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OSR general!

>Trove: jk, use Bytee's
http://pastebin.com/raw/QWyBuJxd

>Tools & Resources:
http://pastebin.com/raw/KKeE3etp
>Unvetted Link Farm:
http://pastebin.com/raw/ZwUBVq8L

>Previous threads:
>>64924686
>>64939901
>>64951746
>>64965402
>>64976785
>>64990756
>>65005975
>>65018876
>>65034464
>>65049170
>>65063969
>>65082499
>>65099796
>>65119381

TQ: what was Pundit smoking when TSR cooked up lesser divination?
>>
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How do I design a good game?
>>
>>65137976
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Strange_mood#Frequency
>>
>>65137976
Give in to the anime
>>
Are you finally ready to run your game, /osrg/?
>>
>>65138523

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItM8J1o_ZnM
>>
>>65138523
Just... one more subsystem to hack...
>>
>>65138628
>>
>>65138250
What's their morale like? Do we have to fight? How much to get the Gnolls to retile my lordly bathroom?
>>
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How does /osrg/ feel about my race-and-class races? I'd love some feedback on these, or if you have any suggestions for new additions.
>>
>>65139571
What system is it in? Most stuff doesn't seem compatible with anything I know.
>>
>>65139689
It's more or less systemless- How could you not be able to convert it? It's pretty generic quasiD&D stats and mechanics.
>>
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What's this gay shit with linking the last dozen threads? Anyone who cares can look in the archive, and I'm pretty sure that outside the faggot who started doing this nobody needed or wanted it.

Also, the OP question is boring and pointless, so doubly go fuck yourself.
>>
>>65139823
I mean, let's take B/X.
>Ovis
Converts pretty easy, but probably too strong.
>Humans
Worse than normal humans, and first aid is meaningless.
>Elves
Sharp Hearing is meaningless, the innate magic thing doesn't really work, worse than normal elves.
>Felines
Converts okayish until you look at the gold bit, which just doesn't make sense.
>Dwarves
The AC thing doesn't convert at all. They're also brokenly strong, to the point where I think you could say it doesn't convert.
>Ophida
Converts okay I guess, but pretty strong.
>Og
Stealth checks doesn't convert. Variable damage die is an optional rule and so doesn't necessarily convert.
>Gnomes
See above.
>Gastropods
Initiative doesn't work.
Grappling isn't a thing like that.
>>
Some other Anon posted this excellent alternative to the LBB OD&D Thief class that captures a lot of the quasi-supernatural intent behind the class' abilities by giving them a spell-like progression similar to Clerics and Magic-users.

This got me thinking about doing the same for Fighters, but instead of Skills they have Techniques. So far I have a Cleaving-like ability that fills in for the normal one attack per Hit Die against weaker opponents rule (providing a more smooth scale for fighters to multiple attacks against enemies higher than just 1HD), as well as Natural 20s giving double-damage criticals.

What are some other iconic abilities of fighters from past editions that might work as optional techniques selected by the player? Deflect Arrows?
>>
>>65139571
>race-and-class
Objectively the inferior choice
>>
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>>65140084
Oh, another Technique I'm going to include is a variation of the Superhero ability from Chainmail sense invisible or hidden creatures within 30'. This seems like a quasi-supernatural sort of danger sense that a high-level fighter would develop around 7th level, so probably a 4th Level Technique if I were to use the same Skill progression as the Thief in that PDF.
>>
>>65140084
>Fighters
>a spell-like progression similar to Clerics and Magic-users.
How exactly is this going to work? And how will it not be dissociated?

>permanent, not memorized, and may be used without limit!
Oh. Well okay, proceed.

But still, >>builds
>>
>>65140084
Something about cleaving limbs clean off, especially against hydras and such.
Maybe the right to challenge someone to one on one combat somehow? I'm thinking Illiad style.

Really I don't see why something like this is needed though. Doesn't need to be codified IMO, just have the referee determine if/when they can do stuff and delet thief.
>>
>>65140165
>builds
Yes, I have the same concern, trust me. Builds are one of the main things I absolutely despite about 3.P, but I think adding a few optional rules that the game has collected back in under the auspices of being fighter-only and optionally selected could work.

I think the main thing to watch out for is making obvious trap options and meaningless bonuses. Ideally, each ability should add something into the game system that doesn't normally exist (e.g. Cleave giving multiple attacks pre-Supplement I, nat 20s doing double damage, etc.)
>>
>>65140202
>I think adding a few optional rules that the game has collected back in under the auspices of being fighter-only and optionally selected could work.
Just literally give them all to all fighters at all times from lvl 1. In B/X at least they can use the love.
>>
>>65140189
The Thief as an archetype is just too iconic and it fills a niche that isn't covered as well by the other classes. The Core Four have an almost Jungian or Campbellian nature to them:
Warrior, Wise Man, Magician, Trickster
>>
>>65140230
The thief is not it's own archetype. It's literally just a fighting man played differently.
Are priests, clerics, crusaders, paladins, healing men, and monks all their own deserving of their own classes? Just play a cleric to taste.
The core is three. Not four. And the thing most people forget is you are in no way meant to have equal numbers of each.
5:2:1 is the optimal ratio in my opinion. If you were to drop down size, you'd retain one cleric and one magic user but just add fighters until around the sixth or so, where I'd throw another cleric in.
>>
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>>65140271
>The thief is not it's own archetype. It's literally just a fighting man played differently.
>>
>>65140084
Looks like a bunch of level bound skills/on a sheet.
>>
>>65140309

Player skill, not character (sheet) ability.
>>
>>65140300
Ends up the dwarves and Gandalf didn't need a burglar at all. They were already thieves (fighting men).
>>
>>65140300
Name the differences then.
I fail to see how it is any different than the aforementioned examples.
Do you need a different class if your fighting-man wields a sword versus a spear or axe?
Why the fuck do you need a different one when he picks up a dagger?
>>
>>65140444
As originally intended, Thieves in OD&D had quasi-supernatural abilities separate from what other classes could achieve.

While Fighters could take their armor and boots off and sneak, or listen at doors, or scale a cobblestone wall, Thieves could do things like completely disappear into a shadow. Move without making any noise. Scale entirely smooth surfaces without handholds.

They began as an NPC class that players would go into town and hire to handle things like locks and traps in dungeons, then eventually people wanted to play them. What we ended up with in Greyhawk was a badly written result of a game of telephone (literally) that the creator had tried to explain to Gygax.
>>
>>65140444
>Why the fuck do you need a different one when he picks up a dagger?
Wat
>>
>>65140477
Even with that interpretation I'm not sure they're worthy of their own class. Particularly because I don't see them as using the majority of those abilities in a meaningful way in a dungeon. Even if you made extensive use of scouts (which is a horrible idea in practice due to the focus on a single player), it still seems like it'd be of questionable value in most dungeon settings.
I -do- think that something along the lines of a 'dungeoneer' class that focused on mapping, valuation of treasure, traps, and learning monster abilities could in a story type medium very well. But in gameplay it also has the same issues that thieves do, which is a separation of player/character skill.
If the thief or halfling was reworked into a race that could do the invisible and climb things, among some other things that were clearly supernatural and not just pushing player skill to a roll, it might work.
>>
Should the Bonus XP % for having high Prime Requisites be higher than 10%? Already that is such a paltry bonus that it doesn't end up giving any real level advantage, to say nothing of the meaningless 5% bonus for 13-14.
>>
>>65140574
>If the thief or halfling was reworked into a race that could do the invisible and climb things, among some other things that were clearly supernatural
You mean...
CHAMELEON MEN?
>>
>>65140630
By how much? I think you could probably bump it a bit, but you gotta be careful. I can't remember where, but I read somewhere that the strategy common in Gygax's games was to give all treasure to a single character at a time, allowing 'powerlevelling' low level characters to catch them up, and getting benefits faster.
It does make sense from a gamey sense; you'd rather get one character in your party to level every session rather than all at once every X sessions, especially against a static dungeon. But with significant amounts of bonus XP this could get out of hand pretty quick I think.
However, since most people probably use a share system (especially if they use hirelings), it might not be a problem at all.
>>
>>65140630
Prime Requisites should not be
>>
>>65140659
Honestly, yes.
>>
>>65140674
>the strategy common in Gygax's games was to give all treasure to a single character at a time, allowing 'powerlevelling' low level characters to catch them up
XP is divided evenly, even if loot is not.
>>
>>65140674
Yeah, personally I've always played a share system. It never even occurred to me that all XP could be given to one character. Seems a little... unintended.

