Tell me why should I care about climate change again?
>>10716881Because....it will have negative effects for most humans alive and thus make wars and refugee crises more likely?
>>10716887nobody cares about Africa.Refugees can be stopped easily.
>>10716892>nobody cares about Africa.I do. So do most people. Sociopathy is a minority disease.>Refugees can be stopped easily.Nope. You are delusional.
>>10716900>Nope. You are delusional.Why? They can teleport and are immune to bullets
>>10716903>Why? They can teleport and are immune to bulletsKnew it, sociopath.No one’s voting for you.
>>10716900>I do. So do most people. Africa could vanish tomorrow and 90% of people in Poland wouldn’t care.Same in Hungary or Czech Republic
>>10716910>No one’s voting for you.Who won elections in Poland and Hungary sweetie?
>>10716913>Africa could vanish tomorrow and 90% of people in Poland wouldn’t careCitation needed, and Poland is an irrelevant nation.>Same in Hungary or Czech RepublicMore citations.>Who won elections in Poland and Hungary sweetie?A Russian and a Mongolian?
as a south american I dont give a crap about africa, but I do care for poland (I've been there)and the climate has always changed it has never been staticthats all , continue.
>>10716940Oh boy, another racist who’s also ignorant about climate change.
>climate constantly in oscillation for millions of years >look at tiny speck of a sample size to make determinations of the future Climate science will go down as one of the great propaganda efforts in history
>>10716948>RacistWhiteoid nonsense alert!
>>10716940Not while human civilization has existed and we're mostly worried about its effects on human civilization.
>>10716923>Poland is an irrelevant nation.Enjoy getting your food supply cut off once it becomes one of few countries capable of not only sustaining but increasing agriculture
>>10716964Ok genius please tell me what the average rate of change in previous shifts in the earths climate is and how that compares to AGW. Also what effects did these oscillations have on human civilization? Oh wait...
>>10716974Remember the last time Poland had something someone else wanted?
>>10716964>Climate science will go down as one of the great propaganda efforts in historyBut actually, the sample size is hundreds of thousands of years at minimum.
>>10716974>Enjoy getting your food supply cut off once it becomes one of few countries capable of not only sustaining but increasing agricultureThis is why I said “and thus make wars more likely”. Remember the last time people wanted land in Poland?
>>10716923>Poland is an irrelevant nation.Any country in Eastern Europe contributed more to human civilization than whole of Africa
>>10717007>Any country in Eastern Europe contributed more to human civilization than whole of AfricaBut civilization began in Africa but never once in Europe.
It would actually be pretty based if Germany swings hard right again and becomes some kind of ecoFascist state
>>10716910>No one’s voting for you.Only wealthy and degenerate people vote for >refugees welcome.It's a temporary social phenomenon that's going to disappear once people become poorer.When food becomes rationed anyone against shooting refugees on the border is going to hang in the street.
>>10717029ok cool, from reading your graph it takes on average about 50,000 years to travel from a peak to a trough. A this constitutes a change in temperature of about 8 degrees Celsius. so that gives us an average of about 6250 years per degree Celsius of change. compare this to the 1 degree Celsius of change we've experienced in 100 years. This means that on average we're experiencing change at a rate 62.5 times faster than average.
>>10717010civilization didn’t begin in Africa though
>>10717000>sample size>hundreds of thousands of yearsanon...
>>10716892>nobody cares about Africa.Take another look at the map buddy. Do you care about any of: USA, Australia, China, Japan, Southern Europe, all of the Middle East, all of SE Asia, India?Also the map probably shows it limited to a 2° increase, which we will likely exceed. After that, everyone becomes in the red.
>>10717244>Also the map probably shows it limited to a 2° increase, which we will likely exceed. After that, everyone becomes in the red.sorry to dissapoint you(pic related), the doomcult is wrong
>>10717283First one is GDP, this one is crop yields. Stay focused buddy.
>>10717283ah so if estonia has a 100% increase in yields and brazil has a 50% drop, then we still come out with more crops than we started with, right?
>>10717438Hint:I don’t live in Brazil
>>10717392sales of food to elites in other countries will be extremely profitable and rise GDP
>>10717442hint: india is hit as poorly as brazilhint 2: india has nuclear weapons
>>10717218>What’s ice coresAnon...
>>10717037>Sociopath rambles about his murder fantasies online
>>10717484You're a sociopath if you're willing to destroy your country just to virtue signal.
>>10717486>Countries get destroyed by people moving to themYou better start worrying about climate change, then.
>>10717486Better idea, reduce emissions mitigate warming, and genocide isn't necessary.
>>10717492>>Countries get destroyed by people moving to themby inferior people, absolutely.Wealthy countries are not wealthy because there's a magical force field that provides wealth, they are wealthy because people are productive.If you relocated the entire population of Congo to Japan and the entire population of Japan to Congo, after 100 years Congo would be wealthy while Japan would be a shithole.>>10717493>genocidethey can stay in their own countries.
>>10717510>they can stay in their own countriesThey can't. That leads to death. Things that lead to death aren't normally described as things we "can" do.Fix your logic, fix your language, and make your political stance clear. These generations of intellectual cowards modern /pol/ produces should sicken any thinking man.
>>10717510when the choices are move or starve no one stays put
>>10716881Because when you're in the hospital cursing the doctors for not doing more over you or your love ones having Lyme disease you are going to wonder why society didn't stop the influx of Ticks/parasites in general.I keep warning you brainlets about this shit and you keep ignoring it like retards. Moving up north to Canada or Russia isn't going to fix it either.
>>10717510>by inferior people, absolutely.Why do you think they’re inferior?>Wealthy countries are not wealthy because there's a magical force field that provides wealth, they are wealthy because people are productive.Unwealthy nations can become wealthy over time, goofy.>If you relocated the entire population of Congo to Japan and the entire population of Japan to Congo, after 100 years Congo would be wealthy while Japan would be a shithole.1. There is no “Congo” nation. Congrats on revealing how ignorant you are of things you try to discuss.2. Dubious. African birthrates are projected to be at replacement level by then.>They can stay in their own countriesPeople like to go to other countries, and they always will. Just, uh.....get over It?
>>10717538especially when global warming makes farming impossible and the option is seek refuge or starve.
>>10717532>it doesn't, it's only a matter of infrastructure. If they don't, it's not my problem.It will be when the Southern Hemisphere declares war on you, but whatever. No, climate change is not a matter of infrastructure.>They have no right to enter my country.Few if any countries legally prohibit foreign citizens from entering them, so that’s not actually true.
>>10717482sample size has nothing to do with the time range
>>10717558You're not one of those retards who thinks science only works if you can fit the entire question into a lab are you?
>>10717532>Why don't you invite a poor nigger into your own home?Because it's a violation of the rental agreement you insipid fuck. Do you think I appear uncharitable for any reason OTHER than all of society conspiring to make it impossible for me to meaningfully help others on a material level?
>>10717563Sample size has literally nothing to do with the amount of time. Sample size is the number of data points. Nothing to do with time.
>>10717566So 800,000 years worth of ice core samples is one data point now?
>>10716900Not allowing your country and civilization to be destroyed becasue it would make someone else feel bad is not sociopathy or any other mental defect or negative label you might try to ascribe to it. It's the MOST basic and normal sort of self-preservation. Doing the opposite is suicidal insanity
>>10717572If only you were capable of making a statement that wasn't rendered utterly meaningless by hyperbole.
>>10717571No, it's just that 800,000 years has fuck all to do with sample size because that's not what a sample size is.
