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>Succubi turn out to be the greatest weapon that Hell has ever devised
>In order to match it, Heavens send an army of angels to tempt men into doing good and serve them as loyal life companions
Does this idea sound good to you?
>>
>>63392196
I've heard this pitch before but I approve.

Here's how I'm thinking about it- Angels are essentially a race of waifu's. You know how guys here will go on about this waifu, or that waifu? Angels do the reverse in Heaven- being assigned to you, you are their Husbando, and while they put up a front of being pure for the sake of image (wouldn't want to come across as a slutty demon), they are extremely horny, just too shy to come out with it.
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>>63392196
Only if angels have better aesthetics than the succubi, and I don't mean "hur big titti". It's about the fashion, the personality, the stance. The PRESENCE.
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>>63392196
>In order to match it, Heavens send an army of angels to tempt men into doing good and serve them as loyal life companions
That's not how being good works.
If you need to be bribed to be good you're doing it for selfish reasons, which isn't good at all.
>>
The hell is with all the angelposting today?
>>63390147
>>63381552
>>63386917
Fess up, are you cute catholic girl trying to trick us into the Lord's light?
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>>63392196
Cringe
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>>63392196
>Heavens send an army of angels to tempt men into doing good
That's neither how Heaven nor how Good works

>>63392261
My dude!
>>
Instead of captcha there should be some sort of virginity checker. Entire board would be cleansed of shitposts instantly.
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>>63392280
Not the OP, but that one on the bottom is mine. The picture is actually of Mennas from Dungeon Crawl, an angel who was a former human martyr that had his tongue cut out, and who has the ability to use the "silence" spell to pretty much permanently shut down any spellcasting (hence the "shush" signal he makes with his finger).

I don't know why I said any of that, I just thought it was kind of cool.
>>63392196
As long as the angel that is assigned to me is at least 50 feet tall I am completely okay with this.
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>>63392331
>at least 50 feet tall
Three meters max, anything past that is degeneracy.
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>>63392261
That's the entire point of heaven or hell.

It's why people think Athiests are immoral- they don't worry about heaven or hell, and thus don't care about good or evil, or so the conventional wisdom goes- athiests have no reason to be good people.
>>63392280
Honestly I'd love to take up that challenge.
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>>63392261
>>63392305
>>63392319
When did this board get infested by redditors all of the sudden? It's like people forgot how /tg/ used to be.
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>>63392361
Three meters isn't big enough to smother you completely under her warm soft buttcheeks.
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>anyone who calls out my shitpost must be reddit

Absolute cringe
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>>63392361
On the one hand, angels are divines, and thus can easily reach Kaiju levels of size.

On the other hand, it is total degeneracy. That said, I'd really only want a woman to be twice my size, and even then I think it would only benefit the cuddling slightly with diminishing returns.
>>
>>63392196
Sounds like Hell just pulled a palette swap for a laff. They'd be better off sending Archangels to Create Food in not-africa en masse, then a couple of generations later, flooding Hell with niggers. That deals with hell and not-africa.
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>>63392376
Yes it is. You must be doing it wrong.
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>>63392397
>For the first ten years, Hell celebrates the influx of fresh souls
>Then the realization kicks in
>The gates of Hell are locked and barred from the outside
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>>63392404
If any part of your body, hands, feet, head, is visible from the outside while she's sitting on you, then you're not being smothered completely. In fact, she should preferably be big enough to hide you by wedging you between her cheeks, or inside her cleavage.
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>>63392280
we had three demon/fiend threads up at the same time last week
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>>63392196
not quite what you're thinking OP, but in one of my settings actually, the origin of humanity is that we descend from what are basically, the divine equivalents of succubi and incubi who were sent into the world to help bring intelligent life to it... knocking up or getting knocked up with a race of divinely imbued hybrids.

This is why humanity is so able to breed with any race and why they're so damn sex driven.
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>>63392367
>Reddit boogeyman
Fuck off. As much as you whine about "how 4chan used to be", if you were to experience exactly that todady you'd call it reddit.
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>>63392196
>>63392261
Tempt is seriously the wrong word here. Inspire would have been better
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>>63392196
you can call the game

Angel T.H.O.T.S.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x82xwv
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>>63392495
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNTGjzUdSts
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>>63392196
Succubi offer sex anytime, while angels offer love, cuddles, and home-cooked meals.
Angels will bring over the proper people who can resist base instincts in pursuit of love and fulfillment.
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>>63392529
What do I do if I want a happy heart AND a happy penis though?
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>>63392504
I spend time looking once in a while and I Know it was 25 years ago but someone must have taken picture of the life size Standee that was in every 711 of Kari Wuhrer as an angel
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>>63392539
Marry the angel.
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>>63392331
>Mennas
I hate that cunt so fucking much. Fuck you for reminding me about him.
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>>63392196
>succubi are the greatest weapon

No they aint. Not all men are desperate horndogs like you.


Now hellfire nukes, THOSE are the greatest weapon
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>>63392591
>Not all men are desperate horndogs like you.
If they weren't, there's absolutely no reason why men would put up with the shit women give them.
>>
The human species can be summed up as a Giant Pussy. Men are so irrationally obsessed with pussy that in turn they become the biggest pussy in the world. What I wouldn't give to make a movie that insults every single aspect of men's lust for pussy. I'd even do a scene with a man being told by his local priest during his wedding:

"Do you Beta Loser Male agree to marry this harpy who will divorce rape you in a few years time and take your kids so that YOU pay Child Support"

And the dumbass says happily that he will. And the priest says:

"I now pronounce you Stupid Beta Wallet and Leech, you may kiss."

Don't say men do NOT deserve to be insulted for their irrational worship of pussy. From what I see men do not learn. So overwhelmingly most men deserve to be screwed by women in the ways they don't like.
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>>63392361
For waifu purposes, a tall girl should be no more than twice the size of her husbando, because after that point it becomes impossible to perform oral sex on her from a standing or leaning position without a stepstool or ladder.

For fetish purposes, a girl should be no more than twelve times the size of her husbando, because after that point using the male's entire body as a living dildo becomes increasingly less satisfying.
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>>63392633
Unironically, not even joking, absolutely zero irony in my heart, redpilled and based.
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>>63392633
Question- what room do you make for lesbians, gay men, and asexuals?
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>>63392646
Diminishing returns.
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>>63392633
What if I told you I prefer my pussies to literally be giant?
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>>63392633
I used to unironically believe this, but then I fucked a crossdresser in the ass and realized that pussy was, in fact, significantly better.
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>>63392618
Pussy aint the only motivation. There are other feelins involved. Likewise, women don't give that much shit at all. 'Sjust an unconcious bias that people see the negatives of somethin more than the positives. I myself am chaste, and have many friends of both genders. Whilst females are more... sly, and prone to drama, it is not malicious intent that drives them.

The pathetic losers who lack the will to resist a succubus are not much of a loss in the war on hell. Brute force is far more efficient for the forces of hell unless infiltration is key
>>
>>63392633
>>63392669
You know, the Samurai practiced homosexuality as a form a misogyny.
>>
It's really just a pivot from heaven's traditional fear based model. Do good or you'll go to hell!
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>>63392705
My question is if women get male angel husbando's like out of some tortured YA novel as well.
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>>63392676
>Pussy aint the only motivation
How many men would date a woman who literally has no vagina? For how many of those men would "she still has an ass and a mouth, dawg" be the decisive factor?

>Likewise, women don't give that much shit at all.
Uh-huh... sure
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>>63392740
>How many men would date a woman who literally has no vagina?
The same amount who would date a barren woman.
It's not about the sex in and of itself, though that may be a bonus, it's about the social and biological pressures to have offspring.
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>>63392740
>For how many of those men would "she still has an ass and a mouth, dawg" be the decisive factor?
You say that like oral and anal are the only other forms of sex. There's like a dozen different forms of frotting availible, and even if she was a disembodied voice with no physical prescence, I once maintained a long distance relationship a large part because she was just that good at JOI chats.
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>>63392752
What does being barren have to do with sex? In fact, it's an advantage as you can pump as much into her as you want without risk of being trapped with a baby.
>it's about the social and biological pressures to have offspring
You're really undercutting your point here

