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>Welcome back to /srg/, chummer
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>Watch your back
>Shoot straight
>Conserve ammo
>Do not buy CGL books
>And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon
>>
First for asking if we have Beginner Box yet

Also 6e factsheet here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZPN1-6xfGD9SV6xD85eaJIWoNq0NcsBdE3CQI8s5rJU/edit#heading=h.h701ncsxs7zi
>>
That's not Shadowrun.
>>
>>67208486
Yes, Mage put it up on Inner Temple a little bit ago.
>>
>>67208641
Why not? It has mages and magic and spells and spirits and enchanted weapons. Surely that is Shadowrun enough.
>>
Churning homebrew idea in my head after reading about the 6e changes to metatype. They say you can point-buy metatype features now, so that got me thinking about how I woulud do it.

Chargen grants metatype points to by metatype features. Features are laid out on interconnected skill trees (or a skill web) with base metatypes at different starting points, so for example Dwarves and Trolls have to spend less points to get BOD-related features (like increased min/max, toxin resistance, etc). Humans start in the center, naturally, and their closest bonuses are examples of human privilege (cosmetic metatype features, free contact are some of my brainstormed ideas).

If you want to be some mutie freak, like an elf that resembles an ork more, you can do that, but it will cost you more points to reach that part of the grid. Metavariants are locked to the extreme corners and are accessible only through taking on the base metatype (which I hope either puts it at a mathematically prohibitive distance for other metatypes, or I could just hard-lock mutations past base metatypes)
>>
>>67208205
I gotta ask: why are you so anal about letting threads archive before making a new one? I'm assuming you're the only one, but if there's more people who feel this way, I'd love to hear why.
>>
>>67208679
That is nice and all but isn't 6th world filled with mythological stereotypes and not mutants who take random aspects from mythology.
>>
>>67208712
Old argument, old thread.
Maybe if you read the past times people explained why you'd understand. But of course, you won't do that.
>>
>>67208712
It's just autism, anon. Common enough among the tabletop community, makes sense an anon on /tg/ would exhibit it.
>>
>>67208667
BladeRunner?
>>
>>67208924
That is just rude, I have never seen any autism on /tg/ although the O/NWoD thread is borderline.
>>
>>67208738
Pretty sure it's both.
>>
>>67208985
I thought you meant 6th edition. BladeRunner clearly has nothing to do with Shadowrun as it has no mages I'm aware of.
>>
>>67208870
Well sorry I don't read every post of every thread. I've never seen the question asked before. When was the last time it was asked?
>>
>>67208870
>Old argument, old thread.
Fuck off with that shit. Some things are definitely worth carrying over.
>>
>>67208679
I'd love to see a readable version of that; I've been thinking of handling metas in my 4e games closer to changelings which seems similar to your idea
>>
>>67208712
Afaik SRG rarely hits the image limit, but at the same time the way it gets updated tends to lead to bullshit where we end up without a srg for 3 days because nobody steps up
>>
I heard recently that 5e is simpler then 4e and so on.
>>
>>67209225
We should go back to working with our fellow cyberpunks in the cybercorperation.
>>
>>67209266
>5e is simpler then 4e
yes
not to be confused with "5e is simpler than 4e" which is generally untrue
>>
>>67209266
There are exactly 3 things simpler about 5e
- Superficially simpler matrix rules
- Armors (which is dumb)
- Essence loss, because you get hit by the full essence loss of all your ware because Hardy is a mage-lover
Arguably character creation because Priority is easier than BPgen and karmagen ends up being the default more often than not
>>
>>67209225
That isn't the case at all. /srg/ lasts for several days, but there is almost always a thread up.
>>
Is it true hacking an ATM used to take hours IRL?
>>
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>>67208657
I don't understand. Where is the temple, who is mage. It's not in the pastebin
>>
>>67209391
I'm not sure it ever took that long but even hacking an ATM in 1-3e would mean playing Tron Dungeon Crawl for long enough to order dinner for the group
>>
>>67209519
>I don't understand
That's obvious.
>It's not in the pastebin
That's only true in the most literal sense.
>>
>>67209530
Why is there a push to play 3e then?
>>
>>67209387
Negative, ghostrider. When anon isn't making new thread while the old one's on its last legs, it can be a full day until a new /srg/ gets made.
>>
>>67209686
Then you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>67209686
If this continues, someone from Cyberpunk 2020/2077 is going to end up putting the thread up for us.
>>
>>67209701
Not that anon. There were periods a good while back where there was no thread for hours, sometimes more than a day. I mostly remember because at one point I said "this is ridiculous", looked up the template, and posted one myself.
>>
>>67209519
Go to the PDF Share Thread, open the OP PDF, and learn.
>>
>>67209750
>a good while back
A very long while back.
>>
>>67209750
Try two or three days.
>>
>>67209608
Because you weren't supposed to play decker if you wanted a smooth game. For datasteal you hired a guy and escorted him and GM threw some dice.

Decker had absolutely nothing to do outside his own little world. The alert levels were better than the binary systems of alert and convergence in 5th.
>>
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>>67208712
There's a lot of super butthurt turboautists in the SR fandom. Most of them will never actually get a chance to play the game, so they try to exert control over their circumstances in other ways.
>>
>>67209608
Nostalgiafags who don't realize that 3e has a shitload of jank despite being the edition with the best lore.

Honestly the decker problem is easy as hell to deal with in 3e, it's called not running a decker. The worst is variable target numbers, those were evil.

Realistically 6th world or 4e's 2050s guide (or even base 4e with some house rule and shit like War! banned entirely) is still going to come out easier
>>
>>67209774
Last week
>>
>>67209762
Your knowledge of the land is great. Many thanks
>>
>>67209866
No.
>>
>>67209847
Not the anon who posted the question, but I've been asking myself the same thing. "I already had a thread ready and was just waiting for the current one to archive, and now you have posted yours!" is a reason I could understand. But you never hear that. Instead you hear... nothing, actually. Just swearing.
>>
>>67209774
Literally last week, you mongoloid.
>>
>>67209926
That's actually been said before. Pay attention instead of making so many meta posts.
>>
>>67209932
Careful, anon, don't cut yourself.
>>
>>67209855
The worst part was DMing combat and having to deal with npc combat pools and variable target numbers. If stats changed for any reason you needed to adjust the pools on the fly.
>>
>>67209958
>If stats changed for any reason you needed to adjust the pools on the fly.
I just assume everyone at FASA spent the 90s high on spice melange because every single one of their games was that janky
>>
>>67209932
In recent history? Do you have a link perchance?
>>
>>67210247
You certainly got used to it over time. Perhaps that's why so many "veterans" are baffled by the fact that some people think 5e is oh so complicated.
>>
>>67210305
Having to adjust to jank limits both narrative and tactical depth. Phoenix Command is a good example of a game where everything is very precise and yet you don't get to do anything.
>>
>>67210305
>Perhaps that's why so many "veterans" are baffled by the fact that some people think 5e is oh so complicated.
I mean I started with 3e and I'm not super baffled; 5e has garbage editing which makes it hard to actually reference rules when entire chapters are out of order in core.

Even when you dumb down armor and warez and cut down on matrix jank, it's hard to recover from that level of bad presentation
>>
>>67210464
Never had a problem with "narrative and tactical depth", no matter if 2, 3, or 5e.
>>
"Welcome to roleplaying in the Sixth World! In Shadowrun, you roleplay as criminals in a dystopian future filled with magic, fantastic creatures, and artifacts"
You can tell from line 1 that this is going to be magicrun
>>
>>67210518
Gotta differentiate yourself from Cyberpunk Red somehow
>>
>>67210498
Their presentation is definitely sub-par, but the actual mechanics aren't that complicated. And presentation/editing is much less of a problem in the German version, which we're using almost exclusively by now.
>>
>>67210498
>garbage editing
This is what weirds me out the most about 6e. If there was one complaint that came up over and over again, it was that their editing and basic quality control was embarassingly bad. Now just look at all the bullshit in the 6e beginner box. And they even fucked up the updated version of NF. Why should anyone assume that the 6e CRB will look any different?
>>
You guys keep talking about the gun DV with regard to lethality, but they also give you (Body x 2) overflow boxes now, instead of just Body. If you take a guy with 4 body, then he's going to need somehow to take 11 physical damage to go into overflow, and 8 more to finally die. Granted they probably won't give overflow boxes to grunts, and the QSR doesn't include bleeding-out rules, but for double-tapping with a weapon that does 3P or 4P that's a lot. A guy bleeding out on the floor has almost as many physical boxes to go as he did standing up, if not more.

>all the threshold examples are for shooting someone
What dipshit wrote this. Attack rolls are opposed tests.

