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>video game has optional easy mode that doesn't compromise the artistic vision of the intended experience
There are literally no arguments against this.
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>>458650646
Devs didn't include one.
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>>458650646
Just watch a LP you reflexlet.
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>>458650646
>video game has optional easy mode that doesn't compromise the artistic vision of the intended experience
OK. And if there is no optional easy mode that means the devs didn't include it because it would compromise their artistic vision of the intended experience, and therefore shouldn't be added.
>>
>>458650646
>doesn't compromise the artistic vision of the intended experience
except it always will if being difficult is part of it
demon's souls and dark souls were hard and punishing because of the world
the devs have zero responsibility to include one, just don't buy the game, it's not for you, entitled cunt
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>>458650646
Look mom, i'm using big words, i'm not inept anymore.
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>>458650964
>>458650959
>>458650646
>>458650747

Easymode is bad if it's multiplayer like Dark Souls, you want equal footing here.

For singleplayer? The dev is a mental retard if he doesn't. It's some shuffling with humbers and viola! extra money! Best IMO is adaptive difficulty that starts out as easy, die little, do way more damage than the norm? crank up. die like a video game journy? crank down, but do slowly creep up the bottom line difficulty. Then, our noob kills the final boss and the gameshows him he unwittingly grown due a normal player due adaptive difficulty. This growth should be a motivator to crank it up to normal or hard.

Or am I being too optimistic here?
>>
>Game has Easy Mode, but punishes the player with a bad ending, or locks him out of Final Boss for playing on Easy
That's the way you do Easy Mode
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>>458651312
You would suck as a game developer and nobody here would like your games
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>>458651312
>furfaggot
Vacate thread
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>>458651312
>Unironically praising adaptive difficulty.
Institute yourself. You desperately need help.
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>>458651312
I was going to give this post a serious response but I couldn't figure out what the fuck you're even trying to say.
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>>458651457
>>458651460
>>458651502

kek, seething faggots handing in their concessions.
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>>458651373
>Each level below max difficulty locks you out of some form of game content
Or worse
>Unlocks for lower difficulty levels are not unlocked at higher difficulty levels
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>>458651373
Games in general having incentives for playing in higher difficulty levels is a good thing. Though the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Borderlands and Terraria, where you get better drops at higher difficulty levels, including exclusive items.
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>>458651312
>furfaggot
GET THE FUCK OUT
BACK TO TUMBLR
YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE
YOU ARE DISGUSTING AND DONT DESERVE RIGHTS
>>
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>>458650646
I have no problems with an optional easy mode, it's fun to do after beating the game because you feel like a superhuman. I do have a problem with people trying to force a dev to include one if they made a decision not to.
I don't usually stick a toe into the "games are art" arguments because I dislike the notion of it, but assuming this is to appeal to the recent trend in game journalists saying this, and seeing as to said journalists being on the side of "they are art," why do they believe that the viewer should be able to force the artist to change his work? Do they believe a great filmmaker should be forced to make a rewrite of a difficult to understand script for less educated audiences? A painter should be forced to make a simplified version of his works with an explanation as to his artistic intent?
This isn't to say it's bad if the dev implements one or listens to fans, as I have nothing against an easy mode in and of itself, but rather I am speaking against the bold statements of "they SHOULD" and the accusations of hostility towards some players by not including it that have been leveled at devs as of late.
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>>458651545
Okay, I'm going to go simple for you. There is no shame anon.

>noob picks easymode
>game uses adaptive difficulty
>minimum of the adaptive is an upward line
>when 70% of game done, difficulty will cross near/into normal territory due increase
>noob, unwittingly, still thinking he's on easy, feels safe
>unknowingly gets better at the game
>noob beats final boss
>game shows his metrics compared to average
>game lets them in on it's trickery
>noob gets ego boost and feels good
>reward beats punishment anyday
>noob will replay on hard

Questions?
>>
>>458651312
Not every game has to appeal to every one. Devs can market to whoever they want.
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>>458651969
I didn't read past the first paragraph because it didn't apply to me.
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>>458652081
>Noob plays on Easy
>Does well
>Game ramps it up to Normal
>Suddenly getting stomped
>Quits b/c lost on Easy
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>>458652081
no, you fucking retard
the game will be on it's lowest difficulty by the time he beats each boss
you have zero idea how difficulty works or how people get better and your idea is retarded, kill yourself and/or leave
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>>458652152
and they're dumb in minimal effort can get them alot of dosh. Hey, it harms no-one and the dev could even move up to B game territory.
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>>458650646
>someone who is not being marketed to expects a dev to change their game to market to them
Yeah, go bitch to Atlas that they're oppressing you by not having a Persona title that plays like X-com. Have fun with that.
>>
>playing a game on Easy
might aswell just watch a playthrough.
If you wanna play Sekiro but want none of the challenge, watch a video. The story is meh and without the difficulty the game would just be an R1 masher, no point in easy mode.
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>>458652341
you think that even happens if we do it very slowly but very often? maybe each combat sequence even? the trick is that the noob can't tell.