Assuming a share system, does 10% for 13-14 and 20% for 15+ seem reasonable?
>>
Found where I read it:
http://blogofholding.com/?p=4912
>Fast-leveling PCS: Since you got XP from money, the Greyhawk players would fast-level characters by giving them all the loot from the adventure. When Mike suggested we give all the loot to the first-level cleric to level him to 2, it blew my mind.
>Although this is possible under the XP rules, I’ve never seen this practiced, or suggested, in 1e games. In Greyhawk, they did this all the time.

>>65140689
That's an easy way to handle it.

>>65140709
Sounds fine to me, yeah.
>>
>>65140774
Couldn't you just pass loot back and forward and level up infinitely following this rule?
>>
>>65140630
I feel like the bonus to rolls is enough and that the XP multipliers is unnecessary and just encourages people to re-roll characters
>>
>>65140779
I assume it's a one-off on when it comes out of the dungeon.
>>
Would anybody happen to have high resolution, textless versions of the AD&D 1E cover art for the PHB, DMG, and MM?

I'm looking to have them printed as little spiral-bound A5 books for quick reference at the table and wanted to use those as covers since the scans of the actual covers out there aren't exactly print quality.

Apternatively, if you want to recommend some good old school TSR-era artwork I should use instead, that'd be great too.
>>
>>65140836
>AD&D 1E
>quick reference at the table
Yikes!
>>
What is the point of blackhack/whitehack? Is it just B/X for people who really like roll under?
>>
Ok so how do you actually award XP for gold? Like:
>taking loot from the dungeon
Fine, NP, everyone agrees with this. How about:
>robbing a bank
Do the PCs get XP?
>kidnapping and ransoming
????
>seizing control of a kingdom
Do they level up based on the total value of the kingdom?
>>
>>65141132
XP for Gold is about recovering the Valuable from Chaos. You take it out of the wilderness/underworld and you return it to civilization. It's mythopoetic. So no, I wouldn't allow robbing a bank or kidnapping and randoming to count. Seizing control of a kingdom? Is the kingdom a rival society that lives by the rule of brute might and foreign gods? Then yes, maybe. Deus Vult.
>>
>>65141083
Black Hack is for hipsters who want to have OSR cred but don't want play OSR games.

>>65141132
1. Yes
2. Yes but there will be consequences
3. Yes but that's fucking boring and if your players keep doing it then you're probably gaming with sociopaths
4. XP is only earned on tributes (not taxes)
>>
PLAY GAMES

A YUUGE show is selling tickets for 2020! A colossal extravaganza!
Play the latest new games, Buy the cool Stuff… and New School rocks!
https://tabletop.events/…/hotel-registration-for-gary-con-2…

The Company is also warning you about a Clear & Present Danger:
https://garycon.com/blog/2019/02/18/harbinger-unheeded/
(Another source: https://boundingintocomics.com/…/garycon-removes-frank-men…/ )

I haven’t been the company’s Guest since 2017. I don’t know why I’m being harassed.
You’ve waited patiently for details of the accusations in that February post. You’ll have to wait longer.

I know as little as you. I’ve been in the waiting room for 3 weeks.
The Company wrote to me and said “Don't contact me again by any form of communication”. (I will not reveal details about actual People.)
Catch-22; I cannot fix this.

This Company speaks of “toxic aggression” while it does the same.
It warns of terrible danger while asking for money.

I’m a retired wizard, not a young fighter.
A creepy corporate monster ate my friends. Someone should free them.
I shall be wary of this danger. You can decide whether to flee or obey.
Is there a monster-slayer among you?

-- mustengo
(the dead horse still being beaten)
>>
>>65141651
The Assassination Game

"we must ensure that everyone feels welcome, safe, and believes that they are a valued member of our community regardless of..." (etc etc) -- a Gary Con business executive

Except me, of course -- for reasons Gary Con has yet to explain.
I'm just an ailing retiree, not valued at all.
Ask them why.

My public execution was a month ago. We're all waiting for the mock trial that should follow.
Ask the con for details. They haven't told me yet.
Gary Con has accused me of the following. No due process, just internet smears.

past misconduct
harassing behavior
threatening behavior
threatening communications
tone-deaf unapologetic responses
violation of the ethics policy
violation of the harassment policy
toxic aggression detrimental to the safe space

And of course Gary Con is breaking all their own rules -- a month of one-sided internet attacks -- but don't bring that up. (Oops! Do as we say, not as we do...)

"left the door open for him to attend Gary Con" -- a business executive

Yes indeed. I could again be treated like an Unperson and an outcast -- "That Guest" of 10 years and a family friend for 35, who had been Cast Out and conspicuously erased from the ranks of the Privileged.

No Thank You.

Play BECMI
>>
>>65141263
Why would you not get XP for robbing a Drow bank? Why wouldn't Chaotic players get XP for robbing any bank?
>>
>>65141651
>>65141666
I do wonder what exact comment(s) he made about JPrice's pussy.
>>
>>65141800
Do Chaotics get XP for pretending to rob their own bank for insurance fraud purposes?
>>
>>65140659
>>65140686
What about their eyes and tongue?
>>
Any ideas for biotech dungeon? So far I have the monsters pheromone
Sacks working as keys for various sphincter doors.
>>
>>65141378
who tf wants OSR cred
>>
>>65142521
Zak "5e is OSR because I say so" Sabbath
S. "I use the 1e MM at my table so GLOG is OSR" Kerples
>>
>>65141666

Frank,

BECMI was my first D&D you are a great man. I hate to be the one to tell you this but Luke is cut from the same cloth as his father before him. Money talks and Mearls has it. Mearls is behind this whole thing as he must prove his sjw chops and be extra inclusive/intellectually pure to makeup for the hiring Zak S as a consultant for 5E.

You were a target of opportunity and easy one to make an enemy of the state out of. 5E Adventurers League is taking over GaryCon. Something like 25% of GaryCon games were Adventurers League this year.

Progressive SJW stuff is all the rage with the youngsters and that’s who largely plays 5E. Just pandering to the base.

GaryCon isn’t going to be a Old School Con much longer. I’m sorry they kicked you out and I recommend NTRPGCON if you can still travel.
>>
>>65142521

Anyone playing for cred or social status is a FOE. Playing for anything else but a love of the game means you are a FOE.

I ran into some phaggot “professional DM” a few weeks back that ran “OSR games like Dungeon World and Burning Wheel”.

I’ll be happy when rpgs undergo their next hibernation cycle. I don’t know how much longer my fat engorged grognard heart can survive these story gamer scum co-opting the OSR.
>>
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>>65141651
>>65141666

At some point I just feel bad for Frank Mentzer. This is just fucking mean.

Also source
>>
>>65142755

It was on Mentzers Facebook page. It’s on tenkars tavern
>>
>>65142755
He refined the greatest edition of D&D but that doesn't give him immunity to being a weird old pervert. Social ostracism is how society works.
>>
>>65141651
He sounds a bit... scattered. You’d expect someone who’s job is writing to communicate a bit more coherently. Early stages of dementia?
>>
Any good Sci fi OSR that isn't SWN? I'm finalizing my game and am curious of any info I might be missing.
>>
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>>65142755

>Zak unpersoned despite being innocent
>frank said hello to an sjw years ago and unpersoned

So Much Drama In The OSR....
>>
Demon-Mine dungeon guy, if you are still looking for players, I'm game.
>>
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>>65143411
(((Zak))) got what he deserved, but Franky Panky did nothing wrong.
>>
>>65143389

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/424112640/phantasmagoria-1-a-sword-and-planet-zine-for-dcc-r

It's not OSR though, being DCC.
>>
>>65137976
vidya design and tabletop design share more than you think.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f5I6uo39ujQ

Mechanics exist to arbitrate story conflict in an impartial manner, taking the burden off the DM. The more mechanics and consistent rewards a particular situation has allocated to it, the more its expected to be the main system of conflict resolution.

