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Can you blame him? Edition

Previous Thread >>63313721

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various tabletop adaptations.

Possible topics include Modiphius' new rpg 'Star Trek Adventures', WizKids miniatures game 'Star Trek: Attack Wing', and Gale Force Nine's board game 'Star Trek: Ascendancy', as well as the previous rpgs produced by FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher, the Starfleet Battles Universe, and the Star Trek universe in general.


Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>http://pastebin.com/ndCz650p

Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>http://pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Ascendancy
-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

Star Trek: Fleet Captain
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/


Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Modiphius takes down links for the ST:A core book and expansions. Look in the archives or ask someone to send it to you via discord. Or... you know... buy the rulebook(s).
>>
>>63386327
she looks like Barbra Streisand's face double
>>
>>63386469
I mean, she might be. Ya never know with those sketchy Ba'ku.
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>>63386929
It's Donna Murphy, who also voiced Mother Gothel.
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>>63386971
>Mother Gothel
Who?
>>
>>63387046
The villain in Tangled.
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>>63387330
>Tangled
...and what is that? An anime or something? Never heard of this, is it good?
>>
>>63387046
Mother Gothel is the witch in *Rapunzel*, you uncultured swine.

Tangled is a poor-quality adaptation, and people actually know what Rapunzel is.
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In the Star Trek universe, we are enlightened and we know how to show respect to women....

>slapping the best girl instead of slapping troi for being a CHAV
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>>63386929
Wasn’t there some theory that the B’aku are human augments that went Amish?
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>tfw Earth low-budget V'Gers your homeworld
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>>63388629
I think that’s just a throwaway line from Enterprise. Data’s grandad wanted to hide his new augments in the Briar Patch so that Earth couldn’t find them.
>>
>>
>>63387663
wtf is this from?
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>>63392949
Star trek discovery
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>>63387046
>Ba'ku
>S'ona
Both untrustworthy. Gorn are No. 1
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>>63386327
The only thing I dislike, not really hate about Star Trek is that all the aliens are just humans with different, ridges, noses, ears, etc. I know there are exceptions but the majority of aliens seems to like that. Is there any in universe explanation for this or is it just for the show in general?
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>>63394014
Precursor race seeded the stars billions of years ago with DNA designed to eventually kind look like them. The one who explained this through a hologram programmed in everyone's DNA was played by the same actress as the female changeling.
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>>63394024
Is this common knowledge in the ST universe or is deeplore?
>>
>>63394035
>is it*
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>>63394035
There's nothing stating that the information was suppressed but it never comes up again.
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>>63394051
Seeing how Starfleet is then it soundly surprise me if they suppressed it like they did with the Omega particle
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>>63394064
I'm going to assume you got autocorrected from "it'd hardly surprise me" and rebut that Starfleet would absolutely adore the common ancestry of all humanoid life as an enormous ideological coup.
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>>63394051
>it never comes up again.
Not directly but there are a lot more hybrids in the later shows.
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>>63391788
There never seems to be a clearly defined size for the Cheyenne in fan art. Some people have the saucer comparable in size to the Galaxy/Nebbie saucer whereas some have it no larger than a Connie.
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>>63394077
Starfleet probably has a better grasp of genetics than you do, so they wouldn't adore it, just write it down.
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>>63394051
>>63394035
It doesn't come up when Chakotay, an anthropologist and exobiologist by training, is pleading with the Voth for the freedom of his ship and crew; the Voth would suppress that kind of knowledge if they possessed it, but it isn't even raised. And they should possess it, because they're a very old civilization that has traveled widely.

So either Chakotay doesn't know or he doesn't think it's relevant/worthwhile to point out that humans and Voth have at the bare minimum that common ground, but since the Voth are never mentioned again it's perhaps not surprising. It's honestly more of a Stargate/other derivatives of Von Daniken thing than a Star Trek idea.
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>>63394868
Weren't voth dinosaurs? In which case a precursor seeding life is irrelevant, since they're already from the same planet and evolutionary line.
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>>63394035
Iirc, while the Federation representatives who learn about it (Picard &co) react positively to the idea that they're distant relatives of most other species in the galaxy, the other groups present reject the idea as bullshit.
So I could see it as something that's widely debated despite there being lots of evidence and a literal ancient hologram explaining it. I believe it's also explicit that not *all* life comes from the seeding, it's just why humanoid bipeds are so common compared to things like Tholians.
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>>63394928
>the other groups present reject the idea as bullshit.
The Romulan captain seemed rather pleased desu.
>>
>>63394953
He just found out all the xeno rape camps could create more soldiers for the empire, why wouldn't he be happy?
>>
Was Cardassia ever great?
>>
>>63395005
Romulans just want qt π Klingon gfs
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>>63394953
I’ve read before that the Romulan Captain was originally supposed to be Tomolak, but the execs didn’t want to have the same antagonist too often so they swapped him out for a rando. Would make sense given the conversation Picard and the Romulan have at the end.
>>
there’s nothing wrong with being Ferengi
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>>63395337
Most cultures cling to a perceived “golden age”, often overlooking serious problems with that period. The time in which Cardassia was “great” may simply have been the time following the recovery from the collapse of the Hebitians and before their eventual defeat by the Federation in the border wars. A time in which Cardassia had the same problems it’s always had, but without an outside power to shine a light on them.
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>>63395364
The dental care ain’t great
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>>63394907
Yes, but Chakotay could have argued that the Voth could concede a lineage based on that ancient seeding. The fact is however that the Voth genetic markers thing doesn't really sit well with the Ancients genetic markers thing because either it should be obvious or it shouldn't be noticeable at all; it's the same story (the Voth one is told in less fundamentally stupid way) with a different ending.

Since the Voth didn't want to concede any lineage, it probably wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever, but it would have been a nice callback. Since Voth history only goes back about 20 million of their 65 million year exile from Earth, it's probably the best you could hope for to get them to concede you're alive and not a threat.
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>>63396205
There's some mention in the Voth episode of many species sharing the same genetic markers.
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>>63394494
I'm inclined to say smaller-it was kitbashed out of Galaxy saucer undersides, but the windows are twice as tall relative to the rime and the bridge twice as big
If the saucer is half as wide as the Galaxy's, then it's on the smaller end of the scale and the highlighter nacelles would be the same "irl" size as those on the other Wolf 359 models
https://imgur.com/gallery/Xkkix
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>>63398179
No matter what is done it still looks shit.
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>>63394035
Neither. It's likely available knowledge but you have to go looking to learn it. They're not gonna have a seminar for everyone in Starfleet going "hey, we're all descended from the same dude" because it doesn't matter in day-to-day life but there's almost certainly papers and reports about it out there if you're into ancient archaeology and history.
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>>63398218
Agreed. At that absurd size, I’d like to see them make the design look structurally sound. The J really shows as something they slopped together last minute.
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>>63400116
Always really bothered me that it had a flat outer window too. If they'd just said "this viewscreen" or something I could forget but... it looked cheap.

Fortunately since the Sphere Builders were defeated and the Temporal Cold War ended, there's no actual Enterprise-J, it's just another possible outcome like the Galaxy-X.
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>>63400772
All we need is for Admiral (you) to fly the USS Warcrime into the side of the KIS Annorax while making a time-themed pun and none of that bullshit will ever have happened.
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>>63400866
Someone call Cryptic, get them on the case immediately!
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Anyone have any links to Star Fleet Battles PDFs please?
The Archive has some but they're broken links (at least the ones I want are)
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>>63402468
'fraid I can't help ya, my dude. If you were looking for STA I could probably hook you up but SFB is outside of my wheelhouse.
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>>63402391
No, then you get nonsensical bullshit that proves sela was right for trying to genocide a race.
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>>63402659
Maybe we can convince Sela to guide the USS Warcrimes into the KIS Annorax instead of Admiral (You) and rid us of the entire shebang forever.
>>
>>63402659
>>63402700
It's OK guys Denise will have put all her kids through college soon and this bullshit can stop.
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>>63402700
A universe with Admiral (you) in it is still a universe with the greatest war criminal that has ever existed or ever will exist.
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>>63402659
Sela trying to genocide a race is how the whole shit started to begin with.

I fucking hate causality loops like that.
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>>63402997
True, but Cryptic will still want all the money in the world and plebs keep playing STO so Cryptic is gonna milk them for all they're worth.