>example street sam has 1 initiative die
No surprise here. Example characters are always terribly made
>>
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>>67211281
>(Body x 2) overflow boxes now
wat
so let's consider that baby example again
lets say that the baby has BOD 1
it's condition monitor is now
[][][]
[][][]
[][][]
[over][over][dead]

in order to one shot kill it you now need 12P damage, otherwise if it receives 9P it just bleeds out
so even with a Panther XXL, you need to somehow increase its damage by 5 WHOPPING P

>example street sam has 1 initiative die
>pic related
I knew they fucked up the example characters, but not by this much
>>
>tfw I'm tempted to add caliber rules to make interchangeability of ammo work more sanely but also half my players have never touched a gun and believe in fuddlore almost as much as the devs

>>67211281
The example PCs in previous editions were bad but still not that bad

Also pic related to your pic
>>
>>67211488
>m tempted to add caliber rules to make interchangeability of ammo work more sanely
But what fun would it add?
>>
>>67211281
In general, we haven't been saying the guns are too lethal, more than it's hilariously underwhelming because of the fact that killing a baby is now almost impossible in one shot and that taking a shotgun, placing it inside of your mouth, and pulling the trigger will never kill someone.
>>
>>67211281
It really sounds like they want more of DnD's "lose all you HP during a fight, get healed back up by your buddies afterwards" mentality in SR. To which I say: Fuck'em!
Also, have you had a closer look at the map? That thing alone tells you everything you need to know about what to expect from 6e in regards to quality control.
>>
>>67211609
I'm still weighing the thought but basically: is being able to feed a range of guns (say Pistol -> SMG or AR -> Sporting Rifle -> Low Damage Sniper) with a single caliber enough of a hassle reducer to make the change worthwhile
>>
>>67211446
>in order to one shot kill it you now need 12P damage, otherwise if it receives 9P it just bleeds out
>so even with a Panther XXL, you need to somehow increase its damage by 5 WHOPPING P
Maybe if you have a firing squad of like, sixteen gangers with assault cannons so they can buy four extra hits for it

What real-world weapons do assault cannons even correspond to? When I google the term, I just get a bunch of fictional weapons and a 40k vehicle.
>>
>>67211688
it's one of these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8HDCm_Ngoc
>>
>>67211688
>What real-world weapons do assault cannons even correspond to?
20mm basically
>>
>>67211688
Portable tank guns
because that's what they are
they are the weapons you strap to your vehicle weapon mount, or give the troll to carry
>>
>>67211627
>taking a shotgun, placing it inside of your mouth, and pulling the trigger will never kill someone.
>tfw no escape from the dystopia

But in all fairness, they're almost certain to have a calledshot(vitals) or somesuch which will probably add like +2 to that. And likely a flechette ammo type, but who knows what that'll do.
>>
>>67211688
>What real-world weapons do assault cannons even correspond to?
None, really. 1e SSC:
>The Panther Assault Cannon, designed and produced by Panther Industries, is your only choice for heavy assault weapon. Firing a stable superplast explosive warhead, the Panther has proven effective against both hard and soft targets. Comes with shoulder-strap and hip-bracing gear for stable fire.
>>
>>67211790
>which will probably add like +2 to that
that's weaksauce
that means that I can take my Assault Cannon (6P), point it straight at my skull, pull the trigger and suffer (8+net hits)P damage.
to kill myself I'd have to at least get into overflow range, which with 3 BOD is 10P, which means 2 net hits
I need two net hits with an assault cannon against my unprotected head to start dying
to instantly die I'd need 8+2+6+1=17P or 9 net hits
>>
>>67211790
>they're almost certain to have a calledshot(vitals) or somesuch which will probably add like +2 to that
But will a downtrodden suicidal sod have enough edge to use that?
>>
>>67211908
you could probably petition the gm that you'd get edge from the world attacking you so overwhelmingly. I think thats a 6e mechanic.
>>
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>>67211733
>>67211750
Imagine shooting this at a baby and it not dying
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>>67211974
Only if your defense rating is 4 or more points higher than the world's attack rating!
>>
>>67212019
if you're gonna neck yourself, don'tcha think it would be?
>>
>>67212030
Sounds to me like you're letting your defense down, ready to get fucked by the world.
>>
>>67212018
>DV 7P
>>
>>67212018
The 2083 remake of 3 men and a baby is surprisingly violent
>>
SR6 First Aid
"The test is made with Biotech + Logic against a thresh-old equal to 5 – Target’s Essence"

Looks like all healing is going to be worse for your Sammy, even nonmagical healing.
>>
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Just started dipping my toes into Shadowrun. I play IRL and i had the 4e core rule book setting on my shelf since before 5e came out. Life happened yada yada and i'm just getting the chance to GM games for a group. We've done several games already and while we all enjoy ourselves despite some of the rules being bonkers. I as the GM have several lingering questions.

1) Hacking. can some one give me a quick and dirty on how it works in 4e? I think i have ot half right but i wanna check.

2) There isn't a SR equivalent to a Monster Manual right? I'm just suppose to make my own enemies stat and gear wise pretty much? Im fine with that but for non-humans like demons, and monsters is there any reference in some splat i could look at?

3) I recall seeing alt combat rules in the core book. How are those compared to the base rules? Do they speed up combat? again its 4e.
>>
>>67212647
I could honestly live with that, if the Sammy at least got something akin of Object Resistance against spells.
>>
>>67212708
>There isn't a SR equivalent to a Monster Manual right?
The Friends & Foes chapter in core has sample grunts and critters. Street Magic has extra spirits. 10 Gangs has more sample gangers. Unwired has sample security spiders for hacking. Pretty sure Running Wild and Parazoology also add beast type creatures.
>>
>>67212730
I wish, but I doubt they would implement something like that
Also looks like Drones get an automatic 4d6 init, so this might be the year of Riggerrun
>>
>>67212730
Ha. Ha. Like Hardy would ever let samurai be good against mages. No, it's just that everything mundane is worse than magic, and the less Essence you have, the worse it works. By the way, the negative modifier to being healed as a mage is gone from QSR, and you even get one automatic hit since your Essence is at 6.
>>
>>67212818
4d6 Initiative, but that isn't going to do shit for them in the long run other than firing first. The raw number isn't going to give you more actions now, it's little gubbins and shit that give you extra minor actions to fold into major actions. So the drone might get off the first shot, but it's probably not going to fire twice.
>>
>>67212863
It is. You get minor actions per initiative dice, so a drone is gonna be at 1 major, 5 minor with 4d6 init dice, which allows it to have 2 major, 1 minor.
>>
>>67212863
Iirc its 1 minor action per die, and 4 minors to a major, so by default literally every drone has two majors.
>>
>>67212863
Come on anon, be better than that.
>The basic Action allotment for each character is 1 Minor Action and 1 Major Action per turn. Players get 1 additional Minor Action for every Initiative Die they have; since everyone starts with at least one Initiative Die, that means most players start with 1 Major Action and 2 Minor Actions.
>Actions can be traded between Minor and Major, but there are restrictions. A Major Action can be used to perform a Minor Action, simple as that. A character can also trade 4 Minor Actions to perform 1 Major Action.
>>
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>>67212790
>The Friends & Foes chapter in core has sample grunts and critters. Street Magic has extra spirits. 10 Gangs has more sample gangers. Unwired has sample security spiders for hacking. Pretty sure Running Wild and Parazoology also add beast type creatures.
thank you! are they in the trove?
>>
>>67211488
Tell me of the fudd lore.
>>
>>67212898
>>67212886
Oh, derp. My bad. Then yeah, lol.
>>
>>67205941

This is the anon that kept asking for the book - strangely enough, my field of study is chemistry. Hi fellow science nerd, I guess.

Muzzle energy is surely measured in KE, no?

In which case by increasing mass and maintaining powder charge you're losing velocity, but since KE = 0.5 . MV^2, the KE of such a round would surely be much less.

According to Wikipedia (so take this with a few grains of salt, and it doesn't normalise for powder), a typical 9mm is 7.5g at 400m/s for about 600J. Typical subsonic is 9.5g, 300m/s and only 420J.

Even if you could mail down the bizarre range as stupid ammo choice, you'd think a) that would get mentioned, and b) they'd pick some other reason because regular 5.45 is still very available according to Euro War Antiques.
>>
>>67212937
Yes, at least one of the trove guides has all of those; Unwired and Street Magic are basically your options books for Mages, Adepts, Deckers and Technos.

Contacts, Adventures and Sprawl Sites also has a huge list of NPC templates but they're pretty low powered iirc
>>
"The caster rolls Magic + an attribute"
SR6 casters are using Technomancer soak now, so their dice pool can go as high as they want
>>
>>67213012
The answer to this is that no one at Catalyst has ever held or fired a gun.

>>67212938
They gave armor piercing properties to a gun that's explicitly an old fuddy-five
>>
How in the hell does Custom Fit (Stack) work? Do you HAVE to wear an item with it? Do you get both the social bonuses? Do you get both the concealability bonuses (if it were say a Berwick Suit and Argentum Cloak)? Can you choose to use the 12 armor if you're stacking it with another piece of clothing?
>>
>>67213012
I attributed the range thing to "ak sight radius but on bullpup scale". Still dumb.
>>
>>67213012
Actually to go further: literally every gun entry in the gear catalog type books, especially GH3 and Euro War Antiques, was written by someone with less gun knowledge than someone who, having lived in an uncontacted tribe their whole life, picked up a gun in a pile of trash.

These are people who made a range of lever guns that's deemed usable by runners, and included a cybermusket in a book for reasons.

Who decided that an obvious kitbashed 1911 was a hammerless gun despite an insanely prominent hammer.

>>67212938
Incidentally: lever guns. And 9mms described with the kind of bullshit you'd expect from a boomer gun board.
>>
>>67213211
It only stacks armor.

It stacks with items from the same maker.

And if you stack anything with a Sleeping Tiger the GM is absolutely entitled to give you the "everyone laughs at your fit" -2 penalty to social rolls.
>>
Just a friendly notice, the following are now available should you need them.

Ka*Ge 0 - 12
Shadowland 1 - 7
Shadowrun Black Pages (in German) 1 - 6

Available on vola /r/xqppmq10
>>
>>67213211
>This characteristic employs all the Custom Fit rules, but in addition these items can stack with other pieces that have been Custom Fit by the same maker, for the same person. The character has to select a specific set of Armored Clothing to have the piece Custom Fit with. The Custom Fit combination then allows the character to use either the base armor or add on the stack bonus for that set of gear.
You buy a Berwick Suit, Custom Fit. You buy a Ulysses Coat, Custom Fit (Stack). You select the Berwick Suit as the specific set of Amored Clothing the Ulysses Coat stacks with. You can now wear the Ulysses Coat on its own for an Armor Rating of 10 (as usual), or as a +3 bonus armor item, but ONLY in conjunction with your personal Berwick Suit. Total Armor Rating of 12 (9+3) and you need at least STR 2 or face penalties. The German version clarifies that "maker" means producer/manufacturer, so you can't mix and match different fashion lines.