>>63392789
Goes to show you how creative men can get if it's about getting off.
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>>63392319
There are some non-virgins who are perfectly good posters. One guy in my group even has a kid, and he's still able to hold a decent discussion.
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>>63392470
I mean, in this case I get what he's talking about. This would have turned into an angel porn dump once upon a time. But it's not like /tg/ ever didn't discuss ethics and the nature of good and evil at every possible opportunity.
>>
Only the weakest and most foolish of men would surrender their soul for sex. Even selling your soul for riches is a better yet. The only deal worth taking is that which grants power and knowledge, as you just might survive when the devil comes to collect his due.
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>>63392669
Anal is better when it's your ass.
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>>63392261
>If you need to be bribed to be good
Refusing to recognize how you are bribed doesn't make you any better. Typically it stands for 'I want approval but my authority figure won't give me any if I say it loud'.
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>>63392280
It's about time angels got their time in the spotlight. Demons have always gotten a fuckload.
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>>63392934
It's not about wanting something. Being good is about doing what's right because it's right. If you are doing it out of fear, or out of a desire for anything aside from the desire to do good for it's own sake, you're now bringing in vice to your actions. They may be good actions but you're not doing them as a good person.
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>>63392947
Too bad that's not how things are seen. If you aren't religious, you can't be a good person because the only way to be good is to fear the repercussions of being bad.
Queue that one kid who can become a good because God doesn't exist.
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>>63392967
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>>63392196
>>Succubi turn out to be the greatest weapon that Hell has ever devised
But they're average mid-tier monsters?
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>>63392255
Holy shit I need to go play this again now
Thanks for reminding me of my childhood
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>>63392196
>Forsooth, send money toward the orphans and you shall receive a kiss upon thou cheek.
Vs
>ah, yeah so if you spit in that guys soup I’ll suck ya cock.
You tell me.
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>>63393293
>if you do something that's worth the equivalent of five dollars I'll let you shove your cock in my cunt that's had generations of degenerates and murderers ploughing it
Vs
>I will give thee true love, as Thou art mine first love. I will be thine angel forevermore from now until the end of time, if thou wilt be a good person.
>>
>>63392196
This is the premise for MGE
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>>63392196

can /tg/ please go back to being a NO FUN ALLOWED police state? that is by far preferable to all of these weebs and furries spamming porn at us all day. someone has to stop these faggots
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>>63392196
replace tempt with inspire.
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>>63392365
This is an infantile view of morality and religion. I'm guessing primarily brought on by primarily getting exposed to the idea of morality through the lens of American Evangelicals. Religions and other non-religious systems of morality do not presuppose that people who subscribe to other philosophies are inherently immoral. To do so shows that your own philosophy has no actual logical grounding.
>>63392196
This is a really dumb idea and doesn't understand what it means to be good. Someone should be good for self actualized reasons and from their own desire to be good, whereas evil can be committed for any motive and is only concerned with the action itself. This is why the forces of hell in mythologies and fiction use tempters like succubi. They have to be constantly reinforcing evil behaviors to avoid the mortal redeeming themselves. The mortal can at any time choose to reject evil, so the tempter must stay with them an constantly influence them to do evil until the deal is finally sealed with the mortal's death.

Really if the forces of Heaven were to make an "anti-succubus" it would be in the form of beings to give mortals a frame of mortality and education before releasing them to do good on their own free of supervision. So really less seducers and more angelic foster parents and teachers.

I mean you seem intent on making a waifu race, so if you must make these angelic Obi Wan's sexy, so for it but make sure their sexiness is not supposed to be the prime motivator of good.
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>>63393363
Given a nice big THONK about it, I'd go with the Angel.
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>>63393473
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>>63392261
>If you need to be bribed to be good you're doing it for selfish reasons, which isn't good at all.
I guess every religion is bad because it's all a big bribe to 'get out if he'll free' card.
Oh wait.
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>>63393574
This is literally not the case for any philosophically developed religion. Really the only religions that follow this model are American Protestants. So yes I would argue that all those sorts of Protestant thinking that goes by those lines is in fact inherently evil. They are a belief in a horrifying sky bully who you must placate with praise. Hence why they are heretics to true Christianity and less legitimate than even heathens.
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>>63393680
You have it ass backwards, retard. Protestants are the hardliner salvation-by-grace promoters. The next time you want to put on your fedora and do a jig, do your research.
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>>63393749
That is my exact point retard. They believe the only criteria for salvation is saying you believe in Jesus because God in their eyes is a monster who needs to have his ego stroked. Real Christians believe that grace and by extension salvation is bestowed by good works which in order to be good must have truly selfless motives. This is also why Catholics, Orthodox, Jews, etc must believe in a Limbo, Purgatory, Sheol, or equivalent. You are not being threatened with Hell as the failure for being good is merely a temporary stay on salvation not actual damnation.Hell being reserved those who knowingly reject good rather than simply failing to meet a quota or not saying the right magic words.

Similarly with Buddhism one must not desire Nirvana to achieve Nirvana. The penalty for failure is continuing to reincarnate rather than any sort of permanent Hell.
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>>63392484
But it isn’t inspiring because there is no example and an actice reward. An officer charging directly into battle himself inspires his men. An officer offering a shiny medal and better pension to the first soldier over the top is tempting his men.
>>
>missing the point of angels and demons
So fucking tired of waifufags.
The reason angels don't go around tempting men to do Good is because that's not what Good is or does.
>>63392261
Oh look someone with some sense beat me to it.
>>
>ctrl+f houri
>0 answer

You're all a bunch of fucking newfags.
>>
Bump
>>
LOVE ME, ANON-SAN
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>>63393514
Atheists are the least trusted group in America, more than atheists.

Evangelicals aren’t big on logic. They are big on doctrine.
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>>63397343
*more than Muslims I mean.
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>>63393514
>mommy angel wants only to raise you right
I can dig it.
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>>63393850
>because God in their eyes is a monster who needs to have his ego stroked.
That's not how it works at all. You're just acccepting a gift, freely given.protestants teach to do the right thing just because you fucking should, not because you are threatened with hell if you don't. And this line of thinking is exactly how the new testament is written. Papist scum that you are, you've managed to twist benevolence, tolerance, and forgiveness into arogance. It's foolish, and vain.
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>>63392196
Hindu gods sometimes send beautiful celestial maidens to charm saints. They usually turn to the path of kama, love, and marry them.
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>>63397442
Who goes to hell?
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last second
>An Athiest who dedicates his life to charity
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>>63392947
>Being good is about doing what's right because it's right.
You think it's right because it feels right, because it essentially feels rewarding. There is nothing wrong with that. Funny thing, I met this neurotic denial of reward for good deeds among the same American protestants you accuse of acting through fear.
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>>63397489
The former does not, unless his repentance was not genuine, which is probable.
As far as the latter goes, who can say? The bible makes it clear that accepting god is not a matter of simply being unsure of whether or not he exists. All people should end up with a fair shot to accept or reject, one way or another. And if the man is truely good, and merely dismissed that which he could not detect, surely he would do fine, yes?
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>>63397635
If God does not make it obvious to someone who is simply being reasonably critical and skeptical, then it’s gods fault not the athiests.
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>>63397635
>The former does not, unless his repentance was not genuine, which is probable.

Who goes to hell?
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last second
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last day
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last five years
>A thief and murderer who repents at the 50 years
>A thief and murderer who repents at the 500 years, out of eight hundred thousand years slaughtering galaxies under his iron fist and seizing all within his reach as his to command
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>>63392196
>Hell has bat-winged sluts tempting humanity to evil
>Heaven has fluffy-winged waifus/Husbandos that inspire humanity to greatness

It's a essentially a repurposed angel/devil on the shoulder dynamic but with more cute. I may use it in my games, but I would have to find a way of introducing it without coming off as a creepy neckbeard.
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>>63397666
Obviously. What of the billions born and died in countries where the faith is poorly understood or culturally repressed? Obviously some other chance must be granted.
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>>63397635
Who goes to hell?
>a christian, who got a bad bible that said to stone heatens to death and didn't get the update, and stoned three protestants to death before getting shot by police

>an atheist baby who died before reading the bible
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>>63397712
>Who goes to hell?
Probably the one attempting to undermine god with impossible hypotheticals.
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>>63397749
>>63397747
Also no such bible exists.
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>>63394934
Tempting was definitely the wrong word to use. Inspiring would probably fit better. The Angels would not actually promise any reward, but humans may perform good acts out of their love for the divine entities, even though they know they will gain nothing from it. Similar to how a neckbeard may be inspired by his own fictional waifu to exercise, eat healthy, or whatever.
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>>63397712
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last second
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last day
>A thief and murderer who repents at the last five years
>A thief and murderer who repents at the 50 years
If their repentance was genuine, they won't go to hell. There were early Christian sects which practiced murder-suicide and other sinful practices to attain martyrdom and repent in the last moment. The question is did they really repent? You shouldn't feel bad about person who lived long life of sin and managed to truly change in his last days. You should be happy for him. One way or another you can't trick god and there is really no point trying.
>A thief and murderer who repents at the 500 years, out of eight hundred thousand years slaughtering galaxies under his iron fist and seizing all within his reach as his to command
Yep, his actions demonstrate that he didn't repent and lived wicked life after that.
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>>63393680
Just call them evangelicals. Some of us protestants are good...unlike catholics.
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>>63397800
>If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Deuteronomy 17

>6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death.

Deuteronomy 13

he only got the first half and not the update

>>63397773
nice try, but I'm buddhist, so this is already hell
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>>63397838
What aout consequence? Like okay, the guy really meant it. That doesn't undo all the harm, greif, and evil of his actions. It doesn't un-murder those people. Love they neighbor and everything, but where is the room for justice? Wouldn't a better system be that if the guy repents, he gets to be some sort of ghost-cop or something so he can start making up for his actions, rather than facing no punishment whatsoever?
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>>63392261
What's the diferrence between doing things for selfish reasons and selflessly doing things for because they feel right/good?
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>>63397849
Evangelicals really deserve to be their own category at this point. They pull way too much shit.
>>63397941
I even argue that it's always in our self-interest to be moral. You don't murder people, because it's in your self-interest to not want to live in a society where people murder each-other.

