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>Fire arrow
>Frost arrow
>Two arrows
Fuck that shit. How do you make archers more interesting than "limited wizard"? What abilities do they get?
>>
cute feet
>>
Make the archer female and put her into skimpy outfits in order to make her "interesting" to the incel virgin male population.
>>
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Dragon's Dogma.
Always Dragon's Dogma.
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>>484578013
mages already cover that field though
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>>484578132
explain how that's different from "limited wizard"?
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>>484577839
give them a horse
>>
Any projectile you can give an archer would be something a wizard can conceivably do better. Explosive arrow? Exploding fireball. Split-arrow? Magic missile barrage. Traps? Wizards have way better traps too. Explosive trap, frost trap, shock trap, whatever. You can't really give them any unique attacks unless you give them a dagger or spear or something.

They're better in the DEX/AGI categories, stick to that. Climbing trees, sneaking around, moving quickly, reaction time, initiative, etc. Although teleport and stealth spells also exist. Basically, wizards are OP in theory.
>>
>>484578003
Based
>>
>>484578325
You'd need to play up the limited spell pool of wizards for archers to be viable. You can have hundreds of arrows, but not hundreds of spellslots. If games wouldn't let you recover spells anywhere at no cost, that'd be a huge advantage.
>>
The trick is that people need to make more efforts to better define magic and place limitations or rules on spellcasters instead of worrying about "realistic" or more conventional methods of fighting.
>>
Learn to shoot with a missing arm

https://youtu.be/uAbzttzocMk
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>>484578257
It's not elemental based. It's proper bowery with various types of physical feats.
>>
for archer you need to play up how much of a elven cock sleeve they are since a smelly old man mage cant do that
>>
Making "an archer" is as limiting a concept as "guy who casts cure spells". Even if you keep strictly to what a character does you can add some breadth and detail. Is the character a hunter that stalks prey in the wilderness? A marrksman doing trick shots with pinpoint accuracy? A (mounted) skirmisher delivering rapid shots while moving around at great speed? Naked barbarian from naked barbarian land that prefers the bow because she's a noble, but is equally skilled with the mace and spear?
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>>484577839
What about 3 arrows or rapid fire?
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>>484577839
Here is the thing, a wizard with the right spells is better than any class at their job, a warrior can use heavy armor and a big sword, a wizard can create a magic barrier and buff himself to use an even bigger sword, a rogue can sneak around and use lockpicks, a wizard can turn himself invisible and magically open locks, there is nothing a non magic class can do that a magic class doesn't do better.
>>
Why stop there? Wizards can summon minions to fight in melee, and they can just conjurer stuff that other classes would have to spend hilarious amounts of money on, like armor and weapons. Why bother with fighters?

Wizards can see through walls, use levitation magic to lift things, disarm traps, or unlock doors. All with magic. Why bother with rogues?

I mean, if you're cool with being some old faggot in a dress that is.
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>>484577839
Archers should have status effect arrows, not just element. Making them versatile
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>>484578794
>Wizards can see through walls, use levitation magic to lift things, disarm traps, or unlock doors. All with magic. Why bother with rogues?
This is every Morrowind play for me. Why the fuck bother with lockpicking when I can make a spell of 100 Open on touch? Fuck it I can make a spell of 100 Open AoE in a 100m radius on target because fuck you I'm a wizard.
>>
realistically if magic was real everyone would be some form of wizard hybrid, even if it just a big enough spark to start a camp fire its still an advantage
its like going into war without a gun
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>>484577839

the ability to equip arrows as melee weapons and stab the shit out of things up close.
>>
>>484577839
Give them bullshit range and better CQC. Isolate DPS wizards to the midfield.
>>
>>484579029
The limiting factor with magic has always been aptitude. It's like being a Jedi in Star Wars, not everybody has the special gonorrhea inside.
>>
Wow, not a thread I thought I'd ever see carbon copy'd and posted several times. But then, autism loves repetition, eh?
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>>484578794
>I mean, if you're cool with being some old faggot in a dress that is.

Works for me
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>>484577839
All of those elements in a single arrow. But each time you fire one you lose 1% of hp
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>>484578257
Wizards can't combine their shots and even bow skills with various kinds of special ammunition. They also suck at climbing and killing monsters from their back.
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>>484578132
Based, have yet to play an rpg where hitting with arrows feels as impactful.
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>>484579339
Honestly everything else was perfect too. Spellcasting has never been matched, climbing on giant monsters has never been matched, being a warrior/fighter and just face slamming things with your sword has never been matched.