>>63403085
You ain't wrong, bucko. Admiral (You) is a fucking monster and has to be stopped.
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>>63403085
>>63403138
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>>63386327
Why did Starfleet's technology get worse in between tos and tng?
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>>63403684
It didn't. They just became more restrained.
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>>63403684
How?
>>
You know what bugged me about that movie (in OPs post)?
Geordie was born without optic nerves but the healing aura grew him new eyes. Why the fuck didn't Picard's artificial heart rip itself out of his chest like a chestburster from alien?
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>>63404489
Because Insurrection was basically a really shit TNG 2 parter.
>>
Redpill: Balance of Terror is probably the best episode of the Star Trek franchise.
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>>63405540
>the best episode of the Star Trek franchise is an adaption of two submarine movies from the previous decade
Checks out
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>>63405931
>Not Optimus Prime Directive
You had ONE job.
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>>63405540
Best of the whole franchise? Nah/ Basically the best TOS episode? Yeah, I'll buy that one.
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>>63405637
Another of the best episodes is just The Man in the Glass Booth.
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My quest for miniskirts continues.
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Hey I'm a total newfag when it comes to Trek tabletop. What are the pros/cons of the different RPG systems?
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>>63405931
>No deflector dish belt buckle
>bridge hump doesn't become the middle of a stetson
>photon launcher isn't a wheelgun stored on the hip
I understand not using the nacelle pylons as thighs and the nacelles themselves as shins for a masculine bot, but c'mon...
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>>63411215
Without the bridge, the saucer split in half from port to starboard is basically a poncho complete with neck hole:
Big E just needs a stogie to fit in with the wild west frontier town days of TOS
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>>63411254
You really couldn't find a good pic of the man with no name?
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>>63411687
To be fair, if he has no name, it's hard to GIS for his name.
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>>63405540
One of my personal favourites
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>>63411702
"clint eastwood man with no name"
GG git gud
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>>63403684
Ruinous Cardassian/Tzenkethi wars. No great changes in border but huge losses of life, massive combat trauma in the general population, and a near-total drive of resources toward gearing for war despite that being against the Federation's founding principles, leading to a brain drain from the corps of engineers and the mothballing of promising lines of experimental technology because nobody understood how they worked any more. Grinding wars of attrition which reduced all sides from their former greatness to the level of Klingons and Romulans.
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>>63412540
I'm sure there are probably some idiots in the Cardassian or Romulan governments who legitimately think this.
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>>63412540
>dump klink and rom poster
>>63412701
>BASED fedposter.
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lest we forget
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>>63412816
>fedposters not explaining why they don't all have hoverboots and warp drives that can get to the center of the galaxy in a couple days in 2368
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>>63413985
>Implying we don't
>We don't just keep it a secret from those fucking stick in the mud klinks and paranoid freaks
lmaoing@u alien.
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>>63411687
Couldn't find one where he wears the poncho such that it covers his chest and back
>was looking for something like pic related, but shorter
Saucer folds in half to be upper torso/poncho
secondary hull becomes abdomen
nacelles+pylons become legs
"neck" and dome on underside of saucer become gun
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>>63413985
Hoverboots are irrelevant and super warp has always required help of some kind.
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Can anyone with the Operations Division book tell me which Starships are statted in it for the Federation (if any)?

Considering purchase for my game to go with Beta and Command books.
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>>63416997
N/A. No new ships included.
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>>63417157

Appreciate the info.

Maybe next supplement then.
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>>63417194
Possibly. We've got a good number of ships available now though, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a new book until Alpha Quadrant drops (whenever that's going to be).
>>
>>
>worst Trek movie as the OP kills the general
Fitting
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>>63419272
When did Picard show up in Into Darkness?
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>>63419441
When did they sing row row row your boat in Into Darkness?
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>Watch the new Short Treks
>Saru's species were actually the Deferi all along
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>>63419998
Can’t even find them online to steal and it doesn’t look like any of them are being release outside of the US
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>>63419673
When did they crash the Enterprise with no survivors in Star Trek V
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>>63420413
When did God need a starship in Into Darkness?
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All the other bad movies had at least one good scene, Insurrection had nothing.
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>>63419056
I don't get the love for the original design. The on-screen Ambassador is fantastic.
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>>63421290
the cloaked holodeck ship was a cool touch.
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>>63420331
Does internet work differently in other countries? Because I found them on my first try
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>>63421544
Well CBS have it in the USA and Canada and nowhere else is showing it legally internationally. All my regular free streaming sites don't have any of them. If you've found something by all means, share with the class.
>>
eh... hey Worf.. No means No
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>>63403995
In the original series hyperdrive speeds were faster, engagement distances were ridiculously longer, original series Constitution classes were ridiculously stronger than anything in tng barring the Q and glassing a planet was something that could be accomplished casually.
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>>63421901
>hyperdrive
Stupid

>faster
Objectively wrong. TNG's warp scale is to the one-third power faster than TOS' and TNG's asymptotes at infinity for warp 10 while TOS' does not. This means, for example, warp 8 is an even twice as fast in TNG than in TOS.

>engagement distances were ridiculously longer
So?

>original series Constitution classes were ridiculously stronger than anything in tng
Prove it.

>and glassing a planet was something that could be accomplished casually.
Still is in the TNG era, Picard just never saw fit to make that threat.
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>>63421840
They’ve literally fucked in the scene before that, my dude
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>>63423052
Consent is not a one-time deal.
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>>63423252
I know you're being retarded on purpose, but could you just not tonight? Please? Take your intentional obtuse bullshit somewhere else, there's a lot of 4chan for you to fucking ruin, leave us to our little corner of happy space adventures.
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>>63423297
>happy space adventures
It hasn't been that for decades. DS9 was all grimdark war is hell, voyager was the travelogue of a mass murdering monster, enterprise taught us how genocide is the moral course of action because god has a plan, and discovery is just...not happy. At all.
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>>63422038
>Still is in the TNG era, Picard just never saw fit to make that threat.
It's prbably implied in Pen Pals where they can just casually drill into a planet's mantle and stabilize it.
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>>63423797
DS9 flat out states that the Defiant could glass an entire hemisphere without much effort.
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>>63423797
Also that one episode where they use a tractor beam to nudge a fucking moon back into its proper orbit, with the implication that they could, using the same technology, push a moon out of its proper orbit and send it hurtling into its planet.

Also that one episode where a new form of propulsion almost accidentally an entire planet.

Also that one episode where Picard causes planet-wide earthquakes to prove he's stronger than god.

Come to think of it, we don't actually know if Kirk was bluffing on whether the Enterprise was actually capable of destroying a planet.

I don't see how anyone can actually watch the shows and conclude that TNG is less advanced because they don't actually watch the shows and just shitpost
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>>63423297
Consent is not a one-time deal anon. If you think that's retarded, you're literally too stupid for life.

>happy space adventures

Which ones, the ones about implacable space aliens and genetic supermen murdering a man's family and friends to get at him, the ones about aliens creating a predestined meat puppet to fulfil a conversation they're having with themselves, the ones about a sad robot deliberately made without emotions just to fuck with it, the ones about people ripped halfway across the galaxy losing half their crewmates in the process and facing a seventy-year journey in a tin can through hostile space, or the ones everybody actually hates because they're new and the lighting is funny and they don't agree with the characterization or tone?

Or were you perhaps talking about Star Trek Nemesis?

tl;dr always seek consent, and be mindful of your partner's desires
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>>63423976
Don't forget that episode where the KLINGONS casually glassed an entire planet using SCIENCE, to the point that even the magic Enterprise scanners couldn't find a single piece of DNA anywhere.
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>>63423675
TOS was never happy, it was all space monsters and giant death machines and dead colonists and ironic deaths and shit like that. The only happiness was the false smile of the drunken sailor.
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>>63424047
It's the smile of a mature, stable society where the horrors of the galaxy are met imperfectly but effectively by what humanity has become. We don't know why we're here, or what we're supposed to do but we know right from wrong and have big enough guns to back it up.
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>>63405540
It's certainly top five. Star Trek runs such a gamut of tones and genres that it's hard to really compare, say, Balance of Terror to The Inner Light in any meaningful way beyond just "they're both great at what doing what they try to do."
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>>63421290
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4x1K97JZG0
Insurrection gave us the Trill waifu to surpass both Jadzia and Ezri
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>>63421733
torrents bruh
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>introduced in ds9 2x22 the wire
>destroyed in ds9 3x21 the die is cast
Huh. For all the attention it gets it's a bit counterintuitive to know that it was only really around for a year.
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>>63421840
Now a thread for Klingons...
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>>63426439
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>>63421840
Go rewatch that scene anon.
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>>63424922
Is...is that a young Katheryn Winnick?
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>>63427130
Apparently someone called Stephanie Niznik. From her IMDB page it looks like she could best be described as background actress #225
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>>63410995
I've only played Adventures but the consensus I've gotten is that, despite its issues, STA is the best system out there for Star Trek. LU and FASA are technically complex, which is a good thing or a bad thing depending on your personal preferences.
I've heard some good things about Uncharted Worlds so I'm gonna give that a try for my next campaign.
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>>63424922
That's not the Riker Maneuver.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVIGhYMwRgs
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>>63427659
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>>63423976
>Come to think of it, we don't actually know if Kirk was bluffing on whether the Enterprise was actually capable of destroying a planet.
With photon torpedoes and phasers they almost assuredly could destroy the crust in a few minutes.
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>>63427751
I mean, do they not all lean?
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>>63429092
Depends on the episode.
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>>63403085
If every other shot fired isn't some sort of treaty violation or decried as an atrocity by at least three interstellar powers you're doing it wrong.
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>>63431524
If a man can’t fire weaponised time at his enemies can that man truly say he is free.
>>
Crew of the USS Fredrickson, turn away from this post now and set course for somewhere else, this is GM business!