Some people are altruistic, which is praiseworthy, but I'd argue missing the point somewhat.
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>>63392280
>Catholics
>approving of lewd thoughts or ideas in any fashion what so ever
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>>63397472
yeah resisting temptation is why Ghandi slept with naked teen age girls in the bed
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>>63397865
>Deuteronomy
Old testament doesn't count. Also that's apostasy, not heresy.
>he only got the first half and not the update
Well then he's a jew and not a christian. And they too will have some unambiguous chance to accept forgiveness.
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>>63398021
He was raising his power level
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>>63398027
What about when there are only latin bibles everywhere, and you have to go with the word of the priest that indulgences are perfectly a-ok with god?
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>>63397993
>It's another "catholics hate sex" meme
Where do you think the stereotype of the Irish family with 12 kids comes from? Pure, monk-like abstinence? Rather than despising lewdness, catholicism offers an acceptable context for lewdness.
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>>63398091
What about it? Obviously that's not correct, but only those responsible should be held accountable.
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>>63398121
>catholicism offers an acceptable context for lewdness.
Being "Sex for the sole purpose of procreation". Had those spuds been doing anal instead, they probably wouldn't have a litter of children.
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>>63398121
Catholic priest love sex

with little boys
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>>63398123
>only those responsible should be held accountable
Why?
Does it say that as the word of god?
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>>63398121
I think that has much more to do with socioeconomic status than it has to do with religion- ie large swaths of the catholic world have sucked economically at different points of time, and poorer people have more kids than richer people.
>>63398155
On that note- what the acceptable amount of lewding I can do with my wife if it's not procreational?
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>>63397119
This is wonderful
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>>63398211
>On that note- what the acceptable amount of lewding I can do with my wife if it's not procreational?
H*ndholding
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>>63398208
Does what say what? What is your question?
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>>63392196
I remember one game where you could pray away any feelings of lust or anger and, if it got particularly bad, you could be granted permission to use one of the saints as a loophole around the whole penalty for unsanctioned sex the setting had.
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>>63398211
Relaxing back rubs, kissing in public, foot massage, oral sex, anal once a month.
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>>63398266
Why should only those who are responsible be held accountable?

If you're taught from birth that torturing people and killing people and eating them and desecrating the bodies, and that is because that's the only way to get people to heaven, do you go to hell when you die?

What if you actually DO those things and kill and eat folks because you were taught that's the only way to save them?

Because someone wrote a shitty fanfiction about an edgy god of death and you found it and believed what it said?
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>>63398429
Ought implies know. That I ought not to electrocute my neighbor implies I know he'll be electrocuted when I turn on my lights.

So human sacrifices and witch burnings are bad, but for the actors to be bad they must know and understand that it's bad. It's the difference between executing a serial killer, and executing a man accused of being a serial killer.
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>>63398429
As I've said all along, all people will get a fair chance at forgiveness. As far as the human perspective goes, obviously one who is misled to do evil is less culpable than the trickster.
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>>63392196
>Angel and Succubi love you and want to be your soulfu and lead you to a life of intellectual and spiritual refinement/earthly indulgence
>It's not just that they both want to be your soulfu and guard over you the rest of your life because they love you, they fear that their rival will ruin your life.
>They compete for your affections for one month, and by the end of the month you have to choose which one to reject
>If you don't choose they have a hand to hand duel (and clad in the sexiest lingerie) in front of you. Your thoughts and feelings empower whoever you feel the most love/lust for. Loser must verbally surrender her claim to your soul. She might also be forced to grovel at the feet of her rival and pledge herself to be her handmaiden slave.

How's this?
>>
>>63398396
>anal
Sodomite
>>
>>63398708
I don't insist on using this option
>>
>>63392261
Consider the following:
Reverse-Succubi, a new creation of Hell in its war for souls. Thay attach themselves to sinners on verge of redemption and reward them for all and any good deeds they do. As their good works becomes tainted by self-interest, it no longer counts for porposes of redemption, condemning the mortal to hell.
>>
>>63392196
If Good is happiness sharing itself, sinners converting to loyalty to divine tenets out of self-satisfaction provided by specifically designated waifu angels doesn't necessarily qualify them as Good. They need to be taught that kindness is the best policy and benefits everyone, and having their own personal "angel" to sit on their dick doesn't achieve that.
>>
>>63399397
Sounds like a comfy hell. What's my punishment, we sit on a beanbag forever watching anime together?
>>63399436
Now I'm thinking of shoulder angels, but instead of the shoulders it's the dick.

I really do not understand the idea that you can't do good for self-interested reasons, especially since I'm of the opinion that morality is in our own self-interest to begin with.
>>
>>63398527
>She might also be forced to grovel at the feet of her rival and pledge herself to be her handmaiden slave.
Now this is podracing.
>>
>>63399480
It's a nice thought, but I wanted to take the premise of motivation tainting the good and take that to its conclusion. That demands hell to be unpleasant.

On the other hand, Hell that uses such methods might as well be really weird, and I wish someone more creative than me figured out how.
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>>63399730
Oh! I know. You do get snuggles and anime binging in hell, but she doesn't really care about you, she's baing paid to be with you by the Devil. For all eternity.
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>>63399845
I’ll take it. I’m not being cuddled by a Succubus to begin with.
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>>63392240
But my ideal waifu wouldn't put up a front of purity. She'd be open about her horniness and seduce me aggressively.

>>63392255
Angels, like succubi, usually have shapeshifting powers, so they could have any aesthetics they wanted.
>>
>>63400461
That’s why you need to coax it out of her first.
>>
>>63400617
The reason my ideal waifu is sexually aggressive is because I'm the one who needs coaxing. I'm basically looking for a role reversal.
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>>63398708
The problem with the people of Sodom was that they insisted on raping guests, not that they did it in the back door.
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>>63392280
I just want an angel to seduce, love, and heal me.
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>>63400746
Then why is sodomy anal sex and not rape? The term ‘sodomite’ would have more weight to it if it meant rapist.
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>>63400746
The problem with Sodom was that they completely turned away from God, not any individual issue.
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>>63392676
>women don't give that much shit at all
>I myself am chaste
These opinions are not unrelated. Have you considered that being chaste is the reason it appears to you that women don't give much shit at all?
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>>63400897
I don’t think the Sodomites were Jewish anyway, so why does that matter?
>>
>>63398708
Remember ladies, don't use your poophole as a loophole.
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>>63400836
Technically, "sodomy" just refers to illegal sexual activities, and it's associated with anal because that was widely prohibited for a while there.
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>>63392196
I'm curious how they'd "tempt" people. Also, is it really a "good" deed if you have to be bribed into doing it?
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>>63400746
Have you considered that both of these are problems? Raping guests under protection of the laws of hospitality is greater offense than sodomy. Not that sodomy is fine.
>>
>>63392633
What a gross oversimplification of male sexuality and male emotions.

When men want is a connection, both physical and emotional. But our society treats men as disposable drones, and tells them they're inherently worthless and have to essentially earn their humanity with worldly accomplishments in order to be considered worthy of affection or a human connection. Our culture starves men emotionally and then takes advantage of the vulnerability that results, which is made even easier by convincing men that they're not allowed to complain lest they forfeit their "real man" status and be relegated to "pussy beta loser" status.

And people like you contribute to the problem by dumbing it all down to "LOL those betas are slaves to pussy and deserve what they get LOL."
>>
>>63400746
>Ignoring the "You can't fuck my guests, but you're welcome to bang my daughters if you'd like. They're virgins!" bit of the story
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>>63400998
Good man.
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>>63392752
>It's not about the sex in and of itself, though that may be a bonus, it's about the social and biological pressures to have offspring.
Not him, but no. I don't want kids at all. Infertility would be a plus for me.
>>
>>63400998
Also, I should probably say that this is in no way a defense of women. They *do* put men through a lot of shit, and they shouldn't. They have a lot to answer for. What I'm against is the victim-blaming that all the "LOL beta losers!" crap constitutes.
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>>63401032
Hey, the daughters never said they weren't up for it! And having sex outside marriage wasn't bad yet.

What's worse is that sodom and gomorrah was wiped out, including any and all babies in there. That's right, babies. Proof that God thinks there's no such thing as innocents, only those who don't worship him. Why else would he kill the babies too? He totally could have NOT killed them in biblical hellfire.
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>>63392752
I'd date a barren woman, I've no desire for children and totally eliminating pregnancy scares would be a huge bonus.
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>>63401079
>Why else would he kill the babies too?
He saved them from their terrible parents. They weren't going to hell after getting nuked by god.
>>
>>63401113
>totally eliminating pregnancy scares
Careful there, breh. Sometimes Mother Nature strikes when you least expect it.
>>
>>63401079
Is there actual proof that those cities contained babies? Seems like the kind of place that would be really into abortion, get most of its population by immigration
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>>63393293
Well that's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one.

