>lovecraftian>you can kill the horrors
You can't kill the gods but you can kill anything else.
>>67216241>lovecraftian>the gm describes the monsters in any detail aside from 'indescribable'
>>67216241>lovecraftians>The horrors seduce you
>>67216241>What are Nightgaunts, Ghouls, and Litteral Cats?
>You can kill the horrors>This unleashes even worse, unkillable horrors onto the world
>>67216241Didn't Cthulu get knocked the fuck out by a boat?
>>67216338You forgot:>Zoogs>Deep Ones>Elder Things>Old Ones sort of (the Elder Things #lockherup'd Cthulhu)
>>67216241>Players on the look out for cultists from the start of the game>They were the heralds all along.
>>67216241>playing a game>no way to win
>>67216406He got woken up before it was time and when the boat hit him he said "fuck it", hit snooze and went back to sleep. The story is very clear that we're still fucked and that humanity will eventually degenerate/transform into beings like the Old Ones, and when it actually is time we'll welcome them with open armsWhich is an idea that's gotten exponentially more poignant than Lovecraft intended or most likely expected with the rise of transhumanist thought, honestly. Although in ways that would probably horrify him.
>>67216338>>67216470The people who think that all Lovecraftian monsters are unkillable and unknowable have literally just read half of The Call of Cthulhu and called it a day. It triggers the fuck out of me.
>horror>you can kill Lovecraft
>>67216562praise the literate anon
The truth is that Humanity has begun to create horrors far beyond what Lovecraft could imagine. Just imagine what Lovecraft would have done with something like the Chernobyl Incident, or supercolliders. We create mini-big bangs for science now. Cthulhu is trite.
>>67216562Call of Cthulhu doesn't actually contradict that notion, though. Now, At the Mountains of Madness? There's like 2 pages infodumping the anatomy of the Elder Things and the rest of the story is a very slow breakdown of their history.
>>67216602Yeah, CoC doesn't contradict that.However, The Dunwich Horror, The Shadow Over Innsmouth, AtMoM (which you already mentioned), The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, and kinda The Whisperer in Darkness/The Dreams in the Witch-House all do.
>>67216655Dunswich Horror is also notable for being the only Lovecraft story that in any way resembles a Call of Cthulhu campaign
>>67216682lmaoFor all you newfags out here, by the way, let me lay it down for you: Lovecraft's "thing" is that all the stories seem like a HFY thing until this happens:>"Hey that invisible guy was kind of a fucking pushover; who's his boss?">"Yeah, I bet that guy's not so hard either">The guy's boss is literally the sentient embodiment of the Space-Time continuum >"Fuck"Also the embodiment of the Space-Time continuum is also the Kabbalah and pic related
>>67216289>Lovecraftian>GM doesn’t use sophisticated language to detail the teneborus and harrowing abominations undulating down the hall.
>>67216486>the only way to win is kill the ancient evilDid you know you can use your nose to breathe?
>>67216552>Although in ways that would probably horrify him.To be fair, Lovecraft doesn't seem like a hard guy to horrify. I've see shit every day that would give that guy the vapors.
>>67216979I'm happy with a>The thing is more terrible than I can describe
>>67216241Lovecraftian horror is about encountering aspects of reality that you aren't equipped to deal with. Maybe the knowledge of it is inherently harmful, or maybe it just causes deep emotional or intellectual discomfort in those who encounter it. The actual nature of the horror isn't very important. What's important is how the horror fits into the world, and how it fits (or doesn't fit) into the protagonists understanding of the world.
>>67218427I, on the other hand, need undulation
>>67216241How about you actually read some Lovecraft, you fucking faggot? Normal people with normal weaponry killed weird creatures all the time in his stories. The idea that they are so resilient and so lethal that no normal person stands a chance against them in a straight up fight is entirely a byproduct of the CoC RPG, and while Sandy might be a nice person he's still misunderstanding Lovecraft on almost the same level as Derleth.
>>67218643I admire the effort, but you're a bit late for this.
>>67216241S'up dawg, that's a sure is a cool unknowable horror you got there, shame is something where to happen to it.
>>67218168The man had a lot of traumas, his parents died horribly and his aunts were insane and horrible. He was afraid of everything and everyone.Sad for him, good for us.
>>67216593Stalker mixed with CoC sounds fucking cool
>>67218818He was also afraid of immigrants, can’t forget that part, as it’s kinda funny.Not that that’s a thing anyone can actually judge him for, as it was the early 20th Century.
>>67218846He also lived in fear of the idea that he was somehow tainted by his bloodline, what with the crazy mother and the syphilis mad father.
You kill the horrors to stop the inconceivable from happening. Of course, to kill the horrors, you had to master your fear of them first.
>OP>Rarely posts anything original
>>67217177>Every horror is now an ancient evil
>>67216470>ZoogsThis really sounds like some kind of racial slur.>GET OFF THE STREET YOU FUCKING ZOOGS
>>67216552I thought the Thing they fled from in the story either wasn’t Cthulhu, orwas the part of Cthulhu that projects into the physical dimension
>>67218846early 20th century immigrants are scary though, angry and violent potato peoples of both northern and eastern european flavor and italian jewish mobsters
>>67216593or even worse, Civil Rights
>>67218846>Not that that’s a thing anyone can actually judge him for, as it was the early 20th Century.Can't judge people for feeling that way today!
>>67216593>We create mini-big bangs for science nowBy that logic every particle collision is a mini big bang. Or at least those with enough energy to create new particles, which is basically all of them because photons are massless.
>>67218168Yeah, times have changed since the 1920's, you know that, right?
>>67216241someone needs to read more Robert E. Howard
>>67216241>lovecraftian>you can kill the small time cheap ass horrors>you can run for your life from ancient horrors/gods
>>67216327Any Lovecraftian game should end with the players forming/joining a cult. Change my mind.
>>67216241Well, they killed the Dunwich horror, a bunch of Deep Ones and their kin, and arguably Ephraim/Asenath Waite as well. Plus there was the whole "ramming Cthulhu with a steamship" thing.>>67216289>"Lovecraft never described his monsters!!!">>"Most of the bodies, while roughly bipedal, had a forward slumping, and a vaguely canine cast. The texture of the majority was a kind of unpleasant rubberiness." (from Pickman's Model)>>"Six feet end to end, three and five-tenths feet central diameter, tapering to one foot at each end. Like a barrel with five bulging ridges in place of staves. Lateral breakages, as of thinnish stalks, are at equator in middle of these ridges. In furrows between ridges are curious growths – combs or wings that fold up and spread out like fans. . . which gives almost seven-foot wing spread." (from At The Mountains Of Madness)Try again, bud.