For instance, people hate diplomancers because in D&D social conflict resolution methods use merely talking and a single roll, almost a handwave with just enough mechanics to impartially tell whether it succeeds or not. And this feels like an exploit, because you're bypassing the very obvious main intended gameplay loop of kill-loot-level.

People don't generally hate diplomancers in whitewolf systems though because the process is just as involved. There are in-depth mechanics designated for resolving conflicts in that manner, its not just 1 roll and loldone.

So think about what you want the main themes and styles of conflict resolution you want the game to focus on, then make your mechanics demonstrate them.
>>
>>65143411

> So much drama in the OSR

It’s hard being to an SJW People’s Comissar
>>
>>65143466

DCC wears the aesthetic of the OSR but has many modern mechanics incorporated. I personally can do without swingy magic, excessive tables needed for regular play, stupid dice, kovacs need to make everything weird, funnel play (that was invented in an AD&D module I might add). 40 and 50 something gamers are nothing but cashcows for Goodman to sell his rewritten 3rd Ed. To.
>>
>>65143537

Has anyone Been TO be How to Go to what where to be and look like?????
>>
>>65143411
I totally trust and believe your version of events, Mr. Neutral Unbiased Observer
>>
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>>65143574

I don't dislike DCC, I've said it before that I let it sit at the table as long as it doesn't get too loud and drown out interesting discussion. Has some good ideas to pillage(mighty deeds being my favorite) but you're right about swingy magic, tables for fucking everything, especially since DCC monsters get retarded powerful at higher levels and you *need* warriors attacking eight times with a crit to stay on even footing.

Funnels are a great time, but could easily just be board game considering your options as a funnel character are attack and thats it. The aggressive con focus is also tiresome, and the fact that they fund literally everything through kickstarter despite claiming that the DCC product line has sold half a million products is objectively irritating.
>>
>>65143466
I've gotten my hands on that and I can easily say, that its not worth the price. Only a few classes are interesting (the robot, starborn) while the others are just lacking. Like the Jovian. If i got a player that rolled a jovian, i would tell them you don't need to go through playing such a shit class. 1d5 hitpoints, which is fine but in a game where you are shot at with weapons doing 1d8 or 2d6, your going to always get one shot which is fun for OSR . This isn't including that they can't wear any form of armour, so i hope your happy always being at AC 10 aka. The writer should have said "Players can wear armour but they lose the ability to fly when wearing anything"

The whole zine feels imcomplete, if I had to summarize my hate for it. You have lots of neat ideas that aren't fleshed out. Basically having one guy writing out everything the night before, going to sleep and not checking it in the morning with a clear head. The only good thing to come out of it is the occupation table, and the space ship creator. Tho, the space ship creator leaves a lot more to be wanted; feels half complete and should have its own zine to flesh it out more.

In short, for five bucks to buy the pdf, you could get more bang for your buck by buying hte free version of Stars without numbers. Better selection of weapons, an actual customizable star ship creator and alien creator to fill your world. Combine this with some DCC rules and your good to go.
>>
>>65143309
Even his denial gives away that he did some shit m8.
>>
>>65143745

To be fair, the starship creator is going to get more...stuff with the second Zine.

IDK how well versed you are with the DCC Zine model, but it's essentially parsing out a book's worth of content in a dozen or so zines.

Basically it's not usable in its current form. I'm currently in a game and it's pretty ok, but we're basically just avoiding getting into space battles because the DM won't be able to run them. :(
>>
>>65143728
heh heh heh... I thought libs were THIS kind of strawman, not THIS kind of strawman! fucking epic logic PWN! checkmate,,dumbasses...heh...
>>
>>65144040
Hey pasta
>>
>>65143867
Where does it say the second zine is going to be on starship creator? Is it behind the Issue 2 progress update?

I've read through a fair bit of zines so I think i have an idea of what a zine should have an so forth. Probably referencing SWN as an alternative buy over the zine is unfair but if this is the quality of work i can expect for the rest of the zines that will lead to a book, I would still tell people to get SWN.
>>
>>65142604
NTR con?
>>
>>65144129

I mean, it was made by a fucking fortnite playing zoomer. What do you want?
>>
File: OSRG Volume II.pdf (7.93 MB, PDF)
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7.93 MB PDF
>>65144111
Yo
>>
>>65144040

whats the evidence there?
>>
>>65141888
Yes, but the money is based on the insurance payout and not the haul from the bank.
>>
>>65144153
I expected some quality. I guess i was asking for to much.
>>
>>65144146
Lmao, you’re getting proper mad now
>>
>>65139571
>>65140093

I have party who where all humans, and the dude playing a thief wanted to play s a halflng. So I let him play a halfling thief (mechanicly, he was just a thief)
Then I got a new player who wanted to play a Halfling class,so we now have two different halflings and we are fine.
They are cousings.
>>
>>65140477
>As originally intended, Thieves in OD&D had quasi-
>supernatural abilities separate from what other
>classes could achieve.
We are not talking about intentions we are
talking about the literature.
>>
>>65144136

He’s talking about North Texas RPG Con.
>>
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New to OSR, just wanted to ask: what's the simplest and shortest OSR ruleset? Something like Knave (pdf related), except with actual classes
>>
>>65141800
>Why would you not get XP for robbing a Drow bank
Because Drow money is like Drow magic items and dissolves in the sunlight. Or Drow money is just rare and extremely dangerous spiders.
>>
>>65144259
Why did you make your new player play a thief? Do you hate him?
>>
Hot take: race-as-class should only be used for weird OSR hipster races like vat mutants and talking bears.

Humans-in-funny-hats elves, dwarves and halflings should all be race-and-class.
>>
>>65144563
Swords & Wizardry Light will do it for you
>>
>>65144319
wEre tALkinG aBouT THe LiTEraTUre
>>
>>65144706
What even is "the literature" for shit like Lamentations of the Flame Princess? The Vagina Ass of Lucifer Niggerbastard?
>>
>>65144740
Hammer Horror films and anything edgy
>>
>>65143537
But somehow, some way, I keep smellin' funky as shit nearly every single day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4hGSR5njZE
>>
>>65140084
>This got me thinking about doing the same for Fighters, but instead of Skills they have Techniques. So far I have a Cleaving-like ability that fills in for the normal one attack per Hit Die against weaker opponents rule (providing a more smooth scale for fighters to multiple attacks against enemies higher than just 1HD), as well as Natural 20s giving double-damage criticals.
I really like the abilities The White Hack gives the Strong class, so I'd check those out for inspo or just lift them directly. They're a lot like 5e's Battlemaster maneuvers which are also great please no bully
>>
>>65143452
He wants players not games.
>>
>>65141083
I don't really like "roll under" that much but I like white hack. If I ever actually get any players willing to try it I might even houserule away the "fumble on 20s" rule to be slightly different. That said, I like how it has fighters, thieves, and wizards as the three classes, and really most other things about the system.
Maybe I should re-read B/X, but I dimly remember it was a little spread out for my tastes. I also keep forgetting which one B/X is because I'm a bit of a dummy.
>>
>>65145006
Maneuvers are fine, it’s just that their resource system is a dissociated pile of shit.

Just do >>65140222
>>
>>65145314
>>65145006
If you want to use maneuvers but also want them to be limited to lower level fighters, just require a d6 roll in addition to your attack roll. 4 or higher with a successful attack means a successful maneuever (failing either roll means the maneuever fails). Decrease the required roll every few levels until all maneuvers are virtually guaranteed on a successful attack roll. Give bonuses and penalties according to taste in given situations/against certain enemies, such as fighters of equal or greater level.
>>
>>65144425
Oof, sorry about the name.
>>
>>65140084
>What are some other iconic abilities of fighters from past editions that might work as optional techniques selected by the player? Deflect Arrows?
This depends on the flavor you want (obviously it would pull heavily toward wuxia) but most Monk abilities could probably work well reformulated as Fighting-Man Skills.

