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File: vidiians.jpg (272 KB, 1100x500)
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Melty Space Cannibals Edition

Previous Thread: >>66517077

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

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Thread Topic: How would the Federation respond to a species like the Vidiians on their doorstep?
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>>66609914
>How would the Federation respond to a species like the Vidiians on their doorstep?
Defend their people against any raids while attempting to reach out to any Vidiians willing to work peacefully. Voyager was one ship with a limited sickbay and a holographic emergency doctor. But having the full resources of the Federation for medical research? Phage would be cured within a year.

Side note: Immensely disappointed that STO never showed the post-Phage Vidiians since Think Tank mentioned that the Phage had been cured. Would be interesting to see what the Think Tank's real price was for doing that, how Vidiian society would've adjusted to now not having to raid other species for body parts (as well as other species' lingering distrust/hatred for the Vidiians) and whether they could help with other medical problems such as the Kobali bullshit.
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>>66609914
“Listen, we’ve already dedicated a significant portion of Starfleet Medical to investigating your species’ condition and looking for a cure. But we’re not going to stop crippling your raiding parties at the border after the second time you broke treaty and harvested a colony of civilians for spare parts. Have a little dignity.”
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>>66609914
>How would the Federation respond to a species like the Vidiians on their doorstep?
Probably put a stop to their raiding and put Starfleet Medical on the case as a diplomatic gesture to get them to stop fucking attacking randomly. I feel like this is a battle to be won in the diplomatic arena, not the space combat one, and diplomacy is the UFP's biggest fist so they should have few issues here.
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>>66610093
>>66610019
Given how debilitating the Phage is and how reliant they are on body snatcher raids, it wouldn't surprise me if any central Vidiian government is either vestigial or nonexistent. They'd be like Hirogen with cancer. Any progress to be made with the Vidiians would need to come from appealing to individuals or small groups.

It's weird, I actually think the Vidiians would've been much more interesting as a TNG race. Not even in the sense of "well obviously TNG is better written than Voyager" but also in the sense of they could get multiple episodes worth of ethical dilemmas out of the Vidiians instead of having them just be a boogeyman body snatcher bad guy race because Voyager can't stick around.
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>>66610480
I feel like word of "the Federation is fixing the phage" would spread in the Vidiian communities pretty quickly. Once a cure was a thing, the Vidiians would very quickly chill the fuck out. The trick is that the Federation would just have to fight off a lot of them in the meanwhile.
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>>66609914
>Thread Topic: How would the Federation respond to a species like the Vidiians on their doorstep?

My doctor tells me this medicine will help ease the symptoms for a decade, maybe more. A lot can happen in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if you developed a cure on your own.
>>
Looking it up there's very little on what the phage is to work with. It kills 1000s a day? Cancer kills over 25,000. I know relative population values, but it can't be that devastating, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to survive it for 2000 years. Then there's also the matter of wanting to do research on a Klingon because their immune system might be able to fight off the phage, which carries with it the implication that any non-Klingon who interacted with them might have been infected and doomed.
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>>66610884
Do you want Breen? Because this is how you get Been.

>>66611323
Who knows, maybe if they've been suffering from it for 2000 years there are a lot less of them around. Regardless they're still the most advanced species in their region of space besides the Space Hedonist Douchebags so they can throw their weight around.
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Something fun I found on Discord today.
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>>66610015
I was kinda disappointed they used the Vaadwaur as the big bad in the Delta Quadrant expansion. It should have been the Kobali with the roles reversed .
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>>66613548
Nah, Kobali would've been boring as straight-up bad guys. "Oh no they're robbing our corpses how evil" is pretty schlock even for Trek, and it's a lot more interesting presenting them as being on the protagonist's side because it allows them to better address and flesh out that whole issue, though I don't think STO did that part well enough.
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>>66613548
Probably should have been the Krenim or the Devore. A sizeable power that we already now to have an opressive, conquest-centric mindset. The Vaudwaar were too few in number to be a serious threat and the Kobali arguably suffer from the same problem.
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>>66615019
>The Vaudwaar were too few in number to be a serious threat
This was pretty obviously intentional on STO's part since they were still ramping up to the Iconian bullshittery. The Vaadwaur themselves don't matter and in fact there are plenty of times where it's brought up that they literally should not in any conceivable way be this numerous, powerful, or influential. The entire thing is about beating them to figure out who's behind them.
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>>66612116
Makes you wonder how big the Vidiians were at their height since they've supposedly had to deal with the Phage for two thousand years and are still that powerful.
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Was THIS the crew you were looking for for your Post (or pre) Federation game?
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>>66613602
Also Kobali in or around UFP space are near Klingon space. Klingons don't care about their corpses, Kobali could trade technical skills for meat and everyone is happy.
>>
How far in the future of star trek do you reasonably have to go to get post-federation without time travel/alternate timeline shenanigans being the cause?

What could actually cause it to collapse in a way that isn't basically exterminating and enslaving everything there?
Even if more than one major core member like Vulcan or Andor were to leave, there's still a lot of other members that would want to stay/reform/re-grow?
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>>66615448
Realist answer: all empires fall eventually.
Roddenberrian answer: won't ever happen, all species seek peace and unite over the long term so you'll just have to keep expanding the scope. Instead of Humanocentric Federation vs warlike Klingons, you'd just move to Milky Way-centric Federation vs warlike Canis Majorians.
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>>66615505
Expansion into Andromeda when? I feel like the Kelvans could really use a good, violent civilizing, assuming they haven't died from radiation poisoning yet.
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>>66615448
I'd set it around the 3500s and I'd still have the Federation be a thing but have it be basically alien to what it once was. Not like "oh we're the Dominion now" or any shit like that but I'd have a bunch of new nations having risen out of what the Federation made possible. Reunified Vulcan Romulan state. An economic bloc of worlds like Tellar, Ferenginar and Cardassia. Restored Suliban Sovreignity and a bunch of other factions. The Federation itself would mostly just be a go-between. A bunch of Human-centric words dotted around local space, largely tied together by trade routes and mutual defence.
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>>66615424
>Klingons don't care about their corpses
This is something that could be touched on in more detail. Yes, the Klingons generally don't care about the corpse because the spirit is what's important and a dead body is just an empty shell. However, the fuck-ups in the Kobali reanimation process with Jhetlaya and the other Harry, the Klingons could just as easily see the reanimation process as not only keeping the Klingon soul from proceeding to the afterlife but straight up warping that soul so it's no longer Klingon, which could very well spark the closest thing to a holy war that the Klingons would be capable of.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCARADb9asE
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>>66609914
>How would the Federation respond to a species like the Vidiians on their doorstep?

There's those slugs from ENT that could be used to culture new organs that Dr. Phlox used to save Trip. Give those to the Vidiians?

Also I'm not really sure why replicators can't replicate functional organs when they can replicate Klingon cuisine.

Failing that, Dr. Bashir created a clone on a lark one time with seemingly little difficulty and some crimesters made a clone with seemingly no trouble either.

Getting them fresh meat seems like it ought to be incredibly trivial.
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>>66618100
>Also I'm not really sure why replicators can't replicate functional organs when they can replicate Klingon cuisine.
Not living Klingon cuisine. All that replicated food didn't prepare Riker for the realization that some of the food is still alive.
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How often have aquatic species and/or settings come up? All I can remember is that Voyager episode where Tom becomes a political terrorist for a day or something.

I'm trying to brainstorm a STA mission with odd but well-meaning squid people.
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>>66620749
IIRC the Ophion/Amalthea group literally had a whole "season" about aquatic folks. Might be worth checking them out for ideas or grabbing whichever one of them frequents these threads.
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>>66616604
It would require the Kobali to be more careful about their reanimation process, this is true. Possibly even tweak it a little to prevent "second death" or whatever you want to call it.

But this would require the Kobali to not be morons and I don't think they can. If they could adapt they would just use clones or adopt a primitive society and socially engineer them to accept that their corpses are offered after death.
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>>66620749
There’s the Aquatic Xindi in Enterprise. If you’re looking for ship design.
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How would ships from each of the other Alpha Quadrant powers have acted had they been stuck in the Delta Quadrant under the same circumstances as the Voyager? Let’s say they’re roughly equivalent to Voyager in crew compliment so
>a KDF K’Tinga
>a Romulan Navy Mogai (or some Beta Canon ship I’m unaware of)
>a Cardassian Galor
>a Ferengi Marauder
>a Breen Chel Grett
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>>66615448
From what we've seen in that "Calypso" Discovery short, apparently 33rd century.
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>>66615448
I recall there being an unused concept for a Trek cartoon where the warp drive subspace fuckery from that one season 7 TNG episode spread like crazy. It wasn't completely post-Federation, Starfleet and the like still existed, but the Federation as-we-know-it ended up being nearly unrecognizable with drastic changes, including the Vulcans leaving.
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>>66621449
>clones
I’d wager that’s how they fucked up in the first place
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How do you think the Dominion would fare against the Borg?
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>>66623504
>Klingons/Romulans
Wasn't there a plot where one Ktinga showed up carrying pilgrims? Both the Klingons and Romulans have the advantage of a cloaking device which would let them avoid some issues.
>Ferengi
Wheel and deal across the quadrant. Sell shitty weapons and replicators to the Kazon in exchange for muslce. Similar deals with the Talaxains and other merchnatile groups to get accutate star charts, guides, and mercenaries.
I can't really speak for the Cardassians or Breen, but the latter have their disabler.
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>>66625958
short term, the Dominion military would be well suited to counter traditional Borg attacks, willingly sacrificing ships in suicide attacks and operating a force of soldiers that could self-terminate before assimilation. But as with any force, the Borg would adapt to this strategy and turn the Dominions numbers into a meaningless advantage.
The real question is whether the Borg could assimilate changelings. Gaining access to the knowledge of the great link could be huge for them.
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>>66627361
>The real question is whether the Borg could assimilate changelings
Changelings are unusual but nanoprobes are literally magic so I'm giving it to the Borg. I also find it likely that the Borg would have encountered a similarly morphic species in their history and would be prepared for such things. The question really is: do assimilated changelings have the ability to link? Or does the assimilation process remove that ability?
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>>66627527
I bet they could, but there wouldn’t be any of the same reason. It would now be another way to assimilate things
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>>66627571
Speaking of assimilating things - why didn't the Borg ever develop a nanoprobe bullet? As in you shoot someone/something and the payload assimilates them at range.
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>>66628275
Because the Borg aren't really into Assimilation.
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>>66628305
It is DEFINITELY one of the Borg's core kinks, my man. Maybe it isn't the only jam but it definitely has importance to them.
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>>66628275
No reason to. One drone dying is meaningless so just swarming people with drones is a valid tactic. Borg are on the verge of being unbeatable through sheer numbers, tactics don't play much of a part if you have as many troops as they have.
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>>66628418
Entering headcannon territory here, but the best Borg is grown to be a Borg. Borg want cultures to adapt to service them, not cease to exist. The borg dream is a planet that rolls over into servitude, then we can speculate maybe sterilized, and any population loss replaced with newly grown Borg, which may have had any beneficial genes from this race spliced in.
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>>66628275
Because assimilation was supposed to be a means to an end and not the end itself, which of course is one of the many things Voyager (and honestly even First Contact) completely fucked up with.
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Just got a couple Starfleet models in from Shapeways and they’re pretty sweet at first glance. Hoping to have something more than clear plastic ships to post by next week.
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>>66631609
What models did you get?
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>>66630274