>>67218837Original book on which the whole thing is loosely based in very much about unknowable, though it's comparatively light on horror. And also set somewhere in North America.
>>67216552Also remember that Cthulhu is not a god, he is just a priest to things he thinks of as gods. That's how fucked we are.
How do I make my lovecraftian mini-boss entities properly menacing?I was considering giving them powers that let them edit game rules (changing the number of face on a die to his power number), edit turn order, and the location will shift on the fly within a distance of them.Am I on the right track?
>>67219598sure you can, when most immigrants are fleeing problems America helped create
>>67220182I don't think reference to game rules is good for my immersion.
>>67220202What better way to demonstrate higher dimensional powers than altering the physics by which the world runs?
>>67220178Wasn't that only established by later authors adding to Lovecrafts works? Authors who missed the point about as much as most anons and added a good/evil conflict to something that is supposed to be beyond such petty human concepts? I'm pretty sure it was. Which means it isnt really Lovecraftian.
>>67216241Depends on the horror you're talking about. If you're talking about the lesser creatures like Deep Ones, that's fine and perfectly cool. If you're talking about the elder gods, then yeah I can agree.
>>67219559Underrated, and perhaps even not for the reason one might initially assume
>>67216241You can kill anything if the explosion is big enough!
>>67216241Plenty of the horrors are killed in Lovecraft, they're just minor ones. If the mortals of the story are unable to fight back at all, it just sort of becomes a boring "run away" story. You want there to be some agency.A vidya that did a good job of this was Dark Corners of the Earth, where the FBI, literally led by Hoover, storms Innsmouth with a bunch of machineguns and dozens of agents, and basically wipes the place out. Sure there's a lot of creepy fish men, but a bunch of agents with tommyguns are more than a match for them. It isn't until a Shoggoth shows up that things start going wrong, and even then they defeat that.The point at which no amount of force may avail your mortal characters is when you start hitting sanity-smashing Old Ones that cause you to shovel dirt into your mouth until you die just by looking at them.
>>67216406At the time, like the 1800s when Lovecraft lived, ramming a boat into a guy was a big fucking deal. In modern literature, that’d be like crashing the International Space Station into Cthulhu from orbit just to put him back to sleepAlso what >>67216552 said
Do you think there is something unknown out thereThat miraculously remained undiscoveredSomething that hides in the depthsThat bides its timeAnd dreams about petroleum and chrystalsThat dreams about fossils and dead coralsThat dreams about radiated atollsTonight
>>67216748Yog-Sothoth seems like a pretty cool dude. I mean, imagine literally all of space and time, all the infinite realities and dimensions, turning it's attention to you for even a moment. Then he goes and gives you some grandsons because he's just that nice of a guy.
>>67216979>Non-euclidean cyclopean architecture
>>67216241You realize Cthulhu is kill able in the mythos, right?
>>67216979>"You ever wonder what a starfish mole's anus looks like? Imagine that but with teeth."That's about all I need.
>>67221035>imagine literally all of space and time, all the infinite realities and dimensions, turning it's attention to you for even a momentNot going to lie, even without a threat of any kind, that thought just made me feel a spasm of terror. Fuck.I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a celebrity in this day and age, let alone while shitposting on 4chan
There's nothing saying you can't kill horrors in a lovecraft inspired setting, it's just that1. Killing things should not permanantly solve problems2. Killing more than the most trivial of entities should require sacrifice and/or for you to embrace to some degree the metaphysical, and thus yourself become distorted. One of the best lovecraft inspired stories in recent times is Bloodborne. Yes, you do spend the whole game fighting giant monsters, but only by embracing ultraviolence and the very alien god derived blood magic that created the monsters, and the best ending involves simply escaping the game's hell world setting without even permanantly fixing it, while the bad endings involve the player character replacing core elements of it.
I will create a Nyarlathotep-tier planet-eater and the players will be able to kill it using anger, drugs, righteousness, and faith, and there's absolutely nothing you nihilistic faggots can do to stop me.
Everything is killable in the mythos. Hell, in CoC half of the bestiary can easily be shredded by a good rifle.
>>67220211run it with less rules, period. then your players are at the creatures mercy without a frame of reference to latch onto. cthulhu dark has the right idea
>>67221060Bit of trivia for you, cyclopean means that it's made from massive chunks of solid material that would need the strength and skill of a cyclops to to construct. Many of the cyclopes were children of gods or titans, and they provided the gods with weapons needed to overthrow the titans.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclopean_masonry
>>67219577It’s a perfectly cromulent word.
>>67216241>horrorcraftian>you can kill the love
>>67218427this is dumb, not scary, and most of all it's fucking lazy. it's a cop-out. it's a crutch. it makes me so god damn buttmad on the internet.three details. three evocative elements of the Thing that give an oblique impression of it without telling you its life story. that's all you need.
>>67220044It's set in CanadaThe book is Roadside Picnic. I highly recommend it. Read it three times now. Might do a fourth.
>>67216562I swear it’s the same faggot making bait threads across multiple boards
>>67225138What if I drew a picture instead of describing it?
>>67219971>Well, they killed the Dunwich horror, a bunch of Deep Ones and their kinDeep ones are not godsThe Dunwich horror is not a godThey are vermin just like us.
>>67225584But OP just said horrors
>>67225624Fine yes, then in that case OP is a supreme faggot because the HORRORS are usually killable. They are not the main attraction The true source of horror in Lovecraftian stories is NOT the dangerous gribblies that cultists summon nor is it the horrible atrocities they perform to summon them. A cult kidnapping children and drowning them in clear glass boxes while their mothers watch is NOT the source of horror. Its the idea that they are doing this to appease something greater, that something greater would even respond to that kind of thing positively. As aweful as the cultists are, what they are praying to is infinitely worse. They think they are appealing to some "dark god" but their frail human minds cannot fathom what that truly means. They see a shadow of a shadow of the gods power and are horrified, but their little monkey brains think "I can use this as a tool or weapon" No you fucking cannot, not without destroying everything and everyone that has ever existed or ever will exist.