The rule only pertains to Armor Rating. When it comes to social and concealment bonuses from clothing I would only apply the highest. Otherwise people get weird ideas like layering several thin dresses.
>>
>>67213084
Damage equals AP in Shadowrun right? There isn't any fuddlore about .45 and getting past armor.
>>67213240
Where are the 9mms described this way?
>>
>>67213562
DV != AP
>>
>>67213240
Wasn't that M1911 caseless?

I don't recall any problems with the Euro War Antiques.
>>
>>67213562
The M1991 has heavy pistol DV and AP, it's less fuddlore about .45 penetrating and more fuddlore about stoppan powah

>>67213609
Most of the guns in EWA are slightly done up 20th century guns so I'm dubious
>>
>>67213762
Eura Wars happened before Shadowrun 1e, which had weapons purely form the 80s and 90s.
>>
>>67212938
The AK is a better weapon in game then the M16.
>>
>>67213845
my question is what the fuck doctrine made 38 round mags the best choice. Speaking of, Yekka, could you give us the capability to choose how many rounds to load into our magazines?
>>
>>67213885
Likely some ratio or percentage increase.
>>
>>67213845
>The AK is a better weapon in game then the M16.
Depends which AK; no fudd would respect a 74 or a 107 and the entires for the 4e and 5e conversions of the Abakan include the usual stoppan powah complaints from jackpointers

Also the jackpointers who aren't fudds are annoying gearheads instead
>>
>>67214094
I'm just seeing text of them complain that the Abakan costs too much.
For the AK-74, they say it's too old.
>>
>>67214191
The usual "it's too old" whining is basically about smartlinks which is only a huge improvement for a bad shooter in 4e, and in 5e basically just boosts overall accuracy which in 5e makes it useless for anyone who isn;'t an olympic tier shooter or using the shittiest guns ever.

Either way the superpro jackpoint sams have a hilarious tendency to overvalue smartlinks
>>
>>67214290
>in 5e basically just boosts overall accuracy
Wireless for +2 dice.
>>
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Did someone say guns?
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>>67214290
>just boosts overall accuracy
??
it gives accuracy and a die pool bonus
it's objectively always a big boost
>>
>>67214401
>actually running a smartgun wireless
You deserve what happens to you
>>
>>67214433
just have a good commlink and decker
>>
>>67214433
>wireless
Not using your datajack to plug in directly.
You do have a datajack, right chummer?
>>
>>67214433
Running silent and with a decent link that's usually worth it, yes.

>>67214462
That doesn't give you the 2 dice though.
>>
>>67214490
Because CGL are incredible assholes, yes.
>>
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So whats a human map?
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>>67214728
Finn Hardy.
>>
>>67214490
>>67214531
Seems I've misread. Oh well, at least I can still eject clips and change firemodes as free actions. Kinda weird that they made smartguns overlap in that area.
>>
>>67214728
I assume someone who has a better grasp of geography than their peers
>>
>>67211488
You seen the Raygun thing? He has 10mm for heavy pistols.
>>
>>67214952
Then why didn't he notice that the map's still wrong?
>>
>>67214728
He has an electrochromic mod in his skin, and always uses it to keep satellite maps or blueprints of the target facility on him like a tattoo

I don't actually know
>>
>>67214728
FB /finn.hardy.27
>>
>>67215136
Also, /jason.m.hardy
>>
>>67215310
That one's not the "Human Map" though.
>>
>>67215342
More like the Human Mistake.
>>
>>67215095
because in cgl's case 'better' doesn't mean 'good'
>>
>>67210556
Stop bringing up the fucking German version. Yes, we all know it's better. No, the vast majority of us don't speak German nor will we Google translate the fucking books. Yes, I am butthurt.
>>
I play 4e, how exactly does weapon accuracy work in 5e?
>>
>>67215803
>he uses pistols other than lugers
>he doesn't personally gas his players for speaking languages other than ZE DEUTSCH at the table
>he doesn't want to hear the prussian glorymarch blasting full volume into his eardrums while stuffing a schnitzel down his throat on the autobahn at precisely 08:00 on his way to a shadowrun at the french embassy where he'll goose-step in perfect time with the gunshots to spark Euro War #N+1

wtf are you even playing shadowrun?? use the german everything anon, or you're not a real Schattenläufer you're just a fake amerikanisch lohnsklave
>>
>>67215934
Accuracy acts as the limit for the shot. In short, you can't keep more hits than your accuracy/limit, so if you shoot an Accuracy 4 shotgun and get 8 hits, you can only apply 4 of them to beating dodge/adding to damage.
>>
>>67215934
It's just a limit on how many total hits you can get with the weapon. For unarmed, physical limit is your accuracy.
>>
>>67215803
You must admit, 5e with one of its worst aspects suddenly poof gone sounds awesome. It also shows that it's indeed CGL's ineptitude that's the main problem here.
>>
>tfw you will never outsmart a dragon
>tfw you will never beat a dragon to death with your bare hands
>tfw you will never pull apart its scales to devour its flesh and drink its blood
feels bad man
>>
>>67216068
What do you mean you will never beat it to death with your bare hands? Trolls can very well do just that. You just have to drop them on the dragon unexpectedly.
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>>67216088
lol, stupid trogs thinking they're stronger than everyone else
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>>67215987
Worthwhile addition: Called shots reduce your pool (and thus your potential hits) while increasing damage or giving other bonuses. A nice way to make sure not to lose relevant hits to accuracy.
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>>67216068
>his GM actually follows the Xanatos, all according to keikaku dragons bullshit rule
your campaign endings must suck up the ass
>>
>>67216100
Have you never seen a loltroll with a base fist damage of rocket going off in your face? Let's just say, even draconic resilience can't hold out against that.
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>>67216155
>base fist damage of rocket going off in your face?
how the fuck do you even get fist damage above like 14? Rockets do like 20
>>
>>67216155
>he plays 4e
hahahaha

still, show me the char sheet
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>>67216182
For adepts: State of Purity literally scales infinitely and you can have a STR of 15 on a troll, so even a MAG 6 troll adept can have a 21 damage fist out of chargen. If you're reasonable and do reasonable things and actually live to the point where you might need to kill a dragon, State of Purity is probably somewhere around 25P and -5 AP.
Cybertroll: Bone Lacing for +3, improved knuckles for another +1, see if you can swing another pair on feet for another +1, genetic optimization for 16 max str. Still 20P at the minimum. Worse than adepts, but what are you gonna do?
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>>67216190
>plays 4e
Whatever do you mean?
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>>67216068
>>tfw you will never outsmart a dragon
You don't need to outsmart the dragon, you just need to outsmart your GM, which isn't too hard if you're not a brainlet.
>>
>>67216269
4e used to give bonus DV for martial arts levels, iirc

Don't know whether that was better than 5e's pure technique in regards to them.
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>>67216232
Oh, there's also the dumbest option in the book, too. Any metatype, adept, Elemental Body, MAG 10 or higher. Voila, you're a fucking firestorm, and your DV scales infinitely. If you SOMEHOW get MAG 15, you're doing 30P (elemental) with -7 AP. Magic is bullshit.
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>>67215980
wait, you can... not... play shadowrun this way?
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>>67216437
Yes, I do recall that. Sorta shitty, but with that base damage, I can't blame them. Half the techniques in 5e are shit anyway, so can't say if it's actually an improvement.
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>>67216232
>>>67216182
>For adepts: State of Purity literally scales infinitely and you can have a STR of 15 on a troll, so even a MAG 6 troll adept can have a 21 damage fist out of chargen. If you're reasonable and do reasonable things and actually live to the point where you might need to kill a dragon, State of Purity is probably somewhere around 25P and -5 AP.
That is actually a complete game changer for adepts, holy shit.

We can finally compare to fully wared out cybetzombie fucks.
>>
>>67216437
>>67216474
A combination of the two would actually be pretty nice. Every rank of a martial art gives you a technique and a +1 to DVs. Nice way to give melee chars a chance.
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>>67216504
You already could, for fuck's sake. Elemental Body did that. And this amount of base damage from fists (or anything, really, aside from missiles and grenade clusters) shouldn't be encouraged anyway.
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>>67216554
who actually wants to take elemental body tho?
>And this amount of base damage from fists (or anything, really, aside from missiles and grenade clusters) shouldn't be encouraged anyway.
porque?
>>
>>67216541
Melee already does the most damage in the game if you build correctly.
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>>67216625
Yeah, with ware.
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>>67216621
Because it turns the game into late SR4. You dodge or you die, unless you have a ridiculous amount of soak dice, and not even all street samurai builds can have this much soak.
>>
>>67216625
State of Purity or Elemental Body shits on 'ware, especially the former. You get both higher damage and AP. Melee with weapons also favors adepts with Critical Strike and weapon foci.
>>
>>67216554
State of Purity's flavor text sounds cooler though.
>>
>>67216668
Was meant for
>>67216649
>>
>>67216668
As someone who just got into the game and never realized elemental body was that fucking broken, this is amazing.

What's the difference between the two? Elemental effect?
>>
>>67216759
State of Purity is STR+MAG for damage, -AP equal to 0.5 MAG.
Elemental Body is MAG x2 for damage, -AP equal to 0.5 MAG as well, and it gives the elemental effect too.

SoP is better for high-Strength builds who usually get more damage that way. Elemental Body allows you to dump strength and so keebs can keep up with trogs in melee damage if they get MAG high enough.