/stg/, I come to you in need of aid. I have a plan, ish, for my next session but need some episodes to watch for inspiration. Sadly, I don't remember which episodes are most useful and could use some advice on what episodes to watch (as well as general advice).

Spoilered to prevent nosy players: The basic plot is that the PC's will discover a lost Andorian colony that's coming into conflict with an OC donutsteel race that claims that area of space. Tensions are high and both factions are fairly warlike so conflict is likely.

What I need help with is the details. Who shoots first? Why? Who's profiting from the conflict? How does the player's arrival change the playing field?

Also, any good episodes to watch with this theme (lost colony vs ayys)?
>>
>>63433613
Remind me the time period, and describe the donuts.

In general I'd have the Andorians be more defensive: absolutely willing to defend themselves, but won't make a plainly aggressive move. This means either the donuts will, or the Andorians will launch a preemptive strike if they believe the donuts are about to shoot first. Players showing up gives the Andorians the immediate advantage since they're Starfleet, unless the lost colony is pre-Federation and the colony has been cut off for that long, in which case it would actually depend on who the Fredrickson's bridge crew are. Depending on the donuts, they might fall back and scheme for a while, or they might launch a surprise assault hoping to take everyone by surprise to counter the new battleship showing up (from their perspective).

Who's profiting? Either Ferengi or Romulans or both, always.
>>
>>63429092
Not really. Phaser yields are fairly ambiguous (we don't have anything real to compare them to) but photon torpedoes are matter-antimatter weapons - their maximum energy output is calculable (it's a 100% conversion of mass to energy, as the two annihilate one another completely, breaking all atomic and subatomic bonds immediately). Even relatively large weapons aren't particularly explosive (the energy released will be in the microwave portion of the spectrum) despite being depicted as such - matter-antimatter simply does not work that way. Since they're usually fired in space, we don't often get to see a shockwave (though sometimes we hear about subspace shockwaves, which again is incalculable as subspace is fiction) though on a planetary surface they would undoubtedly have greater affect - from superheating the atmosphere to causing numerous secondary explosions of substances found on the ground. You'd get the usual nuclear firestorms and atmospheric shockwaves, and they are big explosions - photon explosions are measured in-universe in isotons, which are (guess what) ambiguous fictional units with a range of possible values, but clearly in some cases orders of magnitude greater than megatons.

There are various other problems: a 50 isoton blast is said to be enough to blow up a small planet (though that's Harry Kim talking, and he is prone to hyperbole), while 10 isotons could safely be fired near a crashed, nonfunctional Jem'hadar attack ship without fear of harming the Founder sheltering inside it. So isotons may be a logarithmic scale rather than a useful absolute measure (and it's curious to wonder why they would implement such a scale, given that it clearly patterns after ton, megatons etc).

It's also said that photons pre-mix deuterium and antimatter to magnify the explosion (which is pure bullshit, as it requires getting more energy out of the equation than is put in - it's a god-bomb), so the isoton measure is harder to calculate as a result.
>>
>>63429092
>>63433945
To be honest, a single low-yield photon torpedo is a sufficient weapon to destroy an entire city, and a ship with a complement of say 30 torpedoes (like an Intrepid fresh out of spacedock) would be able to near-instantaneously destroy that number of even quite large cities. Phasers are typically more direct and short-ranged, with either better or worse precision/destructive power depending on the writer of the story, but in general are probably outputting energy in the gigawatt range at least; a hand phaser on maximum setting can vaporize a human instantly and so - assuming this is a boil-the-water-break-the-bonds deal - is somewhere around 80 megawatts for an average human body (based on water content). The explosive steaming isn't really what we see (it would be a lot messier and smellier) so perhaps nadion particles (which Federation phasers use as their particle in the beam) break apart subatomic bonds readily. This would require them to be quite massy themselves but overall I think would reduce the necessary energy output (assuming nadions are easy to generate). However, since we never see the targets explode at all or the things around them suddenly burst into flame, nadions and phasers are, in general, more bullshit.

A starship phaser would likely be in the terawatt range or even above, though that's still based on the steamer-destroyer hypothesis and does raise significant problems (namely even a warp reactor would struggle to maintain firing for long periods, and shields being equally insane power drains, and firing in atmosphere would probably ignite the entire planet). So, yes, starship phasers probably could destroy entire cities, but only because they're physics ignoring cunts.
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What exactly is the Neutral Zone? They way they speak it just sounds like a border between the Federation and the Romulans, but why not just call it that? The "Neutral Zone" implies a neutral area where they can peacefully meet, like Babylon 5. But in the show everyone's like "oh the Neutral Zone, don't go near the Neutral Zone"

It also sounds like a pretty large section of space, are there worlds within the Neutral Zone? When one of them reaches warp technology how is it decided whether the Feds or the Romulans will go over there to talk to them?

Actually a story about a species whose planet is inside the Neutral Zone sounds like it could be really good
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>>63434130
The Neutral Zone is a buffer zone between the Federation and Romulan borders. It's like a Demilitarized Zone except nobody is supposed to be in there ever without prior agreement, not just their respective militaries. The main difference between the Romulan Neutral Zone and the Cardassian Demilitarized Zone is that in the latter there are still colonies on both sides where civilians live, whereas in the former there doesn't seem to be any inhabited planets at all.
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>>63434130
There are worlds within the Neutral Zone. The Neutral Zone must be crossed and this takes a definable period of time to do (though that probably changes based on the point at which you intend to cross and the route you take across it).

The Neutral Zone is only a zone that Federation and Romulan vessels have undertaken not to enter: other species are able to enter it (since they are not party to the treaty) though as with any such travel they do so at their own risk. The zone itself was probably defined according to some fairly worthless planets with no warp-capable species (who would likely be allies of one side or the other) or species who are believed to be neutral by both sides within it.

Since the treaty forbids entering the neutral zone, neither Romulan nor Federation vessels could enter it even to speak to a newly Warp-capable species (unless there is a specific clause of the treaty which permits this). There are certain circumstances when captains enter the zone by mutual agreement (on a ship for ship basis) together, or are granted temporary permission by the opposing government to enter, so the zone is not inviolable without breaching the treaty.

The Romulan-Federation war was fought with atomic weapons (as opposed to antimatter weapons, though they probably used those as well, but in smaller numbers due to their relative complexity and expense of manufacture), which may mean that former Federation and Romulan colonies within the Neutral Zone are uninhabitable atomic wastelands dripping with fallout for the next billion years, thus rendering most questions of life within the zone moot.
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>>63433811
>time period
Late 2371, so season 4ish of DS9. Location is the Typhon Expanse, coreward of the Romulan Neutral Zone and unexplored space.

>donuts
They're a semi-robotic race called the Rotomin. They're natively fluidic but move around in clockwork robots that they flow through like blood and control electromagentically. They have a strong sense of manifest destiny and tend to claim any system they come across as theirs. This has never been an issue since they've never run into anyone they couldn't immediately steamroll. The Andorians are the first post-warp culture they've encountered and the Rotomin aren't 100% sure what to do with them since the Andorians are tough enough that the Rotomin can't just instantly crush them with advanced technology (in fact, the Andorians are pretty close in power, despite being 100 years out of date; the colony dates to TOS era).

The Rotomin have a few subjucated races, though they're not abused or anything. They're treated more like pets (they're all pre-warp and most are pretty low on the tech scale) and are watched from above. If it comes to a fight, it'll be just the Rotomin fighting, they don't let their pet races into space, much less fight for them (it's a pride and superiority thing, the Rotomin believe they're better than other species).

