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Cheerleading is a terrible mechanic edition.

What is /awg/?
A thread to talk about minis and games which fall between the cracks, or peoples' homebrew wargames. The Historical Wargames General doesn't entertain fantasy (for good reason) and the other threads are locked to very specific games, so this thread isn't tied to a game, or a genre, let's talk about fun wargames.

Any scale, any genre, any company, any minis. Skirmishers welcome. Rules designers welcome.

>Examples of games that qualify
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miniature_wargames
Grimdark Future, Age of Fantasy, Mighty Armies, Dragon Rampant, Of Gods and Mortals, Frostgrave, Ghost Archipelago, Hordes of the Things, Songs of Blades and Heroes, Freebooter's Fate, Dark Age, Beyond the Gates of Antares, LotR and anything that doesn't necessarily have a dedicated thread (gorkamundheim).

>Places to get minis
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D2DbNJ2mYAUxh5P9Pq9NZqS5tXHGn0i2JhZchEwbA2I/edit?usp=sharing

>The Novice Troves
https://pastebin.com/MjtsC8AX (embed)
https://mega.nz/#F!zSYW0I4a!vXh8-UPi_tWXpJES_-p4zg

>News
https://ttfix.blogspot.com
https://wargameterrain.blogspot.com


>Old Thread
>>63926954

>Thread Question
What's your favorite awg mechanic?

>Painting Event Details
>Rules
Paint a squad. The exact definition of how many are in a squad is up to you, but in it's most basic form, paint a group of guys that look like they belong together.
>Due date
2/5/19
>I can't paint because X problem
Then don't do it
>I can paint but I'm worried about X problem
We don't care. Paint it, you dillweed
>>
>>63988076
Neat. We had about 800 in my school and no club had more than a dozen kids.
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>>63987867
Why would you even do that ?
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>>63987867
>skirmish version of a game that uses square bases uses square bases
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>>63988413
>What's your favorite awg mechanic?
I love the flanking and morale/losses in KoW. I can't help but think it's a pretty elegant solution
>>
>>63988467
Pressured into playing Age of Sigmar by group.

>>63988497
Square bases? Why would you play Kings of War if you're not going to multi-base?
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>>63988550
You don't even need round bases for AoS, this shitpile of a rulest accepts everything as long as it's GW.

>>63988550
To switch easily between systems.
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>>63988578
False, there are no rules for the rocket battery.
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>>63988607
You have to pull your eyes to look asian and say "ping pong nip nong" every time you want to fire.
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>>63988428
We had a network in Sydney, one school had over 60 students in their games club, mind you it was about 2000 students for the whole school.
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>>63988509
I really like them to. They really make flanking and ready charges devistating.
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>>63988413
Anyone here play Heroclix?
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>>63989665
I was into it briefly. It's a fun game, but I'm not a fan of TCGs or playing against people who are willing to spend $300 on a a team of badly painted miniatures and act smug when they beat you. I'm not bitter.

I'm also sick of seeing Thor in every god damn set.
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>>63988413
>Cheerleading

So after all the derailing, trolling, and strawmanning that completely ruined the thread you decide to throw that into the OP of all things. Its almost as if you enjoy awg being down the shitter lately. Unbelievable.
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Anyone know a source on this?

>>63990493

Christ mate, you are one precious vagina. I find your whinging with no positive contributions to be more of a problem. /awg/'s good.
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>>63991140
Scratch built the golem and turret using greenstuff/milliput and xps foam. I can't remember what he used for the character's head, but the pauldron/goggles/beard are all green stuff.

His IG: perpetual_painter
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>>63991225

Wow, so he did. No chance of buying one then.

Turns out he also sculpted this Beetle Knight for himself that I also really liked but didn't know the manufacturer.
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>>63991140
I love how elitist this board has become over time. Top fucking notch, I too, hate normies lulul
>>
>>63990493
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>>63988413
Those female faces arent ugly as fuck.... wtf is going on?
>>
How's everyone's painting going.
I "finnshed" but now there are more models I want to add to the squad.
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>>63991698

I got the basecoats down on the things I actually wanted to paint then got bored.

Then I remembered there's some Dreamblade Iron Thugs (Chain Golems) I got that will literally take me a couple of hours to paint and base, when most miniatures take me a week so I'm excited to get home at smash them out.
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>>63991697
This is the power of not GW.
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>>63991781
>most miniatures take me a week
Why?
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>>63992264
You'd be surprised how many people in the hobby try to brag about how long it takes them to paint something. It's just another cringey part of the giant socially inept part of the hobby
>>
>>63991698

I realized there's a part of one of my models missing and it's irritating the fuck out of me. Maybe I can order something from the company and they can throw in the part with it.

>>63982368
You're right, I forgot about the Ito clan, I liked a lot of their snake designs, and I don't think I actually saw that samurai model before (It's pretty good stuff). I wish the oni faction looked less goofy, maybe more like stuff from nioh, but I guess its sticking close to source material.
>>
>>63992341
>Namefag digging back into the archived thread to find the other namefag and jerk him off. Peak /awg/
>>
>>63989665
Heroclix are pretty fun. I like buying the odd booster and selling the chases on the internet happens pretty often for me honestly. Where I live now though the community is like all old dudes and their kids. Destroying little Timmy after trying to lose is sort of mortifying.
>>
>>63992311
Once I wanted a skellington army, primed bone+ white zenithal, layers on weapons and shield, dip in quickshade, a turn in the salad drier, base with artificial sand.
Less than 10 minutes per mini.
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>>63992264

I'm just a really slow painter because I get tired or distracted; and didn't always use decent brushes and tools and such, making it seem like much more effort. Especially miniatures that require more prep, like Reaper Bones or converting rubbery toys or whatever.

I do have better gear and paints now, and stuff like Duncan and Dr Faust's videos helped me too. If I really want to paint something now it'll take me two nights or something.

>>63992311

No bragging here, I wish I could get 200 miniatures painted a year like some blogs I read. Do you need a hug mate?
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>>63992595
>Getting tired from painting
>Bones being high on the prep time list
>dO u NeEd a HuG mAtE?

>Socially inept
Yeah. checks out.
>>
>>63992595
Washes and drybrushing is my life saver.

I've also got to the point where I'm okay with doing a mediocre job. I'd rather have a dozen meh painted models than one amazing one and a sea of grey.
>>
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>>63991225
The heads look like mantic's ogres
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>>63991140
I dig it, from the thumbnail though it looked like a pizza monster with a fancy beret.
>>
What are some good zombie games? Last thread most people suggested “zombies!” But it seems to have aged rather poorly.
>>
>>63990183
Thor is legit everywhere. Though I do personally collect because my wife and kiddo are in to board games and I thought of this as a means to get them in to a fun on going ongoing board game and starting a family collection of something we and guests can play. I would have to say don't play tourneys. Find people who are in to board games and give it a go. Especially these days with cape movies being big. Don't say its a war game, just call it a Comic book based board game and people will be inclined to check it out.
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>>63993696
I love the Zombicide games. You can find them for a decent price here and there. And has expansions. The models alone are a great reason to get them. I prefer the medieval setting more than the modern though.
>>
>>63993315
Pimp.

Where is it from? Google says "Figurine" thanks google.
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>>63991140
>>63991306
Man, I really wish I had the time (and talent) to sculpt all my own shit.
>>63993696
>>
>>63993696
"Zombies!" is pretty fun. The Models aren't real great compared to newer stuff.

Zombicide has great minis, but the rules are pretty ass. It suffers from the "alpha player" type problem where there are pretty clear right and wrong choices, so every turn is done by committee, instead of letting players do their own thing.

I like Twilight Creations: The Zombie Survival Board Game. It's an interesting twist on the genre. It's a last player standing home defense game.

If you mean zombie war games, I couldn't say. Zombies are pretty simple creatures, I'd honestly say make your own.
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>>63992391
To be fair, I think a win should be earned, not given. But I also don't play tourneys, just with family and friends. I'm one of those older dudes with a kid. Though the misses and him take L's more than wins we have a great time. Was going to get in to Warhammer 40k again, but realized that I didn't want to just hand thousands of dollars to Games Workshop these days, for 3 times as few figures. So Heroclix was another option for an on going collection that the whole family could whip up a team and play with in 30 minutes.

