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File: Magic Primer v3 (+1).png (2.14 MB, 1401x1660)
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Self-recursion edition! ("Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield/your hand" effects)

>To make cards, download MSE for free from here:
http://magicseteditor.boards.net/
>OR
>Mobile users might have an easier time signing up here:
https://mtg.design/

>Stitch cards together with
http://old.photojoiner.net/

>Hi-Res MSE Templates
https://pastebin.com/2AFqrY68

>Mechanics doc (For the making of color pie appropriate cards)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE

>Color Pie mechanics
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2017-2017-06-05

>Read this before you post cards for the first time, or as a refresher for returning cardmakers
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM

>Design articles by Wizards
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR

>Primer: NWO and Redflagging
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/578926-primer-nwo-redflagging

>Q: Can there be a sixth color?
A: http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i

>Q: What's the difference between multicolor and hybrid?
A: http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C

>Q: What is precedence?
A: http://pastebin.com/pGxMLwc7

>Art sources
http://www.artstation.com/
https://cgsociety.org/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/

>/ccg/ sets (both completed and in-progress)
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj

OT: >>64480933
>>
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Had this one around for a while, want to see if I can finish it. Wondering if the stats should be changed, 2 toughness just seems too easy to kill for what I think would do best if it stayed on the battlefield. Or maybe it's best for it to die so it can come back again, IDK.
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>>64563206
>Self-recursion edition! ("Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield/your hand" effects)
Yee-haw

I need some effects that can be repeatable for Black at common, so no card advantage: returning cards, discarding, drawing cards, 2-for-1-ing, etc.
>>
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>>64564285
I was looking through your set a bit earlier.

>UR02
Giving the tokens Haste is pointless. I also don't see the point in the lord ability, since you don't have any Horse cards. Probably best to just replace Haste on the tokens with Trample.

>RC04
Remove Duel. Putting it here just weakens the meaning of Duel, since it goes from being "Whenever this creature attacks or blocks alone" to "Whenever a creature attacks or blocks alone". No, don't give the ability to the creature, that just has the same problem on top of looking ugly. It's perfectly fine for you to have a mechanic that works with Duel that doesn't have the ability word.

>MZ04
Why not "two times X +1/+1 counters"?

>card
This is something you could reliably do just about every turn. I'd make it return to hand only. And either make it cost 2B or give it "~ can't block."
>>
>>64564285
>>64564475
Oh yeah, and since you've been making changes to your set, I've moved your download link in the PasteBin to the "In-progress" section.
>>
>>64564528
Yeah, this is what I asked you for, seems like it got lost between threads dying.
>>64564475
>Horses
God point.
>MZ04
Because I wasn't sure the proper wording. Isn't "twice" the same as "two times"? Checking gatherer didn't realky help as such effects are scarce.
>Badge
>It's perfectly fine for you to have a mechanic that works with Duel that doesn't have the ability word.
Really? Naya's "5+ power matters" got a lot of flack because of this.
>Skeleton Duelist
Wouldn't this double whammy be too much of a nerf? The cost must stay at {1}{B}, so it'd either get "~ can't block" or got bumped down to 2/1 (or1/2).
>>
>>64564475
Did ypu change anything from the last time? Is it a part of a set?
>>
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Not sure about the wording on this, but I want it castable for its bestow cost, it'd be even better if it returned to the battlefield specifically enchanting a creature that damaged you.
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>>64565034
>Because I wasn't sure the proper wording. Isn't "twice" the same as "two times"? Checking gatherer didn't realky help as such effects are scarce.
I believe so. It's just that I think "two times X +1/+1 counters" is more clear, or at least reads better, than "twice X +1/+1 counters"

>Really? Naya's "5+ power matters" got a lot of flack because of this.
They also spread out the effects too far for an ability word to be of any use. Because ability words don't have any intrinsic rules text, the mechanics they're used on should all function as similarly as possible. The badge is a lot better than the problems Wizards had with Naya, but in the strictest sense, the Duel ability word should only be present on creatures, and only if the ability triggers whenever that creature attacks or blocks alone.

>Wouldn't this double whammy be too much of a nerf?
I don't think so, which is why I made the suggestion.
>The cost must stay at {1}{B}, so it'd either get "~ can't block" or got bumped down to 2/1 (or1/2).
I suppose 1B and 2/1 is fine.

>>64565060
>Did ypu change anything from the last time?
No.
>Is it a part of a set?
Sorta. It's more like half of a Duel Deck, focusing on Rogues. Here's another card that would be from the same "set".
>>
Not *self* recursion, but:

2BB Sorcery
Each player returns a creature card from their graveyard to the battlefield, then sacrifices two creatures.
>>
>>64565188
I can't say I'm a fan. I prefer Bestow to grant enchanted creature abilities of the bestowing creature.
>Whenever a creature deals combat damage to you, you may pay {3}{B}{B}. If you do, return ~ to the battlefield from your graveyard attached to that creature.
Since it's Black you already have a way to return it as s creature anyway and this way it's cleaner.
>>
>>64565312
Oh I remember this lion. IIRC you had problems with it because you didn't want Infiltrate to cost higher than normal cost.
I listened to your advice but then I got an idea for Mustang Catcher. What do you say, do you think I can get away with it at uncommon?
>>
>>64568926
I don't think you need horse tribal to justify a one-off horse token generator. It's good flavor.
>>
>>64570495
I rather meant that you can now discard a card to keep the token.
>>
>>64568926
>Oh I remember this lion. IIRC you had problems with it because you didn't want Infiltrate to cost higher than normal cost.
Yeah, obviously decided to give up on that. Do you have any opinion on it?

>I listened to your advice but then I got an idea for Mustang Catcher. What do you say, do you think I can get away with it at uncommon?
Sorry, no. Seems like an interesting idea though.
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I'm tempted to just leave off Bestow's reminder text for every card in this set.

>>64568516
How about this then?

>>64568926
I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to balance, but a 3/1 for 2 with trample and sort of haste seems strong.
>>
>>64572060
That guy gave you bad advice, how wording doesn't work. It's probably easiest to just do what you did before and cast it from the graveyard. Though I will agree that I really don't like seeing Bestow used like this.
>>
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Regarding keywords: I've thrown up a strawpoll on the options i got over the last 2 threads.
Check all you'd be okay with. https://www.strawpoll.me/17410766/

In the meantime, a Mini-GDS-esque challenge. Since core sets are monocolour focused, each colour needs to have a synergistic theme for limited outside of "goodstuff aggro".
So, your job is to:
>Pick a colour.
>Choose a theme.
>Make a few cards to evoke the theme
>Choose an accompanying reprint

For my submission, white has meek (low power matters), so i'll propose Red with Reckless (1 toughness matters)
>Why <=1 toughness and not <=2, isn't that a bit restrictive?
Mostly aesthetic, built from Rekindling Flames outward. When i made that card, it evoked the idea of jamming a deck full of ball lightnings and reanimating them for lethal.
Second, being "reckless" evokes the idea of putting everything into your offence at the detriment of your defence. And while 2 toughness may be considered reckless for things with 4 or more power, the majority of creatures, specifically aggro creatures are weaker and 2 toughness is generally reasonable. The restriction emphasises the flavour *in my opinion.
>Rekindling Flames is 3 mana resurrection in red, would that not be broken?
Trust me, I have *tried* to break it in modern, you need a hard nut draw to go off turn 3 and the deck otherwise bricks hard.
And yes, the interaction with the end of turn sacrifice is intentional.
>Why is everything 3 mana?
Coincidence. Mostly because printing a 2 mana 2/1 with haste is about as much of a support card as storm crow is to favouring winds.
>Or less?
Rekindling Flames can hit 0/0s. It's very niche, but if we ever get another red clone like Dack's Duplicate, it would be relevant. My personal design philosophy is to not babyproof cards and let the Johnny's run free.
>>
>>64572159
I was wondering if that wording would work, it's because it's not an aura with enchant creature unless it's cast for its bestow cost, right?

