[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/tg/ - Traditional Games


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.



File: 70367871_p0.png (1.97 MB, 1200x1700)
1.97 MB
1.97 MB PNG
Paizo Games General /pgg/

How do you like the new Starfinder playtest classes, biohackers, witch warpers, and vanguards?

https://paizo.com/starfinderplaytest

/pfg/ Link Repository (Pathfinder): https://pastebin.com/YLikTing
/sfg/ Link Repository (Starfinder): https://pastebin.com/rg4U6fCa

Old Thread: >>63360025
>>
Could the question for the next thread be "What has your group or GM done to make Golarion (or other setting, if you use one) your own, such as introduced aspects of or ideas from other settings, or fitted in new major races?"

>>63378008
>How do you like the new Starfinder playtest classes, biohackers, witch warpers, and vanguards?
I do not play Starfinder. Is it still shit, or has it somehow improved? Are there real casters/spells yet, and is character creation less bare-bones? What about not-shit ship combat? I was stoked for the release of Starfinder, but Paizo couldn't help but to fuck it up and then smear their SocJus-juice into every orifice, as well. I wanted to love it, and conceptually it had all the pieces to be amazing.
>>
Has anyone created any equipment/magic items/alchemical items/etc. master lists? There's so much stuff in ann the different books it feels impossible to get an overview, and I was hoping to find som tables so I can roll randomly in given value categories.
>>
>>63376435
I really like this idea, because it forms a really cool relationship between Malar and Erastil.
>>
Fellas
Is it gay if you Alter Self into a chick when you suckin his dick?
>>
>>63379056
Certainly not, because you'd have to be fellating a construct with a silent spell metamagic rod placed where an anatomically-correct creature would have its genitals for you to be able to cast it while still sucking it, and as we all know that would be just an advanced form of masturbation
>>
>>63379056
Yes. In fact, it makes you double-fucking-ultra-gay, because you're also pretending to be a girl, when in reality you're just a cocksucking faggot.
>>
>>63378557
The more I read your post, the more I realized how completely worthless your opinions were.
>>
>really trying to avoid dumping Cha for once
>the game refuses to make it remotely attractive, literally showering wizards with ways to steal charisma's shit
>even so far as getting spells that specifically boost not-charisma-based skills
I forgot what made me such a disgusting intfag until I tried to stop, holy shit do I ever hate this.
>>
>>63379334
On the other hand, if you invest you can get Cha to pretty much everything on your character sheet, including on attack and damage.
>>
The Starfinder playtest runs up until January 16. I have no idea how Paizo expects to get meaningful playback for three whole classes in such a short amount of time, during the holiday season, at that.

All three of these classes seem fairly weak to me. The biohacker's injections are not that strong, and the vanguard's entropic pool and entropic strike are quite middling. How is the entropic strike supposed to be better than swinging a regular weapon? The witchwarper is a fragile spellcaster with mediocre control effects, and being a Charisma-based class with only good Reflex looks pathetic alongside the mystic and the technomancer.

>SCIENTIFIC METHOD (EX)
>1st Level
>Thanks to your genius scientific mind, you have a specific way of approaching problems that surpasses the methods used by typical researchers and scholars. If your key ability score is Wisdom, you have an instinctive mind. If your key ability score is Intelligence, you have a studious mind. Your scientific method affects your spark of ingenuity class feature (see below).

>Instinctive
>You can innately see the connections between things and often act instinctively on those connections. Instead of your Intelligence modifier, you can add your Wisdom modifier to Life Science, Medicine, and Physical Science skill checks.

>Studious
>Your mind is a fortress of information that can only rarely be breached. Instead of your Wisdom modifier, you can add your Intelligence modifier to Perception and Sense Motive skill checks and to Will saving throws.

Also, as obvious, low-hanging fruit, how is the Intelligence biohacker not superior?
>>
>>63379413
I don't see how those are fundamentally different. They literally make it so you get to use your key mod on things you wouldn't normally get to.
>>
Repostan

Well, Spheres dropped their Necromancy handbook
Those of you who got it, how is it? I remember seeing one Symbiat archetype in the playtest that looked cool to me, is that swarm Symbiat any good?
Also, does the book introduce any synergy or feats for using Death with Nature? I kinda want to make a Not!Golgari character
>>
>>63379468

The Intelligence version affects Will saving throws.

The Wisdom version, curiously, does not affect skill points.
>>
File: PZO92112.jpg (264 KB, 770x1000)
264 KB
264 KB JPG
Anything fun in the new Faiths of Golarion?
>>
>>63379413
Everything in Starfinder seems weak because the maths is tighter.
>>
>>63379890
Looking at the forums, we've got the younger sister of Achaekek
And here's some snippets from paladin codes

Chaldira
>Stealing is ok. Just don't be a dick about it.

Hei Feng (anti-paladin)
>Its ok to do good deeds for no reason other than that they are good. As long as you hurt someone.

Magrim
>Graves are quiet. If a society's customs say's you should be loud around the dead you must do _everything in your power_ to end that custom.
>>
>>63379890
It's not out yet.
>>
>>63380036
>Magrim
>>Graves are quiet. If a society's customs say's you should be loud around the dead you must do _everything in your power_ to end that custom.
Dia de Los Muertos massacre when?
>>
>>63379413
I feel like in starfinder and pathfinder 2 they're trying a little too hard to make things balanced, to the point of a lot of things coming across as really negligible.

Like, a few of the debuffs from the biohacker give a -2 debuff to a save. That's super lame.
I get them wanting to make it balanced but it's not fun to be quite so at the mercy of the dice, with nothing you can do about it. They're so afraid of things doing too much that nothing does anything.

>>63380026
Or more like, everything in starfinder *is* weak because the maths is tighter.
>>
>>63379890
That’s a fucking strong as fuck Tengu, holy shit
>>
>>63380026
>>63380174
Maybe in the first 3 levels or so, lethality ramps up fast once you get past 3. It's also why they've got the SP pool you can regenerate between fights.
>>
File: phasespider5e.jpg (102 KB, 1000x787)
102 KB
102 KB JPG
I just found out that there are no Sword Spiders in Pathfinder, and they apparent,y managed to fuck up Phase Spiders. Why are spiders in PF shit? It's an iconic type of enemy.

I'm thinking of having my players come up against a spider hive in Kingmaker. Just a random hive in the forest, eating local cows and shit, maybe lead by a (non-PF) phase spider or maybe a large or even huge spider of some intelligence.
>>
>>63380192
Swolengu
>>
>>63380040
Yes it is. It's not out as .pdf until the 12th, but the prints are floating around.

>>63380036
>be a paladin
>by fuckong murdering everyone in the graveyard
Considering that Paladins cannot knowingly violate their alignment, creating a code in direct xonflict sounds.. retarded.
>>
>>63380174
"Balancing" is really gay 9 cases out of 10. Further, balancing in a roleplaying game tends to be white whale, the pursuit of which has the potential to ruin an otherwise good game. It has no *inherent* value in a cooperative game, other than at a very superficial level.
>>
>>63380300
>Considering that Paladins cannot knowingly violate their alignment, creating a code in direct xonflict sounds.. retarded.
It's not against the code if you're not an idiot. Just don't kill people and dismantle the custom through the government/teaching the filthy peasants the proper way
>>
>>63380398
Congratulations, your code has now turned your holy warrior into a local politician because the code of your holy order conflicts with the concept of your character and cannot be resolved in accordance with it without also violating alignment.

It's like they don't think about the consequences of anything they write.
>>
>>63379399
That is just as horseshit and you know it. Fuck, it's tempting to do something dumb like Bard VMC, just to make it feel less worthless.
>>
>>63380653
Except Paladins are supposed to use the laws in order to fix problems that aren't evil monsters attacking you? That kinda comes along with the LG hero who's been training for up to 27 years to uphold the law and protecting the good from evil
>>
>>63380352
Sad thing is people actually believe this.
And no, I'm not going to "debate" you, this is old hat, and you would hear anything I had to say to begin with.
>>
>>63380730
2 levels in paladin and one level in oracle as well as a feat gives +Cha to saves, AC, attack and damage
3 oracle levels can give you +Cha to all Int skills
>>
>>63380795
I know that, I know how you do the dumb bullshit Cha SAD nonsense, I'm talking about trying to play something that doesn't dump it, not "is completely SAD on Cha".
>>
>>63380740
>Except Paladins are supposed to use the laws in order to fix problems that aren't evil monsters attacking you?
What on Earth ever gave you this idea?
>That kinda comes along with the LG hero who's been training for up to 27 years to uphold the law and protecting the good from evil.
Are you one of those retards that thing that "Lawful" in any way relates to legalities?
>>
>>63380352
It's not that balance is wrong, it's just that so many things seem very negligible. In this case, equally negligible.
Ideally, everyone should be equally cool.
>>
>>63380761
>this is old hat
>you would hear anything
What the fuck, man.

Also, he's right. Balancing of this type has a place in boardgames and the like, but not in roleplaying games. It'd be nice, but all attempts at it has been a travesty, to to point where there's really no point to keep trying. It's a bit like communism, in that regard, but some people insist that the last attempt wasn't true balance.
>>
>>63380899
Thing is, the act of balancing is what always makes things feel negligible or same-y. There's nothing wrong with balance as such, it's just that in the pursuit of it for its own sake, games tend to become rubbish.

>Ideally
Well it's an imperfect world, sadly.
>>
Should a GM help players when they fucked up chargen? shouldn't the GM be like a referee, and impartial at every step and if they messed its their fault? Just asking for a friend
>>
>>63380740
You realize that a Paladin is an arbiter of right and wrong that can, should he deem it fitting, punish evildoers as is befitting his faith, including the good ol'anglo-saxon nose-and-ear-cutting-leave-the-bandit-maimed-by-the-roadside type justice and still be fully Lawful Good, right? They're not lawyers, nor are they strictly beholden to the laws of the land. They are holy warriors, not hand-wringing retards. They follow the tenets of their faith, and if the tenets of their faith conflict with their alignment, they cannot be Paladins. They can be monks or blackguards or similar, but not Paladins.

That said, I always thought Paladins should be able to be Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral, as long as they acted in (literal) good faith. Conversely, Blackguards (or "Anti-Paladin xD") should be Lawful Evil/Lawful Neutral. But that's just me. That's not how it actually works, aside from fringe exceptions and silly alternate classes.
>>
>>63380912
I dunno, DnD 4e did it pretty well.
(Unless you consider 4e a travesty too)

Paizo just does it by making all the numbers smaller, so no tactic is all that effective.
I think the issue they were trying to fix was people getting absurdly high numbers in things, just from character building/optimising (done outside of the game) and from stacking equipment/items and pre-buffing (done outside of combat).

