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>Welcome back to /srg/, chummer
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>>
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Thread question: Going by what's been shown of 6e, what, if anything, would put it back in your good graces? Because I can't without irony think of anything that'd help. Fucking RIP my 2nd favorite archtype because these guys are fucking retarded.
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>>67182725
>would put it back in your good graces

there are some good changes, all overshadowed by changes that are absolutely bugfuck retarded, and bugfuck retarded in ARES way.
>>
>>67182725
I genuinely don't think anything can.
>>
It isn't actually hard to reintroduce soak, just up weapon damage, take look at the ware and stuff. If average attack rating is 10+ average armor 4 to 6, you add body and you need to beat the opposition by 4 it was never going to be a big part of the calculation anyway.

It comes down to other parts of the book, if I can get away with just doing something to armor and initiative it is already less fiddly than 5th.
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>>67182853
They’re going to reintroduce soak after two or three supplements and it’s going to be awkward as duck.
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>>67182880
Thinking about it the easier way would probably be fiddling with the condition monitor, that way I don't have to rewrite every piece of gear. Gut base 8 to 1 or 2 and we are back on the track.
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>>67182725
Bringing back proper initiative.
Fuck D&D.
>>
aaaaaaaaah
I'm GMing a game tomorrow and I'm not getting any ideas for a run
aaaaaaaaah
>>
>>67183220
When in doubt, Food Fight.
>>
>>67182880
>awkward as duck
quack
>>
Have you ever had a 2D last run-esque last run?

Was it as awesome as his or just fucking amazing?
>>
Last I asked last thread, does Cardinal System Conversion Anon have something to show ? The project sound interesting.
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>>67183582
None of my shadowrun games lasted past 3rd run ;_;
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>>67184061
Thats not a shadowrun problem, thats a GMing problem chummer
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>>67183220
>>
>>67184494
Holy fuck, this is an amazing idea mine, thanks
>>
>>67184494
>>67184569
this, holy fuck these are so adaptive
>>
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>>67184494
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>>67184494
Love these....already used 3 of them since I found it last year!
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So what other teams of runners inhabit the world? Who do they get hired to counter-run against and who gets hired to counter-run against them?

So far for my campaign I've got:
>The Red Hands
A Barrens group with Vory and Halloweener ties made up of one Rigger with an attack Dongle and three omegaware Street Sammies. A cheap, thuggish group specialising in wetwork and paracritter wrangling.

>The Witchfinders
Three Riggers and a small army of drones. Started by out-of-work blue-collar riggers and a rich kid in their parent's basement. They mostly do bounty hunter work tracking down blood mages.

>Dad's Army
A group of old retired army vets who took up shadowrunning when their pension cheques bounced. A hindu conjurer, a combat technomancer and two K10-chugging supersoldiers.

>The Tourists
A group of wage mages and adepts who secretly run on the weekends to escape from the endless toil of their stepford lives. A social adept, a hermitic magician, a zororastrian conjurer and their decker babysitter/face.

>Frond. Aimes Frond.
A very skilled social adept. He pretends to be a loner but is secretly supported by an off-site decker and an invisible Fairy magician.
>>
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>>67184695
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>>67184080
All GMs got fed up with shadowrun rules and we all agreed to play something other than shadowrun tho.
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>>67183084
>>67182725
I cannot forgive them for gutting initiative. The ability to drop someone's initiative, use initiative as a resource and having multiple rounds per turn was actually great and helped tactical things up. Dropping it for "your turn my turn" shit is pathetic.
>>
>FELIX "LOCKE" RAMIREZ was given sanctuary by the Corporate Court and extradited to Vienna, where he worked in magical R&D developing combat spells. He also taught at the University of Vienna and kept a lasting friendship with the Great Dragon, Schwartzkopf

>DYLAN "WILDCARD" CADBURY founded a Eurozone fixer network called Condotierri 15, referring to the Italian name for a mercenary soldier and the minimum sentence in the United Kingdom for bank robbery. C15 maintained its own ranks and heirarchies independent of the existent Eurozone running culture, predominantly focused around financial monitoring and large-scale heists and thefts. His lieutenants, BELFAST and LUCA, maintained his cover identity as an Italian foreign minister, the better to approach their eventual goal: robbing GOD.

>PETER "BEND" COLBY married his girlfriend Emily and joined the Tir Diplomatic corps as "external advisory and troubleshooting." In the years to come, any runner doing business with the Tir Princes would come to know him by a different title: "Mr. Johnson."

>JONATHAN "MOTHERFUCKING DERVISH" RED-EAGLE/ GARRETT "AMERICA-SAN" JORDAN was eventually reunited with his real parents, a lower-middle-class couple living in Denver. The identity that he had come to represent, however, was very different from that which they associated with their son, and so although he came to involve them more in his life, he always felt distant. He maintained a public identity as Ares' chief aboveboard company man, first into the fray in every conflict Ares fought in his natural lifespan. Alongside him were his trusty camera crew and his sidekick, "Little Texas," whom earned Dervish's admiration for real when he killed noted arms dealer and international criminal TAKA with a motorcycle. When he eventually began aging, as a distinct counterpoint to his elf teammates (or Wildcard and TwoDee, who leonized), he chose to grow old in honor of Sensei, eventually taking on his own students.
if only nothing ended
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>>67184947
If nothing ends, it rots.

Just be sad 2D didn't continue storytiming.
>>
>>67182725
I'm going to be honest, at this point I don't think Catalyst could do anything to get me to buy a new edition of SR made by them because I've felt burned about them for the whole decade.

Realistically I'd probably still move goalposts even if they came out with the most mechanically perfect iteration of Shadowrun, which it won't be so that's not even a likely hypothetical
>>
>>67184834
Still a you problem.

>>67182725
With CGL at the helm? Nothing.
>>
Will HBS come back and save Shadowrun with vidya design?
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What racial slurs do elves and dwarves have for humans?
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>>67185003
The irony here is I still play 4e (although set in the 60s so I can just ignore books that came after the Coleman bullshit), but I've briefly considered 3e since I don't think I can sell my group on 2020
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>>67185166
Most of the broadly all-human slurs are lame ("round ears" which is basically dumb because Humanis takes it as a point of pride) and a bunch of the ones that would work would also apply to trolls and orks

>>67185155
At the very least HBS would mean putting back people who've been working on it since 2e-3e in the driver's seat
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>>67182725
The change of initiative I don't mind since we did that as a house rule for our games anyway.

The issue I have is the proclamation to keep stuff simple for new players is either a total lie or the person behind this move is unaware of how more confusing the rule system is getting for said new players.

This point I'm just waiting for a pirate copy to float around safely so I can copy paste shit that works for a homebrew and call it a day.
>>
>>67183220
A megacorp has hired you kidnap a girl. They won't say why. Turns out she is selling her gamer pee and it has mystical properties they want to cash in on.
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>>67185199
>At the very least HBS would mean putting back people who've been working on it since 2e-3e in the driver's seat
That explains why its so Shadowrunny. Also, why the skill system works so goddamn well.

Really wish spells scaled, though.
>>
>>67185166
Blind deaf and dumb.
>no native low light or thermographic or astral vision
>pretty shitty stat caps
And trogs just call them puny or manlets.
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>>67185166
Dwarves: Fivers since they are mostly 5 foot +
Elves: Stooping to their level would just make them more human. A racial slur for elves against human is them snidely looking at the person then chuckling to themselves.
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>>67185768
So humans are kind of like the white guy of the setting? Like, they have racial slurs but none of them are really offensive because they don't give a fuck?
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>>67185802
Pretty much. Yet like white people, humans are easily offended by words that are not offending whatsoever.

