[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/v/ - Video Games



Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.




why do people shit on FFXIII for being linear yet love X despite it being linear as well?
>>
because 13 wasn't fun and 10 had other stuff to do
>>
Apply your mind instead of just operatibg on basic high level words.
>>
Because 10 still had plenty of side stuff to explore and back tracking
>>
>>446488625
>>446488737
This and XIII was released almost a decade later with graphics being the only improvement.
>>
Post the video
>>
File: single woman in japan.jpg (456 KB, 900x1948)
456 KB
456 KB JPG
>>446488541
I think it's just because the characters in X were a lot more fun and better designed. It was the first FF game I ever played and the best FF game I've played since.
>>
FFX is a game you play. FF13 plays itself.
>>
>>446488541
People shit on 13 for plenty of other reasons.
>>
Is the HD really that bad?
Never played the original and don't really play on emulators. Was thinking about the switch release but it seems the cutscenes took a hit
>>
>>446488541
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
>>
>>446488541
Combat for 13 was brain dead, yes 10 was not hard but at least it was not press A to win with no strategy needed bs
>>
Because X constantly breaks up the monotony with distinct activities and plot developments, while constantly pushing your party towards its goal. Wakka's relationship with Chappu is fundamental to why things happen the way they do on Besaid, but the game doesn't just say this immediately. At first it just seems like Wakka is this fun happy dude who wants to be your friend.

X also does a very effective job of making Tidus likeable, as he's both this obnoxious, cocky goofball that dances and does weird stuff and then he's the narrator, noting his own failures and fears. Whereas Lightning is just lost in this gigantic, stupid plot for no explicable reason.
>>
10 has the best combat, swapping out party members for what they bring to the fight instead of everyone being cookie cutter was great.

>>446489410
You won't notice the difference, its the faces and I think most of the music was redone.
>>
>>446489410
Playing through the HD remake, a lot of the faces are really stiff but Yuna is almost expressionless.
>>
A simple answer. Sphere grid allows you to be flexible with how you train up your character to the point everyone is equal to each other stats wise aside from their overdrives.
The Crystarium system in 13 is super linerar with everyone having their own set path, you have to play a little over half the game for them to get new roles and you have to beat the game to get the complete version. Some characters completely surpass everyone else with the skills they get(lol faithra bravera, protectra etc)
>>
i love both ffx and ffxiii stay mad. also i like v-ix
>>
>>446488625
>>446488737
13 had plenty of side stuff as well. the game opens up as you continue playing

>>446488694
>muh buzzwords

>>446488959
13 had that too like sazh and nora
>>
>>446489531
I think 13 had a similar issue with 8, where the game mechanics do a bad job of capturing the player's interest - and I'm not talking about Grand Pulse. "Gets good 30 hours in" is a horrible argument. What I mean is
>FF8
From the beginning, you are told that you need to absorb magic from enemies to Junction. Actually, you can easily transform your items into the useful magic and rarely absorb from enemies - but your typical player will spend hours farming Scan and get bored, long before they reach this point.
>FFXIII
From the beginning, you are forced through pathetically easy battles where autobattle handles almost everything. Starting right after you get magic, the bosses will actually kill you if you don't paradigm shift correctly - but many players already got bored and quit the game. And they drop it thinking the entire game is pathetically easy.
>>
>>446488737
This. 13 is literally walking a straight runway for most the game.
>>
File: 1532830273682.gif (1.57 MB, 200x200)
1.57 MB
1.57 MB GIF
>>446490021
>opens up
All that's left at that point is grandpulse, cocoon, and oprphan's cradle and the last one doesn't let you replay the areas after you beat them.
>>
>>446490021
>i-it opens up at ch-10!
>literally better off just pressing on with the story and coming back post-game
>its just calm lands 2.0 with one or two branching side areas that force you to run around in a disjointed fashion doing the l'cie hunts
>spam death with vanille for about 5 hours to get your characters strong enough for the next hurdle
no thanks
>>
When will people stop believing linear is bad. I like a well written and directed linear game more than running around in a empty dead open world game/
>>
>>446490275
what does this even mean. how many games do you play that are linear? even games that arent linear are linear. its such a weak exuse to just say you didnt like 13 cause there was a black guy as a character.
>>
>>446488541
because all the characters of ff13 have as much impact and uniqueness as Kimahri. i cared for yuna and tiduses journey i don't remember why they went anywhere they did in ff13
>>
>>446488541
X was a generation behind XIII and still felt like it had a lot of things to do and see. XIII did not.
>>
>>446490265
The only times I had game overs in XIII were the first Barthandelus because I brute forced it with Light/Fang/Hope and had no SAB, and the final Orphan fight because of RNG death even with 3 armlets on Lightning.
>>
>>446490695
>I like a well written and directed linear game
FF13 is neither of those things.
>>
X has characters you care about at least
>>
>>446488541
Aren't most of the mainline FF games linear, though? Most of the time, you'll just have moments where you can visit old areas before the world shifts. X and XIII just happen to be at the very end and persist.
>>
>>446488541
FFX executed the linearity better.

Plus it also allowed you to backtrack (something XIII didn't)

>>446490021
>13 had plenty of side stuff as well
Not really. 13 had fuckall to do, same with 15. Both had hunts and that was it
>>
>>446488541
FFX has a much more fleshed out and interesting combat system, an in-story/thematic reasons as to why you're being railroaded that make more sense, and has actual NPC and towns instead of emails and wikipedia

every single element of a game can be good or bad, it's entirely execution. going THING A HAS THING AND IS BAD ALL GAMES WITH THING ALSO BAD is dumb and it makes you dumb for doing so
>>
>>446488541
Thinking of playing this after Yakuza 1, how does it run on PCSX2?
>>
Because being linear was never the problem.
Literally every JRPG is "Linear".

The difference is, FFX's areas were shorter, the paths were built into the terrain to give the illusion of walking on a cohesive world, and the story story was told through a sequence of setpieces, so when you came to the end of a hallway, you immediately forgot how linear it was because there was some big, graphically impressive shit going down. Also the story was smaller and easier to understand; you had characters with individually relatable conflicts (Tidus's fish-out-of-water story, Yuna's internal conflict, Wakka's crisis of faith, Rikku's conflicting accounts of history, etc), a clearly communicated ticking clock (Sin, the giant Kaiju that could be anywhere at any time), and a central conceit that was easy to understand. (Get Yuna to the end of her journey to defeat Sin).
Also the battle system is arguably the best in the series, and the game did a fantastic job of iterating on it and making each boss fight have a unique twist that was fun.

FF13, by contrast, gave you nothing to distract you from how linear it was.The paths you walked on were all floating in a cavernous void, even when you were traveling underground or in a forest, and the story was obtuse and obfuscated necessary plot points in a bid to be "deep". The main characters had no personal stakes in the story, and were only in it at all because the "gods" "Chose" them to do a thing, without ever telling you what that thing is. There's no central conceit, no ticking clock, no real reason to CARE.
>>
>>446491317
>that first time you backtracked from spheremorph to besaid to get all the jecht spheres and good blitzballers
pretty neat desu
>>
File: 1459604224263.gif (1.51 MB, 245x190)
1.51 MB
1.51 MB GIF
>>446488541
XIII came out during the console generation where it was cool to shit on JRPG's because of all the open world games and first person shooters.
The tutorials were too long and not being able to pick which party members I want until later on was annoying. And personally I didn't care for the battle system because I just never understood it. Yeah the game was linear but the characters were on a time limit story-wise.

I liked about 75% of it.
>>
File: wakka.gif (988 KB, 500x340)
988 KB
988 KB GIF
>willingly using kimahri
>>
File: happy.png (176 KB, 473x471)
176 KB
176 KB PNG
>>446488541
13 is shit and 10 isn't. Linearity isn't the only reason why people shit on 13, it's just the lowest hanging fruit. Same as 10's HA HA HA HA HA HA scene.
>>
File: u wot bastich.jpg (61 KB, 277x485)
61 KB
61 KB JPG
>>446488625
>other stuff to do
I swear to fuck if you're implying blitzball or dodging lightning bolts is fun
>>
File: giphy (21).gif (996 KB, 210x210)
996 KB
996 KB GIF
>>446491704
I want to give him a genuine shot on the switch version. Everyone becomes quick hit machines anyway
>>
>>446491841
i am one of 12 sages that understand how blitz ball works find the other 11 and you too can obtain this power.
>>
>>446489410

It's not bad per se, just not really an enormous improvement.
The biggest deal for me was having hd fonts and text and shit. The rest I could easily do in upscaled emulation.
I already had international version, and prefer the original OST.
>>
>>446492000
Fuck your trips I'm never leveling keepa again. If your name is keepa you shouldn't have a high fucking shoot score your destiny is goalie goddamn.
>>
>>446491841
How is he implying that? You're putting words in his mouth, but blitzball is fun. For a while, anyway.
>>
File: wakka 40k.jpg (462 KB, 1920x1200)
462 KB
462 KB JPG
>>446492131
may the jecht shot 2 work forever in your favour.
Yevon be praised.
>>
>>446490506
>all that's left at that point is 64 missions in addition to normal FF shit like stat maxing and item grinding
k
>>
Because XIII was multiplat.
>>
>>446488541
Not sure all FF games are linear
>>
>>446492000
I know how it works, it's just not fun. the entire game is just "have a bigger number than the other player to win" combined with coinflips
>>
>>446488541
Why do people still ask this? It's been answered and explained so many times already.
>>
>>446492285
>Because XIII was multiplat.

that means fuckall
>>
>>446492396
no it hasn't
>>
>>446492000

>that feel when you get to the Blitzball game and go in with dread, knowing that you;re terrible at blitz from plrevious plays
>that feel when for some reason it suddenly clicks you dont even see the code anymore
>that feel when you fuck up the Goers for the first time

It took me years to stop being fucking retarded but man it felt nice.
>>
>>446492285
>Because XIII was shit because it was multiplat
ftfy
>>
>>446492396
yeah and the answer is always bull. theres no reason you cant like both of them. theyre both good games
>>
FFX was linear in progression but the maps themselves were not literal straight lines. You couldn't get through FFX by simply holding up on the stick like you could in 13. Also, X had more to it than simply running through tunnels battling. You would stop, explore, talk to people, do little side missions, back track, etc. Also the characters and story were present and not put away in a log file to read.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMZMJDFe1kc
>>
>>446488625
Fpbp

10 his the linearity well and no, every level wasnt just a "hold up" corridor like XIII. Plus the character, setting, narrative, and game play were all fun in X. None of which is true for XIII
>>
>>446491841
Lets see

Lightning dodging
Blitz ball(unironically)
quactar stones in the thunder plains
Chocobo racing
butterflies
Baaj temple
Omega dungeon
cavern of the stolen fayth
Monster Arena/catching fiends
Cactuar nation
Celestial weapon side quest
That temple in the calm lands
Albhed translation
The dark aeons
Penance
>>
>>446492393
well my real opinion is if they hadn't hidden wakka's limit breaks and ultimate weapon and sigil inside blitz ball with an RNG on whether you even get a chance at winning it, people would not have been that bothered by it.

its like that card game in FF8 i still don't know how to play it and i don't care because its so inconsequential to the whole game.

>>446492482
i was happy when a friend told me if i swam with the ball into my own goal and hovered in front the enemy would just keep spinning even does it HD edition on the PC.
>>
>>446490619
fucking love the gran pulse meme

>the game gets good here!
>it's a shitty version of gaur plains from xenoblade
what a mistake of a game
>>
File: Sakurai blink.gif (835 KB, 280x280)
835 KB
835 KB GIF
>>446492285
...and?
>>
>>446488541
13 took 40 hours to get you into the game. You don't get 3 permanent combatants until you're 75% done with the game. This is EGREGIOUS given that the combat system absolutely relies ok having 3 members to he worth a damn. (Which to be fair, it is a very good system and is very fun to play... But holy fuck why would you not utilize it before the 40 hour mark?)
>>
>>446493158
>This is EGREGIOUS given that the combat system absolutely relies ok having 3 members to he worth a damn.

and then the game forces a boss fight where you can only use 2 party members and it's one of the worst fights in the game
>>
Because it took ff13-2 to fixed most of the original
s issues
>>
>>446493158
uhm no you can break the game wide open as early as the Sazh + Vanille part
>>
>>446488541
did anyone play ff13-2? it was a massive improvement over ff13 even if the story was a bit wonky.
>>
>>446493390
13-2 fell for the open world meme, and thus lost all the focus and tightness of FF13, both in terms of story and combat balance. also it had gratuitous fan service. shit game.
>>
>>446493295
Exactly. Every "2 party member" section of 13 needs to be stripped out, Because combat is trash with only 2.

That was 13s major flaw.

That and writing a narrative too chock full of proper nouns so that it doesn't make any god damned sense until you're half way through and start learning things the characters knew the whole time (but was just never told to the player)
>>
File: nani the fuck.gif (1.94 MB, 230x230)
1.94 MB
1.94 MB GIF
>>446493524
>13-2
>openworld
>>
>>446493395
>Break the game wide open

The fuck are you even trying to convey by those words?

The combat system relies on role permutations which are by definition incredibly more limited when you're given 2 specific characters, rather than being allowed to mix and match 3 of 6 characters.

Your statement is nonsensical.
>>
>>446491895
but auron is literally better than cat man auto leveled n all. armoured dudes don't even show up until auron does.
>>
13 had a shit story, a lame, confusing world, nothing to do in game, crappy music, characters no one cared about (except Waifufags) super on the rails.
>fal'cie good l'cie bad? What were they thinking?!

10 had a great story, lots of stuff to do, memorable characters, linear, but the world is vibrant, easy to understand and interesting lore, great music
>>
>>446488541
linearity isn't a flaw, but XIII's level design was god awful, everything was a corridor without exploration, NPCs, towns or atleast an illusion of it not being just a corridor
>>
>>446493572
the reason why I give that final two person "segment" (Vanille/Fang vs Hecatoncheir) shit it's because it's hours after you are given access to use which 3 man formation you want.

