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So I want to create a religion that is inspired from a theological perspective by Christianity but has a more Chinese aesthetic and cultural views. Do you have any advice on how to go about this?
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>>63405124
Do the opposite. Catholicism has the better aesthetic and unfamiliar theology is more fun at the table.
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This better lead to the most bloody civil war in your game's setting.
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>>63405124
Look at korean christanity, I know it's not chinese but it's similar at least and more unqiue I here compared to the new christian chinese which are more western.
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>>63405124
Exactly how inspired by Christianity do you really want this to be? Most of Christianity has gotten baked into the cultural views of the west, so you're going to have to abandon a lot of it in order to get more Chinese-seeming cultural perspectives.
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>>63405147
Everyone and their mother knows Catholic theology from the sheer amount of times it is used for religion. I want to take on a Christian-like religion from a Chinese perspective, with all the fun things that implies, like calling God the "Highest Emperor" and "Lord of Heaven" (something the Chinese Christians actually do because they don't have a name for God).
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>>63405185
I want it to have the theology of a Christian-inspired religion with the cultural views of the Chinese. Even if this results in radically different practices and ideas about what it means to be a faithful disciple, I'm okay with it as long as it maintains the key theological beliefs you would expect from a Christian-inspired religion.
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>>63405207
Fun fact: the chinese do in fact have a word for god, else how do you think they translate the bible?

The word in fact existed before Zhou rulers co-opted it and joined it with the word for "sovereign" to create the new term for emperor. That's why chinese emperors are always strongly associated with mandate of heaven - it says right there in his title he's charge by the divine to rule over earth. Instead of just emperor, it's probably more correct to think of the Chinese referring to their ruler as "god emperor".
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>>63405124
Wang Mang would be a fitting choice to model such a religion after. He was a contemporary of Jesus who died a martyr to his philosophical beliefs.
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>>63405124
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>>63405207
>Everyone and their mother knows Catholic theology from the sheer amount of times it is used for religion.
Don't mistake pop culture aesthetics for theology. Very few non-Catholics actually know Catholic theology.
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>>63405124
Quite simple! Play a game in an alternate reality where Christianity replaced Buddhism as the most popular religion in ancient China, which promptly and through sheer Chinese autism power managed to stay truer to the faith than any catholic sect, and eventually waged a massive crusade westward [the Glorious March of Blessings Mandated by the Most High Emperor of Heaven].
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I'll give it a shot, OP. I am a Christian and I spent a lot of time in a country where a lot of people spoke Mandarin Chinese. This might be a bit wordy, but I think it's worth sharing. Here are some of the key differences between easterner and westerner views of Christianity:

1. To admit to following Christ is tantamount to openly abandoning your family. Christians are called to publicly profess that they believe that Jesus is the only path to heaven, and in doing so are declaring that the the rituals of ancestor worship, like burning "hell money" (google it), have no real power. This causes a lot of easterners that know a ton about the Bible, love Jesus, and want to be Christians to never actually become Christians because they allow their fear of retribution or being disowned to prevent them from openly declaring their faith to anyone, including westerners.

2. Easterners are more likely to admit that they believe spiritual beings, such as spirits or gods, exist. When I talked to people about Jesus, they often had zero issue with the idea that I worshiped a divine being, or that he manifested in multiple ways as Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. Conversely, westerners are often extremely skeptical about such things. I think this is the result of Eastern philosophy historical embracing the idea of unknowns, that there are naturally going to be forces and being beyond our understanding, and Western philosophy stemming from the Greeks where everything revolved around logic and only admitting belief in something that can be proven through syllogism.

more to follow...
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>>63406390
3. Easterners understand the concept of Christian community extremely well. In the west, and particularly in the United States, there is an intense cultural push for individuality. In the east, this is flipped on its head. There is instead an intense cultural push for conformity. It is far more common for people to embrace the idea that being part of something larger, like a group of students or coworkers, makes the individual greater than they could ever be alone. Westerners struggle with finding a sense of belonging in churches, but easterners create a very warm and inviting church far more easily just by acting the way they do already.