Like when you call someone cracker.
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>>67185826
That's offensive to crackers everywhere.
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>>67182480
Has anyone bought the beginner box yet?
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>>67183220
just copy the plot of Fifth Element :)
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>>67185958
But that's your answer to everything!
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>>67184834
Yeah, I feel that. I love Shadowrun's setting, schizophrenic mess that it can be at times, but I really wish there were a simpler system for it.
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>>67185802
Yes, but we do our best to steer the metahuman racial issue away from the obvious ethic analogy because, 1) ethnicity still exists, and 2) that's how you get books like The Complete Trog. Metatypes have the potential to add a whole new dimension to discrimination issues, and "flavor" the dystopia in ways other cyberpunk settings can't. I remember a year or so ago, a couple anons had a discussion about whether you were better off trusting a trog from your country, or a human from another. Since then, that's sorta framed my understanding of racism in the sixth world.
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>>67186329
I feel like it would also vary tremendously; like, the JIS hates both probably equally, the Protectorate regime in Calfree otoh explicitly uses token non japanese humans to prove his tolerance, while otoh I suspect you're better off being a chinese meta than a foreigner who won't call your triad boss auntie in the chinese states
>>
No Future received the 6e update. Add that to the list of things we're missing, i.e. the box. Maybe the original donor is still around?
>https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/264740
>https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/282220
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>>67185625
Torn from the headlines!
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So my team just kidnapped the daughter of a Yakuza boss. They snatched the from her apartment knocking out her bodyguards while the decker disrupted the cameras but on the way out they had to drop the disruption on the cameras, good thing they were wearing masks. Now the team is hiding out in the suburbs till the heat dies down so they can hand her over to the Johnson.
What can I do to track them down quickly and fuck with them?
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>>67187512
Ask them where they are?
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>>67187552
Let me rephrase that, what can the Yakuza do to track the team down?
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>>67187580
Astral signatures, leftover DNA evidence, RFID tags, SINs, and cyber shit.
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>>67187580
Did they get rid of the girls cell phone? Or disable it? Its still giving off a signal and they can zero in from the cell phone towers.

OR...you can have a Seoulpa Ring find out about the kidnapping and make a counter offer to the runners to give her to them so they have something over the Yaks.
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>>67187580
>>67187626
>>67187645
Would it seem out of the question if the Yakuza have the girl's DNA on file and can just use a mage to track her down with Astral Tracking?
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>>67187715
Why do they have her DNA? Is her dad super fucking paranoid or something?
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>>67187744
Probably this is not the girl's first rodeo, they could just go and grab her tooth brush or hairbrush.
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>>67187781
Tampons are much more viable for DNA honestly.
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>>67187715
>Would it seem out of the question if the Yakuza have the girl's DNA on file

They don't even need to already have it on file, they could just get their nerds to take some hairs out of a leftover comb or something, and pop it into a biometric reader or some similar device. Maybe dig through her trash, check her bed, there are a lot of options.

Her DNA would also be on her SIN somewhere. I doubt even her dad would have access to that though.
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>>67187781
well, you're kind of fucked if you don't have a ward or some kind of magic tracking protection
>>
Have the Yak goons show up

Let the runners sweat about how they were found

Pick the answer they like least to be the truth.
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>>67187790
Gross but effective
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>>67187580
Did the cameras catch the plates on their vehicle? If they don't have morphing plates, the Yaks could pretty easily pay off someone for gridlink data.
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>>67187936
>vehicle
real runner niggas wall run
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>>67187512
Maybe just leave it like this?

If you go for the magic tracking route, you are basically telling your players "never ever do snatch&grab missions. However careful you are, i can hand-of-god invalidate it anyways".
Which is sorta stupid.

>>67187645
"Come up with a counteroffer" is a great idea.
Go this route.
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>>67187969
But who's the Johnson they're fucking over?
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>>67188073
The johnson is some Irish mobsters
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>>67188680
oh, well, it might fuck with your rep a bit for crossing them
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>>67188680
>>67188713
Indeed. If it does remind the runners of their rep when it comes to the counter offer, but give good implication too that the Seoulpa WILL do what it cans to get the edge.

Fromt he way it sounds, you already got a nice battle royale between three different organizations.

Irish Mob who thinks they got an up over the Yaks, the Yaks who are pissed, and the Seoulpa Ring who is pissed at the Yaks but is jelly the Irish got this idea first.

Lone Star is gonna have a field day figuring this mess out before they even consider who the runners even are.
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>>67188713
They kinda are already doing that. See the girl they kidnapped is the former girlfriend of the Decker. So the team made deal with one of the Yakuza Soldiers that guard her to lead the Yaks to the drop off point.
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>>67188811
Then why the need to ask about tracking?
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>>67188857
The Soldier is doing that on the dl so he and his little gang can get more clout.
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>>67187894
>japanese goons show up
>players assume it's yakuza
>it's actually someone completely unrelated coming there for unrelated purposes
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>>67188935
I love this
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Would reduced armor work better as a consequence for a glitched defense roll, or soak roll?
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>>67187512
Did they sanitise her before bundling her in a car? does she have any jewellery or anything which could act as a kidnapping alarm?

If so - she does, and she manages to set it off in a moment when she's left alone, bringing in a Yak hit squad to try to get her back, and burning whatever safehouse she's currently at.

This works better than the Yaks just magically tracking your team down (which would be discouraging, because the players couldn't prevent it), because they'll learn a lesson about future kidnappings - sanitise the target, and maybe have some shielded location to hold them, so that even if they have implanted communications (or w/e) they still can't broadcast a distress message out.
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IT WAS NOT A MEME
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>>67189371
>no more armor to soak even if it's completely unnecessary and absolutely retarded change! Now if you are armored you get more PLOT if you are armored heavier than your attacker!
>gotta leave some soak for mages tho ;)
Amazing, CGL.
>>
>>67183582
Not quite as big, but it was definitely similarly climactic for the campaign, and definitely a similar clusterfuck (albeit on a smaller level). The short version was that it was a large-scale heist against NeoNET that also ended up involving the Boston mob, Mitsuhama, two dragons, and a clash with some other runners.
>>
Chicago... home...
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>>67189371
>breaks the whole armor paradigm
>drain value 3
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>>67182725
I started on 4e and have never bought Shadowrun products outside of Harebrained's games. Still see no reason to.
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>>67189222
This is why I use my faraday cage as an arbor for red ivy.

And fresh tomatoes. Yum.
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>>67182725
I started with the anniversary version of 4e, moved into 5e and between 5e and 6e I'm thinking I'll learn 3e and call that good for a decade or so at least.
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>>67183582
That run was fucking anemic. I know you're reading it all right now and raving about it, but it was really bad.
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>>67189684
Real talk, I'm kind of confused about the overall issue. I'm new to SR 5e, but if I'm reading this right- The armor spell's drain is a flat 3 no matter what? And you only have to make 3 successful rolls to resist drain?
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>>67189371
So now "Power armor" is a Quickened Armor spell.
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Another spicy one for you, lads. Elf magic snipers > dumb guns fuckers.
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>>67189815
Yes, it's a flat 3 no matter what, so you ignore the drain if you roll 3 hits on your drain resist, which can be about 12 at chargen without much issue, as we can see from the pregens...
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>>67189815
The issue is that armor doesn't give soak in 6e. But MAGIC armor somehow does.
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>>67189905
Heavy Pistol base damage is 4, a spell's is 3?
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>>67190097
I'm almost willing to attribute it to sheer incompetence of CGL.
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>>67190114
Nah, Execptional Attribute Magic and mage starts with 4 too, he can also eat few more drain for two extra damage.

