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Why is schizophrenia so hard to treat?
>>
A big problem is that the nature of illness itself makes the people with the disease not want treatment. They think the doctors are part of a conspiracy and that the pills are sinister.
For other diseases, people are usually willing and even enthusiastic to take medication if they think it will cure their problems. The most important part of treating almost anything is patient cooperation.
>>
>>10644648
I've stayed in boarding houses for about the last year, with many people with intractable schizophrenia, who are taking medications like risperidone, zyprexa, depakote, etc. these people are never gonna get better. its sad, it just makes me wonder why. I get what you're saying though. it do be like that
>>
>>10644639
>Why is schizophrenia so hard to treat?
Because it's not real, mental disorders are pseudoscientific /x/-tier nonsense
>>
>>10644770
k, tell that to the actual brain chemistry differences that are observed in people with schizophrenia.
>>
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Because a imaginary disease that shows up on brain chemicals is treated as physical illness.
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>>10644658
Because every body is different and even with one person their body can dramatically change to effect to effect the power of the meds. Not to mention the medications effect on the body with it's side effects. Medicating people is more an art then a science (not to say there is not science at all, there' s a ton!) because you are dealing with people and that adds a ton of variables in medicating.
>>
>>10644837
Like wow some of the side effects of the meds are basically
>hey, you wanna lose your left testicle or your right knee cap?
where you trade off for other bodily issues is heavy and many don't have a choice because the alternative is worse or going medication free.
>>
>>10644639
Because psychiatry is pseudoscience and there is quite possibly no such a thing, as basically anything can be called schizophrenia. It's a wide assortment of diseases, from brain infections, untreated sleep disorders, nutrient deficiencies, brain damage, to people with autism who never got any help.
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>>10644770
my brother has schizophrenia, almost kills my mom, because he doesn't wanted to take the pills
>>
>>10644648
Pills, especially for psychiatric treatment, are usually some of the least effective ways to treat any disease, its usually lifestyle and dietary changes that are necessary for most physical disorders and modern doctors are so rigid and bureaucratic for the sake of litigation avoidance that they have become some of the least effective caregivers in history.
>>
>>10644639
It's hard to properly re-wire a brain when you don't know to make one in the first place. The best option is a group of drugs that mostly just shut the brain off to prevent the wrong neurons from being used.
>>
>>10644809
Based retard.
>>
>>10644854
>calls psychiatry bs
>but autism still exists somehow
>>
>>10644648
>They think the doctors are part of a conspiracy and that the pills are sinister
Well, they aren't wrong
>>
>>10644648

this is the reason why psychiatry and psychology is a scam that should be abolished immediately
somebody could literally just make up everything and be diagnosed with a mental illness and remain locked up forever
>>
>>10645029
To be fair, Autism is a psychology profile and psychology is simply the scientific labeling of behavior profiles.

Psychiatry is not the same as psychology, it is about defining psychological "disorders" and developing medicines for their "treatment".
>>
>>10644639
Because it's not a real disease. "Treatment" with antipsychotics AKA major tranquilizers is more to help everyone else around the patient by chemically lobotomizing them so they're at least quiet.
>>
>>10644882
fuck off back to eating onions on /fit/
>>
>>10645058
Take your pills and come back when you have calmed down, cuck.
>>
>>10644648
Antipsychotics infortunately come with a host of side effects including mental fog, weight gain, fatigue, akithisia, and liver damage from prolongued heavy use. While the medication may be effective in suppressing some symptoms of schizophrenia, the side effects will prevent even the most motivated person from living any semblance of a normal productive life. At that point, you start to understand why some patients might not want to take the pills. Lots of discomfort for little improvement in the quality of life. Although psychiatry has historically (at least in practice) never been about helping the sick, but rather its focus has always been to make the sick as little of a nuisance as possible for his handlers.
>>
>>10645073
People don't take them because they never had e delusions others say they have. It's all the others who have a problem and misunderstand everything, as something in their brain has the opposite effect it should have. It starts by ten, when children start getting irony and other "adult" stuff and lose the ability to communicate with anybody who is not affected. If you think you can see or sense when people are lying to you, you have psychosis, as that is not possible.
>>
>>10645054
>because it’s not a real disease
Care to justify that?
Not having an effective treatment doesn’t mean it isn’t a disease.
>>
>>10644648
schizo here

the meds are too side effect heavy for any us of to stay on them too long. compliance rates even with side effect light medications such as cholesterol or blood pressure meds aren't that high to begin with. it's no wonder schizos would rather walk down the street talking to themselves than stay on these meds.

if society had any real compassion they'd just euthanize us all en masse. instead we're kept alive so pharma companies can make money along with dozens of mental health care professionals.
>>
>>10644658
This isn't star trek. We know almost nothing about the brain or how to treat severe mental illness. We do the best we can with the research and technology we have.
>>
>>10644879
>that atrocious grammar
You must be 18 to post here.
>>
>>10645148
Can you even cite an official government or medical association backed source that specifically calls it a disease rather than generalizing it as a disorder?