>>10717572>MOST basic and normal sort of self-preservationNo. Waiting for egoists to have their primarily civilization collapse under the weight of its own false promise, and then migrating to the next civilization in turn is the most basic method of surviving in human society.You have some bullshit colonial notion that a man and wife can populate a nation. That's genetically ridiculous. Logically, whenever we see a civilization collapse, it has nothing to do with all the people and everything to do with the economics of the system. Most people, by an excessive margin, should be considered to have moved on. Entire populations dying out is strictly a result of disease, which is, again, a colonial privilege.Also even the natives weren't wiped out with disease, so the migration hypothesis holds there as well.You're just wrong.
>>10717580>understanding the physics that govern the planets climate and it's historical record is meaningless because we don't have a second earth in my labWhy are these retards on /sci/
>>10717587You don't even understand your terms, and that's not what I'm saying.
>>10717590Ok communicate genius.
>>10717598I've already said what I wanted to say. Can you read? Apparently not based on your replies.
>>10717538>Why do you think they’re inferior?lower averages on every iq test, higher criminality everywhere they are, relative poverty everywhere they are>Unwealthy nations can become wealthy over time, goofy.Only those that were poor due to external circumstances: either subjugation by an external power or environmental disasters (by nature temporary).The former is why South Korea and most of Eastern Europe (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc) started to become wealthy as soon as they were from the hostile military power - because their potential was being suppressed by force.Africa was fully decolonized in 1977, yet the entire Africa today has lower GDP than France.>1. There is no “Congo” nation. Congrats on revealing how ignorant you are of things you try to discuss.Remembering the names of all ephemeral states in Africa is a useless trivia.>People like to go to other countries, and they always will. Just, uh.....get over It?it doesn't matter what they like, guarding the border was never as easy. AI drones can gun down invaders with minimal costs.>>10717554>It will be when the Southern Hemisphere declares war on you, but whatever.good thing they are poor and weak then.>Few if any countries legally prohibit foreign citizens from entering themhave you heard of something called a "visa"? Most people in the world need one to enter the EU or USA.>>10717565>Because it's a violation of the rental agreement you insipid fuck.>virtue signaling cuck>doesn't even own propertycan't say I'm surprised. If you don't own property in your country while not being a soldier your opinion is irrelevant. You have no skin in the game so of course you don't give a shit about consequences.Universal suffrage is a failed experiment that fortunately is rapidly dying.
>>10716887>Negative effects like :Lol ok >R-refugees!Sentry guns exist
>>10717572>Not allowing your country and civilization to be destroyedPeople moving in doesn’t do either of those things. Climate change, other natural disasters, wars. That does.
>>10717606>I have no argument and nothing meaningful to sayThanks we noticed.
>>10717611>Lol ok Did you even look at OP’s graph?>Sentry guns existAside from immediately revealing yourself to be mentally ill, do title machineguns and fenced work on T-90s?
>>10717607If you consider all forms of ownership militaristic in nature then we have no disagreement.
>>10717621My argument is that sample sizes have nothing to do with timescale, and maybe you should learn that before posting some dumb shit.
>>10717628It's okay, you can admit you said something stupid. There's no reason to continue pretending I said something different than what I said so you can avoid admitting you were wrong.
>>10717636I can see you are very butthurt about being wrong
>>10717640Still haven't said anything meaningful, If you want to make an attempt go ahead.
>>10717647Here, I'll repeat it again and maybe this time you'll read it and think about why you are wrong: sample size has nothing to do with timescale.
>>10717651Repeating the same meaningless statement isn't making an argument. Make an argument.
>>10717655It's not a meaningless statement just because you refuse to consider it. You don't understand what a sample size is. That's okay, but you should admit your fault.
>>10717657I tried giving you a chance to actually say something useful, but not surprisingly you just keep saying the same meaningless statement. How fun.
>>10717657>It's not a meaningless statement just because you refuse to consider itYes it is. If you can't back up your explanation then we have to assume that it's an unrelated fact. Going back and forth only to come to the conclusion that you're not obliged to explain anything to anyone is a waste of everyone's time. No reader wants to hear you talk about the anon that didn't understand your meaning.If even one person fails to understand, you can in no way claim that your argument is meaningful in the ubiquitous sense that we usually ascribe to the concept of meaning.
>>10717667Well this is going nowhere. Statements don't lose meaning just because you declare them meaningless. My meaning is crystal clear to anyone that can read and understand English. It's not a tautology or empty statement, it's your empty head.
>>10717671It's very simple: sample size is a concept independent from a time interval. How multiple people have convinced themselves that this is a meaningless statement is curious, but I suppose there are a lot of morons on the internet.
>>10717679You still failed to explain the concept to a brainlet, making your entire point mental masturbation for all the people who would already understand it.
>>10717681I don't give a shit at this point whether it had context in any prior argument. You've failed to execute the dialogue in a coherent capacity and you give zero indication that you've worth the 30 seconds it might take to track the dialogue back to the non-shitposty bits.
>>10717682Not him but I'd wager he means that you can't just take ice cores from one place and say that the entire planet follows the same patterns. You would need more information from latitudes or hemispheres. Just like how morons think that the Icecaps are OK because they can cherry-pick that the southern one is growing even though the northern one is melting faster.
>>10717692Thanks. I was the anon arguing that this back and forth was counter-constructive to dialogue given that any more than two anons could read it. I think an actual unpacked argument like that is all >>10717667 was aiming for.When people value calling someone a brainlet over having a dialogue, we should suspect that at least one party is acting in a disingenuous manner.
>>10717682>>10717688>boohoo it's your fault that I'm a faggot retard
>>10716881Geography and climate. The curse of Africa.
>>10716964Do the oil lobbyists really think 4chan is some major influence point? Like why do you tards feel the need to shit up every discussion about human caused climate change with the same bullshit again and again?Like you are one dense mother fucker if you think the pace of changing average global temperature in carbon cycle and interglacials is at all comparable to the changes that have been happened on the scale of decades.Either way you aren't getting that raise.
Those analysis are only up to 1st order considering only the most superficial matters. It takes into account: agriculture, food, water, energy and tourism, but nothing else.You think if the whole world goes to shit, your country will somehow miraculously be better off for it?The housing market crash in 2008 was a worldwide crisis and that was nothing in comparison to the destruction that climate change would bring.
>>10718456There were studies that showed that 4chan is the birth of fake news that then spreads to other major more influential websites.Basically anons repost whatever they read on here to Facebook and Reddit and Twitter.And very conveniently, 4chan is every easy to game.
>>10716887>refugee crisesThere is no refugee crises if you stop letting them in. Some less ZOG'd countries have actually done this and been successful.
>>10717510>Wealthy countries are not wealthy because there's a magical force field that provides wealth, they are wealthy because people are productive.>If you relocated the entire population of Congo to Japan and the entire population of Japan to Congo, after 100 years Congo would be wealthy while Japan would be a shithole.Based. Why is this so hard for leftist to admit?I bet many leftists if confronted by a Truth Demon and asked what the outcome of such a scenario would be, many would reluctantly admit you are right. The fucken dishonesty and cowardliness is what pushed me away from calling myself a liberal anymore.
>>10718468Funny, why would Jews want to combine human races together into some gentile identity that could end up taking control and persecute them, this time with nowhere to go due to having made a world government?Is it all of them? Is it a limited to Ashkenazi Jews or are the Jews from Ethiopia in on the action too? Is this a rich jew thing or do poor Jews get to be part of it? Do jews who renounce Judaism still end up getting a spot in this ZOG despite betraying the chosen one thing since you guys see atheist Jews as Jews. Would Bernie still be allowed in despite his Israel stances? What about the Jews in Central Asia? Are they all in on this or what?
>>10717519>cowardYears ago there was no rich land of white people to run away to for salvation. The implication of your thinking is that Africans are not intelligent enough or ambitious enough or productive enough to not constantly die of AIDS, Malaria and starvation. I mean I agree with this implication. The only difference between your thinking and mine is that I admit Africans are not as capable as the rest of humanity. The cowardliness is all yours.