After few initiations magic outdamage everything but at chargen the strongest weapon is Fist.
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>>67190114
Yes. But get this. Magic improves the base damage. At 7 magic it's a heavy pistol with no range limitations and with added elemental effects. At 9 magic, your spells do the same base damage as a sniper rifle, too.
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>>67189371
I assume this stacks with Increase Body spell but Bone Lacing still doens't give soak.
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>>67189905
>Elf magic snipers
In any other edition it would be dwarves because elves have actual hand eye coordination
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>>67190259
No Bone Lacing in the quickstart, sorry. But I'll also give you this abomination, too.
>2.4 meters high as a troll
>5 BOD
>6 STR
>Almost no augs
CGL isn't hiding their contempt for street samurai now. They made the poster boy a manlet.
>>
>>67189905
Finally, blaster mages are getting the respect they deserve
>>
>>67189905
Wait, WILLPOWER+reaction?
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>>67190326
Yes. This time around, you resist all spells with willpower. Even the ones you're supposed to dodge.
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>>67189815
The issues are that armor doesn't add soak dice, but this spell is called armor and adds soak dice, and its drain is negligible. It just reeks of magicrun being pushed even harder.

>>67189905
>(Magic 6/2) = 3 DV base
>drain value 5

>pistol = 4 DV base
>+2 DV for SA burst fire (?)

However it looks like ice spear does less damage than a pistol and hurts the caster. How much does 'amp up' add to damage again?

>permannently reduces armor rating
This looks really bad, but it's not like the armor rating was doing much for you anyway
>>
>>67190300
Isn't this part of "races are free, so basically meaningless" design idea?
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>>67190300
Example characters are always shit in every RPG. You really can't make any judgement based on how they're built.
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>>67190362
SA is +1 DV.
Amp Up is +1 damage per +2 drain. It's a bad trade, obviously, unless you can stack tons of resist drain dice in 6e too.

But the point is, to overtake weapons in raw base damage in 5e, a mage needed to cast a spell at 10-14 Force. Desert Strike used to be 13P, so 13 Force it is, and even in the best conditions (fetishes) that would be 8 Drain.

Right now you can get to that 5P for a sniper rifle with either 9 MAG or 7 MAG and one Amp Up to 7 drain.
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>>67190300
Troll height's been somewhat random for a while

Also they're clearly using a different stat range, natural AGI 6 is impossible on a troll
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>>67190419
It's not a judgement of the build's quality. It's just funny how the troll isn't really all that...troll. Or streetsam, because he has less augs than a lucky ganger...
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>>67190446
What rock have you been living under? Trolls and Orks are equal, if not superior, to Humans now. The only penalty Trolls get now is a piddly -1 to Charisma. That's it. Orks have no such problems.
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>>67190461
>Inb4 "<SR 6e metaplot> has destroyed 90% of augs in the world, Bone Lacing starts at 20F for plastic, and you're lucky to even have cybereyes or a cyberjack"
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>>67182480
I thought that was something completely different when I saw the thumbnail.
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>>67190461
>tfw CGL understands the requests for better street level as requests for less augs rather than requests for more sanely priced gear

The thing is the troll has the equivalent of 4e/5e's base Strength and Body but has higher stats than should be possible for Agi and Quickness

And the thing is I can live with stat ranges that pigeonhole less than they used to.

I've tried running 4e with Ork, Dorf and Elf stats dumped to two +1s and Trolls to two +2s and the impact is basically non-existent
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>>67190489
The fuck are you smoking, 4e and 5e Trolls have literally the same penalties, -1 Agi, -1 Log, -1 Int, -2 Cha
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>>67190432
It's pretty unusual for a mage to get magic over 6 though. Also the desert strike can SA burst too.

For 5-7 drain though, blasting like that still isn't going to be sustainable.

Putting any sniper rifle (other than the weakest sporting rifle) at just 1 damage over a heavy pistol is absolutely a mistake however
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>>67190595
Not in 6e, smoothbrain.
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>>67190632
>Also the desert strike can SA burst too.
Love to have a basic mage attack with the power to hit like a double tap off a .50
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>>67190698
In that case I have absolutely 0 problems with the Troll BOD and STR bonus going down, a Troll that only takes -1 Cha and still keeps the bonuses would be insanely unbalanced.

I think CGL should burn to the ground and I'm still okay with that
>>
Skills only go up to 9 now too, which might put mundies at more of a disadvantage since their stats can't go up infinitely.
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>>67187158

I bought the box at my local shop, in Montreal. I didn't know CGL would offering the free pdf if you bought the physical box on their online store. If I had known... That being said, shipping the box to Canada would've probably cost 30$ alone. The PDF would be nice to have, yes...
>>
>>67190300
Maybe he's just secretly a Fomori.
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>>67189574
Least it was until Ares fucked everything up.
>>
I don't understand the armor change. Sure maybe it stacked too much but they already gutted the values and there is armor spell which is now mandatory.
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>>67182725
For me 6e's biggest failure is that it took risks in stupid places instead of addressing the game's STILL present problems.

Yes, Initiative was confusing and bluntly pointlessly complex but it meshed well with the game's intentions.

If they wanted to make a bold change in direction, they should have dropped the Matrix entirely in the core mechanics and focused on the reason almost all of us play Shadowrun instead of switching to a mechanically superior cyberpunk game: magic.

Half measures result in half-assing, as usual.
>>
>>67190801
>I bought the box
you poor, stupid bastard.
>>
Oh, well that's nice. Gotta admit I laughed a bit though.
>>
Would somewhere like the SOX make a good version of the Stalker zone?
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>>67190801
>Do not buy CGL books
Fuck CGL for shafting the people who are still willing to give them money. That said, the Box PDFs are in the wild by now. I assume the collections in the OP will update soon.
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>>67191118

I've got to admit I'm new to Shadowrun. Played a little bit of 3rd edition when I was about 12, but the rules were way to complicated for the kid I was, much more eager to play than to properly read the rules. I went back to playing AD&D and then simply stopped playing RPGs. I recently heard about Shadowrun's new edition. Decided to give it a try. I don't know anything about the "polemics" around CGL but, after a few clicks online, I can see they're not really ... appreciated by a lot of players.
>>
>>67191084
I'd say so. That's basically how I roll the Scottish Nuke Zone in the ScotSprawl setting I've been writing up.
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>>67191222
It's a mistake many new players make, don't worry.

CGL are scum and the sooner they give Shadowrun license to based germans, the better.
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>>67191370
>such is life in Glasgow
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>>67191370
>Scottish S.T.A.L.K.E.R
Want.
>>
Does anyone have that artwork of that troll wageslave? Need it for a character
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>>67190728
>a Troll that only takes -1 Cha and still keeps the bonuses would be insanely unbalanced.
That's exactly what it is.
>>
What are some fun little encounters that could occur mid run?
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>>67192209
Another run in progress.
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>>67191614
I'm pretty sure you meant the other one but I still wanted to post this
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>>67190970
fuck magic
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>>67192302
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>>67191459
>>67191463
>Blowit suin fellaw highlander.
When?
>Noo
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>>67192329
>>67192302
No, it was another one.
It was like a troll sitting in a cubicle with a computer.
>>
>>67192496
I think I know which one you mean
give me a few minutes
>>
I've got a question on Augmented Maximums
If a character were to have 1 in a stat, and cast Increase [Attribute] on that stat, and got 6 hits, would their stat go up to 7 or 5? Does the Augmented Maximum mean that you can only get 4 of a stat ever from stat augments or does it mean that your absolute maximum is max + 4?
>>
>>67192537
5
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>>67192610
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>>67192535
thanks.
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>>67192318
You may want to try any of the half dozen superior cyberpunk systems if that's really how you feel.

