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Undiscovered Country Edition

Previous Edition: >>66383934

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures
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>https://continuingmissionsta.com/

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>http://pastebin.com/ndCz650p

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>http://pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
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>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

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>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

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>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/


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Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

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>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

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Thread Topic: Who would have had the upper hand in a war if Chang's plot succeeded?
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>>66517077
>Thread Topic: Who would have had the upper hand in a war if Chang's plot succeeded?
The real answer is the Romulans. They're literally the only people who have anything to gain from continued war. The Klingons are on the verge of collapse, and continued war would put the Federation in the position of either invading and occupying them, annihilating them, or at best just sitting on their side of the border and waiting for the Klingons to starve themselves to death. Any of these are massively wasteful either in terms of resources or time.
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>>66517190
The Romulans would probably swoop in towards the end of the war to nab territory too, seeing as they don't do occupations so much as massacres.
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>>66517190
STIII would have been so much better with the Romulans as adversaries instead of Klingons. Hell, it even sets up STVI better if the BoP is a Romulan false flagging an attack on the Klingon chancellor to make it look like the Enterprise did it.
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>>66518924
>Romulans get wind of superweapon-applicable tech and send in their best operative
>killing the Grissom goes from an accident to Romulan SOP
>sets up more political intrigue for later
Ah, what could have been
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I bring a gift of a stupid joke featuring my two favorite ships
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Vulcans who deal with humans are all teetering on the edge of madness aren't they?
I mean they spent centuries trying to lock down their emotions and presenting an "emotionless " front to the species they encounter but as soon as they make first contact with humanity...bananas.
The Vulcans we see don't seem to put up that front with humans - or at least that wall has cracks.
In Enterprise we see them "logically" holding back humanity in warp design. Actively hindering it in some cases and while they say they are doing this to protect humanity what they might be doing is trying to protect the rest of the galaxy and themselves.
Somehow we bring anger, competitiveness (like baseball), cross-species desire.(it may seem inhibited and cold but why else would they mate with humans? It's not a science project.) and even sympathy.
Maybe it's pheromones. They have commented on the "stank" of humans.
Maybe it's a weird jealousy where we maintain our emotions and (often driven by them) create and re-interpret their view of the universe.
The primary races of the Federation (a generalization) (with the exclusion of Vulcans) tend to take their emotions to extreme. Klingon, Andorians, the lot.quick to anger and lash out. Humans tend to have more of a balance.
I think proximity calls to the Vulcans who see this mixture of emotion and (sometimes) rationality and and shows a path they could have taken instead of locking it completely away.
Any thoughts?
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>>66522564
also, watching an episode of Enterprise where T'Pol says "Humans and Vulcans have never been able to reproduce...
Which means they (several) have been trying.
So from First Contact established relations the races have been fucking. - wtf?
Where is your Logic now?
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>>66522564
It's not just Vulcans. The Romulans literally ONLY get into shooting wars with Vulcans and human Starfleet in the entire 300+ year span of alpha canon... except for a brief span of conflict with the Klingons corresponding to the existence of the Human Augment Virus in higher strata of Klingon society, except for the time a human and a Cardassian blew up a Senator. Vulcans and Romulans are ultimately Space Elves, and so a manic fixation on humans was inevitable.
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>>66522810
...For Science!
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>>66522564
>>66522818
Vulcans and Romulans are both shit-scared of humanity, probably because it reminds them of their collective pasts. Vulcans want to guide humans so they don't repeat the same mistakes that almost got the Vulcans to wipe themselves out (which almost happened in World War 3) while the Romulans want to beat humanity back because they don't want to be pushed out like the Romulans did to the Remans and likely other species during their exodus away from Vulcan.
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>>66522810
I hardly see how it is illogical. A Vulcan goes into pon far and only has a human around, or at least the only person they feel close enough with to want is a human, so they fuck.

Realizing that the incident was far from unpleasant, the need for both of them to relieve stress and the advantages of cultivating a deeper bond they form a stable and enduring relationship that includes physical intimacy.

But they are both nobodies in the grand scheme of things and so they go unnoticed.

Vulcan's do have emotions, they just don't express them and only act and make descisions using their logic.
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>>66522903
The V wants the D.


Also are Vulcans incapable of mating / "feeling the biological rather than the emotional " state of arousal at all times like humans.. only moreso due to conditioning during Pon Far?
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>>66523728
Pon Far is possibly a side-effect of their intense mental conditioning. One could reasonably assume that Vulcans that bang out on the regular and don't restrain themselves so much are not going to have a life-or-death buildup of horndog madness.

We certainly never heard of Romulans suffering it after all...

Either way I severely doubt that Vulcans would be incapable at any time other than during Pon Far unless they're really, really repressing it.
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>>66523728
Vulcans feel emotions, they just suppress them. Pon Farr is where their desire for fuck overpowers their ability to think logically. Outside of Pon Farr, they would still feel arousal and desire, but would choose to supress it when possible.
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>>66523804
Wasn't that the case in ENT? The Vulcans who gave T'Pol AIDS had normally functioning sex drives?
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>>66523844
Also the whole Vulcan Love Slave holonovel thing.
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Ferengi episodes were best episodes.
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>>66523940
The answer is five, btw. Kerripates are bigger than tessipates and so are those melons (really, they're a network of melons, so you plant a big patch of them and they count as one plant, they're alien melons). Just in case anyone cared.
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>>66524939
/tg/ is unironically the best board
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>>66525013
And that was unironically the worst episode.
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>>66525013
The only episode that's possibly worse than Warp 10 Lizards.
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>>66523940
My nig
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>>66525648
No, Ferengi are jews, not niggers, get it right. they can actually make money legally after all
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>>66522810
We like them, despite how douchey and arrogant they can be. And they like us under all that emotional suppression, despite how naive and impatient we can be. Logic dictates that 2 communities, living together in relative harmony, would mix, create social bonds and eventually attempt to procreate.
>>
Potential story idea:
You find some ancient T'kon/Iconian nonsense that lets you open up portals to pretty much anywhere. However, when you do open a portal up, a Universe-class vessel from the 26th century pops out without any crew whatsoever. You're then charged with either sending the Universe-class back where it came from or otherwise getting it up and running for your own purposes. But it's not easy due to [Insert xenos here] stalking the urbs.
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>>66526479
What could even wipe out a whole Universe crew in the first place? Aren't they like 20k strong or something really stupid?
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Cardassians, poor man's Romulan or the best race they came up with? Trying to figure out why I like them so much. Is it purely down to screen time and character development?
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>>66526989
It's because of Dukat, Damar, and Garak's portrayals. They were all written compellingly and acted fantastically. They're our main lenses into Cardassian culture and so we all like the Cardies because their mouthpieces are fantastic.
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>>66518924
Wasnt there an earlier draft in which the BoP was a Romulan ship stolen by Kruge?
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>>66526989
Definitely screen time leading to development. DS9 had them right there on the border with a prominent Cardassian on the station. They showed up constantly and they ended up being decently fleshed out. Romulans were never more than "evil Vulcans" in any series they appeared in because they appeared so infrequently as just a generic antagonist.
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>>66527016
>>66527155
We did get a few standouts, like that Romulan captain in the Troy episode, or the defector.

How about how there's nothing too cheesey about Cardassians? They aren't built up from an exaggerated human culture or a single defining trait. They're crafty but strong, honourable but deceitful, like to drink and gamble but bar fights are duels of wit. Boundless emotion tempered by pragmatism and ambition. More human than the humans. You need a lot of good writing to sell it, but as a fictional race they'd be a real achievement for any DM. Or have I just described the Romulans sans the roman inspiration.
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>>66527312
>How about how there's nothing too cheesey about Cardassians?
Let's not pretend they were anything more than mustache-twirlers before Duet.
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>>66527378
Given that Duet is in fucking season 1 and we get 6 god damn years of great Cardassians, you know, I'm fine with that.
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>>66527155
TNG seemed to be trying to get something going with the Romulans throughout but never seemed to make it stick. Despite the whole mess with the Klingon civil war and later Spock, all the Romulan threads laid out never connected well enough to pay off. Honestly I blame Sela, who was crap. That romulan commander from the one with the iconians at least reappeared in the one with Troi getting a good episode, but the main character reuse failure was Tomolok. For a good while he really was building up as an antagonist, but then Sela stole his spot and the writers got bored because she couldn't carry shit as a character or actor.
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>>66522564
>>66522810
>>66522818
>>66522903
Highly illogical.
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>>66527566
forgot this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru9e2rTHeuk
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>>66527414
Yeah but the point was by that point Cardassians had already been around for a year and a half with little indication they'd be anything more than mustache-twirlers. Thankfully we have the entire rest of DS9 to make up for it.
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>>66527155
Unfortunately the more we saw the Romulans the more they seemed like grumpy Vulcans that were at most a few thousand years divergent, like two countries in different parts of Europe. Given all the screen time we got from Spock, Sarek, Tuvok, and T'Pol, to say nothing of other minor characters, there's not much space to carve out as uniquely Romulan that isn't down to moustache twirling or cloak (lol) and dagger antics.
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>>66525013
This an Threshold never happened and anyone that tells you otherwise is a fucking liar.
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How can you keep the Dominion War going without any side winning or gaining the upper hand?
I want to run a Cold War spy type of game and my players' favorite Star Trek is DS9, so this seems like a good solution.
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>>66530902
If it's a Cold War then they aren't actually fighting and the Dominion War has come to an end already, as what happened in DS9.