>profiting
Well, the Roms are nearby and the Fredrickson has already encountered them being shifty. I might use someone else though, the Roms were literally in last session.
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>>63434311
>They're natively fluidic but move around in clockwork robots that they flow through like blood and control electromagentically.
Frederickson shows up and tries to defuse the situation. Suggests a diplomatic meeting. Rotomin agrees to send a diplomatic team. One of the diplomats is actually two in the same robot and the sensors can't tell the difference. When onboard, the extra Rotomin hops out of the shell and starts fucking around with ship internal systems, trying to find a way to hijack the ship and turn it against the Andorians.
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>>63420450
When did Kahn punch kirk in Generations?
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>>63434429
That's a neat idea. I like it, gives it a little horror element as they have to chase down an alien infiltrator.
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>>63423976
>Come to think of it, we don't actually know if Kirk was bluffing on whether the Enterprise was actually capable of destroying a planet.
https://i.imgur.com/09Ej0Yb.gif
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>>63435025
And what series was that one from? Looks like Discovery what with the production quality.
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>>63435058
Yup, it's from STD-as such, it predates TOS in-timeline, which means the Enterprise probably packs the same punch (if not something heavier).
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>>63435058
It is Discovery. Mirror Universe arc, towards the end of the season. Let's say that Empress Georgio is not a nice person.
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>>63435109
>>63435111
>Mirror Universe
Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that TOS Prime Universe has the same destructive power, though it seems likely to be within TOS Starfleet's capabilities, maybe not as easily but probably possible.
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>>63425700

Except everyone hates uploading torrents for Short Trek. Anyone have a link to working torrents or mega?
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>>63435229
Technologically the Terran Empire is behind the Federation, so if anything, Federation ships can bring more oomph to a fight.
Though I will say that this particular volley came from a somewhat larger ship than the Federation at the time was fielding.
See attached image.
That is the ISS Charon, a purpose-built warship for the Empress.
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>>63435461
I'm pretty willing to bet that the Terran Empire has better guns than the Feds due to differing priorities. The Feds are probably ahead in engines and science stuff but the Terrans probably have all manner of crazy deathguns because that's how they are.
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>>63435519
See, in TOS it was said that their tech was similar/variations of Feddie tech.
But then in Enterprise they pulled a whole constitution class ship out of some tholians asshole and reverse engineered it, which would mean that they didn't advance technologically since enterprise days at all between Enterprise and TOS.
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>>63435603
But in Discovery they have giant spaceships that the Federation doesn't seem to have (the one posted above, for instance). It's almost like MU consistency isn't a thing.
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>>63435684
>It's almost like consistency isn't a thing.
ftfy.
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>>63436955
The Scimitar looked neat but that movie was really really terrible. I mean, what was Shinzon's plan even? Use Picard's blood or something to make himself not die? The fuck is that? Idiot.
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>>63436976
>that movie was really really terrible
I've seen fa/tg/uy proposals for fixing ENT
>Each season focuses on getting one of the core races on board with the federation, redesigning the ship to look more primitive externally, gradual tech upgrades as the show progresses, NO TIME TRAVEL PLOT except as a one-off
What can we conjure up as a rewrite of Nemesis?
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>>63437129
I was about to do a huge write-up then I realized: just fucking plagiarize Enemy and the Manchurian Candidate.
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>>63435684
In TOS we only saw the one ship, which was so far as we know a Constitution similar to contemporary Starfleet ships.

However the Empire has possessed this tech for a century by that point, using one captured example to simply end a conflict which had previously been tearing the Empire apart and - presumably - then doing little by way of innovation for a hundred years because they don't need to. They know when their enemies will develop better tech and even who will develop it in certain cases, because that's in the Federation database captured with the Defiant. Rather than proliferate their advanced tech immediately it stands to reason they would produce just enough Constitutions and other advanced vessels to recover control of the Empire and crush its neighbors after a period of consolidation and shipbuilding. This way they don't risk the future tech and its advantages falling into enemy hands.

>>63436976
Shinzon's plan was "I am insane". If it had been Ricardo Montelban it wouldn't have made any more sense. It was what it was, a Star Trek plot: the problems with that movie were much deeper. Ageing, bored main cast, low expectations, poor internal continuity (like the deck numbers and the fact the vampire falls into a chasm at the bottom of the ship), terrible sets - truly terrible, right down to the Remans having huge fingernails and using push-buttons on every panel for some reason. The performances were intended to carry it just as they had the previous movies. I mean what was the Borg plan in First Contact? Go back in time and assimilate Earth in the past? OK yeah how about doing that before flying right into the heart of the Federation fighting all the way.

They didn't even need to assimilate Earth, or destroy Bozeman like they originally tried to do, just stop the launch. Could've used the escape pods or shuttles to get there once they had control of the lower decks.
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>>63437129
Write Shinzon the way you would write a mirror universe Picard. Have his goal to explicitly be to conquer Earth by force of arms and then bring the rest of the Federation under heel as an iron Emperor. Have him point out all the shit that's happened in terms of how many wars the Federation has fought as his justification, wanting to sacrifice what he thinks are a relative few now in order to prevent widespread suffering later on, seeing the Federation's stubbornness for diplomacy as being a weakness. Shinzon and the Scimitar are defeated by a combined force of Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians alongside the Enterprise, all of whom have been convinced to side with Picard through his diplomatic speeches over the years, proving Picard right. The Scimitar ends up disabled, not destroyed, as Picard shows mercy to the Reman crew. Shinzon dies from issues related to his creation, rejecting medical help out of pride, refusing to live in a galaxy where he accepted what he sees as weakness.
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>>63437129
>What can we conjure up as a rewrite of Nemesis?
I'd do something where Shinzon is a Romulan ruler who resembles Picard but where Picard is gentle and understanding, Shinzon is ruthless and without scruples. The core idea of "Shinzon is Picard's evil mirror" is a good one, the real movie just fucked it up with the entire clone thing. Make Shinzon a native Romulan who is Picard-esque but in that usual evil Romulan way instead of idiotic body double way. I haven't given this real thought but I do feel like the basic theme is doable (though I'd lose all that Data/B-4 crap).
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>>63437129
1/3
Same stupid giant ship, Shinzon is still an aborted Romulan clone of Picard and still kills the Romulan senate (like it or not, that's a visually great scene). But he's not trying to take control, just go rogue with his giant ship, like an evil Picard. The Romulan ships burn all the way to the Neutral Zone.

No diplomatic bullshit: the Enterprise is patrolling the edge of the Neutral Zone in response to intelligence reports of ships massing on the other side. Long range telemetry tells them nothing useful. The Enterprise has a task force of ships - some familiar classes like the Intrepid and so on - working with it. The old tachyon net plot is recycled: one night a cloaked scoutship comes through on scan, is challenged and decloaks. It's already burning. It hails, the surviving crew have just enough time to plead for help and claim the Empire is burning before the reactor explodes.

Picard and his crew and other captains debate the merits of entering the Neutral Zone. There's no official word on what's happening. The Romulan embassy is suspected to have lost contact with the Senate. The decision is eventually made to cross the border, leaving the task force behind and sending the Enterprise, broadcasting a message of aid on all frequencies. The hope is that this is Romulus' Khitomer moment.

Twelve hours later the task force is attacked. The Scimitar surfaces from cloak like an avenging kraken, destroying half a dozen heavily armed ships in minutes. They survive just long enough to get a message to the Enterprise. Picard is now stuck on the far side of the Neutral Zone: if he stops, the future of peace in the quadrant is at risk. If he doesn't stop, the Scimitar is free to annihilate whole worlds on the Federation side. The crux comes as the Enterprise renders assistance to the Warbird Valdor: Commander Donatra reveals Romulus was destroyed by the Thalaron weapon hours after the Senate was killed.
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>>63437129
>>63437691

2/3
Enterprise races back to the Federation side of the Neutral Zone. Sporadic reports come in of small Romulan fighters attacking Federation outposts and civilian vessels, but these are a feint and Picard begins to understand, based on the intelligence Donatra provided about Shinzon, that he must learn to defeat his own instincts in order to bring the Scimitar to battle. Cloaked mines have been deployed around the crippled Federation vessels and outposts as a way of luring more ships to their doom: Picard has his crew search for Federation worlds and outposts which are no longer broadcasting subspace signals. (We've seen some of this as interpolated battle scenes, but it's news to Enterprise). Data and Geordi surmise that of fourteen possible locations of the Scimitar, two have already been destroyed, two are sending only automated signals and are likely destroyed as well, six are out of range for the fighters used in the feint and four more are probable targets of opportunity for Scimitar. Picard guesses which world he would pick - a Vulcan colony furthest from the border - as a political compromise with his Reman crew and orders the Enterprise there at warp 9, unwilling to call further ships in the area to assist until he has engaged the enemy.