It isn't, but I figured I should humor you anon.
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>>67192537
I'm pretty sure augmented maximum is your natural maximum + 4, so you'd get 7.
It's been a minute since I read the details of the rule, but I remember you can make a cyberarm with 10 STR even when your natural STR is 1.
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>>67192764
sorry man, I can't find it anywhere
sorry to disappoint you
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>>67191463
I haven't been able to run it because it's a WIP and my group's been on hiatus for months anyway, but it's been fun to write. The basic gist of it is that Glasgow is a gang-ridden and violent runner haven, Edinburgh is the rich half of the sprawl with arcologies and a heavy corporate presence, and basically everything outside is the Nuke Zone - an irradiated, toxic, barely livable hellhole to STALKER or Metro levels.
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>>67192961
It is alright. I'll try and find it.
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>>67192930
Cyberlimbs don't augment your attributes, they replace them for certain tasks. They also don't contribute to limits.
If your attribute is 1 you can augment it to a maximum of 5 but no further. +4 is the maximum.
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>>67192986
>They also don't contribute to limits.
Only if you're a dum-dum who doesn't use superior German engineering.
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>>67192995
The German rules are the ones that actually make clear that cyberlimbs don't contribute to limits. They only do if you replace all four of your limbs and use a special optional rule (which I would suggest you do).
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>>67192537
Augmented maximum just means you can only get +4 from augments

The rest has to be your base stat.

If you have base 1, and a +4 augment, then your stat will be 1(5). If you have base 10 and +4 from augments, then it'll be 10(14)
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>>67187158
>Maybe the original donor is still around?
That would be great. There's really no need to give CGL any more money.
So, does anyone around here already own No Future on DTRPG? If so, please send the updated version to a cleaner of your choice.
>>
If not for the armor changes, I'd be 100% on board with the new build-a-metatype-we-are-all-biologically-equal paradigm. It actually enables the goblinoid magic user that's supposed to be archetypal to the setting, as without material resources the usual fallback for trog communities is magic.
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>>67193812
I'm not. It makes humans inferior as can be in the Shadowrunning sense.
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>>67193929
Yeah, there's a ton of other shit that they can still get wrong with the "growth over time" and other metatype-linked qualities, but I don't want to think about it til we have the actual book available.
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>>67193929
It really depends how it's done, I could see keeping limits somewhat similar and still having lower starting scores; so a troll might have more potential to develop muscle but not be inherently that much beefire than a human from the get go.
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>>67193970
No. I like humans having something they can actually do mechanically. It's not that big of a dice difference already, why go further to humiliate humans?
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>>67193929
>humans inferior
Yes, that's correct.
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>>67194059
>humans having something they can actually do mechanically
???
??
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>>67194438
Something they're superior to others at. Being a jack of all trades is something.
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>>67167190

Anyone got a copy of Runner's Black Book?

Looking for some of the pages for the extra gear that are bonuses only in the RBB (particularly the AN-39).

Sorry it took me so long anon. Let me know if you want any other page.
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>>67194629
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>>67194629

Final
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>>67187158
I'm thinking of being a donor but don't know cleaner sites or if they're trustworthy
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>>67195069
Not that anon, but thanks! The Beginner Box has already been liberated and is available, but the 6e version of No Future is still missing.
The cleaners I've interacted with are all trustworthy and have simple upload drops you can send your file to.
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>>67195138
Pass me a link to a cleaner and I'll liberate No Future. Is the box on the paste bin?
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>>67194453
A single point of edge was fucking meaningless. Elves are more agile, Dwarves more resilient, Orks and Trolls stronger

Humans were always mediocre
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>>67195198
but they were also cheap
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>>67195198
But orks and trolls weren't as smart. Dwarves slower in reaction. Etc.

Humans had their niche.

Had.
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>>67195187
See pic for the link and yes, you can find the box in the bin. Thanks, anon!
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>>67195198
>A single point of edge was fucking meaningless
*laughs in +8d6 exploding dice eight times per run*
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>>67195244
I don't know if the SCN clowns understood and explained that correctly, but it looks like metas can spend their special meta points on all attributes that get changed by their metatype, including those that get a negative modifier. Which strikes me as really really odd.
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>>67184738
Well, there is that jabberwocky that stole the player's car and now is doing wetwork jobs.
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>>67189803
explain
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>>67195307
>per run
And that's if your GM is a hardass. If they're more generous than that, you get it all the time.
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>>67195301
Well, the inner temple was visited.
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>>67196072
Much obliged. And now we wait for it to be cleaned and posted and for it to find its way into the bin.
By the way, is it true that they have basically overwritten the 5e version, or do you still have access to that?
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>>67196156
Confirmed. I never had access to it. I'm more of a systems guy, I am very much interested in getting more into the fluff so this was new to me.
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>>67189905
I suspect that Attack Rating was originally supposed to function like 5e Accuracy until they fucked it all up with this Edge-generating no-soaking-armor horseshit. It actually would've made a lot more sense that way.
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>>67190897
>Ares
Ares FIXED Chi, anon
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>>67196238
So there's no way to get the 5e version of NF on DTRPG anymore, even if you'd paid for it already? No way to somehow access the older version? Because that would be a new low, even for CGL.
I mean, look at it. The preview still shows the 5e version. The page is still tagged as 5e content. And then you give them your money and receive a PDF with only 6e crunch? Wow... just wow...
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>>67196296
Looks like it. The previews do look like 5E, but the content of the book so far is wrapped in 6E styling.
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>>67182725
If 7th edition turns out to just be a polished 3rd edition.
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>>67185166
"Breeders" is a good one
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>>67196957
Isn't "Breeder" more a thing Trogs call Humans?
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>>67196957
I thought orcs were the ones popping out literal litters.
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>>67185802
>Like, they have racial slurs but none of them are really offensive because they don't give a fuck?
They're not as damaging because they don't carry the weight of centuries of deadly, crushing oppression

IMO humans are the white people of SR and elves are like east-asians. Elves get "positive" stereotypes (aren't all of you supposed to be beautiful acrobats?), and serious problems from only the most extreme racists. Humans are still the most numerous metatype and are pretty much dominant socially.
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>>67197023
Not that anon. The context of "breeder" is that humans can "breed" all kinds of metatypes. Two human parents can give birth to an elf, dwarf, ork, or even troll.
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>>67197043
Oh, that's still not really offensive.
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>>67197023
Orks and trolls are supposed to need help with pregnancy or birth, so humans are "breeders" because they can do it naturally
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>>67197038
>They're not as damaging because they don't carry the weight of centuries of deadly, crushing oppression
top fucking kek, metahumans were experimented on for two decades at most
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>>67182480
So is the general consensus to still stick with the anniversary edition, because that's what my group has been doing.
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>>67197043
I always thought the implication of Breeder was that the only good humans served was to bear ork litters.
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>>67197093
Stick with what you like, even if that should be 4e, like in your case.
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>>67197081
The entire reaction to their emergence would do it though. You had people getting murdered after goblinizing, people thinking they were possessed or somesuch, plus the time it took for services to come up and start trying to accommodate metas' completely new body shapes.
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>>67197110
That's certainly a spin you can put on it, yes.
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>>67197128
all eliminated within a single fucking generation

trogs ain't got nothing to be bitching about other than being ugly motherfuckers
>>
What is the best edition/version of Shadowrun? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 20th Anniversary, homebrew, or HBS' skill system?
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>>67197093
Pretty much, yes.
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>>67197189
Personally? 5e > 3e > 1e/2e > 4e/20 > Anarchy, and 6e will most likely manage to get the spot below Anarchy.
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>>67197315
What's so bad about 4e?
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>>67197341
Depends on who you ask. People who started out with it swear on it and that's fine. People who had previous experience with the game will most likely tell you that it's the least Shadowrun-ny edition of them all. The only reason it ranks above Anarchy on my list is that Anarchy really is THAT bad.
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>>67197395
>it's the least Shadowrun-ny edition of them all.
Yes, but what does that mean.
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>>67197422
It means "I'm right, you're wrong"
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>>67197422
Insane increase in power level out of character creation, priority gen not the base system, cutting out one of the most iconic archetypes, departure from retro-futurism in favour of "real" tech, a general shift in tone, blah blah blah.
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>>67197470
Where does it say anything that's even remotely close to that?
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>>67197189
1/2 for historic reasons. 3 for fluff. 4 for innovation (even if not particularly well-executed). 5 for player base.
>>
can i end a campaign by becoming a dragon's little pet?