I also started collecting my older board games from my past I lost in moves and with time. And Heroclix was something I missed having too, back in the day when everyone I knew was a comic guy and cape movies were barely a thing.
>>
>>63993778
Looks like an upcoming "Baron Tonguelick Lord of Warts" by privateer press.
Check the image name.
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>>63993945
>Baron
>Lord of War(ts)
The word play makes me love this character even more.
>>
>>63993945
Thanks friend. I herped when I should have derped.
>>
>>63993945
Any word on what's happening in the Grymkin CID?
>>
>>63993696

>Good zombie games

As far as wargaming is concerned, I've heard good things about mantics Walking Dead All Out War game. You can buy kickstarter lots off of folks second hand at a good price. Pretty sure it's got solo rules you can turn into coop, but otherwise it's you vs someone else with zombies being a neutral third party that attacks whoever is making the most noise/in line of sight.

Zombies!!! was fun, but that was like 15 years ago. It's been a long time since I played it, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't aged well at all. I'm sure it's fun enough, but it's incredibly simple, and it also has "gotcha!" elements to it. Unless you can get it stupidly cheap, your money is better spent elsewhere.

Zombicide is great stuff, but unless you really like modern aesthetics, go with black plague. It's like zombicide 1.5. They fixed a few of the rules and upgraded the components quite a bit. It's still the same zombicide, but the fixes made it much better.

I guess I should have asked if you're looking for a war game with zombies or a board game. There's a ton of board games with zombies, but there aren't a whole lot of wargames that use zombies, or at least use the traditional concept of one, by which I mean a neutral npc faction. There's a ton of games that use zombies as cheap tarpit infantry controlled by others.
>>
>>63993696
I know this will be met with autistic screeches of 'Shill', but has anyone tried out the zombie game Ash published through Osprey, Last Days?
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>>63994886
It's bad. What else did you expect when you slap an influencer/promoter on the cover to market it?
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>>63994922
Why's it bad?
The cover has his name on it, but that's because he wrote it.
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>>63995088
And he's not someone who has experience writing rules systems and it shows? logical progression anon.
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>>63995341
How's it show?
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>>63988413
>What's your favorite awg mechanic?
I like the combat mechanic in World of Twilight. You pick how much attack or defense you want to use by picking "stones" and then put them in a cup, shake it and then flip it over to see what comes up heads or tails. It's a neat idra to let you choose how you want to fight to try and either keep guys alive or try and injure the enemy.

Bushido does something like that, too, if I remember. Allocate dice to attack and defense. Just a cool mechanic if you ask me.

>>63989665
I did back in the day. Had some shit that was worth a decent amouny of cash and didn't even realize it. Now I get my superhero fix via Batman, although I do miss having Iron man fly around and sucker punch people.

I've debated getting back into it, but the whole blind booster thing just puts me off.
>>
>>63995349
It's the dungeon saga version of a good zombie game. The zombies are one of the worst parts of the game. They're weak, barely show up, and feel irrelevant while the game plays out as a static gunfight because of shitty gun rules that aren't balanced properly.
>>
Gates Of Antares recently caught my eye, and looks kind of fun. But, anybody here got actual experience, is it a good game in your humble opinions? Also, while this is obviously a very local thing, does it have any sort of community generally?
>>
>>63995451
Not to mention most of the reviews you find that are actually positive are literally blogs that are friends with the rule writer and were given their copies. Not exactly objective when they paint all the negatives as positives
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>>63995451
I dunno anything about dungeon saga, so the comparison falls flat for me, unfortunately.

Zombies being irrelevant and rare seems a problem, though. What's wrong with the guns - is cover too good, or something?

Anybody got a PDF for it?
>>
>>63994660
>Zombicide
The miniatures are really, really bad though. I got the S1 box pretty cheap and was sorely disappointed, even by boardgame plastic standards.
Also, the gameplay felt really samey and after like three games we all felt that a) there's no point to playing it as anything but a solo game and b) we had seen everything the game has to offer by game two.
In any case, it's also a boardgame and not a wargame, not in any capacity at all.
>>
Safe!
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>>63996333
I thought they were pretty okay. The zombie ones at least.
The heroes were kinda meh.

Never painted them though, so I couldn't say for sure.
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>>63996333
I got black plague and the Zombies i painted a while ago are really not that bad. (for board game minis). I'm pretty sure the heroes will look good too if i ever can find the spirit to actually paint them.

What you said about the game itself i can only agree though. Once you understood the mechanics it becomes a rather boring grind. Its fun once in a while with new people though, but nothing you can play every week and always experience something new or interesting.
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>>63996333
I played it all of twice, and it lost it's appeal real fast.

Then I'm not a big fan of the zombie apocalypse thing, it just always feels the same, so maybe I'm not the target audience.

>>63995512
This is, sadly, a big problem in the industry. Either the reviewer is a friend of the person making the game, or they don't dare sayingthing negative because then company A might stop sending them freebies (see the "What Would Patton Do?" podcast and Team Yankee for a prime example). It's part of why I never ask my friends in the industry for free stuff to review, just don't wanna deal with the hassle involved.
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>>63995451
I just read a "Pijlie" blogspot review of the game, and his views mirror yours - such that I muse you either read his review, or are him.

But to give more context here about the game, and highlighting his review for those interested (it's not long, though):
It seems zombies only show up on a roll of 7 or higher (on a d6), and each "Noise" instance is a +1, and and a 7+ you (seemingly) roll on another table to see how many (possibly none, apparently) actually arrive - making them somewhat rare. Noise is generated by gunfire and running and stuff.
Then when they do arrive, they're slow and shitty at melee, and even if they down you, you have a "very good" chance of being fine.

For guns, apparently they have very high ranges and cover provides small benefits, making it kind of irrelevant (?). He also states fights lead to static shootouts between starting zones, but frankly that part seems a mistake in terrain.
Overwatch is apparently quite good, contributing to static play.
You'd think all this shooting would lead to a lot of Noise for zombies, but I dunno.

Dogs are bad (unable to run, carry loot, learn). Cars have absolutely no rules.

--
These problems seem odd, yeah. Things that are relatively easy to fix with number or basic system tweaks, and definitely things that should come up during critical playtesting or honest feedback.
The author has some houserules, but I dunno how they are. He also doesn't recommend any alternatives, which is unfortunate.
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>>64000009
I think long ranges on guns is fine, especially if you're going for accuracy.

Setting up zombies to spawn in your deployments seems like a pretty good way to stop static play.

It seems like the problem isn't that their ideas were bad, but that the implementation was.
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>>63996333
I painted a bunch of zombicide minis for a friend who owns the game and they're not that bad. Sure they aren't wargaming quality but I didn't really expect that from a boardgame. I feel like calling them 'really, really bad' is disingenuous.
>>
>>64000396
Aye, guns having long range is totally fine to me, it's just with ranges like that you obviously need infinity-levels of terrain. That is, fucking everywhere and there should be no sight-lines between deployment zones.
A slight flaw if the book doesn't tell you this at all, but frankly I think it's not some 300 IQ maneuver nor is it some absurd requirement to go "oh, I should have more than 5 blocks of terrain" when you see weapon ranges.

Looking at GMGs videos on June 26 and Oct 23, the zombies do spawn "on the table edge closest to you", you roll for every one, and a 7+ means a zombie appears. This makes me wonder at the guy's review, frankly.

On GMG's Episode 9 (the October one that I am watching as I post this specifically to see Noise rules), Ash immediately gets 3 zombies spawning extremely close to his men; 2 of them immediately mob a dude.
What is particularly noticeable here to me is how many dang rolls you do at the end of a turn - a roll for every noise cluster "bunch" (the bunches seem to be sorted based on their source, namely per-character) can add up to a bunch of rolling.
>>
>>63999227
Its not limited to just this industry. Pretty much every form of entertainment review is stuck in some form of that problem.
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>>64000951
Yeah. It's what spawned gamer gate, innit?
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>>64000951

Indeed, I'm glad it's not too bad with wargames compared to film, video games or even RPGs which seem increasingly in the mainstream.

Probably because it's a smaller industry, and there's a bit more of a barrier to entry. Anyone can sit and watch a film, but not many want to sit and paint an army or learn mildly complex rulesets weekly.
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>>63995485

Played it like five times. Pretty fun but limited fandbase in my experience outside of maybe england.

Also what was that skirmish game on here with the great pigmen sculpts?
>>
>>64000992
Basically. Ignoring the shitstorm that followed, it kicked off when someone reviewed a game that he was listed in the game credits without disclosing his relationship with the game. It was a mild breach in ethics, but the shitstorm that followed showed what was wrong with the community that surrounds video games.

