Previously >>>>67736809 (Cross-thread) (Cross-thread)>Thread FAQ(quite old)http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed) (embed)>Official HH 7th Edition Erratahttps://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/>30k TACTICA & TIPSWhat to include in a HH list, how to format it, what makes each legion special (crunch), tactics, Tutorials for Heresy-era minis and morehttp://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp (embed) (embed)>HH rulebook(pdf) if down, use a proxyhttp://www34.zippyshare.com/v/3a2haZF4/file.html>MEGA (missing several redbooks, but its something)https://mega.nz/#F!SJ8VFJxC!V2rD0wWIO4ye10AZ9PDzMg!3V0wyDJD>Malevolence(pdf) if down, use a proxyhttps://www105.zippyshare.com/v/7dnYrvdk/file.html>Crusade Imperialis Redbookhttps://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2Ffz1OuHK%2Fcrusade-imperialis-army-lists.pdf.html>Astartes Army List Redbookhttps://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.docdroid.net%2FZTK72gs%2Flegiones-astartes-age-of-darkness-army-list.pdf.html>===/atg/ copypasta===>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttp://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Blessed Scanonhttp://sys.4chan.org/derefer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediafire.com%2Ffile%2Fjidfcqy3bihaizl%2FTitanicus.zip%2Ffile>AT: Titandeathhttp://www.mediafire.com/file/iq88b5zmi5ime3i/Titandeath.zip/file>AT: Molochhttps://www86.zippyshare.com/v/ZgjmAXdX/file.html>Tacticshttps://1d4chan.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>>67762878first for Terminators with Guns are cooler than Terminators without Guns
IN for bIg GaINsssss
Would mid-to-late Heresy SoH be appropriate with horns here and there?IMO it gives the devillish aspect the traitors revealed to the Imperium by allying themselves with Chaos.
Is there anyone these days who makes art in the old style like OPs pic?
>>67763447I assume they would, yeah
>>67763447I'd say yes that's fine. Pic related is a late heresy AL.After the Isstvan drop the traitors dabbled more and more with chaos, so blessings from the gods would not be uncommon. Some SoH even got possessed around the attack of Molech.>>67763572Not really, but at least we will always have the Visions of Heresy book, it's a goldmine for heresy art.
>>67763708Fluffwise I meant the legionaries themselves adorning their armour more than it being affected by the warp as it's grip wasn't as strong as in the Eye later on.
>>67764352some were already pretty deep into the whole lodge business and wore the chaos symbolism pretty openly even pre istvan.
>>67763125>mom I made this for you
>>67762978did you do some fuckery with his waist? he looks oddly elongated.
>>67753470Yes, because despite your efforts to try and move your goalposts, your original post was whining and crying about models sans firearms in warhammer. >>67753477Words wasted on that fucking pinhead.>rulesDon't make appeal to abstract "rules". It's not about rules, it's about PURPOSE. This is why shit-for-brains keeps avoiding the simple question in >>67748534, because if he did he'd have to admit to error and learn something.>inner kid No, shooting yourself in the foot. Don't make moron sound mature for being autistic.
>>67766837Wow you really had to continue that in this thread? No wonder the last one died with only 150 replies.
>>67763447>>67763708Wip of my EC later heresy going for a more corrupted look, it depends on legion and time, in path to heaven Mortarion mentions he kept his legion from adjusting themselves much, the SoH had added spikes and demonic writing, ec had started to make changes (though the book says just the odd lenses or details but this contradicts a little on other ones saying they were bonkers by istvaan 5 and angel exterminatus, but it might just have been Eidolon keeping his ones in check while other splinters went full chaos within a week.) But most of these were personal augments, you might get odd early mutation especially by siege of terra in some legions.Also any tips on Landspeeders, should I go javelin or vanilla, and how many/what gear would be good.
>>67766954you really didn't let that extra bits sprue go to waste
>>67766954What job do you want the Speeders for? Anti tank or anti infantry?
>>67766942Wow, you really had to wipe a shit up? No wonder everyone left the room where it happened.
>>67766837>whining and cryinghow is calling something laughable whining?Jesus just stop posting you autistic retard, noone takes you strawman shit serious
>>67767285Hes a moritat, needs everything>>67767398anti tank I think
>>67763447I would give characters of note small mutations. A small horn or spike. Their first gifts of Chaos.
>>67767579You can polish a turd but it's still a turd, and you can call whining that X exists "laughing at it" but it's still whining. Look up how to use the words autistic and retard imbecile, you make yourself look stupid.
>>67767645Chaos, the gift that keeps on giving. Loyalists BTFO.
>>67767612iirc the jav mounts better at stuff + uses it a bit more effectively, whereas the standard defaults to antipersonnel and is softer.Plus, y'know, jav is HH only.>>67767695>>67767579this is like Russ and Lionel, only without the unresolved sexual tension, and they're being portrayed by snotlings.
>>67767727the theological version of AIDS is not something that BTFOs anyone Lorgar.
>>67767817How's Calth doing btw?
>>67767784>>67766954The standard version can get a Plasma cannon, which is better against infantry than anything the Javelin has, or a Grav-gun which is better against AV 14-15 than anything the Jevelin has.Javelin is excellent against medium stuff with twin-linked BS Missile Launchers. I'd take hunter-killer missiles over the Lascannon upgrade. If you're planning to shoot anything where a single lascannon shot is really worth more than 2-4 krak missiles then you should probably grab the gravgun instead.
>>67767784Remind me why we tolerate this namefag?
Reposting my No Allies No Fancy Stuff final destination Ordo list since we have a new thread. Uses that one FOC that lets me steal a Legion tank at the cost of like half my unit selection.3k Istvaan 3 Survivors ForceCalleb Decima, cyberfamilliar (190)Archmagos Reductor, Machinator, Phosphex Bomb, Cyberfamilliar, Djin-Skein w/ 3 Occularis, rad grenades, augury scanner (295) Warlord, if I needed to say.3 Thallax, photon thruster, Destructor (175)3 Thallax, photon thruster, Destructor (175)3 Thallax, photon thruster, Destructor (175)Calleb's Macro DT, Explorator Web, lascannon, sponson irrads, flare, ceramite (335)3 plasmafusil secutors (240)Techpriest Auxilia, 2 adepts 4 servitors, Enginseers, 2 servo arms (95)Avenger Strike Fighter, battle servitor control, 2x Krakens (190)Avenger Strike Fighter, battle servitor control, 2x Krakens (190)2 Medusas, Siege Plating, Machine Spirit, TL Bolter (320)2 Medusas, Siege Plating, Machine Spirit, TL Bolter (320)Sicarian Arcus Strike Tank, skyspear and pyrax warheads, armoured ceramite, lascannon sponsons (300)Total 3k exactly.Arch joins the enginseers and buffs/fixes unless he needs to phosphex some poor bastard that got too close, Decima and the Secutors hop in the macrocarid, Scout up with stealth and go melt stuff/scream a Spartan to death. Explorator web gives Deepstriking Thallax and the planes reserve rerolls.What do you think? Too much cancer, not enough cancer, can I kill AV14 reasonably well, are there any autotake Avenger upgrades I've missed since I basically never run planes?