At least the other two man sections, it's early on and the game is designed around that.
>>
>>446491704
>>446491895
I tried this on my last playthrough
>expert grid
>only move tidus for haste pre-luca/highroad
>grind some OD modes on the sin fin battle to kilika
>use spheres on empty nodes and let everyone poach before going their usual way
>send kimahri to steal/use and then through Yuna's grid for big magic gains and utility magic
>Ends up having some decent stuff for Seymour fight
>Fire Breath did 6k dmg to each part of Gui on the operation mi'hen boss
its pretty nice but then you get to Highbridge and can't grind him so he lags behind.
>>
>>446492986
>>446491841
BTFO
>>
>>446493892
You don't know that Sazh's Blitz ability hits multiple times on large enemies, and you don't know how broken en- spells are, so you didn't actually explore the combat system at all.
>>
>>446492000
>>446492131
>>446492259
>>446492393
>not just grabbing Linna before Macarena Temple and Nap Shotting from midfield for goals
>>
>>446493857
yup. theme park design where you do whatever you like in mostly freeform order. it's shit.
>>
>>446488541
I am not a fan of FFX and i think this game marked the beginning of the end for FF but it did linearity better and right while FF13 did linearity for the sake of extending game time literally letting you run around for multiple hourse in the same looking dungeons fighting the same enemies with inflated health the with many environments being boring and even ugly like the waste mountains your run through to get odin.
BUT FF13 did difficulty better (at least when you play in manual mode not in auto)
>>
>>446494063
It seems like you're trying to form the words to say "sazh and vanille synergize well together", which in no way even comes close to addressing the comments made in the post you replied to.

What thread do you think you're in?
>>
>>446491841
If you don't like Blitzball you're pretty much a faggot.
If SE released a Blitzball stand alone game it would be GOAT
>>
>>446488541
FFX had towns and minigames. Shit to make you relax after fighting mobs and monsters.
FFXIII is nothing but fights and cutscenes.

A big strike however why FFXIII sucked ass is that it took way too long to open up gameplay. For almost half the game you don't even have a full party you could customize. FFX gave you everyone except Rikku right off the bat and even then you could make Kimarhi do her role.
>>
>>446494239
But gee, you were saying you couldn't use the combat system with less than three characters, which I have just shown to be wrong.
>>
>>446491510
Both games have equally obfuscated stories. In X people start talking about yevon, fayth, pyreflies, sending, the farplane, etc. and you have to infer what’s going on. It’s not hard but you don’t immediately understand everything the first time you play.
XIII is he same way. You start hearing things like Cocoon, Pulse, l’Cie, fal’Cie, focus, and you don’t immediately know what’s going on. But like X, you figure it out pretty quickly. I don’t know why people act like XIII is so obtuse and hard to understand.
You learn that Cocoon and Pulse are two worlds in conflict, and Cocoon is the “good one”. This is about the same as followers of Yevon, who are almost universally considered the “good guys” in X. You learn that fal’Cie are basically the “gods” of these worlds, and they choose l’Cie to be their instruments to carry out a focus, which is some kind of mission or task. You learn that if an agent of a fal’Cie fails, they turn into a monster called a Cie’th. Nothing about this is hard to understand. At best you could say the language is obtuse, but the concepts are not. The language has to be obtuse to give you the sense that this is a foreign world. X does the same thing. They’re not monsters, they’re “fiends”. It’s not a funeral, it’s a “sending”.
And what do you mean the characters have no stake? Their motivations are clear from the beginning.
For example, Lightning’s motivation is that her sister was chosen to become an agent of a Pulse fal’Cie (the bad one), so now she’s considered an enemy. In trying to find her, the whole gang gets turned into l’Cie for Pulse. This is basically right out of X, except in X the gang chooses to defy a Maester of Yevon instead of having it happen unwillingly and you get branded “traitors” in X much later in the game.
>>
>>446494395
If you couldn't USE the combat system without 3 people, you wouldn't be able to complete the first battle.

Stop acting deliberately retarded.
>>
>>446494525
No, you stop assuming that just because you don't get it, it's not there.
>>
>>446494498
>XIII is he same way. You start hearing things like Cocoon, Pulse, l’Cie, fal’Cie, focus, and you don’t immediately know what’s going on. But like X, you figure it out pretty quickly.

45 hours is not pretty quickly.
>>
also you only run around with two party members for half the game in FF13 which already has combat that borderline demands 3 party members making most of the fights a slog to get through.
>>
>>446492396
cope by XIIIfags
>>
File: 1508026747841.jpg (46 KB, 400x302)
46 KB
46 KB JPG
>>446494498
>Both games have equally obfuscated stories.

Hey now that's not true. No one is every truly alost about what's going on in FFX because various characters(Especially lulu) are constantly explaining what's going on to tidus(the player). 13 on the other hand never explains anything and expects players to read the datalogs to understand what's even being said.
>>
>>446488541
10 was another step in the wrong direction, not as bad as 8 but not much better either. Generally the only arguments I see in favor of 10 is either people who got blown away by the story or people who had it as their first FF.

I don't hate the game but it's incredibly boring with very unlikable characters and a shockingly dead world. Never bothered with 13, if you have sense you keep a wide berth around the FF series anyways, it's been hot trash for over 20 years.
>>
>>446493115
And >>446492537 is evidence that going multiplat made people hate it on principle. Never underestimate the sniveling vindictive Sonygroid.
>>
I refuse to believe that the majority of the people here are so brainlet that they couldn't pick up on the lore of xiii in context. The two worlds, the opposing machina, the monsters, the factions inside cocoon, this shit was not hard.
>>
File: mario doubt.jpg (77 KB, 655x902)
77 KB
77 KB JPG
>>446494195
>BUT FF13 did difficulty better
>Auto game over if the leader is incapacitated
>>
>>446494597
It's literally mathematically not there.

With 2 characters, you're isolated to:
>Two roles that compliment each other as well as possible (often not optimal because you don't have access to all roles)
>Stacking two of the same role for increased potency (almost always not an option because of which two characters you're given)

With three, you can choose:
>1-1-1 for maximum flexibility and cohesion
>1-2 for potency stacking with a specific support role behind them
>3 for maximum potency with little to no support / flexibility

It is BY DEFINITION more flexible, complex, and deep when you get your full party. Any cohesion before that is a shallow version of what you'd get with it, and more than likely purely accidental since your characters are chosen for narrative reasons, not mechanical ones.

You can't actually be this dumb, right?
>>
>>446494641
I understood this way before 45 hours, not sure how anyone can be this slow and then blame the game.
>>
>>446495314
What's wrong with that?
>>
>>446488541
One, because X takes time to set up its world, characters, and conflict, and gives the party an overarching goal that's immediately understandable (complete the pilgrimage to defeat Sin). XIII takes almost no time establishing any of those elements, and worse, most of the time is spent without any kind of overarching goal. Instead the characters are just blindly running from pursuit with no end in sight so the corridor sections feel tedious and forced, and when the characters do have some sort of goal in mind, they're often completely nonsensical or not thought out at all. The reason so many people latch on to Sazh out of all the cast members is because he's the only one with a goal that actually makes sense and feels relatable.

Also, XIII has awful pacing. X has constant pit stops at towns and travel agencies to let the party catch their breath. There's interesting plot developments as things advance, Cloister of Trials and some minigames to break up the monotony of the core gameplay, and every new environment feels like it has a place in the world that distinguishes it from the rest which also coincides with the aforementioned plot developments to give you progression, i.e. the sense that you're working towards that overarching goal. In XIII, there's nothing but interchangeable hallways for a huge bulk of the game. Barely any of them have any real reason to exist other than just to be the next level to run through and it's impossible to get that sense of progression when there isn't even anything to progress to. It's just battle after battle with nothing else to keep you motivated, and the combat really isn't good enough to support that for the game's entire runtime. The best part of XIII is the section from chapters 7-9, where the characters actually have some sort of motivating goal they're working towards and the environments actually feel like they have a purpose in the world that's relevant to those goals.

tl;dr: context and pacing matter a lot
>>
>>446489607
>swapping out party members for what they bring to the fight instead of everyone being cookie cutter
It took so long for them to solve basic shit like this that plagued the earlier games and then they scrap the whole system so we can go full MMORPG
>>
>>446495314
it is better no matter if that is the case sorry dude
>>
>>446495304
It wouldn't be a wide spread complaint about it if it weren't an issue.
>>
>>446495447
You have no idea how to play FF13, stop posting. I bet you use autobattle too, jesus.
>>
>>446493390
FFXIII-2 was fun but I didn't care for the monster recruit system and would have rather had human party members. Reminded me a lot of Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World. But I thought the battle system was improved and I liked the different locations.

I wanted to like Lightning Returns but the time limit was stupid. Yeah I can rewind time with battles but I shouldn't have to. I sort of wanted to take my time to explore the world so that's on me I guess. Also with it being the final game in the series I think the other characters got shafted, they barely contributed to the game. Battle system was better but I got tired of fighting over and over again to rewind the clock.
>>
>>446495536
Because there are literally narrative reveals 45 hours in that were not foreshadowed and meant to be twists.

Are you prophetic? Does your dad work at Nintendo? How did you know the twists before playing the game?
>>
Bad guy in FF6 was Kefka, FF7 was Sephiroth/Jenova, FF8 was Edea/Ultimecia, FF9 was Kuja/Garland, FF10 was Seymour....FF12 and FF13 I can't even remember...
>>
>>446495564
artificial difficulty. Especially when bosses cast Doom on the leader and it can't be dispelled.

and the final boss having a chance to inflict death on attacks and you can't apply 100% death resistance on the leader
>>
File: 1495837605672.jpg (21 KB, 372x331)
21 KB
21 KB JPG
>>446495774
>Oh shit he got me
>DeflectDeflectDeflectDeflectDeflect
>>
I played FFX when it first came out and I 100% the game. My cousin let me borrow the remaster a couple months ago and I just couldn't bother doing that again. I decided to start with the 200 lightning dodges and I just couldn't do it. I don't know if I just got worse at the game or if I had more patience back then.
>>
>>446495774
again i think ff13 as a whole is worse but yeah there is nothing dumber than people knocking FF13 combat or difficulty while they play on baby mode/automatic.
>>
>>446488541
>love X

Thats where you're wrong. It the earliest of PS2 JRPGs, but always garbage
>>
>>446495885
funny you bring that up, 12 is a great game but fuck i can only remember what the bad guy looked like. he was the prince of the invading nation, right?
>>
>>446495902
I'm gonna agree that the Death attack out of the final boss is kind of BS, but you know, the Doom clock is DPS race mechanic which is fine. Especially in FF13 where dealing max damage takes a little doing, unlike other titles.
>>
>>446495447
>purely accidental
Game design addresses this just fine. You never end up with two Healers going it alone in the two man segments.

Overall this is a dumb complaint. Of course 3 people with 6 roles is more flexible than 2 with 6. But every game starts out with fewer options and expands later on. You might as well be saying something as stupid as “why don’t i start with access to all equipment? that would open up more customization permutations!” You don’t start with 3 because you have to progress to 3. You start with some options and get more. What’s hard about this basic fucking video game concept?
>>
>>446495304
Regardless, XIII story was more shit than X. The story of X made the hallway enjoyable; XIII was the exact opposite. That's why the hallway criticism is more prevalent for XIII. Gameplay for both games were easy, but at least X wasn't entirely brain dead. All I did for XIII was apply buff, debuff, heal when needed, and press A to win.
>>
>>446495981
The only thing you did was display how you don't understand FF13, and thus how your opinions are worthless.
>>
People that use “linear” as a criticism are underage or retarded. All the the best games ever made are “linear”, and for good reason.
>>
>>446496214
you run around for more than half of the games story mode with only 2 people it was a dumb decision beyond measure.
>>
>>446494498
You're mistaking important plot points and set dressing.

Sure, you don't know who Yevon, Fayth, Pyreflies, etc. are right off the bat, but you don't have to. Even without the jargon, the story is very easily communicated.

>There's a giant monster destroying everything, you embark on a journey to defeat it

Everything gets more complicated from there, but within the first 20 minutes of the game, you're invested because you know the stakes, even if you don't know the proper nouns.

In FF13, fucking NOTHING is clear from the outset.
After the first few hours of the game, the conceit is
>You're a bunch of random people with zero prior history, chosen (but not really) by a god (who isn't a god) to do something (you don't know what)
The game intentionally withholds the story from you, which makes it impossible to be invested.
>>
File: images.jpg (11 KB, 355x142)
11 KB
11 KB JPG
>>446496123
>>
>>446488541
both also had awful characters and a shit story
>>
And if you don’t like FFX you haven’t played it. Fuck niggers and fuck the faggots in this thread
>>
>>446495885
FF13 was Space Pope WTF?
>>
>>446495815
I’m not saying I knew the fucking plot twists before they occurred you retard. But none of the supposedly confusing lore is a plot twist. The basic terminology is readily understood within a few hours, you’d have to be legally braindead not to understand the basics that I explained before 45 hours.
>>
>>446496361
>The game intentionally withholds the story from you, which makes it impossible to be invested.

It even kinda talks down to you on several occasions as if you are not worthy to even play the game its pretty arrogant towards the player on several occasions and makes you think SE thinks they are above everything and that their shit doesnt stink.
>>
>>446496018
Just wondering. Is there a benefit for not using auto battle?
>>
Because FF10 did linearity right and it made sense in the context of the story.
>>
>>446488541

I hate them both, but I hate XIII more.

VIII, X and XIII are shit tier.
>>
>>446496597
not really because Auto-Battle AI likes to use the AoE spells for some retarded reason
>>
>>446496597
learning the battle system its basically the difference between playing dmc on easy automatic vs anything else.
It makes many battles actually difficult and tense.
>>
>>446496597
You have full control. Autobattle is deliberately gimped. For example auto will switch between strikes and spells, even though doing so on the same ATB bar is inefficient.
>>
>>446496737
true FFX was a religious pilgrimage for 99% of its story
>>
>>446492986
>worst QTE you'll ever play
>ruined by being a menu-based turd
>interact with [object]
>autism
>run into [object]
>automatically solved as long as you didn't skip destruction spheres like a fag
>run around the save point for half an hour, then run through it with no encounter
>another corridor dungeon
>overkill dumb shit for 15 minutes until the thing you actually want appears
>somewhat innovative minigame ruined by the fact that you have to go back and forth on a shitty empty desert with your stick taped down
>maximum autism
>
>check every pixel on every screen
>bag of hp
>bag of hp
I'm not the other guy, but almost none of these things are fun. Well, the entire game wasn't even that fun with the corridor->obligatory boss fight loop and rather braindead gameplay
>>
What kind of battle system do you guys think they should use going forward?
>>
>>446488625
Not until the end of the game honestly. Most of it is railroad until after the scene where you interrupt seymour and yuna's wedding
>>
>>446495101
Having Tidus be as clueless about Spira as the audience was a great narrative conceit especially the second time watching through the laugh scene
>>
>>446496361
>Even without the jargon, the story is very easily communicated.

