>>10799259I think we can't do it by 2045. Not watching the video. Fuck you for just posting a video. TEXT ONLY PLEASE!
>>10799259Digital immortality requires solving problems that would allow biological immortality. So bio is a much better bet, unfortunately. We will probably have the technology to do crazy stuff like MRI scan synapse connections and create backups that can direct the growth of new brains long before we have a complete enough understanding of the brain to simulate it digitally. Short term we're looking at body repair. Read: SENS
>>10799673no it doesnt?
>>10799679>Detailed, mechanistic understanding of biochemistry and cell biology that underlies neuronal function.Required for even an approximately accurate simulation. Coincidentally: a primitive form of this understanding would also enable effective biological life extension.
>>10799673MRI's are neat because they're based on quantum-mechanical effects, and there's physical limitations in their time-space accuracy, even with modern technology.
Let us suppose for a moment we have available every method of life extension and we have to choose. In that case I guess we would have to ask our selves why we want to live longer? and what kind of life if would be?For instance, if you want to live many centuries in order to enjoy life normally (things like eating, fucking, sleeping, etc) then it would be pointless to upload your brain to a computer, because without a body you would not be able to enjoy any of these things. Also the problem with "uploading" would be you creating a digital clone of yourself, so you would not be immortal anyways.I think the way the more appropriate method to achieve an enjoyable life extension would be bio-technological and maybe even somewhat cybernetic.
>>10799760Its my understanding that these hard limitations do not preclude synapse connection imaging? I'm pretty sure the quantum "resolution" limit is a lot smaller
>>10799781>so you would not be immortal anyways.My digital clone wouldn't feel that way.though, and assuming you had a brain interface good enough to download the self, could you combine and divide the digital clones with yourself? Just really play games with the persistence of self.
I'm terrified by the mad rush to achieve immortality. Humanity's fear of death fueling a sociopathic desire to accumulate the necessary resources live forever.
>>10799798What evidence do you have of this claim? I pursue immortality casually as a middle class wage slave. There are brain vitrification procedures easily covered by health insurance. Im doing the whole family if they want it.
>>10799781>For instance, if you want to live many centuries in order to enjoy life normally (things like eating, fucking, sleeping, etc) then it would be pointless to upload your brain to a computer, because without a body you would not be able to enjoy any of these things. Wrong, they could be simulated, and be MUCH more pleasurable. Like shooting heroin while skydiving while getting your thirty dicks sucked by thirty aliens>Also the problem with "uploading" would be you creating a digital clone of yourself, so you would not be immortal anyways.Literally meaningless. There’s no continuous self.
>>10799810As soon as it becomes remotely feasible it won't just be bored milquetoast nerds pursuing it.>evidenceI assume everyone is aware there are douchebags and assholes out there, if not then you're pretty naive. Most are stupid and impulsive but some are very good at what they do, they worm their way into positions of authority through intimidation, spreading rumors and blackmail and set about embezzling, scamming and extorting as much as possible in various ways, just so they can get a little richer. Now imagine if most normal people behaved like this so they can afford life extension.
>>10799259>ask the "immortal" digital consciousness if it worked>digital consciousness says "yea bro it worked">real consciousness is actually dead
>>10799828>Implying there’s any continuous self even though there simply isn’t
>>10799833Stop you're giving me an existential crisis.
I don't think it'll happen that soon but I'm looking forward to getting the stress of mortality at least partially off my back. Then I just have to deal with my paralyzing of eternity.
>>10800030Do you really think it will happen in our lifetime? Seems a bit too optimistic desu
All I've seen on this subject for the last 10 years is a regurgitation of the same ideas (mostly popularized by Kurzweil). As far as I know we haven't made any progress towards making it a reality. I think the main problem is that it relies on a mostly altruistic, communalistic society and not one that's merely obsessed with capitalism (and by extension resource depletion and societal exploitation), to the detriment of all.We need to aspire to be more than creatures that turn 1 dollar into 2 or we will never survive our own adolescence, let alone live forever.
>>10800043We're already in it. We come to simulations of pre-immortality era to quell the boredom of living forever. The two of us are probably several million years old. My program is defective because I'm not supposed to have these thoughts
>>10800043I'm incapable of choosing to die, so I'll be doing everything I can to keep myself alive in any form until some variation of immortality is available, and after I've achieved that, I'll continue to pursue more and more secure forms of it, chasing that asymptote. Optimism has nothing to do with it, I just have no other options.
>>10799781>Also the problem with "uploading" would be you creating a digital clone of yourself, so you would not be immortal anyways.We're already perpetually creating clones of ourselves through the 4th dimension. The body, even the brain, creates new cells to replace the old continually, and your consciousness transfers through time from the old to the new. Consciousness could even be said to be this transfer process. For if we were stuck in one moment, we would be nothing. Consciousness is an observation of change. And moving from a human mind to an artificial mind would be no different. The new mind would observe the change, and the old would cease to be. This happens every moment of your life.