Assimilation in First Contact wasn't the problem.
The Borg were isolated and had very limited resources, so nabbing red shirts is a sound move.
The real problem is time travel.
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>>66631648
1:7000 scale New Orleans and Akira. I might order more if I like how these paint up because who really needs to spend money on food?
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>>66631883
That still leaves the question of why the Borg left a potential threat on board the ship rather than just assimilating everything once they built up steam.
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>>66631404
you can't take the sky from me.
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*finds you in abeyance*
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>>66634834
Those dudes were fairly neat. I wouldn't mind seeing another take on them just as a flavor of the week ayylmao.
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Post cute Vulcans.
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>>66637461

What's with Trek fans that hate black people? There's never been a trek show without a black in the main cast.

What is wrong with you
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>>66637700
He's baiting, anon. Posting screencaps of paid shill clickbait is the second giveaway.
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>>66637700
Well, for a certain value of main cast. Poor Anthony Montgomery.
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>>66637695
>Girl
>Wearing the male 23rd Century Uniform

Heretical. Illogical. Supremely cultured.
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>>66637700
Hitler Trek didn't. That one just had Hitlers. Thousands of cloned Hitlers, flying a starship through the perilous depths of space. It was pretty fun.
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>>66633696
The Borg are always like that. They get enough for optimal function, then don't give a fuck about the rest. The plan was to use Enterprise's deflector dish as an antenna, and apparently that needed all but a fifth of the crew for... reasons.

>>66638128
There's nothing saying that women had to wear the miniskirt. Hell Number One doesn't after all. Maybe that Vulcan just doesn't want her male shipmates frantically cranking one out to her gams all the time?
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>>66638183
>Dump a Hitler clone on every inhabited planet in the galaxy
>Gather them all up again a decade later to see how they've changed through their experiences
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>>66638378
Or she's cold. Vulcan is very warm, Andoria is not and there are Andorians in the crew.

Do not touch the thermostat.
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>>66635939
I think it’d be hard to reuse them in a new way. The point of the Sheliak is that they’re so alien as to think in an incomprehensible way. Any diplomatic relations with them are nigh impossible because they find us unbearable. “You do not talk. You gibber.”
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>>66623504
A good alternate way that Voyager could have gone is that if they encountered the Galor that the Caretaker had taken not long before Voyager. It had engine trouble, supply issues and they find the ship drifting in interstellar space where it had been for the last two months, the remainder of the crew huddled around the dying engine.

Voyager fixes it up and they both decide to that they are more likely to make it home together than alone. As time goes on they accumulate more ships.
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>>66638378
apparently that needed all but a fifth of the crew for... reasons.
I got the impression that after a minimum number of drones the Borg kept assimilating crew because they were I'm the way and it wasn't inconvenient for them to do so. Once they'd overrun the parts of the ship they needed and had enough manpower they just stopped because anything more was unnecessary to the current goal.
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>>66641842
Surely the rest of the crew would still be considered a threat though
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>>66641944
The Borg seem to continuously underrate the threat posed by Starfleet personnel throughout the shows.
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>>66642541
Or maybe they have faced worse odds before and because of that starfleet doesn't go too far up in their threat scale.
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>>66642663

The Borg also wouldve been wiped out if Voyager had not been there
>>
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>>66639203
>Bajorian Hitler and Cardassian Hitler run into each other during the Occupation
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>>66644722
>It's just Dukat talking to himself in the mirror
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>>66637695
>you will never befriend an old Vulcan who has learned how to laugh
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>>66645644
It is logical to develop such a skill.
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>>66625727
I was thinking more of cloning a regular person, growing the clone in a tank at an accelerated rate in a coma, cleanly killing it when it achieves physical maturity and then infecting it with the Kobali.
>>
Did the Kobali ever get an origin? I'm going with the default assumption that STO did something and it was shit and not worth mentioning though.

Seems like something that could be interesting to examine why they are how they are. A species that propagates via the dead of humanoids seems like something that could have only come around as designed. Their traits of having ingrained knowledge of their civilisation (language for one very complex thing) also lean that way.

Perhaps they were a response to a civilisation that was going extinct from some plague, but found a way to circumvent that? Or started out as one of those classic comic-book undead soldier projects that grew into something that outlasted its creators?
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>>66648490
>Did the Kobali ever get an origin? I'm going with the default assumption that STO did something and it was shit and not worth mentioning though.
According to STO, botched genetic engineering on a species-wide level that rendered them all sterile. Not the most retarded explanation considering Enterprise invented the Klingon augment flu.
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>>66648490
I don't remember what was said about them from the Voyager episode.
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>>66641202
This would work well for the Franklin Expedition as well:
any warp-capable but technologically inferior factions trapped within the Badlands could join the group pathfinding through the area, or follow the transponder trail they laid as they came in and relay information from the Excelsiors back to Starfleet
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>>66650106
Many things would have improved VOY. A 23c Atlas getting taking 70 years to get home only to find that it's not the home they left could have been good.
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>>66649338
Not much, the episode was more about the social issues and took a very peculiar but surprisingly typical stance that I am not sure was intended of 'stay with your own kind' coupled with 'you are your parents property', and featured some incredibly unflattering characterisations of the main crew, such as Torres who despite being somewhat of an outcast with parents she didn't get on with and a genetic heritage she was very unhappy with, offered less than no sympathy towards the formerly deceased crewmember for no explained reason. Oh and forcing the person to look human via constant medication for basically no reason.

Basically it was typical Voyager; interesting idea, mediocre execution, utterly horrific morality on closer examination.

Mostly what was covered comes down to the Kobali being a species that reproduces by use of a "genetic pathogen" that's inserted into a deceased person up to two weeks from their demise. It seems to take the material of the body and does... something.

At that point pretty much every cell should be dead iirc, unlike say Nelix's temporary death before resurrection via Borg nanoprobe repair job, so it's using a body more as fuel for regrowing into a new person, somehow using that existing genetic structure whilst over-writing it. But it also can retain memories from the deceased person. Usually not much memory but still, the way star trek treats minds isn't anything like reality and thought being separate from meat is pretty typical stuff.
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Hey guys, does anyone know how you restore TV jumping powers, ever since I was a little kid i had the ability to sit in front of a tv and then I would float into the scene that was being played as a background character or extra. it was pretty cool, everything I did had to be by the book or else characters would notice i was there and they would start screaming and then id wake up with a massive splitting headache outside usually. one time it was in my neighbors house and they were shaking me. the best thing was to come in during sleeping scenes, but let me tell you something about star trek characters: they smelled like SHIT it was so awful, especially dianna troi who always smelled like rotten eggs and i would sometimes gag really hard and have to stop what I was doing and jump out


anyway i told some kids around the neighborhood when i was younger and they told me they did it too, but it was too dangerous to do it in cartoons. i was homeschooled my whole life and when i asked them how their tv jumping was going lately after graduation, as i had just started enterprise and it was great they told me that i was lying. i tried to jump into an episode of enterprise that night (dear doctor) but i fucked up the plot and ended up in traffic. i explained to the doctor what happened to me and i wasnt allowed to leave the hospital for a long time, they made me take pills a lot and i remember shock therapy. i really miss this ability to jump into tv shows and am just wondering if anyone here had similar success regaining their powers???
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>>66651697
Ah, this pasta again. Haven't seen this in many a moon.
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>>66610015
We don't really know that anything the Think Tank claimed to have achieved was true, or lasting, or that they didn't reverse it on receipt of payment just to amuse themselves. They were certainly duplicitous and willing to kill simply to get hold of something they wanted.
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>>66610884
Phlox never demonstrated a cure, or went into any detail about how his supposed cure would work. He certainly didn't have one capable of treating billions of individuals, because even at the scale of say a single chemo dose you just couldn't fit it all on board, or even the precusors to it. Basically you're talking out of your ass and being over-literal about a line from a script which is never elaborated on, and you're doing it to try and invoke the Prime Directive (which didn't exist for Archer, who had to decide if his ship, at that time the only one even capable of reaching that planet from Earth, would stay to help for however long it took, sharing whatever tech they had with the much less advanced civilization). But the Prime Directive is fundamental to Star Trek and only rarely broken, and in any case doesn't apply to the Vidiians, who are warp-capable when Voyager first encounters them and thus deemed to have reached a technological level at which they are as a species socially mature enough to handle reality-warping technology and should be talked to.

