Thank you.MGS 2 wasn't meta like people unironically believe. It was only something Amerifats put in to make the game more deep. It's good to realize more and more people realize MGS 2 is as deep as a puddle that obsessed fans only believe as big brained when it's a legitimate brainlet tier game. Fuck the contrarians.
>>462301120http://blog.hardcoregaming101.net/2012/02/agness-kaku-update-konami-japan.html>待たせたな!>You kept me waiting!
>>462301562But in the game he says "Kept you waiting, huh?"
>>462301913They fixed it in later versions, look at what Agness thought that line should have been>"Literal" translation (actually mistranslated)>You kept me waiting! >Agness translation> Think I'd wait forever [the comment is directed to the player]?
>>462301507Don't pretend this shit isn't relevant in <current year>
>>462302103Ahhh I see.Wow, what a fuck up.
>>462302352Best part is that Agness passes off her mistranslations as what the script was "supposed" to be and uses that as proof that her rewrites improved the game.
>>462300848I see a story about some people. Can you actually tell me major things that were translated wrong in meaning or intent?
>>462300848Also it's story was shit and the script was shit
>>462300848I remember reading that the translator hated working on this game. Apparently the entire process was super restrictive and she had to gut a lot of the lines to make them fit the dialogue boxes or something which tends to be a common issue with older games and their translations.
>>462302213This is just a bunch of pointless platitudes that can't present a sensible point and make it's argument standIt's not even worth reading
>>462304185The MGS1 translator also despises Kojima and MGS in general.
>>462304484This. Hardcore fans knew this from day 1. Kojima didn't like the translation that blaustein had for 1 because it wasn't exact. He took liberties with the script so it conveyed nearly the same meaning while sounding really good in english. Blaustein didn't come back for the rest of the games and kojima had the localizers do a direct, almost stilted localization of the script. Compare TTS to MGS1 and you can tell, aside from all the VA's sleepwalking thru it.
>>462304185Agness Kaku hates video games and didn't have the basic Japanese language skill to understand simple grammar (see >>462302103 >>462301562 ) but is a crazy narcissist so she went around telling people how MGS is shit and she's the one responsible for making it successful.Are you retarded?
>>462304783There's a very interesting interview about it, I'll see if I can find it.
>>462300848I don't care what this persons opinion is.Its not gonna make me suddenly not like MGS2
>>462302213All of this has been proven wrong. The world is not a conspiracy.
>>462304786Didn't she enjoyed working on the Katamari series? Also as stated by another poster this isn't the first time some translator despises Kojima. The claims against her are as trustworthy as the stuff she said.
>>462304783So you're saying that all of TTS' retarded shit was also Kojima's fault?
>>462302887I know how to read a thread. Anything else? Was Snake actually saying there is such thing as absolute reality? Details messed up?
>>462304337>Questions about memetic truth, individuality, humanity, responsibility, heritage, morality, tribalism, censorship>Bunch of pointless platitudes You could have just said you didn't read it.
>>462305019There's proof like >待たせたな!>"Literal" translation by Agness (actually mistranslated)>You kept me waiting! >Agness translation> Think I'd wait forever [the comment is directed to the player]?That she doesn't even have basic Japanese grammar skills so it shouldn't be surprising that someone who actually understands both Japanese and English like Kojima would be mad that her translations were shit.
>>462304786>>462305361That looks like common affair for video game translations from that time. Isn't there any actual example of something that cripples the script or anything?
>>462305081>>462305081100%. For example, the dude who directed the cutscenes was known for his elaborate and over exaggerated choreography, and he wanted to tune it down out of respect to MGS1. Kojima told him basically to "go full retard, since that's what's ur best at" and that's how we get missile backflips, cutting P3 of the gray fox fight for some inane cutscene, and snake pulling a gun on baker after the ocelot fight. TTS was an okay to good game on its own rights but it is no way in hell comparable to MGS1
>>462300848How do we know that this guy isn't just making shit up?
>>462301507This a better game mechanically than Menu Gear Solid: Time Eater
>Very good. We're a 100% UN-recognized 'Opposition to Metal Gear' aka OMEGA*. Don't you forget that you're a part of an NGO and can chew granola with the best of them.t. Agness Kaku
>>462300848>blablablablablabla>Oh btw game>blablabla
Friendly reminder that Jeremy Blaustein gave an interview to a Metal Gear fan podcast in 2008 about a month before the release of MGS4 and basically said exactly the same shit Kaku did years later.
>>462305401FF8. Every time squall says whatever he's supposed to have a pretty lengthy internal monologue but the localizers were shit and couldn't be bothered to translate it. FF7 suffered but not as much considering the plot was much simpler than FF8's for good reason. FF9 was when they got good localizations
>>462305009How was your bar mitzvah
>>462305751MGS2 also has a lot of flaws in it's gameplay, specially with how obsessed it is in throwing set pieces that don't take advantage of it's stealth mechanics.
>>462305843Seriously? That actually makes a lot of sense. He does have a lot of internal monologues as it is.
>>462305843>Every time squall says whatever he's supposed to have a pretty lengthy internal monologueThis is so fucking terrible it's hilarious.
>>462300848This is not about MGS at all, is it?
>>462305840Just for reference.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sx7yttJm0I
>>462300848Okay but what is actually significantly different in the final product?
Kojima is the george lucas of video gaming. Great director of some all time acclaimed hits who benefited from the help around him and someone to cull his ideas a bit, but when let loose we get the prequels/MGSV
>>462302213if you agree with the ai, why are you here on the internetis this website somehow exempt from being one of those pools
>>462305621Also something similar happened with the "Love can bloom even on the battlefield scene", apparently the translator wanted to tone down the scene but the Japanese team wouldn't let him.
>>462305401Wild Arms 1 had a terrible translation that also fucked up a ton of thematic names like>old man who adopts a puppet (homunculus) as his son named Gepetto>they translate Gepetto to "Zepet">also they translate homunculus to Holm CrossAnd then when the PS2 remake of WA1 was supposed to fix the translation a bunch of retards from gamefaqs went and harassed the translation company for "changing" the names until they ended up leaving in the original shit translation retarded bullshit.fuck america
>>462306263Death Stranding will be a self-masturbatory pseudo-intellectual arthouse shitfest like you have never seen before.It will take pretentiousness to another level.
>>462306386A lot of the dialogue in MGS1's English released was basically rewritten completely by Blaustein because when translated into English, it barely made any sense or just outright sounded ridiculous. Stuff like Ocelot's innuendo in his boss fight and Sniper Wolf quoting Blue Velvet isn't in the Japanese version. It's basically why he was canned and never used in the series again (but also why the quality of dialogue peaked in MGS1 and went solidly downhill for the rest of the series), Kojima's people came down fairly late in the recording sessions and reported back to Kojima that the script had been changed so heavily, which caused him to go berserk.
>MGS2 was going to be called MGSIII>The Tanker was originally going to be a Plane Hijacking in the Middle East transporting a Nuke/Metal Gear>There was going to be a splitscreen section like the Vamp fight in 4 but the PS2 couldnt handle itKINO.
>>462305843You sure about that?https://legendsoflocalization.com/squalls-whatever-line-in-japanese-final-fantasy-viii/There's nothing lengthy being replaced here.
>>462306715Imagine being a fly in Kojima's office the exact moment he went REEEEEEEEEEEE.
tl dr lolbased
>>462301507>believing asshurt agness kaku's lies in 2019shiggy diggy anonor maybe she did invent the whole game being meta? maybe she actually wrote the whole plot with the game being a simulation of shadow moses, not kojima? maybe she actually wrote the lines of code that appear on-screen in the ending portion of the game where raiden is naked and the colonel goes nuts?do you faggots seriously think that the only "meta" part of the game was the codec conversation with the colonel and rosemary AI?
>>462306834oh wow i was mistaken, thought they were like paragraphs. good to know
>>462305878>implying you have to be a /pol/nigger to question the censorship and information overload in the digital age
>>462300848>>462301507It's hard to take any of these claims seriously without specific detailed examples.
>>462305840The difference is that Jeremy Blaustein's changes actually improved the product, which is why Twin Snakes' script is slightly more stilted and less natural than MGS1's. Agness Kaku's proposed rejected changes are terribly written. See >>462305756
>>462307490That silly ass name sounds exactly like the type of shit Kojima loves honestly.
>>462306834>>462307096it was still drastic enough to show that squall is more of a professional than just a whiny teen
>>462307096I'm pleasantly surprised you aknowledged your mistake. Do check the other articles on that website, they're damn good.
>>462307824I never said it was correct, but we definitely aren't dealing with the blatant negligence of outright deleting entire paragraphs.
What exactly is happening?I'm not reading a poorly formatted, written, in media res wall of text.
>>462308386OP's claim is that Agness Kaku created the "deep" elements of MGS2 in her translaiton, and that Kojima can't write and his (and/or Konami's) guidelines for translation were too strict.
>>462308386>Agness Kaku created the "deep" elements of MGS2 in her translaitonWhat? That is retarded.
ok so basically i should learn japanese and play the japanese version of the series?
Is this some schizo making shit up or is there anything supporting this claims?