In an OD&D context a large difficulty is that the Fighting-Man is *already* bomb-ass crazy good, a fireball exploding in somebody's face every round, but if you're doing this for the anemic B/X Fighter an obvious addition would be an extra-attack skill available on every skill level. They wouldn't even have to be a chain, you just couldn't pick the same one twice. I think your idea of the uncanny danger-sense is a great one, and very fitting for pulp heroes.

I would strongly advise you NOT to have weapon and armor use as skills, however; let all Fighters start with access to all weapons or armor. Restricting that is just a lock-in that's not good for anybody, including you as the referee. And in general, be careful not to just recreate feats: a Trip skill that makes it basically futile to trip if you don't have it is still cancer if it's a "level 1 skill" instead of a feat.
>>
>>65144319
Gray Mouser was a Thief and a Magic-user
>>
>>65140084
I've been working on something similar to this myself, but it's not far along. I guess we're racing now.
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>>65144671
This guy gets it, Race-As-Class is a B/X construct that strays from the superior LBB/1E model
>>
Fighters and thieves are hireling classes. True ~ZOZ is found in the struggle for power between Magic-Users and Clerics.
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>>65146428
Race-as-class is fun and eliminates the need for silly things like "level limits"
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>>65146251
>builds
Just tie them to attack rolls. Everything available at 1. That way they progress naturally
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>>65146251
>And in general, be careful not to just recreate feats: a Trip skill that makes it basically futile to trip if you don't have it is still cancer if it's a "level 1 skill" instead of a feat.
I feel like the best way to do this (and this is from somebody who does really like maneuvers) is to reduce all of them to a single thing that the fighter just gets. Call it a "Fighter Die" or a "Feat Die" if you're feeling cheeky.

So, when Fighting-man wants to trip a goblin, he rolls his Feat Die (maybe after the attack hits?) to see if he succeeds at knocking him over. Or if he wants to make a called shot, he makes his attack roll and then rolls that same Feat Die to see if he hit the right spot. If you want to make this a little strict with this, you can limit the amount of Feat Dice they have per day or whatever.
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>>65146451
Gary Gygax's favorite player class was fighter, so no, you're not ~ZOZ at all. In fact you're nothing but a FOE.
>>
Is there any reason not to make combat maneuvres 'roll to hit, and do the thing instead of dealing damage'?
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>>65146494
I don't disagree, but all the default race-classes are dull and bring about weird justifications for elves, dwarves etc. Race-class your Dream-Eating Wasp Men till the sun burns out, but let the halflings choose.
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>>65146510
Just because EGG coined the term ~ZOZ doesn't mean he understood it.
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>>65146575
By virtue of coining the term, he did.
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>>65146523
Yes. Allowing fighters to get both the maneuver AND the damage roll with a feat die. Everyone else has to rely on the attack roll to get just the maneuever. The fighter can opt for damage, the feat alone (which has a greater chance of success), or both simultaneously. This gives the fighter one hell of a chance against a strictly superior opponent whereas everybody else is fucked.
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>>65146546
>but let the halflings choose.
Bilbo Baggins didn't get to choose. He was a fantastic thief merely by virtue of being a halfling without any training in stealth.
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>>65145056
It's an burgerlander colloquialism. It means 'willing to do (X)'
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>>65146546
I agree it should depend on the race but I strongly disagree with your example. I think Halflings is one of the best candidates for race-as-class. Anthropomorphic furry men and lizard men type races are the best candidates for race and class imo.
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>>65146510
>Gary Gygax's favorite player class was fighter

and yet he played so many wizards, and when he made his council of 12, they were all casters.

Almost like Fighter isn't ever meant for play over level like... 12
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>>65146510
Riiiiiight up until he actually played an Mu. Then he dropped that shit like a banana peel.
>>
Would you play an all-MU game? Assuming they get cleric spells and Turn Undead as a spell of course
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>>65146746
>>65146774
>directly admit I'm right
>"b-b-but...!"
Good day.
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>>65146793
>Assuming they get cleric spells and Turn Undead as a spell of course
That's not a MU then. That's a "Sage".
>>
>>65146793
Yeah, but I would hire cleric and thief hirelings though.
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>>65146793
I’d play an all MU game, but without the Cleric abilities (cuz then we’re not MUs). Instead, grant 1 extra spell at first level, and I’d also gladly take the 3e Disrupt Undead spell instead if you insist on being generous.
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>>65146620
Well, the Ring helped.
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>>65146793
All-Class parties are fun.
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>>65146798
It turns out there are more than two posters. I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

>>65146793
The duplicitous wizard FEARS his atrophic neighbor.
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>>65146590
this just in, botanist Robert Brown still leading expert on Brownian Motion despite nearly 200 years of atomic and molecular physics research, Einstein a fraud say reporters on site.
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>>65146876
Yes, but all that granted was the invisibiliy needed to thwart a dragon’s senses. Everything else was natural agility, silence, and the inherent drawbacks of being a manlet, namely that nobody notices you or registers you as a threat
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>>65146913
Is Brown the one who called it Brownian Motion?
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>>65146793
False OSR Enthusiast, get ye gone
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>>65146946
>inherent drawbacks of being a manlet
They're not really "inherent drawbacks" if you can use them to your advantage, are they?
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>>65146946
Hobbits especially. Its like some smiley doormat stoner manlet actually turning out to be a carrying a glowing machete and gunning for your neck.

some dang assassination classroom BS right there
>>
>>65147007
Being resourceful with a drawback makes it no less of a drawback, but I’ll admit you have a point.
>>
>>65140836
I've searched endlessly, no dice. Some schuck did a recasting of the original art but added a bunch of crap you'd need to crop out, the art quality is lower too.
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>>65146953
He was not. A much better example, both for phrase coining and for juxtaposing with Einstein, would have been Newtonian mechanics.
>>
>>65146953
I think he called it "pedesis" which is the true scientific term. they are synonymous though, one is just more esoteric because "muh latin."
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>>65146428
Stop replying to yourself>>65146428
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>>65147080
>>
>>65142715
Careful with that heart attack, anon.
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>>65146504
>If you want to make this a little strict with this, you can limit the amount of Feat Dice they have per day or whatever.
D I S S O C I A T E D
>>
>>65142521
No one, but grogs like to pretend they're some sort of schlock fantasy last guardians of purity against the ravening 5E/4E/3.x/2E hordes.
>>
>>65146494
Level limits are retarded. Give all races, including Humans, some form of minor perk or even no perk at all, just flavour text them to be different. Like the original commenter said, elves dwarves and halflings are just humans with funny hats, there's no need for mechanical difference between them. If you really want, give a +1 and -1 to two different stats for each race, like
ELVES +1 CHA/-1CON
DWARVES +1 CON/-1 DEX
HALFLINGS +1 DEX/-1 STR
HUMANS +1 STR/-1 WIS

>inb4 "builds" LBB stats have such a minimal bearing on the character's power level and just mostly reflect minor side mechanics. A dwarf having 11 average Con is not going to be worlds overpowered compared to the rest of the 9-10 non-dwarves.
>>
>>65147264
Slippery slope, FOE.
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>>65147167
Dissociated or not, if we’re still talking the B/X fighter, the poor dude needs some help. Infinite maneuvers is good, especially if they aren’t guaranteed to work. The thief gets infinite attempts to vanish in shadows, why can’t the fighter have infinite chances to make a called shot?
>>
>>65147264
Or you could just bother making 2 racial classes for each demihuman, which is all you need. Nobody cares about dwarf wizards.
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>>65147118
I've yet to do so, turns out multiple people can have similar opinions on things
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>>65147321
>Dissociated or not, if we’re still talking the B/X fighter, the poor dude needs some help.
Not an argument. If you’re hacking something, might as well do it right instead of adding stupid dissociated ”daily power” resources.
>>
>>65147264
>humans getting ability score adjustments