Not having an effective understanding of a disorder means it isn't a disease because a disease is defined as a disorder of a specific part of the body, not just general behavioral abnormalities.
>>
why is truth so hard to comprehend?
why is self-awareness so hard?
why is meta-metacognition so hard?
why is peace, calm and tranquility so diffiicult?
mystery of the ages
>>
Why is life hard?
>>
>>10644639
Because its like autism and isn't something we should try to "treat" it's a trait that people should realize they have and roll with it.
>>
>>10644639
Not schizophrenic but have a collection of antipsychotics I'm supposed to have taken. When I did take it I was constantly tired and it gave me dense mind fog. I can understand why people don't want to take it, being unhinged is one thing but being in the passanger seat of a zombie body is another.
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>>10644809

True reality.
>>
Diagnosed with schizophrenia in 2016, now on only one actual med.
It's not bad if you can control it and still enjoy yourself.
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>>10644639
Every mental illness is hard to treat. Just look at the effect sizes, they're all moderate at best.
>>
>>10644770
>Because it's not real, mental disorders are pseudoscientific /x/-tier nonsense
ironically this post is exactly the thing it accuses
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why not just let the mentally ill shoot heroin and do hard core drugs all day? seems the only way to alleviate their suffering. calming them down with opiates seems much better than loading them up with anti psychotics.
>>
>>10644639
Why is a tree without roots so hard to plant?
>>
>>10645492
because you can't patent heroin and then go public for billions of dollars
>>
>>10645113
Based!
>>
>>10645492
>lets just get them addicted to heroin and cocaine, not like there are any mental side effects
>>
>>10645531
>worrying about people who already have scrambled brains scrambling their brains
give me one (1) good reason a certified schizo shouldn't spend his last remaining days in a euphoric opiate induced haze
>>
>>10645540
The dude you're replying to doesn't know the magic of opiates and thus is vehemently, adamantly against them and all other drugs.

He's a straight edge pussy.
>>
>>10644639
Schizophrenia doesn't exist.
You can diagnose anyone a schizophrenia
>URSS political opponents
>Autists (in France for instance)
>/x/ posters on /sci/
>/pol/ conspirationnists

As long as mind reading is not invented, psychiatrists should kill themselves.
They are bad psychologists and bad medical doctors.
>>
>>10645053
I like you post anon.
>>
>>10645044
Ah yes, the field of psychiatry is bunk because some imbecile might fake a mental illness for years on end (which is way harder than you think). Just like how rehab is bunk because someone might fake an addiction.
>>
>>10645610
No, what happens is : a psychiatrist diagnoses that imbecile an "illness" and circlejerk with other psychiatrists talking about pharmacological, psychanalytical or some other kind of bullshit theories while ruining the "ill" person's health.
>>
>>10644639
it isn't APs are very effective, cooperation is the issue, most schizos have delusions and will avoid treatment or not even realize they're ill and even if you accept treatment APs get worse over time, after a few months you just feel like you're watching a movie if 'living' on meds just feels like watching a dull movie what's the point, the most helpful things I've found
>healthy sleep schedule
>exercise
>good diet
>social interaction

mental hospitals aren't fun but the best thing they teach you is order and routine - my doctors don't feel I need meds right now and I feel happy
>>
>>10644882
>>>/bro/science
>>
>>10645587
>/x/ posters on /sci/
>/pol/ conspirationists
Gonna go out on a limb and say that plenty of them are genuinely schizophrenic.
>>
>>10645665
>after a few months you just feel like you're watching a movie if 'living' on meds just feels like watching a dull movie
>>10645287
>but being in the passanger seat of a zombie body is another.

You are "supposed to" be like that. Have you never noticed people talking about doing things on autopilot, or their brain doing stuff? This is what makes you neurotypical.

>>10645610
It is bunk because there is no real way to diagnose anything and the field as a whole has near 0 scientific basis.
>>
>>10645688
>You are "supposed to" be like that.
I honestly doubt this, how do normies live if this is true?
>>
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>>10645148
>Care to justify that?
Schizophrenia is not diagnosed through any physical findings. It's purely diagnosed on the basis of a psychiatrist's opinion of whether or not a patient displays enough of the behaviors in their checklist to count. Studies have been done to try to show relationships between that diagnosis and physical attributes of the brain, but none of this is used for actual diagnosis.
And in fact you couldn't use brain scans for actual diagnosis even if you wanted to because there isn't enough difference between the brain features associated with that diagnosis and the brain features associated with distinct other psychiatric diagnoses.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/hbm.23486
If it were genuinely a physically real disease of its own per the evidence provided by these brain scan studies, then you would, at an absolute minimum, be able to distinguish it from other psychiatric diagnoses through these brain scans. And in fact, you cannot make that distinction through brain scan. The findings meant to show evidence of a real physical condition fail the reverse inference test and nobody can use these findings as a basis for brain scan based diagnosis for that reason.
>>
>>10645692
>>You are "supposed to" be like that.
>I honestly doubt this, how do normies live if this is true?