Really, they should be keeping situational events that occur during combat effective, but put stuff in place to stop people entering combat having already effectively won it.
So item and dex and so on bonuses to AC should be tightened, but situational things like going prone and taking cover should be important.
People should enter combat with comparable to hit bonuses, but using a bunch of special abilities against targets that are in a really bad tactical position should near-guarantee success.

Although I guess fans of pathfinder/3.5 like the game because chargen is something that you can be good at, so maybe balance goes fundamentally contrary, seeing as it'd invalidate all the effort they spend in the character optimisation minigame if all characters were roughly equally powerful.

>>63381012
The GM is there to make everyone have fun. Whatever that takes.
>>
Does anyone have that picture of Kobold fluff where it talks about pleasuring dragons and there's a censored coke can? I need it for shitpost reasons.
>>
>>63380844
Guess I'm wrong, oh well.
Still, it says nothing about killing people, most can be solved through talking and maybe at worse bringing their 'heresy' to the attention of another group. If you actually need to kill people they're probably doing some demon worshipping shit.
Also not worshipping anti-undead god #263 is an option if you don't want to be the killer of funeral parties
>>
File: 1c9.jpg (98 KB, 600x779)
98 KB
98 KB JPG
>>63381068
Nm found it
>>
>>63380844
>>63380740
>>63380653
>>63380398
>>63381069
>>63381064
>But that's just me. That's not how it actually works
That's a very big thing you need to remember about alignment debates. Nobody actually set down a decided definition of what 'Lawful' or 'Chaotic' means. These arguments will never go anywhere, as nobody can agree on a definition.
"Lawful" and "Chaotic" mean whatever the group wants them to mean. So it's pointless to argue.
>>
>>63381012
>Should a GM help players when they fucked up chargen?
Wtf yes. This is like half the GM's fucking job.

>shouldn't the GM be like a referee, and impartial at every step and if they messed its their fault?
Of course it's their fault, but wilfully ignoring a potential game issue because you're supposed to be some kind of impartial referee is peak autism, and autists make for horrible GM's.

A player that messed something up should be corrected. It *is* the impartial thing to do, just like a teacher corrects a student. At the very least, it should be done in order to avoid a hostile gaming environment.

Why the fuck is this even a question? Why the fuck am I answering this? Is this bait? This question is fucking retarded.
>>
>>63381012
just keep killing his pcs till her learns how to build and engage the game properly
>>
>>63381066
4e is a travesty, though. It would've made a baller boardgame, though.

That said, I don't think it has anything to do with optimization. "Balanced" games are ultimately shallower, with less meaningful or narratively interesting options, much like there are potential game mechanics that cannot be readily quantified (and thus cannot be allowed to exist in a "balanced" environment). I have no interest in optimization, but I like being able to make interesting characters and take interesting (but technically "bad" or questionable) concepts and optimizing them into something that isn't objectively trash.

In a balanced environment, all variables need to be accounted for, which becomes increasingly impossible as meaningful content increases. To avoid this, meaningful content is witheld. If it isn't, the game will inevitably break and become unbalanced, which is a bigger issue in games that purport to be "balanced", because differences more easily become pronounced, since the math is usually tighter and the game is conceptually narrower (to control factors, which is why 4e was entirely combat-focused on a mechanical level).
>>
>>63381098
What are you talking about? Lawful and Chaotic is well-defined.
>>
>>63381237
Well, not really, purely by virtue of the fact that people are arguing about it.
If everyone understood exactly what Lawful and Chaotic meant then nobody here would be disagreeing.
>>
>>63381224
Which is why it's more important to consider if everyone has something interesting to contribute and feel awesome doing it as their characters.

Which is why the Caster Supremacy issue comes up more often than not.
>>
>>63381237
>>63381301
Oh boi I sure do love an alignment argument.
>>
>>63381402
It's just a narrative solution issue. Teleport, scry, fly, invis...

They have too many ways to avoid/solve too many problems.
>>
Which do you prefer?
Characters from a noble or affluent background, or characters from an impoverished or insignificant background?
>>
>>63381450
It feels like the only way to be as narratively relevant as a wizard with utility spells like that without having any magic or roguey-spy skills would be to be in charge of a significant amount of people.
So if you, for example, need a bridge built accross a river, the wizard might cast 'summon bridge', but the fighter would order his men to build one.
>>
>>63381224
>4e was entirely combat-focused on a mechanical level
Nah, no more than Pathfinder is.
>>
>>63381692
Or any D&D.
It had everything all other editions had, save rules about minutiae that until 3e came around, was left in the hands of the DM to rule on.
>>
Looking for Suggestions:

Lvl 5 PF party coming to the end of an act. I want to find a fun unique magic weapon or item to give them. I tend towards pretty steady but predictable loot now I want to give them something huge and fun but circumstantial enough not to be campaign breaking.

What are some of your favorite unique magic items?

Bit of context,
-mini-BBEG is a LE Witch who has enslaved a small village in secret (probably Asmodean but could change that)
-Party is UC Monk, Magus, Investigator, Hunter. Hunter is the only one who really cares about the weapon she's using, and she's got the best piece of loot that's dropped so far so i dont want to do a bow.
-They once spent an entire session trying to make a rope business after looting a Robe of Infinite Twine so nothing they could monetize.
>>
>>63381501
The former tend to be cuter, while the latter are better “kissers.”
>>
>>63381501
Noble, players tend to invest more in their backstory. I like villains to use families as leverage. players with poor/insignificant PCs usually dont bother to flesh out their background, and wouldn't care about NPC family members i ask them to generate or introduce on my own.
>>
How decent is healing the entire party for 16hp/round as a free action?
>>
>>63381544
welcome to pathfinder

army of melee fighters = one full caster
>>
>>63381885
anything's good if it's a free action
>>
>>63381871
>not having your street urchin grow up with a band of other hard knock kids that have forged bonds that are thicker than blood
Why even live with such plebeian tastes, anon?
>>
>>63381910
Silly, an army doesn't equal a full caster
army of melee fighters = a handful of spells
>>
>>63381544
So O/AD&D?
>>
>>63381933
not describing my tastes, just what i've noticed as a gm. I'd love every player to come up with an interesting backstory, preferably ones even more interesting than 'default cliche street urchin'. but the ones who have noble heritage think it may be a free payday at some point in the campaign so they're more inclined to develop that part of their character. again, i could force them to give me a detailed backstory but some players just don't give a shit and won't have fun doing and rule of fun trumps rule of giving the gm story hooks.
>>
File: whywouldyoudothat.jpg (22 KB, 292x302)
22 KB
22 KB JPG
>player rolls perception
>rolls a 3
>GM: "You're 100% absolutely sure you saw something, but as you turn around, there's nothing there. You're absolutely sure something was down that corridor."
>Player: "Eh, it's probably nothing."
>>
>>63381692
You know this isn't true. Why do you feel compelled to lie?
>>
http://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Node%20of%20Blasting
>Add 6d6 damage and staggered to arrowheads during downtime
This spell seems silly
>>
>>63382279
>DM calls a 2 minute break
>call the player out publicly for their shittery, give them a warning that will end with them being kicked if they keep it up
>go back to game, wait for him to fuck up again
>>
>>63381869
>kissing
Gaaaaaaay
>>
>>63382322
You'd be hard pressed to find a DM who would allow you to place it on just the arrowhead when a finished arrow is considered a single item after everything is put together.
>>
>>63382380
Ok, put it on a construct's arrows/bullets
>>
>>63382308
You first.
>>
>>63382466
Put it on your skeletal minions’ arrows
>>
>>63381301
I didn't say that everyone understood it, I said that it's well-defined. Many things that are well-defined escapes the understanding of a great many people. But most of the time, alignment is pretty clear-cut.

And the by far most common issue isn't Lawful vs. Chaotic, but Good vs. Evil, because people have a tendency to pull modernist morality into it.

>>63381402
Exactly. Caster Supremacy is largely a spook as long as people don't play to optimize. Outside of theorycrafting, in actual casual games, caster supremacy is rarely an issue, because it necessitates some degree of optimization, at least one player being a dick, and unlimited practical access to theoretically existing options.

It's amazing how rarely it becomes an issue if someone plays to a theme like the pacifistically inclined healer or the dedicated varisian illusionist.

It's sad that there seems to be such a disconnect between the playerbase and the rules as they are written and presented (RAW autism, order of operations robotically) and the way the game actually seems to be meant to be played (casually non-autistically with a narrative focus). The main issue as I see it is that the game (especially PF; it was less in 3.0 and became a trend in 3.5) almost *demands* build-character premeditation, which really undermines the actual gameplay and further serves to cater to (often practically meaningless or inapplicable) theorycrafting and the "character creation/planning minigame".

The development was, from there onwards, inevitable.
>>
>>63382322
>buy a bunch of 25gp ioun stones
>cast Node on all of them while they orbit your head so you don't have to touch them again
>chuck them all with Telekinesis for 48d6 bombs at the weakest
Only issue is your hit rate would be godawful unless you were a ToTW occultist
>>
>>63382334
Feels a bit over-the-top, doesn't it?

>>63382502
>no u
Jesus Christ, the faggotry.
>>
>>63381066
>Really, they should be keeping situational events that occur during combat effective, but put stuff in place to stop people entering combat having already effectively won it. So item and dex and so on bonuses to AC should be tightened, but situational things like going prone and taking cover should be important. People should enter combat with comparable to hit bonuses, but using a bunch of special abilities against targets that are in a really bad tactical position should near-guarantee success.

The problem with that is that then players would have to think tactically about how to fight and GMs would have to not have enemies use better tactics. Otherwise, eventually but inevitably, the monsters are going to win. Paizo can't have that happening, especially not in PFS.
>>
Good templates for adding Intelligence to Vermin? The way I understand it, things that simply add +X Intelligence won't cut it, since Vermin do not have an Intelligence of 0, they have no Intelligence ("-").

I need to make a Spider intelligent. I could just DM-fiat it and handle it narratively, but let's have some fun here. General horrifying themes for spiders in forests also accepted.

Picture largely unrelated. It's a Tree Tiger, which will be dropping on the players when they're thick in the forest one day.
>>
File: bvnEz2b.png (1.09 MB, 956x1046)
1.09 MB
1.09 MB PNG
>>63382308
Not him, but have you even looked at a Pathfinder rulebook? Any of them? It's ALWAYS 90% combat mechanics, 10% out-of-combat stuff that still has chat caveats attached to them (such as movement and travel rules, which again are also heavily designed to include combat stuff in them), and around a third of those out of combat rules are just advice on DMing and not actual rules.
It's been like that for just about EVERY SINGLE BOOK. Even the Traits section, which is supposed o be just stuff for character fluff making, often has a heavy combat bend to them.

