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>ruins your meta

nothing personnel kids
>>
brain dead shit like ash greninja, hawlucha and regenerator ruin metas, not a highly customizable mon like lando
you could run into 5 different trainers using 5 different sets for 5 completely unique purposes, it's actually an incredibly GOOD thing for the meta
>>
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Brave Bird
>>
>>458704430
>2019
>people still play pokemon meta

golden age was DPPt, you are just beating a dead horse.
>>
>Not playing monotype
>>
>>458705864
>golden age was DPPt
>lmao suicide leads and tyranitar
gen 4 was shit
>>
>>458705279
RIP bravest of birds
shoot down in his prime
>>
>>458705864
I miss it bros. Still watch some Diamond/Pearl battles from back in the day. The powercreep from Gen 5 basically shitcanned most Pokemon.
>>
>>458705149
>fighting the same fucking pokemon on every team is good for the meta
>>
>>458706425
I miss him so much lads...
>>
>>458705864

>gen 4 meta
>Garchomp
>Weather
>Suicides
>Boilbliss

Yeah, sure man.
>>
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>>458705149
>It's an incredibly good thing that one singular Pokemon is good for the meta!
>It's not a bad thing at all, you just have to run him is all
>oh, and you of course have to run a counter for him, since everyone will be using him of course.
>and you gotta have a counter for that pokemon too! after all, your opponent will have it, since you will of course be running lando, and you can't have YOUR lando getting countered
>this is all very good for the meta though!
>>
>>458705149
>HAWLUCHA BAD
fucking retard
>>
Hey my dudes, haven't played since XY. How're OU and UU? Infested with those ugly new Legendaries and Omegas or w/e they're called?
>>
>>458706980
OU is literally The Landrous-T and Tapus Show
>>
>>458706843
>Weather
>Gen 4
Gen 5 was fucking weather hell
>>
>>458704430
Imagine having a meta for a kids bug collecting game
>>
>>458706843
Weather hardly existed.
Skarmbliss was life.
Gyarados with Electrivire too.
Man Pokemon really used to have some soul.
>>
>>458706980
Most megas aren't even viable.
>>
>>458706843
I have a feeling that Garchomp wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for fucking Sand Veil.
True, he would be a terror, but at least people could HIT HIM
>>
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>>458707062
>Tapus
Bleh.
>Landrous-T
Why couldn't Thundurus-T have been the good one, he's so much cooler.

>>458707397
Actually insane.

Also holy fuck I just checked the OU viability thread, my boy Reuniclus is there in A-. How does a slow mono-Psychic do that nowadays? And what the fuck is this C Rank? What kind of meta gives birth to a ranking like this?
>>
>>458707420
Pokemon is, in fact, a video game.
>>
>>458707315
>Electrivire
wow no
>>
>>458707621
which can also be discussed on /v/ :]
>>
>>458708479
based
>>
>>458707504
Reuniclus is stupid bulky and can trump setup with Acid Armor/Calm Mind and shut out games if played properly. Very good mon that pairs well with Toxic Spike support to get rid of dark types
>>
>>458704430
A mon that versitale and unpredictable shouldn't be that good at everything.
>>
>>458705864
>golden age was RBY
ftfy. All other metas sucked.
>>
>>458708479
Congratulations you played yourself
>>
>>458710168
>PSY
>SPECIAL
>>
>>458710040
Doesn't look like it's changed at all since BW. At a glance the meta doesn't really seem that weak to Psychic either. Are all the Special Walls dead or something? Or are the new 'mons just squishy HO setup fodder?
>>
>>458706606
>gen 6 had a bug where fly activated on first turn but not the second
>if you made an extra slow Fletchinder you were practically untouchable aside from priority
>if they still slipped some damage past you, you had priority Roost
>>
>>458710526
Special walls don't fucking matter when you're at +6 SpAtk with a layer of Toxic Spikes up. Very few things can come in on that combo, only ones being Mandibuzz, Bisharp and Alolan Muk.
>>
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There was never a good gen for competitive Pokemon, prove me wrong
>>
>>458710678
>+6 SpAtk with a layer of Toxic Spikes up
Yeah but that's pretty much true for any offensive Pokemon. Question is, how do you let base 30 speed get there without phazing?
>>
>>458710526
Reuniclus has enough bulk, recovery and Magic Guard to setup on special walls and break through.
What it fears are wallbreakers and Dark types, especially those with Taunt
>>
>>458711135
Mhm, but what exactly changed since the previous Gen that it went from UU to OU? Meta doesn't seem all that different
>>
>>458711348
More things to support it
>>
>>458710995
Phazers aren't all that common anymore and Taunt is easily seen coming from a mile away.
>>
>>458711413
>>458711467
Sounds like OU can't be all that bad this time around, I'll give it a whirl. Thanks
>>
>>458704430
just move the cunt to ubers lmao
>>
Gen 8 will release an ice type stealth rocks-sneaky stalagmites to remedy this
>>
>>458711348
Technically, it's still UU.
His thing is that he faces different threats in UU and OU, with better allies in OU.
https://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/reuniclus/
>>
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i always though using Legendaries was for sissies, why was tapus genies and all that shit allowed?
>>
Wheres my boy Zygarde
>>
>>458711657
Ubers is overloaded with legendaries
>>
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>there will never be a meta where the regis are good
>>
>>458711657
whether a pokemon is legendary and whether it is good is not nearly as clean cut as you might think. Literally every tier is full of legendaries now. Banning legendaries across the board would be chaos and you wouldn't end up better off for it since there are plenty of pokemon that are just as broken.
>>
>>458711638
Oh, seems like that's the case for a bunch of other stuff too. Dunno why OP is so mad about Lando if you can get away with fucking Reuniclus in OU then
>>
>>458711657
Only box mascot legendaries and mewtwo are in a higher tier. The rest have considerably lower BST
>>
>>458711657
Some legendaries are unironically bad/average (Articuno, Regirock. etc.)
>>
>>458711819
just like Garchomp on his debut gen right? i heard horror stories of him cuz i started putting attention to the competitive side only when XY started
>>
>>458711840
Because Lando fucking goes well with fucking EVERYTHING.
Lando's main problem is that he has too many sets which he does well in.
>>
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>goes over clean
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>>458711778
A lot of them are there by default tho, and most are unviable.
>>
>>458711930
Power creep has been pretty ridiculous, almost all of OU can be categorized into one of these four:
1. Ultra Beasts (e.g. celesteela, kartana)
2. Legendary Pokemon (e.g. tapus, genies)
3. Mega Evolutions (e.g. charizard or lopunny, also ash greninja)
4. Some defensive mon with a niche typing that makes it useful against the above three (e.g. toxapex, tangrowth)
There's a little other stuff here and there but since legendaries tend to have high stats and since high-stat mons tend to be high tier, OU is full of power creep mons.
>>
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>that Z-Conversion Porygon-Z
Look how they made my boy so beautiful
>>
>>458711930
not him but I started at gen 4 and yeah Chomp was insane and there were no fairies to stop him. The real insanity imo started with the weather wars in gen 5 which literally forced GF to nerf weather abilities
>>
Why does this poor animal have a huge curved piece of gross shit curling up out of its butt?

>>>/vp/
>>
>>458712203
Exactly.
>>
>meta
>children's game
>>>/vp/
>>
>>458707152
Sand was extremely prevalent in Gen 4
>>
The thing about landorus is ironically that it's NOT centralizing. It's easy to throw it onto any team but you don't really need to prepare for it at all, other than having some way of removing the rocks it'll get up. It's pretty strong but not super fast, its coverage isn't amazing, and while a great defensive pokemon it has no healing so it's gonna get chipped down. It's easy to throw onto a team but the pokemon that actually get banned are the ones where you have to either 1. use it, or 2. specifically dedicate a team slot to countering it, or even both 1 and 2.