Humans are the standard by which all other humanoids are measured. What average are you basing these off of if not humans?
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>>65138523
Y-yeah, sure... haha... I'll... I'll see you guys on Saturday... yeah.
>>
>>65147317
If you're concerned about the slippery slope to builds, just don't give racial perks. I don't give them in my games the stat suggestions were a concession if you insist of racial differentiation. Nothing about Gimli being a Dwarf made him a better or worse warrior than Boromir.
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>>65147264
See this is why it’s important to be conservative with racial abilities and such when one insists on using race-and-class. If the bonuses and penalties are insignificant, why have them? If they are significant, then yes you are encouraging builds which, while it may not NECESSARILY go against the old school spirit, it is indeed a slippery slope. I’d rather impose racial limits and minimum for abilities than bonuses and penalties (you must meet a minimum to qualify as a race, but if you exceed the maximum then your score is decreased to the max allowed).
Or, just say fuck it and use race-as-class to remove a good 5-10 minutes from the character creation process. You’re using 3d6 straight down anyway... right?
>>
>>65147386
If you were able to read you’d see I was agreeing that limited daily maneuvers is a bad idea. I’m saying that dissociated mechanics alone are not a strong enough reason on their own, but they do support an even stronger reason and comparison like the one I gave.
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>>65147389
I don't use stat modifiers. It was a hypothetical, just talking off the cuff, the idea being that if you insist on giving a buff/drawback to the demihumans for race-and-class, give something to humans so you don't need to level cap demihumans on account of superiority
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>>65147151
Now I wonder how many people this thread has actually killed.
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>>65147336
Actually, that's a decent idea. I liked all the subclasses in AS&SH, giving a fighter and thief subclass for dwarf and halfling, and a fighter and magic-user sublclass for elves could flesh out the roles nicely

though when i was in high school my GM didn't care about racial restrictions at all and i did play a dwarf wizard. Angir the Slim, a emaciated dwarf wizard starved and shaky from spending all his time working uphill to be a dwarf wizard instead of working and sleeping like everyone else. He was FOE by /osr/ standards, but he holds a special place for me
>>
Humans can reroll stats each level up. Other races cannot, as they've already stopped growing.

There's your human racial perk.
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>>65147446
I do 3d6 down the line, no racial mods, race is just a hat in my game. A dwarf fighter is like choosing to be a norse-style viking or a lancelot-style knight errant. All shown in equipment choice and roleplay, no mechanical difference.
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>>65142491
You might want to start with the high concept. Why is the dungeon a biotech dungeon, for instance?

Off the top of my head, it could be a biological spaceship. Some kind of alien, wizard, or alien wizard crashed here a long time ago and needs to repair their bioship. That's complicated, so first they have to create a "garden" to regrow components and stuff. The blighted land in the adjacent hexes to this place is actually an alien ecosystem made for soaking up materials and covering the "ruins" in "kudzu" that repairs the ship. Then it's trying to drain a lake to refuel itself and go.

So, you need creatures that maintain the bio-kudzu, fight off predators, some goop that does some digging and processing, and maybe giant mosquitos that analyze creatures for biochemical composition because the sphincter doors need wolf spleens to grow or something.
>>
>>65147264
>Level limits are retarded.
"No!"
Level limits are the cost munchkins pay for getting to be immune to ghoul paralysis

>>65147603
Better perk: Humans can be any class and advance to any level while non-humans cannot
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>>65147776
Fuck that. Make humans level faster altogether. B/X already basically does this anyway.
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>>65147776
How can level limits be real if high levels are not real?
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>>65147776
If none of the races are immune to ghoul paralysis, then munchkins need not pay any price. In fact, if, as I've suggested, being a dwarf has no mechanical difference to being a human, then munchkins can't really munchkin, can they? 3d6 down the line, Fighter, Cleric, Magic-User, Thief. If you want your cleric to be a Dwarven priest to the Mountain King, or your archer to be a pointy-eared faggot by all means, do that. No need to bring mechanics into it at all. My first character was a wizard with a robot hand. What did the hand give? Nothing. It just looked cool when I drew his portrait at level one. Why make things more complicated with 3 extra classes that are just worse versions of the core classes?
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>>65147927
>My first character was a wizard with a robot hand. What did the hand give? Nothing.
http://monstermanualsewnfrompants.blogspot.com/2014/11/this-is-not-that-list-of-questions-for.html
>>
is there anything that can be even tangentially called OSR that features mecha?
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>>65148552
Stars Without Number
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>>65148651
Yeah, fair enough. I'm the sort of dick who differentiates between power armor and mechs, and I think SWN's thing is more the former, but I'll take it. Thanks.
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>>65148735
Dude, there are legit mechs in SWN: Core Edition.
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>>65148790
Are there? From what I've been told, they don't get any bigger than like a power loader or such. Have I been lied to?
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>>65148895
NAYRT but why are you still asking when you've already decided to read it?
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>>65148908
I hadn't, I had begrudgingly accepted that this was probably the best answer I was gonna get and decided not to pry further with the question, since nobody likes a pest.
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>>65146503
>>65146504
Well, I encourage both of you to play the way you like, but keep in mind that Anon specified that he was working on a Warlock-analogue Fighter with trained skills, like that Thief class. Saying "don't do that" is pretty much useless as a response. I was trying to fit the brief, not dictate the best way to run a Fighter.
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>>65148552
Skrepleks did his mecha adaptation of LotFP, the name was something hopping on the Flame Something-Something bandwagon as usual for LotFP hax.
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>>65148895
Yes, you've been lied to. The mechs in Stars Without Number come in three sizes: Power Armor, Scopedog, and Mechwarrior.
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>>65148552
>>65149005
https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/search/label/Flame%20Pomerium
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>>65147126
what point are you trying to make here?
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>>65143411
even if Zak is innocent(which I don't believe one iota), he's still a humongous douche, so I'm fine with him getting the boot

>>65144740
>What even is "the literature" for shit like Lamentations of the Flame Princess?
there was a good list a couple threads ago

>>65148552
see>>65149472 for Skerple's Flame Pomerium concept
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>>65149527
PICTURES IN YOUR MIND WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO
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>>65148015
I feel like you might be smack-talking me but honestly, ya, those are the sorts of players I run for and seek out as compatriots when I am a player
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>>65148015
>shilling crapprincess
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>>65149472
>Dungeon Bulwark. Stats as a Lich. All shall cower! All shall fear! Its eyes are Beholders. Its breath, a swarm of stirges! Its bones are tombstones, its muscles are chains! Its pilot is an insane but patriotic lich.
>>
>>65149671
One day I'll run a game of this, or write the Monster Mecha-Haul.
>>
>>65149502
I forget.

>>65149593
How much bearing 'fluff' has on gameplay is a matter of taste and while
>No need to bring mechanics into it at all.
is a perfectly fine answer it is not a blanket answer.
>>
>>65140084
This is actually pretty cool.
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>>65149955
Oh definitely, my players don't mind all dwarves being scottish/Russian caricatures with no mechanical bearing but another mans game can and should be run differently
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>1gp = 10sp = 100cp = (very approximately) £1 in 1800 = (extremely approximately) $100 modern American.

