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How did she become queen again? Wasn't the whole story about complex lines of succession up to that point?
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>>108356354
OP you're one dumb motherfucker
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Feminism
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>>108356354
All the Baratheons are dead with no heirs, she seized control because the Goldcloaks were loyal to the Lannisters.
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>>108356354
by killing all her enemies
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>>108356354
Find me another heir who isn't so distantly removed that isn't so distant that he has no idea how to run a kingdom
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>>108356681
Doran Martell
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>>108356354

Her neck seems super long here.
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>>108356354
>all her children are dead
>Tyrion is dead
>Bobby B is dead
Who else is next in line if not Cersei?
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>>108356354
The line of succession doesn’t matter when everyone else in power is dead and you control the police force
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>>108356791
He's of no relation to the Baratheons
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>>108356812
She was never in the line in the first place.
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>>108356354
>complex lines of succession
>kill all other successors
>now succession is simple
It's pretty obvious you dumbass
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>>108356354
>How did she become queen again?
i've literally completely forgotten. i've forgotten a lot of what happened in the most recent season

my excitement for the final season was completely killed by the awful writing in the last few seasons
pretty disgusting what they did to George's story as soon as they ran out of his material to copy.
at least season 1 was good..
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>>108356354
>all apparent heirs dead
>controls the largest military force in the city
>blowing up the sept showed she is fucking crazy enough to take everything down with her if anyone opposes her
>she might even have more wildfire stashed in other areas of the city, and have a plan to take the whole thing with her if she was under real threat
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>>108356886
He has a much better claim than Cersei (who has basically none) through the shared Targaryen blood with the Baratheons.
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>>108357109
>blowing up the sept showed she is fucking crazy enough to take everything down with her if anyone opposes her
Ye cos the people were all really happy last time there was a crazy ruler.

If the ruler of the city decides to start blowing up buildings why arent people fleeing the city? The show is illogical.
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>>108356354
Because despite literally everyone knowing what she did, nobody cares enough to lynch her.
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>>108356354
I didn’t vote for her.
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Captain Maario Naharis
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>>108356354
PABLO ESSSSCOOOOOBBAAARR
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>>108356354
Rules of succession exist to bring stability and peace. She destroyed that stability and won't remain on the throne long with all the chaos she has caused.

Crowns have always been taken by force in history but in hindsight it's rarely worth it.
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>>108357331
>Whycomes people don't run off into the wilderness when Winter has arrived because a crazy person killed a bunch of crazy people?
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The thrones should have gone to Robert's biological son but he has none(not even any bastards which is weird), so it should have gone to any of his brothers Stannis or Renly, Renly dies so it goes to Stannis, oh noo Stannis is dead guess the Lannisters can pretend its their throne now, oops Joffrey died, now Tommen is dead,Tywin is dead too,the girl is dead too, all thats left is either Cersei or Jamey, and Jamey doesnt want to do any shit not related to fighting, and so we are left with Cersei as the ruler of the iron throne.
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>>108357357
Ive figured it out, it's like macbeth. Macbeth could do what he liked until "The man not born of woman" came along to put an end to it. Basically shes invincible till Tyrion or Jaimie decide they've had enough of her shit and fulfill the valonqhar prophecy. Although i cant remember if thats even a part of the show.
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>>108356354
When there are no children left in succession it goes back to the parent, if still alive.
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>>108357617
Refugees dont just go off into the wilderness. They could simply go to the reach or dorne.
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>>108357331
There hasn't been too much time to shit stir up, but with winter coming in and the wars that devastated security in the kingsroad everyone is actually flocking towards big cities, kingslanding being the best one.

Having a mob is definitely a possibility, she just proved she is willing to kill everyone so obviously everyone is treading slowly
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>>108356354
it was her turn!
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>>108357672
The consort of a monarch isn't in the line of succession, it would be one of Robert's uncles next, then the oldest child of the oldest uncle, and you'd just keep going back up Robert's line like that until you found someone alive. I don't think it's mentioned in the books who the true heir would be now.
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>>108356354
D R O P P E D
R
O
P
P
E
D
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>>108357772
but they couldve simply gone to another big city preferably one without someone willing to just kill everyone
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>>108357783
Stannis's daughter is supposed to be the actual ruler once Stannis dies as she is the only royal genetic Baratheon left.
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>>108357672
That's not how lines of succession work. Any extremely distant cousin of Tommen would have a better claim to the throne than Cersei or Jaime.
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>>108357672
>not even any bastards which is weird)

weren't all the bastards killed? even the babies?
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>>108356354
It really wouldn’t be the first time some person in the capital killed the ruler and replaced him, happened all the time in the old ancient and medieval empires. Thing is, it was usually the precursor for some sort of civil war battle for control of the kingdom. Ultimately if the upstart can gain enough support in the capital while the ruler is away campaigning or whatever, he might be able to raise an army that will depose the ruler, but if he loses he’ll have a painful death. So no, real life did not demand perfect succession in fact successions were repeatedly broken throughout history by scheming eunuchs or conniving trecherous generals. If Cersei can establish Lannister power in the capital and project force with her armies over the area and then defeat all the other original armies, she becomes queen and there’s no army left to stop her until another rebellion happens. There are a few instances of female rulers in Muslim and Persian societies but they were usually short lived and happened in a circumstance similar to what I described before being overthrown by whatever general happened to have the biggest army. Sure people prefer a long succession for a stable society, but it’s not like they never broke the rules
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>>108357915
Gendry wasn’t but nobody in kings landing knows that
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>>108358018
bastards have no claims, that’s why they’re bastards
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>all those scenes of Ramsay being a Saturday morning cartoon villain and people hinting that they're getting sick of his shit
>all of the North is still loyal to him anyways because they need that epick we're outnumbered underdogs until unexpected allies arrive trope that they've used in every single battle episode except Hardhome
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>>108357672
all that is irrelevant. Cersei has the power to hold the throne. That's all that matters. She might have a very weak legit claim as well by being second of a great house after jamie but no one cares about that.
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>>108356354
She held a kingdom hostage? claimed a throne through fear via a show of force.
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>>108358122
bastards have a claim, they just aren't honored by the father, that's why they're bastards.
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>>108356416

He's not, that was just another moment where the shows quality went to shit. If something like that had happened in the early seasons it Cersei's story would be about her struggling to maintain order as the general populace rightfully calls her a monster.

Instead it's all skipped over and she now rules without opposition in her we slice of the kingdom like a cartoon bad guy.
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>>108358317
No m8 the state of being a bastard means that you have no claims, period. You can be legitimized by your father or by a lord or king of higher rank than you, but if you’re never legitimized then you’ll never have a true claim. You can still take power like Jon Snow did, it’ll just be the right of conquest, not a blood right. A bastard can never lay legal claim to anything his father owns unless he is legitimized, period.
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>>108356354
Doesn't matter. The show has become basic fantasy "dragons vs zombies" and I have completely lost interest.
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>>108357848
The Twincest cunts are the bastard children of Aerys the mad king so if anyone were to reveal this knowledge they could claim it but that would require support from lesser lords, the favour of the citadel / religious institution. And if Jaime were to deny it if he had said support which he most likely would Daenerys would hold a better claim over Cersei and people would be like fuck it just take the mad kings legit daughter over the illegitimate.
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>>108358405
She kicked out all the tyrells and set up rule by fear, it’s happened plenty of times. The world is not so mechanical, it does not just follow the rules. Plenty of time throughout history people with no claims take power because they had the power to do so without a claim.
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>>108356354
Yas
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>>108358480
Ah so since Lannister + King's Landing armies can kick anyone'ass she makes the rules.
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>>108357832
The biggest cities are kingslanding, lannisport, old Town, guiltown and white harbor, only oldtown is south of kingslanding, so it's the warmest biggest city.

It's still far from kingslanding and the road is dangerous. You have to remember the war of the 5 Kings happened and everything went to shit, there is no safety passage and the trip takes weeks on foot, it's simply safer to remain inside Kingslanding
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>>108356681
Tyrion Fucking Lannister

(and also Jamie)
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>>108358539
>weeks on horses
How big is westeros?
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>>108358122
Bastards have a claim when all other claims are expired and its left between the bastard and the daughter. This was one of the plot lines in the first released got vidya which featured grrm as a myrish maester named maester martin.
Part of the story was about a prodigle son to a house returns from the east after fucking off and becoming a red priest and is contested by the bastard of the family who intends to claim the position by strengthening his claim by marrying his legitimate born sister. Then it came down to supporters and politics.

The bastard held it down for so many years and most were in his camp. But a long lost son showed up but what made matters worse was the duration of which he left and his new found religion. But prior to the prodigle son showing up the bastard had better support than the legitimate daughter.

westerosi politics is a bitch and all bullshit.
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She’s justified in her actions. The religious zealots kidnapped her and tried to seize power. She’s been attacked on all sides by enemies who would kill and rape her. She is rightful queen and one of the best female characters ever. I admire her strength.
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>>108356812
The fucking state of roasties and mutts
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>>108358552
Heir?? So Tyrion married Robert Baratheon now? They don't have a claim
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>>108358417
Legally, yes you are right but people have rallied behind a bastard and put him on the throne because they rebelled against the current king. This has happened in real life and it is because of blood. Bastards have a claim. They are not just some peasant. Why do you think rivals still kill bastards even when the father has declared them such. When things are going well in the kingdom, bastards have no chance, I agree, it's when there is succession issues that bastards start being talked about.
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>>108357954
Basically this. Look into Wu Zetian in China for example. Once a concubine to the empreror, she worked her way up to become the only real Empress (as in not Dowager) of China, going as far as to exile her own sons.
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>>108357743
Consorts are not inckuded in succesion, retard. In this case Cersei is royal incubator and nothing more.
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>>108356354
it's a coup.

she's ruling by fear alone
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Maario Naharis
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>>108358480

The city just had huge fucking explosion in the center in it's place of worship, they are surrounded by enemies, Cersei is loathed by the people, don't be so sad as to make excuses for modern Game of Thrones by making up stories of how it could have happened.
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>>108358552
They aren't heirs, and even if they were, Cersei is the eldest sibling
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>>108358629
>weeks on horses
or 5 seconds in season 7
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>>108358552
Who is currently helping to lead a civil war, which is usually what happens in circumstances like this. You can “claim” all the land from the Wall to sunspear and it won’t mean shit without the army to enforce that claim. If Tyrion takes Lannister power away from Cersei and gives it to himself, it will make the transition easier considering the claims he has over the Lannister family, but those claims are meaningless without the army. The show itself repeatedly makes this point: “do you think a crown gives you power?”
>>108358647
Anon the bastard can get support without actually having a legal claim just like Jon Snow. Until he takes power and establishes his own dynasty, he has no claim. Jon could legally demand winterfell as king and therefore take the claim by force, thereby setting up a new dynasty, but it will not have anything to do with the fact that his dad was Prince, because by westerosi law he was a bastard and bastards have no claim-ignore that he actually isn’t a bastard this is just for example-.
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>>108358647
>but the videogame said
What a fucking dork
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I don't know how anyone can defend this. Why would anyone follow Cersei? because everyone else is dead? they already know she is batshit crazy, they should be overthrowing her from thw kingdom AND FROM THE WESTERLANDS. She has no claim except for the westerlands, every lord would be in favour of choosing a new king like what happened after Robert's Rebellion. For example, the Velaryons are valyrian as the Targaryen and intermarried with them. Their claim would be definetly higher than that of Cersei. The same goed for the Celtigar. No one should be bending over or following her orders. If anything there should be complete CHAOSH to try to be the first to overthrow her to have a chance to be king.
>she has the goldcloaks
a castle lord should be able to field 1000 men as the very least. imagine the manpower a coallision would have, specially one lead by the Reach.
Good god why you faggots try to defend the bad writting. She basically exploded the equivalent of the vatican and you think the other lords would let her get away with it?
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>>108358671
Then the reasoning is unofficial, bastards get unofficial support because everyone knows they’re the natural descendant, however this is still not legal. Bastards can take power but it is right of conquest.
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>>108358660
He's a Lannister and was protector of the capital city at some point.

