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Put the cyber in the punk edition.


What is /awg/?
A thread to talk about minis and games which fall between the cracks, or peoples' homebrew wargames. The Historical Wargames General doesn't entertain fantasy (for good reason) and the other threads are locked to very specific games, so this thread isn't tied to a game, or a genre, let's talk about fun wargames.

Any scale, any genre, any company, any minis. Skirmishers welcome. Rules designers welcome.


> Examples of games that qualify
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miniature_wargames
Grimdark Future, Age of Fantasy, Mighty Armies, Dragon Rampant, Of Gods and Mortals, Frostgrave, Ghost Archipelago, Hordes of the Things, Songs of Blades and Heroes, Freebooter's Fate, Dark Age, Beyond the Gates of Antares, LotR and anything that doesn't necessarily have a dedicated thread (gorkamundheim).


>Old Thread
>>64402088


> Places to get minis
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D2DbNJ2mYAUxh5P9Pq9NZqS5tXHGn0i2JhZchEwbA2I/edit?usp=sharing


>The Novice Troves
https://pastebin.com/MjtsC8AX (embed)
https://mega.nz/#F!zSYW0I4a!vXh8-UPi_tWXpJES_-p4zg


>News
https://ttfix.blogspot.com
https://wargameterrain.blogspot.com

>Painting Event Details (February)
>Rules
Paint something big (monster, vehicle, terrain, as long as it's big).


>Thread Question
How much tokens are still ok from 'none they clutter the table' to 'sure I can track 20 status effects'?
>>
>>64498077
>Put the cyber in the punk edition.

Infinity still existing, zone raiders kickstarter, reality's edge coming this summer. Exciting times.
>>
First for rogue stars
My copy should show up in the mail soon

Anyone picking up anything else on the osprey sale?
>>
>>64493815
Oh, I'm very much interested in getting info from somebody who's worked with GMG.
Do you have any stats to share after working with him? How much does he charge? You really think this thread + some kickstarter and mild indie-tier advertising beats a guy with 57k subs on youtube? Why do you call him a leech - what's he do?

>>64498137
>reality's edge coming this summer.
Has he posted any previews/sneak-peeks of this?
>>
>>64498330
>Look at all that bait
>>
>>64497921
>Also, you'll wind up using quite a few tokens to keep track of model stress. We usually use little poker chips.
I think this also fell victim to the poor editing of the book, but judging by the templates on the Ganesha page the author wrote the rules and played the game using dice he put on custom little character sheets to keep track of each models loadout and their stats.
Dice really make a lot more sense if you think about it.
>>
>>64498362
Not really. Knowing more about how he operates better enables other game developers to determine his value as a means to promote their game.
Info which is immediately relevant given we have a person in this thread who needs to consider how they promote their game.
>>
>>64498579
Yeah, having each character represented by a little card off to the side with a few dice on each to represent that models stress, wounds, etc would make managing it significantly easier. A little bit heavier on the dice requirements, but so it goes.

On the other hand, I found the 80 gorillion tokens littering the board at the end of a turn kind of charming.
>>
>>64498579
Plus he's stated in the Facebook group that capping those markers at 6 is fine
>>
>>64498698
It might just be the standard guy that hates GMG, not necessarily someone that's worked with him.
>>
>>64500266
Yeah I figure he is, but the chance of getting actual info is too good to pass up.
If they fail to respond in any meaningful way, well, then we know.
>>
>>64500325
Oh, I agree. Some meaningful would be great. I'm not in the same position as Zone Raiders, but as an aspiring game designer myself, it'd be great to learn more about the promoters available out there. But I think its just the same guy that just shits on all Youtubers for no reason.
>>
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>>64498077
Where can i get these miniatures? Its a picture of Zone Raiders.
>>
>>64498330
>Has he posted any previews/sneak-peeks of this?

not that I know, but it popped up in amazon for preorder and:

https://wargameterrain.blogspot.com/2018/06/breaking-osprey-games-realitys-edge.html
>>
>>64500325
People dont respond to questions because they get people asking them with awful phrasing and leading questions, and then when they dont show up for a few hours it becomes 'he was a fraud anyway' . Yeah no shit people dont want to divulge information they could get in trouble for here.
>>
>>64498747
>I found the 80 gorillion tokens littering the board at the end of a turn kind of charming.

And I'd find it awkward to have to look at cards to see how much stress has been accumulated by the opposing squad compared to just looking at the table. Especially when it comes to gauging whether it's worth trying to take the initiative.

And there's something also really satisfying about taking all the stress tokens off as well.

Might have to see if I can convince my housemates to play some Rogue Stars with me this weekend now, fuck.
>>
>>64498747
>>64501034
kind of a middle ground would be to use the stress counters from GoA. You place them next to the minis, but you can dial them to the appropriate number. Same thing as a die basically, but visually distinct.
>>
>>64501030
Alright.
Were any of my questions bad?
If they answer the questions ever, the "fraud" label is immediately removed, so if that was a concern, they could fix it.
What info would cause trouble? If they're under some NDA to not disclose how much he charges (?), saying as much would suffice.

Questions wouldn't have to be asked if people supported their vague claims to begin with. If they don't want to have a discussion and just post shit, then what do they expect to happen - people to just take everything they say at their word?
>>
>normal discussion, good questions, is this gonna be normal?
>nope ruined by REEEEing at the end
why can't you just be normal without retarding out and making people decide to just ignore you
>>
>>64501401
what did he mean by this
>>
>>64501439
He's been in love with Ash for years, but Ash being married and having kids and straight means his dreams will never come true. It haunts him.
>>
>>64501696
constantly trying to make it seem like there's only one person who doesn't like promoters in 2019 just makes us look like even more of a reject game echochamber
>>
>>64501873
We are a reject game echochamber. That's the point of this thread.
>>
>>64500776
The snake critter is Sneaky, from RN Estudio. The soldiers might be Hasslefree?
>>
>>64502370
Guy in last thread said discontinued Puppet wars.


Speaking of models. Does anyone know of good stand in for Fallout Vault Dwellers? Preferably cheaper than the ones for the Modiphius game.
>>
>>64502765
http://www.brother-vinni.com/shop.htm#!/Postapoc-Citizens/p/29086078/category=5965003
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Cyberpunk? Hardwired is a free game by the guy who's working on the ultimate Stalker game, Zona Alfa.

Small team black ops action, four classes, uses my beloved dice pool mechanic. Dice pool means you spend dice for your actions during the turn, once you run out of dice, your activation ends. The twist here in Hardwired is that those dice are polyhedrals - d6-d10, only one of each, so the player can influence the probability of success and has another decision point in where to use his strong die.

https://stalker7.com/2018/06/01/hardwired-a-free-cyberpunk-game/#jp-carousel-6032
>>
>>64502765
There's a fallout chess set, but I'm not sure what the scale is exactly.
>>
>>64503422
herpderp
>>
>>64500776
Is that just XCOM 2 with the serial numbers filed off?
>>
>>64503489
I think it's supposed to be a generic scifi skirmish game.
>>
Anybody have a PDF for the full Malifaux rules? They've got a mini rulebook for free, but that doesn't include any model stats.
>>
I need the best 28 minis you all got for corporate security and kill team types.
>>
>>64504297
The 3rd edition rules are in open beta. Just grab them on the forum
>>
>>64503513
>>64503489
Its Zone Raiders, a model agnostic skirmish game currently on kickstarter athttps://kck.st/2Db9Oki
I'm the creator, currently showing stuff off in Vegas at a convention. Xcom was quite an inspiring element for sure, as its a great series with all that strategic campaign element...
Say hi if you guys are here!
>>
>>64507651
Hey, I got a few questions, if you're free:
Are the images showing the rules on the kickstarter supposed to be so low-res and effectively illegible? Kind of makes showing them useless past seeing production value of the product.

Secondly, what made you go with what appears to be predefined unit types for each faction (their Roster) rather than a more open point-buy setup? Ease of balancing? Standardization for each faction? It "just happened that way"?

The Zone Stalkers seem to be really big on Stealth - what's Stealth do?

Do factions affect anything outside of direct combat? Do you perhaps have any sort of "campaign turn" effects, for example? Or just skills related to post-combat sequences that might be exclusive (or just better access to) certain factions/
>>
What's a good skirmish game that captures the feel of warframe / mass effect / destiny?