Tragedies happen on pre-warp worlds all the time. You going to give Picard shit for not taking shuttles to backwater planets to play Batman on his leave? Of course not. You going to give Crusher shit for literally performing medical experiments on the crew without their informed consent? Of course not. Bitch turned Barclay into a spider and Worf into a fuck knows what, probably another spider. Crewmembers died. A baby had to be experimented on to cure the survivors. Crusher didn't even get reprimanded.

You want to know what Phlox did wrong? He didn't spend four fucking hours giving you a pre-med ethics lecture that would have left you with sufficient frame of reference to understand what he actually said, you just went hyper-literal over it.

>>66615448
A week. Per Parallels, infinite realities exist simultaneously. Per every time travel episode, the future can be changed by time travelers.
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>>66627121
>>66623504
The Ferengi we already know wouldn't even try to get home. They're non-selective in terms of females (and there wouldn't be any female Ferengi on their ship, unless they were pretending to be males) and will settle anywhere they think they can gain the greatest advantage.

The Romulans would probably pull up everything they had on wormholes and figure out a way to engineer one. That's probably how their star blew up, if we're being honest. Had to get ahead of that transwarp tech Voyager brought back - they've always been very interested in Voyager.

Klingons I think would settle. There's a fair mix of males and females and their culture is highly mobile, tied to behavior, not places. They might seek allies with a similar culture, but I don't think they'd try to go the whole distance.

Breen we really can't say, since they're basically glorified extras.

Cardassians... I think would try to get home, but it would depend on the commander. Someone like Dukat might hold enough sway to just get them to do whatever.
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>>66652340
>this triggered over a Dear Doctor joke
Holy autism, Batman! Chill out man, anon clearly said it as a joke, no one wants to have that argument *again*.

>>66623504
The Klingons would probably conquer some backwards fucks and settle down to form a new Empire in the Delta Quadrant with dreams of one day linking up with the Alpha Quadrant empire and expanding Klingon dominion across the stars.

The Romulans try to broker deals and do bargains and trades to try and get home any way they can. They also probably eventually run into the Borg and promptly die because they don't have Voyager's plot armor and the Borg aren't gonna fuck around with a Mogai in their space.

The Cardies probably help the Kazon kill the Caretaker and scavenge what they can from the array to build their own way home. If that fails, they set off to find the other Caretaker and take a way home off her corpse. If *that* fails, they pull a Voyager and just start off for home. They probably don't get too far because they piss someone off and go down swinging.

The Ferengi do precisely what we see the Ferengi doing in Voyager: scamming people and lording it over the plebs they run into. They try to form a business empire and live like god-kings.

The Breen have far too little info to go on other than "they do something opportunistic and dickish at every possible chance".
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>>66652161
It's more interesting to assume they didn't lie about it and did properly fix the Vidiians though. Creates interesting consequences via the radical societal shifts they'd inevitably undergo.
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>>66652433
I've always been curious as to how the Klingons would react to the Kazon. The Kazon are basically to Klingons what most of the minor-differences rubber forehead aliens are to humans like Trill and Betazoids. They're what a pre-FTL Klingon empire might imagine aliens would look and act like.
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>>66653613
>I've always been curious as to how the Klingons would react to the Kazon
Dishonorable curs, fit only for subjugation.
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>>66641944
Looked at logically, the Borg had already won in their eyes. They had de facto control of the ship and it was only a matter of time until they broke the computer lock and gained total control. They overran the ship in what, a handful of hours, and the one counter attack was wiped out. Even loosing the defector dish was just a small setback and they could have reversed that by hopping in a shuttle and attacking the Phoenix complex again. Or hell piling a bunch of drones into a couple of shuttles and landing them somewhere on Earth. The one reason the Borg were defeated was Data bluffing the queen.
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>>66653934
Why the fuck did the Borg decide to fuck the timeline in the interest of assimilating shitty post-WWIII pre-UFP humanity anyway? It’s not like they’re in it for their brains, since the Borg don’t innovate.
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>>66654126
Because implicitly the Collective was as pissed as it possibly could be over Picard leaving it. Also, the formation of the Federation does seriously set back half of its goals, though the lack of advanced technology means that their second goal of technological distinctiveness is gone. First Contact is really weak in the rationale for its plot.
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>>66654575
>First Contact is really weak in the rationale for its plot.
As somebody who grew up with the TNG movies, Voyager, and a VHS library of the TOS movies, it kinda stings looking back and seeing how much nuance and worldbuilding died in the late 90s/00s to bring us “da cool ‘splosions”
>>
The only way post-Q Who Borg make sense in general is if you assume everything is a carefully calculated series of ploys meant not to seriously assimilate the Federation, but to spark the Federation to gets its asses in gear and develop technologically until they're worth fully assimilating.
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>>66654645
The sad part is that Generations is a fairly high to middling episode. I'd rank it just below the best two parters in the series based on spectacle alone. First Contact actually has fairly fluid scenes that do a damn good job of moving the plot along fast enough to make you forget how thin its plot is. The same can't be said for Insurrection or Nemesis. As always, I really recommend reading Fade In to see how Trek was absolutely fucked over by everyone short of maybe Michael Piller.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/0ya4yl829zlx1fh/FadeIn.pdf/file
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>>66654686
I mean, the Federation gave them the technology they needed to fight Predator. I'm sure even losing a Unimatrix was ultimately worth it for that alone.
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>>66654716
I actually don't mind Generations either. You and I are in a small club though, Generations is pretty universally panned. First Contact is honestly not that great unless you want Die Hard On a Spaceship, which is all that movie honestly is. Insurrection I'm partial to but it's a fairly quiet somewhat boring movie (though the Ent-E combat scene was pretty great). Finally, there's Nemesis. Less said there the better.
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>>66655664
I'll be the third to speak up and say Generations is my favorite TNG movie.

Insurrection, on the other hand...
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>>66655664
>>66655750
4thing for Generations being the favorite TNG film.
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First Contact is my favorite DS9 movie
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>>66655769
>Tough little ship.
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>>66655769
You just know Sisko was champing at the bit to go after those bodyjacking fucks himself
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The TNG movies sucked. The TOS movies were a gateway for me to watch OG trek.
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>>66657150
I thought First Contact was a good movie, just not a good TNG movie.

TOS movies were kind of better so long as you don't include The Motionless Picture and Spock Has a Half-Brother He Never Mentioned in 50 Years.
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>>66654575
>their second goal of technological distinctiveness is gone
Incorrect, as the Borg had already assimilated human technology and humans at that point. Said technological distinctiveness already existed within the Collective, so assimilating Earth in the past wouldn't matter.
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>>66657380
I'll be honest, I can't stand IV.
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>>66657380
I can't feel too bad about Suddenly Sybok when a few years before we had Suddenly David. And Spock didn't even tell Kirk that his dad was one of the more famous diplomats in the Federation; why would he tell them about the black sheep older half-brother that had been literally banished for being a heretic?
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>>66657830
>tfw Burnham caused Sybok to become a heretic
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>>66657150
My main takeaway from the movies is that movies are not a good format for Star Trek. I like Generations more than any TOS movie.
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>>66658493
I disagree. Movies can basically just be seen as feature length episodes with extra budget out the ass. The problem is not making a Star Trek movie that actually means something, and instead falling for the summer blockbuster splosions shit.
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>>66658642
The problem is you can't justify the higher budget unless you're bringing in many more people with a blockbuster film. By its very nature the movie is going to result in a shittier story.
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>>66658755
The solution is to fire every marketing executive.
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>>66660574
Out of a catapult for preference.
>>
What happened with star trek movies is just a consequence of how movie (and certain other entertainment industries, in particular videogames has suffered from it in a huge way) making has shifted into a very high/very low budget system with far less of a middle-ground going on except where it's for prestige and passion projects, and very few of those are sci-fi, which suffers hugely from trying to make the next transformers/star wars/superhero gigantic box office return of the year.

Recent movie history is full of over-budgeted flops in the sci-fi department. The John Carter of mars film being a very notable one that catastrophically bombed because too much money was pumped into it trying to fix it, Star Trek Beyond being not a bad movie but far over budget couldn't possibly achieve investor expectations. most of the ones that actually have done consistently well compared to their budget have been comparatively low budget and almost all horror focused.

As it is, I don't think Star Trek can succeed in this current environment of movie making.
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>The premise of Generations is bretty good
>The cinematography and audio is top-notch
>The acting is better than average for Trek
It seems to me that the only issues were poor pacing (feels like it was cobbled together from a three-parter TNG episode); all the plot elements are fine, they just need to be reworked
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>>66663027
>all the plot elements are fine
I really wouldn't agree with that, though maybe it's because the tagline of "Picard teams up with Kirk!" implies a level of stakes higher than "mad scientist tries to destroy a planet of nobodies so he can go to Lotus-Eater Heaven." There's really no meat to the movie other than "Kirk and Picard punch a dude."
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>>66663423
Considering they directly went from writing all of Season 7 to writing Generations within two weeks, I'm surprised the movie is as coherent as it is.
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>>66662884
>The John Carter of mars film being a very notable one that catastrophically bombed because too much money was pumped into it trying to fix it,

I was sad that flopped. i enjoyed it immensely.
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>>66663027
Generations is a movie I have spent far too much time thinking about. I think they really did the best with what they had but what they had was not great material.

Generations suffered from perhaps over-development; All Good Things was done in a fraction of the time at the same time they were working on scripting Generations. The premise of a crossover between different eras of star trek isn't a bad one, but it wasn't used well at all. Kirk's presence doesn't add all that much to the story except give him a definitive end that wasn't needed. The hand-off to the Enterprise B was a good idea, but as hamstrung by too many excuses for what happened. All that why they can't do X or Y but they're the only one around to do something was just trite, overplayed and messy.

Another major problem is stakes and investment. The Duras sisters were terribly used and the battle with them was bullshit. And a lot of that, like many other problems along the way, comes down to the writers trying to subvert expectations, like not turning up in time to save the research station crew. Sometimes expectations and following tropes are all that's needed as long as they're done well. Like they could have simply had a nice conventional battle with a decent Klingon ship like a Vor'Cha, maybe even with the same cunning and trickery involved. But what we got felt like a final insult to the Enterprise D, going down like a chump because Riker couldn't simply order them to shoot back with everything and instead had to technobabble a solution.