He has better claim than the ex wife of a king who's been shamed for being a whore
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>>108358805
>follow
she's a tyrant mate, if they don't she'll kill them. Guess what, not everyone follows the law, especially not kings and self appointed queens
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>>108358754
Let me tell give you a history lesson:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots
Soldiers can put down the mob with the right tactics, fear is powerful
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>>108358876
feudalism is a social contract. she has no power like a dragon to enforce the lords to follow her.
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>>108357331
There is a real world precedent for the common masses being too scared flee or being stuck following the statues quo b/c they know nothing else.
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>>108358919
She has an army
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>>108358919
She has the Lannister army which put down Stannis' army, the entire fucking North and wiped out the Tyrells for betraying her, now the Iron Islands are on her side too. You'd have to be mad to think you could storm King's Landing and take the throne, especially in winter.
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>>108358759
She's a woman tho and Jaime renopunced his claim, so Tyrion would be the best candidate, where the Lannisters next in line, which they likely aren't.
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>>108358876
Anyone who could afford to leave would do so, since futures with a batshit insane queen who bombs vast areas of her own city are not ones that merchants and property owners thrive in.
Once those people leave, the people they support will start to suffer.
Once they suffer, they either cause mass poverty, crime and unrest, or they find a way to fuck off elsewhere.
Once that happens, generation of money and produce starts to wane.
Once that happens, she loses her ability to fund her methods of suppression.

While it's possible for her to initially crush any unrest, it would cause mass expenditure to do so in the long run, and that's not counting the fact that she needs her army to fight off the legions of people she's pissed off.
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>>108358834
>right of conquest.
not always. The father removes all legal rights afforded to the son, that's correct, however, upon the king's death, and with succession issues, lords, ministers, councilmen, whatever may chose to waive that and honor his legal right by blood. Once the king is dead his laws often die with him. Succession is often very convoluted. Anyway, all I'm saying is that bastards have some sort of claim, it is not nothing.
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>>108359063
Tyrion is a fugitive who was sentenced to death
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>>108359063
And Tyrion is currently leading an army to depose his sister. Tell me, what will be the factor in deciding who actually rules? Will it be a court session where they gather the maesters in front of the two armies to decide who is the legal ruler? No, they’re going to battle, and the winner of the battle will be the ruler. Because legal claims are just pieces of paper without the army whereas the army can do just fine without a piece of paper
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>>108356354
>All the Baratheons with an assemblance of power are dead.
>Cersei is able to use effective propaganda to convince a sizable amount of lords and men that the last Targaryen
>Has incredible economic support from her house and the iron bank

It seems pretty logical she could assume rule with every other person in the main line of succession being dead. Some distant Baratheon cousin probably exists but no army would follow him and the one bastard of Robert left has no desire to be King.
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>>108359003
>She has an army
that shouldn't be following her except Deus Ex Machina powers. She is proven batshit crazy, destroyed the sept, most people already hated her guts for being engaging in incest.
>>108359020
>She has the Lannister army
the lannister army would be following the Lannisters of Lannisport, not Cersei because
1 she is a woman
2 she is proven batshit crazy and a sinner
3 destroyed the vatican
4 Thr Lannisters of Lannisport would have a better claim to the Westerlands because
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>>108356354

She literally has zero claim to the throne and the people hate her. There would be a coup almost instantly
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>>108359080
you sound like all those morons who said they'll leave the US when trump gets elected.
>dude you don't like the king just fucking leave lmao
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>>108359126
Hereditary succession is to prevent constant wars over the throne, but it leads to chaos if the king doesnt just have one child, as their siblings can squabble.
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>>108359082
>may choose
key words there. May choose, AFTER the battlefield made the real choice. Your entire mindset is backwards and fundamentally irrational. And they would have that right since by that point the bastard is king and can make his own claims. This has NOTHING to do with the approval of his council or his lords, the fact that he’s in that position means he already had that support before it was ever legal. The legality doesn’t matter unless you have the army and if you have the army then legality can easily follow suite
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>>108359171
Daenerys took Lannisport, the Lannisters are all at King's Landing and she'd have them murdered if they betrayed her.
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>>108359215
You seemed to think succession is either perfectly legal and 100 perfect and ok with everyone or there has to be an all out war and decisive battle. I cbf anymore
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>>108359171
They followed her because Jaimie was standing beside her. You’re probably right that loyalties will shift once they realize Jaimie is gone, but none of this will have anything to do with the legality of it all. Cersei has the respect of Jaimie and the other Lannister generals, they’re fine with it because just like real human beings, they see the glass half full and realize if they support an illegitimate ruler then illegitimates such as themselves could also rise to high stations. Illegitimate rulers tend to attract a sort of person like Qyburn or a greedy general or a general that just wants peace and for the succession crisis to end
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>>108358776
Agreed. All that is required is force and the will to take what you want. Sure a claim helps smooth over politics which smooths over support but it's not necessary at all.

>>108358791
the game was just another fraction of the overall story. and this specific game the fat man had held massive influence. Staring in it himself. The following game he gave them info and let them run with whatever they wanted but still gave us great influences. Like more info on the ironwood trees. ( polar opposite trees to wierwood, black wood and blue leaves ) and the song from iron to ice. When burnt it burns blue. And the two trees were obviously eden inspired. One tree of knowledge and the other of eternal life. But other than that he didn't have much of a hand.

The original unrelated game his hands were all over. He stared as a maester, gave info on myr and their knowledge of glasses etc. And had a northern storyline of the red priest I was talking about butchered children which was why he left westeros for essos, became a red priest, returned and gave resurrected a nightswatchmen who was the father of the kids he butchered back to life with the kiss of life.
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Would a constitution that limits how leaders are chosen fix this?
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>>108358961
Back to leftypol with you.
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>>108359020
The entire north is in a state of rebellion, and there’s a barbarian horde, an enormous mercenary army, and two dragons led by a Targaryen currently invading, why would ANYONE still support Cersei?
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>>108359353
She came to power by blowing everyone else up. I suspect she might just have ignored a constitution
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>>108359353
No, as soon as it became inconveniant it would be torn up like Robert's letter naming Eddard as protector of the realms.
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>>108359212
And that’s all de facto problems, not de jure. Your “exceptions” are not legal exceptions, they are “exceptions” because they ignore the law. De jure, only the eldest son or whichever son the ruler chooses has legal right. However once he dies any of the children can kill the true heir, take power and then legitimize himself, but legitimization is the LAST THING they do, not the first. You’re fundamentally missing the point repeatedly so let me make this perfectly clear; people with no legal claim, like bastard, a younger siblings in primogeniture succession, or a daughter, can win the de facto battle for power and THEN make themselves de jure, but there is nothing short of legitimization that will legitimize their coup before thy already take power. There is de facto blood that everyone knows-“I don’t care if he’s a bastard, Ned stark’s blood runs through his veins!”- but this is not de jure.
The point is, de jure is irrelevant without de facto but de facto is always relevant
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>>108356354
>How did she become queen again?

Previous king was so done with this shit
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>>108359171
You're missing the fact that a great deal of people fear Cersei and just b/c a large amount of people are scared doesn't mean they'll revolt.

People also like to be on the winning side and Cersei's claim did not look like a losing side initially. Having the near full support of the Reach and Westerlands with the incredibly powerful Greyjoy fleet gives her a fantastic army. Add on the Iron Bank backing her and you have a massive and well funded land and naval force.

Also need to consider that the common person vastly underestimates the strength of 3 dragons. They've been extinct for centuries and people likely didn't expect them to be the size of Balerion the fucking Dread.
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>>108359420
>Whycomes they don't just murder the leader of the only army who could save them from all that?
You must be trolling.
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>>108359420
because they dont want another dragon king fucking shit
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>>108359306
You’re missing the point because you refuse to admit that there are no exceptions what I said. You’re claiming that there are de jure exceptions whilst using de facto arguments. You keep giving examples of de facto coups, these are not exceptions to de jure law they are the deliberate avoidance of de jure law.
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She became queen by WINNING
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Would a military dictatorship work for Westeros?
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>>108356681
None of the fucking kings knew how to run a kingdom besides maybe Aegon who took them in the first place. After him maybe one in 50 weren't terrible cunts
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>>108359420
>dude an invading army in gonna kill us lets kill our queen and show those zombies we love them lmao
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>>108356354
See, she becomes queen after murdering the family that was her entire financial and military backing by blowing up the most important religious site on the continent, and then conquered that family's territory using her army she shouldn't have.

Game of Thrones is ran by literal 65 IQ brainlet liberals.
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>>108359608
Maesters dude, ain't gotta explain shit
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>>108359353
Maybe after a decade long revolution followed by another decade long war to abolish monarchies a constitution that limits a rulers power would work. But it would take a lot of extreme circumstances that people like Olenna and Tywin would never let happen. See French Revolution.
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>>108358844
Lannisters don't have a claim to the throne, it was Robert, a Baratheon. And he only got it because they sent maesters to fish for really old lineages to bullshit Roberts claim as valid.