Third act. At the colony the Enterprise finds a peaceful system with a single system defence ship, an old Constellation brought into service to cover Dominion War losses. The captain hails Enterprise, confused, and Picard realizes as the slow conversation progresses where Shinzon is. Unable to warn the captain in time to raise shields the Enterprise watches as the Scimitar surfaces from cloak and obliterates the old ship with a single volley of torpedoes.
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>>63437696>>63437129

3/3 As Enterprise goes from yellow to red, helm reports three more ships decloaking ahead: Worf hesitates just long enough to confirm that one of them is the Valdor and all three are on an attack vector to engage the Scimitar, having shadowed Enterprise across the Neutral Zone, considering Shinzon an internal matter.

The four vessels attack but Scimitar is too powerful: two Warbirds are destroyed in minutes, Valdor is crippled, and Enterprise, weapons depleted and shields minimal, attempts a ramming maneuver only to strike Scimitar aft and temporarily disable her warp drive at the cost of Enterprise's impulse and warp engines. Geordi desperately tries to avoid ejecting the core while Picard gathers his senior staff. There's no other option but a boarding party: Scimitar's shields are down aft and Picard would never have attempted such a maneuver especially with his ship adrift, so Shinzon is unlikely to expect it. Scimitar moves into position above the colony, ready to destroy again, as the Picard, Data, Worf and a dozen security teams beam over simultaneously, trying to stop Scimitar from firing or enable its self destruct. Riker remains on Enterprise with Troi as his first officer because oh holy fuck was that psychic powers plot tedious in the actual movie.

FUCK I NEED ANOTHER ONE
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>>63437706
>FUCK I NEED ANOTHER ONE
Insurrection?
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>>63437706
>>63437129

4/3
The Federation forces fight their way to the Scimitar's bridge and engine room as the thalaron generator reaches its climax, but Worf's units are pinned down by the Reman crews in the engine room and Data and Picard are the only survivors on the bridge. Insane, Shinzon lunges at Picard as Data is mopping up Remans, but Picard prevails with an easy feint, shooting Shinzon in the back with a phaser. Data is about to repeat his line from earlier "I would never have expected that from you, captain" when Picard silences him with an Ahab glare. The reactor can no longer be shut down: Data and Picard argue about who should stay behind to destroy it as Picard orders Worf's units to retreat and Enterprise to beam Data out - only for Data to embrace him as a friend, surreptitiously swapping their combadges over. As Picard dematerializes Data says goodbye one last time, firing through where Picard had been standing to destroy the generator and the Scimitar, the last Soong-type android known to exist.

Riker takes command of the Titan with Troi as his first officer. Worf is promoted to XO of Enterprise and commander. Weary and old and confused, Picard sends his ship out into the unknown, his mission unstoppable but his hope and his sense of self depleted. Is he Shinzon, waiting to come out? Was Locutus simply his inner amoral self? These questions trouble him as Enterprise heads back to the Neutral Zone after refit to render assistance to the remains of the Romulan Empire.
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>>63437724
It's just the way these pants look when I'm sitting, I swear.
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>>63437318
I actually think Shinzon being a literal clone of Picard can work very well as a nature vs. nurture scenario. By highlighting the differences between the two due to nurture, it implicitly highlights the fundamental principles of the Federation and reaffirms them, making it clear why the Federation are the good guys instead of simply taking it for granted.
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Does anyone make decent TOS minis? Any scale, and off brand or just 60s scifi matching the aesthetic is also fine.
>>
What the fuck is the federation supposed to be? I’m watching TOS for the first time and I’m having difficulty understand what it is. Is it a military expeditionary force? Is it a scientific and academic institution? A peace envoy - with guns? Explorers? It seems like the Enterprise is literally whatever the story needs it to be. They never define what the fuck the Enterprise is supposed to be besides seeking out new life and even then it’s like... ok why?
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>>63438642
>It seems like the Enterprise is literally whatever the story needs it to be.
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>>63438667
Thanks for the non answer
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>>>/co/104587776
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>>63438642
The Federation? Or Starfleet? The Federation is a unified government of allied planets and races that bonded together for mutual benefit.

Starfleet is the space arm of that government. Starfleet does many things, serving as a defense force, exploration corps, and scientific/academic organization with a focus on space operations. The Enterprise is primiarly an exploration vessel but occasionally does other things, such as defense and diplomacy.
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>>63437764
>I think we're all pitching tents after that beautiful rewrite
I'd be willing to stomach Shinzon being a clone if his motivation is to prove himself the better Picard by applying the Romulan management style to the Federation
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>>63413434
What in God's name is that?
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>>63438642
The Federation is Space UN.

Starfleet is technically speaking Earth's space navy and exploration fleet, but with Earth being the capital of the Federation Starfleet operates under authority and command of the Federation itself. Ideally they try to be an exploration fleet first and foremost, with ships having weaponry for self-defense if they run into any hostile aliens. The fact the Federation is still at war with the Klingons during TOS doesn't help. Think of Starfleet as if the US Navy and NOAA merged into one big happy family.

Exploration is its own goal. Learning about things is fun.
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>>63438642
Starfleet and the Federation believe in diplomacy and peaceful coexistence first, but aren't stupid enough to be completely pacifistic. The Federation is essentially Teddy Roosevelt's "speak softly and carry a big stick", with the Constitution-class being Starfleet's Great White Fleet.
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>>63438786
>The Federation is Space UN.
Stronger than that. It seems to be a somewhat less stringent EU but with a military.
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>>63438700
It was the truest answer you'll ever find and you said it yourself.
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>>63434130
>Maurice Hurley had something more in mind with this episode. The attacks the Romulans complain about in "The Neutral Zone" dangled as an unresolved plot device for quite some time, but there was a plan: Hurley had meant for this episode to comprise part of a trilogy in which the Borg would be formally introduced. The opening episode of the second season further explored matters, including a possible alliance between the Federation and the Romulan Empire to counter the new threat. Such plans, however, were ruined by the writer's guild strike of that year. As such, the Borg's introduction had to wait until "Q Who".
Only semi-related, but what a loss.
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>>63438907
>Stronger than that. It seems to be a somewhat less stringent EU but with a military.

Isn't the EU trying to organise a military? So it would be just 'a less stringent EU'
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>>63438592
I think one or more small casters does fuckawful people in 28mm and I could swear I've seen them in 15mm (probably another Khurasan miniatures project), but there's a boatload of starships available thanks to Star Fleet Battles stubbornly refusing to die.
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>>63395339
Who doesn't? Even Quark wants a piece of that.
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>>63437129
Picard is the eternal starship captain because James Tiberius Fucking Kirk told him to be with his dying breath. In every alternate future of note absent the events of Generations, Picard is no longer a captain. Hell, he only became a captain at all because of two freak accidents: a bar fight with a Nausicaan and the death of his CO on board the Stargazer.

Shinzon would miss all of that. The Romulans would have put an enormous amount of resources into cloning a useless science dweeb. They'd prop him up as a figurehead for the Tal Shiar and let him take the blame for everything.
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Where do you guys find groups at? I was looking to try out a Star trek or Stargate themed game but can't find one.
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>>63442346
>tfw Shinzon escapes to Earth to take over the Picard family vineyard.
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>>63442930
That would genuinely have been a better film.

Massive political shitstorm on Romulous in a Reman uprising sees the entire governing body exterminated using a weapon that demands Star Fleet's investigation coupled with some of the less strictly enforced outer colonies along the border requesting UFP assistance to stop Nausicaan, Orion and Ferangi """privateer""" raiders.

In this chaos up pops the Picard clone (he has hair. Picard had hair at his age) who was the driving force behind trying to get his people, if not equal rights, some rights. They did not manage to build a big and working fucking starship in secret, they by that point had managed to commandeer some ships that were in system at the time with the help of sympathisers.

By the time Enterprise gets to Romulous the place is in uproar with the two planets in a stand off. The Remans have enough ships to make the Romulans work for it but they are out numbered. To make matters worse the Romulan government wasn't the people responsible for requesting the Enterprise's presence and their straight line of travel had been masked by someone in the government.