A small number of dudes with guns and space magic.
Is rogue stars my closest bet?
>>
>>64508115
>The Zone Stalkers seem to be really big on Stealth - what's Stealth do?
I think on the game's main site it was stated that Stealth prevents being targeted at range until they shoot first (or possibly if they something gets close enough to them).
>>
>>64508447
>captures the feel of warframe / mass effect / destiny?
I haven't tried Rogue Stars yet, but Infinity maybe? Might be too high model count for you though. If you want something with a very low model count, as in just 2-3 dudes, and something that has a high focus on randomized missions then you might want to look more into board games than war games.

Wait, when did warframe get space magic? Oh right, the autism babies.
>>
>>64508623
Warframe has had space magic well before the space autistic kids.
>>
>>64508812
I thought the frames were biological weapons, not magic?
>>
>>64508882
so is the Force
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>>64508916
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>>64508115
1. Heya! Good points. There's a link to some earlier demo rules within the website linked as well, at www.zoneraiders.com. The main point of those were to mostly show production value.
2. The predefined units allow different groups to play very differently, as well as preventing 'analysis paralysis' as to what on earth is reasonable to build.
3. Stealth makes a model untargettable beyond 12 inches by shooting. You lose stealth if you fired, or if you get legitimately targeted. It helps set up a slight early advantage, at the cost of the Zone Stalkers being more fragile in stand-out rights.
4. Factions have unique team-wide upgrades called Doctrines and unique gear, which mean even nearly identical profiles in different factions play differently.

Hope that helps.
>>64508447
Well, Zone Raiders did have a bit of warframe inspiration in parts. You can build a Parkour squad of Exanthropes who gain mastery powers...
>>
>>64501034
>look at cards to see how much stress has been accumulated by the opposing squad compared to just looking at the table

True tokens on the table are nice for that, but what I really don't like is when you have to move a million tokens around because the figure moved.
>>
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>cards
>special dice
NEVER do this.
>>
>>64511122
>special dice
I agree this is why I really hate Fantasy Flight Games theres nothing those special dice do that just saying "You hit on a 4 up" cant do. And if you lose them or have a shitty roommate that can never put anything back correctly you're fucked.

>Cards
I'll argue you can make photocopies and have backups. Put status tokens on the cards. And having everything on those cards means not referring to a codex or manual while playing.
Cards can speed up gameplay
>>
>>64509691
How much of a psychic God can I make in Zone Raiders
>>
>>64511122
I agree, this vendorlockin shit is annoying as fuck, looking at you mantic.
>>
Not sure what happened to the anon who wanted to make the collage for the paint challenge but I want a collage. So I made one, hope I didn't forget anyone. Also the thing is autogenerated (photocollage) so don't take it as a slight if your image is smaller than another (can't control that).
>>
>>64511455
You missed my entry, but I supposed Reaper goblins are pretty much the same no matter who paints 'em.

Good shit.
>>
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Speaking of the paint thing, starting my submission for Feb's.
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>>64511621
link me up, I'll redo the collage with all entries.
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>>64510487
Depends on the game for me there; if it's something with a boat load of models, I'm not wanting tokens on the table. For something with a dozen models on the table between the two players, it doesn't bother me so much.

>>64511455
Good job Anon!
>>
>>64511674
Source on the mini?
>>
>>64512082
The Tuucha'nak from Dark Age.
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>>64511455
Based and comfypilled
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>>64498077
Open question to thread. Do you guys like playing your minis type games on TTS or are you diehard physical presence only?
>>
>>64512377
>or are you diehard physical presence only?
the main attraction are the minis. If you are playing TTS you might as well be playing a proper video game imo. Defeats the whole point.

Not that I wouldn't use it if I can't get a game at all, but it's really no substitute.
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bump from the street troll
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>>64511455
Both our resident namefags have been absent lately. I reckon that excessively angry guy tracked them down.

Anyhow, I propose that we should have a separate challenge post after the OP every thread, to stop it getting lost. Same as /hwg/.
>>
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>>64504378
I really like the Black Diamond troopers from relic Knight, but I don't think I've ever seen them with a good paint job.
>>
>>64511455
Looks great.
>>64514008
>our resident namefags have been absent lately
This sounds life a good thing.
>>
>>64512377
Physical all the way, though I've never tried using TTS to play a miniatures game; maybe it's the best fucking thing ever, who knows. But I like seeing nicely painted models on handmade terrain, I like seeing other people's modelling jobs, and that doesn't seem likely to be a thing on TTS.

Plus I like to be able to see the person I'm playing with so it feels like a social activity and I can pretend I'm one of the cool kids.
>>
>>64515196
>>64512415
There are tons of video games you can play with your friends. It seems silly to play a game designed for tabletop on the computer.
>>
>>64511674
How long ago did you buy that model? Dark Age stock has been wiped clean for quite a while.
>>
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/346620204/zone-raiders-a-miniatures-campaign-skirmish-game/posts/2409871

Basic gameplay field demo up for Zone Raiders. There's of course more options for advanced play, but this gives a feel for how a round plays.
>>
>>64515171
It is a good thing.
>>
>>64512377
I'm fine with playing on TTS.

>>64515754
There really aren't many that operate the same as most wargames.
For example, do you know of any video games that have a multiplayer campaign warband setup, to do something like This is Not a Test?
>>
>>64516804
The Mordhiem and Fallout spring to mind. I think they might not have multiplayer campaigns, but that's not hard to house rule it yourself if you want.

Searching for the exact she experience is silly though. You're using a drastically different medium. It might have more restrictions as far as done things go, but are much more versatile in others.

No amount of playing WoW will scratch your RPG itch. But TTS won't really scratch the table top itch imo. You can get good replacements for some aspects, but nothing is going to be the same.
>>
As someone who is only now seeing what Osprey has as far as games go, can anyone which of their rulesets are worth a try?

That Rogue Stars looks cool enough. Maybe Kobolds and Cobblestones?
>>
>>64517647
Never tried them, but I've understood Lion/Dragon rampant is among the more popular titles.
>>
>>64517510
You mean the Mordheim video game? It's not very good. It's also not even on content-parity with the tabletop games, missing warband options.
I dunno what Fallout you're referring to.
Although I think you might have misunderstood what I said? Not sure.

I'm saying I play wargames on tabletop sim because video games quite simply do not really even try to do what tabletop games do. The closest thing might be like, Slitherine's wargames?
Nevermind finding a video game that has warband-scale linked-campaign play where you can build a little narrative for your mans as they get better and fight other players mans, like This is Not a Test and all that stuff.

TTS makes playing tabletop games quite easy. Tons of models available, you can play games that can be houseruled easily (because they aren't video games, and thus don't need to programmed), the digital tools make actually playing easier. I'm not really a fan of the "hobby" side of tabletop, so I don't really lose out on much here.
But, yeah, if you're in it for the painting models and seeing other peoples painted models, obviously it's not comparable to the real thing.
>>
>>64498362
>Isn't it neat
>Wouldn't you say that my shitpost's complete?
>>
>>64500776
The soldiers look like something from Anvil Industry.
>>
>>64518301
>video games quite simply do not really even try to do what tabletop games do.
They don't try, because it would be dumb. Why limit yourself to the simple easy to follow rules of a board game, when you have access to computational power that lets you make a more complex system?
>>
>>64518565
I was going to talk a bit more about this difference but didn't, because that's execution, not concept or the desired goal.
Nevermind the fact you don't actually need complex systems or rules to have a fun game.

Games like Fallout Tactics, Hard West, XCOM, Dustwind (-ish), Jagged Alliance, and other turn-based tactical games are similar to tabletop wargames, but which of them lets you do things like TnT - that let you create a warband in a campaign environment with friends? None of them, to my knowledge. Video games don't seem to care to enter that space. Too niche, I suppose?