Even then, everything gets explained in pretty short order, or is obvious.
>>
XIII had a million problems aside from linearity
It also didn't have any characters as cool as Auron, so checkmate
>>
File: Woomy leer.jpg (66 KB, 577x524)
66 KB
66 KB JPG
>>446496541

>Fayth
>pyreflies
>fiends
>Aeons

>L'Cie
>Fal'cie
>Cie'th
>Focus

Focus is easily understandable to be mission but it's no surprise people are lost on the first 3 when they sound and look so similar.
>>
>>446497349
>What kind of battle system do you guys think they should use going forward?

turn based. SE showed that they can't do action gameplay for crap with FFXV
>>
>>446496074
>>446496749
X was good you faggots. Not the top 3 but decent at the very least.
>>
>>446496361
The stuff you wrote in parentheses could easily be applied to X. Yevon is presumed to be a god by the way people talk about him and pray to him. But he isn’t. You find this out later. Yuna has to do something (you don’t know what) inside each Chamber of the Fayth to get an aeon and then she has to do something (you don’t know what) to defeat Sin but for some reason Sin just comes back (you don’t know why). Oh by the way Sin is also Tidus’s dad (but not really). Auron is literally right there and he knows much of the truth, but it’s withheld for plot reasons. Similarly, everyone except Tidus knows what Yuna must do to defeat Sin, but they withhold it from him because again, the plot is more interesting when you find out what the “sacrifice” is later.
>>
>>446497863
>action gameplay for crap with FFXV
yeah what the fuck was that shit, felt like an indie game
>>
>/v/ is now just discovering that X is good game
Best FF game barring Tactics, IMO. It completely blows out FF7 in terms of characters, story, and gameplay.
FF7 is a great game too, but not quite as good as X.
>>
File: 1538265408487.jpg (178 KB, 749x1111)
178 KB
178 KB JPG
>>446498213
>yeah what the fuck was that shit, felt like an indie game

Casual Pandering, director wanted it that way
>>
>>446488541
X filled you in on the world as you played it. To understand what was going on in XIII you had to read the archives. They tell you almost nothing about the world and just expect you to do your homework with L'Cie and Fal'Cie.
>>
>>446497976

It was too linear, the story was retarded, and the characters were some of the most annoying in the entire franchise.

It's an irredeemable pile of shit.
>>
>>446496123
Vayne's problem is that they forgot to actually make him a villain. He's a ruthless political saboteur, but his actual goals are entirely noble; he wants to protect his little bro, and free mankind from the rule of a group of tyrannical gods, which the party themselves also want after they find out about it. By the end of the game there's literally no reason for the party to want to go after Vayne, but they still need a final boss so the writers really sloppily shoehorn in a last-minute conflict by saying that another group fired at Vayne's warship and his counterattack is threatening Rabanastre, so the party breaks in and kills him to stop the fighting.

It's also really funny to me that when they face him at the end, Vayne asks "Who are you?" to the team. In-context he's speaking more figuratively, but it's pretty fitting regardless considering that they've had basically no interaction with him for the entire game
>>
>>446497579
This.

PLUS, every new area you visit demonstrates or expands upon the world, the lore, and the story.
>Besaid: explains YuYevon, what a summoner is, and where the game is going
>Kilika: Explains exactly why Sin is bad, and demonstrates what makes Summoners valuable
>Luca: Demonstrates Blitzball and explains why Blitzball is important, while also giving us a slice of how daily life on Spira is, and hinting at how Yevon can be perverted, AND giving us our first major reason for Tidus to care, just in time for the "fish out of water" idea to wear out its welcome

There's even entire story segments that explain basic questions the player might have about the setting and the lore
>Why can't Sin be attacked conventionally?
>Are there people who don't follow Yevon? How do *they* deal?

and then ultimately
>Where did Sin come from?
>Exactly why is the world the way it is?
And literally ALL of this is explained organically over the course of the story. By the end, you know everything you'd ever want to know about Spira, and all without a single Data Log.
I really don't mean to suck that game's dick, because it's not perfect, and the story does have its own problems, god knows, but it is a story that is told well.

Meanwhile, FF13 tells you fucking NOTHING.
You never learn why Coccoon hates Pulse, you never learn where the Fal'cie came from, or what their ultimate goal is, you never learn why they can do certain things on their own and why they need L'Cie for others, and you can go through six or seven entire areas of the game without a single major plot point dropping, especially through the back half of the game.
>Hur dur data logs
No, fuck you, and fuck that. It doesn't matter what the story is, if I have to have a fucking Wikipedia open in another tab to understand the story as I'm experiencing it, it's a bad story, point blank, full stop.
>>
File: no sir i don't like sock.png (668 KB, 5000x2545)
668 KB
668 KB PNG
>x had a better story
>all of that dream bullshit

Hard disagree. XIII had flaws, and was worse than X in ways, but story was not one of them. XIII was clear-cut fighting fate on the run story.
>>
>>446493909
>crappy music
objectively fucking wrong. the OST is one of the few truly good things to come out of XIII.
>>
File: tidus.gif (1.96 MB, 268x325)
1.96 MB
1.96 MB GIF
>>446499252
>There's even entire story segments that explain basic questions the player might have about the setting and the lore
>Why can't Sin be attacked conventionally?
>Are there people who don't follow Yevon? How do *they* deal?

The best thing is that later we learn that operation mi'hen had the right idea about attacking sin directly. They just skipped a big step to really success(pacify sin with the hymn of the fayth)
>>
>>446499301
What was wrong with the dream "bullshit"? It was only a very small part of the overall story. A kind of weird twist to be sure, but hardly an asspull, as there was groundwork laid throughout the story, and hints that things didn't completely add up.
>>
>first half of the game paints jecht as an arrogant cunt and tidus as a faggot whiny son
>j-just kidding it's the most caring dad ever and all these sequences were my schizophrenia haha
>evil.mp3 plays
>i've come back from the dead for the 500th time to remind you that you should really stop living
>kimahri is a backdrop that gets about a minute of screen time
>auron is mute until [IMPORTANT EXPOSITION SECTION] where information spills out of every of his holes
>i'm a dead man who can hitch a ride on a fucking monster whale to another space-time altogether but i can still get physically fucked up in battle
>everybody in general has a fetish of hiding important information from each other
>i'm gonna disappear after we beat [thing], but let's not tell them about it until the important showdown with [thing] because they could use that morale boost
>meaningless talks about who lives, who dies, and risks only to proceed to continue with the initial plan
>we're gonna debate sacrificing one special snowflake whore that the whole world loves versus potentially letting the whale buttfuck entire continents for years to come
X's writing was really, REALLY fucking shit.
>>
>>446499252

It really is a nicely put together story.
They dont sit you down to just infodump at you really, it all just comes across pretty organically as it needs to.
>>
>>446498087
No, dude.
You flat don't understand what good storytelling is.

I think what you think I'm saying is
>The story withholds things from you, therefore it's bad.

That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying FFX *has earned the right* to withhold certain information, because it reveals enough at a steady enough pace to remain interesting.
Early on in the game, it doesn't MATTER what Yuna is doing inside the Chamber of Fayth, or exactly what Yuna has to do at the end of her journey, so long as you know it's in service of defeating the giant godzilla whale. It's only after some time in the game when Yevon's dogma is called into question that those things become relevant.
FFX Starts from a basic premise, offers you enough questions to start you on your journey, and builds up from there.

FF13 doesn't start from anything. There is almost zero central premise to build from in FF13. You have a bunch of random, nameless soldiers fighting in a nondescript Sci-Fi setting floating in space, and then the main characters go "Well, I guess we have to do something now!" and then spend the next 20 hours arguing amongst THEMSELVES exactly what it is they're doing and why. There's nothing basic to latch onto, no central idea from which the story can spring.

It's like the difference between Star Wars A New Hope and The Phantom Menace.

A New Hope has a young farm boy, an evil empire, and a gun that can destroy planets. The young farm boy has to destroy the giant gun. Simple. Easy. Good.

The Phantom Menace starts with trade disputes? And a battle over...something? And then it ends with a war on a planet for reasons, I guess? And there's a young boy who's important, but only if you already know the lore of Star Wars. You see the difference? There's nothing big and obvious to latch onto. No central conceit. The story assumes you're already invested, so it doesn't bother. That's FF13.
>>
File: benito-mussolini.jpg (147 KB, 1200x1200)
147 KB
147 KB JPG
I unironically think FFX is the only truly great FF.
I'm playing through the entire series for the first time ever as an adult after years of listening to people praise FF as the cream of the crop of JRPGs, and it's pretty okay. But X is the only one so far to really leave a lasting impression.

And yes, I even played VII, and while it was very enjoyable, it wasn't exactly the masterpiece I was expecting. It kind of falls apart after Disc 1.
>>
>>446488541
Sphere grid and the min maxing you could do with it were fun
>>
>>446495885
I like seymour. The game made it every easy to love to hate him. Even played with your thoughts for a brief moment when he was playable and maybe a genuine good guy. It's a shame 13 had no one comparable.
>>
>>446488541
XII > XIII >>>>>>> GARBAGE >>>>> X
>>
>>446501486
reminder that seymour did nothing wrong and caught onto the plot before any of the main characters did
>>
>>446501739
Everything after x2 is fanfiction and I won't hear otherwise.
>>
I feel like half of this thread is fresh off a "why X is better than XIII even if they share similar flaws" video
>>
>>446500164
>first half of the game paints jecht as an arrogant cunt and tidus as a faggot whiny son
>j-just kidding it's the most caring dad ever and all these sequences were my schizophrenia haha

I don't think they ever paint Jecht as the most caring dad ever. Even at the end Tidus is pretty much still "I fucking hate you, but understand you a bit more"

It wasn't until Jecht winds up in Spira that he even has time to reflect on being a shitty father and person. Him becoming the Final Aeon is his attempt at redemption
>>
File: Chocobo_Knights_Djose.png (3.48 MB, 1920x1080)
3.48 MB
3.48 MB PNG
It's a matter of execution. FFX was linear but the world felt more alive. You where always bumping into NPCs, watching their stories unfold and as you went there was a sense of progress. There was more color and there was just overall a lot more going on. With 13 the plot was an incoherent mess and you barely ever saw so much as a town.
>>
>>446501897
>similar flaws

Beyond the linear paths they don't have much in common. Also doesn't make 13 look good to be outshined by a ps2 game in most people's eyes
>>
>>446501181
I played through the FF series fairly late in life too, and I came to similar conclusions, though for me, FF6 is the best, very closely followed by FFX.

On an unrelated note
FF Tactics is the most overrated shit ever, and I'm 90% sure it's only praised because the people who played it were in highschool and easily impressed with a game that used words like "Forsooth"
>>
>>446499301
>XIII was clear-cut fighting fate on the run story.
No it wasn't. The dream bullshit, while bullshit, built on established aspects of the world. Pyreflies build things based on the dreams of the Fayth. If Fayth use them to make Aeons then Fayth can also use them to make people. Which is why Dream Zanarkand exists.

But the fighting fate shit? Okay so people get visions from the angels on what jobs they can do because they can't act against their programming. But Bartandelus just spells their focus out to them. And Orphan does the same. Titan can talk too. Why the hell they make it so difficult for people to figure out their jobs? Why does Bartandelus come up with that stupid ass plan to have the rebels attack Orphan themselves when it was established that only a L'Cie can do that? And if it doesn't require a L'Cie to do it then why wasn't that plan number one? Bartandelus knows that the rebels hate the government and they've been working in the shadows all this time anyway. Serah's Focus was to bring together people that could destroy Orphan right? We'll let slide that Serah's mission was to bring together people that weren't even marked yet but there's a worse problem than that. You see 4 out of the 6 were not necessary. Fang just needed to see Vanille suffer and she was willing to agree to any terms. Why did Lightning, Sazh, Snow, and Hope even need to show up?

Questions like these break the story because the plot is built on the premise of these people learning to fight their fate. When in reality they did exactly what they were fated to do and had to pray for a miracle
>>
I REALLY

REALLY

REALLY

REALLY

REALLY

LOVE YUNA
>>
>>446491704
He's okay as a backup stealer at first when you put him into Rikku's path then he can backup Yuna decently after following her path with Curaga and Holy.
>>
13 had nothing comparable to yunalesca. Screw that character and her battle style. It was so damn satisfying beating her.
>>
>>446502424
Why? She's so bland.
>>
File: 444.jpg (138 KB, 562x750)
138 KB
138 KB JPG
X has the best girl

>>446502424
This guy gets it
>>
>>446502176
>FF Tactics is the most overrated shit ever
Explain? Because i'm running through the game now and i'm highly enjoying it
>>
>>446502387
>they were fated to do and had to pray for a miracle
It's really stupid considering the Fal'Cie's entire plan was to get them to kill Orphan and the party just strolled in and did it without a second thought, without any backup plan to save Cocoon from falling, thereby doing exactly what Bart wanted, while still believing themselves to be fighting against their fate somehow
>>
>>446502013
>Even at the end Tidus is pretty much still "I fucking hate you"
You think so? I perceived that as Tidus just bluffing. You can tell by how weak and tearful his voice was when he said that line. Not to mention the high-five he gives Jecht at the very end. The entire cutscene right before fighting BFA was kino.
>>
>>446502986
Tidus was conflicted. He knew that Jecht had good reasons for disappearing and that he wanted to be a better dad, so he probably thought that he should forgive him, but it's hard to get over a lifetime of emotional resentment even if you know logically that those feelings are misguided
>>
>>446497373
Yeah I liked that, you learn right at the start that he's a dude who plays blitzball in a place called Zanarkand. You immediately get shown what blitzball is as well and you get shown the blitzball salute (which shows up later as the Yevon one). Then some monster calls Sin appears and wrecks things and Tidus gets apparently thrown into the future, where we follow him in his confusion as stuff is explained to him. It's all laid out pretty clearly.
>>
>>446498539
linear doesn't mean bad, it's story was mostly well done and I've seem far worse characters.
>>
>>446502863
It's a good game, don't get me wrong.
But if you're playing the original PS1 version, the battle system is broken as shit, and the story is nothing to write home about
>>
>>446501486
Seymour was based. A wild card in the grand midst of things who just wouldn't quit. I jist wish his final boss battle was actually challenging.
>>
>ffx characters get broken up about 2 or 3 times for obvious story related reasons and it works
>ff13 you're jumping betten different sets of characters for multiple hours for a good chunk of the game
>>
>>446503512
War of the Lions. I don't know how many changes were made to the story but I really like the one here for a lot of reasons
>>
>>446488541
The key differnces are:

>X has this thing called gameplay in its battles. Like, you have to directly control your entire party, and they all have a whole bunch of commands to choose from, as opposed to switching paradigms and watching what happens.
>X has optional content from the start. Optional bosses, towns to look around in with treasure chests to find, blitzball after a few hours, tons of NPCs to talk to, no level cap, so actual grinding, and more. XIII has running straight and battles for the first 20 hours. Then it has one large semi open area and more battles.
>XIII is built entirely from hallways, except one area, while X has hallways, but also areas designed more like those featured in classic FF games. Such as the jungle area you visit 2 hours into the game and others
>X's weapon customizing really played into battles well and added another level of depth to things, while a similar feature in XIII was just a way to make weapons stronger in a straight forward and linear manner.
>X let you use all 7 cast members in every battle if you wanted to, while XIII forces you to use 3 at a time
>X has puzzle based dungeons with no combat at all. XIII has no dungeons, just hallways and battles.
>call this one a cheat if you must, but X has the traditional FF victory fanfare, and XIII has that gay ass new one (even XV has the original fanfare for fuck sakes)
>X has an actual plot, while XIII often feels like a bunch of random shit the characters do because emotions.

