

Players make a bigger deal over lando because this is 3 gens (5, 6, 7) of him being top tier, with a much larger sample pool of pokemon to work with. (makes sense for tauros to be at the top of 151, but lando being at the top of 600+ is kinda questioning the standards)

Doesn't help that overcentralization is considered a bannable offense (aegislash), but then you have lando that pretty much glues team comps and causes a lot of lure sets to be made specifically for him (HP ice for example) making the community wonder if the decision to keep (or ban others) is based on council bias if the reasoning is the same.
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>>38304397
It's boring, so you're already proved wrong.
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>>38310537
Lando wasn't #1 in gen 5.
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Remember when Smogon tried to ban Garchomp in Gen 4 and it was a huge topic of debate?

Good times.
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>>38310703
They eventually banned Chomp but regardless of the result, the damage was already done
>All those attempts at killing it with an ice-type move only to sponge it with Yache Berry
>haxxing niggas with sand veil
Good times
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>>38310835
Didn’t Salamence get banned afterwards?
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>>38308751
>hurr durr I can’t read
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>>38310537
>Doesn't help that overcentralization is considered a bannable offense (aegislash)
that's not even true
read the explanation for why aegislash was banned
it was literally just because king's shield forces 50/50s
they say outright that the centralizing aspect of aegislash was fine
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>>38304397
>rules
>fun

Pick one faggot
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>>38310927
No, they said countless times that argument was bullshit and it could be applied in any coinflips, Aegislash was literally banned because it was the meta, it made countless pokémon worthless or way worse than they were, it could do anything and be on any team and it was uncounterable and the list of reliable checks was dismal, there was no reason to not have it on your team, you could make a team without it but why would you do it?
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Better than VGC at least
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>>38306994
These 2 opinions that anon posted are not separate from each other most of the time
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>>38310927

Had nothing to do with coinflips, because there are way worse coinflips in the game (sucker punch being on of them that actually does damage and doesn't rely on contact moves to successfully counter something).

Aegislash was banned because it was highly splashable..

>lando-t fits hyper offense, balance, and can be flexed on stall teams thanks to intimidate and stealth rock

Caused the meta to be warped around having checks, and not teambuilding pokemon that are completely hard countered by it

>Lando-t has no counters, but it does force a lot of lure sets especially with HP ice, switch ins to check its set, and it does counter quite a portion of the game due to its natural typing, ability, stats, and access to u-turn, stealth rock, and knock off making it risky to play anything into it to the same degree aegis can bullshit certain sets to make checking it actually detrimental.

Lack of true counters to nullify majority of its sets.

>Counter is a meme term in recent generations, especially with Z moves, but back when aegislash was a debate primarily only bisharp was reliable since it can nullifying king's shield with defiant, was immune to toxic, but even that could get lured by sacred sword. Lando-t is in a similar position because nothing really "counters" him, more things can reliably switch into him, but with access to u-turn and knock off, as well as free stealth rocks, having lando-t puts the opponent in an unfavorable scenario regardless.

I'm not trying to suggest aegislash drop back to OU, but if the logic behind that ban applies to something else, it should be considered (hello lando-t)
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>>38308872
>6 arceus
>Not deoxys squad with psychic terrain
>Not generic Uber team with mega fug and sometimes an extra arceus
>Not literally a Uber team
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>>38304870
wasn't it singles in early g4
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>>38304397
Smogon rulings had a place four gens ago when competitive wasn't really a thing outside of fan rules. Their official policy was even "we try to emulate the game as it is in game, not what we want it to be. No bug fixes, no changes." The thing is, there now is an official ruleset that the main game is balanced around. Smogon's refusal to adopt things like the item clause, team preview and not bringing your entire team into battle, or their insistence on playing singles only instead of doubles, has forced them to create increasingly complex rulesets and ban lists just to keep the game "fun." it used to be you could explain the smogon rules to someone in a couple sentences; "No evasion or OHKO moves, no putting more than one pokemon to sleep, no two of the same pokemon, no cover legendaries." Now in order to explain OU to someone you need to pull up their website and read off a banlist that, while it might make the game more balanced, is so complex it defeats the purpose of "be a ruleset for people that want to competitively play pokemon as it is in game." The fact people can complain about stall AND power-creep should be a big indicator the problem isn't the pokemon, it's the rules. The simple fact of the matter is, the game isn't made for singles anymore, and Smogon should adapt to what the game is.
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>>38311471
This!
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>>38311471
Just play AG
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>>38310835
Looking back, it was really kinda busted. I'm just kinda upset that with powercreep, most Pokemon need either severe overhauls or megas in order to stay relevant. Gen 4 will always be the golden ages of online battles for me.
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>>38311471
It's almost like VGC is significantly less balanced than OU
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>>38311596
ha nope.
VGC is the most balanced and skill based meta.
It's a legitimate esport unlike shitgon singles.
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>>38311670
Whatever helps you sleep at night
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>>38309564
>Sand Stream provided constant chip damage on nearly everything, nullifying Leftovers and stacking with hazards/status
>extremely versatile, able to run offensive, defensive, wallbreaker, lure, sweeper, and revenge killer sets
>great STAB combo and movepool to dispatch nearly every counter, even Swampert has to fear HP Grass or a Band Crunch in gen 4
>ability and typing turns him into one of the best special walls in the game, even able to take 1 or 2 SE hits
>can blanket check a lot of the tier

In a way, gen 3-5 Tyranitar is similar to current Landorus-T with more exploitable weaknesses. Play generation 3 to get a full appreciation of how centralizing Tyranitar was to the entire tier.
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>>38311670
Reminder players have won VGC using rock slide flinch hax and parahax, and verlis almost got 1v1'd in real life because he abused a minimize drifblim set to win.

