Every fanatsy setting made by Americans are just America with a different coat of paint on top.
Every fantasy setting made by The British is just Britain with a different coat of paint on top.
>>66234908What about Conan?
>>66234908>people are ethnocentricWoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
>Reads modern fantasy books
>>66234926>>66235144It's not even about ethnocentrism as such. While British or Scandinavian or Chinese fantasy may feature mythologized version of their own past, American fantasy is just a mythologized version of American's present.>>66235155Well no, since I don't fancy reading about America I don't.
>>66234908What annoys me is that most Western fantasy settings still reflect modern morality, or toe the political line. I can name two settings that don't follow 'modern' morality: Sword of Truth and Gor. That's about it. At least Japan occasionally acknowledges sex slavery in a non-negative light.
>>66235232>Sword of TruthThat's only because SoT is literally Atlas Shrugged but with wizards and shit.
>>66234908It's no longer as bad as it used to be, but 1980s/1990s American fantasy is all about rugged frontiersmen disregarding kings and effete nobles, getting married and having strong children to teach hunting and fishing to. Just change up some details and you get the Midwest.
>>66234908S.M. Stirling and David Drake would like to refute that claim. So would Elizabeth Moon and Anne McCaffrey. And C.J. Cherryh for that matter. And Alan Dean Foster, Christopher Stasheff and Terry Brooks.I can do this all day.
>>66235128>Valor pleases you, Crom; so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to hell with you!
>>66235653What fucking authors did you read in the 80's and 90's? Because I was reading Daffad Ab Hugh, Joel Rosenberg and Terry Brooks and I don't remember any of that shit.
>>66235789Just terrible no-name dollar store ones I bought second hand. No different from reading generic technothrillers, I guess
>>66235861You may have been reading westerns by mistake Anon.
>>66235753Don't forget Robin Hobb.
>>66235653>depictions of manly men are "too American"Lol
>>66235754>RevengeYep that’s (((American))) writing all right.
>OP makes thinly veiled request thread>everyone, including me, falls for it
>>66236003I mean, in Bongistan you can be arrested for being a Chad>>66236117
>>66234908Have you ever seen America?It it only natural to try and spread it's GLORY to anything one touches. If one were to make idealized fantasy, the result would be a SUPER AMERICA.
>>66234908This is so patently false it is even worth interrogating. Serious question: Why are Europeans such fags about this kind of stuff? I’m not even defending American sci fi or fantasy lit right now
>>66236129>Stockholm>Bongland#just mutt things
>>66235210Okay so don’t read it then you stupid faggot. Problem fucking solved lmfao
>>66236164In his defense the differences between the various Islamic republics in Europe are minute at this point
>>66236193All the clever people left to America ages ago.
>>66236117>Despite Boduljak's assurances that he didn't use steroids, she forced him to go to the police station and give a urine testIs the reporter fucking retarded? Should the police just trust that when someone says they are innocent that they are? THAT would be a fucking bongistan legal system.
>>66236203Yep, now they just have people who change the knife bins and arrest Chads.
>>66235232Now that you mention it, I wonder how many /pol/fag homebrews there are.
>>66236232That would imply they had friends.
>>66236251It doesn’t take friends to write compendiums of lore, anon. Lord knows I’ve written eight novel’s worth of the shit in my attic all on my lonesome.
>>66236222>Despite Boduljak's assurances that he didn't use steroids, she forced him to go to the police station and give a urine test>Is the reporter fucking retarded? Should the police just trust that when someone says they are innocent that they are? THAT would be a fucking bongistan legal system.The point is that the police shouldn't be allowed to compel someone on the street to take a steroid test just because he's swole.
>>66235653Same as how eastern european fantasy and scifi always has a sneaky opportunist working against the corrupt bureocracy and secret service. Or how japanese fantasy always has a school setting and a virtual world.
>>66234908LIVING IN YOUR HEADRENTFREE
>>66236243Not really. Bioshock attempted to deconstruct Rand's philosophy, though it would probably been helped in that regard if the philosophy of the anatgonists had actually been Randian and not a distorted cariacture.ToS just straight up is Randian fantasy, with the heroes being Rand's typical ideal egoistic men and women, and the villains being her hypocritical socialist strawmen.
>>66236340So the characters suck in that one as well?
>>66236340Bioshock showed the natural consequences of listening to dipshits like Rand. That is, a society that collapses into violence and decay the moment the dictatorship holding it together is challenged. Sorry you're butthurt about that.
>>66234908Wheel of Time is like a perfect counter example though, given how much eastern and british mythology influences it.
>>66236288Chances are him being swole wasn't the only reason steroid use was suspected, but leaving out whatever that may have been makes his story sound better.
>>66236363To be fair, people should also consider the bio half of bioshock. Rampant addiction ruins nations.
>>66236363I'm not really butthurt as I'm not a Randian. Though I get tired of how many people would rather intentionally misunderstand and misconstrue whatever their opponent's argument is regardless of which side it concerns. Rand is no exception in this. As I said, her villains are all strawmen as well.
>>66236363>Libertarians create an underwater dystopia full of mutants with sea slugs that produce super powers grown inside little girls.Ayn Rand addresses why this would never happen in the Fountainhead but something tells me you only ever read reactionary pieces done by Big Daddies on the dime of that hack Steinman.
>>66236354The protagonist female lick period blood off of the protagonist male’s dick during a blowjob while thinking he is a different character. Said protagonist female also gets magically vicariously raped. Protagonist male & female are both cannibals as well. & the protagonist male also almost literally dies when the author realizes his hypocrisy of the guys magically unforced vegetarianism & his penchant for murdering everyone (especially pacifists)No one should use The Sword of Truth as “good literature” it’s the single worst fucking series of books put to pen. I finished the series out of spite & vitriol to see if that bloated carcass rip off of Wheel of Time was ever going to add up to anything redeeming but no. It’s worthless. Richard Raul losses his war against the evil commies but pulls handwavium magic out of his ass to magically teleport everyone who doesn’t want to live in his Randism magical realm onto Earth.I can say nothing for Gor except that it sounds like the equivalent of Sword of Truth except ripping off Barsoom instead of Wheel of Time
>>66236369That patchwork of various cultures is incredibly American though.
>>66236462>patchwork of various cultures across a large continent is incredibly americanAre you dumb or something?
>>66236461>No one should use The Sword of Truth as “good literature” it’s the single worst fucking series of books put to penI'd like to know why it has sold copies at all beyond the first two books. The first book was odd but ... I can see people reading it. The second was garbage and should have ended any interest in seeing the series out. I guess it's a testament to the human urge to read a story or idea until it's complete.
>>66236571>patchwork of various cultures across a large continent is incredibly americanThat is what America is.
>>66236578it's what any continent is you dipshit.
>>66236371Your statement is largely unrelated to the post you replied to, which was commenting on the statement that the reporter was "fucking retarded".
>>66236462Yes cause as everyone knows Europe, Asia, Africa and South America are each single culture continents as they have always been.
>>66236590Didn't you hear? All Middle-Easterners have the same culture. Persia is the same as Egypt and the Ottomans. There's no difference in cultures on the Indian sub-continent, nor the Steppes or even in China, where the Ugric people are the same as the Cantonese. Only America is a patchwork of cultures anon, duh.
>>66236003I think it's more the European lack of frontiers. In Europe a frontier is just as populated as everywhere else with no lack of government presence, the only difference is that across the border are assholes who talk funny and want to make your frontier their frontier. Disregarding kings and effete nobles is a lot hard when everyone crammed together lik fish in a barrel, and getting in a fight with them usually means you'll be easy pickings by the assholes across the border.
>>66234908What about Tékumel?
>>66236578I think you've been brainwashed by /pol/ into thinking monocultures exist. In reality, all the continents with people living on them had dozens of distinct cultures. You moron.
>>66236590Cultures that you find next to one another on other continents typically share many features as ideas have been borrowed and forth between them. Because of it's history, however, America has a literal patchwork of ethnicities and cultures.And the specific combination of British culture and Asian mysticism is so white suburban America that it isn't even funny.
>>66236574That's the thing. People want to see the Titanic go down all the way. They read bullshit knowing that it's bullshit, and get indoctrinated or tolerant at some point on the way down.
Write what you knowThe problem is that americans only know garbage
>>66236665The cultures of randland typically share borders and cultural themes too, if you actually pay attention. You're just shitposting now.
>>66236665That's bullshit tho. There's more difference in behavior between a WASP Californian yuppie and an WASP Appalachian redneck than between an asian-american and an irish-american.Only NYC really has the "patchwork of cultures" thing and it's mostly because there were five mass migrations there in 60 years with the chinese, irish, freed blacks, italians and jews all coming in and refusing to integrate.
>>66236617Did you forget about the sunni/shia holy war that's been going on since the start of the century, with the prospect of never actually ending?
>>66236665I saw less difference between Minnesota to Florida than I did from Austria to Italy. Hell, the attitude change from Denmark to Germany is stark, as is it from Denmark to Sweden. From Britain to France even more so. America while multicultural, doesn't particularly stand out, and Russia is even more extreme, although they do share the post Soviet attitudes.