>>63393363
>I will give thee true love, as Thou art mine first love. I will be thine angel forevermore from now until the end of time, if thou wilt be a good person.
"And there shalt be much passionate fucking."
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>>63395834
Aren't Houri those celestial nymphos who are even more sex-crazed than succubi?
>>
>>63392331
>>63392570

In the older versions of DCSS, wasn't he an angel that just went crazy and started killing everyone? That's what I remember.
>>
>>63392196
this is the plot of Macho women with Guns
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>>63401219
>The Bible doesn't mention babies, so there weren't any!
I guess that means no babies were harmed in Noah's Flood by that logic, since their horrible watery deaths weren't referenced there either.
>>
>>63397489
Neither of them goes to Hell, because Hell doesn't exist. God forgives everyone eventually.
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>>63401346
Chapter and verse, please.
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>>63401384
>He thinks God and the afterlife must necessarily accord with the Christian Bible
I think I understand your anger at religion: You have a very limited idea of it.
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>>63397489

Hell is Dante's fanfiction.
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>>63401384
No chapter or verse says that hell doesn't exist, but rather, there's no chapter or verse which says it does. It's just a pagan superstition that the papists incorporated into their perversion of God's word to make extending their control easier.
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>>63401439
Pagans usually don't have Hell as the place of torture for many people. Most people go to bleak hopeless afterlife of Sheol and Hades. Great people can be defied, wicked people sometimes earn eternal punishment in Tartarus. For most people it's just kind of crap.
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>>63401427
So, you can just make up whatever you want whenever it's convenient.
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>>63398527
I'd prefer

>Despite their initial rivalry, the angel and the succubus get to know each other, learn from each other, and grow to love each other as much as they love you
>They both embrace you and you live happily ever after with both of them in a threeway relationship
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>>63392196
No.
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>>63401427
You're one of those "atheists all secretly believe in God, but they're just mad at him because of something bad that happened in their life" people, aren't you.
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>>63401643
No. I'm one of those "Tired of obnoxious atheists attacking a strawman version of God and dismissing all spirituality because of the stupidity of American evangelicals" people.
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>>63401496
Yeah, it's specifically the pagans of northern Europe. Greeks were long irrelevant before there was such a thing as a Catholic, and Sheol isn't even pagan, that's Jewish.
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>>63401032
>Ignoring the parts where the raping gangs denied the offer
>Ignoring the fact that Lot deliberately emphasized the virginal status of his daughters
>Ignoring the fact that the Ancient World was an honor obsessed one
>Ignoring the fact that rape was frequently used to dishonor POWs in the Ancient World, among others by Romans
>Ignoring the fact that there is zero honor in raping virgin girls
>Misreading Scripture with Western Eyes
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>>63401701
Shouldn’t you be more mad at the evangelicals for practicing such a retarded version of the faith it gives all Christians a bad name? You know, keep house?
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>>63398527
>>63399482
>>63401620
Threesome isn't allowed. You got to pick

1. Choose angel
2. Choose succubus
3. Have them fight (with angel winning)
4. Have them fight (with succubus winning)

Closest you can get to a three way is having one lose to the other and become her slave.

What do you pick?
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>>63402000
>It's okay because they said no
>Surprised that he emphasized their virginity in a "virgin women are valuable" culture
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>>63402160
>It's okay because they said no
But that's wrong. What I'm saying is "if we are to take Job's offer at face value, why did the mob refuse?". You still haven't answered that question. Keep in mind that at the same time your answer has to be compatible with both Lot being a virtuous man and what we know of honor-based societies of the Ancient Mediterranean.

Good luck.
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>>63399397

That is a devilish clever idea for a devil plan and i'm fucking stealing it
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>>63402139
I’d like both to be slaves, but on the other hand, independent woman that will break other women to be your skates cause she loves you is anundervalued fetish. The question would be do you prefer corruption or purification?
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>>63402139
>Threesome isn't allowed.
When a succubus is involved, threesomes are *always* allowed.
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>>63402187

>zero honor in raping virgin girls
>mediterranean myths are fucking full of virgin girls killing themself after being raped


Goddamit at least try faking a culture
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>>63402187
>if we are to take Job's offer at face value, why did the mob refuse?"
To show that the Sodomites didn't give a shit about the hospitality rules of the region which were pretty culturally important at that time. Because it's a work of fictional that's supposed to impart a moral, not a historical account.
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>>63392196
Neither married nor given to marriage
Also Angels are meant to be dutiful servants and valiant soldiers, not thots
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>>63402377
>a work of fictional
FICTION, dammit. Stupid autocorrect.
>>
>>63402219
Basically. What's better, to have an angel be your soulfu with a succubus slave she might share (with the firm understanding among all involved that she's still the alpha girl) or the other way around?

>>63402228
But who dominates and who capitulates?

You only have one soul, and only one soulfu.
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>>63401281
Yes, they're your reward for being a good boy.
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>>63402377
>To show that the Sodomites didn't give a shit about the hospitality rules of the region which were pretty culturally important at that time
Don't disagree, but keep in mind you're implying that offering your daughters to be raped was considered a good thing in that culture. Not just a good thing, but something a virtuous man would do.
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>>63392196
There’s not a lot of tension to it, and that doesn’t sound like something angels would do. A more compelling story might run like “succubi threaten to damn mankind, a host of angels descends to liberate humanity from the vile influence of the hell-thots, wacky hijinks ensue.”
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>>63393514
On the other hand, statistics prove that the 'ecumenical niceness' espoused by atheists has consistently failed to generate the kind of social capital required to have a good society to live in
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>>63402553
He's right. That is pretty clear if you actually read the story.
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>>63402702
>That is pretty clear if you actually read the story
Elaborate
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>>63402725
>rather than give up his guests to be raped, Job offers his daughters instead

>Job is seen as the one good man in Sodom

seems fairly straightforward to me
he can't obviously simply turn away the sodomites because that wouldn't be hospitable, he has to offer them something to fuck.
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>>63402645
[citation needed]
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>>63392470
Sadly, this is wittier than present-day /tg/ gets on most days.

And look! No political vitriol!
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>>63392380
but kaiju-sized Angels are the best Angels.
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>>63402553
They’re just daughters. Sure you might get a dowry out of them, but I mean giving them away is sort of thing a man does. He’s gonna get a worse dowry, but it’s no worse than say he offered his guests a fancy painting or rug instead.

I think you’re making the mistake as viewing the daughters as ends in and of themselves, rather than another means of the patriarch.
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>>63402800
If we are to take the offer at face value, you're still faced with the problem that Lot's daughters have not known a man in verse 8, but are married (or literally 'taken') in verse 14. We can give multiple explanations

>The offer was not to be taken at face value
>Lot's daughters magically transformed from virgins to taken women
>There are married and unmarried daughters, but Lot only took the married ones with him
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>>63392261
>If you need to be bribed to be good you're doing it for selfish reasons, which isn't good at all.
Eh, it can make a good hook to get one's attention initially and as positive reinforcement while you're taught a lesson, though the one doing the bribing should strive to teach/guide the one being taught so they don't need the bribes at the end of things

>>63392361
50ish feet OR twice my height is perfect in my opinion, though even better would be one that could change her size at will
Though when it comes to huge waifus, >>63392420 has it right

>>63392646
>after that point it becomes impossible to perform oral sex on her from a standing or leaning position without a stepstool or ladder.
...Is it wrong I find the idea of her being just a tad bit too tall to do it without one kinda hot?

>after that point using the male's entire body as a living dildo becomes increasingly less satisfying.
Good tastes though
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>>63397489
>>63397712
>>63397666
>>63397747
>>63397749
None in any of these scenarios, at worst they go to the outer darkness which is only called as such because they will be forever unable to see God's light, at best they'll have some wiggle room and upon the time of final judgment God himself will hear their case to see if they deserve paradise or oblivion

>>63397718
Small, cute, angel equivalent of imps that sometimes show up to encourage people, stronger ones grow from "can ride on your shoulder" sized to human sized or more, maybe link their strength to the power of the one they're assigned to? Same with actual shoulder imps/succubi

>>63397927
Doesn't matter, his repentance is more important than justice, in fact trying to force justice upon one who's honestly repented in the eyes of God can itself be a sin if it's against His will and a grievous one at that
>>
>>63402645
The baffling aspect of this lies with the apparent need for supernatural nonsense (and jingoism? hopefully not) for the formation of that social capital. Atheists don’t meet up in special buildings every Sunday to talk about morality, contribute to charity, and engage in ritualistic mummery; what’s weird, and madddning, is that the former two seem to need the latter as a kind of scaffold. Hopefully this is only a temporary situation, and we’ll eventually be able to shed the supernatural baggage and develop similarly useful norms and institutions without the ridiculous bits.

However, it’s also worth pointing out that essentially secular governmental aid has done a lot to alleviate human suffering. Perhaps we just developed an alternative, non-religious system to accomplish humanitarian ends, in the form of the welfare state.
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>>63403065
Not him and don't care much about the rest of the post but
>Perhaps we just developed an alternative, non-religious system to accomplish humanitarian ends, in the form of the welfare state.
>welfare state
WEW LAD
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>>63402928
>>The offer was not to be taken at face value
>>Lot's daughters magically transformed from virgins to taken women
>>There are married and unmarried daughters, but Lot only took the married ones with him
alternatively between those verses someone took them
hello angels what were you up to
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>>63401219
Up until real recently most towns/cities actually had negative population growth from birth rates and had to stay afloat by near constant immigration from the surrounding countryside
On the other hand no babies is quite unlikely as >>63401343 points out

>>63402187
>But that's wrong. What I'm saying is "if we are to take Job's offer at face value, why did the mob refuse?".
Because they wanted angel ass

>>63402553
>Not just a good thing, but something a virtuous man would do.
Yes, protecting his guests is something a virtuous man and his family would do, even at cost to themselves

>>63403065
>we’ll eventually be able to shed the supernatural baggage and develop similarly useful norms and institutions without the ridiculous bits.
Exceedingly unlikely given how the human brain is hardwired for erring on the side of false positives for such matters, like we're talking species wide neurological surgery/reprogramming and/or widespread genetic engineering to eliminate it
>>
>>63403120
The flat earthers and conspiracy nuts are just the modern incarnation of people who believed in faeries back in the day.
>>
>>63402553
You're aware that women were generally considered more property than people in that time period, right? Who gives a shit if they're traumatized after being handed off to a rape mob? Just means you'll get less of a dowry when you sell them off give their hand in marriage to someone.
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>>63403065
>Perhaps we just developed an alternative, non-religious system to accomplish humanitarian ends, in the form of the welfare state.
Although it should be pointed out that the principles behind the welfare state are indeed very Christ-like.
>>
>>63392196
no
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>>63403333
Yet ironically the people who ride the Jesus train the hardest are the ones who go about telling people to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
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>>63403297
Spoken with the authority of someone who was there.
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>>63403368
>people who ride the Jesus train
American Christians tend to not be Christian.
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>>63403333
>Although it should be pointed out that the principles behind the welfare state are indeed very Christ-like.
Ah yes, it's my favorite Biblical verse.
>Render unto Caesar 40% of your income so that he may redivide it to the masses and liberate you from the need to do charity yourself
The Gospel according to Marx, 19:17.
>>
>>63403368
If we're talking about the US, I don't disagree with that. Right-wing American Christians are ignorant, hypocritical fuckwits.