By RAW, the drain on Elemental Body is obscene (each initiative pass is +1 drain value), and State of Purity is +1 drain per combat turn. RAI, they're both per Combat Turn.
>>
>>67216668
To reiterate - out of chargen, 'ware is usually better, because you can stack more STR and mods. If your game lasts any amount of time enough to get your adept to 8 MAG, 'ware starts losing its' luster, and at 10 MAG, it's lost the race.
>>
>>67216862
Sounds like they should be mutually exclusive. State of Purity makes it sound like your soul is merging with your body and Elemental body is just a magic field around it. The .5 addition to SoP also doesn't make much sense in comparison to elemental body's power point cost, which has more bang to its buck. If SoP were STR+MAGx2, I'd understand the price and want it to be raised up to 2 adept points
>>
>>67216940
They are mutually exclusive, because they replace your melee damage with their statblocks. However, Elemental Body basically costs 1.5 too, because of the Elemental Strike prerequisite which is pretty shit on its' own.
>>
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>>67216958
Ah, that explains that. SoP's description is some awesome shit, though. Makes it sound like you're becoming dual natured.
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>>67216989
It's basically going super sayian. Makes for some cool-ass ork adepts.
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friendly reminder about SoP that people seem to forget
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>>67216989
Elemental body is better by virtue of having an elemental effect.

STR+MAGx2 sounds horriffically broken but also appropriate for the kind of badass super souls saiyan description it has. 2 points would be a good price for it or even 3
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>>67217012
Doesn't really matter. You lose Critical Strike and maybe Striking Calluses if you're doing the Prototype Transhuman Awakened bullshit, but that's about it.
>>
>>67217028
The important part is that part of it basically explicitly states that it works well with Elemental Strike but does nothing with Elemental Body.
>>
>>67217025
3's too much, just put it to 2 and up the drain a little more. Making it ultra-saiyan level power bullshit but dangerous to yourself.
>>
>>67217040
So ES + SoP = 2 adept points and ES + EB = 1.5?

Elemental body is still more cost efficient. Kind of a bummer.
>>
>>67217057
ES requires Killing Hands, too, so 2 total for the entire power tree.
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>>67217040
Well, yes. But I don't think bumping it up to STR+MAGx2 would solve anything at all, because it's gonna break the game right out of the game. 2 or even 3 points for having an almost guaranteed 20P fist attack (even as a human or elf) at -3 AP, available at your discretion? Why are the guns in this game, again? When the damage difference begins to ramp up this much, distance becomes less of an argument and more of a way to NOT get oneshot by something like this.
>>
>>67217075
But for ES+KH+SoP it'd take 2.5 PP. Then again, SoP is immensely better RAW and for anyone who has STR of 7+ and doesn't plan on having a MAG of 10+.
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>>67217083
What's the best gun damage, then? I think something like an Assault Cannon with Special Modifications rank 3 for damage, so a Panther XXL does what, 20P with -6 AP?
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>>67217125
probably a Mitsubishi Yakusoku MRL (that's a rocket launcher) firing a burst of HE rockets.
Disgustingly expensive, costing several thousand nuyen per burst and more than 10k for the gun itself, but it'll probably obliterate anything it touches
>>
>>67217000
Ork's don't have a lot of hair, though.
>>
>>67217221
Eh. Vegeta had a pretty rough hairline, but he didn't let that stop him. Anyway, you can get hair grown for 0 ESS and 200 nuyen, so that's not an issue.
>>
Super Soul Magic Ninjas Vs Lesser Dragons

who'd win?
>>
>>67217256
You need to get some more AP for dragons. If you can get something like -10 AP and 25P+ on your fist, you're pretty much set for lesser dragons. Win initiative, and Kenshiro that scaly ass.
>>
I feel like the HBS games' interpretation of body in relation to health points, while cliche, is kind of better than the body rolls. Really makes you feel like those points paid off when you get grenaded in-game where as you'd just die in a tabletop campaign. Their armor system could've used some more work, though. I do feel like the crit system more than made up for the healthpoints. Act like an idiot and leave yourself open, an 8 damage SMG could hit you for 32 damage with a dual burst 2x crit.
>>
>>67217291
fully maxed out penetrating strike + Super Soul Adept ap enough?
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>>67217328
Eh. If you're a troll, you'll have -10 AP at 4 PS+12 MAG. If your STR is also 15 at this point, you have 27P and -10AP, so I'd say go for it - the toughest lesser dragon has 18 hardened armor and 18 BOD, and 17 phys condition monitor. Your base hit does 27P vs 4 autosoaks and 26 soak dice (9 soak on average), which means you're not exactly one-shotting it with one net hit, but five or six will do the trick.
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>>67217302
Of course, soak and defense rolls take the more prominent roll and make things more realistic so getting an AR unloaded in your face would kill you rather than take half of your health.
>>
Has there ever been an explanation as to why HK didn’t give up on the G11 like they did irl?
>>
>>67217404
If you're taking a full auto to the face in the HBS games, you're flanked and they're probably at close range to land every hit. They'd get crits up the fucking ass after riddling you with new assholes on your face and in your brain.
>>
The recent Judgment game have me asking this question.

Have you ever outsourced killings to a contact? Someone to handle the dirty work for you not because you are a wuss but to make sure it doesn't actually trace back to you.
>>
would you bang a dragon?
>>67217396
>>67217291
would you fuck it after beating it into submission?
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>>67217621
Dude, this amount of damage kills a dragon, not beats it into submission.
Also, no. Not even if it shapeshifted into a nice humanoid form. Have some damn standards.
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>>67217644
>Also, no. Not even if it shapeshifted into a nice humanoid form. Have some damn standards.
but it's a dragon, who wouldn't want to ride a dragon?
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>>67217660
That's how they get you enthralled, you dumbass. The only good dragon is a dead dragon.
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>>67217681
when was the last time a dragon fucked a metahuman?
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>>67217757
We've had this discussion already, and nobody knows, because they just erase all evidence of it.
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>>67211281
It's BOD/2.
>>
Looking at 6th edition release schedule so far got me thinking if it is just CGL incompetence or is the tabletop gaming in general stuck to archaic practices. There is zero engagement with the players in the design process, designer communication is just hype instead of ellaborating on the decisions and reasons behind it, there are no numbers to run through or any indication that there was any kind of statistical analysis on either the system mechanics or the player preferences/feedback, editing and general presentation is still super sloppy. There isn't even proper community hub nor any talk about supporting creating and sharing user made content.

Is this really how you produce entertainment in 2019? The market is more competitive than it has ever been and rpg needs a community or it just won't fly. Reminds me of shit like Lawbreakers and Anthem on vidya side.
>>
>>67212708
>1) Hacking. can some one give me a quick and dirty on how it works in 4e? I think i have ot half right but i wanna check.
lol

>2) There isn't a SR equivalent to a Monster Manual right?
lol

>3) I recall seeing alt combat rules in the core book.
lol
>>
>>67217507
I don't see why you couldn't but you'd basically be contracting that contact to do your dirty work, meaning payment or favor for a favor and discrete murder would warrant one hell of a favor
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>>67218679
No, it's just CGL. Despite despising D&D 5e and V5, they did their homework, they put out playtests and betas, they put out surveys about what people liked and didn't, etc. The end product is shit, but that's because people in general are shit-eaters, and that was the shit they asked for.

CGL didn't do that.
>>
>>67218795
I meant that I despise D&D 5e and V5, but their developers did the work.
>>
Hey. Designing runs for my homebrew campaign and I'm looking for ideas for some late-game runs. Ideally these runs would involve breaking into a corporate arcology or otherwise running against serious corporate muscle. Bonus points if it ends with the Johnson betraying the runners. So far I've got

>Players are hired by Horizon to free one of the band's in Wuxing's K-pop stable, M-Love, which is made up of a fairy, a SURGE catgirl, a foxgirl shapeshifter and a fawn centuar.

>Runners are hired by secretly SK johnnie to grease a fixer trying to retire on a corp's dime by selling them all his secrets.

>MCT hires runners to sabotage the test flight of an Ares prototype that uses a pseudo-magical engine

>Horizon hires runners to grease Diddlebug, the premier inflitration rigger in North America and a legendary shadowrunner, because he mainly uses his awesome abilities to spy on their starlets and release their nudes on the Matrix.

>An old triad hires the runners to break into MCT's servers and release information connecting higher-up execs to yaks.

>Wuxing hires the players to break a unique Spider out of Neonet custody - a genetically-enhanced gnome adept whose adept powers boost their LOG and hacking abilities - after the gnome messages Wuxing to ask for an extraction. Unbeknownst to the players, the sider has message every other member of the big ten asking for an extraction, and has hired her own team of shadowrunners to free her from her extractors and escort her to a life free from corps.
>>
>>67219238
>>Horizon hires runners to grease Diddlebug, the premier inflitration rigger in North America and a legendary shadowrunner, because he mainly uses his awesome abilities to spy on their starlets and release their nudes on the Matrix.
noice
>>
What is Arleesh plotting? She hunts powerful foci and other kinds of top tier magical artifacts. Dunkelzhan said she didn't require anything of the world so could that have been referring to her obsession with powerful magical artifacts? No one seriously buys that she's the one dragon besides Feureschwinge who doesn't want to accumulate wealth? She is one of the youngest Great Dragons and doesn't seem to have anything going for her but magic artifact hunting. Who's to say she isn't plotting the other great dragons' downfall?
>>
>>67219284
Cheers. I imagine Diddlebug as being like 2D, but with fewer social skills and more misogyny. Giant murder machines are replaced by highly camouflaged fly-spies. Diddlebug has flown so many of his tiny drones down tops, up skirts and under covers that he's become Scorched from suffering dumpshock so frequently.
>>
>>67219346
I can picture that run ending with Diddlebug joining Horizon to prevent anymore peeping by making sure he's the one getting all the nude and outsmarting your runners.
>>
>>67219322
I think you just gave the homebrew guy a decent last run idea.
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>>67219363
You underestimate how much Horizon fucking hates this guy. No-one is allowed to profit from the sexual exploitation of Horizon's teenaged starlets except Horizon.

>>67219377
My campaign ends with the players crashing Zurich Orbital and then fighting Lofwyr in the resultant crater. Encountering a smaller dragon would be an interesting prelude to this.

