God tier>immediately after apoc>100+ years post-apocHigh tier>50+ years post-apocMid tier>20-30 years post-apocShit tier>3-10 years post-apoc
>>63388355>Riddley Walker>100+ years post>absolute God tierthis checks out
>>63388355Meh, depends on the type of apocalypse
>>63388369More games could benefit from being like Nausicaa.
>>63388325A Chant for Leibowitz?
>>63388325>post-post-post-apocalypticThe warnings of the past were unheeded. In less than a moment, the new civilization we had worked so hard to build vanished, and mankind descended into barbarism once again.
>>63388355Elder God tier>cyclical history, the apoclypse happened and will happen many times
>>63388573I mean technically western civilization already has at least two collapses and one near-collapses behind it
>>63388592>US and USSR on the same side against Israel and RhodesiaWhat was the political boondoggle that let to that mess?
>>63388592What is your purpose here, Arisen?
>>63388696not a history buff and have no idea when this happened, but I'm gonna throw a guess out and say it was when Israel was fucking hardcore with US's funds and Nuclear stockpile, oh and assassinating their people, that also happened
>>63388355Although, I'd add:>During ApocInto God of at least High tier, shit like 1978 Dawn of the Dead had fucking kino depictions of it, a weirder although still great once you learn to appreciate it, Southland Tales has a pretty good Right Before -> To During Apoc.
Man was given all creation but one, and traded it all for a taste.Man ruled from the skies and was cast down, his words and unity shattered by pride.Man ruled from seven hills, but was torn apart from within and without by sloth and barbarism.Man ruled across the seas beneath an unsetting sun, but was broken by ideals and commerce.Man rules from afar with money and cultural influence, and thinks his empire immortal at last.But the age old words are always true eventually.This too shall pass.
>>63388696Welcome to the shitshow that was Biafra.
>>63388696The Biafran crisis. Essentially a chunk of resource rich Nigeria wanted to secede from the country but powerful lobby groups in essentially every major nation wanted to prevent it..
>>63388711>>63388696Not show there but Israel supported both sides. They sided with Baifra providing humaninatrian support. But they also sold weapons to the Nigerians.
>>63388767With jews you lose.
>>63388592I raise you a War of the League of Cambrai.
>>63388355I think you mean God Tier:>the micro instance the apoc happens
>slow buildup to the apocalypse not being the bestThe Day After captured this perfectly.
>>63389049How's that for a cold open?
>>63388592>putting the 2004 Battlestar Galactica in elder god tier
>>63389069It captured it so perfectly it actually contributed to probably preventing it actually fucking happening. That movie was directly credited with helping inspire the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty, and after the Cold War ended and archives were opened we only then appreciated how fucking terrified the Soviets really were of intermediate-range missiles stationed in Germany. The Pershing-II could actually hit Moscow faster than launch warning could reach Moscow and the idea that a nuclear war could reach their capital before any warning seriously influenced their strategic thinking throughout the 80s until that treaty.
>>63388611The Black Death was basically a long, slow apocalypse. 33-50% of Europe's population fucking died. The fall of the Roman Empire was more or less a total cultural collapse in Europe, even if the "dark ages" myth is just that, a myth.
>>63389010>The original main combatants of the war team up and win overall conflict>Truly friendship is the greatest weapon>Must have been a hell of a montage
I needed this thread I just finished the Castlevania animated series and cried like a bitch
>>63390672is that nier
>Listen, are we helpless? Are we doomed to do it again and again and again? Have we no choice but to play the Phoenix in an unending sequence of rise and fall? Assyria, Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Carthage, Rome, the Empires of Charlemagne and the Turk: Ground to dust and plowed with salt. Spain, France, Britain, America—burned into the oblivion of the centuries. And again and again and again. Are we doomed to it, Lord, chained to the pendulum of our own mad clockwork, helpless to halt its swing? This time, it will swing us clean to oblivion.>when history seems cyclical and infinite, but your life, and the chance of its existence sure as hell isn't
>>63388355What about Gamma World/Caves of Qud style 'centuries later but the nature of the apocalypse/the events that followed resulted in a landscape that looks completely alien and may have suffered less drastic catastrophes in the intervening years"
>>63392025Okay but we know those histories (while they didn't) so we're probably not doomed to repeat those histories.We'll have our own downfalls unique to our time as long as you're not trying to be reductive about it.