>>67767886I am not angry, Brother.I am disappointed.DISAPPOINTED YOU ARE SO MUCH OF A FUCKUP YOU DECIMATE HALF YOUR LEGION DESPITE HAVING EVERY ADVANTAGE YOU STRATEGICAL EQUIVALENT OF A VEGETABLE
>>67767886one of the pre-eminent shipbuilding planets in the imperium, which is more than can be said of colchis and monarchia
>>67769335I love this artist>"Lorgar, are we the baddies?"
>>67769396Monarchia isn't even a planet you dingus.>>67769401Who's the artist, link?
>>67768615Makes it easier to filter the shit.
>>67769627Adriand Prado on Artstation
>>67762878“gowarhead” on snapstagram converted up a squad based on that pic
>>67763708You cannot convince me that is a word bearer in disguise
>>67766837you have yet to make a single argument as to why omitting a firearm is not silly when the vast majority of melee focused units bring ranged firepower in one way or another
>>67771940It isn't, btw book 8 talked a little bit about Alpha Legion daemon possession, apparently they even infiltrated Argel Tals boys when they became the first possessed.
>>67772143> daemons think this is fucking hilarious, don't tell anyoneThis better be why no one found out.
>>67772092Dual lightning claws,th+ss in catapharactii & maybe power fist + lc Sgt but other than that there isn't many reason to do it. Or maybe zone mortalis melee only it could work
Can Destroyers/Ashen Circle have apothecaries since they aren't technically IC and instead considered an additional squad member?
So who does siege better, Reductor or the bitter IVth? On one hand, Ironfire is some good shit, but on the other hand, 0-12 cheap medusas with Interceptor, POTMS and free super dozer blades, plus covercutting.
>>67773020possibly, but it's a shitty interpretationany Legion that cared that much about Destroyers wouldn't be fielding them
>>67772358They did get found out.
>>67774397Counterpoint, due to their positions handling hazardous and toxic weapons the Destroyer Cadre was likely to have Apothecaries dedicated specifically to them.
>>67773020My understanding is that RAW actually anyone can join a Destroyer Squad, just Moritats can’t join anything else.
>>67775161Pardon the phone post.
I need help you fags. How good are Assault Marines for Word Bearers? I was thinking of grabbing the Big Set of 20 off the Forge World Webstore but I'd like to know if they're worth it. The other options include buying 4 boxes of plastic Mark III Marines and the Plasma Special Weapons. Or grabbing a Spartan and a group of Gal Vorbak.What do you think anons? I'm honestly just trying to build up to 2000pts in a relatively short amount of time and so far I only have a Squad of Mark III assembled.That and I'm conflicted on if I want to just buy Solar Auxilia.
Which Primarch is the most shit tier?
>>67777885Your Space Dad.Closely followed by the current rules for the Lion.
>>67778038Lorgar Transfigured is fucking amazing man.
>>67777885Depends on the metric you're using, but overall I'd say Magnus, closely followed by Russ. Fuck them both.
>>67775669bikes are imo better than assault marines
>>67775669Ashen Circle are fantastic post FAQ. You can argue that Assault Marines have been made redundant, or you can argue that Angels Wrath is now a top-tier Rite.By their own merits, Assault Marines are a melee-focused big unit eligible for Dark Channelling, which puts them in a great spot.
Does the AT Imperial Knight box come with extra weapon bits? Want to know if I need to magnetize them too.
>>67780781magnus having a bloo bloo moment because he broke E-Money's psychic fence is in no way as bad as Russ's sustained fucking up.Tiers.> Irredeemable FuckupsLorgar, Curze, Angron, Russ.> Crippling AutismPerturabo, Mortarion, the Lion, Alphagon, Dorn, Jaghatai, Magnus> muh feefeesSanguinus, Ferrus, Corax, Vulkan> Tactical Genius HurrRoboute, Horus, FulgrimOf course then Chaos melts their brains so it messes it all up.
>>67782561I maintain that Corax did nothing wrong and is overlooked. > Raptors were an objective improvement over Marines> Raptors fuckup is now AL bullshit and absolutely not his fault> Beat Guilliman at Warhammer (Literally the only Primarch to do so) > Had aspirations of writing the Imperium Constitution after the Crusade had finished> The only Primarch to see Horus for what he was
>>67770198>Vulkan is a nigger instead of pitch black with glowing red eyeseh, pass
>>67777885Alpharius>achieve nothing as loyalist>believes an Eldar and his Xenos friends when they say humanity must die to defeat chaos>switch sides, achieve nothing as traitor>get beaten at your own game by Dorn>get cut down like a little bitch>effectively killed his legion with his doctrines post-mortem.
>>67782634you forgot>always holds his word>brutal motherfucker when he needs to be
>>67782634>>67782765he's by far the best loyalist Daemon Prince, anyone who amuses themself by following Lorgar around and spooking him is cool imo, but he's not quite that top tier.
>>67782634If only he got a better writer....If Chris Wraight could swoop in and save the XIXth the way he saved the Vth...Instead they got Gav and a death sentence. Not even getting like 3 whole fucking books saved them because Gav wrote each one. Ouch
>>67782305The Questoris comes with 3 chain swords and one of each, melta cannon, battle cannon and gatling. Just check the description on the store
>>67782818>three whole booksI only count two, unless you include Haley's Primarchs novella? Which was admittedly pretty shit.
>>67774704anybody who's asshole enough to use destroyer weapons doesn't give a shit about the troops that handle them
>>67783142I thought it was one of the better primarch novels and did a good job showcasing the double-edged sword of Corax's views. He's idealistic and believes in building a future beyond the Great Crusade, but lacks focus on the details. I loved his former freedom fighter tearing into him at the end for leaving Deliverance in the hands of the same tech-guilds they worked to overthrow.
>>67763447The EC were very notable for being horny.
Damn, these new small titan models are getting me all excited about the 40k (formerly 30k) universe again after many many years, currently re-reading Titanicus and my fingers are really itching to paint and customize.
>>67783894Fuck, I did not realized how big that thing was. No wonders that even for China man it is an expensive piece.
>>67768615Who is tolerating him? Just ignore and filter him. It isn’t like he is contributing anything useful.
>>67773020Anyone can join destroyers
>>67774188>Siege warfare is just artilleryIf you are dumb maybe they are the best, in reality it is SA who can field so many high AV vehicles with big guns that actually stopping them from rolling over your army is much more difficult.
>>67783894...is that Kari Byron from Mythbusters?
Chaplain done. I'm very satisfied with how he turned out but for some reason it felt almost impssible to take a picture where the model would look good...
>>67784307not only why, but how? they do completely different things, bikes are fast-moving accurate shooting, assault squads are middling melee units that sit in an other FOC slot entirely, it's like saying devastators are better than tacticals or something.
>>67784859That looks pretty good anon, well done. Let me ask, how did you do that nice base?
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/12/coming-soon-strike-fast-strike-hardfw-homepage-post-1/>still no white scars transfer sheetJust fucking kill me bros.
>>67782634>“Sic semper tyrannis! Liberty or death! Vive le resistance!”>“Oh hi spacedad, of course I’ll command a legion of brainwashed child supersoldiers to conquer in the name of your ruthless slavetaking dictatorial empire. I love you spacedad.”It’s briefly touched upon in his Primarch novel but I’d like a story exploring Corax’s Mortarion-tier hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.
>>67785203Knight heads > transfers.
>>67784859> Chaplain goes from grey plastic to fully-painted in the span of one thread.Fuck my life, and I'm here working on the same squads for an army I started three years ago.