Actually, now that I think about it, one of the ideas I had for a run was to have a weird eccentric who collects cursed artifacts hire the runners to grab one from somewhere particularly hostile, such as the bowels of a Wuxing storage site, or a Puyallup Tamanous warehouse, or something. I could have Arleesh secretly be the Johnson.
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>>67219432
>My campaign ends with the players crashing Zurich Orbital and then fighting Lofwyr in the resultant crater.
fucking wut
>>
>>67219432
I thought elder dragons weren't statted because you aren't supposed to be able to bring them down.
>>
>>67219507
4e has stats for some. Though they're fucking dreadnoughts and their magic is ridiculously bullshit, so you still can't realistically bring them down, but the stats are there.
>>
>>67219450
The players get hired by Vlad, a card-carrying revolutionist policlubber and castro-wannabe. Vlad is someone who hires them a few times to do funny drek runs for things like defacing a statue or assassinating the character of a KE commander. Vlad drops out of sight mid-campaign right as the players start getting hired by corporate Johnsons, last seen after the he hires the players to sabotage a Neonet subsidiary that included a "give-us-10%-of-all-your-income" clause in its thousand-page terms and conditions scrawl. KE shows up to his door after that and he goes underground.

He re-appears to hire the players for the campaign finale, destroying Zurich Orbital and by extension, the Big Ten themselves. Part the way through the assault on ZO, Lofwyr flies up to try and stop the players. He tries to personally hold the station in orbit, but just ends up being under it when it falls. The players, who survived the fall by hiding in an exec panic pod designed to survive re-entry, then fight a badly wounded but vengeful Lofwyr in the burning ruins of the Sixth World.

>>67219507
I'll stat him then. I need him for the epic finale.
>>
>>67219591
Check Street Legends for 4e if you want some idea about how OP Lofwyr is. Keep in mind that 4e has DVs at 1/2 of 5e, same for armor.
>>
>>67219607
Cheers, I'll check this out.
>>
>>67219591
You know what? For a glorious campaign ending I like it! Nice one!
>>
>>67219591
fucking communists, i hope lofwyr roasts your crew's asses
>>
>>67219632
Thanks. I like to end with a bang. My DnD campaign ends with the players fighting a 15,000 year old monster lich in a temple to forgotten gods within the barren remains of the ancient elven empire.
>>
>>67219591
The only real issue other than big time gmpc taking players for a ride is Lowfyr actually trying to save the big ten 10. He knows the system is unsustainable and has made plans for its fall.
>>
>>67219683
Dragon King Lofwyr when?
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>>67219710
He's already king of Saeder-Krupp.
>>
>>67219647
Cyberpunk has "capitalism is bad" baked into its bones anon, thats why its cyberPUNK. The main reason the Sixth World is a terrible place to live is because corporations have zero accountability and unchecked power. Which is why I find the players destroying the Big 10 to be a thematically appropriate end to the campaign.

>>67219683
This is definitely an interesting take, but I'd rather have Lofwyr fight and die to protect his hoard (ie Saeder-Krupp) because it makes for a more satisfying conclusion to the campaign.
>>
>>67219676
It's a bummer when they then go
"MAN that was great - I want to continue with the same characters...."

I did that End of the World campaign end with the destruction of Oerth (Greyhawk -AD&D) and the ushering of the Dark Sun campaign

But they wanted to play the same characters - who had died heroically....

After months of peer pressure I gave in and gave them a shitty psycho intro of their characters reliving key points of the huge campaign and then some major bad guys started working with them as "resistance" that will "free them" from the fake reality...

Woke them up in a Shadowrun campaign ala Matrix where their minds where being tapped as NPCs in a huge VR MMORPG....They weren't happy...

Some of them still hate me for that....
>>
>>67219754
I know, but thats how you know they enjoyed the campaign. You just gotta take that creative energy and use it to make the next campaign equally as epic.
>>
>>67219751
Anarchy is worse and after the corps are gone Petty kingdoms will take their place.
>>
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Last thread, there was some stuff going on about matrix in 5e and going up against Host firewalls.
>>67208311 and >>67208148 for example.
>Please read the matrix again, there are things in the host itself you have to deal with that are not devices, so they get to use the Host stats.
The argument here was
>it's better to hack a host remotely rather than being on site

So, since I'm relatively new, I'm taking a look at it.

>personas, devices, PANs, files, host, or a mark
>Personas can't be slaved at all, so don't get WAN protection, unless it's the IC or the spider
>once you're in the host, you have a direct connection to all devices and so bypass host firewall
>PANs can't be slaved to a WAN since it's not a device
>files DO get host protection, slightly over 2x the host. HOWEVER you can never directly access a file because there's nowhere to plug in, so there's no benefit on being present
>marks done by the host or IC DO use host attributes

So basically, once you've got your one mark on the host and entered the host (which you can edge and just keep retrying by resetting if you fuck up), you can proceed to do exactly as much shit as you can if you were literally on the site, because once in the host all the devices are easy to hack, personas are easy to hack whether onsite or offsite, and files get full host protection whether you're onsite or not because you can't plug into files.

Other than the initial hack on a device to get a mark on the host, why do you need to be present at all? To get shot at like a pleb?
>>
>>67219773
Not really? I mean there's already a bunch of governments who run things just fine. A big part of my campaign world is the fact that none of the national governments really have much power or influence - megacorps deliberately accelerated the breaking of regional powers like the US, Russia, China etc into smaller blocs in order to prevent them from interfering in the corps rise to power. Its why so many megas hate hate HATE Amazonia, because its powerful and because of the threat to their power if any other national governments follow its lead.
>>
>>67219751
Well considering our big conclusion was feeding an asshole vampire to a Centipede spirit and then blowing up like then blocks to contain said spirit (and framing allies of said vampire for everything) I guess there are different levels of expectations about satisfying conclusion.

I personally hate railroading with passion and start my campaigns as pure heist games in some volatile political clime and if players make interesting enemies I build the story around those.
>>
>>67219824
Okay, petty dictatorships since most countries are corrupt as fuck.
>>
>>67219828
I still improv a lot depending on what the players like and who their characters are. This is just my plan for the campaign finale.
>>
>>67219853
I'd never plan a finale because you won't know what interests players several months from now and I don't want to jump through railroading hoops like forcing players to take a job or hauling their ass into space or expecting them to survive any part of it. Too many pieces to allign.
>>
>>67219828
>>67219880
2D storytime campaign ending never
>>
>>67219880
>I'd never plan a finale
>I'd

Anon I know its hard to understand for someone who's never done it but GMing is a lot of work. I like to know how I intend a campaign to end before I start it, it stops me from having to figure out a satisfying ending campaign at the halfway mark using a bunch of NPCs based on memes.

itt. a GM who's given players a purely open-world setting and had them flail around for multiple sessions trying to figure out what to do.

>>67219894
If I can get the late-game of this campaign sorted and get a bunch of players together I'd probably storytime it to be honest. I've done some writing before and I liked the Trout storytime enough to make a crack at something similar.
>>
>>67219894
>tfw you will never become friends with a dragon like Locke did
>tfw you will never Leonize like Wildcard and 2D
>tfw you will never go out like a boss like Sensei did
>tfw you will never honor sensei like Dervish did
feels bad man
>>
>>67219942
I meant is that I'd never plan the conclusion before it starts to become likely that it is needed. I've noticed that the shit I plan usually goes down within limits of reason but sometimes things do get out of hand and the prepared material is better kept loose collection of setpieces you can shuffle than a rigid timeline.

I come from hexcrawl and it is pretty much the only way I know how to write material.
>>
>>67220021
Fair enough. Thats kind of what I'm planning with my campaign, a set of loose setpieces (the runs themselves) shuffled around depending on the players personal stories. Its what I'm doing with my DnD campaign currently.
>>
>>67219778
Generally using high enough level hosts that remote hacking isn't viable makes everything a massive chore especially if your decker is less than 20 dice subhuman. Those same dicepools you use to prevent access slow things down with every single file you try to find, copy or edit and buff IC to levels where they can easily brick a deck or smoke decker in single lucky hit.
>>
>>67220386
That's actually pretty reasonable. I wonder how one could somehow make in-host decking not as annoying with higher Host ratings while still not a cakewalk...
>>
>>67219778
Most Hosts that actually hold any meaningful paydata tend to be not connected to the matrix. They are secure in some faraday cage behind a ton of security guards, and if the corp needs to retrieve data from them they do it with atuhorised personell via an offline physical data storage that gets transported via meatspace.
>>
>>67220560
>In host decking nost as annoying
The simple solution would be to give it seperate stats once you're inside.
>>
>>67220631
>Those same dicepools you use to prevent access slow things down with every single file you try to find, copy or edit and buff IC to levels where they can easily brick a deck or smoke decker in single lucky hit.

But all of those apply to deckers on site because files STILL get host firewall even when you're in the host and considered directly connected directly to all devices. So you're fucked either way.

>>67220386
So basically, throwing out all of what's in the book about "hosts being accessable all through the world" and turning every data request from thousands of people all round the world into having to call someone up and ask them to literally plug in a usb to get it for data that may need to be instantaneously present? Ok, got it.

And that just means that if you just want to hack the cameras to prevent the spider seeing your team you don't need to be bother being present at all too when it's not a zero zero ridiculous host layout like that.
>>
>>67220677
No not every data request from thousands of people. Data that is supposed to not be available via matrix at all.
Things like secret corp plans, prototype research notes that are supposed to be only accessible from the research facility etc.
>>
>>67213012
i'm the physics anon who did the calculations which gave the huge grain number, i realized the problem is the assumption that you would use the same powder loading, the correct assumption would be same chamber pressure, since heavier objects have more inertia, it's slower to get moving, hence you have the same moles of gas from the burning powder in a smaller space with the same temperature, hence higher pressure so it would damage/lower service life, if i did the proper calculations which would have been a pain in the ass since i should have to look at the pressure curve of 5.45 and whatnot i guess i would have ended with 9x39, also becouse it would be difficult to actually make a 5.45 bullet with that mass since 5.45 is quite small
>>
>>67211688
ww2 antitank rifles? 20 mm autocannons?
>>
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>>67220744
I'm glad you demonstrate you a: don't actually read the rulebook and b: probably never play. The restricted files and shit that is not called up on a regular basis isn't accessable to hackers anyway.