>>63403428
I was thinking more of that stuff about "I was hungry, and you gave me food" and how helping the most unfortunate is serving God and all that. I don't know the exact quotes.
>>
>>63403402
It's almost like the Bible goes in-depth on what rights women did and didn't have at the time or something because it's as much parables and mythology as it is a list of laws.
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>>63403420
>Any Christian I disagree with isn't a "real" Christian
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>>63403402
Were you, personally, present for Jesus' resurrection? No? I guess you can fuck right off with your "Were you there?" bullshit, then.
>>
>>63403578
More like "any Christian who doesn't actually follow what Jesus taught and instead uses the religion as cover for their greed and hate isn't a real Christian".
>>
>>63392196
I'm only into it if she's doing the slutty church girl thing where she wants the dick but is in denial about it.

And if you make that part of a non-porn setting I'm lighting you on fire.
>>
I expected a thread full of lewds, yet there were only a few. I'm proud of you /tg/.

Also disappointed, though.
>>
>>63403847
Other angel thread has plenty, but on the subject of this thread, I'm all for a holy succubus style angel, my only question is, what should she have instead of level drain and/or charm?
>>
>>63403847
More lewds and comfyposting about loving angel waifus would be preferable to religious debate. We're a bit limited on what lewds we can post, though. Blue board and all.
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>>63403548
The other denominations really should start keeping house, and not just say ‘not our problem’.

Also if Jesus said to give all your money to charity, paying taxes to pay for food stamps really should be uncontriversial.
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>>63403333
You know what God did to those in the early Christian communal society that didn't pay into the system?
He killed them.
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>>63392280
I'm just waiting for it to turn out to be the pope dressed as a catholic schoolgirl.
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>>63403551
Protip : No rule or law in the old testament applies to Christians.
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>>63392196
Meh. Prefer the the idea of heaven sending down an army of thot slayers.
>>
>>63403990
I mean, yeah he did. What do you think the flood was?
>>63404046
Then what the fuck is the point of the Old Testament? Even as an Athiest most of the stuff I don’t like is all in the Old Testament. Regardless of if I think Jesus was the savior, he was decent guy.
>>
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>>63403897
Instead of level drain: Energy infusion. Used for healing and such, but they also use it on their lovers for enhanced and limitless lovemaking. Also used on anyone they sense is suffering because of sexual problems.

Instead of charm: Empathy. This allows them to sense the suffering of others so they know what kind of healing they need. It also establishes a psychic connection between the angel and the subject of their empathy. The subject becomes intuitively aware that the angel truly is on their side and only wants to help them, and will therefore be more receptive to the angel's assistance.
>>
>>63404147
To differentiate israel from other nations, to show them ways to appeasing god for their sins, to demonstrate their faith in a time when Jesus hadn't died for them. His death basically absolved them of the need to follow it.
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>>63404178
I don’t think that answers the question. It all has to do with Jews, but Christians aren’t jews.
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>>63404216
It was in response to one about christians. I'm not well versed in how the torah is supposed to apply, but the post he responded to was very much about christians.
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>>63404149
Since energy drain is portrayed as sucking a man's essence out (through his PENIS), energy infusion is portrayed as blowing semen back in.
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>>63404046
>Ignoring the part where Big J himself says he hasn't come to do away with the Old Law or the word of the prophet
Yeah, yeah, "The Old Testament doesn't count unless I need to shout verses from Leviticus at some gay homosexual faggots," and all that.
>>
>>63404147
Because the parts that condone genocide, slavery, and rape are inconvenient for the whole "The Bible is the source of all things Good and Moral" narrative.
>>
>>63404364
Even more reasons you’d be better off just discarding it.
>>
>>63404504
>God's mortal avatar says he's not getting rid of OT law
>Guess that's all the more reason to toss it out
Wat.
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>>63404147
>Then what the fuck is the point of the Old Testament?
Establishing the context for the New Testament you twit
>>
>>63404541
>people ignore the Old Testament unless they need to stick it to the gays
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>>63404255
Nah. If you must tie it to a bodily fluid, her breast milk would be more appropriate.
>>
>>63392261
>you're doing it for selfish reasons
You can stretch this for anything.
>Sacrificing yourself to save everyone else? You are just selfish, not wanting to live with the guilt of everyone's death.
>Giving money to the poor? You just want to be seen as a good person, so people will trust you more and you will have a happier life.
Good and evil is not a line, it's a horseshoe, the more you get to the extremes, the closer they are to one another.
>>
>>63404147
>Then what the fuck is the point of the Old Testament
It was to prepare nation for the arrival of the Messiah. Its moral (like faggotry being bad) applies, but actual laws doesnt and it is expressed explicitly in book of Acts. Even Jesus said that they werent perfect but was meant for certain period of time due to shitty conditions mankind has created
>He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Also,
>>63404541
>he's not getting rid of OT law
He said that he was fulfilling it, not ignoring it (for reference: like Mohamed declared everything disagreeing with him to be corrupted)
>>
>>63405507
>applying horseshoe theory to the concept of morality
Anon are you retarded?
>>63405520
Why is faggotry bad though? Like I get the whole ‘don’t kill, don’t steal’ thing I never got the whole ‘those shalt not have anal sex’ part.
>>
>>63405560
>applying horseshoe theory to the concept of morality
>implying it isn't true
Especially when it is something so subjective as morality.
>>
>>63405507
>Sacrificing yourself to save everyone else? You are just selfish, not wanting to live with the guilt of everyone's death.
If you are doing it to specifically avoid the guilt then you're being a shithead. If you're doing it because that's the only way to save people and you want to save people that's being good.

>Giving money to the poor? You just want to be seen as a good person, so people will trust you more and you will have a happier life.
You just described vanity and not a case of someone who just wants to positively influence the lives of others around them.

Again it's about goodness for the sake of goodness.
>>
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>>63405560
Well, for starters, Its unnatural. Its not called perversion out of nothing, it does pervert actual purpose of sex-procreation.
It is unhealthy and defiling your body. Human body is a temple of God. That is one of the reasons the relics is a thing.
And whats most important, on the long term, it has negative consequences in the society.
In my opinion, last point is more important, as it opens up a way to worse perversions.
>>
>>63405703
The fuck does that have to do with angels?
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>>63405677
It is impossible to separate both consequences of the act. Unless you are crazy in the head, you can't save everyone and live with the guilt of not saving everyone at the same time. There is always some way to create a consequence that mostly benefit yourself.
Also, if the reason you are doing something is what makes an action good or bad, then exterminating life on earth can be a good act, if your only desire is to stop further suffering.
You could even do an evil act, just so that you can be punished and serve as an example so other people won't make it.

>goodness for the sake of goodness
This reinforces the horseshoe theory, since the opposite is just evilness for the sake of evilness. And unless you can classify every possible action as completely good or evil with no inbetween, there will be many moments in which a person could be on either side of this horseshoe.
>>
>>63405703
Yeah but so does fast food. Don’t you guys think it’s be more productive to campaign against that instead of anal sex?
>>
>>63405592
Morality isn’t subjective you tard, if you think morality is subjective then you are better off being a nihilist since that’s more intellectually honest.

If morality exists then it’s obviously objective if you bother to think about it for five seconds. Slavery wasn’t a moral action for centuries until it suddenly wasn’t anymore.
>>
>>63405853
Actions don’t need to be wholly evil or wholly good. Where did you get that idea?
>>
>>63405866
No, fuck that, anon! It's my RIGHT to eat fast food! You don't have the right to tell me what to eat! I sure as hell have the right to tell you who to fuck, though!
>>
>>63405830
I dont see Angels here anyways. Only Valkyrs
>>
>>63405903
>until it suddenly
Then tell me. Is moral for a person with 20 years to drink alchohol? If you can't say a straight yes or no, then it is not objective.
And guess what, you can't, because it will depend from person to person, and people will hardly have a 100% black or white view on it.
>>
>>63405945
I'm not seeing any Valkyrs either.
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>>63405978
If you can't see the difference between drinking alcohol and fucking enslaving people, I'm not sure what to tell you.
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>>63405978
Actually I can. Just because I believe in an objective morality doesn’t mean you have to a. Have the correct answer to every question, you can be wrong on a particular issue, b. Ascribe a value to every action, drinking at 20 is a morally neutral action in my mind, no more good or evil than chewing gum. And those are some weird assumptions for you to even have.
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>>63405923
The idea is that is actions aren't wholly good or evil, so an action being good or evil will be subjective, which means that an angel succubi is completely plausible, as long as they see it as a good thing.
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>>63405998
There is a difference between them, of course. But that was never a question, and you didn't answer mine.