I can go on. I we njoy XIII, as it's a fairly fun alternitive to standard JRPG gameplay and design, but X is just better. It wxists on a whole.other planet.

XIII is like a 6/10 that's enjoyable if you let it be, but is ultimately forgettable (if not for how bad it's seen as being). X is a solid 9/10 that only jaded assholes and non JRPG fans don't enjoy playing.
>>
>>446488541
I hate the characters from X so much that at some point I was cheering for Seymour. XIII at least had some likeable characters. But not having to play Blitzball makes XIII wins by default.
>>
>>446488541
because despite being linear, you actually do more than hold up on the analog stick in FFX.

That's literally all you do in FF13. Hold up till the next fight or cutscene. I didn't even hate FF13 as much as the average anon, the combat was cool and I even liked the story, but the overall gameplay was just boring.
>>
File: nick i.gif (902 KB, 403x306)
902 KB
902 KB GIF
>>446503556
>I jist wish his final boss battle was actually challenging.

He was pretty dang hard going in blind. And that music. My God that music...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWE0nlhpdq8
>>
File: 1478666220707.jpg (26 KB, 413x395)
26 KB
26 KB JPG
>>446503810
>at least had some likeable characters
Literally who?

Hardmode: no fucking Sazh
>>
>>446503810
I was cheering for the whale because Seymour was just as bad as the rest; fag with terrible design and a terribly cliched, overdone motive.
Also you don't have to play Blitzball unless you wanna get into minmax autism.
>>
>>446504024
>He was pretty dang hard going in blind.

You know what's weird? I remember the game being incredibly difficult when I first played it in 2002, when I was 13/14. I remember getting stuck at several points, and I remember it took me MONTHS to beat Jecht.

But I played through the HD version a year or so ago, with the Master Grid and everything, and just breezed through the entire game. Didn't die once.
I have no idea if I'm a better gamer now, or if I was an idiot child.
>>
>>446498263
FFX was my first FF and one of my favorites, but there's something about Materia and how they were glowing when socketed that i always liked more, it must be autism. I still like IX the most for some reason though.
>>
FFX was the first Final Fantasy for the generation of fags who started Final Fantasy with PS2, thats the only reason it gets talked about. I tried to play it on Steam and its shit, just not as shit as the rest of them.
>>
>>446504441
Younger me was not prepared for seymour on mount gagazet. Like at all.
>>
File: 1447859103812.gif (499 KB, 169x271)
499 KB
499 KB GIF
>>446504024
>finally determined to finish FFX afterunable to borrow from friend (stopped just after Seymour Flux)
>play International board in HD remaster
>reach Seymour Omnis
>use 1 Blitz Ace
>done
>>
>>446488541
Because it's loved by the same kind of people that love VII (retards).
>>
File: 1448815218425.jpg (18 KB, 320x320)
18 KB
18 KB JPG
>>446503556
>who just wouldn't quit
This is one of the things I like most about him. He never gives up or has that typical "oh shit I was wrong" moment; he so stubbornly wants to see his plan through to the end that he just keeps coming back over and over until Yuna sends him.
>>
>>446504614
It's basically FFVII for zoomers. Both are shit.
>>
>>446503306
Pretty much. Also Jecht had become a better person, but Tidus never got a chance to really reconcile with him. When they finally met again, Jecht had to die. Tidus might also have 'hated' him for that too... or at least hated that fate made things that way.
>>
>>446504936
>>446505064
if some of the best games are shit might as well say the entire series is mostly shit
>>
>>446502067
>That faggot that was bullied into joining the knights that found his true calling in the end and fucked off with his chocobos
>The guy from Besaid shaking and scarred from watching his buddy cut in half
The aftermath of that operation was beautiful.
>>
>>446504054
>you don't have to play Blitzball
That ten minutes game was already too painful to me. Not to mention the fucking tutorial.
>>446504037
Besides Hope I'm ok with the whole party.
>>
>>446505064
>Zoomers
>I was 13 when I played it
>I'm now 30

Honestly, I don't think "Zoomers" care about FF at all
>>
>>446505230
It is.
>>
>>446504024
Music in FFX was fucking amazing
>>
File: hank falcon.gif (2.95 MB, 444x338)
2.95 MB
2.95 MB GIF
>>446504773
>that one time I actually grined for early blitz ace when tidus first met riku early ingame
>completely obliterated seymour in his first battle with one blitz ace
>>
>>446498291
is Tabata the one to blame for XV? Can I point the finger at somebody in particular as the cancer of square?
>>
File: Final Fantasy 2018.jpg (358 KB, 1237x1099)
358 KB
358 KB JPG
>>446505340
>Honestly, I don't think "Zoomers" care about FF at all
They love BE.
>>
>>446505498
Holy fuck, anon. How long did that take?
>>
FF10 gets a free pass because it was the prettiest game in 2001 and this was a time when full voice-acting in games was still rare to see. I remember being blown away by the entire experience of it, I thought that graphics could never get any better than it.

t. boomer
>>
File: 1417070672467.gif (339 KB, 250x167)
339 KB
339 KB GIF
I feel awful for anybody who had to grow up with FF fucking XIII as their first.
>>
>>446505716
A good bit of time with making riku run away, waiting on tidus to learn loner, constantly skipping turns, and learning slice and dice and energy rain too. It's was completely worth it though and made the game even more enjoyable.
>>
>>446497169
>>ruined by being a menu-based turd
You're playing a final fantasy game you nigger lmao
>>
>>446506213
>waiting on tidus to learn loner
Oh god, all those different overdrive modes, always blew my mind when i got a new one back then, since i was young and played with no guides/etc.
>>
>>446488541
>holy shit these are a bunch of fucking idiots
vs
>holy shit son you couldn't have known you did everything you could and more

It's like comparing FEAR's silent protagonist with Portal's.
>>
File: 1522049472933.png (936 KB, 644x644)
936 KB
936 KB PNG
>>446488541
FFX has side-quests and mini-games but what does FF13 has beside hallways and a section with an empty but kinda open map? Even equipment and weapons are fucking useless in FF13. And let's not even talk about the battle system in FF13 which is basically spamming and mashing X.

Like seriously I have seen this argument so many times already like: hurr durr nobody hate the linearity of FFX as much as FF13!!
But really as retarded as this stupid argument is what you are you dumb nigger.
>>
File: IMG_1583.jpg (41 KB, 626x496)
41 KB
41 KB JPG
>>446505253
>The aftermath of that operation was beautiful.

>walking up to all the corpses littered in the sand and reading those short, emotionless messages
>Hymn of the Fayth echoing in the background

kino
>>
File: 1543535201646.jpg (75 KB, 640x480)
75 KB
75 KB JPG
>>446506167
You think that's bad? Imagine it being XV
>>
>>446506423
Blitzball was depicted way differently in the cutscenes, but then you get this limp dick game where you can only move in one plane, every time you want to make even the simplest of actions 9 other niggers teleport to form a circle around you while time stops and a menu appears, and stats solve everything. I understand the game's engine could only do so much, but at that point you might as well not bother having such a disappointing minigame altogether.
>>
>>446506915
FF15 isn't TERRIBLE.
It's very pretty, and enjoyable in a "Don't know any better" kind of way. It's acceptable as your first FF, if you can acknowledge that it's nowhere near the best
>>
File: 1518013653628.png (91 KB, 300x300)
91 KB
91 KB PNG
>>446506439
>most of the game: screw our focus we control our own lives
>Later: New plan. lets complete our focus.

>>446506730
It even better when you talk gada or whatever into going on the front lines instead of luzu.
>Tidus sees his body and tries to wake him up
>his body just fall to the ground lifeless
>luzu is completely distraught by his death when you talk to him a little later
>>
>>446506957
This so fucking hard

If you could just swim up or down it wouldn't feel so cucked
>>
>>446506957
I'm sure having controls on par with KH1's Atlantica would have been a much better alternative. I really don't know what else to tell you other than git gud pleb lmao
>>
File: shrug jo.gif (956 KB, 480x270)
956 KB
956 KB GIF
>>446506167
>tfw v was my first
>tfw really liked x
>tfw xiii is my favorite

Everyone always shitting on my favorite FF is a weird feeling. Though it's not so bad, ever since it was released on pc there have been more favorable opinions.
>>
>>446488541
X was linear paths from town to city to town.
XIII was linear paths.
How many npcs can you walk up to and talk to in XIII?
>>
>>446488541
FF X's story is very straight forward from near the beginning. The characters are well defined and you become emotionally attached to them and the story before the end. Very straight forward turnbased combat system.

FF XIII on the other hand has a very backwards way of telling the story, showing you flashbacks and only pieces of the story. Characters aren't really likeable let alone lovable. Combat system wasn't as good.
>>
>>446508104
>let alone lovable
i hate waifufaggotry so much. they want all characters to be big breasted airheads who constantly fall on the mc's dick
>>
>>446508272
you mixed up "fuckable" with "lovable" you retard
>>
>>446506579
there are valid arguments for both games hence why the discussion keeps propping up. it's not a universal consensus.
>>
>>446508272
I didn't mean it that way. I don't waifu fag towards any of the FF X girls, but the attachment you get with the characters towards the end is more towards lovable.
>>
>>446508503
fuck off waifufag. if you just masturbate BEFORE playing video games, you might be able to appreciate more than one type of character.
>>
>>446505527
The executives. Tabata's already been booted, and even then it wasn't entirely his fault.
>>
>>446508104
>combat system wasn't as good
Are you high, XIII has best ff combat system.
>>
>>446508649
>anon makes a note that FFXIII's characters are on the lower end of enjoyable characters
>you see the word "lovable" and assume waifufaggotry
again, good reading comprehension, retard
>>
>>446500917
>has earned the right
How to identify someone who has nostalgia for X: the post.

You're giving X liberties where you deny them to XIII. It doesn't matter what Yuna has to do as long as it's in service of defeating Sin? Why doesn't that apply to XIII? At this point the only way to prove you wrong seems to be to start the fucking game, so I've gone ahead and done that.
One of the first lines of dialogue you hear is "It's all right, I'm not a l'Cie." Already we've established a central premise that l'Cie = bad. It doesn't matter at this point what the fuck a "l'Cie" is just like it doesn't matter what the fuck Yevon is when Wakka first asks Tidus, "You remember the prayer, ya?" It doesn't matter, at that point all you need to know is Yevon = good. Of course that's not true by the end of the game, but this is the world of the game: most people believe Yevon is good. In the world of XIII most people believe l'Cie are bad.
No more than 10 minutes into the game you find out that Lightning used to be a soldier of something called Sanctum. What's that? Not sure. Then again, I wasn't sure what SOLDIER was that Cloud used to be a part of before he joined something called AVALANCHE. Next you hear about something called the "Purge"? What's that? Sounds important, we should remember it.
Not five minutes later do you find out that it's something bad. Lightning explains that people who get "Purged" are sent to a place called "Pulse", which is described as hell. So now I understand that l'Cie = bad, purging = bad, Pulse = bad. Why do people get sent to Pulse though? I guess we'll find out. My file has 10 minutes on it now and I understand what the bad stuff is, just like I understood that Sin was bad after about 10-15 minutes of X. In X there's a bad entity, in XIII we've established there's a bad place. In neither case do we know why the entity/place exists, just that there's something bad. So far nothing seems wrong to me.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GepZ5hM3nTw
Because it has better characters like Jecht and Auron
>>
>>446509023
>WWWWWAHHHH WHY IS THE SERIOUS SOLDIER NOT KAWAIIIII SHIT GAME
commit sudoku
>>
>>446509036
The things in X have grounding in real things. Yevon + prayer oh ok it’s some kind of religion. Purge + l’cie + pulse = who the fuck even knows. I know the terms and I still don’t even fucking know
>>
>>446509050
I'd love a prequel with those 3. It'd be an interesting experience.
>>
>>446509678
never EVER ;_;
>>
>>446509456
Then you're fucking dumb as shit. That's not the game's fault. Pulse is revealed to be a place 15 minutes into the game. You're telling me "religion where they use the blitzball salute as a prayer" is more grounded in reality than "Pulse is a place"? It's equally easy to understand. Yevon + prayer oh it's a religion. Purging + Pulse, sounds like people are being sent away to die.
>>
File: 1455473589894.jpg (84 KB, 736x960)
84 KB
84 KB JPG
>>446509378
That anon never went for claiming waifus, they just wanted characters that were appealing and not a drag to have to learn about for 50 hours. They liked the characters in FFX more than FFXIII, it's your autism that assumed the worst.

You absolute retard.
>>
X is linear but has stuff to explore, places to see, towns to visit, and characters to interact with. XIII has literal corridors with nothing to explore aside from the occasional chest or whatever. That's the biggest reason. It's incredibly repetitive. On top of that, XIII's story is horribly convoluted to the point that it's difficult to understand at times, compared to X's easily digestible story. As other anons have mentioned, X has a better cast, too. I think X has far from the best FF cast, but XIII's only good character was Sazh. Lightning was okay I guess but the rest varied from uninteresting to downright unlikeable (looking at you, Hope). I thought combat in XIII was fun, but not fun enough to redeem the game. XIII-2 was way better, I actually really enjoyed that one. Can't speak for LR.
>>
>>446509678
The thing is that it's pointless because we know Sin comes back 10 years later they just continue the cycle.
>>
>>446510002
>no if I just change my words a little he won't know I'm a drooling waifufag
Fuck off, I don't believe a word you're saying anymore
>>
>>446503797
>>X's weapon customizing really played into battles well and added another level of depth to things, while a similar feature in XIII was just a way to make weapons stronger in a straight forward and linear manner.