i wanna be pampered by a rich scaly and sleep on their underbelly like an adorable cat
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>>67197470
Why are 4e-lings always so thin-skinned? Did that post touch a nerve or something? It literally says that it's fine to like 4e (assuming "swear on" was supposed to be "swear by").
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>>67182725
Does anyone have a current/updated list of everything we know?
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>>67197395
Started with 5e, but I like 4e way more in most places that aren't deleting deckers/autofire mechanics/direct combat spells. The best edition for me would be a mix of those things, with 5e as a base, but a LOT of backporting from 4e and fixing stuff.
>>
Hoi chummers, last session the team booked it and left two teammates (infiltration adept and street sam) for dead after a botched attempt to infiltrate a AA corp site. The two stragglers survived, but now they're in corp custody, and the rest of the team is still considered to be at large. What should the next steps from here be? I'm not entirely sure how to move forward with this, both because I'm a little spoiled for choice and because this is the first time runners have gone down without getting geeked.
>>
>6e Combat Sense spell only increases dice pool for surprise tests, not for defense tests.

If the Adept power version is the same way, then Adepts are pretty much fucked and then there's no viable combat archetype at all.
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>>67198540
>then there's no viable combat archetype at all
Troll mage with armor spell?
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>>67198550
>mage troll
you may not like it, but that's what peak combat looks like, and if you're against that you're a goblinophobe
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>>67198485
>2 dead, 2 in custody

I'd want to just consider it a failure state and make new characters asked to finish the job
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>>67198566
>2 dead, 2 in custody
That's not what that says. Two left for dead, now in custody, rest at large.
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>>67198540
Mystic Adepts.
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>>67198485
You abduct some blues and negotiate a hostage exchange before the next assault begins.
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>>67197110
Trog underground breeding camps. Nuff said.
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>>67199063
Don't need camps when women of all metatypes will come for that BOD.
>>
>everyone picks troll shaman
>maxes body
>at the first opportunity buys quickened Armor and Increase Body
>hit people with fists and spirits

Honestly this doesn't sound like Shadowrun to me.
>>
Hey guys! It's the anon that's been working on a Cardinal System conversion for Shadowrun, and while progress did get mildly delayed by a three-week business trip, I'm back at it. At this point, the only thing left to do is to properly format some tables that got fucked up when I swapped paper sizes along with adding in a bit of art to spruce things up. I'm planning on actually printing it here for use with my group, so I wanted to spruce some color in on the chapters and cover, but then I thought I might use some of the old-school B&W Shadowrun art for the actual body of the work.

So, could you throw some B&B Shadowrun art at it, chummers?

Hope to have everything ready to go in a week or two tops. Still dealing with some bullshit from the trip that's yet to be resolved, so I'm still more than a little distracted. Looking good, though, and definitely should be released here before August.
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>>67197525
There it is.
The single worst thing I'll read today.
Grats my man.
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>>67199692
...Compared to all the 6e information?
>>
I decided to do something creative for my campaign's first session.
Wish me luck.
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>>67199692
Hi there! Enjoying your first day on our website? I know some of the users can be a little harsh at times, but it's nothing to get alarmed about, don't worry, it's all just in good fun.
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>>67199747
Cranial bombs are NOT creative
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>>67199608
High Tech and Low Life probably has some art worth putting in.
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>>67199692
got some thin skin do ya?
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>>67198084
Imagine enjoying the metaphorical taste of shit
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>>67200228
Always with insults, always without arguments. Yes, SR 4e isn't like 1e to 3e. But I'm not really attached to 80s vision of cyberpunk, and post-cyberpunk suits me just fine. The system is more balanced in most aspects, though worse in others - so what? No edition of Shadowrun works perfectly without houseruling anyway.
>>
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>>67200246
>Always with insults, always without arguments
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>>67194629
>>67194655
>>67194692

My god - Someone actually posted it!

Many, many thanks anon!
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>>67194629

I wonder why it's called an Assault Rifle a dozen times if it has SMG range...?
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>>67200540
I wonder why it has a small box magazine even though it holds 8 probably pretty fucking huge grenades.
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>>67200590
Also a good question. According to some random pic on the internet, a STANAG 30-round AR15 magazine is about 7 inches or 18cm tall. A 38 round 5.45 magazine is likely to be a bit longer, however. Let's say '20 and a bit'.

At 2.5cm per each of its 8 grenades, if it's single stacked it could be a bit longer than 20cm. If doublestacked it could be as short as 12.5-15cm perhaps?

Therefore, you would expect a doublestacked grenade magazine to be about 2/3rds, give or take, the length of the assault rifle magazine. And it looks about that, to be honest.

Still not quite seeing how a bullpup rifle (i.e. longer barrel for given overall length) using rifle ammo has SMG range.
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>>67200678
>double stacked 25mm grenades
that box mag certainly doesn't look like it's that wide, infact, the shading implies it's not as wide as the barrel.
as for smg ranges out of a rifle with basically 5.56 ammo? Because reasons. But that's less about the guns design and more the ammo.
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>>67200746
True. That's the only thing I can think of, though.

'Because reasons' is a pretty disappointing reason, though. The ammo is fine - 150m is not even near 'extreme' range for a current day AK, let alone a super special future one.

In fact, in Euro War Antiques, there's a whole range of guns including the AK-74 which use the exact same ammo, no word on any range issues, and they're all Vintage to boot.

And purely in game crunch terms, for that price I don't see why it should be basically a submachine gun (attached grenade launcher or not).
>>
Can someone explain the logic behing 6th edition AR and DR system?

Looking at the quick start rules nothing much would change if you threw it into garbage where they belond, roughly double the damage values of weapons and spells and turn DR granted by gear into armor. You can still get edge from gear and the DR values are so low that soak doesn't get out of hand.
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>>67200910
maybe it's a gigantic grain load that goes subsonic speed, for some reason
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>>67200926
>Can someone explain the logic behing 6th edition
I'm insulted that you think we could.
>>
>>67200926
It's CGL. 6e is the second edition where they try to introduce a subsystem that's somehow supposed to fix the rules completely. 5e had limits that mostly fucked with vehicle speeds and didn't do shit 90% of the time, now we have this weird Edge interplay with everything, except you can't get too much Edge and thus everything is just slowed down.
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>>67200926
I was wondering this myself, since I bit the bullet and got the 10 dollar pdf in a naive hope that 6e would be more streamlined. I honestly don’t have a ton of problems with the way it’s condensed skills and certain tests, but I don’t see why AR and DR even need to exist. I never played 5e, only GM’d it for a few sessions (and even then I was still learning the rules), so do you think 6e is still salvageable for the most part if you houserule it that way? As it stands I’ll probably have some hybrid of 5e and 6e
>>
>>67201024
I understand why you'd want to swap environmental modifiers to abstract situational advantage because the former just reduces your ability while the later adds to it.