They live watching their life going on autopilot most of the time. They actually find you very jarring if your behavior doesn't go on patterns, you greatly stand out anywhere you go as a person who is fully conscious as people are used to learn each other's patterns and not cae until something unusual pops out.
>>
>>10645277
>Implying there is no correlation between a person's ability to detoxify heavy metals and excitotoxins (as SNPs like MTHFR and COMT denote) and one's propensity for mental illness.
It is that way of thinking that inhibits the proper treatment of such disorders.
T. Cured "Schizophrenic" who is pursuing psychiatry.
>>
>>10645334
can you describe your experience with the illness?
>>
>>10645861
>detoxify heavy metals
It would be cured by chelation if that was the case.
>>
>>10645891
I don't know, can you?
>>
>>10645907
Not cured, since psychosis is usually rendered by multiple variables, but it significantly helps in specific instances. Oddly, it is not applied in treatment regimens, perhaps because there is no systematic chelation process developed for such a purpose.
Also, chelation would not fix the underlying methylation dysfunction (which can be attributed to high amounts of folic acid found within many processed foods, and cant be tolerated by those with the MTHFR SNP).
I am not reducing schizophrenia solely to these variables, but the treatment of these issues do seem effective.
I'm sorry I'm not posting citations, as I'm currently travelling. I will post the studies once I have time.
>>
keto diets, the kind they put epileptics on, have also caused schizos to go into full remission meds free
>>
>>10645499
the oxycontin ppl would like a word
>>
>>10645676
they truly are, I was in a thread once where an /x/ poster was describing his delusions, and other posters were like nah brah that's just synchronicity its just god talking to you relax. they're all delusional
>>
>>10645698
ok but what mental disorder can you identify through brain scans alone? that sounds really sketch, I doubt there are any. and any way, the chemical differences are what cause schizophrenia, dopamine antagonists and shit I'm too stupid to fully comprehend. I doubt that shit shows up on a CT scan
>>
>>10645698
wtf, I won't even read the paper of the retard who made that graph, how can you fuck up readability that much
>>
>>10646033
>ok but what mental disorder can you identify through brain scans alone?
None, that's the point. They aren't coherently defined physical diseases. They're opinions based on checkboxes.
>>
>>10646105
What the fuck are you talking about? Also that's not some random retard. That failure to find diagnosis accuracy through reverse inference of MRIs was a pretty fucking major landmark study.
>>
>>10645861
how did you cure your "schizophrenia"? what did you try/do?
>>
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>>10644639
>>
>>10645272
it's easy. we make it hard for ourselves and others. we overcomplicate things. but life is pretty simple stuff, once you peel back the matrix.
some schizophrenia can by caused by double binds, which is other peoples behaviour often not consciously intentional.
philosimply not philosophistry..
>>
>>10644882
truth. yeah, doctors are nearly useless.
random story but once i was exploring an old abandoned mental hospital and broke open a cupboard to find a leaflet about nutrititon treating schizophrenia
>>
>>10644882
True, how the fuck can all these years spent studying by psychiatrists be so useless ?
They know only bullshit about mental health and they don't even care about more general health issues.
How the fuck can a medical doctor prefer to keep someone "healthy" but dying at 30 because he's overweight, has diabetes and cardiovascular issues, over "ill" but living 80+ years
If they genuinely believe what they "learned" and that they are helping their patients they are subhuman retarded piles of scum.
>>
>>10645531
Side effects are withdrawn related.

I take a powerfu!l opiate daily and my mom. And bro are schizo.I'd be too without opiates
>>
>>10644639
The emergent processes of neurons are beyond our understanding, current treatment is having a non-shitty environment and trying drugs until they work.
>>
>>10644770
Take your pills /pol/ friend.
>>
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>>10645151
JFC that's a depressing and black pilled way of looking at it
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>>10644639
Because no one knows wtf is going on when it comes to mental illness. It's not as clear cut as cancer, for example.
>>
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>>10644639
Go to /X/ and see for yourself
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>>10644639
Why is what so hard to treat?
>>
>>10644648
You're forgetting to mention these drugs have notable side effects and have to be taken for life.
>>
https://pastebin.com/0pTFVHPx
>>
>>10647247
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IehtMYlOuIk
>>
>>10647293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmHRldL21-4

would you rather be schizo or manic depressive?
>>
>>10645151
>if society had any real compassion they'd just euthanize us all en masse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjeBaBFWqw

but seriously, at the time of aktion t4 how was euthanasia considered the *LESS* humane option?
>>
>>10647247
Are you implying that cough syrup dosing is the best cure for Schizo behavior?
>>
>>10647306
Already am manic depressive. Currently I'm pretty depressed, contemplated killing myself for a couple hours today. Still, I would much rather be bipolar than schizophrenic. Schizophrenia has to be the scariest disorder fathomable.
>>
>>10644639
We don't understand the brain well enough.
>>
>>10647247
taking an NMDA antagonist like DXM would serve to make NMDA receptor "hypofunction" more severe. Also antipsychotics don't target serotonin receptors (although some do act as antagonists of them such as clozapine), many antipsychotics are antagonists of dopamine receptors.
>>
>>10645044
...you know you don't get locked up anywhere anymore unless you put yourself/others in danger or try to take your own life, right?
>>
>>10645499
Bayer disagrees
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>>10645587
Uh-uh, have you take your medications today, anon?
>>
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>>10645698
You mean to say that before brain scans were invented any sort of neurological disease didn't exist too?
We just don't know yet what causes mental illness and how we can measure it objectively but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, man
>>
>>10644648
I have a friend that has schizophrenia and he came to the conclusion that doctors are not trying to cure their patients since it's more profitable for them after 14 or so years of taking pills that apparently didn't work. Several psychiatrists were giving him stuff that never worked as they said, and in his visions, the side effects were worst than the schizophrenia itself. He developed sleeping problems and even some anxiety issues after changing the drugs, so... I'm not sure if the paranoia increases the difficulty of finding a proper treatment... It's probably the other way around
>>
>>10644639
Dat jlaw tho
>>
>>10646116
Sorry for making you mad, obviously he is not a retard and his research is probably good, the graph just is unreadable.
>>
Schzophr. Can only be healed destructively or co-operation, and co-operation requires highly artistic medicating, like direct input in mind for to shake energy parasites.
>>
>>10644639
Schizophrenics need to be humanely euthanized. That's no way to live.
>>
>>10648156
Reap what you sow.
>>
>>10644770
Everyone ignore this guy
>>
>>10644882
t. hippie
>>
>>10644639
I'm no doktor, but if the nature of the illness is degenerative neural function, I'd imagine the cure would be functioning "limitless pills". And if we had that, and could readily administer it to these people, it would only end up being a high commodity for those who would abuse it for obvious reasons - making something out of Africa
>>
>>10644648
Ummm but naturalnews said medicine is bad so it is okay? Have sex
>>
People need friends and love, not pills. Read the new testament and praise Jesus!
>>
>>10647556
>Ctrlf
>Only 3 people mentioned the fact that the most effective antipsychotics target mainly dopaminine pathways of which their are 3 main ones(one for prolactin inhibitor, one for coordinated movement, and one for coordinated mentation). Not to mention the egregious side effect profiles even outside these 3 main pathways: decrease immune cells, metabolic derangements etc.
Not to mention it is such a stigmatized disease so many aee ashamed to admit they take medication for it or to let anyone get the slightest idea.
I gotta say, I'm disappointed/sci/
>>
>>10645573
>dude don't be a coward give yourself brain damage lmao
>>
>>10648696
>bro all we need to cure schizophrenia and Africans is fucking magic
>>
>>10644639
Why is dissociative identity disorder so hard to treat?
>>
>>10644770

>undying paranoia
>cant hold a job bc of constant, terrifying, and uncontrollable thoughts
>take a sleu of meds to help but all they do is make you stupid, lazy, tired, or some combo of all three.
>currently taking Lithium, the strongest psych med available
>isnt a real disorder

t.schizo
>>
>>10645035
schizo detected
>>
>>10644639
because it doesn't exist
>>
>>10644770
>>10644809
.t retards
>>
>>10644879
Based gibberish poster
>>10645035
.t retard
>>
>>10648800
based
>>
>>10648783
They need both
>>
>>10644770
this,

also add that 'mental illnesses' are extremely convenient methods of social control applied to those that are not 'with the program' the elites want to impose from top-down...

check soviet history, it's all be done before and perfected later in america.
>>
read your thomas szasz brainlets
>>
>>10644658
lol why won't they get better?

step back and look around, it's because they're taking these fucked up pills created by for-profit corporations, what the fuck is a risperidone yprexa depakakakaktoteke,

are you fucking stupid?
>>
>>10650810
first part, yes. friends and love, i can take the new testament or leave it.
>>
>>10650589
yea right.

i wonder how for thousands upon thousands of years humans got by without all these chemicals...i think just fine. in fact, things have never been uglier for man since corporate chemicals entered the food chain.
>>
I'm going to throw in my two cents a police officer, mental health/ crisis professional, and aspiring psychiatrist. The majority of you people have never spoken to or one on one had a conversation with someone suffering from Schizophrenia. You likely have never had to directly deal with someone experiencing severe psychosis or excited delirium. To say that these people are not suffering from quantifiable mental illnesses is heartlessness and extremely ignorant. To even postulate that you know how to help these people when you have never actually tried, is just foolish. Schizophrenia is real. People that experience are real and they need real help and there is nothing wrong with that. We all have biological deficits somewhere.
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>>10650826
this comment made me laugh
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>>10650835
add 'complete fucking moron' to that list

read your thomas szasz and learn something
>>
>>10650835
shit's not real bud. read thomas szasz.