>>64001211
Yeah, the stories you hear about the other industries makes you so glad no one big is interested in wargames.
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>>64000510
Maybe my batch was bad or it's because they are S1, but I they really are they bad.
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>>64001450
Relicblade.
>>
Holy fucking shit the shills for Ash are so aggressive in this general every damn time. We get it you like him, I dont need to read your dissertations defending him every fucking time. If I could just filter it all out I gladly would because the whiteknighting ruins this general
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>>64001450
Relic Blade?
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>>64001547
K.
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>>64001547
>Whenever something stupid becomes obssessed over by a handful of posters in here and the general goes down the shitter I stop coming until a new one goes up. Try it, it'll save you the headache
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>>64001547

>I DONT LIKE HIM SO STOP TALKING ABOUT HIM
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>>64001719
You could also easily say that the amount of comments repeating themselves just to defend him far FAR outweigh any negative ones about him. It's the hot button on awg where it completely takes over the general and produces 0 discussion
>I LIKE HIM SO KEEP TALKING ABOUT HIM REEE
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>>64001793
K.
>>
Where do you guys keep all your components? I can't decide if I should store this crap with my terrain or in it's own carrying case. So many damn tokens
>>
Hydra Miniatures are very cool. Shame they're a bit expensive from the UK retailer.

>>64001547

I only really discovered who the guy was last week but I can't really see anyone "defending" him here, all the posts further up say his Osprey game isn't very good.

Simmer down, mate.
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>>64001997

I have like 10 organiser boxes in various sizes, just got them from the local bargain store.
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>>64002000
I think Ash broke his heart, and he can't get over it.
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>>64001997
>Where do you guys keep all your components? I can't decide if I should store this crap with my terrain or in it's own carrying case. So many damn tokens
My tokens for Trek Wing, Armada and similar games go into plamo-like boxes I picked up at Harbor Freight for like $2/pop.

I also have charts for using the Battlefleet:Gothic dice as counters in quite a few games.
It's a pretty rare game/faction that actually needs more than ~6 types of token on the table, and the dice are really easy to track, transport, and reference (though they are a bit bulky). Just print one of these off, glue it to a 5x7 or 3x5 file card, and use it as a quick reference.

If you don't have access to BF:G dice (or your opponents are sticklers about marker types), then you can do something very similar by printing off and gluing markers to a blank die. You can get those in lots from ~10 to a gross (144) from Amazon, Aliexpress, or most board game supply shops. Sticker paper is also quite cheap, or you can stencil the dice with an airbrush and the same general kinds of dyes you'd use for Lego.
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>>64002540

>using dice as multi use tokens

That's damn clever anon, I'll have to figure out how to incorporate that.
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>>64001547
Who the fuck is Ash?
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>>64002715
A guy who makes awg videos when almost no one does so everyone around here gets extremely passionate about him
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>>64002715
Ash Barker. "Guerrilla Miniature Games" on youtube, and wrote The Last Days, a zombie warband wargame.
The second part is why he came up in this topic
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>>64002761
>Hi ash...
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>>64002802
I'm not ash, but hi.
What's with the greentext?
>>
The best "zombie" game I played was using Mordheim rules with each player using 1 character and a GM controlling the zombies (and other undead).
We never really expanded on it past a one off "survive the night" type scenario but there was certainly room for more.

I would say that feeling of "us vs the dead" was probably the most important thing and really any skirmish rule set can pull it off fine with the right group. Play through it using just whatever the "core" rules of the system are, then if you are playing repeated play discuss possible extra rules you could add.
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>>64002825
What's with the people who type so oddly who clearly only show up whenever he's mentioned and don't understand the conventions here.
> How strange. Hmm. Hmm. I wonder who it could be
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>>64002826
Interesting idea.
I'd be tempted to just shove zombies into TnT, if that were the case.
It has fairly-threatening zombies already in it, but they're part of a specific scenario. They even have some simple rules on controlling them.
I don't think I'd just just slap that "scenario" into every match though as it really warps the fight, given that the "zombie nests" just fuckin' spawn 1d3 zombies endlessly.

Porting a noise feature into it using the zombies would basically be all you need at that point.

>>64002856
It's me, your mother. Go to bed.
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>>64002938
Tnt was my first idea when it comes to a zombie game. Its already perfect for it if you hack it a tiny bit.

And also, we are that guys customers. He's a youtube influencer. If I didn't see him with the site open on his phone already it wouldnt be a stretch to imagine he's active here. That's common sense for content creators in 2019.
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>>64002938

Yeah we didn't even really need a GM for the most part (though it did help to add curve balls and sudden events which would take a bit more time to write up into a "random event" table otherwise) a basic "zombie action flowchart" type thing would have done fine.
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>>63991225
He used Mantic ogres and abyssald arves for the head and parts of the golem. Mantic's painting competitions require you to mostly use Mantic stuff, and when you sculpt everything yourself it doesn't count against that.
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>>64002648
I did that when I played Dystopian Wars. Got some blank d6 from a local educational supply store, had a buddy that made up stickers for statuses and shit. Worked fairly well.

>>64002826
Sounds like that could be fun. I think being able to make your own character would add to the enjoyment.

Speaking of Mordhiem: if I do Pirates should I just bank on low model count to give guys pistols?
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>>63993790
Time leads to talent. You can't put in 20-30 mins a day into sculpting? Are you a Mormon who works for NASA with spare time spent feeding the homeless?

That dude has a job and a family. Still manages to get in some personal time.
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>>64004264
If I was going for gameplay over character a little more I think I would just use a Marienburg Mercenary warband fluffed out as pirates and use the extra 100gc to fund pistols for the crew.
>>
Need halfings for warlords of erehwon. What y'all got?
>>
Have you peeped the OP?

>https://www.macrocosm.co.uk/product-category/fantasy/fantasy-halflings/

>https://www.macrocosm.co.uk/product-category/fantasy/old-salt-fantasy-pirate-ranges/pirate-halflings/

>https://www.warmongerminiatures.com/collections/halflings

>https://www.alternative-armies.com/search?q=halfling
>>
>>64004510
TTCombat has the pledge manager for their Halflings open, including a bundle for Warlords of Erehwon (Supposedly they are supplying the official Halfling models for the game). At Kickstarter pledge prices they are the cheapest halfling miniatures have ever been outside of just using 1/72 historicals.

Warploque and Westfalia have my absolute favorite Halfling sculpts you can get right now. Mirlington's are close to as cheap as they get if you want that.

Then of course you can do what Gygax did which is to use Airfix Robin Hood figures which are still made I believe.
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>>64004265
I'm working and going to school full time.
I don't really even have time to shit post.
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>>64004863
No time to shit post? Well, shit...
>>
How does Priestley's "bag of dice you draw from" initiative-system avoid over-emphasizing having a bunch of elements just to get more dice which which you can better control the "activation game"?

I mean the system he uses in Gates of Antares, Bolt Action I think, and will be using in Warlords of Nowhere.
>>
>>64005163

Do the system you listed have cheese lists that do things like that? Reminds me of strontium dogs, there are cards that take your opponents chits out, and some that put yours in. I like the system well enough, but I'm not sure how I feel about adding in random stuff that starts to mess with the bag contents.
>>
>>64005199
Good question, one I can't answer.

I could see it maybe avoiding it by just not having access to cheap units you want to use for that purpose, as well as having Force Limits, eg you can only bring 2-5 "Core"-type units, and as those units are also your mainline units wasting those slots on dice-fodder is a bad idea.

But I don't actually play any of those games, and don't see lists. I was just wondering about the pros and cons of the "dice-bag" system versus just a normal alternating activation system and how you might better use those pros or mitigate the cons.
>>
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>>64005163
>How does Priestley's "bag of dice you draw from" initiative-system avoid over-emphasizing having a bunch of elements just to get more dice which which you can better control the "activation game"?
if you take more units you consequently have weaker units and less special weapons, which are important in GoA at least since your dudes fuck off if the squad morale breaks. It's also not a shooting gallery, you got overwatch and reaction rules that allow you to counter.
Some armies that may rely on such tactics also come with rules that catch that. So Ghar for example throw a black dice in the bag that makes their walker's reactors overheat if you pull it out the bag.
>>
>>64005163
I've never really noticed it being an issue, to be honest. Most times you're running smaller squads anyway just by how the game is designed. But even if you run bigger squads than your opponent you'll have more staying power per squad.