People bitch about smogon banning things but then also bitch when smogon doesn't ban something.
>>
>>458712394
>People bitch about smogon banning things but then also bitch when smogon doesn't ban something.
Because they're shitters who don't understand the concept of centralization
>>
>>458712368
Only because there were no Drizzle or Drought mons in OU and Hail was shit
>>
>>458712123
>has its own tier
How does he do it?
>>
>>458712450
Yes, but point being sand was still a huge part of the meta, it was one of the most common themes/archetypes. Garchomp was already a monster and hiding behind a substitute in sand made it even worse.
>>
Post stupid strats
>doubles
>get wishiwashi and mew
>max defense and special defense evs on washi, max hp and transform on mew
>transform turn 1
>get 100/130/135 defenses with effectively 372 EVs
>mewashi won't even transform back
>>
>>458712394
> and while a great defensive pokemon it has no healing so it's gonna get chipped down
It has access to roost
>>
Remember that time where Showdown broke because of infinite stall Slowbro?
>>
>>458712617
If you've never played competitive pokemon, why are you even posting here?
>>
>>458712589
And I'm saying Gen 5 was the point where they sent weather into overdrive.
>>
>>458712617
if Landorus-T had roost it would be on literally every non-choice set
>>
>>458712725
At least gen 5 had different weather teams, it was just fucking sand every other match in gen 4.
>>
>>458711813
>good
>again
Aside from Regice and a few weird niche picks for Registeal, they were on average pretty fuckin bad, especially Regirock, which is probably one of if not the only legendary not named Phionne that is in PU tier.
>>
>>458712589
I remember struggling a lot against subsalac/SD chomp sets, but to my surprise yache berry worked quite well on it too, I would assume I finished it off with an Ice beam but nope it barely survives and goes for the revenge kill
>>
>>458712786
Gen 5 was really just rain, the other teams were markedly worse and sun in particular was garbo barely used in NU
>>
>>458712919
Once it gets setup it just sweeps your team, it was absurdly strong
>>
>>458712786
It's not like the teams were built around sand, it's just a side effect from Garchomp and the only thing that was really relevant to it was Tyranitar.
>>
>>458712982
ironically sun was good against rain specifically, since most sun teams packed a lot of grass mons that rain teams struggled to break, and ninetales matched up well with politoed 1v1 due to sunny day. Sand was just as prolific as rain in gen 5, and lots of mons like gastrodon and keldeo worked just as well if not BETTER on sand teams, especially as rain counters. In fact, Keldeo and Tyranitar formed a near perfect pair, since the only pokemon in gen 5 that could possibly stand up to Keldeo...
>lati@s
>jellicent
>celebi
>slowbro
>alakazam
... were easily trapped and killed by tyranitar's pursuit. The only pokemon I can think of that beat both Keldeo and Ttar is dry skin toxicroak.

Modern players might have forgotten just how powerful terrakion and keldeo were in gen 5, before fairies reigned in their power.
>>
>>458713312
>since most sun teams packed a lot of grass mons that rain teams struggled to break
You have no idea what you're talking about. Pic related. Gen 5 was rain dominating.
>>
>>458713312
that's true. gen 5 meta was ruled by fighting types and dragons, fairies were a necessity after all that.
>>
>>458713632
you do realize that torn-t was banned in gen 5, right?
>>
>>458713632
That's not even an OU pokemon, dipshit, obviously rain is the best weather if you're gonna ignore all the bans like swift swim w/ rain, but if you're gonna do that then why not just ignore smogon tiers entirely and have a whole team of mascot legendaries?
Not to mention this is a good example of a pokemon that's neutered by sun
>>
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What are your hopes and fears for Gen 8?
>>
>>458713937

>hopes
good game

>fears
everything

I will expect nothing and be let down
>>
>>458713783
>>458713831
It wasn't banned for a good part of gen-5 and this is how I know you niggas didn't play gen-5 meta game. For months this things destroyed the entire meta until it had to be banned away with a vote that barely passed.
Stop talking about shit you never experienced.
>>
>>458713937
>Delusions
Flying/Fighting Mega Staraptor with 140 Speed, 170 Attack.
They fuck up new ability design leading to Weather Wars 2.0 but with a different flavor
A cool OU bug type
More OU Dragons

>Expectations
Ugly legendaries becoming top tier OU
>>
>>458714293
>Ugly legendaries becoming top tier OU
>expectations
Might as well say certainty
>>
>>458713937
Online realtime gym leaders/elite 4 controlled by players. Give me a type theme and level caps and I will give these 10 year olds a run for their money for their first badge
>>
>>458714083
>rain was so dominating in gen 5!!!
>(for a few months)
goalposts moved
and the vote barely passed because it wasn't destroying the entire meta, it was just overcentralizing it. Not to mention it STILL became dramatically worse in sun. Sun teams ran steel types anyway because fire moves weren't super common in gen 5 outside of heatran, which was a pretty good switch-in to torn before BW2 gave it superpower.
Regular tornadus fell from OU to UU in gen 5 despite still being insanely fast and actually being STRONGER than torn-T, because it was uturn and regenerator that made torn T broken rather than rain hurricanes.
>>
>>458714395
There's a chance some designer drinks some rotten miso soup and accidentally designs a half decent one from the resulting food poisoning induced delirium.
>>
>>458714426
>>rain was so dominating in gen 5!!!
>>(for a few months)
I never said for a few months. From 2010 to 2013 when Tornadus got officially banned rain was rampant within the metagame. I'm not moving goalposts because I never stated "for a few months" faggot.
Learn to fucking read and stop adding shit I never typed. This is your second time doing this.
This is also how I know you're stupid. Torn-T has a huge speedboost and on top of that it has regenerator. It had NO COUNTER. The best defensive switch in was rotom-w which still couldn't take more than a couple of hits. Reg torn doesn't have the ability Regenerator like Torn-T does. This meant that Torn-T not only outsped a great portion of the meta, it was never punished for switching in and out. You could easy U-turn on anything or hard switch with no punishment to Torn-T on switch in. Reg torn isn't even a part of the discussion because of its stat distribution.
And this is how I know for a fact you never played gen-5 when it was out. This is how I know for a fact you're just a fraud talking about shit you know nothing about. It took until Kan 2013 for it to finally be removed.
You're a faggot, stop posting.
>>
Oldfag competitive autist who played in gen 3 (you know, the earliest good meta) here to remind you that babies whining about power creep starting in gen 5 should be ignored. Gen 4 was the power creep meta.

This is the same board that claimed LGPE would replace USUM for VGC. Stick to posting twitter caps, fellas.
>>
>>458714924
>LGPE would replace USUM for VGC
Did anyone outside of retards actually believe this
>>
>>458714995
Nah which is why it was so prevalent here.
>>
>>458705279
Thats not even the good edit
>>
>>458706471
I do. What about you though?
>>
>>458704430
Didnt incinroar replace it
>>
>>458714832
Politoed was the most used pokemon in gen 5 OU (in the months when it wasn't scizor), but if YOU actually played gen 5 you'd know that sand was almost as common, while sun and no-weather were quite common too.
I don't know why you're insisting I never played and that rain was so broken when it was barely the most used weather. While rain in a vacuum is the best, it forces you to use politoed which is a shitmon unlike ttar which is actually quite good. It also prevents you from using heatran (#6 most used despite the prevalence of rain) and forces you to beat steel types like ferrothorn using only fighting moves, which hurt you against mons like lati.
I remember when Torn T was legal, and I remember when they banned it. I also remember when deoxys S and Genesect were legal in OU.

>I never said for a few months.
>For months this things destroyed the entire meta
You learn to read. I know Tornadus T is better than Tornadus, I'm saying Tornadus-I was UU because hurricane spam became shitty as soon as they changed your weather, which happened all the time. Tornadus T was broken by merit of regenerator, and without it it would be UU. It's synergy with rain isn't even enough to get it to OU. The difference between 111 speed and 121 was not significant in gen 5, 121 let you outspeed certain slow scarfers and that's all

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-viability-ranking-mk-2.3599678/
>>
>>458711703
Ubers. Thousand Arrows and Zygarde-C are too good
>>
>>458706872
Supposedly the only recent Landorus-T is OU is because he is needed to check/counter a lot of Pokemons that are in OU.
>>
>>458704430
In VGC, pretty much. He managed to be even more cancerous than lando-t too since Incineroar has like a 97% usage rate.
Lanto-t is still going strong in OU with a 40% usage rate or something though, and Incineroar is in NU (never used tier). Not entirely sure what the difference is.
>>
>>458715771
Shit I meant to quote >>458715408
>>
Just run competitive Milotic next to your physical attacker, GG EZ
>>
Tfw I go online with pokemon that arent that bad but no one uses like drapion amd kill their try hard ass pokemon with sniper poison tail
>>
>>458715771
>>458715408
I think Incinroar only replaced him in doubles
>>
>always liked trick room
>never got an item to increase its duration or anything
such a shame
>>
>>458716002
Oranguru/Torkoal/Liligant core is apeshit. Gen 7 was great for TR, Stakataka alone is a monster.
>>
>>458715930
snibeti snab :DDD
>>
>>458716065
I could always made it work but it has many downs.
>torkoal
what
>>
>>458716124
>evasion
isn't that shif banned
>>
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>>458716413
acupressure picks a random stat
>>
>>458704430
>hydreigon is UU
>>
>>458712884
Articuno, Mesprit, and Regirock are all PU. Guzzlord and couple Silvally forms too if you count them. Regice, Regigigas, and most of the other silvally forms fell even further into Untiered, along with Phione.