Also is there any particular reason you don't like Bestow used like this? I shifted it more to a double edged sword effect, maybe it could even become - 2/-1 or - 1/-1, but I like the idea of bestowing it to remove a small creature and then getting an OK creature since black already has some design in that space.
>>
>>64572166
Rekindled Flames isn't red. You're also putting the cart before the horse here, man. No skeleton has been made, no plan agreed upon. You JUST posted the first strawpoll about keywords. Starting the project before doing the planning is going to doom the whole thing to failure.
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>>64572344
>I was wondering if that wording would work, it's because it's not an aura with enchant creature unless it's cast for its bestow cost, right?
Bingo.

>Also is there any particular reason you don't like Bestow used like this?
I just always preferred the way Theros did it, where the Bestow creature gave its P/T and abilities to the enchanted creature. Sorry.
>>
>>64572166
What is up with you guys focusing everything around monocolor? I get that core sets generally don't do multicolor, but it's like you guys have no idea how to make cards naturally synergize without forcing a keyword. You don't have to copy Ravnica to do multicolor archetypes.
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>>64572166
What >>64572472 said. From what I've seen here, a big part of the reason sets don't get finished is because the designer didn't properly plan everything out beforehand, and when the issues from that get pointed out, the designer gives up because they feel like they'd have to do the entire thing over again. I'm up for collaborating on this core set, but we still have a lot to go through before we even start making cards.
>>
>>64572159
>how wording doesn't work
But I wasn't correcting the wording, I proposed a functional change. Maybe I should have made that explicit.
What I wanted to convey is that since Black has already creature reanimation, but it doesn't have enchantment reanimation, you don't really need the option to return it to the battlefield as a creature built into the card, but you want players to be able return it as enchantment.
And IMO paying upfront whole cost instead "{B} + cast/bestow cost" is clearer for the player.
>>64572060
>I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to balance, but a 3/1 for 2 with trample and sort of haste seems strong.
K, so the token gets exiled and you get only one per turn. I'll leave the car "nerfed".
>Essence Adapter.
Wouldn't
>Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 for each +1/+1 counter on ~.
be simpler? Although I don't think this kind of permanent pumping with mana is Blue. Blue creatures tend to grow because of triggered abilities that put counters on them whenever there's some kind of hand or library manipulation, the most popular is putting a +1/+1 counter on ~ whenever you draw a card. I suggest that you change the pump into a similar trigger.
>>64572344
>Also is there any particular reason you don't like Bestow used like this? I shifted it more to a double edged sword effect, maybe it could even become - 2/-1 or - 1/-1, but I like the idea of bestowing it to remove a small creature and then getting an OK creature since black already has some design in that space.
What >>64572484 said. Take a look at Hypnotic Siren that has quite unusual Bestow effect. She still gives flying and her P/T as bonus stats to the enchanted creature.
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>>64572769
>But I wasn't correcting the wording, I proposed a functional change. Maybe I should have made that explicit.
Your proposed change doesn't work because your wording doesn't work. Nor could it, since you'd have to hardcode the Bestow rules text, which is very wordy. It's easiest to allow a cast from the graveyard, since then it can be cast normally or with Bestow. Or hell, just return it to hand. That makes things even easier.
>>
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So I had an oldwalker eureka moment... owing to Guff's prankster nature, I've decided to theme him as "controlled chaos", UR representing the chaos and W the order that allows you to focus it. Do you think this guy would fly as a custom commander?
>>
>>64572472
>>64572621
>No skeleton has been made, no plan agreed upon.
I'll slow down, pick out the more general stuff, and get on the wider shit first. Thanks for pointing this out though. I haven't read through those Nut's and Bolts articles in a while, and probably need to go through them again.

The Mini-GDS, is mostly for engagement, though. What "themes" do you want for X colour seems generic enough of a question to ask this early, and since i haven't seen GDS anon in a few threads i thought it would get some noggins joggin. To that end, i think i'll stick to making unrelated GDS (like redesign this old set stuff) in future and use the opening to blogpost through the early stages. If that seems more reasonable.

>>64572472
>Rekindled Flames isn't red.
Unearth is a grixis mechanic and pheonixes have been reainimating themselves with haste for years. Red has also had an amount of graveyard interaction through "discard matters" shared with black and "spellslingiing" with blue.
Unrestricted reanimation is Black and white's thing, i think the level of restriction being "tribal sorcery -- Lightning Elemental" can justify the bend, personally.

Though, this did bring me to find that there's a card of the same name. So i am going to have to rename it and pack it away for now.
>>
>>64573335
Your opinion is wrong. Phoenixes are as much justification for reanimation in red as Hornet Queen is for flying in green. Here's the official word on the subject from the mechanical color pie 2017 article:

>Black is the best at bringing the dead back to life. It has no real restrictions on what it can bring back.
>White tends to reanimate smaller creatures, usually with a converted mana cost of 2 or less. It will occasionally reanimate a creature type that is mostly white (things like Angels or Humans).
>Red has Phoenixes.
>Green has creatures that can bring themselves back from the graveyard.
>Both black and white will sometimes reanimate a swath of creatures all at once.
>Blue, on rare occasion, can make a copy of a creature out of the graveyard.

Notice that red's ONLY mention with the ability is phoenixes, which are a flavor bend (and a huge one at that).
>>
>>64573044
>All this shuffling
Yikes.
>>64572925
Oh shit you're right.
> Or hell, just return it to hand. That makes things even easier.
Best solution.
>>64572166
>keywords
Shouldn't you all start with discussing which archetypes you want to support? Even the cleverest mechanic won't do much good if it doesn't fit.
From what I recall, in Limited they usually are:
WU - fliers + control
UB - hell if I know, most of signallers are just "set mechanic + card advantage"
BR - aggro/burn
RG - ramp stompy
GW - go wide
WB - lifesteal grind + tokens
UR - spells matter tempo
BG - recursion (Golgari) or counters
RW - attack wide and fast
GU - ramp, muh value
>>
>>64573814
I'm glad I'm not the only one wants dual-color archetypes. Though I think we could try to play with them a little so they're not just all repeats. I remember a WB enchantments archetype was done once, I want to say for Origins. GU is one I definitely think people will want to play with since "GU = counters" is such a meme here. Of course, the hard part is coming up with something that fits.
>>
>>64573814
The shuffling is there on purpose, kind of. I thought a commander that supports Psychogenic Probe and Psychic Surgery as potential wincons would be funny

Also his second ability can kinda be understood as Wild Research in reverse, for some extra Guff flavor
>>
Should I nerf this to 1 life lost?
BTW, MaRo in his podcast on direct damage (second in his "Designing [blank]" series) that Black returns to life loss and that direct damage in Black is rolled back. Well, I'll still use direct damage in monoB where it makes sense or saves space, I'll just slap lifelink on !Skeleton Archers.
>>64573814
>I'm glad I'm not the only one wants dual-color archetypes.
I didn't say I want them, I just pointed out that WotC recently started putting uncommon signallers into almost every set with notable exception of Ravnica. Seems to work for them as it's more than enough for traditional 8-people pod.