>>458652393
Go fuck yourself and die in a house fire.
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>>458652335
Doesn't really matter, I'm addressing the broad topic presented in the OP and the current issues surrounding it, not personally presenting it to you.
Would you like to enlighten me as to your perspective on it? I would gladly formulate a discussion point for what "applies to you."
>>
>>458650646

>American are such brainlet full of themselves that they need to cheat or they have a mental breakdown

Imagine being this bad at vidya
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>>458650646
for a lot of good games overcoming the struggle of the difficulty and mastering the gameplay is part of the artistic vision.
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>>458652607
lol
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>>458652675
I see.
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>>458650646
If an easy mode is there, fine. But why the fuck are they suddenly being demanded as if their absence is a personal attack? That shit never happened before. If a game was stupidly hard it was usually just docked points for it. Back when fucking The Lion King came out on SNES and Genesis people just said the game was stupid hard and gave it a worse review.
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>>458652787
isn't it extremely easy to implement though? worsen the responsiveness of AI, give more lives, deal more damage. that's litterally changing numbers innit?
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>>458651312
Obligatory
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>>458651312
Maybe they don't want an easy mode, and the way the game is is how it is intended to be played, and if you don't like that, then don't play it...?
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>>458652567
>you think that even happens if we do it very slowly but very often? maybe each combat sequence even? the trick is that the noob can't tell
changing the difficulty each death doesn't allow him to try again and learn from it, instead it encourages him to try the same things until he eventually beats the boss with minimum effort. in fact instead of being able to try and test something so he can learn the game will just make it easier
adaptive difficulty is a crutch so people can just beat a game as long as they try over and over again
I've seen in realtime a casual's thinking process and it's not as simple as him beating the boss makes him better

>Go fuck yourself and die in a house fire.
yeah no go neck yourself furry
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>>458652927
kek man, I got that from another anon drawfag. it was about character design.
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>>458650646
Alternatively
>Game has no difficulty mods to choose from and the devs failed to account for players improving and thus loses its steam about 1/3 of the way through the game.
You faggot are so caught up on one single part of the argument you fail to consider the other. From is lazy, this is known.
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>>458651312
>lol just implement an entirely new system to make people who aren't going to buy the game anyway feel better about being dogshit at their "hobby"
loving
every
laugh
>>
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If the point of the STORY of the game is to be strong but your enemies are stronger then yes, even a single player game suffers from an easy mode.

Sekiro wouldn't function with an Easy Mode, the narrative makes no sense if Wolf doesn't have a really fucking shitty time getting to his nigh impossible goal. These literally mentally ill motherfuckers don't seem to get that.

>Durr it's just a game
If you want to pretentiously claim that videogames should be art then the actual gameplay portion can be a part of the artistic medium, and if difficulty is a part of it, well, not everyone "gets" art, right? You don't fucking "get" this then, and that's okay, you cheated, and you think the game is shit. Congratulations, you not only suck at videogames, but you also don't "get" it.
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>>458652927
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>>458652661
>American
the US release of DMC3 was the hardest, you had to restart a level or buy continues. and all the difficulties were one higher than the JP version, JP hard = US normal
it's just game journos and normalfags anon, no need to generalize
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>>458652557
>without the difficulty the game would just be an R1 masher
This is the real issue. The gameplay breaks down if the difficulty decreases too much. Everything from Mikari Counter, to deflects, to jump-kicking, etc, start losing usefulness real quick as numerical difficulty decreases.
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>>458652908
But that's beside the point. If a game is stupid hard then it's stupid hard. Convey that in the review and either support the game for what it is or tell people to avoid it. Judge the game for the package that it delivers. What you don't do is bitch and whine that something should be added to it because you deserve to be able to beat the game. That doesn't make any sense. If the game is stupid hard for you then you probably don't like it very much. Why would you want to play through a game that you don't like very much?
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>>458652081
I don't believe this is a solution.
A spike or sudden shift to normal doesn't account for a player who intentionally chooses easy to breeze through because he wants a comfortable experience rather than to improve. This would only serve to act in a similar manner to how a typical "casual filter" boss fight does, slapping the player in the face by suddenly not being as easy as they expected. Gradual increases (e.g. enemies have 0.001% more health/str every one you kill) work better for the type of difficulty you are suggesting for new players or ones who want to "feel good" about the game revealing it slowly makes stuff stronger.
In any case, no dev should be forced to include it if he simply wishes to pander to a specific audience. Much as people say for games like VNs or walking sims, if you don't like it or can't handle the gameplay (whether it be challenge or boredom) don't play it.
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>>458650646
its not that easy mode isn't allowed, its just people are fucking stupid.
>create easy mode
>retards complain game is too hard on easy mode
this is what "journos" are doing
how shit can you be at video games?
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>>458653171
>Durr it's just a game
The best counter to this is just remind them that if they don't really care anyway, then they don't have any ground to stand on when they bitch about how having an easy mode totally matters.
It's just a game, right? Then you don't have to play because it's not important. Bye.
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>>458650646
>There are literally no arguments against this.
2 million sales say otherwise.
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>>458651312
People also grow as players if they take the time to learn how to play a game. You don't need adaptuve difficulty for that.
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>>458653029
Then the dev is a mental retard with less business forte than EA (just in the opposite direction) You need money to make your next game or to , you know, not starve.

>>458653042
well, wouldn't an incremental bottom help with them cheesing the system? I just want to help the noobs not be noobs and have more fun than they would with their backwards idiocy.

>>458653121
Again, money. if you ain't willing to play a noob dresser, like you dress dogs (I trained Brder Collies, let's just say their intelligent reputation is.... unearned) then just fumble numbers.