>>462308932Sounds too good to be real.
>>462308932OP never claimed that, retard
>>462309376Basically kojima should learn English
>>462309561The stuff in OP pic never actually mentioned MGS but it matches MGS2 perfectly
>>462309561The fact that no evidence has been posted makes me think OP just assumes we're all gullible retards who will believe anything.Understandable since it's /v/.
>>462309772So someone just wrote bs about mgs but never mentioned the franchise explicitly so that makes it any less bs?
>AGNESS"Mickey Finn in my morning glass of OJ""Plastic Explosives 'R Us""待たせたな! = Thought I'd wait forever/You kept me waiting""You're not in the military-complex anymore, Dorothy""Jesus H. Christ, Snake! Are you smoking? The hell is wrong with you?""Think again!""I don't think Shalashaska is a real word, you should get a Russian native for this""You haven't read the Surgeon General's Warning have you">KAKU
So it's just a schizo, moving on.
>>462310534It's mostly complaints about over-localization. That doesn't make it a shit translation. MGS1 was the same way. These games would never have gotten as big as they did if not for that campy tone those kind of lines set. I'm not saying they couldn't have gotten a better translator for this, there are some actual errors, but it also doesn't mean the game is secretly shit and we were wrong for liking it.
>>462310850Specially considering how awful most translations used to be during those days.
>>462306740>There was going to be a splitscreen section like the Vamp fight in 4 but the PS2 couldnt handle itthat section in 4 was horrible, and the framerate didn't help
>>462310850It's openly shit
>>462301562Actual nip speaker here. The green translation is horrible.
>>462308932>>462309112From what I've read on that linked site ITT that seems to be true or at least the translation added a ton of personality to the characters.Fuckin EOPs lmao. You don't even know what you're reading. Your whole experience of the game was one girl's imaginative interpretation of the original.
>>462305287Not him, but I read it, and it's not that deep. It points out some pretty obvious shit about the digital age, but attempts to word it in an intelligent manner. Then immediately makes a huge argument for "context" (IE: government dictated important topics. Kinda like China) and then peters off in some supervillianous bullshit.If you read that and find it deep, I feel genuinely bad for you.It's as deep as a pool of piss.
>>462309561Could be. The whole drama between Kaku and that one HG101 editor is peak autism for both parties. Wouldn't be surprised if the autsimo schizo editor wrote the shit in the OP.
>>462300848Found the source if anyone's interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/ProRevenge/comments/7pe1z2/make_up_bullshit_and_publicly_badmouth_my_project/
>>462313350The original post is from reddit you mong
>>462313584No shit sherlock!
>>462313068Is there no actual way of confirming any of this? A single post by a deleted user doesn't seem all that credible.
>>462310850She makes up a load of bullshit that's nothing like the original text, and in the few cases where she supposedly does a "straight" translation it turns out she can't handle elementary school level basic grammar>"待たせたな! = Thought I'd wait forever/You kept me waiting"
>>462311660And yet /v/ EOPs will continue fellating kaku till the end of time because they have to be contrarian
>>462300848Based ninja hitman
>>462315181>Is there no actual way of confirming any of this?It's made up bullshit.
>>462315804>>"待たせたな! = Thought I'd wait forever/You kept me waiting"Is that even in the game?
Why are stories of localization always horror storiesWhy can't these fucking cunts just translate shit properly
>>462316802Western publishers don't/can't handle QC for translation because they don't understand Japanese to begin with, that's why they have to outsource translations.Japanese companies don't/can't handle QC for translation because they don't understand English to begin with, that's why they have to outsource translations.Game translation companies have no stake in the final product, they're paid on commission/per project so how well it sells means nothing to them, and in the end 99% of the players don't know about how bad the translation is because they only see it in one language so they get away with it every time.And then every once in a while when people who do understand both languages raise a stink, drooling drones show up to defend the translations like in this thread >>462305840>>462306386>>462306715
>>462300848MGS2 was translated by a dude. He's got a Twitter account.wtf is this post talking about?
>>462317419>And then every once in a while when people who do understand both languages raise a stinkThat's because said people only stick to the literal translation. You're aware how different localization is to just translating the game right?
>>462316509>Is that even in the game?It isn't. It's the fanfic invented by the fag in the op.
>>462317982Good to see you have nothing of value to add to the discussion.
>>462317950Localization should never include changing the content in any significant way, shit head, much less putting your own spin on characters to give them "personality", that shouldn't be up to some fucking translator's judgement
>>462318379>Localization should never include changing the content in any significant wayWho said it should?
>>462318217Oh you're linking your fanfic again, cute.
>>462316802It's always outsourced and you need credentials but if you have to translate vidya for a living you're probably at the bottom of your profession.
>>462317950We're talking about a translator that can't handle elementary school level grammar and makes up for that by not even bothering to translate and just rewriting everything, dumbfuck.
>>462318470Isn't that the whole discussion here?
>>462300848Kojima is a hack
>>462318613>Interview with Agness Kaku>fanficjust fuck off and die already shitposter
>>462304337Yet brainlets claim the original Deus Ex is fucking deep
>>462318379You're aware you have to give some lines "personality" while translating because the meaning is lost since there's no actual counterpart to a lot of unique Japanese expressions and verbal tics right?
>>462318613Sorry, but you're gonna have to deal as long as no one slips a Mickey Finn in the morning glass of OJ.. You're not in the military-industrial complex anymore, get in touch with her again about that new Natick flashware. Dorothy.
>>462301507Holy hell you're retarded.
>>462318731>>462318838>>462318996I triggered the schizo, cool.
>>462318987Have to why? So the nuance is lost, why do you "have to" replace it with oc donut steel shit instead of opting for the most neutral and direct way to express the idea?
>>462318731The lines in the game are different from those though.
>>462319186>Have to why? So the nuance is lost,The nuance is already lost with a literal translation, localization is trying to save said lost nuance in a way in which it still feels natural in the new language.
>>462319067The best part is how he just goes in circles, internet nutcases never fail to make me laugh.
>>462319186Because then the dialogue is flat, and you get flak because the nuance is lost. Translators, right or wrong, never win.
>>462319334That's literally not what I was talking about>changing the content>putting your own spin onYou're just talking about fucking editing
>>462319334Which is the complete opposite of what Kaku does, given how she not only makes up straight up bullshit but also can't even understand the nuance to begin with due to being unable to handle basic Japanese grammar.
>>462319430No, nobody would get flak for "flat" dialogue when it's just people talking like peopleMost people don't actually communicate in retarded jibes or fancy expressions or fucking memes or whateverSounds like some hack's idea of good dialogue if you have to dress up every line like you're delivering an epic one-liner
>>462319669>No, nobody would get flak for "flat" dialogue when it's just people talking like peopleThat happens all the time. A lot of people hated the new translation of SotN for example compared to the original due to how stale the dialogue sounded compared to the 90s translation.
>>462319517Localization can be considered a form of editing, only that this type of editing is focused in cultural differences.
>>462312395name something that is deep then
>>462319761Pretty sure it happened with the GBA FFVI and the DS Chrono Trigger.Funny nobody complains about stuff like Fawful, though.
>>462319761That's a meme, dude
>>462319669It's not like you can only take that direction when localizing the dialogue. Sure, if you are a hack you're just gonna replace jokes for trendy memes but a joke in which the punchline only makes sense in Japanese needs to be changes or otherwise most of the audience won't get it, so that needs to be changed, hopefully in a less clumsy way than with the meme example.
>>462319761A lot of people are retarded. See >>462306696>Siegfried Zwei is real german>NOOOOOOO STOP "CHANGING" THE NAME TO WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE KEEP IT AS "ZEIK FREED TUVAI"
>>462320283You also have cases in which the actual Jap version is the one being retarded. Like with that character named Aspara Gus. Both sides can make retarded or sounds observations.
>>462319860Yeah, and it's biggest mistake meme this industry ever fell forImagine if somebody translating actual literature took the liberty to change the content of a book to be more approachable or whateverWell, it's actually happened in the past hence why many works have gotten re-translated later on, but I can't imagine it being considered appropriate or acceptable in any situation nowI only wish video games got the same treatment
>>462320508>Imagine if somebody translating actual literature took the liberty to change the content of a book to be more approachable or whateverThat happens all the time with actual books.
>>462306714>>462306263It looked like it was going to work with the horror genre and silent hills,horror is perfect for that psudeo intellectual fuckery.
>>462320580Dude, literally the next line from your quote
>>462320508The 'solution' would be translation notes like in all those school books.
>>462320485That's a stupid pun name that sounds fine in Japanese and nonsensical in English and that is a LEGITIMATE example of the necessity of localization.Doing retarded shit like say changing the job class "swordsman" and "ranger" in an RPG to "landscknecht" and "survivalist" on the other hand is not localization, it's some stupid fucker who wanted to be a writer but didn't have the talent abusing their position to force their shitty OC bullshit onto someone else's hard work.And then there's stupid shit like "this monster's name kagachi means snake in Japanese but it means vagina in some obscure language so we changed it to kadachi which means nothing".