>>66235930Essentially many are low-tech Westerns. Tad Williams' MST trilogy is pretty good though, apart from the not-Jesus religion it does a pretty good job of positing different cultural standards and morals. >>66236003That specific kind of manly man is really an American thing.
>multiple cultures sharing a continent is an american invention. What the hell happened to history education in this world?
>>66236713Did you miss a buttload of sarcasm in his post?
>>66236742Ironically enough, America.
>>66236742It's not that, it's that Americans often have a very peculiar style of writing about a mishmash of cultures. Example: I'm currently reading a pretty terrible sci-fi book, and the main character is some shade of brown, guess he's supposed to be Indian or something. He listens to funny music, eats funny food and attends strange festivals, but he also has a pool, picket fence and grill and loves his two kids and Not-Space America. The deeper cultural level is just not there.
>>66236617Egyptians were black retard.
>>66236890What, only one?
>>66235753>S.M. StirlingWe just going to ignore dies the fire?
>>66236668Meh. I gave up GoT by the third chapter of the first book.
>>66236869>people raised in two cultures must pick one and only one to go 100% ham onEverytime you try to justify yourself, you just get even more stupid.
>>66236222People should have the right to not be harassed, yes.
>>66236757Which continental plate is London on?
>>66236916I wasn't talking specifically about GoT. More like, people start reading something they know is political and brainwashy, thinking it might have some sort of intellectual value. And before you know it, they get completely consumed by ideas and suggestions present in the book. It's like teenagers in a goth phase but without irony or self-criticism.
>>66234908Imagine this in actual medieval setting
>>66236928>implying they by and large don't
>>66236602The reporter most likely is, because nowhere on Earth is saying "no sir, I'm innocent, I swear" a freecard.
>>66236590There's a difference between how such diversity is depicted in America and in, say, Europe. In American fantasy people look different but act the same, because that's how it is in America. Meanwhile, in Europe and most of the rest of the old world, the shallow stuff is often similar across manygroups but there's deeper differences below that.
>>66236965>tfw you have two spider plants and watering them will be weird after reading thisThanks for ruining the hobby for me.
>>66237111Except the example used at the start of this thread is a direct counter example to your argument. In Robert Jordan's series, people look different, and act different, with some cultural similarities based on geography or explained in the books.
>>66237111That's how American fiction is but not really how America is, it's just that culture is tied so heavily to class that people don't really notice it because they don't often deal with people outside their class
>>66236979You mean north Africa? Yup it's basically that.
>>66236902Dont pretend you did not understandEvery egyptian man of power was black retard
>>66236954What’s political and brainwashy in GoT? Never read them, genuinely curious.
>>66236928>raised in two culturesNothing in anon's post suggests that
>>66237211>hurr durr you have to be ebul to be good at politics>hurr durr incest is actually kinda, you know?>hurr durr girls shouls fuck fat guys more
>>66237204>Every egyptian man of power was black retardI don't think homo sapiens changed all that much in the capacity of their brains in the last 6 thousand years
>>66236954100% this.When I started reading Sword of Truth, I was in high school & it was just another cool fantasy series, (with a lot of fucked up shit, but so is Stephen King) so it didn’t really phase me until later, but I started to agree with the character & the book really did start to “brainwash” me into being more open to Randian philosophy. It presents the “hero” with situations & surprise surprise the “hero” is always justified & correct no matter the atrocities because readers will fail to realize that the author creates the villains & the heroes & the conflict. The author controls the outcome. So some authors use this to justify their beliefs with strawmen villains (SoT features villains that are ALL evil rapists, they have no nuance)It was only after a few books & it starting to effect how my own burgeoning development of reason that I started to self reflect & ask myself deeper questions on why I was even reading the book & why I didn’t agree with the hero yet wanted to support him. As much as I hate the whole fucking horrid series & want to personally punch the author, I have to say that it DID help critic my own viewpoint of the world & be more objective & judgy of what media is trying to advocate, using protagonists.
>>66234908If it is, I don't see it.
>>66235653>disregarding kings and effete noblesNothing wrong with this.
>>66236222If the cop took a sperm sample as well, and extracted the samples personally, then I'd be ok with this so long as she was a 6+.
>>66237271>hurr durr you have to be ebul to be good at politicsIf you've met a genuinely good politician who has any real amount of power I'd like to hear about the bridge they sold you.
>>66237326If you want money and power there's like a million different ways to get both that are both easier and more effective than getting into politics.
>>66237211For the second time, I'm not talking about GoT.
>>66237202In north africa they'd both be wearing headscarves, have their clits snipped off, etc
>>66237204We wuz kangs n shiet
>>66235128Yeah this. Conan is literally Africa, Europe, Scandinavia and Asia all rolled into one big continent literally.
>>66237342I never said politicians were smart.
>>66237204>high class egyptians were known to shave their whole bodies but still make themselves dreaded wigs of their own, straight hair.>every sarcophagi of note has fine, sharp features like those of greeks and celtiberians>Tutankhamun was literally a gingerWe wuz fuck off.
>>66236363Not an objectivist, but basically the plot is: >Allegedly libertarian paradise created>Something something something>People rebel and society collapses >Fictional failed state is horrible therefore libertarianism is wrongThe straw man libertarian system is really a top down socialist dictatorship, and collapses for reasons related to that. As political commentary, they never get around to making the case for why libertarian systems might turn out this way. It's a critique that can be used on ANY political or economic system. Also: if you're getting your political science from Vidya rather than real history, then you're confused about who the real fedora in the thread is. (Hint: it's you.)
>>66237204What is “sub Saharan Africans”?
>>66237390>Tutankhamun was literally a gingerYoy're thinking of Rameses II
>>66235210>mythologized version of American'sYou got a problem with perfection?
>>66237299I kinda feel the same way about the Culture. The worldbuilding and story are great, but there's a massive elephant in the room with how Banks tries to present a grey and morally dubious world as a black and white setting with clear-cut morality.It constantly flips between being masturbatory and preachy, and both the author's and the culture's values are presented as absolute truths. To make matters worse Banks really loves writing psychopaths, maniacs, possessives and other flavors of retard, so everyone including the robots is exactly like a batman villain, except they're the good guys and you're supposed to cheer for them.There is an implication that Banks' ideal society produces nothing but serial killers and criminals. If it was intentional it might even be secretly brilliant, but Banks doesn't strike me as an author capable of self-criticism.
>>66237311Yeah but I'd like to see something different for a change. I get that American culture/history ingrain a massive distrust of authority into the people. Still, reading books of red-blooded Americans or American expies punching foreign NATO generals and refusing to bow before the queen of an allied nation just to REEEE about stepping on snek... It gets old.
>>66237709To the victor goes the spoils.
>>66237709It’s not distrust of authority imo so much as it is distrust of distant centralized power where the ruling class never sees the people they’re ordering around. American culture respects authority when said authority is coming from someone who they believe is down in the trenches or factories with them.It’s why near every President tries to play up their working class or military roots even if they started st the top of the company or never got deployed directly into the meat grinder because of their status.Americans like LOTR despite being a monarchistic system because all the heroic Kings/Regeants are at the front of the battle and get messed up as much as anyone else.The only real negative rulers are the ones like Wormtongue and Denethor who hide in towers and make bad calls.
>>66237709I'd say it's Europeans who aren't rebellious or hotblooded enough. In the last ten or so years we've had a culture of never questioning authority, even when the authority figure is corrupt, lacks any relevant skills even on a basic level, or not actually a person but just the letter of the law or a passive-aggressive text message.It's led to a corporate culture where secretaries and HR have almost absolute authority over productive employees and a climate that encourages nepotism and corruption.
>>66237972There's a lot of overlap between a small or family-owned business and a feudal estate.During the time most people worked in large corporations such as GE or Dodge, sci fi was much more popular than fantasy and fictional societies were almost always ruled by engineers and other experts.
>>66234908What about Brandon Sanderson or Robert Jordan? Frank Hebert? If Dune is just America why can't I bleed my opponents into my Sietch well and then have a spice orgy?
>>66234908>People who lack specialized knowledge tend to project what they're familliar withYou don't say?
Which part of America is the Sermons of Vivec?
>>66237972>It’s why near every President tries to play up their working class or military rootsIt's kind of hilarious to see two Ivy League presidential candidates try to slander the other as being elitist while trying to depict themselves as part of "us common folk". Like how Bush Jr. made a big deal out of being a mediocre C student.... at one of the most prestigious universities in the world where even a "mediocre C student" probably has more value than a straight A student at a state college. Also kind of ironic when you realize that the Founding Fathers were aristocrats who wanted to preserve voting rights to the landowning elites because they feared mob rule.>>66237980>I'd say it's Europeans who aren't rebellious or hotblooded enough.Eh... I'd say there's France. France is one of those tragic "worst of both worlds" cases though.In America, there's distrust towards the state and a sense of rebellion. The attitude of the old-fashioned American (a dying breed sadly) is "keep the government out of my affairs and let me do my own thing".Most Europeans (Germans and Scandinavians first and foremost) have a high degree of trust towards the state and tend to be conformists. Their attitude can be described as "the government will provide for me and I will do ask my government asks".France.... the French hate their government, yet at the same time demand the government takes care of it. Which is why every president is hated, every political party is hated, every government policy is hated, every law is hated and a fucking fuel tax results in millions of euro's worth of property damage (which will have to be reimbursed through public money of course... but taxes can't be increased... which means more borrowing to justify spending... which is why France got in the shitty position where a fuel tax results in riots in the first place). Their attitude can be described as "the government will provide for me and then it can fuck off".