...ok, I do want them because I love this type of cycles, but that's my personal preference

If you want go wAckY I propose
WU tempo
UB artifacts
BR spells matter
RG enchantments
GW rock midrange
WB go wide, tokens
UR control
BG vigilant fliers
RW land destruction + tax prison
GU recursion
>>
>>64574984
Annoying shuffling does fit his flavour, but for the love of the Colour Pie, please do not make a card that makes 4 or more players shuffle 100 cards each Nth turn.
>>
>>64575645
>Should I nerf this to 1 life lost?
Shit, should be
>Should I bump it to 2 life lost?
Also I quoted wrong post, I wanted to quote this one: >>64574277
>>
>>64575683
Mind that the two abilities only make a single player shuffle at a time. Also contrast with something like Maralen.
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>>64575845
I encourage you to find a way to include randomness without shuffling the whole library.
How about revealing cards until you hit the matching card type and then put the unused revealed card at the bottom of the library? This way players only have to shuffle a fraction of their deck.
>>
>>64575919
The original ability was more Polymorph-y, but it got way too wordy. So I tried finding a three-way compromise between Polymorph, Oblation and Chaos Warp to represent all three colors, and for a miniscule chance of the opponent fetching the same permanent back for further jokeyness. Any decent idea for a similar effect that's not too wordy?
>>
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Removed ETB destruction, made token gen slower, changed Transform to upkeep, reduced cost of the card. No changes to the back.

>>64575645
>BTW, MaRo in his podcast on direct damage (second in his "Designing [blank]" series) that Black returns to life loss and that direct damage in Black is rolled back.
I'm curious, does he go into detail why they tried doing ping in B, and why they switched back?

>...ok, I do want them because I love this type of cycles, but that's my personal preference
Same.

>If you want go wAckY I propose
Eh, not feeling a lot of these. BG kinda feels more like a joke towards those guys who failed the test portion of the last GDS. I'll try to see if the GU idea can work though, since I was thinking about recursion in those colors earlier.

>card
I think you could do 2 life. Then it becomes a more situational Infectious Horror, though with the ability to trigger on block.
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>>64576258
>why they tried doing ping in B
He explains it in many answers to his Tumblr ask.
> why they switched back?
Wordier and players didn't like it, so it wasn't worth losing flavourful distinction from Red.
>>
>>64573335
>Unearth is a grixis mechanic
Alara is horrible precedence.
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>>64563206
>Self-recursion edition! ("Return this card from your graveyard to the battlefield/your hand" effects)
Well, technically...
>>
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Another revision done to push more Duel at common. Left one is before, right one is after.
>>
strange fake Saber
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>>64578376
No reason at all to name all the equipments anything. Just go for simple wording:
> First strike
> ~ gets +X/+X for each equipment attached to it, where X is that equipment's converted mana cost.
> RW, T, Sacrifice an Equipment attached to ~: ~ deals damage equal to the sacrifice Equipment's converted mana cost to target creature.
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>>64578429
It's a lore thing. Plus, the way it works means it can only have one Equipment attached to it due to the legendary rule, which I think is an interesting drawback. Though I was thinking of doubling the +X/+X because of that drawback.

But if none of this sounds good, I could relent and go with your idea.
>>
>>64579425
>card
Mechanically it feels VERY Naya-like. I don't know whether it fits DC/Marvel (who knows which one) Amazons, but if they're similar to Naya, then that's good.
>it can only have one Equipment attached to it
You can just spell it out and add what this anon >>64578429 said and it'll still have less wordy text than the original.
>>64579174
Is this from your white-and-black set with Recur?
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Any ideas for flavor text? I was thinking about something funny/silly for this card

>>64579425
>Is this from your white-and-black set with Recur?
Yes it is. Pic related is the last white slot on the set, after that I think I have only three slots left:
> Uncommon blue sorcery
> Uncommon black sorcery
> Rare artifact creature (preferably with recur)
I'm so close to finish this...
>>
>>64579825
"if it aint white it aint right"
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>>64579825
I still think the rune cards should be changed to have a free ETB effect, then a sac ability that needs mana for a bigger effect.
>>
>>64579745
>Amazons
DC. I'm making an Amazon tribal that's RGW (though centered on W rather than G) with an emphasis on Auras and Equipment, though obv. this card doesn't deal with those things. Anyway, glad you liked it!

>Lionheart
I'll prob. just go with that anon's suggestion then. And I might as well explain the lore: This character is from the Fate series, where historical and fictional characters appear as Servants, superhuman warriors with magic powers. Lionheart's power (well, one of them) is the ability to use anything he holds as though it were Excalibur (which is of course real in this setting), making them very powerful and able to release energy blasts (though blasting with a weak item, such as a stick, tends to destroy it).

This card >>64576258 is from the same setting, and even the same sub-series (strange fake).
>>
>>64580286
>lionheart as an animu
Fate was a mistake.
But seriously, flavour is no excuse for a shitty mechanic.
>>
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>>64580156
>I still think the rune cards should be changed to have a free ETB effect, then a sac ability that needs mana for a bigger effect
I'm also not 100% happy with the design of those cards, but they are supposed to be based on the Seal cycle (pic related), but with Recur, and that clumsy "0: Sacrifice ~." was the best way I found to do that

If it wasn't for the reference, I would make them similar to Dragon Clutch.
>>
>>64580156
>>64580378
How about?
>Sacrifice ~: Scry 1.
>>
>>64580364
lol, Lionheart is one of the better transitions. A lot of characters get genderswapped for no in-universe reason (Da Vinci, Nero, King Arthur, etc.) or get completely ludicrous redesigns (Thomas Edison, Elizabeth Bathory, Ivan the Terrible). Or both, like Attila the Hun. But if you have the right mindset, it can be pretty fun. I'm turning out to like the Fate series for a lot of the reason I like comics.

And yes, that's why I'm changing the mechanics of the card.

>>64580378
Then to hell with the Seals! Take the advice of the anon I just responded to, ditch the flavor and focus on making good cards.
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>>64580667
I wouldn't have any issue with re-imagining historic famous people if it wasn't done solely because it panders to jap virgin losers. Also the fact that if you google a less famous one, you get tons of weeaboo shitty fanart instead of actual person you wanted to know about.
>>64580378
Just make the effects ETB and treat it like sorceries with Flashback.
>>64580708
So many effects would turn into messy nightmare just to track them. This design could work in online or PC game, but in paper it's shit.
>>
>>64580840
I imagined people just putting the instants/sorceries behind the enchantment like they do for imprint cards.
>>
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I want some multicolor support without forcing it too much.

>>64572769
>'Nerfing' horse tokens
Should be fine, I think having the option of discarding the card was the breaking point.
>Essence Adapter
Changed Essence Adapter's activated ability to
>Enchanted creatures gets +1/+1 for each +1/+1 counter on ~.
>Blue getting pump
Sphinx of Magosi gets it with card draw, Monostrosity and Adapt are in blue. That's enough to justify a straightforward manasink creature in blue for me.
>>
>>64580754
While I don't know whether this would be balanced or lead to healthy gameplay, I do appreciate how you mixed old and modern MtG design: respectively not untapping during your untap step and soft land destruction.
>>
>>64580858
Hello, my name is Firebreathing and I'm going to make your life a shitshow.
Also players WILL confuse effects that expire at the end of turn because they last "until end of turn", and effects that end because a triggered ability "at the beginning of the end step" makes the effect cease to be.
>>64580860
>Blue getting pump
I don't like it, but instead of saying "no", I'll try to propose something that might convince you.
>{3}{U}: Add a +1/+1 counter on ~ for each card in your hand.
It is just mana->boost type of pump, but nobody will deny this is Blue.
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>>64580976
>Hello, my name is Firebreathing and I'm going to make your life a shitshow.
ever heard of a die?????????????????????????
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>>64563206
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>>64563585
seems fine
>>64576258
making all the Jacks 5/5 as well seems too powerful, maybe just give them flying or +1/+1.
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>>64579825
"So holy things are made of calcium?"
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>>64580976
>{3}{U}: Add a +1/+1 counter on ~ for each card in your hand.
While I like the idea, and will keep it around as a possibility, I don't see any problem with the simpler solution. I've also considered some variety of revealing cards from your hand, discard, or draw replacement effects.