>you will never travel the world after the fall of society with a qt by your side>you will never wander along rusted train tracks, roads full of burned-out car frames, cities of crumbling buildings>you will never have to live by your wits and survive, with one other person you can trust>you will never be sitting with her in the ruins of a building, just enough overhang to shelter you from the rain>you will never be dressed in warm wool jackets and have her leaning against you>you will never sleep next to her, sharing the same sleeping back because you only have one>you will never lie awake with her at night, on top of a roof, looking up at the stars and talking about your lives before you met each other>you will never keep watch while she sleeps, looking at her soft calm face and watching her belly rise and fall through her coat as she breathes>you will never fight off terrifying /x/-esque monsters with her by your side, watching your back>you will never complete your journey and realize you are in love with her, and she loves you back
>>63390181>That movie was directly credited with helping inspire the intermediate range nuclear forces treaty,Guess which treaty Russia just violated.
>>63393552Russia today is even less capable than the USSR was in the 80s. And the USSR in the 80s couldn't sustain an invasion on their own border.
>>63388355Best tier: apocalypse happening right nowThe first Darksiders videogame had that going for it
The comfiest setting.
>The campaign takes place during the apocalypse
>>63388696israel always sides against the arabs no matter what
>>63392260That's just fantasy you dope. It gives an excuse to why the world is like this, but the idea behind an apocalypse world is that you're scrounging for supplies in the bodies of titans.
Apocalyptic -> Late Bronze Age collapsePost-apocalyptic -> Greek Dark AgesPost post-apocalyptic -> Archaic Greece
>>63388325>post post-apocolypticSo fallout?
>>63388325Why does nobody ever have a pre-apocalyptic setting?Like, the world is going to end in 5 years exactly and everyone knows it?
>>63392653That's the thing. Even if you have past history to refer to, it is always a matter o time before the current equilibrium destabilize and eventually brek down. The rise and fall of civilizational order and chaos is ongoing, but each time the pendulum on the mad clockwork seems to swing a little further.
>>63388719Eden, Babel, Rome, Britain, USA?
>>63395577I can't tell if you're angry or happy about this.
>>63388325>pre post-apocalypticPreposterous!AKA IRL
>>63396458Kind of what Worm became halfway through.But this has so much more potential, PCs trying to gather as much ressources as possible and securing them because they know the end is inevitable, making plans for society post collapse, depending on the type of apocalypse trying to minimize damage, getting to high land before a flood, building bunkers before the nukes, learning how to be proper servants before the aliens come to enslave everyone.Could be pretty fun.
>>63396458>>63400060WORM: the world is going to end in less than five years but your friends get mad at you when you try to bring it up.
>>63388355Elder God tier:>1000+ years after the apocalypse
>>63396102>falloutThat's like the archetype of just post-apocalypse though.
>>63393552We withdrew our missiles, inevitably we will put our US ones back
>>63400133Nobody took it serious because people didn't know what exactly would happen, only that a lot of people would supposedly die. It also didn't help that once the official estimated time passed and nothing happened that even believers started doubting.Only made the apocalypse hit even harder when it actually happenedI really liked the concept of the worlds strongest hero going insane and nobody being able to stop him due to being outclassed.Irredeemable was a comic with a similar premise (though their individual reasons for going insane were widly different) and I wanted to use both as inspirations for a game.I thought about how to turn it into a campaign but kind of have doubts on how to sell it to a group since it's supposed to be a superhero story but is structurally closer to a detective thriller. Both stories can be boilt down to the heroes trying to unite despite infighting and researching the background of the great hero that is destroying the world to find potential angles of attack before finding the one weakspot that makes them win.Basically I have to convince people that it's fun to play a bunch of people in tights with capes doing detective work with barely any chances to actually use their powers because the one enemy to use them on is basically unbeatable in straight up combat.
>>63396458Try The Last Policeman.
>>63400633Actually, I'm specifically referring to that early scene where Taylor and whatshername/Tattletale are driving, and Taylor starts talking about the Endbringers.
>>63392713The only way such a journey ends is in death, young or old.