Mexican stand off in the senate with Picard and friends and the Praetorian Guard mirroring the standoff in orbit between the two fleets with Riker commanded Enterprise standing between the two.

Then Spock walks into the senate with a WoK era phaser pistol in each hand and a handful of mean looking insurgents all armed to the teeth and takes this opportunity to finish cleaning house and setting up his Reformationists as the new government, winning the Remans over to his side with promise of amnesty and equality. Stabs Sela, tells her she has at most half an hour before she looses a critical amount of blood and that medical attention will not be given unless she orders her ships to stand down and go about elsewhere

Picard Clone comes back to Earth with Picard. Spock stays on Romulous as a governmental advisor. Sela is found face down in the river.
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>>63442346
>Picard is the eternal starship captain because James Tiberius Fucking Kirk told him to be with his dying breath.
This happened when Picard had already been a captain, in rank or position, for the past 38 years. I think it's safe to say Kirk's speech had nothing to do with Picard's career decisions.
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>>63443405
I mean, who else is going to take over the Vineyard? Picard's brother is too old to put out another kid and his nephew died in a fire and Picard himself is never going to have a family.
So what happens to the family Vineyard? I guess either the Federation will seize the land and turn it into a condo or make it some weird tourist destination where alien tourists go and they're shown how primitive humans made wine and get to stomp in tubs of grapes while their fat Bolien husbands snap photos and the kids won't fucking stop shrieking and throwing mud at each other.
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>>63443501
Unlikely. They would probably hand it to the nearest living relative, no matter how distant that is.

In Star Trek the state is more likely to seize children than land. Unless it's to appease a hostile government.
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>>63444528
They wouldn't just hand it to relatives unless said relatives were actually interested. Picard's brother had a vineyard because he wanted to take it over, not just because it ran in the family. Chances are the vineyard would've been "sold" to someone else had Rene gone off to be an explorer like he wanted.
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>>63443501
Picard's brother died in the fire too. IIRC Beta canon last had his sister-in-law still running the vineyard.
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>>63443501
>Picard's brother is too old to put out another kid
The entire family died in that fire, so it's not that he's too old, it's that he's too crispy.
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>>63448030
>too crispy.

Nah, they put them right in the fridge after that, the crust goes soggy.
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>>63446318
>>63448030
Oh damn, I thought it was only the kid. How does that even happen in Utopia Earth? I know Robert wasn't big into modern tech but surely he at least had some smoke detectors.
That brings up another matter, in a moneyless society, who are the firefighters, because they apparently did a pretty shit job.
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>>63449192
Electronics can still spark and burn in utopias, my dude. Electrical fires happen. Also, remember that the wife cooked real food with real fire/oven so something bad could have happened there. More likely though that something happened at night while they were sleeping and the firefighters just weren't quite fast enough to save them, sort of like happens in real life. Utopia doesn't mean perfect safety, accidents still happen and people can still die in them.
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>>63449192
>>63449654
Q
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>>63443405
This STO mission intrigues me.
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>>63449192
Remember that Sisko's dad had a heart attack or two because of his less than ideal diet and lack of cooperation with his doctor's care regime.
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>>63450729
>less than ideal diet
Are you trying to say that gumbo is not the ideal food? Because you'd just be fucking wrong. Gumbo is bae and you'll have to deal with that.
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>>63449192
>in a moneyless society, who are the firefighters

The regional sensor grid and transporter hub. Remote / Expert drones. Heroic exocomps. Large area coverage holoemitters and emergency holograms.

Who handles emergencies in a utopian state? The state.
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>>63449192
>, in a moneyless society, who are the firefighters
Presumably the same type of people who are volunteer fire fighters nowadays.
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>>63449192
>in a moneyless society, who are the firefighters
Either people who want to handle disaster relief specifically, or people who sign up to something like Starfleet and get assigned to disaster relief for a few years.
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>>63450095
>Implying STO would ever get rid of Sela.
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>>63452105
It'd be a two-parter. The next mission you'd find out the galaxy is doomed unless sela is around to genocide something, so you go back in time to faker her death.
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>>63452217
>the mission is set by a mystery admiral in shadow
>at the end it turns out it's Sela
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>>63452373
>who it turns out is being manipulated by the Iconians
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>>63452961
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>>63453660
>the iconians set up sela to kill several of them
>this is a time travel murder mystery now
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>>63427659
>>63427751
I heard Frakes had a bad back or something
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>>63454206
At 6'3" he's significantly taller than most of his co-stars. Leaning helps get him into the frame without breaking up the shot, but as a freakish giant it's also his prerogative to sit wherever and however he pleases.

Actually he's the same height as Michael Dorn, but Klingons are supposed to be huge and intimidating (except Gowron) and that often means Worf is up on the Security station, where he appears to be taller, or is otherwise filmed in a way that gives the appearance of height.
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>>63395337

Not really, they peaked during the time of the Bajoran occupation. Cardassia's entire reason for becoming an imperial power was the its own lack of resources. They are quite obviously not great post-DS9.
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>>63453744
>dispatched to the Federation colony Sela-4
>everything is genocided, even the statues of Admiral Sela, captain of the NX-01 have been torn down
>Sela turns to Admiral (you)
>"The Sela did this, they're a faction Iconian Time Daniels controls in the Temporal Hot War, you must genocide them. There will be a T6 reskin if you complete the mission. Sela of Nine will join your crew for this mission to give you advice. She's good fun, just don't let her aselanation tubules up your butt."
>your account has been renamed Admiral (Sela)
>all accounts are renamed Admiral (Sela)
>Sela is life, today is a good day to Sela, remember the 181st rule of Sela: Infinite Sela in Infinite Sela
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>my opinion on Sela and the Iconians
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>>63444528
>Unless it's to appease a hostile government.
To be fair we don't know the terms under which the colonists settled that land. Trying to take Lal was fucked tho.
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>>63456035
>Trying to take Lal was fucked tho
Objects don't have rights.
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>>63456081
Amazing then, that they're not actually objects and are considered sentient beings. Weird how that works.

Unless you use some definition of object that is so loose that human beings qualify as well, in which case you're just some retarded baiter who isn't interested in honest discussion. In that case, please bug off and go somewhere more suitable to your designs, like /40kg/.
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>>63456081
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>>63456165
What? No, no, no...you don't understand. Lal isn't an object because she's an android. She's an object because she's a <woman>.
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>>63456205
Ok, I'll admit that you got me on that one, I chuckled heartily. Thanks for baiting with a twist, I appreciate that level of dedication to the craft.
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>>63456205