4. Easterners are more likely to believe false teaching in the form of formal dogma. This kind of goes along with their view of spirituality, as mentioned above in point 2. Because they are more ready to believe in the supernatural, they are less disturbed by the proposition that there are other spirits or gods in addition to those in true Christianity. However, this is compounded by the fact that Christianity is "new" for easterners. It is only a little older than 2000 years, and China has been around longer than that, so who's to say this new guy (enter charismatic leader with robes, fancy suit, or other accoutrements) isn't just another part of the story? This leads to a lot of cults that take Christian teachings, and then tack on their own list of demi-gods that supposedly descended from Jesus or spirits they invented that supposedly work for God. It's a common problem for Christian missionaries over there, that they have to actively work very hard to disassociate themselves from these cults and denounce them, much the same way the apostle Paul did in his letters to early churches.
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>>63405147
>Do the opposite
European Buddhism?
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>>63405254
This divergence would require a look into the transmission of Christianity across the world and would depend heavily on when exactly you have this Christianized China. A Ming China that adopted Christianity early on would be substantially different from a Qing China that did so. This still gives a lot of variety to how it develops, but I can help with a few significant points of divergence:

Christianity first entered China historically in the 600s, with monks of the Church of the East (a Nestorian offshoot), who incidentally were involved in the smuggling of Chinese silkworms across the Silk Road back to the Eastern Roman Empire. China at this time would be under the reign of the Tang dynasty. This is the first major point of divergence that you could take, with greater success in gaining converts than it did in OTL or at the very least greater success in gaining converts at high levels of political power. Doing so would allow it to be harder to stamp out a couple hundred years later, with Emperor Wuzong of Tang's persecution of foreign religions (which included Zoroastrianism, Manichaeism, and especially the flourishing Buddhism in addition to Nestorian Christianity) being the first setback to Christianity in China; with larger numbers of converts, the persecution would be harder to carry out, and would have a push-back via martyrdom or even open rebellion. The second would be having the aforementioned persecution never take place, either by having the Emperor never carry it out or by having a different Emperor in power at the time more open to the foreign religions. This could come about through the Christian emphasis on community taking greater hold on the underlying social structures or through simple tolerance and perhaps economic incentives across the Silk Road. In either case, however, Christianity would still be competing with Buddhism, which still outnumbers it substantially. There could be a degree of Syncretism to help Christianity along.
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>>63406777
European Confucianism. Buddhism is an Indian religion.
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>>63405124
So basically, you want a world based on the premise of "What if Jesus the Son of God was born during the twilight years of the Zou Dynasty, right before it broke down and descended into the warring states period" or "What if Jesus was born during the warring states period, and preached his gospel along with the other Hundred Schools of throught"? That sounds workable. You need to be pretty well read in both ancient Chinese history and Christian theology.
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>>63405124
>*writes Chinese-Christian fanfiction*
>*kills 30 million people*
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Look back to Matteo Ricci. He was one of the first Jesuit missionaries to China, in the time of the early Qing dynasty, and worked hard to roll a bunch of traditional Chinese concepts into Christianity. The Manchu ended up not very interested in his religion, and the Catholic Church back home wasn't happy with the idea of adapting Christianity to the Chinese, so it ended up not panning out, but there was a lot of potential.
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>>63405124
What's stopping you from just having Christianity and slapping on Chinese looks?

I will say, the Heavenly Beuracracy sounds like it'd be easy to assimilate with God and Angels.
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>>63406956
You can't shit talk the brother of Jesus like that
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>>63406885
Zhou, not "Zou". And thought instead of "throught".