Tyrion has as much claim as Lady Stoneheart
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>>108356354
>Show Answer: muh strong females
>Actual Answer: If you trace up the ow-extinct Baratheon line you eventually find a marriage to the Lannisters like three generations back. If you trace that down it gets to Tywin (deceased) and then Jamie (can't server because King's Guard). If were allowing queens then she is technically the rightful heir; if we're doing kings only then you'd have to trace back up the Baratheon line some more and it's probably some lord from the Stormlands.
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>>108358629
As big as south america
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>>108359680
>abolish monarchies
Lets not get ridiculous now, the problem is the horseshit that occurs before a new king is crowned not that the kingdoms are bad at their job which is maintaining the nation.
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>>108359608
>hey Jon hows guard duty going?
>can’t complain Ned, getting paid and I haven’t died yet
>what do you think of our queen?
>well I’m getting paid and I was allowed to join the army because she needed men when before I wouldn’t have qualified, so because she’s illegitimate I did qualify and am now enjoying a stable life as a guard
>but Jon, she has no legal right! No claim! As a former peasant who just joined the army to eat, this is unacceptable! I realize this will delegitimize my own position, but I just can’t stand the fact that our ruler isn’t legitimate! Screw our lives it’s the PRINCIPLE of it all, and we commoners are all about living by codes of chivalry and honor and blood rights
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aaagh...
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>>108359786
So long ago
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>>108359526
>You’re claiming that there are de jure exceptions
nope, in fact I expressly said the opposite.
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>>108359814
Then there are no contradictions in what I said, no exceptions either. I was 100% correct and you just couldn’t admit it because you’re young
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>>108359665
Cersei is based af
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>>108359693
Robert took the throne. Some old Targaryen lineage was the justifications of the scholars but the fact is he became king by force and no other reason. Ned could have easily declared himself the new king but had no interest.
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>>108359765
She shouldn't have any money for this retarded scenario you describe
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>>108359748
To be fair, if everytime the king dies the entire nation falls apart and tens of thousands or maybe even hundreds of thousands of soldiers are killed, not to mention the enormous disruption to food production (imagine all the starving commoners) that really doesn’t sound like a great way to maintain the nation
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>>108359894
The iron bank anon, that shit was literally explained
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>>108359309
>because Jaimie was there
literally nobody should respect Jaime
in no regard. remember he was.suspected of being in love with his sister so everyone could use that against him. The only good thing Jaimie had was being a knight and that ended when they cut his hand. Robb took him prisoner after a battle.
>>108359503
The Reach should have revolted the moment they took Loras (presumer heir of the Reach) as a prisoner. At least in the books they threatened war to Tommen and moved the army.
>>108359252
thanks for reminding me that Mary Sue dragon bitch took a trip rounding westeros to capture Lannisport by sea to "prevent more casualties". But we are talking before this happened.
What is this notion that everyone has that only thd main characters should act for everything? the people should be revolting, like they did when Joffrey was king, and they also feared him. The lords should be ddposing her because everyone hates her. Its just all written so the bad guys have more or so equal power than the good guys. literally capeshit.
>>
Cersei hasnt imposed any retarded laws yet so its looks ok, now whats important is who will rule after her Jamey needs to fuck her again.
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>>108356804
shes wearing shoulder plates that blend in with the iron throne
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>>108359801
>It's time you move on and support D&D's Azor Ahai reborn
>And which character is that?
>Daenarys
I was so pissed off when they added that "um sweaty, in Valyrian the translation is 'prince or princess'" line and realised this was the case. Fuck normies in their fucking asses.
>>
>>108359905
This entire clusterfuck was caused by Bran seeing forbidden love so its not common in Westeros. Its so ironic that Westeros was at its most peacful under Targaryan rule.
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>>108359927
I realize that. I dont understand why the fuck the Iron bank is supporting her when the show put the Lannisters in worse financial state then the books, and the crown funds are exhausted.
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>>108359978
Anon, Dany dies in childbirth at Storms End. Azor Ahai is her and Jon's daughter
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>>108359999
Because the writers don’t understand how banks work
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>>108359931
Margaery, in the show at least, was desperately trying to keep the peace and find a non-violent solution to this problem. Her whole ideal was to work from within the Faith as a fake devote to rescue Loras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfkiF3ElLpw
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>>108359931
>nobody should respect Jaimie
he doesn’t need their respect, he has fear. I only bring up Jaimie because the Lannister generals know he’s a proven commander so they’d trust Cersei as long as Jaimie was there. We still don’t know what will happen now that he’s left
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>>108359999
Least worst option
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>>108359999
Did you miss the bit where she took all the Tyrell's gold after capturing Highgarden?
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>>108360073
they're jews though
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>>108359551
Wouldn’t have the legitimacy to get the nobles in line, they’d essentially have to murder every single noble family in Westeros
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>>108360063
m8, they ain't going to kill off their most popular character and have a 15-20 year timejump in a 6-episode final season
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>>108360073
GRRM doesn't understand economics either. In the book he ignores how the worlds economy would be destabilized by Daenerys ending slavery in the biggest trade cities on the globe.

And nations invading other nations to pay off massive debt is something that has been a lot. Germany invaded Poland first to pay off debt to Switzerland using jew gold. When you completely destroy a wealthy country and take every bit of money, you can pay off a great deal.
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>>108359999
It’s because they had no other choice. You people are making stupid points. There are flaws in this show-like how do you storm high garden in a day? It’s he third biggest castle in Westeros-but these aren’t those flaws. Danny is leading a completely unpredictable revolutionary army that has ended the slave trade they depended on for income. The bank cannot trust a revolutionary to pay them back, so they need to bet on a horse that has a proven track record of paying them back.
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>>108360076
Margaery sees commoners as pawns she puts on an act though she doesnt terrorize commoners for the lulz like most nobles.
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>>108360103
>lannisters are in such a fucked position they have to resort to stealing gold from other families
>in a single raid the lannister army loses over a thousand supply wagons and hundreds of soldiers
Yeah I wouldn’t be giving Cersei any money right now if wanted to be sure I would get it back
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>>108357785
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>>108360103
>literally doesn't know how to handle money
>pays back her enormous debts with what the Iron Bank KNOWS is the last significant reserve of liquidity in all of Westeros
>The Iron Bank happily grants her an even bigger loan that they HAVE to know she'll never ever be able to pay back
This was the dumbest scene in the entire season, which is saying something.
>>
>>108360238
It’s a better bet than a dragon queen who is just as likely to burn your city to ashes as she is to pay you back. You can’t trust a dragon rider, they don’t have the same limitations that other humans have, they can trust cersei because the power balance is in their favor. They can’t trust dany because she has all the leverage and doesn’t need their legitimacy
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>>108360222
>worlds economy would be destabilized

... I don't think global economics worked the way you're assuming back then.
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>>108360313
The industrial revolution was built in the backs of African slaves gathering raw materials, Anon.
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>>108360298
How about they just not loan ANY money to the warring factions in Westeros?
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>>108356354
It was her turn.
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>>108360287
Not even close, dumbest scene is the fall of high garden. Second dumbest scene was the iron fleet ambush. I could right an essay on all the flaws this season, but yours wouldn’t be in that essay because they’re not real flaws. If you can’t see why a bank would support the weaker party then you don’t understand politics. The bank has leverage over Cersei, shes just human and she relies on a social and military structure that the bank understands and can work with. They have no idea what dany is going to do, they have no leverage over her like they do with Cersei, they’re at dany’s whims if they side with her. However if they side with the weaker dependable party that they know they can work with, them they’ll establish even better terms in a way that gives them leverage over Cersei in a way that they would never have over the mother of dragons
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>>108360287
>literally doesn't know how to handle money
She seems to be doing very well from their perspective
>her enormous debts
The crown's debts, which Bobby Baratheon was responsible for, not her
>the Iron Bank KNOWS is the last significant reserve of liquidity in all of Westeros
There's no reason they'd know the Lannister gold mines are dry, Tywin kept that close to the chest

And you know she's the Queen, right? She can tax the entire continent and owns a lot of it too.
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>>108360096
>le he has fear
again with this shit. its the equivalent of dragon powers for you showfags trying to defend this crap writting?
who would fear a man with no army? why would you think anyone would fear Jaimie?
>he is a proven commander
he only won one battle but also lost one to Robb.
>they'd trust Cersei as long as Jaimie was there
absolutely retarded statement. That's not how feudalism works. You do what is best for you, not trust an unproven man becausd is a main character. Just stop with this crap. Jaimie was an unacomplished character in the books and in the show, he was only good at fighting and he didn't get respect after his hand got cut.
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>>108360415
Then you have no influence when it’s over. You don’t make money investing AFTER stocks go up, you invest BEFORE and then reap the rewards. It’s a risk and you don’t win anything if you don’t play. If they don’t choose a horse this war, they lose their leverage in Westeros. Whoever wins needs to be indebted to them or they’ve failed
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>>108360415
Then how would they make money? Dany fucked up Slaver's bay and pillaged Qarth, who else is there?
>>
>>108360502
>>108360475
Why don’t they just invest in the Night King’s army?
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>>108360278
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>>108360424
This. It is well known Danny is on a justice crusade to change the world. Not very good for profit. Cersei wisely brings up to the Iron Bank rep how much money they've already lost with the ending of slavery.
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>>108360415
lol
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>>108360287
There is absolutely no way Tywin would let people outside of his immediate family know their gold mines are dry. It would dismantle their house overnight.
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>>108360313
You're underestimating how heavily interconnected the world has always been, even in ancient times.
Realistically, no more slave trade means everyone in Slaver's Bay suddenly becomes broke. Slaver's Bay is the only major hub between Volantis and Qarth, both of which are heavily reliant on trade, and especially the slave trade in Volantis' case. No more slave trade means Volantis becomes broke, and a ruined Slaver's Bay means trade no longer goes through Qarth as easily, with no prosperous cities between Qarth and the western Free Cities. This, in turn, means the Free Cities don't make any money any longer, because their trade routes just collapsed and their only neighbours are Dothraki savages who don't trade. And since everyone in Essos is completely reliant on slaves, except Braavos, then you can't even hope for a quick adjustment to the new situation. And since Braavos is at the very end of trade routes that now no longer exist, even Braavos becomes broke. And since Westeros is already broke, without any input of prosperity from the Free Cities, it'd get even more broke.
And just like that, basically the entire world west of Qarth is fucking broke, and everyone starves for decades to come.
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>>108360424
also Braavosis detest valyrians and dragons.
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>>108360461
The reason you’re wrong, and the reason nobody is convinced by your angry irrelevant ranting, is because you clearly don’t know your own history or you wouldn’t make stupid claims like this. The Lannister army is modeled after the Roman army, if you’ve read Roman history then you’d know that armies tend to declare their generals emperor because regardless of his skill or experience they know of they back the horse before he wins they’ll have more influence in his court. Men are selfish, they don’t care about legality if they personally benefit, there’s no reason to abandon their leaders if they’re alive, well-fed, and paid. They don’t give a damn otherwise. The lords might but we’ve already seen how scared they are, they’re not going to start a coup they’re a bunch of bitches because they have PTSD from Tywin rants. This is an army, armies will follow a stuttering fool if they think it’ll give them power and influence. If jaimie has poor character then it just emboldens those with poor character to join him because the standards are low enough for them
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>>108356354
>kill every noble and high ranking member of the local religion and every maester
>somehow this doesn't turn the entire kingdom against you