I can see how it *could* be a problem, though, but my experience hasn't really lead to it being broken or anything like that.

Honestly; most of the time I see people running small squads it's so they can have more points to pump into heavy shit like tanks than spamming infantry.
>>
>>64005260
>>64005264
Huh. Interesting, then.
Are point costs for "cheap" units still not that cheap relative to special weapons teams and whatnot?

>>64005264
>Most times you're running smaller squads anyway just by how the game is designed
How's that?
>>
>>64005458
My experience with Bolt Action is that smalller squads are more points efficient, and they present a smaller target to the enemy. I ran a 10 man squad a few times, but honestly found that two five man squads can do the same output while being able to get into position easier.

Most squads start at 4 or 5 guys, and taking more doesn't have many benefits.
>>
>>64004492
That's a good point, but I like to use the official list if possible.

The problem I'm having is finding pirate models with more than swords and pistols. Freebooter's Fate has lovely models, but the weapon loadout is fairly limited. Same with Black Scorpion: some Great models but tricky to build a warband that's WYSIWYG (not that my friends would probably care that much if I said "these guys don't actually have pistols").
>>
>>64005458
>Are point costs for "cheap" units still not that cheap relative to special weapons teams and whatnot?
you can download the army lists from warlord for free, as well as a streamlined version of the core rules.
Army composition kind of dictates how many points you can spent on upgrades and elites.
>>
>>64005577
Yeah checking it out and, roughly speaking except for the biggest tanks (which are heavily limited), the variance in point costs between base things is relatively small. Roughly 95-140 pts for most things, although tanks can be 200 or 300 easy (and likely limited to just 1)
The Support Teams also seem to be extremely cheap, though, at about 35pts. Of course, spamming these deprives you of slots needed for special weapons to deal with threats that aren't "generic infantry."
Cool.
>>
Any more word about Warlords of Nowhere yet?
>>
>>64008297
There has been a steady trickle of poorly spelled snippets about the various armies on fb.
>>
>>64005556
>The problem I'm having is finding pirate models with more than swords and pistols.
Have you checked both Privateer's press Mercenaries line and Wargames Foundry Pirates and Swashbucklers?
>>
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So, I've been wondering if there's an interesting fantasy skirmish system that's a little bit "anything goes" when it comes to models used, but still 28mm/28mm heroic. Mordheim strikes me as not being as flexible when it comes to variety of models/profiles in the same warband. I'm looking for something that's more in the flavour of "motley crew of outcasts from various races"
>>
>>64009227
Frostgrave has a rather high degree of abstraction, so you can use any model with the right wargear to represent each soldier archetype.
If you are looking for something that reflects that in the rules you could look into song of blades and heroes.
From what I understand Kobolds and Cobblestones is probably a mixed race mordheim type game right out of the box.
>>
>>64009227
You could look at Open Combat. You stat your guys out so you can really make a team of whatever models you want.

It just doesn't have a magic system or black powder, yet. I'm waiting for the black powder suppliment to try and get my friends to do a pirate campaign.

>>64008836
>>PP Pirates
Totally forgot they did pirates. Maybe I'll take a look at those. Really I just want an excuse to buy the Black Scorpion stuff. Love their models.
>>
>>64009227
A Song of Blade and Heroes does that. It has rules for making your own units even.
>>
>>64009766
>Frostgrave has a rather high degree of abstraction, so you can use any model with the right wargear to represent each soldier archetype.
This translates as "Frostgrave has profiles for knights and thieves but you can totally pretend they are really dwarves and halflings if you want". The "anything goes" attitude sort of hits a brick wall when only the wizards matter and everyone else is expendable and faceless goons. Frostgrave has the very clear design goal of wizard battles in a ruined city, I don't understand why /awg/ insists on shoehorning it in everytime someone asks for a fantasy warband skirmish game.
>>
>>64009227
Vanguard does that. As long as the models match the rules pretty well, and you can tell what is what, you can use just about anything.

I'm thinking about using Warhammer skinks in a goblin warband.
>>
>>64010254
You even have the Northern Alliance who are the eclectic group of various races.
>>
>>64010285
Honestly with all the factions out, you could almost pick appart the point values and make your own units.
>>
>>64009766
>>64009794
>>64009994
Thanks for the suggestions.

>>64010254
Do you mean the Kings of War: Vanguard system? All I found otherwise is a system that is still currently in development.
>>
>>64011205
They got free rules on the website. Along with the rules for a bunch of warbands. Gone a sec and I'll get a link.
>>
>>64011205
>>64011289
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html
They have a book out for it too. It has optional rules like campaigns and more equipment.
>>
>>64011308
There are some more unit options and spells too. I think that easy army lists all of them.
>>
>>64011458
The easy army is weird right now.
It includes stuff for some armies that aren't in the book. Expansion stuff like the Abbess and Dictator for Basilia.

But it's missing entire warbands like The Herd and Ratmen that are in the free warbands PDF.
>>
>>64011308
Thank you very much.
>>
>>64012002
I'm hoping that Battlescribe will update faster as it has been with normal KoW.
>>
>>64001450
Thanks anon, I'm actually in bongland, so maybe there's hope.
>>
>>64012836

What factions you like in the game anon?

Also anyone know when the forgotten realms stuff is gonna be avaliable for purchase?
>>
>>64013247
I like the look of the algoryn, ghar (well, the suits, scutters and crawlers, not the ones on foot) and isorian (apart from the tsan ra). Of those if I do jump into the game I'll probably start with algoryn because
>have a thing for angular designs
>they're in one of the starter sets (the more balanced one, from what I've read)
>more "vanilla" than ghar - maybe best to leave the battlesuits until more experienced with the game
>as lovely as the isorian basic troops look (also have a thing from giger-esqe designs) can't help feeling I'd be missing the point of playing them if I'm not using the tsan ra
So, yeah. Basic plan would be grab the Strike Kara box as a starting point. But, it's still an "if".
>>
What are the expanded factions going to be for warlords of erehwon? Or should I just play vanguard instead if I want a lot of variance?
>>
>>64014487
Lord's of nowhere looks like it's going to be a larger scale than Vanguard's skirmish.

I'd recommend Vanguard, since it's got free rules and you can play it until more Nowhere stuff drops.

There will probably be a lot of overlap. So honestly, why not both?
>>
Why the fuck basically every infantry in Gates of Antares have an accuracy of 5
So weird.
>>
>>64014116
I thought about doing Algoryns, but man the Freeborn just call to me.

Now I just need to actually buy an army.

In other news: who knew Freeblades models were so popular. Popped onto Warstore to see what they'd cost with the retailer discount and at $4 a dude it's hard to pass them up. Sadly some 90% of the guys I want are out of stock. Suppose I can just buy the others from Noble Knight and anything they don't have I can buy direct. Was hoping to build my Mordhiem warband on the cheap.
>>
>>64014929
Freeborn do seem pretty cool, they've got a bit of a desert nomad thing going on. They just didn't call to me for whatever reason. Out of interest, what's their niche gameplay-wise compared to the other human factions? I couldn't work out what their "thing" was.
>concord: shooty
>algoryn: bit more assault-y
>isorian: have those tsan ra things
>freeborn: ????
>>
>>64016214
They're sort of the Jack of all trades faction. They also seem to have a decent assortment of fast attackers.

At least that's what I've managed to gather. I mostly just think they look awesome, and I like their fluff(I'm always a sucker for the huge merchant faction thing).
>>
>>64001997
I chuck shit in boxes.
Not the most efficient way.
But I'm too lazy.
>>
>put my Men Doing Fights Nowhere preorder with my sipahi order
And bad mistakes, I made a few~
>>
I just realized my Black Friday order from CMON has been sitting at customs for two literal weeks.
The thought of those fat, lazy pieces of shit slapping a fuck-you fee on top after holding it up for no good reason already makes me livid.
>>
>>64017826
You definitely deserve the charges
>>
>>64017826
It's cocaine, the bribes gotta be paid to get through.
>>
>No spaceship combat games where it's a knockdown drag out fight as hulking ships of immense power slug it out in close range actions
>No side skirmish game of the combat taking place during the boarding action that would see whether or not the ship was taken,destroyed, or saved.
>>
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Finnshed some more models for my abyssal warband.
>>
>>64020910
Wow my paint job looks even worse than in person. Lol
>>
>>64020910
Wait, are those ex-illis ymps?
>>
>>64020910
I still feel like you should texture the bases. That and some static grass/flock could help the presentation a lot. Use a cool color to make the red on the models stand out.
>>
>>64021238
Yeah. I had some from way way back.
>>64021281
I am going to add static grass. I painted the bases green to channel that 80s vibe.
>>
Would y'all play an under water based sci-fi skirmish game in 28mm?
>>
>>64023973
Kind of like SciFi DeepWars you mean?
>>
>>64023973
If Deep Wars is anything to go by, maybe but probably not.