The more I think about it, an Autum Warring States Jesus would be pretty cool. Just imagine, even Gabriel will have to be Chinese, and will have to try and introduce himself to Chinese Mary and Chinese Joseph in a way that makes sense. He can't even say that he's the "angel of the Lord" because concepts like that did not exist in China indigenously. Maybe he'll have to say he is a messanger of true and only Dao, the Way.
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>>63406885
What if Confucius and Mozi were to Chinese Jesus what Peter and Paul were to Jewish Jesus?
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>>63406956
I like his style
>Kingdom of Heavenly Peace
>literately at war for every single day of its existence
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>>63407020
>What's stopping you from just having Christianity and slapping on Chinese looks?
I fully intend to slap on the Chinese aesthetic, but more than that I want to embrace a Chinese view of the world without giving up the theology of the Christian-inspired religion. Basically, what I mean is, the God of the religion still has to be all good, all powerful, and all knowing, and he should still have angels (although the names and aesthetics can change) and have his followers focus on love, faith, hope, and self-sacrifice. But stuff like "God given human rights" which are derived from a very western-oriented understanding of Christianity yet not actually found within the Bible can be thrown right out if it allows the religion to be sinified.
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>>63407052
>Jesus styling on Han Fei about how only a portion of earthly life should be given to "Caesar" and the greatest part must go to God
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>>63405124
What about the approach used by Journey to the West, where both Buddhist and Taoist pantheons exist and are aware of each other. And they send mortal followers as diplomatic go betweens between the two camps?

Or is that too polytheistic for your liking?
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>>63406793
The next option is for it to take place after this initial influx of Christian ideas into China. The Mongol Yuan dynasty opened the doors back for Christian missionaries in China that led to a Nestorian revival in the region, in addition to the first influx of other, Western branches like Catholicism. Which way you go with this could have a major impact on the development of Chinese Christianity, because Catholic missionaries in China still considered the Nestorians of the region to be heretical. Personally I would think a promotion of Nestorian Christianity by the Mongol Emperors to counter the influx of Catholicism would make the most sense to keep it steady in the long-term, as it would entrench that branch as a firmly "Chinese" variant of Christianity, and it would help the Mongol ruling class (who had some Nestorians among their ranks even at that time) connect to some degree with the native Chinese populace.

There are two major problems that arise with this. First, that the Ming dynasties that replaced the Yuan saw Christianity and Manicheanism as foreign influences counter to Confucian ideals and instead promoted Buddhism while allowing Islam and the long-established Judaism to continue unmolested. If you further entrench Nestorian Christianity as, in the minds of rulers and populace, a more "Chinese" religion counter to foreign influences, it could manage to hold on, but it would be competing against Islam and Buddhism still. Second, as just mentioned, it would still be competing against Islam and Buddhism, the former having a better track record with its converts at the end of the Yuan (which continued under the Ming thanks to its tolerance of Islam, as famous Ming explorer Zeng He was a practicing Muslim) and the latter has a much longer and more entrenched history within China by that point. Even if entrenched at that point, you'd need a significantly stronger push from something to have it stand above the two, a "Chinese Constantine" of sorts
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>>63407052
>a zealous Confucius bloodlusted by his hatred of this newfangled religion sounds dope. He mght even be thankful for his official position in this timeline as it allows him to crack down on Christians.
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What would Chinese Jesus be called? His name was divinely ordained and was to mean saviour or deliverer, so Jiushi might work (saviour). As a teacher, he would be called "Jiushifuzi" or "Jiuhizi".
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>>63405646
Very few Catholics know Catholic theology, this applies to basically every theology, mythology, and philosophy I've ever encountered.
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>>63405207
This guy >>63405646 is telling the truth. Few people actually understand Catholic theology. Its intricacies are so foreign to the modern mind that you could easily get away with constructing a setting around it.
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>>63405124
They like the coulor red
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>>63405124
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>>63405124
Church
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You could just make Chinese Mormonism. Allow me to explain. Most people don't know much about Mormon theology outside of the polygamy and 19th century racism. So it won't be as familiar to your audience. Basically Mormons think that during the destruction of the first temple a bunch of Hebrews fled on a big boat to the Americas. They formed two nations, the faithful Nephites who were white and delightsome, and the dark skinned Lamanites who were bad and stuff. They had lots of wars and stuff. But then when Jesus resurrected before ascending to heaven he stopped by the Americas to lay down gospel truths. And so he did, he even had a native American set of twelve apostles. One of these totally real native Americans was named Timothy. Anyway Jesus then went to Kolob to see his dad and do righteous God stuff. And so the Americas had peace for about two centuries. But then the Lamanites killed all the white people in battle in upstate New York that surpassed Stalingrad in terms of casualties. Except one of the white guys survived, he was named Moroni and he buried some golden plates in a hill before becoming an angel. So then in the early 1800's Moroni told some virgin named Joseph Smith to dig them up and translate them via a magic rock in a hat. And that's why Smith has divine prophetic authority to fuck your wife while you're away on a missionary trip.