>>458653341
well, casual fillers could work to keep nooblets out of say, Dark Souls, butthat's an online game so having everyone on the same footing is a very good, if not, mandatory thing to do. I just want to train the retarded noob into something… useful, you know? as for easymode, again, isn't it just changing some numbers? maybe even a difficulty for game journos that secretly has godmode Always on :^)
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>>458650857
>>458650959
>>458650964
>>458652557
>>458652661
>>458653171
>>458653547
>>458653601
Doom has an easy mode, Deus Ex has an easy mode, RoR has an easy mode, all these games /v/ sucks off have an easy mode.
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>>458650646
>games
>art

Hurr durr.
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>>458653638
How do assbad dark souls players still turn up in invasions? I had that, on NG+. how did they not get better or devastated?
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>>458653659
Souls games and games like Cuphead have done just fine without them. Don't sacrifice vision for children like you.
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>>458653710
Apples and oranges, friend.
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>>458650646
>buy game that's only appeal is it's fucking hard
>wtf why is this so hard
Maybe get a refund and just don't be retarded next time
>>
>Timesplitters 2
>each difficulty not only adds further objectives, but also extends the level more and more, eventually reaching a boss only accessible on Hard
>much more satisfying experience each time

I honestly love stuff like this. It encourages you to push yourself beyond your limit and outside of your comfort level, rewarding you with a more extended experience that the last. Back in 2004 I always played games on Easy / Medium, and this was one of the games that got me into manning up and playing on harder modes.

People these days will write it off as bullshit walled-off content unfriendly to beginners, but people these days are so stagnate, so entitled, and so weak-willed and unmotivated that it almost disgusts me.
>>
Imagine this with anything else though.

A game has glitches.
>This game should not have glitches, not because it makes the game worse but because people deserve to play the game without glitches.

It's not what they're complaining about. It's the reasoning behind it. If they were saying that the lack of an easy mode limits the appeal of the game to the most hardcore of hardcore then there wouldn't be a problem with that. But, no, they're acting like the game's lack of an easy mode is an affront to people's dignity.
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>>458653820
>sacrifice vision

people that seriously believe this and aren't willing to make minimal adaptations for a few well-paying tards don't deserve to see another cent in their lives. Tards are free real estate.
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>>458653893
How do you figrue?
>>
I agree, but you can’t (can not) call a game bad if the developers did not want to do that.
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>>458650646
Instead of wasting developer time tailoring the game experience to incompetent fuckwits, said fuckwits should save everyone involved time and money just watching a playthrough on Youtube.
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>>458653710
Literally not an argument.
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>>458653970
To give an illustration, I hate bullet hell shooters. I think they're terribly designed games and practically fetishize difficulty to the point of sacrificing everything else that makes a good game.

I simply call them shit and choose not to play them. I don't demand they change to suit me as if I'm entitled to have them appeal to me.
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>>458650646
>There are literally no arguments against this.
What if the artistic vision is to create a virtual world instead of creating a video game?
When the USA goes to war with China they won't be able to pick a difficulty.
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>>458654247
How is it not an argument?
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>>458654052
Games with easy modes where designed to incorporate them from the ground up.
>>
Reminder: Anyone who claims to care about the developer's vision is also not allowed to ask for a hard mode, character creator, more options, etc. or complain about their absence.

Reminder: Anyone who claims to care about the developer's vision is not allowed to berate someone for using tools the developer gave the player, such as summons, ranged weapons, or the traditional easy mode.

Reminder: Anyone who confuses "the developers vision" with "all players must play literally the same game" are textbook definition autistic. Developers set out to evoke certain feelings in people (such as the satisfaction of overcoming a challenge) and as every person is different so too must the game be different for each person to evoke the same experience. One man's satisfying challenge is another man's cakewalk is another man's impossible frustrating wall. Hence, people who think "they are playing on the same difficulty as me and thus experience the same thing as me" are autistic.

In other words, use any of the other perfectly valid arguments against including an easy mode, such as "it takes work" or "it would be less polished than the other modes" or "there are other games to play".
>>
I don't see a problem with easy mode but there should be a constant symbol or indicator the player can't hide when playing on easy mode. Also you can't earn completion achievements while playing easy mode, only the easy mode specific ones.
>>
>/v/ is one person
That doesn't at all argue why it's a good thing though. I love RoR2 and I wish Hopoo didn't waste any of his time on Drizzlets. He's got too much on his plate at the moment.
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>>458650646
>There are literally no examples of this.
Fixed it for you.
>>
>>458653659
as I've said I've seen casual thinking in realtime, let's use DaS3 pvp as an example
in DaS3, you can roll and it gives iframes, it's extremely generous, takes barely any stamina and you can spam it to keep you safe from most of the game
in pvp, you can time an attack right when their iframes end to "rollcatch" them. you can do this to 90% of people all the way until they die and they won't stop and think "hmm maybe I should time my rolls instead of spamming the button"
another example is r1 spamming and parrying
block two light attacks and parry the third everytime
you can do this 20+ times to the same person and they will not change their tactics
casuals are braindead and changing the damage doesn't help them learn, making the boss use his difficult attacks less doesn't help them learn, allowing them to cheese the boss or avoid something completely doesn't help them learn. they can only learn if they have a desire to get better and if they spend the time to understand their mistakes or master the mechanics