Pathfinder is 90% combat mechanics, maybe 80% if you want to be conservative, and the rest is movement and skill-monkry shit which is made irrelevant by spells. Everything else noncombat is just roleplay which is virtually the same across all systems meaning it's pointless to even bring it up since both 4e and PF can be roleplayed the same way as well
>>
>>63382638
To be fair, your original statement of "lol u liar liar pants on fire" doesn't really deserve a much better response
>>
>>63382363
You don’t like kissing?!
>>
>>63382279
What’s the point in letting a player succeed a Perception Test they should have failed?
>>
>>63382796
>General horrifying themes for spiders in forests also accepted.
Kingmaker also has lots of grassland and swamps, and forest-spiders have been done to death. We need some savannah-pouncers or gelatinous spiders. Let's mix it up.
>>
>>63382600
>caster supremacy is rarely an issue, because it necessitates some degree of optimization, at least one player being a dick, and unlimited practical access to theoretically existing options.
I dunno, it pretty immediately kind of sucks for a generalist wizard to negate the need for you to put stuff into Stealth with a single casting of Invisibility

>>63382857
I think what he's getting at is that his player rolled a 3, and the GM took that to mean he's so bad at perception that he certain he saw something, despite there not actually being any thing to see. Then he gets mad that the player doesn't take this and act interested in the thing that his character is supposed to believe is there, but he knows in reality there isn't.
>>
>>63381885
That's approximately a Mass Cure Moderate Wounds spell, so yeah, pretty good. Free action 6th level spells are nice.

But if you mean whether that's enough healing to be able to carry your party, that depends on how often you can do it and what level you are. Even at high levels, it's not anything to write off as long as you can do it often.
>>
>>63382866
>http://www.arc.agric.za/arc-ppri/Pages/Biosystematics/Spider%20Research%20Centre/Arachnida-of-the-Grassland-Biome.aspx
>>
>>63382803
PF actually has options for non-combat, rather than the free-form RP of 4e, anon. You can (erroneously, in practical circumstances) claim that everything is invalidated by "magic", but at least PF *has* magic, whereas 4e just had Ability 1A, Ability 2B, Ability 7C, etc.

When everyone is a wizard, no-one is, and when everyone is codified and balanced and labeled, nobody is exceptional.

Go away, Todd. I gave up hope long ago. The Codex has my heart now.
>>
>>63382837
It’s too gay, bro.
>>
>>63382795
>would have to think tactically about how to fight
Yeah, rather than thinking strategically about how to build a character who wins fights, or how to set up a situation before the fight starts that you would win. So it's sort of the same situation, as in current pathfinder, monsters are invariably going to win if players make bad characters.

>>63382945
It's really weird how people act like the requirement for magic is for it to be on a spell list, or by limited per day, or have spell levels, or whatever. And that magic isn't magic if it's... limited to encounters or at-wills?
...Or that martial maneuvers become magic spells by virtue of being limited? Or well defined? Or something?
Like, what is the definition of magic you're running on.
>>
>>63382945
>Unapologetically supporting the Ivory Tower
You are the cancer that kills games and causes groups to argue and fight with eachother
>>
>>63382857
The point is that he (the player) *didn't* succeed, and the player knows that he didn't succeed, so he's not going to act upon what he knows (since he knows what his results were) to be misinformation.

God I wish Roll20 allowed blind rolls. Players should be able to make GM-rolls that only the GM (and not even the player that rolled) can see. It would solve so much, including Knowledge/Lore rolls, etc.
>>
>>63382279
This is when you tell your group that you'll be rolling more skill checks for them now, including Perception. It's the same as if a player says "Well you said I found nothing, but I rolled a 1, so I'm just going to tell the other PCs to come look because I probably missed something."
>>
>>63383004
>God I wish Roll20 allowed blind rolls. Players should be able to make GM-rolls that only the GM (and not even the player that rolled) can see. It would solve so much, including Knowledge/Lore rolls, etc.
You can kinda get that by having the GM whisper it to himself, but it's a little awkward to do.
>>
>>63382958
Is it gay to get a smooch from grandma?
>>
File: KmeIFem.jpg (318 KB, 1775x2481)
318 KB
318 KB JPG
>>63382945
I can get 2B as an ability in 4e? Hot damn, I never knew!
>>
>>63382936
>oh look, guys, the entire fields got covered in dew overnight
>that is not dew, comrade

Probably hard to pull off with giant spiders, though.
>>
>>63382945
>When everyone is a wizard, no-one is, and when everyone is codified and balanced and labeled, nobody is exceptional.
So in order for you to have fun, your character must be better than the other player characters?
>>
>>63382796
>Take a tiger
>Swap it's palette
>Call it a tree
Regular tigers are good enough predators you lazy fucks
As fro the spider, awaken it
>>
>>63382945
So hat you're saying is you don't want other characters to be more special than you, that you'd rather there exist disparity such that a party member may be near useless if he's not as adept at optimization games, and you'd rather have mechanical validation for what you can do out of combat than actually trying to roleplay yourself?
The problem is this only works well in single-phase/PvP games. Pathfinder, and tabletops in general, however are group cooperation games that require friends to be able to assist and keep up together at a relatively similar level of power. Heck, standard levels of power is the WHOLE REASONS AND CONCEPT BEHIND WHY THERE ARE CHARACTER LEVELS TO BEGIN WITH! If those levels mean nothing, then what's the point in playing a system with levels?
>>
File: 1365570355648.png (173 KB, 1876x919)
173 KB
173 KB PNG
>>
>>63382984
Nobody I know is acting like that, though. You're being wilfully obtuse or disingeneous if you're pretending to not understand the issue of all abilities being same-y and fantastical in order to reframe the argument and create a strawman. And if that's not what you're doing, you're being retarded.

>>63383001
>I don't understand what Ivory Tower Game Design is
Sure, man, I know, it can be a hard concept to grasp for some, but keep at it and you'll eventually get it, bud. We believe in you. The joke here is that I in no way defended Ivory Tower Game Design. It was a fundamental flaw of 3.0 and it's plagued the game ever since. Monty Cuck was and is a fucking idiot, and Numenera proved he'd learnt *nothing*.
>>
>>63383062
I want to **** 2B!
>>
>>63383135
I agree with you on the fundamental point, but from a game design perspective levels can also serve the purpose of providing a mechanic for advancement. That's really the purpose they're in D&D and Pathfinder for, even though systems like CR presume all levels are created equal. Character wealth is another advancement track.
>>
>>63383184
>You're being wilfully obtuse or disingeneous if you're pretending to not understand the issue
No you're just genuinely confusing.
...And/or me being retarded, your choice.

Like, what is it about special attacks and spells being in a similar format that makes you flaccid? I don't get it.
>>
>>63383043
I think you misunderstand. A GM can make GM-rolls easily, which he sees himself, no issue, no awkwardness. What I want is for Player 1 to be able to make a roll himself, but ONLY the GM should be able to see the roll, not Player 1, not Player 2.

Think of it like the player theowing his dice behind the GM screen. He knows his dies, he knows his modifiers, it's his dies being thrown, but only the GM knows the DC and the results.

Unless I misunderstand you.
>>
>>63383240
I know, it's just that you can sort of get that by just asking for the player's modifiers and rolling for yourself.
It would be better if that was an option though, yeah.
>>
>>63383187
So how do you app as a cute golem girl to PLD2?
>>
>>63383054
Pretty gay, bro
>>
>>63382921
I can do it an unlimited number or rounds per day, but take 10 damage per character healed. Gotta love double life link oracle with gimmicks to boost the amount of healing(a trait and a one level dip into medium).
The only thing I need to do is decide if I want to rely on quicken channel energy to heal myself or something else like Healer's Hands which can actually get quite the healthy boost from the life mystery
>>
>>63383306
You don’t. No vampires and no golems either.
>>
>>63383074
No, it needs to be functionally and meaningfully different, not just Ability 123 with name XYZ, with meaningless descriptive text ABC.

Well, no, it doesn't *need* to be, but it must at least be a possibility.

>>63383111
But these tigers are green and will drop down from trees, anon. Yes it's lazy, but also horrifying.
>>
>>63383188
>I agree with you on the fundamental point, but from a game design perspective levels can also serve the purpose of providing a mechanic for advancement.
Then why not use a system that's more suited for that without having levels, such as a template+feat purchase system? That is to say a system where instead of levels different abilities have different experience costs associated with then and their upgrades, and the players spend their XO according to the abilities and upgrades they want? That way there are no levels or equivalence pretended for then, and the game becomes more honest in regards to its optimization and build requirements to the player, and can allow for greater variation and uniqueness of character builds and capabilities depending on how everything is priced?

That design would actually make the nonsense you're spouting make sense, rather than just sounding like ad-hoc justification for poor design that you're applying to Pathfinder
>>
>>63383341
Pathfinder would really be a lot better off without a class system, since it'd satisfy the build autism that it's known for.
>>
>>63383135
>So hat you're saying
No. You have failed your Linguistics check.
>>
>>63383341
A system like that probably would work better, but Pathfinder never used it because Pathfinder cloned D&D.
>>
>>63383331
It's lazy because that's what every feline does, from panthers to lions to the fucker's housecat
>>
>>63383306
Don't listen to >>63383329, you play an Impossible bloodline Sorcerer and flavor yourself as a golem.
>>
Is there a way to continue taking FCBs from one class while levelling in another?
>>
>>63383361
Knoubuddie cairs gramur nautsee
>>
File: Snake3d.jpg (2.26 MB, 2000x4000)
2.26 MB
2.26 MB JPG
Does Starfinder allow for CQC yet? I know the Pirate theme gives you Sword & Pistol...at 12. But that's it.
>>
>>63383216
>Like, what is it about special attacks and spells being in a similar format that makes you flaccid? I don't get it.
Because they're conceptually dissimilar? As a roleplayer, I really can't get hard if everyone is the same but with different colour swatches. Different things work differently, and I prefer it qhen this is reflected mechanically, because that's all the mechanics are to me, or what they're meant to facilitate, at least; a rules-bound representation of narrative reality/verisimilitude.

Having everyone work the same way and do damage the same way according to the same formula as represented on virtually the same statblocks, with the exact same limitations (whether that makes sense narratively or not) is extremely game-y and feels incredibly artificial, in the same way strawberry flavour doesn't really taste like strawberries at all, or how asparthame can completely ruin an otherwise great drink.

It would've made a great dungeon-delving type board-game, though, like a faux-RPG with open-ended character creation for tactical gameplay (possibly a bit like FFG's Imperial Assault). In terms of fully structured and rules-bound tactical gameplay, 4e could've been a keeper.
>>
>>63383418
I dunno anon, tigers usually creep around on savannahs and plains and shit. Doing a drop-down from a tree in a temperate climate forest isn't something I've experienced before, and it's a good excuse for a simple paint-job in a fantasy setting.