>>462301562>wanted every codec line to end with "over" despite the fact that the codec isn't just a normal radiocontrarians WILL defend kaku
>>462321065Bumping your own thread schizo-chan?
>>462321065Yeah, that's how the thread's been going.>>462319067>>462318613>>462319334>>462318987
>>462321232literally my first post in this very thread. sounds like you're the schizo lmao
>>462320870>Doing retarded shit like say changing the job class "swordsman" and "ranger" in an RPG to "landscknecht" and "survivalist" on the other hand is not localization, it's some stupid fucker who wanted to be a writer but didn't have the talent abusing their position to force their shitty OC bullshit onto someone else's hard work.I don't think anyone's denying that you can do an awful job at it. You have cases in which it's a necessary change, other times it can be just the translator being an idiot.
>>462319186Because that's what localization is. Localization is not a synonym for translation, it's adapting a translation to a different culture, typically by making changes that are usually intended to convey the same feeling/idea to the audience but require different means to do so because of differences in culture and language.
>>462321410That's bullshit but I believe it.jpg
>>462321524Some people aren't happy until you go full Persona 4. And even then they'll find something to complain about.
>>462302103>They fixed it in later versions, look at what Agness thought that line should have beenThe game had the lines like that even during preview builds, the Japanese voices were there but the subs match the current version.
>>462321524And that's not equal to just rewriting everything for no reason and turning it into your own nonsense trash>like say changing the job class "swordsman" and "ranger" in an RPG to "landscknecht" and "survivalist"
>>462321524Yes, localization is retarded, what else is new?
>>462321935Autist got mad at the translator from MGS2 talking shit about Kojima.Makes shit up to make her sounds incompetent.Keeps repeating said shit over and over again in an attempt to make it sound legit but always fails to provide solid evidence.
>>462321935Shitposting retard trying to fight an anonymous reddit post from years ago (this guy >>462322114 )
MGS1 and MGS3 had pretty fine translations.
>>462322165The thing is that people keep acting like localization is a free pass to rewriting everything for no reason, like >>462301562 or >>462320870 or even using it to defend straight up mistranslations at times.
>>462321935literally nothingi haven't seen any evidence
>>462322250Schizo-chan is mad at me, cute!
>>462322392Some people will always do stupid shit, what else is new.
>>462322114Some people just don't have better things to do with their time, huh.
>>462322513And yet shitposting contrarians will defend that stupid shit to the bitter end.
>>462322251Volgin saying Kuwabara, kuwabara was kinda nonsensical in English though since he's Russian.
>>462322859Honestly your fault for wasting your time giving attention to a shitposter.
...So can anybody who reads Japanese please post some damn proof in either way?
>Dara Amadyura's name is derived from the Babylonian word for tower, "Dara", and the Babylonian word for armor, "Amadyura". >"localization" changes this to Dalamadur because ??????
>>462323053Just look at >>462301562 and it's clear that agness is full of shit regardless
>>462323053The MGS2 translation isn't even a translation, for the most part it's a complete rewrite. But the few lines that ARE actually translated show that the translator has zero grasp of basic grammar>>462305361Snake's catchphrase "kept you waiting, huh?", or "literally" translated just "Kept you waiting!">>待たせたな!>>"Literal" translation by Agness (actually mistranslated)>>You kept me waiting! She can't even figure out the subject of a simple line, and then thinks it should be changed to:>>Agness translation>> Think I'd wait forever [the comment is directed to the player]?
>>462322894I'm sure there were russian weebs in the 60s
>>462323414>>462323198You keep posting the same god damn example, like a nut; get *another* error, if the translation is such a colossal fuckup.From what I can tell, she went way too far on the "punching up", and didn't really seem to keep the tone intact; but the way you're talking it's like this is "Warriors of the Wind"
>>462323414It so much of a rewrite that it changed future entries?
>>462323126They probably just transliterated the katakana, completely unaware it was in babylonian. Probably because none of them were versed in babylonian.
>>462324106Yeah, the first one's me. Care to fucking answer now?
>>462324116The katakana is coincidentally, LITERALLY Dara Amadyura ダラ・アマデュラThey changed it to Dalamadur for no reason
>>462324116>, completely unaware it was in babylonian. Probably because none of them were versed in babylonian.That's an excuse if you're a fansubber, not if it's your job and you could just ask the devs "could you give us a doc on what the names are derived from"
>>462300848>i speak english>come over as
>>462324282Okay, if they're clearly separated then there's no real excuse. Just from that first post I assumed they saw ダラアマデュラ while in a rush or something.
>>462319937my dick in ur mom
>>462324819>Dara Amadyura is too long
>>462324819Even that it'd be ダラアマデュラ and not ダラマデュル
>>462324918>Dara Amadyura is too long>in a game with:>Shagaru Magala>Blue Yian Kut-Ku >Emerald Congalala>Rusted Kushala Daora
>>462308932That's retarded, what is it with translators having massive egos?There's only so much that can be changed with a translation, the ideas were already there and framed by everything else in the game.
>>462307824i remember one interview saying some of squall's lines were supposed to be inner dialogue rather than open verbal expressionin otehr words he might have been thinking "what a fucking cunt" but then he'd actually say, "ill try harder next time"
>>462300848>most of the dialogue was entirely rewrittenMGS2's translation was notably different to MGS1 in that MGS2's translation was actually far more faithful to the Japanese script, whereas 1 was heavily rewritten in localisation to appeal more to westerners. This specifically bothered Kojima and is why he had different localisation staff used for 2.
>>462324949That's why I said "in a rush". I assumed it was a simple error/typo they made while trying to reach the deadline. But no, they were just idiots who couldn't be assed with friggin katakana.
>>462318917Nobody says DX is deep, but it deals with real issues of information privacy and how far technology can be used for evil goals. The difference between DX and MGS2 fanbases is that the latter claim MGS2 is some nip monkey's gift to mankind, while people who played DX realize it was just one more piece of media about totalitarian fiction. MGS2 brainlets only show their ignorance for this kind of stuff when they say THIS WAS NEVER TALKED BEFORE and retarded claims like that.
>>462325875>>462324949>monster hunter "localization">Tokuda says that the names are derived from languages around the world, based on monster actions or physical features. For example, Paolumu’s name comes from the Chinese word “pao” meaning “wrap”, while Anjanath’s is derived from Arabic for “hidden wings”. They also had staff dedicated specifically to naming monsters, and Tokuda was also in charge of the final decisions for localised names. For example, the monster originally named Tobikagachi in Japanese has its name derived from “tobi” meaning “fly” and “kagachi” which is an archaic word for “snake”, and Tokuda wanted to leave its name as it was, but the localisation team informed him that “kaga” is an offensive word in Italian, and he allowed them to change its name based on this information.
>>462325960>but it deals with real issues of information privacyIt never does that.
>>462326102Like when they changed Zidane's name in the spanish FFIX (so people wouldn't associate it with the football player), except stupider.
>>462326102>Anjanath’s is derived from Arabic for “hidden wings”It took me ten seconds in Google to get the correct name "Ajnihat".Capcom's translators can't even put that amount of effort in?
I once read an interview with the translator for MGS2, and she definitely seemed extremely arrogant.
>>462325508Wow, one example. Which funnily enough is from the very site that backs up exactly what I said.https://archive.li/efzRI>Not many would go to the trouble of reading fiction books just for authentic dialogue. You were more than just a localiser.>Exactly, so this was not a case of translating words as much as it was original writing. I could have simply translated things and said I don't really care how the English sounds - it would have been a lot easier, but it would also have been a lot less good. Take the opening sequence for example. Snake asks "is this OSP?" Meaning "On Site Procurement". I totally made that up, you know. That's not a real term.>We arrived at that through a process. And when we decided that Mei Ling should have a Chinese accent, it wasn't because we mistakenly thought she was from China. We knew that she was raised in the US. But we said: problem is, she's got a young voice, and we've got these static visuals, she's going to sound a lot like Naomi, who sounds a lot like this, who sounds... You know, we need some different kind of feature to make her voice stand out.Agness' own interview is here:http://web.archive.org/web/20120125211117/http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/metalgear/agnesskaku.htmYou're basically taking one example of a mistranslation and acting like that in any way challenges what I said about 1 being more liberal and 2 being more literal.
>>462326594Bumping your own thread schizo-chan?
>not knowing English, Japanese, Russian and FrenchIt's like you want to be fed lies.Translations are always imperfect, and all translators are traitors of the original text.
>>462326456That's not about information privacy. It's about autonomy. In the whole conversation he makes one offhand remark about privacy and it's never followed up on.
>>462326819If you looked at the IP numbers, you'd have noticed that was my first post. The interview I read had her talking shit about Kojima, saying MGS is on the level of a Tom Clancy novel, or something. I don't remember the specifics, but it sounded extremely disrespectful and arrogant.
>>462300848The writing was shit, too.
>>462326924There's a huge gap between "imperfect" and "Sorry, but you're gonna have to deal as long as no one slips a Mickey Finn in the morning glass of OJ.. You're not in the military-industrial complex anymore, get in touch with her again about that new Natick flashware. Dorothy."