Registeel's still kicking in RU.
>>
>>458715771
I look at singles and wonder how anyone can like it. In singles its sweep or stall with very little inbetween or creativity. In doubles its way more open. That min max bullshit doesnt work so the list of viable pokemon is massive and there are so many other variables and mechanics you can bring too the game. I geuinely wish the main games took the same route as the gamecube games where all trainer fights are doubles
>>
>>458716521
yes, and it was specifically banned along with moody for doing that back in dpp gen
>>
>>458716124
Lol with battle armor and black sludge that thing is 100% invincible
>>
>>458713937
>hopes
Some decently-sized dungeons and side areas to explore

>fears
alola 2
>>
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>>458716124
>>
>>458716330
Torkoal has Drought + Eruption. Under TR, Torkoal uses Eruption and then Oranguru uses Instruct, so you get another Eruption. Alternatively Liligant + After You for speed.

It is legitimately nuts and the most fun I've had in gen 7. The firepower is insane.
>>
>>458716745
We dont play fagon rules
>>
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>>458716124
>>458716790
>>
>>458716413
The evasion you get from acupressure isn't.
>>
>>458716124
>>458716779
>>458716790
>>
>>458716779
Clear Smog
Haze
Roar
Circle Throw
Whirlwind

You guys are bad at pokemon
>>
>>458716879
>not flying rotom with balloon for maximum flying action
>>
>>458716920
showderp memesets prey on bad players
>>
>>458716821
Oh
>doubles
I never played doubles but that does sounds like the place trick room can shine
>>
>A completely bastardised facsimile where they ban anything they don't like being in any way representative of the game
These are grown men tearing apart a children's game because they don't want to play anything else. I mean for fuck sake half the time they can't even program the mechanics of the game correctly.
>>
>>458716864
based
>>
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>>458716940
FUCK YOU EARTHQUAKE
>>
>>458717023
a ridiculous number of doubles teams bring toed+swift swim and/or trick room for speed control. TR rain in doubles is EXTREMELY common.
>>
>>458717023
Well if you're into singles, get an attack boosting Stakataka and go to town. Its the GOAT TR sweeper for singles.
>>
>>458705279
Disappointed that he's not brave bird type
>>
>>458706872
that's why most people run the lando set that checks other lando sets as he is, of course, his own best counter lamo
>>
>>458716920
It's showderp, if you let someone set up to that point you only have yourself to blame.
One person got an unbroken win streak with a black sludge shedinja
>>
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>>458716974
It's been a hot minute since I went to /vp/, do they still do showderp?
>>
>>458716940
>>458717137
>Arceus-Flying named Arceus-Steel
Fucking showderp man
>>
>>458715737
If Magnezone could learn every TM, it, too would check a lot of Pokemon in OU. Namely, every Steel type who can't kill it before it moves. That would still be fairer than the genie because at least Magnezone gets locked into one of its moves.

Is this a false equivalence? I can't even tell anymore.
>>
>>458717394
They do, but it seems slow these days.
>>>/vp/38312123
>>
>>458717137
*arrows you down*
Nothing personnel
>>
>>458717278
I love running HP Ice Lando, its a fucking blast to counter their shitty cookie cutter sets.
>>
>>458717142
>max attack min speed beast boosted trick room gyro ball
oh fuck
>>
>>458713937
Look at what they did to my boy
>>
Are these games even made with competitive play in mind?
>>
>>458717451
>wtf why isn't my fighting/ground attacks effective
>>
>>458717504
Reminder that both /vp/ and /v/ claimed Stakakataka was trash prior to launch and for weeks after.
>>
>>458704430
>pokemon competitive meta
yes i too enjoy one shotting each others pokemon with 4x weaknesses, busted moves, broken abilities, and retardedly designed megas.
>>
>>458717473
If you have double flying you should be immune to thousand arrows
>>
>>458717623
You're just mad because you're bad, bro
>>
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>>458717504
The funny part is that Stakataka's base defense is so high it has to run a lonely nature and a subpar defense IV for beast boost to raise its attack instead
>>
>>458717451
Speaking of, their way of balancing random battles by changing mon levels should be applied to regular battles as well. Say, you have to shave 10 levels per tier, so you can, say, use a lv 60 Uber in NU among lv 100s.
>>
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>>458717451
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>>458717451
>That screencap where someone fell for it
God I wish I had it but I don't know where all my showderp images went
>>
>>458717762
I don't get it
>>
le sneaky pebbles
>>
>>458717875
Shedinja has 1 HP. Black sludge deals damage to you every turn.
>>
>>458717762
I hope specs Weedle is still a thing.
>>
Love when they butcher a Pokemon then sneer at how shit it is in their descriptions
>>
>>458706546
yep
even if it was reborn in some sense, for me, Pokemon died when Gen V arrived
>>
>>458705942
Monotype really is the only true way to play these days. Everything else is brain-dead copy-paste, but with Monotype there's an open variety of what a player can go up against, and it's especially satisfying to be at a type-disadvantage and pull an underdog story.
>>
>>458710819
Garchomp is countered by every Water type with a speed faster than 102.
Therefore 4 was good.
>>
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>>458704430
What a mistake
>>
>>458711657
it is, but smogonfaggots will try and convince you otherwise
using any legendaries outside a legendary-dedicated battle is cancer
>>
>>458718683
Even meme legendaries like Regis?
>>
>>458714924
Ignoring legendaries, Gen IV's only powercreep was Garchomp
>>
>>458712368
It was extremely prevalent in both gens considering the only viable weather setter was Tyranitar since Sand Stream had to exist for some reason. Gen 5 actually had the right idea by adding more passive weather setters that weren't box legendaries since they had to address the mistake of adding Sand Stream to an already godlike Pokemon eventually. The perma-weather nerf should've came in Gen 5 as well though.
>>
>>458718841
>what is heatran

>>458711657
legendary status doesn't make a pokemon good is the thing, it usually does but not there's plenty of pseudolegendary and legendary shitmons
>>
>>458717997
But it's immune to poison
>>458718518
Garchomp had no counters
>>
>>458712648
rip funbro
also rip shoedrip ;_;
>>
>>458718894
Hippowdon was everywhere in gen 4
>>
>>458718841
>forgetting Specsmence
>>
>>458707504
aggron is great on stall, really deserves to be higher than C
araquanid is a good webs setter but webs are niche
azu has an ok belly drum set and a cool perish trap set
no idea why buzzy is still ranked post zygarde
crawdaunt is strong as fuck
Ditto is ditto
mega chomp needs to move up, cool mixed breaker
gengar is pretty shit now, blace is better despite being slower
kommo-o is pretty solid as an offensive SR setter, should be higher than C
non mega latias is garbage, should drop
mega mane shouldn't even be ranked
mantine is a fine bulky water
mimikyu could probably drop a bit but it's fine
moltres is actually ok on stall
muk has gotten worse and worse but it's there if you hate ttar but want pursuit
nidoking is stronk and has bonkers coverage, the sub set is ok
qwilfish is alright on rain
see araquanid for ribombee
skarm is a steel type that can't check lele and whatnot so it dropped like a rock
thundy isn't fast enough and it's tough to justify any electric type over koko

any questions?
>>
>>458718936
Shedinja is not immune to any status effect. Poison, burn, and sneaky pebbles are the number 1 ways to remove Shedinja.
>>
I think if a poke has a weather-setting ability, its effects should persist as long as mon is out. When the mon is sent out a counter starts, if it switches out before it ends everything is as it is now, if it stays on the field after the counter the weather is switched off the instant it switches.
>>
>>458719187
So why give your pokemon an item that's going to kill it?
>>
>>458707504
Can't wait for Skarm to lie in BL hell for the entirety of Gen 8
;_;
>>
>>458716668
>I look at singles and wonder how anyone can like it
because it didn't used to be like that
the balance got upset and the people who continued playing sunk to the lowest common denominator and spoiled the fun for everyone else
>>
>>458718920
>heatran
A legendary
>>
>>458719385
To give the champ a hard time.
>poor anon never visited showderp during its prime time
>>
>>458718936
>Garchomp had no counters
that people used
it had plenty though
Starmie, Slowbro
>>
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>>458719427
Tell me about it, bro
>>
>>458704430
OU is just psuedo-Ubers
UU is the new OU
NU and below is where you can pull really fun strategies.
>>
>>458719521
starmie wasn't a counter, it could revenge kill it and force it out but you're not switching starmie into an eq
slowbro was actually good though
>>
>>458718920
>there's plenty of pseudolegendary and legendary shitmons
no there isn't
>>458719084
>gen III mon
>gen III item counterpart
>>
>>458719385
It's how showderp works.
There's a champ
Anons give the champ mons that he MUST use, champ then tries to win with said team.
Obviously there are trolls that give the champ shitmons to fuck with him.
>>
>>458719651
>switching into
Skarmory then
Bronzong
almost anything with levitate
inb4 Fire Blast
>>
>>458719651
Slowbro gets creamed by Tyranitar
>>
>>458719385
Showderp is a long running series of threads on /vp/ where six retards decide on a team that a champion (someone who claims the role of playing with said Pokemon) must play with and try as hard as they can to climb in ranking on Showdown. People usually give the champion shitty or gimmicky sets either because the champ is shit (usually after champ calls for a new team after being a faggot in the previous battles) or they just want to clown around.
>>
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>>458719617
>all of things that can stop staraptor are in OU
>without them around it can rampage in UU, so it's stuck in BL
>despite numerous OU mainstays falling to UU, staraptor remains in BL