>>66234908What about Edgar Rice Burroughs?
>>66238233>Also kind of ironic when you realize that the Founding Fathers were aristocrats who wanted to preserve voting rights to the landowning elites because they feared mob rule.And to prevent the tyranny of the majority where the more populous states would dominate the lesser states.
>>66238233>Scandinavians first and foremost have a high degree of trust towards the state and tend to be conformists.Which of the Nordic countries would you say counts as Scandinavia? Not dissing, I'm just wondering where you draw the line.
>>66238466I'll be honest: I forgot Scandinavia and the Nordic Countries were different things for a moment. I guess I was just talking about all Nordic Model countries, where high income taxes are tolerated in exchange for good social services.
>>66238491Right, right. I was just wondering is all.
>>66238441Go read how politicians debated during the time when voting rights went to landowners only. It's vastly different than how politicians campaign today and lead to more actual discussion on issues.
>>66238533Pretty sure it's more a thing about time. During the 1860s France had universal male suffrage yet it didn't result in the demagoguery that's so common today. It's more that debates in parliament only became familliar to the outside world through writing. Which meant newspapers were THICC BOYES and anyone who had an interest in it would read the entire debate, start to finish, and be able to put names to certain arguments.It's more the media that changed things around, with the omnipresence of camera's resulting in an obsession with quick, snappy one-liners that will make it to the 8 o clock news. That, and political parties were A LOT weaker back then, meaning you had actual individuals that had to be convinced to vote a certain way rather than strong party blocks.Put those two things in CURRENT YEAR (ie. weaker political parties, all correspondence on political debates happens in writing only) and suddenly political debates are a lot more serious. Also female suffrage was a mistake.
>>66234908That sort of thing does tend to happen when you're from a country that has almost every climate and biome aside from rainforests.
>>66237980>In the last ten or so years we've had a culture of never questioning authorityGermany, I...
>>66236647no knows or gives a fuck about the empire of the petal throne. sorry dude.
>>66238466On a technical level Scandinavia consists only of the countries currently situated on, or - as in the case with Denmark - which historically have controlled significant amounts of land on it. Meaning, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Iceland, Finland, and the Faoe Islands (and maybe Estonia) are all Nordic but not Scandinavian.
>>66235232And surprise surprise, Sword of Truth and Gor are both garbage.That said, Sword of Truth's shtick is actually modern morality, just shitty Randian modern morality. Gor's morality isn't really present in any real historical society either. As much as I dislike his writing, GRRM's books are much better at simulating the morality of a medieval society than either SoT or Gor.
>>66238781It being the Scandinavian peninsula. I brain farted halfway through writing that sentence.
>>66238815Asoiaf if proof that you can write about political subjects and (pseudo) history without forcing your own views on the readers or on the characters.
>>66236461Forgive me but Wheel of Time was unbearably boring to me. I read the prequel book first and tried to start the first actual book, but the mysterious stranger guy was fun sucking. I stopped reading and forgot to go back. Should I go back? Is it actually worth it?
>>66238927I powered through, like, 10 books and I ended up hating most of the cast. I ended up giving up. Now I read Conan instead.
>>66238646>rainforestsEver been to the West coast? They may not be *tropical* rainforests, but they're sure as shit rainforests.
>>66238233Scandies have a high level of trust in general. There's been a culture of mutual trust and sense of responsibility for a long time, where everyone expects other to pull their weight. This has pretty much erroded these days, and been replaced by ineffecient bureaucracy and a need to control everything and every now and then somebody wanting to introduce a borderline informant scheme to deal with tax evasion, and decreasing trust in the government and respect for authorities.Might be rose tinted glasses, but shit has gotten worse.
>>66238927I enjoyed my time with WoT, but I won't recommend it to anyone else
>>66238069You don't earn enough to get involved in the spice orgies.
>>66238971The best thing that I can say is that a lot of human interactions and social interactions are realistic. It seems to really harp/highlight on moodiness for certain protagonists and that is annoying. Some of the character growth is great; some character growth is terrible. I, too, quit around book 8.
>>66238927To an extent. It's been a while, but I remember the middle/end of the series involving a lot of filler and faffery (I recall one of the middle books being effectively ~700 pages of two separate character groups traveling), to the point that it felt the series should have been over but Jordan was making too much money to let it end. I didn't read the final book so I can't say how that went.
>>66239134Conan's an incredibly good palette cleanser. I haven't found a good physical copy of the series, but the Dark Horse comics have been really cool so far. I gotta find the books sometime so I can get to the best shit. R.E. Howard was an OG nigga when it came to gritty shit like that. Like, I recently read Spear and Fang and that shit was short and nice.
>>66234908Yea, all of those american pikes, full body armor, and knights....
>>66236170>Shit that's literally force-fed to you thanks to bunch of international treaties>Just ignore it, lmfao
>>66239246All those American sensibilities, ways of thinking and fetishes...
>>66238646Pretty sure we have rainforests, we just don't have tropical rainforests. Could be wrong of course.
>>66235210whats wrong with this america is pretty okay. though it'd be nice to see them use other eras from their history for fantasy
>>66237271>hurr durr you have to be ebul to be good at politicsThe books are trying to construct a thematic narrative throughline about the horrors of war, how power corrupts, how history is written by the winners, and how "Heroes" and "Villains" are a product of revisionism, while in reality even the most pleasant, honourable people can get cast as the villain if they're on the wrong side of a war.
>>66239314We got rainforests.
>>66236203>All the crazy people left to America ages agoFtfy. As an American, I agree with this statement.
>>66239285Where do you live that forces you to read trashy American fantasy novels?
>>66239353Pasta alert.I've seen the exact same comment with the same wording yesterday. You didn't even bother changing anything.
American fantasy is based on rigid rules while European fantasy is mystical and weird.RPGs need rules to function.
>>66239398>>66239285Yeah seriously i live in America and I haven't even set foot in a movie theater since 2016, and the last scifi I read was Chinese scifi. If you think it's difficult to ignore American culture you simply lack strength of will.
>>66239472Fellow murrikan here, the only thing I know about Game of Thrones is that there's incest, asspulls, and apparently the last season is a massive disappointment.
>>66239411 I liked anon's comment and I agree with him
>>66235128Or Oz?OP is full of shit.
>>66239658Tbf, Oz is all about how only basing the dollar on gold is a bad idea.
>>66239726I never thought it would come up in this thread but fiat currency and reaganomics destroyed your entire economy.
>>66239770No, like, the entire book, even though the story itself is very fun and charming, was created with the intention of saying that silver or bimetallism is a better option than gold to base the dollar on.
>>66239770>>66239806Also, just because I learned about what it actually means doesn't mean I'm a citizen. The article that explained it during the lecture was written by someone from my country, even.
>>66239380>Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results>Current goal of Europe is a single state under Germany’s leadership.>Oh look, England and France are pissed off again.>Oh look, Poland hates Jews again.
>>66234908I wish. I’d love a setting with a Washingtonian war-god, with the story being about the political intrigue of the republic.
>>66240335I think Germany managed to make the old house painter happy with their authoritarian strongarming for unification through their unelected bureaucrats. But they'd probably also piss him off for being too impotent to feel anything resembling national identity and instead opting to create some malformed, multiethnic empire.
>>66237402I mean the way I read the plot was >rapture works for the most past (big plus for libertarianism in my mind)>everyone forgets that since not everyone can be Superman there’s an ignored underclass>the real problem however comes less from big businesses forming mini dictatorships, but from a single bad actor- Frank Fontaine>message being libertarianism would work if not for the inevitable grifters that would eventually game such a system>hence we need a firm government to stop such griftersOverall I thought it was too lenient on libertarianism as an ideology, since class comes off as an afterthought, and while big business is viewed critically, it’s far from the main focus- everything bad that happened came from Frank Fontaine, who very much isn’t a libertarian- he’s a mobster.
>>66240404All real empires are multiethnic anon. You don’t get an empire by only invading the people that look like you, because that’s usually not all that much land.
>>66240335>surely handing out guns willy nilly to militants in the middle east to weakon Russian presence in the region won't come back and bit us in the ass this time
>>66240478Yeah, but in their case they're importing ethnics by the busload. All because Merkel thought she could get some PR rep by shouldering the disaster that is Syria.
>>66240511All first world nations import people to maintain population growth. College funds are expensive- so native populations make less kids. Besides- Merkel’s going for a diplomatic victory anyway.
>>66240544>Besides- Merkel’s going for a diplomatic victory anyway.She admitted it was a mistake because now niggas from all over are illegally entering to get some handouts, not to mention how she ended up just forcing every single nigga in the EU to accept a quota of them regardless of what each nation wanted to do about it. Besides, if she wants to import people she just needs to look to Poland.