That said, they didn't actually bother to make a statline for these things. It's just a regular tiger, except it gets bonuses in forests instead of plains.

>>63383441
FCB's? Favored Class Bonuses?
>>
>>63383306
You don’t, you make a normal silver-haired swordswoman with a cute outfit and huge ass.
>>
>>63383341
Fundamentally classless/limited free-form systems without levels are indeed genuinely and unironically superior. Unfortunately, that is not the way Pathfinder works, and it has other qualities to compensate.

The perfect RPG has yet to be invented.
>>
>>63383614
>As a roleplayer,
Except isn't that the time where good Roleplaying is even more important? In situations where mechanical depth is underplayed, the onus is on the players to use their creativity and imagination to develop narrative and character derived differences between each character, and also allows players the chance to stretch out and be able to make whichever character they wish thematically without needing to worry about the mechanics dragging their concept down making said character a pain to play rather than rewarding.
It appears to me that you are conflating ROLEplaying with ROLLplaying
Either that, or you're just poor at it.
>>
>>63383680
>normal
>silver-haired swordswoman
>with a huge ass
Pick one (1) and only one (1).
>>
Which race has the most bodacious booty in Pathfinder?
>>
>>63383781
Pitborn Tieflings!
They got Str (for firm buttocks), Cha, and hooves to act as built in heels
>>
>>63383781
Demon-blooded Tieflings.

>>63383758
Silver hair is not unusual in Fantasy, and huge butts are backstory.
>>
>>63383753
No, you're conflating a preference for roleplaying support with a preference for free-form roleplaying. I don't see any inherent value in fully free-form roleplaying, because at that point I am no longer playing a game, I am playing make-believe, with no defined restrictions or relative measurements of what can be considered reasonable. By that logic, the caster-martial discrepancy would actually grow by leaps and bounds, since the ill-defined (or simply undefined) limitations of magic would outstrip and outrun anyone without even basic magic ability at any level.

There are layers of hell, and things are not white or black when it comes to completely undefined parameters vs. pure rollplaying autismo. 4e manages to be the worst of both worlds, all at once, depending on whether we're talking about purely combat aspects or roleplaying aspects, which in 4e are fundamentally seperate.
>>
>>63383677
>FCB's? Favored Class Bonuses?
Yes, it would be very useful for me to get the Halfling fcb for medium, but medium is completely useless outside of the one level for the seance boon
>>
>>63383831
>Silver hair is not unusual in Fantasy
It is unless you (the player) is a faggot, or unless you (the character) is an aasimar or old as sin.
>>
>>63383870
>. By that logic, the caster-martial discrepancy would actually grow by leaps and bounds, since the ill-defined (or simply undefined) limitations of magic
No because the magical abilities players have access to are very well defined along with the martial maneuvers players have access too.
>>
>>63383902
Or you’re playing a Drow, which PLD2 will have. The look works.
>>
>>63383902
>It is unless you (the player) is a faggo
Not really. Silver is the go to hair color for "this guy is evil/magical/altered" in someway. In both fantasy and a bunch of other genres.

I mean even in PF there are like 5 or 6 Iconics with fucking white hair.
>>
>>63383870
>I don't see any inherent value in fully free-form roleplaying, because at that point I am no longer playing a game, I am playing make-believe, with no defined restrictions or relative measurements of what can be considered reasonable.
You seem to be on the wrong board friendo. Here, this place may be more your speed
>>>/v/

>By that logic, the caster-martial discrepancy would actually grow by leaps and bounds, since the ill-defined (or simply undefined) limitations of magic would outstrip and outrun anyone without even basic magic ability at any level.
Now you're projecting and making arguments about stuff that wasn't even the argument or even a thing. Mechanical similarity would include magic, and regardless on how autistically you screech about it "not being magic" it would still count as magic for the purposes of the context by which it is presented in the game regardless of what you thing "magic" should be.
Again, you seem to be conflating your own incredibly flaws and personally-biased definitions of concepts such as magic, role-playing, and such other subjects with the real and broad definitions of those things, which comes across as autistic projection and you just shrieking about "STOP LIKING THING I DONT LIKE REEEEEEEEE"

I'm sorry anon, but you're the one here that has gone full autismo, all because reality does not align with your subjective pre-concieved notions of these topics. So please, stop insisting that a thing is good or bad purely on how it may or may not tickle your subjectivity and personal tastes
>>
>>63383902
Orrrr they’re “different,” which a fat-assed spin2win chick with a claymore would be.
>>
>>63383904
>No because the magical abilities players have access to are very well defined along with the martial maneuvers players have access too.
Now you are restricting the roleplaying options and the circumstances of the freeform roleplaying of 4e to adhere to the combat aspects of gameplay (pure rollplaying) after all, allowing "mechanics dragging [the] concept down", effectively either moving the goalposts or changing the basic argument.

You cannot have it both ways.

And if anything, such a changing of the basic argument only reinforces my earlier point, which you argued against with the freeform/rollplaying dichotomy, namely the fundamental same-y-ness of everyone involved.
>>
>>63384031
Again, you are still conflating your definition of roleplay with the actual one, and you keep making yourself autistically hung up on a subjective definition of what is or isn't magical and also conflating that to the roleplay argument.
Stop it, it's infuriating and removes the good faith of your arguments
>>
>>63383973
>You seem to be on the wrong board friendo. Here, this place may be more your speed
>everyone that doesn't do free-form roleplaying is an FPS gamer xD
Peak retardation. Why are you even on /pgg/? All D&D/PF/SF except possibly 4e is antithetical to free-form larping faggotry. In fact, most actual rolaplaying *games* are.

>a bunch of trite garbage, wilful ignorance and blatant strawmanning
Not sure if you're actually retarded or just pretending, so I guess gr8 b8 m8 I r8 it 8/8.
>>
>>63383870
>I am playing make-believe
Make-believe is fun.
>>
>>63384134
>I have no argument, so I shall scream about strawmen
Holy to quoque, Batman! He's finally snapped!
>>
>>63384134
>All D&D/PF/SF except possibly 4e is antithetical to free-form larping faggotry. In fact, most actual rolaplaying *games* are.
Not really, in fact I don't get what you mean by 4e being freeform. It has very well defined combat rules. Rules for social interaction aren't very indepth, but that's true for D&D and many RPGs that don't set out to model those as a whole. Any RPG is free form to some extent unless there are charts for literally everything your character can do and decide to do such as "if they want a sandwich and if so, what kind?"
>>
>>63384126
>Again, you are still conflating your definition of roleplay with the actual one
I'm not even claiming to have an "actual one", you (apparently) are. I've been exceedingly clear with the distinctions I've used, precisely because a definition of terms is necessary in order to discuss something. You're the one trying to put words in my mouth, when I'm saying exactly what I'm saying, no more, no less.

>Stop it, it's infuriating and removes the good faith of your arguments
"Good faith of arguments" he says, as he tries to reinterpret what has been previously stated, reframe, and strawman. No eice, I'm not falling for the easy ones, anon.

It's particularily funny since you raise no actual argument whatsoever, but are now purely deflecting.
>>
>>63383870
>By that logic, the caster-martial discrepancy would actually grow by leaps and bounds, since the ill-defined (or simply undefined) limitations of magic would outstrip and outrun anyone without even basic magic ability at any level.
This is projection of the highest level. Perhaps you'd understand their arguments better if you didn't try to put words in everyone's mouth?
>>
>>63384156
It is, anon. I do it all the time, mostly in private. Pure, unadulterated make-believe is not what I'm looking for when playing a roleplaying game, however. I want meaningful arbitration and mechanical representation of conceptual constructs, meaningfully differentiated from other mechanical constructs, preferably asymmetrically or adichotomous to some degree (but not necessarily overly so, as to negate all partity,; the ruleset must still be graspable, after all, and subsystems must be able to meaningfully interact).

>>63384217
>someone pointed out my attempts at strawmanning and my inability to actually present an argument after my preceding attempt at repositioning was pointed out
>this is evidence that the man pointing the strawman out is SCREAMING and has snapped xD
Alright, I'll confess, I took the bait. You're successful at pretending to be retarded or whatever. Go you. I'm sure there's a participation award for you somewhere.
>>
>>63384239
Holy shit, he's gone full damage control mode
>>
>>63384355
>my inability to actually present an argument
You're baiting, but I'll bite.
>>63383135
>>63382803
Go back to the original posts, and realise that all you've been doing is making piss poor rebuttals against them and the resulting follow up posts was pointing out how retarded your position and rebuttals are. The fact that you forgot what the argument was in the first place and as such have begun to instead be super defencive of your poor defence speaks poorly for your ability to engage in an actual intellectual discourse
>>
>>63384355
Okay, so you like hard rules for non-combat.
But why is it so terrible to have a system that can have some loose rules (which you say is also fine) for out-of-combat but proper rules for in combat.
Like, why do you feel like arguing about it.

>>63384411
>>63384368
>>63384355
>>63384346
Criticising the other person's criticism of your criticism or ability to argue never goes anywhere and nobody learns anything.
>>
>>63383329
Anon, wasn't there a feat that let a nightwalker bite corpses/unresisting people and suck health out of them?

PLD has no vampires because nightwalkers are vampires
>>
>>63384439
The problem is it's hard to reach any conclusion when the individuals arguing are operating on significantly different understandings of the subject being argued, which in turns necessitates that the basis of the arguments be corrected for standardized understanding and a common ground be established, because otherwise it becomes a practice of arguing apples with oranges
>>
>>63384451
I don’t remember there being feats for Nightwalkers.
>>
Question, since I don't usually follow specific release dates for leaks. About when do pdfs tend to leak on here, exactly, and when's the next set due out? Part 5 of the Runelord return, Faiths of Golarion, anything else?
>>
>>63384233
>in fact I don't get what you mean by 4e being freeform
It is what was described earlier in roleplaying without mechanical restraints, here >>63383753 and it is a common "point" brought up by fans of 4e as a positive, whereas I don't consider such a thing a positive at all.
>Any RPG is free form to some extent
Yes, I mentioned that, too, and covered it here >>63383870

It is true that most RPG's have *some* degree of free-form, as well as *some* degree of rollplaying, but rarely do we see the extremes of either, and certainly not in the same game.