So you could basically just copy paste this into China. Like so.
>Chinese Israelism
>Semi-charismatic founder who's really horny
>A weird book of anachronisms to serve as a spin off from the bible.
>Some weird theological shit about multiple kingdoms of heaven, bullying the holy ghost being a nonrefundable ticket to getting your soul annihilated, God having endless celestial sex on another planet with his hot spirit wife to create souls, and being able to ascend beyond the three heavenly kingdoms and become your own super Saiyan if you follow all the church's rules to the letter.
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>>63408606
If you were doing a 19th century thing I'd think just making it a successful Taiping revolution would be the obvious route. I don't really know the specifics of what they believed, but the basic jist is "This is Jesus' Chinese brother"
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>>63408696
Yeah I guess that would work, but it doesn't have the weird sex stuff Mormonism does. Just sad celibacy. Not good for magical realm development. Probably why they lost the war.
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>>63405124
Jesus (Jiu Zhu) is the Son of Heaven, the true Jade Emperor and Second Buddha. He came down to implement a system of compassionate Confucian philosophy, but was killed by those who did not understand his meaning. It is said he will return from Nirvana to rescue China in its hour of greatest need.

Tenets of his include "Give unto the Emperor what is his right", "Honor thy father, in heaven and on earth", and "Love thy family".
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>>63405124
Chinese here.

Check Mohism.
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>>63405254
>There was the deformed object Shu. His chin seemed to hide his navel; his shoulders were higher than the crown of his head; the knot of his hair pointed to the sky; his five viscera were all compressed into the upper part of his body, and his two thigh bones were like ribs. By sharpening needles and washing clothes he was able to make a living. By sifting rice and cleaning it, he was able to support ten individuals. When the government was calling out soldiers, this poor Shu would bare his arms among the others; when it had any great service to be undertaken, because of his constant ailments, none of the work was assigned to him; when it was giving out grain to the sick, he received three kung, and ten bundles of firewood. If this poor man, so deformed in body, was still able to support himself, and complete his term of life, how much more may they do so, whose deformity is that of their faculties!
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>>63405124
Look at the Taiping. Low-ranking official has a mental breakdown/religious vision, and ends up starting a new religious movement that, by the end, is the cause of more total loss of life than WW1. The Abrahamic god had originally been from China but was driven out by foreign invaders (both the Europeans, and the ruling Qing/Manchu dynasty), and the leader of the Taiping, Hong Xiuquan, was claimed to the the "Little Brother" of Jesus. Several other Taiping leaders had similar religious roles; Yang Xiuqing was said to speak with the Voice of God, and Xiao Chaogui was the reincarnation of Jesus himself. The Taiping were militant zealots, but incredibly progressive: they believe in a total equality between all peoples regardless of race, sex, or class, even allowing women into military or administrative roles (a big deal for 19th century China), and (at least in the early period) used very communistic economics.
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>>63409330
Let me just see if I've got the basics down:
>get rid of unnecessary rituals, but keep the stuff that's good for maintaining community bonds
>don't be partial with your love, show love towards all people
>don't go to war offensively, only fight wars when it is in self-defense and focus on building up your fortifications to deter attackers
Does that about sum him up?
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>>63407576
>ts intricacies are so foreign to the modern mind that you could easily get away with constructing a setting around it.
Dude the Trinity is so deep...
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>>63409330
>>63409731
Oh, forgot one thing:
>government should be based on meritocracy, not on nobility or nepotism
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>>63405124
>>63406390
I'm going to jump off of your first point. I think that one thing you could do with a Chinese type Christianity assuming we are talking about a fantasy setting and not straight up alt-hist, is merge ancestor worship with the concept of sainthood. Vastly expand the scope of saints both in numbers and their prominence. You can have saints that patronize only one village , saints relating to a dynasty, or even figures that individual families consider "family saints". Have it so that people still worship ancestors but have cultural ancestors that take a higher place through great deeds and closeness with god. This would make the theology a lot more "closer to home" with saints acting as a bridge between the all powerful god and your own family past. People will be able to engage in ancestor worship as a part of the greater system.
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>>63409782
So catholicism? Also source on the art?
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>>63409330
>>63409731
Some explanations here.