Any corp who wastes money on putting entire hosts offgrid are retarded, because there's these things called "host archives" that do exactly what you want to do with your bizzare matrix-locked hosts but comes as standard feature on all fucking hosts.

On the plus side, you still need a team to go in and do the actual shit that needs doing, but the decker still doesn't need to be there if he's not the face, because it still doesn't get any easier to get marks on the file and edit file to copy it to steal the file.
>>
>>67220884
I gotta admit that this specific part of the rules escaped my memory, but I also gotta add that this is just another case where CGL doesn't read their own game as well it seems, because off grid hosts are a fucking thing in some of their modules, which I've been playing recently, thus my mention of it.
>>
>>67218391
>It's BOD/2.
Source?
>If your Physical Condition Monitor fills up, you are also unconscious. Fortunately, you have a certain amount of Overflow damage to keep you from dying right away. If a character receives (Body x 2) boxes of Overflow damage, they are dead and gone, beyond the reach of any kind of healing.
>>
>>67220982
Shit, my bad. Thought we were talking about condition monitors, not overflow.
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>>67220884
Less snark, anon, you can't afford it. Archives are still accessible to hackers (see DT) and offline hosts are a thing. Badly written, but they are a thing (see KC).
>>
>>67219591
>Vlad
>funny drek runs
maybe its just because I've been playing payday 2, but this sounds like you've been playing payday 2, anon
>>
>>67221426
That's what I was thinking, too. Then again, Payday 2 is a good inspiration for Shadowrun if you're not too hung up on black trenchcoats.
>>
>>67221099
>access to the archives
Does anyone even do Matrix foundation runs in their games? Have you ever seen that happen?
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>>67219778
>Other than the initial hack on a device to get a mark on the host, why do you need to be present at all? To get shot at like a pleb?
That really depends on the specific situation and on your goals. Files in hosts are actually pretty secure. It's quite hard to get them out of there, and you WILL be noticed (Crack File is an Attack action). As you already said, slaved devices are a different kind of beast, and they're only protected by the host if you're not in the host yourself. So at first glance being present doesn't change anything but one roll (marking the host). The big thing is that there could very well be devices that aren't slaved to the host (smartguns and other personal gear slaved to commlinks, etc). Assuming those are running silent you have to be within 100m to be able to interact with them at all. Also, you're saying
>(which you can edge and just keep retrying by resetting if you fuck up)
This takes time and edge. And you might very well need that edge if you're interacting with a proper host (reminder, Local Corp Hosts are Rating 7-8, Secure Sites 9-10). So while being present might already pay off for a datasteal (since it makes one test way easier), it's really worth it if you're there to open doors for your team, control elevators and so on. Especially if you're hopping in and out of the host. Get physical access to a slave, mark it, thus gain a mark on the host, enter it, mark another device, interact with that slaved device remotely - maybe while in AR and changing location, leave the host to avoid detection by the spider and IC, maybe reboot, rinse and repeat. That way you never have to interact with the frankly absurdly high host attributes. Compare that to the decker who tries to do their job from home. You can edge your way into the host, but you won't be able to interact with the silent things on site that aren't WAN slaves, and if anything goes wrong you basically need to relog which means you need to mark the host yet again.
>>
>>67221473
Oh yes. Both as a player and as a GM.
>>
>>67219778
>>67221481
>Files in hosts are actually pretty secure. It's quite hard to get them out of there, and you WILL be noticed (Crack File is an Attack action)
I was both short on time and on characters, so I didn't mention it, but there are ways around that issue. Basically getting authorized users to help you, with or without their knowledge, and most likely against their will. If you're interested let me know, I might be able to expand on that at a later point.
>>
>tfw people complain a bunch of the megas are too samey
>tfw two of the trillion dollar companies irl are literally just rivals in the electronics market
>>
There is no shadowrun 6e.
>>
>>67222411
>implying there's a 5e
I disregard anything published after 2010
>>
>>67222411
There's only Magicrun 1e.
>>
>>67222411
Why do people think Shadowrun was published in english?

And who is CGL? I thought Pegasus made SR
>>
>>67222728
>CGL
Catalyst Game Labs, the people actually behind the game right now.

>Pegasus
Just doing the german translation. While they output their own supplementary content, they don't have any influence on the core rules besides minor fixes and clarifications.
>>
>>67223182
wooooosh
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>>67214374
Yes! :3
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>>67223182
SNAP
>>
>>67218715

Well when the equivilant of 90k USD for a regular assassination (with everything from disposal, sourcing weapons and informants) to 900k USD for a high profile government/corporate hit with all the problems associated with it, it wouldn't be surprising you pay someone to do it for you.

The guy they hired was a corrupt Lone Star type who was a police informant turned killer with one of the biggest on screen kill counts to date
>>
I'm gonna play an ogre
What's the stat of junk food in the sixth world, I know meat is all expensive but how is corn doing?
>>
>>67223680
About half the corn belt is in Sioux so I assume it's still a fairly big deal for their economy.

It's probably the same price range as basedshit and krill meat.
>>
>>67223182
Why is there a post in the thread that's just static
>>
Got a question guys. A player of mine made a character in Chummer. He has two Synthetic Cyberarms, both with Strength 9, but his actual strength attribute is 1. Because of thsi, Chummer says he has a modified strength value of 4 (averaging the limbs, I'm assuming?) The CRB says cyberlimb unarmed DV is (STR)P, but then Chummer says his unarmed damage is only 4S. That's using the entire body for the unarmed damage, not just the cyberlimb.

So my question is this, should his unarmed damage be calculated by his entire body strength, or just by the strength of his cyberarm?
>>
>>67221481
That's fair enough, running silent non-host devices would need to have someone on site.

But you can hack devices from inside the host anyway with a direct connection. So at that point all you need is a line to your teammates and a camera feed, or any other method of tracking your pals through a building. It's probably easier for them than hauling your body in VR or you getting huge maluses in AR from sneaking or dodging bullets.

Well, there are some reasons at least, so thank you for that.
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>>67221658
>Basically getting authorized users to help you, with or without their knowledge, and most likely against their will.
If you can expound on that I would like to hear. Is it just them copying a file to their commlink?
>>
What's the best Shadowrun alternative mechanics set?

My group wants me to run Shadowrun but I'm not going to touch the trash heaps of 4/5/6 and they weren't interested in playing SR3.
>>
>>67224639
likely it's making them give you a mark on a file
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>>67224581
Strength of the arm.
Chummer needs a human brain to sanity check it, sometimes. If it's doing something that you can't find the rule for, it's probably defaulting to another rule. In the case presented, the actual damage depends on the limb being used, so if the player tried to kick something (assuming natural legs), it would do 1 damage. Chummer - rather than calculating damage for ever limb - just sorta goes, "ah, fuck it, call it the average."
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>>67224581
His unarmed damage should be calculated with the STR of the arm. By the way, make sure to set chummer to use 4-limb averaging, because 6-limb averaging is stupid (skull and torso are listed in the limb section but aren't limbs, they also don't have their own attributes). Also, the STR of his cyberarms won't help with his physical limit, which acts as the accuracy for his unarmed attacks.
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>>67226159
>skull and torso are listed in the limb section but aren't limbs, they also don't have their own attributes
Say hello to my headcannon.
>>
>>67226345
how the fuck can you raise the strength or the agility of a skull
>>
>>67226398
I assume the machinery extends to the neck when you get enhanced strength and agility.
Point is, for the sake of limb averaging, cyberskulls and cybertorsos qualify as limbs, and start at 3 STR 3 AGI. 5-limb averaging with the torso makes the most sense, as trying to lift above your head with strong arms and a weak spine will simply break your back, but no one will fault you for doing 4-limb, because it makes playing a cybermonster a bit less expensive.
>>
>>67226345
Yeah, your headcannon and head canon are both great. Skull and torso do have capacity, but neither STR nor AGI. If in doubt, check with the Germans.
>>
when making a character should I bother with speciality ammo types(like gel and APDS)?
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>>67227155
I always get a few APDS rounds for if shit really hits the fan and at least a fair stock of Gel rounds because imo they're the best way of going nonlethal (and it's better to be nonlethal where you can)
Gel rounds in particular are also really good if you're not primarily a street sam since it gives you a good chance to knock things down which lets your street sams be more effective
>>
>>67227155
Character creation is the best time to get anything high-availability.
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>>67227315
unless you have a good face! I'd rather pay my face +10% to get me an 18F gun than spend 10 karma on it
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>>67227155
Unless you're facing Hardened Armor (spirits), Ex is usually better than APDS. Gel is amazing and unless you really don't care about casualties should more or less be your standard ammo. It doesn't do anything against barriers or drones though.
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>>67226398
Your head starts to look like this.
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>>67219346
>TwoDee
There's a blast from the past.
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>>67227551
A good face can make restricted gear a trap option cery fast, but shit that's at the availability cap is often way easier to get out of character creation than from nagging the face early on
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>>67229176
ah, right, restricted gear goes up to 24
yea, fair enough, even with a pretty decent face it'd be hard to get something at 24 consistently unless it's some ULTRA minmaxxy burnout dryad adept with exceptional attribute: CHA
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>>67221491
I prefer not touching the foundation at all and instead just use layered hosts and files. It fixes every problem in the book, as the lower hosts aren't publicly visible, the dice pools become less punitive (while IC become more murderous) as you go lower and there is a reason to go on site because if you find a device slaved to the lower level you get to skip multiple hosts instead of just one (as marks bleed upwards).