>>462326102>“kaga” is an offensive word in Italian"Caga" means shits in Italian, but that sounds like one hell of a stretch. "Caca" means shit in pretty much every European language, but they didn't rename Kakashi into Kekashi, or something like that. Laputa being renamed Lapuntu because it literally means "The Whore" in Spain is more of an appropriate call.
>>462327142Hey, they have to come up with some bullshit to pretend that they're relevant and are doing real work.>MH translates what is literally "critical hit rate" in Japanese to "affinity" in Englishwhy can't these fuckers just die
>>462327372>>MH translates what is literally "critical hit rate" in Japanese to "affinity" in EnglishThat's how that happened?? What the fuck is wrong with them!?Who the fuck looks at MonHun menus, and thinks "This definitively needs to be more obtuse!"
>>462300848>tl;dr bad translator gives interview slander game I worked on>I get her blacklisted from working in the industry>then everyone stood up and clapped
>>462327549The Japanese translation of "critical hit" in pen and paper RPGs was 会心の一撃 (literally "hit that went great") and this carried on to CRPGs. 会心 has been taken to mean critical for decades. See pic for example.Critical hit rate in MH is just 会心 + 率 (percentage).If you're a stupid fuck who doesn't understand Japanese at all and just puts it into google though you get garbage like >atonement、gratification、satisfactionBecause online dictionaries are garbage (look it up in a Japanese only dictionary and you get the correct meaning).Capcom's translation team is literally google translate tier or below.
>>462306714Death Stranding will be “E.T.” of this generation. It will be the spark to start a second video game crush.
>>462327549Also you can straight up just get it from wikipedia so fuck capcom's shit translators https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%AB%E3%83%AB%E3%83%92%E3%83%83%E3%83%88
Basically from reading this entire thread it seems like localizers have always hated video games. Fuck why the hell should I even bother to play another poorly translated japanese game, then?
>>462310850The game is not secretly shit, it's just shit and you are wrong for liking it.
Are these threads Caramel doing this because his brain finally went schizoid overdrive from the fact that there is no ruse at all with MGSV/Death Stranding?
>>462328150>Kojima Productions will be buried in a landfill
>>462323478Being Russian and playing MGS3 is sufferning. Klukva does not even beging to desribe that shit.
>>462328150so that's the "connecting" aspect of it?
>>462304337>>462312395Damn brainlets, I almost feel bad
>>462327072Nothing like that is said anywhere in the game
>>462300848God damn seeing people that know absolutely fuck all about translation talking about what constitutes a good or bad one, or really what trade-offs a translator does when doing his works makes my blood boil.Take it from an someone who actually studied and did translation kids: there is no literal vs. natural dichotomy.The minimum baseline standard of a translations is:1. Faithfull to the content, style, genre and register of the original.2. Natural sounding in the target language.Different translators have difficulty with these two points in different ways. Inexperienced/fan translations usually struggle with the second. while professionals that get high on their farts struggle with the first.I will tell you this as well though, translation is a lot more science than art. Just like science, you have to have a proper factual knowledge base to start from so your science/translating can be accurate, and also know when is the time to spread your artistic wings, and to what extent. Those times are usually when dealing with specific culutural items, and even then translation theory has already done a pretty good job of establishing best practices when dealing with situations like that or other difficult tasks.What I mean to say is, well trained and experienced translators tend to not produce too different of works, as there are indeed better and worse approaches, which they should know already from said training and experience, and follow them.Translation, at least good translation, is NOT a Wild West anything goes localization effort.
>>462326971Tom Clancy's novels are better actually
>>462331808Bumping your own thread schizo-chan?
>>462331495Guess you didn't read the surgeon general's warning...
>>462332034Its not my own thread though.
>>462332265This is my third post in the thread, but whatever floats your diseased brain's boat my friend.Piece.
>>462332387Look ma I triggered the schizo~
223 posts and still so little evidence to back up what OP is saying.Literally all it would take is take is a dozen or so comparisons between the English and Japanese versions of MGS2. Would be trivial for someone who is apparently so sure MGS2's translation is a trashfire.Seriously OP, if you're so desperate to convince people, go do it.
Did you say NERD?
>>462328195>aggro is translated to "enmity"
>>462329218No I'm not
surely theres one person here who played MGS in japanese and english and can verify the claims
Hilarious seeing all the Thief fanboys dog pile on anyone that criticizes their arrogant goddess who can't even do her job right. >>462301562
>>462305971Which is also a problem with MGS1 as well.
>>462333006Think I'd wait forever [the comment is directed to the player]?
>>462305971MGS is not a stealth series despite the lies of the devs. If Star Wars called itself a sci-fi instead of a space opera, it's still just a space opera.
>>462332842I did and the English localisation is bad not just because of the dodgy translation but because of bad voice casting and direction (Raiden is miscast as fuck, go listen to his Japanese voice).
Oh look it's been 6 hours and nobody have proven OP wrong.
>>462307897Not that guy, but I remember reading some of the FFIV articles on there some time ago, and while most objections were sensible, the author had a lot of embarrassing cringe opinions on what constitutes good translation as well.
>>462333328True for raiden but idk about other characters. I like eng vamp more.
>>462333589Vamp is okay but Raiden is the one you hear for the most of the game and he's the worst of the lot making it a miserable experience.Emma is terrible too and Rose is also pretty bad especially since she's Inoue Kikuko in Japanese.
>>462331808Good post. You guys should read the localization blog posters the head translator at Capcom did for the recent games, it's similar to this.
>>462334116>>462331808Sorry, but you're gonna have to deal as long as no one slips a Mickey Finn in the morning glass of OJ.. You're not in the military-industrial complex anymore, get in touch with her again about that new Natick flashware. Dorothy.
>>462305401If we were talking about Metal Gear 2, maybe, but we're not.
>>462334319Retard. >>462331808 is a good post and I still think Kaku's translation is shit.
>>462334116*blog posts for ace attorneyFucking phone
>>462333436Because it's a fucking unverifiable anonymous post with no sources you faggot.
>>462300848I still remember that the original translator of MGS got pressured really hard by Kojima to literally translate the "love can bloom on a battlefield" instead of localizing it because Kojima couldn't stand the translator trying to work the idea into something that didn't come off as sounding retarded.I never knew this, but it was just one of those lines in the original game that I thought was really stupid at the time next to all of the gene bullshit later on.
>>462316802Because you never hear about the good times. Like when the guy who translated the Pokemon games added musical references to random hiker dialogue.
>>462335028Sorry, but you're gonna have to deal as long as no one slips a Mickey Finn in the morning glass of OJ.. You're not in the military-industrial complex anymore, get in touch with her again about that new Natick flashware Dorothy.
Hey guys Hideo Kojima fucked my hairy man ass in a Los Angeles gay bar and told me Snake is Raiden's father
>>462335028Blaustein really did a great job with MGS1, it has the most natural sounding dialog in the entire English series by far. Not surprised "can love bloom on a battlefield" line was a direct request from Kojima, always sounded weird.MGS2 and 3 definitely have more stilted translation compared to 1 but I don't think they're that bad (especially not as bad as the autists in this thread are making it out to be). 3 I really can't find any issues with outside of Snake always repeating back questions.
>>462333328I prefer the English casting to the Japanese in a couple respects. Some of Flynn's readings are weird, but I think he's a more interesting casting choice than the Japanese. I also vastly prefer Solidus having his own actor, even if Akio Otsuka has pretty good range. I always wished Big Boss had a unique voice in MGS3 and PW for similar reasons.
>>462335431Big Boss always keeping the same voice actor as Solid makes sense from Kojima's whole (the player is Snake!!!) perspective shit.Then he just went full retard with MGSV and cast Sutherland because of his Hollywood fetish despite that game using that theme the most lol
>>462335548imagine if he had cast someone with actual talent instead of sutherland like kevin spacey
>>462335548Wasn't that because Hayter did some interviews without his permission?Sutherland turned out to be a way better voice actor anyway
>>462335548>Big Boss always keeping the same voice actor as Solid makes sense from Kojima's whole (the player is Snake!!!) perspective shit.Sure. I think it was still a mistake. Not that Naked Snake isn't intensely boring in MGS3 anyway no matter who's reading the lines.
>>462335730No Hayter didn't do anything, Kojima just decided to recast.
>>462334781>>462334116Yeah, it shows you how retarded they are.
>>462335730>Sutherland turned out to be a way better voice actor anyway>I try to remember any of his lines from MGSV>All I remember is what is in GZ>I serious think for a moment that Medic Boss was a silent protagonist throughout all of V>I realize this is fucking stupid but if you argued it to me in a vacuum with just my memories to counterpoint I'd probably believe you.I actually can't say if he was better. I remember Hayter's lines and voice really well. When I try to think of Sutherland I only recall the intro to GZ which was well-voiced from what I remember.
>>462336423MAKE DIAMONDS OUT OF THEIR ASHES
>>462336569I remember him rubbing ashes in his face, but I think I can only recall bits of speech here or there.I'm not even sure if he says "plant your roots in me" or if I'm making it up. I'm sure I heard that from there, but I just think it's a good line in context. The delivery I can't recall.