>>67785049it's just cork and some other basing materials
>>67785442That article has nothing to do with Primaris you dumb nigger
>>67777885Alpharius easily. Does nothing, and anything he does do is so convoluted that it is of no consequence
>>67785575>freeeeeedumbb!There's really no hypocrisy.
Here's my 1000pt Word Bearers List:HQLegion Praetor+Iron Halo+Paragon Blade+Plasma Pistol. 180ptsLegion Chaplain+Artificer Armor+Plasma Pistol+Refractor Field.120ptsTroops2x Tactical Squads. Sergeant+Artificer Armor+Plasma Pistol+Powerfist. 165pts Each.Legion Support Squad.+5 Plasma Guns.175pts.Elites.Gal Vorbak Dark Bretheren.200pts990pts Total.R8 and h8. But what should I add or take out?
Is Malevolence in the MEGA yet?
>>67785575Corax realized that true freedom is to be freed from the burden of choice.He got Legalism pilled by Daddy EmprahAll you have to do in a perfect society is to function.
>>67785863how do you plan to deal with vehicles?
>>67785863Those numbers add up to 1005 not 990
>>67784859>chaplain>no black armor>no skull helmetyou could have at least tried
>>67786567>techmarine>armour isn’t red
>>67784859You gotta pump those chaplain numbers
>>67786664you'd expect them to wear the colours of the forge world they adhere to.
>>67786664>armor is actually red despite the allegiance to terra
>>67786511The Praetor should be 165pts instead of 180. He originally had digital weapons but I decided to save some points and get rid of them.
>>67786687Legion tech marines were trained on Mars even back in 30k.
>>67786870generally true, but especially during the Heresy you'd expect fresh Techmarines to be trained where it was possible.
>>67786687>Imagine if mars allowed foreign forge world to train techmarinesLmao what next, each legion is allowed to train their own chaplain ?
>>67787017>foreign forge worldall forge worlds are subservient to Mars, but shipping every Techmarine back to Mars while on campaign seems impractical.
>>67786759A Praetor at 1k is just a waste of points. Anything less than 1500 should be ZM and with those FOCs
>>67787205I could run a Diabolist instead.>>67786455The Support Squad was my first choice. But I could bring a Vindicator instead of the Support Squad. Or take out the Gal Vorbak for the Vindicator. But if I take out the Gal Vorbak what should I add instead? More Tactical Marines or throw some Dark Channeling on my squads?
>>67787376That's not much better of a character desu. I mean, its 1k, so it doesn't matter when you have half the list as tacticals. The game is designed for at least 2k
>>67787376Drop the praetor for a Demolisher.
>>67784859>I AM THE EMPEROR'S WILL MADE MANIFEST
>>67787503>>67787916Okay so the Diabolist will be a regular Centurion then I'm going to take a Dozer Blade on the Vindicator and bring in a Contemptor Cortus with two Dreadnought CCW. This leaves me at 975pts and I think it's a decent starting point for a 2k army as well.
>>67788149As a side note I really recommend this model (I got it from ebay at a relatively ok price, of course theres recasts etc.). It's very easy to convert the arms and I can see it being a great base for a WB Praetor for example. Could be also made into a herald quite easily I think. Or a primus nullificator...
>>67788462Good start anon. Good to have more Turd Bearers players
>>67788462Sounds like a plan.
>>67786567>>67786664>>67786687The whole red=Techmarines, blue=Librarian, black=Chaplain thing was not standardized across the legions. That was something the codex astartes implemented. Prior to that, some legions followed this color system but plenty of others had their own versions.
When’s the next Siege of Terra book coming out? Solar war was pretty enjoyable
>>67788572Wheres the power fist and staff from?
>>67790374Presumably Ultras did use that scheme though.
>>67791768I wouldn't take it as law if they did.
>>67791175The next book has already been scanned.
Hi guys, looking for critique on my list please. 1000pts, standard.> Legion: Irrelevant> Rite of War: Armoured BreakthroughPredator Company Commander- Master of Armour, Hunter-Killer Missile, Multi-Melta- 90ptsPredator- Predator Cannon, Heavy Bolters- 95ptsPredator- Predator Cannon, Heavy Bolters- 95ptsFire Raptor- Reaper Autocannons, Hellstrike Missiles- 240ptsFire Raptor- Reaper Autocannons, Hellstrike Missiles- 240ptsFire Raptor- Reaper Autocannons, Hellstrike Missiles- 240pts
>>67792222If your Legion is not relevant then it is cheese by default and you should go sit in the 40k thread for 30mins while wearing donkey ears as punishment.
>>67792222The game isn't designed for below 2k. Less than 1500 is ZM and between those two play strategic raid or cities of death.
>pretty much an entire book on Lorgars fall to chaos>2 dedicated to Horus, who was stabbed, poisioned, put into a vision where he was manipulated by Erebus and shown visions of the past>fulgrim finds a fucking sword and a demon somehow manages to just mindbreak a fucking primarchHonestly pretty disappointed
>>67792222You really don't want to play this game, do you?
>>67792849Don't forget the part where a regular human can see right through erebus's lies when fucking horus can't
Bump for the XVIII
>>67792849I mean Abnett certainly seeded a lot of interesting ideas for a compelling and believable fall to Chaos, Mcneill just squandered literally all of it.Perhaps he turned to Fulgrim because he was unsatisfied with ruining only a single primarch's fall with a magic sword.
>>67788149>MOM LOOK I MADE THIS FOR YOU
>>67792849Well that's kind of unfair, if you've read the book you see how the sword slowly drives primarch gayboi and his legion insane.
>>67794877McNeil is a hack.
>>677922221000 points 3 fire Raptors lul
This single female lawyer objects
>>67775161Oh I guess I'm retarded; I looked at the Ashen Circle and assumed that destroyers had a similar rule.In that case, since Ashen Circle *can* take apothecaries, what happens to the Apothecary if I roll a 5 or 6 (thanks to Zardu) on Dark Channeling and they gain Daemon?
>>67795755>*teleports behind you*>*spills beer on the console*>"Psh, nothing personal, kid.
>>67791671from the Minotaurs chaplain
>>67796227Let's be honest I was never gonna finish rdr2. Back to ncaa.
Can someone explain if original Scananon did Malevolence scan or not? I know about ScanBro's scan, but I ask for another
>>67792222If I'd agreed to play a 1000 point game against you and you pulled out that list, I'd probably just pack up. Wasted quads.
Planning on starting with a Primarch purchase but god the faces are bad, is it possible to just clip off the head and replace it with a regular sized marine helm ( any lore appropriate mark will do) or would it look too derpy?
>>67785863You need to be over 1k pts to be able to take a character with Master otf the Legion. So no Praetor for you yet.
>>67799011There is some assembly required.. I don't think any head on any of the primarchs is attached to the body.
>>67799096I assumed some of them came premolded with the heads on but that's good to know that it doesn't require significant cleanup.
Does forgeworld no longer sell torsos unique to each legion? I keep seeing legion iconography on their product previews but not sure if it's just custom work or not.
>>67799357It's been long enough that I don't remember when they stopped selling those.
>>67799096What are some other good helmeted heads for Primarchs? Does anyone have some good pics for head scale comparisons between Marines and Primarchs?
>>67799403Damn, guess I'll scour ebay
>>67799357It's been over a year since they stopped selling Legion torsos, and I am still incredibly butthurt over it.