>>64581172
This is so cool but also screws over a lot of other spells. I guess it primarily matters how else exile is used in the set.
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>>64581172
Ugh, I really want the Jacks and the Demon to be the same. I'll try a few more ideas. If they don't pan out, I'll nerf the stats of the tokens.
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>>64581520
OK, fuck it. I couldn't get the 5/5 army to work out.
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Some designs I farted out recently. Mostly simple twists on existing cards, but I'm interested if any of these are too outlandish (namely spirit guide).

Also, does anybody have some vintage cube-worthy designs? I'm curious to put some custom stuff into practice.
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>>64582087
>Celestial Spirit Guide
Looks fine. Maybe make it tap a white creature if it causes issues, but I don't think it needs that.
>Draconic Tutor
Unsure if this card is weak or the perfect tutor spell for a deck that doesn't care if they are discarding cards to their graveyard.
>Fall From Grace
Fine
>Instill Suspicion
Love it and it's flavorful
>Paradigm Shift
I may be blinded by playing against too many turbofog decks in standard but I hate this card.
>Peace of Mind
Fine
>Supplant From The Skies
This is fun, I want to see the moments this is used to give the caster the token off a fizzled spell.
>Taste the Forbidden
Fine, does it not untap on purpose?
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>>64582395
>Draconic Tutor
I'm slightly worried that it might be too stupid with Dredge. Might push it up a generic and make it only discard one instead (although if I only use it in cube then it's probably fine as is).
>Instill Suspicion
Kinda surprised the flavor got across, to be honest. Thanks.
>Paradigm Shift
Looking at it again, it probably needs to cost eight. I was looking at Reins of Power for inspiration and probably forgot how good permanently stealing stuff is.
>Supplant
I had the self-counter scenario in mind, which is why I didn't make the token too much of an upgrade from Swan Song. That said, I should probably make it rare to match, switch it to a 3/2 flying, and/or only have it target spells you don't control.
>Taste the Forbidden
It doesn't untap as a trade-off for costing two mana. I was considering making it instant-speed, but I want a second opinion before I try that.
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>>64583137
>Supplant
I don't think you should worry about the self counter scenario unless it becomes an extremely reliable 2/3 flyer for U. But it is a strong card in Enigma Drakes or Storm-ish sort of decks.
>Taste the Forbidden
That's probably a good trade off for it only costing 2. Instant speed gives it too much utility, but might be worth bumping up the cost or giving it a downside.

>>64581832
Making all the tokens have flying or making them all 5/5 is probably good, just not both. It'd be easy enough to stall out a bunch of 5/5s on the ground until Jack had to transform itself. Though I'm completely unaware of the source material so I don't know exactly what you're prioritizing to fit the flavor.
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>>64582087
>Celestial Spirit Guide
>Tap an untapped creature you control and exile ~ from your hand: [...]
Not W.

>Draconic Tutor
What's Draconic about it? Anyway, I want to say it might be too good, since it could easily fetch you combo pieces in the early game when you still have a bunch of cards in hand.

>Fall From Grace
Lowercase "From". Should be WU or mU.

>Instill Suspicion
Eh, I'd rather up the cost and just do both effects rather than give a choice.

>Paradigm Shift
Name in use. Permanent Reins of Power? Eh, guess that works.

>Peace of Mind
Seems OK. Though I think it should be "each gain hexproof"

>Supplant From The Skies
Lowercase "From" and "The". Not a fan of a broader Swan Song, especially at a lower rarity. Up to rare, probably up cost to 1U. And square the P/T.

>Taste the Forbidden
Why rare? Should untap the creature.
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>>64583480
>Making all the tokens have flying or making them all 5/5 is probably good, just not both. It'd be easy enough to stall out a bunch of 5/5s on the ground until Jack had to transform itself. Though I'm completely unaware of the source material so I don't know exactly what you're prioritizing to fit the flavor.
In that case, I'll try just making them 5/5's without Flying (though they'd still retain Deathtouch).

Idea behind the card is that it's based on the Fate/strange fake version of Jack the Ripper, which is basically the personification of the mystery of Jack, hence why the front is an enchantment rather than a creature (if you're wondering, the actual Jack in the picture is the watch, the boy is his master). He has two Noble Phantasms, special magical abilities, one that creates clones of himself that can operate independently, another that can transform him into a demon. He can also combine these two abilities to create a clone army he can then turn into a demon army. These inspired making tokens and pumping them up, but I fudged a lot of the details due to how complicated his abilities would actually be to represent in Magic.
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>>64583481
Historically, black has seen its fair share of conditional control magic effects. See Enslave, Mark of the Oni, New Blood, Captivating Vampire, Ritual of the Machine, Connive, and Olivia Voldaren. Hell, Connive was just printed in GRN.
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>>64583852
>Enslave
Planar Chaos.
>Mark of the Oni
About 14 years old now. Beyond that, it requires you to have a Demon, which could be given flavor justification like Vamps (see below).
>Ritual of the Machine
Over 20 years old.
>Connive
A hybrid card for the color combo that shares the fewest mechanics.

>Captivating Vampire
>New Blood
>Olivia Voldaren
Sometimes creature types are allowed to bend the pie for flavor. Famous example being Phoenixes.

Maybe if it did something with Vamps or Demons, but I can't really tell what the flavor is supposed to be anyway.
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OK, last one for tonight. Pale Rider, infects people with disease, then when they die, it can resurrect and control them.
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Have any of you ever actually played with the cards you (or others) designed?
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>>64584029
From the mechanical color pie article:

>Blue is the main color to gain control of other players' permanents. It can steal any type of permanent but most often steals creatures. Black is allowed to steal things infrequently.

Notice zero mention of vampires or demons being a prerequisite requirement.
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>>64586113
I've played constructed on cockatrice using Ceanna cards and a few other sets with friends. And the reason I started making a set myself is specifically to have something to print and play cube with.
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>>64585359
Trample feels off. I would rather go for something like Vigilance, which is often associated with angels. The point is that white is the color that least gets trample, if it ever gets it at all.

On modern, we have only a handful of cards that get trample only from white:
>Akroma, Angel of Wrath
>Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
Both only get trample because they are "let's stick a bunch of keywords on this guy!"

>Bringer of the White Dawn
Part of a cycle where all cards have trample

>Moorish Cavalry
Future sight fuckery. Originally from Arabian Nights. Barely a precedent

>Thraben Militia (transformed from Thraben Sentry)
Fits well flavor-wise, and even though i'm not 100% keen on transform design, as far as I know transformed cards do get to go a bit out of the regular way

>Mirror-Sigil Sergeant
The only real trample guy in white on all modern. Though I think the fact it is a Rhino plays a big part on this
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>>64587505
Did you mix custom sets or official with custom? How'd it play out?
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>>64587625
A mix of custom sets with MTG Origins and whatever else was in standard. The only set I clearly remember is Ceanna because three people in my playgroup were hard up for pirates and the vehicle mechanic. The normal play went smoothly, but I've realized a lot of magic players really don't understand the rules very well.

I'd definitely write up a rulings document for my cards, or copy paste the applicable rulings for existing card effects.
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>>64586113
>Have any of you ever actually played with the cards you (or others) designed?
Colorfuck anon here.