>>458653710
anon you need to understand I am not completely against easy mode
it's the fact that developers are being pressured to always include one
if they want to then go ahead, but they should also feel no need to include one, you aren't entitled to it, and some developers want you to overcome a challenge they have created for you. if you don't want to take that challenge, play something else or something that allows you to opt out of that with easy mode
>>
>>458654450
>Anyone who claims to care about the developer's vision is not allowed to berate someone for using tools the developer gave the player, such as summons, ranged weapons, or the traditional easy mode.
anyone who does this is a retard
>Anyone who claims to care about the developer's vision is also not allowed to ask for a character creator, more options, etc. or complain about their absence.
you're a retard
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>>458650965
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>>458654658
>>Anyone who claims to care about the developer's vision is also not allowed to ask for a character creator, more options, etc. or complain about their absence.
>you're a retard
There is zero difference between someone arguing
>the game shouldn't have an easy mode because the developers intended for it to be hard
and
>the game shouldn't have a hard mode because the developers intended for it to be easy/relaxing/"comfy" etc.
>>
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>>458654450
Maintaining the developer's vision is a valid point in this case:

https://www.frontlinejp.net/2019/04/03/sekiro-shadows-die-twice-director-miyazaki-discusses-his-vision-and-how-it-was-conceived-part-2-2/

You wouldn't happen to be a localizer, would you?
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>>458654615
Now you're just being a condescending dickhead.

>>458654438
It's literally tweaking a few variables, dude.
>>
>>458653659
That already exists in some games, it's often termed as creative or casual mode (e.g. Phoenix Mode in FE Fates). None of these force a player to improve, they're mostly there for people who just want to get to the next cutscene, which isn't necessarily wrong in these cases, as that already makes up a huge part of the established playerbase (and there's several gameplay features outside of the main battles that are designed to cater to them, so it's not like the whole game falls apart, there's still much to do).
Regardless, I don't have a problem with easy mode or including it, it just isn't something that should be mandatory for a dev to include if they elect not to. A good easy mode functions in and of itself as a helper for new players without adapting difficulty upwards, and isn't merely changing numbers. However, not every game tries to utilize this as a teaching style. It all depends on the intention of the easy mode in the first place, and the genre of game it's in.
Also as a small secondary point, have you considered that the dev has deliberately tried to make a game that is controversial and spurs free advertisement via people spewing about the difficulty? I see you seem to choose the financial angle as a key point, so consider this as well. Much of the non-paid exposure a game gets is through clickbait, "shocked" youtube ecelebs putting up titles that say "HARDEST GAME EVER!?!?!" and through notability in being difficult. While this does nothing to discount including an easy mode, it does provide some explanation as to why a dev may choose to make a bone-breakingly hard game, especially as a big name dev who has many people anticipating such a decision.
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>>458654814
Note that I removed the part of your post that talked about hard mode, I was talking about the cc, options, etc
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>>458654998
>It's literally tweaking a few variables, dude.
You've never played a Souls game, have you?
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>>458654615
I was that hexxer guy in DS2 that launched toxic black gas at people that were in their bowing animation, most didn't know you can break animations. say, is maintaining a casual game meant to drain wallets a good idea to keep your studio on a steady inflow of assets? Activision does it with CoD as I genuinely doubt they hold any passion for that IP.
>>
>>458655072
Nice ad hom. I have bloodborne on my PS4
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>>458655139
Then you should already understand why easy modes can't work with these games.
>>
>>458654998
>>458655139
How would invasions work? Bosses that involve other players? Invasions are pretty frequent in souls games and will be much harder for a player that is familiar with a casualized experience
>>
>>458654908
It's not valid, it's an argument for the exact opposite.
Take this, from the article:
>He says that as Sekiro is different from Dark Souls, players may first find it to be difficult, but as they learn new ways of fighting and new tactics and get better, they should feel the pleasure of getting better

Absolutely none of this is changed if the game offered an easier mode. To someone who finds the base difficulty "impossible", the easier difficulty would be "difficult" and they'd still have to improve as a player from when they started the game. This is more in line with what the developer intended than if the player bashes their character against a challenge until they get luck or quit entirely.

The drawback, the actually valid argument, is that people who -could- overcome the standard difficulty may accidentally or intentionally play on the easier one, robbing themselves of the intended experience.
>>
>>458650646
Yeah. I don't care. But I do find it really offensive that Journos are using "muh disabled" scapegoats because they're bad at games. No one thinks Doom is a bad game because it has difficulty settings.
>>
@458655345
>i haz no argument so im just gonna say "it should be obvius" n leev it at that XD
Shoot yourself, fromsoy, I'm done
>>
>>458655061
There is still no difference. There are perfectly valid reasons why a developer would limit the options a player has. Having a set character may be part of their vision for the game and one could argue that a character creator would hurt that in the same way an easy mode would.
>>
>>458655741
and not every game needs a cc
you're dumb if you think asking for options is "against a vision" then unless that vision is to be purposefully obnoxious
>>
>>458653710
Doom's easy mode insults the player (as it should) and they complain about that.