>>462336385>changing a single instance of minor dialog from a side character to avoid your company's kid-friendly game from being bumped to an M rating>Translator outright says the entire goal was to keep the original intent behind the joke, and with Japanese cultural standards the joke was never meant to be seen as creepy to begin withEnd of the fucking world right here.
I remember reading that the translator of MGS2 was shitting on the original script and how she had to work hard to salvage it, and how he hated the whole thing. It's really strange reading this years later, so she was a fraud all along? Don't know what to believe anymore.Link to the original Kaku interview where she shat on MGS2?
>>462300848yeah no shit dumdum, go learn japanese fucking brainlet
>>462336753I never thought the story of MGS2 was anywhere good, interesting, or quality until I got to the ending and had all the mind-fuck shit start happening.I could see someone calling it trash if they come from a nonvidya background.
>>462336746>its only THIS SMALL thing, who cares>ends up with "eat you hamburgers" meme comicWhen they change the small things you wonder what they do with bigger ones.
>>462336929The dude who changed the setting to Japan to LA left the series after AA1. The current localization director joined the series with the second game and even admitted that changing the setting was a mistake, but now they're just rolling with it.
>not learning japaneseThis is the real crime here
>>462336746>Scene would obviously not impact any rating>Translator deliberately rewrites the entire joke thus not preserving the original intent>Entire reasoning is based on the flawed assumption that Japan thinks Hotti is meant to be hilarious comic relief and not just as creepy as he would be in the westWhy defend shit localisations?
>>462337143>but now they're just rolling with it.That itself is a shit decision, they should've thrown continuity out and fixed it the second they were able instead of trying to stick to it as it got worse and worse.
>>462337316Eh, it's not a big deal. Most people in the fanbase just think it's amusing at this point since the locale never matters to the story at all.
>>462336901I was like 13 or 14 when I played MGS2. It blew my mind. It was much more complex and serious than I have ever expected a video game story to be, and was really impressed. It got me into thinking about the themes and stuff it covered, read some books as a result that I might have not read as a young person, maybe only many years later.Sure, I can understand it can come off as mediocre or even shit when you are 30+ years old, and have consumed countless other media that covers the topics better, but I think that's unfair comparison to have MGS2 compete with them while on top having to be a video game.I replayed it last year and I was surprised how well it still holds up.
>>462302213AI Colonel was right. Confirmation Bias has become infinitely worse as a result of access to information and how companies choose to give people information by removing platforms for people who don't fit the context.
>>462337673I don't think it's unfair because writers are only hindered by their execution. Books, games, and movies all occupy a free-time activity with each having their own strengths. Separation is only implying a lack of skill, which I think hurts games more than anything else we have to say about perceived quality of storytelling. I played MGS2 for the game after playing MGS1 and I got cutscenes that lasted longer than anything I'd ever run into. The game section also just wasn't as fun to me as MGS 1 despite all the technology they inserted.I think I only appreciated it a little better on a repeat play-through in my twentys. I think the only thing worth talking about it is its theme of information control in the digital age since Kojima predicted our times with a scary degree of accuracy. I can't fault anyone for saying that the story is shit because it's the one I connect with the least and consider the least engaging until the ending half.>>462338115>>462302213Still one of the best bits of dialogue on the subject you'll find in a video game.
Is this thread an exercise of mgs2’s themes?
>>462338408Every MGS thread is an exercise of MGS2 themes.
>>462338408Yes. People are going to argue over their perceived correctness of their opinions without taking anything anyone else says into account, only agreeing with posts which meet their current criteria for right and then leaving the thread with their feelings unhurt but only half-truth.
>>462336423It's hard to judge Sutherland's take when he has like 5 lines total that aren't audiolog exclusive
>>462327372That's fucking awful. Something similar happened in the kingdom hearts mobile game that actually was part of the plot. You had guilt, as in guilty, which made your attacks stronger but they changed it in english to "Special attack bonus". Then when they revealed guilt meant literal guilt the english side had no idea what the fuck they were talking about. They then told the players if you care go watch a video explaining it.
>>462338293I don't know how you can complain about cutscenes when like 75% of MGS1's second disc was codec calls
>>462337673i'm actually playing through the MGS games after being spoiled for everything and i wish i could have played them in 2002. i'm in the middle of MGS2 right now. i didn't know i was so bad at stealth games.
>>462328150We need another industry crash anyway. The whole thing has been poisoned since the original X-Box introduced the ideas of pay to play and DLC became a common practice.
>>462339372To be fair, MGS2's controls are really clunky and kinda bad, it's not necessarily happening because you are bad.The reason 4 and 5 feels so easy compared to the first three is because you are no longer fighting the controls, and some people may not realise that is the reason.
>>462339692The industry crash happened because the consumers collectively decided to not buy shit games anymore.Do you really see this happening, when people are happily buying DLC and Season Passes, gacha pulls and loot boxes while at the same time complaining about them?
>>462340079the controls really are shit.
>>462339692>another industry crashlol never ever
>>462339273Probably because I was playing a game most of the time in MGS 1 and there were times in MGS2 where I set the controller down and realized that ten minutes had passed.4 was definitely the worst in that respect though. No matter how much game I got I was sitting through 30 minutes of cutscenes that with good pacing and editing could've probably went 12 minutes max and get the point across.
>>462332629That line is pretty much identical in the original Japanese script, although there's wordplay with furigana you can't really carry over into English.https://youtu.be/cq6GNbalhnk?t=4033
>>462341169I'll never forget the disbelief I felt when I finally picked my dualshock 3 again after the 30 minutes cutscene (you know which one), and it actually turned off due to inactivity.
>>462341493at least add a timestamp to the scene, I'm not going to search through 7 hours of video
>>462341590It does have a timestamp.
>>462341590But he did>?t=4044
>>462341590-t mobile user lol
>>462341717>>462341742I'm on a desktop and it's not working for me, it starts from the beginning.
>>462341513I agree. Any time people meme about sony movie-games all I can think of is watching literal prime-show time long cutscenes in MGS4 before getting to play the game for an hour or two.
>>462341843Use a proper bowser next time
>learn Japanese to play untranslated games>realize I need to replay all the games I grew up with if I want the real versionAnime and game translators are amazingly incompetent.
>>462341590>>462341843Just go to 1:07:15 or so.
>>462301562That translation is a straight up hack-job. I can understand slight re-writes to give the story some more flavor, but this shit is just awful.The problem is that a lot of what makes for enjoyable dialogue in Japanese doesn't translate well to English, so rewriting is inevitable if you want something that doesn't read like shit. The issue here is that Agness is a fucking awful writer who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a military setting, she reminds me of that old Japanese woman who did a ton of awful translations for movies from E>J, including such beautiful lines as このファック野郎, or "you fuck-guy".
>>462342653lmao it's just as silly and nonsensical in Japanese, you really can't blame the translation here
>>462342729>「Hasta la vista, baby」「地獄で会おうぜ、ベイビー」>「I have the high ground!」「地の利を得たぞ!」Sometimes I'm glad I'm not Japanese.
>>462342763ナード is a word you know
>>462342729>このファック野郎What was the English? You fucking asshole? The importance of writing skill in your native language during translation is always painfully overlooked.
>>462342873your point being?
>>462342883I think it was motherfucker. Natsuko Toda is basically a complete fucking retard, and she's a million times more prolific than Agness was.
>>462342883This. And it's not enough to have interest in writing, you actually have to have some talent in it.
>>462342923>nonsensical in Japanese
>>462342995Yes, it's nonsensical, just like in English.
>>462342985How the fuck do you even reach このファック野郎 from that? My favorite mess of a translation is probably Wild Arms 2. I absolutely love the game and have played it enough times in English to remember the whole game. There's one character who's basically a human sacrifice for his village who they keep calling "pillar boy" in the game. It never made sense to me. Years later when learning moon, I saw and looked up the word 人柱for the first time and exploded into uncontrollable laughter as the game instantly popped into my head.
all this kakushillingpls go and stay obscure
>>462342995Technically it is, if you think about it. Why would 2 Americans have difficulty communicating an English word? This is also why it's so obnoxious in the translation.The joke only works if you don't think about it.
>>462342842What is wrong with either of these?
http://www.eatchain.com/garbage/METALGEAR%3F%3F%3F/Metal%20Gear%20Solid%202%20Agness%20Kaku%20Intereview/Page%201/Hardcore%20Gaming%20101%20%20Agness%20Kaku%20Interview.htmThought this was interesting.
>>462343210I really have to wonder how people who make these kind of mistakes can get into a positin to translate for a big project , when even people still learning can immediately spot the mistake.
Reminder that Raiden in the original game is voiced by a respected voice actor who did most of Brad Pitt's roles in Japan, as well as dozens of other action roles.And they had him voiced by the whiniest anime-style voice they could get for the west. No wonder people hate him.
>>462343545Because nips can't in2 English and don't know any better.
>>462343545Because translation is a field of con-artists. There is no possible way for a translator to convey their translation to the original creators. So, obviously, the field is inundated with lazy people who realise they can very easily get a paycheck for not much work as long as they talk the talk.At best, you can look at the reception of previous work, but some absolute stinkers have been praised because the original story shines through the mistranslations and gibberish. Similarly, great translation jobs have left translators blacklisted because the game didn't do well in another market.