>>63406020
>Morality is objective!
>But I have no way of defining if morally ambiguous actions are either good or evil. So I can be wrong
So, you say that is completely neutral and no more good or evil than chewing gun. So at what age does it become evil(do you actually believe there is a specific age in which it becomes acceptable, or there is a specific line of though that allows it)? Or is it morally neutral to let a baby indulge in alchohol?
And if you answer that it is still neutral for alchohol, how about drugs?
If you really can't answer any of those, why do you believe so firmly that all actions are 100% good or evil(or 100% neutral)?
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>>63406020
>drinking is a morally neutral action
Now that is retarded. If there is a neutral action, there can be a nice action, which is halfway between good and neutral. Or a bad action, which is halfway from neutral and evil.
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>>63400960
That's the foundation of every religion, so yes.
>>63400928
That doesn't answer the question, since rape should still be much more illegal than anal.
>>63400998
I think it's kind of the other way around. The one thing dudes are really weird about is that we define our self-worth by our masculinity. Being open about your emotions isn't masculine, thus admitting you feel depressed or some other such makes you less of a man, and thus less as a person, so it's better to be depressed and not talk about it, than it is to talk about it, maybe get better, but be less of a man for it.

Consider that most insults to men are about masculinity- saying you are a 'pussy' implies you are feminine, and thus less masculine, to say you are 'beta' is to say that you are lesser than, specifically less masculine since 'alpha' is short for 'alpha male' than someone else, and so on. Even our insults towards women are usually regarding how them being women makes them lesser thans- slut, whore, bitch, and so on.

You learn to stop caring about hwo masculine you come across, you become a much healthier person for it.
>>63401032
Desert societies tend to have really weird hospitality rules.
>>63401148
What about the whole baptism thing- would that have been a factor yet?
>>63401219
I don't think you understand how population works anon.
>>63401467
Hey, what's more important- keeping the inegrety of the faith, or saving souls?
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>>63392196
Not into ERP so no.
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>>63405978
It's bad regardless of age if you get to the point of intoxication, the legal limit is only in place for human societies and has no bearing on spirituality
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>>63400960
>how they'd "tempt" people
By making them believe it is the right thing to do.
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>>63406270
>to the point of intoxication
You know that intoxication isn't a switch that is on or off, right? Even the smallest drop of alchohol increases the amount of intoxication.
It isn't like an RPG where you are either affected or not.
>>
The reason why missionary became the "correct" position to have sex in Judeo-Christian religions for thousands of years is because you can't have sex with an angel that way, because they would be laying on their wing joints in a way that would be uncomfortable and painful. this was done to discourage lewding cute angels and creating nephilim.

Discuss.
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>>63406270
>the legal limit
We are talking from a moral standpoint. And one of the reasons I brought it up is exactly it, do you believe that the legal standpoint affects the moral standpoint in any way?
If yes, then how can laws that are very subjective have an objective impact on moral? And following this line of thought, if 2 things that affects the moral standpoint contradicts each other, how can the result be completely objective?
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>>63406165
Something is only morally ambiguous if you can't tell if it's good or evil. If you know it's neither then it's not ambiguous. This is basic English.

I'd say it's okay for you to give a few sips of alcohol to someone who's older a toddler, like some European countries do since it's not a big deal. When they reach their teens, I say it's okay to let them drink in moderation, but that requires you to teach them to drink moderately (same with candy and fast-food really). Binge-drinking, or drinking to get drunk would only be permissible once the person has reached adulthood, which I would put at 18.

Drugs it depends on your definition- anything addictive than alcohol, which I'd say starts at tobacco, it is always immoral to try to give someone- though if someone of their own will with the right information wants tobacco, it's better to respect their decision as an adult, but once you start going up from their to stuff like Cocaine, you should try to make sure they don't get hooked, and we should always seek to reduce the amount of abusive substances being used in the world (that said, I'm of the opinion the war on drugs has been a disaster, and we should seek other ways of limiting drug use).

An action doesn't need to be 100% good or evil for there to be an objective morality. Why would you think that? An objective morality just means that if an action is evil, it is evil for all times, people, places, or cultures. The only caveat I'd include is that you have to be hyper-specific with rules. For instance, you can't say that it's evil to lie- it's evil to lie to hurt someone, but it is good to lie if it's for a surprise party.
>>63406221
Yes. What part do you have trouble understanding?
>>63406325
Depends on the individual. It's okay for you to drink more alcohol if your body is more resistant to it. Like how it's okay to eat more peanuts if you don't have a peanut allergy.
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>>63406325
You're correct and I suppose I should specify that I meant that drinking to the point where you would be "drunk" is where it can be considered sinful, as even Jesus drank wine
Obviously everyone's alcohol tolerance levels are different and they act differently while drunk so I'm not going to get into that, but I think most people know when they get to the point where they're tipsy
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>>63406345
I'm pretty sure it's more because ancient society (that wasn't Greek or Roman) was overly conservative due to a poor understanding of venereal disease (the people who have the most and weirdest sex die off quicker) thus they figured the sky gods didn't like sex and punished people who had it, and to reconcile this idea with the need for kids, said that the only form of sex that is acceptable is missionary position with your spouse, which gets further reinforced when those guys don't die of venereal disease.
>>63406391
Law and morality are related things, but not intrinsically so. Which law you follow depends on whether it's moral- we follow laws saying we'll jail you if you if you murder someone, but we do not follow laws saying that we'll jail you if you don't have sex with the President. Relatedly, law strives for at least an appearance of moral standing, since people will ignore an immoral laws, and there are good people in government enough that they try to enshrine good morals into law, with mixed results that become refined over time.
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>>63406391
Depends entirely on the law in question, I'd say
For a random, admittedly very extreme example, if murder was legal in some country, this would not make murder a good action
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>>63406244
>I think it's kind of the other way around. The one thing dudes are really weird about is that we define our self-worth by our masculinity. Being open about your emotions isn't masculine, thus admitting you feel depressed or some other such makes you less of a man, and thus less as a person, so it's better to be depressed and not talk about it, than it is to talk about it, maybe get better, but be less of a man for it.
And women play a big part in reinforcing that. They're absolutely merciless toward men who they perceive as weak.

>You learn to stop caring about hwo masculine you come across, you become a much healthier person for it.
As long as you're okay with being rejected by women and ostracized by everyone.
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>>63406518
Like I said, it impacts them too- a woman is more respected the more masculine she acts. And hey I like action chicks too, I just think we need to start delinking what's masculine and what's feminine.

Yeah. Women are already rejecting you, and you already get ostracized by everyone. You're posting on 4chan aren't you? At the very least you can find contentment and self-satisfaction in yourself, rather than constantly measuring yourself against an arbitrary yardstick that society determined that you are lesser than for not meeting.
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>>63392261

Read Dante's Divine Comedy, motherfucker.

He goes to heaven inspired by his love for Beatrice, but along the way he goes from pining for her, to pining for god.

It's a trope that's literally as old as Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy

Of course, he never fucks her or anything, it's medieval courtly love. But it's still love for a woman leading to love for better things.
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>>63406606
God, those couple of centuries the French collectively turned into a bunch of teenage girls.
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>>63406606
courtly love was about knights dicking ladies, dude. dante was just an incel
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>>63392196
No.
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>>63406633
No it was the opposite, what are you on about? Courtly love was all the rage because it was a 'pure' love untainted by lust, because it could never be consumated thanks to a difference in class.
>>
Holy shit, I guess most of you doesn't understand what objectively means.
>in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions, in a way that is not dependent on the mind for existence
So, if something can be considered good or evil depending on the person/situation/culture/laws/whatever, it is not objective, it is subjective to those standpoints mentioned.
This should answer: >>63406394
>>63406454>>63406467

>>63406393
Now you. You keep contradicting yourself. Either you believe that morality is infinitely discrete, or you don't actually think that morality is objective at all, and is just misundertanding it all.
Let's just assume you think that you think that morality is infinitely discrete. Then how, can an action like a 8yo kid drink a cup of wine be objective, as you said, for all times, people, places, or cultures? Remember that people includes kids who are very tolerant to alchohol, and some kids who are very allergic to wine.
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>>63406583
>Yeah. Women are already rejecting you, and you already get ostracized by everyone.
Wow. Didn't take long for you to start insulting me, did it? I'm not surprised, though. A lot of your statements make you sound like a feminist, and feminists are well known for this kind of shit.

>At the very least you can find contentment and self-satisfaction in yourself, rather than constantly measuring yourself against an arbitrary yardstick that society determined that you are lesser than for not meeting.
Yeah! The problem isn't that our society inflicts a great deal of suffering on men because of its rejection, the problem is that the men just need to learn to be happy being rejects! The men don't really want companionship and acceptance, they only *think* they want those things because they're trying to measure up to some arbitrary yardstick, one that was probably a result of the toxic masculinity oozing from every pore of this totalitarian patriarchy we live in!