We only get this kind of stuff when people remake literal tabletop games into video game form, like Mordheim and Blood Bowl (neither are good games to begin with IMO, but whatever).
Saying that, XCOM and WH40K Mechanicus ARE similar to campaign-warband games, because of their persistence between fights.
>>
>>64508623
>>64508447
Infinity doesn't have space magic. It has werewolves, but no psychic powers.
>>
>>64519247
>Werewolves aren't space magic
>Chearleading isn't space magic
>>
>>64519247
Doesn't one of the factions have weaponised memes?
>>
Gates of Antares:
How often do units "die" to pins rather than actual damage, in your guys' experience? Whether viewing or playing.
>>
>>64519626
Indeed, but that is more visible in the RPG.
>>64519424
I assume "space magic" is stuff like the Force. There's plenty of silly things, but no "kill ayys with your mind".
cheerleading is an awesome mechanic that only brainlets complain about, it's the rest of the system that's full of jank
>>
>>64517647
Rogue Stars is a good concept, but heavily flawed to the point of almost broken. It's clearly either half finished or was heavily butchered to fit into the page count. Some mechanics are rpg level complicated and others are glossed over or incomplete. It's fine if you're playing in a group that know how to have fun with house rules on the fly and play for fun, as a structured skirmish game it misses the mark.
>>
>>64521743
What do you feel is missing?
There's an expansion in the works
>>
If a game uses random generation elements for player's forces, do you think it's a good idea to make some nominal attempt at encouraging relative parity in forces generated through some sort of point system or something?
>>
>>64515812
Its been sitting in my closet for a while. Bought it during a Black Friday sale, but never got around to putting it together.
>>
>>64511279
>this is why I really hate Fantasy Flight Games
also, their tendency to use nonstandard card sizes. i dont want to buy shitty nonstandard sleeves and reference text for ants
>>
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>>64511455
>wok
>on square bases
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>>64511279
Printable template cards you can fill out yourself with the model profile= good
Stupid decks of special cards or specific cards needed to play the game = bad
>>
>>64512377
>TTS
It's useful for something prohibitively expensive, like KDM, or for testing before printing physical component, but not regular play.
>>
>>64519664
When I played, net(?) mortars were the easiest way to kill Ghar as they put out shitloads of pins.
>>
>>64522628
>random
very worried.
have you ever played the wow cmg? the vp needed to win was equal to your deployed force. worked pretty well, but you needed to use a range limit since it could get impossible for ome side and tournaments had point maximums
>>
>FLGS is having a Mantic sale
>decide to check out Dwarf King Hold
>ask to see the box, notice it's not foiled
>open the box
>out of the 29 minis like one dwarf sprue is in there

I don't know what was sadder, that someone stole those miniatures or the look on the clerk's face. Shit sucks. I planned to use the sale to fill up my fantasy stuff and maybe get a cool game as well.
>>
Has anyone done warcraft style miniatures besides ffgs runewars?
>>
>>64523167
WoK is ded.
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>>64523539
That does suck.
>>
>>64521729
>Cheerleading is the highlight, the rest of the rules are even worse
How horrifying.
>>
But why "Nowhere" backwards?
>>
>>64524240
Why not?
>>
Do games where getting drunk is a mechanic exist?
>>
>>64524342
Feels more of a parody/gag name than an actual name.
>>
>>64524240
Game is model, basing, and setting agnostic.
>>
>>64523762
only to the publisher, i have over 4k worth of minis so my club can play any list they want
>>
>>64524482
malifaux
>>
>>64524482
It can show up as a complication in rogue stars
>>
>>64524500
Seems more whimsical than the standard fantasy pseudo-Tolkienian rubbish, which is both staid and overly-serious. I'd play a game in Erewhon, and I'd use those Killer Rabbits from Skull and Crown. Red Book of the Elf King beats it, but again that's directly lifted from Tolkien's Red Book of Westmarch, the in universe historical manuscript that his writing is lifted from. Plus as mentioned it's actually a setting agnostic set of rules.
>>
>>64524482
there was a game that was about drinking beer yourself, but I think that didn't last too long.
Had nice minis though.

You can also look around for the brewhouse brawl game by GW. Basically a bunch of orcs high on fungus beer kicking the crap out of each other.
>>
>>64498077

So is this human interface game gonna be out soon? Or can I just pick up the two 'teams" currently?
>>
>>64524728
Erehwon*
>>
>>64525090
The first kickstarter ended a few years ago and ever since then you could buy several boxes and blisters for each faction.
Maybe you should just look up their homepage.
>>
Any of you nerds actually play Warlords of Nowhere yet
>>
>>64525593
I'd rather wait for Oathmark as I already bought minis for that range and Erehwon looks kind of like a... don't want to say cashgrab, but warlord only has the skeletons and orcs aside from the historicals for them. And Test of Honor is being phased out atm, a lot of the sculpts for that game are last chance right now.
Don't really see Warlord building that game into something proper. I mean they couldn't even be bothered to come up with a clever name.
>>
>>64524728
>but again that's directly lifted from Tolkien's Red Book of Westmarch,
You mean the thing Tolkien lifted from a literal red leather bound book full of Welsh folklore?
>>
>>64525684
oops, shows how little I know
>>
>>64525593
I'd like to look at a PDF before I buy into it
>>
>>64526910
Speaking of which, any PDF of it floating around?
>>
So /awg/, when it comes to a new game's setting, do you prefer a more focused one in themes and structure, or do you prefer the openness of kitchen sink settings?
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>>64524561
>4k worth of minis
Jeez. Why?
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>>64524577
I really do want to try out the Brewmaster's crew. I finally guy the nightmare golem assembled and painted.
>>
>>64528790
A kitchen sink setting makes it easier to use different minis for, but it also means the game may look generic and boring.
>>
>>64524240
Because errywun can be a warlord, even you
>>
>>64528790
Kitchen sink, usually.

Games with a tight focus in the setting tend to be great if it happens to line up with your tastes, off-putting when it doesn't. Given the wide variety of stuff people like, there's going to be more that find it off-putting than great. Which isn't necessarily a problem, but if you're trying to find a game for a group to play, one with setting elements that appeal to as many people as possible is bonus.

If you're trying to come up with a unique selling point for your game, make it a cool mechanic, rather than something about the setting.
>>
>>64528790
Varied, but coherent? So I guess it's more focused one for me.
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>>64524500
I feel like somehow it's related to Butler's Erewhon.
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look what goes bump in the night?
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Pic related is on sale. Is it worth getting?
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>>64512377
Pure physical luddite. Physical minis, actual terrain, printed rules, actually written army shit, the works. I spend enough online in work and if I wanted to play online there's a ton of vidya to choose from.
>>
>>64523143
>Fantasy Flight Games
>nonstandard card sizes
Why would they produce nonstandard size when it'd mean they can't sell us sleeves for them?
>>
>>64533615
their sleeve jewing got even more intolerable once all their cards transitioned to linen. cant even get good scans for custom prints and their in house sleeves are thoroughly mediocre. the worst of every world
>>
>>64511455
The trees bottom left look great, very "fantasy". Anyone know, are they just putty over wire?
>>
>>64529397
>so my club can play any list they want
cmon anon, it's right there
also wanted a few extra duplicates for kitbashes.
>>
>>64530751
>Cool mechanic rather than setting.
Same. I seek out games that bring something new to the table in their design, and not just in the awg world but also over in hwg land, where this is sometimes frowned upon. (There it might just mean a more efficient model, a better simulation with less moving parts.)
I enjoy exploring clever mechanisms.

Judging by the many posts in these threads with people fussing over their fluff, I might actually be in a minority with my approach. With me it's generally, "keep your fanfic wankery out of my rule book! "
I feel if you 're in need of setting, you're already surrounded by an inexhaustible wealth of proper literature, filems, etc. Transcribing your favourite P.G Wodehouse characters into the character profiles of your favourite clever game, what could be better?
>>
>>64535592
>also over in hwg land, where this is sometimes frowned upon

I'm amazed it's frowned upon over there, given that they've got multiple sets of rules that cover the same "setting" (endless variations on the theme of World War 2, ACW, ECW, Napoleonics, etc. etc.), you'd think they'd be all about bringing new mechanics to highlight things that make a game in their preferred time period unique to all the others in that time period.

>people fussing over their fluff

Reckon it's because a lot of people don't get to play very much and so don't have much to talk about in terms of actual games, but you can sit and read the fluff of 40k or whatever and get into endless arguments about their favourite bit from some story of other.
>>
What are the best non corvus belli 28mm cyberpunk minis you guys know of?

Kinda want to get a group started for realities edge and zone raiders.
>>
>>64538291
Gonna need more information about what you want. Cyberpunk is like post apocalyptic stuff. It ranges from dirt farmers with a knife to just short of Battletech.
>>
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>>64498077
>Paint something big
Working on this guy.
Almost done. Gotta add clump foliage to the tree armatures.