>>67782561>Fulgrim>any kind of geniusDude couldn't tell something was wrong when a sword started telling him to murder his family
>>67799418China man is your friend, keep that in mind.
>>67795541His legion went nuts due to fabius' fuckery, fulgrim was just a retard who couldn't tell when something wasn't his own thoughts
>>67799564Read the book again, most of the top brass went crazy because they went with Fulgrim into the Laer Slaneeshi temple
What do primarchs eat to keep natty?
>>67799415Custodes biker helmet fits on fulgrim, put one on mine. Seen someone put wings on the side of it which also works.
>>67762878can someone tell me where in the spacewolves codex i can find what paints i need for them please. not sure if im a briainlet but i cant find shit
>>67800452I am surprised how well that looks. Understand that faces gives character to the minis, however always thought that is just cooler for them all to have helmets.
>>67800452>>67800944huge improvement, especially on Fulgrim which is a middling model dragged down by the worst head of any of the primarch sculpts.I would really like to see a redesign of nearly all of them, but helmets are a start at least.
>>67799415There is that Perturabo conversion with head taken from DG contemptor dreadnought.
Corax considers himself in the upper-half of Primarchs when it comes to personal combat. Assuming he thinks he can take at least 9 of them on, who is he referring to?100% confirmed> VIII CurzeOutright states that he never considered Curze to be an equal and reckons if he had stayed on Isstvan, he could have killed both him and Lorgar.> XIII GuillimanLiterally decapitates him in a VR Tekken simulator> XVII LorgarQueen bitch, slapped him down twiceNot explicitly shown but very likely> XIV MortarionSeems a bit of a bitch, shown to struggle against fast opponents (Khan)> XX AlphariusJust not very good at duelsStill leaves 4.Perturabo never struck me as a particularly good duellist, and Magnus is purely down to how psychic he's allowed to get.Dorn doesn't strike me as any more dangerous than Guilliman, Ferrus died against a slow target, and Vulkan was killed by a fork so he can't be all that.Angron, Sanguinius and Horus are all going to beat him. Russ probably has it as well, as do Lion and Fulgrim.Khan I can see as being a really close match.
>>67804252>Ferrus died to a slow targetFulgrim has the highest initiative of the primarchs tied with Khan
>>67804252Do we know how strong Lorgar transfigured is? He's obviously a punk before getting juiced up, but how does he compare lore-wise (not TT)
>>67804428>Do we know how strong Lorgar transfigured is?strong enough to continue running like a bitch from corax
>>67804252Why is it interesting to make a list of this? It's the same pointless exercise as comparing characters by how many Avatars and/or Greater Daemons they've killed.
>>67804428He kills Ang'grath and is shown a vision of him killing Guilliman at Calth, but also how the traitors would lose if he actually followed it through.We are also shown him getting beaten up by Guilliman, beaten post-Heresy by a very angry Corax, and I think there is something about a failed coup against Horus?It's never clarified if the visions are just Chaos trying to recruit him and appealing to his inferiority, or an actual reliable account of his new talents.
>>67804464Please don't remind me about Corvax the Edgehawk chases the Daemon Prince of Undivided around.GW really shit the bed with their writing, especially the primarchs; almost all of them are low functioning autists and their motivations are poorly defined. Their power levels don't make much sense and weaker primarchs never have their moment against another where they're "in their element" they just exist as punching bags.
>>67804667Corax chasing Lorgar around like the little bitch he is the best thing Lorgar's ever been involved in though, because it's what everyone who isn't a worst bearer wants to see.Lorgar is a physical and moral coward and the reason the whole galaxy is a dumpster fire, he doesn't suffer any real comeuppance for his betrayal of humanity, so having the little shit get bullied by Cawrax is as close as we can come to seeing him face justice.As for 'in his moment'? His moment is gloating about causing the deaths of billions at Calth, because he is literally the worst.Fuck Lorgar, long may he be spooked by the Raven.
>>67805850Yeah but that's just the thing; it's fanwank. I don't like Lorgar even though I play WB, I just would rather good writing than "bad guy got his comeuppance", especially since this is W40k
when are we getting the One, True Terminator Pattern already?
>>67805929It'll be in a box set along with plastic MKII, MKV and plastic assault marines for both MKII and MKV
>>67805929Do we really need separate rules for different patterns?We don't need them for Power Armour, and it stifles conversions or mixed squads.And nobody uses Tartaros anyway.
>>67806236It helps add variety to the game for different tactics, and desu maybe there should be different rules for power armor.Tartaros should have a +1 bonus for sweeping advances, vanilla should get teleport homer
>>67806231haha you're a funny anon
>>67805910>>67805850The heresy is a torrent of bad guys getting away with it inexplicably because they're still alive in 40k and Lorgar is easily the worst offender. Much more of them should die but that's what happens when you have daddy issue loses like ADB writing chaos wank. I'm sure if I posted this to reddit he'd come shit post back. In Betrayer Lorgar gets hit by a titan plasma cannon *twice* and lives. Then Ron saves him with literal plot armour. It's ridiculous and generates 0 tension. The chaos players have absolutely no stakes, just constant wins and civilian murder. The best part of that book is when Bobby Gorilla RIPS AND TEARS through the W-gang so hard he finds Lorgar and beats the crap out of him until retard Ron shows up to ruin the fun.
>>67804252I think khan is an interesting one for trying to gauge, hes upper half clearly but its hard to tell how much is him boasting. I always took his boast to fuglrim being along the lines of "ill win because you dont know me and would underestimate" rather than pure outskill (which is sort of how the fight plays out on tabletop with it being a tie unless fulgrim plays serious and uses child of terra).
>>67806381If you hate the story so much, why are preaching it like it's the bible?
>>67806381this is what bugs me aswell, basically everyone of note on the chaos side survived, all the Primarchs(minus Horus) and all their Leutenants also still kick around in 40k.The whole "chaos fights so much among itself" doesn't really resonate when the vast majority of dudes has been in charge for 10k years
>>67805929the centurion is gw's modern reinterpretation of the idea, sad but true.>>67805910well to return to your power levels point, Lorgar was always explicitly the weakest of the lot, yes he gets on the chaos roids but his character remains the same, hell the closest he comes is in KNF where his shadow has a crack at Rowboat, warp ooga booga is hîs element and it gets him as close as he ever comes to beating one of his brothers.I'd argue he's consistent both in powerlevel and characterisation throughout the heresy, the whole point of Lorgar is lacking the bravery to stand on his own, whether in a physical or spiritual sense.Hell, if anything, anyone involved in UE's plotline has more room to complain because Curze, the literal murder hobo, manages to win a bunch of 1v1/2/3 fights in it.To move away from the inconstancy of BL and back to in universe for a moment, powerlevel is difficult to gauge without consideration of actual fights.We know the following:Corax beats Lorgar.Fulgrim beats Ferrus.Dorn beats Alpharius.Curze beats Gulliman, draws with the Lion. He also faces Vulkan and Sang but I don't know how those went.Russ beats Magnus, loses to Ron and Horus.What other 1v1s are covered in BL?
>>67806521Corax beat Gorilla in a simulation iirc, and Lorgar(transfigured) got beaten Horus(chaos juiced)
>>67806430I think the thing with the Khan is that his advantage is knowing what the other's skill level is. Like even if he was weaker, he has an advantage due to foreknowledge. First strike wins.