>>67225827>>67225624Cont. The "Horrors" that are summoned are the equivalent of Bill Gates donating 2$ to the local charity on his way out of a grocery store because the kids appealed to his sense of pity. The cultists ask a god for something, they spend all their time and effort to do something impressively horrifying and the gods are not impressed. Not even a little bit. Its adorable to them in fact that these little hairless apes are trying so hard and aww look at them they pulled off a cute ritual. Okay I'm gonna give them a quarter and send them on their way. Aww, they are so happy with that. The "horrors" are just skin louses, they are vermin of a higher caliber than humans. It is a pity prize for participation. It might be a completely different creature that showed up unrelated to their god because their patron failed to notice their ceremony. This is what a summoning gone wrong looks like.
>>67220877>>67216406I mean just get a bigger boat.Have any of you cucks seen a missle cruiser or destroyer before?
>>67222231Nyarlathotep isn't that big a deal. She's just a priestess of much more powerful things while also herself being more powerful than we can grasp.
>>67225918Currently, our manufacturing capability does not allow for the construction of a large enough boat. Perhaps if we constructed it in space, we would not need to abandon the sacred boat shape.
>>67226096>"she">"priestess">implying humanlike relationships and motivesgay. lovecraft is a trencher running over an anthill, from the perspective of the ants.
>>67216287You can't kill the god but you can kill yourself which makes you win in the end.
>>67225883Except for the ones non-aligned with a deity? Elder Things, Shoggoths, Yithians, Hounds of Tindalos. Those are all horrors in their own right, and while exceptionally hard to kill, it could be done.The cosmos is unfathomably vast for anyone except an Outer God, and there are uncountable numbers of potential horrors that no god has touched.
>>67219955Only the living players.
>>67216241God, this is my problem with Arkham horror. I love fantasy flight games and the lovecraftian aesthetic but the fact you can kill Cthulhu through some stroke of luck is dumb. The closest anyone got in the original was some dude ramming a boat right into cthulhu's face seconds after he awoke and even then he just made him sleep again
>>67220877is that like a titanic style gamebreaker? the equivilent of nukes?
>>67226096>>67226513>its entire story is about turning humans mad and gaining followers through miracles>refers to itself as a dark pharaoh (a religious and political leader)>later stated to have a thousand facesGenderless, still a priest.
>>67226513how is 'she' any dumber than 'he'
>>67226999they're equally dumb
>>67216241>Lovecraftian horror taunts the party, "your technology is moot. There is no stick sharp enough or rock heavy enough for you to harm us with.">Campaign becomes a quest to find a Sufficiently Heavy Rock
>>67226666Nice plan Super Satan, that's why Jesus won
>>67220247lovecraft lived through the great war. nihlism was in back then.
>>67216241>Lovecraftian>They're cute girls
can lovecraftian horrors be benevolent? like a human with an ant farm or a butterfly collection.
>>67227441Good luck finding any big franchise with sc-fi traits without at least some lovecraftian influence.
>>67227479>can lovecraftian horrors be benevolent?Some of them can assist some humans but not due to altruism, and being close to them is always extremely dangerous.
>>67227406nyarlathotep is a little different cause all the stories depict it as acting like a human, but none of the others should be like that, and we don't really know what nyarlathotep is or why it acts like that. i think one suggestion is it's an emanation of other entities. maybe it's an echo of alien power or some psychic reverberation that's processed by humans as a dude, which would explain why it's often in culturally familiar forms (egyptian pharaoh, old scratch, etc.)but in general the gods themselves shouldn't really be comprehensible. again, a trencher running through an anthill from the perspective of the ants.the actual big boys should be used sparingly, if at all, because they're like that. it's blowing your load. as soon as you drop cthulhu in a game the game is essentially over. that's why i disagree with >>67225827 . the more mundane threats like cults and wizards and killable monsters are the part of the game that actually creates actionable threats and can be investigated and defeated. they're the heart of the game, the gods should stay in the background except as an apocalyptic failure state.
>>67226772Yithians are Timelords from Dr Who but nicer.
>>67227625Yithians aren't nice. They're not immediately hostile to humans but remember their main goal on earth is to preserve a timeline where humanity goes extinct in a nuclear holocaust.
>>67227583that's interesting. i'd agree.they're like skyrim players with access to the console commands.
>>67221060The sanity-shattering horror when you learn the Earth itself has non-Euclidian geometry
>>67227625>>67227716and more salient to the point, they're horrible to beholdthus, "a horror"
>>67227539solely because they drive you mad by exposure, or any other reason?
>>67220877Lovecraft lived till 1935-36 if my memory serves and most of his stories are set between the great war and his death, just sayin'.
>>67226513You should try reading Lovecraft, anon. Nyarlathotep is that one Elder God who mixes it up with sapients in their own form.
>>67226513>>67226913I've just seen a lot of portrayals put Nyarlathotep as a 'female', so it's what my brain defaults to. People call Cthulhu a he for whatever reason as well. I have to say this is the first time I've seen someone get mad at me for assuming someone's gender, though.Like, absolutely both are it.
>>67218837Well, roadside picnic, the basis for the s.t.a.l.k.e.r. games and to a lesser extent film revolves around that, a great read but isn't exactly like the games both in tone, the book being less action and more contemplative, and in premisse:some xenos entities stopped by on their cosmic journey for a pit stop and left their trash in five exclusion zones (the trash being the artifacts in the book and games) as well as anomalies that fuck you up in horrifying ways, way beyond the games depiction. The entire ordeal described as a roadside picnic on the part of the ayys, leaving behind trash and other things for the animals to figure out what to do with.
>>67216241>lovecraftian horror>doesn't have interracial relationships
>>67220296>>67220178Read a Lovecraft collection relatively recently and while I skimmed Call of Cthulhu I vaguely remembered that either the crazed sculptor or Norwegian first mate said something about cthulhu being a priest of some sort, although both are of dubious sanity when the main character meets them so I guess it is up to interpretation.
>>67227963Different anon but the idea is they operate on an entirely different scale as us and we dont know how they operate. Them helping us could be a human kid running an ant farm. It seems kind until the kid gets bored or doesn't know enough about how ants work to keep them alive.
>>67216241I will say one of the greatest moments of associated fiction for me was in Demonbane when the main villain summoned Cthulu and then immediately sacrificed him to summon Azathoth.It should go without saying that winning the game had nothing to do with fighting the latter.
>>67216241The horrors are horrors because they are unknown, not because they are incorporeal unkillable Gods. Most of the monsters in Lovecrafts actual writings kill only through induced madness, so theoretically its entirely practical or at least possible to kill the horrors provided he have enough mental fortitude to endure.So tired of listening to psueds trying to sound smart by making God's out of lovecraftian gods when they're actually just aliens most of the time.