If there's one character that was miscast it's Emma, Jennifer Hale does not sound like a cute, nerdy 18-year old with a brother-complex. The Japanese VA fits the character much better. She's perfect as Naomi though, well cast for that role.>>462343576As much as I like Quinton it was a really weird casting choice to go for pretty much the antithesis of the Jap VA, who sounds like he's trying the be the very image he has of Snake; a cool and collected ladykilling merc. You could argue the Jap VA comes across as a little too confident, but that does make it all the more surprising when he basically has a mental breakdown while facing his inner demons towards the end of the game. I think the Jap VA better conveyed what they were going for with the whole VR-trained Snake fanboy that Raiden is supposed to be, because he acts like he thinks Snake would.
>>462343929The biggest miscast was Solidus, because in English you can't entertain the idea for even a millisecond that Snake has gone against the US government.But that's more because Hayter has no fucking range, so they were forced to get someone else in.
>>462344059I never got that really, I thought the whole Philantropy idea was convincing enough, especially for Snake who's taken down so many Metal Gears. It's kind of stupid to have the same VA for Solid and Solidus anyway if you ask me, it's not like they did that with Liquid.
>this threadI have absolutely no idea what is happening.
>>462345950If you actually read it through and still don't have any idea then you are retarded, there is nothing to sugarcoat about it.
>>462300848MGS2 is the only MGS game I've played and it amazed me how campy and bad the voice acting was and how badly written and unnatural most of the dialogue sounds. I'm not an English native speaker so I thought it was just Americans having bad taste or me not getting what made it special or something, so this doesn't surprise me at all.
>>462346464No, no, you misunderstand. I understand OP and the main two sides. I just have absolutely no idea why people are actually arguing over this stupid pic that has no evidence backing it up and then the thread preceding to devolve into rampant shitposting.baffling
>>462346851I'm not a native English speaker either, I was still learning when I played MGS2, I was like 12. Since I had no frame of reference, I had no idea whether it sounded unnatural or not, so I enjoyed it just fine.Replayed it a few years ago, I can definitely see the campy and sometimes hilariously unnatural parts, but I find it a bit charming, most likely due to nostalgia.
>Playing MGS in JapaneseThere's the problem, it's always been a English setting franchise for English fans.
>>462346945It's just how it is on /v/, still a better quality thread than the usual pure political and boogeyman shitflinging and baiting, off topic shit and cunnyposting.
>>462347103The Japanese version is the definitive version.
>>462347103I couldn't imagine playing MGS in Japanese, but due to the lead langauge being Japanese for those games, you have no choice but to admit that the Japanese version is the master version.It's only a very recent thing that English is starting to become the lead language for Japanese games.
>>462325135>what is it with translators having massive egos?A lot of them are failed writers. Being a good translator requires humility.
I suppose translating games like these back in 2000 with no previous vidia/manga translation experience would be quiet hard since there wasn't much materials for reference?
>>462347327Pretty much. You're in a weird place where you have to understand that your opinions and ideas don't matter because your job is to express someone else's, but you also have to have enough control of the language to be able to write creatively and effectively while matching the ideas that the original author put forth. Most translators (that work on games and anime) are just angry faggots.
>>462347335A lot harder than today when you can just google stuff if you don't understand something.I guess google existed in the early 2000s, but the usage wasn't nearly as widespread.
>>462347304>>It's only a very recent thing that English is starting to become the lead language for Japanese games.There are maybe half a dozen titles where this is the case, and they're all fucking awful. Hiring an English scriptwriter is always a terrible idea.
>>462348153>There are maybe half a dozen titles where this is the case, and they're all fucking awful.Off the top of my head, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, DMC and RE are all meant to be played in English, and the English version of all of those games is pretty great. You can see the difference when a Japanese studio puts effort into the English version, because the English version of Sekiro (a game that's meant to be played in moon) is fucking awful.
>>462348153>and they're all fucking awfulI can remember only Silent Hill, Deadly Premonition and maybe you can count Souls games. And they were all really good. Any other examples?
>>462348153I thought it worked well in Ace Combat Assault Horizon. Shit game, but the dialogue was okay.
>>462348297>>462348316These posts are just embarrassing.Literally every game you listed was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESE. Having English voice acting does not make English the lead language for your fucking game, HotD2 was not written in English.
>>462348470>Literally every game you listed was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESEYou're an absolute fucking retard who doesn't know Japanese. Bloodborne literally does not even have an option for Japanese audio. The text was all based around the English lines. Having only English absolutely means that it's the lead language for the game.
>>462300848Based. I wish this would happen to all the shitty translators. Fuck those faggots.
>>462348546pls stop posting
>>462348690Please stop being an ignorant retard.
>>462348546>Bloodborne literally does not even have an option for Japanese audio.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWFcoxdf0pAAnyway, even ignoring the voice acting, he's correct that the game was originally written in Japanese. I mean, they're a Japanese company. They probably don't even know English, how the fuck are they meant to write it?
>>462305019>look at her twitter>all mentally ill lefty shit #metoo, orange zionist bad, >shaved head>SF bay areayea i think kojima was right to fire this freak
>>462303775>it is story>>462304337>it is argument>>462305971>it is gameplay>it is stealth mechanicsok retard
>>462316802You're just falling prey to the availability heuristic. Good translations aren't very noteworthy, so you never hear about them. You only hear about the bad ones, which makes you think they're more common than they actually are.
My rule has always been to choose the language that makes sense with the setting. MGS? English, Sekiro? Japanese, A Plague Tale? French.It doesn't always make sense, like having the Witcher in Polish or English. Fantasy worlds can be any language but obviously JRPGs are usually in japanese unless the setting is heavily influenced by medieval times.
>>462349156But didn't Kojima (or probably more accurately someone from Konami who handled this) offer her to translate MGS3 and she turned it down?
>>462347304I would argue that there cant be japanese games where the lead language is engliish unless Its a case where there are some project leads with a decent grasps of both languages(sort of like DMCV, but that one was also originally written in japanese and had a japanese dub made at the same time), why?, easy, because like with Capcom´s classic english only voiced games(classic RE, DMC, Killer 7), wihch were cases in which they made it like that for stylistic purposes(not mentioning doing just one voice over for every market), so in some cases they got whoever spoke english they could and made the best dub they could with what they had IN JAPAN(another example are the classic Silent Hill games).But then there is Metal Gear or the specific case of Killer 7 and No more heroes, where the script is written by people that arent very good at english at all, and then for the english version they send it off to another complete crew not just for the translation, but also recording the whole voice overs in a language that the writer or the director doesnt understand that well,but this is not actually important because he is not even there and the Voice over direction is done but another person, a profesional at the task you may say, that goes his/her own way.
>>462349348I usually choose japanese in JRPGs regardless of the setting, because quality of the cheap English voice acting is 99% of the time abyssmal compared to the Japanese. Otherwise you are right, I follow the same idea.
>>462348875That was literally only added in for the DLC, you dumb fuck. The game was made for English only, and even after the DLC they still explicitly say that the intended language is British English.>he's correct that the game was originally written in Japanese.The game was written and made to be played in English, per the word of God.
>>462349473that too. With budget titles the original language is usually the only choice. I just can't imagine there was much talent, care or budget to make a good translation for the latest Senran Kagura or whatever.
>game is written in english because it only has english voice actingCan someone explain this tard logic?
>>462349486>The game was written and made to be played in English, per the word of God.Got a source on that? I don't actually know who the writer was. I had a brief look at the credits but I didn't see anyone listed. Maybe I just missed it.
>>462349670There is no logic here, just because only English voices are available doesn't mean it was written in English/the lead language was English.I actually don't know which one was the lead language for Dark Souls / Bloodborne, and unless someone provides a source this is a completely pointless argument.
>>462349691>Got a source on that?This is the only thing that actually exists for it.http://playstation-doc.net/j/bloodborne/oldhunters.html>標準は、英語(イギリス)音声となりますThe game is literally meant to be played in British English, per their instructions.
>>462324871another 'two fags arguing online until someone's mom is brought up' tally
ITT /v/ proves just how gullible it really is
>>462349781>There is no logic heresee>>462349795Why do idiots who don't know Japanese argue about the intentions of Japanese devs? The original game didn't even have the option to be played in anything other than English. How the fuck could you possibly think that English wasn't the lead language?
>>462349795how is kuwabara kuwabara british english?
>>462349795not the guy you're arguing with, but it's one thing what language the director intended it to be played, and it's another thing which language was the lead language during the development process
Zuru zuru =/= Shilly shally dilly dally
>>462349867You're mixing terms up and are ignorant on how these things work, you jumped to a conclusion and are arguing your point of view with less than an open mind is all that's happening.
>>462300848So it's another fucking flip/singaporean that considers themselves bilingual when at best they're fluent ESL. They're probably the best in Asia but they are by no means native speakers yet seem to be delusioned into thinking they are. God I hate flips
>>462349795But that's talking about the voice acting. We're not talking about voice acting, we're talking about what language the game was written in.