Deus Ex isn't hard.
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>>458652927
Literally just came here to say this is based. I'm out.
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>>458655616
You want an argument? See >>458651530
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>>458654998
>Now you're just being a condescending dickhead
how so anon? that's literally how these journos feel, they use "accessibility" and hide behind people with disabilities as an excuse

>It's literally tweaking a few variables, dude.
no it isn't anon
number tweaking is the WORST way to change difficulty. not only does it do nothing to add difficulty (which is why people hate shit like nuGoW) but it does nothing to make it easier either. they will still always get hit by the same attacks if they don't learn to counter them and making those attacks to less damage doesn't help them learn to avoid them. they might be able to just luckily do enough damage before dying and if the fight lasted a little longer then they wouldn't have made it but that just shows they only won because they had enough health to keep repeating those mistakes
in order to make an easy mode that actually allows casuals to learn without being thrown in the deep end you have to change A.I., remove harder attacks, or replace them with slower or easier to avoid ones
>>
>>458655995
>that's literally how these journos feel, they use "accessibility" and hide behind people with disabilities as an excuse
That doesn't mean you can use that use that to strawman everyone, faggotron
>>458655898
Yeah, just like how Doom and Deus Ex were destroyed by having an Easy mode!
Oh, wait...
I reiterate, shoot yourself, fromsoy
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>>458656703
>I reiterate, shoot yourself, fromsoy
The only one without an argument here is you, casual.
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>>458650646
IMO, there's nothing wrong with adding an easy mode to any game.
But if the dev is going to add things to mock the player for not playing on the hardest difficult, just remove all difficulty options and just have normal as the hardest difficulty, don't be a nigger about someone not being as adept at being a no-life like you or me.
>>
>>458656909
>claim easy mode destroys games
>get shown games that easy mode hasn't destroyed
>C-C-C-C-C-CC-C-C-CASHEW W-W-W-WW-W-W-W-W-WALL
Stupid fromnigger
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>>458656935
mocking is funny though
I like playing with the cute red ribbon in IWBTG
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>>458657116
I love how you continue to ignore the points made here >>458651530

Need an easy mode for reading too?
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>>458657513
I don't waste my time reading retardation that's completely wrong in the first paragraph. Especially since Daggerfall is designed the same way and has an easy mode.
>>
>>458657513
Also, from games aren't """"""""''hard""""""""" at all. Arin from freaking game grumps can beat them, and he can't even beat Majora's Mask. Really says something about From games and their community
>>
>>458657845
You're a liberal, aren't you?
>>
>>458658051
>Also, from games aren't """"""""''hard""""""""" at all.
Which is why they never needed easy modes.
>>
>>458656703
>That doesn't mean you can use that use that to strawman everyone, faggotron
that's what ignited this discussion but either way I stand by what I said, weather it came off as condescending or not, you are not entitled to an easy mode and if you don't like it then don't buy the game
I am not entitled to a challenge and have been disappointed and let down by many games I've bought, but I don't start a massive issue over how every game should cater to me
>Yeah, just like how Doom and Deus Ex were destroyed by having an Easy mode!
hey retard, Doom and Deus Ex don't have the design philosophy of Souls and similar games and their devs chose to include an easy mode instead of being pressured into it
may I ask why you don't just play nuGoW or the many other AAA titles released year in year out anyone who can hold a controller can beat? you have your games, I would like you to not ruin mine
>>
>wasting precious dev time to make shit for people that aren't even your target audience
>>
I think the worst thing about this stupid debate is that now people are using accessibility as an excuse for wanting it, and calling anyone who says that not every game needs to be for everyone ableist. Where were these accessibility faggots when Nintendo put out the Wii? Even now with the switch somehow motion controls are still getting free a pass, yet a slightly hard game with tons of accessibility stuff put in (danger cue on the player so you don't need to rely on sound, remappable buttons, mandatory tutorial pop-ups and a literal training dummy) is getting blasted for not being accessible.
>>
>>458658051
Arin from freaking game grumps no less?
>>
>>458658073
>no argument
>go straight for resetera tranny boogeyman
I voted Libertarian in the 2016 election. Sorry, fromnigger, but you're gonna need an actual argument
>>458658156
I didn't say it needed one, illiterate from niggger I said it wouldn't RUIN the game. Nice straw man, from nigger
>>458658180
Nice ad hom, from dickhead.
>>
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>>458650646
>>
>>458658325
>>458658304
>>458658351
>>458658156
>>458658073
S E E T H I N G
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>>458650646
It doesn't keep the plebs and casuals out. I like it when shitters can't play games because they don't deserve to. Git gud or git the fuck out.
>>
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>>458650646
What if the "artistic vision" is the struggle?
What if the entire point is the testing of a players mettle and tenacity?
What if the intended experience is 'a rose with thorns' that you cannot admire without a little pain - that you cannot beat the game without failing.

Checkmate, faggots
>>
>>458658849
The plebs and casuals ARE in sekiro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yatenn-xi5o
>>
>>458658569
>Nice ad hom
what the fuck are you saying? here, I'll dumb it down and provide an easy mode for my post:
>you are not entitled to beating a game because you bought it
>game developers should be free to make their games as difficult as they like, and provide whatever options they like
>if you don't like it, don't buy it, play something else, there's literal hundreds of other games to play that cater to you, yet you still want the few that cater to me to also cater to you
do you understand now? not every game needs to be the same
>>
But they don’t want to add an easy mode, forcing them to do so is compromising their artistic vision. It adds an experience that presents the game in a different way, Miyazaki is interested in making more experiential games and making the world less threatening changes the way you approach it.
>>
458659080
stay seething, from nigger
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>>458658569
>you're gonna need an actual argument
It takes two to tango. Can't really argue with someone who's too lazy to read OR learn how to play a video game.
>>
>>458659019
It would be worse with and easy mode.
>>
>>458659080
I never tried force them to anything, dickhead. I only said that it wouldn't ruin the game, and all you did is sperg out like a typical from nigger

>>458659331
Wow, u sure convinced me!