It's amazing, in a sad kind of way
>>
>>458718790
>200 base stat
yep
no exceptions
>>
>>458719835
>garchomp
>staying against physically defensive walls or anything immune to earthquake
>>
>>458719695
>no there isn't
all the regis
all the gen 4 lake faggots
2/3 of the gen 1 birds
shit even the gen 2 dogs can't compare the the minmaxed shit we got in later gens
>>
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>>458704430
>ice beem
>>
>>458719835
Fire Fang
>>
>>458720139
>predicts your ice beam and switches
>>
>>458705279
Rest in Peace sweet child
>>
>>458719695
>no there isn't
Tell that to the likes of regice, regigigas, articuno, guzzlord, mesprit, regirock, phione, and technically silvally.
Also shit, I didn't know there was a tier below PU now. It doesn't even have a name, it's just called "below PU". Poor regice, regigigas, phione, and silvally. Imagine being that much of a failure of a legendary.
>>
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>>458720239
It's hard as fuck to hit but when you do that x4 icebeem feels good.
>>
>>458719835
check
>if it gets a free switch in, it can win 1v1 against a pokemon, but it usually can't switch in to an attack
>example, mega diancie checks keldeo
counter
>it can switch in to any of a pokemon's common moves and then either beat or phase it
>example, ferrothorn counters kingdra
>>
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Landorus-T is for incels, based boys use the patrician's Ground/Flying Pokemon
>>
>>458720262
The name is officially "untiered"
>>
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>>458719975
this dumb mushroom has a bst of 460 and has been a higher tier than regice every game since their debut
>>
>>458720367
based but not really the same niche
>>
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>>458704430
>accidentally put ice cubes in his drink
>"Landorus, come back!"
git gud
>>
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If you want to see how bad power creep has gotten, just look at this. Look at that stat spread. It's something a teenager would come up with for his first "totally balanced" fakemon. Yet despite that bullshit IT'S NOT EVEN OU. Actual modern OU is made out of monstrosities who spit on puny bugs like Mega-Beedril.
>>
>>458719863
>there's a counter for a counter
wow, who would've thunk?
>>
>>458720402
>only niche now is spore since kartana outclasses it
>banished to BL
>>
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>Leading with Shell Smash Cloyster
More people fall for it than I thought they would
>>
>>458720402
so?
that "dumb mushroom" has a 100% accuracy sleep-inducing move
>>
>>458716668
>That min max bullshit doesnt work so the list of viable pokemon is massive
>>
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This is the average gen 7 OU Pokemon. Say something nice to him!
>>
>>458720661
damn dude you beat some guy playing a NU tier team
>>
>>458720473
or maybe because the Mega gimmick doesn't do enough for Pokemon by being limited to one per team---so it's easy to be outclasssed even among the outclassers
>>
>>458720665
so being legendary isn't the end-all of being good, retard
an intelligent thing to do would be to ignore "legendary" status and look at a mon in the totality of its worth
Which is what smogon does
Every tier has legendaries. A blanket ban on legendaries wouldn't make the game any more balanced or interesting. In fact it would make it less interesting because you suddenly lose things like terrains which make the game more tactical
>>
>>458720697
FLAMETHROWER
>>
>>458710168
>Teach Mewtwo Amnesia
>HAHA SWEEP

Or my favorite
>Toxic
>Wrap

Good bye.
>>
>>458704430
>Competitive Pokemon
your first mistake
>>
>>458720697
I like his HP and special defense!!!!
>>
>>458720697
he and his ilk helped me quit Pokemon so that I could move on with my life!
thanks Ultra Faggots!
>>
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>>458720771
>you suddenly lose things like terrains which make the game more tactical
>terrains
>tactical
>>
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>>458720689
That's because the official tournaments are double battles. The list of Pokemon that are viable and also have doubles synergy with five other Pokemon is significantly shorter than just the list of viable Pokemon.
>>
>not using the Pokemon you like and making teams that fit their strategies
Shameful
>>
>>458720697
A priority fire-type move when?
>>
>>458720473
Mega beedrill HAD to be built like that though because it's sub-400 BST early game trash

It's only got 100 points to spend to become something that can viably compete for a team with other behemoth megas, so it's perfectly fair to reallocate some points to more important areas

Compare that to something like mega salamence, which is so inherently broken that it could have spent all 100 of that extra BST fucking anywhere it wanted and still get banned to ubers
>>
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>>458720787
>toxic
>wrap
>leech seed
don't remind me
>>
Does anyone have that collage of a Simisear shitting all over someone?
>>
>>458720473
Isn't this balanced out by the fact you can only have one mega per team?

I fucked around with showdown during gen5 even though I never played the actual game. Made a team that seemed to devour the meta at the time. Don't really remember everything except a scarfchomp to cleanup, a Klefki to abuse parafusion, whatever the ghost jelly was for scalding, and probably a ferrothorn for spikes/stealth rock. I guess it was a stall team with Garchomp to wipe up at the end. Can't remember who I mega'd though.. I think it was Gengar before he got b&, can't recall after.
>>
>>458720771
>so being legendary isn't the end-all of being good, retard
except Legendaries are typically made to be a cut above the rest of all Pokemon
accepting even one leads to a slippery slope which led to Ultra Beasts being considered acceptable OU material in Gen VII all because Heatran was considered acceptable back in Gen IV.
You're a frog in a pot of hottening water, you dumb little shit.
>>
>>458720923
So basically you proved his point
>>
>>458721025
>Mega Gengar
Can you outplay the coinflip?
>>
>>458720930
if you defend Gen VII you cannot in good faith defend this position
>>
>>458721025
>Isn't this balanced out by the fact you can only have one mega per team?
Nah, these days you have normal mons which are straight-up stronger than Megas. Tapu Lele for example is a straight upgrade over Mega-Gardevoir. Plenty of viable teams don't use megas at all.
>>
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>>458721032
Oh, I'm retarded. I'm not that guy and didn't even read the rest of the chain. Yeah, I agree with him, then.
>>
>>458721025
Scald is gay and part of what helped kill Pokemon
>>
>>458720473
A Pokemon like that would most likely be OU if they weren't a Mega evo.
>>
>>458721029
banning legendaries isn't gonna magically make volcarona and heatmor equally viable. The gap between them is just as vast but now there's less stuff that's about equal to volcarona in power, and less stuff that's about equal to heatmor in power

refusing to use a pokemon because of its in-universe lore is retarded. Refusing to use them based on base stats also cuts out ultra beasts, megas, pseudo legendaries, and a good number of tier 3 evolutions.
I like legendary pokemon. If anything I like them BECAUSE some attempt is made to make them good. Furret isn't just shitty, it's UNINTERESTING.
>>
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How the fuck is this thing in Ubers?
>>
>>458721121
I really really dislike SuMo.