>>65149527
>even if Zak is innocent(which I don't believe one iota),
I don't know how you could read his statement and still come away with that conclusion.
>he's still a humongous douche, so I'm fine with him getting the boot
That seems to be the consensus. But you can drop the rape accusations while keeping the douche-boot.
>>
>>65150592
Given the rounding I'm doing, it's also equal to $100 modern Canadian or €100.
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>>65150698
You weren't kidding when you said extremely.
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>>65150723
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem
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>>65150592
>Higher in Canada
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>>65144693
I wish the "print friendly" version wasn't ass. Type is too small for the grognards it actually appeals to. That and it's super low res, so it prints blurry. Swords & Wizardry Continual Light prints perfect at home and fits nicely in a Duo-Tang.
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>>65150913
just print out the word version then ya fake grog
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>>65150904
My first thought.
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>>65150904
Especially now that legabis is cannabized.
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>>65150942
The S&W Light Word document is a 14 page document that has to be reformatted for printing. I know because I actually spent two evenings reformatting it for personal use. S&W Light only fits on two pages because of the two column layout and absurdly tiny font. The Word document is 14 pages long. Meanwhile, SWCL is 16 pages long if you don't print out the title and license pages and I can actually read it without straining my eyes. So, problem solved. Still doesn't fix the shitty "print friendly" version of S&W which is great if you have eagle eyes or a microscope handy.
>>
>>65151367
In short, I highly recommend people just pay two bucks for SWCL and print it at home. It's the same rules with more options. It's easier to read and use at the table if your eyesight isn't great.
>>
>>65149871
>One day I'll run a game of this, or write the Monster Mecha-Haul.
do both

>>65149671
personally I like the Tyrant enemy best, it's just so menacing

>>65149550
one of the great things about doing a Mecha campaign is there's so much great music to steal
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>>65151734
>do both
The annoying thing, aside from the lack of time, is that I'll probably need to watch some more anime in order to "do it properly".
Assuming you had to pick one mecha anime that
a) contains all the major classic tropes
b) has a wide variety of characters, situations, missions, and between-mission drama
c) is accessible to someone who has confused hamtaro and madoka on more than one occasion
what would it be?
>>
>>65151930
If you can stand '70s animation, honestly the original Mobile Suit Gundam should do the trick.
>>
>>65151930
You don't hammer with a screwdriver. Ask in >>>/toy/7438701
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>>65152116
>Ask [another board]
Ask >>>/wsr/
Or settle for >>65152057.
He sounds reasonable.
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>>65151930
If you're skerp the fuck off
If you're not skerp then go to >>>/m/
And asking for a single mecha anime that contains all major tropes is like asking for a fantasy novel that contains all major tropes: You aren't going to find it.
>>
>>65152116
Far easier to ask the OSR people about [media] for OSR purposes than it is to ask the [media] people about what's useful for OSR purposes. There's just less to explain.
Besides, it's a very slow thread.
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>>65152057
>>65152211
>He sounds reasonable.
>the original Mobile Suit Gundam should do the trick
"No!"
The first Gundam series doesn't even have all the major tropes of the Gundam franchise, let alone the mecha supergenre

>>65152240
If you want OSR mecha then watch Dunbine (fantasy mecha) and Votoms (mecha as common equipment)
>>
>>65137717
>TQ: what was Pundit smoking when TSR cooked up lesser divination?
I don't know, but I wish more people would subscribe to RPGPundit's YouTube channel because he says he'll put out more weekly videos once he gets to 1000 subscribers and I love listening to his rants. Say what you will about him, at least he understands OSR.
>>
>Unironic Punditshilling
This is what a post-Zak /osrg/ looks like, huh
>>
I think someone said Spelljammer has mecha. What are the rules for that?
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>>65152291
Nah, his shit sucks.
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>>65144177
>>
>>65152282
>If you want OSR mecha then watch Dunbine (fantasy mecha) and Votoms (mecha as common equipment)
Thanks, will probably mix and match.
>>65152236
Went to /m/, remained deeply confused.
>>
>>65151930
my choices would be;

1) Shin Mazinger Z

2) Gundam 00

3) Gurren Lagann

4) Neon Genesis Evangelion

5) Getter Robo Armageddon
>>
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>>65152476
He's putting our words in it too.
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>>65152476
>>65152502
If you wish to contribute to our 'zine, you may do so at pastmanxlii@gmail.com
>>
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>>65152476
>>65152502
Hey, don't be mean to the zine. It's pretty decent. Pastaman may be a troll, a liar, a shithead, and a communist, but he is not a porn star.
>>
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>>65152492
Thanks. Seen 4) and bits of 3) (though I think the scale is a bit... much for OSR purposes). Still, useful.
I may check out Layzner as (according to /m/) it's got spooky robots in it.
>>
>>65152634
H-how is >>65152502 being mean to the lasagna?
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>>65152492
>Shin Mazinger Z
Skill-based but way too high-powered for OSR

>Gundam 00
Fuck no, Innovators/Celestial Being are Mary Sues

>Gurren Lagann
The Pathfinder of the mecha genre, it's a terrible choice

>Neon Genesis Evangelion
Do your OSR games feature soul-searching, intense amounts of role-play monologues, and pop psychology?

>Getter Robo Armageddon
Too high-powered + too hack-and-slash
Parts of New Getter and Ah are closer to the OSR
>>
>>65152730
>Do your OSR games feature soul-searching, intense amounts of role-play monologues, and pop psychology?
Y...yes?
Sometimes?
I mean, it's not really a mecha game if you can't heal by monologuing or sharing emotional trauma.
>>
>>65152760
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUamHEvVQy0

>>65152730
The end goal is content but the initial question (>>65151930) was learning the genre.
>>
>>65152730
Maybe just the first gundam?
>>
>>65152502
Your words are in the 'zine? Magnanimous of you given his history of taking huge shits in the thread.
>>
>>65152760
>I mean, it's not really a mecha game if you can't heal by monologuing or sharing emotional trauma.
False mecha enthusiast, get ye gone
>>
>>65152988
False enthusiasm enthusiast, get ye gone
>>
>>65152988
Fine. Or announcing that you're in love with another character, or breaking up with another character, or doing SOMETHING dramatic and related to your high-school hormones in the middle of a crisis.
Because you know it might end up with some epic thing but you know that it will begin in a high school.
>>
>>65153039
>Or announcing that you're in love with another character, or breaking up with another character, or doing SOMETHING dramatic and related to your high-school hormones in the middle of a crisis.
>Because you know it might end up with some epic thing but you know that it will begin in a high school.
You're a literal retard. You should not write anything related to mecha. YOu should not write anything related to OSR. Retard.
>>
>>65153039
That sounds storygamey to me.
>>
>>65153111 c >>65152670
Evangelion is all he knows.
That's why he asked >>65151930
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>>65153111
Oh please, I'm not being serious. Though I feel compelled to include those as optional rules now just to annoy you.
>>
>>65153111
So what got you kicked out of /m/, spikey?
>>
Hey, I am trying to make a cultist hideout, They don't really have power to summon anything out of the ordinary but maybe get some magical creatures for defense. What interesting encounters would you put there? They do have powerful masters that would be able to convince lesser acuatic races, but what else do you think is a good idea?
>>
>>65153160
It is a bit. It fills the same HP-replenishment role as a healing potion or a cleric's spell. Presumably it'd be a once-per-day or once-per-session thing. Monologue for a bit, heal 1d6 or 2d6 HP. Or maybe heal the target of your monologue for 2d6 HP. And you don't need to say the whole thing to the table; you can just give a brief synopsis if you want to.
>>
>>65153313
-Gargoyles are good for defense, especially mixed in with other statues.
-A trap that drops beetles and other horrible things. The beetles aren't harmful but cracking them spreads a glowing liquid around, making it easy for the cultists to spot the intruders in the dark.
-Big fake summoning circle that take a lot of time to damage so the cultists can call in reinforcements or escape.
-One cultist's been abusing their powers to satisfy a kink or get extra cash
>>
>>65153313
>>65153421
Ah man, I forgot of the most important detail, its a Deep Ones kind of cult. But those ideas kinda works, there is the Margoyle or whatever its called.
>>
>>65153489
Feel free to make up monsters too. If the players can go "oh, that's a Bhentupole from the Fiend Folio" it's not really properly monstrous. They should go "aaaah, what the fuck!"
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>>65153520
I usually just grab the statblock and change the things I need. But I needed some ideas on what to use to fill a dungeon with stuff. I have an idea of the start, I have an Idea of the end, but the middle is kinda muddy.
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>>65153201
Reeks of damage control sure tho.
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>>65153313
>>65153489
Morkoths
Kapoacinths (fluff as rocky Deep Ones)
Scrags (fluff as the children of Dagon/Hydra)
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>>65153638
Moonpool, kitchen, dorms, magic desalination plant, distillation room, ingredient storage, initiate testing chamber, lecture hall, backup sacrifice room. Monsters summoned, monsters that just turned up to eat leftovers, monsters that are also secretly invading, monsters that are running the show.
>>
>>65153645
You seriously thought I believe all anime must involve high school drama?
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>>65152282
Two episodes into Votoms. I like it, but boy they really did like the blue/red seizure effects back in the day.
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>>65147656
Swiggity Swooty, the airlocks require that booty.
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>>65152843
This t b h.
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>>65152843
God forbid we make a new thread sooner.
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>>65155375
It's not the number of posts, it's the quality. Surely you can troll elsewhere. Why shitpost where you eatpost?
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*works Tao of D&D into a seething shoot essay/rant/attempt at self-validation*
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>>65155442
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smtSv3e04vM
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To the dude asking about Mecha anime that is some how related tot he OSR mindset in a very tangential way, don't listen to this stupid douche>>65152282.