>>462349939literally not, figuratively it is
>>462349469In the case of Killer 7 and No more heroes Its particularly shitty because the real Suda dialogue is what you see in the japanese subs and his its own flavor in place of the admittedly cool at times but devoid of subtlety and depth Voice overs, this is the work of Kris Zimmerman Salter, who also directed english voice overs for most of the Metal Gear series and because of its success is the go-to director for "quality" voice overs, in the case of Suda games, you end up with an english script laced with "cool" swearing that wants to sound cool but is not enough self aware, and where the voice acting, while having decent actors are only characterising (and directed) at a surface level (common crutch being giving everyone a different accent, while the japanese cant do that so they instead have to do a good job at playing the character) since the job also has to be quick as Its normally a proccess the japanese side is not really involved.>>462347382Like it or not, the reason MGS´s main version is the japanese one is not only that the script was original version is the japanese and whenever themes and subtleties there are where thought in the context of the japanese version, and anyone who has to translate them can only infer them (just as we can), but because Kojima himself(the director and lead writer) is the voice over director in the japanese version, he makes the casting and does the hard work. then the english version is made by other people in a proccess he doesnt not have that much in, and only important for market purposes(i.e. the Sutherland thing nd how little he cared for David Hayter, while Akio Ohtsuka he would never even think of recasting)For this thread´s purposes, and so it gets through your head: MGS2´s japanese, original version was recorded by Kojima in a year and half, MGS2´s english version was recorded in two weeks by other crew.
>>462349907>it's one thing what language the director intended it to be played, and it's another thing which language was the lead language during the development process>they meant for the game to be played in English but let me tell you why it was developed with Japanese as the primary languageCool. Do you have anything at all to back up that retarded idea?>>462350000>You're mixing terms upI'm not.>and are ignorant on how these things work,Feel free to post an actual source saying that the game was made with the Japanese dialog in mind with that as the intended language, as was the actual argument started here>>462348470>Literally every game you listed was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESE>>462350138>The game is meant to be played in English>But you should ignore the fact that the English voices all voice the English dialog because I want to pretend the Japanese text was somehow the intended version
>>462350268>Feel free to post an actual source saying that the game was made with the Japanese dialog in mind with that as the intended language, as was the actual argument started hereThat's what I'm saying here >>462349781 , I don't have a source and unless someone provides one, this is pointless.I'm not arguing that you are 100% wrong. I'm arguing that the logic you used to draw that conclusion is wrong. Also, I'm not the only one who responded to you so it could easily be mixed up.
>>462350268You're misunderstanding. We're not saying the game is meant to be played in Japanese, we're saying the game was originally written in it. From Software don't even know English. They wrote it in Japanese, then it was translated into English later on so they could have voice acting done.Again, not saying the game is meant to be played in Japanese, just that the writers are. When they're working out the plot and thinking of backstories they're doing it in their language. They didn't get an English speaker in to do all the writing and then later had it translated into Japanese so they could understand it.
>>462350534>I'm arguing that the logic you used to draw that conclusion is wrong.The game was originally only made with English voices and they tell you to play it in English, therefore it was written in and intended to be played in English. Explain the fault in the logic.>>462350556The entire conversation stemmed from a post claiming that the games were meant to be played in Japanese. Do you think by saying "Well technically the people working on this game did all of their notes and thinking in Japanese, so the game was made in Japanese" you've somehow made a point about the topic at hand? Do you have any actual source at all about the creative process behind the game? Do you know what the writers' intentions were or at what point things were turned into English? Do you not think that all of the groundwork and research they did was based on old English fiction which is where they pulled their ideas from? The is a serious question: Do you actually have anything even resembling a real source to show that they wrote this entire thing from the ground up in Japanese and then hired an outside translator to turn it into English?
>>462350262 When Kojima got to listen MGS2´s english version something struck bad with him(with good reason since Raiden´s casting is sufficiently condemnable), because he ended up convincing Konami´s heads that the update version of MGS3 would not have the english voice overs(MGS integral and MGS2 Substance had english voice overs instead of the japanese ones in japan because the chiefs at Konami thought the english voice acting was cool and a good addition for the rerelease), and since then only MGSV started to have a real effort (and investment, this one´s big since it looks there were some budget issues, right?) on making the english voice over. However, it was MGR the one who most rustled my jimmies with how cringe the voice acting was, not to mention the translation, and represents the worst aspects of this superficial rule of cool thinking.
>>462350262MGS is English based and always will be.So once again kill yourself.I'm done with this thread anyways, it's filled with people jerking off the Japanese and thinking it's the best.
>>462300848>We manage to avoid drowing!
>>462350765>The game was originally only made with English voices and they tell you to play it in English, therefore it was written in and intended to be played in English. Explain the fault in the logic.I don't know what to do with someone who fails to see how one thing is not following after another. What is the name of the logical fallacy here? Non sequitur?Someone help me out here because I give up.
>>462350262>you end up with an english script laced with "cool" swearing that wants to sound cool but is not enough self aware,If The Silver Case translation is even 50% accurate, Suda does have A LOT of swearing.
>>462304337>>462305009>>462304479How did you 3 stooges pass the fucking captcha with that kind of talk?
>>462350857>日本版もセリフがすべてイギリス人俳優による英語の音声で日本語の字幕が付くというスタイルになっていますSo all the Japanese subtitles are based off of the English lines, not vice versa.>>462351039>What is the name of the logical fallacy here?Why is it that everyone here who tries to site logical fallacies here is always an idiot that doesn't understand them? >Someone help me out here because I give up.I want you to help me out. Explain exactly what point you were trying to make, and where the fault in the logic is related to this specific argument started here>>462348470>Literally every game you listed was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESEThe Japanese subtitles are based off of the English lines. They didn't write the game in Japanese, translate it, and then have actors read those translated lines. You've provided no source for any part of the game creation process and instead just offered up baseless speculation while trying to disconnect the ideas of the game's script and the entire dubbing process, which is ridiculous. A non sequitur would be "You're an idiot who doesn't know anything about game dialog, therefore you're a bad driver."
>>462351039Another anon here. So your tl;dr is that the way that devs themselves perceive the game is "Jap text + Eng audio".
>>462350857>宮崎さんによる日本語のセリフ原案を元にした英語の脚本の制作Okay, the writing is originally done in Japanese. Can we finally end this stupid discussion?I don't even know how this got started. Someone seriously believes Miyazaki writes things in English? He doesn't even know English! Go look at an interview, he needs a translator. He can't write in a language he doesn't know.
>>462351869He gives them a rough draft in Japanese that they turn into English, and then the Japanese subtitles are based off of the English lines. The first finalized version of the script is English, it's an English script.
>>462351987Well, yeah? I don't think anyone was arguing it wasn't. The original argument started over what the lead language was, and apparently Miyazaki lays his ideas out in Japanese first. As you'd expect, given that he's Japanese.
I'm trying to parse through this whole conversation.But I found this and I figure it's worth sharing. Seems like Kaku is insane.https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1748556728/the-untold-history-of-japanese-game-developers/posts/860418
>>462351415Yes, for Japanese audiences.>>462351368Okay, I'll give it one last try.I already explained it here, >>462349781 just because only English voices are available doesn't mean it was written in English/the lead language was English, the director saying it's meant to be played in English doesn't mean it either. Again, I'm not saying it absolutely wasn't in this case, but you can't draw this definite conclusion from these facts, becasue as discussed earlier, English being the lead language is a very very recent thing and still very rare. It is entirely possible that the writers wrote it in Japanese, had someone translate it to English, and work from there.English being the lead language means that it was created originally in English during the creation process, and the Japanese version is translated from it.Again, unless someone provides definite proof, this is whole conversation is meaningless from this point on, unless you still don't understand what lead language means. And the burden of proof is just as much on you as everyone else in this case.
>>462352130>The original argument started over what the lead language wasincorrect>>462348470>was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESEThe final script was written in English first and the game is meant to be played in English. Some idiots who wanted to argue for the sake of arguing tried ignoring what the argument was actually about so they could pretend the original point of contention was "What language does Miyazaki use when making the game?">>462352207>doesn't mean it was written in English/the lead language was English,> the director saying it's meant to be played in English doesn't mean it either>saying the director literally telling you to play the game in English means the lead language was English is a non sequitur. Right then. You're an idiot who genuinely doesn't understand the words you're using.
>>462352297And I'm done, I feel stupid for wasting my time on you.
>2019>slobbering retards STILL haven't watched the Jeremy Blaustein interview https://youtu.be/5Sx7yttJm0I
>>462352384You're an idiot. Miyazaki made notes for the script in Japanese. From this, an English script was written, and then the Japanese lines were all based off of that English script. By what fucking metric was English not the lead language for the script? The Japanese subtitles were literally translations of the English script and not lines written by Miyazaki. You have no point, and you don't know what non sequitur means.