There's just so many things wrong with the filmed material that there's no real way to get better than what we had. Unlike Nemesis which could have been improved a bit by simply editing it differently, using more of the material that was cut that contained important character moments and removing more questionable elements. Or Insurrection which could have had the same treatment in editing plus not cutting the budget at the last minute.
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>>66663560
>season 7 of TNG
>season 2 of DS9
>season 1 of Voyager
>Generations
>all being worked on at the same time
God that period was a clusterfuck.
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>>66663619
I feel like you could kill two birds with one stone by upping the threat that the Klingons pose and simultaneously making Kirk more useful:
>The Duras sisters have a LOT of old ships (K'tingas and B'rels) and the shat-man knows how to take them down, but the only way the Ent-D can do it is by disabling safety interlocks to flood the area with a form of radiation that destabilizes Klingon Warp Cores
>Kirk, echoing Spock in II and himself saving the Ent-B, figures there's no room for a relic like him in the future and sacrifices himself in a final no-win scenario with a smile on his face as he realizes there's another Enterprise
>>
I know Trek writers have an irrational hatred of the Romulans, but imo the biggest missed opportunity was making the crossover "Kirk and Picard" and not "Kirk and Worf", especially coming off of Undiscovered Country. Have the main plot be about some militant Romulan faction trying to push for a renewed war, trying to coordinate a massive false flag attack and luring the Enterprise in to take the fall. Kirk shows up somehow. Picard is the captain and diplomat dealing with things from the ship, while Kirk and Worf lead the away team to stop the attack. They link up with a faction of Romulans who want peace and want to stop this attack as well (similar to the Enterprise teaming with Donatra against Shinzon), with Worf having to get over his hatred of the Romulans the same way Kirk had to get over his hatred of the Klingons.

But this pitch wouldn't work because it has the Romulans, and doesn't have Data pandering or a nonsensical Picard action sequence.
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>>66663583
There's the thing, it wasn't a terrible movie. But it was cursed because of the troubled development and the mad solution not to cut back and rework but to just keep throwing money at it out of all proportion to reasonable expectations, which also helped fuck it because news of that and its other development problems helped put people off bothering to watch it.

Much like Beyond, though that had Into Darkness really fucking it over.

>>66663816
I had a similar idea once where instead of being on the planet, Kirk takes command of the badly damaged drive section to cover the escape of the saucer section, where previously events made it that because that didn't happen, Picard couldn't stop the sun-go-boom missile somehow. Maybe Picard needed to secretly plant a beacon on the missile so Enterprise could destroy it after launch?

But I don't know if Kirk dying to save people from Klingons is thematically appropriate for his character following STVI, even if him dying on the bridge of an Enterprise, even if it's not his, is incredibly appropriate.
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>>66663583
John Carter was fucking amazing and I will never not love that movie.
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Say what you will about STD, but this was an interesting premise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FEMdqbLQBw
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>>66656002
Picard’s Ahab-routine would have made way more sense for Sisko.
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>>66665291
What if the Defiant was commanded by Sisko at Sector 001 with Worf at tactical?
>Mirroring the start of DS9, Stewart and Brooks must play off of each other
Picard tries to convince Sisko to help restore the timeline as the latter wants nothing more but to rampage through the E killing Borg
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>>66665421
I’d watch the shit out of that is what would happen.
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>>66665493
Heck, maybe we get to see Sisko get over his dislike for Picard after witnessing the (deeply repressed) murderboner he has for them
>just because I try to be dignified does not mean I do not hold the same hate and rage in my heart as you
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>>66665421
Just as well, maybe the Defiant comes out less damaged since he knows the limits of the ship. To my knowledge, this is the class's first encounter with the Borg.
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My rough draft of a 24th-century Excelsior refit: Yea or Nay?
>deflector dish now a slipstream slit for proper transwarp POWAH
>has a conventional aft shuttlebay made from the repurposed "neck"
>Prometheus nacelles were already the right size, no wacky scaling
>underslung warp "hub" now fills out the ridiculous (but pretty) fantail
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>>66663994
>Much like Beyond, though that had Into Darkness really fucking it over.

Into Darkness was the most successful Trek movie ever made.

>>66663994
>But I don't know if Kirk dying to save people from Klingons is thematically appropriate

Remove Duras sisters, insert Tomalok. Problem solved!

>>66666396
Honestly I think the Excelsior shape doesn't work with 24th century aesthetics.
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>>66667318
>Into Darkness was the most successful Trek movie ever made.

Yes, and that was a huge part of the problems for Beyond, investors/executives wanted, needed that again but the people making Beyond were in no position to replicate that no matter how much money was thrown at it.

Beyond made some money, but it didn't make ALL the money. $124 million less than Into Darkness whilst costing about as much to make, at a time where Paramount needed, not just wanted, big successes.
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>>66667318
>Honestly I think the Excelsior shape doesn't work with 24th century aesthetics.
She's got the lines to be a Sovereign-lite
With a modern powerplant, she'd make the same speed at twice the tonnage (internal volume? displacement? space is weird) as Voyager thanks to the more efficient elongated Connie form factor
Probably takes less resources to overhaul an existing Excelsior hull than build a new Prometheus or Intrepid from scratch, especially since the frame is allegedly modular
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>>66669014
With the shuttlebay under the fantail, it would be interesting to see a hot rod Excelsior with the fantail cut off and the nacelle struts mounted to the "lip" of the secondary hull for a mini-Galaxy look
The same core could push less mass faster, and the smaller profile makes the shield generators over-rated and thus super-effective
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>>66669014
It's the primary to secondary hull ratio that is so very off.

>Probably takes less resources to overhaul an existing Excelsior hull than build a new Prometheus or Intrepid from scratch,

If this were true then they wouldn't have built any of the newer ships.
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>>66666396
I want to see a 3 plan view before I get all judgemental.

>>66669014
With a modern powerplant, she'd make the same speed at twice the tonnage (internal volume? displacement? space is weird) as Voyager thanks to the more efficient elongated Connie form factor

Putting a newer powerplant in it isn't a one-stop-solution for making an old ship as fast as a new one. There's the hullform/warp bubble relationship for a big one, and simply the hull's ability to take the stresses involved or safely manage the increased power output.

It could easily be more work than simply building a new ship because they'd have to gut the entire thing to replace everything needed to bring it up to spec. Like you can't go sticking a powerplant from a WW2 era heavy cruiser into a 1900 era heavy cruiser of the same tonnage and expect it to perform even remotely similarly.
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>>66669320
>I want to see a 3 plan view before I get all judgmental.
Sorry, top's not done; have pic related, a quick take on >>66669052
>nacelles a bit long, may shorten them - maybe no need for as many coils with a smaller bubble?

>Putting a newer powerplant in it isn't a one-stop-solution for making an old ship as fast as a new one. There's the hullform/warp bubble relationship for a big one, and simply the hull's ability to take the stresses involved or safely manage the increased power output.
The nacelles and warp core together determine the strength and size/shape of the field, and the Excelsior frame has shown itself to be very durable+flexible time and again: I'm sure slapping on the modular Prometheus Power Pack would be worth it
>The Lakota was supposedly a refit rather than built in the Ent-B configuration, and her new powerplant readily supplied enough juice for modern phasers
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>>66669524
>I'm sure slapping on the modular Prometheus Power Pack would be worth it
>sticking on the system designed for a bleeding-edge tech vessel that splits into 3 separate warp-capable ships into an 80 year old incredibly conventional design
>worth it
>not simply an expensive disaster of an engineering nightmare in the making

And those modern phaser upgrades weren't even phaser arrays and were still the paired ball turret emitter mounts so couldn't be as good as a true modern phaser simply by design limitation.
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>>66669643
Just one core and pair of nacelles, no need for all the multi-vector weirdness
the new nacelles are the same size but more efficient and/or powerful
question is whether they are more power-hungry, necessitating a new core
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>>66667318
>Tomalok
I'm curious what happened to him in the Dominion War and Shinzon's Coup.
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>>66670072
Probably nothing. Being outside the Tal Shiar would've meant being spared from the Changeling ruse, the Romulans didn't enter the war proper until very late and spent a decent chunk doing nothing since they were vulnerable to the Breen weapon, so if he survived the war he wouldn't be at risk of anything unless he was actually in the Romulan Senate chambers when the bullshitium device was activated, which he wasn't shown to be. After that Shinzon mostly spent a few days brooding with generic rage on the throne before saying fuck it and taking the Scimitar to Earth.

The post-Shizon power struggle on the other hand, that's likely a much different story.
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>>66670072
>>66670303

I feel like Tomalok would be playing the situation for personal advancement, but he's smart enough to know when to back down. However he'd be rather conservative regarding the more open and friendly stance towards the federation, and given any societal upheaval, would be on the side of remaining the Empire.

He's like if Dukat was a patriot rather than purely self-serving. I'd say he wants to be advancing and gaining power within the Empire because he thinks it is a great thing, and his ambition demands that he be a significant part of that great thing to make sure it stays great in the way he sees it.

But there's no point at which he is not adversarial to the federation and star fleet at his core, even if he's playing nice for a moment because the situation demands it.
Probably spent the Dominion war directing a fleet as given his station, but also continually scheming and gathering information for how to take advantage of the situation and gain an edge he could use against star fleet later and gain personal glory along the way.
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>>66650106
>>66650547
>Voyager coming home with a ragtag fleet of Federation vessels, some piloted by the descendants of their original crews, and other stragglers that wanna see the Alpha quadrant for reasons
Would be neat. One thing I'm gonna miss with the new Trek shows is seeing anything with the ToS aesthetic appear on screen again: DISCO pretty much confirms if it did it'd be "modernized".