Any rational leader would try and get rid of the cersei problem before thinking about the Daenerys problem. There's no way she would have gotten away with this in any prior season. Random mass killings doesn't make you the leader she still would have had to build a supporter base. It's pure nonsense.
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>>108359665
Best thing her shit character has done in several season.
Same reason I dig Euron despite the way they butchered his character, becasue at least he killd two sandsnakes.
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>>108360721
More like Essosian spies would tell their nations about that "wildfire" shit and be like I gotta get me some of that.
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>>108360653
Slavery isn't the only trade in Slaver's Bay m8, nor are slave ships the only ships, Big Nig Xaro had over eighty and that was just for his trade in spices.
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>>108360437
>>108360638
Wrong.
First, the Seven Kingdoms are indebted to the Iron Bank. House Lannister is supposed to be crazy rich, yet the Iron Bank knows they, and not House Lannister, are the creditors, which is NOT how it usually works in Westeros. The enormous amount of debt the crown owed them would make it pretty clear that the Iron Bank alone is supplying the crown with liquidity, and the Iron Bank would, of course, know that.
Second, Cersei happens to repay this enormous debt right as the other crazy-rich House in Westeros collapses to her military. This would make it pretty clear that the gold came from Highgarden, not from the Westerlands.
If you're the Iron Bank, you must know there's something fishy going on.
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>>108360721
Bullshit. Plenty of real world leaders have massacred thousands to millions of people with no rise from the masses.
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There are whole subreddits dedicated to GoT show and GoT books (where you came from).
There's /got/ general on eightchan (where the autists went, and only the stupidest redditors stayed here).

Kindly stop polluting /tv/ with this pleb trash. For 161 posts the page displays 57 IPs, but as you've surely noticed, it often counts samefags multiple times. Meaning there are about 15 pathetic redditors averaging 10 posts each - fuck off.
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>>108360721
"Hmmm, you know what will help us defeat this dragon queen bitch?"
"No Bob, what?"
"Plunging the entire capitol into civil war!"
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>>108360834
>Slavery isn't the only trade in Slaver's Bay
Indeed, but it is by far the most lucrative trade. The area is literally called Slaver's Bay. No slaves means a lot fewer opportunities to make money, which in turn means fewer reasons to ever travel there. And since the closest major city further to the west is Volantis, which happens to also be suffering from the lack of slaves and is also a huge distance away, not to mention you have to sail past Valyria which is stated to be a dangerous undertaking, traders from Qarth will have a lot more incentive trading with Yi Ti and the other eastern realms.
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>>108356354
The Dothraki Sea, I wonder why they call it a sea.
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>>108360883
All the Iron Bank know is the master of coin took out loans on behalf of the crown, they'd rightfully assume Bobby didn't want to hand more power over to his traitorous in-laws by borrowing from them. They'd also know that people in Westeros would likely trust Lannister gold more than foreign gold, why not let the Iron Bank smelt it down into their own coinage when it's available?
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>>108360687
>Lannister army is modeled after the Roman army
no, there is no indication of this, neither in the books nor in the show
>lords are scared
they shouldn't be. its a dead ex machina.
>armies will follow a stuttering fool if they think it'll give power an influence
which is why lords would like to overthrow Cersei asap to appoint a new king like they did after Bobbys rebellion.
>le Tywin PTSD
Except Tywin was also good at ruling, diplomacy and strategy. So obviously people liked him.
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>>108360924
Benjamin Robinson details the hidden innuendo in the title by pointing out the correlation of Sneed, feed and seed all ending with the suffix "-eed," meaning Chuck's former ownership would imply the "-uck" suffix instead. Leading to the store being "Chuck's Fuck & Suck" if following the initial starting letters.
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>>108360883
They do know something is going on, they also know that Cersei could be a 12 year old bastard with autism and she’d still be preferable to a revolutionary dragon queen that they’d have no leverage over.
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>>108360924
Would you rather us spam Bobby B, big guy, and cp like every other shit thread on /tv/?
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>>108360924
obsessed
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>>108357700
>Ive figured it out, it's like macbeth.
But Macbeth did have a claim. He was a cousin of Duncan I and a cognatic grandson of Duncan's predecessor, Malcolm II. Furthermore, Macbeth was married to a granddaughter of Kenneth III, thus he could have been king via jure uxoris.
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>>108361020
>I'm half a kingdom in debt to his bloody father
This line implies most of the Crown's debts were owed to House Lannister, which itself didn't have the liquidity (obviously) and thus had to borrow directly from the Iron Bank. Tywin himself even says so, and points out it's "a tremendous amount". So it's actually even worse than I initially stated : the debt owed to the Iron Bank actually rests not on the crown, but on House Lannister itself, which can only mean the Lannisters are broke.
>>
Why did Randyll bother siding with Cersei? A war veteran is willing to face dragons and betray a widow of a family he's served all his life for a woman with no money who blew up the family he served his whole life?

Cersei was literally broke with no food, what's the point of supporting that to give her someone else's money and food?
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>>108360687
Tywin was cold but he wasn't ever unnecessarily cruel just for the fun of it; expect for Tyrion. It seemed like most people respected him a lot. If you knelt he generally helped you back up.
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>>108361023
No no no no NO NO NO. ABSOUTELY 100% NO. STOP. THIS. SOPHISTRY. The fact that you act like a coup is inevitable is why you’re wrong. It’s not inevitable and there are hundreds of instances in history of similar things happening, HUNDREDS. It is not a flaw in the plot that the minor Lannister lords didn’t rebel, they’re in no position to do so and their positions are instrinsically linked to their ruler and anything that shakes that up puts their livelihoods in danger. They’d just keep their heads down and mumble angrily into their cups, THATS WHAT HAS HAPPENED MORE OFTEN THAN NOT IN HISTORY. THE LACK OF A COUP IS NOT A PLOT HOLE. IT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY HAPPEN. PERIOD.
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>>108360424
What stops a united Westeros from just making a huge fleet and burning Braavos to the ground? There aren't any other significant powers around. The only country that could even come close to the strength of a united Westeros is Yiti,which is on the other side of the planet.
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>>108361172
>muh racist asshole
>YAAAASSS QUEEN SLAYYYY
That's why.
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>>108360924
based
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>>108361172
Nobody trusts a revolutionary dragon queen leading an army of eunuchs and savages, the dialogue between Jaimie and Tarly explicitly states this. In fact foreign invasions are the most consistent way to get medieval societies to put their differences aside and work together, happened all the time.
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>>108361226
>what is Pentos
>what is Myr
>what is Tyrosh
>what is Norvos
>what is Lorath
>what is Qohor
>what is Volantis
Literally the wealthiest nations in the planet.
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>>108357743
No. If a line goes extinct, interregnum begins and the nobles will gather to elect a new monarch.
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>>108361226
The autism of its nobility.
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>>108361172
Randyl Tarly defecting to Cersei didn’t make any sense. I mean Dany was coming to Westoros with a foriegn army but at the same time Cersei blew up the Westoros version of the Vatican.

The only reason I can see why Randyl joined Cersai is because that would’ve killed Cersai who the showwriters needed.
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>>108361172
He was an honorable man, he was loyal to his Leige Lord but his Leige Lord should have been loyal to the crown, and they weren't, they were supporting the daughter of the Mad King who, from what he knows, is just as mad as her father. I was okay with that. He was even smart though, and tried to convince his heir to declare loyalty to her when he realised he may not be on the winning side.
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>>108361226
>why didn’t the armies of Europe just band together and take out the Venetian fleet? It’s just a tiny little citystate how could it POSSIBLY project so much power over the seas?
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>>108361172
Ambition. He was promised the reach. To be its liege lord which is the equivelant of a lesser king. Liege lords are basically kings without crowns in control of the state / nation. And the Targ kings were basically king of kings. Controlling the entire landmass and everyone in it, shot calling from the crownlands.

He was basically given a once in a lifetime opportunity and promotion to go from lesser lord to controlling the entire reach as he sees fit in the name of the king.
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>>108361296
Those are all city-states. None of them should have the manpower to compete militarily with Westeros, even united. If Westeros' fleet just sailed in one day and sacked Braavos, there would be nothing they could do.

Now, if it was protracted, I suppose they could hire the Golden Company, and so on. And that wouldn't work out too well for Westeros, I guess.
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>>108361392
>what is Venice
>what is Athens
>what is Syracuse
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>>108361226
They can't even agree on who should be ruling Westeros, why would they put their differences aside and invade a nation that has no hostile intentions towards any of them?
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>>108361368
It's nowhere close to the same, anon. Never has all of Europe been united into one state.
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>>108361392
This is the straw that broke the camel’s back. You just proved you don’t know shit. Pick up a history book before speaking with authority like a twat
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>>108361392
The combined territory of the Free Cities is comparable to the entire land area of the Seven Kingdoms, and they also happen to be considerably more prosperous. Just because Essos is barely explored doesn't mean it's all an empty wasteland. In fact, it's the other way around : Westeros is kind of a backwater compared to the Free Cities.
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>>108361284
Except Tyrells and Dorne were already allied with her, and she has fucking dragons. Is Randyll retarded or something?

And I'm not even getting into how House Hightower and Redwyne, the two other biggest Houses in the Reach, would be around and stick to olenna
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>>108357783
Wouldn't help Robert doesn't have uncles with a claim. Robert justified his claim via his grandmother, Rhaelle Targaryen and she only had one child, Robert's father, Steffon.
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>>108361446
I LOVE being an Anglo and seeing Europe remain disunited
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>>108358805
>the equivalent of the vatican
>>108359171
>3 destroyed the vatican
>>108361337
>the Westoros version of the Vatican
Stop saying this, they aren't, it's a cult made up of peasants that she put in power like a year ago.
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>>108361429
After the wars to decide who is King. Obviously. They will be in crippling debt after stopping the White Walkers and having the War of Five Kings.