Another fun thing about ffx is that you can make your own ultimate weapons. They won't have the celestial weapons unique abilities like ignoring defense but you can become a magical murderer with the right setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_knGW_cEzHY
>>
>>446510269
It'd still be a cool experience to see how jecht got there, spira was 10 years ago, pre destroyed killika, younger party members, kid yuna, braska backstroy, etc
>>
>>446488541
I think the worst problem is that YOU CAN FUCKING WIN THE GAME JUST BY SPAMMING AEONS
>>
>>446491841
Even if it's not up your alley it's at least SOMETHING to do, unlike 13. 13 doesn't even get points for trying.
>>
>>446510825
That'd not completely true unless you're overpowered or pay to win.
>>
>>446510734
Prequel anime when?
>>
>>446509036
Again, you're mistaking plot and character for lore and set dressing.

While you're learning these things about l'Cie and Pulse, you're missing a LOT of the bigger picture;
Who is Lightning? Who is she fighting? Why is she doing what she's doing right here? Who are the bad guys and why are they bad? We don't know! And we won't know for HOURS AND HOURS.

The first 20 minutes of FFX are
>This is Tidus
>He's a famous Blitzball player with daddy issues
>Here's a giant monster destroying a city
>Now Tidus is displaced in time, because of the monster

Within the first 20 minutes, you know who the main character is, you know what he has to do, and you've had his main obstacle demonstrated. You know exactly what's at stake.

In the first 20 minutes of FF13, you get a bunch of jargon yelled at you, Lightning does some badass shit, and then more jargon. You can get a general sense of good-bad, sure, but you still don't know who Lightning is, what her story is going to entail, or who/what you're fighting against or why, and you have nothing to go off of besides the word of the character. Again, nothing to latch onto.

In FFX:
>Sin Bad
>Why? Because you see him destroy a fucking town.

In FFXIII:
>l'Cie Bad. Fal'Cie bad.
>Why? Because characters say so
>>
>>446511081
>pay to win
>>
File: 1488810795532.jpg (15 KB, 400x400)
15 KB
15 KB JPG
>>446510380
well i tried to help you comprehend a single post

too bad you didn't try, retard
>>
>>446511109
gee turns out that the l'cie = bad thing is propaganda by sanctum fal'cie

almost as if that's a plot point
>>
>>446510825
There's some bosses that kill them in one hit after the first attack you do they're not that useful late game
>>
>>446511338
no you just got mad and felt like you need to defend the honour of waifufags everywhere

you'll note that the poster of that comment replied to me with clarification, and he's not the guy i'm calling a faggot, it's YOU
>>
File: Yojimbo-FFX-render.png (177 KB, 350x417)
177 KB
177 KB PNG
>>446511246
Yes. Pay to win.
>>
>>446511470
Yeah,but you're still gonna use them all before you go through the normal party
>>
>FFX
>has side quests and side stories and revisiting all of the old areas
>FFXIII
>"opens up" at gran pulse
>literally the only thing you can do in Gran Pulse is Cieth Stone fights which aren't interesting or worth doing
>>
>>446511452
See when I read this I don't understand what it's referring to compared to being branded as traitors of yevon for "attacking" seymour in self defense. Hell I don't even get what Bartandelus's beef with the party in 13 either.
>>
>>446511570
You could only 1HKO one or two bosses and no one actually spent that much money to do the zandatsu or whatever the fuck the last tech was
>>
>>446511910
Zanmato can ohko nearly everything . Even penance if you paid him like 7000 gil and summoned him often to the point he does free attacks.
>>
>>446511848
Isn't it the same? The party is branded outcasts to provide the incentive needed to leave civilization and do epic adventure.
>>
>>446512380
Yes but we never really get a handle on what that actually means because the actual civilization is retarded and the game throws you a whole dictionary of made up chunii jargon.
>>
>>446511109
Again, come the fuck on. You're deliberately giving X more credit and withholding it from XIII. Frankly sounds like you're basing your criticisms of XIII on my posts about the game and not the game itself, as if you've never even played it.

>This is Tidus
>He's a famous Blitzball player with daddy issues

>This is Lightning
>She's a former soldier with a serious attitude

What exactly is the difference here? You have a surface description of both characters. You don't know shit about Tidus other than he's a star athlete and something about his dad. Being a star athlete isn't a personality, it isn't a plot, it isn't anything. It's an attribute. It reads like how they would advertise the game in a commercial. "Meet Tidus, star Blitzball player of the Zanarkand Abes! Tidus is about to go on a journey that will change his life!" Within the first 20 minutes you have an absolutely surface understanding of the character. By your logic this should be a bad thing, but you're doing mental gymnastics to convince yourself that this is good in X but bad in XIII. I think this is a totally fine thing, because it's a game and we have plenty of time to learn more about the characters. "Tidus plays sports" is good enough to start. "Lightning is a serious ex-soldier" is too.

>Here's a giant monster destroying a city
>Now Tidus is displaced in time, because of the monster

>Here's a train taking people to a hellish place called Pulse to be purged from society
Do you know what happens next? Next there's a cutscene where an announcement plays thanking citizens of Cocoon for voluntarily relocating to Pulse (wait, what? the place described as hell 10 minutes ago!?). 20 minutes in and we've established that the Sanctum is taking people to a hellish place to die and then lying about it to everyone else.

In FFX:
>Sin Bad
>Why? Because you see him destroy a fucking town.

In FFXIII:
>Sanctum Bad
>Why? Because they just fucking lied about genociding their citizens.
>>
>>446512598
Yeah, the other anon was right. You're being selective.
>>
>>446512380
I honestly don't know? The story in 13 felt like it was on autopilot most of the time.
>>
>>446488541
FFX is linear like a melody, with the characters, events, and locales following a clear narrative. FFXIII is a cacophony where the goals, locations, and cast changes are all disjointed and you can never grasp a solid goal besides reaching the end of the current hallway. And I realized the entire game was going to be like this less than an hour into it.
>>
>>446513179
It's like Final Fantasy by way of Micheal Baye. You never really get a chance to digest things and it's all just noise and jargon and crap.
>>
>>446511609
>finally have a permanent city area in 13 near the end
>only about 4 or 5 npc hiding in a hallway fearful for their lives
>>
>>446490701
Late response but clearly you didn't play both games. I meant that literally, in 13 most of the time you are headed down a straight path, X isn't like that most areas are open. Also XIII is just more restrictive in general.

>hurr black character
Holy fuck kys moron I won't even entertain this brainlet remark
>>
>>446512676
>This is Tidus
>He's a famous Blitzball player with daddy issues

>This is Lightning
>She's a former soldier with a serious attitude

>What exactly is the difference here?
Two main differences
One, Tidus having "Daddy Issues" shows us pathos, and endears him to us. Character writing 101.
Lightning having "attitude" doesn't give her a personality trait, or gives us any reason to relate with her.
Two; The BIG difference is in the very next line, where Tidus has something direct and obvious happen to him where Lightning doesn't, and then when she does, the main characters argue for the next 20 hours about exactly what it was and what it means.

FFX
>Give us a character
>Show us he's got something going on under the surface
>Thrusts him into a compromising situation

FFXII
>Give us a character
>Show us how cool and badass she is
>...?
>Profit

>Here's a train taking people to a hellish place called Pulse to be purged from society
Sure. But not Lightning. The train and the Pulse and the Genocide bit is nice world building, but it's not CHARACTER building, which is what the story desparately needs right now. We have no idea why she cares, or, in turn, why *we* care, and 98% of what we DO know is taken from word-of-mouth, not demonstrated. The game *tells* us instead of *showing* us, which is a rookie mistake.
>>
>>446507657
literally me
>>
Not really on the topic of linearity, but:
>get a bunch of junk items from battle
>can't find a use for them
>remember FF12's bazaar system, sell all the junk
>hour later tutorial tells me "Nope, those were needed for upgrades."
Not that it really mattered, since the only things worth upgrading were in Gran Pulse, where all the worthwhile materials were and where the game just up and gave me more gil than I had acquired for the entirety of the rest of the game.
>>
File: beito ansem.jpg (91 KB, 586x540)
91 KB
91 KB JPG
>>446511109
this is like seriously word for word from that shitty literally who youtube video
>>
>>446514250
Yup.
Doesn't make it any less accurate
>>
>>446514250
It's also like calling the sky blue. Just because the weather man says it doesn't mean you're not making a point.
>>
>>446489492
Almost 20 fucking years and nobody saw the sarcasm in that scene apparently.
>>
>>446514160
That's another thing that bugged me about 13. There was literally no effective way for money grinding. All you had to do in X was fight One eye over and over and sell all that triple overdrive, overdrive to ap, triple ap stuff for quick and easy cash.
>>
File: Shino pointer.png (210 KB, 608x600)
210 KB
210 KB PNG
>>446514458
Just because it was "sarcastic" or "Ironic" or "SHIT ON PURPOSE" doesn't mean it wasn't awful. People got it fine. It was just terrible.
>>
>>446514483
U wot, just beat long gui and pawn the trapezohedron. Easy lodsemonies.
>>
>>446488541
Why do so many Japanese swords from JRPGs look ... harmless. Tidus' sword looks like it's basically a glass stick with no edge. Like you'd beat someone with it, not cutting anything.
>>
>>446514348
>>446514445
It was a very biased, shitty video that presented lightning dodging as a pro over xiii.
>>
>>446512676
The issue is the overarching plot. Okay so let's talk about the overall goal and why for both games. And please challenge me on it. If you feel like i'm being unfair to 13 or too lenient on 10 hit me with it but there are far more things 13 wants you to accept when they seem to break the internal logical of the world.

>X
So the goal is to kill the space whale that's killing everyone else. Yuna and friends just go with the flow because that's the dogma that's been ingrained into them for 1000 years. It took a true outsider to make them look at things from another angle. Yuna needs Tidus to help her find another solution. Tidus needs Yuna to force him to grow up and fight for something other than himself. The game is about escaping the legacy of those that came before and it succeeds. Yuna overcomes the legacy of her father and the legacy of the summoners and Yunalesca.

>13 this one is far more difficult to call consistent. The game is about fighting fate but at the end of the game everyone just accepts their fate and hopes for the best. X presented the nuances of its world through its characters but 13 uses datalogs... assuming it follows up at all. Like how Fang warns about not approaching Bismark but if you do then you don't encounter Bismark. You encounter regular mooks. Seymour is an ass but you can see where his logic comes from even if it's wrong. If everyone is dead they can hang around as unsent. It's the jealousy of the living that turns them into monsters, if everyone is dead there is no jealousy. Also hus signature Aeon literally has Death as its secondary effect. Bartandelus is an angel that wants everyone to kill him but the heroes have no reason to do that. If they kill him they die. If they don't they also die but everyone else is saved. And the game never addresses that. They conned the masses into trying to kill Orphan but they can't do that. So Lightning doesn't be threatened by this.
>>
>>446513838
They literally showed us off the bat that lightning was a siscon. What are you on about.
>>
>>446514858
I don't know man. Japan is obsessed with making all their weapons seem unique but only ever result in making them look like a Fisher Price toy. I blame kingdom hearts
>>
>>446514598
Then what the fuck are you whining about?
>>
File: 1520890893715.png (559 KB, 1024x580)
559 KB
559 KB PNG
>>446514458
>go fight turtle
>it casts ultima
>it the stomps and kills whoever surived
>>
>>446514889
Then you shouldn't have any problem actually arguing the point made instead of whining about a youtube bogeyman.
>>
>>446511109
>You can get a general sense of good-bad, sure, but you still don't know who Lightning is, what her story is going to entail, or who/what you're fighting against or why,

Do you expect to know all that from the first 10 minutes? yikes man a story can develop in a couple ways. In X you don't know why until much later, and sin isn't even evil necessarily.
>>
>>446515112
Im not the one whining. You're the idiot who said people didn't "get it."
>>
>>446515008
>if they don’t everyone else is saved
Yeah, because bart totally can’t lure more hapless citizens into the vestige.
>>
>>446488959
That article was fucking hilarious.
>The pervading theory though, was that Japanese men were in fact attracted to western women but were just too intimidated to do anything about it

Suuuuuuure thing, toots. If you say so.
>>
This series has been such a disappointment. The last great one was IX. Just go back to airships and crystals and princesses falling in love with dudes and moogles why did we need cars and modern stuff next to dudes with swords casting magic spells riding flying boats to outer space to meet Moon Wizards.
>>
>>446513179
That being said the game still does have it's moments. I think it's pretty enjoyable still.
>>
>>446513838
She doesn't really have attitude, I didn't mean "serious" and "attitude" separately, I meant "serious attitude" as in she acts serious. And daddy issues is such a fucking tired cliche, every single movie, TV show, every main character always has daddy issues. I guess when you said "Character writing 101", the emphasis was on the "101" part. This is not endearing whatsoever, but even if it were, it nevertheless doesn't change the fact that it's a surface description of the character.

>Two; The BIG difference is in the very next line, where Tidus has something direct and obvious happen to him where Lightning doesn't
Irrelevant. Something direct and obvious happens in the world. You just heard she was part of this so-called bunch of liars, "Sanctum", so maybe she cares. But even if she doesn't, that's fine because not every story is like that. Some stories are about the characters, some are about the world and the characters just happen to be caught up in what's happening to the world. In XIII the first thing that happens is to the world, stuff does happen to the characters, but not right off the bat. There's nothing wrong with that, nothing happens to Cloud in the first 20 minutes of FFVII but people still proclaim it the best game ever made.

>but it's not CHARACTER building
You're just moving goalposts and frantically trying to adjust your criticisms so they only apply to XIII and not to X. In your previous post you asked for "plot and character". Now rather than admitting there is plot you've shifted to "yeah but what about the character?" Except your only argument about character basically boils down to "I like that Tidus has daddy issues but I don't like that Lightning is serious". That his issues "endear" him to you is entirely subjective personal preference. Objectively speaking daddy issues and acting serious are both equally mundane traits.
>>
File: tidus 1.jpg (55 KB, 981x552)
55 KB
55 KB JPG
>>446515282
>Do you expect to know all that from the first 10 minutes?
I expect enough to know enough to care about my protagonist or why Im watching his story, yes.
>>
>>446488959
>obnoxious horse faced white woman no doubt raised by wealthy affluent family literally can’t fathom the possibility that people thousands of miles away of a different race and creed didn’t all want her because her hair was different from theirs
>>
>>446515008
>If they don't they also die but everyone else is saved.
Why would that be the case? Bart already manipulated the Calvary, and everyone else on Cocoon into killing each other and attempting to destroy Orphan. Ragnarok is just a more efficient method of doing so.
>>
>>446515282

>Do you expect to know all that from the first 10 minutes?

