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Is he the greatest example of how to do a cleric?
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>>65716711
Damn, that's a good choice.
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>>65716711
It depends on how powerful gods are in your setting - they are weak local ones, then yes that is kinda decent.
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>>65716711
Priest of Sigmar from WHFB
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>>65716924
I haven't watched the film in a while, but I don't remember Moses hammering a guy's head open.
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>>65716936
I mean, he does fuck up that Egyptian foreman, doesn't he?
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>>65716931
Are you allowed to be a cleric when people look to you as a living god?
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>>65716931
Alexander was more of a Cavalier
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>>65717723
According to the bible, Moses outright killed him and buried the body. Word got around and that's when Moses fled.
The movie made it more public because pacing, but made it accidental because disne-DreamWorks wanted a more kid friendly movie
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>>65716931
counts more as a demigod with reality warping powers, given they claim descendancy from Heracles and in turn Zeus. Or, I suppose, a taveren from wheel of time.

Regardless, he works quite well as a very high level fighter or similar martial class.
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>>65716711
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>>65717723
There was also that one time when he unleashed an Angel of Death straight of the Cthulhu Mythos to suck out the souls of a good portion of the people in one of the world's largest nations of the time.
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>>65718066
Though to be fair, a few people being literally spirited away and just not waking up is a bit more kid friendly than someone having his skull cracked open.
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>>65718066
Eh, he warned them.
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>>65716711
A god fearing leader having to drag around a bunch of winers? Seems about right.
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>>65718110
>Being led out of slavery and all is nice, but check out this sweet golden calf!
With Jews, you lose
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>>65718124
>Jews
>Enslaved
Ya, good joke.
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>>65718066
No Angel of Death involved. Direct intervention of God. To quote the Haggadah, "I will pass through the land of Egypt - I, myself and not an angel. I will slay every firstborn - I, myself and not a seraph. I will execute judgement against the gods of Egypt, - I, myself and not a messenger. I and no other."
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>>65716889
While I get your point, the Abrahamic, especially the Hebrew version, is as far as you could get from a weak local one
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>>65718146
Yep, it is, not to say there weren't any jew slaves, but the amount of them described in the old testament would have been roughly equal to the population of the entirety of Egypt at the time. Especially if you're one of the retarded that believe that Hebrews built the pyramid, there is fuck all evidence that occurred.
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>>65716711
no
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>>65718321
To be fair, the OT doesn't even mention the pyramids. It's Prince of Egypt that made that up, probably for dramatic effect. Because when you think "grueling slavery", you think nibba's dragging around giant rocks. Which makes you think of building giant monuments.
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>>65718321
Heck we know that people actually built pyramid were well paid workers, if anything it was a honor to get such a job, which would probably be working in opposite way people who claim Mosis story was true want.
>>65718220
And are you sure? Old testment puts god at kinda low power, if anything if you believe in all powerful god, lovecrafts works give a much better image for us how that could loook like.
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>>65716711
no, god litteraly interacting with the PC is weaksauce
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>>65718220
>needs to decanonize everyone else to gain followers
>powerful
Monotheism has good PR and caters to the intellectual lowest common denominator. Without these it is weak and lazy.
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>OT
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>>65718409
>>Old testament puts god at kinda low power
>Creates world
>Floods world
>Strikes down Babel by
>Strikes down Egypt with plagues
>Instantly kills individuals and entire armies
>Inflicts and heals various diseases constantly

In what fucking universe is the old testament God weak?