Are there any examples of post post apocalypse not being optimistic? Regular post apocalypse is pessimistic because life is hard and everything sucks now while post post apocalypse like Adventure Time is often sugary sweet because the worst is over and things only can heal from here (though it being a kids show is probably part of it).But what about stories where the apocalypse did so much damage that even long after the world was rebuild you can still feel the effects.Some things in the world just got so irreparably broken that they will never be as good again.The atmosphere got so fucked by the nukes that it will forever be a couple of degrees hotter leading to mass extinctions of species that can never ever return.The sentient mother earth got so angry at her creatures destroying nature and waging war that she will never forgive them, nature becomes more sparse and harder to survive in and are animals more vicious against the races that started the war.Some genius got the idea to weaponize the moon so every other nation collectively decided that the best course of action is to destroy the moon. The night sky is now forever darker, something beautiful destroyed by mankinds arrogance, never to return.>>63400685People at that point didn't know yet how bad things for humanity were, they knew shit was somewhat fucked but still had hope.Lisa got mad because there was literally no reason for bringing up the Endbringers unless you want to bring down everyones mood. It's like randomly bringing up the holocaust to a survivor, of course they're not going to like it, especially if you do it like Taylor and make a completely random comparison like "hey it's raining, reminds me of those ash rains when they were burning the jews".Not to mention it was right before a heist, they needed to be at the top of their game.
>>63401045Well that's depressing.
>>63388325I love post-post apocalypses. It's all the greatness of fantasy with all the greatness of Scifi. Adventure time is my favorite example. It's after an apocolypse, but it's been so long that they don't even think about the "old world"
>>63401442Adventure Time should've ended at the Season Two finale. Fight me.
>>63402264It never should have been made, fight me.>>63402249I agree with you. The old world should be a distant memory, similar to the stereotypical Dungeons and Dragons setting built in the ruins of an ancient empire about which little is known.
>>63388767Never let a good crisis go to waste!
>>63388592This shit is way worse than the Nigerian Civil War
>>63388325What are some games/settings like that?
>>63404153Fallout New Vegas
>>63404174>>63404177Erm, besides Fallout
>>63401045We all come to the same destination eventually, no matter the path. But the journey is all the difference. It is the context that give our shared endings meaning.All days will end. All beauty fade. All love lost.But we live and breathe each moment a lifetime of purpose.
>>63404230There are a huge number, although I can't think of any that the apocalypse was somewhat recent. Pretty much any setting with a 'forerunner' or 'precursor' falls under it.
>>63400426Wasn't always. Fallout 2 was about tribal societies meeting advanced, reconstructing societies. Fallout New Vegas was about the new power dynamic and how little it had changed from the old dynamic.
>>63404230Endless Legend is kind of like that: a bunch of Civs find out they're the result of a race that died out millenia ago.
>>63404174>>63404177Fallout is post post-apocalyptic only in the timescale. Yet the world seems like the war happened barely few years ago. It's hard to imagine 200+ years have passed.
>>63395448Well, the opening of it.
>>63388355>Lisa>Shit tierImpeccably incorrect.
>>63404394Only in the ones made by Bethesda. It's extremely clear that it was a long ago memory in the properly made ones.
>>63396458MY BRAIN HURTS A LOT
>>63404676That is sort of true, though even FO1 and 2 has plenty of old stuff that was still perfectly operational despite having been lying around for generations. I do enjoy that plenty of places have newly built structures, walls, etc. that aren't just piles of crap slapped together.
>>63395448>I guess we're living through some kind of Apocalypse NowJesus Christ, really Coppola?
>>63404816That never happened
>>63404153Nausicaa and the Valley of the WindMega Man Zero, ZX and LegendsBlameMan After Man
>>63388325Y'all realize that after the post-apocalypse is still post-apocalyptic right?
>>63390255>even if the "dark ages" myth is just that, a myth.No it fucking wasn’t retard
>>63389010>Merchant City strikes again
>>63388325>>63388355so just another setting with modern day ruins littered across the land like inAT, horizon & new vegas?
>>63404120>vietnam war but with germans>the eastern front but with french and british>four-way american civil war, with canada and mexico as a bonus>whatever the fuck happens to mittelafrika>australia almost becoming relevant>chinese slaughtering each other for chinese reasons>all at the same timeChecks out.
>>63406085The term "Dark Ages" referred originally not to being ignorant, backwards, or shitty, but dark in the same sense the dark side of the moon is dark - we didn't have many records from the era and thus didn't know much about it. However, that's not even true anymore and hasn't been since the late 19th century or so, and the term got more and more popularly associated with it being a shitty time to live. Which it also wasn't, relatively speaking - though the scope of politics got a lot smaller, daily life for 90% of people didn't honestly change all that much. Only a few pretty specific technologies were lost, such as concrete.The popular belief that the collapse of the WRE led to a long and nebulous "dark ages" of strife, turmoil, and loss of all that made civilization civilized as Europe collapsed into barbarism is a Renaissance-era myth people made up to puff themselves up. It's not that late antiquity and the early middle ages didn't have strife or turmoil, it's that the specific term "dark ages" is absolutely loaded with connotation and ideas that are bullshit. It's why modern historians usually avoid using the term entirely.