Like I said here >>63384031 one cannot have it both ways in terms of positives in favor of 4e. Either one considers the lack of mechanical support and concept/mechanics interaction a positive, and operate based on undefined principles of free-form roleplaying, *or* one applies the extremely restrictive and same-y combat characteristics of the game also on the roleplaying part of the game, in which case there's really no conceptual freedom of roleplaying from the mechanics after all. The attempt to shift from one argument to another was pointed out here >>63384031 at which point spaghetti was dropped all over the place in an effort to present as little argument as possible as fast as possible here and there >>63383973 >>63384217 etc.
>>
>>63384537
Oh yeah, that too. I see that a lot. Especially around alignment debates. Those are terrible.
>>
>>63384560
Leaks usually happen on the street date. December's street date is the 12th.
>>
>>63384580
The problem is you're basing the idea of a "positive factor" based purely off of your own preference, which illogical due to the subjective bias your introducing into the analysis.
Your entire argument is based almost entirely on the concept of "badwrong" rather than any actual critical analysis of system balance and the importance therein, which is a textbook relativist fallacy
>>
>>63381787
http://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Cauldron%20of%20Fireworks
One of these could be pretty fun, especially if you give em a ton of potions at the same time. You could look at the other cauldrons too. Other than that maybe some gear that gives them access to a Hex or two
>>
>>63384346
>>63384368
>>63384217
>I have literally no argument anymore, so I'll just samefag about nonsense

>>63384411
>Go back to the original posts
Done. I adressed specific, relevant parts of them, and nothing was piss-poor about it, and if I somehow missed something, it is a poor attempt at moving present goalposts by harping about it *now*, and if you failed to address them prior, it speaks poorly of your ability to engage in acktshual intellectshual discourse.

>>63384439
>Okay, so you like hard rules for non-combat.
Eh, probably not, no. I generally prefer rules overall to be clear by otherwise loose. I primarily dislike the seperation of combat and other roleplaying aspects as part of the narrative and the narrative-mechanical interaction. Under ideal circumstances, such a distinction should not even have to exist; even if different subsystems may come into play to a degree, I feel that there should not be a distinction, because ultimately, it's all the same narrative within the structure of the same game. Even the concept of "Encounters" as anything other than an abstract label in casual conversation/descriptive fashion is something I consider deeply artificial, and egregiously so.

>But why is it so terrible to have a system that can have some loose rules (which you say is also fine) for out-of-combat but proper rules for in combat.
Covered mostly above, but also prior. But more importantly, there is nothing "terrible about [having] a system". Like I've said, 4e had some merits, but failed in its delivery, and had it not purported to be an RPG, nevermind D&D to boot, it could probably have done great as a type of board game, and I likely would've enjoyed it immensely.

But if people enjoy 4e, great for them.

>Like, why do you feel like arguing about it.
Why do you? This all started with me commenting on the value (or lack thereof) of "balancing" as a goal in and of itself, followed by a comment on 4e as a travesty. Everything else followed.
>>
Is there a list anywhere of ways to acquire templates without fiat? Stuff like mummy lord and mutant. I could've sworn I saw one on leddit but searching gets me nothing now.
>>
>>63384705
I have never purported to be objective in my judgement or commentary. You've committed one of the worst sins in terms of analysis, which is the intentional fallacy.

That said, plenty of what I've said especially concerning balance is objectively true, but whether one actually considers it a malus or not entirely depends on what you want to achieve and how that lines up with your wants, needs or expectations.
>>
>>63384900
>had it not purported to be an RPG, nevermind D&D to boot, it could probably have done great as a type of board game, and I likely would've enjoyed it immensely.
Well, you know what it is now, and what it is good for, so there's still time to enjoy it the way it's best enjoyed.
>>
>>63384939
>have never purported to be objective in my judgement or commentary.
THEN WHY ARE WE ARGUING AND EHY DID YOU START OFF THIS WHOLE SHIT BY SAYING THAT 4E IS TRASH AND THAT VALANCE IS UNIMPORTANT?!
You started this whole argument here
>>63381224
>>63380352
By saying that "4e is trays and Balance isn't important" and acting like those were objective facts. You started this argument insisting your subjective taste was gold, and now that you've been called out on it your backpedaling and denying the whole thing? You're rewriting your whole argument and shifting the goalposts to the goddamned moon just to save fucking face! And you dare try to deny culpability by shouting "STRAWMAN STRAWMAN STRAWMAN" as off it will forgive your bullshit?
Get the fuck over yourself your self entitled piece of shit.
>>
>>63385172
Anon are you having an aneurysm or something?
>>
>>63383881
Favored Class Bonuses exist to encourage people not to multiclass, so no, there is no way to multiclass and still get your Favored Class Bonus. The best you could hope for is gaining your second class as an additional favored class, and even then you won't be getting the Favored Class Bonus of your original class.
>>
>>63385233
My ability to type is somewhat compromised by how completely livid I am right now
>>
>>63385315
Dude, this is 4chan. If you're getting that mad, step outside and take a break from the internet for your own sake.
>>
>>63385387
This is my break. I'm taking a breather from grad work, writing management plans, and finals.
I unfortunately was not expecting to get pulled in to a retarded argument when I got on today.
>>
File: Erk0LTK.jpg (40 KB, 511x351)
40 KB
40 KB JPG
>>63385315
>>
>>63385172
>I don't understand the concept of statement of opinions unless they're prefaced by (OPINION) and expressly coming as a discrete statement made by a person clarifying that the statement is stated by him or her subjectively
How old were you when your parents discovered you were retarded, and did you get the autism diagnosis before or after?
>>
>>63385492
>I got caught moving goalposts
>Time to defend myself with personal insults
Grow the fuck up.
>>
>>63385416
>I unfortunately was not expecting to get pulled in to a retarded argument when I got on today.
Have you considered not starting retarded arguments? I cannot help but to think that this is a "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"-type situation.

Aside from what I now assume to be your posts (the strawmans, the screeching, etc.), the conversation was pretty good-natured.
>>
Hi, player of the PC who lost an arm and two of his best friends (2 PCs) from the previous thread. GM wants to meet me tomorrow for a solo session. Thinking on making my PC start heavily drinking and avoid every confrontation running away at the first problem, also ignore every plot hook and mission. Any other idea for heavy depression? thinking on pass days on the room doing nothing than sob and stare at the ceiling.
>>
>>63385566
That sounds right for the character at this point, but if you're going to just "ignore every plot hook and mission" you'd better warn your DM first so he knows the session needs to be based around getting your character's groove back. Otherwise, you're wasting his time and your time.
>>
>>63385561
I'm sorry, how is the statement of a subjective opinion moving of goalposts? You were genuinely assuming that a statwment of "4e is a travesty, though" was intended as an objectively true statement of universal fact?

Only a monumental retard would take anything posted on a mongolian cooking forum as truth. But only an autist of truly gargantuan proportions would think that if someone doesn't start a sentence with "I think" or "In my opinion" then it's intended as an objective, undebatable, indeniable truth.

I am genuinely horrified by the thought of lacking such a filter. No wonder autists screech so much. I never thought of it that way. My condolances.
>>
>>63385566
I want to say that that sounds like a good idea, and sure, it might even fit your character, but I cannot help but to feel like you might be considering doing it out of a petty sense of warranted passive-aggressiveness, which isn't going to be productive for anyone involved. It won't make the game fun for you, it'll annoy the other players and bore them, and it'll frustrate the GM. Nobody will be happy, and you'll all hate eachother.

If that's what you're thinking, then you should just fuck off, out of the group, because the GM might be shit, but you're also being a shitter, and in a way, you deserve eachother.

That said, however, it's not inapproproate for the character, but if that is the reasoning - genuinely - then you might want to consider simply retiring the character and turn them into an NPC, and possibly just start over, with the new assumptions and changes your GM suddenly instituted in mind.

Either way, you need to talk to your GM. If I remember correctly, he came up with unexpected changes to the game meta and the assumptions within the game world, effectively fucking you over, which was really fucking uncool and not OK. It might be best for *all* of you to just start over, but it's important that he knows not to do that shit.

I also can't help but to think that it would've been better if your character had died too, because player character death is final in a way losing an arm and two friends isn't, and people that bitch about losing characters are fags.
>>
>>63380300
Doesn't matter if there's prints floating around, almost no-one here buys the books and instead waits for PDFs to pirate.

You're highly unlikely to find someone that both frequents Paizuri General and pays for books.
>>
>>63383585
The upcoming Vanguard class is basically a Brawler/Barbarian/Monk.
>>
>>63385800
>I also can't help but to think that it would've been better if your character had died too, because player character death is final in a way losing an arm and two friends isn't, and people that bitch about losing characters are fags.

Not the one you're talking to, and this is largely unrelated to your conversation with him, but- This line just now made me realize that for the first time that Regenerate is a higher level than Raise Dead. It is, in fact, the same level as Resurrection, which makes some since seeing as Resurrection can knit together a lost body parts like Regeneration while Raise Dead can't. I just think it's odd that the act of pulling a soul out of the River of Souls and stuffing it back into a mostly intact body before resuscitating is less potent magic than regenerating someone's arm.
>>
>>63383585
>>63385947
although, be warned, they're mostly flavoured around weird sci-fi spacemagic, so it wouldn't fulfil the fantasy of being like solid snake, if that's what you're asking.
>>
>>63385947
>Heavy Armor, Shields, Melee
They're TANK. They charge their cast pool by tanking damage.
>>
>>63385927
I know, but it was worth a shot. People hear things.

>>63385969
Yeah, I agree. I've always felt like Regeneration should be a level lower. I think it's interesting, though, because it's probably a legacy from when you were expected to come back maimed and D&D was darker than today.

In modern rulesets, it's a wonder the settings have problems at all, and that sick people or people with scars and lost eyes or feet exists at all.
>>
File: 576.gif (4.91 MB, 640x360)
4.91 MB
4.91 MB GIF
>>63385947
>>63385947
Yeah, but that doesn't let me into knife-gun. That's what I'm specifically looking for. Hence why I mention the Space Pirate theme's Sword & Pistol ability.
>>
>>63385969
Don't worry, if I remember correctly his GM made ressurrection hyper expensive and also not working half the time. He also cucked them with gold so they had to start selling their magic items to survive.

The worst part is that they didn't start like that, those were homerules the GM slowly started to implement without them noticing.
>>
>>63386020
>charge their cast pool by tanking damage
Oh, cool. I homebrewed a mechanic like that for a martial PC in my Pathfinder game. I should look at the Vanguard and see if there are any related ideas I could/should rip off it.

>>63386025
I think it's because people either consciously or unknowingly avoid setting the universe up like a Tippyverse with the logical extremes the game's magic could be taken to.

As for Regeneration, I think it could probably serve to be lowered two or maybe even three levels but have an expensive material component slapped on it. It would become a bit more accessible to PCs that way but still be out of the reach of even reasonably well-off NPCs.