>>67806381Lorgar surviving two shots from a Plasma Blastgun sets a pretty bad precedent on Primarch survivability.
>>67804252Unpopular opinion: The Primarchs are all roughly on par with each other and in most cases their opinions on how good they are is just their enormous egos talking.
Any of you guys play AT? Would love to see some of your minis. Thinking really hard whether to make my own Legion or go with an established one.
>>67807214When I was young, I used to hate old warhammer art, but now I find it so full of character and charm. Is this what growing old feels like?
>>67807214Legio Vulpa reporting
Lawd these conversionworld bits are crisp.
>>67807351Yea, I have the same feelings these days, I still think Adrian Smith and John Blanche are the best 40k artists but the really old stuff has tons of charm.
>>67807591One would forget it's resin. Not a single piece of flash or a bubble.
>>67806846Nah that's likely accurate, Most could likely beat each other if they play to their strength, Pert could beat sanguinius if he can force sanguinius into a siege based battle. 1 on 1 fights really are not the best way to judge the value of a primarch. Angron might beat Khan in a 1v1 but Khan's hit and runs would likely see him win in a drawn out war. Guillaman himself likely wouldn't beat Horus in a fight but there is a reason he didnt want his legion showing up on terra as his logistical prowess would make it tough for Horus to win.
>>67807604It's a stark contrast of 7th and 8th ed. blandness. Especially the latter edition.
>>67807604God I love that artwork. Big glorious armies & battles are always what I've loved about the various warham games, not heroes duelling it out.
>>67807214I've been meaning to get my actual titans done for a while now, but so far I've completed these Cerastus Knights.
>>67806502Some of that can be blamed on their desire to stick with canon, which I totally understand. Their hands were tied. But outside of the primarchs, there’s a lot of confirmation bias. There are plenty of characters in the BL series who we never hear about in M41 - we just aren’t paying as much attention to them because we’re fixated on the ones who do. Malhoghurst, Yesugei, Shiban, Dantioch, Ventanus, Horus Aximand, Argel Tal - they’re new to the canon (at least I don’t think they predated the novel series) and their stories have ended or will end here. Lucius and Bjorn are big names in 40k who started the Heresy as relatively insignificant legionnaires. I would’ve liked to see more of that. It’s fair to argue that too many 40k characters were already company captains at the start of the Heresy. (I like what they did with Kharn - I wouldn’t change his story.)
>>67807591>>67807622But holy fuck, have you never seen someone gold a shield before?
>>67806521Curze got Bane'd by the Lion in Angels of Caliban though
>>67809843yeah but he fights him to a draw in a bunch of other encounters.Weirdly, Curze probably does the most primarch fighting of all and is pretty successful at it, not usually what you associate with the boss of the cowardly murderer legion, but it's how the fluff plays out.
>>67806846Based opinion anon
Just finished up these guys.
Just waiting on some Forge World shoulder pads and my first squad of Mark III Marines will be complete,well besides the paint job. What are you anons up to/building?
>>67813164I appreciate a fellow Word Bearers player anon. Also those look good as shit.
>>67813622Glad you like them. I don't play Word Bearers though, I'm an Alpha Legion and World Eaters guy. I was just painting them up for a friend. >>67813574Currently working on an Imperial Fists dread. It's not turning out too well imo, but I'm using it as a test mule for airbrushing.
>>67810204Russ admits at one point he wouldn't want to have to fight Curze because he fights with the strength of the insane.
>>67814723>Tard strength makes Curze a top-tier primarch in combat
>>67806465>I remember what I read >preaching it Anon you must have quite a serious head wound. I would get it looked at. I'm not proselytizing I'm point out why something is shit using examples. I personally want to consider all the heresy books non Canon. >>67806646Especially as Horus' armour got pierced from falling on a spike in Davin. Or how the primarchs routinely just batter each other with their hands and do as much damage as a titan plasma cannon. >>67809439They don't care that much about Canon, the heresy has changed so much from the simple original tale. Everyone is stupider. Everything is more convoluted. What they can't do is kill off characters confirmed in 40k, which is the entire named chaos roster bar Huron. I mean they killed Alpharius! at least ostensibly, if they want to bring him back they can easily
>>67806381ADB wanted to kill Lorgar but GW wouldn't let him. ADB invented Argel Tal instead of making a pre-established character like Erebus or Kor Phaeron his protagonist so hi could make the red team lose MORE people. Contrast someone like Mcneill, who wrote unkillable protagonists for the Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons, and Iron Warriors. And yet he almost never gets the lambasting he rightly deserves.If you're going to complain about ADB, do it without making shit up.
>>67806846Alpharius v Dorn basically confirmed that one.
>>67815246I'm not making anything up. Please show me where I did?What you disagree with is how I interpret what he wrote. What's the source on him wanting to kill Lorgar? Because I doubt it.It is very much pro chaos, or at least he dislikes the emperor. There's a part where Argel Tal says that the imperium is just as bad as the traitors. Which is laughably stupid. Argel and Khârn were the best part of that book though, most of the time. I'd shit on McNeil too but I probably haven't read those books. Which ones are they? I have read the first several then a few more random ones.
>>67815402https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgTq-dGv8-AAbout 9:00 is what you're looking for, but I thought the whole interview was worth.He's been on record more than a few times (and elsewhere in the vid above) that the traitors are deluded. Argel Tal isn't his mouth piece. I'm not sure how else you would write a Chaos Zealot besides "Daddy E is bad too!"Mcneill inserts Lucius in wherever he can, he's prominent in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus, and is inexplicably in The Crimson King. Ahriman is the protagonist of A Thousand Sons and The Crimson King. The Main Cast of Angel Exterminatus is almost entirely the cast of Storm of Iron, making them invincible.If you're going to bother reading Mcneill, A Thousand Sons is the only one of those that's any good. Fair cop that Mcneill being shit doesn't necessarily elevate ADB.ADB's chaos wank is a meme usually spat out by people who haven't read his books. People often mistake their Imperial Bias for an unbiased perspective, so when he writes Chaos as capable of holding a boltgun the correct way round, they get salty. Take the Night Lords Trilogy as an example. People like to meme about how OP the protagonists are, when Talos and co's actions ultimately lead to the following:Soul Hunter: First Claw is a detriment to Chaos by telling Abaddon to go fuck himselfBlood Reaver: First Claw is a detriment to Chaos by getting their flagship blown up and attacking Huron's resourcesVoid Stalker: Talos gets his entire crew killed because he doesn't know what restraint is
>>67815523Ahhh yeah Lucius fucking sucks. Tricking that guy into betraying the loyalists was totally retarded and I couldn't believe how obvious it was. I will counter your point by saying he does have some moments, again in Betrayer Lorgar literally *teleports behind u*>pssh nuffin personnel ultramarine space defences With not one or two but THREE ships all the same size as the phalanx that he apparently built in secret in 50 years and just teleported into the heart of Ultramar. So his suicide attack is then an easy win. These things literally appear out of thin air. It's pretty poor story telling and feels like an asspull.Then they're all shitting themselves about landing on the planet and fighting the Ultras and their 1 billion human troops but literally wipe that planet out in a day. He claimed to trying and be writing impartially but I just don't really see it. I don't want to cheer on the bad guys as they're all pretty unlikable people. Even the captain of the conqueror, Sotarra.