The original Mobile suit gundam is great, it has drew dynamics, lots of sci-fi details and gritty action.
I also recommend Votoms the original series is pretty good. grittier than gundam, features a runaway super soldier persecuted unjustly, a great number of vastly varied locales and side-plots for idea mining.
Xabungle is another good one when it comes to group dynamics, a single mecha supported by other vehicles and a rag-tag team against the world in a grand adventure feel.

If you are looking for more fantasy oriented mecha, I would suggest panzer world galient, Aura battler dunbine, The Vision of escaflowne, Magic Knight Rayearth. And for more recent fantasy x mech anime I guess there is Knights and Magic but it's way lack luster compared to the ones previously mentioned.

Seriously I'm greatly disappointed how this general can only parrot "getter robo" or "eva's jelly oh" every time some one asks for mecha recs.
>>
>>65155678
Thanks, I'm 5 episodes into Votoms and it's pretty decent. Lots of good ideas to mine. Will bookmark those for later viewing. I doubt I'll be able to watch more than 20 episodes in a series just for research purposes, but hey, we'll see.
>>
>>65155678
>"don't listen to this stupid douche" he says as recommends two of the exact same animes I recommended
dumb tominofag
>>
>>65155747 <- Good post.
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>>65155442
>Satania
You're good people anon
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>>65155859
That's Skerples.
>>
>>65155747
>>65155678
Any specific mecha that are more about giant monster-vs.-mecha instead of mecha-vs.-mecha?
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>>65155896
FUCK
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>>65155678
>>65155718
Question for you guys. I’m not really into anime or mecha. I think Tranzor Z and Robotech are my only touchstones.

What about OSR style gaming makes you want to adapt it to mecha? OSR is mostly about procedural dungeon crawls and exploration. Mecha media, in my limited experience, is big battles, interpersonal drama, and maybe a bit of conspiracy.
Battletech is wargaming but that’s not a milieu in discussion.

What gives? I’m genuinely curious.
>>
>>65155981
Mwahaha.
>>65155997
For me, it's the challenge of having two very different scales of operation going on at the same time. It's a chance to see classic monsters in a new light. It's an interesting conceit to build a world around.
OSR games also have high stakes and real risks. Fuck up a combat and people die. No safety net. Plus, the wargaming heritage of OSR games makes adapting them to mecha combat fairly easy.
Basically, the human-scale bit is for dungeon crawls and drama. The mecha-scale bit is for fighting and saving the world.

Plus giant robots are cool.
>>
>>65156089
Relevant vidya to get your brain juices fermenting:
https://www.powerhoof.com/regular-human-basketball/
>>
>>65156124
>Lifelike physics simulates over 4 human emotions

Delightful
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>>65155997
The mecha thing is pure OSR hipsterism.
>>
>>65156301
So is Skerples let him have this,
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>>65156124
I remember seeing a video about that game. Looks fun.
>>65156301
Entirely true. And? It's not like it's deleting your games or content?
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>>65156374
Well, it's bad. There's nothing about an old-school D&D game that recommends it to playing mecha.

You can even see the exact angle of how this came about. Mecha games are underplayed, especially for newer more modern gamers. So there are a lot of hipsters on the 'let's make a fucking MECHA game' train anyway and that's why you get *World games like this and shit like that. Then you get the OSR hipsters who have to see some sort of inherent ideal in the OSR rules over just admitting they like that style of game, and you get this abomination of trying to play a mecha game using OD&D.
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>>65156521
If I thought this would work better using Fate or Apocalypse World or something then I'd do that. It's not like I don't know about them or haven't run them.
And sure, maybe it'll be shit in practice... but it sure seems like it'd work from where I'm sitting.
>>
>>65156559
Ok buddy. Don't forget your sandalwood and bergamot Icelandic beard oil.
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>>65156559
There is a thread up right now for a system that handles mechas well. No need to reinvent the wheel.
>>65131603
>>
>>65156559
>>65156521
>>65156374
>>65156301
>>65155997
>>65156711


not any of the posters linked, but my 2 grains of salt, as Is aid it's really tangentially related, but the mechanical chassis on which OSR games have sprung is pretty well suited for emulating the mecha genre, just by swaping a few bolts and bits as >>65156089 put it.

Maybe it doesn't fit with the general fantasy trope which prevails in the OSR zeitgeist, but by no means should that mean this is OSR "hipsterism", maybe some people just want to use mechs instead of castles for domain play ya know? In the end if it's mechanically compatible and is inspired by the TSR games, it is OSR.
If you disagree with the last statement, then I guess you also dislike cyberpunk and space fantasy derived OSR games and at that point the only thing we can do is agree to disagree.

Also if it gives you some peace of mind, this is a small respite of the thread's common topics, and it will probably be gone by the next thread or two.
>>
>>65156711
Oh, thanks, will take a look.
Anyway, if I do ever write more content it'll pretty much be:
-monster descriptions
-some helpful tables for downtime
-session ideas and notes
-mech descriptions
So in theory you could bolt it on to any system.
>>
>>65156752
>but the mechanical chassis on which OSR games have sprung is pretty well suited for emulating the mecha genre
No it isn't.
>>
Why would you ever think that OSR games are a good fit for a Mecha game? Stop trying to shove everything into OSR. If you want to make new rules for new kinds of games, go fucking do that. Stop derailing the thread with your off-topic shit ideas.
>>
>>65156810
NAYRT /gdg/ is on day 17 of downtime i cant remember the last time it reached autosage
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>>65156810
>Stop derailing the thread with your off-topic shit ideas.
Thread's been extremely dead for the past few days.
Anyway, here's some on topic shit ideas. Thoughts? Complaints?
>>
>>65156844
/gdg/ is a relatively new thing in /tg/'s history, and /tg/ in general has always been shit at designing games.

This mecha thing is bizarre though. Do you really think if you got Gygax, Arneson & co and sat them down to design a mecha game they would stick with a core D&D ruleset? You have no detailed rules for tons of common gear and archetypes within that framework of stories, so you end up forcing this horrible pseudo-magic thing instead ("magic missile is just like a Scopedog's machine gun!!!!")

The whole thing seems like a reskin of Zak S's 'Look at this cool mecha game I'm running in PENDRAGON of all things' which was perhaps marginally less dumb for a certain type of hot-blooded mecha anime, but still a pretty stupid idea. The only reason I can see people fronting for it is 1) it's lazy 2) it gets them cred in the OSR community 3) it makes them feel creative, but none of those things gives it value.