I know it seems like a nitpick, but I frickin' loved the ToS look, and retconning it away to me, is akin to making a WWII movie where everyone is using "modernized" re-imaginings of their equipment that look like a hybrid of what they historically used and their gear from the 50s because it was more palatable to the general audience.

Or you made a movie including the space shuttle, but the space shuttle looks like this because it's "cooler" and more "modern".
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Asked /tv/ first and theyre answer was "dunno lol" and was linked here so ill ask my question again exactly.
Watchin star trek for the first time ever and I have a quick question. How to I come to own anything in that universe? Like say I want a nice piece of land or something a replicator cant make like a historical artifact how do I obtain it? Also if I wanted a space ship of my own do I just walk to the nearest industrial replicator and order one?
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>>66673001
We answered you in the /tv/ thread, but I'll post it again.

If you are part of the Federation (on one of the good planets) it seems you will be provided a basic standard of living. Food, shelter, and services will be provided.

But if you want something more like a big ship (not a shuttle), those probably require you to get a job like joining the Starfleet (like non-military role like a transport captain, maintenance, etc) or some private organization where you sign a contract. Starfleet seems to deal in trade of goods (not money), so if you had resources (like something valuable like Dilithium), you could probably trade goods for a private, or decommissioned ship. If you don't like the way Starfleet works, you could venture out and make deals with other species. Like take a loan own from the Ferengi to buy a second-hand or third-hand ship and make payments. or work your way up on a ship and eventually become captain. You could also Salvage a ship and fix it up. You could also become a mercenary. It really comes down to resources that you are able to acquire and protect. Not every species uses old fashioned money (the Ferengi do). But trade in resources and rare technology is universal.

The big huge modern military vessels like the Enterprise, Romulan Warbird, etc are exclusively owned by their respective Galactic governments. Though you MIGHT be able to find an old outdated warship as salvage somewhere.
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>>66673248
ST isn't consistent with regards to if the Federation uses money. Because of it being a multi-solar system civilization, most Federation planets have eliminated basic hunger and homelessness. Basic medical care is provided if you are a citizen. Providing those basic services literally isn't a drain of their economy. It's an afterthought at best. They have bigger fish to worry about (like protecting their space territory)

Occasionally sometimes you hear about Federation credits, or some alien currency being thrown about depending on the show. But what seems to trump everything though is resources. The Federation, Klingons, and other species fight over planets and space sectors depending on resources.

My Best guess is this: if there are Federation credits ....they only take you so far on a Federation planet. But are useless outside of the Federation. Your job pays you in credits. You might be able to use them to get non-replicatible specialty food, drink, entertainment, or maybe a specific area of land or an apartment/house if you save up your credits depending on your job.

But to purchase the big ticket items (like a big ship), you need something more. Credits are not a enough. Like resources (rare minerals, technology, etc) or an organization/rich family backing you. Or maybe an absolute shitton of credits (if the seller accepts it) and you want to purchase it by yourself.
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>>66673248
>>66673433
I've started imagining that the Federation works like a lifestyle system where a person's rations are based off of their standing and prestige. Sisko is able to acquire a decent sized tract of land on Bajor due to his high lifestyle afforded to to him based off of his posting as a station commander, while O'Brien likely has a low lifestyle due to his position as an NCO. This likely explains O'Brien's burgeoning friendship with Dr. Bashir, whose medium lifestyle allows him more luxuries than O'Brien could get and thus gives O'Brien a vector for tasting a better life that he is not afforded.
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Anyone have a link to the trove for ST:Adventures? Pdf share thread sent me this way. Ty
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>>66674326
STA gets aggressively taken down every time it is posted. Read the fucking OP.

>>66609914
>Modiphius takes down links for the ST:A core book and expansions. Look in the archives or ask someone to send it to you via discord. Or... you know... buy the rulebook(s)
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>>66663619
>Nemesis could have been improved a bit by...using more of the cut material that contained important character moments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZAwRHjFAB4
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>>66674392
Okay that's on me. I missed that. Thank you for pointing it out. Can someone send it to me on discord? @reaper373 or #7922
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>>66672782
Apples and Oranges.
You're talking about re-imagining something from the past versus something from the future made in the past.
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>>66674512
Every other variation of the Constitution is explained away as an upgrade to the original design, even the one that appears in 2009 was the result of Starfleet making a new cruiser design for its mission following the influx of new technology that came available from studying the Kelvin incident, and the original Constitution in that timeline made it to the modeling stage before that specific model was scrapped and replaced with the AU Connie design in a way not unlike how there was the FX-22 and FX-23, and the F-22 ended up becoming the Raptor.

To change things like the Connie's physical dimensions and exterior appearance breaks with the established way the material had been handled up to that point, which was with the same care that people tended to give towards real equipment in depiction.

For all the things the Star Wars sequels got wrong, they never went so far as to retcon the physical appearance of a piece of equipment to make it "modern".
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>>66674583
I beg to disagree.
The new Stormtrooper designs and especially the ST blasters as a case in point.
The Stormtroopers are sleeker like an i-device.
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>>66674771
Those aren't out-of-universe redesigns, those are upgrades to existing in-universe equipment (or downgrades in the case of the stormtrooper armor, but I digress). The actual OT equipment that appears wasn't changed. The Imperial Class and Millennium Falcon still look the same, as do the OT Stormtroopers when they appear in Rogue One.
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>>66674808
I think one of the reasons I feel so positively about Rogue One is because everything just looked so right. I was worried we would be getting shit like the bad looking x-wings from Force Awakens but instead they actually went and made stuff look reasonably authentic. It's really sad that modern Trek reboots haven't done the same.
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>>66674851
One of the few areas that the newer Star Wars content has excelled has been in creating new designs that are consistent with the existing universe. Nothing really feels like it doesn't belong. At least visually.
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>>66650547
Can't wait to get control of this big boi and the Proxima-class in AotF.
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>>66662884

I thought John Carter's budget was high because they did lots of onlocation shooting. Also don't forget that awesomely bad Lone Ranger reboot that also flopped and died
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>>66676037
Yup very normal for militaries to never update their designs
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>>66677048
You're conflating "looks like it belongs in the universe" with "looks the same". There's an amount of overlap but the important thing is that it all looks like it's part of an evolution.
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>>66677000
You don't get to a (declared) production budget of $250 million through location shoots.
Also I did forget Lone Ranger. Because everyone forgot Lone Ranger. I'm forgetting it again even as I type this, it's that forgettable.

>>66676037
>>66674851
A big part of why Star Wars works is that visual appeal and at least parts of the bajillion people making new star wars content still get that.
The toys make the universe what it is, and it's why it worked so well in videogames when they were still making more than EA's utterly mediocre output. Like the old starfighter games like the X-Wing series or Rogue Squadron; if it had been anything else they'd have been lesser for it, but simply because it's farting about in all those classic designs that are visually and audibly distinct, it elevates it. They're all characters in an of themselves. Like someone could make one of those the-objects-are-schoolgirls anime/mangos about star wars fighters and ships and the characterisations would be immediate and obvious.

Of course they're also in need of a solid story and likeable characters to use said toys in the first place to get them beloved.
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>>66677491
>Like someone could make one of those the-objects-are-schoolgirls anime/mangos about star wars fighters and ships and the characterisations would be immediate and obvious.
WTF I want this now. Someone get Lucas and KyoAni on the line together.
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>>66677491
>ut simply because it's farting about in all those classic designs that are visually and audibly distinct, it elevates it. They're all characters in an of themselves. Like someone could make one of those the-objects-are-schoolgirls anime/mangos about star wars fighters and ships and the characterisations would be immediate and obvious.
And that's something that completely flew over the head of someone in Discovery when they decided to replace the Enterprise: they were replacing a character with something that looks pretty close, would get, but just isn't the same thing. You can say it as much as you want, but that's not her on screen, and they're pretending it is, and just like many other things in Discovery it doesn't work because not only is it out of scale, but it doesn't have her distinctive profile, or her signature smoothness that really made the ToS connie unique from every other ship in Starfleet. Pike and Spock do more convincing performances of whom they're meant to represent than this thing.

And it's only going to look more jarring in the Picard show when we start seeing Mirandas that still have the original Connie saucer integrated into them appear (hopefully, given that it appears they're giving more attention to detail this time about) but now they aren't because apparently the Connie is now this Ambassador-sized thing that would be able to swat a period Miranda like a fly.
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>>66678048
I don’t feel great about the prospects for The Quest for More Money ft. John Luke Picard: The TV Show. There’s a big difference between paying attention to detail because the staff cares, and being told to go back and pay attention by a merchandising partner worried about action figure sales.
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>>66680462
>paying attention to detail because the staff cares