>inb4 Muh iron chariots
The he in that verse refers to Judah, not YHWH.
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>>65718409
>Old testment puts god at kinda low power
He did wipe Sodom and Gomorrah right off the face of the Earth. Also Noah's flood. There's also the plagues in Egypt.
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>>65718220
*Cough* Iron chariots *cough*
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>>65719122
His followers were defeated by Iron Chariots. He Himself basically said 'And this, class, is why you listen to Me when I am speaking' before beating the Iron Chariots himself with no difficulty.
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>>65718389
>It's Prince of Egypt that made that up
Prince of Egypt never once displays Jews building pyramids. The pyramids were built a thousand years before the Jews were even allegedly in Egypt.
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>>65719059
He creates worlds slower then most gods from other faiths, was based on combinaton of other gods, changed gender once and was afraid of people building a tall tower.
And flooding the world part actually makes him weaker then other gods - because he needed someone to save the animals while in similar legend in scandinavia the gods just made new animals.
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>>65716711
>be Mwindo
>faced with literally any problem
>call down lightning from the heavens
>cast Resurrection on everyone once they've calmed down
I'm not sure how you could be more Cleric than that.
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>>65719100
I point to you at Aztec mythology where the killed the world 5 time over and then made humans from bodies of the dead once the sky snake was tired of others bullshit.
Also fuck Old testament for demonizing snakes, everyone else agree they were awesome cute and useful.
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>>65716711
Is he?

At no point is Moses really in control of anything. He doesn't understand what he's doing. God tells him "Go here, now throw your staff down" and he's like "What? My staff? You mean like this? HOLY SHIT MY STAFF IS A SNAKE."

A Cleric, on some level, knows what he's doing. A protagonist who has a completely uncontrollable power isn't interesting, because he's not really doing anything, he's a helpless observer!

The whole point of the movie is that God's giving directions, Moses is just driving. Every time Moses tries to do something on his own, he fails.
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>>65719216
Well fuck, I now want to play a character like that - kill someone then bring them back to tell them to calm the fuck down.
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>>65719217
Sounds like we got a snake here boys.
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>>65719262
No, just someone who doesn't cut of boys penises for fun.
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>>65719182
>He creates worlds slower then most gods from other faiths,
No he doesn't, most creation myths don't specify a time frame

>was based on combinaton of other gods
>changed gender once
So?

>was afraid of people building a tall tower.
There was no fear, man became overly proud so God humbled them. Most Gods perform such acts in their mythologies

>legend in scandinavia the gods just made new animals.
Legend in Scandinavia the Gods also die, so those scrubs should keep their mouth shut
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>>65719182
You understand behind those tails is a lesson, right? A lot of bible stories are lessons for people to better themselves and learn from the past

>takes 7 days to build universe
Good things take time to build.
>tower
Was a interesting story on why people speak different languages and also to tell you that you don't force your way into heaven. You'll get their through him.
>saved the animals from a blood
There are a variety of lessons in their like respect animals, faith will see you through safety and about respecting God's plan, ect ,ect.

The stories in the bible are lessons for you to become a better person and not just wild fantasies.
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>>65719231
>Every time Moses tries to do something on his own, he fails.
I dunno, I'm pretty sure he won when the Egyptian priests confronted him over who was the more powerful god (and the Egyptian Gods are no pushovers, especially when they have goddesses like Sekhmet who makes murder-happy Angron from 40k look like little baby in the killing department) on their roster).
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>>65719296
Yea, that's really fucking outdated but the rabies are the literal definition of a boomer.
>t. jew
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>>65719343
>The stories in the bible are lessons for you to become a better person and not just wild fantasies.
Yes everyone knows the best way to become a better person is by being humble, praying often, and genociding the Amelekites.
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>>65719217
>everyone else agree
No snakes are a pretty contentious issue across most mythologies.