>>108361424
City-states that didn't have the manpower to deal with fighting an empire/kingdom, so they all got shit on?
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>>108361346
Cersei has no claim to the crown so there's no betrayaal especially since she blew up the Tyrells before seizing power illegitimately
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>>108361392
You can't "just sale one day" to conquer a far away land. You need the fleet, you need a shitton of supplies, you need a lot of soldiers and you need confidence that you won't be fucked by someone else while all of that is gone to fight in a land no one (including you) has ever seen.
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>>108361446
>what are the crusades
The point is, retard, that small city states can and HAVE REPEATEDLY competed with large empires and won. It happens all the time. A citystate’s navy is their professional army, their entire society is based on naval warfare. your point is akin to saying “why didn’t the Middle East just send all their ships to Athens and destroy their fleet?” Well retard anon, they did try that and they lost, because the Athenian fleet was better. The free cities fleets are better than anything in Westeros, just like Venice had the best fleet in the Middle Ages because that was THEIR THING. Bravos is literally Not!Venice
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>>108361226
>whats stopping the western world from simply removing israel
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>>108361497
I thought Essos was mostly plains of people that were constantly terrorized/murdered by Dothraki, with only a few great walled cities being exempt.
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>>108361566
The Sept of Baelor was the headquarters of the Faith of the Seven, which is pretty much a copy-paste of the Catholic Church, for hundreds of years.
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>>108361594
She sits on the throne and wears the crown, she has the same claim as Bobby: "I took it, it's mine now".
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>>108361226
I don't think you understand how important international trade is to the prosperity of a nation. Destroying one of the largest trading cities in the world also destroys any imports they receive from them.

Jesus fuck man. This is like basic concepts trade.
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>>108361508
>tyrells
run by a crazy old lady hellbent on vengeance
>martels
run by a crazy lady hellbent in vengeance
These are literally the arguments that Jaimie used to convince Tarly. His choice is to support what he knows, or to blindly support what he doesn’t know. His decision makes plenty of sense
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>>108361379
If he had stayed on Dany's side, he could've asked for a chunk of the Westerlands or Crownlands, and not had to fight dragons, he's retarded
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>>108361577
>City-states that didn't have the manpower to deal with fighting an empire/kingdom, so they all got shit on?
1/10 made me reply
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>>108361566
The Sept of Balor was the largest Sept/Church in the world, rivaled only by the one in Oldtown, and was the traditional seat for the High Septon which is basically their Pope. Say whatever about the sparrows but Cersei still destroyed the largest center of worship in the seven kingdoms.
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>>108358257
She doesn't even have a weak claim, consortship doesn't give you anything. What Cersei could have done is what Denethor did and rule as a regent for life.
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>>108361577
Dumbass retard stop posting. Venice was the fucking scourge of the seas for hundreds of years. Same with Athens, they literally defeated the Persian fleet and before that they had been sailing around the seas setting up colonies everywhere because they were really good sailors and sailing is what their society took pride. The point is, a single city state can punch WAY above their weight class in a naval battle, history is absolutely DRENCHED in instances of the smaller fleet winning, happens so much that I could write my thesis about it. It’s a HUGE risk to fight a naval battle with the free cities, totally not worth it and they’d totally lose.
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>>108361639
Apparently, you didn't remember the part where the Free Cities got so incredibly rich they could just pay off any Dothraki who wandered into their lands rather than waste any time or resources fighting them. Not to mention they could also be pacified through other means, like Drogo marrying Daenerys in Pentos in the first fucking episode of the series, remember that ?
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>>108361702
Syracuse and Athens were annexed by Rome. Venice was annihilated by France. I don't know why you're trying to pretend like that didn't happen?
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>>108361695
>yeah, let's support the obviously completely crazy dragon bitch who's bringing a literal horde of savages to our shores, because Targaryen rule was so fun
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>>108360924
t. autistic edgy obessed blacked bane poster
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>>108356681
Le Bastard
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>>108361695
Did you know that during he high Middle Ages, the infantry would wait in the camp while the knights fought the whole battle? Did you know that they considering flanking dishonorable and do they only charged headfirst? Did you know that battles were won because one side was too chivalrous and refused to even consider the possibility of a flanking maneuver which ended up happening and losing them the battle? Men make stupid decisions in the medieval era based on honor and chivalry. Furthermore ethnocentrism and racism also play a part
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>>108361820
>these city-states were destroyed so they were shit
>forgets how each and every one of these literally ruled the entire Mediterranean for CENTURIES before falling
All nations fall eventually, brainlet. But each of these tiny city-states fought several times against huge and extremely powerful empires and won, not once, but on multiple occasions.
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>>108361695
He lacked foresight but wasn't entirely wrong in terms of his prejudice to who was supporting daenerys.
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>>108361649
But it's like a king removing the Pope and all its top administration and replacing it with some rebels.
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>>108361820
Thanks for validating my posts. It really helps to see how stupid you actually are to put this whole conversation into perspective
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>>108361938
Did I say that city-states were useless? No, I said that they couldn't compete against an empire. And history proves me right. You people need to stop crying, seriously.
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>>108361974
I'm sure this has happened irl, especially before the Church of England
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>>108361934
Some high-level history right here. Also,
>middle ages
>racism
based murrican.
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>>108362005
Fucking embarassing anon. Venice gets conquered by a land army hundreds of years after dominating the seas against empires and this proves that Westeros could definitely win a naval battle against bravos because France won a siege against Venice? Dumbass you can walk from France to Venice, just a river in the way. Bravos is across the damn sea, you have to win a naval battle to invade and there’s no guarantee you’ll win that naval battle. For hundreds of years people thought like you did and proceeded to get wrecked by Venice. They did not win in the scenario you are claiming that Westeros should undertake, France won under completely different circumstances. Same thing with Athens, an army walked up and conquered the city. They did not lose a naval battle. You cannot do this to bravos, you can’t “walk up” to bravos you need to win the naval battle first and that’s unlikely
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>>108361577
>City-states that didn't have the manpower to deal with fighting an empire/kingdom, so they all got shit on?

Venice survived wars against the Holy Roman Empire, the Pope, the Byzantine Empire and the Ottoman Empire, each of the most powerful forces of their time. None of them ever took the city, and Venice managed this without a proper standing army.

Learn 2 history.
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>>108362151
Oh yeah racism totally didn’t exist in the Middle Ages hur dur I cant believe I’m still giving this retard (you)s
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>>108361934
>Did you know
>follows it up with a bunch of horseshit
Fuck off, you obviously don't know what you're talking about, mutt.
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>>108359705
Again, it doesn't matter because all legitimate descendants of Rhaelle Targaryen are dead.
>>
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>>108362167
Absolutely seething.
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>>108362240
>I choose to ignore historical facts that ruin my narrative
Are you a Byzaboo or something ?
>>
>>108362005
Venice did this numerous times. It was pretty much unconquerable at its prime. It was only centuries later once it had lost its empire and was no longer financial powerhouse that Napoleon conquered it.
>>
>>108356354
The people who write the show stopped caring that it doesn't make any sense years ago. So there's no reason for you to care.
>>
>>108362204
Anon, it's not as simple as that. In everyone war against fellow Latins, Venice had kingdoms as allies, like Spain, Milan, or England, and in every war against the Byzantines (I could only find two, one of which they lost), the Byzantines also had to be fighting the Turks at the same time. None of this happens in a vacuum.

In this example, there are no other KINGDOMS to shield Braavos, and throw bodies in the way for them, like Venice had. It's just the tiny city-state(s) against the big bad empire.
>>
>>108362238
Robert took the throne by right of conquest, invalidating any Targaryen claims to the throne. The Baratheon line is where legitimacy should be determined.
>>
>>108362274
You don't want to know
>>
>>108362238
Daenerys is the legit ruler as she's the real blackfyre and anyone who isn't of Daemons line is pig shit.
>>
>>108358890
>my plebbit tier history knowledge is sure to prove that GoT isn't badly written!!
fuck off david. justinian almost lost his throne at that moment, the only reason he didn't is because the crowd picked a coward for the new throne.
and justinian was a very well liked ruler himself, imagine a crowd rioting against an incestuous whore who cucked to the church and went through the city naked. and in a kingdom where already about a dozen people have declared themselves kangz and have all gotten a following. it is absolutely impossible to imply that murdering everyone in that church, a church with some incredibly well liked people, would not result in a rebellion.
>>
>>108362444
There's a fucking sea. But you clearly have no idea what logistics is, just like the show creators. You see, it's a little bit more complicated than walking to your fridge for some soda.
>>
>>108362444
>tiny city-states
>literally control more land area than the Iron Throne does
>also has a much higher population
Right.
>>
>>108360917
No one is talking about the masses.
>>
>>108362444
The Ottomans was just one example out of many, to show that Venice withstood literally everything the period could throw at them.

Venice also survived invasion by the Holy Roman Empire at its peak, and France, and a holy league of every western power led by the Pope. Venice just couldn't lose.

Even when left totally alone they managed to hire armies to keep the Republic defended while they bamboozle their enemies into fighting each other.
>>
>>108362214
Lmao retard
https://youtu.be/Rj24yTIc-HE
>>
>>108362633
>unironically linking to fucking Bazbattles
You have to be over 18 to post on this website
Also holy shit dude I hadn't laughed this hard in a while you're so fucking dumb
>>
>>108362573
You people are ridiculous. Are you just going to pretend that war against other countries is impossible if water is in the way? Just fuck off, dude.