there is no such thing as a mental illness, you cannot take a brain scan and point to a mental illness.

there are only behaviors that fall out of the mainstream, but they are not illnesses.

before for-profit corps started peddling a-new-chemical-a-day, most of the things you call 'illnesses' were what we call 'self-limiting', i.e., they resolved on their own after some time.

and illness or a disease is something you can observe under a microscope, so to speak. it's something you can see.

mental illness is just what you throw on someone that, more or less, doesn't drink beer on sundays and watch [insert retarded netflix show here] in binge sessions. you get the idea.

good on you for being a police officer, now save yourself and your life, and don't go into the psuedo science of psychiatry.
>>
>>10650835
and no, we don't all have biological deficits. we're all born just fine, except for edge cases of extreme physical deformities and things like down syndrome, etc.,

stop thinking so low of yourself and your fellow man.
>>
>>10650835
have you ever talked to a gypsy, a roma?

they're different totally from what we consider normal.

are they all schizophrenics or just a group of people with different norms and customs?
>>
>>10650860
Are you saying consciousness is also not real because you can't see it on an MRI?
>>10650863
You haven't had to fight and experience the worst of humanity. I think there is a serious lack of education when it comes to mental illness.
I agree that we have ancient minds that were not made for the modern world in which we live in. That being said, mental disorders are ancient as well and have been documented for thousands of years. They are as real as cancer and diabetes.
>>
>>10650871
people that behave differently than the norm simply behave differently than the norm.

there is no such thing as a mental illness.

pick a person that you think acts in a weird way, now if that person is never medicated with crazy psychotropic drugs, he or she will eventually return to the norm. if you start medicating him or her with crazy fucking chemicals produced by GIANT for-profit corporations, he's going to shoot up a school.

in fact, show me a case of a mass shooter that was stone cold sober and not under the influence of psychotropic drugs. you can't find one.
>>
>>10650870
Of course not. But someone who sees shadow people at the foot of their bed in the morning and in the corners of the rooms throughout the day doesn't have "different customs." Someone who sits in one place and defecates on themselves all day despite being able to carry on a conversation isn't practicing a tradition.
>>
>>10650871
that fucking worst of humanity you're talking about is fucked up on one substance or another. guaranteed.
>>
>>10650875
Open wide for the spoon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moncton_shooting
>>
>>10650878
ok i mean, i don't know who this fictional person is. i can make up some fictional person that does X and Y. this doesn't prove the existence of mental illness. and if that person exists, tell me their history of either legal or illegal drug use.
>>
>>10650880
>>10650875

I know a homeless man who loiters near restraunts where people will bring him food. He sits down until someone tells him he has to move or he will go to jail. He does not get up to use the bathroom, he does not use drugs, he does not get up to eat. His clothes are rotting off of his body. I once bought him a new pair of pants and he thanked me. I went back a few days later to check on him and he just had the same rotting pair of pants on. John can have a complete and coherent conversation with you. You can explain to him that he will eventually die of exposure and he will agree with you. He states he wants help yet will not accept it even if you carry him to it. He simply sits, eats, and shits. He isn't going to just return to the fucking norm.
>>
>>10645492
I am mentally ill and i have to say that benzos and heroin work MUCH better than any pills the doctors ever gave me. This dude is on to something.
>>
>>10650881
Quick google of his name and drugs reveals this, among other things:

"The Star reported that Bourque frequently used marijuana and had recently started taking harder drugs, such as heroin. He also bought a new shotgun in April, which he was proud about."

That's just one sign of substance abuse, who knows what this kid was on. I also wonder how many of these cases we have where psychiatric drug use is not mentioned because psychotropic drugs prescribed by a 'doctor' are assumed to be safe.
>>
>>10650884
ok, and? that's his choice, he probably doesn't need or want a lot, doesn't have ambition and is perfectly happy living like that. it doesn't mean his brain has a mental illness.
>>
>>10650891
doesn't sound like the worst of humanity to me, sounds like a loser i wouldn't wanna be friends with, but not 'the worst of humanity', i think just 'humanity' is fine.
>>
Some more: " Some friends feared that Bourque, a regular pot smoker, had turned to much harder substances, fuelling his paranoia."
>>
>>10650890
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/06/05/justin_bourque_wanted_to_go_out_with_a_bang_report.html

Weak sources. How about an arrest for possession? Or a blood test? Something stronger than "some friend's" testimonial conjecture and fears.