How fucking convenient for your desire to minimize or dismiss men's issues. Not only do you get to dismiss them, you get to make it all their fault, so it's like they deserve it! Then you can even make fun of them for it! Win-win!
>>
>objective morality
No such thing. Morality is a societal meme. Morality is derived from the term 'mores', which if I remember right, means societal differences between right and wrong. Or 'taboo', like incest or pedophilia or homosexuality.

A great example of mores is the coming of age rite of that one tribe in Papua New Guinea that believe that young boys must ingest the semen of their elders daily from the age of 7 until they turn 17 to achieve adult male status and to properly mature and grow strong.

That's morally correct in most western nations because homosexuality and pedophilia are verboten, but to them, it is morally sound.
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>>63406690
I don't understand what you mean by discrete.

To answer the other question, like I said, it has to be hyper-specific. If the kid doesn't get drunk from a few sips then it's fine, if he does then it's not. Like see my previous example, it'd be really stupid to say that nobody can eat peanuts since some people die when they eat them. People who have peanut allergies can't eat them, people who don't can get on just fine. By 'persons' I mean that you don't get off the hook for holding a specific societal rank, or being famous or anything. Columbus doesn't get off the hook for native genocide just cause he's Columbus, or white, or whatever else have you.
>>63406715
If I'm insulting you, I'm also insulting myself aren't I? I agreed that learning to stop caring masculinity makes women reject you and get ostracized, and I myself also post on 4chan. So I can't be insulting you anymore than myself.

You can HAVE companionship and acceptance. You just need to learn to accept yourself first, and not make things worse for yourself by striving for an arbitrary bar. You can have companionship with other men, people on the internet, even female friends. You just don't want to make the be-all end-all a girlfriend. Some people get girlfriends, some do not, some people get them early in life, some people do not. Dating a model at 20 isn't a system that works for everyone.

Also you do realize I am also a dude yes? Also I don't see why me wanting women to have the right to vote has any bearing on the issue.
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>>63406672
Nope. I cite as proof the Lais of Marie de France, which are foundational to the medieval romance genre. A lot of them have trysts and adultery and sex in them. Guigemar, for instance, is all about a knight cucking a lord. Now, is all courtly love sexual? No, I was speaking hyperbolically before, but a lot of it was.
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>>63406774
If you are a nihilist I can respect you. I will say that I consider morality to be imaginary, but only in the same sense that government is imaginary. It's all just humans saying things, but they have real-life impacts upon the world regardless.
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>>63406854
>Everything is a social construct
>Nothing is real
Sakes alive do I hate you and your ilk.
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>>63406872
When did I say either of those things? I don't know if you are all the same guy, but people are constantly making weird assumptions about world-views that have nothing to do with those world-views.
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>>63406831
>You can HAVE companionship and acceptance. You just need to learn to accept yourself first, and not make things worse for yourself by striving for an arbitrary bar. You can have companionship with other men, people on the internet, even female friends. You just don't want to make the be-all end-all a girlfriend. Some people get girlfriends, some do not, some people get them early in life, some people do not. Dating a model at 20 isn't a system that works for everyone.
This is exactly the kind of mentality that the system is set up to encourage. Don't complain about the system or try to change it, just accept it.

>Also you do realize I am also a dude yes?
Yes. That doesn't preclude you being a feminist.

>Also I don't see why me wanting women to have the right to vote has any bearing on the issue.
Feminism hasn't been about equality for decades.
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>>63406950
I mean feel free to change the system. What changes would you make? Mine would be 'dudes need to stop being weird about how masculine they are'.

>Feminism hasn't been about equality for decades
According to (you)
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>>63392539
>Showing off their asses like that
Both need a wedgie and a spanking.
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>>63397343
Evangelicals are not big on dogma. Their religion is specifically built on thinking that actually getting education on the bible makes you a Papist and thus evil.
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>>63407062
>YFW the demon whines about it, clearly not enjoying it
>YFW the angel is really, REALLY into it
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>>63407087
>tfw either one likes one, but not the other
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>>63406854
>If you are a nihilist I can respect you.
I'm not, but I can see why you'd say that based off the single post I've made in this thread.
> I consider morality to be imaginary
Technically you're not wrong, but you're actually pretty wrong.
Morality (in terms of mores) is legislated. Meaning there are rules and laws in place that say if you break these tabu, you are punished. Like murder. So it's actually not "imaginary", although people did think up these rules.
>but only in the same sense that government is imaginary
that just makes no fucking sense, except under the idea that "society" is an idea of 'like-minded' individuals coming together under a common goal for survival and propagation of common ideals.
>It's all just humans saying things
...
>but they have real-life impacts upon the world regardless.
I think you're a fedora tipper at this point.
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>>63392305
>>63392196
No no, gentlemen! I have a proposition...

Heaven sends you a more improved “guardian angel”, but manifest in the physical realm. She is born at the same time as you, but from another family. She will grow up alongside you, upholding idealistic virtues and beliefs. Her mere presence will make you more likely to do good as she does. She is there as a reminder of what you could be. At first, the relationship you have may be of “selfish intent”, but her ways will slowly influence you into a better person, instead of a sex crazed maniac.

Never said you won’t have sex though. Avoid hedonism, and you’ve got smooth sailing.
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>>63397849
The only good Protestant is an Anglican/Episcopalians, who are really just Catholics who don't like the Pope anyways.
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>>63407082
That's dogma. It's just their own dogma.

It's also by the way, why christian propaganda films alwasy end up sucking. Movies need stories, but the makers of christian films don't want to make a story, they want to tell a sermon. Even as an Athiest seeing people struggle to reconcile faith is fascinating to watch (to name two examples, Daredevil, and Joshua Graham).
>>
isn't anything "not catholic" technically considered protestant?
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>>63407113
>Angel childhood friend
I'm game.
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>>63407110
Law and morality is not intrinsically linked, which is why immoral laws exist. And laws that are moral aren't moral from some moral imperative, but out of practicality- people ignore laws they think are unjust thus passing them is impractical. Like there's a big degree in difference between laws concerning murder, and laws concerning anal sex.

Government is imaginary, since it only operates on the whole 'consent of the governed' the moment the governed cease consenting, it all falls apart. There is no force in the universe that compels government, it's just people agreeing on basic things- I need roads, roads need money, governments build roads, governments need taxes. If they stop agreeing the whole thing collapses. It only exists because we say it exists. Now like I said, it's still has real-world influence and that's important. The other example I use is language. The word 'hello' is a meaningless series of noises intrinsically speaking. We assign it the meaning of a greeting, but we could just as easily not as in most languages that aren't English. Hello only has meaning because we say it has meaning.

>fedora tipper
I don't know why you'd think that.
>>63407113
Okay, that, but with a little sister.
>>63407149
No. You got the Orthodox, the Coptic, and also earlier christian sects like say the Donatists, then you have the Mormons obviously, as well as the Jews and the Muslims, and their offshoots, and I'm of the opinion that Evangelicals should be their own branch.
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>>63407099
But which would like which more?
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>no sultry succubus gf to guide me to the path of degeneracy
>no uptight angel gf to guide to the path of degeneracy
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>>63407645
>Angel girl is all about discipline, so she likes to be spanked. She hates mischief, so keep your hands off her panties.
>Demon girl is all about teasing and pulling pranks, so pulling her panties gets a good reaction out of her. She's undisciplined, so spanking her will just make her cry.
>>
>>63407242
>Law and morality is not intrinsically linked,
Yes it is. It totally is. Morality is a value, and a value is legislated through definition. For example, killing is wrong, but it's perfectly fine to kill in the name of your god, in defense of your country, or in defense of your own life.
>which is why immoral laws exist.
No one is 100% wholly "moral", since morality is determined by the group, not by the individual, and morals evolve by necessity as the group evolves.
For example, take this speech:
>Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.
Back then, slavery was considered morally right. Morals evolved and slavery is no longer considered moral, and thus illegal.
>laws that are moral aren't moral from some moral imperative
moral imperative comes from society, and not an individual. An individual can question the morality of a law, a moral can change, and laws can change. All of these things are inherently mutable.
>Like there's a big degree in difference between laws concerning murder, and laws concerning anal sex.
Technically both laws are moral laws, since they place survival of the group ahead of the individual. A society cannot survive if murder is allowed. Likewise, technically speaking, a society can't survive if you're doing it in the butt. You can't reproduce from there.
>Government is imaginary,
Oh boy.
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>>63407242
>I don't know why you'd think that.
You've got this whole "in this moment I am euphoric" mien in your posts.
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>>63392967
It says a lot about you if you can't be good without coercing you to be good
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>>63408580
It says a lot about you if you have to deny coercion not to anger your god
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>>63400998
>of male sexuality and male emotions.
If someone is a real man, they wouldn't have emotions. But you wouldn't know about that, would you little beta cuck?
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>>63398251
Come on my dude, blue board.
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>>63398527
Sounds good to me, I like it.