>>67228618isn't the entire point of mindfuckery type attacks that it doesn't matter how much willpower you have? like airborne depression or something.
>>67228492i think that could be fun in a lighter parody. just a demigod repeatedly killing humans and being like 'shit, i need a new one. damn these things eat a lot'
>>67228618Most monsters cause physical injury.
>>67228790They die without oxygen but also if you give them too much? fuck no wonder these things only comprehend 3 spatial dimensions.
>>67227854>A triangle does not act like a triangle when it is not in the shape of a triangle, but when it is close in scale to a triangle it acts close to a triangleI feel like this is a communication major's attempt at explaining STEM
>kafkaesque>you can fight city hall... and win!
>>67229010>Still cares about college major>Probably still talks about high school
>>67229010HEY GUYS! DAE YEET!
>>67216979>mfw the DM thinks there can be bravery, without madness
>>67220296The works from Lovecraft focused on cosmic horror. The fact that we humans are entirely insignificant in the grander scale of the universe. A godlike being like cthulu isn't at all aware of our existence and would likely destroy our entire galaxy, not in a whim, but in a trivial and unaware brush of the arm. We aren't even insects to these beings. Barely specks of dust. To try and imagine or somehow look on their form is to lose your mind. They exist in planes of reality our minds cannot comprehend.
>>67216241Why isint the internet a lovecraftian god yet? it is a dark mirror in to the human condition and psyche we made yet don't understand it holds all knowledge and is everywhere and no where
>>67216486Maybe I'm an entitled fuck, but that's the biggest thing I hate about Lovecraft. The fact that inevitable defeat and a hideous ending are foregone conclusions. It's not fun when every character I make ends up dead, insane, or worse, to the point where the only way to have a decent ending is to disengage from the plot entirely.
>>67229340>cthulu could take out a galaxy on accidentThat punk? No fucking way. He's small scale chumpchange.
>>67229367Staring at it too long can definitely make you crazy
>>67229340I mean, in fairness, boy crazy pre-teen Nyarlathotep in a belly shirt arguably makes that more the case. The fact that something like her/it is basically a tiny spark of light next to the creatures it worships, capable only through its relative weakness of even awareness of us, makes the actual 'gods' that much more horrifying an unimaginable.
>>67227716It was really fucking spooky how mankind seems to be heavily implied to end in a nuclear doomsday in this story even though it was writen 9 years before Hiroshima>makind destroyed>cities in ruins>storm-ravaged surface>cockroarches turned into the dominant species >underground cities
>>67216241>laughs in quad damage
>>67229403There have been mentions in this thread already to keep the gods in the backgrounds as long as you can. Focus on the cults and tangible, killable creatures.
>>67226793>Not rasing the twisted body's and souls of your fallen comrades as flesh puppets for the glorious gods you now worship. Lameo
>>67222231But the drugs would weaken them, making them more vulnerable?
>>67227963Because while people love the idea of "alien, unknowable" entities, they forget what that actually means.Concepts like empathy, loyalty, anger, or fear may be as alien to Lovecraftian horrors as non-carbon based life is to us. You could wipe out a deep one's cult, the result of a thousand years of hard work, and how they respond is utterly unpredictable. They may not give even the slightest shit, or they might get pissy and blink humanity out of being with a thought. We just can't know.
>>67228137Chthulhu indentiy himself a "he", Nyarlothep was never described as female or said to have female personalities. No big "lovecraftian" author gave him female avatars.You're just a weeb that play Demonbane and read this shitty manga I can't remember the name.
H.P. Lovecraft is perhaps the shittiest writer of the 20th century and anyone who unironically reads his trash is a soft-brained moron. Second only to Poe in terms of how overrated this dips prose is.
>its too hard to describe, i swear its that spooky
>>67229953>Demonbane>appears to be a mecha porn game with tentaclesApparently I'm not weeb enough to know what I'm looking at.
>>67218677That's a harbor tug. You need a much stronger boat than that.
>>67229999If your standards are high enough to call lovecraft works "trash" then you probably can't even enjoy literal straight up "fun" trash like Avengers, Star Wars or Avatar ironically.
>>67216241But they always come back anyway. Implacability defies death.
>>67230148>If your standards are high enoughStar Wars and Avengers are high art compared to H.P. Lovecraft, dude.Avatar is straight up ass and shame on you for even mentioning it.
>>67230148>then you probably can't even enjoy literal straight up "fun" trash like Avengers, Star Wars or Avatar ironically.Fuck off to Reddit.>>67230273>Star Wars and Avengers are high art compared to H.P. Lovecraft, dude.Yeah stick with those, Lovecraft is too deep for you.
>>67229999t. pseud. At least read Dream Cycle before you shittalk the entirety of Lovecraft's work.
>>67228163Could do the same for CoC, just make it Cthulu instead of ayyyys.
>>67230335>pseudDon't use /lit/ terms, it outs you as a brainlet. Lovecraft is a shitty writer, prove me wrong.>>67230292>2deep4uSorry, did I upset you? Maybe I need to sprinkle more needless adjectives in my sentences.
>>67230399>Lovecraft is a shitty writer, prove me wrong.You made the claim, you are the one that needs to provide proof. Stop being a pseud.
>>67230273>Star Wars and Avengers are high art compared to H.P. Lovecraft, dude.Thanos had the most retarded villain plan in cinema history but that's ok because he's "crayzah", Sidious was a completelly 2 dimensional le evil character. And the message of those stories are...fucking nothing, fucking dragonball tier shallowness, oh wait sorry Dragonball at least had consistent character development unlike MCU and SW, my bad Akira.
>>67230420I claimed nothing, just stated a fact. It irks you. Prove me wrong.>>67230431>Thanos had the most retarded villain plan in cinema history but that's ok because he's "crayzah", Sidious was a completelly 2 dimensional le evil character. There is literally nothing in these descriptions that cannot be applied to Lovecraft's characters and general aesthetic.
>>67216406That was just cthulhu hitting snooze on his alarm clock and going back to sleep because it wasn't time to wake up yet. By the time the boat was through him he was already fully regenerating the damage and glaring at it before heading back to bed.