>>10718476A person's productivity is a function of how advanced the economy is. It is a circular argument. Being productive means nothing more than being able to mobilize more wealth to create even more wealth. A Japanese person is "more productive" because they are employed operating a CNC shop, whereas the Congolese person is working with a human powered lathe. It's literally saying wealthy people are wealthy because they are wealthy.
>>10718485>destroy their country by fucking up their climate>WHY THEY NO LIVE THERE ANYMORE >THEY NO SMARTRetard.
>>10718487Don't tell them about how more developed countries have rapid IQ rises that catch up to developed countries, they might have a panic attack and start wanting to nuke them just to be safe.Since in their minds the only 2 modes they have for other groups of people is inferiors and threats. Sometimes both at once.
>>10718487you are stupid and straw manningthat is why he said >after a hundred years I mean mexico and the western untied states started with mexico(because of spain) ahead in economic development, if your argument was not false california would be behind Mexico today.many such casesbut you will always find some excuse to excuse them ("but but mexico had this happen to them..."). then I will give you another example and you will make another excuse
>>10718491They're not a fan of Symbiosis needless to say. I can see them think the birds who pick food out of crocodile teeth are freeloading off the croc. They also conveniently ignore the exogamous tendencies of our species, or magically assume it a women thing despite they themselves regularly fawning over women of other races. Like here's a political divide among them where the white supremcists go "only breed white" while the MRA types want women from other cultures they think submissive or that they'll "bleach" em. White women don't bleach black men though, go figure.
>>10718494Poland was once rich compared to the rest of Europe. Now it's a poor shithole, so poor that the racist citizens emigrate to other European countries where they get employed alongside African refugees doing the same amount of work.
>>10717114>>10717029britfag chartspammer BTFO
>>10718496*same kind of work. Because actually the Poles are some of the worst guest workers. Often drunk and always lazy and entitled.
>>10718487When you can't win with logic just change the argument lol
>>10718501>MUH LOGICYou post like a 10 year old. Your post contained no "logic". It just appealed to a racist notion that is so ingrained in you that you honest believe that everyone thinks the same. We don't though. "Logic" would be realizing that both geography and geopolitics play a huge role when it comes to determining a nation's wealth.How else would you explain why Poles are so poor, compared to other Europeans? Are Poles just naturally inferior and stupid people?
>>10718496>Now it's a poor shithole, so poor that the racist citizens emigrate to other European countries where they get employed alongside African refugees still stuck in 2004 I seePoland has now overtaken Portugal and Greece in terms of GDP per capita and emigration stopped.In fact there are over 2.5 million immigrant workers in it, and Poles are returning from UK
>climate change isn't real>climate change is a leftist hoax>climate change isn't as bad as people are making it out to he>okay maybe climate change is bad but it's not humans that are causing it>okay maybe humans are causing it but it's actually a good thing because muh GDP----- you are here ------>oh fuck the northern hemisphere is in shambles after the global economy collapsed>fucking leftists why didn't they warn us about global warming
>>10718507Emigration has not stopped. I literally have a Pole living opposite me. I'm seeing even more Poles than ever before. The UK is something else. I'm talking about mainland Europe not Bongland.
>Access to white people is a human right>After 25,000 years and thousands of miles separation, human beings evolved to adapt to their environments, BUT, that evolution was only superficial>I don't like reality, it's not as nice as I'd like it to be, so I will pretend it's not like it is, even though it do (Oscar Gamble)>One group of people walked on the moon, another group of people invented a stick (no wheel), if we mix them up their IQ's will multiply together>A group of people have been worshiping themselves as god's own "chosen people" but muh white supremacy is the problem (intentionally not looking at who honestly runs the media)>if you disagree with me you're scared, [insert identity label]-phobiaThe truth will set you free. Goodnight faggots!
>>10718516>GoodnightIt's 12PM in bongland
>>10718516jewish superiority is the ultimate basedpill
My interactions with Poles have been mostly negative: drunk, aggressive, stupid, hateful, racist and entitled. My interactions with African refugees have been mostly positive: keep to themselves, work hard, save money, don't drink, don't smoke, try to befriend the locals instead of thinking the are above them, even though they are poor economic immigrants.What the fuck is wrong with Poles?
>>10718526Your point being?
>>10718510I agree with you but the reason I am looking forward to catastrophic global warming is so the weak get killed. I honestly want survival of the fittest to return. It will probably be chaos but it's not like anyone on the left appreciates what we have now
>>10718529My point being, sort your shit out and stop being assholes.
>>10718531You don't understand darwinism do you?
>>10718533I'm not a pole, what are you trying to say mate?
>>10718516>if we mix them up their IQ's will multiply togetherFucking kek
>>10718535This thread is about Poles being their usual entitled asshole selves. Why are you even replying to me?
>>10716881Because the elites are stealing money and taking freedom away from you with the anthropogenic global warming scam
>>10718534The harder the SHTF the more of Clown World gets destroyed, and that's a good thing
>>10718543Lol, why do you think that? Have you considered that maybe it just motivates society to sort their shit out and get rid of your kind of people with your kind of thinking?
>>10718544How the fuck do they know what the average temperature was 800,000 years ago?
>>10718540>Why are you even replying to me?Why did you need the feel to post what you posted?>>10718543Not that I disagree but what we have now is the fittest people for the current conditions and what we would have in an apocalyptic world would be the fittest for the apocalyptic conditions, not the strongest, quite the opposite likely.
>>10718546The irony of your post is breathtaking
>>10718551that's a very stupid answer
>economic projections 100 years into the futurenigga economic projections are about as accurate as astrology for near-term studies. why do you have such confidence in economic projections 100 years into the future? also you are retarded. you think billions of people dying will have no impact on your life? no man lives on an island
>>10718563It was a very stupid question.
>>10718543>muh clown world>babby's first societal disillusionmentIt's hilarious seeing /pol/posters think they're some sort of new and innovative philosophers for "discovering" poorly repackaged centuries-old philosophical stances
>>10718561Not really. Just you being stupid.
>>10718531What makes you so sure you'll be one of the lucky ones who survives the culling?
>>10718580Their whole worldview revolves around them being tough macho men. Of course they will survive, lol!
>>10718531>"we have to stop climate change so our children can experience the world as we do"- leftists>"the left don't appreciate what we have now"- youThanks for your retarded opinion of the day
>>10718580>>10718582I know you won't understand or believe this but there are some people who don't view comfort and safety as peak human existence. I might not be lucky enough to survive SHTF but I'm ok with that. Everyone in this thread will be dead in 80 years regardless. I don't get this obsession with comfort and safety. After a very rudimentary baseline more comfort and safety don't make people happier. You'll probably come to this conclusion at your own some day. Clown World aka Globohomo(genization) is real. Peoples' sense of purpose, meaning and happiness is on the decline, across the political spectrum which is why everyone is raging so hard. The right has been complaining about the hedonistic degeneracy and destruction of community and the nuclear family for a long time. All my leftist friends talk like the world is about to end. I just smile and hope they're right. S will HTF, it's just a matter of when.
>>10718603Have you ever considered that you're just a nutjob?
>>10716881Don't you care about Gdansk ?
>>10718603>After a very rudimentary baseline more comfort and safety don't make people happier.Yeah no I think I'll keep my nice house, decent car, good public services and adequate disposable income thanks. You can go and live in a shack in the woods if it makes you feel better though, more power to you.
>>10718574No it was not, it was a genuinely interesting one, have you even read the methods section of the paper where that graph was published? Or you just take their word for it?