>>66236340Lol angry socialists
>>66240478This is a bit misleading. Yes, they are multi-ethnic. But often one ethnicity rules over all.
>>66236117>>Revenge>Yep that’s (((American))) writing all right.So revenge is now an exclusively American concept for some fucking reason.How far up your own ass can you get?>>66240335>Poles do thing: Thing is badBut when Americans burn their president (Bush, Obama, Trump) in effigy everything's business as usual, right?Poland is like that kid everyone blames when the teacher asks who's fucking around.
>>66240613The successful ones (that last long) are the ones that make the new ethnicities part of the empire- so they now have a vested interest in the empires success, rather than a desire to break away. The Aztecs are a great example of what happens when you piss on your subjects too much.
>>66240651>when Americans burn their president......it's done as a form of protest, of political speech. There's also no history in the US of presidents being violently discriminated against. I'm not sure why this has escaped your notice, anon.
>>66240693>There's also no history in the US of presidents being violently discriminated against.Were you around during the 2008 election? Obama's race was a massive selling point.
>>66240693>jews are eternal victims and never did nuffin wrongWhig history is fun.
>>66236117A cute stockholm asst. police officer will never feel up your muscles and make you take a drug test.
>>66240712Tbf, he won twice in a row on a platform of "I'm black."
>>66240712Anon, if you consider that in any way equivalent to what I was talking about, I have to question your competence to even have this conversation.
>>66240486The mistake wasn't arming people,it was not helping them rebuild the places they blew up with the weapons we gave them after the Russians fucked off.
>>66240834While I’m off the belief that America should just ‘buy influence’ i’m not sure how much influence we could have bought from the Taliban in Afghanistan by Marshall Planning them.
>>66234908There is a lot of low effort, low quality fantasy that fall into this category. The statement as a whole is false though. You are full of shit and you know it.
>>66240783>Anon, if you consider that in any way equivalent to what I was talking about, I have to question your competence to even have this conversation.Oh, we're condescending now? Here, let me try.I'm so sorry you can't seem to make the connection between the fact that a racist effigy is somehow absurd and shocking in the context of nations with people who think their lawfully elected President is literally the antichrist. Seriously, look at the things that happen just in Florida (or for that matter, Greece) and tell me that this kind of finger-wagging wouldn't be better spent directed inwards. Europeans like to blame Americans for a hilariously ironic problem- they like to pretend Americans are constantly overstepping their bounds with regards to what is and isn't culture-appropriate, but 'it's okay when WE do it'. It's imperialist when America fights a war to liberate a conveniently strategic economic area with fringe religious groups who behead their enemies in graphic displays they deliberately record (and virulently hate Jews, btw), but the Poles decide to burn Judas Iscariot? That effigy looks like a Jew, shut it down!
>>66240893>all this whataboutism
>>66240866Influence enough to dissuade people from flying planes into our infrastructure, I'd hope.
>>66240926They'd do that anyway, probably. There's, like, a billion different factions in that hellhole.
>>66240912Yeah, but my entire point was that first-world countries like to be offended at anything other than their own behavior, so whataboutism is entirely appropriate for the topic. Thanks for playing, though.
>>66240959Scratch that, I take that back, that's inaccurate. What I should say is that first world countries love to be especially offended by other people's behavior. Given that you can't swing a cat without someone crying animal abuse these days.
They hate us because we’re all they know. Nobody gives a shit about France, for instance
>>66240926Al-Qaeda was associated with the Taliban, sure, but IIRC we'd've likely needed to do something about Pakistan (specifically the border region with Afghanistan, whose proper name escapes me)
>>66238069You don't bleed vaguely Slavic mercenaries dry? How else do you water your lawn?
>>66235210>. While British or Scandinavian or Chinese fantasy may feature mythologized version of their own past, American fantasy is just a mythologized version of American's present.Every culture fantasizes about its peak.
>>66241222Ouch! that is the best burn I have seen in a long time.
>>66241288>Ouch! that is the best burn I have seen in a long time.I thought spending time in the anti-America Mecca would give you something better than that.
>>66240893I think that says more that Americans should crack down on their own stupidity than anything else.
>>66236117A qt female police officer made up an excuse to take him back to her office and check his bod. If he decided to complain instead of get laid I have no sympathy for him.
>>66241535>I think that says more that Americans should crack down on their own stupidity than anything else."Cracking down" on "stupidity" sounds dubious at best.
>>66235210Well, America doesn't have nearly as much past to mythologize as Scandinavia etc. We kinda murdered most of the people who'd been here before 1600, and we didn't exactly do much to preserve the culture or history of the remainder (not until relatively recently, anyways). I don't know that we could call properly "American" history to have begun until the mid-1700s, which only gives us a few centuries compared to the millennia of Europe/China (not to mention the massive disparity in documentation, though that affects Europe more than China).
>>66241607>We kinda murdered most of the people who'd been here before 1600Yes, all 10 of them. >and we didn't exactly do much to preserve the culture or history of the remainderMaybe because it's really goddamn hard to apply modern progressive sentiment on 1600s pioneers, especially when all 14 the niggas who know the entire history of their tribe through song are trying to kill said pioneers and/or the tribe of 30 across the river.
>>66236232Few if any. /pol/tards make it pretty clear they don't play tabletop gaming.
>>66238601You are a mistake.
>>66240466>everything bad that happened came from Frank Fontaine, who very much isn’t a libertarian- he’s a mobster.Plus, y'know, we have no reason to think that Ryan is a Libertarian or Objectivist other than the developers telling us he is. His reaction to nearly being out competed is to attempt to regulate the free market, for crying out loud.
>>66240544Refugees cost more than they bring in. If it was about tax revenue it would be more economically sound to not let any of them in.
>>66241996Also just the fact that most of them end up as welfare parasites and/or low-wage nobodies who keep their heads down because they decapitated five men back at home.
>>66242039>Also just the fact that most of them end up as welfare parasites and/or low-wage nobodiesThat's what I said, though I put it in less hostile terms. Though, even if refugees were able to integrate and find jobs at the same rate as natives you would still have the problem that many of them arrive near the middle of their lives and thus still don't pay nearly as much taxes as native born before retirement.
>>66234908American made fiction for american readers.Same logic in Japan's animes.t.South American
>>66240651>Poland is like that kid everyone blames when the teacher asks who's fucking around.The problem with polish people is that they have no self awereness. At all. They never really consider how others might react to their actions, and most of their controversial fuckups are aimed at domestic audience. Now, if poles actually had a "fuck you i will do want i want and i don't give a shit about what you think" attitude, this might not be so bad. But they actuallly do care a lot about how the rest of the world sees them. They just don't understand the relation between their actions, and foreign reactions. The cycle is simple:>group of poles get angry about something or other>they do something inconsequentiall but flashy, basially virtue signalling to other poles about how cool and independent and patriotic they are and how they are standing up for their country,>somebody outside polnd notices their stunt and raises shit about how hilariously stupid/offensive it seems to be>other media catch up and spin it, becasue its always feels good to show how backwards and silly these eastern guys are, not like us progressive and modern civilised people.>poles catch up that west is attacking them, large amount of poles get angry, because they feel like the attack is completely undeserved and unfair, and why are they lauging at us?! We shall show them! >go back to point 1 and repeat ad infinitum. Thy are like a puppy who took a big steaming dump in the middle of a carpet, and then act all sad and confused when people yell at him, and then shat on the carpet again because of the stress of being yelled at. i live in poland/spoiler]
>>66242120The native born are very "expensive" because they require two decades of upkeep before they become productive members of society. From a cost-benefit perspective it would be better to import adults who immediately became productive, if that was an option.
>>66236723>Tad WilliamsHey, I kinda liked Tailchaser's Song.>>66236909I was thinking "The Peshawar Lancers" or "The General" really, but yeah.>>66238233TBF, mob rule has always shown itself to be super shitty.
>>66242360>The native born are very "expensive" because they require two decades of upkeepYeah, and they still are a net positive for the state. Refugees aren't. It's fine that they don't. We don't allow refugees in to make a profit off of them but because we think it's the right thing to do.>From a cost-benefit perspective it would be better to import adults who immediately became productiveLabor migration is economically positive, yes.
>>66242410True, but there's a huge spectrum between "mob rule" and "only landowners vote but non-landowners are still expected to pay taxes and fight for the country".
>>66242360Yeah, it'd be better but these brought-in-bulk Arabs tend to be classified as "unskilled".
>>66240466>>the real problem however comes less from big businesses forming mini dictatorships, but from a single bad actor- Frank FontaineWhat does this remind you of?
>>66240926We’re the ones being influenced. 9/11 was done solely to strain racial tensions in the US. And it’s working even to this day. Sandniggers need hanged but we got a shared enemy.
>>66234908>Wheel of Time is just AMERICAWew. Good bait or brainlet, either way you get another (You).
>>66241535We might be in a shit situation, but we’ll still outlive any European country.