>>462300848Negro I'm not reading all that
>>462351194Yeah, but its different than no more heroes and killer 7 because there isnt voice acting and that changes things, when there are actors around, since that leads to impeovisation, I dont know if that is the explnation for the differences between dub and subsd in killer 7.And yeah, the silver Case has some swearing but that was arguably in good taste since some of it was inferred from Kusabi´s consistent foul language that meant to convey him as a hard boiled, gritty(if not simply vulgar)detective. Kusabi aside, I personally didnt find the language innapropiate for how the script read in japanese and somehow felt natural and nuanced from my perspective, meanwhile, in No more heroes, instead of a combination of self aware and silly caricature with serious subtleties, Travis is always sounding like he is taking a shit and I generally just dont like it since it takes the silly superficial parts very seriously and the subtlier dynamics(like over the top dramatic moments or anywhere when som concept is explored for the player) like they are some sort of incomprehensible japanese joke. TSA is cool since I found the script to read very Suda and occasionally conveys serious stuff(which people were talking about in threads, saying some thing felt more mature), or at least feels evocative with this melanchoic feeling behind everything, but I assure you that when theres a new full voiced No more heroes game, we could be very well having a reggression to the funny "cool" accents and the funny "cool" swearing.
>>462352479I don't listen to jews.
>>462300848english translation made mgs2 at least two times better.
>>462352516>The Japanese subtitles were literally translations of the English script and not lines written by Miyazaki.There's more writing in the game than just the dialogue. There's the overall plot, there's all the text that isn't spoken. And sometimes the translation to English does genuinely lose stuff. Like how Dark Souls has pyromancy that doesn't actually involve fire a lot of the time, because of a weird translation.
>>462352831>Okay, the script was written in English and then translated into Japanese but let me pull a bunch of what-if's out of my asshole to pretend I have a pointNo thanks.
>>462305009Look into it
>>462352683He's literally the reason MGS became a franchise
>>462352927That's not a what if though, it happened. They translated 呪術 as pyromancy, so in English you use pyromancy to breathe poison or turn into iron. It's pyromancy but it doesn't involve fire. Very strange. Unless you use the Japanese text in which case, oh, it makes sense.Also the game was still originally written in Japanese. Miyazaki started things off by writing in Japanese. I don't know why you're pretending that didn't happen.
>>462353183>Also the game was still originally written in Japanesethe games notes*I still don't know what point you're trying to make. The script was made in English before it was made in Japanese. The intended language of the game is English, for both the text and the dialog. This was the entire argument. The developers being Japanese and doing the ground work in Japanese won't change the fact that the actual game script was written in English first, and that they want you to play in English. You're arguing nothing for the sake of it.
Even if this person did make shitty translations, they're not what we ended up with in the final game...So, what are we seeing here? Something to bullshit people who forgot what the actual script was or was it just that her translation was recognised as bad and rewritten by someone more competent?
>>462351368>So all the Japanese subtitles are based off of the English lines, not vice versa.How are you this bad at reading? The Japanese script was written, then translated into an English script. Then, all the in-game text was translated into English, and while all this was going on, advice and suggestions were given by the translators to Miyazaki.The game was written entirely in Japanese. It was then translated to English, and some English speakers had a poorly defined role in terms of potentially advising some minor revisions to lines on the basis that they wouldn't make much sense in English, and these might have slightly influenced the final Japanese script. This doesn't mean the game was written in English, you braindead cunt.I have no idea where you're getting the idea that the Japanese subtitles are based off the English script. They're based off the fucking JAPANESE script, with potentially some minor changes based on recommendations from the translation editorial staff.
>>462353438>The Japanese script was writtenNo, a rough draft was written in Japanese, not a complete script. He gave notes and ideas to them, and they wrote an English script. He didn't hand them a Japanese script to have them convert it into English. Learn the difference between 原案 and 脚本.>I have no idea where you're getting the idea that the Japanese subtitles are based off the English script. They're based off the fucking JAPANESE script>日本版もセリフがすべてイギリス人俳優によるReading is hard, I know.
>>462353367My point is the creative minds behind the game are Japanese. The scriptwriters take Miyazaki's work and turn it into English, but they didn't come up with the game. He did. Or maybe him and some other Japanese guys, I don't know exactly who does what.Also if the game is meant to be played with English text then why isn't that always an option? Go back to Demon's Souls, it didn't even have a Western release at first. You think they put it out in Japan in the hope that maybe one day it'd get popular enough to be brought overseas so they could have the item descriptions in a language they didn't even understand? Yeah, probably not.
>>462353868>My point is the creative minds behind the game are Japanese.Which has fuck all to do with the actual argument. You wanted to argue something tangentially related that wasn't actually the topic at hand. Congratulations.
>>462353868Not him but untranslated games don't sell.
>>462353959No, that is the topic. It started off as what the lead language for games was. For From Software it's Japanese, no matter what language the voice acting is in.>>462353970Well, Demon's Souls did. It wasn't even going to get a Western release at first because they thought it was too hard, but then enough people imported it that they decided maybe they would give it one. Then the popularity just kept on rising.
>>462354157Demons was translated in japan.
>>462354157>that is the topicNo.>It started off as what the lead language for games was.The workers being Japanese won't change the immutable fact that the final script was written in English, and then translated. The argument was also "the game was not intended to be played in English" which you're conveniently ignoring so you can pretend that "lead language" means "the language the people making the game use commonly" and not "the language the game content was designed around".So again, congratulations on arguing about nothing like an idiot without making any points.
>>462354227Was it? Shit. All the text was English? I mean, I hadn't looked into it, I just assumed it was Japanese.That's really weird, why would they do that?
>>462353641>日本版もセリフがすべてイギリス人俳優による英語の音声で日本語の字幕が付くというスタイルになっていますThis doesn't mean what you think it means. Obviously, localisation companies are going to play up their involvement by using bullshit like 原案 and 脚本. Unless you've seen Miyazaki's draft first-hand, you can hardly make claims like this. Maybe it was 5 words jotted down onto a napkin and the entire game was made in English first by a localisation company, then Miyazaki came in and stole all the credit. Or, maybe it was a fairly detailed script and they just added some flavor text to the characters. Hell, maybe you're right and a solid 50% of the spoken dialogue was created by Frognation, and was translated back into Japanese for the sake of subtitles. You've still got the other 90% of text in the game that isn't spoken that was pretty blatantly written originally in Japanese. At best, you've got a minor influence, which is a far cry from your claims.
>>462354382.... it was translated from English to Japanese in japan
>>462354463>This doesn't mean what you think it means.Your fundamental misunderstanding and desire to pretend you know what you're talking about doesn't give you the point you think it does. The wording isn't even ambiguous. > localisation companies are going to play up their involvement by using bullshit like 原案 and 脚本Okay yeah, that's what those words mean but let's just ignore it because the localization company is lying and I need to pretend I'm rightNah, fuck off.
>>462348470>Literally every game you listed was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESEPlease show me the version of Resident Evil with Japanese VAs
>>462354343>The argument was also "the game was not intended to be played in English" which you're conveniently ignoringNo it wasn't. >>462347304 says Japanese is the master version. >>462348153 says Japanese is the lead language most of the time. >>462348297 misinterprets that as saying the games are meant to be played in Japanese, but that's not what the original argument was.You've been arguing against a strawman this whole time.
>>462354604Well, RE was definitely written in Japanese at first. You can tell because the translation is fucking awful. Definitely not going to make anyone think it was originally written by an English speaker.
>>462354721>misinterpretsExcept for the part where the person responds to two separate posts saying>Literally every game you listed was written in and intended to be played in JAPANESEand not "you misinterpreted what I said" meaning those two interpretations of his argument were correct, and you're the fucking idiot who misinterpreted his post. You're really good at arguing about literally nothing.
>>462300848Ok faggots>reposting from reddit>posting some random nigger without proof> Not posting anything about the plot and just saying it is wrong without you knowing what it isRemember to report these canadian niggers and to use the thing starting with s and ends with e.
>>462354861Yeah, but Mikami always intended for everything to be spoken in English, with there being no language options in the Japanese release.This actually lead to some isuses down the line, with the RE4 localization being completely different from the Japanese script in regards to Leon's character, which was supposed to be more like his character in the movies and in 6. Now thanks to that, we got retards like Jim Sterling who bitch about how Degeneration is bad because Leon's character is different, when it's actually sticking to the original Japanese.
>>462355003>>Yeah, but Mikami always intended for everything to be spoken in English,This is very different to what you think it implies. Mikami is awful at English. For him, making a game in English means making it sound "cool" and exotic.If I made a game, and decided every voice actor in my game should be Spanish, that doesn't make the game intended for Spanish audiences. It's intended for English speakers who like listening to Spanish gibberish. Now, Spanish people might well enjoy my game, and they might well laugh at the awful translation job I don't even notice. But it doesn't mean the game was made for them.You always make games for your own language first. If it sells well overseas, great, that's a cherry on top.
Fuck this gay-ass thread.
>>462343438>地の利を得たぞ!>I got the advantage of the earth!>地獄で会おうぜ、ベイビー>See you in hell, babyYeah, totally nothing wrong with how they translate to Japanese at all.
>post anything negative about a games translation/localization>industry shills swoop in and try to defend their shitty rewritesEvery time. These people really don't want you to draw attention to how incompetent they are.
>>462306369So people here like to think, which is what actually makes it one of the greatest examples of it.