YES.

BECAUSE YOU DO IN FFX.

Not the *whole* story, obviously, but the broadest possible strokes of who the main characters are, and what their main challenge will be.
You get that in 10. You don't in 13.
>>
>>446514858
>implying that edge isn't sharp as anything

You could fashion a sword out of ice and kill with it you're just a brainlet
>>
>>446515636
That's not ice.
>>
>>446488541
X has a better battle system and a pretty good twist.
Both are still overall bad, ffx less so.
>>
>>446515428
>Just go back to airships and crystals and princesses falling in love with dudes and moogles why did we need cars and modern stuff next to dudes with swords casting magic spells riding flying boats to outer space to meet Moon Wizards.

Shut up boomer. Also 7 an VIII were advanced worlds, X is as good or better than 9 too.
>>
>>446513264
Well considering the first hour it FF13 consists of a matrix fight on a train ride while neon armored dudes summon cyber dinosaurs using warp gates to fight retarded people in a giant floating robocaccoon I think everyone figured out it’d be a joke immediately.

I honestly haven’t met a single person that has ever actually said they liked it in person.
>>
>hope is a shitty character
>why
>he spends half the game being a brooding angsty shit wanting to kill snow

Hot damn, a kid is messed up because he has to be around a man that essentially killed his mother and struggle with his desire for vengeance and justice against the rational thought that murder is wrong.
>>
>>446515470
Not all stories are the same anon and there's no reason they should be.
>>
>>446515797
No it isn’t and neither was VIII. VII was good tho.
>>
>>446515636
You do realize that materials become more brittle when they're thin? Ice ... hell, glass ... would shatter before if it was swing at human flesh and bone with the usual force that swords are swing. You're not cutting shit.
>>
>>446515008
>>446515595
>The game is about fighting fate but at the end of the game everyone just accepts their fate and hopes for the best
I thought they did it well. The whole game was them trying to fight fate and coming up short, what with all of Oerba and fighting Bart on a broken highway (a literal end of the road).

At the same time however, in keeping with the purpose of the eidolons in not giving up entirely. They still choose to save Cocoon instead of turning into Ragnarok and destroying it.
>>
>>446514858
ackshully, it's a lava lamp
>>
File: Wakka_Chappu_Brotherhood.png (3.31 MB, 1920x1080)
3.31 MB
3.31 MB PNG
>>446515713
Not the point, it's a sharp hard hitting sword. The design isnt even that impractical.
>>
>>446515008
There's also the matter of scenarios. In X you're on a linear path but the tone varies. Besaid is slow because it's your first real introduction to Spira, Kilika is somber because a bunch of people just died, Luca has some levity to it, Djose things try to slow down again after the action that was Mi'hen. Now go to 13... you probably notice there aren't a lot of cities in this game. Because there can't be. Everyone is public enemy number one and they can't stick around. So a lot of the game are in wilderness's where they only have each other for company and you don't have time to experience their world. I didn't say explain it, there's a lot of verbal diarrhea explaining things. But we're never actually see it. We see people going nuts over Blitzball. We see them hating the Al Bhed. We see people trying to raise animals only for them to be attacked by fiends. And we see them fanatical about Yevon even doing mental gymnastics to justify when they're doing blatant wrong. Because this is all they know, they're dependent on these corrupt people. 13 sort of does this but it doesn't commit to it. Rouche exclaims that the people of cocoon don't want to slaughter their own people but the news broadcasts show that people want more purges. Lightning explains how Carbuncle makes food but we never actually see it, it's almost flashing light in a sea of flashing lights.

It all boils down to. For me personally I can see how Spira might be a real place. There are oversights but they are usually very small and don't break the plot. But the plot of 13 can be broken by several questions. What's more I don't believe it as a real place.
>>
>>446515610
You do get that in xiii. Everyone on the trains is getting shipped off to be purged because of the vestige. Pulse is the bad guy, pretty blatantly said. Cocoon inferred not so great since they turn on their own.
>>
>>446516286
Who cares if it's sharp? One of the weapon types in this game is a beach ball. A magic water sword can be completely blunt and still arguably hurt things.
>>
>>446515610
>YES.
>BECAUSE YOU DO IN FFX.

Cringe. Why does XIII have to be like X again?
>>
X's combat was boring as hell because it kept giving you the exact same enemies.
>It's another flying insect
>It's another evasive doggo
>It's another armored enemy
>It's another elemental
>>
>>446516430
>Rouche exclaims that the people of cocoon don't want to slaughter their own people but the news broadcasts show that people want more purges.
Is that not consistent with everything we know about Cocoon? Dysley has them living in fear of Gran Pulse so much that they are all shitting themselves at the idea of an invasion by the end of the game when everyone on Gran Pulse has been brown bread for years.
They may not want to kill their own people but they still are deathly afraid of Gran Pulse. The entire plot revolves around this fear.
>>
>>446515362
And they could come to the same conclusions. Assuming they do at all since all they have to go on is a hazy dream .gif that they only see once and they have no context for.
>>
>>446516286
>sword designed like a fish hook
Tell me, son, what happens when a fish bites on a hook? Will you easily remove that hook to pierce the next fish, or does it get stuck in their cheek because that's what it's designed to do?

Regardless, the conversation is moot because the sword material is unknown. But no natural man made material with that appearance is going to cut an arm off.
>>
>>446516607
Blitz balls are thrown really really hard though
>>
File: 1234523854999.png (104 KB, 320x287)
104 KB
104 KB PNG
>>446515463
>And daddy issues is such a fucking tired cliche
>cliche
Not him, but daddy issues are cliche, sure, but being a generic, cold, bitchy action woman somehow isn't? XIII easily has the most boring and archetypal cast in the franchise. That said, the cliches don't matter nearly as much as what you do with them. Tidus and Jecht had a great dynamic. What's remarkable about Lightning?
>>
>>446516430
>In X you're on a linear path but the tone varies. Besaid is slow because it's your first real introduction to Spira, Kilika is somber because a bunch of people just died, Luca has some levity to it, Djose things try to slow down again after the action that was Mi'hen.

I am genuinely impressed you are able to remember all that.
>>
>>446516890
see>>446515595
I think you misunderstood the story. Ragnarok was one means of killing everyone on Cocoon. Dysley had also manipulated the populace using fear to destroy Orphan themselves, which would also result in everyone dying. It was another way of Dysley demonstrating that they could not avoid confronting Orphan. They could not simply do nothing.
>>
>>446516430
>x does thing
>xiii does same thing but it doesn’t count
Can you even hear yourself? The locales breaking up the frantic rush of the public enemy number one, the parts where they slow down, just don’t matter since it’s not x i guess? X exposition dumps are great, but xiii exposition isnt? The god machina that makes food needs to be shown in an apron to make it believable?
>>
>>446517065
Well good thing I'm not putting it in Seymours mouth you fucking IDIOT!!!
>>
>>446516890
There’s also the fact that ignoring your focus turns you into awful mindless monsters.
>>
>thread devolves into argument over which of the two worst FF games in history was slightly less shitty

How did this happen
>>
>>446517478
Neither of these games are FFII
>>
File: 00serpico1.jpg (136 KB, 411x502)
136 KB
136 KB JPG
>>446517478
This isn't an XV vs XIII thread though
>>
>>446497863
They can still do action stuff but the problem was that Tabata admitted to making a conscious effort in casualizing the combat so its "simple". They just need to develop it under a specific system
>>
>>446517478
Was that not the point of the thread from the OP?
>>
>>446517280
What the fuck does that even mean? What do giant man-eating plants have to do with you not being able to take a compliment?
>>
>>446506167
Why would you feel sorry for people playing a fun game?
>>
>>446517478
I don't see FF4 or FF2 being talked about anywhere
>>
>>446506167
>III was my first followed by I and VI
>Have played VII, VIII, X, XIII and XV since then
>Enjoyed all of them
I really do not understand why people have so much trouble enjoying video games. Most FFs are very flawed but are still enjoyable. I don't find it hard to believe that /v/ may just not like video games at all.
>>
>>446517478
But we're not talking about 8 or, well 8.
>>
File: Spoiler Image (118 KB, 356x280)
118 KB
118 KB PNG
>>446516721
Hey. come a little closer :3c
>>
File: fb-preview.jpg (106 KB, 600x315)
106 KB
106 KB JPG
>>446494252
You mean this? Ffx pretty much just straight up stole the mechanics and added really bad progression and leagues on top. Works much better as a shorter campaign.
>>
>>446516430
>I can see how spira is a real place
What sort of insane nightmare world do you live in where everyone and everything looks, dresses, and acts like a clown and people fight Godzilla with beachballs? FFX is a tonal and atmospheric nightmare, nothing about its story or setting makes any sense or is coherent in any way shape or form in any context literally ever.
>>
>>446516286
I liked the bubbles and how they even appear in dissidia
>>
>daddy issues is such a fucking tired cliche
Not gonna argue that, but it's still something. It's more than Lightning got.

>that's fine because not every story is like that.
Of course not. But FF13 being a character-based JRPG dictates that it does.
If the game was going to be a city builder or a puzzle game or an RTS, then sure, the worldbuilding can take the place of the story and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But in a JRPG, where I'm being asked as a player to follow this handful of characters through 40+ hours of story, then I'm going to need a clear and immediate reason to give a shit about these characters, specifically, and that's something that 13 is loathe to do.

>nothing happens to Cloud in the first 20 minutes of FFVII
The fuck you talking about, kid?
Okay, FF7 isn't a shining beacon of storytelling, andI really didn't want to bring YET ANOTHER game into this, but 7 does shitloads more with its first 20 minutes than 13 does, just with Cloud alone.
>We learn unambiguously who the "good guys" are, who the "bad guys" are, whose side he's on, and exactly why he's fighting
>We learn he's got a past with the people he's fighting against
>We learn he's still very new to this whole thing
>And we get a nice explosion to put an exclamation point on the whole thing, and show us he means business.
We learn WAY more about Cloud in the first 20 minutes than we learn about Lightning in the first three hours.

1/2
>>
>>446517238
Not him but why? Most of the stuff that happens in 10 leaves a lasting impression.
>>
Whoops, forgot to link
Sorry about that
>>446515463
>>446518662
2/2
>Now rather than admitting there is plot you've shifted to "yeah but what about the character?"
Worldbuilding isn't plot.
The "plot" of FF13 doesn't kick in until the characters become l'Cie, and even then, it's not clear what that means or what the characters should do, which is bad storytelling.

>Objectively speaking daddy issues and acting serious are both equally mundane traits.
Wrong.
"Daddy issues" imply the character has a reason for feeling the way he does, which means he has a history, which causes the player to ask questions without obvious answers, which is how you invest someone in a character.
Lightning being "Serious" isn't even remotely comparable.
>>
>>446518456
>where everyone and everything looks, dresses, and acts like a clown
People where stupid shit all the time in real life
>people fight Godzilla with beachballs
Also guns, swords and magic. In fact, I think the ratio of using blitzballs as a weapon to other weapons is pretty slanted in favor of the latter.
I don't even necessarily think you're wrong about the world of FFX being incoherent but your only two examples are pretty awful.
>>
>>446518456
I wouldn't want to be hit by this thing. I'm not sure how it's even supposed to be held actually.
>>
>>446518703
The only thing I remember from 10 was Yuna being a whiny baby and that fucking chocobo race you had to get under 00:00:00 on. X-2 Yuna was much better, anyway.
>>
>>446488541
FFX had an entire set path of well designed encounters that were tailored to your party, with a system that encouraged party switching to deal with enemies.

Then it branched out and started throwing difficult enemies at you by the time you get to the desert area, which forced you to improvise and really use your party well. You'd come across Sand Worms that had so much HP that you either needed to debuff it, buff your party, use gravity spells, and so on. You had to man up and fight Aeon type enemies like the Zu with just your party, using every status effect and method at your disposal.

On top of that FFX has actual CHARACTERS.

Tidus, the water football sports star, who lived a charmed life, who gets isekai'd to a whole nother world and is way out of his depth, who grows up while also passing on his values and new viewpoints to people he meets and blunders into

Yuna, the daughter of a world savior who continues in her father's overshadowing path out of a sense of duty and a lack of self-worth.

Wakka, the deeply religious but fun-loving brute of a man, a guardian of Yuna and who gives up his dreams just to help her, as her uncle.

Lulu, a surly mage who doesn't talk much, but behind her venom lies a motherly woman, who is quick to help Tidus with his misunderstandings.

Kimahri, a quiet lion man, who happens to be Yuna's adoptive father by way of promise to her biological one. All business and doesn't even speak for the first 1/4th of the game, until he finally opens up after Tidus gains his trust.

Auron, Tidus' mysterious protector, and like an uncle to him. Quick to cut the bullshit immediately and give things to people straight, and acts as a mentor for Tidus. His stoic nature is simply because he's wise to the corrupt ways of the church. Carries a bottle of booze so dank it sets tornadoes on fire and makes black holes, because holy shit this man has seen all the shit.

FF13 doesn't do characters.
>>
>>446515797
fucking FF1 has a floating scifi castle and a mecha monster. it was always science fantasy.
>>
>>446488541
X has a great story and characters even if the gameplay was a little lacking.
>>
File: auron nope.webm (2.9 MB, 540x304)
2.9 MB
2.9 MB WEBM
>>446519526
>Carries a bottle of booze so dank it sets tornadoes on fire and makes black holes, because holy shit this man has seen all the shit.
Welp. My sides are done
>>
>>446519508
cringe
>>
>>446518662
>a puzzle game could have a central event like a government genociding its own citizens and lying to the people about it
>but this doesn't belong in a JRPG
Please be serious. By this logic, Sin destroying Zanarkand in the first 20 minutes, which you mentioned explicitly as one of the reasons X has a clear plot, is merely worldbuilding and doesn't belong in a JRPG.