The Mohism is one of (if not the only one of) the schools which emphasized supernatural importance.
They preach an "universal love" as their central ideal, as well as pacifism, equality. If you want Christianity with a more modern/New testament favor, this is the closet one you can get, not even Buddhism.
They were also distinctive for their organizational structure. While other schools rely on few leading scholars to spread their ideas (often through persuading the policy makers), the Mohists act more like a (secret) society.
Members come from all walks of life, even the lower caste (Zhou was still a feudal society) can join. It is a strict and formal organization, and it's practicers are famous for their abidance to the ideals, abstinence lifestyle and bravery, which I find similarities mirroring the western monastic/knight orders.

Plus the fact that they have a strong focus on studying science, technologies, maths and ENGINEERING (which are rare among other schools), you can as well paint them as the ancient Chinese illuminati. They are a secret society after all.
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>>63405124
>Socialism with Chinese Characteristics
>Christianity with Chinese Characteristics
Just do Confucianism and call it Christianity.

>>63408306
To be fair, the state is heavily involved. They actually had a conflict with the pope about the appointing of Bishops. It's like the
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
all over again. Especially when you realize they're projected to have more Christians than America by 2040 or so.
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>>63405124
What’s that two-handed flail thing called?
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>>63410224
Can confirm that last bit. I’m 24 and nobody I know in my age group actually believes that god is real. I certainly don’t.
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>>63410224
>Especially when you realize they're projected to have more Christians than America by 2040 or so.
You wouldn't happen to know how friendly the Chinese are to western immigrants, do you?
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>>63410449
Not super friendly considering the culture divide, but it’s easy to get there if you get a job as an English teacher. You don’t even have to learn Chinese first, but that certainly helps. I’m sure the Christians there would at least be willing to welcome a fellow member of the faith. Please do go, we need less of you Jesus freaks in America.
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>>63410610
I don’t really care about helping the image of atheism, it’s not a cohesive movement at all anyway. The only thing one atheist has in common with another is the belief that there is no god/that it cannot be known whether or not there is a god. It can’t really have an image because there is no church of atheism, no doctrine, no creed, no holy text, nothing. It’s an idea, not a religion. I’m of the opinion that the world would be a lot better off if there was no such thing as religion, but that’s hardly a belief every atheist has.
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>>63410658
Why did that guy get his post deleted for calling me out on trolling him and being rude? I was definitely doing both of those things.
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>>63410735
The world may never know.
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And also christianity is the most studied religion IN THE ENTIRITY OF HUMAN HISTORY i`m pretty sure if you serch hard enough you may find some sources about chinise look in christianity and how chinise christianity differs from the main branches (like the communist goverment picking the bishops and archbishops instead of the vatican)
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>>63410355
A flail.
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>>63405124

No fucking clue but I know christianity is becoming more and more popular in today's China.
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>>63405124
essentially sounds like you want to compound confuscianism and natural law, in which case you should look at Natural Law and Aquinas and other teleological concepts in Christianity and conflate them with the celestial order of confuscian principles. In short:
>Confuscianism=Catholicism
>Han Buddhism=Quakers
>Daoism=Episcopalianism
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>>63410417
>Especially the part about it being okay to be a warring, lecherous barbarian, am I right?
At least Mohammed was HONEST about the shit though. When a Muslim guy takes a bunch of wives, engages in a holy war, and stones their son for being gay, he can at least point to the words of his prophet.

But where did Jesus ever give Christians the go ahead to be warring lecherous barbarians, let alone secular, economically ruthless materialists that embrace things like capital punishment?