>>10718611Have you ever considered that the masses have always believed in religion, falsehoods and make-believe? There was once a time when everyone believed in Christianity or that the world was flat or that the earth was the center of the Universe or that life arose spontaneously from nothing or that consuming lead cured disease. And ever one of those times we eventually came to believe that they were wrong. Right now everyone just assumes leftist/Progressive ideology is correct and anyone who disagrees is backwards or stupid or racist or scared of such and such, etc., etc. Leftism is the dominant culture, right now. And yet the science supporting foundational first principles of this ideology is not there. But anyone, any scientist, who disagrees or finds otherwise is a racist, bigot, misogynist, etc., etc. Leftist ideology peaked in the early 2000's. If you haven't noticed dissent had been rapidly growing. I know it's easier to believe that simple these non conformists are the bad people but you're wrong. Your thinking is owned by the Globohomo elite and they hate you.
>>10718623You missed the point
Cause if fully effects u
>>10718526kek, it’s pretty obvious you are non-white.Even the poorest Pole knows he is above you
>>10718567>also you are retarded. you think billions of people dying will have no impact on your life?The death of billions of Africans will probably have positive effect on environment though.
>>10718639>>10718661>OH NOES OTHER PEOPLE ARE BETTER THAN ME>MUST DESTROY THE UNIVERSE*angry screeching intensifies*
>>10716881because you wish the issue was only GDP
>>10718510>oh fuck the northern hemisphere is in shambles after the global economy collapsedBoth human civilization and economy will be fine after the end of Third World.First world is perfectaly capable of producing sufficient food, and natural resources extraction can be automated.
>>10718671>Africa dies>Universe diesKangz really lack the ability for wider perspective don’t they?
>>10718484>why would jews want low IQ mutt people whom they can easily control
>be Boris from Novoanninsky>pretend to be a Pole on the Internet>post extremist right-wing propaganda>Poles agree with you>non-Poles hate on Poles>????>profit>later>out yourself for lolz>Poles deny that Russian propaganda existsTOP KEK
>>10718681>destroys the climate>EVERYTHING WILL TOTALLY BE JUST FINE GOY>BELIEVE ME
>>10718684Russia will be *winning!* under climate change though
>>10718685>climate changes to warmer in some parts of the Earth, making Poland like Italy and Siberia like Southern France>oh no! climate is destroyed! kek
>>10718678>Both human civilization and economy will be fine after the end of Third World[Citation needed]
>>10718691>POLAND WILL JUST BECOME LIKE ITALYTOP KEK
>>10718692kek, name one thing Third World provides that is irreplacable
>>10718688>>10718691Neither Russia nor Poland are big contributors to climate change. This whole thread is futile. The biggest contributors are the US, China and Europe as a whole, all of which will be impacted negatively.
>>10718694https://ec.europa.eu/jrc/sites/jrcsh/files/task_03_agriculture_final_v3.pdf>The response of crops to climate change is more complex for rain-fed agriculture. In this case, yields are dominated by regional water availability. Some regions and crops see increases in yields with climate change, others see decreases (Figure 1).On the one hand, a favourable pattern emerges in Eastern Europe for all crops modelled, both when the CO2 fertilisation effect is excluded, and when it is included. There are some large yield increases relative to now, such as over 30% for wheat and maize.
>>10718697>POLAND IS MARIO PIZZA PIE Stop it.
>>10718700>Mario Pizza Landtop intellectual argument of a Kang
>>10716881severe droughtPoland will evaporate in 20 years
Why do these threads always boil down to "I don't care how much damage climate change does to my country because the real problem is migrants and I'm somehow going to convince my government to commit genocide on the border"?It's unrealistic at best
>>10716887Because people will be screaming about inequality WAY more than even now and you'll have to deal with communism all over again.
>>10718984https://youtube.com/watch?v=0W0yTwmjDXYBecause the alternative is hamstringing your nation solely to facilitate the expansion of developing nations and people's whose growth will further drive your standard of living towards the global mean, which is far below what youre comfortable with now. These people have a twisted morality that just arbitrarily states the true moral thing in life is filling the world with as many people alive as possible at the same time. I would rather not have my country destroy any chance I have for class progression in the worthless attempt to stop the inevitable poor uprising.I've gotta get mine.
>>10718984implying anyone in Eastern Europe needs to convince any government to carry out genocide
>>10718984>I don't care how much damage climate change does to my country what if my country benefits from climate change?
>>10718490Ah, yes, how can that anon be so dumb? The problem truly is this one-dimensional - it's the climate, stupid! Moreover, it's all "our" fault. Are you not aware of the fact, anon, that Africans have no autonomy? Did you ever hear of the Reverse White Man's Burden? Probably not, because you're an uneducated dimwit, and definitely a racist. All disasters of the world are caused by "our" wrongdoing. Africa was a thriving continent before we destroyed it by messing with the climate, you know. Its societal and economical structures were highly complex and efficient, and peace prevailed as far as the eye could see - Shaq'anda and D'Kendrix were on the verge to usher in the utopia! But evil reared its ugly head: Hans and Diettrich landed on the Dark Continent, removing all potential for unlimited growth and prosperity. Wakanda would undoubtedly be actualized if fate were allowed to run its due course. But Hans and Diettrich obstructed Africa's path to greatness. Those racists! Imagine where Africa would be today if they didn't! My eyes start to water when I think about what could be .. If it were not for "us" partying like it's 1899, *you* would be rushing toward Afferca to grab a piece of the pie, anon! Like, just educate yourself!.
That map looks like WWIII.
>>10719095Or we could stop subsidizing the industry that's killing everyone>>10719100It doesn't. Anything you've heard to the contrary is either a lie or has so many caveats and addendums that it is a useless statement
>>10719095>Because the alternative is hamstringing your nationThat's completely false. The opposite is true. A push to become carbon neutral would be both a huge economic boon and a double so if you do it before other nations so that you acquire the expertise necessary that you can then sell to them for even more $$$$$. Plus you remove all the negative economic externalities from both pollution and climate change.
>>10719132> A push to become carbon neutral would be both a huge economic boonImagine being this retarded.
>>10719132So Australia, a nation of less than 30 million people with an abundance of coal and coal mines, should just switch to green energy... to stop all the pollution they cause in the grand scheme of things... and destroy at least a quarter of our economy... because... we could then set up solar panels... and sell... advice to Indonesia??
>>10719140Fuck off you economically illiterate meat head. The fuck do you know?
>>10719143Australia is going to get fucking roasted, lol. No water and no food and deadly weather. Your climatologists and emigrating. That's how bad it is there.
>>10716881You probably shouldn't. From a very young age we are taught that we need to compete to survive, and that is pretty much true. Capitalism is sort of a religion at this point - entirely based around natural selection. But preventing climate change is going to take the completely opposite mindset, a new era of cooperation not competition. It's not in our nature to play nice. Greed always wins. Caring about climate change and the environment will put you at a competitive disadvantage to those who merely like to pretend or think they care about climate change and the environment, and they will crush you.
>>10719143Yes, that seems to be the most rational option. Needless to say, the fact that China will, in the course of a few weeks, completely nullify Australia's reduction in carbon emission is not an argument.
>>10719157>From a very young age we are taught that we need to compete to surviveLolwut?
>>10719163lulbellcurve you fucking moronyou must be a dumb cunt, right?
>>10719172The fuck are you talking about? You are projecting your upbringing over the rest of the world. It's completely false. Neither competition nor capitalism are virtues in most places on earth, including most of the western world.
>>10719181God you are fucking stupid... lol
>>10719191>says dumb shit>gets corrected>NO YOU STUPID LOL
>>10719181life imitates art. and society imitates the law of the jungle, which is natural selectionI dont expect you to understand this, because you're a dumb fucking cunt
>>10718491>Since in their minds the only 2 modes they have for other groups of people is inferiors and threats. Sometimes both at once.Incorrect, it's always inferior. If another group is a threat, they are simultaneously impotently inferior and a world destroying threat.>>10718495The right-wing mindset is either Win-Lose or Lose-Lose. It not enough that they get something, they have to know that others are not. If choosing between a mutually beneficial agreement that gets 10 units for all parties or a dominant agreement that gets 5 units for their party and no units for the rest, they'll always choose the latter.>>10718531>>10718543>>10718580The original position fallacy that right-wing people are prone to committing. Due to each and every one believing that they themselves are the ultimate lifeform, they often support the collapse of society because they'll believe it'll get rid of the inferiors that are above them and can't comprehend that the odds are severely against them that they'll survive the mass die-offs from the collapse of society.