Dragon's Dogma has all the right curves in all the right places.
>>
>>484577839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MPVU2HLu88
>>
Now I want to replay Fable.
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>>484578013
This but unironically and with this >>484578003
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>>484577839
>archer
>uses two swords
heh, ezpz
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>>484577839
You can't. Ranged combat is lame and always will be.
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>>484577839
Don't forget Arrow Rain and Poison Arrow and Triple Arrow.
>>
"Marksmanship" Hunter Artifact Weapon
>>
/v/ constantly shills Dragon's Dogma. Is it actually funor is it shit and the shilling usual /v/ contrarianism
>>
>>484579339
Unironically Diablo III. Multishot+rockets build is fun, even though it's mostly "hold button till everything dies", because there's so much shit flying on your screen
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>leg snipe
>squall volley
Nothin personnel
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>>484578257
Althought they do have “two arrow” shit, they also have arrows that pin enemies together or against a wall and some other tricks.
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>>484580119
It is fun.
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>>484577839
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>>484580119
It's so fun I've played it three different times on three different platforms and enjoyed it every time. Legitimately one of the best single player RPGs ever made.
>>
>>484578325
>antimagic field
Nothing personel, caster
>>
All archer classes should have a bird companion to add some variety of skills.
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>>484580119
It was good until it got on PC, typical /v/ behavior.
>>
As meme as it is, check Legolas in the LOTR movies for inspiration.
>>
Yes anon, I read this thread a few weeks ago as well.
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>>484578132
noire is cute though
>>
>swing sword
>shield bash
>block
wow... dudes... it's almost like... video games gamify all combat roles.....
>>
>>484580435
When you're shooting flying chickens in the sky, how do you differentiate between your flying chicken and the flying chickens you want to shoot out of the sky?
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>>484577839
>slash
>stab
Wow, how do we make swords not boring?
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>>484580119
Depends what you find fun. It has almost pitch black night, riding monsters as they fly off, very long walks to and from your destination, pretty good use of dynamic lighting, the ability to carry cute lolis around on your shoulder, spells that feel really good to use, and a hell of a lot of cut content that will just make you depressed when you find out about it.
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>>484577839
make them deal physical instead of magic damage
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>>484579421
>Spellcasting has never been matched
>spinny spinny staff for 10 seconds
>woohoo epic!
>repeat for 50 hours
Dragon's dogma has by far the most boring and uninteractive spellcasting in any game i've ever played. You have to be baiting to think the monster climbing isn't just shitty shadow of the colossus and melee combat is as basic as it gets, no combos just use skills whenever they are available until enemy dies. Dragon's dogma tries to be so many things but doesn't do anything particularly well, solid 7/10 though
>>
>>484578132
But Dragon's Dogma archers were no fucking different.
> Arrow
> Double Arrow
> Triple Arrow
> Tenfold Arrow
??????????
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>>484579308
>Wizards can't combine their shots
Must be a pretty shit wizard if you can't combine spells
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>>484580393
>>484579785
Archer is a sword element mage, idiots
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>>484581132
>Arrow
>Multi Arrow
>Arrow Rain
>set yourself on fire
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>>484581114
>Dragon's dogma has by far the most boring and uninteractive spellcasting in any game i've ever played
Holy fuck how is it possible to have such objectively incorrect opinions?
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>>484581132
>arrow that bunds enemies to walls
>arrow that penetrates through multiple enemies in a row
>arrow that deals more damage the more mass the enemy has for it to penetrate
>arrow that stuns the enemy with a deafening noise
>arrow that draws all your stamina into a deadly shot
>arrow that explodes into mini-bombs in a timed fashion