>>67230399It's not even the needless adjectives for me, it's just that the man writes like a documentary. It's all so dry and boring, and he thinks that saying I should 've afraid is a substitute for actually inciting fear or dread or any other emotion. I'm never invested in the characters or story, so the prose is just a slog to get to the actual horror concepts, which are the only remotely interesting part. He also makes it hard to take him seriously when he's just so comically racist all the time.
>>67230431>Dragonball at least had consistent character developmentSuper says hello.
>>67230442Literally 16 years old.
>>67230469His racism is additive, not reductive. The world the stories takes place in is that much more surreal in that context of its old timey conventions.
>>67230474>still can't name one good Lovecraft story
>>67230531I did on my very first post.
>>67230507>His racism is additive, not reductiveHe literally wrote essays about how much he hated Jews and blacks.
>>67230507To me it's just obtrusive and silly. I can take old writers who are racist/sexist/anti-Semitic seriously when it's not done so ridiculously.
>>67230549>STILL can't name ONE good Lovecraft story
>>67230555Don't forget his wonderful poem about where black people came from.
>>67230507> The world the stories takes place in is that much more surreal in that context of its old timey conventions.Just so I know what you mean, are you saying that his stories are more effective as horror because the racism is so absurd is makes the world more absurd - which to you adds to the weird atmosphere?
>>67230562>bitches about Lovecraft>doesn't even know about Dream CycleTextbook Pseud everyone.
>>67230507It's like listening to your great grandpa tell a long, winding story full of anecdotes while occasionally stopping to go on a racial tirade. It's goofy as hell to read.
>>67230599That's actually a great description of Lovecraft's style in general. >>67230586Dream Quest has cool ideas behind it but the whole "self insert facilitated worldbuilding" bullshit is pretty tiresome. Other than that I haven't gotten into it because I don't like his writing so I'm not going to read more than necessary to figure out why.
>>67230555Did you hear my arguing he wasn't a racist? >>67230579Basically, yeah. Lovecraft's world is one full of fear, and knowing his mental illness based beliefs makes his work more fascinating, not less.
>>67230562"The Shadow Out of Time" and "At the Mountains of Madness".
>>67230673I can get that it would make them more fascinating from a literary history/analysing his work angle - but personally, it doesn't make the actual quality of the work better, I think it makes it worse.
>>67230555And then he married a hot jewish milf.
>>67226666Indeed AVE DOMINUS NOX
>>67230673I guess I just want to read horror stories, not psychoanalyse an autistic shut-in.
>>67230733Can't blame him.
>>67230741>>67230718If that was its only appeal, I'd agree that it's not enough on its own. But despite claims that it's objectively the worse thing on earth... people do enjoy it. Honestly, I feel like a lot of the hate comes from him being overhyped.
>>67230840Oh I'm not the guy saying its all shit, I just think that 1) yeah its overhyped and 2) the racism just takes from the stories.
>>67230586>still can't name A SINGLE, SOLITARY story Lovecraft wrote>>67230703Mountains of Madness was poorly written. Builds to a stupid non-reveal of nameless gods on mountaintops. Nothingburger.Shadow out of Time was similarly constructed, similarly stupid. A wildly overrated conglomeration of random letters that tell us about a Great Race and their mythical achievements, all of which is pointless in the end.
>>67230868Is actually underhyped since it caused a huge impact on horror, sci fi and even fantasy.
>>67230912The huge impact is it's overhype, in my opinion. A lot of the Lovecraft inspired stuff is actually better than that of Lovecraft. His concepts are cool and interesting, and while his execution is shit those concepts survive beyond that (plus some pseudo-intellectuals like how many big words he uses).
>>67229071Gave me a chuckle.Now get back to work.
>>67216701I don't get it
>>67231097Cthulhu was about to wake up in a story but hit his head in a ship while still dizzy and passed out.
>>67216241But that's exactly why people like Warhammer, though?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4nZUEkAsw8
>>67230912>>67230969Yeah. Even as a Lovecraft fan, I agree that it's the Lovecraft Mythos, and less Lovecraft himself that have the larger impact.
>>67216241A bunch of old dude killed the Dunwich Horror
>>67216241Plenty of beings in Lovecraft's stories are killable. It just doesn't actually matter...
>>67231138But isnt the impact his because theyre his mythos?
>>67230733>>67230555Yeah. Dude's racism mellowed out later in life as he started talking to people who weren't literally crazy. His wife got him out of his shell, but he eventually regressed until the two eventually stopped talking.
>>67231292It's complicated. Lots of people shit on him because his fanbase can be obnoxious, but he's also not the direct writer for a lot of famous works in his own lifetime that drew on his universe. There's a case one could make for the idea that his mythos were a collaborative, because they were. Completely dismissing his personal impact is mostly dumb, though.I mean, I think the only good book Hemmingway wrote was The Old Man and the Sea, but I wouldn't call him unimportant.
>>67231436>but he's also not the direct writer for a lot of famous works in his own lifetime that drew on his universe. There's a case one could make for the idea that his mythos were a collaborative, because they were"lovecraftian" stories made by other authors besidess hp lovecraft were pretty much forgotten, Chtulhu, necronomicon, Deep Ones,the mad arab The great race of yith,nyarlothep,Shoggoths were all made by him, August Derleth and others left little to no impact on fiction.
>>67227479Imagine if, some day, some formless horror descends upon the earth. The size of a mountain, and looking like a cross between a virus and a vampire squid, it just hovers there. Doing absolutely nothing. A few hours later, it zooms across the world, seemingly hovering above every single person in the world. Then, it drops a cube made entirely out of some unknown material into the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, then vanishes. The cube radiates constant heat, an infinite energy source.The being was benign, even helpful - it just wanted to share energy! - but how would humanity react? Everything we know about the universe would be overturned. The entire fabric of society would be overturned in moments, religions dying and reforming over the course of hours.The danger of even a benevolent entity might not be from them, but from what their attention brings. Of course, in true lovecraftian fiction, they're not going to be benevolent because we can't even comprehend what they want. Maybe the concept of "benevolence" stops existing once you pass a certain intelligence threshold. Who knows?
lovecraftian/cosmic horror is based on the views of the reader. It's supposed to tke your views and flip them; people back in his time assumed either:1. god's here and he loves us2. there's no gods haha lovecraft picked option 3. there are gods, and they really don't care, which goes against the established thoughts at the time.that said>cosmic horror for /pol/>black people are objectively the master race
>>67230718I never feelt like his works were filled with racism, most of his racism were in letters he send to his friends and none of them were part of his shared universe, the only black characters in lovecraft universe afair a couple of hardworking sailors who help the protagonist to find a location.