I wish there were fewer Muslims who took the Koran so seriously and more Christians who took the New Testament as seriously. Better yet, just have everyone convert to Judaism. Most of them don't follow half the shit their prophets say and the stuff they do choose to follow is mostly harmless... comparatively speaking... these days.
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>>63408375
Christian, but keeps their cultural heritage.
Good work chinks, your doing it right
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>>63407603
Fuck VIce. Feigning interest to make a smear report on those people.
>"Triggered 'mass' gun reform protests"
No it fucking did not, it made alot of city dwelling cunts stand in front of cameras and cry for attention.
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>>63407072
To be fair thats Chinese history in a nutshell.
long times of peace interrupted by generation or two of civil war.
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>>63410399
leave the fucking city
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>>63410224
I mean they have a stupidly high population so if going by numbers alone thats not too surprising
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>>63410224
>legalism but called Christianity
How long before the first Chinese Antipope who believes in Our Lord and Savior and that China is numba one?
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>>63411773
REALLY watering it down here but...
Your hand is both part of you, and is a hand.
Your foot is both part of you, and is a foot.
Your hand is not your foot, but both are part of you
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>>63412431
I would be more surprised if a few were not already around.
The churches in china are kinda fragmented
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>>63405147
Yeah no.
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>>63409782
>You can have saints that patronize only one village
But that's how it works in Catholicism.
Every small town or village have a patron saint, every guild or profession also has one.
Saint Florian is a patron of firefighters for example.
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The easiest point of divergence for alt-history is of course the introduction of Nestorian Christianity during the Tang. The emperor at the time of the Stele called Christianity “the illustrious religion,” if he wasn’t a straight up convert he was damn close. That’s your Chinese Constantine, he just needed an IHSV moment to have it take off.

Christianity with Chinese Characteristics (for fantasy or alt-hist) is going to be heavily focused on community virtues with the previously mentioned rolling of saints into ancestor traditions. Though now it’s veneration and not worship, that’s a line that needs to be clearly marked. Nobody wants to think that their illustrious, pre-Christian, ancestor is damned though so your Chinese Christianity will probably be more, not syncretic exactly but more willing to accept the idea that non-Christians who preceded the advent of Christianity in the region are capable of being among the blessed (see Romans 2:14).

The christological differences between Nestorian Christianity and the more known branches in the west have softened considerably since the rise of Islam and thus shouldn’t be a point of much contention or worth discussing.

There should be a Chinese pope, you could even have the Nestorian patriarchate relocate from Antioch to China if you want, but I’d say it would be better to have the Chinese Church hierarchically separate. The emperor is heavily caesaropapist but there is still an official for the running of the church.

Every war, even offensive ones, are defensive doctrinally.
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>>63413860
>Every war, even offensive ones, are defensive doctrinally.
That was a Roman thing dating back before Christianity though
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>>63413827
Forgive me, I'm a little rusty on my Catholicism. I always figured that while a town could have a saints patronage. It would be among a million other things the saint also patronizes so it wouldn't be exclusive.
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>>63414042
Right, and it carried over into Roman Christianity and Nestorius was a Roman bishop before his brouhaha. So the Church he founded should also have it.
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>>63414059
>It would be among a million other things the saint also patronizes so it wouldn't be exclusive.
More or less.
Of course for cities where the saint was born are more tied to him, but it is not as much localized as, for example Japanese "god of that mountain behind the town".
You know, according to Christians theology, saints reside in Heaven, and give their blessing/support from up there, so they can be patrons of all firefighters or several towns at once, no problem.
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>>63405124
So a big deal in Chinese thought (east asian in general but especially Chinese) is the idea of the Mandate of Heaven, with the idea that Divine right to rule was granted by heaven and a ruler could only be successful if the Heavens (or God) had chosen them. Of course there was no real Guideline for what constituted the Mandate of Heaven beyond vague 'virtuous behavior' which was subject to China's concept of 'Face'; so you often had Wag the Dog moments where the failures of a regime were blamed on the fact they obviously did not have the Mandate of Heaven - because no regime that had the Mandate of Heaven could ever fail, obviously.

This often led to a lot of back and forth and infighting as people argued over who REALLY had divine mandate, with the proof in the pudding being who came out on top, so it really boiled down to real politik. Where a Christianized religion wrinkles this is that a priestly class who could interpret scriptures and carried genuine spiritual authority that could not be impugned by the laity. So what you have is the Chinese Pope, much similar to the Western Pope, becoming a power broker, as the church can essentially say who is and who is not righteous in the eyes of heaven. This combined with the fact that a Christian ideology gives them the tremendous clout of controlling the afterlife (something Eastern religious shamans had no authority over) visa vie the concept of excommunication and damnation, would give them a degree of protection from the standard East Asian answer to uppity holymen riling up the peasantry against your rule - which was of course to fucking kill everyone involved looks like my mandate from heaven was stronger, haha.