He's another https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting
No drug use.
>>
>>10650888
you're not mentally "ill", you need to stop doing drugs and accept that you're not happy with your life for whatever reason and just be sober and fix it.
>>
>>10650904
google "charles whitman psychiatrist"

the insidious influence of psychiatry is there.
>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald%27s_massacre

Autopsy results revealed there were no drugs or alcohol in his system at the time of the killings.
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>>10650909
>show me a case of a mass shooter that was stone cold sober and not under the influence of psychotropic drugs. you can't find one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_shootings#Perpetrator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting#Perpetrator

No alcohol or illegal drugs were detected in his system.
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>>10650835
Only non-retarded post in the thread so far.
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>>10650914
ok this devolved a little bit.

i still don't think any of these people had mental illnesses or diseases.
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>>10645698
Can we map brains neuron by neuron, with all connections?
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>>10650851
>implying you have a mouth
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>>10644639
Becuase it is a catch all for 100+ different brain problems
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>>10644639
This isn't to say I think schizophrenia doesn't exist as a discrete neurological condition. What follows is a VERY simplified gist.

Think of it like this: Given the complexity of the brain, is it possible that radically different causative variations in neurochemistry can result in the same set of symptoms to a human checking behavioral symptoms? This is why psychiatry will be in it's infancy forever unless rebuilt from the ground up.

There could be dozens of mechanically different origins behind a set of output behaviors. Can you treat 5 totally different mechanical flaws with the same mechanism? Of course not. If you tried, treatment would obviously suck. Hmm.

That's before you get to how the deeply subjective nature of psychiatric diagnosis in turn taints genetic studies of diagnosed populations. There are presumably people diagnosed who don't have schizophrenia, but some other condition that led to their diagnosis. So any attempt to add these data points to determine a genetic commonality is likely to get a long line of ridiculous results.

Sure you can speak of statistical averaging, but that won't give a single cause of behavior. You'd instead get multiple divergent origins and an academic fight over which one is the "actual" schizophrenia.

Is schizophrenia real? Yes. Can we really get anywhere further on treatment under the current limitations and restrictions. Probably not anytime soon.

For diagnosed anons:
Is this an excuse not to take your medicine? No, not really. If you are smart enough to understand any of this, go convince your doctor that you are an idiopathic case and would like to suck down very low dosage placebos to reduce side effect profiles.

Here is the painful part. If you can't convince a guy in a labcoat that you are sane then you probably aren't. None of this means it is due to schizophrenia, but something is off. Sorry.
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>>10645698
>And in fact you couldn't use brain scans for actual diagnosis even if you wanted to because there isn't enough difference between the brain features associated with that diagnosis and the brain features associated with distinct other psychiatric diagnoses.
are you sure? i remember hearing something about bipolar sufferers having decreased amounts of white matter in certain parts of the brain and schizos having an even more severe case of said decreased white matter
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>>10651131
>Is this an excuse not to take your medicine? No, not really.
I have a psychotic disorder. I am going to be honest with you I'd rather be dead than adhere to my regimen of anti psychotic meds. believe me I've tried. I just can't do it.
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>>10651140
Let me ask you a few things if you don't mind, anon. Some simple answers to these might help establish some context. Do you have a family history of psychiatric disorders? Was there a clear precipitating event before your first outbreak? At what age did your first outbreak occur? Keep the answers simple.
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>>10651238
>Do you have a family history of psychiatric disorders?
i have a cousin that is diagnosed schizophrenic. but he got diagnosed late in life (late 20s) and did a Herculean amount of drugs because he got mixed up in the club kids scene of the late 90s. other than that there is no clear family history. I've heard my grandpa was raised in an orphanage because his father died in a house fire after his wife died in childbirth. so there was probably some kind of mental illness there. my father has a pretty bad temper but nothing certifiable.
>Was there a clear precipitating event before your first outbreak?
just general life stress. happened in my senior year of high school. started a new job at a fancy restaurant as a waiter. also had college to worry about. and just general high school senior stress.
>At what age did your first outbreak occur?
one month after my 18th birthday
>Keep the answers simple.
i tried my best
>>
because you can sell a pill to somebody that figures out heaven and hell are on Earth
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>>10651270
Okay, here we go.

Your family history will likely be seen as indicative of a genetic cause. The lack of a clear precipitating event reduces the chances of an idiopathic diagnosis (i.e some occurrence induced the symptoms rather than them be derived from genetics). The early onset in combination with a clear precipitating event(s) would have been a shoe-in for an idiopathic diagnosis otherwise. You can try and "swing" it that way. Life changes such as you described are stressful enough to count.

I've a suggestion. Try and talk to your psychiatrist about easing your dosage down a step while bringing a family member who'll report on your behavior. If you can avoid any peculiar or outrageous behavior during that period then you'll be seen as: A. stable on the reduced dosage, or B. stable enough on your current dosage that it's a small risk to lower your dosage.