No objection to mecha games at all, I'm a huge fan of the genre. But there's no way it fits in an old-school D&D ruleset as the best choice.
>>
>>65156885
>extremely dead
c >>65155375

We're not dead, we've stopped shitposting about Zak.
What you're feeling right now is like when you've just gotten off the highway and you think 40 mph on a normal road is slow.
>>
>>65156922
Fuck you I want to play muh dunbine/galient/god mazinger/luna varga inspired game.
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>>65156885
I like 2, 4, 5, 6 14. Choose one of 15 and 18 or combine them.
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>>65156922
>But there's no way it fits in an old-school D&D ruleset as the best choice.
True enough. It'd be awful to use the rulesset to emulate a series or a film. That's not the point though.
Without space combat, machine guns (or rapid fire at all), etc, the result will be somewhat different than traditional mecha media. I'm fine with that.
I mean, they were able to adjust OD&D for piracy, astral planecrawling, and gothic horror.
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>>65156957
Certainly looks like the point for this anon >>65156944 senpai
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>>65156955
Why 15 <-> 18, out of curiosity? They seem fairly different to me.
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>>65156922
>old-school D&D
What if I told you glog wasn't osr?
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>>65156993
It isn't. It also isn't much of a better fit as a core ruleset. Run Skerples' shittily-named mecha thing all you want, just don't expect me to say it's a good idea when you suggest it ITT.
>>
>>65156998
Someone teied running it and said it plays like shit a few threads back.
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>>65157004
Got a link?
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>>65157016
It's quarter 'til 1 AM on my end. If. I had the time to dig it up I'd have libked it when I mentioned it.
I bet there's a link to the right thread in the OP. ctrl f for it if it's worth the time to you.
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>>65157091
Closest I can find is >>64957305, so maybe you're misremembering?
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>>65157132
The alternative is that someone would have a criticism of a Skerples game, which is clearly impossible. He must be.
>>
>>65157212
At this very early stage I'd be delighted to have playtesting feedback, considering it's less of a game and more of a pile of ideas.
>>
>>65157132
>>64958191
>>
>>65157236
Indeed, important feedback on topics like 'one PC exists just to decide if the "mech" shoots magic missile or not' or 'take longer to describe everything so your players feel combat is more involved and complex than it actually is' is absolutely vital. That's good, critical stuff right there. Nobody could possibly tell whether these ideas were good or bad without extensive playtesting.
>>
>>65157290
Thanks! Yeah, that can be a problem with any game build around a certain type of combat (like ship-to-ship combat). I'll definitely work on ways to make every scenario play out differently.
>>
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>>65157236
>ideas
Dude, man whoa, what, what if we ... used the combat rules ... to resolves, like combat? Whoa.
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>>65157316
I am a visionary OSR designer, shush you.
I didn't mean /that/ idea specifically.
>>65157305
Now I know you're being silly, but idea 1 is definitely something that's worth thinking about. One PC per mech vs many PCs per mech is a core question, and one of the main problems with the first option is exactly what you've described.
As for the second... eh, it's a thing.
>>
>>65157331
I'm not being silly, I'm being sarcastic. Those ideas come directly from one of your FP articles and they are both terrible.
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>>65157331
>silly
Derisive, by my reckoning.
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What level are these characters?
Can we use the Deities & Demigods stats or are those too low?
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>>65157358
Looks like 8th level Fighting Men at least.
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>>65157362
Maybe 7th.
Prolly more like 10th.
>>
>>65157358
Fate doesn't work with D&D at all. You would need something where turns are resolved simultaneously and is heavily narrative. Coincidentally, FATE works decently and so does MURPGs diceless system, the one with Spiderman on the cover. The first lets you do all the bullshit without crunch, the second lets you have high powerlevels and a mana system which is a major aspect of the visual novel.
>>
Skerps, be honest... did you call it Flame Promenium just so you could eventually publish it as LotFP?
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>>65157414
Nope. Honestly, that didn't even occur to me on a conscious level. I was trying to riff off "Pacific Rim" a bit, and I liked the idea of using "Pomerium" as a sacred boundary.
>>
>>65157414
Also, what would the "Lo" even be? Legends of the Flame Pomerium? Liabilities of the Flame Pomerium?
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>>65156957
>Without space combat, machine guns (or rapid fire at all), etc, the result will be somewhat different than traditional mecha media. I'm fine with that.
eh there's plenty of OSR rules for stuff like machine guns if you know where to look, and space combat is honestly one of those things that should be mostly kept as a fluff thing rather than using dedicated rules unless absolutely necessary

>>65156922
honestly I'd say the problem is you clearly have no imagination whatsoever
>>
>>65157390
The bigger D&D issue is just scale.
A super-hero in D&D is worth like 10 men. Meanwhile, you get an off-handed comment that some Round Table didn't quality as "legendary" because he was only worth 10 normal knights, when his peers were worth 100. Ain't nowhere outside of 70s California where you can find some 100th Level characters running about.
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>>65157551
Do you have a source on the off-handed comment? Tristan can kill about three dozen knights single-handedly and he's the 2nd or 3rd best knight of Arthur's court. I don't think anybody kills hundreds.
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>>65157497
By your metric there's no reason to play anything but freeform roleplaying. Rules matter to a game and the OSR rules chassis and the mecha genre don't line up very well. Not even for shit like VOTOMS.
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>>65157584
In Fate? Camelot describes Bedivere as being worth about 10 men, to the big guys (Gawain, Lancelot, etc.) being 100. At the very least, their stats put them as about 40 times stronger/faster than a modern human, and the sword-beams can all clear armies. Not to mention you get shit like Gawain being 99% invincible in the sunlight, instead of just being a bit stronger like in the myths.

The only actual myths I know of where people clear out 100s are Irish and Indian shit, though. Some of the Chinese stuff maybe? And I think there's some Zoroastrian guy who does a bunch of crazy stuff. But I don't think even Achilles takes out 100 people.
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>>65157588
>By your metric there's no reason to play anything but freeform roleplaying. Rules matter to a game and the OSR rules chassis and the mecha genre don't line up very well. Not even for shit like VOTOMS.
that's just plain twisting my words around mate, I just happen to be one of those people who has no problem twisting a system around to fit my needs, one of my favorite OSR variants is Hideouts & Hoodlums, which does a very admirable job of translating Swords & Wizardry into a superhero RPG, and if the OSR chassis can handle superheros then I see no reason why it can't handle mecha

>>65157614
>The only actual myths I know of where people clear out 100s are Irish and Indian shit, though. Some of the Chinese stuff maybe? And I think there's some Zoroastrian guy who does a bunch of crazy stuff. But I don't think even Achilles takes out 100 people.
well Samson killed 1000 Philistines using only the jaw of an ass
>>
>>65151477
What does SWCL stand for?
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>>65157708
swords & wizardry continual light edition
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>>65156922
>This mecha thing is bizarre though. Do you really think if you got Gygax, Arneson & co and sat them down to design a mecha game they would stick with a core D&D ruleset?
Not exactly, but I wouldn't be surprised either – after all, when Gygax and Arneson sat down to design a medieval fantasy game they based the way they handled personal armor on a set of naval combat rules.

Realistically, though, they would probably skip the intermediate step and adapt the naval combat rules directly to the purpose of piloting giant robots.
>>
>>65157451
"Largebots", obviously.
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>>65158177
Do we have those old naval combat rules? Because THAT sounds worth bothering with.
>>
How would you genocide a temple?
>>
>>65158286
"We" as in the community, yeah. You can read all about this stuff in Playing at the World.

I personally don't have a PDF or anything, sorry.
>>
>>65158286
>>65158688

Here let me spoonfeed you lazy youngsters.

https://thetrove.net/Books/Dungeons%20&%20Dragons/D&D%20Original%20Edition/Don't%20Give%20Up%20the%20Ship%20(2nd%20Edition).pdf
>>
I don’t care for steam punk or any punk other than cyber for that matter. The best way to do
Fantasy mecha is as giant gollum’s that are piloted by wizards. Palladium Books Rifts setting the bad guys from the Kingdom of magic have these. I like how the tops of the heads are open air (force field?)
>>
>>65158688

Playing at the World is scholarly and dry even for people who are very interested in this stuff. Everyone who is should read it but man I slogged through parts.
>>
>>65158909
Really? I mean, I know it's meant to be scholarly, but I didn't find it particularly dry, the parts I felt were hard going were mostly the ones I wasn't interested in (bunches of the system esoterica mostly). The parts about how California fandom has always been a cancerous festering shitpile cracked me up tb h



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