Officially the UFP (and Romulans and Klingons) and the Dominion are at peace. There is a degree of travel through the wormhole that is heavily inspected and regulated on both sides with the Dominion presumably building their own station on their side.

Players could be Starfleet Intelligence agents trying to hunt down Changeling infiltrators, traitors and Section 13 assholes to maintain the wary peace.
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>>66530943
Meh, it still won't have that 1980's Berlin feel that everyone wants.
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>>66531360
It would on Cardassia, a world of former slightly Roman Nazis formally held by adversarial forces with a significant number of the old guard still hanging around all the while both sides of the conflict are trying to seduce the population to their ideology.

UFP wants it to join the UFP willingly as a member state, Dominion wants to have it join the Dominion "willingly" as a subject. UFP agents (disposable assets) sent in to remove the Dominion collaborators/sympathisers/agents.
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Who was in the wrong here?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5jAixHhSA
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>>66530902
>Cold War
>I hear it’s bitter cold on Breen
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>>66531547
>”The Federation abandoned us”
>after they tried to evacuate you years prior
>presumably to resettle in one of dozens of colony worlds around the UFP
>and you chose to stay
>full-well knowing that you’d be subjects of Cardassia
I get what they were going for with the Maquis, but their victimhood always rings a little hollow for me. Also fuck Edison specifically. He was basically a war tourist looking to set himself looking like a hero.
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>>66531793
>after they tried to evacuate you years prior
The Federation designated planets to these colonists and because the Federation were too scared to back up their territorial claim they told them to colonize a different planet. Imagine colonizing an entire planet and your government says they no longer are willing to protect you so you have to move and do it all over again. Imagine someone came to your house and said sorry we have to relocate you, you have to leave everything you built and start over. Where does it stop? The government you follow doesn't protect you anymore. So they took matters in their own hands.
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>>66531826
It was already established in TNG that the area was under dispute and they colonized anyway. Their fault for being arrogant thinking the Federation would do whatever they wanted.
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>>66531850
It was already established in TNG that Cardassians were building up weapons for war on the border and they ignored it. The Federation abandoned those people that's why they became Maquis.
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>>66531873
It was never established that they were ignoring the Cardassians, just that they weren't immediately jumping to another pointless war. Additionally, that weapons buildup had nothing to do with the territorial disputes that were resolved in the treaty. The colonists were greedy and wanted millions to suffer just to protect """""""""their""""""""" colonies when they could've just moved like already did before.

>but muh sweat of muh brow
Yeah all that hard work using Federation replicators and industrial fabricators, big deal.
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>>66531826
They’re willing to relocate you within a post scarcity society. You’re also well aware that the new owners of the planet are going to brutalise you because they don’t want you there. “Taking matters into their own hands” in this case is so unnecessary that it borders on retardation.
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>>66531826
>too scared to back up their territorial claim
The fought a lengthy series of wars over them. What the fuck are you talking about?
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>>66531896
>It was never established that they were ignoring the Cardassians, just that they weren't immediately jumping to another pointless war.
>pointless war
The Cardassians were at their weakest and it was proven the broke the treaty. Yet they were given clemency. The Cardassians of course built up their military strength and almost took over the entire galaxy with the Dominion. All the Maquis asked was to be left alone from the Federation. They couldn't do that because like Eddington said, they wanted the Cardassians to join. Those replicators sure helped after the aftermath of the Dominion war. That sure helped to create cohesion within the galaxy. Even the Romulans started to help the Federation against the Dominion.
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>>66531940
>All the Maquis asked was to be left alone from the Federation. They couldn't do that because
the Maquis were destabilizing the area and fucking up everything for everyone involved, including themselves?

>but dey broke muh treaty
>that means kill em all!!!
Burgers, not even once
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>>66531934
They did fight a series of lengthy and costly wars with them. But they were winning. While the Federation was focused on exploration, Cardassia was busy building up it's military assets
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>>66531921
>They’re willing to relocate you within a post scarcity society.
Every border planet I've seen doesn't have the luxury to replicate whatever they need. Why else would they send replicators to Cardassia?
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>>66531951
What's the point of a treaty if you break it? History will tell you about that. The Maquis rebelled because their government abandoned them. People make it seem so easy to just give up the home and community you built and just start over. The whole point of being a citizen of the Federation is that they would protect you. They didn't think it was worth it.
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>>66531994
Getting caught violating one aspect of a treaty doesn't mean you automatically go back to war with them and start slaughtering millions again. And again, that's a separate issue from the territorial disputes, which TNG established was already known by the colonists when they chose to settle there.
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>>66532026
So what happens when you break a treaty then?
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>>66531968
They routinely mention replicators on border colonies. We even see them on a Maquis colony when Ro defected.
>why would they send replicators to Cardassia
Because the Cardassian Union has been ravaged by war and were resource poor to begin with.
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>>66532039
So help Cardassia but fuck the Federation citizens?
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Alright, here are my thoughts on the whole thing.

The Federation is not an empire. It has more in common with the UN than any single sovereign nation. They aren't a threat because they go around assfucking anybody that disagrees with them. They're a threat because if you fuck with one of them, you fuck with all of them. The UFP is the largest "state" in local space, with the Klingons coming in second. It has access to insane quantities of rescources, surpasses everybody else on a technological level and expands faster and with more success.

So imagine, now, that they threw their weight around. Say they decide to invade Romulan space because they want some more Dilithium. They would very quickly unite everybody else against them. And while the UFP could win a war against any of them individually, they couldn't win a war on all fronts.

On the topic of the Cardassian war. It is not the purview of Starfleet, or any other body within Starfleet to invade places that disagree with them. To defend themselves? Absolutely. To strike military targets within hostile territory? Totally, if you can. To set up a puppet state that more readily accepts the UFP? Well that's the murky grey area the the Dominion war leaves us with. In any war before that, they hadn't. But then the Federation has never dealt with a threat like the Dominion. (Essentially the Nega-Federation)

So, on the whole, the Feds avoid war and avoid domination. If you join, you join of your own free will. When the opportunity to end a conflict presents itself, they will pursue that option before all others. And in order to keep the Federation happy and unified, they need peace as often as possible. Wars cause suspicion and xenophobia. In a State of hundreds of different species and worlds, that sort of thinking causes problems very quickly.
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>>66532091
That being said. The Federation negotiated a crap deal with Cardassia. Perhaps this was a result of ramped up losses over the last couple years (Yamato, Wolf 359, etc.) Perhaps it was down to public weariness with the war and a general call to end hostilities (similar to how US public opinion turned against the Vietnam war). So negotiations were very one sided. The Federation gave away territory, in return for some Cardassian colonies. Colonies that the Cardassians promptly abandoned in the expectation that the Feds would reciprocate. Realistically, as the aggressors and defeated party, Cardassia should have pushed further to return to their pre-war borders.

But that's the deal that was made and that's when the Federation made its second mistake. Non domination applies to your own people too. Not only should a state fight for all of its citizens, but it should defend their freedoms to the last. By 1) surrendering their homes and 2) attempting to forcibly relocate them, the Federation did them, as well as itself, a disservice. To quote a certain officer involved in those attempted forced relocations "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Now I'm sure plenty of people willingly bailed out of the DMZ. And that's fine. The Federation is huge, there are plenty of places to relocate. But the people that stayed were abandoned by their own government, seen as a nuisance for not abandoning the homes they had likely fought to defend during the war. And that doesn't paint the Federation in a good light.