>>63388592>history is cyclical because the apocalypse is always triggered by the same person in order to prevent an even bigger apocalypse.
>>63402264I think it kept trying to stretch out the ideas because it thought it would go on forever, and then when it got the axe it tried to slam too many things togeather at once. I personally think that after the time the Lich stole Billy's body it should have ended. Not because I didn't like the rest, but because it was a fundamentally different show. I think back to what >>63403192 said. Adventure time took heavy inspirations from DnD, and the idea that their world exists on the ashes of a far gone modern world was always THERE but it was never the FOCUS. After Pendleton Ward left the show it got shitty.
>>63400685Spoilers for Ward but I like how Tattletale has managed to keep the fact that the "End"bringers have in reality ALWAYS been holding back and aside from MAYBE Valkyrie, Eidolon, or Kepri no one could do fucking jackshit if they ever actually tried to live up to their names, a secret for like two years, that is a remarkable amount of restraint coming from her. (Or how the entire cape community basically unpersoned Taylor because mentioning her by name gives every parahuman within earshot fucking Nam-flash backs.)
When does a post-apocalypse stop being that and become something else?
>>63407461It was a time of endemic war, often waged for arbitrary or simply insane reasons. It was a time of few rights, little inquiry and the catholic church serving as an ersatz replacement for roman beurocracy. It was a time when even the veneer of universal rights preserved by rome was washed away and everyone lived under a cut and dry, brutally maintained, caste system. It was a shitty time to live even compared to what came before. Sick armour though.
>>63407989It's all subjective. You could say we live in a post-apocalypse, after the black plague.
>>63408101that armour was mostly from the renaissance
>>63408241gothic was borderline
>>63408241But yeah, for a lot of that period european armor hadn't reached it's peak and was pretty outclassed by other cultures plate equivalent. They also basically never figured out how to make good metal faces.
>>63408241But articulated sallets are possibly my favorite objects to exist in the world.
>>63408101>It was a time of endemic war, often waged for arbitrary or simply insane reasons.So was the Roman Empire.
>>63408372Mostly they were defensive wars in which they aquired territory and only near the end of the republic did they realize they could just conquer shit. Even then they had actual plans for what they would do if they one. European knights were close to actually retarded if you read what they think about war. A lot of them were really explicit that they just thought it was awesome.
>>63408422Rome was almost continuously at war for nearly 800 years. The only time they stopped engaging in foreign wars (and sometimes not even then) was to engage in civil wars instead.Look, nobody's denying that the scale of politics, trade, and culture diminished in western Europe after the fall of the WRE. But the "dark ages" idea is heavily played up and distorted in popular conception, to the point where the term itself is too loaded to be used seriously by historians. For over 90% of western Europeans, life honestly did not change all that much during the Dark Ages from what came before.
>>63408499It was the difference between state waged, considered, war and a moron french knight deciding to burn down his neighbors peasants and rape the fields.
>>63408499I agree it shouldn't be taken as a serious historical term but the common appreciation of the period isn't too far off. It's like the three stages of learning about the civil war.You're taught the civil war is about slavery. You look into it a litte, "I've been duped!" It was states rights the whole time. You look into it a little bit more. "nevermind it was slavery".
>>63408577I'm pretty sure Sun Tzu says there's no difference.
>>63388325I love me some post-post-apocalyptic. I really wish it was a more popular setting. Fortunately, there seems to be more media that takes place in the post-post-apocalypse (Horizon Zero Daw, Adventure time, etc.), but there still could be more.
>>63388562It's A Canticle For Leibowitz you illiterate philistine
>>63388573Fun fact: the setting of Vampire Hunter D is post-post-post apocalypse.
>>63388377Impeccable taste. Walker and A Canticle for Liebowitz are the best post-apoc.
>>63396458The first Mad Max is kind of like that.
>>63389010What the fuck happened? Did Venice just forget who's side they were on for a few years?
>>63407989When the setting ceases to use Post-Apoc as it's setting or backdrop.It's a soft, fuzzy line pretty much dictated by whom ever wrote the story.