>>66242743I want to know what retardation led to that conclusion, but I know your answer would be more than dissapointing.
>>66242873The main reason I hate America is because it's actually better than Europe.
>>66242360The native born have other advantages on the specific type of immigration that is brought. Aside from the difference in skills already mentioned. High incarceration rates and criminality in general has also an immense cost. Not to mention the difficult to quantify cost of social unrest.
>>66242506I agree, but then by my reasoning, taxes are extortion and voting is an act of violence.
>>66245676Maybe that's why it ought to be possible to pick and choose. I remember this one idea that I heard somewhere that went somewhere along the lines of: 'Would it not make sense that Europe would open its borders to prosecuted Christians and Yazidi from the Middle East, while the Islamic states accept the Muslims?'
>>66242506Yeah, I think that's why they ended up ratifying the Constitution and adding the Amendments.
>>66241017The US dominates on every level, from economic to militaristic and cultural, but that doesn't make it better in the sense one should be proud of. If I beat everyone up in middle school, or for that matters is simply admired looked up to by all other kids, but my domination on other children is a negative influence on them, it would be better for me to be weaker and less important.I'm French and I don't wish France was more important ; but I wish America was less.
>>66245757>but I wish America was less.If America lessens, then the Communists or the Russians will just fill the gap.
>>66245740Well, if we're just imagining things, you could have people pass a series of psychological and physiological tests aimed at evaluating their capacities and probable behaviours. But who would support that? You'd get insulted out of most discussions for even mentioning it.
>>66245792I don't wish for a gap. I'm glad China is rising. It will bring some equilibrium at least, some room for third positioning - which I personally, for many reasons, think is the best option for individual countries able to take it. I don't deny that is also a risky development though.
>>66245797Yeah, that's why it's kind of difficult to carry something like that out IRL because testing them at a level like that sounds dubious. It'd have to be regulated heavily and at that point it wouldn't really be refugees as much as just groups of immigrants.
>>66237315>so long as she was a 6+.Do yuros normally have children as police officers? That hardly seems practical.
>>66245812>I'm glad China is rising.That's the problem right there. The big Red empire is not something that I would ever want to see rise especially in its current condition. >It will bring some equilibrium at leastYeah, it'll be good to give the most populated country on the planet that's run as a dictatorship more ground on the world stage. >I don't deny that is also a risky development though.'Risky' is betting on poker. Giving Communists more ground is insanity.
>>66245740And how would you test if someone was muslim or christian? It's sort of hard to prove beliefs.
>>66245813I would support it in abstracto, but in most countries such a proposal would create such a fierce political outrage it would be harmful, so that yes, most feasible is indeed just the selection of migrants on a case-by-case study of their background, which most countries already have, with sharper criteria. I would think that method tends to be just as, if not more arbitrary though.
>>66245868That's the point, it'll be too expensive and too dubious and that's why I'm not so sure about it.
>>66245875Refugees are also not really being given asylum based on 'being useful' so much as human rights concerns. So saying 'You're in enough danger in your own country to qualify but you're not useful to us so piss off' is a bit shitty.
>>66245850China as 'communist' is a joke - it's ideology, but it's only that. China practically is only communist insofar as it is, indeed, a dictatorship. You think the Communist Party is eternal ; it's not. If China enters an economic crisis, the Communist Party will fall. It's one of the country with highest yearly number of strikes per capita. Suppression of dissent is already being increased by Xi and it isn't for no reason.The important thing though is that China has no wish to affect other country's political mechanics. I despise democracy but don't worry ; China won't push against it in western countries. It won't push for more economic equality either, if you're scared of that.Since the 90s we've seen what America being a super-power looks like ; that is, America has been the main cause of large scale wars, and it has internationalized its economic laws to the point where it can put on trial foreign companies for corruption in foreign countries and take the fine's money. It has also let its financial sector run crazy, which if anything, is the bigger risk of the three here.If Chinese presence stabilizes middle-eastern powers by supporting them, however shit they might be, instead of bombing them, if China pushing against international economic laws and institutions being dominated by the sole interest of the US, and if the financial balances shifts partially towards more regulated Chinese norms, that'll be good. Sadly, I also have doubts about the last one being that much better.
>>66245909Ok I didn't get your point. Yeah refugees are just an exception to normal immigration policies. So it's not hard to have it taken into account alongside, or even overriding, normal procedures, whatever they might be. But you're right of course, that does mean there is always going to be some amount of background check (here it could simply be ; which country do you come from) as well. For criminal antecedents, as well.
>>66236340I could never get through the Sword of Truth stuff, it was just dumb. But Evil Lord Raven Dark the Dark Raven Lord turned out to be a socialist caricature? I thought he was just the picture of 2 dimensional cartoon villain that does bad because he is bad, and his parents named him Darken.
>>66246013> If China enters an economic crisis, the Communist Party will fall.You think a party with a history and a leader that's shrouded in myth is just going to fall?>The important thing though is that China has no wish to affect other country's political mechanics.What about how they're funneling money into African countries to spend on building shit in exchange for political control?>China won't push against it in western countries.I'm worried about the Belt and Road thing that Emperor Xi's pushing. Anything that man touches scares me. >It has also let its financial sector run crazy, which if anything, is the bigger risk of the three here.It's a risk in the sense that it'll give opponents to the US leverage for their cause. >If Chinese presence stabilizes middle-eastern powers by supporting themForeign intervention is doubtfully going to stabilize anything there, I don't think anything is going to stabilize that powder-keg of the world.>America has been the main cause of large scale warsSince the Second World War all we have had is skirmishes. >and if the financial balances shifts partially towards more regulated Chinese norms, that'll be good.>Sadly, I also have doubts about the last one being that much better.At least I agree with you on that later part.
>>66246159>You think a party with a history and a leader that's shrouded in myth is just going to fall?I don't think it's 'just going to fall', but its whole narrative and popular support relies on it bettering the lives of Chinese immensely. As this process slows down, the educated upper classes will wish for alternatives ; and the lower classes are already pretty angry. You're right it's not certain, but it's way more probable than people think. People thought China was going to 'become democratic as it developed', it didn't, and now they're flipping their shit ; but I don't believe a second the CCP is as eternal as it makes itself out to be. It might become so if Xi develops technologies of social control or transforms it from a corruption machine to some system of elite selection though. But if the latter happened, honestly, that's as good if not better than democracy for me.>What about how they're funneling money into African countries to spend on building shit in exchange for political control?Well, I didn't mean they don't wish influence ; everyone lobbies for geopolitical influence ; I meant they don't wish to change the political system of other countries. They're not the USSR ; they don't want to create 'other communist states', as little as they are so themselves. Chinese political control in Africa, is it really that bad? We the French have had influence in Africa for more than a century ; the British too, and Belgium, etc. Certainly we still do now, years and years after the colonization. I frankly think it's better than what it would be without it ; but is China doing a bad job there? This is shrouded in propaganda from all sides. For now, I think they aren't doing any worse than we are.
>>66246159>I'm worried about the Belt and Road thing that Emperor Xi's pushing. Anything that man touches scares me. I'm with you there. They are buying strategic companies and places in Europe. Greece is already sold, and Italia (the right wing's current favourite) is doing the same. This is awful. But everyone selling their asses to NATO was as bad ; it led us in countless messes.>It's a risk in the sense that it'll give opponents to the US leverage for their cause. Well, since you support American dominion, yes. For me, it's a risk because it's putting everyone's economies in absolute shit since America is the nexus of it all. IMO it's a legitimate grudge against it... If America was a superpower with a stabilizing economic and geopolitical influence, this would all be a different story.>Foreign intervention is doubtfully going to stabilize anything there, I don't think anything is going to stabilize that powder-keg of the world.Well, what you're hinting at is it serving for proxy wars. That's possible. But we've seen it getting attacked by the US when it was not a threat ; so at least maybe it won't be bombed to oblivion when it is a significant enough one...>Since the Second World War all we have had is skirmishes. That's not true. By any metric of history, we have had many wars. The French military says the same : since WW2, we haven't had any war, only interventions, and that's why none of them have had to be voted by the parliament. WW2 was one of the deadliest war in human history. It's not a good metric.Look at Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan after revolutions supported by foreign services and invasions. Compare to Iran or Lebanon. That's all that matters here imo. The genes of a Lebanese aren't much different from those of an Irakian...
>>66246246>but its whole narrative and popular support relies on it bettering the lives of Chinese immensely.I guess, but their most idealized leader also has the highest body count of all. >It might become so if Xi develops technologies of social control or transforms it from a corruption machine to some system of elite selection though.I mean, he amended the law regarding how many terms a leader can get "elected", meaning he could get reelected as often as he pleases. He also just filled his party with cronies and got rid of most of his opponents as he rose through the ranks. >Well, I didn't mean they don't wish influence ; everyone lobbies for geopolitical influence ; I meant they don't wish to change the political system of other countries.I guess, but the fact is that most of Africa tends to lean towards the left in most cases so having the PRC funneling money into infrastructure is probably going to encourage far-left sentiments. >Chinese political control in Africa, is it really that bad?Yes, it's bad on the grounds that they're indiscriminately funneling money without needing to get paid back and without having to wonder about how ethical the administration of each country is. >We the French have had influence in Africa for more than a century ; the British too, and Belgium, etc.Yeah, but besides France there isn't a whole lot of that anymore. Now it's mostly just the history and shit. >For now, I think they aren't doing any worse than we are.It smells fishy to me that an Eastern power is having waxing interest in one of the most underdeveloped regions of the world, that's still rich in various natural resources. They're playing the long game.