Not only that, but it sends the message that Federation colonies can be claimed with time and patience. And wouldn't you know it, the Romulans up and tried that shit with a surprise invasion of Vulcan.
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>>66532100
On to my final point. The Maquis was never going to work. Rather than forcing the Federation to intervene and protect their citizens, the Maquis made an enemy of Starfleet. Essentially they trapped themselves between a rock and a giant pearlescent ball of fuck. They made things untenable for themselves and all of the colonists who wanted to get on with their lives. As Sisko suggests, they were trying to fight a terrorist conflict like Starfleet and that only compounded the problem.
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>>66532037
Depends on the terms of the treaty and whether it's actually beneficial to do anything about it. So the Cardassians got caught smuggling weapons. The simple fact that they were caught will make it clear to the powers in charge over there that Starfleet isn't stupid and is watching them carefully. The Federation might also be able to get concessions from them over the course of the negotiations. Blowing up any chance of a lasting peace and risking the lives of millions just for one violation is seriously braindead levels of thinking, even the Ferengi will tell you you're being a moron. The Maquis are idiotic idealists who have no clue what they're doing when it comes to the big picture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdQcGzbpN7s

>>66532059
No Federation citizen is being fucked, the Maquis are just idiots who think planets and things (that the Federation gave them to begin with) are more important than people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvZe12pO9N4
"There are other places, other challenges." "Things can be replaced, lives cannot."

>>66532100
Moving to another home is not censorship you buffoon. You know what's "censorship"? Getting yourself and others killed, needlessly, because you're too fucking stubborn and naive for your own good.
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>>66532059
That’s not what’s being said and you know it. Cardassia, now at peace with the Federation, requested assistance against a common enemy.
The Maquis actively fought Starfleet and refused to negotiate with the Federation.
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>>66532091
>>66532100
>>66532114
You type a lot without really saying anything except in your final point.
>The Maquis was never going to work.
They said that about the American Revolution.
>Essentially they trapped themselves between a rock and a giant pearlescent ball of fuck.
I agree, but only because Sisko is a crazy fuck that was bent on revenge and gassed an entire planet for one man.
Eddington was right and you know it, and Sisko knows it. The Federation wanted to induct the Cardassians into their union at the expense of their own citizens.
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>>66532145
Freedom denied through forced relocation. Remember that Starfleet intended to force these people to leave through military action.
>censorship is getting people killed
... no it isn’t? For someone getting high and mighty about definitions that’s a pretty stupid thing to say.
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>>66532145
>No Federation citizen is being fucked
Are you serious? Being uprooted from where you live and where you grew up and your government that is supposed to protect you abandons you.
>Oh they have replicators it's fine they can colonize another planet all over again who cares?
So where and when does it end? When can these people finally settle down without their government abandoning them?
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>>66532152
This is what you said.
>the Cardassian Union has been ravaged by war and were resource poor to begin with.
So why do they try more to help the Cardassians than their own citizens?
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>>66532180
"Freedom" does not mean the Federation needs to bend over and obey a group of stubborn assholes at the potential cost of millions of lives. You want to stay part of the Federation? Move somewhere safe. You want to stay there? Congrats, you're a Cardassian now. Don't like it? You're the one who chose to move there to begin with.

>>66532201
>So where and when does it end?
When those morons don't settle an area they know forehand is under territorial dispute.
>"Waahhh, we should get to act like assholes and big daddy Federation should do what we say!"
Fuck off.
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>>66532213
*more than
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>>66532168
All relevant context to why the DMZ happened. Acting like it happened in a vacuum is stupid.
And I’m right. Even with the Klingon invasion, the Maquis failed to form a state. They smart thing would have been to enlist the Klingons as allies. You know, like how the Americans enlisted France and Spain as allies.
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>>66532215
>When those morons don't settle an area they know forehand is under territorial dispute.
Do you think they specifically chose these planets that were in territorial dispute to colonize? The Federation approved and then changed their mind. It's not quite the utopia that you think.
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>>66532213
>So why do they try more to help the Cardassians than their own citizens?
They don't? The colonists are handed a fucking colony for free. Everything they need. Replicators, fabricators, housing, not to mention a big empty class-M planet that had been untouched until then. They get everything. They have no needs that are not met. It may as well be a vacation for the rest of their lives. All they have to do is agree not to have their vacation in a fucking active war zone. The Cardassians, who are suffering from famines and starvation that had never happened on Earth in centuries, got a few replicators. Big fucking deal.
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>>66532231
>the Maquis failed to form a state.
Because they were stabbed in the back and then shot in the chest
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>>66532237
>Do you think they specifically chose these planets that were in territorial dispute to colonize?
Yes because TNG literally says this was what happened in the very first episode where the border colonies are shown to be an issue.
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>>66532249
Because their position was untenable without external support and they alienated their obvious allies
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>>66532243
>They don't? The colonists are handed a fucking colony for free. Everything they need. Replicators, fabricators, housing, not to mention a big empty class-M planet that had been untouched until then.
I guess you don't understand. Giving up your home. "Just give up your entire life here and everything you built. We'll build it all again somewhere else it's easy." I hope you get relocated
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>>66532254
Thanks for proving my point. The Federation knew and still abandoned it's citizens.
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>>66532265
Their obvious allies?!? They were apart of the Federation and they turned their backs on them for defending their home.
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>>66532270
There was literally an entire TNG episode about this, the correct answer is "Stop being a stubborn jackass, or die."

>>66532277
Yeah you could say the Federation knew, but more importantly the colonists knew and the Federation even warned them. Should the Federation have just straight-up said no? Yeah. Does that excuse the colonists being braindead? Absofuckinglutely not.

The Maquis are basically Oklahoma Boomers (not baby boomers) who rushed their way into a disputed unorganized territory and then got butthurt they were forced to move, like they seriously thought they could just do whatever the fuck they wanted and expect big daddy government to back them up when life doesn't work like that.
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>>66532308
>There was literally an entire TNG episode about this, the correct answer is "Stop being a stubborn jackass, or die."
You mean that's why there is the Maquis. Fuck off leave us alone or we'll fuck your shit up.
>Yeah you could say the Federation knew, but more importantly the colonists knew
They knew and thought their government would protect them. They didn't. So they had to take matters in their own hands.
>>
>>66532336
>They knew they were being morons and thought the government would save them from their stupidity no matter the cost.
Too bad for them.
>>
>>66532352
Yeah that's why they decided to take matters in their own hands. It's justified. If your government is willing to defend you then who else?
>>
>>66532438
unwilling*
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>>66532438
>killing everyone around us is defense, even when they're not actually threatening us
Ah, the Israeli method
>>
>>66532480
They attacked shipments to Cardassia.
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>>66532503
Cardassia is a Federation colony world now?
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>>66532525
Have you been paying attention at all? The Federation want's to absorb Cardassia. Why would they send replicators to them? Why? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Why not take care of your own citizens first. It sets a bad precedent for any Federation member. They can be forcibly removed whenever it is convenient to the Federation, because they aren't willing to defend their own territory. Vulcan should be given away, hell Earth should be given away. You have replicators right? You can just start everything over again right? What would be the problem?
>>
>>66532571
Your conspiracy theories aren't facts, Michael.
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>>66532571
>Out of the goodness of their hearts?
Yes. That and, as mentioned before, the fact that they were aligned against the Klingons.
>>
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>>66532644
So the Federation would rather betray their own citizens to gain a potential ally. Disgusting.
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>>66532697
Yes Michael, we get it, you think Benjamin Sisko not personally beaming down, taking his pants off, and bending over to let you fuck him in the ass is a betrayal of Federation citizens.
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>>66532723
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>
>>66532697
No longer Federation citizens, as they chose to become subjects of Cardassia. Actively hostile to the Federation.
Refused to negotiate.
No feasible means for the Federation to help them.
Now shut the fuck up and take your cyclical argument somewhere else.
>>
The whole Maquis bullshit really is a huge indicator how sheltered people like Hudson and Eddington are that they think Federation citizens are automatically perfect never-wrong Jesus-people just by virtue of being Federation citizens and how every other species should just bow down to what the colonists want. If it's easy to be a saint in paradise, it's also easy to assume that everyone else in the Federation is a saint and everyone outside of it is a devil.
>>
>>66532806
>Leyton and his coup
>Crazy Lady and her luddite colony that will make Meriem uncomfortable
>>
>>66532802
>as they chose to become subjects of Cardassia
They didn't choose that. The Federation abandoned them. They abandoned their own territory and citizens.
>>
>>66532855
>They didn't choose that.
They literally chose that.

>They abandoned their own territory
Nope.
>>
>>66532885
Yes. The Federation abandoned them and are surprised they want to defend themselves.
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>>66532913
>The Federation abandoned them
The Federation offered them assistance and they refused.
>"but muh homes!"
that the Federation gave them to begin with.