>>108362581
I haven't read the books. I was under the impression that the interior of Essos was sparsely populated and under constant threat of being enslaved by Dothraki, with only a few exceptions.
>>
For all of those who say "everyone knows she blew up the vatican". She told the envoy from the Iron Bank that it was the work of religious fanatics, aka the sparrow and his friends. She probably told the peasants the same thing.
>>
>>108356354
>Series based on the books
>Lazy old bastard stops writing the books while the show continues onward
>Hack showmakers can adapt books, but not write their own scripts for shit
What did you expect?
>>
>>108356354
When the show caught up to the books the writers through everything out the window and made it up as they went along. She became queen because of her vagina. Now everyone on the show with any sort of power is women.
>Circi (the whole point of the books was the blood lines to prove who was rightfully King/Queen) Once the second boy died it would have went to a different male. They completely forgot about the storyline about the blacksmith bastard, and forgot about how to kill white walkers and had them coming back to life last season and the only way to kill them is to kill their liches. Horrible show now.
>>
>>108362703
>with only a few exceptions
The Free Cities are these few exceptions, yeah. Every single one of them is basically bigger than King's Landing, and each one has a massive hinterland. They're also so rich they pay off any Dothraki that come close so they leave them alone.
>>
>>108362566
Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck. Up. It doesn’t matter who the ruler is, Justinian could have been a monkey with a typewriter and the ROMAN FUCKING ARMY would have done the same thing and succeeded in the same way because FUCKING ARMIES CAN PUT DOWN MOBS. Stupid fucking shit I started this conversation just trying to be nice and inform some uninformed people about some shit but you just continue to be an irrational unreasonable little shitbag who refuses to admit he was wrong. Fuck you i absolutely hate people like you more than anything
>>
>>108362703
An amphibious assault against the major naval trading power of the time would be suicide.
>>
>>108362772
Based
>>
>>108359765
>He guys, did you hear about Varys?
>No, what about the Spider?
>Varys says that Daenerys has landed in Dragon Stone with a massive army and that if we imprison Cersei and let them in, Varys will see to it that we'll get a thousand acres of good farmland. Otherwise, Daenerys is going to burn everybody in King's Landing.
>>
>>108362702
My initial reaction was to logically respond to your fallacy. Then I thought, “fuck this stupid little shit he absolutely refuses to admit he was wrong and never will” so instead I’m just gonna say I absolutely despise people like you
>>
>>108362772
>I started this conversation just trying to be nice and inform some uninformed people about some shit
You're denying the Nika sedition almost brought down the Byzantine empire, which is an accepted fact amongst all scholars. Fuck off.
>>
>>108356354
Doesn't she just control King's Landing and maybe the immediate surroundings? How do the people eat? Where does the money come from?
>>
>>108362612
Of the seven Ottoman-Venetian wars, the Ottomans won six of them, and they had allies for that war, with little spoils. Not a very good track record.

As for the HRE vs Venice, are you talking about the War of the League of Cambrai? Venice had Spain, England, and Milan as allies, and the HRE switched sides halfway through the war to join Venice, so that's not a very good example of Venetian strength, either. Or did you mean a different war?
>>
>>108362833
>links to Bazbattles
>expects people to take him seriously
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>>108362848
THE FUCKING RELEVANCE TO THIS GOD. DAMN. CONVERSATION WAS THAT YOU FUCKING SAID THE “PEOPLE” WOULD RISE UP AND OVERTHROW CERSEI. I SHOWED YOU TWO EXAMPLES OF ROMAN ARMIES PUTTING DOWN PUBLIC INSURRECTIONS. I COULD GIVE YOU ANOTHER 30 IF I WANTED TO
>>
>>108362772
You're going against the common narrative and trying to be smug about it. You are, at best, an uneducated dropout bathing in your own ignorance.
>>
>>108362897
Dumbass it validates everything I said, you can look up the fucking battle from whatever fucking source you want and it’ll still be the same fucking battle you absolute fucking retard. The battle proves everything I said
>>
>>108362910
Cersei doesn't have an army. The city militia is not an army.
>>
>>108362888
The point is Venice never got sacked once, it managed to bounce back from all of those stronger than before. The League of Cambrai was the absolute best example, even with the majority of Christendom against them, Venice still ended up on the winning side.

Do you think Westeros is more united behind Cersei than western europe was around the Papacy?

Braavos is a literal Venice clone. It's on islands in a lagoon. You'd need a superior navy to beat it, and one of those is not forthcoming.
>>
>>108362910
Well, sorry anon, but using the Nika sedition as an example of how an army can put down a mob was misguided, because it's actually one of these few attempts that, albeit successful in the end, came very, very close to failure and complete collapse.
>>
>>108357672
Robert actually DOES have a surviving heir, in the form of his bastard Gendry. Who, BTW, was brought back in season seven and basically told Davros to fuck off when Davros tried to get him to hide his identity from John Snow, resulting in him telling John that he's Robert's kid first thing when they met.
>>
>>108362935
The “common narrative?” What the fuck is that? Your stupid headcanon that claims something shouldn’t happen despite the fact that I have repeatedly referenced instances where something similar happened in history?
>>
>>108362712
>The Sept of Baelor just conveniently blew up on the day that Cersei was supposed to be tried there
>>
>>108362961
>The battle proves everything I said
Anon, you're on fire today! Please, don't stop.
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>>108362910
>THEREFORE, INSURRECTIONS ARE IMPOSSIBLE AND HAVE A 0% CHANCE OF SUCCESS, HISTORY PROVES ME RIGHT
Anon, maybe you should take a walk and calm down.
>>
>>108362819
>an invite from a Targaryan to an enemy
No reason to be suspicious here boss, lets go!
>>
>>108362994
Cersei has the Lannister army. Your headcanon about them not following cersei is headcanon. There are several historical circumstances of the army supporting an illegitimate ruler. Your entire argument is fucking stupid
>>
>>108362857
3 of the 7 kingdoms are still loyal to Tommen and before she blew up the sept, the Tyrells were feeding the capital. Then they sacked Highgarden and gave the plunered gold to he Iron Bank, which would allow her to probably borrow some more gold for hiring the Golden Company and buying/importing food. The food from Highgarden got destroyed by Kelly C and her dragon while on its way to the capital.
>>
>>108362961
>it validates everything I said
Indeed, which is why you thought it was a good idea to use it as a trump card. However...
First, expecting a single instance in a single battle to prove a broad point about the entire Middle Ages is spectacularly dumb.
Second, if you want to get serious about analyzing military history, Bazbattles is the LAST place you should go if you want anyone to ever take you seriously.
Now shoo.
>>
>>108363005
There are dozens of instances of armies putting down mobs. A fucking public uprising is not such a consistent and dependable circumstance that it is literally a plot hole if it doesn’t happen, that was literally your claim so keep shifting goalposts but you’re wrong
>>
>>108357525
have a (you)
>>
>>108363032
That’s not what I said. YOU are the one claiming that an insurrection MUST occur or it’s a plot hole. That’s your whole fucking argument retard. I hate you so much
>>
>>108363103
I'm not the anon who made the original claim, in fact I believe his claim was stupid as fuck. I'm only pointing out the fact that you're doing a poor job of defending your claim, which I believe is actually correct.
>>
>>108356354
>How did she become queen again?
D&D had to write for themselves.
>>
>>108363018
Loras was also tried. You could spin it into the faith militant blowing Loras, the Queen and themselves in atonement or some shit. They can't argue against it since they just blew up.
>>
>>108362910
okay, post 30, whats that? you cant? only 1?
thought so, bitch.
>>
>>108362772
>Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck. Up.
cringe.
>FUCKING ARMIES CAN PUT DOWN MOBS.
they barely did in the nika revolts. and armies can also go against their own emperors in times of crises. often led by politicians. I explained this anon, and in the unprecedented level of instability in king's landing this would be nothing but natural. not to mention cercei has no political backing whatsoever or any realistic control of "her" armies. armies that largely don't exist anymore because she has no money. who will accept her exactly?
>Stupid fucking shit. I started this conversation just trying to be nice
>I wanted to be nice but you wrote a post saying mean things like disproving me and now I'm sad and angry >:(
fuck off sperg. you have no argument.
>>
>>108363086
Stupid, fucking, retard. Listen one more time before you shift the fucking goalposts again, this is the absolute last fucking time I’m gonna say it: THE CONTEXT of my statement was that medieval rulers make stupid decisions based on chivalry. I used an example of a battle where a medieval ruler makes a dumb decision because of chivalry. I can find more than just that example, it just happened to be relevant RETARD. I’m done. Fuck. You.
>>
>>108363010
You've picked an example you know nothing about, an example that proves the point of your opponent instead of your own, and now you're paying the salty price.
>>
>>108363156
NO I AN NOT. I perfectly defended my claim socratically. I challenged a claim, provided evidence, and established my own reasoning. That is the fucking Socratic method. I said nothing wrong, I did nothing wrong, I haven’t been wrong at all. You just want the last word, you’re just a little shit that wanted to feel superior but it turns out you weren’t
>>
>>108363213
>my statement was that medieval rulers make stupid decisions based on chivalry
Indeed, that was your point.
>I can find more than just that example
Please do.
>>
>>108357783
>The consort of a monarch isn't in the line of succession

Depends on the law of the realm and politics of the moment. See, Catherine the Great and so on. Russians were really into the sort of thing.
>>
>>108363137
Anon, you're talking to multiple people. This is why this shitty board needs IDs.
>>
>>108363203
I hate you. Kill yourself. You know I’m right
>>108363217
>>
>>108362772
Based.
>>
>>108361690
>a crazy old lady hellbent on vengeance
How is Olenna crazy for wanting revenge against the woman who blew up her son and grandchildren? How does Randyll not care that Cersei blew up his liege lord, his children, Cersei's own uncle, killed the grand Maester and Tommen just happens to die so she can take the thrown. He already knows Cersei is nuts
>>
>>108363301
You’re all fucking wrong. I haven’t said anything wrong. I am 100% right. One-fucking-hundred percent. I said NOTHING wrong. I am COMPLETELY CORRECT. Bye
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>>108363270
>I'M DEFENDING MYSELF SOCRATICALLY
>contents of half his posts are either in all caps or calling the other person a retard
Anon...
>>
>that one autistic anon sperging out
Most fun I've had in ages
>>
>>108363356
None of that matters more than the political situation, Tarly puts his personal feelings aside
>>
>>108362467
He based his claim to it on his Targaryen blood. You have Jon Arryn to thank for that
>>
>>108363312
at this point I feel like you should know you're debating with about three different people. my posts were:
>>108362566
>>108363203
>>
>>108363388
Claim
1)the city would have revolted, the lords would have revolted, nobody would follow cersei
I proceeded to use examples to disprove every single claim. You people started nitpicking irrelevant bullshit that STILL managed to be wrong
>>
>>108362994
>Cersei doesn't have an army
the whole fucking lannister army that have rekt literally ever other house in battle
>>
>>108363270
Ah yes, the famous socratic defense, where you behave like a spastic fucking moron. Very socratic indeed.
>>
He’s claiming that it’s a plot hole if they don’t rebel against Cersei. That’s literally his claim. I did nothing but prove that claim false. I have said nothing but the truth. Keep giving me (you)s and virtue signaling that you disagree, nothing shows im right more
>>
>>108363270
>I perfectly defended my claim socratically
lmao who talks like this?
>>
>>108363488
see
>>108363448
Would you like to continue the debate you lost or are you just gonna call me a sperg another 40 times?
>>
>>108363446
He really could live without that knowledge, you know? He's already unstable enough.
>>
>>108363533
Dude see >>108363396
We're literally just having fun watching you have a meltdown
>>
Holy aspergers this thread is fucked now
>>
>>108363448
I'm not that person. I'm just laughing about you screaming and rhetorically shitting your pants.
>>
>>108363562
>>108363572
Haha so funny he sperged out lol the argument doesn’t matter anymore because we’re laughing now hahaha
>>
Also, to answer OP's question for why everyone in Kings Landing is just accepting Cersei's ascension to the throne:

1. She killed off House Tyrell, the High Sparrow and his followers AND pretty much all of the nobles who hated the Lannisters (as far as wiping out the nobles who were at the trial to watch Cersei be found guilty).