Like I literally play(ed) with my friends where we all made fun teams of Pokemon we liked and thought were interesting. I have no interest in competitive.
>>
>>458721112
Hey man, I ran Klefki with leftovers. I live and die by the coinflip.
>>
>>458720742
or maybe because the transparent, mindless minmaxing isn't quite as totally balanced as Mega Mega Beedrill
>>
>>458721123
>Plenty of viable teams don't use Megas
Like what? Not running a Mega Mon is basically gimping yourself for no reason especially when the Mega pool is so large and accommodating for multiple team archetypes.
>>
>>458721290
*uses kings shield on your ground move*
*then tanks it with 150 base defense, while still hitting you with 150 base attack the same turn*

I know you can bypass kings shield with will-o-wisp and stuff but king's shield makes its stats functionally very insane.
>>
>>458721185
Run aromatherapy then fag
>>
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>>458721121
Not him, but I beg to differ. This team does really well and doesn't really have any Pokemon with huge presence in the meta.
>>
>>458721290
By being a meta warping 50/50 piece of shit. I'm glad it left and took pheromosa with it, that whole period with both of them in OU was awful
>>
>>458721427
Don't forget
>*lowers your attack by 2 stages*
>*gets an extra turn of leftovers*
>>
>>458721290
simply too strong for OU
>>
>thread that shouldn't even be in /v/ goes on fucking forever and pollutes the entire goddamn board with its presence
THIS IS WHY 4CHAN MADE A GODDAMN POKESHIT CONTAINMENT BOARD, CHILDREN.

>>>/vp/
>>
>>458704430
The best Meta is Gen 3 UU
Fight me
>>
>>458721558
But how? When the shield is up then sure its hard to kill but it can't attack. When the shield is down then it hits hard but it's not bulky in sword mode and it's not that fast.
>>
>>458721634
>any meta before the physical/special split
yikes!
>>
>>458721574
>Some asshole is genuinely mad that videogames are being discussed

Lamo, look at this guy
>>
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>>458721574
/vp/ is for everything Pokemon, like the anime and card game. While the games are discussed there, too, they can also be discussed here.

>I'VE COME INTO A THREAD ABOUT SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE AND NOW I'M UPSET SO YOU GUYS HAVE TO LEAVE
Yes, you're doing a very good job of looking like the one who's not a child here.
>>
>>458721574
>>458718818
go back to your quality videogame threads
>>
>>458721651
like the other guy said, you can tank the hit in shield form and attack in sword form in the same turn, then turn back to shield with priority next turn
he effectively has 150 base in every stat
>>
>>458721512
I recall that Poke being one of the reasons my team was so successful. It and whatever that fucking fire bird was were so goddamn prevalent, and my team ate them up.
>being on the bandwagon instead of countering the bandwagon
it's not hard to be good at videogames
>>
>>458721667
The Physical special split is a fucking meme, pokemon was just fine before it, and it encouraged creativity
>>
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>>458721776
delusional
>>
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>>458721776
Now THIS is nostalgiafagging
>>
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>tfw don't care about comp and just raise my bros for Battle Tree
Got a Gardevoir I've been using since Pearl
>>
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>>458717825
this it?
>>
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>>458721791
80% less fug
>>
>>458721939
>png
>black where transparency should be
Phoneposter detected.
>>
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>>458721013
>>
>giving shit about a pokemon "meta"

just use your favorites :^)
>>
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>>458721987
That's how the image was posted in the first place, senpai.
>>
>>458719617
>the eternal BL
>>
>>458720615
Man fuck BL. so many pokemons are in there that can't be used in UU
BL as its own playable tier when
>>
>>458721904
In Gen VI I couldn't stand the Battle Chateau when those fuckers were so blatant about hard-countering your team and some of their usual RNG reliant Pokemon that use things like Brightpowder.
>>
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>>458721998
>Grass Knot is Super Effective
What the fuck? I had to google Groudon's typing because I always thought he was part Fire.
>>
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>>458721998
Thanks, Anon.
>>
>>458722194
That was one of his biggest drawbacks for years, ORAS fixed it though
>>
>>458722248
ORAS also made him by far the Strongest Uber pokemon
Mega Fug is so fucking broken he's even banned in Ubers
>>
>>458721776
The old way physical/special moves worked was just fucking stupid. Not only was it fucking impossible to figure out in-game which types did which kind of damage but the entire concept of the system just invalidated so many Pokemon and would've done the same for future type combinations. Sneasel is the most glaring example of the flaw of not having a phys/spec split.
>>
>>458722194
This is only true for the newer primal evolution, where it's Ground/Fire and gets sunlight that evaporates water attacks.
>>
>>458721776
>encouraged creativity
You were a mistake even before you were born
>>
>>458722248
>>458722335
Why the fuck would they make him rise from magma and cause the sun to get more intense if he's ground?
>>
>>458722318
>the pokemon who broke ubers and made it an actual tier
>>
>>458721259
>banning legendaries isn't gonna magically make volcarona and heatmor equally viable
what it will certainly do is level the playing field to the point where the divide between perfectly viable and less viable is not so dismally huge as it has turned out because of allowing them in non-Ubers tiers. It's not simply because there are more Pokemon now that Showdown has expanded from only having 3 tiers.
>refusing to use a pokemon because of its in-universe lore is retarded
that's not what it is
>Refusing to use them based on base stats also cuts out ultra beasts, megas, pseudo legendaries, and a good number of tier 3 evolutions.
no. pseudo-legendaries and third forms are fine.
>I like legendary pokemon.
which is fine. I like legendary Pokemon as well.
But I understand that they outclass so many other Pokemon so as to force trainers who like those "shitmon" as well to use them less or not at all, ultimately diminishing team diversity and spoiling the fun of battles by reducing the pool of Pokemon you'll see being used
>>
>>458721904
The fuck
>>458722194
>>458722248
>>458722335
Grass Knot is still going to do a lot of damage because of his weight
>>
>>458721998
I love shoedrip
>>
>>458722332
Sneasel is an example of how shit Johto was by making so many functionally useless Pokemon
Grim reminder, just in case you wanted to fault Gen III somehow.
>>
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>>458722157
>Something in a battle facility has Bright Powder
>Everything that doesn't have infinite accuracy now refuses to land.

i keep telling myself each gen i'll clear out the battle facilities this time but it keeps fucking happening
>>
If you call Rayquaza "Fug" you have braindamage and a small dick
>>
>>458722516
My point was that it was super effective, you mong.
>>
>>458722332
What about gengar? The poor thing had 65 attack, 130 special attack, and two physical STABs until gen IV
>>
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Fuck the meta.
Why can't we have challenging PVE where I can just make a decent team of non-legendary pokemon and win just by looking for an effective strategy without looking things up.
The battle tower is fucking gay and lazy, give me back my battle frontier where I can play Pokemon roguelike, pokemon randomizer, pokemon survival, pokemon faggot friendship battle simulator and have an epic showdown at the battle dome with my main boys.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>
>>458722076
have sex
>>
>>458722632
Its fucking hard designing tough pokemon battles that could be beatable with your favorite teams, which is what Gamefreak wants its games to offer
>>
>>458722525
All of them were before the Gen IV split you mong
>>
>>458722714
>which is what Gamefreak wants its games to offer
Not him, but they sure have a funny way of showing that that's what they're trying to do.
>>
are rotation battles fun?

I took on the battle tower rotation and I don't know if it was fun because it's fun or because Mega Slowbro is retarded and can't lose.
>>
>>458717504
>the one time the "it's good in Trick Room" meme isn't a meme
Based
>>
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>>458721185
eat my ass nigga
>>
>>458722525
Functionally useless pokemon are good for pokemon. The "everything has to be great" shit introduced from gen 4 on is killing the series. I don't want to be catching a full party of OU/UU sweepers on fucking route 2. I want to throw away my garbage pidgeotto and bedrill when I first find a wild fucking lapras because holy shit a fucking lapras.
>>
>>458722834
Yeah spinda and luvdisc were well-liked too
>>
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>>458722449
Because it's the earth pokemon. Earthquakes, tectonic plates, mountains, continents, volcanoes, that sort of thing. Kyogre was probably given the rain inducing ability first, so Groudon was given the sun ability to match. Making it ground/fire would make it quadruply weak to its rival with no advantage, so they made it just ground instead. Primal Groudon can negate water with its unique weather, so it got to be fire/ground like intended.
>>
>>458722808
If I could only eat milotic's ass
>>
>>458722904
Ironically Kyogre was king of Ubers before Gen 6
>>
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>>458722834
>The "everything has to be great" shit introduced from gen 4 on is killing the series
Dude, 90% of the Pokemon from every gen are unusable. Fuck, most things in Gen 7 are too slow to do anything before they get swept, and too fast for Trick Room.
>>
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Reminder that Battle Spot and VGC are miles above Smogon ruleset in quality