>and are surprised they want to defend themselves
Maquis acts weren't self-defense, otherwise Sisko never would've had to get involved in the first place.
>>
>>66532926
>The Federation offered them assistance and they refused.
You mean assistance in relocation. If they offered real assistance they would be getting defense from Cardassians.
>"but muh homes!"
Okay you clearly don't understand or value the importance your home has to you. Like I said If it doesn't stop there when? Vulcan, Earth? They can all be dropped off on other planets what does it matter if they have replicators? You don't understand.
>>
>>66532971
>they would be getting defense from Cardassians.
They dd. During the war. You act like the Federation did nothing while colonists were being murdered, which is objectively false.

>Like I said If it doesn't stop there when?
How about not settling in planets known to be disputed and then whining when it turns out you're on the wrong side of the border like people said you could be? Vulcan and Earth aren't disputed border worlds.

>you clearly don't understand or value the importance your home has to you
If you value things more than people then you don't value people.
>>
>>66532996
>How about not settling in planets known to be disputed
You still don't fucking get it. What do you do if Earth or Vulcan is in "disputed territory" should you pack your bags and fuck off or fight? Seriously
>>
>>66533024
>What do you do if Earth or Vulcan is in "disputed territory"
They're not so the question is pointless deflection.
>>
>>66532855
You keep on saying that but it isn’t the case. Repetition doesn’t make a thing true. The colonies were conceded in a peace treaty, just as several Cardassian colonies were conceded in the same treaty. The Federation did more than most modern day countries do by actively relocating their citizens from lost territory. The Cardassians were doing the same. The obvious compromise then is that these colonists would settle the lost Cardassian worlds and vice versa. Some of the colonists elected to revoke their own citizenship so that they could stay on Cardassian worlds. As a result, the Cardassians stopped removing their citizens from the new Federation side of the border, hence the Maquis and True Way militarised and started a war all on their own. Nobody was abandoned. They chose to stay, rejecting their governments attempts to protect them.
But we’ve gone over this several times now. And you’re just ignoring anything you disagree with. So I don’t even know why I bothered.
>>
>>66533047
>They're not so the question is pointless deflection.
It's not. To the maquis this where they were born and bred. Their homeworld is being invaded and their government turned their backs on them. It's not a deflection. You couldn't answer the question because you are coward. You are an absolute coward.
>>
>>66533061
>The colonies were conceded in a peace treaty
And like I said the Cardassians had broken the peace treaty. Jellico was right. If he attacked the Cardassians after exposing them for breaking the treaty, the Dominion war wouldn't have been so bloody. Resettlement, relocation, call it whatever you want. I guarantee you that you would not accept your government doing that to you.
>>
>>66533083
>To the maquis this where they were born and bred
Like fuck it was. The colony that started the whole mess, Dorvan V, had only been settled for a couple decades and they knew back then that the territory was under dispute with the Cardassians.

>waahhh u coward
Says the idiot advocating that millions of people die for your personal convenience.
>>
>>66533144
You are a coward.
>wahh advocating for the millions of people being uprooted and placed on a different planet.
Trail of Tears.
>>
>>66533130
I would if the alternative was being a subject of a military dictatorship. People flee occupied or conceded territory all the time. See the flood of refugees into Western Europe at the start of the Cold War. You can claim you’d stay, but then you’re unlikely to ever have to make that choice so it’s just posturing.
>>
>>66533172
>I would if the alternative was being a subject of a military dictatorship.
Like I said you are a coward. Unwilling to fight for your people and your home. You are pathetic.
>>
>>66533205
Strong words on an anonymous image board. As hollow as your argument. The Maquis thought as you do and they got themselves and their families killed for it.
>>
>>66533250
>The Maquis thought as you do and they got themselves and their families killed for it.
Yeah well they tried. I'd rather die trying than live like a bitch. That's why america exists.
>>
>>66533165
>>66533205
>If you can’t win an argument, just resort to name calling.
>>
>>66533165
>advocating that a group of privileged Federation citizens should be able to squat wherever they want regardless of whether the other guys consider it their territory
You're on the opposite side of the "Trail of Tears" argument.
>>
>>66533299
It's not even name calling. It's calling a spade a spade. If you aren't willing to defend your own home, you are a coward. Period. Full stop. Coward.
>>
>>66533357
It's not your home though, it's someone else's territory and you're squatting. Get the fuck out you god damn hobo.
>>
>>66533355
They built their homes there with no one else to displace and they get uprooted because their government doesn't think it's worth it to protect them anymore? It's worse than that. Your own government betraying you. The Federation was supposed to protect you and they completely fucked these people over.
>>
>>66533375
>it's someone else's territory
It was theirs until the Federation decided to give it up. That was my whole point. Their own government betrayed them. Sisko says Eddidngton betrayed the oath but after what Sisko does to Eddington and other maquis (gassing an entire planet for one person) I'm surprised Sisko isn't in the same cell as Eddington. Even if you disagree with me I hope you can see the way Starfleet handled the maquis situation was completely fucked.
>>
>>66533380
>with no one else to displace
It's someone else's land. Fuck off.

You know what, I'll take your retarded argument in the other extreme. What's stopping them from colonizing an open field in Cardassia? Or even an uncolonized planet in the Cardassian system or nearby space? After all nobody's using it right? So since they're Federation citizens that means the Federation should step in and defend them when the Cardassians try kicking them out. It's their homes after all! And since the colonists need to be sure they'll be protected so Starfleet should mobilize a defensive force inside Cardassian territory. And if the Cardassians try doing something about it, Starfleet should just shoot them.

>>66533413
>It was theirs
It factual objectively was not. You are wrong. The show says you are wrong. Actual information from hard canon says you are wrong. Trying to pretend otherwise means you have entered the realm of trying to overwrite canon with your own made up fantasy. THEY WERE TOLD that the territory was disputed and that it could be Cardassian territory. They went anyway, knowing this. They squatted on Cardassian territory. This is their problem and the Federation is not obliged to defend their stupidity, only offer to relocate them out of Cardassian territory which is not theirs and onto a world that is actually in Federation space.
>>
>>66533130
Boo fucking hoo. Some bored citizens couldn't play pioneer, had to be transported via luxury liner and spend a few months in the almost obscene opulence of a UFP core world before being assigned another virgin colony world.

They couldn't have been there for more than a few decades so this was nobody's "land of our ancestors" and for their inconvenience a war that would have cost billions of lives is averted.
>>
>>66533458
Explain Bajor. Cardassian territory. Shouldn't the Federation help the Cardassians reclaim their land? If not you admit that some terrorists can reclaim and consecrate their own land/planets like the Maquis attempted
>>
>>66533540
>Explain Bajor. Cardassian territory.
Bajorans gained independence, Cardassians agreed to leave, Federation didn't move in until then.

>If not you admit that some terrorists can reclaim and consecrate their own land/planets like the Maquis attempted
I mean I guess hypothetically they could but they have no right to demand the Federation prevent them from getting vaporized.
>>
>>66533555
>Bajorans gained independence
How did they do that?
>>
>>66533574
Irrelevant to this conversation because you're trying to argue two separate unrelated scenarios. The Bajorans fought for their independence without outside assistance and never attacked an outside third-party, to the extent that the Cardassians false-flagged one to try and bring the Federation in against the Bajorans. By comparison the Maquis is using Federation territory as a staging area, using Federation resources to conduct their operations, and has no qualms about attacking not only neutral third-parties but even Federation targets themselves in order to get what they want. And that's not even getting into the fact that the Cardassians were the ones who invaded Bajor, while the colonists who became Maquis effectively invaded Cardassian territory.
>>
>>66533357
You’ve never fought a day in your life, anon. Don’t act like this is anything you’ll ever have to back up with action. It’s just the stance that suits your argument.

>>66533574
Fighting for their homeland. Not some rock they claimed 20 years ago, in contention with another people’s claim. They also leveraged Federation support and appealed to the international community for support. Acting like the Maquis and Bajor are the same is absurdly reductive.
>>
>>66533727
>Irrelevant to this conversation
Absolutely relevant. The bajoran terrorists gained control of their planet. How is it any different from the maquis? There were a few bajorans within the maquis who also supported their cause.
>>
>>66533751
>How is a group of people reclaiming control of their homeland from an invading force any different from a group of squatters throwing a temper tantrum because they're getting kicked out by the people who actually own the place?
>>
>>66533739
>You’ve never fought a day in your life, anon. Don’t act like this is anything you’ll ever have to back up with action. It’s just the stance that suits your argument.
Come to my house and I will blow you away.
>Fighting for their homeland.
And no one was born on the planets of the maquis? They weren't fighting for their homeland? Get a grip. This is why these people were fighting. They had a legitimate grievance with the Federation
>>
>>66533768
Because they colonized that planet. That was their homeland. You tell them to pack up everything they built and fuck off. Of course they are going to rebel against the Federation.
>>
>>66533779
>And no one was born on the planets of the maquis? They weren't fighting for their homeland?
Nope, they were fighting to defend the unlawful occupation and invasion of another state's territory. They were not there legally, therefore they have no rights to that land.
>>
>>66533795
>Of course they are going to rebel against the Federation.
They can if they want to. Federation has no obligation to just let them do whatever they want in Federation territory using Federation resources to attack Federation-administered stations, nor do they have any obligation to side with the Maquis if the Cardassians retaliate to pacify their territory.
>>
>>66533798
People say that the claim was dubious. So why does the claim automatically get ceded to Cardassia? The Federation stabbed their citizens in the back.
>>
>>66533821
Yeah the Federation apparently has no obligation to defend its own citizens either.
>>
>>66533839
>So why does the claim automatically get ceded to Cardassia?
It didn't. It was the result of negotiations in which both sides "won" and "lost." Either way, the colonists were told that the area was under dispute and went anyway. Not the Cardassians' faults that they want to kick out squatters that are on their land.