India liked them so naturally the Persians hated them
Greeks liked them for a while until a power shift happened and their cult got crushed
Egyptians have both helpful guardians but also the world destroying Apophis
Quetzalcoatl chilled out eventually to be cool, but him and Tezcatlipoca still destroyed the world 4 times.
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>>65719343
That is exactly same shit that is behind every mythology ever concived.
And in Baltic mythology which is closet to me by virtue of blood gives leasson of being a good person without flooding the world, so by the virtue it's better.
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>>65719305
>Legend in Scandinavia the Gods also die, so those scrubs should keep their mouth shut
Abrahamic faiths most notable story is about their god dying, while shouting "Why did you abandon me father!".
If anything people should read their holy text once in a while and realize a good update is needed.
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>>65719355
Yes, he won because God backed him up and made his staff eat their snakes. If he hadn't had a omnipotent source of divine power backing him up, he'd be screwed.
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>>65719343
As I recall the way most mainline churches square the 'but 7 days' circle is saying "a day for God =! a day for humans, so the 7 days is more for us to make sense of how it happened." Which makes sense because having an all-powerful creator living on the same day-night cycle as some relatively random 3rd planet from a star near the edge of its host galaxy sounds kind of ridiculous when you think about it.
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>>65719370
Ya, it's sad, since Jews are most advanced out of the Abrahamic religions - they kinda reached the point where most of them are "religous" in name only, no real faith is about, only traditions
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>>65719511
*tips fedora* m'neckbeard
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>>65719541
Pretty much. Most don't keep kosher except on holidays. Hell, I was the first in my family to not have my son's brit. I made sure to let the rabbi know that in a relatively threatening manner.
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>>65719535
Hell, until day 4 there wasn't even a sun or moon to keep track of days with. And somehow light came before stars or anything else was created, so clearly we're trying and failing to describe some extradimensional entity beyond the comprehension of mortals who works on scales and via mechanics we cannot even begin to fathom.
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>>65719645
Ya, in city I live in there is a decent jew population and I talk with them a lot, it seems most are closer to atheist mindset then lots of people like to admit.
But then again, in most places where people are educated that is the case - where I live catholics usually are catholics in name only, heck even priests have families.
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Is he the greatest example of how to do a Vengeance Paladin?
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>>65719684
Of course it does not excuse the believe in God. God is moral, kind and orderly. He created such a universe and by being those ideals, you are being what God wants you to be.

However, human traditions naturally fade. That' a good thing with the rise of technology.
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>>65719216
Red is /tg/ new waifu or what? I've seen plenty of anon posting pics from her vids.
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>>65719854
She makes pretty decent videos on mythology and frankly it's great if you want to get some ideas for campaigns or when writting your own mythos - basically do what tolkien did - take a region you like, take some stuff from mythology you like and go from there.
Copy his method instead of his creation.
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>>65719746
>God is moral, kind and orderly
Yes, the fucker who committed global genocide, permits evil's existence and sends you off to be tortured without end if you don't fellate him with worship sure is a good guy.
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>>65719684
>heck even priests have families.
Those are probably 'permanent deacons', who get a pass on the whole marriage thing as long as they tied the knot before the man was ordained (and don't intend to advance up the ranks of the priesthood), Protestant ministers/Anglican clergymen who converted over to Catholicism, or received special dispensation from the church (although that one needs the go-ahead from the Pope, so it's not too likely).

The other option is the priests were defrocked (as punishment or by request of the preiest), but since you're still calling them "priests" I'd assume they're still allowed to wear clerical vestments, yeah?
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>>65719964
He is when He decides what is good and what is not. If you disagree, you’re the wicked one. By, like, definition.

>Enlightenment moralizing is fucking obscene, I swear.
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>>65720041
Mostly that ya, higher ups kinda no longer care, since I met some priests with families and few that clearly are gay and live together.
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>>65720056
YHVH is a selfish, evil god. Individual humans can be morally superior to Him quite easily.
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>>65719626
*tips choir boy*
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>>65719692
>has no magical ability
>is a bastard cop
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SINCE YOU REFUSE TO FREE MY PEOPLE
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>>65720577
He does have Magical ability, he just vehemently denies it exists. He's the favored champion of the Summoning Dark, who chose him precisely because he's a bastard cop with a rigid sense of duty. He gets the job done, and keeps his principles, but doesn't give a shit about Honor or Command when it goes in the face of what he knows is right.
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>>65716711
No. Not even close.
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>>65719964
>Global genocide
That's a contradiction