>Evasion is banned despite 25+ counters to evasion
>Only one pokemon allowed to sleep at a time
>MORE THAN ONE OF EACH FUCKING ITEM IN A TEAM AT ANY TIME
This is the bullshit that enables stall teams
>>
>>458722714
>Its fucking hard designing tough pokemon battles that could be beatable with your favorite teams
no it isn't
>>
>>458722620
He was able to utilize an amazing move pool due to Elemental Punches being given out like candy to every Pokemons move pool.
>>
>>458722332
Aside from memes like ghost being physical, it was fairly easy to figure out what did what damage, but it did make a lot of pokemon suffer from lack of decent STAB for no reason. The split was nothing but a good thing.
>>
>>458723043
one item is fine, otherwise you're just stacking sashes, balloons and god knows what else
>>
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>>458723043
>banning evasion enables stall teams
>>
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>>458722579
>Try out the Battle Tree
>Team gets swept by a Sableye who has Brightpowder and keeps landing critical hits
>>
Imagine playing in a ruleset where a team can have 2 leftovers
Jesus
>>
>>458722754
no shit?
your point?
>>458722808
what a gay thing to say
>>458722834
then you have no understanding of how to actually balance Pokemon so you never have shit
>>
>>458722879
As I said, there's tons of shit pokemon in the first few gens, and even a couple in 3, but its basically phased out by later gens where every new pokemon is even better than the last. It created a laughable arms race of power creep that is laughable to the point where, for example, the absolute worst moves to create a burn status are fire type moves like ember and flamethrower that were once the only source of the status, and you'd be better off using a water or ice type move from gen 4+ to inflict burn because they have way higher odds, perfect accuracy, and also deal more damage outright.
>>
>>458723043
>25+ counters to evasion
I don't believe you.
>>
>>458722834
>throwing pidgeotto away for something worse
reminder that lapras in untiered.
it doesn't even have the usage for pu lmao
>>
>>458721123
Tapus are legendaries though.
>>
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>>458704430
I like Miltank.
>>
>>458704430
Competitive pokemon is for retards.
Catch pokemon you like
Play with friends.
Stay off online except to trade
Actually enjoy your life
>>
>>458723106
Use Taunt
100% Accuracy moves
Unaware
Hone claws
Etc...
>>458723167
https://youtu.be/Oj4qQUMs-gI
>>
>>458723202
Lapras is OU because it can survive hyperbeam and is favored in both the tauros and snorlax matchups.
>>
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>>458723229
I'm not saying that there aren't counters for evasion, I'm asking how banning evasion, a would-be staple of stall teams, encourages stall teams.
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>>458704430
pokemon isn't a balanced game meant for competition.
if it wasn't lando it would be the next meme pick in line, just like literally the entire balancing history of smogon has been.

give it up. play an actual competitive game competitively. pokemon will never reach a moderately state unless they start tinkering with fundamental mechanic interactions, tiering or move clauses is never, ever going to be enough.

then again, i'd be arguing to an autistic community to stop being autistic, so what can you do.
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>>458723202
thanks for reminding me that mega pidgeot exists, those no-guard hurricanes must be lots of fun
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>>458723382
Pelipper is Arguably worse in that regard due to hurricanes that never miss and also Boosted Hydropumps that never miss
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>>458723301
>Gen 1 Meta
lol ok
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>>458723434
>DRIZZLE PELIPPER
why
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>>458723229
>video
oh, this is a bait post
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>>458723487
Sets up Mega-Swampert, Gyarados, and Kingra for sweeps in monotype ;^)
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>>458723487
Drizzle Pelipper with Uturn thats why
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>>458705279
i haven't followed comp pokemon since gen 6, what happened to /ourguy/?
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>>458723229
>Just pack shit moves or specific abilities in all your teams to counter this specific strategy
Yeah thanks
Reminds me of when I was playing 1v1 on showdown and I was forced to bring someone with mold breaker so I didn't have to deal with the fucking arons.
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>>458723579
>>458723582
No, I mean JUST WHY DOES HE HAVE TO EXIST
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>>458723452
It remained on the underused banlist in Gen 2 and 3 even if it never cracked into the OU meta. And then Gen 4 "improved the metagame" and brought it into NU until it eventually dipped into Untiered.
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/v/ I have a confession. I think I prefer the card game to the mainline games now.
Should I be worried?
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>>458723584
Gale Wings now only works when the Pokemon is at full HP.
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>>458723582
U-Turn and Volt Switch are the bane of me. I hate them so fucking much.
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>>458723652
No, that sounds about right.
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>>458723652
>Should I be worried?
In general, no. For your wallet, yes. Trading card games are a curse worse than EA microtransactions.
>>
>born in '94
>first game was Red
>Emerald came out in '04
>D/P came out in '06
>I should technically be a G3 / G4 baby
Feels bad, but that explains why I was so terrible at Pokemon as a kid.
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>>458723347
because stalling makes you 100% lose once you lose the evasion buildup, as opposed to stalling being a pro/cons tactic otherwise.
in an evasion-ok meta, 6 hardhitters risky comp relying heavily on switch prediction is the only thing that wins. everything else unfolds into a time tie, time outs, or withdraws.
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>>458723652
Its arguably-- scratch that, DEFINITELY more balanced than the mainline game and other cardgames like Magic and >>>>>>Yu gi oh
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>>458723649
I'm sorry your favorite pokemon got shit on because of the split while others got improved
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>>458723652
I spent more time playing the TCG game on the GBC than I did playing RBY or GSC. You're not a freak, you're just gifted.
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>>458723624
GF decided to recreate the prince and the pauper with politoed and pelipper
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>>458722714
I don't think it is, gym leaders purposely hold back against you by having small sized teams and not fully evolved pokemon. The game could be perfectly constructed to have you go on an adventure and on the side present you with gym leaders that you could tackle later on if they are too high level for you.

Because the games have followed always the same strict structure this has gotten stale, not only stale but worse because the games are easier than ever. The games should not be easier, the games should be more transparent about its systems, give more options to grind pokemon so I can train more of them if needed, more options to get a better version of a pokemon I want (which is something ORAS did at least).

Sun/Moon followed a different path, and it kinda works, I can't really say if it was harder as a result because for that game I did an autism monotype run and I know at least for me it was way harder than I expected. And I saw, and I felt how great it is when the game is hard and I get my ass kicked and have to think back, and consider my MTs and what can I introduce to my team, you end up learning more about the game in a natural way, and not because you looked up what bullshit strategy is the most effective to cheese through it.
Sun/Moon also, by introducing trials, it brought something really interesting that mixes pokemon lore with challenge through gameplay. You go to the pokemon habitat, learn about it, and fight it, often in non-predictable ways and you get much more out of it than from the stale-ass formula from forever ago.

There is something very nice about the pokemon spin off games and even the anime, even if detective pikachu is a garbage game for babies, you see Pokemon in their habitats doing unique things and you not just learn about it from a line of text in the Pokedex. Sun/Moon proves that this can work both ways and implement it in the gameplay.
>>
question: why are there so many blacks playing competitive pokemon?
is it a circlejerk thing, or are there genetic preference reasons behind it?

if you are black, what pushed you to play competitive pokemon?
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>>458723865
Question
Try harder next time
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>>458723746
You seriously don't know how stall actually works, do you
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>>458723841
I'd love an alternate route choice where you can fight gym leaders in an underground Pokemon league who go much harder on you.
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>>458723353
The smogon community has done well enough to provide an informative and competitive game. I haven't played since BW showdown I guess, but getting rid of the most obnoxious shit (sleep, accuracy-lowering moves etc) and formulating a fair-ish set of tiers that allow for a variety of gametypes (including competitive contexts to use your favorite 'mons, no matter how shitty). I didn't fuck with anything besides standard OU, but it was fun coming up with counters to the meta, trying new things, etc, and it skipped ALL the bullshit that an actual pokemon cartridge would entail to get to the same level of gameplay, which is to say, basically/absolutely unfeasible.
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>>458723746
Stall teams aren't the same as defensive teams, you fucking retard.
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Since Sword and Shield will be the first console games in a long time, could we for once be able to complete the national dex without the need of jewish tactics?
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>>458722714
it's extremely easy.
move all the ev/iv minmaxing shit to be frontloaded complexity instead of fireemblem hidden stat tier difficulty shit.

what you do not realize is that by actively hiding the complexities people are turned away from even trying it out. hence why 3 people play hardcore fire emblem, for example.

the complexity economy in pokemon is objectively awful. 99% of the complexity is in 1% stat changes that only matter for 4d chess matchup guessing purposes. that is inherently bad design, on top of the fact that it's completely incoherent with the whole "pick who you want" thing, while all advantages reside on individual growth, so it's also fucked on a fundamental level. it's not a matter of being hard or unfortunate.
gamefreak never addressed this or ever attempted to make any changes along this line of balancing, ever. they just do not care because the games sell the same.
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>>458723043
>>MORE THAN ONE OF EACH FUCKING ITEM IN A TEAM AT ANY TIME
Nothing wrong with this one. Why call to un-limit some things, but not others?
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>>458723757
>while others got improved