Fair enough. Objection withdrawn.
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>>63456165
>Amazing then, that they're not actually objects and are considered sentient beings.
They actually aren't. The ruling in Measure of a Man was intentionally narrow. As far as the average Federation citizen cares, stuff like androids and holograms and exocomps are just computer programs created by people, not life, because TNG is set in a time period where that stuff was just beginning to seep into existence as a potential concept, so there's a definite mental block where the average person simply doesn't believe that's possible, and it's only by virtue of being around the main characters every episode that we the audience can take for granted that it is.
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>>63456266
The right to choose presumes the ability to choose which presemes sentience. Objects can't make choices, by definition, but Data *can* make choices. That by base definition implies his personhood.
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>>63456304
Implications have little basis in law if not explicitly spelled out.
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>>63456376
The Federation is the kind of place that would look at such a ruling and say that based on the experiental evidence from those who have served with him as well as the basic rulings already in place that the implication carries the weight of law (and probably gets canonized off screen since not everything needs be on screen). Remember that the Federation believes in the best case situation, it's not a lawyer's paradise. Data is obviously sentient and once his right to self-determination has been defined (as it has been) the rest of it is legal frippery. He's sentient and should be protected accordingly. Arguing that the Federation would treat him as an object when that is clearly not how people in the Federation behave exclusively based on the actions of one jerk-ass admiral while ignoring the actions of *everyone else who serves with him over 7 years of show* indicates that you're arguing in bad faith.
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>>63454396
>Sela
Sela.
Sela
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>>63457051
>The revenge of Denise Crosby
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>>63454206
>I heard Frakes had a bad back
Nah he had a great back.
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It really annoys that these come in 2 different uniform styles. Couldn't they have just made 2 sets? Also when are they going to make a Voyager set? I want a tiny Janeway.
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>>63458278
What is Geordi even doing.
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>>63458337
>"Data, is that fucking Godzilla?"
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>>63438784
It looks like one of Deep Space 9s ugly as hell kitbashes. That is one of the bad parts about DS9, their kitbashes are terrible everytime one is shown, hell TNG crew put more an effort for a ships only seen in their wrecked state.
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>>63458440
>lighting and accenting
It looks a lot like it's from the Phase 2 planning.
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>>63435461
God damn almost every new villain ship we see in Discovery is shit looking. I really disliked the Shivan look they gave to Klingon ships. Even Discovery is probably the ugliest heroship we got. The only ones that actually look good are the other Federation ships.
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>>63458455
Might be, I just guessed it might be from DS9 as it looks alot like the Centaur from that series just with extra gubbins added to it
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>>63458647
For all its flaws DS9 never gave a ship three nacelles.
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>>63435461
Alright I don't really know anything about Star Trek, but I always get really curious when I see threads about it, and my roommate is always going on about how it's the most brilliant franchise around and how it pioneered many real world theories and technologies. My question is, is that like a dwarf star acting as a propulsion agent of some sort on that ship? Again please pardon my ignorance.
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>>63458994
>and how it pioneered many real world theories and technologies.
Not since Next Gen, and it's not a dwarf star, simply an extremely large fusion reactor kept stable by interdimensional fungus energy (I wish I were kidding).
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>>63459080
Yeah I think that's what he said. He's always talking about how things kind of went weird after the one with Picard. And thank you for letting me know. I'm a huge Star Wars guy but I've lately been feeling alienated by whatever the hell they are doing with that franchise. Take it as you will but I think you just converted a Trekkie.
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>>63459105
>Take it as you will but I think you just converted a Trekkie.
You picked a hell of a time to cross the aisle...
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>>63459105
The fungus engine is actually based on a bunch very neat misinterpretations of physics theories regarding the implicit order of the universe, the observer effect, and quantum teleportation. Problem is the writers didn't give enough of a shit to let the science consultants write a couple expository infodumps.
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>>63459140
Oh no. Wait. I'm confused. Is that bad or good? My roommate was praising the newest series. And there is a new one with Patrick Stewart coming out soon? Idk. I know very little about the franchise, like I said, but I was a little kid when the next generation was on TV and I was in the navy so I always get a weird comfy feeling when I see pics of the ships or hear people talk about it.
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>>63459145
I heard a joke one time where when they wanted to write a script for an episode, they would basically just play a game of "ad libs" or whatever and just randomly insert scientific terms into sentences. Is it like that?
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>>63459154
The new series has exactly one good episode, the rest is GoT-wannabe garbage.
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>>63438784
The USS Hutzel. One of several fuck-ugly kitbashes used in the background of DS9. Same process inflicted the Curry, Yeager, Elkans and a few other designs on us.
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>>63459154
You're roommate has questionable taste and the new one with Patrick Stewart probably won't be all that good because Patrick Stewart will be calling the shots. The man is a top actor but seems to hate the aspects of Picard's character that people who like Picard's character like.
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>>63459173
Yeah, pretty much. The show is odd in that the tech-of-the-week is ludicrous nonsense but the basic assumptions of the setting are avant garde brilliance. The Alcubbierre drive was directly inspired by the original series, for example, and cell phones are quickly becoming more and more like tricorders.
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>>63459188
>seems to hate the aspects of Picard's character that people who like Picard's character like
He just thinks it's more fun to be a mr. action man and stopped giving a shit somewhere around season 6.
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>>63459174
>>63459188
Well dang. He's super into GOT. But I think in his defense he just loves everything about the franchise. I tried the MMO about a month ago and I had no idea what was going on. He said the only good thing about it was the ship combat. And really? Patrick will be like directing? Or advising? That is crazy.
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>>63459213
It's weirdly heartwarming to see a new fan spring up in even in the midst of STD.
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>>63459213
>Patrick will be like directing? Or advising?
Neither. He's the entire reason this series exists, which means he'll be demolishing. Also the MMO is crap.
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>>63459186
None of those designs that you mentioned sound like sleek or attractive designs at all. Of course I'm just basing that off of the naming but you sound knowledgeable on the subject so I trust you.
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>>63459224
lol thank you. I think maybe I was just born in this weird time where I'm finally mature enough to appreciate the franchise for what it is, but still to be way behind people that already appreciate it, if that makes sense.
>>63459230
And that sounds scary as hell. Like terrifying. I can't recall any previous examples of situations like that off the top of my head but seriously, why?
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>>63459233
>www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/ds9tm.htm
The only design that people consistently like from this is the Centaur.
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>>63459269
Well I hope you don't hate me for saying this, but after looking up the other designs, the one you linked me is the only good looking one.
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>>63459255
I grew up watching TNG with my dad, who grew up watching TOS with his dad. What I love about ST is it unflappable optimism. Even in the darkest moments of DS9 the show had a weird sense of hope. The JJ movies and STD completely miss that unfortunately.
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>>63459298
I feel you on that. The last I remember was TNG but I was just a kid and most of it just went over my head. I think I just stuck around mainly because my dad seemed interested in it and so naturally I took interest, and occasionally there were badass space battles with lots of action and sounds. I ended up seeing all of the new movies when they came out with my dad and I think he was just as confused as I was. Or maybe he was pissed. I don't really know.
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>>63459192
Yeah he was telling me about the show's impact on culture. Like the multiverse theory, time travel mechanics, interracial relationships, etc...
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>>63459331
Beyond isn't too bad honestly. What's great about ST fans, in my experience at least, is that we like talking about what we like more then shit talking what we don't.
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>>63459380
Man that sounds like such a fanbase. I know that you already understand how toxic and non-understanding other fandoms are so it's amazing to hear you say that. Fuck it I guess I'm a Star Trek guy now.
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>>63459331
The first 2 of the new movies miss the point entirely and try to be grimdark and edgy to appeal to this generation's cynical "look how mature I am" teens and people older than that who still have that mindset. That and it felt and looked like a Star Wars film with extra lens flare and then JJ went off to do the Star Wars films and looking back he was almost certainly aiming for that and using Star Trek as a showcase to impress Mr Mouse.

3rd of the new films was different and was in tone more like a good TOS film but turnout was very disappointing because the people who like the first two all went to watch Star Wars and all the old Trek fans have given up on it. I think Star Trek might actually be dead at this point. At least we will still have The Orville, which despite being made as a parody of Trek seems to be made by people that genuinely like Trek and is at this point more Trek than the Trek that is almost Battle Star Galactica reboot.
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>>63459396
My roommate was telling me that the new trilogy still ties into the original series and that's part of what makes it so different, and brilliant, because it did what Star Wars failed to do, and managed to keep every series canon, instead of replacing already established and beloved material in favor of political correctness. I think I see what he means. And the Orville is the Seth Mcfarlan live action show?
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>>63459390
Yeah, I always enjoyed ST and SW equally, but the fans are what killed SW for me. I got sucked into the vs debates in the early 00's thinking it sounded like fun. I was very wrong, but I always had good talks with ST fans.
>>63459416
As a fan of the Romulans the reboots pain me greatly.
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>>63459428
Yeah man I'm not going to lie, this thread has been far more welcoming and friendly that basically any Star Wars discussion I have been in. And I've never been an actual noob in a Star Wars forum. I can only imagine (from what I have witnessed) the pain that the Star Wars noobs go through. So seriously thank you for not being like that.
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>>63459416
The connection is tenuous at best and shit at worst.

It's set in an alternate timeline.

Romulous gets destroyed by a supernova that somehow threatens the whole galaxy is some never explained way.

Spock throws red space magic at it that sucks the nova into a black hole. and save the galaxy. Spocks ship and a Romulan mining ship get sucked into the blackhole.

Romulan ship emerges about 110 years in the past and kill's Kirk's dad and his ship. This creates an alternate timeline. Spock emerges twenty-something years after the Romulan mining ship that had apparently just been hanging around waiting for him doing nothing for twenty years.

That's where the films starts.

Other than a literally who Romulan and crew, Mr Spock and a mining ship that looks like it's design was inspired by Darth Vader's helmet there is no connection to the timeline as shown in the shows or other films.

>the Orville is the Seth Mcfarlan live action show?