>Permits evil's existence
And if evil were not allowed to exist, you'd whine about an overly controlling dictator. Hell, Richard Dawkins ALREADY complains about the "Celestial Dictator"

>and sends you off
Yeah, that's gotta be a no from me dawg
>to be tortured
Pick the Catholic or Orthodox view, whichever you prefer mostly because the two are eachother's opposites so you cannot at the same time maintain that both are unreasonably cruel
>if you don't fellate him with worship
I redirect you to my "sends you off" comment
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>>65720971
Friend hell is concept in both Catholic and Orthofox faiths - I can go and ask one in person if you want, so they confirm it.
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>>65719964
>Tip
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>>65720971
>not denying genocide
>not even trying to defend the presence of evil
>trying to use doctrine as a smokescreen so that his tyrant doesn't get blamed for eternal pain and suffering
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>>65720994
Yes. When I tell you to pick between two views of a certain concept, it means both views acknowledge that concept. This is basic logic. Go to that person and ask him to explain hell as described in the cathechisms, then hell as the orthodox believe in it.

>>65721073
>not denying genocide
Global flooding is not genocide as it does not target a deliberate group (unless you consider all life a deliberate group). The Medianites, now that was a genocide *sip* but I'm not going to defend the degenerates that were given 40 years to unfuck themselves.

>not even trying to defend the presence of evil
Didn't I already explain that this comes at the cost of free will? Whether or not this is strictly "better" I can't answer because that would require me to see all alternate realities with 100% accuracy and with complete certainity determine what will-to-evil balance is the best.

>trying to use doctrine as a smokescreen so that his tyrant doesn't get blamed for eternal pain and suffering
Yes, because if doctrine says something different it's actually not saying something different.
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>>65719305
>There was no fear
There was, though. He was concerned that men would "become as God's" themselves and thus scrambled their languages.
>>65719343
>Good things take time to build.
Not for an omnipotent being that can simply will things into being. Try again.
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>>65721156
Global Flood was targeted at very deliberate group - a group of misbehaving jews. And the flood was never local, since it was described as local flood ever since myth was first created by the people of Shumer.
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>>65719343
What's the lesson in "If you rape a woman, you can buy her off her daddy for 50 shekels of silver (unless she's already spoken for, in which case you're BOTH to be killed)", exactly?
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>>65719059
>Strikes down Babel by
Clever
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>>65719387
Don't forget that accepting the surrender of people god told you to genocide instead of putting every man, woman, and child to the sword will make the man upstairs VERY angry.
>>65719626
>I don't have a counterargument, so I'll just post le ebin fedora maymay
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>>65721156
>using the weak, "but my all-powerful, all-knowing sky-daddy can't both wipe out evil and preserve free will!" cop-out
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>>65719854
She's an ace though so only platonic cuddles for you
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>>65718409
>The guy who supposedly created the entire world on his own
>Brings about a flood covering the entire world
>Brings the death of all the firstborn in Egypt in just one night
>The plagues in general
I would rather say that the Hebrew God has some inconsistent power levels, sometimes they are really realitry warping and sometimes they seem awfully mundane
It's also handy to keep in mind that He also decided to fuck over the Israelites, because they wouldn't listen
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>>65721289
>become as God's
Who are you quoting?
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>>65721589
I don't want cuddles from an asexual/lesbian.
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>>65722371
Old testament is my best bet. Not that anon however
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>>65722371
Nier Automata
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>>65722371
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>>65716889
>brings a famine to every land save the one it reigns over
Seems plenty powerful to me.
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>>65719231
This. I would stay Moses as a mid level favored soul, if not just an aristocrat or expert with divine favor.
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>>65722424
Don't be grumpy.
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>>65718339
Is that the guy who saved the galaxy only using 2 blasters?
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>>65721566
Most people don't think omnipotence includes the ability to do the logically impossible. If you're one of the few who does think that omnipotence includes the logically impossible, all debate ends because logic literally stops mattering.
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>>65719854
She’s way, way too PC and jumping in the social politics bandwagon so sorta leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