>>10719203Not true and you're the dumb cunt. If what you said was true, we'd still be living like out ancestors 300.000 years ago.Humans built social institutions and in turn those social institutions shape human behavior and in so doing humans civilized themselves.And besides the law of the jungle is not competition, either.You know nothing, Jon Snow.
>>10719204This. Right wingers are dumb idiots who would prefer to live in a small house as long as it meant poor people lived in shanty towns when we could all just coexist and live in mansions.
>>10719204the eternal /pol/adox, somehow Jews are both inferior in every way, yet somehow are masterminds who control the whole world from the shadows.
>>10719211you're a dumb cuntwhoever convinced you your opinion matters is using you
>>10719224>Someone's using yousaid the right wing useful idiot fed on nothing but lies his entire life.
>>10719224>seething brainlet got caught posting pseudo-intellectual crap and is now angry that people called him out on the lack of substance and coherence on his postI feel sorry for you. Now you can stop replying to me, OK? No hard feelings.
>>10719233>>10719234>WAH WAH DUMB CUNTS ARE MAD :(>DUMB CUNTS RETARD BOYFRIEND NOT GONNA GET LAID TODAY
>>10719233>>10719234BELL CURVEHave you heard of it?SUPPLY AND DEMANDHave you heard of it?lulz there is no possible way that you are not dumb female CUNTS
>>10719244>>10719252I keep coming back to these threads for the glorious meltdown phase. When the cognitive dissonance becomes so strong from being so obviously wrong all pretext of rationality disappears and nothing but autistic screeching remains.
>>10719267Ya its frustrating when DUMB CUNTS (yet another one, triggered lol) who don't understand basics like the bell curve and supply and demand think their opinion matters.
>>10719280>if I keep repeating these buzzwords the mean people will leave me alone and I won't have to ever actually stop and think.cute
>>10719244>>10719252Why don't you go beat up your mother you fucking meat head. Might make you feel better about being a stupid fucking cunt that failed to get anywhere in life. It's all her fault.
>>10716881>CanadaI guess I've been thinking about this the wrong way, yay for climate change!
>>10719282show bobs and vageneYOU DUMB CUNT
>>10717283>Ontariodamnit, climate change be damned!
>>10716881Because fuck canadians. They deserve the hyperinflating hellscape they have wrought.
>>10719290It all makes sense now, all the climate change deniers are literally all just professional leaf shills.
>>10716881Not being an edgy pol tards, I understand that the overall effect of climate change is negative.However my hometown is currently making banks. Warmer Atlantic water = more lobster migration to the north. Fuck the dirty southeners in Massachussetts (their catches in cape cod are going down and they're crying that the lobsters are migrating north lmao). Also I read about how climate change will shift the wine belt which is currently about 45 degree latitude north. Can't wait to retire in 2050 and make a comfy vineyard off my parents land. tldr, buy a house in maine
>>10719413Enjoy it while it lasts, ocean life across the board has been plummeting over the past few decades.
>>10717536>tic epidemict-this w-won't actually happen, r-right?
>>10718696>all of which will be impacted negatively>implying the us and china won't develop modified strains of crop that will grow fine in altered climatesthe eu might be too busy self flagellating to actually get off their ass and solve their problems, though
>>email@example.com << actual mail address of a hungarian politician
>>10718576>you can't believe this thing because centuries old guys have dibs>so get back to mindlessly accepting society like everyone elsei have never seen anyone declare themselves a revolutionary for making clown memes. you're just a strawmanning pseud
>>10717004we fought them off :^)
>>10719591you can't just say "tech wiw sowve everythin". When the soil is literally just sand and there's no fresh water source anywhere close you've a problem, genetic engineering or not.
>>10719625>climates 5 degrees hotter than the us have no soil or fresh waterok lying alarmist
>>10717607>Only those that were poor due to external circumstancesThat ackshshully isn't true. Look at Georgia (country, not state). They went from ~50% poverty rate to ~15%, in less than a decade.China freed 800 million people from poverty in ~two and a half decades.Both of those countries deregulated and became pro-business and pro-competition.It's not genetics, it's economic freedom.
>>10719630>It's not genetics, it's economic freedomHow's that working for Somalia? It's the only true realization of a free market. You can steal your competitors wares and mark them up making a massive profit by hurting your competitor and creating artificial scarcity. Your only real concern is being killed in a similar raid, but luckily there's a wealth of impoverished idiots that you can pay to do the on-site work, removing you from danger, and plenty more that you can arm for your private police/militia.What a world it would be if it weren't for all those damned market regulations.
>>10719647Free market assumes property rights and rule of law.
>>10719654It absolutely does not. There's nothing free about telling me what I can and cannot sell
>>10719657Ok, then why did China and Georgia Succeed when Somalia didn't?
>>10719625>When the soil is literally just sand and there's no fresh water source anywhereHydroponic vertical farming powered by renewables/nuclear breeder reactors/fusion. We dont need soil where we are going, old man.
>>10719659Because they didn't have a free market. Free markets don't work.
>>10719659high average intelligence, genetically determined
>>10719660congratulations you still have food but it's probably close to 50 times as expensive to produce.
>>10719662>>10719665Ok, then how do you explain their rapidly improving quality of life? They were poor for a long time, then became suddenly relatively well off. What changed?
>>10718683Trick question. They don't need them, just some padding to make the future worforce replacement with AI less bloody.
>>10719630>Both of those countries deregulated and became pro-business and pro-competition.As far as I know, the chinese state did become pro-business but still regulates heavily and limits competition.But yeah, how do you account for all the rest of the capitalist third world ?
>>10719668I haven't studied the situation, but it's almost definitely due to a paradigm shift and a corresponding increase in economic mobility possibly from a change in business regulations as you suggested. Note that economic mobility is not the same as economic freedom
>>10719657You were actually right, free market doesn't even assume a government. I was wrong about that, but I didn't bring up the free market, (you did). I said economic freedom. The two are not the same.I meant a more general minarchist libertarian system. Sorry for the confusion.
Point me a single bad thing that will come from human extinction pro tip you're can't
>>10719682Capitalist third world? Like which countries?>>10719686The "paradigm shift" was literally a hard pro-business, and economic freedom shift.Make no mistake, they are not a poster child for economic freedom, all that matters is that they became vastly MORE free.
>>10719687The free market is the ultimate realization of economic freedom. Pesky regulations like "you have to tell people what's in it" and "you can't sell food that's poisonous" get in the way of what economic actions I'm allowed to take, limiting my economic freedom. Would we be better off without these regulations? History says absolutely not and that's why we made them
>>10719699>Make no mistake, they are not a poster child for economic freedom, all that matters is that they became vastly MORE free.Alright, so now we've gotten past the first hurdle of "a free market does not work". Now, could their prosperity be in part due to the regulations that they did have which likely prevent market abuses and protect consumers?
>>10719699>Capitalist third world? Like which countries?About all of them.
>>10719697Considering the current social progression which is progressing towards who knows what... You can extrapolate what will be acceptable 100 years from now. 1000 years from now? No matter what wonderful technology that future civilization would have, it would pale in comparison to sheer disgust an average western tolerant person would towards them. Do we want that hypothetical world? Because there won't be any past generations to hold us back.