Yes, I have, but that was a long time ago (10+ years)

When I first started designing cards I was into designing single decks with their own synergy, based on the pre-constructed decks I would usually buy at that time (60 cards decks, 2 rare cards, 13 uncommon cards, the rest all commons). Using this pattern, I created a few decks. I remember them well (though I might have mixed the order of creation):
> RG aggro deck where creatures would get buffed if they had one or more +1/+1 counters on them
> monoR aggro deck, Mercenary tribal
> monoU deck, bounce synergy
> WG deck, creatures would get bonus if enchanted
> UB deck, cards that would have an effect that would be triggered when they went to the graveyard from anywhere. It later became the core mechanic for my Colorfuck set, but eventually I replaced it with Recur (>>64577895)
I remember playing with these decks one against the other with a friend of mine. I think around that time, I also played with a cousin of mine, and I think at one point we would each design our own decks then play against each other (which was interesting because you never knew what you would face). I have also played using these against real pre-constructed decks (I remember playing the monoR Mercenary deck against my friend's Azorious deck)

I also intend to playtest my colorfuck set at sometime around the end of February or first half of March. I think I will make a draft with 6~8 players (me included). I originally wanted a pre-release model (6 boosters, build your deck with them), but that would takes twice as many cards, making it too expensive for the cheap bastard I am
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>>64587284
The most recent capture cards in B involve Vamps, besides Connive, which I don't find convincing. Don't bring up cards to support your case then ignore them a minute later when they get inconvenient.
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>>64588314
>The most recent capture cards in B involve Vamps
Not him, but creature types are flavor. I mean, Vamps were freaking white not so long ago...

PS: Enslave has nothing to do with vamps
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>>64585359
Only the first keyword ability should be capitalised.
Vigilance or first strike would be better fit than trample here.
That aside, this is a bombastic card, I like it very much.
>>64584109
Dunno about the art but you conveyed idea of a Corpse Snatcher very well.
>>64586113
I like the cards (except flying in monoGreen and confusing text in Equilibrium, also I dislike Heirene but for personal reason), but I could barely read them, please use bigger resolution next time.
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>>64588499
>Not him, but creature types are flavor.
And that's why Vamps can gain capture creatures, for the same reason that Phoenixes can recur despite being in a color that doesn't do much recursion. If the anon wants to do capture in B, he'll have to use Vamps.

>Enslave
Again, Planar Chaos.
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I fixed the formatting, but I kept the sacrificing as a triggered ability specifically to make it more difficult for both players to manipulate.
Also, am I right in thinking that multiple instances wouldn't stack, and would still only give you one more turn?
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>>64589554
>616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object’s controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order (see rule 101.4).

>616.1d Any of the applicable replacement and/or prevention effects may be chosen.

>616.1e Once the chosen effect has been applied, this process is repeated (taking into account only replacement or prevention effects that would now be applicable) until there are no more left to apply.

Seems like they'd be sacrificed one at a time.

Am I supposed to be able to play it on the second turn for a cost of just one land?
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>>64586113
I have a friend group that plays with a cube and we started off by making remodeled versions of cards we couldn't afford, then we just started making our own ideas and shaping the cube in areas where its lacking. It's really fun tbqh
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>>64589698
Yeah. It's the flavor of "How much would you pay for another day?". Play it early and the cost is low. Play it when you need it and it'll cost you much more.

Maybe I should make it legendary, or have the sacrifices be an ETB because having multiple instances on the field translate to multiple turns of loss immunity is just too easy to abuse.
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>>64589554
First, the low CMC makes it more than a bit overpowered - it allows someone to play it on T2 for cheap (just a Jar if you happen to have Dimir Aqueduct), even assuming they don't cheat it out through one of any number of enchantment recursion.
Sacrificing a finite number of (nontoken) permanents as an additional ETB cost would make it more balanced, and allow for a higher mana cost without making the sacrifice cost harder to balance.

Second, you could make it more intuitive by changing its wording to something like
>Whenever you would lose the game, you may instead exile ~. If you do, you cannot lose the game until the end of your next turn.
Removing the static ability entirely cuts out the possibility of using Stifle to get repeated turns, and exiling it makes it a lot harder to recurse it for a similar effect.
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>>64588814
>If the anon wants to do capture in B, he'll have to use Vamps
>he'll have to use Vamps
>he'll have to
That not how this works, anon. First of all, we need to make a clear divider between what is colorpie and what is flavor. Colorpie is what a color can (or cannot) do. Flavor is what it should be doing and why. Vampires might be an interesting flavor to justify why black is gaining control of a creature, but flavor CANNOT override colorpie. It can only bend a bit, as long as it is not Hornet Stinging

Now, if black has gain control cards, that means black can get that. Maybe it is not a primary thing on black, and maybe black is not the primary color to get that, but black CAN do that. Whether it is vampires, demons, horrors, rabbits, whatever, that is up to flavor. A point I think you are getting stuck at is that usually, effects that are not supposed to be common on a color are often associated with a specific flavor. Red, dragons and flying, for example. Everyone will tell you that "red gets flying on dragons". But we also have Phoenixes with flying, as well as cards like:
> Chandra's Spitfire (Elemental)
> Chaos Imps (Imp)
> Conquering Manticore (Manticore)
> Falkenrath Marauders (Vampire)
> Goblin Sky Raider (Goblin)
> Goldnight Castigator (Angel)
etc

That is all only possible because red CAN get flying. It not much of a red thing, so it only get occasionally, but it DOES get it. Now, back the topic at hand, if black DOES get gain control, whether it is related to vampires or not, it is merely a situational flavor thing. What about a set that doesn't have vampires? It means black loses part of its color pie because of that?

For instance, there is a card on New Phyrexia that gains control of a creature and it not related to vampires (it is called Enslave)
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>>64589937
I didn't realize you could tag triggers onto state-based effects like game loss. And exiling is a much better idea in general.

Okay, how's this?
>Legendary
>ETB cost
>no static
>exiles
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>>64590223
I may have been mistaken - I think you might need to pull some phrasing like Stunning Reversal where you need to exile it in response to whatever would cause lethal damage instead of trying to respond to actually losing the game.

>>64590183
>>64588814
While strictly speaking not capture, there's also destroy-and-reanimate effects - and some cards have both at the same time.
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>>64590223
>>64590280
Of course, that isn't a very fleshed-out section of the rules - so upon second review, it's probably just that you just can't *make any choices* while state-based actions are pending, so a forced activation like pic related would work just as well (and, since you made the enchantment Legendary, wouldn't run into the stacking rules unless you had multiple different sources at the same time)
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so what's the point of this general? what do you all use the cards for? I want to contribute but I don't want to fuck up and look like a retard
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>>64590486
Some people do it just for fun, some people play with the cards. I know once I'm happy with my set I'll print them out on sticker paper and make a fully proxy cube. You can do the same with Cockatrice easily.

>>64590223
>>64590369
The wording seems solid and I like the ETB sac more.
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>>64590486
>so what's the point of this general?
We make fake MtG cards for fake MtG sets, then spend an eternity debating them

>what do you all use the cards for?
See above

>I want to contribute but I don't want to fuck up and look like a retard
Pretty much the main advice you need is: check your references. If are thinking about making a card, check on http://gatherer.wizards.com (or any other website) for cards with similar effects. That way, you can be more objective about:
> What colors can get such effect (colorpie)
> Mana cost of effects
> Wording (we take wording very seriously!)
If you have done this, you are good to post.
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>>64590183
>but black CAN do that
With Vampires, yes.

>But we also have Phoenixes with flying
No, don't talk about Flying, talk about recursion, because that's what I brought up. Explain how it's not the flavor of Phoenixes that bends the color pie to allow for self-recurring creatures in R. Go on, do it.