>>446518770
Right, and Lightning being a former member of the Sanctum military, the entity which purges its own citizens, gives her reasons for feeling the way she does, which means she has a history, which causes the player to ask questions without obvious answers, which is how you invest in a character. With Lightning you might ask why she was a member of this organization, what caused her to quit, did she quit because she learned the truth about the purge, did she know the truth about the purge all along? These questions all immediately come to mind in the first 20 minutes of the game.
What are you going to ask about Tidus in the first 20 minutes of the game? You might ask if he got into Blitzball because of his dad, but that's it.
>>
>>446519874
>lol_look_i_posted_it_again_mom.jpg
>>
File: 6899476704_bb3306f52f_b.jpg (331 KB, 1024x768)
331 KB
331 KB JPG
This entire sequence was just perfect. Emotions were riding high during this
>>
File: xvmyst1.webm (2.95 MB, 854x480)
2.95 MB
2.95 MB WEBM
>>446497863
xv is the only good ARPG SE ever made
>>
>>446488541
Because FFX actually did its linearity well
>>
File: cheers to death.gif (581 KB, 245x184)
581 KB
581 KB GIF
>>446519840
I'm not kidding either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdHdJou6ZzE

he's also literally best buds with the giant space demon whale that's wrecking the world. Final Fantasy used to be dank.
>>
>>446498291
>>446505527
>this autistic bullshit again
Oh fuck off KH cocksucking faggot

That isn't the combat at all because you have manual attacks with opener, mid, finisher, counter and aerial attacks, charge attacks, directional inputs, warpstrike, point warps and warp itself, manual weapon switching which each weapon type plays differently, plus character switch which adds even more variety because each member has their own unique combat to them.

Stop fucking posting outdated 2014 interview that was literally debunked a few days after it was posted.

You're such a retarded cunt that gets BTFO on a daily basis and you're a piece of absolute shit.
>>
>>446506915
The best FF?
>>
you're way too late barry
>>
>>446488541
literally only because nostalgia. people got it in middle/highschool when it came out. wowed by voice acting and graphics. didnt play 13 despite being same game.

between X and XIII 13 is the lesser of two shitty time sinks.
>>
File: big mom eats cake.png (280 KB, 463x529)
280 KB
280 KB PNG
>>446520412
It really really was.

>fuck fuck fuck yuna's about to freaking die
>sobering music going towards the dome. no victory fanfare at all
>we get a glimpse of younger seymour and his mom. Giving him more backstory and showing early hints who Anima's fayth is and that she's a final aeon
>Spectral keeper boss after completing cloister of trials
>Finally reach the chamber of the faith only to learn it's a dud and that one of the party members had to be sacrificed to become the final aeon
>That entire exposition with yunalesca
>We seed a younger auron mourning over Braska and jecht and the fatal attack that eventually did him in
>Lulu actually raising her voice for the first time as her world and faith in yevon are completely shattered
>That Auron moment before the yunalesca battle

All that build up throughout the game for these moments paid off massively.
>>
>>446521067
Oh I know. It's the way you described it that made it so funny.
>>
>>446521067
based as fuck. it's like when cid used his cigarette to light a motherfucking stick of dynamite
>>
>>446519526
>Lulu, a surly mage who doesn't talk much, but behind her venom lies a motherly woman, who is quick to help Tidus with his misunderstandings.
I loved the relationship between Tidus and Lulu. Especially when Tidus points out he doesn't even need to ask anymore, Lulu explains things to him before he can even say anything

In fact, I like Tidus' relationship with the entire party. It actually feels like they lost someone important during the ending
>>
>>446521296
>nostalgia

Isn't X one of the consistently popular entry for the ff series?
>>
Imagine if X-2 was a Kingdom Hearts clone that followed Braska, Auron, and Jecht.
>>
>>446521739
Yea just leave that delusional boomer alone
>>
>>446521287
shut up
>>
>>446521915
That sounds fucking horrible.

>can only control one character while the other two are pointless rag dolls
>lets cut down all possible commands and actions by 90% so it can be an arpg
>>
>>446521915
>JAB in position
>>
>>446522054
Oh no i can't use 2x cut or 4x cut such valuable commands that only exist because of the restrictions of turn based to begin with
>>
File: hqdefault.jpg (14 KB, 480x360)
14 KB
14 KB JPG
>>446521337
With how timid and devoted Yuna was, I was legit excited for her to finally break free of Yevon
>>
>>446522126
>x-2 but with braska, jecht and auron in place of yuna, rikku and paine
>>
File: happy amy.png (295 KB, 740x737)
295 KB
295 KB PNG
>>446521738
Everyone meshed well together

>Yuna, Kimahri, Lulu, and Wakka already know each other for years
>Kimahri learned to trust tidus and knew auron was unsent but kept quiet
>Auron been to zanarkand for 10 years to watch tidus and knows yevon is full of crap
>Riku was the first person Tidus met in spira, has a direct family connect with Yuna, and even managed to get on Wakka's good side and show him his hatred was misplaced
>Lulu is a great guide for Tidus, Wakka sees him as a brother, Him and riku try to think of ways to save yuna, earned Kimalhri's trust, and really trusts auron
>>
>>446522142
Literally neither of those are in X fuck off, nobody with taste wants a kingdom hearts clone. You're losing buffs, more weapons, armor, accessories, skills in general. I'm so sick of people pretending that because turn based is old it isn't good. Would rather have a myriad of options than just button mashing attack while my 2 partners just did random shit.
>>
>>446521738
>that part when you tell Lulu she's your type and she says she'll add Tidus to her "list"
W-what did she mean by this?
>>
File: hqdefault.jpg (33 KB, 480x360)
33 KB
33 KB JPG
I always wondered
Did they bone underwater?
And Kimahri watched?
>>
>>446522432
you don't lose anything

turn based is literally just padded full of useless shit you never use
>>
>>446522432
This. Turn-based is much better than the ARPG combat in KH. Allows for way more options and strategies.
>>
>>446522242
Yep. Seeing her say screw the final summoning was such a highlight after she was led around for most of the game.
>>
I've never played a game from this retarded series, but I just wanted to come in and say that Everytime I see this fucking stupid images thumbnail, the red ribbon on the sword hilt looks like a person standing on the water, and the anime idiot looks like a giant standing in the ocean next to him.
>>
>>446522339
Will there be singing?

>>446522408
My favorite relationship(s) in the game by far was Auron acting as a father figure to both Tidus and Yuna, partly out of fidelity to their parents.
>>
>>446522692
>hmmm let me pick attack which does one hit or use a spell which does one thing but only 1 then i lose control!

>hmmm let me do an attack combo to stagger enemy and string into magic then aerial attack some enemies and then dodge and evade oncoming attacks then counter them immediately then do other things without losing control once
>>
>>446522692
I won't act like KH2 didn't have some great fights though. Fighting Roxas on critical was memorable, but I don't enjoy the KH2 grinding that much more than any standard FF. And when it comes to bosses it's just more reaction timing in the strategy. I would prefer to have control over everyone and they have unique abilities, special overdrive, dozens of unique weapons instead of like 6, a whole skill map. Of course this shit is all going away because we have to streamline everything now.
>>
>>446521646
Speaking of cid. X cid was boss. I loved when he hid his teary face from yuna since Tidus kept his promise to keep her alive.
>>
>there are people in this thread literally trying to argue that "FFX's story is just as confusing as FFXIII's"

Imagine being this deluded
>>
>>446523034
>I've never played a game from this retarded series
>interjecting your retarded opinion on a game you've never played like anyone cares

cringe and kys
>>
>>446523072
More like
>button mash attack
>dodge attacks you've memorized
>button mash attack
>gooby and doland dead in first 2 seconds
>>
>>446488541
10 was where SE jumped the shark
13 was inexcusable
>>
File: FFX_HD_Mt._Gagazet.jpg (675 KB, 1920x1080)
675 KB
675 KB JPG
Spira was a beautiful world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-iAPNfg7kA
Though this theme makes me think of that long cutscene before Seymour
>>
File: 48dp.gif (1.95 MB, 640x360)
1.95 MB
1.95 MB GIF
>>446488541
Because linearity isn't inherently bad you retard, the execution was the problem with XIII's linearity.

XIII was a literal hallway with nothing to do other than fight shit and with half your combat options locked until your reach 3/4 of the game.

X had branches with hidden shit all over, chocobos unlocked from the start that further unlock hidden content, the shrines, small villages and towns all over, an airship that has hidden locations in them, much less boring post game content, you could also control your entire party in combat and you could also customize them however you wanted aka level progression wasn't as linear as in XIII. Summons were also much more useful etc. The story and characters were also better and the world felt more alive because of the actual towns and npcs and because Summons felt like actual gods instead of manifestations of your characters depression that appear out of nowhere, they were integrated to the world and its much superior lore.

I could go on all day, tldr X is linear done right, XIII is linear done wrong. That's all there is to it.

Ps: Lighting Returns is good.
>>
>>446523483
it really was. unfortunately, you didn't post the superior ice level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgsC3fk7E-k&
>>
>>446522408
Wakka was like, super racist towards Rikku though
>>
>>446488541
ffx had soul
>>
>>446523072
>hm let me carefully analyze my options and pick an attack, buff, debuff, offensive spell, healing spell, item, change characters, change equipment, or summon depending on the current state of enemies, current turn order, impact of my action on the future order, buffs iand debuffs in effect, and status effects currently inflicted
>hmm let me mash x while goofy and donald mash x automatically
>>
>>446523483
>crazy man nearly slaughtered an entire race
>Have the option to let the ronso slaughter all the guado in x2
>>
>>446523296
Imagine being too brainlet to understand FFXIII.
>>
>>446523659
At first yeah. That quickly changed when they went to bikanel and home. Home was tragic. I wish it could have been explored
>>
>>446522450
Do you think she can get pregnant from fayth sperm?
>>
It's funny how nobody ever posts the remastered themes
>>
>>446523881
And if so, does that mean the fayth have to continue summoning the offspring as well?
>>
>>446523928
I actually like them, the remastered Seymour fight is good. I didn't have a problem with it when I replayed the HD version.
>>
>>446524003
No, but I bet if a real sperm misses the egg and it has enough determination it can become an unsent and keep swimming around in the uterus and impregnate the next egg after the woman gives birth.
>>
>>446523928
Seymour's Ambition(macalania battle) is genuinely the only one I'd say is an improvement over the original song and the battle theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6rmwTGb5NU
>>
>Tfw I really like crazy and deep lore stuff like Ar Tonelico, FF XIII and Drakengard
>Tfw I loved what I played of FF XIII
https://youtu.be/xfu0XBf8kmk
>>
>>446523816
Dude, just give it up. Your favorite game sucks, move on.
>>
>>446523686
This is unironically true. It took the sequel for 13 to find its soul.
>>
>>446506167
I grew up with VIII as mine.
>>
>>446524829
>no argument
Welp.
>>
>>446488541
Because X was actually good.
>>
>>446524889
No matter what anyone says I liked the junction system and how easily broken it can be
>>
>>446489410
They fucked up the faces, so no.
>>
>>446525371
The environments were gorgeous though.
>>
File: 1524402955096.png (375 KB, 639x479)
375 KB
375 KB PNG
>>446500164
The game never tries to paint Jecht as "the most caring dad ever"

It makes sense that Auron would keep silent about the plot. Similar to how Yevon is being led by the unsent, it would be hypocritical for Auron to lead the party against Yevon. The party had to come to their own conclusions.
>>
>>446488541
X has a fun story, interesting characters, and YOU COULD ALWAYS GO BACK.
Oh, and stores. Stores are a good thing. Just ask Xenosaga II.
>>
>>446495151
>shockingly dead world
most of the npcs with speaking roles have their own character arcs. either you don’t remember or you weren’t paying attention
>>
File: 1375545787251.jpg (190 KB, 1213x1240)
190 KB
190 KB JPG
>>446506167
VII was my first. I never had a Super Nintendo. It was a family computer and my dad would get viruses on it all the time from porn so he had to reinstall everything over and over so it killed emulators for me.
I bought every main series FF and ports on PS1.
>>
>>446488541
Oh wow a thread about the actual best FFX game.

All the FF games have been more or less linear, that isn't the problem. Linear gameplay becomes an issue when there are quite literally 10 hour long tutorials that drain the interest in the game.

FFX had a better plot, combat, and leveling system. That's why people overlook its linearity. Linearity was never the issue in any game.
>>
File: wI2Vo8R.jpg (231 KB, 1920x1080)
231 KB
231 KB JPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWVST7P37IM
Praise be to Yevon!
>>
>>446521739
It's true though the biggest difference between X and XIII outside of battle mechanics is the characters and aesthetic. everyone outside of sahz and hope are terribly unlikeable. X most of the characters are forgettable except auron (the older grizzled cool guy) and wakka (the older brother cool guy).
>>
>>446525653
This, Auron was based as fuck. He knew the whole truth about the final aeon and how worthless the final summoning was, but just telling diehard Yevon supporters like Wakka wouldn't convince them, they had to see it for themselves. It's especially potent when you replay it. All those times Auron was urging Yuna to stay on the path and complete the pilgrimage, he didn't want Yuna to stray and some other summoner to get there first and fall for the scam. Plus you see how the ordinarily calm and collected Auron loses his shit at seeing the pyrefly version of younger Auron fail to stop Braska and Jecht. When you play for the first time this is before you find out why he was so mad about this, when you play for the second time you know it's not just that his friends died, it's that they fucking died for nothing.

Great game. Great story.
>>
>>446525653
>Similar to how Yevon is being led by the unsent,
This was a legit shock.

>Yuna: Seymour needs to be sent to the farplane!
>Yeah i'm unsent too. got a problem with that?
>Everyone: Nani
>>
>>446526253
Honestly the only good plot twist and plot in general in this whole hamfisted series.
>>
>>446526134
Hymn of the Fayth is underrated as fuck
>>
>>446525371
They fucked up the OST as well.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
>>
>>446526356
I like all the different versions they have at each temple.
>>
All the retards crying about linear games has turned every single IP into an open world game.