I think I'm going to rebase it. It was originally going to be a counts as Wraithknight for an Exodite Eldar army. But I think I might use it as a giant for KoW.
>>
>>64538533

Hmm how about some rioters or maybe gangers? Also I want some corporate killteam types.
>>
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>>64538562
Less retarded picture.
>>
>>64538593
Most anything from Spectre Miniatures. Eureka Miniatures has some modern era stuff that works. Scotia Grendel's Urban War VASA, Viridians, and Militia, and Kryomek Nexus forces are sort of near future sci-fi. Maelstrom's Edge Epirians and Mantic GCPS are pretty much colonial marines. MegaCon MERCS are actual corporate killteams.
>>
>>64535959
>historical frowning
I don't want to overstate this, since as you said, people over there are just as much going after the new shiny, never able to settle on one game. Also, I've been thinking of historical wargaming beyond the chan, including cardboard on paper maps.

But yes, that attitude can be encountered, and really, it should be encountered there.
If you're grognarding in earnest you have no time for fancy mechanics talk, you're after reliably modelling historical events. No matter if that model is process or effect oriented, gaming l'art pour l 'art has no place there. Perfectly reasonable.

I'm no grognard though, so it's that nifty activation mechanic I haven't seen before that'll win me over, that'll make me want to play the game. It trumps the "No connection whatsoever to historical command constraints in 18th c warfare" argument for me.

>talk is cheap, playing the game is a rare and valuable commodity
I don't play much either. It's just that, as above, it's finding that activation mechanic that gets my juices flowing, not the badly written prose about the Blood Wizard of Gaugamurchl.


All that said, it was the promise of Venice that drew me to Carnevale (the old one). Apparently, setting won in that case.
(It didn't survive contact with playing though - gameplay was clunky and weak. Again, not clever enough to keep the rulebook around)
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>>64538847
Well, dang. I can't do a tree ent now. Yours looks better than mine.
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>>64529411
Do it. They are tons of fun in 3E especially with Turner.
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>>64539535
Do it anyways. I'm a pretty terrible painter. It just came out okay because the model is like a foot tall.
>>
>>64538291
>>64538593
>corporate killteam types.
If you are using corvus belli the human interface stuff should scale really well with it.
>>
>>64513645
This reminds me whatever happened to Shadowrun Sprawl Gangers? Did they ever declare that game officially dead or are they just gonna let is fade into oblivion?
>>
>>64538291
>>64540723
CP models also has some nice minis that could work for that
>>
What's your favourite of the three?
Fantasy, Historical or mix of the two?
>>
>>64543322
Fantasy, though I also like fantasy history stuff.
>>
>>64543322
i like a mix of the two
>>
Does anyone know of any 28-32mm Alien miniatures? Specifically the "Facehuggers?"
>>
>>64543322
Definitely a mix of the two. The fantastic mixed with the historic plays well off each other.
>>
If zone raider anon is on are there any biotech factions? Also any chance of saying what the morlocks are?
>>
>>64544620
He has a update on his kickstarter giving faction info.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/346620204/zone-raiders-a-miniatures-campaign-skirmish-game/posts/2411341
It seems Exanthropes are biotech.
>>
>>64543450
Prodos has an entire line of Aliens in 32mm.
>>
>>64538847
>>64539535
>I was going to do a tree monster
Well, I guess tree monsters are our go to giant models.
>>
I think I've got a good general concept for how I want to do warband building - Sort of like a crossbreed between mount and blade gameplay and realm of chaos.

When creating your warband you'll start out by creating the character that represents the warband leader, who is "you" after a fashion.
He'll start out with a certain amount of coins, and you'll be given weeks as a second currency. Weeks can be spent on various uses of your character's time, and generally means picking a table to roll on for opportunities, exp, that sort of thing.

For example lets say I've created a Dwarf Warrior type character as my leader, with 4 weeks and 100 gold. I decide to start out by spending my first week on the "Recruit Dwarves" table.

Rolling on the table shows me that 5 Dwarf warriors with axes, shields, and medium armor, as well as 2 marksdwarves with crossbows. I have the option to recruit as many or as few as I like, but given my limited funds, choose to hire a 3 man unit of warriors, and both marksdwarves for a total of 75 gold.

I spend my second week out adventuring, which results in the discovery of a (random) magical weapon (for free!) and some experience points for my leader.

The third week also gets spent adventuring, earning the warband d20 gold, but forcing our leader to roll on the injury table. He loses an eye for his troubles.

With a good bit of gold left, I choose to spend the last week visiting the market. The roll says no rare gear is available unfortunately, so my choices are limited to common gear. I spend some gold to buy all 6 dwarves in the party helmets, and pocket the rest for later.

I spend the exp on my leader for some skill or another, and that gets me my starting warband.
>>
so out of mantic's sci fi stuff what are the good models?
>>
>>64548275
since that is subjective you should probably just check them out yourself.
While you are there you should not forget about Dreadball as conversion fodder, their si-fi dungeon crawler, the other aliens from Mars attacks and the rebels from Deadzone aside from Warpath.
>>
>>64547976
The only nitpick I have with this is rolling during creation. Unless you and your friend are making your warbands at the same time nothing stops you from getting perfect rolls.
I know, don't play with cheaters but ᖍ(ツ)ᖌ
>>
>>64548275
The vermin and that's pretty much it.
>>
>>64548275
I have really struggled to appreciate anything from mantic. The sci fi orcs have been decent bases for mutant conversions though, even though they have some annoyances.
>>64548315
That's a necessary evil I'm happy to accept, because the game has basically no aspirations towards competitiveness.
I'm even thinking about having solitaire options to allow the game to be used as just a narrative way to guide your modelling projects.
There are some mitigating factors however to prevent a certain player from becoming overwhelming (either because they got lucky, or because they got """lucky""""), mainly the design of the scenarios will try to give a disadvantaged party a fighting chance, and hopefully a fairly well balanced actual value to gold and time. You won't have "Rocks fall everyone dies" and "You get 10 super demons for your warband) on the same table. Things will hopefully be closer to side grades than upgrades over each other.
>>
>>64547976
sounds intersting but not really like it would be very balanced.
>>
>>64540862
Based purly on that render, I'm interested.
>>
>>64533541
Greatly improved league system and a balance pass on all the teams. Should be much more playable now and not spread across 6 fucking books.

I've already cracked and ordered the boxed game. If you had the first edition you do need to order the rulebook -and- cards to update.

/shill
>>
Quick question: is Lost Colossus worth a read for someone looking to expand their knowledge of the Ghost Archipelago lore? Does it add anything particularly useful to the setting?
>>
>>
>>64547669
I've got a giant skellie, working on some egyptian touches for him.
>>
>>64554935
Is he gonna be walking like an egyptian?
>>
>>64547976
It sounds like a cool idea. I love the Mount and Blade games. Randomized recruiting sounds cool too, but would probably be difficult unless you've got a huge pool of available models.
>>64550017
In think the easiest way to balance it would be that you no matter how big/cool you warband gets you either can only field equivalent point/gold totals or get "enducements" Bloodbowl style.
>>
>>64554935
The reaper Skelly giant?
>>64555201
That was terrible.
you really need to bone up on your puns
>>
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Once the gaps on this guy are done I'm going to airbrush the whole thing and submit it as my entry for the challenge.
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What would be a good recommendation for a 5-10 model fantasy skirmish game? A game with it's own range of pre-done units and stats would be handy, rather than having to stat stuff up.

There seems a few options, so was hoping for any first hand accounts of what works well.
>>
>>64556365
Vanguard.
Malifaux might fall outside of "fantasy" but I like it.
>>
Looking for the Beyond the Gates of Antares expansions, Dronescourge and The Chryseis Shard. Thank you for any help!
>>
>>64547976
You should post your rules so far. I'm sure AWG would love to help generate random charts.
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>>64555318
Sorry it's the dead of night here.
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>>64556365
Vanguard's your best bet at the moment, Know nowt about it, but Frostgrave might also be a goer.
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>>64555464

Fucking neat. How are the minis anon?
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>>64556365
Mordheim. It's the gold standard of what a small skirmish game should be. There's plenty of official material for it to get you started, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Fan-made campaigns, like Border Town Burning for example, are rich with additional details and options for you to explore. Also, it shouldn't cost you more than $30 at most to assemble a warband for it.