>skill
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>>38311670
>97% veggie sea tiger
Yeah no
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>>38311471
>6v6 singles shouldn't exist
cringe
just play battlespot
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>>38311964
>almost got 1v1'd in real life
What?
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>>38312268
It means he nearly got his ass kicked.
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>>38304437
Based Ground-Incineroar
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VGC is eons better than Smogon 6v6. Both are shit but even when VGC is allowing legendaries it's allows more room for strategy and tactics. More Pokemon are viable in doubles than there are in singles. Rulesets are also better a good example being item clause and sleep clause. Let's say for example you're fighting a team that has a Gengar and Kartana on it. You attack the Gengar and bring it down to sash, and with that information you know Kartana is more than likely scarfed or assault vest but you know for sure it's not sashed. You can plan around that stuff in VGC but can't in Smogon. Also the lack of sleep clause in VGC requires more skill to play around, and there are many ways to work around it giving players lots of options (e.g Safety goggles, Grass types, ect.)

VGC takes more skill.
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>>38304397
UU is honestly fun, but OU has become aids from the constant powercreep of the new generations. I'm kinda glad Smogon has those usage tiers, despite not agreeing with some of their ban rulings.
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>>38312354
>assault vest on kartana
wait what?
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>>38312326
I know what it means, I just didn't know this happened. Wish I could have seen that.
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>>38312376
>UU is honestly fun
UU is unanimously agreed upon to be the worst tier this gen.
OU is just 'meh' this gen, it has brief periods of being good and bad as the meta shifts.
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>>38312413
>UU is unanimously agreed upon to be the worst tier this gen.
half of /vp/ prefers it to OU
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>>38312424
Why would you take /vp/‘s opinion on anything?
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>>38312432
how can an opinion be "unanimous" if it's not unanimous?
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>>38312424
/vp/ can't into competitive.
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>>38312387
It was actually used for a while, since Kartana is so frail in Sp. Defense most players would use any special attack to take it down, but with AV and some Sp. Defense investment it could take some hits. The idea was to catch people off guard since they would use any special attack to OHKO it.
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>>38310857
Yes, but not until HGSS. Between Garchomp, we had Shaymin-S, Deoxys-S, and Latias banned before Salamence got the boot. Scarf Latias at least kept Mence in check. Without her you had to shove Weavile/Mamo on your team, win a speed tie with Scarf Jirachi or Flygon, phaze it with Skarmory once it locks into Outrage, or get it weak enough for Scizor's Bullet Punch to pick it off. The last two methods aren't even reliable considering the prevalence of Dragons + Magnezone.

It's crazy how at one point, 100 was considered an amazing speed tier with only a handful of Pokemon above it. Now it's considered average.
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>>38312512
>It's crazy how at one point, 100 was considered an amazing speed tier with only a handful of Pokemon above it. Now it's considered average.
this fucked me up when I came back to competitive battling after not touching it since the very earliest days of gen 5
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>>38312536
If you were to tell me in 2010 that a Rock/Fighting-type with 129 Attack, 108 Speed, Stone Edge/CC, and decent bulk would not only be OU, but would drop to BL and then UU in later generations, I would have laughed.

I would have laughed more if you told me Starmie, Scizor, Celebi, Suicune, Gengar, Swampert, Lucario, and Infernape would be UU.
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>>38304397
I agree, OP. But I blame GF for ever letting the meta be a mess to the point a third party is needed. Smogon should never have existed.
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>>38312729
Smogon goes back to gen 3, anon.
It exists because there WASN'T a meta at the time.
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>>38307307
outlining why competitive is for even bigger faggots than the rest of us, oops
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>>38307307
Ok?
Why should I care about the way someone else plays while I can play my way?
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>>38307718
Arguable the best legendary trio.
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>>38312354
>VGC is eons better than Smogon 6v6
>VGC takes more skill.
Wrong
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>>38304455
This is correct. I can’t believe you people enjoy playing with the same mons over and over again. You do you, but I just have no idea how you find that stuff fun.
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>>38313202
>Doesn't refute my point at all
Okay faggot. I made my points, make yours. Otherwise you're wrong. I didn't even go into detail on how you have to select 4 Pokemon to bring to battle, which is even more important in Bo3 sets.
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>>38309564
Gen 2 is a very bulky gen because of how EVs worked in Gen 1 and 2. Instead of having 510 EVs so you could only max out two of your six stats, they were called DVs instead and could max out all six of your stats as well.

Crit was no longer based on speed and had a set standard percentage.

They nerfed sleep, which also buffed rest. Then they introduced Curse, which basically everyone could learn and was really good due to how DVs worked.

Then with the introduction of held items, and how DVs wroked, Leftovers as basically the best item to have in most situations.

Snorlax got buffed in a way do to the special split, gaining high special defense and use was a perfect candidate for curse. Because of its combination of stats, and Dark/Steel not nerfing Psychics/Normals as they intended it . Snorlax could also carry Fire Blast in case Skarmory/Steelix tried to wall it. It was a good time to be a Snorlax as the only Pokemon that could reliably OHKO it was Machamp.


tl;dr: Snorlax is the best Pokemon of GSC OU and it honestly should have been banned as almost everything in OU is OU on how it revolves around Snorlax, whether its reliably walling it, reliably killing it, reliblying walling/killing the things that threaten Snorlax or making Snorlax's job easier in the long run.



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