I just feel that the system here is way to broad and now you can't do anything if you don't have the advantage and that isn't good design either.
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>>67201210
I think it is easier to fix than 5 just by the virtue of having fewer moving parts.
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>>67201247
I was thinking of trying it RAW and seeing how it turns out, and then worst case scenario I jury rig some way to reintroduce soak and make combat spells function the way they do in 5e, though that might be more trouble than it’s worth if I have to try to make Force work within 6e. My main worry is that the base “Magic level divided by 2” DV for combat spells is potentially way too OP, especially when the Ares Desert Strike is 5 DV for some inexplicable reason that I dearly hope is an editing error
>>
>>67201299
If you double the damage to magic along with the gun damage and keep the amp up mechanic and drain codes I think it seems reasonable.
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>>67201247
>>67201299
>>67201332
if you do all this shit, what exactly do you keep from 6e?
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>>67201353

>changing 2 or 3 mechanics of a system means that you might as well scrap the entire system

I like the condensed skill groups of 6e and I’d like to at least try the new edge system before I rip into it. That combined with how simplified everything else seems to be, especially in regards to things like the Matrix, appeal to me. I’ve always loved Shadowrun as a setting but a lot of the crunch and bloat of 5e turned me off at first, I won’t lie. Worst case scenario, I just deal with 5e, so I’d at least like to see if I can find a good balance with 6e first.
>>
>>67197067
I have never heard this before. I thought orks had no problem having common multiple births. Is it just because they have lower levels of health care in general?

>>67197479
>cutting out one of the most iconic archetypes
What archetype did 4e cut?
>>
>>67195301

Sorry for the noob question but how can I access the "bin"?

Thanks!
>>
>>67201566
Deckers. Everyone could hack from a commlink, it was pretty much independent of stats, you just had to have some skill (and in 4e there are only 6 skill ranks at the same cost as 5e had), the right programs and good hardware. So pretty much anyone could learn to hack rather easily.
>>
>>67199723
I don't have any intentions of playing 6e, not for a long while.

>>67199752
>good fun

>>67199967
Everyone has a limit bud.
>>
>>67201731
Ctrl-F
>>
How do you do your player's contacts?
It's weird to me to have to run characters someone else made.
>>
>>67200926
>Can someone explain the logic behing 6th edition AR and DR system?
No.

...that's not a refusal, that's the answer. Nobody can explain this shit.
>>
>>67201897
Our GM just talks to us and asks for general expectations about the character, and fleshes them out somewhat.
>>
>>67201842

I did check, of course.

The only pastebin link I found was 4 years old and hadn't been edited since then. I guess I just fucking don't understand 4chan.
>>
>>67200933
standard 5.45 is 53 grains(3,43 grams) and it's muzzle velocity is 899 m/s and according to wikipedia, that gives us a muzzle energy of 1386.064715 Joules, if we assume that with the same powder load we have the same muzzle energy, and assuming a speed of ~300 m/s, we get a bullet mass of 30,8014381111 grams or 475,3388307164427 grains
tl; dr it would be stupidly huge
>>
HOW impossible are blade waves?

Like, how hard do I have to swing a thing before it's just an explosion?
>>
>>67201299
the low damage codes are definately not an error, but meant to be like that because soak dice are so much harder to come by.
>>
>>67202215
I’m fine with low DV to compensate for no armor soak, at least in theory. But when an average handgun in 5e is around 8P and the .50 sniper rifle is 13P, I at least expect the scaling to remain consistent in 6e. 4P for the pistol and 5P for the rifle is such a negligible difference.
>>
>>67202215
And it's retarded, too. A shot with .50 cal, if it touches you, should be fucking deadly to anything that's less than a troll.
>>
>>67202215
It changes the feel of the combat to much worse because now guns are shit and majority of the damage come from the wielder skills, edge and autofire.
>>
>>67202308
Just like 4e. That was the major fuckup 4e had.
>>
>>67202215
They definitely downgraded damage numbers because honestly DVs under 6 weren't worth mentioning anyway in 5e. Then taking out armor soak makes the weapons do about as much damage as before.

But then they forgot to change the condition monitors to match it, so we have huge condition monitors relative to tiny damage and soak pools.

It'd probably have been okay if they dropped condition monitors to be like 4+(Stat/2) in addition to the DV and soak downgrades. That way all the numbers scale down similarly and oneshotting can still happen.
>>
>>67202203
You're kind of stuck in adept bullshit territory there with Distance Strike from 4e, really.
>>
>>67202747
No, it doesn't. Any gun worth mentioning in 5e deals 8+ damage, and mooks rarely have enough armor to compensate. Giving a sniper rifle 5P is ridiculous - 5e Desert Strike, while not that good, did 13P at -4 AP, which means that it's gonna take a typical ganger's head clean off through his armor jacket and 3 bod with one shot and ONE net hit, and if you're competent, it's gonna be overkill like hell. In 6e? You're gonna deal 4P of damage with one net hit. That's less than half his condition monitor.
>>
>>67203019
>In 6e? You're gonna deal 4P of damage with one net hit. That's less than half his condition monitor.

That's exactly why reducing the condition monitor would make the math work better
>>
>>67203063
If you drop the condition monitors to the suggested 4+half stat, then a ganger would still have 6 phys, which means the base damage of the rifle is still too low to oneshot them. Besides, 5e's soak and damage values actually worked. They promoted various levels of lethality, from "oh no my naked ass is gonna get killed by anything in one or two shots" to "light pistol? against a serious street samurai? are you a fucking idiot?" to "grenades can eat shit and fuck right off". It was a good scale and at least promoted the only thing mundane combatants were just better at than anyone else - not dying.
>>
>>67203107
I agree that the number worked better in 5th (ones in 6th are an abomination) but I think worn armor was bit too effective against small arms.

I don't mind sammy who buy ware stacking the soak but jackets generally made pistols an non-issue, something that doesn't happen in real life.
>>
>>67203136
Armored jackets were, indeed, too strong. Something like 6-8 armor would've suited them better, and the person who invented forearm guards should probably repent his sins right now.
>>
>>67203160
Maybe scaling like
>6 vest
>9 jacket
>12 FBA
>15 milspec/security
>18 heavy milspec
?
>>
Jesus Christ!
6e is retarded as shit and all but
Why does the example Street Sam in the burning crap that are the Quick Start rules have only a pair of cyber eyes?
The mage got like what? 5 spells? But the so called "Street Samurai" have just some low rank cybereyes!
Am I unresonably mad is this some major bullshit?
>>
a good solution to the jacket's extraordinary armour/nuyen efficiency could be locational damage, the witcher rpg deals with it in a somewhat simple way
>>
>>67203388
>major bullshit
What did you expect? Have you not been listening for the last weeks?
>>
>>67203246
No, that's also not that good. Milspec armor needs to have either hardened armor or fucking insane amounts of armor, because it's military equipment, and not the generic kind, too.
I'd say the default progression is actually fine, it's just that the worst kind of FBA (usually the generic FBA with no extras) should be available at chargen - it's nerfed by being not stealthy already.