>>66533866
The colonists willingly gave up that protection when they agreed to stay in Cardassian territory.
>>
>>66533866
You don't get to have it both ways. Either you're independent or you're not. If you're independent then the Federation has no obligation to protect you. If you're still a Federation citizen then you're bound by Federation policy in exchange for that protection. If that policy means leaving another state's territory then so be it.
>>
>>66533889
>If you're independent then the Federation has no obligation to protect you.
They sure loved Bajor. Those freedom fighters are good guys, but those maquis terrorists? Gas their entire planet.
>>
>>66533779
>Come to my house and I will blow you away.
Hey man, however you pay the bills is your own business.
Besides the Majority of the Maquis we see are older than that so your argument doesn’t hold water.
>>
>>66533914
Federation offered no support to Bajor until the Cardassians already renounced any claims on Bajoran territory.
>>
>>66533873
Negotiations which shouldn't have even occurred. Jellico was right. Starfleet should have attacked them when they were weak and this wouldn't have been a problem.
>>
>>66533917
I bet you could suck a bullet out of my glock with the safety on you faggot.
>>
>create a campaign to make a worf show
>Interact kindly and enthusiastically with fans for years promoting the idea in a fun way
>Picard gets a show

I want the Picard show but they should make the Worf show.
>>
>>66533932
>waahh why didn't they kill millions of people just to satisfy my personal convenience, waahh
>>
>>66533928
>until the Cardassians already renounced any claims on Bajoran territory.
They didn't want to fight a two front war. A terrorist style war and a full-fledged war where they already knew they would lose.
>>
>>66533948
You seem upset.
>>
>>66533951
Sisko had no problems with that.
>>
>>66533968
Kind of yeah to be honest. No one understands the Maquis. They think they are stupid and imo they had justifiable reasons for doing what they did and they should have been fleshed out more especially in Voyager.
>>
>>66533984
That world that was harbouring terrorists was poisoned in such a manner that it was impossible for humans to settle there but Cardassians could and the poison was slow acting enough that they could pack up their shit and evacuate in a nice orderly fashion.

All they had to do to avoid this was hand over Eddington.

Eddington who'd recently poisoned a planet so that Humans could live on it but not Cardassians.

It's a planet swap at worst.
>>
>>66533965
Cardassian mentality is irrelevant. They left and ceded all claims to Bajor, recognizing Bajor as fully independent. That is the only time the Federation moved in, and even then they only took over DS9 as a request from the Bajoran government. With the Maquis, they are on territory claimed by the Cardassians, therefore by definition it's an internal Cardassian matter and the Federation has no obligation to intervene. The colonists made their choice, they can't have it both ways.
>>
>>66533932

Starfleet was still rebuilding after Wolf. They were in no position to start another war.
>>
>>66534049
>It's a planet swap at worst.
Sisko should be court-martialed for what he did.
>>
>>66534087
Why? Sisko did nothing wrong.
>>
>>66534087
Ideally yes but it was too much of a "bigger picture" win for them to seriously complain about it. The Maquis threat was basically over, and the planet swap pacified the Cardassians. It was a shitty solution to an even shittier problem started by a bunch of shitters trying to drag everyone into their own shit with them.
>>
>>66534110
>Sisko did nothing wrong.
Neither did Hitler they just both love gas.
>>
>>66534037
If you think the Maquis are the homestead owners defending their homes then you actually don't understand the Maquis at all. The homestead owners are the Cardassians, the Maquis are a bunch of assholes who pitched tents on their farmland and called it their home.
>>
>>66534052
>Cardassian mentality is irrelevant.
Really? Cardassian mentality doesn't matter? The show makes it seem like a big deal.
>>
>>66534139
>trade planets
>oh cardassians are the real homesteaders
pick one
>>
>>66534192
>two ranchers next to each other
>dispute over where their land is demarcated
>both ranchers claim the area, try building their own fences, get annoyed at each other
>kids of rancher #1 want to start ranching on their own
>"okay you can have whatever area of my land you want, just make sure you avoid this particular area because my neighbor and I can't agree whose it is"
>"but daaaaaaaaaaaaaad I want that spot!"
>"well shit son, you're going to need to be an adult at some point in your life, don't complain to me if he kicks you out"
>ranchers come to an agreement on the land border, kid's spot is placed on the other rancher's area
>"hey kid you need to move"
>"but daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad it's my spot, you can't take it from me!"
>"I told you that you might have to"
>"but look at all the stuff I did!"
>"using my animals and equipment?"
>"but it's miiiiiiiine!"
>R1: "hey my kid's being an asshole, is there any way we can let him stay there?"
>R2: "I'll only agree to it if he agrees it's my land, and that all the stuff he's using becomes my property"
>kid: "deal"
>later: "daaaaaaaaaaaaaad, this guy's being mean saying I have to let him there too!"
>"you agreed that it was his spot"
>"yeah but it's my spot! you have to help me!"
>"you agreed to this, I have no obligation to help you"
>"fine, I'll poison this field so he can't use it for his animals and it's only grazable for my animals!"
>R2: "hey what the fuck"
>R1: "fine, I'll do the same thing to this spot of my land but in the other direction, so you can't graze there"
>kid: "what the fuck that was my spot!"
>R1: "you're grounded"
>kid: "this is unfair!"
>>
>>66534037
You did a pretty good job of making them look like entitled glory-hogs, if that’s what you were going for.
>>
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>http://fasaststcs.com/index.php/thefleets/
HAVE FUN
>>
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>>66535441
>mess with the proportions a little, and it would be a dead ringer for the Starfleet insignia...
>>
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>>66535496
I assume the warp half-rings(crescents? they aren't nacelles or full rings) rotate for landing
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3aJoZugg8
>>
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>>66535520
http://fasaststcs.com/index.php/thefleets/united-federation-of-planets/star-fleet/
It's a glorious goldmine spanning decades of weirdness
>TFW don't even hate this one that much, just need to fix nacelle placement
>>
>>66535596
the malformed great granpappy of the Sovereign
>>
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>>66535653
still better than half of Cryptic's crap
>>
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>>66535767
absenceofgod.gif
>>
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>>66535893
NOT A SINGLE THING IS CONSISTENT
WHAT MADMAN WOULD DRAW THIS
>>
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>>66535970
Who liked the curry enough to update it?
>>
>>66536069
AH FUCK MY EYES

This one deserves a special hell of its own.

>>66535520
I don't think they rotate, there's not really any convenient junction nor particularly suitable places for landing gear.

>>66535441
>take all the parts of a regular Miranda and just move them about

why.jpg
>>
>>66531940
>All the Maquis asked was to be left alone from the Federation.

You can't want to be independent and free from the Federation's rules and all of the obligations that come with Federation protection and then REEEEE about the Federation not putting itself on war footing and fighting an interstellar power for your sake.
>>
>>66535970
It’s close the precipice of true madness but it’s not quite the beautiful horror it could be
>>
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I HAVE A PLAN
IT INVOLVES BAJORAN WORKERS
>>
>>66537449
Yeah that's why they became terrorists
>>
>>66538586
...what is this "art" based on? I feel like these are characters I'm supposed to know (not the DS9 ones, but the ones they're modeled on) but I have never understood what they are or where they're from.
>>
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>>66538846
That would be the character Ruber from Quest for Camalot.