There is also Magic Archer which has a bajillion different effects and also allows use of dagger/staff.
>>
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>>484580892
what game?
>>
>allow classes other than wizards to do interesting things
>"You're just making them like wizards!"
I fucking hate the generation who grew up on WotC D&D for being unimaginative fucks.
>>
>>484581969
Wyvern's Doctrine
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>>484581114
Anon you're not supposed to use only the high level spells. The thing that makes spellcasting in DD good is how different every magic is to the others and how different enemies react against each element.
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>>484581763
Not him, but it IS uninteractive. There's nothing engaging about holding button for 10 seconds except not getting hit. The problem is, that's how 99% of RPGs do that. At least in DD it looks cool in the end.
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>>484577839
I really like the rain-like ability in Kurtzpel
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>>484581969
Webm is Dragon’s Dogma
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>>484581114
spellcasting is literally the pawns job i was bored to tears 10 hours in, can't imagine a pull playthrough
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>>484582193
I like that in DDO they have a minigame where you basically connect the dots together to improve the spell's effectiveness. And if you manage to finish the minigame quickly, your spell instantly finish chanting too. Also neat that the runes you draw in that minigame actually create a chanting phrase.
>Bolide is MARK OF ABSOLUTE DISASTER
>>
>>484578257
Virgin wizards have to spend time casting fireball if they want a long range explosive
Chad ranger uses their bow as a fully automatic rocket launcher
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>>484582109
Based
>>
>>484577839
POISON TIP
NET ARROW
FREEZE SHOT
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>>484577839
Interrupts.
>>
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>>484577839
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>>484577839
Divinity original sin 2 had pretty rad archers crafting like dozen of different tips for arrows, from smoke cliunds to elements to charm arrows.
>>
>>484580892
yeah but can i have my amazon waifu pawn to carry me on her shoulder?
Please help i need this
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>>484577839
Feet thread.
>>
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>Mfw drill arrows in Dark Messiah multiplayer
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>>484581768
>arrow that kills your friend in order to deal massive damage

If this this didn’t make it into DDO then Capcom are cowards.
>>
>>484577839
>Poison arrow
>bodkin arrow
>explody arrow
>root arrow
>infatuation arrow
>stealth arrow
>>
>>484583036
Pawns can learn a trick where if you’re about to take falling damage and they can catch you, they will. Happens sometimes if harpies drop you from great heights. Once a pair of harpies dropped my pawn and me both from the top of soulflayer canyon down to the bottom. Thought I was dead, but my pawn is a 7k hp chad so she survived the fall and then snatched me out of the air.

They put you down right afterwards, unfortunately.
>>
>>484577839
What makes an archer more interesting is dynamic movement and positioning, diving shots, rope arrows to swing off of, down-facing shots that give you a little bounce to stay suspended (rule of cool > realism), slow motion aim in mid-air, and a few limited melee skills like a launcher to pincushion someone in the air or a big ol' boot to knock them back and stun them.
>>
>>484580119
Its definition of unpolished gem. I love it and i constantly replay it, but i know it has some issues.
Its dirt cheap on steam, just buy it, play it blind, dont get discouraged before you reach gran soren and enjoy one of greatest adventures in vidya.
>>
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>>484577839
>sword slash
>sword stab
>two sword

Fuck that shit. How do you make knights more interesting than "sword man"? What abilities do they get?
>>
>>484582923
>cripples ur flagger
>poisons ur team
>dshots ur monks
>snipes ur NPCs
Nothin personnel, scrubs. GW1 Rangers are underrated as fuck, but Mesmers > everything.
>>
Let's brainstorm some shit we'd like to see for vidja bowmen. Even existing ones welcome.

>Two arrows connecting with each other if within a close line of sight, effect may vary like electrocution, poison, web etc
>Arrows act like platforms so anyone can jump on them
>Volley arrows that explode on impact after going on a steep arc
>Friendly healing arrows
>Supply arrows
>Hook arrow to get pulled forward faster when stuck on a teammate, can pull airborne enemies towards you or just slow ground walking ones
>Vertical or Horizontal triple arrows
>Flee arrows which are shot straight up in an attempt to hit or slow attackers chasing you as they drop behind your path
>Message arrows that show text kind of like a spray where it impact (including player models)
>>
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>sticky explosive arrows that only explode when you hit them in melee
This is the best skill in video games ever period. Nothing ever came close to pure satisfaction of exploding all the arrows in a single close-quarters combo and launching enemy to orbit with consecutive explosions.