>>67216241Old Man Henderson arrived in this thread, he'd like a word with O.P
>>67231955>forgetting niggerman>forgetting the giganigger from Herbert West, Reanimator
>>67231955A lot of the horror in The Horror at Red Hook is about strange foreigners.And you can kind of read between the lines in Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family.But yeah, it's not really too blatant.What I don't get is why Lovecraft always gets the short end of the stick in this regard. Has anyone actually read The Lair of the White Worm by Bram Stoker? Holy fucking shit, it's so racist it would make Lovecraft blush. Here's some choice quotes:>But the face of Oolanga, as his master called him, was unreformed, unsoftened savage, and inherent in it were all the hideous possibilities of a lost, devil-ridden child of the forest and the swamp—the lowest of all created things that could be regarded as in some form ostensibly human.>“Let me give you a word of advice: If you have the slightest fault to find with that infernal nigger, shoot him at sight. A swelled-headed nigger, with a bee in his bonnet, is one of the worst difficulties in the world to deal with. So better make a clean job of it, and wipe him out at once!”>“But what about the law, Mr. Caswall?”>“Oh, the law doesn’t concern itself much about dead niggers. A few more or less do not matter. To my mind it’s rather a relief!”>“I’m afraid of you,” was her only comment, made with a sweet smile and in a soft voice.>“All right,” he said, “let us leave it at that. Anyhow, we shall be rid of one of them!”>“I don’t love niggers any more than you do,” she replied, “and I suppose one mustn’t be too particular where that sort of cleaning up is concerned.” Then she changed in voice and manner, and asked genially: “And now tell me, am I forgiven?”>“You are, dear lady—if there is anything to forgive.”
>>67232006If Old Man Henderson was posted today modern /tg/ would ignore and hate him.
>>67230907>Builds to a stupid non-reveal of nameless gods on mountaintops. Nothingburger.You either missed the ENTIRE fucking point of that story or you read half of a wikipedia summary. There's nothing "nameless" in AtMoM: the twist is that the Elder Things 1) weren't that much higher than humanity in the pecking order 2) are now extinct or degenerated into animals, with the things that killed them (the Shoggoths, their former servants) still loose and 3) their civilization at its prime could barely fend off the Old Ones, which doesn't paint a good picture for the future of humanity. And everyone thinks the protagonists are crazy, so no one's willing to listen to their warnings about not fucking with the antarctic any further.
Lovecraft didn't usually tell stories where the characters kill the horrors, because he didn't write that kind of character, but the only time that he said you CAN'T kill the horror was Cthulhu (because that is not dead which eternal can lie).When people say "lovecraftian", they mean substance, not style. His style wasn't all bad but it isn't really what people take away, people want to see other kinds of stories in the same kind of world.
>>67232448>they mean substance, not style>in a genre fucking bloated with "lol non-euclidean you cant' even describe it, tentacles eldritch eldritch cyclopean" thesaurus bullshitthere are a few authors who do it right but most lovecraftian shit is absolutely aping the style, not the substance
>lovecraftian>you can fuck the horrs
>>67232448>>67232572Lovecraft's "substance" was really just him musing about then-cutting edge scientific and philosophical concepts/discoveries aalong with his own very particular anxieties (like one of his grandparents being Welsh or an extraordinary fear of fish) and then tying that all together with overwrought purple prose. You see the same vibe mostly in hard sci-fi these days, like Blindsight and Three Body Problem. Most people nowadays don't find the ideas that the ocean is really deep or the earth is very old or the universe is very big or that there existed civilizations before 19th-20th century white anglo-saxon protestants viscerally terrifying, so it needs to get more articulate in order to have the same impact
>>67232448How often do other mythos stories tell you about a limp-wristed protagonist who sees a terrible truth, and faints as soon as he sees it, and that's basically the whole story? That's what most of Lovecraft's stories were, and I've never really seen that story-about-a-glimpse thing copied. You are correct though. People copy his purple pros, and that would be filed as style, not substance.
>>67232219lel cos CoC is serious business faggotory.
>>67219160Slurs!? In Lovecraftian literature?It's more likely than you think.
>>67232706>>67232572I think that people don't connect with Lovecraft's racial insecurities, which is why he is widely known as racist even though so many other authors might deserve that more, but I think that the non-racial stuff still resonates with people. The ocean is still scary, mang. But you're right that we can't really experience these stories the way that someone 100 years ago would have.
>>67216241>Not believing in the will of humanity to kill anything that threatens it Lol what a beta fag
>>67219598well, if you do judge them, just make sure the cops don't "lose" all the identification you have on your person
>>67229226>mfw the tide does not turn
>>67218168Yea I know I mean I have to see black people almost everyday
>>67232809>>67231955>>67232204If you want to see every single racial stereotype that existed in 14th century Europe, all used in the same story, then you should read some of Robert E Howard's historical fiction.
>>67222158>>"You ever wonder what a starfish mole's anus looks like?"Of course, who doesn't?
>>67226096Nyarlathotep isn't a priest, he's a messenger deity in a pantheon in which most of the other gods are bugshit nuts, even by the standards of the races that worship them. Nyarlathtep is one of three gods that do things for logical reasons.
>>67233356To add to this... I feel like people should learn a little empathy. /pol/ is what it, but looking at Lovecraft's past, it's pretty clear the dude was absolutely NOT a product of his time. He was extremely racist, even for his time... and it was because of childhood abuse and mental issues developing from those events. His racism was a symptom of a disease. A disease that helped him create his works and drove his mind to the dark places we reaped conceptually as a society. He was only a product of his time in the sense that it exacerbated his condition. Like, argue about whether black people have a low IQ all you want, but I find it fascinating to put myself in the shoes of Lovecraft's protagonist and hear him describe New Yorkers as another species. The fear and disgust is captivating because the mindset is so different from the modern one. His racism arrived not from ignorance, but from isolation and fear of what he didn't understand. Because he was fucked up.So what if the Mental Disability that gave us a large portion of sci-fi was also coincidentally offensive?
>>67216593>what Lovecraft would have done with something like the Chernobyl IncidentWhat exactly is lovecraftian or nightmare-inducing about it?
>>67234062it is the color from outer space you mongoloid.
>>67234062The notion that live can just stop in an instant? Imagine how Europe felt watching Europe and Russia decide if there'd be a tomorrow. Powerless. Meaningless. At the mercy of things that could end their world at a whim.