That being said, having played Pathfinder for more than half a decade now I've never once seen a PC need a Regeneration spell. Unsurprisingly, Paizo and *most* DMs are hesitant to inflict amputations on the PCs. Frankly, in some situations losing a limb would be worse for one's adventuring career than death is, since Regeneration being a higher level than Raise Dead means you might be able to find someone who can cast the latter but not the former in some areas.
>>
>>63383585
It always has? Operatives end up with 4 attacks that can be made with any combination of small arms(pistols) and operative weapons(knives, batons, etc.). If you're worried about the enemy getting an attack of opportunity, there is a core ability which lets you give your trick attack conditions to enemies you hit with your full attack(which includes flat-footed thus not allowing them to make reactions). That is high level sure, but also you can just take an operative exploit at 6th level that makes it so your pistol attacks don't provoke... AND if you're hasted you can move up to a dude within your movement speed(operative have scaling speed and can spend exploits to get more) and full attack on the same turn. If you're worried about getting hasted, it is literally an armor upgrade to be hasted like 10 rounds/day(which you can recharge in a couple ways anyway)
>>
>>63386748
Huh, weird. I must've glazed over Operative's Triple/Quad Attack somehow....
>>
I have access to the psychic spell list and spellstrike, any good touch spells?
>>
Is there a way for an alchemist to turn himself into a ghost?
>>
>>63388064
Disfiguring Touch
Excruciating Deformation
Force Punch
Calcific Touch
Stricken Heart
Touch of Idiocy
Vicarious View
>>
>>63388064
node of blasting
>>
>>63388306
Fiendish Obedience(Mestama)
>>
>>63388308
>vicarious view
Shit that is ripe for creeping and stalkers.
>>
Do you need to actually be able to see or hear to see or hear through a scrying sensor? I'm sure that for some spells, like actual Scrying, you do need to because the component is a mirror or pool of water and the stereotype is remotely viewing a scene through the mirror. But for a spell like Vicarious View, there's nothing like that mentioned. Is the information from your sensor just beamed straight into your mind? Could a temporarily blinded mage cast Vicarious View on himself to see his immediate surroundings in his head even with his eyes not functioning?
>>
If you're small enough, do you automatically use your DEX to hit? Or am I crazy? I thought I remembered seeing that in the rules somewhere, although maybe it was just touch attacks...
>>
>https://www.aonprd.com/Diseases.aspx?ItemName=Spellscar%20Fever
The AP isn't up on the trove, is there any easy way to catch this ingame? My other options for getting the template are a 13th-level Dagon worshipper and a 1/1000 chance from Strange Fluids so this seems like the best chance.

>>63388875
Only for CMB, afaik.
>>
>>63388907
e: nevermind, i'm retarded and it seems like this won't be any help
>>
>>63388907
My assumption is that you want the mutant template, so:

Go down to the Mana Wastes and jump into a Mana Well. That might do the trick. On the other hand, that's also stated to be the easy way of being Mythic because it's literally described as "go to a Mana Well" (Find the Path would do it), "step into Mana Well and accept its power" (which gives you Mythic Tier 1).

That being said, Mythic Realms includes a table for potential mana waste and mana well mutant creations that happens along with the Mythic Ascension, and become a mana waste mutant is one of those things. Page 11.
>>
>>63381012
Is it sad that no Gm ever has thrown me a bone when my chars were clearly subpar for the game in question? that the only "help" they gave me was killing me fast so I can make a new one (and actually dooming any fun for me)?
>>
>>63389101
Yeah, that is pretty sad. I try to bring up the weaker characters with special power ups that may or may not be related to the plot depending on circumstances. Is that not the norm for most DMs?
>>
>>63389035
We're not in Golarion. I'm building a stupid character for a one-shot and trying to stack as many templates as I can buy or otherwise acquire onto it.
>>
Level with me /pfg/, how shit is Carrion Crown?
>>
>>63389101
I know it gets thrown around a lot, but have you tried not playing DnD? Or at least not playing 3.pf?

Because the only selling point of the system is there are ten billion splatbooks with which to optimise builds. If you don't want to make an absurdly powerful meta character then any other system would be better for you.
>>
>>63388561
Up to the gm
>>
>>63389834
I'm super biased because I am both lazy and I don't like running undead, but I really don't like it much. Story-wise it's a wild ride of fun stuff, but it drops you off on the front steps of a (possible The) major setting villain and then it's like "IT'S PROBABLY BEYOND THE PCS AT THIS POINT LOL :DDD".
And again, too many undead. If I'd tell my party about the amount of undead, I fully expect them to roll 2 paladins, a cleric and a necromancer.
>>
>>63389834
The first book is kinda fun, don't know about the rest though.
I recommend having a Bard (or someone with Perform/Performance for woodwind instruments), a spellbook-oriented caster, and an Divine caster (preferably one with Channel) in the party

Theoretically, a Witch can fulfill the last two slots
>>
>>63388561
>>63390005
From Divination(Scrying)
>Scrying: A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. The sensor, however, is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus functions normally even if you have been blinded or deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.
>>
>>63390010
>and then it's like "IT'S PROBABLY BEYOND THE PCS AT THIS POINT LOL :DDD".
I mean, TB is supposedly a CR 26 mythic lich whose phylactery is hidden by a goddess, AND entombed with him are armies upon armies of his undead (which are all enslaved to his will because he's had a couple thousand years + his mythic lich abilities to permanently raise/loyal them all), AND as soon as he managed to get out he can go and fetch his OTHER army of hundreds to thousands of undead, which is parked in the Cenotaph waiting for him to open the doors for "it's party time bitches".
>>
>>63388064
Shamefully Overdressed
Problem is it has both a range of close and a target of creature touched, but isn't explicitly a ranged touch attack
>>
>>63389834
It's pretty shit from start to finish, and is generally uninspired. Definitely on the low end of campaigns, although I wouldn't rank it as the lowest (that dubious honour probably goes to, of the ones in the PF system, either Hell's Rebels, Council of Thieves, or Shattered Star, though I'm not a fan of Ironfang Invasion, War for the Crown, or Iron Gods either).
>>
>>63390010
I might need to elaborate on some of that. I don't like the fact that all the material exists for running Tar-Baphon as a really nice and fitting final boss for the campaign, but it requires a lot of homebrew input because you end the campaign on a way too low level to attempt killing him. The campaign's final boss fight is cool, but I don't want to kill some lich's dragon, I want to kill the evil lich. If your DM is willing to put in the effort of filling in the gaps, it could make for a cool campaign.

>>63390104
I know, but it would be cool if you could actually run the "Continuing the campaign" without running 6 levels worth of homebrew.
>>
>>63390135
Well, the last Pathfinder AP (before PF2) is Tyrant's Grasp and will go from 1st level to 20th while involving probably fighting/defeating/killing/banishing Tar-Baphon at the finale.

So if you're willing to wait until about September next year or whenever it is, you'd be able to just run Carrion Crown and then from there, with a bit of homebrew fiddling, make a jump over to parts 4 through 6 of Tyrant's Grasp.
>>
>>63390132

Not Wrath of the Righteous?
>>
>>63390187
WotR isn't bad per se, the concept of it is fine (it doesn't have any more fuckups storywise than most Paizo APs), gives you your classic crusade-against-evil story. It's just completely mechanically fucked because Paizo has no idea how to balance the system and as a result their design methodology for Mythic amounted to shitting on a page and then making childish scribbles with what came out.
>>
>>63390164
Yeah I am eagerly awaiting the AP. Not necessarily because I want to run Carrion Crown or that AP specifically, but I love more info on doomsday stuff in the setting.

>>63390187
WotR mainly suffers from being disgustingly easy. Even without accounting for mythic, it's in general a few CR under what's normal for APs on any given level.
>>
>>63390228
Yeah, a non-mythic party with both sides of their brain working can almost certainly get through the entire AP just fine. They might run into a bit of trouble with some of the "if not mythic then fuck you" stuff, but there's literally a feat for that in Mythic Companion (for a feat you count as mythic for the purposes of spells/effects/etc/), so the only real issue is how they'd be able to handle the battles in maybe the last quarter of part 6, that might need a bit more experience/resource management.
>>
>>63390271
Although I haven't used mythic rules yet myself, I planned on homebrewing out the whole "Fuck you I'm mythic rule" if I ever were to run it. I'm not sure if that's one of the things covered in the Legendary Games book that fixes mythic rules, but I also plan on using that.
It's sad too, I really liked the idea of mythic levels being levels of coolness parallel to your normal ones, but as is the system just breaks the game unless you are fighting mythic creatures and I don't want to trivialise non-mythic encounters.
>>
>>63390369
It breaks it if you're fighting mythic ones as well, as I learned when my optimised mythic players seriously considered slaughtering Nocticula in book 4 (and probably could have done it) blew Baphomet apart in book 5 within two rounds, and then strolled through book 6 half-asleep and without bothering to use most of their abilities.
>>
>>63390433
That's what I'm worried about too, my players are of the type that lock themselves up for 2 days when I tell them to make a new character. Three of my players live in student housing with me and I know for certain all of their characters see well over 15 hours of research. I am able to handle their bullshit with all of the books in play, but I'm not sure I can even run a meaningful campaign anymore if I include mythic rules. These people also like to be challenged to the maximum in combat, even though they thoroughly think they just want their character to be strong, so I think I'll just shield them from those mechanics until I've looked into how to balance them well. For their own good, of course.
>>
>>63390549
>These people also like to be challenged to the maximum in combat
Then they will not enjoy Wrath of the Righteous. Perhaps, if you rip out Mythic entirely, make some adjustments to the fights, cut down or outright remove the ridiculous number of artifacts (major and minor) that the PCs are saddled with (it's something like 3-4 per person by the end of the campaign, from memory), and then run them through it, they might have some fun. But otherwise, you're screwed.
>>
So, question about a point of the Golarion setting, since our group is going to be playing through the latest Runelords AP and previously finished the Shattered Star one.

Why did the Runelords bother with all those ridiculously convoluted methods of avoiding a couple of asteroids? They were all immortal wizards with 9th level spells, all they needed to do was plane shift or gate away, or stay in a demiplane for a while, or just go to another planet (interplanetary teleport is a thing), or whatever. There they could put their feet up, catch up on some reading, wait for the chaos to die down, and then come right back. They don't need any of the "you must enter a runewell on a private demiplane, set up a magical timer, wait for a certain amount of life energy to accumulate" or whatever Karzoug's one was, for example. It could have literally just been "go to demiplane, chill for a century or two, research new magic, then leave" and he would have been far better off.