>>10719682>>10719686>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China#Macroeconomic_trends>In the late 1970s and early 1980s, economic reforms were introduced. First of all this began with the shift of farming work to a system of household responsibility and a phasing out of collectivized agriculture. Later this expanded to include a gradual liberalization of price controls; fiscal decentralization; massive privatization of state enterprises, thereby allowing a wide variety of private enterprises in the services and light manufacturing; the foundation of a diversified banking system (but with large amounts of state control); the development of a stock market; and the opening of the economy to increased foreign trade and foreign investment.Also, there's a great book on the Georgian reforms by one of the actual MPs of the time, it's free online.https://www.palgrave.com/gp/book/9783319457680>>10719705The book I linked above actually addresses that. There's a story there about how they let anyone open a restaurant without any government oversight. Read it, it's really interesting.This whole train of thought assumes that people just keep buying poisonous food. They don't. Also, it's not in the interest of business owners to poison their own customers.>>10719711>Now, could their prosperity be in part due to the regulations that they did have which likely prevent market abuses and protect consumers?No. The only kind of regulations you need are environmental ones. This is also addressed in the book. It's free.>>10719714https://www.heritage.org/index/explore^Here's an economic freedom index. Point to one of those capitalist third world countries, and we'll see how free it is.
>>10718984>implying I need to convince my government of anything
>>10719727>Q.3. How do you measure economic freedom?We measure economic freedom based on 12 quantitative and qualitative factors, grouped into four broad categories, or pillars, of economic freedom:1.Rule of Law (property rights, government integrity, judicial effectiveness)that doesn't seem like a very free list.
>>10719629It's an average. If you take individual days, during the summer northern US can experience temperatures of up to 50 c.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/6407050/Day-after-tomorrow-map-shows-consequences-of-climate-change.html
>>10719727Wew, this whole post is pure cope.That Wikipedia excerpt doesn't discuss their regulations nor does it imply that a lack of regulation is responsible for their prosperity.>This whole train of thought assumes that people just keep buying poisonous food. They don't. Also, it's not in the interest of business owners to poison their own customers.They don't need to know that the food is bad, nor does it hurt business. Google "buyer beware" and learn about the flagrant market abuses of the 20th century and the absolute helplessness of the consumer>No. The only kind of regulations you need are environmental ones. Great, so I can still sell my tainted meats and change my company name anytime my consumers figure it out then? Plus I still get to rob or murder my competitors to double my money before establishing a monopoly? Fucking sick, bro, let's do it.
Lower GDP in red countries >> poverty increases >> riots and protests >> may lead to democracy >> new government refuse let blue countries exploit red’s resources >> blue GDP go down.If you think crises in one country won’t affect your economy, then I suggest you continue your high school education, not to mention half of the world.
>>10719727>Point to one of those capitalist third world countries, and we'll see how free it is.Pick one that is not free enough and explain to me why it is not.
>>10719758Look, buddy, I have already said that I do not advocate for a no-government solution. That isn't capitalism, that's anarchy, be definition. I believe there should be property laws and rule of law. You can continue on debating the strawman you created, but I do not see how it's of any use. If you keep that up, this was my last response to you>>10719764>They don't need to know that the food is bad, nor does it hurt businessPeople can't realize what's poisoning them? Your customers dying en masse doesn't hurt business? The dark web (a completely unregulated entity) recently banned fentanyl because they thought it was too dangerous, ergo, hurting business. This, apparently, isn't true according to you. Then why did they ban it? >Great, so I can still sell my tainted meats and change my company name anytime my consumers figure it out then?Yes. They will. There is such a thing as reputation.>Plus I still get to rob or murder my competitors to double my money before establishing a monopoly?This is a strawman. I have said and reiterated multiple times that property laws and rule of law is important.
>>10719766>new government refuse let blue countries exploit red’s resources >> blue GDP go down.If you want to look down on others you should try to think a bit more about what you write yourself.
>>10719771Are you for real? Every country has a detailed explanation if you click on it. You made the claim that all third world countries were capitalistic, now prove it.My point is, whatever those countries say, the ones that are poor, will inevitably suffer from lack of freedom.I mean, go to the bottom by overall index and start looking at economic policies.
>>10719782>People can't realize what's poisoning them?If the poison is acting slowly enough, sure, obviously.
>>10719796So you literally cannot detect that you're becoming overweight?Kidding aside, becoming fat is an individual choice, a reflection of the values someone holds. They think that the short term comfort food brings is more valuable than the long term comfort of not being fat. You cannot control this unless you ration food on a per-person basis.
>>10719788>You made the claim that most third world countries were capitalistic, now prove it.Okay. They allow the accumulation of capital in private hands. Done.Now take a deep breath and relax and read what I wrote. They are capitalist. I didn't say they were free.I asked you : why do they lack freedom ?
>>10719809Because capitalism does not guarantee freedom. The causes vary by country, but are there in the index for you to browse. Methodologies and details included.Some examples: weak judiciary, weak property laws, government overreach, government corruption etc.If you mean on a causal basis, i. e., what causes lack of economic freedom: Then it's that in most cases freedom would mean less power in government hands. Since government workers are (mostly) the only ones in the position to reduce those powers, and people like power, most countries are not particularly free.I'm going to sleep now. If this thread is still up tomorrow, I'll respond again, if you have questions.
>>10719782>Imagine being this retardedFood poisoning takes time to isolate and I don't have to associate myself with my business. If I really wanted I could install a Patsy at the head of my company so that I'm entirely isolated from every scandel.>I have said and reiterated multiple times that property laws and rule of law is importantThat's not an environmental regulation. Sounds like there's more important regulations than simply where to dump your chemical waste
>>10719803You asked about what's poisoning them, not about if they're poisoned.Noticing that you're getting fat is easy, understanding why is harder. In any case, individual choices are not individual. Our every move depends on the rest of the world. Eating junk food for example is highly influenced by local culture and economics. The people who sell it think with good reasons that they can in fact control this, up to a point of course, with various commercial practices. Conversely, the state can control this too with education, and regulations. Rationing is possible but not necessary.
>>10719766>If you think crises in one country won’t affect your economyYeah, I am sure economy of Poland is very closely connected to Africa.
>>10719839The US is probably going to go full expansionist once the midest's crops fail desu
>>10719267kek this. Once the caps come out you know they're gonna say something especially stupid
>>10719605Okay bro, society is going to collapse any day now. Keep likening yourself to a clown though, it makes for some great comedy for the rest of us "doomed" individuals
>>10719824>Then it's that in most cases freedom would mean less power in government hands.Weak justice, weak laws and corruption mean weak state and thus weak government.China, since you used it as an example, "freed" its economy but didn't reduce the power of the government.I'll go to my point : lack of economic freedom in poor capitalist countries originate from basic lack of cooperation between citizens. From the top of the state to the bottom of society, it's the "each man for himself" mentality that prevents the slow build up of prosperity.
if that's scientifically backed it's a pretty good argument for nationalists in eu
>>10717623enforcement of ownership is militaristic, but removal of ownership does not stop militarism. Just because no one "owns" it, people will still violently compete for its use
>>10719898Weak justice, weak laws and corruption are symptoms of a "strong" government, not a weak one. Precisely because these things are in the hands of the leader and not institutions, they are powerful.The state might be "weak"/poor to the extent that the powerful leader's caprice interferes with private commerce and economic freedoms.china is a perfect example of the "each man for himself" mentality though. A low trust society that still manages to be very effective because the party is committed to laws that grant just enough economic freedom for capitalism.
>>10719979>Weak justice, weak laws and corruption are symptoms of a "strong" government, not a weak one.How do you come up with this crap? Corporations should be implementing justice, and making laws?
>>10719979market worshipers are the ultimate consumers. fucking garbage. sucker punchers.They're our courageous crusaders for free-for-all gluttony, and ruthless individualist competition, which is exactly the opposite of what humanity needs to avoid extinction.