It's one of those so shit you have to see it to believe it films.
>>
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>>66538846
>>66538919
A horrid abomination of a movie: it had big names in the cast, a top-level studio producing it, music that actually did well on the top 100 list...BUT GOD DID IT SUCK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMoJrpvqA0M
>>
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>>66538944
Gary Oldman voices the villain, and Jaleel White is the chicken
I wish I was lying
>>
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>>66539001
Eric Idle and Don Rickles play two heads of the same dragon, and somehow aren't funny
>>
>>66539034
Now that right there is a fucking crime.
>>
>>66538846
Images such as that and this were made WITH PRIDE!
>>
>>66538944
>>66538919
Ok, now that I have some context, I see why that's fairly funny. I should really watch that movie. I wonder if you can find it on YouTube.
>>
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Shit this one actually looks good, would use.
>>
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>>66541434
NOT SO FAST
>>
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>>66542024
...
CAW
This one though, not so much. Like not even a little.

Incidentally, what's some good small team or individual specialists that might be roaming around the UFP that people could run into?

Thinking of NPC encounters and such. Had one idea for an ex-starfleet engineer, older person specialist in warp drive tech that's not cutting edge but merchant fleets and the like in more backward areas still see a lot of use of it. Someone whose seen some shit but is out of date, knows it, and is turning it into a strength.
>>
>>66517077
>Who would have had the upper hand in a war if Chang's plot succeeded?
Putting aside the sensible Romulan answer for a second, in the actual fight between the Federation and the Klingons, it changes dramatically over time. Short term the Klingons have a strong advantage. While this is the most militarised that Starfleet had ever been up to that point, the Klingons have actively been preparing for this war and would have short term objectives, capable of inflicting serious casualties on the Federation.
But with each day the war turns against them. Unless they can secure another source of dilithium in Starfleet territory, no doubt the most well defended locations outside of the core worlds, their fleet will starve of fuel and Starfleet will push them back to Quo'nos.
For the Klingons it's do or die. For Starfleet it's simply a game of outlasting the last gasp of the Klingon Empire.
>>
>>66542888
>Short term the Klingons have a strong advantage.
Aren't you forgetting the Praxis Space Kablooie? Chang picked the worst possible time in the entire 23rd century to pick a fight with Starfleet.
>>
>>66543005
They still have a fleet, armed, manned and fueled. The Praxis Space Kablooie has set a ticking clock on how long that will last, but if they go all in they might do enough to secure other resources to supplant those lost at Praxis.
>>
>>66526479
Sounds like the next season of STO...
>>
>>66534074
I know 80ish ships is a pretty big loss of life, but is that even 10% of starfleet's combat-capable craft arm? Singular classes like the Miranda and Excelsior probably number higher than that.
>>
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Fucking finally. Apparently this took forever because the original CG file from Nemesis was lost.
>>
>>66543658
Did the Scimitar really have that stupid paneling on it in the film? If so, I literally never noticed.

Also, lol at the file being lost, that's entirely unsurprising.
>>
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>>66543701
>Did the Scimitar really have that stupid paneling on it in the film? If so, I literally never noticed.
It did, yeah.
>Also, lol at the file being lost, that's entirely unsurprising.
IIRC it was the same for all of the Nemesis ships, but Eaglemoss were able to do the Valdore and the Argo shuttle because new CG models were already made from scratch for the Ships of the Line calendars.
>>
>>66543779
>It did, yeah.
Well I'll be fucked it did. That's bizarre. How have I never ever noticed that? I've seen Nemesis like 6 times, how did I miss that one? Crazy.
>>
This is okay if you like the Voyager "Flashback" model/DS9 CGI model and not THE Excelsior from the movies.
>registry is all wrong
>no lines on the flat top of the engineering hull
>engines are blue instead of black
>>
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>>66544304
This is the Excelsior model, being refurbished for Star Trek VI...
>>
>>66544304
>This is okay if you like the Voyager "Flashback" model/DS9 CGI model and not THE Excelsior from the movies.
All of that is easily explained as a refit though. The blue glow engines were a 24th century upgrade.
>>
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>>66544331
...and this is the one they made for "Flashback" when they realized they couldn't rip off the additional Enterprise-B parts from Generations without causing serious damage to the original model.
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>>66544336
But the Excelsior's nacelles never glowed blue, they were always solid black.
In fact, in Flashback, they switch back and forth from stock footage from TUC to new model footage and the blue glow disappears and reappears.
>>
>>66544368
>But the Excelsior's nacelles never glowed blue, they were always solid black.
Many Excelsiors did in DS9. Hell, we saw Constellations and Mirandas with similar registry numbers get the blue glow upgrade in DS9. Voyager being an inconsistent crapshoot isn't necessarily hard canon.
>>
Well, personally I'd just take some paint to the nacelles. Might be able to find decals or make them to replace the nameplate, repainting hull details is doable too I guess but far more work.
>>
>>66544383
Flashback was garbage compared to Trials and Tribble-ations. While DS9 was extremely dedicated when they tried to match The Trouble with Tribbles, VOY halfassed matching The Undiscovered Country. Hell, they have Valtane die in the episode when you can clearly see him at the end of the movie.
>>
>>66544461
I also feel like someone fucked up and thought it was Tuvok in Generations (the Enterprise B bridge officer Tim Russ also plays)
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>>66538586
>>
>>66543779
How does that work if games have been using Scimitar models for years?
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>>66543521
It’s enough of a dent to make Starfleet reevaluate their foreign policy. That’s all we really know.
>>
>>66543235
I can see it now
>lets you command a Universe class ship for a mission as a gimmick
>completely clears your traits tray for no well explained reason
>bugs your endeavours
>features Denise Crosby as 4 different versions of Sela
>all other VO work done by the only 2 “voice actors” that Cryptic keeps in the basement
>brief non-sequitur excursion to the mirror Discovery timeline because Chase Masterson was busy that weekend
>Worf is there but awkwardly has to be talked around because Dorn is pricey
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Really not a fan of this one, though everything is really on the one that commissioned it rather than the artist.

The colour scheme is terrible. The console layout is fairly terrible too. Replacing large seated areas with standing only, and a utterly minuscule tactical console with no chair. And yet there's still two positions on the helm/nav console, which if this was a design to cut down on the amount of bridge crew, seems like a waste given that there's 3 major banks of consoles going without seated positions yet that one could have been cut down to a single person.
>>
>>
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This is nice but the captain's chair seems kinda pointless, might as well have them at a bridge station in such a simple, compact set-up. There's less going on with this than a runabout in terms of control required after all, and is probably mostly automated.
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There's also a distinct lack of cup-holders that should be mandatory.
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>>66535970
Huh, I’m pretty sure I built that exact layout but bulkier out of LEGO when I was twelve
>>
>>66551177
>>66551203
Yeah I didn't think it was possible to fuck up the basic Excelsior bridge template that much, but that's horrible.

>>66552042
>>66552291
This I like. It has character. I could well imagine the superfluous captains chair being something that was specifically installed by the captain to make it more of a "proper" bridge. There should be chairs at the side stations though.
>>
>>66542098
just spitballing:

Federation Commissioner: a bureaucrat who can and will commandeer any and all Federation assets to serve whatever mission they've been dispatched on. The more at odds with reality, the better.

Agro-xeno-botanist: a bit of a mad scientist, who specializes in tailoring triticale hybrids to alien climes. Comes in seen-it-all-old-fart or Outdoorsy Nature Girl varieties. Probably delivers the episode's Aesop about "symbiosis" or whatever.

The Entrepreneur: independent trader type who mostly seems like an upstanding Federation citizen, but with a materialistic streak that may turn cutthroat under the wrong circumstances. Might have their own ship, or might be a broker who also contracts their transport. They either know a lot about the sector, or they've run out of their depth chasing the big score.

Junior Diplomat: an attaché with high ideals and high charisma. They may be good at gaming out negotiations but don't have the pull to make problems go away. Good source of authorized information, comes up short against the harsh realities beyond the Federation.

The Colonist: Short speech, short temper, and actually just short. He (or she) also posesses considerable practical skills, and is quite tough. Surprisingly dependable in an emergency, but it takes some convincing to get them to do anything before that point.
>>
>>66552042
>>66552291
I feel like this captains chair needs a whip or riding crop to beat the guy in front. It feels very evil overlordish.
>>
>>66555371
More like a row of beer cans just dumped down the side of the chair on top of a beer fridge.

I do like the hand holds though for the standing consoles so at least there's something to hold on. Even though there should be chairs, even just fold-out.