>>65721589
Don’t make me post her porn anon.
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>>65718110
>winers
Whiners***
FTFY.
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>>65723012
Wow, you somehow managed to make an even weaker argument. Though I guess "God's rules don't have to be consistent or follow any sort of logic because wibbly-wobbly higher dimensional nonsense" would explain why eating lobster and wearing mixed fabrics carry the death penalty by OT law.
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>>65723012
So, are you saying he's not actually omnipotent, or that he's selectively not omnipotent due to some set of rules that gods must operate under?
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>>65723345
Yes, because discussing the definition of omnipotence means that omnipotence isn't omnipotence, right? I gave two possible definitions with two possible options.
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>>65722870
But it doesn't since no one in Europe felt it's effects, not did anyone in Africa for that matter.
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>>65723419
Definitions you invented out of nowhere based on nothing don't mean shit, dude.
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>>65723419
So, "shut up and stop trying to apply logic, because God operates off of some divine troll logic that just APPEARS illogical and inconsistent to our feeble mortal minds."
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>>65723510
>Definitions you invented out of nowhere
The discussion about what omnipotent even entails has been ongoing since the middle ages but ok retard.

>>65723549
Yeah, that's one of the two options. The other is that omnipotence can't create logically inconsistent things like square circles.
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>>65723586
>Can will an entire universe into being ex nihilo with the words "Let there be"
>Can't make square circles if he so chose
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>>65723586
I think I already know the answer to this, but I'll ask anyway.
"Being told to shut the fuck up, accept that what this old book says is true, and not think too hard about things doesn't raise massive red flags because...?"
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>>65716711

>piss your god off so bad he makes it take 40 years to travel what should have taken a few days

No, probably not
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>>65723769
How does this relate to the question of omnipotence? A question that would even come up when discussing a non-denominational, deistic creator?
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>>65723781
Not saying that I believe the Exodus shit even happened (in fact, there's no shortage of evidence to suggest that it didn't and that Moses wasn't even a real person), but in Hebrew mythology, using the number 40 in relation to a period of time was basically just a shorthand for "a long time" (usually relating to times of trial and tribulation)
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>>65723860
What reason is there to assume that an omnipotent being has any need to follow "logically consistent" rules such as not making square circles, exactly?
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>>65723962
Can you read? Did I not already tell you that this was one of the possible definitions of omnipotence? Do you need a fucking flowchart?
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>>65723986
You're just bad at making coherent arguments, clearly.
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>>65723042
I'm pretty curious now, what porn???
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>>65724240
Seconded. What porn?
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>play a cleric with a new group
>give sermons to npcs in town
>ask other players to join prayers before battles and missions
>dm pulls me aside after second session and tells me to stop because I was making the atheist players uncomfortable
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>>65724435
Sounds odd. I am atheist and run and allow clerics all the time, granted I do make so prayer is less prayer and more chat with the gods or one of their administration.
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>>65724435
>>65724478
I too can't understand what problems there can be. After all the gods definitely exist in the game world. And sometimes even can come down and punch you in the face.
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>>65724588
That is how I run my gods - This is why that time one player made character who worshiped God when I said no, a local god of storm walked down form his cloud and stomped on them.
Since my gods don't really require faith, they require sacrifices and resources.
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>>65722975
I doubt that an asexual/lesbian woman would like to cuddle with a man, unless this man were her father or something like that.
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>>65719534
Oh so a cleric needed his god to empower him? Wow, almost like thats what a cleric does. Also, after plague 3 or 4, the Egyptian gods were unable to do the same.
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>>65719511
He literally got resurrected in three days
The norse gods stay dead
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>>65719343
I for one prefer the japanese interpretation of the tower of bablyon where the tower was built by a priestess who really loved God and wanted to be with Him in heaven, and God said "fuck off you mad bint"
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>>65731261
*blocks your path*



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