>>67216241>You thought those were the horrorsYou plucked a hair from the back of a dog, and now its gaze is upon you.
>>67216241Cthulhu struggled in a war with some of those other jebronies, so why cant me with all my big muscles and massive guns take down that squid faced chump
>>67234087> live can just stop in an instant>there'd be a tomorrow> At the mercy of things that could end their world at a whim.What?
>>67216241Nigga Cthulhu was already dead. Being dead is just a moderate inconvenience for a Great Old One.
>>67234121I -said- it's the color from outer space you fuck.Also you missed my obviously more important post.
>>67234121Typo. I meant 'life'.Being European during the height of the Cold War was mostly just doing your best to ignore Russia and America while being aware of the fact that they could accidentally end the world. Chernobyl was an example of a huge oopsie.
>>67234146Nah, it's just blue.>>67234147>Cold WarWhat does that have to do with Chernobyl?
>>67234195>nah, it's just blueYOU DENSE SON OF A BITCH
>>67234205No, this is Patrick.
>>67234147Imagine living in Europe and finding out about Able Archer 83 afterwards? How great must it feel to know that you and the lives of everyone you know could've ended over a military exercise
>>67234239At the moment nobody but the highest higherups of the US military actually knew that it actually was a military exercise. As far as everyone else, including the Soviets and the very forces participating in it, it could be very-real pre-invasion maneuvers, with "exercise" being an excuse to lower Soviet awareness for a bit and the actual nature of it being secret from men on the ground for OPSEC reasons.
>>67233476Bollocks.Robert E. Howard was impressively aracial for his time.Solomon Kane caring equally about the life of a black girl as that of a white and his friendship with N'Longa who is shown to be pretty much the first example of a nuanced shaman in writing and who gets a great speech on that exact topic.The crew of Bêlits ship being shown to have fought to a bloody end even after Conan slated them as cowardly blacks.And of course this pretty clear bit of pointed commentary>A prophet is not sure of honor always in his own land. The people in Ace Jessel’s hometown, with their hot, fierce Southern pride and class consciousness, looked upon Ace as more or less of an upstart, a black man who had forgotten his place. They resented his victories over white pugilists and felt as if the fact reflected on them, somehow. This hurt Ace, hurt him cruelly...He had muslim heroes, black heroes, even a Sihk hero in a time where that wasn't something you did because progressive critics would eat your entire ass if you didn't, quite the opposite. And don't get me started on female characters, the only reason I'm not describing him jokingly as wearing problem glasses and having flamingo-fuck hair is because none of it ever felt forced when Howard wrote.But sure he used the word nigger, so hey, racist right?
>>67234574I mean Ken could
>>67234062>july 1985 - challenger engine fails, nearly forcing mission abort>august 1985 - titan 34D engine fails, rocket destroyed>january 1986 - challenger engine fails, rocket disintegrates>april 1986 - chernobyl blows up>april 1986 - another titan 34D engine fails, rocket destroyed>may 1986 - delta 3 engine fails, rocket destroyedsomething out there protects its secrets
>>67216241in The Shunned House the main characters kill the monster with minimal fuss, retard
>>67229537Fuck it.Kill the god bayonetta style. Kill them because its awesomePunch the shit out of squid boi and crush him between your thighs.Makes him your obedient pet.[/spoilers]
All this talk about Cthulhu as a guy who glares at boats that wake him up early before groaning and going back to sleep makes him sound like some fat, lazy NEET who sleeps in and misses the apocalypse.
do you prefer your horrors to be giant sized and able to walk the earth? or just incomprehensibly large planet devouring monsters?
>>67234867If the most important horrors exist in our reality, it's not Lovecraftian enough. I want my blind idiot gods and I want them now.
>>67234870>The stock market
Has the D&D Essentials Kit been liberated yet?
I actually don't mind being able to harm some Lovecraftian creatures. People deal with existential crisis in different ways and lashing out violently is one of them.Your place in the universe was degraded to that of an animal and now you are acting like one.Especially if in the aftermath one realises that your catharsis is fleeting and that your "enemy" was merely emblematic, and not the root of your inner dread.What is much worse is some HFY "Use science to reverse engineer/understand/harness the mythos", which takes something unique and begins to look more and more like an analogy for nuclear power.
>>67234867depends. some giant monsters are okay. mostly i prefer my lovecraft monsters to be one of two things:>horrible and alien but still basically mundane, evolved creatures. deep ones, serpent people, yig, dagon, elder things and shoggoths fall on the edge of this category but i'm okay with them, especially delta green proto-shoggoths, which i like to imagine having all the traits of shoggoths but semi-permanently stuck in human shape. the old lady who miraculously survived cancer with an experimental treatment, now amorphous and rolling across the floor, wrapping her arms and legs around the nurse who came to check on her, twisting the nurse apart. these things can all be killed, but it may require heavy firepower or creativity>so completely alien that it can hardly be considered a living being by the terrestrial definition. i do mi-go like this, and hounds of tindalos, but the standard definition of stuff like the colour out of space, lloigor, etc. fall into this too. all of the greater Outer beings are like this.my headcanon for azathoth is that it's basically a boltzmann brain, a momentary organization of higher-dimensional Stuff into something resembling a mind. the material universe is a projection of this mind and when the mind breaks down (by the higher-dimensional measures, in the blink of an eye) the universe will cease to exist. the higher powers of the universe act on azathoth to maintain it, because they want to exist. the idea of azathoth sleeping at the center of the universe, creating and destroying worlds with his music, while the outer gods sing to keep him asleep is how normal brains make sense of this fact. azathoth's impetus to revert back to a lower energy state infuses every atom of the universe. death, violence, despair, and madness are echoes of that impetus, the colossal cosmic death drive gnashing its teeth.
>>67235140>>67235046how do you feel about defeating manifestations of elder beings before they make this realm similar enough to their own to manifest?I like to have bits of a creature "pushing through" on larger and larger levels, starting with the little shit, like patterns in dust and bacteria, moving up to pests and eventually humans.
>>67216241>Lovecraftian>You can kill the horrors with giant mechas.
>>67235222Fine, as long as it's humans trying to maintain their tiny nook of the cosmos and not a personal conflict either side. A cow being puzzled by fire ants and wandering away is fine, but treading into "We need to stop this Nyarlthotep guy" crosses the line. IMO if there's ever a human face it should be the cultists who are trying to ingratiate themselves to an entity that really could not care for them on a meaningful level.