>>10719764>>10719711No their prosperity was 100% because they "freed" the market, from its previous state of being more controlled.Whether that was removing socialism of pre-80s, or gutting inefficient state owned enterprises in 90s.Some of the ways their markets are more free than the west, such low minimum wage, have also given them competitive advantages.That said obviously you don't want a "fully free market" since it would be hell for everyone except the most brutal capitalists. Most of china's horror stories are due to lack of regulation, for instance pollution, deaths from lack of safety standards, rat-meat vendors in GZ, baby powder, people dying from fake medicine advertised on baidu, etcRegulation is good and desirable but make no mistake in general,free markets = efficiency = economic prosperity
>>10719842>The US is probably going to go full expansionist once the midest's crops fail desuCanada is closer.Also it's not like crops will fail alltogether.There will be change of agricultural products for varieties better suited for new climate, genetic engineering, closed vertical farming and so on.USA has enough technology to offset the drop of agricultural production-btw some of regions in USA will actually benefit.
>>10717473>hint: india is hit as poorly as brazil>hint 2: india has nuclear weaponsHint:it will be entertaining to see war between Pakistan and India on my Polish television.Might even cool the weather for 10 years or so kek
>>10716881Holy fuck I love global warming so much
Bye bye Third World, it was (not)nice knowing you
I am tired of WINNING
>>10719991Don't get me wrong I think an independent judiciary is ideal, but surely you can see how a government that isn't subjected to one (for instance, CCP, monarchs, dictators) is "stronger" than one that is.By corruption I mean things like granting monopoly licenses (CCP, medieval kings) as a political tool, rather than fairly.Compared to these, US government is a "weaker" government in that its corruption is letting itself be ruled/governed by money instead of the other way around. (corporate lobbying etc)>>10720005you're mostly off-base about my personal beliefs, i'd rather be a leftist since I wasn't born rich, but I'm trying to be realistic at the same time>opposite of what humanity needs to avoid extinction.humanity is not going "extinct" from global warming. Maybe a billion die and capitalists become more authoritarian.
did someone say "climate change"?
>>10720061fair enough>humanity is not going "extinct" from global warming.I didnt say it would. I'm more concerned about rampant consumerism desu.
>>10720061and don't equate corruption with strong government. they're totally unrelated
>>10720035>>10720051>>10720059>>10720067When you're so useless that you need others to suffer to feel better about yourself. You will be the first to be replaced by the refugees, hate to break it to you.
>>10719979But no, these things are not in the hands of the leader. He can't just decree one day that civil servants must be corrupt. He can't decree that the police and judges must follow his wishes instead of the commong good, because obeying that presupposes that they're already following his wishes.So he can just take advantage of the preexisting weakness of the state. And that weakness is constituted by the lack of cooperation between members of the society, by people expecting better results from defending personal interests instead of common interests.I dunno if you're the other anon, but government worker's surest way to gain power is to maintain a legal order and limit corruption and arbitrary decisions, to strengthen the institutions they are part of and provide a stable environment for their peers.That's why the european bourgeoisie supported republics over monarchies.
>>10720093>You will be the first to be replaced by the refugees, hate to break it to you.Literally SEETHING Third Worlder
>>10720022>That said obviously you don't want a "fully free market">in general,free markets = efficiency = economic prosperityOne of these things is not like the other, one of these things is free!
>>10720099Those things are in the hands of the leader of a strong government, such as a monarch. They are not in the hands of a leader of a weak government such as a President.>And that weakness is constituted by the lack of cooperation between members of the society, by people expecting better results What makes you so sure democracy is a strength?The government worker's surest way to gain power is to promise people ever greater amounts of "common good". It doesn't matter how feasible these promises are in reality. It's certainly a better sell than a platform of "vote for me so I can maintain the status quo and have even less executive power"Nor are you particularly held responsible for your failed promises or selling out your country, since most of your power was diffused into nebulous workings of your "strong state", and you'll be replaced in 4 years anyways.>limit corruptionGood luck banning lobbying
>>10716881Because we don't live in a society.What you call the American public is a status economy.
>>10720220Maybe I'm misunderstanding you:If all you care about is economic prosperity and don't care about human well-being, you do want a fully free market.One poison food factory will kill some people and go out of business, but the flip side is all the non-poisonous food factories and the government is less burdened by the costs of imposing regulations
>>10720280>One poison food factory will kill some people and go out of business, but the flip side is all the non-poisonous food factories and the government is less burdened by the costs of imposing regulationsNone of this reflects the actual real world.
>>10720073Consumerism and capitalism is the un-repressed human condition. The will of the individual manifest in material. The marxists were right - your movement to put capital back in a collectivist cage will not work unless it's international. Hopefully enough countries will be able to agree to a global carbon tax, with tariffs on non-participating countries and proceeds going towards clean energy financing and research.>>10720081the word corruption refers to so many different things it's kinda hard to work with.
>>10720307Why do you say so?
>>107203191. consumers are not omniscient2. people lie3. addictive chemicals exist
>>10717023Except according to social darwinism people like you are bottom of the barrel trash so it would suck for you you fucking cuck
>>10720314The capitalist class fucked up. They still depend on workers but took too long to make them obsolete, so what's most likely is when the third world becomes even worse we will see the rise of socialist states and mass revolution in the third and second world. The US wont be able to maintain its state based on economic imperialism any longer and will crumble from its position as a super power with China and a shit ton of small socialist nations filling the void as planned economies are the only powers which could even hope to survive large scale economic collapse.People seem to forget how much we depend on the cheap producers in the southern hemisphere, and they wont be able to produce for us much longer.
>>107203701. If people are dying from eating poisonous food, the media, social or otherwise, will definitely report on it2. Legitimate businesses have no problem providing their identity so that the scammers among them can be held to account and receive less/no business in the future.3. Addictive chemicals are a capitalist's wet dream. Compared to a free to play video games, if you want a cocaine/opium habit, you're gonna have to pay for it
>>10716881According to your map, less than 10% of the world's gdp will see little to mediocre growth while 90% of the gdp will shrink by little to half. So even if your gdp is fine you'll have few partners to trade with. Even if Russia's gdp per capita grows, it'll probably still come out behind the US after the US shrinks. Any benefit that map shows will be gravely offset by everything else.
>>10720433>the media ... will definitely report on itYou can pay for positive coverage and change your name if you get in too deep.>the scammers among them can be held to accountThe scammers can just lie and say they are legitimate.>Addictive chemicals are a capitalist's wet dream.I don't see how you think this proves your point.
>>10720402>gambles your country's future away speculating on oil pricesPssh, nothing personel, kid.
>>10720280>Maybe I'm misunderstanding you:You most definitely are>One poison food factory will kill some people and go out of businessNot historically.Let me make this simple for you: regulations good, free market bad.
>>10720558>he's a reactionaryHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>10720314>Consumerism and capitalism is the un-repressed human condition.I'm sure "smash your neighbor's skull if he has what you want" was once the human condition not too long ago (before written history). We evolved above that to become a better species. We will have to do so once again.
>>10720314>a global carbon taxnot anywhere near enough to get us through the current era, because a carbon tax does absolutely nothing to repress the base human emotions that drive consumerism
>>10720314>a global carbon taxalso, assuming the carbon tax does actually succeed and global warming is no longer a problem. We still have other serious problems like deforestation, top-soil depletion, polluted rivers and land, and loss of biodiversity which are mostly related more to development than climate change.
>>10716881"compared to a world without climate change". No such thing.
>>10720625>b-but its not REAL socialismAlways.. Let me gauss, real socialism has NEVER been tried?