>>63408422>Mostly they were defensive warsYeah, and Iraq had weapons of mass destruction...
>>63388325>>63388592Ran a faux late victorian early modern setting that was post apoc earth where BRICS and Nato had a bit of a nuke war and humanity had built back from nothing, great fun until the players found the murdercyborgs from the past future in the deep dessert that was once Russia. I mean bolt-action rifles and sheet-metal helmets are fine and dandy but they don't really compare to metal-graphene people wielding assault-rifles shooting exploding caseless ammo.
>its a post-apocalypse where radiation mutates you into shit instead of just giving cancer
>>634148801: Go to war to put some fucker sin their place.2: Fuckers switch side, but still need to be put in their place.3: Switch side so you can put those fucker sin their place, since your own side is now looking a lot more like the enemy side.
>>63408422solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant
>>63407561>t.qntmSeriously though, it seems like nobody here has heard of this guy, he writes some great shit, and the plot of this series by him is literally that.https://qntm.org/structure
>>63421108not reallyif you want to apply it it's more>even gods use weapons on each other, uncaring whether anything else takes damagebecause if they weren't trapped here they wouldn't give a quant of a shit about us
>>63396458Why would I want to play in a modern setting?
>All these YKK mentions
>>63388377well worth the trubba.
>>63399914Constipated. The apocalypse is when the dam breaks.
>>63401442>>63407897>>63400685That's uh. Kinda odd really. What exactly is the disaster?
>>63388369>>63404520>>63405604Naussica also has a whole 'nother apocalypse occurring in slow motion.
>>63404301War. War never changes.
>>63422065Almost like when Fallout isn't written by Bethesda's hacks, it actually has a theme and a message that its setting and events embody.
>>63422003Which one exactly, the posts describe mutliple thingsThe ones I made up in the first half of >>63401442 are just random ideas I came up withAll the other posts are about plot points from a web serial called Worm (and it's sequel) about a world where superpowers started appearing in the 80s alongside other mysterious phenomenoms.One thing were the Endbringers, giant monsters that take turns attacking random population centers. They were basically unkillable and always managed to destroy the cities (and in two cases made entire countries sink, Japan and Newfoundland). Heroes and villains still always united against them to at least try and minimize the damage, hurting them enough to at least drive them off.I'll spare you the plot details that aren't really that interesting unless you actually want to read the story but in the end it was found out that the Endbringers were even stronger than they seemed. They pretended to put up a fight for plot reasons and fled once they got hurt too much but in reality they were always capable of single handidly destroying the entire world.The other thing about a person called Taylor causing Vietnam flashbacks in anyone even hearing her name was about the very end of the first story. Humanity was facing an alien god that killed a portion of the entire population already and threatened to extinct the human race. She did some plot stuff that allowed her to bodysnatch anyone in a large radius around her and mind controlled like 1000 superheroes and villains to make the decicive coordinated attack that killed the alien. She won the fight but left a shit ton of people traumatized and angry at her, everyone who took part in the battle collectively decided to never talk about it again and keep it a secret from normies who weren't there but Taylor remains a boogieman amongst those in the know. The sequel deals with the aftermath of that and is about the world recovering from the apocalypse, to go back to the threads topic
>>63422300The motive for those OP things to bother with that would be nice to know.
>>63388355I think you mean immediately before the apocalypse in god tier
>>63401442>the worst is over and things only can heal from hereIt doesn't. Fast forward a thousand years and the world has gone to absolute shit, almost as bad as after the Mushroom War. The Candy Kingdom has virtually collapsed and Jake's descendants have built a totalitarian state that is busy ruining the fucking world because the immortal rainicorn-dog wizard in charge of it is an asshole driven mad by grief.
>>63388712>During ApocOh yeah!
>>63422409Spoiler warning, not that you care.Superpowers were given to humans by the mentioned alien god as part of their breeding and evolution cycle.They are parasitic, made up of a hivemind of thousands of "shards" that each got abilities like changing dimensions, creating or destroying matter, generating energy, etc.They travel through space and break up their bodies once they find intelligent life.They distribute those shards amongst the life they find, each shard granting one creature a superpower, and make them fight to generate data and make the shards evolve through use. After a couple hundred years pass they blow up the planet and reform their bodies, searching for new prey.The story is obviously about them reaching our own plant, The Endbringers are one of the things they came up with along the way to increase conflict amongst prey and through that gain more data.By creating unstoppable enemies that force their prey to work together they get increased power use and ideas on how certain powers could interact when they meet.The Endbringers have to be strong enough to never get killed since that means less data, but smart enough to know that they can't just murder everyone since that also means no more data. Hence them acting the way they do.