Or at the very least, the staff knows the audience cares. And they should have already known given the apparently miserable response to STD merchandise or even the Abrams film merchandise, to the point that CBS vigorously defended to keep their income stream from the old series merch and not have it over-written entirely by new stuff when the new films came along as Abrams apparently wanted.
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>>66677000
Both of those also had forced reshoots demanded by "higher ups" (at least Carter did) So did Rogue One. - I'm willing to put money one the fact that if both Carter and Rogue one had been left alone they also would have been better and more well-received films.
My headcannon says Rogue one would have been more like Force 10 from Navverone or Oceans' 11.
>>
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>>66674149
>Sisko is able to acquire a decent sized tract of land on Bajor due to his high lifestyle afforded to to him based off of his posting as a station commander
I thought him being the Bajorian Moses/Jesus figure had to do something with it.
>>
>>66674149
That’s just dumb. We see that O’Brien lives in luxury aboard the Enterprise and there’s noting to suggest he was limited on DS9. That’s the sort of thing that would have gotten an episode devoted to it if it were the case.
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>>66682157
Everyone lives in "luxury" on the Enterprise, but that doesn't mean that everyone lives equally.
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>>66682195
...the Federation is explicitly a utopia, everyone does in fact do so. We never see evidence of inequality between Federation citizens. Everyone is comfortable and happy. Your headcanon is interesting but remains precisely that: headcanon.
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>>66635939
They made a comeback in pic related
>>66670072
The STO timeline has him in a sort of "Napoleon in Elba" situation; Destiny has him awaiting trial after the whole blowing DS9 up kerfuffle
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>>66682068
Keeping in mind that Jake and Nog got some large tracts of Bajoran land by random trading
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>>66682195
No that’s quite literally the case. O’Brien lives in as much comfort as any of his crew mates, from his superiors to his subordinates, because it’s a post-scarcity society so arbitrarily locking certain amenities behind a wall of status is not only unnecessary, but actively counterintuitive.
>>
Franklin Expedition anon here. First session done, will likely storytime tomorrow. What’s the done thing when it comes to that? Should I focus on the narrative or just explain what happened at the table?
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>>66684175
>Should I focus on the narrative
I usually do that when I have an opportunity to do story time for my campaign (though that's probably dead sadly due to scheduling issues).
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>>66684187
Fair enough. That was my first instinct but just wanted to be sure. Hope things work out with your campaign. Is it one that's been posted in these threads?
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>>66682336
You're thinking of the Jarada
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>>66684303
Yes, though only a few times and not recently. It was the USS Fredrickson, if you remember it. It didn't get much response, storytimes never do for some reason. We had a session recently, I just sort of forgot to storytime.
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>>66684354
Ah, a fellow connoisseur of the Excelsior. I can respect that. Yeah I was thinking that I might not get much response, but I figured I may as well write it up.
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>>66684426
The Excelsior is a great hero ship. It's big enough to have power to do stuff and crew members with lots of specialties and it's old enough that it isn't going to overpower anything instantly. It also looks fantastic, especially the Ent-B variant.
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So what's the nu-trek explanation for actually having glass viewscreens?
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>>66685080
not bad w/TMP nacelles either
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>>66687084
TNG refit?
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Why does STO get such a bad rap? Some of these designs are pretty alright.
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>>66687954
Keyword "some." Definitely not "most" in terms of their original designs.
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>>66687972
Better than nothing, which is what we're basically left with as far as the franchise is concerned.
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>>66687954
Mostly leftover hate from the Atari days, when all the ships were just mods of canon ships, many of which were actually quite ugly, and the rest uninspired. There are also people that will hate on everything that's not a canon design, and others that rag on everything they're not used to.
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>>66686890
Probably some mix of the following:
>uhhh how are you supposed to see out the front of this thing
>what if somebody just shoots out the viewscreen sensors? a window would be safer
>what do you mean that wasn’t a window

But I have a strong feeling the real reason is that JJ wanted his shot of the windshield cracking in the post-climax-blackhole-re-climax of ‘09.
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>>66684426
>>66685080
>>66687084
>>66687096
I just don't know why it's stardrive section has to be so fat or the deflector looking like a derpy mouthbreather overbite. This is why the Constitution and its refit look better. Or the Intrepid.
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>>66682226
Not him, but obviously the Federation citizens on the outskirts of her territory aren't given as much consideration as those on Earth, considering the Federation was willing to sell them out to the Cardies without losing sleep.

Evidently, this may be due to them not sharing the same values as their Utopian counterparts, which is why they'd do something like the Marquis to begin with, but this alongside Federation reactions to Ferengi show a subtle prejudice that humanity has picked up in the 24th century that wasn't around, or at least as prominent during Kirk's time: the tendency to ostracize humans or near-human societies that aren't acting to Earth's ISO enlightened standards.

This is actually touched on in an earlier draft of Star Trek: Generations, where it's inferred that the Federation is allergic to vocal opposition to its policies, leading to an echo-chamber effect which inadvertently compromises her principals.
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>>66688899
Let's be honest, there was always the undercurrent of the Federation being dominated by humans, whether by design or by a natural presumption/reality that other races are just weaker or less competent.

There's really no other reason you can explain most of Starfleet being crewed by humans with nearly all the ships named after Earth-based shit. If you say it's because the Federation is biased towards humans, that shows an unequal relationship between planets, if you say it's because other races simply have no inclination towards exploration and defense (which seems to run contrary to the qualification that they have to be warp-capable as one of the prerequisites to being admitted into the Federation), then you're admitting a de facto state of inequality between planets and species.

Basically however you want to spin it, the Federation and Starfleet are Earth/human-dominated organizations (Section 31 is entirely human) with the other 180 member planets and species being there to live under their protection and rules with no real say over matters outside civilian governance.
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>>66689084
What if the underlying cause isn’t latent racism, but just a setting being written by humans for humans from a human perspective with all the characters being portrayed by humans?
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>>66689084
>>66689437
It's not racism against species or cultures, it's political ostracism. Simply put, if you're a capitalist, or a nationalist, or materialist in the 24th century, you're going to be ostracized unless you move out of utopia-land into the less safe outskirts with people who have a similar point of view as yourself. And not because the people of the Federation hate you; no, on the contrary, they want to patronizingly "fix" you of these outdated, obsolete thoughts, as outdated as Third World War they were "supposed" to die in.

Heaven isn't heaven, for a sinner.
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>>66689437
That's basically just latent jingoism and lack of imagination.
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>>66689084
>Section 31 is entirely human
Vulcans would be perfect for Section 31
Strong, smart, rational, psychic, impassioned...
convince them that something is for the greater good, and they'll do it gladly

Honestly, the only thing that gives humans an edge over the greenbloods is an innate drive to DO stuff and being less effective when they go off the rails
That's what made Augments such a menace: basically Vulcan in all abilities with the human ego as motivation
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>>66689542
>they want to patronizingly "fix" you of these outdated, obsolete thoughts,
That sounds almost borg-like.
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>>66689084
>>66690593
>Section 31
Can we stop beating the dead horse yet?
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>>66690593
>Honestly, the only thing that gives humans an edge over the greenbloods is an innate drive to DO stuff

That's a typical human trope though, it's easy to say we're just more motivated than everyone else instead of giving due attention to the fact that Vulcans actually have a drive to "do stuff" - it's what made them check out earth in the first place.
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>>66687954
They don’t really get that much hate. STO has good designs. It also has shit designs. Better to separate them along those lines.
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>>66695051
A bringer of great shame to many an onlooking Klingon.
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Who's the best Trek character you ever roleplayed as?
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>>66697403
I have yet to be a player in a Trek game, so N/A.
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>>66697403
Fripak my Ferengi CPO is pretty fun to play. Having the Rules of Acquisition there to pull from for values and random RP inserts is great. He's also wildly different from my Season One Vulcan character Pinek. So the change of pace is nice.
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>>66697403
In the LUG TNG game I ran, I had Q as an NPC. That was pretty fun.
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>>66679827
Reminds of the spare Starfleet bridge they used a few times in DS9
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>>66702575
The Romulans are about to get real peaceful up on those motherfuckers. Poor bastards, never had a chance.
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>>66618100
They couldn't replicate Talaxian lungs because they were particularly complex. Other organs have been referenced as being replicated before, even in the same episode.

Transplant was a viable option, so the better question is why they didn't replicate some compatible lungs from another species and transplant those.

>>66618139
That's immaterial. If you can replicate eg a sample of blood down to the cellular level, there's no difference between that and blood from an organism. The state in which you replicate the template matters, but otherwise there's nothing necessarily "alive" or "dead" about them.

I'm tempted to say the Klingon food thing is a goof (albeit one done to prove how 'alien' Klingons are) but in the interests of lore-satisfying answers, I'm just going to assume Federation replicators won't replicate living organisms without authorization because that's how you get parasites in your prune juice and people cloning their dead cat multiple times until the fur expresses the same patterns as the original.
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>>66654716
>>66654645
Generations has that really nice line: "What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived."

...and then DS9 goes and spends its remaining five seasons playing games of the end justifies the means with the increasingly dirty 'hero' crew in between pointless space battles, only to settle for an everything's fine because the station's fine ending in an episode literally titled "What You Leave Behind".

Man, fuck DS9.
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>>66676389
>>66650547

Honestly, ill always perfer, visually at least, the twin engineering hulls of the proxima to the chonk hull that is atlas. I always like the slimmer necks of the tos connie and the graceful curves of the galaxy. If it must have a thick neck or chonk engie hull, do it like the intrepid and blend it into the saucer, damnit. Super thick neck might be why i like the excelsior less then the connie or intrepid, asthetically anyways....
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Can someone explain how ablative generators work? I thought the idea of ablative armor is that it dissipates, which in turn disperses impact force/heat energy.

How is it "regenerated"? What is it generated from?
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>>66707763
Nanomachines, son!
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>>66707763
I think the panels are fast replicated. Think of it like the self-replicating minefield from DS9. Each panel ablates until it falls away and is replaced near instantly by a new panel.
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>>66702575
How do 6000 troops hold a planet?
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>>66708047
Likely by not doing so. 6’000 troops couldn’t occupy a planet but they could take a major city or installation. Say, the Vulcan Science Academy. They would entrench, using static weaponry emplacements and transport inhibitors to stop any sort of massed attack from Vulcan or Starfleet forces. Then they start demanding that Romulan forces be permitted to access Vulcan or they start executing hostages. And suddenly it’s not 6’000 Romulan shock troops, it’s 600’000 on the ground and a fleet of D’Deridexes in orbit.
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>>66707984
Where does the matter draw from? Raw energy?
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>>66708363
Basically.

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/Camelot/Hull/Ablative.html

>Ablative armor generator technology is a advanced combination of holocloak technology, energy projection, computer pattern formation and power generation. The result is the formation of a virtual layer of quasisolid ablative armor formed at a predetermined distance from the ship, which has the properties of both high-density type 3 ablative armor and regenerative shielding and is capable of offering several magnitudes of protection above normal shielding, at the cost of a large power drain.

>The technology involves the construction of large omnidirectional holoemitters at key points along the hull; when activated, the beams form a conformal holofield alot like a holocloak`s. At this point energy is pumped into a replicator, capable of creating any matter directly from input energy. A dedicated computer core constructs a pattern of specialized type 3 ablative armor designed to best resist incoming energy; it updates this pattern every 5 seconds. The matter\energy beam is then conducted through the OHD`s, forming a quasisolid layer of energy armor, which is kept close to the hull of the ship via bonding to the SIF field, thereby enhancing both the ship`s structural integrity and the e-armor`s strength.