>>66245868BLTs for lunch at the refugee center.
>>66246315>But everyone selling their asses to NATO was as bad ; it led us in countless messes.I'm not saying NATO's necessarily a perfect way, but I admit I find it preferable to the PRC. >If America was a superpower with a stabilizing economic and geopolitical influence, this would all be a different story.The problem is that no one can really boast of something like that at this point. Everyone's got skeletons in their closets. >But we've seen it getting attacked by the US when it was not a threat ; so at least maybe it won't be bombed to oblivion when it is a significant enough one...I guess, but there are also just local players like Iran and Saudi Arabia who have their own little cold war going. Not to mention how the latter is one of the chief exporters of global terrorism. >By any metric of history, we have had many wars.Yes, but nothing on the scale of the Second World War, thank God. The atom bomb has humbled us humans and since then all we have had is relatively small conflicts. >Look at Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan after revolutions supported by foreign services and invasions.A inter-state conflict/civil war with some spillover at best. >The genes of a Lebanese aren't much different from those of an Irakian...Pan-Arabism is a dying ideal, anon.
>>66246362>I guess, but their most idealized leader also has the highest body count of all. Maoists are in the minority in China. All 'neo-maoists' get systematically wrecked in the Party, so much so they're an underground movement. The current line on Mao is '70% right, 30% wrong', but aside from that, they don't speak about him. The new generation doesn't give a fuck about Mao (thank god for them).>I mean, he amended the law regarding how many terms a leader can get "elected", meaning he could get reelected as often as he pleases. He also just filled his party with cronies and got rid of most of his opponents as he rose through the ranks. Yes, he's trying to strengthen the machine, because he sees unrest as economic growth slows. He's cares about securing his power and the Party. But what *is* the Party? As China develops, it's looking less and less like a good old Marxlen Party and more and more like a weird elite's club where everyone is both a 'state's servant' and the director of a multinational corporation... Who knows what it will become in 15 years?>I guess, but the fact is that most of Africa tends to lean towards the left in most cases so having the PRC funneling money into infrastructure is probably going to encourage far-left sentiments. That's true. The best road for Africa isn't Chinese domination, it's harsh elitist policies of the kind Rwanda is instituting. But as of now, almost no one else is really taking that road, and I'm not sure many other countries even could. If they get an infrastructure, birth control, less humanitarian dependency, etc., it will already be great..>Yes, it's bad on the grounds that they're indiscriminately funneling money without needing to get paid back and without having to wonder about how ethical the administration of each country is. Oh they will ask for payback. They already are. These are investments. As for ethics ; well, how has it worked out until now...
>>66246474>The new generation doesn't give a fuck about Mao (thank god for them).I hope to Jesus that you're right about that. They've got statues of the bastard as tall as buildings over there. >But what *is* the Party?A horrifying thing indeed. >If they get an infrastructure, birth control, less humanitarian dependency, etc., it will already be great..They've got ways to go in that case, but they're taking baby steps in places. Other places not so much, like for instance Eritrea. >Oh they will ask for payback.I know, they want the untapped natural resources that Africa has. All they need is some gratitude and a way inside through that to get it. >As for ethics ; well, how has it worked out until now...Most countries obey certain standards when it comes to which country they're funding. The standards include how stable the regime is, how human rights are respected in the country and so on. I'm not going to say that every country does this, but the PRC doesn't have to or want to at all.
>>66246362>Yeah, but besides France there isn't a whole lot of that anymore. Now it's mostly just the history and shit. True.>It smells fishy to me that an Eastern power is having waxing interest in one of the most underdeveloped regions of the world, that's still rich in various natural resources. They're playing the long game.Their long game is also African development period. They have a shortage of *people*, and it's not going back. Their demography is shit. They will import African by millions, if not billions, in the next century. Plus the sub-Saharan African market could become one of the biggest in the world.>I'm not saying NATO's necessarily a perfect way, but I admit I find it preferable to the PRC. Me too. I hope however that rise of the PRC will allow us more room to move outside of NATO (instead of getting military shipments necessary for the aircraft carrier cancelled when we refuse to partake in the Iraq war in 2003...).>The problem is that no one can really boast of something like that at this point. Everyone's got skeletons in their closets. That's true. You may be right there ; seeing it with a more cynical eyes, America is at least the evil we know and can manage.>I guess, but there are also just local players like Iran and Saudi Arabia who have their own little cold war going. Not to mention how the latter is one of the chief exporters of global terrorism. That's very true, but although Russia is helping Iran, who is helping Saudi Arabia ? France is their first weapon seller *right now*, in their own war against the Shia Houthis.>Yes, but nothing on the scale of the Second World War, thank God. The atom bomb has humbled us humans and since then all we have had is relatively small conflicts. I agree.
>>66246445>A inter-state conflict/civil war with some spillover at best. I really think it's much worse than that... Iran, in the middle of sharp sanctions, or said Lebanon, have done ok. There could have been a road to development in the region instead of that, and I think western powers - not only the US - fuelled it.>Pan-Arabism is a dying ideal, anon.Be it Arab nationalism with an Islamic bend or Islamic parties with a moderate bend, it would be better than what we have now...
>>66239314I don't think we do. The redwood forests get a lot of rain, sure, but they lack the biodiversity to be considered rainforests in the conventional sense, mostly because they're on fire every year.
>>66246534>I hope to Jesus that you're right about that. They've got statues of the bastard as tall as buildings over there. I mean, Soviet Unions had Lenin all other the place and look at how quick they fell... Without a civil war at that. But I won't lie ; from what I've heard, current Chinese leadership is obsessed with the fall of the Soviet Union and will do anything to evade that fate.>They've got ways to go in that case, but they're taking baby steps in places. Other places not so much, like for instance Eritrea. Yes.>Most countries obey certain standards when it comes to which country they're funding. The standards include how stable the regime is, how human rights are respected in the country and so on. I'm not going to say that every country does this, but the PRC doesn't have to or want to at all.That's true but it's debated how useful that is as a method to affect the development of countries. I can't think of a single country in history that has been embargoed out of a shitty regime ; from what I see, it has been pure decay or economic and cultural integration that has slowly eroded most bad dictatorships.
>>66234908If it ain't broken don't fix it.
>>66245868Put them in a room with a goat.
>>66246557>>66246570>America is at least the evil we know and can manage.What scares me is what we can't see. America is far more accountable and approachable than the Bamboo Curtain. And that says a LOT. >That's very true, but although Russia is helping Iran, who is helping Saudi Arabia ?The US, but that's mostly business. The Saudis have their own pet projects of exporting Wahhabism by the tons. >I really think it's much worse than that... Iran, in the middle of sharp sanctions, or said Lebanon, have done ok.Doesn't surprise me that Iran's going through some shit, seeing how autocratic it's been since the coup. Can't say I can make a statement about Lebanon, though. >Be it Arab nationalism with an Islamic bend or Islamic parties with a moderate bend, it would be better than what we have now...>with an Islamic bendWhat kind of Islam?
>>66246615>I mean, Soviet Unions had Lenin all other the place and look at how quick they fell... Without a civil war at that.I think that thanks to Gorbachev stepping down it didn't degenerate into civil war, especially just due to the vast surplus of arms that're in that country. >I can't think of a single country in history that has been embargoed out of a shitty regime Yes, but Africa holds the record. It's in part due to outside influence but also just due to Africa itself. >it has been pure decay or economic and cultural integration that has slowly eroded most bad dictatorships.Yeah, that's kind of a problem when this vast continent of tribes unifies into nations unified under constitutions or some political ideology. It's really easy for them to degenerate into tribalism and just be warlords, because it's easy and enjoyable to be one in most cases.
>>66246651>What scares me is what we can't see. America is far more accountable and approachable than the Bamboo Curtain. And that says a LOT. That's true. But think about the NSA. The NSA was spying on European leaders, openly, recording their conversations. Can we say we have heard of that much from China? Not yet. And the NSA didn't freely reveal that ; it was leaked. What is the extent of outrage against the spying of its allies by the USA? None. Nobody cares. The main French are used to spying themselves, and Germany, although shocked, is still ardently pro-NATO whatever happens. You might be right China rising will get us worse, though.>The US, but that's mostly business. The Saudis have their own pet projects of exporting Wahhabism by the tons. Yes, exactly. Maybe I'm wrong to think it's even possible, but in my mind, the Saudis should have been pressured into, for example, taking care of the refugee crisis which they caused more than any European country ; they didn't welcome a single fucking refugee from a *neighbouring country*. We, the west, treat them like prime geopolitical allies.>What kind of Islam?Any that will appease the masses, allow for cultural calm, without turning into a repression machine. Secular pan-Arabism à la Nasser made the mistake of thinking it could simply get rid of Islam. It backfired. It's not for nothing the Muslim Brotherhood was born in Egypt.