>>67815611I'll admit he never should have even acknowledged Battle for the Abyss. The Furious Abyss being secretly built in the Sol system was bad enough.
>>67815611oh right, the battle for Armatura or what it was called, that huge Ultramarines Fortress World noone ever heard of before or after but was super important and only existed to Lorgar and Angron could beat Roboute somwhere that wasn't Calth.
>>67815611I mean, they went through the warp like the rest of the fleet, on a path already cleared by the World Eaters. Chaos forces navigating the Ruinstorm isn’t really anything new.He also didn’t tank 2 plasma cannon blasts. He managed to block one which depleted most of his energy ( so still far below Magnus based on what he did to that eldar titan) before being very nearly killed by the second. He was completely unable to defend himself from a follow-up.Protagonist factions pulling through against ludicrous odds is not unique to ADBs Chaos, nor to him as a writer. Grimaldus pulled through on his suicide mission against graham’s number of orks. The troops in Cadian blood survived what was repeatedly described as basically unwinnable. It’s the same as Gaunt’s Ghosts shitting on the odds because he writes Chaos as completely inept, or Wraight’s writing of the Khan as underestimated and therefor unbeatable.
>>67815649Even stupider, then they blow up the asteroid as if that is subtle in the Sol system... >>67815794Yeah pretty much, not surprised no one cares, it must have really sucked as a fortress. >>67815973They teleport from a completely different angle and it seems to imply that they haven't been travelling but just came from where ever. They are a total secret to everyone, except Lorgar. He took two, the fact he technically shielded one with his big brain is a bit of a get out; he still was shot twice and survived both. Especially as large scale psyker powers usually damage the person performing them. Regardless one should be enough. The thing about most of the ones you have mentioned is that they are humans and the under dogs. It's more satisfying to hear some out gunned regular person fought off crazed chaos worshipers, marines and demons than it is to hear about Lorgar and his legion of post humans purge an entire planet of innocent civilians because "fuck my dad >:(". Being likable is important.
>>67788572How large is it next to Primaris?
>>67815523>People often mistake their Imperial Bias for an unbiased perspective, so when he writes Chaos as capable of holding a boltgun the correct way round, they get salty. >HE NO BIASED U BIASEDSimply, dare I say it, epic
>>67816401No, no you don't understand, you have to have a high IQ to not be biased against the faction which want to exterminate all life! I for one welcome our new demonic neighbours!
Played my first game in 7 months. can you tell I love knights?
>>67815973the problem is that surviving not one but two Titan Weapons firing at him means he should be all but impervious to anything less than Titan Scale Weaponry
>>67816595also i forgot to mention my biggest gripe, that he survived it without a helmet on, I could see him surviving an indirect plasma blast while his psychic powers shield him from being cooked inside his armour, but not even wearing a helmet and surviving a direct plasma blastgun hit with little more than a sunburn is ridiculous
>>67816401I’m saying everything people accuse ADB of Chaos wank without ever criticizing other authors for Imperium Wank.I’m also not sure what Chaos being a gang of baby rapists has to do with anything. Are we talking about faction bias or who deserves our sympathy?
>>67816865Fuck I’m tired, that makes no sense.I’m saying people complain about Chaos = Imperium or Chaos > Imperium engagements, but no one seems to bat an eye at Imperium > Chaos engagements. There’s a double standard.
>>67816590They are rather cool.
>>67816905>>67816865Because over the past couple of years it has been beaten into our heads that "CHAOS' VICTORY IS INEVITABLE, YOU CAN ONLY DELAY IT" over and over again, across a dozen books.Just because Cato "Pederast" Sicarius assrapes some word bearer chump in a limited edition novella or whatever only emphasises this.
>>67815973>It’s the same as Gaunt’s Ghosts shitting on the odds because he writes Chaos as completely inept,Really only the case in the first arc, which is later explicitly said to be primarily fanatic cultists rather than disciplined forces.
>>67807407Get off my lawn
>>67807214I don't have any models yet but I already fluffed out a Titan Legion (Legio Malleo) and two Knight Houses(actually Knight Wings, 1. Wing "Gravo" and 2. Wing "Axios")The Colour Scheme of the Legio Malleo is a dark Orange and Burgundy, Gravo is Deep Sea Green, and Axios is blank Gunsteel
>>67763447No, I would stick to the Sons of Horus own motif - coins, skulls, topknots etc. Maybe the odd horn or warp-change or octed here or there, but these guys haven't experienced the Legion Wars yet living in a cauldron of warp energy and they should be relatively 'clean' with the occasional Aspiring Champion here and there who has go deeper into this new Chaos thing than his battle-brothers. The slide to darkness was different for each Legion, but I still dislike how BL have made mid-late Emperor's Children and World Eaters basically their M41 counterparts. The clusterfuck Reunion of Evil (muhahahahaha) at Ullanor completely missed the point of this IMO. I know ADB is largely disliked here, but you can see a big change between the Black Legion in Book 1 (basically shattered warbands of Heresy-era Marines) and in Book 2 (horns, talking pauldrons, faceplates melding to faces, EVEN MORE HORNS, tentacles, augemetics beginning to turn into living flesh etc.) and it's a nice shiftThat's my take, I know others disagree
>>67815523I'm a huge ADB fan (I have literally met the guy, got signed books and had my old forum posts featured on his blog) and I thought the Drach'nyen wank in Master of Mankind was disgusting
>>67815523>have WHFB Daemons and WoC>have 30k traitor DG w/ Ruinstorm Daemons>have 40k CSM w/ Daemons and R&H>own Liber Chaotica>my favorite 40k novels include Eye of Terror and Pawns of ChaosAm I allowed to hate ADB, senpai?
>>67817376Sounds good, I might go for a burgundy/blue, inspired by the livery of Richard III and modern Mongolian parade attire.
>>67818198with the Pig too?Anyone know if there is an actual "Imperial Robot" this thing is based on or if it is a Man of Iron only chassis? I like the clean and lean look and might use it for a Magos Battle Suit stand in.
>>67818224Not sure, might make the pig into a logo for one Princeps.
>>67804252I know he triggers /tg/ but all things being equal Russ>Horus in combat. This is canon.
Since i want to drop 40k for good, what is a good and cheap.way to start a HH army? I wanted to get some infantry-focused IF army, made entirely of would-be Black Templars
>>67818923just get three Mk.III boxes and you're good
>>67818958Are there different rules for different armor Marks?
>>67819004Not for power armour. Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminator armour have their own rules separate to regular Terminator armour.
>>67819046Can you effectively play black templars in 30k? Do they have some specific rules or limitations over the regular IF army?
>>67819004No, but MkIII is iconic for IF (ignore the fact Wardens are in MkIV).Anything is fine, to be honest. I'd almost advice for MkIV, if you want infantry, since the kits come with more weapons and 11 torsos, meaning you're 1 pair of spare legs (MkIV legs can be found in some GW kits) away from 11 full models vs. 10. Good for making characters, etc.
>>67818224There's either a manlet pilot or abominable intelligence inside.
>>67819062There are no additional rules/limitations for them, but you can have Sigismund,who is probably the best non-Primarch beatstick, and Templar Brethren are a pretty effective assault unit.