Be warned though. Mordheim will set a precedent for all future skirmish games you encounter and you may find that many fall very short of it.
>>
>>64559631
What's so good about Mordheim
>>
>>64559615
They are pretty nice IMO. The real stinker is the guy previously pictured as he is gap city, but the rest of the faction is pretty sharp. The only models in the faction I am missing so far are Horomatagi, the Rhino, and the Broken which I will probably buy when they are all out.
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>>64559749
Forgot pic
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>>64555318
>The reaper Skelly giant?
Yeah, I've reinforced most of his longbones with pins, scale wooden planks, embroidery floss (when you stiffen it with a little glue, it's a great rope), and epoxy. Cut himloose from the shitty presculpt base, making a new one out of some acrylic sheeting. The "Blind Pew" gravestone on his mace is getting replaced with Erol Otus's burial urn (pic related) and I'm giving him a proper pre-kopis Bronze Age dagger based on a pretty standard sacrificial pattern from the Old Kingdom. I'm thinking of giving him the Blue Crown or a khat - not only does the urn have a Nemesh headdress, I already have a Giant wearing another.

Carved off most of the European detail, though I left the sword sticking out of his ribs since I have a Crusader warband for Frostgrave and I thought it was funny.


>>64552279
It's okay. New treasure, more snakemen, and a massively expanded magic weapons/armor table. Not much lore, and the campaign is a one-shot with a lot of weird terrain.
>>
>>64559727
1. The setting
2. Errr...
3. That's it

Horribly dated rule set, plenty of community additions of course, but that tends to leave it a bit of a mess for new players unclear where to start and what's "official". GW will no doubt re-do it at some point in a characterless Shitmar setting.
>>
>>64559727
It had some of, if not the, most brilliant minds to ever grace tabletop wargaming behind it's development. Tuomas Pirinen, Alessio Cavatore and Rick Priestley. For reference, Alessio is the one who went on to make Kings of War.

The rules are written in a very readable format, with concise descriptions. Their granularity will appeal to somebody who truly wants to sink their teeth into the game without being overly complex or tedious so they feel detrimental or bloated. Everything was extensively playtested, there's very little developer oversight and nothing feels as if it was added or written without a clear purpose. Even today it's frequently referenced by new skirmish games that come out, either for it's warband generation or for it's combat process.

>>64559877
Twenty years old and probably older than you are, yet it's still one of the finest rulesets ever produced. It's a shame you let modern GW retroactively ruin great things for you.
>>
>>64556365
..Huh, I really like that helmet on the Bone Armor sorceror. I've had him for a dog's age, been sitting on the shelf ever since I sold off my Eldar.

>>64559727
>What's so good about Mordheim
It's pretty tight, flavorful as all fuck, and based off of cleaned up old-school Warhammer rules but as a skirmish game instead of a rank-and-flank. Campaign system is all right. Tends to get extremely swingy, and there's a really nasty "death spiral" effect if you have a couple bad games. The community support was excellent for many years. It's also got literally two decades' worth of good memories and system familiarity backing that up.

The balance is.. obtuse. Non-Human Warbands often seem to be >too< focused on one strategy, depriving you of backup strategies. Advance tables completely screw a couple warbands, while handing out really nasty abilities to others. Like Infinity or many other skirmish games, you need a dense-ass table. Otherwise some of the variant ranged-combat warbands become incredibly powerful and multiple races have no answer. Skaven, meanwhile, have an absolutely brutal point-blank shooting/magic game that spends all its time spamming dice to hunt sixes but completely falls apart anywhere outside a tiny 2-9" rangeband. Your only effective close combat options take up almost half of the available points in your warband's budget to acquire. The errata and magic/rules revamps fixed a lot of that but combat can still be really, really swingy.

I love it to death. I also think Frostgrave: GA is a better system if you actually plan to play a lot of games.
>>
>>64559631
Mordhiem is a pretty bad fit for what the anon wanted.
>>
>>64559862
I'm excited to see it. It sounds like a lot of conversion work.
>>
>>64556365
Relicblade might be worth investigating. It has a campaign mode, a KS just ended for new models and new campaign content, and it typically runs somewhere between 4-6 models for an average game (more, if you bump the point count up).
>>
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>>64503035
>ultimate Stalker game, Zona Alfa.
>>
>>64556365
>>64560419
Relicblade is amazing
>>
What are your thoughts on sort of pseudo units in a skirmish game? By that I mean models that are each treated as an independent model for purposes of movement, morale, combat, but activate, are equipped, and gain exp/skills/levels whatever as a unit?

So you can have a mixture of independent heroes and small groups of 2 to 6 weaker warriors who are more or less clones of one another. I think that would allow a game to still maintain a very personal feel while A.expanding the size range of player warbands, allowing games to grow in scale as a campaign goes on without bogging down too much. You will be able to grow the size of those units and make games bigger without adding new types of model to worry about.
B.allows for that nice hero cleaving through a pack of goblins aesthetic/necromancer summoning blobs of skeletons without bothering to name each guy and track his individual development.
>>
>>64561673
>hex bases on 28mm
How mysterious. What's he using them for?
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>>64560246
So am I, only reason I'm actually following through on this conversion. Well, that and I'm snowed in. Pics aren't coming off of my potato of a phone at the moment though, need to clear out the fridge.

>>64561673
It's fine. At least as long as it's a tactical option and not forcing you to use nothing but. Hell, Mordheim, Frostgrave, and even Battletech use variants on that..
>>
Is this the thread where I can ask a bit about Malifaux? I recently ordered the Seamus and Mah Tucker starters for my wife and I to start playing. She’s shown an interest and it looks like a fun easy enough game to get into for a pretty low cost. I also grabbed the most recent rule book and 2 decks

Is there anything else I need to really start playing? We don’t have a lot of terrain, but we can always use whatever until we get some more thematic stuff. Not sure what else I might need but I want to be able to jump right in once we’ve painted up our models
>>
>>64561935
Daww, turtledog!
>>
What would you guys recommend? Picking up CAV or battletech
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>>64562313
Terrain is important. There's since really good terrain in /TG/'s archive.

You probably should have asked here before buying the book though.

They just started the Open Beta for 3rd Ed. You can get the beta rules for free here: https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/142637-m3e-beta-files/

I think I'd go for the new rules, so you don't have to learn a new rule set, to relearn it in a few months.

Good luck to both of you.
>>
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>>64562889
Would you rather have a game with naval playstyle and leaning heavily on simulation, resource management, and beating your opponents to death with their own legs? BT does that. Games are slow but violently immersive, focusing on managing batteries of weapons and precise tactical maneuvering to take advantage of terrain and interlocking weapon ranges while you're slowly shooting each other's units apart. Most games run from 4-12 units per side, and it starts to break down above 20. It has a massive and insanely detailed history going back for thirty RL years. If you're a huge sperg and love oldschool anime robots it's a great place to go.

Or would you prefer something where you're playing fairly generic robots skirmishing in a fast-moving, more tightly-focused and modern system? CAV treats mecha as though they're larger infantry, with less of a focus on terrain and maneuver. It's fast, fun, and sloppy, with a lot of abstracted mechanics. It guns for verisimilitude and effects-based play, rather than the "simulation" focus of BT. Construction rules are looser and designs have a smaller weapon inventory. You have to make fewer choices per unit, and you can play with about 3x as many commfortably. Scale is larger and the designs are more-unified (since they weren't made by ~20 different people working from 1977-2019, but by three guys and one art director)
It also has a smaller but less-toxic playerbase than BT's.