>>64020994
It’s half the reason I rarely post my models. Mediocre paint job and inability to shrink the images on my phone never ends well.
>>
>>64018094
Customs lardass detected
>>
>>64024291

Yeah pretty much. Just got done watching some z'goks in gundam and thought id ask if folks would play a game centred around stuff like that.
>>
>>64020910
>>64020994

But it is a paint job, so well done.
What might help with photography is light from the front though.
>>
Hey lads, what's going on with Legends of Signum?
>>
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>>64023973
If give it a chance, if I liked the look.

I'd honestly prefer one with a retro 20,000 leagues vibe.
>>
>>64024300
>>64024586
Yeah. Honestly even I prefer even s bad job to no paint job at all.

I'm still pretty new to this, do even if it didn't look great, I still learned quite a bit.
>>
>>64026910
Honestly looking at tutorials it seems like painting skin is never going to look good, without an airbrush.
>>
>>64026965
The fuck makes you say that?
>>
>>64027198
There fact that most of them start of with:
>Here's what it looks like after you apply a base coat with your airbrush
>>
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>>64027220
You don't need an airbrush to basecoat. It just makes it quick on small way faster on big models.
Memes aside, it's just multiple thin layers until you get coverage without clogging your details
>>
>>64027368
No one has time for that shit.
>>
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>>64027537
>I am lazy, therefore it's impossible!
>>
>Leave it to whenever painting comes up to remind me why awg is a shithole of off topic shitposting.

>>64024300
I don't post my models because the opinions in here are useless and not worth my attention t b h
>including my own
>>
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>>63988413
Any Fun game that can be played with any miniatures, with a balanced point system, with any theme (sci-fy, fantasy) and stuff that is good?
>>
>>64028893
There is nothing remotely close to that, it's always an unbalanced mess with firepower overwhelming everything and boring/confusing rules.
Dinos vs cops vs space marines never
>>
>>64028893
Keep dreaming, bucko
>>
>>64028893
Stuff like campaign and progression?
>>
>>64028893
I wish there was something like that that I could make an ff tactics game.
GURPS WARGAME WHEN?
>>
>>64028969
>>64029053
Bummer
>>64029072
That too
>>64029088
Same
>>
>>64028893
>>64029088
It kinda makes me want to make my own.
I'd base it on Chad Hero System instead if virgin Gurps though..
>>
If you were to make your own wargame, what would you consider the basics necessary to make a stat line?

Movement/attack stat/defense stat/leadership stat?
>>
>>64026878
Have you already checked out DeepWars from Antimatter Games?
>>
>>64029273
The minimum possible to avoid getting too complicated, while making complexity possible

Probably would make a must

Speed/movement
Attack Range
Life
Chance to hit/ bonus to hit
>>
>>64029232
Do it
>>
>>64029334
I hadn't, but I also wasn't actively seeking a undersea war game.
I just checked it out. I feel kind of meh about the minis.
>>
>>64029232
I Said GURPS because *anything* can be adapted to gurps
>>
>>64029232
>>64028893
Try /awg/ - the system - the game
>>
>>64029458
Yes. And Hero system is that, but better.
>>
>>64028893

Warstuff from OnePageRules (it’s on the freewargamesrules wiki under “miscellaneous”).
>>
>>64029515
/Awg/ made a system?
>>
>>64028893

https://www.mattcaron.net/opr_mirror/warstuff/WarStuff%20-%20Core%20Rules%20v2.1.0.pdf
>>
>>64029273
You've got to walk the line between two complex and still able to simulate everything you want it to.

>>64029401
It's tempting to think about.
>>
So is the forgotten worlds thing by fireforge dead? Or is gonna get actual support post release?
>>
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played some more rosd yesterday.
>>
>>64030834
My rull of thumn is that is it hasn't gotten some sort of news or update in three months it's dead.
>>
>>64030834
I just put in pledge confirmation for my boxes of totally-not-Stark dudes, so it's not dead. I was tempted to put the rulebook in my basket, but I've got enough games I haven't actually played in meatspace yet.
>>
>>64029592
Very nice, anon.
But I want more complexity.
Like, melee only units and more variations.
Great tip, tho
>>
>>64031121
Some...what now?
>>
>>64032656
>Melee only
Sorry, I might be having a stroke.
I mean, I want more options for advantages and disadvantages.
Jolly good show
>>
>>64029273
Movement, ranged, ability to hit, armor, and morale.
>>
>>64032674
different anon but assumedly Rangers of Shadow Deep
>>
>>64033195
Yeah,book has the art for it
>>
28mm Mounted female black-guard/anti-paladin - any ideas?
>>
>>64033195
Hm. It's by Frostgrave guy.
Is it the same core system?
>>
>>64033352
Here are some things that might do the trick with a suitably dark paint scheme

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/human%20female%20mounted/sku-down/14237

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/human%20female%20mounted/sku-down/02235#detail/02235_w_1

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/human%20female%20mounted/sku-down/14213#detail/IG_3954_1

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/human%20female%20mounted/sku-down/14224#detail/14224_G
>>
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>>64033352
Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire
>>
>>64033439
>https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/human%20female%20mounted/sku-down/14224#detail/14224_G
That's what I was leaning towards

>>64033462

That's freaking epic though. Might be worth it even with a boob window
>>
>>64033428
no,more rpg-esque and narrative driven
decent game
>>
>>64033793
>That's freaking epic though. Might be worth it even with a boob window
She's even available on foot, either with some undead minions:
https://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/mercenaries/units/alexia-ciannor-the-risen
Or on her own via the Privateer Press store:
https://store.privateerpress.com/alexia-body-1
>>
>>64033968
>foot version is $8
>mounted it's $30
What a bizarre pricing structure.
>>
>>64029616
>>64029592
Cool, Its fully compatible with their GRIMDARK FUTURE and AGE OF FANTASY games?
Where are the specific advantage cost table for those?
>>
>>64033428
>Is it the same core system?
Yes, combat and turn mechanics are pretty much the same. That said I've been having much more fun with it than I had with Frostgrave.
>>
>>64034461
Foot version is sold without cards, bases and minions, so it's cheaper (whole set costs 65$). There's an unarmored version (from the old RPG days) that's even cheaper (I believe something like around 7$?)
Not defending PP's prices btw, they tend to make mounted minis really expensive.
>>
What is this new malifaux game about? Is it just their version of a wargame?
>>
>>64035063
It's like Warmahordes, but more edgy and hipster
>>
>>64035063
It's supposed to take place in the setting's earth. It's sort of an alt WW1 game with all the magic and stuff that the setting entails. It uses 9 man units and some individuals as opposed to individual models across the board, and is supposed to be simpler to play.
>>
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Finally managed to do a little work on my prototype minotaur today.
In a shocking turn of events doing several months of nothing did not improve my bad sculpting skills, so the tabard is kinda crappy. Hopefully I'll improve.
I sawed off the dinky knife and accidently snapped off the axe, so I stuck rods in there and made shafts for the maces he'll get. It ended up kinda funny looking, but I can't quite put my finger on it why...
>>
>>64029592
Whats the diference between quality and defense?
>>
>>64035392
/WIP/?
>>
>>64035587
Quality is for attack rolls, morale, and whatever else he decides to put onto it, and defense for not being murdered.
>>
>>64035673
Man, I want the point cost for the stuff they have on GRIMDARK FUTURE and AGE OF FANTASY...
>>
>>64035604
I thought /wip/ didn't actually like things still in progress, only completed models.
>>
>>64035673
Thanks, anon!
>>
>>64035392

I'm assuming you got the hard plastic rather than the softer one? How is it to work with?
>>
>>64035726
Why are you capitalizing the names tho
>>
>>64035811
I copied this anon >>64034485 because Im a lazy fuck
sorry
>>
>>64035726
They use a different counting method for those.
Not sure if they just round up things to get 5s, because thats what looks like with a quick look comparing arstuff and grimdark future
>>
>>64035751
oh... yeah, specially whenit is so soon after SS
>>
>>64035925
I'm quite certain it rounds to 5s.
It makes some things oddly priced in the smaller-sized games, especially in the battle brother chapters where a few units are just straight better than others due to the rounding.
>>
Any one got the digital kings of war books? Want to get into it.
>>
>>64035726
The armor bugs me
4+ costs 15 points
So how much would de common from GDF 2+ and 5+ would cost?
Maybe something like this? IDK

2+ 35p
3+ 25p
4+ 15p
5+ 10p
6+ 5p
>>
>>64035604
It's for the group build.