I don't understand how for supposedly being all hyper-intelligent immortal wizards (some liches and some mythic, too) with plenty of knowledge of extraplanar shit, that it did not occur to them to just leave for a little while and then come back once the madness was over. And as a bonus point, if they did then they could be assured that basically nothing else on the planet would be able to face them when they did, with the possible exception of Jatembe (another immortal 20th level wizard, plus lots of mythic) and his Ten Magic Warriors (possibly/probably also mythic). And Jatembe is on another continent anyway, nowhere near Thassilon.
>>
I'm running a custome game and plan on including some extra races, what's a good max RP to use as a guide line?
>>
>>63391535
Don't trust the RP system, it's broken. Just compare the race with humans since humans are the strongest PC race outside of the monstrous ones
>>
>>63391602
That sounds like a lie, why are humans better then all the actually interesting races?
>>
Is there an easy way to be able to take 10 with UMD checks without taking a prestige class?
Also is there anything stopping UMD with magic weapons?
>>
>>63391624
Outside of edge cases like the occultist, humans are always rated top tier across all classes because the bonus feat speeds up the time it takes most builds to come online and they're just solid mechanically from options to get +2 to two stats of their choice or simply more skill points which lots of classes are starved for. They can also take racial specific things with racial/planar heritage.
>>
>>63391624
Because they aren't interesting. There genericness is why they have amazing and versatile race features like "+1 skill rank for whatever you want because humans can be anything", "+2 to any stat you want because humans can be anything", and of course "whatever bonus feat you want because humans can be anything".
>>
>>63391624

Getting an extra feat at first level is an extremely potent ability, and while Skilled isn't super-powerful it's certainly useful, particularly for builds that don't prioritize intelligence. Humans are an excellent choice for literally every class in the game, which isn't as interesting as the various racial strengths and weaknesses of the others but has a value all its own.
>>
>>63391201
If you want the meta reason, it's because one of the few old tropes Paizo loves is "an ancient evil is sealed away and awakens in the current age" because it gives them pre-packaged villains to write books about that are obscenely strong while simultaneously explaining why they weren't causing problems for everyone 5 years ago.

The best in-character reason I can come up with on the fly is that they probably calculated exactly how much destruction those asteroids would wreak and figured it would be better to lock themselves up for a few millennia while society rebuilt itself, and they were so arrogant that they assumed that they'd easily be able to reconquer everything once there was things to conquer, kind of like the Necrons in 40K.

>>63391624
There's also the fact that humans are discriminated in exactly 0 regions a player would care about or likely play in.
>>
Question: Are abilities which replace bloodline powers themselves bloodline powers? What happens when an eighth level Razmiran Priest takes a level in Dragon Disciple, would Blood of Dragons give you Razmiran Channel?
>>
>>63392619
I think it would depend on whether the ability is framed as something that replaces the bloodline or just that specific bloodline power. I would probably allow that particular situation in order to make Dragon Disciple more robust by advancing your archetype features. It doesn't have much going for it to begin with. I expect I would be in the minority for ruling it would work that way though.
>>
>>63390132
Giantslayer is also total shit
>>
>>63390010
If the party don't get the hint from the name of the game, they won't get that they should bring 2 paladins and a cleric to an undead-heavy campaign anyway.
>>
>>63391602
The RP system is fine if you use it as a guideline. He didn't say he'd let players construct their own races using RP, he said he's including some extra races.

Immediately assuming he's going to be optimizing RP is ridiculous.
>>
>>63393260
If you're going to put points in Sense Motive every level anyway, no. If you are, it's really still just +1 Skill Point/level *plus more*.
>>
>>63385677
>>63385800
Yeah, I decided to step out of the game, I wasn't having fun and I lost any enthusiasm. Funny part is that after telling this to the GM he told me the other two players already did the same and that's why he was going to run a solo game while trying to find new players. I'm kinda happy he's out of players.
>>
>>63392009
Xanderghul did calculate it. He came up with a figure of 100 years, and the guy was supposed to be a level 20 mythic 10 otherstuff 2 or 3 top tier.

It just doesn’t make sense. That’s turning into a long weekend for somebody who had rules for 1000+ years before the event took place.
>>
>>63393996
>He came up with a figure of 100 years, and the guy was supposed to be a level 20 mythic 10 otherstuff 2 or 3 top tier.
Do remember that the aboleths who drew the meteor down, aboleths who have millions if not billions of years of knowledge and access to arcane rituals beyond the imagination of any and all other races, also miscalculated the impact that the meteor they pulled down. Mostly because they didn't know that it had the Starstone and Mhar in it and that it would drag another meteor down with it. The meteor nuked two gods. Fucking gods. Nobody could see that coming and that's why Xanderghul, the strongest and most influential runelord, made a mistake in his calculations.
>>
>>63393960
It was a shit move, changing things in the middle of everything like that, so he probably deserved it. But now he'll probably never improve, sadly.

>>63386170
I think I'd lower it a max of 2 levels, except for druids. It's really fucking weird to me that Druids do not get it until two full spell levels (lvl 9) after clerics/oracles. In my mind, they should get it a level prior, if anything.

But I could see it at lvl 4 for druids, with lvl 5 for clerics/oracles, costing about ~1000gp's worth of goldsworth and rare herbs (for druids) or crushed gemstones (for clerics/oracles).

And then maintain a lvl 8 (for druids) and lvl 9 (for clerics/oracles) greater version that is identical but free.
>>
>>63394070
Not him, but change is not bad, what's bad if fucking over your players for no reason but to serve your ego
>>
>>63394012
Well, it only nuked two gods because one put the moon she was god of in between the missile and the planet, died, and the other cast a spell to nullify the magic of it and also died from the effort. Less nuking, more self-sacrifice. In either case though, it still wouldn’t explain the inability of the Runelords to just go off-plane for the duration and check in with divination magic until it was good to come back. It’s just so utterly simple.

I get the meta reason, easy plot line. That doesn’t make it any easier to swallow when I read the next Runelord waking up and find that they’ve done something retarded like turn their brain off for 100 years and as a result minions screwed up their awakening chance. Or trapped themselves in a gem that had to have special rituals performed over it by loyal followers to be released. Or going into a slumber that requires a whole bunch of blood sacrifices to come out of. And so on. Great for a novel or story, maybe. Not so great for PF.
>>
>>63394079
It's not about change. It's about changing stuff in the middle of the game, fucking your players.
>>
>>63394092
So you'd rather have them just wake up after 100 years and either dominate the world and thus nullify all other threats on the planet and make it all about Runelords or just have them bum around for 10,000 years like Sorshen did?
>>
>>63394117
No, there are other ways. For example, they go and conquer another planet and have been ruling there for the past 10k years. Or perhaps they have been seeking to ascend to full godhood in a private plane, which would take time. Things that aren’t “ancient Evil takes a nap in unnecessarily convoluted way” 7x in a row.
>>
>>63383306
Didn't one of the player characters already turn into a cute golem girl in the first PLD?
>>
What feats would you recommend to a Slayer/ (1) Alchemist - Switch Hitter with low char and high str?
>>
>>63394310
I wanna FUCK that girl
>>
>>63394967
I wanna FUCK some new memegames
>>
>>63381122
>>63381066
Kek, literally in another thread people were saying DMs should be arbiters ignoring everything and only caring for the plot and how the GM wants to plot to be treated
>>
>>63395211
convince Vult's players to let him open the waiting room
>>
>>63395292
I said memegames
Plural, nigga
>>
>>63395253
I've been in all the lat couple of threads and I don't remember anything like that. Are you sure, you're not just autistic and thus overinterpreting, unable to read implications?
>>
>>63393392
So as a guideline for already made races what's a good score to work with, I ain't including centaurs as anything but NPCS or encounters
>>
>>63395253
No, that thread said the DM is neither friend nor foe, but a neutral arbiter and representer of the the World the pcs are in.
Nothing about "plot" was brought up save by idiots afterwards.
>>
>>63391535
Design for 11, aim for a maximum of 15.
>>
>>63396052
Thanks, that really assures me about some stuff
>>
>>63395908
I'd say 15 (Aasimar are 15). No less than 10 (Ratfolk are 9), no more than 20 (Ghoran are 19).

I'd say that's the span of "normal".
>>
>>63396083
No less? Are low RP races imbalanced too?
>>
>>63396427
Not really.The only truly bad race is kobold while others are specialized at worst.
>>
>>63396427
No. You can make a build work with just about any race, really, depending on the build. Even the big bad chad dick-swinging Azlanti human isn't all that overpowered past level 5.
>>
>>63396511
Kobolds have their wealth of feats and other options to make up for their shittiness
>>
>>63396631
Cool, I was considering a refluffed version of monkey goblins with the saurian creature template to make them more serpent like then monkey like
>>
>>63397032
Having played as a kobold cavalier I had fun with this, riding a young allosaur Lance charging topped with teeth and claws was a deadly combo
>>
>>63396427
>No less? Are low RP races imbalanced too?
Well, I mean.. I want to say that they aren't, but they may be, but just very little. It really depends on what you get out of it, because RP's aren't an exact science, and just like feats, not everythijg is of equal value.

But if I was trying to make base races for a setting, I'd go for ~15, because it gives some leeway, and I wouldn't oprimize, I'd just go for interesting stuff.

If you feel it is appropriate, by all means, go above 20 or below 10, I just meant it as guidelines.
>>
>>63390187
Wrath of the Righteous gets shit on more or less purely for political reasons.
>>
>>63397375
15 feels like a good sealing for my selection, I won't have a floor, but I plan on not going too crowded
>>
>>63397435
That and late game, books 4 through 6, is imbalanced beyond any reason.
>>
>>63397435
I want to crusade for justice and save Avistan!
>>
>>63395908
RP values are kind of meaningless. What you really want to avoid are sets of abilities that makes a race too purpose-built. You'll want to avoid races that are a great pick for one specific class but aren't particularly desirable for anything else. The biggest thing to be mindful on this front is ability score distribution. Another thing to keep an eye out for are abilities that are largely broken in and of themselves regardless of their RP cost. Things like the immunities to a wide swath of options that come with typing outside of humanoid and outsider.
>>
>>63397508
So lizardfolk and goblins are pretty safe picks?
>>
>>63397435
I would have thought the Taldor AP got it worse than Wrath did. That was a shitshow from start to finish.
>>
Trying to figure out how to continue advancing monk unarmed damage past level 20, it follows the normal damage die steps perfectly fine up until 20 where it's suddenly 2d10
Should I just follow normal damage progression of 2d10 > 4d8 > 6d6 > 6d8 >8d6 and so on?
>>
>>63394419
Bushwhack
>>
>A greater ring of revelation contains a revelation that requires the oracle to be 7th level or higher.
>A superior ring of revelation contains a revelation that requires the oracle to be 11th level or higher.
What's the point of the superior ring if the greater ring qualifies for those revelations as well?
>>
>>63398775
That's probably a mistake in the writing, since it would just be silly for it to work that way.
>>
>>63398775
Higher variables.
>>
>>63392009
>There's also the fact that humans are discriminated in exactly 0 regions a player would care about or likely play in.
I hate this.
>>
>>63399064
Play a Sczarni, then.
>>
>>63399097
No thanks.
>>
>>63399064
What is Irrisen.
>>
Without looking through all of the innumerable traits and racial abilities in PF, is there any way for a human to have the ability to channel energy (even if it's just 1d6/day) without actually taking cleric/oracle levels or a feat investment? Or do I need to get lucky and roll on the variant aasimar abilities table with an aasimar race character instead?