Of course even in the west, a Popes clout was often only as strong as his real political influence, and history is repleat with the Papacy being snubbed, controlled, attacked, manipulated and ignored as circumstances allowed. But in general it tended to be respected.
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>>63414177
Another thing to consider is the loss of the Confucian ideal of meritocracy to the more western concepts of divine mandate and geneological mastery. An exchange for Christianity robs you of Confucian social mobility (what little there was anyway), but in return you get much stronger dynastic stability as divine mandate can pass down from father to son, and 'ruler and servant' are much more stratified.
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Boy the mods sure dont like this thread
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>>63413860
>Though now it’s veneration and not worship, that’s a line that needs to be clearly marked. Nobody wants to think that their illustrious, pre-Christian, ancestor is damned though so your Chinese Christianity will probably be more, not syncretic exactly but more willing to accept the idea that non-Christians who preceded the advent of Christianity in the region are capable of being among the blessed (see Romans 2:14).
Isn't that what Catholics call Virtuous Pagans, like Cicero and Plato? Do you imagine something like that or something more extreme?
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>>63406821
That's so reductionist you may as well say Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion.

Also Confucianism isn't a religion, it's a social philosophy.
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>>63415565
Why?

>>63417183
Even in Europe Christian nations liked to look up to the more or less real "ancestors" from the pagan times.
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>>63409749
Are you aware that the Immaculate Conception does NOT refer to the birth of Christ, but of Mary, who, of course, had to be born without original sin in order to bear the son of God?

Are you aware of the Assumption, where Mary just straight up teleported into Heaven, rather than ever dying? Or maybe she did die, then resurrected, and then teleported into Heaven?

The Harrowing of Hell, where Jesus, while dead from the Crucifixion but before his resurrection, went into Hell and freed all the righteous souls that were damned before they could learn his salvation?

Can you name the Seven Sacraments?


I'm just saying these are Catholicism 101, and I didn't learn about them until I was in college.
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>>63417671
>Harrowing of Hell
Kind of a meme how Dante claimed the only guys he let free were Biblical figures like Noah and his sons and left all the Greeks and other historical figures to rot in Limbo.
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>>63417183
I would say even more than just being “virtuous pagans” the illustrious pre-Christian ancestors would need to be seen as being direct forerunners of Christian virtue in order to be ancestor-saints.

If you are familiar with The Elder Scrolls the closest analogy I can think of is the Anticipations of the Tribunal. Ancestor-Saints must be Anticipations of their Christian kin.
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>>63405124
you might want to look into the Uyghur Khaganate and Nestorian Christianity
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>>63405207
>Everyone and their mother knows Catholic theology
most Catholics don't even have a good understanding of Catholic theology and are essentially Protestants in all but name. Most don't know or understand what Transubstantiation is and just view it as a symbolic blessing of the bread and wine by the priest. Similar misunderstandings and heresies abound since most people forget what they've learned in Sunday school and don't bother reading any kind of supplementary material, even simple and dumbed down stuff like The Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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>>63420590
>and are essentially Protestants in all but name.
Even the most clueless Catholic worship Mary and Saints.
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>>63421469
Worship isn't the right phrase for saints.
The Catholic perspective isn't that you pray to them, you pray with them. They're conduits and messengers you use to help you commune with God.
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>>63423497
But it is worship. It attributes credit to them for things they don't do. Like all cults and heresies the catholic church is just one gigantic series of blocks people try to force inbetween humans and God, trying to put as much power in the hands of humans as possible.
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Go to a Chinese church and find out. It's not like this is some new thing. At the current rate, there will be more Christians in Asia than Europe or north America.
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>>63420590
It's fun explaining transubstantiation to my non-catholic friends.
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>>63410582
>we need less of you Jesus freaks in America.
You objectively need more. Also I have and always will choose to take Jesus freak as a compliment.
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>>63424588
I love when Protestants who literally know nothing about my religion tell me about it. Please go on and tell me more about Intercession of the Saints.
>the catholic church
Oh yeah, it's totally an invention of the Catholic Church and not something that predates it and is found in all three of the oldest branches of Christianity, Latin Rite Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Oriental Orthodoxy.
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>>63425147
>I love when Protestants who literally know nothing about my religion tell me about it. Please go on and tell me more about Intercession of the Saints.
Call it whatever you want hon, but the Bible is clear on idolatry. Christianity isn't an ancestor cult and we're ordered by God not to speak with the dead.
>Oh yeah, it's totally an invention of the Catholic Church and not something that predates it and is found in all three of the oldest branches of Christianity, Latin Rite Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Oriental Orthodoxy.
First of all, I didn't call it an invention of the catholics, I said it had it in common with other cults and heresies, and following Jesus predates all three of those branches. The disciples weren't ancestor worshipers and they did not teach people to be so.
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>Protestants and Catholics arguing
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>>63425461
>ThirtyYearsWar.png
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>>63405254
>>63405124
>>63405147
>>63405207
you keep asking how the result would be. The chinese are fucking attriciously apathetic to human suffering, the destruction of life and even children. To the extent that they wont even take futile steps to avert their destructive behavior. They are bug people, and it is unlikely that any religious system they come up with around christianity will resemble the core principles in any way and still maintain the chinese culture.
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>>63425808
You take memes too seriously.
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>>63417671
>I'm just saying these are Catholicism 101, and I didn't learn about them until I was in college.
Because they hide them, because they are FUCKING RETARDED
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>>63425816
that poster is just an Asian who isn't a PRC national, or a brave PRC national who isn't han chinese.