>>64035788
Feels a bit like the PP restic but more brittle. Like I said, I snapped off the axe cleanly by accident.
Removing the mold lines was easy and I got that Revell saw to work on them and it was pretty easy to saw through. My drill bit is also smaller than my brass rods, so I had to twist the knife a bit to make the holes bigger which was also pretty easy.
All in all, what you'd expect from cheap russian hard plastic toys, but not bad, really.
>>
>>64035965
>>64035925
They fucked up!
They had this beutyful game and they fucked up!

>>64035972
These?
http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html
>>
>>64035925
>>64035965

Still, would be nice to have updated special rules for units
>>
>>64036017
Wizards suck!
Only two spells?
Thats boring!
>>
>>64035981
maybe 2+ 40points?
>>
>>64035925
>>64035965
Where are the Spells psychics can get?
>>
>>64035063
>>64035180
>>64035378
What's the fucking name of it
>>
>>64036056
>>64035981
Maybe
>>
>>64036157
The Other Side
>>
Runewars organized play cancelled for not having enough participants. Are people here still going to go on and on and on about how the game is doing fine whenever anyone suggesting it flopped?

>>64036157
>/awg/ i need to be spoonfed edition
>>
Questions for those of you with the plastic models for GA.

1) Any idea of a good place to get parts with Black powder weapons for the pirates?

2) I assume they can mix well with bits from the Frostgrave soldiers sprues? Like to get, say, crossbows or more variety of weapons? Or would slapping arma from a Soldier look really weird on a crewman body?

Thinking that might be a good, affordable, way for me to do a Pirate warband for Mordhiem.
>>
>>64036834
Why don't you search the archives?
>>
>>64036834
It's FFG, I'm surprised they didn't kill it sooner.
>>
>>64036920
Nevermind, just got home and peeked at the sprue up close and noticed it has crossbows.

Still: would mixing and matching arms look strange if I wanted more variety of swords and axes and such?
>>
>>64037365
Cool
>>
>>64036834
First off, you monolithic retard, not saying the name of the game you're playing is utterly counter intuitive. This thread exists to spoonfeed people into new or otherwise niche and unknown games. Second, just about everyone who regularly posts in this thread shits on Runewars any time it comes up, and to a lesser extent FFG as a whole.
>>
>>64037582
I'll be sure to put a little signature on my posts so you don't throw a little hissy fit anymore because you're not capable of a dozen keystrokes

>italic semi transparent text
>Runewars discussion with flaccid penis anon
>>
>>64034485

I dont think so, it’s older, from when “grimdark” was still “1p40k”
>>
>>64035726

I think the points calc formula for those two is available to patreon subs.
>>
>>64035996
The CoK 2019PDF isn't up there which contains all the updated stats for this year. I want to pick up a copy if I can find a local play group but for now I just want to build an army for a project and see what magic items and formations I want to include.
>>
>>64039624
Battlescribe is updated with all of the new stuff and changes. I can upload a PDF if there isn't one uploaded already.
>>
>>64039726
I don't have battle scribe.

I can't find it in the mega. Thank you
>>
>>64028893
>balanced
>with any theme
>that is good
unironically chess. You can also look in variants like Loka.
If you remove balanced from the equation you got several dozen other options. Frankly I've never heard of a wargame that people didn't complain about being unbalanced.
>>
>>64040504
Well basically to be superduper build-whatever-you want you need a point system.
If you have points there is an optimum.

So basically either you have a fixed statline system with points tuned to be balanced or you have a point build system which will always be unbalanced.
>>
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I am Batbear, I bump.
>>
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Recommend to me something, /awg/. What do you like? What do you think more people should play?
>>
>>64043105
>you have a point build system which will always be unbalanced
I never understood this mind set.
Point based things are easy to balance.
>X is too powerful now it costs 15 pts instead of 5.
>Y is under powered now it costs 2pts instead of 5.
>>
>>64045083
Playing Vanguard and Malifaux at the moment.

Malifaux is kinda dead, with the transition from 2-3. But it will probably pick up when the open beta starts.
>>
>>64045317
The real problem isn't balancing powers/ stats against each other, it's balancing characters of different point levels.

Getting three 30 point characters to be ballanced against one 90 point character.
>>
>>64045317
Rebalancing point costs can be extremely difficult due to a number of factors. How much weight do you give to competitive/tournament meta results? Do you rely on data from small playtest groups to balance things, or do you rely on a certain number of small local metas from around the country/world? If you add in new models with new abilities, how do they interact with and alter the existing balance state? How frequently can/should you alter points costs to try and balance the game without pissing off players with a constant state of flux?

Balancing points looks easy on paper, but there is a lot that needs to be taken into consideration for it to work as intended, and a lot of ongoing review.
>>
>>64045384
>If you add in new models with new abilities, how do they interact with and alter the existing balance state
You never add new models though, if it's a build your own model system. And new abilities should be pretty infrequent too, if you didn't rush your first release.

None of these problems are specific to point buy systems. Ones that lock you in with no build choices have the same issues, but are more difficult because you have to balance models (and factions) instead of specific abilities/stats.
>>
>>64045343
Malifaux is just warma 2.0 at this point. It'll take a miracle to reverse the death spiral and the community knows it too.

You look at their reddit community and there's a majority of posts doing the whole "where are the people saying its dead at, see how alive it is? Its totally alive" that happened right as PP was going over the cliff.

I hope it doesnt die because I have a crew, but 3E is looking rough, the company is more rough, and the playerbase isnt recovering. A lot of people have left and wont come back for 3rd and there wont be many new players to prop it up. The company will go down in flames feel free to @me
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>>64045791
Malifaux has a few problems unique to it over WM/Hs.

WM/Hs had enough releases at a high enough cost to keep a store open, the same way 40k did. Wyrd's release schedule can't do that. It's very cheap to get into and most people will buy a small warband and be done. WM/H was more expensive and there was always "just one more" model to get. You bought a new caster and you had a new army, but you wanted a new Jack, who worked well with this other caster.. and you ended up building multiple armies with minor pick ups keeping a constant flow of cash to the store.

Malifau'x setting is a problem for 2 reasons. It's pretty shallow as most Steampunk is. This shallowness attracts the type of people your whales don't want to be around. When you see the cosplaying freak shows and all the "I totally love wargaming guys!" types around your hobby you want nothing to do with them. Malifaux could not have been designed better to attract these people. They shit up any serious forum discussion and often bring a bunch of political shit with them (Wyrd naming boxsets after feminist marches didn't help none on this front).

It creates a double whammy where people who just want a game are put off by the community and people who want to buy a full army end up buying small warbands with no sense of an army. At that point who are you appealing to except the casual steampunk people you have clearly designed a game too complex for them to want to play seriously?

I'm still not sure how Malifaux made it to 2nd edition. It's a huge improvement on every front but it's not like 1st ed really took off. It requires Warmachine to go on the down turn and then it got cunt punted by 8th ed 40k.
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>>64045929
>It's pretty shallow as most Steampunk is.

I'd dispute that one. Mostly because it's got a major, major focus on the actually punk part of steampunk. The economic and social inequality, the variance between those with power and those getting trampled on. Wondrous, fantastical magic exists...and it's just another tool of that abuse.
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>>64045929
High quality miniatures and decent rules. Most (non american) wargamers don't give a fuck about /pol/ shit. For example (afaik) the scene in germany is rather left/liberal leaning. So much so that playing nazis in historicals or playing modern historicals in general is sometimes frowned upon
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>>64045995
This. The setting is pretty deep. Even if you're only looking at the stuff in the rule books, there's tons of fluff.

It does look pretty shallow from the outside though. Like gears and zombie hookers and nothing else.

>>64045995
The recent art doesn't really reflect it, but it's a pretty dark setting. Soulstones mean that not even death is a guaranteed release from grinding servitude.
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>>64045995
None of which is cool space marines or awesome evil wizards killing shit. It might make a good universe for novels but as a wargame which can't really change much it can't explore those themes well.