>black DOES get gain control, whether it is related to vampires or not, it is merely a situational flavor thing
OK, so besides Connive, you're just going to happily ignore that the last three B cards that don't require U that could steal creatures were New Blood (which requires you to have a Vampire and turns the creature into a Vampire), Olivia Voldaren (which is a Vampire that turns creatures into Vampires then allows you to gain control of them) and Captivating Vampire (which is a Vampire that requires you to have Vampires and turns the stolen creature into a Vampire)? You think it's, what, coincidence? It's just coincidence that the Vampires, creatures which are commonly portrayed with the ability to infect others with vampirism and turn them over to their own side are the ones that enable creature steal in B, the color were they mostly show up? I'm sorry, this doesn't strike me as a coincidence, this strikes me as a deliberate trend.

>For instance, there is a card on New Phyrexia that gains control of a creature and it not related to vampires (it is called Enslave)
OK, first, the reason I kept saying Planar Chaos is because that card was originally printed in Planar Chaos, which messed with the color pie quite a bit. Second, New Phyrexia also messed with the color pie quite a bit. You should be very careful when citing cards from either of those sets (or the blocks they're from) because they both make for very poor precedence. I have no reason to take Enslave as precedence for B having unconditional Mind Control because it's from a set riddled with color pie bending. Unless you want to try to explain how stuff like Venarian Glimmer is in-color.
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Okay, I think this might be good
>multiple instances aren't a thing
>recursion still triggers the cost
>loss trigger in line with existing cards
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>>64590581
> Mana cost of effects
what should I be aiming for with this? mana's value changes quite a lot over the years
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>>64590486
Some people actually print the cards for physical play, some do Cockatrice, a lot of us just do it for fun and have no intention of ever actually playing with them. It's just my hobby. And don't worry about looking stupid, everyone does at first. Just speak honestly and accept criticism.
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>>64590607
Not him, but it's usually best to go by the most recent cards WotC has printed (use Gatherer or Scryfall to look up cards). Usually everything within the last five to ten years should be good, though more recent stuff is better. That said, WotC sometimes screws up, so don't think that suddenly the new "fair" price for a Lightning Bolt is 3 because they made Open Fire. As you said, costs change quite a bit.

Just keep at it and eventually you'll develop an instinct for it, and you'll be able to create fair prices for effects off the top of your head. Just don't be surprised if you misjudge costs by a lot when you start out. But that's perfectly fine, it happens to everyone.
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>>64590589
>Explain how it's not the flavor of Phoenixes that bends the color pie to allow for self-recurring creatures in R. Go on, do it.
Not him. The flavor does justify that bend, but it couldn't unless the effect was in-color already. Reanimation is secondary in red according to Maro, and not always limited to phoenixes. See Feldon.
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>>64590673
I didn't realize Feldon could recur himself as the Phoenixes do. Oh wait, he can't, and that's a bad example.
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>>64590611
well heres a few I did for a cube with my friends. some of them are pretty shit but I'm quite happy with most of them. City of Hate I'm pretty happy with, which I made as a sidegrade to city of brass. Blade of atonement was made as a replacement to trusty machete, which was a dead card in the cube. Theres more which I'll post in a bit but editing is kind of a pain on this machine
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>>64590589
I think you're writing off Connive too much, as a modern hybrid card it should work as a mono blue or mono black card. Also while not part of the modern color pie White had access to creature control effects at some point and it fits within white flavorfully even if not mechanically.
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>>64590690
Nice goalpost shifting. The discussion was on creature recursion in red. No stipulation of self-recursion was ever discussed. Feldon recurs creatures. Feldon is red.
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>>64590589
>With Vampires, yes
With something else, also yes

>>64590589
>talk about recursion, because that's what I brought up
>Explain how it's not the flavor of Phoenixes that bends the color pie to allow for self-recurring creatures in R
>Go on, do it
Pyrewild Shaman, and both versions of Squee. All goblins, none phoenix, all recursive

>OK, so besides Connive, you're just going to happily ignore
Which you happily ignore, though

>last three B cards that don't require U that could steal creatures
>You think it's, what, coincidence?
I'm not saying vampires can't do it. It is just not a restriction. I agree it is a good flavor for doing it, and no, it is not a coincidence, because again, the flavor matches well. The point you are not getting (and this goes beyond gaining control and vampires) is that creature type is ONLY FLAVOR, and flavor cannot override colorpie. Yes, most flying red creatures are dragons, most recursive red creatures are phoenix, and maybe most gain control on black are related to vampires. But all of these are only possible because these colors CAN get those effects. WotC tends (and we should also) put those on specific flavors, to make a more smooth design, but that is just a rule of thumb

>the reason I kept saying Planar Chaos is because that card was originally printed in Planar Chaos
Reprinting a card on a black border means WotC is officially vouching for that card on that context. So for all that it matters, Enslave latest (real) version was on New Phyrexia. So at that moment, it was still on black's color pie. Notice that this is after the last time Captivating Vampire on a real set, and just a few sets before Olivia Voldaren (I'm not taking in consideration promotional stuff like commander sets, dual decks and etc)

>I have no reason to take Enslave as precedence for B having unconditional Mind Control because it's from a set riddled with color pie bending
Chaos Planar is indeed from a weird block, but again, reprint
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>>64590739
now onto the less good cards
annihilation has played decently well despite my doubts about it, I might remove its ability to destroy lands but it hasn't caused too much havoc in the cube matches. death pulse is probably getting nerfed because it flipped a game around really hard with the player damage part of it, along with it just being too good on its own. Pyramid agent is in a weird spot and is probably going to get axed or completely redesigned. I'de like to know what everyone here thinks of these though.
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>>64590739
>>64590890
Respectfully, most of these are awful

>Blade of Atonement
"If you have Attribution" doesn't mean much. The proper wording should be:
> If you have one or more Attrition counters, equipped creature has lifelink.

>City of Hate
OK

>Revelation
Anything below 3 CMC for this is VERY dangerous. A 1 mana tutor that only deals damage on the beginning of the next mana is a NO GO

>Annihilation
Black should never get rid of enchantments, and probably not artifacts as well. Please revise it considering that. Also, the mana cost is still quite bushed, even if the drawback. This should at least cost 2 mana.

>Death Pulse
OK I guess (at least compared to the others from this post)

>Pyramid Agent
Without any card interaction, this guy is a 1/2 double strike life link for 1 mana. It is already quite pushed that way. If you have any additional attrition, this guy is a rampage fucker (plus the fact that he totally takes away the drawback of attrition). You probably should also give this guy a race (Human, Zombie, whatever)

Also, again, should be:
>Pyramid Agent's power is equal the number of Attrition counters on you/you have.

Finally, regarding all cards with exception of the first 2: don't expect people to magically figure out what Attrition N is. Please put a reminder text on each card using it
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>>64591071
Thanks for the input. I'll adjust accordingly.
>Black should never get rid of enchantments, and probably not artifacts as well.
I never really noticed this until I thought about it, I normally play in BW so I was pretty used to getting rid of just about everything on the board. I'm looking at the color pie mechanics chart right now and I'm wondering, does secondary/tertiary effects mean they should cost more or be valued higher on their corresponding color?
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>>64591239
>Thanks for the input
Np

>I never really noticed this until I thought about it, I normally play in BW
The thing is that White can destroy artifacts and enchantments unconditionally, while Black can destroy creatures, planeswalkers and lands unconditionally. Both together can destroy anything (good ol' Vindicate). But separated, you should mind the colorpie

>does secondary/tertiary effects mean they should cost more or be valued higher on their corresponding color
Not exactly/necessary. It means they should be using more sparsely and carefully

>Sgt Garrison
I think the wording is not correct, but I could be wrong. Also, creatures normally have at least 1 race and 1 class (it is OK to have 2 classes as in "Cleric Knight")

>Peacekeeper Officer
This effect could be on white, but it is more frequent on blue. Perhaps a valid replacement would be:
> When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
This would make it feel more white

>Morgan the Faithful
Last ability shouldn't be on a monowhite card. That ability is primary on red, secondary on black, and basically non-existent on the other colors. One thing you could do to replace it is the following:
> At the beginning of each player's upkeep, Morgan the Faifhtul deals 2 damage to each nonwhite creature.
That is a bit more into the colorpie, but still, this kind of effect isn't much white. Also, notice that damage should ALWAYS have a source, and that the proper wording is:
>At the beginning of each player's upkeep
>each creature you don't control
Also, since you are already very close, you could simply base this guy off Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and simply go for -2/-2 instead.
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>>64591490
>I think the wording is not correct, but I could be wrong. Also, creatures normally have at least 1 race and 1 class (it is OK to have 2 classes as in "Cleric Knight")
It probably is, I didn't think it looked right either.
>Also, since you are already very close, you could simply base this guy off Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite and simply go for -2/-2 instead.
I made this card based on elesh norn, and had the plan to weaken its passive effect and have it more combat oriented. In practice, the effect is significantly weaker than expected and just about all the time I'de rather have elesh norn in play. I might just make it an elesh norn clone and be done with it, but I'll see if I can salvage it another way.