I play both, as well as Heavy Gear, but I'm a massive mechafag. They all do something slightly different.
>>
>>64563848
Nice, how does heavy gear fit in?
>>
>>64563410
It was only like $10 so I’m not too beat up about buying a physical copy. Thanks for the heads up though, I’ll check out those new rules in the meantime. We do have a little bit of terrain for some other games we play (AoS, SW: Legion), but it will work until we find or make some stuff that’s more thematic for the setting
>>
>>64564042
Ever watched VOTOMS? Pretty much that, with a solid leavening of Masamune Shirow by way of Appleseed.
Mecha are an intermediate step between infantry and tanks. Whereas CAV is based on hit points and a "fat infantry" model, and BT on slowly-degrading land battleships, Gears are more like really fast micro-tanks. Damage knocks you out quickly, is usually all-or-nothing, and the combat mechanic is based on penetration rather than ablation. >Real< tanks fuck everybody up when they show up. At least until you can get some ATGMs into them or get a vibro-blade up their strap. Infantry are slightly tougher than the other games, but mostly serve specialist roles as spotters and recon or light artillery. It's also squad-based, rather than the more pure skirmish gameplay of CAV and BT. C3 and Electronic Warfare are complicated and critical to success. "Stance" is a major component - basically choosing how aggro your pilots are being each turn affects their offensive and defensive performance. Games are ~15-30 units a side, sometimes a little more or less. Acceptable plastic starters, really damned expensive metals. Used to be a much larger community but the d20 crash hit them hard and they've pissed away a lot of their remaining payerbase over the last couple decades. Theoretically they're working on rebooting the line: one of our resident namefags just got picked up as a writer for them and he's been NDA/incommunicado since Christmas, which is a good sign.
>>
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>>64564478
I really would recommend the paper stuff. It looks pretty swank for cheap.
>>
>>64559727
Nostalgia.
If you have not played it back in the 90s you have no reason to.
>>
>>64561716
i think carnevale or 1602 have hex bases. Those are 28mm games too
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>>64566256
That's not necessarily true. People have proven capable of having nostalgia for a time they never experienced. Look at all the OSR stuff.
>>
>>64566841
RPGs are not miniature games. And they take the jank into consideration anyway.
Mordheim has big names behind them, but it's more like their early, janky work than a "gold standard" for anything. I don't actually consider Priestly a good designer.
There is no excuse to use phases in turns in this day and age, particularly for skirmish games.
>>
>>64564587
Jesus christ, please don't tell me that bumbling idiot bamba got hired as a writer.
>>
>>64566945
I didn't mean to imply it was good.
Really the best you can hope for from any GW rule set is "competent"
>>
>>64562889
>>64563848

As the anon said, CAV for faster larger games, BT for simulation games, they will take a long time as you don't have a single damage track which degrades but hit locations with armor value to track.

There is also alphastrike, basically a simplyfied BT verseion to field larger forces. But whenever that comes up CAV gets mentionened as doing that better (but I did not look into it very closely).

BT should just have new starter sets out. CAV is currently in kickstarter and you can late pledge which would be the cheapest rulebook with a couple of mechs option.

For mixed arms and also a relatively fast game there is also horizon wars from osprey. Mechs are cool in that game in that they are super flexible, they are just another type of units though (it's in the trove I think).

For BT test material see the BT thread and CAV has a quickstarter thingy on either reaper or talon.
>>
>>64556420
>>64559448
>>64559631
>>64560192
>>64560419
Alright, cheers guys. I've played a lot of Mordheim before, Frostgrave too.

I'll have a look at Vanguard and maybe Song of Blades and Heroes too. I'm currently hankering for a warband of my chaos warriors and wizards.
>>
>>64561673
>You will be able to grow the size of those units and make games bigger without adding new types of model to worry about.

As long as the mechanics support the larger number of models and still works, sure.

The main reason I'd be sceptical about it is that, if I were designing a game for, say, four models a side, I'd want to add enough depth to make that game feel that you get a complete "game experience" (can't think of a better term). I'd worry that those mechanics become tiresome and unwieldy if it was applied to a game with a higher model count, and if if the mechanics were cut back to make the game less unwieldy to support the higher model count, it'd run the risk of feeling incomplete and dull with a lower model count.

It's not a bad idea per se, it's just that working out the right amount of depth to the mechanics is a lot easier when you've got a fairly fixed amount of models in mind for each player. I like Battletech's systems, but god damn, I wouldn't want to transpose those mechanics onto each and every model in a game where players have, say, fifty models a side. Mechanics and the expected size of your game are linked; what is satisfying and works for four models a side might not work or be satisfying for twelve a side.
>>
>>64503035
>>64561379
Anyone got a Zona Alfa pdf? Even an older version would do.
>>
Which do you prefer?
-The weakest units can still damage all other units
-strongest units are immune or near immune to their attacks
>>
>>64569584
Personally I like my big tough units to feel tough rather than just being a punching bag with a lot of health.
>>
>>64569584
Everything should be able to kill anything, just sometimes very unreliably (like the only way for a basic shitter to wound ubereliteman is to score a crit).
It makes sure nothing is unbeatable and makes it so that there is always a way to come back.
>>
>>64569584
Whatever fits the settings fluff best.
A tank should be immune to small arms fire.
A giant flesh monster should be a meat bag anything can hurt.
>>
>>64571399
Go home, Mechanicus
>>
>>64571399
>A giant flesh monster should be a meat bag anything can hurt.

>I roll to punch the dragon in the face!
I don't think it works that way.
>>
>>64573328
It works WITH PRIDE
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>>64573328
Dragons are covered in armored scales though. They're not really "giant flesh monsters"
>>
Is deadzone any good or do people just buy it for the minis?
What are some good rulesets for Sci fi skirmish?
>>
What makes a good skirmish game in your eyes? Speed of play? Customization of squad?
>>
>>64576421
Specific, yet generic (as in it has orcs, humans,etc., but no "Empire of the Griffon" or some shit that can take only specific miniatures), good campaign system, a good activating system, should handle figures up to company size (~100 figures).
>>
>>64576421
Depends on the goal of the game. I think there are two types of skirmish game, campaign your dudes games like frostgrave and more competitive games with premade units like early war machine or malifaux.

For type 1 you want
1. Emergent narrative. The rules should be good at leading the players to telling themselves little stories. This can be through good campaign/army building rules and/or through combat that describes things more complexly allowing for a pretty cinematic battle system where things like disarms, blows to the head, parries ect exist.
2.High degrees of unit character. Units should be able to feel very unique. Generating a nee hero should be good inspiration for modeling if you want it to be. Everyone should hate Dave's fucking sorcerer for having that stupid ass pain in the dick magic staff and everyone should know about Brad's former hero who got a concussion and now can't do much anything.
3.speed. this of course contradicts the above two points as both slow the game down, but the key is finding a balance. Any game that forces you to wade through crunch too much will be poor.

The goal of such a game is to create fun stories and anecdotes between the players, as well as an excuse for inq28 type guys to model to their heart's content, not provide any sort of real competitive environment.

For game 2 who cares, those games suck.
Balance, legitimate tactical variety, and speed I guess.
>>
>>64566945
>There is no excuse to use phases in turns in this day and age, particularly for skirmish games
why?
>>
>>64576466
Are there any good games that can handle 10 minis to 100 minis and don't generate at either extreme?
>>
>>64576654
I'd say LotR SBG, but it bogs down a bit at the higher end.
>>
>>64576421
Depends if I'm in a competitive or narrative mood

Competitive:
Clear board readability (no your dudes)
Regularly updated rules
No more than 10 units per side
No power creep
No rube Goldberg scoring mechanics (malifaux was getting like this at the end of 2nd edition)
Static stat cards. If I see Guy A on the table I should know what he does and not need to see how you built him
No unit rules. Each model is its own entity

Narrative:
No model line behind the game. I don't want there to be a plastic pushing agenda behind the scenes
Full customization (go full on your dudes)
No more than 20 guys per side
Super fluffy scenerios
Solo play is a big plus
Character growth /campaign play
>>
>>64576668
>No model line behind the game
that seems strange. many rule sets have ranges, but being uncompetitive/narrative games they're simply providing additional options and in no way can force you to buy them.
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>>64576333
It's good, it's fast. It might be a bit weird if you expect a wargame with inches and free movement as it's grid based.

Command dice suck but thats about it.
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>>64576333
Best straightforward Sci-Fi skirmish out there at the moment. The cube system sounds restrictive, but it really isn't and there's no fucking about with movement sticks.

Getting regular support, new lists and balance passes.

Downsides: Some janky models, some annoying PVC models (though a lot less as a percentage as there used to be).
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>>64576668
I think a model line is fine as long as the rule set clearly isn't designed for that line only. Frostgrave for example.
The problem is if the rule set wants akavi dicksucker eliets and Fargo mcmculkin empire troops or whatever.

If the game just has rulesets for various common miniature types like goblins, dwarves, beastpeople ext and also makes some of those themselves I don't see a problem with it.
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>>64576333
I have no idea of its good but we had some guy shilling his own rule set here the other day.

Zone something
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>>64577380
Zone raiders. I backed it. Still waiting on the full rules to come out.
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>>64576624
Campaign games are a bad meme, just play an RPG, everyone will have a much better time.

>>64576421
I am definitely more on the competitive side of the spectrum, so here's my two cents:

1. Depth that a bigger game doesn't allow. It doesn't need to go full autistic with difference between a dagger and a kukhri, but it should have at least unit facing rules, reasons to outflank or ambush a unit, ability to drop units prone or knock enemies down etc.

2. Difference between factions that's visible, even if not at first glance. If there's literally no difference between a human and a gnoll troop (e.g. Frostgrave) what's the point of having the two races?