Like what, gengar? the gen 2 meta really hurt him, what with ghost type moves like shadowball being physical instead of special. He spent almost two whole generations outside of the highest possible tier.
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>>458723043
>Only one pokemon allowed to sleep at a time
I like having my entire team shut down by spore too.
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>>458722518
I miss some of the people in that cap.
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When did legendaries go to shit in Pokemon? Design-wise I mean. I think the first two gens were alright and there were a few good exceptions later on still but generally speaking I feel like legendary design have gone hard downhill since gen 3
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>>458723137
How would you feel if scald were 60 power?
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>>458724085
I still think EV training is easy as shit to grasp and IVs are the actual problem most people have. But if you axe them you could fuck up hidden power and possibly lead to some gen 2 shenanigans returning.
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>>458722632
That's what romhacks are for.
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>>458724285
I will not be satisfied until every move like scald has a burn rate of less than 10%
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>>458724251
I always thought the dogs were dumb. Suicune looks okay but Raikou and Entei are honestly derptier design
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>>458723137
don't rope Gen IV into this.
instead of making lots of new broken things, it made new balanced things and fixed old Pokemon that were lacking---a trend that was completely abandoned in the following gen and followed only in principle but not practice in the gens after that
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>>458724251
the mascot were the ones affected, it seems they used the gen 3 trio as a template for the gen 4 and gen 5 trio and that's where the meme came from. Gen 6 mascots broke this trend.
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>>458716482
>a terrible hyperbeast from another dimension
>its a fucking mosquito
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>>458723652
The TCG at this point is going to be a lot more fresher. It will take a toll on your wallet though, whether you buy singles or boosters/boxes. I played on/off for about a year and stopped sometime before the Fates Collide set, it is something that you have to keep up with since your cards will eventually be rotated out.

>>458724251
Each generation has some pretty good or shitty designs. Though to say the least I would think legendary Pokemon stopped being as mysterious and elusive after Gen IV.
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>>458723137
>by later gens where every new pokemon is even better than the last.
No, you fucking retard.
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>>458723939
Yes, the piece of shit was polished as nicely as a piece of shit could be polished, i tip my hat to the community

thankfully, we are given liberty to move onto better games designed at the core to be competitive and as a result have better competitive focus comparatively.

imagine if every game dev balanced their competitive game by just moving tiers or not allowing you to use a move sometimes, instead of tinkering with an engine or stats, ever since after initial release. yep, that'd be the relationship between pokemon and smogon.

saying "it's fun enough" is like being given the option to take $5000 or $10000 money and just stopping at $5k because that was enough free money.

so to say, it's retarded. play competitive games.
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>>458724430
I guess I'm trying to suggest that design space is limited in a game like this. It would be nice if moves were made more niche/balanced, but it's also fun to have Sheer Force Overheats. Flamethrower wasn't going to be the best move forever, and there are simply better options now than a powerful, accurate, incidentally burning STAB attack.
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>>458724302
I think the system is simply boring.
To me, Pokemon was more fun before I knew about EV/IV. Or maybe the games simply got worse. Or both.
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>>458724251
They just look like upset dragon things. In a lot of cases you don't even see a face, you see just a thing that looks menacing.

In first gens you see the concepts being displayed, the birds representing different types are iconic and easy to read, you see that they are upset and menacing but also have something else, you see Zapdos edgyness, Articuno's elegance and Moltres fury through their design and it gets ingrained in your brain.

Meanwhile you have Palkia and the other one which are supposed to represent space and time but can you tell which one's which? You probably can't and as a result you forget about them quickly. In Sun and Moon you get more iconic designs because they more clearly represent the concept behind them, they are also cool looking in the game but they still feel very impersonal, probably because they feel overwhelming and it's kinda hard to keep a mental note of all their details.
>>
those who use Legendaries are straight bitches
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>>458724251
Whoever designed shit like the cloud genies and Keldeo etc. should be shot
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>>458724302
They've added data to pokemon nearly every gen. They can easily add another portion that uses a number to decide the hidden power instead of the cryptic shit we have now.
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>>458724535
Anon, we could all play abstract game theory riddles if we wanted to attain something like perfect balance. It's okay to have fun with things that aren't 100% optimized.
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>>458724491
Just like real life.
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>>458722632
>give me back my battle frontier where I can play Pokemon roguelike, pokemon randomizer, pokemon survival, pokemon faggot friendship battle simulator and have an epic showdown at the battle dome with my main boys
So you just want Battle Tower 2. Rental Battle was the only good thing about the Frontier and that is why it's the only thing that good or bad was brought back in multiple games.
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>>458724574
that's why the Kalos mascots were a success for me, they not only represented their inspiration well but had non overwhelming design, and it keeps the norse references subtle. They went a bit overboard with Zygarde complete though.
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>>458716124
Is Showderp still fun?
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>>458724547
After learning about EVs, it just felt like working out different parts of the body. Fight this to train that stat, etc. That gave it a neat angle instead of just mindlessly beating up pokemon left and right. Breeding and hatching for the right IVs was the tedious part to me.
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>>458724738
No it's shit now
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>>458724251
The Regis and Fug are legendary kino though.
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>>458724787
Is it even possible to breed perfect IVs onto a pokemon? I fucked around with breeding just to get good natures, but I can't imagine how finnicky it would be to try to get even a halfway decent IV spread, not even accounting things like Hidden Power, god forbid you want a certain nature on top of that.
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>>458724697
>Love the fuck out of the Battle Factory.
>The gimped multiplayer-reliant piece of shit that is the Battle Agency.

I'm still mad.
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Is it complicated to have other trainers and wild Pokemon scale to your team's level?
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>>458724980
What'd be the point of leveling or grinding then?
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>>458724514
>though to say the least I would think legendary Pokemon stopped being as mysterious and elusive after Gen IV

Because there's just too many of them.

There's fucking 12 legendaries in gen 5, and I haven't played 7 but you can't just have like 10 legnedary level mons just not be legendaries just because you put a different name on them, and then you have the actual legendaries on top of that. Sun and Moon have 80 new mons not counting the alola forms and 22 of them are legendaries, that shit is just rediculous.
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>>458724697
>Rental Battle was the only good thing about the Frontier
Huh I didn't know this was a commonly held opinion. I didn't even bother with the others, but Norman was super fun. It's also where I saw the only shiny I've ever seen...
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>>458724980
1:1 level scaling doesn't really work out.
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>>458724860
It's possible, and is even easy these days with all these items that guarantee you pass on IVs. Once you get even one 5 IV mon it gets even easier, especially if they were in the field egg group since that is the most populated group and therefore can pass their genes onto several other groups.
It still takes autism if you're breeding for specific hidden powers, though. Never bothered with that shit.
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>>458725023
By requiring your team's average level and number of Pokemon on your team to meet a minimum before fighting more gym leaders or progressing the story. For example the first gym leader may only require a single Pokemon to go up against them, but the last one requires five on your team with an average level of 40. Gym leaders could be done out of order this way, too.
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>>458722525
Sneasel became a viable low-tier glass cannon since the split. Yes, it also got an evo the same gen, but that one was immediate OU material.
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>>458725128
Oh I forgot how you had to fucking breed for Hidden Power to have a halfway decent power as well. Shit like that makes me infinitely prefer showdown purely in theory, let alone in actual practice.
I didn't know there were new tools to help with IVs but that makes sense. What about for, say, Legendaries? Would it still be catch and check and hope to god it somehow works out as you need it?
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>>458710243
Nope.
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>>458712884
where did he say ‘again’
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>>458724251
Because you have shit taste, "animal toy on fire" is a fucking shit design and so is "children drawing bird". Or that other guy complaining that an eldritch god or whatever is hard to read while defending a blue bird that, despite having a good design, and certainly much better design than its two brothers, doesn't represent anything about ice. The beasts that followed in the gen after are much easier to read too, but then you have one of the worst mistyped mons of all time(Lugia) and one that you have to figure out the type with a few looks before understanding(Ho-oh).