Bugmen still feels generous, they're really more of just a locust species that consumes and doesn't create.
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>>63426376
Catholicism is just a long line of people citing heretics who cite heretics who cite heretics who cite heretics who cite heretics who cite an angry asshole eternally buttmad about fruit and people sinfully not liking being raped. It's reached the point where they'll actually say "But... but... it doesn't matter if the bible contradicts me! Also, please ignore the massive amounts of institutional corruption and the fact we've been unable to deal with child molesters for decades now! Ignore the fact that every single Diocese in Pennsylvania was lousy with them to the point the archbishops had filing cabinets full of rapist priests they knew about yet did nothing for! WE HAVE MORAL AUTHORITY, PLEASE!"
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>>63426500
Like I said, you take memes too seriously.
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>>63410449
>>63410582
Not sure if you're still here, but don't.
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>>63425808
This
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>>63426638
Calling bullshit on indulgences makes us muslims?
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>>63405124
Jesus had a demon-killing chinese brother, yuo know?
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can you imagine the crusaders struggling with the hordes of islam in the holy land, jerusalem besieged by endless waves of the barbarians and just as all hope seems lost the crusaders look to the east and in the glare of the rising sun they see the gleaming Dagger-axes of the armies of the king they know as 'Prester John'
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>>63425461
>>63425713
I'm on whatever side the Germans are not regardless of religious doctrine.
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>>63426638
>Make an entire religion based on a book
>Get butt mad that another part of the religion is better at following the book than you are
>Absolutely seething they have more faith in the book than your dramatically extrapolated ritualism
loving every laugh
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What's with all the deleted posts?
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>>63427662
they offend islam
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>>63407603
I would join based solely on those qt asain members.
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>>63427662
Posters were beheaded for insulting Allah
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>>63427662
4channel is an Islam only website
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>>63427662
>lolsorandum rants about gays, christianity, executions, pseudo intellectualism, flame, general faggotry
>All of this absolutely unrelated to traditional games, retarded and not making sense
>>Uh, what's up with the cleanup!?!
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>>63427662
For insulting ALLAH (Subhana wata'ala) on this Halal website of course.
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>>63431665
I hate it when it turns out /pol/ was right
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>>63425246
Not the same guy, but Peter and Jesus meet Moses and Elijah in the gospel of Matthew, and both of them died, correct? If so, being forbidden from speaking to the dead seems like it’s thrown out the window
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>>63425246
>The disciples weren't ancestor worshipers
>"Hey friend, I'm having some trouble, can you please pray for me?"
>*Beats the shit out of him for idolatry
Ah yes, notorious protestard """""theology"""""



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