>There is one significant drawback to this technology; the strength of the e-armor is directly proportional to the energy put into it. So ships with smaller power reserves cannot put up a shield at all. Ships with powerful fusion engines or multiple warp cores would be best for this. On a side note, the size of the ship does factor into the equation for the generator; the power neccesary to cover a tiny shuttlecraft is many times less than that of a starship; even so, all non-essential systems on a fighter or shuttle would have to be shut down for the generator to be activated(this does not include weapons, engines or internal life support).
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Reminder that the canonical reason for why the Kelvin was able to hold out against the Narada for so long was because Captain Robau was basically obsessed with decking out his ship with far more guns than it had originally been designed to pack since he was always operating so close to Klingon space.

He was basically a paranoid asshole who was always worried about being ambushed so he turned a survey vessel into a massive turret platform with an engine attached.
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>>66708578
I don't think a few dozen more 23rd century phaser banks on a destroyer would have made much of a difference against 25th century shielding.
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>>66667318
>Into Darkness was the most successful Trek movie ever made.

Nobody knows how good or bad a movie is until they see it. How well a film in a series does has absolutely nothing to do with how good that film itself is, and everything to do with how good the one before it was. Beyond didn't do as well at the box office precisely BECAUSE Into Darkness was awful and killed momentum for the franchise.
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>>66708765
No but it provided enough point defense to keep from being obliterated within the first 2 minutes of exchanging fire even with the other ship deploying scatter torpedoes.
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>>66708965
Nah, Beyond didn't do well because it was poorly advertised as Fast & Furious in space and even its actual premise is fairly mundane if you really stop and think about it. It was a nice romp but it was just so limited given what movies are supposed to be. I guarantee you if it had advertised as a Klingon War plot, it would've made at least half a billion easily.
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>>66709118
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>>66710503
Didn't mean to link that. Oh well.
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>>66710503
That's a very square asteroid.
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>>66710703
The sins engine is weird like that.
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>look up USS Franklin on eBay
>still one of the most expensive Eaglemoss models available

Why is it still selling for so fucking high...
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>>66708578
So in theory we could have Prime Universe Robau going ham on some Klingon raiders looking for an easy mark. I'm okay with this.
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>>66711347
I like to think he went his entire career without ever having to fire a shot, eventually being reprimanded by the admiralty for wasting Starfleet resources on wall-to-wall armaments for that rainy day that never came, that ultimate firefight where he could just let loose.

The other captains would stage an intervention, he would gradually be forced to dismantle the extra torpedo and phaser launchers, and finally admit what he was doing was against everything the Federation and Starfleet stood for, having a long laugh while crying on the other officers' shoulders, realizing how batshit he'd been for thinking there could ever be such a thing as a situation where peaceful negotiation wasn't an option.

He'd be spending his final days as captain taking his ship and crew on one last patrol along the Klingon border, where he'd suddenly get ambushed by about a half dozen D7 cruisers and annihilated within the first 20 seconds.

Learning too late that the Federation-Klingon War just started.
>>
So, does anyone know what all of that slap-fighting between ELH and 10th Fleet that (ELH claims) lead to several campaigns imploding and GMs swearing off the hobby was all about?
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>>66713435
Heard nothing about this. What's the story?
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>>66713435
What even is this? Is this some kind of STO faggotry? You gotta explain this further, anon.
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>>66713435
>ELH

Emergency Licking Hologram?

please say yes
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>>66667318
>Into Darkness was the most successful Trek movie ever made.

Not really.

Compared to say The Motion Picture it made a lower absolute gross (inflation adjusted, RPI only - ticket prices are relatively similar to today despite TPI running at a different rate to RPI) on a budget 150% the size; even the domestic take, much more important in 1979 than in 2019, was significantly higher for TMP.

The Voyage Home was similarly well endowed when inflation is taken into account - maybe even a little better since the production budget was lower than TMP's had been, as many of the sets, costumes and props were simply re-used from the previous 3 movies. Generations was a similar beneficiary of low production budgets arising from re-use of 7 years of asset, themselves based on assets used for another show and a movie series.

You could argue that Generations for example has a lower overall gross, but it also cost significantly less - about a third of Into Darkness - because the costs of production had in large part already been paid off by previous outings, and thus dollarydoos invested in it would have a higher rate of return than in other projects; it's also true that pre-2000 a lot of movie grosses available online are simple estimates based on one or two archive press reports from the time of release. This was long before studios felt the need to report to the nearest dollardoo how much each project made, so these are often not even in-house estimates.

In a totally unrelated example of this, nobody actually knows how much Superman II made worldwide, because it was never reported, but it clearly made a lot of money because the domestic take was equivalent to about $300m today. That there are even estimates for Star Trek: The Motion Picture is actually quite interesting; presumably something to do with Roddenberry trying to make sure the studio and investors knew it was a saleable franchise.
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>>66665421
>Captain, this woman has severe Theta radiation poisoning
>she looks like my mother
>what
>my mother [violent orb experience involving baseball]
>Sisko to Defiant, what's your status
>well basically there's about four rooms on this shitheap and three of them are filled with Borg so you know
>Sisko to Defiant computer, initiate self destruct, authorization Sisko 0-0-0-0-0-commit.
>Self destruct confirm*
>well that's the Borg dealt with, you assholes go melt into the general populace, JAKE!
>yo
>Get your ass down here and help me fix this rocket ship, we're going to be Zephram Cochrane and son
>yep
>Bashir to Sisko, we've located Cochrane, he's dead drunk in the bar
>dead you say
>dead drunk captain
>dead you say [draws phaser and stalks out of shot]
>[Sisko VO] if I had a doubt about what I was doing in that moment I didn't know it, but as I vaporized Zephram Cochrane I knew I was right to do it
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>>66708392
>Ships with powerful fusion engines or multiple warp cores would be best for this
[Prometheus Intensifies]
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>>66714550
Emergency Life Hologram but he goes by EGMH which is Emergency Game Master Hologram

>>66713435
As far as I know the 10th fleet is a shared universe STA game where the many different campaigns interact. ELH had just started one when a couple of the 10th fleet players basically ended up being complete assholes to him and the other players in the games. and when he went to the 10th fleet about it they didn't do anything about it I know for sure 2 campaigns were ended because of it and a GM has taken a hiatus due to it.

>>66713895
ELH runs various STA and now WK40K and Lancer games. He's the GM of the Ophion/Amalthea, Arcadia,Avenger, Akagi STA games that get story timed here every now and again
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>>66713435
What is it you want to know exactly?
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>>66716534
Different anon here, im completely out of this situation.
What's actually going on here?
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>>66714870
Well, Sisko was a ship designer before he took command, who better?
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>>66716581
TLDR: 10th Fleet is a bunch of That Guys

Slightly longer version:
10th Fleet was founded by a salty That Guy who got denied from a game after "he wasted time filling out an application." His goal was to make a shared canon series of games and accept anyone and everyone. Sounds good on paper, right?

In reality, what happened was pretty much everyone who couldn't get a STA game for very good reasons (see: assholes, flakes, murderhobos, etc) flocked to the 10th. Their GMs (including the Founder) were absolutely horrible, more concerned with advancing their "genius" metaplot than actually roleplaying or sticking to Trek themes. There were a few good apples in the bunch but not enough to matter.

Anyways, in kicking out several That Guys from my community server, two of them had major clout in the 10th Fleet. One of them was a gaslighting asshole, and the other was shitting on an entirely separate STA GM by leaving his game early to play one in the 10th. In kicking them, the douchebags tanked the separate STA game and harassed the shit out of that GM. Said GM has sworn off STA completely because of it. I also had to cancel three STA campaigns of my own because of bad eggs who were part of the 10th. I got fed up with the 10th's bullshit and banned them from the subreddit.

That's pretty much it.
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>>66716800
>>66716800
>but he vaporized that guy
>yeah but who else would think to put ablative hull armor on a starship
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>>66717378
>tfw Sisko's Phoenix came armed with plasma turrets
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Is there a Stellar Cartography: The Starfleet Reference Library pdf floating around?
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>>66716800
>Sisko was a ship designer before he took command

This shit honestly annoys the hell out of me. For some reason Trek feels like captains also have to have been involved with the actual construction of ships to be effective. Sisko being a ship designer, Archer being a Warp 2 test pilot, etc. Kirk and Picard never needed any of that bullshit, they went to Starfleet Academy to learn how to command.
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>>66718126
But they don't? Sisko's literally the only captain who was involved with actual design, and that was presented as "he happened to be an engineer before moving to command" like how Spock and Janeway were science officers before switching to command. Archer being a pilot is nothing because he's just a pilot, it was his dad that was the engineer, and even in-universe it was stated that Archer getting command was for the feel-good story part, which the Vulcans objected to and which probably is what led to Archer being out of his depth early on. It's not uncommon for people to be in specialist divisions as junior officers before jumping to command later on. Worf did the same thing since security is considered part of operations. Geordi went from command to engineering and back to command. Even Beverly got to command her own ship in the future, albeit a hospital ship.
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>>66718126
Kirk taught a Warp Dynamics class
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>>66717912
Not really but the individual pages are pretty easy to come across if you google them.
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>>66718126
Archer makes a certain amount of sense given that the engine was supposed to take them away from any kind of friendly base of repair. He needed to be intimately familiar with the engine in a way later captains don't.

Kirk ended up as an Academy instructor immediately after the 5-year mission and was still teaching classes 20-something years later.

This was a return to his pre-command days as a junior lt, when he taught a class at the Academy and was "a stack of books with legs".

Following that original teaching post he served as a phaser gunnery crewman (which might mean on the bridge in command gold, or might mean in a room in operations red per Humans Are Racists But Vulcans Are Logical, The Episode.)