>>458659267
>N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-NO U
Predictable and weak
>>
>>458650646
I love how people who are bad at sekiro keep trying to change their argument whenever they get btfo
>>
>>458659621
If only they adapted so quickly while playing the game.
>>
>>
>>458659892
>>
>>458659447
it would ruin the game, see >>458659120

>you sperged out hurr
I tried to debate you, if I were a sperg I'd skip to calling you a tranny and telling you to go back to tumblr, resetera and reddit
If you're not going to actually give some argument back then I can't really debate you can I? calling everyone a spergy fromnigger dickhead faggotron fromsoy and then saying they have no arguments or ad hom or strawmanning is about as hypocritical as it gets anon
>>
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>>458660230
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I tried to debate you
>>
>>458650646
Some games include easy mode while others don’t. That doesn’t make either one of them inherently bad and devs should be able to include whatever they want without being pressured into compromising their vision. That’s how I see it, at least.
>>
The only time easy mode is acceptable is if the player is chastised throughout the game, or if the game locks you out of the ending and tells you to fuck off until you beat normal mode.
>>
>>458655874
>Doom's easy mode insults the player
Why don't any new FPS games have that anymore?
>>
>>458651312
>The dev is a mental retard if he doesn't
Correct, if the only thing they care about is sales and money.
>>
>>458660846
dumb
>>
Easy mode are for children, women and effeminated men.
>>
>>458661021
If you're not willing to put in the effort to beat a game, then you don't deserve to have a satisfying ending.
>>
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today it's easy mode, tomorrow it's the fact that there's even a hard mode to begin with
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>>458660949
Reddit tier """"""""""""'humor"
>>
>video game has easy mode
>game ends earlier than usual if you play on it
>>
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>458660414
>>
>>458655345
I'm on the side that they should not add an easy mode, but you're going with the wrong argument man, it would be very easy to make an easy mode for these games.
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>>458653223
moot was a redditor im glad hes gone
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>>458661097
>>458661148
>STAHP PLAYEENG GAEM DIFFRENT FROM ME
>>
You would have beaten Sekiro by now if you just played it instead of begging for ez mode on english social media sites
>>
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Soulsborne games are thrillers where difficulty is required to convey the feeling of threat and danger in the world. Can you imagine walking through Lothric or Yharnam just destroying all the mobs and bosses on your first try?
>>
>>458661326
Not an argument.
>>
Dang, it's real easy to make fromsoys mad! If you're this easily triggered, stay on reddit, where you belong
>>
>>458661374
They never learn. Guess that's why they can't handle Sekiro.
>>
>>458661404
Have sex
>>
>>458661425
see >>458661510
>>
>>458661619
Not an argument.
>>
>>458652927
I support slaughtering furries, but why ruin a perfectly fine picnic table? They could have had a fruity snack after purging the filth
>>
>>458661618
Stop advocating rape culture.
>>
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>game's easy mode makes every boolit do less damage making the fights drag on for way too long
>you have to scavenge for boolits which are scarce, effectually making the game harder
>>
>make an easy mode
>that stops the game and doesn't give you the real ending
>also locks out normal mode, only leaving hardmode to play
>>
>>458661819
Your right, I’m sorry. No one would have sex with him.
>>
>>458662083
No you finally understand.
>>
>>458661152
epic bait
>>
Devil's advocate: if you pay full cost to purchase a game, you should be entitled to experiencing all of the content contained in the game
>>
>>458662616
wrong faggot
>>
>>458662765
Why?
>>
>optional easy mode
Nobody talks about optional harder mode proving that people are hypocrites.
Also, nothing screams white privilege louder than asking for something to be easier.
>>
>>458662616
Incorrect. This falls into the assumption that every video game ever created will appeal to literally every single person in the world.
Consumers share responsibility in researching the product they want to purchase beforehand.
>>
>>458662824
because ur gay
>>
>>458662616
>you should be entitled to experiencing all of the content contained in the game
Agreed. So when there's no easy mode in the game you aren't entitled to an easy mode, but you are entitled to the same content as everybody else with the same difficulty as everybody else. You're perfectly entitled to it, and no one is stopping you from accessing it but you.
>>
>director's vision of intended experience was to make you think on your feet, use your resources and learn from your mistakes.
>most bosses are made challenging so as to give players a sense of victory when overcoming a tough obstacle
>difficulty is calculated to reward risk-taking and punish habit-forming

>pussy-ass players:
>WAAAAAAHHH I NEED AN EASY MODE!
>>
>>458662826
But you do have harder modes like SL1 runs
>>458662959
U got me ;3
>>458662883
But what about people who really dig the world design, aesthetics, and a bunch of other factors about the game beyond gameplay and want to support FromSoft's games?
>>
>>458662616
You can experience the content without playing it. Youtube, streamer or just pirate it. Now you haven't even paid to experience the game yet you are.
>>
>>458662826
>white privilege
Go back
>>
>>458663367
Not the previous guy but then they either learn how to play or they can choose not to with this particular game and wait for whatever comes next.
>>
>>458663367
Then you can buy the game and not play it if you wish to do so. Buying the game doesn't make you entitled to anything.
Buying a guitar doesn't automatically make me a guitarist.
>>
>>458662616
This is how all games just become interactive movies in the end. Everything is just made easier and easier until you just press a button to play the next cutscene
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>>458650646
>I want to content tourist my way through the story and the pretty graphics but I'm too lazy to apply myself or attempt to improve. Stupid hard gameplay!
>>
>>458650646
>that doesn't compromise the artistic vision of the intended experience
Game design is in itself artistic, an easy mode offers an alternatively designed experience.