Once again I appreciate that you took time to go over these, I'll tune them up and post updated versions later.
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>>64591650
I think I found what was wrong with garrison's wording. The amount of damage should be specified and it should be "any number of creatures". So it would be "Any amount of damage dealt to any number of creatures you control may be redirected to Sgt Garrison"
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>>64590794
I'm cynical. I honestly think Wizards didn't have a good idea that was truly U/B for the slot, so they bent the rules a bit, which is something they've admitted to doing in the past.

Though honestly, I should've just argued with some of the other hybrid cards.
Repudiate: mG hasn't countered abilities since Ouphe Vandals in 2004, and even then only artifact abilities.
Incubation: When was the last time U has even done this? I can't even find this ability in any mU card.
Flower: Land tutor in W? OK, it can search for Plains, but Forests? You can't even use the excuse of tutoring for any basic land card, unless you go with stuff like Settle the Wreckage or Path to Exile.

>>64590813
I thought I made it clear I was referring to self-recursion with the Phoenixes, but I guess not. But even going with the broader mechanic of R recurring any creature card through any method, what do you have?

Feldon, Squee, and the Phoenixes are all flavor justifications, so those don't make a mechanical precedence (which is what I assumed you were referring to when you said "the effect was in-color already", justification that doesn't rely on flavor).
Alesha needs W or B.
Pyrewild Shaman was made to encourage a set mechanic, and I don't give much credence to set mechanics because then you get weird stuff like U handing out +1/+1 counters or causing lifeloss, but for the sake of the argument let's count it. And it's for this reason I'm not going to count recursion through set keywords like Embalm or Unearth.
Sandstorm Eidolon, but that's from a cycle of recursion creatures made to encourage the multicolor theme of the set.
Search for Survivors isn't Modern.
And neither is Zodiac Dragon.

OK, so as far as mechanical justification goes, we have one card, Pyrewild Shaman. Were there any that I missed?
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>>64590832
>>64592062

>>64590832
>Pyrewild Shaman, and both versions of Squee. All goblins, none phoenix, all recursive
I just went through these. And even given the Shaman, which again I find dubious, that's all of one card.

>Which you happily ignore, though
Except I have good reason to. Check my first response.

>the flavor matches well
But that's the problem. It only comes through because of the flavor. Without the flavor, you don't have anything to go on.

>But all of these are only possible because these colors CAN get those effects.
All you have for this effect in mB is Connive, a dubious hybrid card next to a few other dubious hybrid cards. Oh, and Enslave, which is from two sets with notoriously poor precedence.

>Reprinting a card on a black border means WotC is officially vouching for that card on that context.
So Desert Twister justifies mG permanent destruction? What about Faithless Looting? It's the one mR card that does "draw, then discard" instead of "discard, then draw" that doesn't either discard at random or have you discard your entire hand later (eg. Avaricious Dragon). It's been reprinted a bunch, and yet remains the lone "draw, then discard" mR card.

>Chaos Planar is indeed from a weird block, but again, reprint
Again, New Phyrexia. Unless you want to explain to me how W, U, R, and G all have access to lifeloss, or how they can pay life to substitute for mana costs.
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>>64590832
>>64592231
>I just went through these. And even given the Shaman, which again I find dubious, that's all of one card.
Whoops, meant to say
>that's all of one card that doesn't have a flavor justification.
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How much life would Healing Salve have to provide to be on par with Ancestral Recall?
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>>64592330
10-13
ancestral recall is pretty ridiculous
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>>64592330
Given how little use White can usually make of lifegain, even 33 life would be pretty damn flimsy in certain formats.

In practice, you'd probably need to "flatten" the curve around Lightning Bolt so that blue's boon is a U-cost Mana Leak, and White's is "create 3 1/1 human soldier tokens" or some such.
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>>64592446
I was thinking about it in the context of vintage cube, for the sake of giving nonblue colors some power. In this case I'm not really interested in downgrading Recall because generally people like playing with power, at least in limited. So for example:

W - You gain twelve life (and?/)or prevent the next twelve damage from any target.
B - Add BBBB.
R - Deal four damage divided as you choose among any number of targets.
G - Target creature gets +5/+5 and trample until end of turn.
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Are these relatively similar in power level?
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>>64592814
>damage to creatures you control is not cleared between turns
that sounds like a bitch to track but it seems pretty neat.
being able to destroy lands might be a bit much
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>>64593835
Assuming they're all intended to be waay above curve but not batshit insane, here's my thoughts:
Karst
>This makes every single creature you own turn into an infinitely respawning flying blocker, as long as your opponent doesn't have a non-destruction boardwipe.
>Also, it's useful for an absolutely OBSCENE number of "dies" triggers, especially in conjunction with other multiplications.
>Recommendation: change the third to the standard "when a nontoken creature you control dies", and ideally delete the second line
Jurian
>Since it doesn't specify "nontoken" creatures, you can pay {X} to create X copies of those creatures. Even the ones that boost each others' stats. Even the ones that cost half your mana to play.
>Is also batshit insane with the as-is Karst - a five color goodstuff deck would be able to, at the absolute minimum, spawn unlimited hordes of 1/1 fliers for {1} each.
>Recommendation: "Whenever a nontoken creature..." would still be absolute batshit insane, but not the sort of thing that a fucking DIMIR deck would think about splashing.
Solothir
>Just plain lackluster compared to the others. Paying life to get effects is strong and overpowered compared to actual mana curves, but it's way weaker than, say, Grieselbrand
>Can't say for certain where its power level is exactly, though
Luvian
>Like the above, this is notably weaker than the other three, but it's also obscenely powerful compared to actual cards. Unlimited combat tricks at exactly the strength/cost you need them to be, instant speed removal of Indestructible creatures, and more.
>Recommendation: Abilities that cost mana are denoted with "{1}: Target..."
Viderni
>This reads "As long as you have enough mana open, you cannot be dealt combat damage by creatures without Vigilance". Also, 3-mana repeated removal of indestructible hexproof creatures, even if conditional, is absurd. Also, twiddle/sleep effects exist.
>Recommendation: I have no clue.
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>>64592231
>>64592255
First of all, let's establish something that is relevant to everything I say. I only take in consideration REAL sets - I disregard anything that has not been printed with the intend to be played at standard/modern. This include all those countless sets for commander, conspiracies, duel decks, etc. I'm not counting any of these as reference, because they are more like a side-product to the game