2. She is also, through the "birds" spy network, got all of Kings Landing scared shitless to EVER talk about or bring up her walk of shame. If she finds out that someone has talked about it, especially talking about it in regards to Cersei being a cunt that got the punishment she deserved with the nude walk, she sics the Mountain on you to kill you in horrific fashion.

3. The Iron Bank supports her 100%, especially after she paid off the Lannister's considerable debts to them via blood money obtained wiping out the Tyrells.

4. She has all of the city's cops (the Gold Cloaks) and the military behind her 100%.

5. It's also implied (Jamie) that most of the people, while scared shitless of their evil queen, are willing to tolerate her as their ruler so long as shit finally calms down. People who want stability are willing to turn a blind eye towards Cersei's power play so long as she retains the status quo.

6. Danny is seen as a literal nightmare due to stories of what she did liberating the slaves across the sea; both the things she actually did and the things that her enemies lied about her doing. Worse, she's backed by fucking DRAGONS (literal WMDs) and the Dothraki, the later of which are infamous as rapists and murderers to the people the invade.

TL;DR: Everyone is scared shitless of Cersei, especially because she will kill you if you talk shit about her. But also, everyone is so fucking tired of fighting that they will put up with the psycho-queen if she keeps the trains running on time, plus protect them from people who are even WORSE than her.
>>
>>108363270
am I being trolled here? does the socratic method include chimping out in a discussion about game of thrones?
>>
>>108363621
>he keeps going
Fucking hell man
>>
>>108363533
>Keep giving me (you)s
No problem, but you have to keep entertaining us in exchange. Please, tell me more about the Nika sedition, Socrates and proofs.
>>
>>108363575
No you’re avoiding the fact that you lost the debate by repeatedly pretending like you’re above it all and having fun when really you’re just trying to recover your pride after losing a debate. Everyone does this on 4chan you’re obviously new if you think it’ll work. Caps lock isn’t that funny, getting mad at retards is justified. You are not actually laughing, you’re actually seething because you lost a debate and you’re hoping that by making fun of me it validates you. It doesn’t
>>
>>108363635
Shhhh. He's very calm and rational. Do not talk shit about him or he will show you the error of your ways.
>>
>>108363621
haha lol
>>
>>108363627
this guy made more sense that the sperg in only one post.
based
>>
>>108363714
Hahaha nice meta discussion so fanny let’s talk about him like he’s a kid and we’re adults so mature and above it all that’s why I spent 200 posts arguing a point that I eventually lost and then damage controlled by pretending to laugh about it
>>
>haha haha he’s so mad and I’m not and in order to prove that I’ll keep posting until I get the last word for literally an hour because that’s how much I don’t care
Sure dude, sure. Not like you’re the 500th person to do this in the last 12 years I’ve been here
>>
>>108363627
Based post, if only you were here in the beginnng of the thread
>>
>>108363710
Dude do you know where you are? Any weakness in your discourse and people will just punish you for it, and everything you posted so far has either been factually decent but poorly argumented claims, complete nonsense or autistic screeching.
>>
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>>108363773
HE'S STILL POSTING
>>
>>108363818
There is no weakness in my discourse. Caps lock and cursing does not make my arguments any less correct. You wish it did, then you’d have something to cling. Tell me, what would you have done if I didn’t use caps lock? Exactly the same thing, just a different tactic. I gave you an out with caps lock and you took it. That makes you look weak, not me
>>
Just so we're all clear, before the thread dies. After Westeros is united, it could shit on Braavos.
>>
>>108363819
Yes, I am. So are you. I wonder why? I mean you don’t care apparently, it’s all just a funny game, but for some reason you’re compelled to get the word. Because you DONT care, right. That makes sense
>>
>>108363880
nah caps lock means you lose. Sorry, those are the rules.
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>>108363880
>There is no weakness in my discourse
>Caps lock and cursing does not make my arguments any less correct
>>
>>108363895
No retard you’re wrong, you’ve been wrong, you’re still wrong, making fun of me didn’t change anything. Maybe post “SEETHING” another 5 times and that will change things
>>
>>108363627
It doesn't work like that when you can kill the scary evil tyrant with zero repercussions at any given moment. She was never a feudal lord, she doesn't have people loyal personally to her and she has no legitimacy to her rule. Any general, or a person of equal prestige, can just walk to her and fuck her over, being backed by his men that served him for decades till now.
>>
>>108363895
Highly unlikely. Doing so would most likely result in crippling naval defeats and civil war, with Braavos' favoured claimant dethroning whoever was foolish enough to mount such a war.
>>
>>108360937
Happened during the Fourth Crusade. Crusaders installed Alexios IV as a puppet, people of Constantinople hated the Crusaders and replaced him with Alexios V, while the Crusaders were still camping outside.
>>
>>108356812
Stannis the Mannis' son.
>>
>>108363951
>mfw I realize I've been agreeing with the sperg all along
See, this is how poorly laid-out your claims were.
>>
>>108363940
>>108363939
*last word*
>>
>>108356354
To me, Kings Landing looks like it's just 80% poor people. Especially now it's all gone to shit. So no one's going to bat an eye lid to someone sitting on the throne.
>>
>>108363895
>get a huge army together and put them in boats
>"alright guys time to invade Braavos"
>fleet gets sunk
>everyone dies
Such a brilliant idea
>>
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>>108358961
Indeed. However, let's go with the one that killed the largest amount of people, and caused the most suffering.
>>
>>108363951
If you're going to sit here and tell me that the 40 million people of the militarized empire of Westeros couldn't make more ships than the 800,000 people of trade-city Braavos, then I don't know what to tell you.
>>
>>108363809
>I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A GORILLION YEARS AND I'M NOT SPERGING OUT I SWEAR
anon, for the love of god, take your pills. the fact of the matter is you used a shitty example to defend your viewpoint, defended your general outlook poorly, and proceeded to sperg out against everyone.
>>
>>108364010
Fuck you retard my claims were perfectly clear. You just refuse to admit that “a sperg” was right, THAT is what is illogical not my caps lock. Disagree? Good, then PROVE IT. Tell me what is unclear, show me exactly which sentence I posted that was wrong or misleading. If you do that, you’ll have made a socratic argument. Until then, you just keep claiming a state of affairs that you won’t actually prove because you can’t. I have adequately responding to all of the logical challenges you presented, you have not given me the same courtesy which is why I got mad in the first place
>>
>>108363952
the entire lannister army is loyal to her. What do you think they would do to someone who killed their queen? Plus she has the undead juggernaut who is fanatically loyal to her
>>
>>108364086
>If you're going to sit here and tell me that the 150 million people of the militarized empire of China couldn't make more ships than the 15 million people of tiny-ass Britain, then I don't know what to tell you
>>
>>108364099
>shitty example
No. It. Wasn’t. You’ve made this claim half a dozen times ITT without supporting that claim. You keep saying something without proving it. Not once. You tried, and you were wrong. I responded to your post and proved you wrong, then you went on a tangent about my caps lock
>>
>>108364124
>proceeds to ignore every post where he got shit on
>>
>>108364124
What were your claims?
>>
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>>108364124
>he still keeps going
>>
>>108364177
You don’t have a single post I haven’t responded to. Post it now if that’s the case I’ll prove you wrong again if I have to. My example was PERFECT for what I argued. PERFECT. Until you PROVE otherwise fuck off. Oh no I used caps lock again guess you can ignore the argument again
>>
>>108364160
Braavos and Westeros are on relatively even grounds technologically, with Westeros perhaps even having a slight edge, with wildfire.
>>
>>108364144
>What do you think they would do to someone who killed their queen?
Well, what would they do? No, really? According to the show, she might as well be the last Lannister for all they know. Those soldiers are sentient beings, right? They are bound to think for at least one step ahead, right?
>>
>>108364189
I had no claims. I was disproving a claim with an example. The burden of proof is one him. Keep up retard
>>
>>108364252
Braavos has a massive edge in trade, which means a massive edge in shipbuilding.
>>
>>108364279
>get asked what he's arguing about
>doesn't really remember, but is emotionally invested, so he calls them a retard instead
>>
>>108364258
>Those soldiers are sentient beings, right?
they haven't been for 8 seasons so idk. They probably literally believe they are saving westeros from an invading dragon army and holding off another 1000 year rule of crazy targaryan faggots
>>
>>108363356


They explained the Tarly situation in the season seven premiere.

Sam's dad didn't give a fuck about Cersei killing Margery and Loras and company. Partly because the Tarlleys were Lannister loyalists 100% and more to the point, were steaming mad that Olenna's allies in her revenge plans were the Dothraki, the Iron Born, Dorne. The first two being notorious barbarian rapist and pillagers, the last one being High Garden's historical rival.

Jamie basically convinced Sam's family to help finish off the remaining Tyrells, by offering to make the Tarlleys the new lords of High Garden (meaning they run the region) and by reminding them of that Danny would throw the seven kingdoms into chaos with her raping and pillaging allies, plus Dorne using their relationship with Danny to finally wipe out their long standing enemy
>>
>>108364086
In the time it would take them to build a fleet like that, Braavos would buy a bigger one.

In medieval times (and GoT is vaguely meant to represent something like the medieval world, though it fails in almost every respect) you really can't overstate the power gap of naval powers verses non naval powers.

Did you know that Venice ended up with more spoils out of the first crusade than any kingdom, because they were the ones who actually provided the fleet?

It wasn't until the renaissance that any Kingdom had a naval force anything like Venice's.
>>
>>108364176
who is "you"? this is why this board needs ID's. your example was shitty because the revolt destroyed half the city including the old church of hagia sophia and was barely ever put down by the military. justinian and his advisers seriously considered fleeing. game of thrones has absolutely no mention of dissatisfaction with the new ruler. also, you posting a wikipedia article doesn't somehow give you empirical evidence on your barely defended point.
>>
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>>108364279
>my claims were perfectly clear
>I had no claims
FUCKING HELL DUDE
>>
>>108364124
>Fuck you retard my claims were perfectly clear.
>>108364279
>I had no claims
gotcha
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>>108364296
Per capita, definitely. But the ONE city of Braavos is not going to have more trade than even ONE Kingdom of the Seven Kingdoms.
I agree with all of you that the city-state model lets one punch far beyond the weight that a city should, but it simply can't compete with an Empire. That's all I'm saying. They'd put up a good fight, I agree. They'd just lose in the end.
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>>108364124
Bro, you really should let it go.
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>>108364384
Yes, it would.