Stay cool, even if the psychiatrist wants to wait a bit before trying. Level with him/her about how the medication is interfering with your daily functioning at the current dose.

That is the major things to look for from their perspective is:
1) Side effect interference with your daily life is reduced
2) Your pathology (set of symptoms you exhibit) is reduced.

That's the actual point, keep that in mind.

This process will happen slowly. From the outside it might look like the doctor just halted in stepping you down to the next lower dosage for no reason. Just stay calm and behave.

This is not to screw with you, but to reduce the side effect profile while changing dosages.

This isn't tricking your psychiatrist, they're aware of the side effect profiles of (I'm presuming) SSRIs. Most would prefer not to "chemically lobotomize" you with high dosages you if you are compliant enough at following a regimen.

This is a SLOW process, but you can theoretically achieve it. If your doctor isn't willing to try this out, then get a consult with another. Hopefully that's clear enough, I've gotta go eat.
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>>10651325
thanks for the advice anon but this isn't my first rodeo, I stopped taking my antipsychotics three years ago cold turkey. my psychiatrist at the time absolutely did not want to entertain the idea of me ceasing antipsychotics so I just decided to quit on my own.

I'll probably end up in the mental hospital again. I always end up going back within five years of ceasing my antipsychotic intake. still though. a few years of relative normalcy bookended by psychotic breaks is better than 5 years plus of an anti psychotic zombified haze.
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>>10647783
That anon's saying is far from "before newton gravity doesn't exist" fallacy. It is more close to "let's increase the power of telescope, theory doesn't lie, there must be vulcan in here"
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>>10650914
orlando was a fucking arab islamist,

i'll cave on this, islam IS the only mental illness that exists.
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>>10644639

I think "schizophrenia" is caused by hostility, not affinity, to synchronicity and serendipity. Stupid statements cautioning against one's own Self like "rednecks hate science" or "Ted Bundy only cared about himself" can prompt neurotic people to infer Dualism between themselves and the Phenomenal world, to think of the world as their polar opposite demanding they renounce themselves, and to do so lest they become monsters. Such that when their synchronicity and serendipity tell them otherwise, they despair at the dissonance and throw themselves into this Epistemology hoping to find terror and delirium in order to humiliate it.
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>>10651837
Take your meds psycho.
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>>10651837
breh we simply have defective brain chemistry on the molecular level

JUST KILL US ALL ALREADY PLZ
>>
>have to take lithium to keep my manic depression away
>psychiatrists have even less of an idea of how and why it actually works to keep my symptoms at bay than how antipsychotics are supposed work
>it literally just works if antipsychotics are a protoscience lithium treatments are basically alchemy
just fuck my shit up. the demiurge is real
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>>10650812
>>10644770
/sci/ ladies and gentlemen, the """science""" board
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>>10651741
Well we can agree on one thing lol.
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>>10651856
I'm the cop from earlier. I agree with the chemisty theory. I don't want you to die but I also don't think we have effective methods to make you the best you. In time that will change I hope. I want to be part of that change and I'm sorry if any police has given you or anyone else with this illness a hard time. The majority simply do not understand and are ignorant and afraid of you.
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>>10651973
Uneducated edgelords.
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>>10651334
how accurate is beautiful mind? It seems the human brain is a computer. a pattern matching machine. but it's obvious we're meant to love and be in love.

not to discover all the secret of the universe.
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>>10652259
It is accurate for someone who is a genuis like John Nash in that the hallucinations he experienced represented themselves as real people in his mind. In reality the vast majority of Schizophrenics that I have interviewed stated they see shadow figures, orbs of light, experience paranoia about a greater conspiracy surrounding themselves, and hear voices that tell them varying thing. Some auditory hallucinations vary from a voice telling them to kill to mundane narrations of life. Positive symptoms are more dramatic. The negative symptoms tend to have a more profound effect on their ability to socialize and lead a healthy lifestyle. Such as depression, social isolation, poor hygiene, and lack of emotion. Someone experiencing a lot of positive symptoms can generally function albiet they are distracted and they also suffer stigma.
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>>10645151
Am I a schizo? I asked my cat to make me a better pianist and composer because I think she could grant wishes.
>>
Havn't read this thread.

Simple and accurate answer is we barely know how any of these psychological illness actually manifest in the brain. ADHD, PTSD, MDD, BPD, Schizophrenia. All of them On a scale of knowing how they manifest we are about a 2 out of 10.