>>10719825>Food poisoning takes time to isolate and I don't have to associate myself with my business. If I really wanted I could install a Patsy at the head of my company so that I'm entirely isolated from every scandel.Yeah, and if you work this fantasy even longer, you'll realize it isn't really worth it, and you stand to profit more if you simply ensure a safe product.>That's not an environmental regulation. Sounds like there's more important regulations than simply where to dump your chemical wasteMurder, for example, isn't punished by economic regulations. It is punished by criminal law. So is knowingly poisoning people.>>10719827>In any case, individual choices are not individual.Yes, they are. Nobody's forcing your hand. The fact that some people of some backgrounds and environments do some things less and others more, does not mean that those are their only available options.All those controlling factors you're talking about bring about statistical changes, not hard connections like commit murder -> go to prison.That is actually a freedom-restricting function of the government that happens, and is necessary.>>10719898You're taking weak way too literally. In this case, weak means not fully, or evenly enforced, or not built up properly. There's no sliding scale of "law strength", where you have a scientific unit of how strong it is.>but didn't reduce the power of the governmentOf course they did. They stopped planning the economy, and let people amass money and power. They let go of a lot of powers.>"each man for himself" mentality that prevents the slow build up of prosperityThat mentality is incredibly useful in a country with well-enforced property laws and rule of law. It's how the US became a superpower.Seriously, read the Georgia book, it's a first hand account of these things.>>10719979^This was not me.
>>10720780>it's another anon needs a strawman episodeVenezuela doesn't call itself socialist you dumb fuck, why would you? Its economy doesn't even resemble that of a socialist nation's.
>>10720862The state is a smaller amount of its economy than Norway
>>10720871Exactly, and even Norway doesn't call itself socialist because it isn't. If the means of production aren't owned by the workers then by definition it isn't socialist. I don't get why that concept is so hard to grasp for crossboarders.
>>10720782>you stand to profit more if you simply ensure a safe productImagine being this delusional. Even today with the regulations America has protecting food there are multiple companies that simply open a new location, ignore all regulations, and when they get shut down they simply open a new one. It's cheaper to abuse your customers than it is to obey regulations.>Murder, for example, isn't punished by economic regulations. It is punished by criminal law.Economic regulations are laws moron>So is knowingly poisoning people.Only thanks to the FDA which is a regulatory body. You obviously haven't googled "buyer beware"You can jerk off to the idea of a just-free-enough market all you want, but what you really want is economic mobility, not economic freedom.
>>10720782>Yeah, and if you work this fantasy even longer, you'll realize it isn't really worth it, and you stand to profit more if you simply ensure a safe product.This simply isn't true. It's much cheaper to try and get away with things by cutting corners than it is to actually ensure a safe product. Look at the constant exploits in intel processors, constant food scandals in the US, constant failure of safety features in various products, etc. Profit doesn't care about quality, it's common sense.
>>10717681Each time interval is a data point.
>>10716881I bet op is American
>>10720782>It's how the US became a superpower.Lol, the US became a superpower because of geography, geology, and nationalizing assets the monarchies of Europe funded.
>>10716916Who cares about poland and hungary?
>>10721313starving people, which will include you soon Pajeeto
>>10716881This is why. The Syrian Civil War started basically because of climate change. They had a population just over 20 million at the time. Look at how annoying and chaotic those migrations were.Now imagine the majority of the populations of India, Africa, and the Middle East having to go on the move after the worst effects of climate change eradicate their ways of life. That's almost 3 billion people going on this move.We will not survive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse
>>10716881The air quality is well is what you should care about:"If the air is clean, shrubby, hairy and leafy lichens become abundant. A few lichen species can tolerate quite high levels of pollution and are commonly found on pavements, walls and tree bark in urban areas."
>>10720878>first pointAny examples? Backed up by sources, of course.>secondRegulations are subsets of laws. The notion that the criminalization of murder is an economic regulation is patently false.>thirdNo, poisoning people is murder, see point two.In your mind, what is the difference between economic mobility and freedom?>>10720887>Look at the constant exploits in intel processorsYou mean one of the prime reasons why they're rapidly losing market share? Yeah, sure worked out for them.>constant food scandals in the USUS citizens have among THE easiest access to high quality food in the world.Customers care about quality, and customers provide profits.>>10721039>Lol, the US became a superpower because of geography, geology,Russia has just as much, if not more natural resources, and a huge territory. Explain why their GDP per person is so much lower, then.> and nationalizing assets the monarchies of Europe funded.What?In conclusion, literally every single time (except when oil is involved) in modern history where there was large scale reduction in poverty, there was a large scale expansion in economic liberty. If you do not support economic liberty, you hate poor people.
>>10720878>what you really want is economic mobility, not economic freedomI don't know much about economics, can you explain the difference to me? Thanks
>>10721856Economic freedom is lack of regulation. If I'm economically free I can sell slaves and other people's shit. Economic mobility is the ease with which you move through economic standings. Low economic mobility keeps the poor poor and the rich rich, and high economic mobility is what people typically think of as the "free market" wherein bad actors are stripped of their wealth and anyone can start from nothing and become rich.
>>10721739>Any examples?Sure, I'll use a local example. Here in Salt Lake City, Utah there is a Mexican restaurant that used to be known as Beto's. They open a new location every couple of months to replace the one that gets shut down because they made too many people sick. They moved away from the name Beto's and became Berto's and then when they needed to move away from that name they went with Mesquite. Business is booming.>Regulations are subsets of laws. The notion that the criminalization of murder is an economic regulation is patently falseTell that to the free market which has no laws>No, poisoning people is murder, see point twoYou are retarded. Do you know what the FDA is?>You mean one of the prime reasons why they're rapidly losing market share? Yeah, sure worked out for them.That's false. Intel is still top dog and any business they've lost is to their long-time competitor AMD. Besides that BMW blatantly designed a product to circumvent existing regulations and lied in order to aquire a certification that made their product more valuable. Guess who managed to turn a profit from that scandal? Guess what affect it had on their reputation?
>>10721883Oh okay thanks
>>10721898>They moved away from the name Beto's and became Berto'sGenius
>>10721954Honestly it confused the fuck out of me. Like half the people I know started calling it Berto's but they were all at the same locations and the sign was almost identical.
>>10721898Ok, so an anecdote, plus a heaping pile of fresh strawmen.>any business they've lost is to their long-time competitor AMDAnd that invalidates my point how?>Guess what affect it had on their reputation?So, the customers have collectively decided that they don't care about regulations. I don't see the problem.Besides, you're constantly talking about how important regulations are, while simultaneously detailing how they do not work.I hope you'll eventually learn to keep a more open mind and actually start looking at evidence instead of resorting to prejudices and half-truths. Good night, and God bless.
>>10722312>Asks for a real world example>"That's an anecdote and therefore not valid"Wew, lad>And that invalidates my point how?AMD has been taking a larger part of Intel's market due to their new products and marketing, not because of any scandals on Intel's part>So, the customers have collectively decided that they don't care about regulations. I don't see the problem.The vehicles were bought and sold under the pretense of being ultra-low emission vehicles which was an outright lie to exploit consumers. If you don't see a problem with this then I have a bunch of "high grade" "beef" to sell you.>Besides, you're constantly talking about how important regulations are, while simultaneously detailing how they do not work.You must have the reading comprehension of a toddler>I hope you'll eventually learn to keep a more open mind and actually start looking at evidence instead of resorting to prejudices and half-truths. Good night, and God bless.The irony
>>10719095But, a lower global "standard of living" would literally save the planet. More ecofriendly tech, and a lot less of it. Less watching and reading bullshit and more doing and more relaxing. The rat race productivity cult of the west will, and should, die out with our overdependence on technology, and we will make a new society where we are not at odds with nature, but ride it like majestic steed to the stars and beyond, where we don't conquer and destroy planets, but rather, make them thrive...
>>10722359Do you think in the last 9 years they suddenly publicized everything? Are you stupid? They've continued to privatize things further.
>>10720625>n-no the problem was that they didn't give ENOUGH power to the central government!>i-i-if they just gave more power to the government, the government wouldn't have fucked things up!lmao imagine believing this
>>10722856>Are you stupid? Yes I am actually. Please check your smart-privilege.