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I feel people undervalue BBEG who are completely retarded.

Anyone make a villain who got to their threatening position through being petty, bullheaded, and lucky?
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>>67219227
For a villain to be effective, they need to evoke strong emotional reactions in the players. An easy way to do this is to piss off the players. A noble's arrogant son getting away with literal murder because he's got a bunch of bullyboys and some better advisors is a pretty good villain.

I'm also reminded of greentext about the craven villain who ran off after making a mess and a thousand things for the heros to clean up, so much so that the heroes eventually stopped clearing it up, leaving people in mortal danger, just so they could catch this guy and kill him.

Another good example might be Wheatley, from Portal - utterly retarded, and thrust into a position of power where he just makes everything terrible.

I would hesitate for a BBEG to be dumb, because there are very few scenarios where a retard could cause such damage so as to be called "the big bad evil guy", unless it is a very small scale campaign or some otherwise implausible shit happens. But it's doable.
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>>67219227
>BBEG

Fuck out of here with that rpg.net faggotry.
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>>67219358
>they need to evoke strong emotional reactions in the players

Yeah, this would be a problem. They would need to somehow be around her but not be able to completely nip her in the bud right there. It would work better as a bait/switch, but that runs the risk of being lame.
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>>67219400
why does the term BBEG trigger you so?
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>>67219400
I think you mean "Ugh"
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>>67219881
>>67219520
>>67219400
This is such a tired charade.
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>>67219358
Yeah, taking on an unjustly elevate lord is pretty good fodder for a shorter, lower powered campaign, but probably wouldn't be very good as more than a warm up for a longer one.
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>>67220017

Yeah, best you could do is run a campaign where you try to unravel the clusterfuck that has been created.
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>>67219227
I have to agree, Trump is a pretty memorable villain.
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Is Roosh a prime example of a BBEG Bard done properly?
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>>67219227
Matt Ward lost a lot of weight huh
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>>67220135
BBEG implies having great powers and using them to impact the world in a significant way, he's just a manslut that makes petty racist and misoginist comments on the Internet and scams boomers and incels with shitty overpriced books.
He's a tad more influential than the average keyboard nazi activist you find on /pol/ but they are all irrelevant and powerless in the scheme of things.
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>>67220221

Just throw an evil god in there and you are good to go. Or some murders.
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>>67219958
Eck.
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>>67219358
>I would hesitate for a BBEG to be dumb, because there are very few scenarios where a retard could cause such damage so as to be called "the big bad evil guy", unless it is a very small scale campaign or some otherwise implausible shit happens. But it's doable.

I think this depends a lot on what you mean by dumb. Dictators often have split competencies, being good at seizing power but bad at administration and then ramping up their brutality to maintain that power in the face of worsening conditions due to incompetent administration. In many cases in the second generation you can even skip any competency that would have lead to them rising to power. For that matter heredity throwing incompetents into power isn't limited to recent regimes, it shows up plenty in long standing dynasties as well.
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>BBEG
Infantile.
>pic is you
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>>67221791
“Eck” is right
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>>67222277
Again, can we just stop this tired charade?
BBEG vs no BBEG debates are polluting this board more than the presence or lack of the term.
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>>67219227
I mean sure, it can work.
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>>67219400
Would you at least reply to threads that don't use BBEG in the OP, so that they don't die at 7 posts?
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>>67219227
man darius really looks like an evil counterpart of keanu reeves
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>>67222305
Nobody's had a serious BBEG debate in years, anon, we just say "ugh" as a meme in reference to them.
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>>67220221
>>67220245
He's apparently converted to mainline Catholicism, stopped having casual sex, and stopped selling the majority of his books (which include all the ones on how to pick up chicks and advice about casual sex). From a brief glance at his twitter, he's even beginning to show real admiration for African Catholics and women religious.

Which takes him from a shitty villain, given that he was just a sex grifter before, to an even shittier villain because now he's a repentant sex grifter.
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>>67223649
Just call them antagonist?
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You can make a pretty good villain with charisma, a bit of cunning, and the ability to eat more eggs than Cool Hand Luke.
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>>67219227
>BBEG
Ugh
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>>67219227
BBEG prince who is autisticly malicious and being enabled by his old ailing queen grandmother.

oh man it could really work.

Also great for a lose/lose resolution.
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>>67223818
Antagonist can refer to anyone that opposes the party, including the town guard that confiscates their weapons, the potion sellers who refuse to sell them their strongest potions, and the malevolent GM who makes rocks fall and everyone die. "BBEG" is used to refer to a specific type of antagonist, which is the overall villain of a given party's campaign. I would personally substitute the term "BBEG" with "Final Boss", but you can find a term that works for you.
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>>67219227
I get what you mean. My Dark Heresy group is currently fighting Count Olaf. None of them have caught on yet.
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>>67224174
But what if the Final Boss is not the BBEG, because the BBEG isn't defeated through combat?