3. Internal and external balance and variety in list building. One of my gripes with campaign games is that they lock you into your chosen warband until you drop the campaign and start over. I am a very fickle list builder, one time I will have nothing but mounted units and another take maximum crossbowmen.

4. Quickplay. Either give the opponent something to do in your turn (like setting up ambushes or overwatch) or have alternate activation. A skirmish game should preferably be over in an hour and a half max. No fucking "movement phase, combat phase, magic phase" bullshit. Those just slow the game down. They are for card games, not skirmish games.

5. Ease of pick up and play games with strangers. Another thing against campaign games is that there's no way to play with random people since there is going to be a difference in experience and power level. A skirmish game should allow two people to just take a list and play on roughly even footing.
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>>64577562
>Campaign games are a bad meme, just play an RPG, everyone will have a much better time.
But anon, what about solo campaigns?
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>>64577589
:(
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>>64577562
>Campaign games are a bad meme, just play an RPG, everyone will have a much better time.
Speak for yourself, campaigns are my favourite way to play games. Never liked the lack of context you find in more traditional points games. Scenario games are a decent stopgap, but its not as good with the "your dudes" feel.
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>>64577589
SAD
Most I've seen looked mediocre. Just a basic AI to move figurines around. Extra negative points for having to roll for the monsters the same way you roll for your troops. That's just bad, unimaginative design.

Also there's plenty of solo board games that work better.

Or you know make some friends
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>>64577638
RPGs will give you more context, since you get to play parts other than the combat as well.
If you need a campaign wargame, play D&D 4e
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>>64577646
>make some friends
No.
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How is guildball actually? I ignored it because autistic spamming here when it dropped, but there are people who are bringing a bunch of teams to game day tomorrow. I was looking at the teams, and they seems pretty cool, but honestly idk if I want to play a sportsball game. That alone is putting me off.
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>>64577659
Here's the thing, I'm not interested in what RPGs bring to the table, I don't want to roleplay for individual characters, I'm more interested in the faction and why this battle is important in the context of the wider war. "your dudes" is a big appeal, but I don't actually want to roleplay them.
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>>64577562
>miniature game
>competitive

Go play a video game retard
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>>64577744
I kept seeing it but it looks too boring to me. Why play fantasy soccer when you could play fantasy football or sci fi rollerball?
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>>64577765
They have been competitive ever since chess.
It's a more lax competition than Magic or board games, but it's great winning because you are genuinely better rather than because you rolles a +5 AssRaping Sword for your Knight Magus in the previous game.
Also competitive gaming exposes bad game design like no tomorrow.
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So I promised to post my Manuscript Rabbits when they arrived. Pledged in early November, got them today in the middle of a massive snowstorm.

Casts are mostly crisp and detailed, though the striations on the slug knight's body are very soft. Mold lines are above-average, and flashing is relatively heavy. Rabbits' ears are stuck together. The sculpts themselves are fucking great, and extremely accurate to the manuscripts.
Scale: They match up well with Ral Partha's old 20mm D&D line, or as "Halflings" to Reaper/Hasslefree 28mm models. The Greyhound Knight's mount is about the size of a large panther, while the Hound in the top right is the same size as GW's old Elvish Hunting Dogs or the Wild Dogs that North Star and Crooked Dice's have versions of. Scale pics in a second.
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>>64577744
It's pretty good. Easy to pick up and play but has enough depth that you can't just solve it.
You can go for different play styles if you want (murder or going for goals) but you can't ignore what your opponent is going for
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>>64577754
>That campaign map
kino.
Where is it from, do you know?
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>>64577858
They look magnificent.
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>>64577765
>video game
>competitive

Go play a miniature game retard
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>>64577892
I don't actually know where that one is from, although it does bear some resemblance to the mighty empires campaign from GW.
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>>64576631
It's clunky and limits options if the game forces you to always move before taking an action, for example. It feels less fluid and way too rigid and limiting.

>>64576421
To me it all depends. Some games I want a really solid campaign system to play through with my friends and watch our forces grow as we weite a story around them through games. For others I just want a solid, fast and fun ruleset.

If I can get both then brilliant.

Also is there really *any* fluff behind Frostgrave? The core book basically has nothing. I get it's supposed to be a "use whatever you want" type game, but is there anything about the world? Are there cannon Elves, Dwarfs and such?
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>>64577765
>stop doing it wrong REEEEEE
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>>64577843
>Also competitive gaming exposes bad game design like no tomorrow.
Good luck explaining that to anyone here, they'll just sperg out and call you a waacfag for caring about game balance.
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>>64577911
>>64577843
From a more serious perspective I just think that miniature games (ones where you're expected to use hobby miniatures) are a medium who's strengths don't play well to competitive games.

The strengths of a miniature game over chit games or heroclix/mageknight games are that it allows the player to express themselves and engage in a comfy hobby. Competitive games however are generally going to limit what you can model and won't have much incentive to bother painting your minis all. I can't remember the last time someone posted a malifaux or warmachind photo with all minis painted.

Your dudes games by contrast give you every insentive to get stuck into the hobby.

So it's not that competitive games are bad, it's just that I personally feel its not a design that plays to the strong points of miniature games, and would better be served by pre painted minis or chits.
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>>64577858
Scale shoot. Tried to pick unpainted stuff other than my old D&D characters from, like, 1998. Only models I have from that line. Note that RP/Iron Wind Metals still sells them if you're into that particular nostalgia trip.


>>64577765
>>64577843
Too much competitive focus sinks games, because you >cannot< have a balanced asymmetric game without an immense amount of effort from both the designers and the players to meet halfway. Competitive players tend to seek out overwhelming advantage and aim to minimize uncertainty, which means the whole >point< of play/a game is undermined. It doesn't help that highly-competitive players are often violently lacking in sportsmanship and interpersonal skills.

On the other hand, a game that's entirely based on randomness (War, Craps) is also boring as fuck. So is playing against the nicest opponent in the world, if he can't actually challenge you. Balance that shit, man.
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>>64578352
>Scale shoot.
Thanks anon. That's pretty cool of you.
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>>64577892
Looks like OG Mighty Empires. The one from like the 80s/90s, not the remake with the plastic tiles.
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>>64578103
The flipside is that most of the time "your dudes" are just repeats of the like 5 basic types everyone shares. And don't tell me you're going to hack into your minis to replace a sword with an axe or remove a leg that got bitten off by a ghul last game. "Your dudes" stop being your dudes about 3 games in.

You like fiddling with bits, I like fiddling with units. There's nothing worse for me than monobuilds and playing the same damn force over and over again. I would be the guy remaking his mage every third game in a Frostgrave campaign. In RPGs I can steer my character development and play off of other people, so I can invest better. Also it doesn't usually require miniatures.

"Competitive" doesn't mean "only plays tournaments". It also means it's easy to get into the game and play pickup games. What's the point of having a cool big knight/monster/robot if you need to play 5 games to have a chance of rolling one in random treasure? And everyone starts with 5 shitty thugs with sticks? That's just boring.

You are simply looking at the hobby from a different perspective. Miniature games play very well into competitive playing since they add some dimensions other games don't – the third one in particular. When was the last time your summoned Magic creature or chess piece had higher ground or snuck around a building to shoot someone in the back? Miniature games allow this.

Building your own force is also a lot like building a Magic deck, but with the added uncertainty of terrain and rolls. It's just so damn fun.

>>64578352
>Competitive players tend to seek out overwhelming advantage and aim to minimize uncertainty
That's only true for GW's atrocious scene. In better games competitive players are the first to seek new things and shake up the meta.
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>>64578512
I think you're right.

It looks like Mighty Empires is hard (and expensive) to get ahold of.

Any idea of other sources on similar minis? Mostly castles and tiny cities and stuff.
Something from a board game would probably work.
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>>64578103
The whole 'your dudes' thing is so overblown. Almost no one gives a flying fuck to convert every little dude meticulously. People who convert are a very tiny niche. For the vast majority, your dudes is painting it. Considering GW is the biggest company people will gladly look for official paint schemes too for their dudes, and conversion and personalizing is which accessory you glue on.