It's like selling a Mona Lisa that's black because minorities. Don't fucking kid yourself thinking that only audio visual portions of a game are art.
>>
At Senpou Temple there's a bell you can ring that will make enemies have more health and do more damage for little to no reward. Why couldn't there be a bell that does the opposite
>>
>>458663367
>like SL1 runs
What if I find SL1 runs easy?
This is why companies can't and shouldn't listen to these complaints.
Some people will find easier modes still hard, some people will find harder modes still easy and you can't make everybody happy at all times.
>Want a harder game? Handicap yourself somehow
>Want an easier game? Use some cheat table/trainer
Sure, it isn't ideal but companies can't cater to absolutely everyone.

>>458663507
>doesn't understand the context in which it was said
stop being systematically being triggered by words even more so if they are being used against the people that normally used them dumbass
>>
>>458658156
Destroyed, holy hell
>>
>>458650646
>doesn't compromise the artistic vision of the intended experience
what the fuck
get a grip faggot, it's just a video game
either play it or fuck off
>>
>>458664021
You got found out, discord tranny. Go back

>>458664080
Way to reply to yourself
>>
>>458650646
The challenge is a fundamental feature. Altering the difficulty means altering the game, it's never going to be the same experience. That doesn't mean it's not possible to enjoy an easier mode more, but it's not going to be the same. If the developer wants to make a challenging game that most people will never finish, there's no problem with that. If people want to create easy mode mods or cheats for the game on their own, that's fine.
>>
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>>458664252
>Way to reply to yourself
Your paranoia is fascinating
>>
>>458663309
Which you would still have by including the regular Normal mode.

I wouldn't say a game *needs* an easy/tourist mode, but the idea that it would ruin the game/the developers artistic vision is fucking stupid.
>>
>>458664341
Instead of having to mod the game shouldn't there be an "intended experience" mode that say is the only mode that rewards trophies or something like that and outside options that change the difficulty how you want?
>>
Why is it this game that's causing so much asshurt and bitching about easy modes? It's almost easier to cheese than DS3 with all the bullshit tools you get to steamroll everything.
>>
>>458664638
There's no option in Sekiro to grind for better stats which distinguishes it from other FromSoft games
>>
>>458664621
That would be fine too, I just don't think the developers have an obligation to include something like that. I think it's a mistake to try making all games for all people. Better to have a wide variety of games for different tastes.
>>
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>>458664638
No summoning.
>>
>>458650646
RE2make and DMCV were ruined by their "normal" -modes. At least RE2make let you pick the intended difficulty (hardcore).
>>
>>458664252
>still not comprehending what you just read even after straight up explaining it to you
clinically retarded I guess
>>
Fuck your vision. Death of the author.
>>
>>458650646
Difficulty is a form of art.
>>
>>458664469
>>458664879
>>458664938
seething discord trany
>>
>>458650646
>There are literally no arguments against this.
There wouldn't be if it existed.
>>
>>458655489
>Absolutely none of this is changed if the game offered an easier mode. To someone who finds the base difficulty "impossible", the easier difficulty would be "difficult" and they'd still have to improve as a player from when they started the game. This is more in line with what the developer intended than if the player bashes their character against a challenge until they get luck or quit entirely.
But for some people maybe this one game that forces them to play something on a different level will effect their preferences in games in general. Maybe it's not that they "don't have the reflexes" but just never even tried out a challenging game and always played the easier mode. This one game will be tougher and irritating for them then most but then they'll learn to enjoy and have an easier experience with other similar game.

If the game had an easier mode they might never have discovered this about themselves.
>>
>>458654998
>It's literally tweaking a few variables, dude.
Sure if you've only played RPGs otherwise you have to tweak puzzles, enemy AI, skills, animations etc.

That said if you don't like it don't play it, simple.
>>
>>458664621
Do you understand why a game like Dark Souls flourished and became an iconic name in the industry? The developers intended for everyone to have the same difficult experience and it created a massive community and positive word of mouth around the games. They stated in an interview that Sekiro was designed with very much the same philosophy. Why does this game need an easy mode when you have a billion other games that aren't nearly as hard to play if this one is too difficult for you? Why does FromSoft need to sterilize their game just because they're doing something different from every other dev?
>>
>>458665071
so this is what autism looks like... wow...
>>
>>458664938
Nothing wrong with playing a single-player game however you want, using cheats or whatever. But I don't like the idea that not including built-in cheats or easy modes is a major flaw in the game.
>>
>>458665285
I can agree with that. In a perfect world there would be as many accessibility options as possible coming standard in games, but I understand why those may be shunted down the list of priorities come crunch time.
>>
>>458665156
I just am not convinced that adding an easy mode neuters the experience, especially if you go out of your way to emphasize that this is not how you're supposed to play the game and even hide it so you explicitly have to look for it. I say this as someone who's beaten every FromSoft game including Sekiro this past weekend
>>
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If I was in charge, I'd make an easy mode, that if played, it also enables a graphical filter to only show low poly models and low resolution textures.
>>
>>458661225
The first question is how easier would it need to be? Only slightly less difficult? HUGELY less difficult? Should bloodstains still remain? Is coop even?Just some sort of buff where you take 50% less? And would that still provide a fulfilling experience?