>>63401620
Pic related
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>>63392240
That's just dumb and shallow fanservice. Angels are beings of absolute order, they have no inherent sexuality. Rather, them waifu angels are created with a set of directives; Direct anon to do Good, become anon's waifu and quench his carnal/emotional lust, Direct anon to become his very best.
All the more delicious when these directives inevitably clash with one another and her desire/NEED to complement anon causes her to fall and rebel against Heaven; putting anon's interests ahead of the utilitarian good, abetting anon's descent into depravity in order for anon to become the most exquisite aesthete pervert, committing sins in Anon's name rather than Good Deeds in the name of God. Tag it with Corruption, now THAT's my kind of fanservice.t
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>>63408436
Laws are made by men, but men are not intrinsically moral, nor do they uniformly strive to be moral.

But I've already established that morality isn't subjective. Morality does not change over time, not does it vary from country to country, it is objective- murder is just as evil if you are a serial killer as you are burning a witch, or lynching a black man.

You know, I look at that and come with the takeaway that the confederates were all evil bastards. Not that they were in the right. I don't know how you managed to walk away with that impression.

Moral imperitives come from logic (and no logic is not immoral, if you are doing something bad, then your logic is bad) we do not murder people, because we do not want to live in a society that murders people. I mean at least SKIM through Kant before pretending you understand moral theory.

Except our society does let you do it in the butt, and we are surviving just fine. You DO understand you can do anal AND vaginal right?
>>63408512
*shrugs* maybe it's just because philosophy is rather counterintuitive to how people think.
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>>63392967
Please tell me you're citing a Chick Tract ironically and not ACTUALLY arguing that people think "IF THERE'S NO GOD, WHAT'S TO STOP ME FROM BECOMING ONE?!"
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>>63392967
>If you aren't religious, you can't be a good person because the only way to be good is to fear the repercussions of being bad.
Objectively false.
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>>63409023
How did you read the entire post except the very first sentence?
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>>63409023
I think anon just had word salad- I'm pretty sure he meant- queue the one kid whose good without god.
>>63409044
He's saying that's what people think, which is true- people have studies on what (at least americans) think is more or less trustworthy, athiests rank at the very bottom, less than muslims.
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>>63408978
>Laws are made by men, but men are not intrinsically moral, nor do they uniformly strive to be moral.
Which directly and explicitly points out the logical conclusion: morals are subjective and only relevant to the society or group.
>But I've already established that morality isn't subjective.
Yes it is. It totally is. I have provided two examples of how morality and law are both subjective to the society that creates it, namely the Papua New Guinea tribe and the confederate slavery ideology. Your inability to accept this is not my responsibility.
>But I've already established that morality isn't subjective
You really haven't. Because it is subjective.
>Morality does not change over time, not does it vary from country to country
Here's another example that proves it's subjective: Most western countries believe that pedophilia is morally and legally wrong. However, in Saudi Arabia, it is perfectly fine to marry a 9 year old girl and consummate that marriage. This is a clear and explicit example of the subjectivity of morality and how it varies from country to country.
>murder is just as evil if you are a serial killer as you are burning a witch, or lynching a black man.
except that burning a witch is still perfectly legal in Tanzania, and lynching is still technically legal in 47 of the 50 united states. Morals = subjective.
>Moral imperitives come from logic
wrong. Moral imperative comes from society. Whether from religious or secular governance. Morality is derived from the group agreement that "X is wrong and should be punished by Y." and because it is not empirical, is not objective, can vary from city to city, from state to state, and from country to country. What is morally wrong in one place is allowed/ even encouraged in others, thus detailing its subjective nature.
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>>63409343
How the heck do you reach that solution? Are you trying to make the argument that since men don't have uniform laws then morality isn't objective? Because that is a stupid argument.

Yeah. The Saudi's are fucking wrong. What part of that aren't you understanding?
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>>63392361
got to big enough to fit inside her/be swallowed at the min
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>>63409405
>Are you trying to make the argument that since men don't have uniform laws then morality isn't objective?
Look guys, he's finally catching on!
>Yeah. The Saudi's are fucking wrong. What part of that aren't you understanding?
They think they're right, both morally and legally. the fact that you cajn't honor their sovereignty is irrelevant.
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>>63409674
Oh my god your an idiot.

Laws not being universal does not mean that morality is subjective. It means that mankinds understanding of morality varies, due to differing ammounts of information, and how many assholes are in charge.

The people who argued for slavery weren't being moral people. They were being assholes who sought to justify them being assholes. And that's the problem with an subjective world view, becuase it allows you to say things like 'supporting pedophilia, and fighting pedophilia are both moral' at which point the idea of morality becomes meaningless. Like I said earlier, you're better off being a nihilist, since that's more intellectually honest.

Try this little brain teaser- I am of a culture that believes in an objective morality- specifically I use a combination of Emmanual Kant's philosophy, Rawls veil of ignorance, and ethical hedonism, and this is because I come from a western nation that is built upon rational enlightenment ideas.

This means that if a culture endorses pedophilia, murder, or slavery, then I will oppose it. Because that is my morality, am I right to impose my morals on others? Because either you believe I can, in which case there's no point in you trying to call everything even, or I cannot, meaning that that you do not believe I am entitled to my morality.
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>>63408234
>It not being the opposite
>Angel girl not hating being spanked because wrongdoing isn't in her nature and she doesn't like being punished, but loves getting panty-flossed because it lets someone pleasure her without technically defiling her by touching her.
>Demon girl not being naughty specifically so that she can be spanked, but disliking having her panties pulled because she doesn't like being on the receiving end of mischief.
>>
Why can't my half celestial be half elven?
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>>63408882
Who would you want to win?
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>>63398527
>>63407171
>>63407113
So what if we added this to the set up and made the angel a child hood friend and succubus a girl you just met as the challenge started?

Would this influence your choice any?
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>>63409784
>Oh my god your an idiot.
*you're
>Laws not being universal does not mean that morality is subjective.
That's literally what it means.
That's exactly what it means.
>It means that mankinds understanding of morality varies, due to differing ammounts of information, and how many assholes are in charge.
Cool opinion.
>The people who argued for slavery weren't being moral people.
They legitimately believed they were moral people. The fact that our sensibilities have evolved and our morals have changed to the point where we view slavery as unconscionable is functionally irrelevant- we were not there back then, raised with their sensibilities and moralities.
>They were being assholes who sought to justify them being assholes.
Might could be.
>And that's the problem with an subjective world view, becuase it allows you to say things like 'supporting pedophilia, and fighting pedophilia are both moral' at which point the idea of morality becomes meaningless.
No, it means what I['ve been saying all along: morality is subjective.
>I come from a western nation that is built upon rational enlightenment ideas.
Yes, yes, yes. In this moment, you are euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing but because you are enlightened by your intelligence.
>This means that if a culture endorses pedophilia, murder, or slavery, then I will oppose it.
Because their morals make it right, and your morals make it wrong. This is the textbook definition of subjective.
>Because that is my morality, am I right to impose my morals on others?
You probably will.
>Because either you believe I can, in which case there's no point in you trying to call everything even,
You could. And I'm not calling everything 'even', I am telling you that morality subjective.
>or I cannot, meaning that that you do not believe I am entitled to my morality.
You could. And only snowflakes are entitled to anything. And morality is subjective.
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>>63405945
Well, he's not wrong. Lamia's are supposed to be part lion, aren't they? At least in D&D they are.
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>>63410144
Orrigonaly, no. They are part snake. Using D&D as a source is never a good idea, though in this case it isn't D&D's fault. There are some more recent versions (1600s) that make lamia something 4 legged and not snake-like.
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>>63397442
You claim that but all religions descended from the heretics Luther and Calvin claim that those who do not explicitly profess their faith in their specific denominational version of God is damned to Hell. That is not a gift freely given. That is threat.

Grace is gift provided to us freely and performing good works is how we accept it. It is the "I love you too" to God's unconditional paternal love.

Also you are only technically correct in calling me Papist, though I imagine you think I'm Catholic. I am actually a Copt, but religiously and ethnically.
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>>63397489
Neither. In both cases they have already explicitly accepted God's love which is the only requirement to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In the Thief's case he most likely has some Purgatory time to work through, but he has admitted that he did wrong and expressed a sincere desire to make up for it.

The Atheist has accepted God's love by helping God's children. His failure guess the correct cosmology is inconsequential.
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>>63398155
That depends on the time period and and society, because as much as we'd like to pretend otherwise the Church is not timeless and changes fairly frequently. There were times when buggery was considered perfectly acceptable but only with ones wife and other times when it wasn't.
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>>63406831
>if the kid doesn't get drunk
As I said, the world isn't black or white, when you drink, you get progressively intoxicated with alchohol. There are people who consider getting red as drunk, and some only consider drunk when you start getting loud, or don't remember what happened last night.
>infinitely discrete
It means that you don't believe that there is objectively good or objectively evil only, but objectively good for "white men, who aren't allergic to peanuts, live in florida, has a dog, knows a person named carl, has a tolerance to alchohol of 0.18, doesn't have a driver's license, believes in taoism, has 2 childern, but is not married, lives in a blue house, and was born in 1984", and basically every other possible very specific conditions. At that point, you can't really call it objective, since the idea of objectively is that an action is good or evil independetly of who, when, or why a person is doing it.
>by people I mean
The idea of objectively is that there is no condition, age, social status, diseases, color, or whatever nothing of that matters, if there is an action that is good for some, but evil for others, then it is siubjective to who is doing it.
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>>63406393
>drinking is morally dependent of the age of the person drinking
Then it is morally subjective to the age of the person, and therefore not objectively anymore.



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