So something like:
>6 armor armored vest
>8 armor armored jacket
>8 armor lined coat (basically a style pick)
>12 (and +3 helmet) armor chargen FBA, kinda shitty but still good
>15+3 armor good FBA, not milspec tier but something that professionals wear, chemseal included
>15+3 hardened milspec light, no stealth or movement penalties
>20+4 hardened milspec heavy, stealth+movement penalties, but this shit can take a rocket to the face and you'll only take some stun
>>
>>67203495
And also those stylish shitty armors anywhere from 4 to 10 armor. Cool coats, cool suits, chameleon suits and bike racer clothes, etc.
>>
Wanna make a tarot mage. Anywhere I can steal a copy of the Sixth World Tarot stuff, or should I just memorize Book of the Lost? I think some of the interpretations are supposed to have changed, and I wanna be able to rattle that shit off in character
>>
What is worse:
>Crew of only faces
or
>Crew of only technomancers
>>
>>67203593
Both definitions are rather blurry.

Technomancers doesn't actually tell you much about what the character can do. You can easily have a troll cyberadept who is a streetsam with some matrix magic, a machinist who is basically a rigger+, a technoshaman for actual Matrix work and also face-stuff. This setup only lacks magic support.

Face-team can just have everyone be an elf, but also be a mystic adept or mage or decker or rigger or techno or even streetsam. Being a face is mostly having high CHA and good talking skills, and while adepts/mages have a leg up on that, mundane faces can also work well enough.
>>
>>67203593
>Crew of only faces
That's just Ocean's Eleven.
>>
>>67203593
Technos.

Faces can at least load up on contacts to do everything else for them. And also social infiltrate like absolute bosses. Someone could get leadership and buff the others' secondary/tertiary skill rolls to an extent.
>>
>>67203593
They can both work well, but a crew of only technos has no defense against magic, so would be best suited to matrix heavy runs or runs where magical opposition isn't expected. A team of only faces could have some be awakened and some decent combat abilities. Hell, technofaces are a thing. Technosams are too, but that's besides the point.
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>>67200926
>Can someone explain the logic behing 6th edition AR and DR system?
One of the authors apparently tried to explain it, badly.
>https://www.shadowrunsixthworld.com/2019/07/combat-creation-with-shadowrun-writer-scott-schletz/
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>>67204089
>Attack Rating became a merged up stat to cover, armor penetration, accuracy, recoil compensation, and just the general quality and design of the weapon all rolled into one.

This could actually end up reducing overhead on attack rolls. If we just have to compare AR, DR, DV, and diepools without all the other stuff going on.
>>
>literally no games anywhere
>way too busy to GM a game
I'm biting the living community bullet, is there any that are decent in any way.
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>>67200393

>Many, many thanks anon!

No problem, let me know if you want any other page
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>>67204405
It should reduce overhead, but it also reduces a weapon to basically DV, clip size, fire modes and five Attack Ratings. It's...kinda boring and the gear porn won't really work because you can't do much with those stats.
>>
Anyone else think the Yakuza is boring as a syndicate?
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>>67204089
That doesn't explain anything though. You still roll soak so removing (mundane) armor entirely doesn't streamline anything. You have different AR on different ranges so the distance modifier isn't gone either, there is gear that adds to AR so keeping tabs on gear modifiers aren't gone either. What did they actually achieve?

I don't mind edge as combat pool but leave guns and armor out of it. In 6th edition weapons are some anime shit that can't kill people by accident. If there is no killing intent then assault rifle to face isn't lethal.
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If you have cyberlimbs, would you get drunk faster because you have less blood / body-mass to work with?

Would blood sugar be a problem if you're used to eating like a normal person but are using fewer resources (proteins, blood-sugar, etc) to maintain your meat-body?
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>>67204477
>It should reduce overhead, but it also reduces a weapon to basically DV, clip size, fire modes and five Attack Ratings. It's...kinda boring and the gear porn won't really work because you can't do much with those stats.

They could make it so that most of the weapon mods just impact AR at various ranges
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>>67204511
Take note of the following text.
>When all was said and done, they all loved the final result because it meant faster combat resolution for future games—and they knew the result finally would stay the same, instead of being changed week to week, or even combat to combat!

They got tired and bored of reinventing combat. Which simultaneously points at the incompetence of CGL rules designers and also makes one question whether changing anything even had a purpose,

Also note:
>In the end, we came up with a system that kept my group’s hacker and mage happily sitting at the table and waiting for their next turn instead of whipping out phones or checking out or going to pick up pizza, while also making the street sam feel like she still ruled combat in the shadows.

What a load of bullshit that is, eh? Stop fucking trying to make non-combat characters matter in combat, you cretins. If my streetsam has no ability to contribute to magic or hacking, then the ability of hackers and mages to contribute to combat should also be very limited, UNLESS they're actually doing the same shit as I do and shoot a fucking gun!
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>>67204567
But anon, if you fully minmax a streetsam and take wired reflexes R3 or whatever gets you +3 dice, you can attack twice a turn! That's way better than any hacker or mage! Please ignore how aiming gives you edge or something as a minor action and you want 2 minor actions to maximize your edge gain per combat turn so you can start regenerating bullet wounds.
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>>67204605
Wanna bet that Increase Reflexes will still be there and if you get like 6 hits, you'll be better than a maxed-out sammy?
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>>67204712
>wanna bet that CGL won't nerf mages in any way ever
Might as well be betting that the sun will rise tomorrow
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>>67198540
Actually, thinking about this further, if they fuck up Adept Combat Sense then Improved Skill or whatever it's called will probably still exist and you can just use it to boost Athletics for better full defense dodging, which you should never not be doing.

It'd be nice if there was ANY INFORMATION AT ALL about Adepts so I wouldn't have to speculate.
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>>67204422
There's a thread about a new one on plebbit. Maybe try that one. It at least avoids the issue of coming into an already very established environment and having to suck up to the "pillars of the community".
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>>67204511
>tried to explain it, badly
>tried
>badly
Those fucks don't know what they're doing. They assumed that SR players are brainlets and thus wanted to dumb down the system. They're too dumb to do that well though.
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>>67204526
>If you have cyberlimbs, would you get drunk faster because you have less blood / body-mass to work with?
Mechanically? No.

>Would blood sugar be a problem if you're used to eating like a normal person but are using fewer resources (proteins, blood-sugar, etc) to maintain your meat-body?
You also need energy to maintain your new cyber-body parts.
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>>67204567
To be honest, the street sam SHOULD be able to contribute to magic and hacking. Turnabout is fair play.
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>>67204712
Wasn't that part of the first publicly streamed 6e session?
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>>67204916
Are this point, yeah, fuck it. Say the Biggest Mana Spike Ever happened (destroying yet another major UCAS city in the process, naturally) and now everyone's Awakened so anyone can learn to spellcast with training. It'll fuck the setting even more, but it's not like they've ever given a shit about that before.
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>>67205122
Earthdawn 2090. To be fair, the 6th World IS headed that way.
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>>67204089
>When that boss fight comes around
If you needed confirmation that CGL don't understand Shadowrun, look no further!

>>67204873
>They assumed that SR players are brainlets
I'm pretty damn sure that most of the people that are still "working" for CGL aren't suited for complex crunchy games themselves.
If you yourself are too stupid to understand the system you're working on, the impulse to dumb it down is kind of understandable.
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>>67204873
I don't mind streamlined, hunting extra dice from splats 3.5 style, wondering if two thirds of the skills in the book are useless or only half and lining your pockets with 100 nuyen auxiliary crap because nothing is assumed was never my thing.

I'm the guy who they are trying to pander and I see only bad design.
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>>67205122
>>67205155
Not the Shadowrun I want to play, but obviously the Shadowrun CGL see as perfect.
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>>67205155
Not even Earthdawn was that magical. Adepts only made up about 25 percent of Barsaive's population. Mundanes were still the majority, they were just irrelevant.
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>>67204089
Oh and before I forget, the biggest complaint that came up time and time again was
>PUT SOME FUCKING EFFORT INTO YOUR GODDAMNED EDITING AND QUALITY CONTROL
not "dumb down the system". There's Anarchy for that. And what did they do?
Tried to dumb it down, fucked that up, and the editing and QC looks to be even more atrocious than before.
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>>67197065
>Your race only exists for me and my kin to breed with in order to propagate my own kind. Your entire culture and human history ended up to only being a breeder, or surrogate for my dominant Troll seed. Take it breeder scrum.