>>67819062If you take sigismund as your warlord he makes these dudes called templar brethren troops. Take lots on them, boom, psuedo black templars. Sigismund was the first BT chapter master following the heresy after all.Alternately, just taking some big squads of tactical marines with bolt pistols & chainswords would be pretty close to crusader squads, though I don't think there's anything that allows mixed squads (not least of which because scouts/neophytes aren't in the legion list). Assault marines are another option (in 30k that means a jump pack, if you're confused how that's different to the aforementioned melee tacticals) but IIRC black templars prefer to run across the field.
Can you find the legion ?
>>67815523>Mcneill inserts Lucius in wherever he can, he's prominent in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus, and is inexplicably in The Crimson King.I don't know why he keeps expanding Lucius' story across several stories even though he seemingly can't write a proper character arc for the guy, or even keep the themes clear and cohesive.
>>67819109robots need no pilots or intelligence, they run off artificial smoothbrain hardcodesLegio Cyberneticabut in my case it would be used as the Combat Body of a Magos.
>>67819446I assume salamanders, not just the scheme but the freehand on the pauldron looks like a decent effort at one of their markings.
>>67819062I am listenig to the Solar War currently and If I am not mistaken Sigismund is already leading something he calls the Black templars around the Battle for Terra
>>67819702You are absolutely right, although the flames on the left leg is a dead giveaway
>>67818660no it's not. he manages a brief moment of advantage which he then throws away because he's a self-pitying hypocrite, then gets his ass handed to him.Russ is shit, he fags on about how loyalty to E-Money is all important and how he's gonna get the traitors, but the moment the traitor is someone he didn't already hate, he deflates..> "woe is me that i have to kill my evil brother who is now responsible for the deaths of billions, abloo bloo bloo"contrasted with> "FUCKIN MAGNUS AND HIS NERRRRRRDS, BURN THE WHOLE CITY FULL OF CIVILIANS DOWN AND KILL ALL HIS GUYS, BOOKS MAKE RUSS ANGRY, GRARGH"The guy is a total asshole, an active detriment to his side because of it and fucking sucks at his supposed role to boot.If I had three bolt rounds, Russ, Perty and Morty in front of me I'd shoot fuckin Russ twice, one round for each braincell.
>>67819702>>67819928Wouldn't it be easier just to read the name on the color pot?
>>67807214If you can't decide on a color scheme then just take a look at all the rules and see what appeals to you.
>>67818161Everyone's allowed to hate ADB. Just hate him for something he's actually guilty of.
The second pred is nearly finished, what are you working on /hhg/ ?
>>67821101It's salamanders! I'm sure it's salamanders! What do I win?
>>67816309I don't know because I don't have any primaris
>>67821177A bigger tank
>>67821241Ooh, that must be more Salamanders.How many more do I have to get before the grand Thunderhawk prize?
>>67821307Sadly the grand thunderhawk prize is not on the list yet...
>>67804252>Literally decapitates him in a VR Tekken simulatorwhen does that happen?He probably is better than anybody except Fulgrim, Sang, Horus, Russ and with-magic-magnus.He's probably roughly on par with Angron, Khan and Lion.
>>67806646to be fair, sometime you DO make all these invulns, and being the personal fleshlight of 4 Chaos Gods probably helped
>>67804252>Vulkan was killed by a fork so he can't be all that.While strapped down, in a kyme book, by a primarch-grade fork wielded by space batman.Of course he dies of that
>>67815246People don't complain about McNeill because McNeill isn't a stuck up little cunt.He's the most vanilla of the BL writers, he writes his novels about the characters you already know because that's the obvious thing to do, and his stories never are that bloody that the protagonists die, any way.ADB makes up his unique snowflakes because he can't get away with giving Erebus a waifu that's better armed than a rad Inquisitor and sasses marines, and kills some of them so they die a melodramatic effect. It's like how 12 year old girls use being raped as character background for their fanfiction characters : pure, pointless edge.
>>67821952Corax primarch novel. Guilliman has a DAoT VR relic that he and Corax use to bond with each other. Corax beats Guilliman three times in a row, followed by Guilliman beating him the next 17 times. Both can see how the people of the DAoT could get addicted to such technology and so put the device back in stasis.
>>67822048>a waifu that's better armed than a rad Inquisitor and sasses marines, and kills some of them so they die a melodramatic effect.Is that lotara ? Or that one dark eldar chick ?
>>67815973>It’s the same as Gaunt’s Ghosts shitting on the odds because he writes Chaos as completely ineptGaunts Ghosts lose a ton of named characters (not Mary Sues sacrificed for a noble cause). One fan favorite literally got shot off-screen, and mentioned in half a sentence.Gaunts Ghost's enemies aren't inept, they're either crazy fanatics that are roughly competent, or highly competent that face the Ghosts on even footing. The Blood Pact, for example.There are like 3 books where the entire deployment of the Ghosts is completely pointless, besides preventing the Imperials from throwing even MORE units into the grinder.
>>67816865What would you qualify as Imperium wank?
>>67818126>I'm a huge ADB fan why?
>>67822055Ah, neat.Does that make Corax the one Primarch that beat Guilliman strategically AND in 1v1?
>>67822098The Chapter Serf Sassy Black Girl that has a Digital Laser and can hack a fucking Battlebarge.Don't ask me, because I don't even know any more.
>>67822204>>67822098from Spear of the Emperor, that is
>>67822204Oh look, someone who never read the book.And she's not even remotely black.
>>67822184What do you mean?
>>67822339wasn't it corax who also out-strategised Guilliman in warhammer once?
>>67822399Correct.Not even RG could beat Moritat DS spam
>>67822399No. Corax won the battle thrice, but strategically Guillirilla beat him every time. Corax admits even though Moritats would have won him several battles, he'd have lost a war between the two because of Guilliman's logistics.
>>67815246>ADB wanted to kill LorgarAnd that's a good thing?
>>67822167Because a handful of things I don't like doesn't undo what I like. I'm not 12>>67822278>we could've had Black Legion III by now>get this instead
>>67822870I wish it dealt with the horrors of Imperium Nihilus a bit more rather than just the isolation that comes from cutting off warp travel, but I found all the characters pretty great. Everyone's always talked about a chapter that cybernetically enhanced their serfs, or put their serfs into more of a battlefield role. The Mentors, with their background in experimental weapons and tactics seems the perfect choice for it.
I am building Lorgar.I am not quite sure I want to use his scenic base.Might go for a battlefield, some dead istvan loyalists or ultramarines. Not sure yet. For gameplay, should he be on 40mm or 60mm?
>>67823057make it a toilet
>>67822824Lorgar's a grade A cunt, him seeing Horus fall, the traitors getting BTFO before he himself gets beheaded by Bobby G would've been one of the only good things ADB has written, but BL chickened out
>>67823119>why didn't they kill this guy who, in all canon up till now, is alive in M41?
>>67823192he could have been remade with warp shenanigans
>>67823119>lets kill one more primarch for absolutely no reason other than the authors are hacks who can't come up with anything else besides killing off characters for dramatic effect>this would have been a good thing
>>67823231>jk, he's aliveSo what would have been the point?
>>67823192Well, per canon he's isolated himself on Sicarus while the dark council runs the show, don't see why they can't pull an Alpharius and have Kor Phaeron and Erebus pretend he's still alive for morale reasons.But again, this slavish devotion to canon is one of the reasons the Heresy's shit, because there's no impact to many of the fights if you know that they're gonna survive to 40k.>>67823233It isn't for dramatic effect, Lorgar dying would fit his plotline far better than getting stalked by Corax and locking himself up like a bitch
>>67823081Obviously too big.No, but really. I'd like to know what base size I'm actually supposed to use as there's two.