Foundation raises its own set of questions about magic computers and role of Renraku and other datastorage corps if all the data just backups safely and trivially and can't be erased by normal means (and in openly hostile paradigm possibly not at all). Also I am not aware if there is anything about how regular users interact with archives, how long it takes to save or retrieve file, how is true owner decided (and when), is every version of every document in the Foundation or do newer versions replace the older ones and so on.
>>
Why are keebs such whores?
>>
>>67229400
Your ordinary elves are actually descendants of Ancients' sex slaves.
>>
Have you had a look around lately? Reddit, the official forums, everything is on fire. People are beginning to see and they're speaking up. I like it. Fuck CGL.
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>>67230547
The fire rises
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>>67230547
I'm currently reading this trash fire:
>https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29520.0
I'm not sure what amuses me more. The amount of brainlets in there (stuff like "it takes more than 5 minutes to determine situational and environmental modifiers in 5e" - paraphrased, not a direct quote) or the users so far up CGL's ass that they're actively defending even their most retarded design decisions. Not to mention Volbrecht. Looks like he'll need his mom again.
And quite a few of the current comments on plebbit could just as well come from here.

>>67230635
And rightfully so.
>>
>>67230813
>https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29520.0
>4th edition D&D was simulationist
Good god...
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>>67229400
With how fast orcs age, would they literally be 30 year old boomers?
>>
>>67231002
Do you even know what a boomer is?
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>>67231002
Orc aging is relative against a human life expectancy at 65 though
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>>67230813
>The amount of brainlets in there (stuff like "it takes more than 5 minutes to determine situational and environmental modifiers in 5e"
That depends on how lucky you are with the editing; combat at least is where the index says it is in the CRB
>>
>https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29520.msg518854#msg518854
Holy fuck. 6e's matrix guy can't math.
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>>67231108
What, the 7? I think that's a typo.
Unless you're referring to the way he send to think the odds are the same.
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>>67231234
The 7 is correct, I'm talking about the latter. There's a post by Hobbes further down (page 7?) which explains why Volbrecht is a tard.
>>
This is a shit heap. I worked on a homebrew RPG system where I proposed something similar to these advantages/disadvantages and the whole crew vetoed it. With good reason, in retrospect.
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>>67231272
>The 7 is correct
Oh, this is a fun numerical coincidence. He said "15 AND 8 to 9 AND 2" those number work with 6, as was the example of the previous poster. However, it could easily be misread as "15 TO 8 and 9 TO 2," in which case, the 7 is correct. It works both ways. It's like a mathematical pun.
I love puns.
>>
>>67230547
>>67230635
are you telling me that tabletop gamers are rising up?
>>
>>67231396
Someone stat Komi-san in Shadowrun
Anything <6e
>>
You know you live in weird times when you read a thread and that cunt Aronson appears to be one of the reasonable ones.
>>
>>67231399
>inb4 CGL calls it gamergate2.0 and declares everyone nazi
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>>67231531
The "what are you looking forward to" discussion on plebbit already revolves around virtue signalling. But the actual problem is simply that CGL are fucking bad at both game design and editing.
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>>67231576
Even plebbitors seem to only regard metatype changes as good. Which is kinda true and kinda false, too. Being unable to pick a troll unless you wasted a B priority was fucking dumb. But removing racial stats is also dumb, because there somehow will be trolls who have 2 STR and can't lift their own weight out of bed.

The easiest way to do this would be just deleting the metatype priority and replacing it with "special attributes", so you can either invest in magic or be an edgelord, while metatypes cost some amount of karma (humans instead gain some karma to represent their advantages). Then again, CGL wouldn't know design if it bit the whole office and pissed in Hardy's eye.
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>>67231698
>can't lift their own weight out of bed.
That's never what it measured you moron, otherwise a STR1 human or elf wouldn't be able to get out of bed either
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>>67231749
And neither could my STR 1 legal loli oppai gnome
>>
Honestly, I don't think Catalyst cares. I'm mostly upset that they stop printing books for game stores and I have to wait for two months after Gencon to get the latest books from them. Last time I talked directly to them about it and it got fixed, but I've not gotten anything since Dark Terrors came out.
>>
>>67231749
Your bait is bad and you should feel bad.
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>>67231890
>I don't think Catalyst cares
You don't say! That's the core of the problem.
>>
>>67231891
>hurrrr u r bait
You need a strength of 4 to lift the average adult elf comfortably
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>>67231749
A STR 2 troll is gonna be weaker than the average human, and for a 300 kg hunk of meat that's an achievement in itself, considering it does have to exert some basic force to move around and thus stimulate the muscles.

STR 1/BOD 1 humans can still lift 15 kg by the rules, while probably weighing at about 55-60 kg themselves. By that same conversion rate, a troll with minimal parameters would have to be able to lift 1/4th of his body weight, and that's around 70 kg at least. Surprisingly, a BOD 5/STR 5 troll manages to do exactly that.
>>
>>67231890
They don't have to because between brand name and HBS doing SRR they'll keep printing cash as long as they don't do something as retarded as Arbeit Macht Frei 2: This time in Buchenwald
>>
>>67231890
Have you considered NOT GIVING CGL YOUR FUCKING MONEY?!
I mean, come on.
>>
>>67231932
As long as you have a STR of one, you have enough to get out of bed and move yourself around. You just can't life much more than the cloths on your back. Y'know...the hacker.
>>
>>67231890
Printing books for distribution isn't very profitable anymore, most companies don't do it.
>>
>>67231948
I don't need your permission to have fun with a world they have fun writing. I've been playing since 3rd and I'm just happy they keep writing and adjusting it.

I mean, they're on the West Coast, so the influence will be there. They've done their best to actually keep it out. It's why they do get my money, much to your dismay, apparently.
>>
itt: morons think the problem is with politics

Weisman and co are a million times the sjws that you think the mormon fucks who run CGL are, and pretty much the only reason your precious fucking game still exists
>>
>>67231980
You just have to do it right. Pegasus has a softcover CRB for 10 bucks and they're selling like hot cakes. Granted, the contents of that book are actually worth something, as opposed to the shit CGL puts out on the regular.
>>
>>67231993
CGL aren't "West Coast", you goddamn brainlet. Not that that would have anything to do with the availability of printed books.
They're bad for Shadowrun and will continue to. And I'm saying that as someone who's been at it for longer than you.
Have fun with the game. Read and play. But don't give CGL your money. And no, this isn't about politics.
>>
>>67232074
The parent company, InMediaRes, is in Washington

Don't know if CGL has offices of their own. Wikipedia doesn't list a location.
>>
>>67232098
>Don't know
It shows.
>>
>>67232098
>is in Washington
Fuck's sake they're in the far exurbs of Seattle, not Bellevue
>>
So are we writing our own version of Shadowrun rules AND lore any time soon or....
>>
>>67232098
Gonna look up where Topps is registered now? MDP/Tornante? Most of the people involved are actually from flyover states and the south, with some like JMH in and around Chicago.
>>
>>67232074
If you're near Indianapolis, it does. Once summer hits, Catalyst stops shipping out books because they want to save them up for Gencon. It happens every year like clockwork, you nimrod.

And I think Catalyst does good work with Shadowrun, so I'll keep giving them money. The metaplot alone is enough to keep me invested. They've done well to make the setting relevant and make it easier to get into it while keeping the depth and complexity for those that look deeper into it.

I have to ask for just how long you've been with the series to hate on them, considering FASA were such sellouts before Catalyst.
>>
>>67232165
Now that is great bait. Chapeau!
>>
>>67232138
Everyone who would still care probably plays in the 50s, 60s at most, either with older edition rules, remixes like FATErun or Sixth World, or arguably 4e.

Basically the thing is for anyone who isn't new to SR there's already a whole bunch of Shadowrun that's good enough.
>>
>>67231108
>>67231108
I think I got an aneurysm reading that thread

it took me 3 minutes to find an excel sheet and show that reducing the dice pools by an equal amount favours the side with more dice (79.1% chance to 88.3% in that example)

I don't understand how people can give this little shit about something they're making
>>
>>67232165
>CGL is good for SR
HOLY FUCKING SHIT!! Unironically commit suicide.
>>
>>67232366
This is hilarious and sad at the same time. Just goes to show that RPG designers in general and CGL in particular can't do basic math if their life depended on it.
>>
>>67232366
Ineptitude, ignorance, Dunning-Kruger, "learning on the job".
>>
>>67232366
Yeah, that "same dice penalty means equivalent probability shfit" thing was a real doozy. They don't even know what makes their own system's base mechanics unique from most other systems.