>>64046031
Hello newfag.

Politics in wargaming has almost always been libertarian in nature. The group playing it are often bullied or anti social and just want to be left alone. They would have a shallow understanding of politics and would naturally lean left due to the culture around them. It's something of the last decade where wargaming become political and before then it was a lot like the metal scene (which were often the same group). Don't shit on any one else and no one will shit on you. You could argue science fiction was always political and leaned almost exclusively left wing but that rarely made it into the games themselves. Even 40k which was actively political in it's satire would parody everything and anything.

It's obvious why people brought up told to be ashamed of their history would be frowned upon playing that faction so that's hardly a bench march.
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>>64046111
That's exactly what I said though.
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>>64045929
>>64045995

Its not just shallow its bad. I get malifags wanting to stand up for their setting but cmon . The rulebook is already a cringefest and it doesnt get better. The setting is like a shitty soup of whatever ideas they thought would randomly be cool thrown together haphazardly. It had potential and it ruined it and now its a mediocre setting. Thats pretty obvious to anyone not in denial that reads the lore.
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>>64046162
Yeah but they said it in a way that included a ton of flowery pointless bullshit and buzzwords that exemplify why awg is full of clowns
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>>64046111
>It might make a good universe for novels but as a wargame which can't really change much it can't explore those themes well.
If a wargame can't explore political themes, then why does it matter if there's politics involved?
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>>64046111
To follow this up.

Science fiction is almost exclusively left wing in nature because it's trying to tell of a potential future. Usually it's muh freedoms against some larger group trying to hold order. The people who wrote it were often fringe fetishists or other non-acceptable people trying to push the bouncaries.

Fantasy usually leans to the right since it's often based on reality but altered slightly. All the races are very traditional or straight up barbarians in traditional fantasy. Elves declining, Dwarves declining and humans in the rise learning from these older civilizations to build a culture unique but lead by the past.

A lot of fantasy has strong Christian themes or civilizations based around traditional Christianity. They weren't about muh freedoms in the future but about the past and wrapping up life lessons in something children would enjoy reading.

Maybe we see a decline in traditional fantasy because we lack the foundation for it now. We have all the tech to make amazing models of fantasy creatures and all too often we get none of them.
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>>64046173
I could see an argument for it being bad. But bad and shallow aren't the same thing.
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>>64046173

That's not really much in the way of actual arguments about why it's got said quality beyond repeated 'I think it's bad'.
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>>64046188
Because it becomes a soap box to preach from and it attracts the people it preaches too. A lot of people don't like Magic shoving politics into the game and it's all over the place in this exact manner. It's putting off long term players and encouraging behaviour that harms the community.

Wargaming fluff is supposed to be a setting to tell a story in. It's like building a soccer pitch or a playground. The authors shouldn't be preaching at the playground when it's simply a frame work for others to play in. If you want to push an idea it's a bad venue for it and you're just going to make people angry.
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>>64046205
>>64046214
So people arent allowed to say something is bad without an exhaustive list to make you happy but you're allowed to force feed us that it's good without actual good reason either.

K. Cool. Fuck off?
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>>64046268
>but you're allowed to force feed us that it's good without actual good reason either.

Except actual reasons were given. The actual exploration of the punk aspects of steampunk that were emblematic of the Victorian era that most steampunk doesn't touch on.
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>>64046259
>The authors shouldn't be preaching at the playground when it's simply a frame work for others to play in. If you want to push an idea it's a bad venue for it and you're just going to make people angry.

There's a damn lot of eras you'll have a hard time ever drawing from without politics being a major part of it. Which will leave you either discussing politics or doing a very shallow, milquetoast setting.
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>>64046268
Naw. You're allowed to say it's bad. And your opinion is even given weight if you back it up.

Calling it shallow is silly though.
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>>64046111
I have literally never seen anyone bring up politics during any sort of traditional gaming and I'm from Better Germany. Fifteen years ago people might have skirted around playing the SS in FoW and there was that one dude at the GW that painted his Guard in Wehrmacht colours with Balkenkreuze plastered all over and he got a few sideways looks, but nobody ever refused to play him because really, when you're playing murderous football hooligans or violent space rapists, who cares.
Nobody would be assmad either if some thot walked in dressed as Lady Justice, but that may be because in real life I've never seen one of those fake nerd gurls. Chicks either don't fucking care about nerdy shit, or they are really, REALLY into it. If she's even a 4/10 she'll get one or two betas orbiting her, but nobody is going to walk away from Malifaux because of that. People generally do not give a shit about what other people do around here.
It's purely an anglo thing.
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>>64046259
I'm not sure that it is attractiving those people. For every person who is attracted by stronk independent women another is going to be repulsed by zombie hookers and skimpy outfits
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>>64046279
>Most
Phew. Allow me to bow out of this discussion since clearly it's just bait.
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>>64046339
Malifaux is the sexiest miniatures game this side of Kingdom Death and as far as I can tell the characters are the whole range cunts, there's not a single one that's actually portrayed as a sympathetic person, at least last time I checked. I have no fucking clue what he's on about.
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>>64046268
Welcome to the internet. I can say something is bad but you have to write an essay when you say something I don't like is bad.

Malifaux has identity issues. There's very few characters who stand out as interesting or worth following. Mostly because it's a cluster fuck of models rather than a setting designed from the ground up. The interestingish characters that do exist all exist else where and done better. Jack the Ripper, Babi yaga etc. Malifaux's biggest strength was the Neverborn and being able to go balls deep on insanity. Very few of the models go that deep and Mantic's new monster faction has already done it better in a skirmish game with a full army on the way.

Malifaux's problem is it doesn't do anything special. The game mechanics are special but there it over applies it's self.

>>64046294
Preaching and discussing isn't the same thing. Good discussion in a setting is rebels VS government. Rebels want XYZ but will destroy the order of society, government wants to keep order so the every day person can just live their lives. Rebels think government is oppressive, government thinks rebels are chaos. Average Joe in the middle doesn't care and just wants to live his life.

That's a setting you can explore in fluff and give a fair shake to. Both sides can have a valid argument and you can write fluff from either side with a slant to balance in the middle. That isn't what we're seeing in modern wargaming. We're seeing one very extreme side using wargaming as a club to beat the people who support these games. That's why politics in wargaming should be avoided now. The writers and artists are extremeists who can't understand why their ideology isn't perfect and want to convert people to it. It's like that Korean cult they found running the government.
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>>64046398
>That's a setting you can explore in fluff and give a fair shake to. Both sides can have a valid argument and you can write fluff from either side with a slant to balance in the middle. That isn't what we're seeing in modern wargaming.

With...what? The Lord of the Rings TT game? That one always had evil and good groups in the setting.
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>>64046339
Who do you think are the people who supported the zombie fad we just had? Zombie hookers is right up their street.

>>64046316
No no you don't understand. We live in a RAPE CULTURE and you better not look at that 4/10 or she will write about you on twitter.

I've seen it, I've spoke to a few of these girls and they do bring politics into it.

>>64046426
It also has Gollum showing that good can become evil. It has Gandalf refusing the ring because he could become a tyrant for "people's own good". The elves are good but will slaughter people who tress pass. The Dwarves are good but incredibly greedy and will leave others to their fate if it suits them. The kingdoms of men were corrupt and needed to redeem themselves.

Lord of the rings has clear good and evil, but they aren't black and white factions. There is a back and forth between both sides which gives it depth. Same with Star wars which is the same deal. Empires faceless evil yet manages to keep order in a galaxy full of smugglers, drug cartels and world nuking weapons.
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>>64046398
Explain in what ways Malifaux is preaching and supplement it with sources.
Screencaps are preferable.
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>>64046398
>Malifaux's problem is it doesn't do anything special
We're complaining about a kitchen sink setting having too many things in it? I feel like you missed the part where malifaux pitched itself as Cowboy Ninja Robot Steampunk Skirmish Game. It's a screwball genre pastiche with tongue planted firmly in cheek. They've got dozens of popular characters ripped straight from the pages of gothic and pulp fiction sharing the streets Jack the Ripper, John Henry, and Johnny Cash, for chrissake. It's like the minis game version of a tarantino film - *everything* is a reference. What the heck were you expecting from the fluff, Lord of the Rings?
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>>64046505
>No no you don't understand. We live in a RAPE CULTURE and you better not look at that 4/10 or she will write about you on twitter.
>I've seen it, I've spoke to a few of these girls and they do bring politics into it.
Not here they aren't. Chicks into wargaming are a small minority here, but I've never seen one that wasn't just one of the guys.
People do not talk about politics if you don't start talking about politics here. Faith, Money, Sex and Politics is something you only talk about at home, or with your mates when sitting around drinking and passing the time. You don't talk about that shit with some guy you're meeting to play a game with.
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>>64046544
>Write an essay on an image board
I shall pass.