Also Immolation climbing.
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>>484584386
the chain arrows from the latest wow trailer were pretty effective
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>>484578003
Baza fpbp
>>
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>>484583885
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>>484582923
Such a satisfying sound effect.
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>>484577839
Utility arrows(rope, sound, messages) ,
Multishot,
Mobile and ranged(mid jump shoots. Or even mid somersault)
Trick shots(ricochet, bending trajectory)
Precision(targeting weakspots only available to them)
Make bows silent compared to magic.
Tracking and stalking.
Cannot be hindered by anti-magic and counterspells.
Shooting should be faster than casting a spell.
>>
>>484577839
Why not just get rid of wizards?
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>>484583885
Tackling and throwing
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>>484577839
Makes them 90% naked with big juicy milkers.
>>
>>484577839
>Bruh why do archer use arrow based ability the frick
Give the archer wilderness based abilities like small animal summons/companions or the ability to find and use more supplies in the wild. For the martial based archer you can have support shots that move targets or incapacitate instead of damage.
>>
>>484578132
Dragons Dogma is the most overated piece of shit I have ever had the misfortune of playing.
>>
>>484588765
go back to playing your bing bing wahoo games faggot
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>>484589415
It handles like boiled milk. The controls are a fucking joke.
>>
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>>484577839
make a game with actual chad war archers with heavy longbows not stupid twink elves and women that shoot their bow sideways. Archers should be huge guys who look like they're pulling the sun out of orbit when they draw. Have a variety of bows and arrowheads. Hammer arrows, Fragmentation arrows etc.
>>
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There's two ways to make archer fun that i can see
Make him an ABSOLUTE unga bunga unit shooting with such a power it causes something akin to a ballista shot worth of damage, with specials being focused around causing massive physical aoe damage, sending enemies flying with any shot and melee distance maneuvers that allow him to continue shooting in melee too.
Or just go balls deep into magic archery. Give a very wide variety of effects on hit, tons of magic utility, homing effects, arrows summoning creatures on hit, arrows you can shoot into the sky to cause a lighting storm, etc.
>>
>>484581114
>This game sucks!
>But otherwise it's p.good.
>>
>>484581763
He is objectively right. It's by far one of the dullest spellcasting systems i can think about
>>
>>484577839
Divinity does a pretty good job. Special arrowheads are consumable items (knockdown being far better than elementals) and abilities focus on movement and multiple targets/more efficient use of action points

At the end of the day a dude with a bow is just a dude with a bow though, not a ton of creative wiggle room
>>
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>>484592196
Depends on how much you want to stretch the definition of archer. FGO goes a bit crazy sometimes so it's not the best example but archers can be more interesting than just a simple dude with a bow.
>>
>>484577839
Rpgs always gotta have unrealistic beauty standards
Archers in Dragon Age inquisition were OP when done right
>>
Guns > bows

That's how you fix it.
>>
>>484583885
Shamelessly copy a bunch from For Honour.
>>
>>484577839
What if the archer was more of a projectile-ist with a catapult and throwing boulders?
>>
>>484594982
Then it'd be a slinger
>>
>>484577839
FFXI did it best. They were among the strongest of DDs but they needed to be standing in a sweet zone (certain distance from the target) and have trained a stat that is really hard to level. What they would do is make these really high damage skill chains. So when the melee DDs or tank would use a weapon skill, they could follow it up with their own weapon skill that would do insane amounts of damage followed by a renkei effect which could be 'magic bursted' (have a spell cast at that exact moment) which would cause the damage of the spell to go through the roof. Also they made for good pullers and could stop mobs with a hate shift from moving towards the casters.
>>
>>484577839
Dick arrow.
>>
>>484579421
>being a warrior/fighter and just face slamming things with your sword has never been matched
Except for when you go full Guts build and have to forget 4/5ths of your whole moveset because you only have 3 slots for fucking skills for some reason.
>>
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>>484577839
Kicks, punches, light melee skills (shortsword, saber, dagger)
Stealth
Piercing arrow (like the one in MHW)
Climbing skills
>>
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>>484577839
why not both? and a Magik Archer in Dragon's Dogma is also highly skilled with dagger/light weapons, can cast some interesting/unique spells for modifying themselves or their weapons on command
>>
>>484599219
>>
>>484577839
>How do you make archers more interesting than "limited wizard"? What abilities do they get?
For one, stop making archers some wimpy little girls with shortbows. Make the archer some ripped dude with a longbow taller than his two meter tall ass. Before faggot ass Drizzle Durden came in with his twin curved daggers and prancing about with dexfaggotry or whatever in D&D, Rangers were hulking motherfuckers who had the hugest muscles, a massive longbow and a big fucking greatsword because they put every point into making a big fucking hole in bitches.