It's just one of those things where I think that small ships should have their systems control centralised into the bridge for monitoring rather than having people all over. If you've got a ship that needs maybe a couple dozen crew or so, since the basic functions are still the same as a larger ship, there's basically no point having them anywhere but the bridge and the engine room given most of the time when their on-duty hours are just going to be keeping an eye on things whilst it goes from one place to another.
>>
>>66551153
You forgot the OC Donutsteel science girl that gets introduced in the first mission and ends up being way more important to the final mission than admiral (you)
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So how do you like your crew quarters? Barracks? Shared rooms? Luxury apartments?
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>>66559815
The latter, obviously. Barracks/shared rooms suck if you've ever actually lived that way. Even in the space future where everyone's a good person and genuinely nice you're gonna want your personal space and given that you're stuck on a boat with these people for literally years that personal space is more important than ever.
>>
>DAMMIT, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO REMEMBER WHERE I SAW THIS AND IT'S BEEN IN MY FAVORITES ALL ALONG
But yeah, several months ago someone was asking why the freighters looked so weird
>>
>>66559815
Depends on the mission profile. Luxury apartments are ideal for long-term deep-space missions. General patrol craft can get away with barracks or at least shared rooms. General rule of thumb is, if the crew is expected to be living on ship longer than they spend at starbase or on leave, give them actual rooms.
>>
Just bought the Voyager box sets. Just breezed over the synopsis. This is going to be the best $220 I've ever spent.

>Maquis and Federation tension
>Diverse cast of rookies, non-Starfleet members, holograms, Borg and new aliens
>feeling of isolation and desperation of a crew of lost travelers
>potential for character development and varying relationships among the crew
>development on the Borg that is likely to ensue

This is going to be the best ride through a piece of science-fiction ever. I can't fucking wait!
>>
>>66560855
I almost think this is bait. Like, really man? You spent $220 on Voyager sight unseen? That's... really unbelievable.
>>
>>66560855
I hope this is the joke it so obviously could be. Because otherwise I’m so, so sorry for what comes next.
>>
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>>66517077
So we don't know exactly how Andorians mate, but we know it involves four people

My question to the thread is, do they have to do it that way every time they want to fuck? Gather three other people for a foursome? Do they ever fold a non-Andorian partner in to the mix to complete the tetrad? Like a trio of them hit a bar to pick up a fourth? Do they call it a "one nightstand" because a nightstand has four legs?
>>
>>66562479
>we know it involves four people
No, we don't know that. Stop perpetuating that fucking meme. All we know for sure is that Andorian *weddings* require four participants. Their mating is not clearly discussed at any point.

As for the rest of your post, keep your fetishposting to yourself.
>>
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>>66562517
>All we know for sure is that Andorian *weddings* require four participants. Their mating is not clearly discussed at any point.

Oh yeah? You're telling me four people get married for the express purpose of not fucking?
>>
>>66560926
The real bait seems that he got it for only 220$. $tar Trek may feature space communism in-universe, but it's never seen a dollar they didn't want to wring from the audience.
>>
>>66562525
Modern Christian weddings require 4-5 people:
>officiator
>bride
>groom
>1-2 witnesses
But I guess humans need 5 people to mate.
>>
>>66563328
>He didn't fuck the officiator and both witnesses on his wedding night
>>
Why do people still choose to age and die in the Federation?
>>
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>>66564364
Because the Federation outlawed the genetic science necessary to grant them eternal life, fearing what a race of Augments would bring
>>
The 50th anniversary bluray set any good?
>>
>>66564364
The Federation has tricked everyone into thinking that aging and death is a good thing and anyone that says otherwise is a creep that deserves smug scorn.
>>
>>66565194
Remember that time Picard said that age was a friend that traveled at your side only to find out a few years later that he was going to get old person space dementia and spend the next 40 years shitting in a diaper?
>>
>>66565194
This. It's the only reason I can think of why they don't use the transporter to give people their youth back.

I mean for fuck sake Picard got turned into a 13(?) year old and was told he'd age normally if they left him as he was. Even if no other forms of longevity are used he gets to live to be 150+ and spend that time doing all the things he never had time for in the body of youth but with the wisdom of age.
>>
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Do you think it would have worked as the post-Federation Star Trek continuation it was so clearly meant to be?
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>>66566200
No. Because Cpt. Hercules couldn't act for shit, the writing was shit, after they completed the main quest they had nowhere to go and then god awful cowboy town episodes that just seem to never end.
>>
>>66562517
We can assume from the fact that Shran and the Aenar lady had a kid together, and that Shran was going to marry Talas and just Talas, that it's all Beta-Canon bullshit dreamed up from a throwaway line like all of the worst ideas.
>>
>>66566200
>>66566303
If you ever find yourself working with Kevin Sorbo, you have to wonder if you'd just be better off going back to college and getting a degree in something related to business.
>>
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>>66566897
The problem is that people thought that tall and in good shape = acting talent.
>>
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Hey, I brought up the idea of doing a horror-themed campaign in STA, heavily based off of "The Terror" and the Voyager episode "Night", a few threads back. I've since got a group of 5 interested in playing and I've written up my premise. First session will hopefully be this weekend.

USS Crozier - Excelsior Class (Franklin Refit)
Stardate: 52867.1
Location: Starbase 45, Baffin Sector
It is mid-November, 2375 and Starfleet is finally resuming its peacetime mission of exploration, some months after the end of the Dominion War. One of the longest enduring missions of Starfleet has been to find a safe passage through the Baffin Expanse. Dangerously high levels of theta radiation in the region have made navigation through the 500-lightyear deep (at its narrowest) anomaly almost impossible. 4 ships have been lost in the Expanse since its discovery in 2279. The USS Alexander (Ambassador Class) had some success forging a path in 2358, but was forced to turn back as theta radiation levels became dangerous to the crew. Since then, numerous unmanned probes have failed to withstand the expanse and the project has largely been abandoned.
At present, the quickest return journey around the expanse takes approximately 3 years. This journey is undertaken regularly to reach Caeron Prime, a major supplier of Dilithium to the Federation and long-time strategic ally. This route relies on the good will of several minor nations allowing Federation vessels to cross their territory and could be threatened by the heightened post-war tensions. In the aftermath of the Dominion War, this supply line is crucial.
Starfleet has decided, once again, to attempt a fording of the Baffin Expanse. A powerful array has been built at Whalefish Point, with a receiver on the opposite end of the expanse at Gordon Station. The array has been firing high energy bursts through the theta radiation clouds to help map their density.
>>
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>>66570517
After months of data-collection, the researchers at Whalefish believe they have discovered a region of low-level radiation that could be crossed by a Starship in little over 5 months.
Enter the USS Franklin (NCC-4278) and the USS Crozier (NCC-4288). Both 2nd-generation Excelsior Class starships. They were due to undergo the Lakota Refit in mid-2375, as part of the war effort. However the surrender of the Dominion put a halt to those plans. Since then they have undergone a significant overhaul to prepare them for a journey through the expanse. Extensively hardened radiation shielding. New, resource efficient power plants and engines. Theta radiation-resistant computer systems. High-power sensor arrays. Together, the Franklin Expedition ships represent Starfleet's best chance of crossing the Baffin Expanse unguided.
The ships will travel together, splitting up only to probe different passages along their route. They will deploy a series of self-sufficient transmitter relays to act as waypoints for future journey's through the passage. Should the passage turn out to be untenable, the ships will return along the waypoints to Starbase 45.
The journey will not be easy. The expanse is treacherous, poorly mapped and communications within it are spotty at best. However Starfleet have high confidence in Captain Du'vat of the Franklin and Captain Hickey of the Crozier. Both veterans of the Dominion War with experienced crews. Du'vat will lead the expedition. But you will play Hickey's command crew aboard the Crozier. You will have to explore a mysterious region of space, learn to understand the rules that govern it and keep your ship and your crew in one piece until you come out the other side.
>>
>>66566112
But that's probably against the Cosmic Plan.
>>
>>66571215
God, Picard is the worst. He’s such a smug hypocrite.
>>
>>66571715
To be fair, that was season 1 and 2 of TNG. everyone was a smug hypocrite.
>>
>>66572797
It's almost like the people who bitch about TNG being a bunch of hypocrits in space didn't watch more than a few episodes of the first two seasons. It's kinda like they don't actually like Star Trek but just want to bitch about something and seem cool by being contrarian. Almost.
>>
>>66570517
>>66570536
I actually really like this premise. Would totally play in this game.
>>
>>66571715
>>66572797
"Cosmic Plan" only ever comes up in one episode, it wasn't even Picard who said it, and it was immediately discounted like two lines later. It was probably only added in to establish that the Federation is explicitly not a society that actually believes in such a thing.
>>
>>66573586
It's almost like people don't actually watch the show but instead just pick up on memes and spout them without a trace of irony. This is why mocking theym and ignoring them is the solution.

>>66570517
>>66570536
I apologize for not commenting on this earlier anon, but I like this. However, I'm not getting much of a horror vibe here. I can see how it could come up but for the most part it just seems like a good exploratory premise.
>>
>>66572797
That's a fucking lie and yo know it. It was mostly Picard.
>>
>>66574040
Prove it.
>>
>>66573483
>>66573890
Thanks, I'm really looking forward to running it.