I'd like to get Channel Smite and then Guided Hand for wisdom to attack with a favoured weapon (for reference, the character will also be the Sorcerer bloodline that uses Wisdom to calculate spells, so I want to narrow everything down into one stat if possible), but I don't want to mess about with any multiclassing if I can avoid it, and variant multiclassing is off the table.
>>
>>63399064
>>63399160
What Kyonin and the Darklands? Or any isolationist human community that would discriminate against humans of other ethnicities?
>>
>>63399160
Technically, it's only non-Jadwiga/Baba Yaga descended humans who are discriminated against in Irrisen.
>>
>>63399211
Why do you want guided hand on a sorceror anon? You won't be able to hit normal ac past the first couple levels unless you do str sorceror memes and you'll always hit touch ac regardless, so the only reason would be flavor. Honestly just ask the gm to give you that aasimar ability. I'll spend a few minutes checking for something though cause I'm nice
>>
>>63399332
Did you not read his post? He's trying to go as SAD as he can off Wisdom, so he's got that Empyreal Bloodline for casting off WIS. Guided Hand means WIS to hit, so it can actually make it possible to hit reliably if you're properly buffed.
>>
>>63399211
Just pick up Erastil's Blessing for Wis to attack.
>>
>>63399390
I read the no multiclassing part and thought he was going straight sorceror
>>
>>63399322
Except it's all humans except the Jadwiga currently in power because it's a common trend for the current ruling family to take an icicle and fuck the shit out of the previous families for fun. So yeah, all humans you'd probably let your players play.
>>
File: Spoiler Image (105 KB, 400x345)
105 KB
105 KB JPG
Don't hide it from me, /pgg/.

Tell me what languages do you prefer to use to fill up available slots on your characters?
>>
>>63399439
If memory serves there's a feat or option in one of the Companions, probably People of the North, to play one of the current ruling Jadwiga, just from a lesser branch of the current queen's line.

Would fuck you hardcore if you played Reign of Winter with it though, since Baba Yaga might just take you and suck out all your essence.
>>
>>63399391
This, Guided Hand is a mess and the Guided enchant is 3.5 sadly
>>
Any flavourful oracle curses for a monk?
>>
>>63399650
Haunted
>>
>>63399615
She only does that with her direct daughters though. And that trait is just "a" failed winter witch, not "a failed winter witch part of the current ruling family". You just need their approval to be an official winter witch, not be a jadwiga, see Radosek for that.
>>
>>63399650
Possessed. Meticulous regiment to keep that other spirit in check.

Lame. Training all life to over come a physical disability.
>>
>>63399591
Draconic's the usual one, but I always go for Vegepygmy. Spoken by nobody, including the vegepygmy themselves, but it's there just in case I ever find some. Or if I use Sporecrafter's Kindness.
>>
>>63399591
>not being an aasimar high-INT wizard with Truespeaker and taking Linguistics ranks
>not being able to speak Common Taldane, Common Tien, Common Osiriani, Undercommon, Elven, Dwarven, Sylvan, Draconic, Druidic, Thassilonian, Azlanti, Aquan, Auran, Terran, Ignan, Abyssal, Shory, Aboleth, Celestial, Aklo, Cyclops, Drow Sign Language, Giant, Gnoll, Jistka, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal, Androffan, Elder Thing, Ancient Osiriani, Necril, Sphinx, Treant, Vegepygmy, Tengu, Protean, Flail Snail, Polyglot and that point on the character sheet is where the GM actually let me write "fuck it you have permanent tongues" because he couldn't hear that I literally was learning a language called "polyglot" without laughing
>>
>>63399591
After taking campaign important ones I usually start from infernal, abyssal, celestial, aklo, sylvan, elemental languages, nekril and after that region or race specific languages as I see fit.

>>63399893
>not being autism central
That's your post right there.
>>
>>63399650
Shattered Psyche for similar reasons >>63399836
>>
>>63399802
Fun fact: Baba Yaga actually doesn't need to drain the vitality of her daughters to keep herself young. She doesn't actually give a shit about being young. In fact, she could abandon Irrisen and be completely fine.

She's just a completely evil old crone who does it for shits and giggles because Irrisen is a giant failed experiment.
>>
File: aku questions this.jpg (5 KB, 251x189)
5 KB
5 KB JPG
>>63399893
>flail snail
>mfw this is actually a language
>>
>>63399923
Nope. She doesn't care about being young, yes, but she drains them to remain as powerful as she is without needing some other complex method, but it's just a convenience. Golarion, however, is not some failed experiment because the Winter Palace and by extension the Winter Collectors do serve a grander purpose, which is among the reasons she specifically will never end the summer in Irrisen.

Source: I ran Reign some time ago and tore through the last book fifty times because fuck that fucking stupid island bit in the middle.
>>
>>63399960
>>63399923
I meant "end the winter", not summer.
>>
>>63398168
Why?
>>
>>63399986
I'm able to qualify for Monastic Legacy without monk levels and already have monk unarmed progression
>You gain the unarmed strike damage of a monk of your oracle level. If you also have monk levels, those levels stack for the purpose of determining your unarmed strike damage.
DC 23 UMD check to emulate the Still Mind class feature and handwraps with Training(Monastic Legacy)
>>
Would you allow a player to be an Azlanti human? I would, but none of my players have been clever enough to ask.
>>
>>63400166
An azlanti human is a human with +2 to all stats
>>
>>63400166
Sure. They're time in stasis has caused your body and mind to degenerate somewhat, so they still use normal human stats.
>>
>>63399960
>Golarion, however, is not some failed experiment
It is, though. Baba Yaga is stated to be bored with Irrisen because with one (two at the end of Reign of Winter) exception, it hasn't really done what she wanted it to at all.

>Baba Yaga considers Irrisen an experiment in power, one that at first held her interest greatly. However, as time wore on and the subjugated Ulfen were unable to muster the power to overthrow her daughters’ rule, Baba Yaga grew bored. She was baffled why so few—neither her daughters, nor the oppressed citizens—rose up to break this chain of tyranny. After the reign of her first few daughters, Baba Yaga only returned to Golarion when it was time to crown a new daughter queen. It was this boredom with Irrisen, and her lack of attention on her experiment there, that led to Baba Yaga’s entrapment at the hands of Queen Elvanna and Rasputin. Nevertheless, Baba Yaga is somewhat proud of Elvanna for her attempted coup, considering it by far the most ambitious rebellion since her ninth daughter Tashanna’s uprising—not that Baba Yaga believes that it ever had a chance of succeeding.

>she literally creates Irrisen as an experiment in seeing whether she can create what amounts to adventurers to overthrow the evil rulers

There's a joke in there somewhere, I'm not sure what it is, but it's there.

And regardless of what the queens might grant her by draining them, her own background says explicitly that she made herself immortal long before Irrisen was ever even a consideration for her, and she never had a problem before she made it.

Is it weird that I found the Elvanna on the last part of the RoW AP to be actually quite attractive? 10/10 would assist in overthrowing evil old hags if offered.
>>
>>63400166
Yes, if they asked and had a good explanation. +2 to all stats matters much less after around level 6, and I usually start my players at 3rd anyway.
>>
>>63399591
I always grab the language from wherever I am from, and then I grab the dominant language in the region, and from there on, it's a toss-ip between languages near my homeland and languages near the region of play. And if I'm an arcane caster, I usually try to grab draconic, and then possibly the elemental languages. If I'm a Cleric or Paladin or just an Aasimar or Tiefling, I usually go for Celestial+Infernal+Abyssal.
>>
>>63400166
Yes, in Starfinder.
>>
>>63399591
>Common
>The native Human languages
>Draconic
>Sylvan
>Celestial
In that order, so typically my big brained dorky pants characters will only end up with, say, "Common, Ulfen, Varisian, Tian, Draconic."
>>
>>63400200
I am well aware of that. My players are probably not.
>>
>>63399591
Once I fill up on useful languages, I like to take random obscure languages like Sphinx, Boggard, and Mi-Go. Sphinx is usually just fluffed as speaking in cryptic bullshit and riddles though. Also Boggard did come up once and the DM was really surprised because he completely forgot I took it.
>>
>>63400549
I'm not even sure I'd let a player grab boggard unless he had a good excuse on creation. How'd you even learn that shit? Same for Sphinx, really, although I could at least see someone learning that during their arcane or religious studies.
>>
>>63400908
books
>>
>>63400938
Who wrote a book on Boggard?
>>
>>63400908
We did have a good excuse as boggards were a somewhat common nuisance in the area the campaign was in, but Sphinx was really just for shits and giggles. But those are the two you question, and not Mi-Go? Not the literally alien language used by sneaky space mushrooms from Lovecraftian fiction?

My character couldn't even actually speak Mi-Go, since IIRC it's only partially verbal but also includes visual- and even scent-based components that he was biologically incapable of reproducing. But he could understand it. Never came up. Really only took it because at that point I realized the PC was as smart as a Mi-Go (25 INT) and I started considering the fact that it meant his mind was probably pretty alien in its own right.
>>
>>63400993
>I realized the PC was as smart as a Mi-Go (25 INT) and I started considering the fact that it meant his mind was probably pretty alien in its own right

This is why I find it more difficult to play characters with an intelligence score that high. Shit, Reed Richards probably only has a 30 at the most, so the ramifications of high Intelligence scores feel like the proverbial elephant in the room.
>>
new thread
>>63401059
>>63401059
>>
>>63400993
Sorry, I missed the Mi-Go somehow. Also, I didn't realize what it was, which likely contributed to my blanking.
>>
>>63401144
That's fair and I kind of figured that was the case, so I apologize if I was too abrasive. I just thought I ought to clarify what it was since you didn't seem to know.
>>
>>63399591
Depends on the setting and character. I like being able to talk to the normal people they might meet more than speculative sphinxes and things, though, so I’m more likely to grab Elvish or Kelesh vs something weird.
Though Draconic and Giant are nice because somewhat common people like kobolds and ogres speak them, and then Big Deal People speak it, like Dragons and Storm Giants speak them too



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.