>that's all of one card that doesn't have a flavor justification
Doesn't that proves that it doesn't need a flavor justification to get these effects? You claimed that creature recursion on monoR would only appear on Phoenix creatures, because that is the only flavor that could do it, and I just gave you 2 counter-examples:
> 1) Squee do it with a whole another flavor (his own flavor of immortality), proving that being a Phoenix is not the only flavor that can do it
> 2) Pyrewild Shaman does it without any apparently flavor, proving that you don't even need a flavor to do it
I mean, you can ignore them, but that just add to the list of facts you are ignoring

>It only comes through because of the flavor. Without the flavor, you don't have anything to go on
See above. Pyrewild Shaman proves this premise of yours is wrong

>All you have for this effect
I have two cards. You claim both are invalid arguments (just like the red recursive creatures) because of multiple separated reasons. That sounds dubious, at least

Well, let's make a timeline then:
> Captivating Vampire (M11, July 2010)
> Enslave (New Phyrexia, May 2011)
> Olivia Voldaren (Innistrad, May 2012)
> Connive (Guilds of Ravnica October 2018)
Those are the facts. You can tell me that half of these (conveniently, the half that disproves your theory) are invalid because of whatever reasons, but there they are. New Phyrexia has some weird bends towards black, but the 1 color that wasn't affected by that is black itself. Connive uses hybrid mana, which means it can be played on monoB (also, see OP)
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>>64594341
All good points; the set I'm making is intended to be higher power than current Magic but still reasonable. Perhaps it would be better if they were cost at 5 or 6 CMC instead? I am always hesitant to even make high costed cards that are supposed to be good as games don't usually go on long enough to ever use them.
>>
just casually continuing

>>64592231
>Desert Twister justifies mG permanent destruction?
>What about Faithless Looting?
Desert Twister is old and haven't been printed on modern. Faithless Looting was printed once on modern, then never got reprinted on a real set (also, interestingly, Faithless Looting was printed on the same block as Olivia Voldaren, the most recent card that supports your theory)

>It's been reprinted a bunch, and yet remains the lone "draw, then discard" mR card
Again, just to be clear, I'm disregarding any promotional side-product set like commander sets and stuff. Those are aimed to a different public

>Again, New Phyrexia
>Unless you want to explain to me how W, U, R, and G all have access to lifeloss, or how they can pay life to substitute for mana costs
New Phyrexia is a heavy-flavor block that pushes all other colors towards black. That includes phyrixan mana, but not exclusively (other mechanics as well). That is why it is a poor precedent in most cases - because it is bending W, U, R and G towards black in an aggressive way. Now, black is black. You can't bend black into black and say it isn't black anymore. If there is one color we can trust on New Phyrexia is black, because it is the one color that isn't being bent to something else

Be careful when your argument is "this card is invalid because of whatever set it is on". First, you need to understand the set and where it deviates. The Time Spiral block is pretty much fucked everywhere, but when a card from it gets reprinted on another set, it becomes a whole another story. New Phyrexia does have colorpie concerns, but not on black cards

>>64591239
btw, since we are on the subject, please remember that Elesh Norn is completely bent and not within the normal colorpie for white
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>>64590369
>>64590280
Another victim falls to replacement effects mixed with triggered abilities.
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>>64590794
TBHon some of nunuRavnican hybrid slip cards are awful precedence and quite clearly glaring bends.
>>64592062
Incubation is Blue just like Collision is Red. Blue gets library filtering, Green gets library filtering when searching for creatures just like Green damages directly flyers while Red damages directly anything.
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>>64594747
Decided to completely re-do Luvian as something more fun, that I wish was an actual card.
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>>64591239
The second card is thereotically White but the effect is so big, it's basically card Fog stapled on a creature. And fog is Green.
It's like why you don't see Red spells dealing more than 6 dmg to a creature: because it encroaches on terrotory of another colour, Black kill spells.
Third card has dealing dorect damage to creatures. This is Red ability. White can only damage directly creatures in combat or tapped ones.
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>>64591490
Elesh Norn is not valid precedent!
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>>64592592
>Black Ritual
Why. It's Red effect for over decade.
Aldo OG Dark Ritual is insane accel already.
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>>64594747
>WUB
>saccing creatures for mans in White
>saccing creatires for Blue mana
This is a monoBlack card, why did ypu make the one WITHOUT mana-friendliest colours all about mana?
>>64595574
Black and Green get indestructible in lieu of regeneration. Static ability passively granting indestructible is White.
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>>64595781
>Why
Because all of those designs are based on the boons.
>Red effect
Yeah, you think I didn't notice? Doesn't change the fact that black rituals exist and I have them in my cube.
>OG Dark Ritual is insane accel already
Yeah but I wouldn't call it as good as Recall. Making it a slightly shittier Lotus pushes it up to be about even.
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Is this guy OP?
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>>64597089
The ability should probably cost 2U, and you can pump his body up to 1/2 or 2/1.
Stifle is such a niche effect that leaving him with a bad body is just asking for him to be unplayable.
They stapled a stifle onto a 3 mana flash flying 3/1 and a cancel. For reference.
I'd also bump him up to rare too.
If the name is placeholder, that's fine but i'd probably rename it too.
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>>64597089
>He hates mother jokes.
I understood that reference.
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>>64597089
Modest mana cost, but an actual reasonable ability activation cost, minimum Toughness, part of two good tribes...

Yeah, he's good, but I wouldn't say OP. He's counterspell revealed from your hand that as soon as you use, eats a Shock or a Bolt or a boardwipe.

10/10 flavor text concept, though I might change it to something that flows a bit better, like "Don't (talk/joke) about his mother." or some such.
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>>64597374
I did not.
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>>64597458
>Literal American Pie reference
>10/10 flavor
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>>64599296
We're making pretend cards to play in our children's card game where we play as pretend wizards.
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>>64599551
Doesn't mean we have to have shit taste while we do so
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>>64599072
Make it so it can't target itself with it's ability, if you want to push the 'protecting something else' feel that I'm getting from it.
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>>64594636
>Squee
It's not that it has flavor different from Phoenixes to justify its mechanic, it's that it uses any flavor to justify that mechanic. Because that means the ability isn't actually within the mechanical bounds of the color pie, and it uses flavor to bend it.

>Pyrewild Shaman
The reason I'm dubious of it is because it was made to work with a mechanic in the set. Oftentimes Wizards will bend the pie a bit to make for a better set experience, and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is people using them as precedence. Going by Pyrewild Shaman, does Cyclone Sire mean that land animation is in U? Or was it simply put into U because it was one of the colors, alongside W, that got the most Awaken cards. Hell, take any mechanic that uses +1/+1 counters in U. Those keywords don't mean U now gets a bunch of cards with +1/+1 counters, because historically, and going strong into today, U gets the fewest +1/+1 counters out of all the colors.

>> Enslave (New Phyrexia, May 2011)
Why do you refuse to acknowledge the original printing of this card?

>>64594808
>New Phyrexia is a heavy-flavor block that pushes all other colors towards black.
Exactly, which is why it's horrible for precedence.

>You can't bend black into black and say it isn't black anymore. If there is one color we can trust on New Phyrexia is black, because it is the one color that isn't being bent to something else.
It's a Blue ability in Black. It's Black bending Blue so hard that it becomes Black. At least, that's how it can be read in NPH. In PLC it was just "Hey, from a flavor standpoint, this ability could technically fit in Black," just like the colorshifted cards.

>Be careful when your argument is "this card is invalid because of whatever set it is on". First, you need to understand the set and where it deviates.
G can make tokens with Flying. Citation: Hornet Queen. Hey, it was reprinted in M15, Wizards must think it's color pie accurate.
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>>64597089
Nice card, though I don't like the flavor text.

>>64595425
I don't like anti-Flying in R either, but Wizards decided to piss on me and print Tears of Valakut.
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More weird Fate stuff. Though rest assured, this is a Fate OC and not based on a historical person.



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