>>67235327Well, the entity in question is less of a thinking creature and more of an objective based infectious force.The players would be seeking to dis-assemble the host entity before it could continue doing any more of its work.
>>67235343Cool as its not confounding a plan/plot and more about keeping humanity's match lit.
>>67219971>>67225584>>67225883and y'all othersthanks for salvaging this dumpster thread, nothing like some good lovecraftian lore discussion
>>67231705I don't think that that event would really overturn religions, science, or society as a whole. It'd create new avenues of research and might result in some new faith (or existing ones latching onto it as something from their religious beliefs), but humans would pretty easily classify it and either a) become interested in it (casually, scientifically, spiritually) or more likely b) leave it to other people to worry about and move on.
>>67228747Depends on the story - in some there is talk about the creatures presence disrupting dreams and similar mental activity while in others the heroes' 'insanity' is simply them enacting logical precautions against threats nobody else believes exists...Also, some stories like Charles Dexter Ward and the Thing on the Doorstep do seem to hint at the monsters favouring individuals they consider to be weak willed though I suppose both of those antagonists were more 'sorcerers' than 'monsters' per se...
>>67231522>forgetting based Robert Chambers
>>67229010Well, it spooked Lovecraft for whatever reason.
>>67229999Wow, if authors like Lovecraft and Poe seem terrible to you, you must be a REAL genius
>>67237970Lovecraft was a pussy, he was scared of niggers, oceans and the welsh.
>>67220917Is he nutting?
>>67216241Dunwitch Horror, Dream-quest of unknown kadath, pickman’s model, etc
>>67216593Considering he wrote a horror story about air conditioning and another about how he didn’t understand the color spectrum his head might’ve exploded if he was exposed to modern science.
>>67238047That's because his grandmother was Welsh and it meant his family wasn't purebred Englishmen.
>>67219160Thank you for this unfathomable chuckle
>>67238700I'm very curious how the war would have affected him had he lived to see it.
>>67238734>Wanting to be englishSee? What a faggot.
>>67220182Yes, yes you are. Whatever you do however don’t tell the players if you can avoid it. Consider doing something like inverting the result of each die roll against it or some such.
>>67238700>>67236229What else but weak-willed characters can you expect when the author is so weak-willed and pathetic?So much of what terrified him utterly is stuff that people can comprehend today.
>>67238808Yeah man, of you wrote it, I bet you'd be like "Fuck you, Cthulu, then cuck him by dating his mom!". Fuck yeah, bro, so alpha!
>>67228790Look into Aztec mythology. What you’re describing is essentially their creation myth and the reason they thought the world had already ended 5 times.
>>67230399Unless you give us the exact criteria of a good author no one can prove anything. A hypothesis however accurate it seems cannot be accepted or tested if there is no evidence that would disprove it.
>>67230531For the sake of lurkers who don’t read much: Might I suggest Pickman’s model and the music of Erich Zaan. Both are short, simple, and fun to read through
>>67234861Good damn. You’re right
>>67235046Honestly I think its interestingEven more nuts if in discovering this nuclear power, it makes you discover something even crazier
>>67216241Many of them are just monsters, the only unkillable ones are the outer gods
>>67216241So I take you just haven't read any of Lovecraft's stories then, eh? Because there are tons of them where a well-placed bullet or stick of TNT puts some horror out of everyone's misery.
>>67232706i think a lot of our healthy terror of the ocean has tranferred into fear of the emptiness of deep space
>>67220182Give it something weird like "always crits when it rolls a prime number" Also make sure to use words like squamous when describing it.
>>67220824>where the FBI, literally led by Hoover, storms Innsmouth with a bunch of machineguns and dozens of agents, and basically wipes the place out.Wow that's kinda fucked up, many of those fish hybrids didn't even know about Dagon, and some of them like the novel protagonist were good people.
>>67220196>You are responsible for the sins of the federal government, goyim>Now it's time for your culture and standard of living to go down the drain>If you complain you're antisocialYet the only possible explanation for President Trump is muh Russians, right McCarthy?
>>67241169They need to die just for being fish-hybrids, the part of them that is 'human' is doomed anyway so its more like a mercy killing.
>>67235046Could you be sniffing your own farts any harder?
>>67220132You found your worth in the waking world.
>>67222171Don't know about you but all that fucked-up celeb shit seems a lot more understandable now.
>>67216241>you can't do shit but watch the GM's sadistic fantasies unfold in front of youCthulhu Mythos is a terrible setting to roleplay in.
>>67216289>Lovecraftian horror>When I saw my penis for the first timeFucking terrifying.
>>67242146>Cthulhu Mythos is a terrible setting to roleplay in.It's more that it isn't orientated to group activity, when we think about D&D we think in terms of monster encounters wherein everybody has the opportunity to contribute whereas in the typical CoC 'scene' one maybe two investigators have the potential to acquire productive results.
>>67229226>mfw the GM is overconfident
>>67241036This is a good point. We're very remote now from a lot of our old fears. How likely is a given person to be eaten by a lion, for example? Before aviation, crossing the ocean was the only way to travel to many places. Cities formed on the coast because of the ocean; people sailed on it to trade and to fish. But look at any coastal city today-- what percentage of the population even ventures on the water, never mind has experience hauling things up from the deeps or weathering a storm at sea?
>>67242669true. a lot of people currently only think of the ocean as that large blue thing that we keep throwing plastic into.
>>67216241>death being meaningful in anywayJust play it up my dude, and get them psyched that they killed the big it. Then bring it back and crush them.
>>67231522>August Derleth and others left little to no impact on fiction.Except nearly all the pop culture memes that seem to shit on Lovecrafts stuff, most of that is from after Lovecraft died Derleth fanfic.
>>67234504He was gay as all hell though>Large descriptions of glistening man meat in stunning detail>Oh and there was a hot chick there too I suppose.
>>67232204Was the narration taking on charectaristics of the PoV character without dipping into explicit first person? That happens in a lot of works From Dumas in Count of Monte Cristo to Steve Perry in his friggin AvP novels. It's clearly a racist character so the narration may be dipping into his point of view.
>>67245131Have you read The Moon of Skulls? Nakari, vampire queen of Negari, is described in great detail. I'd also add that a man confident in his heterosexuality wouldn't find anything gay in writing about men in peak physical form. He got a lot of practice from his boxing stories.
>>67233420>mfw the match is struck, a blazing star is born