>>10799259*hacks your consciousness**turns you off*didn't see that one coming did you genius
>>10800058What makes you so certain you can't experience your own death? Have you considered the possibility that death is an observable outcome that one part of the brain can have on the other and that a superposition of all possible combinations could exist whereby you are not fully dead in any of them but collectively survive in none of them
>>10800072>What makes you so certain you can't experience your own death?That's not what I said
>>10800078Oh I thought you were being deep.Why can't you choose to die?
>>10800082Why can't a platonic triangle choose to have eight sides?
>>10800088Because it can't choose anything? I doubt that was your point though, this doesn't sound like a free-will vs determinism debate Can you choose to die but fail at executing it? Or is the thought itself completely impossible
>>10800094The thought doesn't happen, the desire seems unable to manifest.
First. I like to think that if you could go for the whole brain emulation take on the matter. And made it so that even commoners could afford it. That my scan would really fucking hate me. Sure after like hundreds of years it wouldn't even resemble me, wouldn't even be the same scan most likely. And assumingly with tech this advanced it most likely wouldn't be the case. But I like to imagine that I don't bother to improve or learn anything with my new found life. And just work for digital peanuts to make sure whatever server or whatever I'm on doesn't have the juice cut from it.
>>10800106And what I mean by hate me is that even with the gift of immortality, or just a heavily increased life span. I'm still like a lazy cunt who can't be bothered to do anything. So I just keep getting like entry level shit to further myself. Never improving or furthering my own position. Even after hundreds of years I still wouldn't further myself in anyway. Truly squandering such an amazing thing.
>>10800006What hes saying is comfy as fuck, but your brainlet brain cant grasp it.
>>10800048>capitalismLol commie. People like to own stuff and be better than the neighbor, its human nature.
>OOH BABY DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT'S FOR
>OOH HEAVEN IS A PLACE ON EARTH
>>10800124No argument, owning stuff is great. But once a man gets to a certain age it loses its luster. He thinks about what he's to leave behind and where we're headed with it. Self fades away and the whole becomes more visible. The whole isn't pretty. Self probably wasn't pretty either
>>10800106>>10800111Secondly. Due to technological limitations. I don't see really anyone living to be hundreds of years old in any point in human history. Hell, even with realistic methods of longevity like implanting healthier organs and whatever else. How long can that really give you? Plus you have the issue with the brain. Even if you can go full conversion you still have to worry about your brain turning into mush.
>>10800143>But once a man gets to a certain ageYeah old people feel like shit and wish to die, but do you want a civilization based in the death wishes of the decadent? Or one based in the fervorous energy of the young?
>>10800148You havent read all the new shit, scientists are reverting rats brain aging giving them tumors remoting tumors with flashimg lights. Its crazy shit, and its happening.
>>10799259We don't even fully understand how the brain works yet, never mind interact with it, no way this will happen in our lifetime. Not that I would want it to anyway, this life is shit enough, why would I even want to live forever in this hellhole?
>>10800106>>10800111>>10800148Thirdly, even if the more realistic means of life extension came into being. Not everybody would be able to afford it. I'm not just howling about how the rich get to live longer. I'm just saying that even such procedures existed. Whoever made/had the rights to/whatever would be selling it for some hard hard cash. As any sane person would. And again. I'm talking realism here, so it wouldn't be some bullshit potion some pink haired Mohawks could steal from a corporate tower. But loads of genetic tampering and surgeries that cost a decent penny. And again, for what amounts to short gains in the living longer department.
>>10800159A little of both, probably. Regardless, I think we all need to sit down as people and discuss what we're doing as a civilization. It seems we can barely manage not to kill each other, and that's pretty much the extent of international diplomacy even in this modern age: agreeing not to kill each other. We should have more ambitious goals no matter what
>>10800176Were doing pretty fine and have done so for millennia, youre just a drama queen. People are ok the way they are. Chill.
>>10800148>>10799259Cascade of homeostatic failure.Iron accumulation causes brain degeneration, hart dicease, possibly diabetes and some forms of cancer. The body likely evolved in times where iron was scarce, so it has no way of excreting excess iron.Copper deficiency. Causes diminished cognition, especially tunnel vision and distorted perception. Also necessary in the immune system and two less important superoxide dismutase enzymes. The amounts used in animal feeds suggest that the belief of its toxicity is likely false.Manganese. Required in the most important SOD present in mitochondria. Molybdenum. Several detoxification enzymes. Magnesium. Involved in processes regualating other minerals, its deficiency makes worse all of the above. Causes caclifications, bone loss, brain fog/depression, allergies, atherosclerosis and possibly others.Calcium. Depletes magnesium, makes all the things above worse.