Fuck ALL of you, niggers.
>>
>>446526356
>hymn isn't in 2 anywhere
>Trema comes out of nowhere and sings the end verses before unleashing meteor on the party

That was a cool callback
>>
>>446526471
Anima's sounds so sad :(
>>
>>446500164
>first half of the game paints jecht as an arrogant cunt and tidus as a faggot whiny son
More like Tidus as the son of an alcoholic who just wants attention from his old man and his mother.
>j-just kidding it's the most caring dad ever and all these sequences were my schizophrenia haha
No, Jecht was still a walking cunt.
>evil.mp3 plays
Welcome to Final Fantasy, leave your expectations at the door, bitch.
>i've come back from the dead for the 500th time to remind you that you should really stop living
Exaggeration Station.
>kimahri is a backdrop that gets about a minute of screen time
Yeah, his writing was ass.
>auron is mute until [IMPORTANT EXPOSITION SECTION] where information spills out of every of his holes
See: Stoic Samurai Trope.
>i'm a dead man who can hitch a ride on a fucking monster whale to another space-time altogether but i can still get physically fucked up in battle
He less hitched a ride and more turned himself into a Wind Fish from Link's Awakening rip-off, so he was therefore impossible to banish
>everybody in general has a fetish of hiding important information from each other
Oh, you mean like Tifa hiding the fact that Cloud was bullshit insane in Final Fantasy VII?
>i'm gonna disappear after we beat [thing], but let's not tell them about it until the important showdown with [thing] because they could use that morale boost
See: Stoic Samurai Ghost Trope.
>meaningless talks about who lives, who dies, and risks only to proceed to continue with the initial plan
Welcome to every game with that plot device ever.
>we're gonna debate sacrificing one special snowflake whore that the whole world loves versus potentially letting the whale buttfuck entire continents for years to come
But everyone was either related to the snowflake or wanted to buttfuck her as well. In Rikku case, both.

But that's okay, Rikku uses Items.
>>
>>446526490
Fucking this. Linearity was never a problem. OOT was linear. Undertale was linear. Most SNES games are linear. I could go on about other games this board wanks off to no end being linear.

A linear plot isn't a bad thing. Look at BOTW. They removed the difficulty of both combat and puzzles all because of their desire to give the player a boundless world to explore. Part of a good game is being boxed in and having to use your skills to break free in order to proceed.
>>
>>446526490
>>446526712
/argument & thread.
>>
File: Laugh.gif (2.5 MB, 270x180)
2.5 MB
2.5 MB GIF
>>446526471
I liked how yu yevon a creepy jacked up version of his own.

>>446526685
>Go into her chamber of her faith
>Anima: Do you hate my son?
>Everyone:.............
>>
>>446526882
Is that the first time or the second? I can't remember. Anyways, re-entering the chambers of the fayth that you couldn't go into at first because "it is forbidden!" and getting extra scenes was great. A good reason to actually save those destruction spheres needed for Anima until later instead of getting them on the first pass.

Although Dark fucking Valefor blocking Besaid in the HD version was some shit.
>oh you want to go back to the tutorial area?
>hits you for 9999 damage
>>
>>446526712
Is this a negative towards BOTW? Because that was a genuinely refreshing experience being able to literally anywhere after dealing with Skyward Sword.
>>
>>446527114
I don't like any of the bonus bosses added into the European/HD versions. They're just giant slogs
>>
File: SpongeBob concern.gif (1.28 MB, 1275x916)
1.28 MB
1.28 MB GIF
>>446527114
Anima only has one scene no matter what.
>Although Dark fucking Valefor blocking Besaid in the HD version was some shit.

At least she's managable without too much grinding since she's the first one. I legit feel sorry for anyone who didn't go back into Yunalesca's chamber to get Tidus's sun crest/sigil before Dark Bahamut decides to make it his new residence.
>>
>>446527315
Not him but I loved them personally. Dark Yojimbo was easily the easiest way to hoard 4 slotted ribbon/break hp armor for everyone
>>
>>446526356
>Anima one-shotting everything in Luca while this plays, as everyone is shitting their pants more towards the thing saving them than the monsters that were attacking them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYCGwGFJMOY
>>
>>446527226
Yes, just because SS was a failure in many more aspects doesn't make BOTW a Zelda classic. SS is more of a Zelda game than BOTW. BOTW is just a better game than SS. SS has the essence of a Zelda game, but it's a shitty game. BOTW is a good game with a lot of key Zelda aspects cut out.
>>
>>446527731
Hell I'd be scared of that eldritch abomination too.
>>
>>446527458
Yeah but the first time I played FFXHD (never played International) I was on a no sphere grid run. If he did 9999 to one party member at a time that would've been manageable, but that fucker can use regular Valefor's first overdrive to hit everyone for 9999 at any time, so you can't even predictably mix for Auto-Life. Fortunately I didn't need anything too important from Besaid (I had remembered to grab Valefor's second overdrive already).
>>
>>446488959
fuck I want to read more of this delusional tripe.
>>
File: com.jpg (8 KB, 263x236)
8 KB
8 KB JPG
>>446526471
>walk into Bevelle Temple
>someone starts singing the hymn
>it's a child
>the most iconic summon in the series has the imprisoned soul of a fucking child

Unironically the best Bahamut in FF
>>
>>446526237
>All those times Auron was urging Yuna to stay on the path and complete the pilgrimage, he didn't want Yuna to stray and some other summoner to get there first and fall for the scam.

Humorously enough, go back to zanarkand after beating the crazy lady and you'll see Donna and Bartelo walking out of the cloister of trials complaining about the final summon not working. I love those little details.
>>
File: 78-yunalesca_(86).jpg (52 KB, 640x480)
52 KB
52 KB JPG
>>446522242
>>446522828
>>446521337
>>446520412
Until this fucking bitch wipes your party and forces you to watch it multiple times!!!
>>
>>446511910
I savescummed and used Zanmato to powerlevel myself in the arena, because fuck grinding for hours on end to become strong enough to legit beat even the easiest ones
>>
>>446528782
That's only if you convince Donna to stay the path. I always talked her out of being a summoner because fuck Yevon
>>
>>446528482
And he was there with tidus from the very beginning before dream zanarkand went up in smoke.
>>
What the fuck was Yunalesca's problem?
>>
>>446522615
Play more turn based games. Try Dragon Quest for something more simple or Etrian Odyssey for something more complex
>>
>>446528839
Look up the Cactuar King ap trick and you'll max out in a few hours.
>>
>>446528832
>younger me had no idea how to deal with with megadeath no realizing the zombie status made them "immune" To it
>back tracked and caught all the fiends on gagazet and got farplane winds
>proceed to give tidus death proof

Thank God those warp pads have insane range.
>>
>>446528956
Probably the whole killing her husband and watching the being he turned into get reformed into a stronger replacement for the thing she was trying to kill by killing said husband.
>>
>>446528956
Well the idea is that the world at large needs this religion. Because without it everyone is forced to face the reality that they're fucked since there's no valid way to destroy sin
>>
>>446528832
It's a cool cutscene. Once you learn her tricks she's not that hard.
First phase
>use magic on her, she always counters with silence
>physically attack her, she always counters with darkness
>use some other ability on her like rikku's use, she always counters with sleep
Second phase
>make sure you let her inflict zombie on you
>but don't use healing items anymore because they damage zombies
Third phase
>Mega-Death misses your zombie characters, time to clean house
>>
File: 1529307914776.gif (153 KB, 328x240)
153 KB
153 KB GIF
>>446528832
>first form
Oh this isn't so bad. Not sure why the music is serious
>second form
Ok this is getting annoying with this zombie and regen combo
>third form
Pic related
>>
>>446526490
>>446526712
XIII was way too linear though and had no towns. Follow the yellow brick road is fucking lame.
>>
>>446528832
I love this boss. Contrary to so many others in the game, no, the series, this one doesn't use raw power or smart tactics. It just bleeds you dry, slowly. Someone smart should try to establish that her fight is a metaphor for her beliefs. I would but i'm too fucking tired.
>>
File: Chac_ffx-2.jpg (110 KB, 687x444)
110 KB
110 KB JPG
>>446528956
She was an unsent nutjob who became even nuttier in the next 2 years
>>
>>446529741
never though about that. Her battle really is a metaphor for "life is nothing but a pointless struggle that eventually leads to death." Bla bla spria cycle of death.
>>
I wish Seymour's final battle was actually challenging. Even skipping all the end game weapons and dungeons, he's still a chump compared to Sin. That music is way too good to be used on the easiest Seymour battle
>>
>>446530082
That's what I was looking for. Thanks.
>>
>X
>series of interconnected hallways that, while linear, still form some semblance of a world
>you can backtrack
>NPCs, towns, etc.
>they wind around and shit
>XIII
>LITERALLY straight lines
>any and all side paths are dead ends with a treasure chest
>devoid of anything other than monsters
>everything is a completely separated area that makes it feel more like a series of setpieces than an actual world
>>
>>446530089
He's still a chump compared to Seymour Flux.

Double his health and don't give him a turn to change elements or charge Ultima. Now you have a boss fight,
>>
>>446530241
Seymour flux is one of the weirdest difficulty spikes I've ever seen. Like what first time player is going to beat that thing in one try?
>>
>>446530434
>446530434
He'd be a perfectly challenging boss if he didn't have 2 attacks that can one hit your entire team if you don't grind hard enough.
>>
>>446519526
>FF13 doesn't do characters.
this is true. FF13 cast of playables are so terrible only a few of them can get a pass but otherwise they are all embodiments of zoomie culture.
>>
>>446530546
No lie. The only legit way I could survive total annihilation before knowing better was to cast protect on Auron and use sentinel and hope he survived to revive everyone else.
>>
>>446530161
This explains it perfectly. What people disliked the most since day 1. I would say the auto combat as well but the combat is actually pretty decent once the game gets going.
>>
>>446488541
FF peaked at V and anyone who thinks any post-VII game is good is a tasteless retard.
>>
>>446531032
There is no reason to play V now that BD exists.
>>
>>446531032
Cringe
>>
File: 1505884325003.jpg (92 KB, 430x342)
92 KB
92 KB JPG
>>446524762
:56
>dat crescendo payoff
>>
>>446531297
There was no crescendo.
>>
>>446490701
Linear isn't bad. What makes XIII bad is that you have no real control over anything, which makes it extremely boring.
You have one path that is a hallway made of invisible walls or sometimes literal walls, the battles are all pre-determined so you get the exact amount of EXP they want you to, you have no choice of developing your character, you can't even choose your party, and the battles are basically just mash to win, and to make it worse they don't even give you access to the full battle system until over a dozen hours in. There's nothing there to keep you entertained.
>>
Was I the only one who had extreme trouble with orphan's cradle? I literally had to run past most of the first because the enemies completely decimated my party
>>
>>446517104
this
you can literally die from a basketball to the face, and honestly, as much as blitzballs look and sound like regular sports balls, I still think they're almost completely rubber or something that keeps them still in water (not sinking or floating) therefore they'd have to be really fucking heavy
>>
>>446530161
>all the shops exist in the save point

convient but oh so dull
>>
>>446524762
looks and sounds more like a "tales of" game than a final fantasy game
yea, I found another reason to diss your favorite game :^)
>>
>>446488541
X came out first. Also in 2001, when linear games weren't shat on.
>>
People that complain about X never played it, but I don't know about XIII though. I only saw my brother played from start to end, wondered where the fuck are the towns and npcs are. My brother said it was ok but boring at times.
>>
>>446488625
>other stuff
Literally blitzball and that's it for more than half the game.
>>446488737
Backtracking in X was terrible until you get the airship. You can't be serious.
>Walking
>everywhere
>when you don't get No Encounters until late game, unless you actually took the time to steal purifying salts
>>
>>446488541
because people are retarded contrarians
ffx was the death of final fantasty
>>
>>446488959
>at best, okay
FTFY.
>>
>>446532776
>>446488541
X was shit. Blitzball was based. I had at least a hundred hours on blitzball but never beat the shitty game.
>>
>>446532776
I actually got my NE weapon from an enemy drop in the CotSF. Sucks for all you stealcucks.

Even before that, I would just use the extra encounters as grinding opportunity or Flee.
>>
File: 1546868447064.gif (39 KB, 208x121)
39 KB
39 KB GIF
>>446526134
>>446526356
>that part when the Ronsos start singing the hymn
It was such a stupid but powerful moment
made their massacre even sadder
>>
>>446533272
>I actually got my NE weapon from an enemy drop in the CotSF
Which you don't have access to until lategame, which I already stated.
>Stealcucks
At the very least, you get it halfway through the game instead of towards the end. Although it's still beyond the point where you can backtrack, unless you really want to walk back from the goddamn Calm Lands.
>>
File: 1511167899167.jpg (78 KB, 640x640)
78 KB
78 KB JPG
>>446533291
>literally the only battle that scales do to no one likely never touching kimahri
>>
>>446533505
>CotSF
Wait, isn't that Yojimbo's chamber? Which enemy drops No Encounters equipment there?
>>
Final Fantasy XIII had pretty graphics and a good sound track. Everything else about it was terrible. The characters were boring and not memorable in the slightest. The story is so contrived and stupid. It's not fun to play. The entire game you feel like you're in a tutorial mode and they never take off the training wheels.

Final Fantasy X was a game with cool characters, a great soundtrack, great graphics (for the time), a great atmosphere and was the last Final Fantasy main series game to have a battle system that was still reflective of the classic Final Fantasy games and played well. I also thoroughly enjoyed the sphere grid system, but loathed the FF13 leveling system, and how strictly they would limit your ability to over-level until you had completed a certain part of the main story. Blitzball also was pretty fun. If people don't like it that's fine. The same as some people like football and other's don't. People hate on Final Fantasy X for the laughing scene, but it is in no way reflective of the game's overall experience. People also hate on Tidus, but I enjoyed the element of him being from a foreign world, so he knew basically as much about the world as the player did. I often have the urge to go back and play FF10, and even 12, but I never feel the urge to go back and play 13. I have no idea how they managed to make 3 games out of it. I got up to the final boss fight in 13 and just decided 'You know what. I don't want to play this game anymore. It sucks.'
>>
>>446488541
they're both good
>>
>>446530161
that's literally the difference between the two. 13 is upfront about showing these pretty set pieces that are disconnected. 10 strings the set pieces together and you can always go back to visit your favorites.
>>
>>446534193
>can't visit home again
>can't visit the via puifco again

I enjoyed kicking issaru's butt
>>
>>446533098
>get so strong that you can brute force your way through everything with the various jecht shots
>>
>>446525438
>The environments were gorgeous though.
They look worse than in the original
>>
>>446534365
I really wonder what kind of dickhead gamedesigner decided to have some of the a-lbhed primers hidden in places where you can never get them again.

also - what kind of fucking idiot thought it would be funny to unlock the language in one letter at a time? you finally "unlock" the language AFTER having missed out on all of the important dialogue
>>
Bump limit. This was a nice thread
>>
>>446534986
You can replay the game, you know.
>>
>>446534986
Doesn't rin give you the ones that can missed or am I remembering wrong
>>
>>446517238
Not him but I played FFX on release and haven't since then, but I still remember a lot of the names and locales and events that happened there. XIII is like a fucking blank in my memory.
>>
>>446535191
No, he doesn't. He does reward you for finding them all, though.
>>
>>446489858
> also i like v-ix
FF V had EIGHT SEQUELS???



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.