Then you have playtesting as a sort of cherry-on-top, it’s not “that easy”. The big question is how none of this would affect the dev time they would usually dedicate to a single initial difficulty.
>>
>>458665475
Yeah, for most games I don't think it would hurt having the options.
Accessibility stuff like remapping buttons is always nice. Back in the day you had Gameshark/Game Genie, effectively giving every game an easy mode if you owned one and I don't think that detracted from anything. But at the same time I think a case can be made for a developer objecting to easy modes, even if it's hard to articulate. They might not want people to cheat themselves out of the experience of learning the game and overcoming the challenge, or the challenge might be central to the game's design or themes. It's possible they could view those options as giving people a bastardized version of their game, and therefore not want to add it themselves even with unlimited development time.
>>
>>458665504
>I just am not convinced that adding an easy mode neuters the experience
Anon, if the game was designed around the difficulty and learning the mechanics then of course it's neutering the experience because you're eliminating the focus of the game.
>>
>>458650646
>doesn't compromise the artistic vision of the intended experience
Does not exist
>>
>>458650646
Difficulty in games is a mistake
Just the idea of having different difficulties ruins the experience the visionary behind the game intended you to experience
By putting in difficulties you let people experience the game not the way it was meant to be experienced
Not to mention it shallows the gameplay because difficulty usually just comes in a way of more hp on enemies/less damage for player which is just lazy design
This is why games with no difficulty settings are most of the time amazing
>>
>>458666334
If the intended experience involves providing multiple difficulty modes, then those games fit. Nobody would complain that there are difficulty options in Doom or Touhou, and I'd say those options are part of the game's vision.
>>
>>458665795
>have to choose between soul and challenge
>>
I feel like people are just getting a rude awakening to what the actual difficulty of video games has been for quite a long time until the recent regression of last decade. I honestly struggle to name more than maybe 5 game over screens from last decade because games are so piss easy they are designed that you cant fail. imagine being so pampered that the idea of losing 5 minutes of progress and having to try some challenge again turns you so sour you need to protest against it.
>>
>>458660949
Because journalists feel attacked. Back when Wolfenstein II came out, journos came out of the woodwork to act insulted for being called "babies" for playing on the easiest difficulty.
>>
>sucking up to fucking game journalists of all people

How pathetic can you even be?
>>
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>>458665156
You could literally just add a "tourist" easy mode and none of that would change. Not to mention, anyone who gave a single shit about these games as a community wouldn't touch easy mode in the first place.

(Pic related is from Furi, and it's important to note Kotaku still got assblasted over it.)
>>
Furi added easy modes but to be honest they probably shouldn't have.
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>have difficulty options
>Easy Mode is actually harder than Hard Mode.
>>
>>458667323
If I had to implement an easy mode to a video game I would just make it play credits screen and then boot back to main menu.
>>
>>458666539
But we both know this thread is about Sekiro, which does not have an easy mode and shouldnt.
>>
>>458668253
Yeah, fair enough.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPqjl_DNpqk
Starts about 30 seconds in
>>
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>Etrian Odyssey has had freely swappable difficulty options for a few games.
>Nexus adds a "It's just Hard Mode again, but you're never able to switch back to this if you change to any other difficulty" difficulty.
>Said difficulty has an icon on your guild card, so if your guild card doesn't have it you're regarded as a little bitch by the community.
>>
>>458661618
With Loli Cunny!
>>
>>458668821
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9wFTcjxFWw
>>
>>458662616
When you buy a game, you're accepting the "challenge" part of it. You're buying a game. You're buying a challenge. You're agreeing to the game holding back "content" while you don't best the challenge.
>>
>>458651312
You're a babby
Itty bitty babby
>>
>>458650646
So we agree an easy mode in Sekiro would be wrong.
>>
>>458669127
This. It's like buying a rubix cube and saying you got ripped off because you couldn't solve it.
>>
>>458650646
The difficulty of a game is part of the artistic vision of the intended experience, and modes easier than what the devs include compromise that by very definition.
>>
sekiro is easy mode by default though
>>
>>458650646
>easy mode Sekiro
>play from start to end in under an hour
sometimes the difficulty is the artistic vision
>>
Forget "artistic vision", adding easy mode increases the number of retarded casuals who buy your game while the core audience are people who play it properly and still get the intended experience.
>>
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>>458653710
>these games have east mode wah wah wah
so? sekiro doesn't have one. it doesn't matter what you think or how you feel, that's just the reality of it. it just is. you fucking waste of space.
>>
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>Game has a difficulty mode that gets harder the better you are and mocks you for never reaching the game's critical difficulty modes if you are shit

No argument against this. Responses, Kotakukids?
>>
>>458662616
>you should be entitled to experiencing all of the content contained in the game

Precisely. You can access 100% of the content in the game. If you find a boss or an enemy difficult to beat, just practice until you're better at the game on the whole. Once you manage to get better, you'll be able to beat more challenging enemies as you come across them. After which, nothing should be impossible for you to access. Therefore, as soon as you purchase it, you are able to experience all of the content retained therein.
>>
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>>458668781
This is the best way to manage difficulty settings. That little verifiable mark that shows everybody that you're on "real" difficulty, rather than cuckmode.



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