Yes but don't let that put you off, it's better than it sounds and bar one shit episode is actually quite good.
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>>63459428
The Romulans are the cousins of Spock's people? Did they get screwed over? I'm sorry I tried to follow as best as I could but Star Trek loves it lore and it's basically Greek to me.
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>>63459471
The Vulcans were all insane, Surak said "hey let's not be insane," most Vulcans liked that, some didn't and left, the ones who left are the Romaulans.
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>>63459463
lol so I just had my roommate read your post and I think you just schooled him hardcore lol. I've never seen him so lost for words. Like I don't think you understand how hard you just destroyed this dude. I'm not sure how it works in the Star Trek fandom, but in the Star Wars fandom equivalent, you would have just annihilated him.
And yeah I like the Orville, so if you guys do then that's a great sign.
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>>63459478
I just read an article about that. That is insanely simple, but at the same time, brilliant writing and setting. I'm loving Star Trek more and more every moment at this point.
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>>63459471
Yep, they've been getting screwed forever though. All their ship designs and cultural icons were stolen by the Klingons, and their who cultural shtick was stolen by the Cardassians. I do love some Cardassians though.

>>63459517
The last episode of Orville was as ST as ST gets. I'm looking forward to the next season.
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>>63459544
Man you guys are getting me excited to finally start binge watching this stuff. I really do appreciate it. Oh and then after I have to rewatch The Orville because I think I will appreciate it so much more with my newfound Star Trek knowledge.
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>>63459504
I didn't intend to.
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>>63459562
The Prawn and the brown bridge crew dude are both basically Klingons.
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>>63459562
After you've gone through the Trek films take a look at Galaxy Quest.
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>>63459575
lol I didn't mean it like that. What I meant was like, so we live in the middle of nowhere, and we had to drive an hour to best buy about a week ago, and he tried to explain what happened in the new movies using all of these complex plots and scientific terms. But you explained it to me in a way that I understood the plot immediately. I didn't mean to make you feel weird or catch you off guard. I'm just saying that your explanation made way more sense to me, me being someone that knows next to nothing about the franchise. It was a compliment.
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>>63459562
I'm bingewatching TOS now. It's remarkably fun considering how dated it is. It's also remarkable what they let women and minorities get away with considering it was the 60s.
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>>63459589
Oh man I loved that movie as a kid. Thank you for reminding me though, I haven't seen it in a while and I'm sure there's more to appreciate about it the older you get.
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>>63459580
So like space barbarians? Or vikings? That's awesome.
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>>63459618

Mind you, it's still a very...60s...sort of progressive which does result in some odd things like 'No female starfleet captains', which nobody has ever followed since it was mentioned. Roddenberry was always supportive of women getting ahead, so he could watch their ass!
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>>63459618
Yeah like wasn't that part of what made it so magical? Like, a black officer, and an asian navigation officer, and a Russian weapons guy, and a drunk Irish cheng? It was like a realistic vision of the inevitable future that most people were capable of seeing on their own?
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>>63459646
The no female captains thing is bullshit though. In the very first episode Enterprise has a female first officer who takes command of the ship after the captain is captured and no one ever raises an eyebrow at her.
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>>63459657
That most people weren't capable of seeing I meant to say. It was a different time back then.
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>>63459662

Oh it is. That's 90% of the reason it got completely ignored/filed under 'that woman is wrong' (And it helps that she IS in-universe crazy so it's easy to file it that way).
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>>63459657

The interesting thing? In Star Trek, the USSR still exists on earth. Like, this shows up in multiple TOS episodes. They're part of the united humanity though, instead of still being in a cold war.
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>>63459657
Yep. It just suddenly jumped out at me when Kirk ordered Uhura to take the helm. I've also read that they purposely stuck her in the center of the screen so the southern networks couldn't edit her out of the shot.
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>>63459685
I don't think they've ever mention the USSR tho.
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>>63459646
I think this further reinforces your point but isn't the captain of the Voyager a female? But I think I know what you are saying brother.
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>>63459695
>isn't the captain of the Voyager a female?
She doesn't count because she was unintentionally written as, and intentionally played as, a schizophrenic bitch.
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>>63459685
Yeah but I was also talking in like real life though. Like all of this was being presented to real people in the 60's. That's what I meant to post about. Like even with all the "Communist Fear" and racism, here comes this show that shows the future with all of these different ethnic groups and species coming together for the greater good. Pretty brilliant I think.
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>>63459691
>I don't think they've ever mention the USSR tho.

The Naked Now has the starfleet ship they visit having been launched in the USSR. My bad, it was TNG rather than TOS.
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>>63459707

not written as, just played. The writing was unintentionally schizophrenic and the actress went 'fuck it, if this is what the script says I'm playing it the way that makes some sense'
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>>63459689
That's crazy to think about, especially given the timeframe in America when this kind of stuff originally aired.
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>>63459707
Ok thank you for clearing that up. That actually makes the character more believable. My buddy had me thinking she was just out for blood the whole time.
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>>63459712
Given how characters in DS9 keep referring to "the old nation-states" I see it as having been silently retconned away.

>>63459715
That's exactly what I said.
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>>63458278
>everyone with the exception of worf looks like a potato

I’m ok with this
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>>63459718
The fact that McCoy is from Alabama and gets along with her just fine and the black fleet admiral ordering Kirk around is also hilarious given the era.
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>>63459743
I seriously think that like the writing staff must have been behind the cameras during shoots just laughing their asses off about the kinds of reactions the airings were going to get.
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>>63459689

My favourite bit is the interracial kiss. They did multiple takes of it and Shater deliberately screwed up the takes the censors wanted (Where he doesn't kiss Uhura). The director couldn't see Shatner's face from where he was so every single kissless take has him pulling faces at the camera.

>>63459731
>That's exactly what I said.

You are correct! My apologies, I somehow misread it.
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>>63459478
I read that like a Bill Wurtz video
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>>63459743
Don't forget that Dr. Daystrom is hyped up to be the smartest dude since Einstein for like fifteen minutes before he's introduced in person.
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>>63459758
Shatner seems like a genuinely good dude.
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>>63459765
Oh shit, I actually forgot about him. That's an interesting episode. It's amazing how many computers Kirk talks into suicide.
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>>63459775

He crawled up his own ass for a while but he got back out of it later on. It's the nature of being hyped up as the best thing ever, eventually you start believing it. I do wish him and Nimoy had more time to reconcile.
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>>63459790
Oh man. I just read this thing about this supposed beef between them. I had no idea. Nimoy never came around to forgiving him? Shatner seems kinda messed up over that...
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>>63459775

I honestly really want to see the footage of the failed takes because every story of them is amazing. One of the kissless ones has Shatner doing an over the top Captain Kirk IMPRESSION. You know, that impression everyone can do with a full stop between half the words? You've got Shatner doing that.

>>63459819

Yeah, it's really depressing. I think (And this is just some asshole on the internet saying it) that it's got two major causes. The two actors handling their characters very differently. Shatner invested himself so heavily into Kirk that he saw himself AS Kirk. This got him to crawl up his own ass about the character as this wasn't just about his character, this was about HIM. In contrast, Nimoy always had issues about being typecast as Spock and tried to make it clear that Spock and him were two different people.

As a result, Shatner would make decisions not based on 'is this best for the character in a story' so much as 'Is this best for me, Captain Kirk'. This caused issues with the other cast and caused a lot of vitriol over the years. It took a long time for the two to really come to terms with it. Shatner is much more able to laugh at himself now than he used to be and Nimoy embraced being so key to people's childhoods (And honestly grew more and more to resemble his character as he got older and wiser).

However, by that point, there was a serious personal rift between the two that neither quite knew how to fix.
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>>63459880
Man I've only been a Trekkie for like not even 2 hours and I'm already conflicted about crying.
On one hand I was crying from laughter from imagining the outtakes from the captain Kirk scene, and on the other crying from thinking about how these 2 guys with a strained friendship grew to old age and still never got to completely resolve their differences.

Also side note, didn't Nimoy publish a book about how he wasn't Spock, and was in fact his own person?
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>>63459945
>Also side note, didn't Nimoy publish a book about how he wasn't Spock, and was in fact his own person?

He wrote two (And it's the basis behind my thoughts on Nimoy as a person). He wrong 'I Am Not Spock' in the 70s and then 'I Am Spock' in the 90s.
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>>63458337
>"I'm not being payed enough for this."
>"Time to go fuck the Enterprise again"
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>>63456081
>>63456035
>Lal was fucked

Riker was never even alone with her, you can't prove shit
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>>63458337
>this giant hologram of a woman I've never even met is the best thing I've ever done
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>>63459646
>>63459674
"No female Starfleet captains" has always been 100% stupid bullshit. The actual line, "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women" was meant in an entirely romantic context. i.e. Kirk being torn between romance and duty, which is a recurring theme throughout the show. It's basically repeated with Carol in Wrath of Khan. The line was never meant to say that women couldn't be captains.
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>>63458278

What the hell, I want a Worf action figure with real Bat'leth action.



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