Plus the whole competitive game things is utter shite since you could argue infinity is a more 'competitive' game than either of your examples and they're by and large painted.
>also malifaux and competitive. ok
>>
Any news on Confrontation Resurrection? SD said it would launch in 2019 but as far as I know they didn't say anything else, right?
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>>64578588
Ral Partha Europe sell some similar stuff from the old Empires game.
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>>64578588
Not European, but I know the Shogun/Samurai Swords game had neat mini castles.
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>>64579043
Found it anon, thanks. http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/empiresthe-miniatures-boardgame-c-135/buildings-c-135_157/?sort=20a&page=1

Looks a bit expensive. I think I might keep hunting. Or buy a few and recast them, if I can't find anything cheaper.
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>>64578762
I think the most "your dudes" game in existence is Gaslands, since you're converting literal toy cars. There's thousands if not millions of them, they're cheap and you can go ham with them very easily.
I mean there's probably quite a few shitty toy cars at my parents' house I used to play with when I was 5 or so. A few probably already look "post-apo". Just take some spare guns from action figures or miniatures and I would be ready to go.
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>>64556365
Gonna be that weird guy and say Alkemy. I normally hate close combat in games but Alkemy makes it really interesting, with a rock-paper-scissors thing going on before dice get rolled which gives advantages either to striking first or doing more damage. Models abilities degrade with damage, which I know isn't anything new but is handled with 3 types of dice to handle health levels, which is pretty elegant in my mind.

Plus most of the models are beautiful. Shame you can only get them from the manfacturer, who are in France. Rules are all free with a good list builder, with all the model stats on it- https://architekt.alkemy-the-game.com/alkemy/?L=1
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>>64579316
>Alkemy
I didn't know they were still around.
I thought they had died off.
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>>64579379
Nah, it's still very much alive. They had a kickstarter for a starter set recently which went OK and is all fully delivered as far as I know.

I saw some guy months ago on /awg/ saying they were recasts, but they 'aint, they're the real deal.
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>>64579535
Didn't the IP get purchased by another company or did they just rename their company?

I got a demo back at GenCon in 09, and it seemed a cool game. Fucking love the models.
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>>64578588
>Any idea of other sources on similar minis? Mostly castles and tiny cities and stuff.
>Something from a board game would probably work.
Take a gander at 1:1200, 1:2500, and 1:3000. They're very popular scales with ship modellers, and if you're looking for modern buildings they're a great source. Japanese modelmakers also have a whole bunch of ultramicro stuff, in particular medieval Japanese castles and landmarks (giant Bhudda, that sort of thing).

If you're okay with 6mm, GHQ and a few other Micro Armor games companies have highly-detailed pewter buildings from Early Modern through late 20th-c. Make good representational figs.

3mm is >mostly< armor and SF, with a few Napoleonics thrown in for seasoning.

>>64579222
If you're planning to recast, check out auction sites for incomplete games and accessory sets. They tend to sell for quite a bit less than "complete" games and all you need is one good bit. On the other hand, getting the safety gear and starter mats for recasting is gonna run you ~$50-70. For this kind of model I'd strongly recommend Alumilite "Hi-Strength", it's what I've had the best luck with while pulling molds with a lot of tiny undercuts and extremely fine detail. You'll probably blow the mold after ~25-30 pulls, the stuff is extremely flexible but only has moderate shear strength.
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>>64579270
That's actually a pretty good example. Other games where there aren't minis lines in existence will definitely pump up that desire, but gaslands is really one where there's a real desire to pimp out those cars.
>>
Anyone have a link to the base Frostgrave pdf?
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>>64579758
It's a game with a pretty tortuous history, as it got bought up twice. The original company was Kraken Editions, who went bust and Studio 38 picked it up, who also went bust. Then some fans put together a bunch of money to buy up the IP to keep the game alive, under the name Alchemist Miniatures. That happened back in 2013.
Alchemist Miniatures also changed the format substantially What used to be a 300 points game on a 3'x4' board went to a format called "Alkemy Blitz", which is 180 points on a 2'x2' board.

Give it a whirl man, you won't regret it! It's an easy enough game to proxy to see if you still like it. My Avalonians (the not-mediaevil Europe faction who live in a massive swamp all comprised of one sentient tree called the Beathacrann, which 'gifts' the people with animate plant grafts) are all MoMiniaturas and Black Tree design stuff. But, as you say, the models are great.
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>>64579931
>1:1200
>6mm
>3mm
Thanks a lot m8. Just finding the right scales to look at has helped a lot.
Found some cool stuff already.
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>>64580718
No worries. we tend to get stuck into our own little kingdoms and forget that there's a bunch of other shit out there to repurpose. Case in point: Gallery Glass. It's super-cheap clear acryl gel intended for making faux stained-glass windows, and despite some shrinkage issues it makes great water and gore effects.
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>>64577858
>>64578352
those are super cute. Also props for sharing scale shots, that is always useful.
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>>64580080
The originals are great. The newer sculpts that came out after it died the first time? Not so much...
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Hey guys. Zone Raiders anon again. Interesting convo about skirmish games, and I've had very much many of the same thoughts over the last few months. That said, a lot of different games have different objectives.
Got back to writing an update on how this game works. 7 days of KS left, but check out building a team, some example rosters, and a link again to the demo rules:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/346620204/zone-raiders-a-miniatures-campaign-skirmish-game/posts/2413794
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>>64585299
>19 defense on that Terran Marine (reclaimer Graves)
And here I was, thinking this was an infantry game.
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>>64585299
Is that a Hasslefree platypus?
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>>64585504
Yeah, it's the tankiest build in the game. It's vulnerable to a few things, such as the Tech Jammer or other attacks which can disable armor for a turn, or weapons with Brutal, which always inflict a wound on a hit even if it's stopped. Helps add on that 'use teamwork to defeat foes' element.

>>64585564
Yep. Railgun Platypus is an amazingly charismatic model.
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>>64578011
>Also is there really *any* fluff behind Frostgrave?

Yes, more implicit than explicit though.
I would assume you can get a lot more of the fluff from the books (novels not rulebooks).
Osprey has a sale going if you want to check them out.

And sorry have not read them so can't comment on quality.
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>>64585299
What models are those you guys used for the Stalker team?
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>>64585943
That Zone Stalker team is mostly Mantic, with a model from Miniature 13 (the middle one) and Scotia Grendel. (the rightmost one)
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>>64585989
Thanks!
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>>64585299
Who's the winged gal between the two puppetswar troopers?
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>>64586030
She's a Reaper Sophie from one year that was scifi. Now serving as a Reclaimer with some improved mobility on her armor. One of my favorites for sure.
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Does anyone knows if a wargaming magazine focused on /awg/ stuff exists?

The /hwg/ ones look great, with hex and chit wargames, reviews, new campaigns and scenarios.
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>>64585299
Backed this. When would the PDF be released to backers?
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>>64578762
I'd argue that "Your Dudes" can be more than the painting and modelling aspects, but about sets of rules which allow for models to feel mechanically unique. Whether that's through using a system where you can apply special rules to individual models, or through a campaign / progression system where your dudes grow and change over time, or a combination of both, or some other system I can't think of.

So it's not just "my guy with a machine gun looks different from your guy with a machine gun, therefore it's all about Your Dudes", it's "my guy with a machine gun is good at laying down suppressing fire, while your dude with a machine gun is good at lugging it around and firing from the hip wtf, therefore it's all about Your Dudes".
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>>64587200
>focused on /awg/ stuff
Focused and awg , which is by definition diverse, does not seem to fit well together.

Wargames Illustrated looks at at wide range of topics and games, so that might fit, otherwise no idea.
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>>64577754
>Here's the thing, I'm not interested in what RPGs bring to the table, I don't want to roleplay for individual characters

Then dont't and just use the advancement stuff. No one is forcing you to do it.
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>>64578011
SoG does exactly that and it's fantastic, probably one of the best age of sail games out there. as everything, simply depends on implementation. there are plenty of clunky and option restricted games which dont feature phases
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>>64588356
Or I could just use a good campaign system, because they do everything I want?
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>>64588601
Sure do you have suggestions for one?
I'm always looking for a good campaing system.
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>>64588644
I haven't played and generic ones, but I've had fun with simple fivecore, FFOT campaigns and even playing mighty empires back in the day.
I'm actually currently writing a game that revolves around its campaign
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While on the topic of rpgs, has anyone played dungeon/starport scum and or five leagues/parsecs from ...

How good are they for coop play? How good are they for campaing play?
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>>64578762
>has no club to convert minis with between sessions
luckily, not everyone is as wanting
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New Thread
>>64588991
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Any news on Warzone? Did Cabinet manage to give the license to someone else?
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>>64585299
Backed it. Is there space magic?



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