I guess that's why they wanted to "simplify" 6e, their brains can't even grasp basic math concepts.
>>
>>67232366
>If you yourself are too stupid to understand the system you're working on, the impulse to dumb it down is kind of understandable.
Not mine, but I liked who that was phrased.
>>
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>keeping up the brand
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>>67232138
I mean I'm working on a ultra faggy homebrew and I'm sure others are as well. I can't see /srg/ actually collaborating on anything in way that creates something usable. There are just too many differing ideas on what Shadowrun is or should be and I can't see any one in particular rising to dominance over the others. The best any of us can arrive at is mutual hate of CGL but that doesn't make a system.
>>
>>67232444
Pretty much. I'm working on my homebrew as well, but I figure a lot of /srg/ won't like it.
>>
>>67232335
>>67232366
>it took me 3 minutes to find an excel sheet and show that reducing the dice pools by an equal amount favours the side with more dice (79.1% chance to 88.3% in that example)

I'm terrible at math and I know sometimes what looks like "common sense" to idiots like me isn't true statistically, but if two sides have different amounts of dice and they both lose the same amount of dice then of fucking course it hurts the side that already had fewer dice more, how the fuck is that not immediately obvious? Sweet Jesus.
>>
>>67232442
I get your point, but reused art is hardly a new thing. The 5e version of NF already had the same picture.
>>
>>67232472
It's also a much smaller print area with crushed text (and less text)
>>
>>67232470
I'm basically a lib arts major who hasn't done math outside of TTRPG odds calculations for years, and I instantly cringed when I read that post of his. Fucking hell, why are these people so incompetent?
>>
>>67232458
Mind giving a run down? I'd like to hear about what others are working on.
>>
>>67232496
Readability definitely went down with 6e. At least for me. Also, why use so many em dashes when your chosen font obviously doesn't support them? It's almost like noone over there has any experience with editing or layout...
>>
>>67232508
>>67232470
understanding the probability distribution of dice pools in SR is something that just comes in naturally as you play and understand the rules. the devs don't understand the balance of dice pools and they're treating them like d20s with normal distribution
>>
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>>67232610
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>>67232524
Well, I'm keeping 5e as a base, but:
>Combat
Modifiers streamlined to work like action movies - the only thing that matters is the scene. There are no running modifiers, for instance, nor attacker firing from a moving vehicle mod, because action heroes don't really care about that. Light/glare/visibility/range still in place. Furthermore, all modifiers that aren't wound mods and fire modes/called shots are just +2 or -2, no fiddly -1 or -3 stuff. So light stages up from -2 to -4 to -6 instead of 1-3-6, for instance.
>Magic
No longer scales infinitely. You get a cap of 10, which can be reached with 4 initiations, and the fifth initiation gives you either the ability to shuffle around adept powers or something for mages I don't really have an idea yet. Metamagics (not PP) can be bought at 15 karma each after your first initiation. Initiations give PP, so adepts end up with 15 PP. Power prices are reshuffled, so you still have some place for utility powers and cool shit even if you max out physicals.
>Spirits
Can't summon a Force above your MAG. Energy Aura and Engulf nerfed to be less idiotic/oneshotty.
>Matrix
Streamlined outside of hosts. One roll to hack a wirelessly-enabled device, you can give it a command in the same action. Hosts are still a minigame, since otherwise there would be very little Matrix combat. Still working out how to not make high-rating Hosts a ton of stats and low-rating Hosts cakewalks. Massive fluff changes because 5e Matrix fluff sucks magic dick.
>Vehicles/Rigging
Drones have hardened armor and overflow boxes. Less dumb crash rules. Vehicles actually have listed speeds instead of dumb-fuck ranges CGL invented for 5e.
>Augs
Nuyen costs somewhat lowered for "classics" like low-rating Wired Reflexes. Raw BOD+ augs added for both cyber and bio. Significantly lesser essence costs on most stuff to let streetsams actually be Adam Jensen or a half-assed Raiden without needing deltaware. Double essence costs for Awakened/Emerged.
>>
>>67232696
A lot of your tweaks are just standard house rules (capping spirits at Mag is a thing I remember from 4e) but this

>Mag caps at the augmented max

Is a thing I'm surprised doesn't get done more often
>>
>>67232940
Honest question: How many characters with more than MAG 10 have you seen? 5+ initiations. Raising MAG from 6 to 11. That's tons of karma and downtime, even if you don't do anything else.
>>
>>67232940
Yeah, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. 5e has a solid mechanical base with dicepools and so on, it just needs to be less fiddly and suck less mage dick. If you don't have to check tables for specific modifiers, that's good enough - just keep two rules in your head: firing modes are (bullets fired-1), everything else is a +2/-2.
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>>67232970
The fact that you don't even need that much MAG to be a munchkin says a lot about the state of things.
>>
>>67233055
So, none? I certainly haven't seen any myself. I'm just asking because you said you're surprised you don't see that house rule more often. Oh and I did the math. 5 initiations plus MAG 6 to 11. That's 95 karma and 5 months or 20 weeks for the initiations (assuming you nail all the Extended Tests on your first try, which gets less likely the further you get) and 225 karma and 45 weeks for the MAG increase. 65+ weeks of downtime and 320 karma. And that does happen too regularly at your table? Or at any table?
>>
>>67233136
Well, if my current game was more regular and more about shadowruns instead of 1/2 shadowruns, 1/2 personal stuff, then by the end of the year I'd have 250 karma or so. In a year of playing. So a long campaign can definitely see those things.
>>
>>67233154
Theoretically, yes. But you haven't seen anything like it, in all the years you've been playing?
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>>67233175
Seeing as I've been playing for less than a year, no, not really. Come back in 2020 and ask that again.

But I think the question about why isn't this houserule used more often is less about PCs and more about NPCs with their weird-ass double-digit MAG?
>>
>>67233175
Admittedly never outside bullshit character sheets for Greats and Immortal Elves so fair point, plus street games afaik often just don't have initiations
>>
>>67233154
>I'd have 250 karma or so
Which would bring you roughly three quarters of the way there. And what about the required 16+ months of downtime? And you wouldn't spend karma or time on anything else? This is not a real issue, anon.
>>
>>67233219
>more about NPCs with their weird-ass double-digit MAG
Dragons gonna dragon.
>>
New thread, anyone?
>>
>>67233260
As far as I'm aware, the standard Shadowrun protocol is 1 or 2 runs per month, and the rest is downtime, so while you're saving up karma for that, you can fit training times right in.

And note that I said "in a year of play". So what about a campaign which runs for two years? That would mean I'd have 500 Karma. And three years? About 700 at least. Seeing as my previous game of choice ran for about three and a half years, this might very well happen, which is why I said "check again in 2020".
>>
>>67233310
Will do. At that point you will either a) still not have seen a single MAG 11 character (because shit like that simply doesn't happen), or b) have done everything in your power to make it a reality, which would mean a worse experience for everyone involved, and would still not make a house rule like that necessary. But at that point you'll know that yourself.
>>
>>67233310
>And three years? About 700 at least.
Heh. Yeah. Make sure to tell us how that turned out.
>>
"Magicrun isn't real" anon is really grasping for straws.
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>>67233370
I am currently sitting at 130 Career Karma from 8 months of play, half of which hasn't been about shadowruns per se. Even if that keeps up for 3 years, then it's still gonna be 500+.
>>
Honestly, what if you just capped Magic at 6 and made mages grow through their other means, like increasing skills, foci, initiations, learning new spells, etc?
>>
>>67233410
Not much. Less dicepools for spellcasting, maximum Force stuck at 12, that sort of thing.
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>>67233377
Magic definitely has problems. Way before you reach MAG 11 or some other theoretical bullshit. How many of those characters have you encountered? How surprised are you to see that "hard cap at 10" is not a house rule that's being used more often? The reason it's not being used is not that MAG 11 wouldn't be broken (that happens way earlier), it's not used because it simply isn't a thing that people actually do.
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>>67233402
Great anon, great! Give it some time and please make sure to post that 500+ karma character once you get there!
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>>67233410
Considering how very few of those have significant exponential costs, it wouldn't amount to much.
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>>67233410
IMO capping magic in the low teens with initiations (say 10-12) is better if you cap magic and spirit force at MAG.

Hard capping MAG at 6 either means you're completely removing anything above Force 6 or letting the most egregious part of Magicrun happen
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>>67233719
Capping magic Force at MAG actually makes qualities like Death Dealer have a purpose outside out Direct spell spam, so...might be a good idea?
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>>67233719
>>67233839
But how often does that actually happen :^)
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>>67233882
My point was less "but high magic can happen" and more "the biggest abuse with magic is being able to hit double digit force with only magic 5"
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>>67233410
does anyone even get above magic 6 as a PC aside from taking exceptional attribute?

all the best progression options involve foci anyways
>multicasting with a high force spellcasting focus
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>>67234038
you mean, out of chargen? initiating is insanely valuable and lets you buy more mag
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>>67234118
And you can initiate six times before you have to raise MAG. That's +6 on drain resist tests, masking, all that shit.
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>>67234135
>>67234135
also, metamagics and arts

initiation is broken af if only I knew how it was supposed to work
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>>67234391
>how it was supposed to work
arcana + int (new initiate grade, 1 month) test
costs 10 + (3 x new grade) karma to get
increases MAX (not current) magic by 1, something to do with metaplanes (who care) and 1 metamagic of your choice
it's really that simple
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>>67234416
And most metamagics scale with your initiate grade, so initiating as much as you can (grade 6 is actually a good point to stop) is still profitable even if you don't plan on getting MAG 7+.
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>>67234416
one metamagic per grade?
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>>67234437
Yep.
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Is it better to take adept points in initiation as a mystic adept or actual metamagics?
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>>67234682
up to you
keep in mind if you're going STRICTLY by RAW I think mysads can only get pp through initiation but I rule that they can continue to buy them post-chargen for 5 karma after increasing magic
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>>67234682
If you're using MysAd just to be a better meatspace mage, then metamagics are the way to go. In any event, taking Centering/Adept Centering/Masking is a smart idea, but afterwards PP can provide you with more powers.
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File: Mr_shakedowna.jpg (135 KB, 1200x675)
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135 KB JPG
How do you feel about recurring NPCs who are obviously using a different method of advancement than is available to PCs?
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>>67235055
Elaborate. What method of advancement is there aside from nuyen and karma?
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>>67235090
well, in mister shakedown's case, he uses nuyen, but he invests it directly in himself instead of getting cyberware or gear.
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>>67235103
Oh, you mean...he absorbs money and gains power directly from that? Is that something like it?
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>>67235145
yeah, that's how he do.
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>>67235152
Well, in that case..that doesn't really work for Shadowrun or other games where everything that's "on screen" is presumed to be available to the players. If you have an NPC with a weird power PCs can't access, they're eventually gonna ask how it happens and why they can't do that.
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>>67235160
Eh, that's not really true though. I mean, NPCs aren't really built with the same rules as PCs.



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