>>66246691>I think that thanks to Gorbachev stepping down it didn't degenerate into civil war, especially just due to the vast surplus of arms that're in that country. Yes, and the Chinese leadership won't 'step down' that way, it made it clear in Tienanmen. But it also shows how quickly a whole population the west think of as 'indoctrinated' can, mythological representations of brain washing put aside, turn against its regime. Although again ; if China reconciled with its national character, and if the Party turned into a transparent 'elite-making machine', I'd be more than ok with it not getting a 'western democracy', although I'd still have other qualms with the regime.>Yes, but Africa holds the record. It's in part due to outside influence but also just due to Africa itself. >it has been pure decay or economic and cultural integration that has slowly eroded most bad dictatorships.Sure, I agree, but that's also why, in a sense, supporting to power the faction which can help the most a country, and helping it set up an infrastructure, that is, intervening, is actually better than just embargoing the shitty regimes and leaving them rot. A problem among many is that when things go wrong, Africans blame it on foreign interventions, and when things go right, they credit it to themselves. It's a natural kind of 'victimary/nationalist' reaction but it's really not helping anyone.
>>66246756About the NSA thing, my concern is that what the PRC has in store would be a whole lot more sinister compared to what the US would do. >Maybe I'm wrong to think it's even possible, but in my mind, the Saudis should have been pressured into, for example, taking care of the refugee crisis which they caused more than any European countryYeah, they've been getting very very cushy with their vast amounts of oil money. The problem is that the US is barely affected and therefore it has no cause to bring it up with the Saudis, and even if it did and went the whole nine yards of embargo and enmity, the Russians would probably just extend a hand. It's shitty. >We, the west, treat them like prime geopolitical allies.Unfortunately. They've checkmated the west on those fronts. >Any that will appease the massesThere tend to be two that have been splitting the entire area for centuries and something that wars are fought over to this day. >Secular pan-Arabism à la Nasser made the mistake of thinking it could simply get rid of Islam.Eh, yes, but it was something that was centralized with Nasser himself. When he died that ideology went with him. He was at his peak, however, one of the most influential leaders of the Arab world. One of the biggest blows his ideology and rhetoric took was the fact that Israel dominated them whenever conflict arose. The Six-Day War caused him to resign, only to get reinstated due to mass outcry. He merged Egypt and Syria for a while, until a coup took place and Syria cut ties with them. And it's theorized that the Yom Kippur War ended in an Arab loss because of his son-in-law.
>>66246808>Yes, and the Chinese leadership won't 'step down' that wayWhich is what concerns me. I'll never be able to accept the PRC because it's just not China. >supporting to power the faction which can help the most a countryIt's really hard to make the right choice in cases like that. It's just warring factions and the ones that proclaim allegiance tend to get more funding and backing. >Africans blame it on foreign interventions, and when things go right, they credit it to themselves.Yeah, that's why I think leaving them be would be the best option. Even humanitarian efforts tend to be difficult to handle long-term. It also just creates a culture of reliance.
>>66246842>About the NSA thing, my concern is that what the PRC has in store would be a whole lot more sinister compared to what the US would do. That's true. Still, as of now, I'm underwhelmed by the outrage around Huawei compared to what we know for certain of the NSA.>Unfortunately. They've checkmated the west on those fronts. Yes, that may be true. Maybe we just can't do much better than we are regarding the Saudis.>There tend to be two that have been splitting the entire area for centuries and something that wars are fought over to this day. Yeah, that dividing factor is certainly not going away soon...>Eh, yes, but it was something that was centralized with Nasser himself. When he died that ideology went with him. He was at his peak, however, one of the most influential leaders of the Arab world. One of the biggest blows his ideology and rhetoric took was the fact that Israel dominated them whenever conflict arose. The Six-Day War caused him to resign, only to get reinstated due to mass outcry. He merged Egypt and Syria for a while, until a coup took place and Syria cut ties with them. And it's theorized that the Yom Kippur War ended in an Arab loss because of his son-in-law.(*I mean, ofc, I should've said 'getting rid of political Islam, of Islam's cultural influence', etc.)I agree much more than Islam caused the fall of Nasser. Still, maybe if we had had a political recipe that didn't essentially divide North Africa into the 'Nasserite/socialist side' (in Algeria it would be the FNL) and the 'Muslim Brotherhood-like side' (and in Algeria, say, the Islamic Salvation Front), it would have been an immense step forward. Although I'm speaking a bit fast here ; isn't this what Erdogan was praised has having achieved, only to fuck up, including by becoming more religious than was expected?
>>66235128The Picts are pretty much just indians so yes.
>>66241681>Yes, all 10 of them.Anon, there were hundreds of millions of natives living in America precolombia. Smallbox, other diseases, and warfare straight up killed the vast, vast majority of them, to the point where the Americas became almost one big, massive ghost town because of it.
>>66246905>Which is what concerns me. I'll never be able to accept the PRC because it's just not China. I get that. Sadly I'm not sure a total elimination of the CCP's hold on the PRC would be possible without not only a slowing economic growth but a big crisis and political violence. That's why I place my hopes rather on it changing beyond recognition. But I get how unsatisfactory that is.>It's really hard to make the right choice in cases like that. It's just warring factions and the ones that proclaim allegiance tend to get more funding and backing. Yes, that's true. I agree there. You can really only make that choice once they've risen to power and proven themselves, which does defeat the purpose. Take Rwanda again ; who would've known Kagame, the faction which he represented having been as bloodthirsty as the Mille Collines guys, would end up actually doing an incredible job once in power?>Yeah, that's why I think leaving them be would be the best option. Even humanitarian efforts tend to be difficult to handle long-term. It also just creates a culture of reliance.Yeah I get that too. From an egoistic standpoint, that also seems good for Europeans and the US. Although keep in mind a country like Poland receives from the EU ten times the aids any African countries receive ; but that's also because Poland is actually a good investment. Still, if Africa becomes the cradle of a never ending demographic crisis in the next century, one even harsher than the current, whatever we do, we will be blamed.
>>66246934*and I should've said the fall of Nasserism, I forgot he died in power even-though you mentioned it.Anyway, that makes me realize it's time for me to go to sleep. It was an interesting conversation, thx!
>>66240511She thought she could gain an inexhaustible supply of votes forever and ever through both Syrians, and labeling anyone voting against the great savior of all Syrians and refugees is racist.
>>66239095That's exactly how I feel anon. At least the audiobooks are easier to get through than reading 10 Elayne chapters in a row.
>>66247016read it again
>>66234926Nah, they do Scotland sometimes too
>>66245868Governments already do as it's easier to get asylum if you can prove that you belong to a religious minority. Usually this involves them having to answer questions that concern their beliefs and rites and see if they get them right or not.
>>66246377And if they're vegetarian?
>>66240466I think the problem with Bioshock is that all this violates Show Don't Tell. It's much more interesting to be around during the fall than after the fall.
>>66248739>>66248739Barring the occasional retarded law pushed through by a commie or protestant which invariably get killed by the Supreme Court, the United States has the least retarded and oppressive laws of any western nation.
>>66234908I want more Fantasy Westerns but it's one of the rarest genres to exist.
>>66236890>Based unironic Kangz poster
>>66248362Britain is England, Scotland, and Wales.
>>66235232>At least Japan occasionally acknowledges sex slavery in a non-negative light.they don't even do that in real life with comfort women, do you have a concrete example in mind or what?
>>66235128>the only übermensch, primitive and homicidal whaitu man kills PoC and mutts with abandon and it's partrayed as a good thing, pretty much muh heritage, the settingIt's very American in spirit.
>>66237980> European aren't hotblooded enoughAre you familiar with France ?
>>66248690Show don't tell isn't actually very useful. The intent behind it is good, I suppose, but idiots misunderstand what it actually means and even when it's applied as intended there are many, MANY, exceptions where it simply doesn't apply or your story would be improved by simply telling rather than showing.For example, if your writing a book and one of your characters is tired, you could go off on a tangent and describe how their feeling in that very moment and how their eyelids feel heavy and how it's difficult to move and all that. Or you could just write:>Matt felt tired and longed for his bed.There are cases where you'd rather do the former, sure. But most of the time, the latter is the better option.
>>66248868This is sadly true. Except for things like education, sane spending, taxes, gun control, corporate capture, medical care etc For those, we Americans are noticeably worse at these things than most. Consistently respecting the rights of citizens isn't so good here in the USA, but it's ridiculously better than elsewhere. Feels bad man.
>>66235128Good honest frontiersmen vs degenerate oil barons and their stooges. Conan is very American.
>>66234908exactly how it should be.
>>66241963If you have the power to do so, wouldn't it be a bit altruistic of you to not?
>>66248574Fucking herbivores can go live with the goatfuckers, we don't want them either.
>>66250333>taxesBarring some bizarre tax cuts, the strangest thing about American taxes is how the NRA will calculate your taxes, then tell you to calculate it and fill out the forms yourself, and then send it in so they can look it over. Over here the tax forms come pre-filled and you theoretically don't have to do anything at all with them other than approve them unless you want to make changes.