Only 20 more years!
>>10799823Most normal people don't do this to pursue wealth. You think the entire world is just going to flip a switch and start behaving like purge once a new technology comes out?
>>10799259Why does everyone think the singularity will happen by 2045? We aren't anywhere close to singularity if you look at our "progress"
>>10800173More than likely it would be taken over by loan departments so you spend eternity paying off eternityIts a win-win
>>10800348Immortality is not singularity. Bological immortality may be in fact quite close, closer than you think. It¨s sort of unimaginable, but so was the wrold without infectious diseases - once it was understood, it wasn't particularly challenging to solve, in fact the humanistic side might have been more difficult to deal with than the technology itslef. This will likely be the same. It seems that the body can repair all the damage, it just fails at doing so. Once the root cause is discovered, dealing with may not be particularly challenging,
>>10799740I would agree with the oryginal faggot, that we don't need to understand that. We have to understand, how to create good AI, so that it can create a better AI, so that it can create gawd. That said, this god will probably work in "misterious ways" and might not be interested in prolonging our misery, but it will not matter then anyway.
>>10799259SENS and linked therapies are the best best to controlled senescence in a near future. I'm raging almost everyday that it is not the first pursuit of the world. Literally all of mankind problems are linked to death, but 99,99% of people are fucking dumbass normies who can't project in the future or learn simple biology.
Immortality is a crock of bunk. Show me 1 (ONE) futurist that is both a major proponent of the idea that immortality and believes that it will arrive AFTER actually tables say that futurist will be dead. You can't. Technological singularity and immortality fags base their predictions primarily off there personal fear of death. They all expect it to arrive right before they otherwise expect to die.
>>10801883Why would you want that? There is no reason to expect it later than in several decades and it's geenrally impossible to predict things that far into future anyway.
>>10801945There has been zero progress in the realm of life extension beyond the prevention and treatment of disease and nutrition. The fact that any of them make claims at all and expect to be taken seriously is absurd. The fact that there predictions vary from futurist to futurist but always inline with personal actuarial tables makes the reason they are making claims at all very apparent. Kurzweil pops pills all day every day trying to keep himself alive. He even started that one of the most formative events of his life was him gaining a terrible personal fear of death after his father died.
>>10802005>beyond the prevention and treatment of disease and nutrition.This is being incredibly understated right now. Whole foods plant based nutrition is the best tool we have for disease prevention and even reversal.
>>10802012To say nothing of the environmental benefits of plant based diets.
>>10802043true. It's my hope for humanity's brightest future. I had a fleeting daydream 100-200 years from now McDonalds, Pfizer, Coca-Cola, etc are nothing but relics of a time where hedonism and ignorance was king.
>>10802005There is plenty of new research and the money invested into it is growing rapidly, and considering it's one of the few practically applicable lines of research, it's likely to increase. Tt hasn't resulted in a practical technology yet, but that is a matter of years or perhaps decades. In any case, your argument is invalid.
>>10802075>your argument is invalidNothing I said is incorrect. You literally just said that there is a tonne of money going into life extension tech despite no significant results. I personally wouldn't have used it, but your statement is more supportive of my argument rather than yours.Show me actual results or at very least an expert assessment that isn't clearly tainted by morbid fear. Until then the futurists most involved in this topic are at best sad testaments to how emotions can can the better of otherwise intelligent people.
>>10802104Results take time. You said that people predict immortality only because they fear death and hope it happens within their lifetime. That is not a valid argument.
>>10799259>plug in>die>clones/copies survive until rebootits literally the same shit
>>10802336>b-but the singularity!!!
>>10802321>sleep:die>lose train of thought:die
>>10799259The closest thing to a "immortality by 2045" will be head transplants. It will still take ~100+ years to solve the problem of what it means to be human/self. I think buddhists have a headstart with their no-self framework. It comes out fine even with "paradoxes" like teleportation paradoxs or cloning paradoxes.
>>10799259>living for literally foreverPretty much impossible, but who really knows.>Stopping agingThis could happen, but we could also fuck it up and end the world.>Dude let's download our minds onto computers so we'll live forever lmaoYou'd still be the old biological you always were, now a computer thinks it's you. Honestly, it'd just be a waste of hard drive space.
Digital information isn't immortal so why would yoruself in digital form be immortal?
Aubery De Grey is literally our only hope
>>10803281>our only hope is a lord of the rings larperi don't like our chances
>>10799822>Literally meaningless. There’s no continuous self.Enjoy dyingDaily reminder that the only way is Moravec transfer
>>10802426>sleep:die>implying the brain completely shuts down when sleepingYou got a source to back that up champ?