BBEG means the mastermind, the head honcho, the guy bossing all the other antagonists around and setting things in motion. Final Boss doesn't fit that.
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>>67224277
In that case, you can just call them the Big Bad. Short, sweet, and without the redundant Evil Guy that brings canned disgust responses.
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>>67219400
its a meme you dip
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>>67224321

>compromising like some limp dicked sjw whipped bitch

Comprise is the first step on the path towards surrender.

fuck that
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>>67225142
>inb4 "lol seething"
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>>67219358
Wheatley was extremely intelligent but deliberately programmed to always make the worst decision possible. A mere moron wouldn't have found a way to eject himself into space.
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>>67219227
>BBEG
aw heck
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>>67225968
>aw heck
Language!
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>>67219358
>I would hesitate for a BBEG to be dumb, because there are very few scenarios where a retard could cause such damage so as to be called "the big bad evil guy"
Nero and Commodus immediately comes to mind.
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>>67219227
Lawful Good BBEG that stops people from committing crimes by making it so that there is no one left to commit crime
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>>67224174
You dumb faggot. If you say "the" antagonist, it's clear who you're talking about, so quit being a stupid shit.
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>>67219400
Based, fuck these 1d4chan fags.
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>>67226309
>Commodus
Shame that boy wasn't more like his father.
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>>67225142
>>67224321
But isn’t “Big Bad” the origin of the term and already the name of an antagonist trope, specifically the one “BBEG”s adhere to, and which you are describing?
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>>67232389
wait fuck, i’ve weighed in on this cancerous non-debate, i’ve sunk that low, kill me
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i ripped off 'death is no parenthesis' from the delta green shotgun scenarios for my D&D campaign, an artifact smuggler who took over the city's underground with an artifact that lets him pull instances of himself from other timelines to come back when he dies. he just walks into the rival gang's bar and starts stabbing, and when he dies he just comes back and does it again. all the criminals have rallied to him and the other gang leaders are on the run.

unfortunately his time fuckery has gotten the attention of an extratemporal predator which will kill him in every timeline if it catches him. so now he's running all over the city, switching safe houses every couple days and using the artifact on random commoners to try to distract it.
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>>67219227
Current BBEG in the campaign I run is Tho-Bolos, the swine lord. He's just the super obese leader of the Brambletusk Clan, a group of invasive marauding Boarfolk setting up shop in the biologically dense swamps of the current setting. The only reason he's where he got to now is because he's the biggest fucker around, and he will not move unless he chooses to.
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>>67229388
The fuck kind of game are you playing where someone saying "the antagonist" is clear in ANY GODDAMN WAY?
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>this thread
Ugh!
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>>67220037
>Finally oust Lord Jackass
>Power vacuum opens up where more intelligent Duke decides he may as well make his move on this country, absorbing it with the justification of keeping order.
>Plausible, but he's actually intelligent and evil, which makes the situation way more complicated politically
Boom. Literally just keep trading up villains higher up the food chain in position and threat until things eventually end in an apocalyptic showdown with someone.
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>>67234023
>T H E R E I T I S
Back to the greatest game of charades this board has to offer
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>>67219227

I've done it before with a noble heir before. He wasn't useless (He was actually a skilled mage due to his bloodline) but he was petty and had his magical and political power purely through the nature of his birth. He was exceptionally classist (If you were not a noble, you were not worth the mud on his boots), petty and loved big game hunting as long as the big game wasn't actually in a situation where the animal/monster/human could reasonably win.

He's still one of the most hated villains they've had, because unlike a lot of the people they opposed he didn't really have a goal beyond his own wealth and amusement. They had a certain level of respect for the spy who was doing horrible things for what she believed was the good of her nation, not so much him.
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>>67219227
Something like this?
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>>67219227
yeah it's called the pcs.
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>>67219400
>> Fuck you, Let's talk about nothing
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>>67234163
We obviously need a new, hip term that the normies aren't using or we're playing our tabletop games wrong.
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>>67234102
>P U P P E T K I N G
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>>67234348
>P U P P E R K I N G
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>>67219227
The general consensus here seems to be that a villain like this makes a good villain that people like to hate. I wonder if this could work for a sympathetic villain? Someone who thinks that they're committing necessary evils, but is really just in over their head and causing unnecessary damage.

>>67229113
Like that maybe. It would need a good amount of work to not seem ridiculous, which could undercut sympathy. If they're doing something like slaughtering innocent people though, I think they should be considered formerly lawful good, though they may not be aware. Maybe throw in a smarter and more villainous side character that reassures the main villain so they still think that they're doing what's necessary.
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>>67234371
Woah!
Joffrey liked dogs?
Based.
Would swear fealty to.
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>>67234332
Final Enemy Asshole?
John Badguy?
Player Killin' Villain?
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>>67234485
Professor puppy kicker?
Morally medieval man?
Piñata for vagrant hitmen?
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>>67219227
You just described my favorite type of BBEG. Some asshole that's just there for kicks is also good.

I liked my villain based on all the worst Roman emperor stereotypes. Dumb and probably horny. Party gets through super tough boss fights and into the throne room and he basically says "Late losers!" and fucks right off. Everybody else took his position seriously, he just did it for the nookie like a really shitty Conan.
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>>67219227
Kudos op, you posted a bait thread and managed to find some like minded people.

Fellow exiles from reddit, to tell us all about scary people!
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>>67234332
Main Antagonist Character.

So, it would be the PCs vs MAC.
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>>67219358
my idea for the bbeg is earlier on he's this npc What's with the party but he runs away some time and takes some of their gear and money with him.
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>>67234332
Final/Future Antagonist Guy, or FAG for short
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>>67235169
You did good son, real good.



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