>>63422409They're hinted to be avatars created subconsciously by Eidolon, one of the heroes. As >>63422570 mentioned, powers come from shards that discretely connect to people. His shard was revealed to be in charge of stress testing. So all the kaijus that appeared out of nowhere may have actually come from his power, to stir things up, spur people to develop new stuff for the shards to record, and wreck any serious attempts at mustering a united resistance. They're just there to be a problem that can't be solved.
>>63422705Well yeah, I just wanted to keep it simple since it already is kind of a tough concept and opposed to the actual story I only had one single post to explain it.There's also stuff about those alien gods fucking up when they came to earth and only working at half strenght (which is the reason they could be defeated in the first place). Had they managed to do everything they planned to do they would've orcastrated a centure long World War to create even more conflict and data.
>>63422510You're depressing the hell out of me right now.
Apocalypse and post-apocalypse are two of the most misused and misunderstood words in the English language. For one thing, apocalypse actually just means the same thing as "revelation" - a new understanding of things, but let's take the commonly accepted visual metaphor of "worldwide, civilization-destroying cataclysm".Therefore:>Pre-apocalyptic - civilization before the cataclysm. Example: The Roman Empire>Apocalyptic - no civilization because the cataclysm that destroyed it is currently underway. Example: The fall of the Roman Empire (the western European Dark ages)>Post-apocalyptic - civilization is reforming and reviving in the wake of the cataclysm. Example: The Migration Period>Post-post-apocalyptic - civilization has completely regenerated to a degree comparable to if not equivalent or superior to the civilization that came before it. Example: Carolingian Renaissance and the beginning of the feudal system.Nihilistic pseudo-intellectual luddite retards tend to mistake "post-apocalyptic" for any period that takes place after the [Insert Big Disaster Here] where humans are all wallowing in the dirt and eating their own shit like cavemen as the radioactive fallout causes their skin to slough off, and "post-post-apocalyptic" for "living in sheet-metal lean-tos around an active undetonated atom bomb". These "people" display a profound lack of knowledge of human nature and history and consequently fit naturally into the media industry.
>>63414880>>63389010I don't remember exactly, but essentially the Pope got mad at the Venetians, probably over debts. At the time, the Pope was really well connected, and both France and Spain were looking to cut in on Venice's trading empire. The HRE wanted to reassert itself in Italy.With Venice basically destroyed by the combined force of Europe, France emerged as the dominant power in Northern Italy. Spain consolidated itself in Southern Italy. The HRE had some peasant uprising or some shit. The Pope, naturally, took the side of (now crippled) Venice to drive France out of Italy and assert Vatican dominance.At some point, the Pope declares a sort-of Holy War. So all of Christianity gets involved, as England, Spain, and the HRE all want some part of France. Finally, Scotland joins France because they do that a lot to fuck with England. Milan also wants a chunk of France. Venice, sick of having to share Northern Italy, sides with France.The wars resume a few years later, because France and Spain both want all of Italy, and the Spanish crown marries into the Habsburgs, sealing an alliance between the HRE and Spain. Florence, now a Republic, comes in against the Pope (Machiavelli actually trains the troops) and wins with a homegrown army because thousands of Swiss mercenaries have to leave when the Swiss government says Swiss can't fight other Swiss. The Pope helps the Medici return to power, allying Florence and the Papacy. The Popes then flip-flop between being pro-France and pro-Spain. To fund the wars, the Popes ramp up indulgence sales, triggering a handful of German priests. The Habsburgs tax the nobles and the Bourbons tax the middle class, setting up the 30 Years War and the Huguenot conflicts.
>>63408313Is the top not connected to the bottom?
Where does Splatoon and its 12,000 years after humanity's extinction fall? Could a Splatoon RPG work and be good?
>>63404230Horizon zero Dawn
>>63422944No. The sallet is the helmet itself with its visor. It's often used with a bevor to protect your lower face and neck.
>>63388707To post pears and lament the long ago death of /ddg/
>>63395590>>63395590Wtf I like Israel now
>>63408101>It was a time of endemic war, often waged for arbitrary or simply insane reasonsThat applies to every single era of recorded history, including this one, you sheltered retard.