The "earlier gens had easy to figure types" meme never worked because even a number of the first 15 Pokemon is not the type they should be.
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>>458711813
Jesus I haven't seen this gif in a long long long time.
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>>458724697
I liked the tower and the snake, they were easy but often you faced some serious bullshit and it was a nice change of pace, felt like the team was toying with some interesting ideas and you always had the chance to learn something new about the game.
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>>458722632
Fuck the Battle Frontier where they literally cheat all the god damn time. Fuck Attract. Fuck Double Team. Fuck Confuse Ray. Fuck Quick Claw. Fuck Brightpowder. Fuck Fissure. Fuck Sheer Cold. Fuck the Battle Palace.
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>>458705149
High Smogon
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>>458725357
>doesn't represent anything about ice.
Every fucking ice type needs to have icicles dangling from its body somewhere? I mean I know Moltres is actually on fire, but come on, use your imagination. ARCTIC for starters, you find it in an ice cave, and it's big and blue and hits you with ice beam. What's hard to read about it?
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>>458725264
Would just need the hidden power and nature I believe. If I recall correctly, legendaries are always forced to have 31 on 3 stats, so some hidden powers are harder to get than others.
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>>458725041
>and I haven't played 7 but you can't just have like 10 legnedary level mons just not be legendaries just because you put a different name on them, and then you have the actual legendaries on top of that.
Why not? It's not like being a legendary means anything other that they can't breed.
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>>458725264
I think legendaries always have 3 maxed out IVs now, and you can force nature with some ability.
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>>458710168
Gen I OU had about 9 via mons and Touras was a must
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>>458724683
>terminator theme starts playing
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>>458706980
>Tapus
>Lando
>The same 3 UBs
Ya, it's a shit show
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>>458725418
herd u talkin shit
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>>458719427
Starmie and Gengar are UU, the day Skarmory and Ttar are OU, I'm fucking done with Pokemon meta
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>>458707504
>Why couldn't Thundurus-T have been the good one, he's so much cooler
They are all ugly rejected Dragon Quest monsters
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>>458725373
Pyramid was kind of neat as well
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>>458710819
>Gen III UU
>Gen IV OU and UU
>Gen VI UU
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>>458725678
>They are all ugly rejected Dragon Quest monsters
that's actually quite apt. if you came up with that yourself, good job! otherwise, thanks for sharing!
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>>458725453
when a quarter of your new mons are legendary what the hell is so "legendary" about them? They're not mysterious or interesting anymore they're just super strong regular mons that you only get one of
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>>458725628
Just be done now. Be a Karenfag and play with friends, like you're intended to.
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>>458725440
Certainly not at first glance. Then don't say dumb shit like "easy to read".
It's fucking blue? Then it's a water type. And yes the majority of ice types are white and do have ice on their bodies. Articuno is the only non-water ice mon that is blue. Sneasel also doesn't look anything like ice. Palkia and its game are named after a thing you find in water, and hits you with Hydro Pump. How can one not get its type immediately?
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>>458711657
You're right anon but you'll now summon the DUDE REGICE IS A BETTER WALL THAN CHANSEY LMAO faggots
>>
The last time I played competitive pokemon was gen4, and the last tier I heavily played in it was NU. I really liked the meta.
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>>458725770
>They're not mysterious or interesting anymore they're just super strong regular mons that you only get one of
Good so you confirm that UBs are nothing like that and that what i said is right, being legendary means fuck all except that you can't breed.
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>>458725812
Why do they keep trying to put ice as a defensive type
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>>458725904
Fuck if I know
>slow
>defensive
>ice type
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>>458720102
They are still better than the average RU mon
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>>458725904
>>458726002
Hey, it worked (1) time with Avalugg.
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>>458725904
At this point it's like a self imposed challenge to see if they manage to make a viable one of those.
And if something with avalugg's stat spread and moveset isn't good, nothing will ever be.
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>Lando T gets brave bird, Roost and Dragon Dance in Gen VIII
>Smogon still won't ban it
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>>458726171
lack of recovery is literally the only reason it's not banned yet
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>>458726101
Do you realize that 3 of the mons he named are in RU with those other mons?

Fuck even the base form of the latest cover legendary is.
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>>458726138
That doesn't mean they can slug it out in the upper tiers. I think all of the pseudos are good though, which is a better track record than the actual labled legendaries.
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>>458726235
but both solgaleo and lunala are uber, necrozma isn't a box legendary
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>>458713937
>Hopes
6 legendaires/mythicals/UB what ever
A new dex of about 80 mons
New megas for older mons
Strong bugs, poisons and grass
Types we never seen before like electric/poison, bug/dragon, normal/ghost
POST GAME PLEASE
Less cut scenes
A rival that isn't constantly sucking your dick


>Reality
Ha ha ha, I don't know
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>>458726285
meant for >>458726101
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>>458726171
>Not a bird
>Get's brave bird
>>
>Mega-Sableye
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>>458715408
Incinoar only matters in NU and doubles
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>>458726345
>US and UM
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>>458724251
Reshiram, Zekrom, and Lunaala are the best cover legends. If you start digging into Taoism and its concepts, they kept really true to source with these two. Like to the point where I have to wonder how fanart keeps thinking Resh is the girl and Zek's the boy while it's clearly vice-versa.
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>>458726204
Is Roost not reliable enough? Genuine question.
>half HP
>deletes flying for a turn, turning its 4x to a 2x
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>>458726345
Good thing i said "base form of" and how isn't he a box legendary? He's on the cover of 2 games, transformed. Hell USUM are the only games where the cover has the legendary twice there, even if the second picture is relatively hidden.
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>>458726524
good thing it doesn't fucking matter because then cosmog is a box legendary too
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>>458726515
Lando's not particularly fast in the meta so it's still going negative overall.
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>>458726515
yeah but it doesn't learn roost so what's your point
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>>458723123
>Battle Tree
>Moody Gailie
>Sheer cold always rapes me
>Didn't even touch it as I was setting up SD on my first turn
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>>458726515
It doesn't have roost
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>>458726621
what
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>>458726659
makes sense

>>458726678
>>458726725
I mentally deleted an I here >>458726171 for some reason.
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>>458726685
>He doesn't scout with Shedinja/Zoroark
>>
Are people actually this autistic about competitive pokemon
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>>458725904
Because Cloyster was good in Gen II when there was very few fighting moves and special attackers and at the time it has an average speed, so GF probably are trying to make Cloyster 2 point out. Weivile and Froslass are the model template for ice types
>>
>>458726378
>>458726378
Crobat has it
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>>458726932
It's more Weavile and Mamoswine than anything.
>>
Lando-T and team preview justify my dislike of Gen 5
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>>458727031
neither are defensive
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>>458727114
Mamo's got a bit of meat on it though sash support might be necessary at points.
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>>458726932
And Cloyster now has Shell Smash and Skill Link Icicle Spear so it's not even used for that now
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>>458725624
Yamero!
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>>458727031
Notice how most Mamoswines have a jolly nature, max speed EVs and often specs. Everyone who runs Mamoswine tries their damnist to make it's slightly below average speed as fast as they can
It has good HP, thunder immune and nutral to rocks but only an average defense, shit spe def and way too many weaknesses to run as a bulky attackers
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>>458706872
you have a way about explaining things that reminds me of a very specific group of people.
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>>458727179
It has too many weaknesses and shitty special defense and only 1 immunity and resistant
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>>458727179
it's somewhat chunky for a sweeper but it still gets 1/2hko'd by anything with any offensive investent
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>>458722518
>>458721998

where can I catch stream of that before it start
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>>458705279
>type isnt brave and bird
I'm disgusted that there isnt anything lower than 0/10
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>>458706594
if the pokemon is fundamentally different, then you're just fighting the same sprit/animation.
Each instance is a relatively unique experience.
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>>458726621
That doesn't make sense. Necrozma is on the cover of USUM. Retard.
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>>458705279
>not even a Brave Bird trip
Pathetic
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>>458726138
>'Lugg is sub-PU
>meanwhile Sneasel, a non-fully evolved mon with sub-450 stats, is one of the best mons in NU
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>>458720931
Sure thing. It's a Quick Attack clone that only goes to a slow, frail, special attacker that isn't even a fire type.
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OH NONONON O Beedrill fags BTFO
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>>458732110
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>>458730594
Stop posting this shit
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>>458730594
Beedrill is that fragile?
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>>458733774
defense of 40, he's paper

special def is 80 which is better but he's still just a glass cannon that eats shit to seditious sediment
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>>458733681
you mad bro
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>>458726447
>fanart keeps thinking Resh is the girl
lubby chudder
>>
>>458735796
toGEDDER forEVER
toGEDDER forEVER
>>
>>458735796
I LOVE
>>
>>458716745
Nope, Smogon still hasn't banned Acupressure to my knowledge.
Snips is fun as fuck.
>>
>>458721998
yo, what's the sauce on that porn pic at the bottom left?



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