Have that god damn arrow shot's placement actually mean something. Almost zero video games do fucking anything with shots to select parts of the body outside of doing extra damage with headshots or applying barely noticeable debuffs, fucking retarded. When some Skyrim guard talks about that arrow to the knee, he shouldn't just have gotten slightly slower walk speed and then quit being an adventurer; he should have told you how he fucking ragdolled and then spent hours crawling on his elbows to get to safety because his leg was fucked.
A Ranger doesn't need a dozen gay ass magical arrow techniques to fire a dozen ice arrows in a fucking touhou pattern, he just needs his arrow to fly true and cripple limbs and other body parts when he hits them. Stop jerking off over headshots and start making real shot placement matter.
>>
>>484577839
I want to sniff, kiss, and lick pretty lady feet
>>
>>484597284

lets be honest the only reason FFXI did it right is because bow damage scaled off of STR instead of DEX.
>>
>>484577839
Give them ability to do parkour like in Asscreed.
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>>484577839
You don't. Ranged weapons are what you use when you lack combat skills and are a weak coward.
Lift some weights and train and get an axe or something like a real warrior.
>>
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>>484589753
Your IQ score is a fucking joke if you can't even handle simple controls.
Seeing a device more complicated than a door knob must give you a fucking heart attack.
>>
>>484577839
Literally just shot web
>>
>>484577839
just make wizards "limited archers", duh
>>
>>484577839
Water arrows taffer.
>>
>>484577839
The only game that did Long Bow play right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4Vcjrrk9k
>>
>>484580540
Noire shouldn't have been born
>>
Weren't the archers in Tactics Ogre crazy strong?
I remember them being able to shoot halfway across the map and arc their shots to hit different targets
>>
>>484604494
And if you are a Tekkenfag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUDQFqaQk48
>>
>>484578013
Bet you'd like it if it was a man wearing a g-string faggot
>>
>archer class has cool moves like multishot and homing arrow
>musketeer class doesn't get shit while doing lower damage
I hate games that do this
>>
Bow & Arrow becomes obsolete the attosecond you've got magic projectiles.
Unless you actively make a Muggle class that can't use magic and has to rely on tech.
>>
>>484578132
>dogshit dogma
Kill yourself
>>
>>484589753
out of all the things you complain about its the controls? kys retard.
>>
>>484604884
>tech
>Its a heat seeking arrow instead of homing arrow.
Same shit
>>
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Fire Emblem's had to confront this issue in variable ways.
>mages and archers tend to have pretty good speed and average to mediocre defense
>both are distinguished from melee fighters by their ability to attack at range
>magic damage is dependent on the resistance stat while bows do damage to defense stat so mages generally have the advantage of being able to shred high defense units with low resistances while a bow user might(keyword: might) have the advantage on killing high resistance units who tend to have low defense or an outright weakness to arrows(flying units), or due to their innate high accuracy and generally decent ability to crit, hit high-speed units

So you get most games where archers are a joke in the wake of a baseline competent mage unit, or stuff like FE9/10 where mages are a joke where archers tend to be great.
Three Houses confronts this in variable ways. It gives archers expanded range like FE2/9/10 as well as a counter-attack skill to cover their traditional weakness of not being able to fight back during the enemy turn.
Magic using units get the advantage of not having to lug around weapons so they have their entire arsenal available for being low maintenance since you don't have to buy them weapons.
So archers get the superior range while mages get the versatility and low resource needs with both having their niches in regards to taking on enemy types, since Three Houses also makes some attempts to confront the franchise traditional strategy of "lmao just cheese shit on enemy phase"
>>
>>484597284
Everyone hated Ranger after the rain ge changes and that was far from its glory day.
The really beautiful thing about FFXI ranger in its heyday was that it was the baller class. Ammo cost a fuck ton (especially in CoP era), you had to level ninja which also had expensive spells (which took an expensive reagent for each cast) and you had to have the skills for both guns and bows leveled, and gear for each to be able to fit into different group comps/ camps (elemental and weapon type resistance of mobs actually fucking mattered)
But if that all came together then you out damaged everyone like 5 fold while wearing pimping sunglasses to boot. It was like the job for neckbeard kings who already had 2 or 3 others 75s.
>>
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>>484580119
>contrarianism
>>
gotta give them cool mobility skills and throwables etc to spice up the point and shoot combat
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>>484581114
>whenever they are available
>>
>>484577839
Pet wolf or hawk.
Make him a fantasy snake with camoflage and cqc.
Trap and disarm. Generally a ranger.
>>
>>484601334
Not true at all. Bow damage came from AGI and DEX.
>>
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>>484604884
>spend your whole life learning how to deliver a payload
>don't have the time to learn a decent payload
>>
>>484607750

no, ranged accuracy and crit rate came from AGI, ranged attack came from STR. DEX is irrelevant to both RAttk and RAcc. the only time DEX would be relevant is if its used for scaling specific weapon skills, which even so i think are still based on fSTR v enemy VIT, if they are physical. though in current FFXI i think the best WS is an AGI and Light/Magic attack. dont really know shit bout modern Ranger.



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