>>67823269>devotion to canon is one of the reasons the Heresy's shitYeah, that's why it's shit...
>>67823264justiceit would have given some justice, the indignity to be remade at his gods mercy, not just get away with it scott free, like all the Traitor Primarchs minus Horus and Aplharion did
>>67822536When recalling it Corax admits he lacks the broad strategic vision of Guilliman. Able to win battles against him but not a war.
>>67823485>authors need to kill of characters, then bring them back to life, to fix narrative problems they themselves created because they couldn't just do something else
>>67823559I think you're seeing this wrong, it would give both satisfaction to loyalists because finally one of the cunts talking big is getting gibbedbut also to Chaoswankers because "Hurr we are Eternal" revival or whatevernot that I care personally, everything to do with Lorgar is awful and I try to avoid it.Still waiting for Robby to behead Lorgar in 40k tho
>>67823610>Still waiting for Robby to behead Lorgar in 40k thoIf it gets done Corax will be the one to do it.
>>67823693but noone has more cause to do it than Robert
>>67823610If it's satisfaction you're after, then throw all the primarchs into a sun, throw that sun into a black holes, seal that black hole into a tesseract vault, send the vault into the webway, have the Laughing God insert it into his anus, have Slaanesh eat the Laughing God, make a metal miniature of Slaanesh, and finally shove that miniature up the faggot's ass who thought writing novels about the HH was a good idea.
>>67823789The idea itself is not bad, just the execution. If they kept the original scope of few novels, it would have been great.
>>67823789The series would have been fine if it was mostly about various line captains and other lower-ranked dudes, and the primarchs and upper echelons of the legions' commands were mostly distant figures, occasionally glimpsed. But once you make primarchs/named characters from 40k (kharn, ahrimen, etc.) the core of so many novels you have to have ebin moments for those guys or people will moan that their favourite character never does anything cool. And then you have this problem: how do you have ebin moments when nobody important can die? Whereas Osi McSteeldonut, captain of the 37th company, can die after several books in which we've got to know and love/despise him and it won't ruin anything in future.
>>67823957But nobody cares about nobodies, they want to read about the cool dudes doing cool shit. Try making Halo without Master Chief. Whenever they try, people rail against it. Company isn't going to throw away money for "artistic integrity" and "compelling narrative" they're gonna feel people the shit they want and they'll eat it up and become fat slobs.
>>67823957 >Osi McSteeldonut, captain of the 37th company, can die after several books in which we've got to know and love/despise himThis, so hard. This is why of all the fuckups HH has made, which recently are innumerable, Loken's reintroduction in Vengeful Spirit made me ree the most. The first three books are good because the major cast are all random guys that you don't know the fate of, and indeed you lose arguably the main protagonist at the end of the trilogy. Only Horus & Abaddon are really untouchable, and I think that makes Abaddon all the more ominous - you know he and Loken are going to fall out, and you know Abaddon walks away, but you really want Loken to be okay. Then he's dead, and it was a great narrative. Then oh, no, he's not dead, and the Heresy is now 50 named characters punching each other in inconclusive duels while apparently a war is on.
>>67824006>nobody cares about nobodiesWho was Ibram Gaunt before the books were written? Literally nobody, no-one in the fanbase had heard of him because he didn't exist. Is the Gaunts Ghosts series some of the best books in the entire black library range? You bet your bollocks to a barndance they are.
>>67824006The first few heresy books also had a cast of nobodies, and they sold like hotcakes
>>67824158Gaunt's Ghosts is its own series.
>>67824006>Try making Halo without Master Chief.Sounds like the first Halo, when Master Chief was just some new video game protagonist.Every story has to start somewhere.
>>67824319>sounds like the first HaloThe one starring Maestro Chef?Also, HH isn't a new story, it has existed almost two decades before the HH novels were written.
Does the cloak he comes with work?Again, 40mm base seems to small (especially as I bulked gim up a bit, made him do leg day etc). But 60mm seems a bit absurd too. Does GW make 50mm bases, would that be ok?Progress status: about 40% done.
>>67824451>FUCKING ALPHA FAGGOTS WHERE ARE MY ARMS
>>67824064>Loken's reintroduction in Vengeful SpiritYou mean in Garro: Legion of One. And then in Grey Angel, and then Luna Mendax, and THEN Vengeful Spirit.Not their fault you read/listened to it out of order.
>>67824539You're just proving his point even more.Loken should've been dead and gone, but I guess they want him to use that "I was there the day Horus killed the Emperor" as the last line of the series
>>67824562Or, as James Swallow said in his interview, there was never any intention of killing Loken off from the start.
>>67824600>current year>trusting BL writersGood one m8, had quite a giggle at that one
>>6782445150mm seems like the sweetspot for a lot of the primarchs, but 40mm can work too.
>>67824539I'm not that anon, but Loken's return pisses on his character and I don't give a FUCK how many audiobooks 'help explain' his return in Vengeful Spirit. Loken was a quintessential Luna Wolf and a quintessential soldier of the Great Crusade - his death on Isstvan III helps cement the death of the Great Crusade and the true beginnings of the Horus Heresy. Symbolically, Loken was The Last Knight of the Emperor's Dreams of Unity, and while Galaxy in Flames may have been a shit book, the Loyalists' doomed last stand against the Warmaster's hordes was beautiful. It might not be as important as Magnus breaking into the Imperial Dungeon or Horus crippling the Emperor, but it is just as poignant and Isstvan III is an amazing conflict on a thematic level. I have ZERO respect for Black Library mouthbreathers who gobble up quite literally anything their bald masters shit out. Learn to think for yourself, anon
>>67824972Oh man, wait till you find out that Laurie Goldkike said that he intentionally changed plot twists because the fans guessed them
>>67824384Anon, it occurs to me a bit late that Combat Evolved came out in late 2001, and that it's entirely possible you've never lived in a world where Halo wasn't a massive, dominant franchise.In the early thousands Master Chief was a nobody. He was a character that started from nothing and was built up over the following sequels into a fan-favorite character the series can't do without.By your own logic Halo should have starred Duke Nukem or James Bond, because those are names people recognize, not some nameless nobody.
>>67825060>intentionally changed plot twists because the fans guessed themI hate it when this is done because it just craps on the interest and devotion of the very people you're making the product for. Also it makes a waste out of all the foreshadowing that's been done to lay the groundwork for the twist.
>>67824064McNeill was apparently not supposed to kill him off in Galaxy in Flames.
Reposting here: Can someone give me a rundown on Horus Heresy booms worth reading that came out after ‘The Primarchs’? Gave this series a long break after reading every book since it began but lost interest. Now I think I’ll just pick the best of the rest.
>>67828074Also just read the comments about Loken’s apparent return and FUCK THAT. Maybe I shouldn’t bother after all
>>67828074The short story anthologies are generally pretty good. Otherwise I'd recommend going by author. My shitty opinion:>must read: Wraight, ADB>almost always great: Abnett>usually solid tier: French, Hayley, McNeil up to A Thousand Sons>usually subpar: Swallow, Thorpe, Annandale, McNeil after A Thousand Sons>DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES tier: Kyme