As for the horror elements, I'm not front loading them. Although anybody with a vague familiarity with the real life Franklin Expedition might guess where it's going. I've settled on a few things already.
The ships are going to run into a lot of problems as a direct result of the system upgrades. Minor things at first that the players might not notice or piece together but they'll all begin to stress the crew in an already stressful environment. The replicators start to go wonky. The computer goes on the fritz or basic life support functions start varying.
Captain Hickey, who I've intentionally left as an NPC, will gradually become an antagonist for the crew as the combined effects of the expanse and his trauma during the Dominion War begin to leave him unhinged. They'll get separated from the Franklin, only for the next ship they find to be the last Starfleet ship to get lost in the expanse, dead for decades. They'll begin to figure out that maybe they're not alone in the expanse at all.
At some point the sensible decision will be to turn around and use the waypoints to return home. But they'll find the signal relays have gone missing. From there on I'm going to leave the survival of the ship and the crew entirely in their hands and see where that takes us.
>>
>>66574082
Application of the Prime Directive
>>
>>66574953
see >>66574082
>>
>>66573586
Picard being a hypocrite who loves the smell of his own farts is true regardless of whether or not he said the cosmic plan line. That was Riker with his usual nonsense.
>>
>>66570517
>>66570536
>Franklin expedition
That's like naming a cruise ship "Titanic II"
Love the premise, but just cutting across the shortest part of the badlands is a moot point if the Federation already knows what's on the other side
Maybe have it be either "finding a route that unmodified ships can follow to reduce travel time" or "travel through the majority in order to map the interior and find a cause"
>>
>>66575705
>That's like naming a cruise ship "Titanic II"
The Chinese are working on one now iirc
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>>66575672
>Picard being a hypocrite who loves the smell of his own farts is true
see >>66574082
>>
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>>66575705
>That's like naming a cruise ship "Titanic II"
Or naming an exploration vessel "Voyager"
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>>66575705
>finding a route that unmodified ships can follow to reduce travel time
That's what I'm going for. The expedition will be probing along the passage to find a safe path for regular ships, if one exists. Hence the waypoint markers.
>>
>>66575820
...That explains so much about "Janeway's Search for More Coffee"
They were literally cursed from the beginning
>>
>>66575705
I feel like an idiot for only just now realising that that's what the Franklin is referencing in Beyond.
>>
>>66535520
I kinda like it, but then again, i like the astero in eve online so im a bit wierd
>>
>>
The death of this general and of /40krpg/ saddens me. Soon there will be no reason to come to /tg/
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>>66582358
It hurts anon
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>>66582358
This is the future CBS chose.
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>>66575977
The souls of redshirts will rise up and claim them all. They need a ship to cross the river, this one will do.
>>
>>66570517
>>66570536
I like it. A little on the nose with the references but this is a good premise. Feel free to storytiem whenever you have a session. Used to love reading the Ophion ones but that anon seems to have disappeared.
>>
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Remember when you dorks said I wouldn't get the ablative armored Voyager from Endgame?

Yeah who's laughing now?
>>
>>66586112
When did anyone say you wouldn't? It's been obvious they'd dig up all the dregs they could to fill issues for years now.
>>
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>>66586827
Still missing quite a few. STO has literally given them an infinite well to draw from even before you include variants.
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>>66587037
>an infinite well to draw from
>STO

An infinite well of shite. Great. Just what they need.
>>
>>66587165
Name five objectively aesthetic Trek ships.
>>
>>66587273
Just 5?
>Excelsior
>Connie refit
>Sovereign
>B’rel
>Prometheus (when it’s in one piece)
>>
>>66587487
>Sovereign
>Prometheus

If you find those aesthetic then you have no right to complain about STO designs, half of which basically used those two as starting points.
>>
>>66587717
Plenty of fan designs use source material as a starting point, doesn’t stop them being shit.
>>
>>66587756
If you really can't admit the Luna class is one of the best designs ever, you're beyond saving.
>>
>>66587839
I can admit that. But successes like the Luna are rare, I’m sure you’ll agree.
>>
In Star Trek Armada III, what does CTA, NEM and TFF mean in the map selection?
>>
>>66588299
Which expansion they came with.
TFF = The Final Frontier
CTA = Call to Arms
NEM = Nemesis
The only reason that matters is that the maps don’t necessarily support all the new Sins features depending on whether their makers are still with the mod team. I think it’s the CTA dude that bailed recently.
>>
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>>66587961
It's not one or the other, there have been stronger designs and weaker ones and a lot of it comes down to personal preference. I'm not going to defend most of the designs, especially the really retarded ones like pic related, but there's more than a few decent ones and every now and then some great ones.
>>
>>66589565
That’s fair. I quite like the Andromeda-Sutherland-Lafayette design lineage.
>>
>>66587273
Connie refit
Atlas
Pioneer
Nova
NX refit
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>>66590797
>Atlas
My man!
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>>66575977
Does anyone have saved what the most unlucky number designations for a Starfleet ship?
>>
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>>66593150
>Bottom-left
>>
>>66531951
But thats wrong they didn't just ask to be left alone, they broke away then started shotting at the Cardassians while trying to use the Federation to keep the Cardassians from
just sweeping a fleet in and purging every renagade colony in the DMZ. That's not even getting into the folly of bringing up Eddington
a man who was so far up his own ass he equated bombing colonies with bioweapons to stealing a loafbread.

Pretty sure whatefver sympathy the Maquis had outside the DMZ ended when they started using bioweapons to try and ethniclly clense said region.
>>
>>66593591
Why did you respond to an argument that ended three days ago in a way that made it obvious you completely failed to understand the post you were replying to?
>>
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>>66586827
I know it's the intended design, but I much prefer the Ambassador model they threw together in a rush over the Probert design.
>>
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>>66559847
That seems unnecessarily cumbersome when you can just attach a cargo train to any magnetised, dockable surface and be fine. See the Ptolemy for reference.
>>
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So the AoTF dudes just did a stream outlining the stuff they'll be adding to the 2nd release.
>general rebalance
>finish UI elements
>Orion minor faction
>Reman minor faction
>more maps
>make it so the ai knows how to build shipyards
>Xindi Probe random event
>Trader random event (like in STA3)
>Narada random event
>Doomsday Machine random event (seemingly will be different to STA3 event to incentivise fleet coordination)
>setting-specific space anomalies
Looks to be about halfway done and there's not going to be a full Romulan faction until the 3rd release. But at least with the remans we might get more of a look at some of the Romulan models.
>>
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Just found this up for preorder on a third-party online store. Where did this get announced?

Not exactly "make your own campaign" material, but seeing Chang makes me pretty enticed.
>>
>>66598427
I did not know that was happening. Pretty dope. Chang, Borg Queen, Q, Khan, the Gorn captain dude, what looks like Lore, and possibly Dukat? Don't know the dude in back on the left though.
>>
>>66518924
But then we wouldn't get Kruge, and Kruge is awesome.
>>
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Are Gorn really this big?
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>>66599304
They've been smaller, only slightly taller than human height in the two appearances they've actually had in hard canon, but most soft canon seems to want to portray them as being a lot bigger.
>>
Give me ONE good reason I shouldn’t assign my STA group to a robust and efficient Norway-class.
>>
>>66602761
I guess there aren't many canon shots of it so you'll have to rely on what you can find off of deviantart for ship art. But yeah, you do you.
>>
>>
>>66599304
For you.
>>
>>66566200
Eh, I mean, kinda. The crew feels wrong though. They're closer in concept to a before-their-time version of the cool hipster type crew from one of the canadian-produced bastard offspring of farscape and firefly. Trek crews are a lot of things, but "cool" is rarely one of them. And even post-fed, star trek universe crews would still adhere to some kind of a uniform, they wouldn't go full on space pirate.

Anyhow, fuck the haters, I liked the show, but it's more like a 2nd cousin of next generation than a member of the immediate family.
>>
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Well this was a nice easter egg
>>
Any non-poorfags here own that 50th anniversary set of TOS?
>>
>>66606043
I may be wrong but I think you can also have a reaper from Mass Effect spawn in, very rarely. The teams have shared model designers in the past so it would make sense.
>>
>>66602761
Because the ship is the main character and robust and efficient are boring character traits.
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>>66602761
There isn't one. Norway-chan is good ship.
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>>66599016
>Don't know the dude in back on the left though.
Almost assuredly Locutus
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>>66609183
Shit, that didn't even occur to me. Good call, anon.
>>
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>>66599304
>Orion Slave (Female)

This website had ruined me.
>>
New Thread
>>66609914
>>66609914
>>66609914
>>66609914



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