>>66250708>IRSFtfy. Otherwise, you're spot on. The conservative party has been in power here for the last 16 years. They keep cutting funding for the government tax gatherers so they only have the manpower and funding to collect from the poor. The wealthy can actually get away with not paying taxes. Now Trump has pushed a massive tax cut for corporations, so that money will be sucked out of the poor. In America, that's anyone making netting less than ~70K annually. My country is full of stupid people who can't basic math. At least they're civil, polite and honest. Oh wait. Dammit.
>>66250774>>IRSYeah, sorry bout that. I can't keep track of all your government acronyms.
>>66241557>Get laid by psycho cunt in law>Superior finds out>No he raped me!>Go to jailGreat plan
>>66234908Every thread you ever start is just more of the stupid shit you eat everyday.Broad, erroneous blanket statement meant for you to be all edgy and cool.Stop lickin yr own asshole long enough to read one or two things before you open your mouth to shit so much.
>>66234908That's why I like Eastern European fantasy.The running theme is usually "you guys ALL suck and I just have to cope with your bullshit".
>>66234908Damn straight, if we had it our way, the entire world would be America with different coats of paint.
>>66250333Gun based death is lower now, per capita, than it's been in the entire time we've been tracking the numbers. Gun control is not a problem. Mainstream news spending weeks glorifying killers is. But that is a worldwide problem not just an American one.
>>66238233I lost count of the times GWB held photo ops for the reporters to watch him "clearing brush" on his Texas ranch that his family has lived on for YEARS since moving there from New England in the 1960s.
>>66252090It isn't already? Somehow the whole world cares about your politics and your cultural war.
>>66236222She had no legitimate course to be suspicious.Her own collasal ignorance isn't an excuse for depriving a citizen of freedom.
>>66252243It's glorious listening to the plebs complain about oppressive American culture everywhere.
>>66236371>Chances are him being swole wasn't the only reason steroid use was suspectedSource: Your cavernous rectum.Don't you have a cop's boot to lick or something?
>>66249304Are the yellow-shirts still chimping out? I stopped paying attention a while ago.
>>66249013Slave Harem in the Labyrinth of the Otherworld. The protagonist's main goal is to buy a slave and fuck her. He does.
>>66252243Only so much in that they’re worried about having to fend for themselves. Pre WW1 the average American wanted nothing to do with foreign affairs and the country’s army was smaller than Bulgaria.But the Imperial Powers that were got together with American industrialists and politicians and decided that they could have a giant mercenary police force that would let them live comfortable middle class lives while the mutts tromped around their former colonies playing chess with Ivan.Every brainwashed Neocon American Redneck you despise, every pushy, loud mouthed jingoist you wish would go away and worry about their own affair a result of this deal.
>>66252712What's with the fucking obsession with sex slavery these days. Two active threads not enough?
>>66250642Not according to Rand.
>>66252299Didn't you know? When you're a cop, ignorance of the law IS an excuse.
>>66239338>it'd be nice to see them use other eras from their history for fantasySteampunk is clearly a mythologization of the early industrial era, and could be considered a form of fantasy. And any fantasy which brings in "gunslingers" is mythologizing the old west.
>>66236389>I get tired of how many people would rather intentionally misunderstand and misconstrue whatever their opponent's argument isThe problem is worse than you realize, because it's not intentional. Haidt's research on Moral Foundations Theory indicates that a significant chunk of the population is simply incapable of understanding their opponent's arguments.
>>66250831No worries, we can't keep track of them either.>>66252130IIRC gun deaths are significantly higher here than in other developed countries, which isn't entirely surprising since our gun laws are so lax but still bears scrutinizing to see if we should be more in line with other developed countries. Also, while I definitely agree that media coverage is part of the problem, I think it's a bit reductive to ignore our healthcare issues as well.
>>66252299Sweden abolished the metaphysical, counter-revolutionary, anglo-saxon idea of rule of law already by the 1920's and replaced it with the much more rational principle of right by might. For example, when we fairly recently realized that our practice of having the government appoint every judge in the country went against international conventions and agreements we decided that the best solution was to have the government instead appoint a committee that would in turn appoint the judges.
>>66256292The idea that Sweden has not had rule of law since the 1920s is obviously not in line with reality.
>>66235128>takes whatever fucking lore he wants from whatever cultures history he wants>mashes them all together to create his setting>gives no fucks if any of it makes sense, just tells stories>like 90% of the names in his setting are just names from history with 1 or 2 letters changedConan is THE most American setting
>>66237204ill take Ptolemy for 500 Alex
>>66246315>It's not a good metric.Why, because you say so?The human race is capable of industrial scale slaughter. Keeping war deaths to pre-industrial numbers is pretty fantastic.
>>66252903The American military is a weird thing. It's hugely bloated, and intentionally ineffective, but it also serves as a socially accepted right wing version of well-fare.
>>66256395Not in the way that it's conventionally meant in the rest of the world. Largely due to the influence of Axel Hägerström the prevailing legal theory in Sweden during the 20th century was that the government defined what was right and stood above the law. It's pretty much only since we joined the EU that our legal system have had to start adjusting to the rest of the rest of the world.Interestingly enough, Hägerström's philosophical texts were also very popular and influential in countries such as Germany, Italy and Japan at the time.
>>66256292>>66256395That's how the law works. What's legal is whatever you can get away with.
>>66256566>the government defined what was right and stood above the lawHow horrifying.
>>66256606It's also not rule of law, which is the principle that there are certain rights and laws that stand above even the government.
>>66256566If this understanding of reality was accurate it should be easy for you to describe many instances of the Swedish government acting outside the bounds of the law.
>>66256767If it was accurate, it would be impossible, since by it's definition the whatever the government does is by definition inside the law.
>>66237204Ptolemaic Dynasty :)Cleopatra was Greek
>>66256767Yeah, sure. As already said, Sweden did not, and arguably still doesn't, follow international agreements on how judges were to be appointed. According to the statutes of the UN, at least half of all judges should be appointed by the already existing judges. In Sweden the government used to appoint all of them directly. These days, the Swedish government still appoints them though indirectly through a committee appointed by the government.In the 70's the court's ability to try whether new laws went against the constitution was removed. Many years later it was reinstated but with the caveat that for a court to be able to try a new law, it had "to be obvious that it went against the constitution" beforehand. That caveat was recently removed by the previous right-wing administration however.However, the government acts under the assumption that no court will ever repeal one of their laws such as shown recently with "Gymnasielagen" (something like "the High School Law" in English) which says that even if a supposed refugee has been denied asylum they are still allowed to stay as long as they study. This law has not only been heavily criticized for directly contradicting several other laws but for also placing the people it affects in an awful position where they are effectively homeless because no agency has any responsibility for them while they study here.
>>66257006This detail about the Swedish justice system seems largely irrelevant. Someone has to appoint the judges and in a reasonable country it might as well be the government.How many times was there good reason for the the courts to try laws against the constitution? Whether they have or lack the power to do is irrelevant if the laws are always in line with the constitution. This is not uncommon in the Nordic states. For example in Finland there is no constitutional court, but a parliamentary committee decides if a proposed law contradicts the constitution.Is thie Gymnasielagen in contradiction with the constitution? While contradicting other laws is of course bad, it frankly sounds like this law will not be relevant enough to actually ever face such contradictions in practice. The shitholes most asylum seekers come from are considered so dangerous it would be inhuman for the asylum seekers to be returned there by force.
>>66257259>Someone has to appoint the judges and in a reasonable country it might as well be the government.The government can appoint half of the judges if it wishes, according to international agreements. Not all of them. This is because courts are supposed to be independent and act independently of the government.>How many times was there good reason for the the courts to try laws against the constitution?We don't know since they weren't allowed to try it to begin with.>This is not uncommon in the Nordic states.Yeah, because Hägerström was pretty influential in the neighbouring countries as well.>Is thie Gymnasielagen in contradiction with the constitution?Probably. Two out of four migration courts rejected it outright and the Migration Agency decided to pause all matters concerned by it because of legal uncertainty surrounding it.
>>66254486Gun deaths are also counted differently in other countries. Suicide by gun being counted as deaths in America as others do not. Same with all crime stats
>>66254486>IIRC gun deaths are significantly higher here than in other developed countries, which isn't entirely surprising since our gun laws are so lax but still bears scrutinizing to see if we should be more in line with other developed countries.You mean like Switzerland, which has almost zero violent crime despite a ~50% firearm ownership rate? Could it be that America has a higher rate of violence because, unlike Switzerland we don't have a culturally homogeneous population. Could it be that an unusually high proportion of the violent crimes here are committed by people who don't belong to the cultures one sees in other developed nations? Could it also be that leftists and other pro-fascist groups regularly conflate suicides involving a firearm with murders involving a firearm in order to push their agenda?And could it be that since people have been murdering each other for millenia before the invention of gunpowder that firearms are not the issue at all? That possibly the issue is humans are just violent, clever monkeys in shoes?