Literally learn2history. Braavos controls what is essentially the ASoIaF version of the Silk Road into the west.

Again, I point to the countess examples of Venice beating every empire that came up against it. They even beat goddamn Charlemagne. You don't fuck with the city that controls all the money.
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>>108364321
I remember perfectly retard. He has made two stupid claims in this thread which I have socratically challenged successfully with no retort. The first claim:
1)cersei would have been overthrown, it is a plot hole that she wasn’t.
This happens to be the fucking point of this thread btw maybe read the OP before commenting. My response was to provide evidence and examples of why she would not necessarily be overthrown. I’m not saying she couldn’t be overthrown, I’m saying it’s not 100% either way so ITS NOT A PLOT HOLE.
The second claim, which is even more stupid and stemmed from avoiding admitting that he was wrong about the first claim, was:
2) that Westeros could easily conquer the free cities.
I challenged this claim by giving examples of why this is not necessarily the case.
I was greeted by 50 posts calling me a sperg and avoiding the debate
I remember everything
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>>108364366
>>108364365
>muh semantics
I’m speaking socratically so it’s understandable that you missed the context. My “claim” was that his claim was false. That is what I meant. Your irrelevant semantics distinction does not win you this debate
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>>108364493
>HE STILL KEEPS FUCKING GOING
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>>108364411
I’m completely right why would I do that? Because I have about 40 (you)s with no arguments? Because you keep responding to me telling me that I’m a sperg or that I’m wrong but never actually proving why? Do you think intellectual cowardess scares me? Your inability to argue has emboldened me
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>>108364452
If you're the same anon I was talking to earlier, I thought I told you that Venice lost 6 of their 7 wars against the Ottomans, only won ONE war against the Byzantines, who were locked in combat against the Turks at the time, and weren't particularly impressive against the Holy Roman Empire, as they had other people do all the fighting for them, before then stabbing their allies in the back and siding with their former enemies. And then in the end, when Venice had no more allies who would die in their stead, they got annihilated by France.

Venice has a less impressive military record than they do a diplomatic record. And Braavos doesn't have any major military powers they can call on to help them.
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>>108364493
>>108364557
can you speak normally?
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>>108364583
Wow so the first 30 posts didn’t win you the debate, it your 31st virtue signal is gonna do it? Gonna run out of reactions before I stop posting
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>>108364615
>Braavos doesn't have any major military powers they can call on to help them
You keep stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the existence of no less than six other extremely powerful Free Cities.
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>>108364602
>40 posts laughing at how autistic you are
>LOOK AT ALL MY YOUS THOUGH, I'M THE REINCARNATION OF SOCRATES
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>>108364633
I am, it’s not my fault you never took philosophy and don’t know how to actually debate
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>>108364656
>Gonna run out of reactions before I stop posting
I certainly hope so
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>>108364493
>I remember perfectly retard. He has made two stupid claims in this thread which I have socratically challenged successfully with no retort.
there was retort, just from different people who had different things to say. you can literally go back the post chain to see what each anon said and why your opinion is invalid. there being more shitposting than rhetoric replying to your autistic screeching is only a testament to how dumb you are.
please go to sleep.
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>>108364696
>it’s not my fault you never took philosophy and don’t know how to actually debate
Indeed, everyone knows the secret to winning a debate is putting forth retarded claims then shrieking uncontrollably when people point out your stupidity and ending up a universal laughingstock. You sure showed us, buddy !
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>>108364693
Your inability to argue socratically proves everything. These virtue signals are just you telling everyone with a brain
>look guys I lost a debate but I’m desperately trying to maintain my dignity by posting 50 times about how much of a sperg the guy I lost a debate to was
>>108364730
Or you could just admit I’m right about literally everything and your only argument is “le sperg SEETHING XD”
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>>108364689
Well, there's no real guarantee that they'd all leap to Westeros' defense. Who knows if they don't also owe debts to Braavos that they'd like to see erased? I don't know.
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>>108364615
Yeah I'm that anon, and you ignored my points back then.

Braavos had the rest of the free cities, as well as the rest of Westeros.

Venice did eventually lose against the Ottomans, but this was in a period after it had lost its supremacy in terms of trade that you could compare to Braavos', and pretty much everyone lost against the Ottomans. Note that the Turks were still unable to ever conquer the city itself, in fact no-one was capable of doing that for over a thousand years, it took Napoleon, once Venice was little more than a cultural tourist attraction, to be able to take the lagoon.

Large feudal empires fair incredibly badly against city states like this. Westeros would require a giant navy that it would have to produce under, most likely, a crippling blockade from Braavos starving its cities to death.
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>>108364696
Oh, so you're not only a distinguished historian, but a decent philosopher as well? Truly a man of many talents.
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>>108364763
Anon, I'm unsure if you've even (You)'d any of my posts. I'm just laughing at what a sperg you are.
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>>108364747
What’s the retort then? Post it. Use that greentext you love so much. Let me tell you why you keep saying this instead of posting the “retorts:” there is no retort, I’ve won every debate. If your retort was worth mentioning you’d use it now to prove me wrong instead of continuing to reference something that doesn’t exist
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>>108364696
>if you become so pathetic that everyone is laughing at you, you win
Really makes me think
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People keep forgetting that WINTER IS COMING™, if they wanted to overthrow Cersei and plunge into yet another war/conflict that would mean more gold and more lost lives. They weren't up for that, why would they? muh honour and muh allegiances don't stand when your servants are starving
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>>108364789
I kind of feel like we're talking past each other, anon.
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>>108364761
Not an argument
>>108364795
It’s called college. You learn truth tables in philosophy 101.
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>>108364763
>I’m right about literally everything
>>108356523
>I have no claims
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>>108364801
>I’m just trying to maintain my dignity after losing a debate
We know, we can tell
>>108364841
>le sperggg ur wrong *references arguments that don’t exist*
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>>108364889
It’s easy to be right about everything when your only claims are disproving other stupid claims. It’s easy because only need to provide a single example to prove a claim like that wrong, it’s a stupid position to hold in the first place
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>>108364859
Maybe. My point is that, essentially, wars against powers like Venice are never straight number crunching (very few real wars actually are), and don't go in favour of the alliances of feudal states that don't get on.

The most likely result of a Westerosi invasion of Braavos would be civil war in Westeros and regime change, with a Braavos-approved puppet on the Iron Throne.
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>>108364919
>le sperggg ur wrong *references arguments that don’t exist*
Hmm, yes, very rational and socratic indeed. I am convinced.
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>>108364868
>It’s called college
I think we're onto something here! Tell me, good man, how many genders are there?
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>>108364970
Thanks for outlining exactly what I said for him even though I already told him all that and the only reason he didn’t listen to me was because I was mean to him and he’d rather admit defeat to you than me
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>>108364808
these will do.
>>108362566
>>108364343
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>>108365016
>>108365037
1)cersei would not necessarily be overthrown
2)Westeros cannot easily conquer bravoos
Those are my arguments. That is all. Take pride in whatever else you can because me being wrong has nothing to do with your misplaced sense of dignity
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>>108365040
Sorry I have no idea who "he" is or who you are for that matter, my only posts have been on this topic because I'm a Venicaboo.

Which one is the anon who threw the tantrum and started screaming he was right about everything?
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>>108364970
And my point is that Venice didn't really have many impressive examples of warfare on their own, relying on allies to do their heavy lifting, and then stabbing them in the back when they were through with them, smoothing problems out later with money.

The most likely result of a Westerosi invasion of Braavos would be the ballista and wildfire-armed ships of Westeros just blowing up the navy of Braavos from so far away that their archers can't do anything.

But we can agree to disagree.
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>>108363405
How are any of those points not political? How is the murder of the Queen and your liege lord before a grasp at power not political?
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>>108365103
Dude no one gives a shit about your claims, they're fine, the only thing we're here for is to watch you sperg out endlessly. You're great entertainment.
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>>108363627
>the Dothraki, the later of which are infamous as rapists and murderers to the people the invade.
But they're freely lead by a blonde white woman, they've seen the light and are all nice and friendly now, they wouldn't do that! Feminism has cured them of their old ways.
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>>108365052
already successfully responded to the first, the second is irrelevant because it merely exists to prove that a public insurrection is not a guaranteed rebellion at all. These are not valid retorts to my arguments AT ALL
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>>108363296
Catherine the Great was not in the line of succession, she carried out a coup. It wasn't that hard to justify considering that before the Pauline Laws, emperorship of Russia wasn't hereditary but appointive.
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>>108365103
you have defended these arguments poorly and with a horrid example; cercei has a very good chance of being overthrown at that point is the most anyone has claimed in this thread.
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>>108365216
It's true. I don't even remember what he was originally arguing.
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>>108365213
Your argument is that Tarly is honor-bound to defend Olenna because muh honor and loyalty. My point is that Tarly doesn't give a damn about that because he refuses to follow a dragon queen and a bunch of eunuchs and barbarians
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>>108365216
this is just your pathetic attempt to validate your existence after being wrong. fuck off
>>108365287
you're an idiot that was wrong and you're making fun of me to try to sooth your defeated ego. you're the millionth person on 4chan to do that
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>>108365344
based socrates
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>>108365277
>very good chance
therefore it is not a plothole if she isn't overthrown because there are just as many examples in history of a ruler like her taking power regardless of the people.
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>>108365344
Can you reply to me too, senpai?
I really think that your arguments are not that great and I'm a big fan of Socrates!
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>>108365344
Anon, since you're obviously new here, let me give you some advice. Instead of using capslock, express your smugness with an image. Since we're on an imageboard.
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>>108365191
Money talks. Which is the purpose of Braavos in the setting as a direct rip off of Venice, with the entire Kingdom of Westeros heavily in debt to a single city.

The reason why no power got close to Venice despite all their best efforts for so long was a combination of soft power and just flexing their financial muscle. Venice did have the finest fleet in europe for centuries, the only real national fleet of any relevance for a long time, but they didn't have a standing land army because they didn't need one - they would always pay for any protection they needed.

It'd be the exact same in GRRMland. Braavos is richer than Westeros and would pay for a superior fighting force, while using its soft power and financial might to cause the Westerosi alliance to break up as they squabbled over who would lead the naval expedition.

Realistically, the only threat to Braavos would be some fantasy-tier shit with dragons, or a turkic-analogue empire of comparable size swallowing up the entire continent.
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>>108365426
let me give you some advice from a guy that's been here since 2007: calling me a sperg doesn't make you any less wrong. None of you are actually laughing, you're not having fun. You're tense, you're angry, you're desperate for validation from others, you're virtue signaling to the other posters, you're doing everything you can to validate your pointless and flawed presence in this thread



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