Do some research on this name.

>>64046588
You're making the point. Why would I bother with Ready Player One when I could just go watch Back to the Future, The Iron giant and Gundam instead? If those things are so good I'm better off trying those out then I am a copy of those things.
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>>64046398
>The game mechanics are special but there it over applies it's self.
What does that mean?
The rules are too special?
>>64046426
Malifaux does a good job actually.
Guild is both the people risking thier lives to protect the innocent, and "the man" with it's boot on the working man's back.
Neverborn are another good example, they're horrific monsters that hate humanity, but they have legitimate grievances. Namely humanity invading thier homes and stealing the souls of thier ancestors.
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>>64046637
Too many unique systems can clash with each other. Malifaux is extremely complex in it's model abilities, it's card mechanic and it's multiple scenarios. You could build a game around any of these 3 mechanics and have that be a special selling point. Having all 3 at once makes the game more complex than the sum of it's parts.
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>>64046634
>Why would I bother with Ready Player One when I could just go watch Back to the Future, The Iron giant and Gundam instead?
You can do either or both, anon. Whatever appeals to you.
I'd put this to you though - the demands of game settings are very different to those of narrative media. Kill Bill might not be as narratively interesting as Unforgiven, but it does have a hell of a lot more fight scenes and neat-looking characters.
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>>64046634
Write it on pastebin then and post it here, with links to an imgur album with screencaps.
So far all I'm reading is bold claims backed up by nothing than evasion and feelings. If I wanted some rant on some perceived injustice with no arguments to back it up, I'd open some sort of intersectional or gender theory journal.

But I humored you and looked it up. So slapping the name of a leftist movement on a box of the zombies is preaching to you? I mean I can even see that it's sorta appropriate, considering they are all victims (and I mean for real victims, not """rape culture""" victims) of murderers and necromancers and that movement started as a march to raise awareness about how unsafe it was for a woman to be out at night in the 70s in SF (before it inevitably for corrupted in the last ten years because of course).
So that's preaching to you? Anything else?
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>>64046682
The card mechanic is just another sort of randomization. It's not significantly more complex than dice rolling.

I agree that the models are too complex. But they're working on that.

Also, what games don't have multiple senarios? I can't think of any that are just
"Smash your guys into my guys" the game.
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>>64046634
Because playing a game where you could have the Iron Giant fighting Gundam would be more interesting than playing a game where you have a nine-year old befriend a giant robot or heavy-handed "WAR IS BAD."
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>>64046634
>Why would I bother with Ready Player One when I could just go watch Back to the Future, The Iron giant and Gundam instead?
Anon, at no point was Ready Player One ever trying to be any of these three movies. Icons from those moves show up in RPO because it's a story about pop culture, not because RPO is trying to be any of these movies. It uses those characters for its own story because it's thematic, it's fun and it brings the shekels from people that heard that Master Chief is in the movie and want to see that.
Are you by chance autistic?
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>>64045929
That's sounds like bullshit honestly. The game has the exact opposite problem in that it does powercreep to get people to buy the new stuff like most titles built around selling a specific line of models. The playerbase overlaps with most other wargames in my experience, though it is admittedly less fat than Warmahorde's.

I think that the /pol/shit is stupid overall. The game uses female pronouns by default sure, but it doesn't have a single LGBTQBBQ character outside of Baritone Lola and Thin Lizzy. Maybe I am just jaded seeing what companies like White Wolf and Hasbro pull.
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>>64046785
>Using Imgur
No thank you reddit kun. I will pass on supporting your leftist websites.

>>64046795
If you just flipped cards that would be true. But you have hand management and models that trigger off of cards makes it a lot more complex than dice.

Multiple scenarios at once is different. You have a primary and then 2 secondary. All of which can use the same counters on the board.

>>64046824
I don't find it fun and I don't care for nostlagia bait. You're arguing a book loved by autistic people is not autistic. I've had people tell me RPO is exactly how autists see pop culture.

>>64046822
Gundam isn't that shallow. But I would rather have a Gundam tabletop game than a cross over one. Iron Giant doesn't interest me very much and I don't like it's design style. It being a core part of a cross over makes me less interested in that cross over.

>>64046951
>It doesn't have X except X X X X and X
What's the problem here? The fact that you consider it okay to promote these things or that you yourself have been so exposed to this ideology you don't consider it a problem?

Using female pronouns outside of examples is also a political choice. Mostly because any logical person would use male examples as that's the core userbase so it's logical to write to the audience you have. She should only pop up when you have 2 or more people in an example because it gives you additional context in them. If He is attacking and She is defending you never confuse the two sides.
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>politics in wargames

Wew I'm glad this thread isn't far off bump limit, as polite as it is.

Remember when GW called the most monstrous beast in the galaxy Maguruk Thrakka lmao
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>>64047173
>No thank you reddit kun. I will pass on supporting your leftist websites.
Use any image hosting website you like.
Or make your own website and host the images there. Just bring in some facts instead of bitching and crying like a PMSing woman.
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>>64047173
>But you have hand management and models that trigger off of cards makes it a lot more complex than dice.
It's more complex than using a d6. But you could pretty nice replace all the card mechanics with a d54 if you thought that was better.

Primary and secondary objectives are neat. I'm surprised more games don't use them. But I don't think it adds a level of complexity that would carry a game.
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>>64047173
>If He is attacking and She is defending you never confuse the two sides.
This is honestly a pretty neat idea.
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Do we have Dracula's America scans?
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>>64047396
>It's more complex than using a d6. But you could pretty nice replace all the card mechanics with a d54 if you thought that was better.
Trying to replace malifaux's randomization with dice would be tricky, and most likely much less elegant. Sure, the card off the top of the deck could be simulated with a d12 or something, (and maybe the suit with a separate d4 if you want to keep that aspect), but then how do you model the hand and cheating fate? Have a separate pool of private dice that you swap for the public die when desired? Feels like something important is lost in the translation there.
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>>64048795
>then how do you model the hand and cheating fate
You roll dice at the begin of the turn, and can substitute one of those rolls for a roll you made.

Unfortunately you really need a d54, to include the chance of Jokers. Or a d13, a d4 and a d27.
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>>64048795
>Feels like something important is lost in the translation there.
You lose the fact that are no repeated "rolls" until you exhaust all the "rolls" in the deck.
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>using "she" is fucking political now
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Does 'alternative' just mean 'not GW'?
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>>64046194

Sci fi has historically been libertarian, not “left wing”. Have you never heard of “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”? Or are you a eurofag who thinks that only right and left exist?
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>>64049332
No, we discuss GW stuff here from time to time.

As it says in the OP this is for games that don't have their own generals already. So we don't discuss historicals here (except SAGA sometimes) and the likes.
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>>64049332
Anything not GW that can't sustain a thread.
9A goes into WFG
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>>64045083
Horizon Wars is pretty nice and easy to play.

More /hwg/ but Missile Threat is choice as well.
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>>64049287
It is, insofar that the standard is using the male pronoun and you need to expend concious consideration to use the female one.
It's kinda dumb and pointless but at least it's grammatically correct and real.
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>>64047173
>What's the problem here? The fact that you consider it okay to promote these things or that you yourself have been so exposed to this ideology you don't consider it a problem?
Oh yeah, Baritone Lola is totally them pushing a liberal agenda by shoving equality into everything. Those darn SJWs.

And the game does use both pronouns to differentiate sides. You clearly haven't read the rulebook and therefore don't know what you are talking about. Please do us all a favor and keep your ignorance in /pol/ where it belongs.
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>>64049432

Not enough fat vape rips for it to be libertarian, sorry sweetie.
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>>64050101
It certainly is Social Justice.
It shows not only that transgenderism is alive and well in Malifaux, but that the setting is body positive as well.
Baritone Lola is a BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMAN and exactly the sort of character Malifaux's problematic setting needs.
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Someone bake new bread.
I did the last one.
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>>64050721
Done
>>64050949
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>>64040504
Loka is super expensive right now, family



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