Janeway was science branch and despite its early mission to capture Chakotay, Voyager was a science-oriented vessel with an advanced sensor suite and plenty of lab space. When she took command the Admiral who handed the ship over even made a point of quizzing her as a friendly reminder that she was still a scientist.

Picard was an archaeologist and a fairly lackluster leader until he was stabbed by a Nausicaan. It's literally canon that he'd have ended up in the science branch without that incident, while his early career after it included a sudden promotion after his captain was killed on the Stargazer and he took command - but he was still conn at that point, which makes him either Wesley red or Data yellow, depending on who needed more screen time that week.
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>>66718126
>Kirk and Picard never needed any of that bullshit, they went to Starfleet Academy to learn how to command.
Kirk was a tactical officer and Picard a conn officer.
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>>66716902
>assholes, flakes, murderhobos, douchebags

That makes sense enough, but on reddit your charges are instead that they are "misogynistic, racist, homophobic, (and) ableist". Is it both? And even if so, why have different lists of charges divided between different sites in re-telling your story? Just seems like it adds to the confusion.
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>>66714550
"Please state the nature of your bedroom emergency."
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>>66711297
It's weirdly popular. I don't get it either.
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>>66723664
I agree, he should update it to add the flake and murderhobo parts. No point not being thorough.
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>>66712718
Makes you wonder how far you could upgrade an old "vintage" ship.

A plot for an adventure could be old maverick Scotty and O'Brien level engineers trading for some of the old juncked ships in the Starfleet junk storage in the wake of the Dominion War. They bring them back to life and take up some of the duties of fleet ships and shenanigans start happening to them.
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>reading abput enterprise
>they wanted season 1 to be 16 episodes long and would be based around trying to convince starfleet it was finally time for a space mission
>literally 16 45 minute episodes of "minor malfunction in a test with vulcans going 'oh no, that suuuuucks, maybe in another few centuries'" again and again amd again
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>>66726992
I kind of assume it'd mostly be set on a precursor ship to the NX, like I think Archer was stationed on the Republic before he got his command.
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>>66726992
Depends how much of the Sol System they'd used. Fleshing out Martian civilization, Jupiter Station, and whatever's even further out. Then there's still room for aliens come to visit plots, possibly because they met Boomers first.
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>>66723747
draw me like one of your Qomar girls
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https://screenrant.com/quentin-tarantino-star-trek-r-rated/
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>>66729699
>"Mister worf! Fuck those fucking Romulans up!"
>"Fuck yes sir!"
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>>66729699
>Quent T puts on blackface and chokes out a Female Redshirt as Klingon Warrior #5.
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>>66729699
I mean why not given that it's inevitably going to be another reboot anyway
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>>66729699
>>66731032
>another two hours of brooding caricatures solving all their problems by shooting at each other or doing/saying the Star Trek Thing® - but now with extra blood and curse words
Gosh, I can’t wait.
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>>66731656
you lapped up seven seasons of DS9 didn't you
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>>66731656
I don't know, a while back when it was first suggested he might do a movie, I listened to some interviews with him where he discussed Star Trek and from what he said he at least seemed to grasp what makes a good episode of Star Trek.
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>>66729699
Oh yeah, this is a thing.
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>>66731772
I never really got into DS9 myself. Especially after it started to feel like “oops I guess I forgot to clear that with Starfleet ;)” had become the default ending for half the episodes.
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>>66729699
So we're going to see people turn into salsa, then?
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>>66732695
>"I just phasered Odo in the face."
>"Why the fuck did you do that!?"
>"I dont know you must have hit a subspace eddy!"
>"Hey, this shuttle didnt hit no motherfucking subspace eddy!"
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Anybody got the “wtf did you just say to me?” Klingon pasta?
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>>66734375
What did you just say to me, you worthless to'pah? I'll have you know I was entered into the Order Of Kahless, and I've been involved in numerous honourable duels with great warriors, and I have over 300 confirmed victories. I am trained in stealth warfare and I was crowned Champion Standing at the Imperial Bat'leth Tournament of Forcas III. You are nothing to me but just another piece of Baktag! I will destroy your starship with glorious disruptor fire the likes of which has never been before outside of Grethor, mark my glorious words. You think you can evade my Bird of Prey by insulting me over subspace? Think again, bIHnuch. As we speak I am hailing my glorious brothers in arms across all of known space and your warp signature is being traced right now so you better prepare for glorious combat, ghuy'cha'. The glorious combat that lights my way to Sto'Vo'Kor with your blood. You're dead, QI'yaH. My Bird of Prey can decloak anywhere, anytime and I can end your miserable existence in over 700 honourable ways, and that's just with my teeth. Not only am I an honoured veteran of glorious combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of House Martok and I will use it to its full extent to burn your dishonorable hide from the face of the galaxy, you insolent HuH. If only you could have known the dishonour your little "clever" comment was about to bring down on you, maybe you would have held your tongue. But you couldn't you didn't and now your soul will languish in Grethor, you foolish Qa'Hom. I will rain dishonour all over you and you will drown in it. You're dead, petaQ.
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>>66729699
I can't wait to see how he manages to cram the n-word in there. Holodeck seems the most plausible, but my money's on first contact with an alien species who learned it from our TV transmissions.
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I'm still mad
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>>66737174
I hope somebody saved the saucer separation trailer set to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LydlTSshr3w before the youtube channel got ganked
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>>66609914
Why didn't they just grow clone organs in jars?
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>>66739487
Maybe they didn’t know how. Remember that the Delta Quadrant, especially the region the Vidiians were in, was a low tech shithole.
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>>66740248
They had the know how to get organs from a dozen species working in a single body with no compatibility issues.
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>>66740353
Doesn’t necessarily mean they know to successfully grow organs. In fact I’d say it supports the idea that they can’t, seeing as it’s such a drastic step.
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>>66740353
I think the story was that they needed alien organs because the disease would take time to adapt to them, unlike clones of their own organs which it would eat through overnight.
Makes as much sense as anything in Voyager.
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>>66737174
At least the follow up is a thing and has a favourable reaction from the creators.

>>66740601
Cloned alien organs is clearly the solution there but then, no drama, no story, no Nelix suffering for having a lung stolen. And I can't abide there being a missed opportunity for Nelix to suffer.
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>>66743149
They had sophisticated transporters but not apparently sophisticated replicators, which looks weird to us from a Federation perspective but then again, the Federation had transporters capable of disintegrating, transmitting over thousands of kilometers, and reintegrating complex living organisms in the 2150s, but didn't apparently develop replicators - and then quite crude ones if TNG is to be believed - until the advent of the holodeck 200 years later.

Cloning long-form - with tanks and nutrients and so on - presumably has an unacceptably high risk of contamination given the prevalence of phage among Vidiians.

>>66740353
We can put a pig heart into you and you'll live with it just fine for easily a decade if you follow instructions. Presumably we could graft something compatible with a pig heart directly onto it - monkey glands say - and you could live with those too.

But we can't graft all those dog nuts that go spare every year onto you because dog nuts are designed to work at significantly lower temperatures. Can't give you a bear's ears or a walrus dick or a tiger's limb for various reasons, but if we could - and assuming we could overcome the rejection rate - you probably wouldn't live as long.

With Vidiians I think it probably doesn't matter about compatibility and rejection (they do I think discuss rejected organs at some point) because the organs themselves will become vulnerable to infection when brought into line with Vidiian physiology, so they're never going to last long.

Since most Vidiians seem to operate in small raiding parties without a central government (sodality is just another word for fraternity) it's likely that advancements are made on the basis of repeated trial and error rather than planned success. I would also expect a high degree of snake oil and poor methodology in their scientific community as a whole - hope and the appearance of hope are much easier than actually fixing people.
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>>66737174
Me too. Imagine designing a starship that size and giving it to captains who never bother to launch their vast fleet of armed shuttles to work as interceptors in combat situations because they just want to micromanage everything from the bridge, even when that means fatally long delays in reaction.

And don't get me started on their concept of automation.
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>>66744303
Yeah, why didn’t Riker launch his fleet of 700 shuttles and drown these dumb fucks in a kamikaze swarm the moment they kidnapped his captain? They didn’t even bother to speak English properly, so clearly they were asking for it.

Discovery is so much more realistic than this cringey 90s garbage.
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>>66744482
Haha yeah! This is the power of Math! Fuck! Yum Yum!
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>>66744660
Sup Mike.
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>>66744895
Time Crystal!
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>>66744895
I don't understand why Michael Burnham was the first and only black person in Starfleet ever
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>>66747155
>Let Michael Burnham on a ship
>Immediately commits mutiny and starts a war killing billions
>Starfleet learns from their mistake and forbids entry to anyone but straight white (or blue) cis males
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>>66743149
>At least the follow up is a thing and has a favourable reaction from the creators.
?
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>>66749722
https://youtu.be/ALHs9lDdsc0
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>>66750831
Hah! That's awesome. Fair dues to them. Hadn't heard anything about this until now.
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I ran my first Trek courtroom episode today. It's hard to play both the Prosecutor and the witnesses when you can't do voices very well. Otherwise it felt alright. The players are just beginning to scratch the surface of a Klingon plot. I can go more into it if people care.
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>>66744482
>>66744660
yeah?

maybe the power of math can explain why a starship with a main shuttlebay easily capable of holding a hundred minor craft never actually uses that shuttlebay except to vent the atmosphere, killing everybody inside because there's no way in hell they could get clear in time, just to get out of the way of Kelsey Grammer

oh wait the answer is because when they 'designed' that ship, they just made it fuckhuge without any real consideration of how plausible that would be or how to display it on screen

so you get nothing

whereas even the Enterprise of Kirk's time has a fuckhuge shuttlebay after the 2270 refit, which is on screen in TMP, and carries at least a dozen shuttles

>>66747155
i don't understand why you're so bitter about a black woman being a main character in a tv show

if you don't like it, don't watch it, it's not like you're losing out

you literally have no stake in any of this



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