>Not offensive

C-L-U-C-K detected.
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>>67205277
Anarchy has extremely badly designed narrative mechanic though. You are supposed to fill half of your character sheet with quips that do nothing and then do some pvp.
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>>67205233
>Not the Shadowrun I want to play
Believe me, neither do I.

>>67205234
>Adepts only made up about 25 percent of Barsaive's population
Yeah, but 100 percent of PCs.
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>>67205306
I know. They already had one badly designed dumbed down system. Now they have two. They're certainly not the same, but both are shit.
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>>67205340
To be fair 5th isn't very good system either, the dice pool mechanic is less obtuse than target numbers were but you don't need gurps style granularity for skills in game that is already as complex to play and DM as SR.
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>>67204916
>street sam contribute to hacking

Make hosts into physical onsite mainframe-y things, and let hackers have nice things for direct-connecting to them or disabling their power.

Or just let the sammy break the IT security team's legs so they fork over passwords/documents/marks/access/etc to break the whole security system from inside. And the IT security people have to be onsite because I don't know noise or something
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>>67205459
Removal of physical hosts was the worst thing to happen to the Matrix in all Shadowrun. Yes, including the 4e mess.
>>67205429
You can condense SR 5e skill list to 40-50 skills. More than that, and you start losing meaningful granularity, I'd say.
>>
>>67205429
The mechanical foundations are sound, and it captures the "feel" of traditional SR way better than 4e did.
Is it perfect? No. But it's a very usable complex and crunchy system, especially if you include the German fixes.
SR has always been on the complex and crunchy side, and trying to turn it into something that it is not, especially if you're as inept as CGL, can only lead to problems.
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>>67205491
To add to that - 45-50 skills is including all the magical and techno shit as well. So it's about 35 actual skills, a bit less if you really want Firearms to be a single skill instead of Handguns/Longarms/Heavy Weapons (Big Guns) divide, which I find both granular and simplistic.
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>>67205491
I'd say sub 40 would be enough, rest can be filled with exotics. You need few classes of weapon skills, few classes of driving skills and few classes of magical skill and few classes of social skills which take most of the space. You don't need to break stealth between palming and sneaking and whatnot and you don't need to split athletics down to running and diving.
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>>67205591
My personal condensed list is about 50 skills. They are mostly neatly packed into groups of 3 for skill groups (14 in total), there are some loose skills like Throwing Weapons and Locksmith, and there are no exotic skills (monowhip has been nerfed for being a dumb meme weapon that's still too good even if you have to pay extra to wield it).
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>>67205513
Mechanical foundation is sound to the level of basic dice mechanics and some of the systems but some major ones like matrix and niche ones like enchanting really aren't there.

Clearly I don't hate it considering I've played it for years straight but there is some extensive houseruling and rewriting like adding hardware component to matrix so going on site actually makes some god damn sense.
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I'm working on my own homebrew and I've reduced the active skill list to 22
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>>67202098
I agree that the range is too short but irl subsonic ammo doesn’t have the same muzzle energy as normal loads even with a heavier projectile (for example https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016549622/atomic-ammunition-223-remington-subsonic-77-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-50)
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>>67205803
Enchanting is pretty busted, that's correct. Doesn't bother us much though since it's not really a "PC thing" to do.
The matrix works just fine and adds a very interesting and complex layer to the entire world, provided you understand it.
Bringing your decker on site with you is essential by the way, even without house rules.
Direct connections, not being able to interact with silent devices if further away than 100m, all those things.
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>>67205291
translated to:
>I am nothing and have nothing. The only things that I have acquired in this world are second handed goods passed down to me by my betters
Trogs gtfo
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>>67205941
I would start by saying that while i do study physics I do not know that much about fluid dynamics or chemistry, but i'm fairly sure that the assumption that with the same powder load it should have the same muzzle energy, also the specification tab in the link isn't loading for some reason.
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>>67205948
The issue there is that there is no VR architecture, IC or anything else unless you are inside of a Host and you can always access a Host even if it is silent because there is no physical distance.

So either you have a device that is just sitting on a table somewhere not connected to anything and you need the technoman to push the button (almost) physically or it is slaved to a Host surrounded by virtual environment and the decker can access it anywhere.

The later generates meaningful content for player decker while the former could be delegated to a prebaked agent program given by the Johnson.
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>>67205948
>Enchanting is pretty busted, that's correct. Doesn't bother us much though since it's not really a "PC thing" to do.
Says you. The Blacksmith from ED is fun. Artificer from D&D is fun. Shadowrun deserves good enchanting rules that PCs can actually make use of. Or that the GM can actually use for their NPCs.
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>>67206080
>you can always access a Host even if it is silent because there is no physical distance.
Good luck busting the firewall.
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>>67206567
Not that hard with edge and near infinite tries. You only need to beat it once to get the mark and the host can't fight back against someone hammering from the outside and reseting between tries. After that you don't have to see that Host firewall ever again.
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>>67206712
Okay, let's just ignore the multitude of actions you will likely want to take inside the host that, once again, pit you against its firewall. You really want to reduce how many times you have to deal with it.
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>>67207168
Which ones? You have direct connection to every slaved device so they don't get to use it. IC launch every turn and if the firewall is something like 14 you aren't fighting them anyway.

Every situation you need to deal with host stats inside host itself is the same no matter how you access it.
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>>67207427
>Which ones?
Try looking at the matrix actions.
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>>67207450
No I meant which action that takes into account Host stats in such a way that it matters whether you access locally or remotely.
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>>67207555
Any of the ones that bring up the firewall as a defense.
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>>67207573
If the device is in WAN and you are in the Host you are directly connected so it doesn't get to use Host stats.
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>>67207609
>device
Always the device with you. Please read the matrix again, there are things in the host itself you have to deal with that are not devices, so they get to use the Host stats.
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>>67207664
If you aren't dealing with devices then you deal with files and you don't need to do any illegal actions other than Marking for Crack File (which is illegal but done against its own protection rating.). Still the defense pools stay the same no matter how you enter.
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>>67208002
Please read again. Or at least download the matrix cheat sheet so you can see exactly which actions pit you against the firewall. This is embarrassing.
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NEW THREAD:
>>67208171
>>67208171
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>>67208177
>page 10
Cancerous as always. Have a goddamn ounce of patience. Wait until the current thread is archived.
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>>67208148
Nah, marking actions are the only meaningful ones done against Firewall, Edit File is technically too but because it is legal it is basically a null action as there are no repercussions it just wastes time. You dont' want to touch the IC because it is waste of time so Data Spike is out. Either way nothing you do in host gives a singular fuck about how you enter.

The whole discussion about which stats target firewall and which don't also doesn't have anything to do with remote hacking being always better when dealing with hosts. The stats are all derived with the same formula and are nearly identical. Firewall might be few points higher than sleaze but when dealing with 10+ Hosts it is pretty neglible whether the defense pool is ~20 or ~23. If you hack locally you need to get in and out, you need actual fighting and infiltration skills and so on. If you just sit home you can dump body and agi and cha and str and be barely functional brain in the jar and still have better success rate than on site hacker because you have no distractions and can use all your edge on your actual job.
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>>67208288
You really need to reread the matrix chapter instead of spending, what, over an hour and a half trying to pretend otherwise.



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