If you don't know how it manifests in the brain, you can't solve it.
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>>10644639
I see my hallucinations as recurring characters and they sometimes 'substitute' as my internal mindvoice.
>For example if I'm solving 504/9, a hallucination would tell me '56' instead of me calculating it in my head.
What the fuck do I have?
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>>10650589
How can you believe our medical system is fair and just without any bias? Despite the medical damage circumcision does to the mind and body, hospitals are medical papers are not willing to accept it because it hurts their income.
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>>10651131
>If you can't convince a guy in a labcoat that you are sane then you probably aren't
true, while
>If you can convince a guy in a labcoat that you are insane then you probably are
false
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>>10653169
If that actually sounds like a logical thing to do in your head, you might be schizophrenic
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>>10653485
>>If you can't convince a guy in a labcoat that you are sane then you probably aren't

Once somebody suspects you're insane, the chance of proving them otherwise is probably near zero. Neurotypical people never review their decisions once they evaluate something; only autsists, certain types of schizos and young children can do that.
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>>10644639
because nobody cares
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>>10644639
Brain is hard to fix
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>>10650860
>it's something you can see.
..like behaviour then? why do you think people act in certain ways
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>>10644648
>A big problem is that the nature of illness itself makes the people with the disease not want treatment
Schizophrenia cannot be fully suppressed with just pills. Incorrect answer.
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>>10645277
>and roll with it.
Fuck you, you don't know how crippling even situational autism or mild autism is. It definitely needs research to develop ANYTHING that can help a little. Unfortunately it's not affected by deep brain stimulation.
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>>10646033
>ok but what mental disorder can you identify through brain scans alone?
If a part of the brain is damaged, smaller, or has a tumor, that's a big hint.
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>>10647099
Unfortunately that's true.
t. severly limited in life by autism.
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>>10650860
>i.e., they resolved on their own after some time.
Schizophrenia, autism, don't resolve on your own, you complete brainlet.
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>>10650891
>that's his choice
It isn't. It's crippling apathy caused by dissociation. It's extremely sad that a small part of his logical brain is still working.
>>
There is no real motivation for functional people to give a shit about mentally ill / impaired people in any way. People have a lot less empathy than they believe they have.
It works on a personal level level and a societal level. All normies want to do is pay lower taxes and interact with other normies.
Everyone is secretly glad if you're not one of them and you kill yourself, it gives them mild cognitive dissonance if they see you're in pain/homeless/mental breakdown, and no one wants to pay the taxes for a proper support system.
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>>10650993
this comment made me laugh
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i am a person with schizophrenia. i am on disability. i take medication so i can keep getting disability payments. if i stop getting payments i will probably stop taking the medication. i don't like the medication and have functioned for a while without it but i don't care that much about how well i function. anhedonia and mental fog are some side effects that i experience. i think i should be paid money to live, because living requires spending money. you can search for "basic income". i think basic income will be implemented in the us in 10-20 years so at that time i may or may not stop taking medication. who knows
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>>10645151
very bleak view on life you got there.
>>
People gotta realise Schizophrenia is a wide range of illnesses. Like you have Type 1 and Type 2 Schiz.
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>>10656760
>wide
>2
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>>10656779
Yes and within each types, it's varied. And you can often get cross overs between the types. It's a lot more complicated. Half the reason we know that Schiz is related to Dopamine is because people who take cocaine (and boost up Dopamine levels) have Schiz like effects. We really know nothing about Schiz, what happens, why it happens and how to treat it. We only treat symptoms, and long term its ineffective.
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>>10650860
How is it possible to be so misinformed and so confident at the same time. I'll never understand why so many people on /sci/ stay /x/-tier about a few topics.

> you cannot take a brain scan and point to a mental illness.
You can.

> there are only behaviors that fall out of the mainstream, but they are not illnesses.
Hallucinations and delusions aren't behaviors.

>they resolved on their own after some time.
Several mental illnesses never resolve on their own. Schizophrenia particularly. They can only be stabilized. With drugs often.

>and illness or a disease is something you can observe under a microscope
You don't observe hypertension under a microscope, you see it happening, same with a schizophrenic or depressed brain under MRI.

Yes antipsychotics are not perfect and have awful side effects and yes mental illnesses are hard to understand and not well classified but the particular combination of symptoms we call schizophrenia is a real medical condition and antipsychotics work, antidepressants and mood stabilizers too, you'd only need to work with mentally ill people for like a month to see it with your own eyes.
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>>10644639

Targeting the specific parts of the brain where structural abnormalities are occuring. Current drugs hit the receptors all over the brain causing lots of unwanted side effects. THis leads to patients not wanting to take meds. Main side effects that people hate are sexual dysfunction, zombification, twitches, etc.

Similar problems with medicating for chronic pain, anxiety, so on.
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>>10656796
The problem is that schizophrenia often gets misdiagnosed in people with autism or epilepsy, and antipsychotics make those worse.
>>
>mfw there are people in this thread who actually deny the validity of schizophrenia and mental illnesses

I've really overestimated the intelligence of people on /sci/
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>>10656846
How is mental illness even real like nigga just ignore voices and focus on something else other than horrors of your mind. People who have mental illness are people with lots of time in hand. Commies treated insanity with lots of physical work. Sucessfuly.
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>>10656864
you sound like a nazi. "arbeit macht frei" or whatever.
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>>10656864
that's just idiotic, if you had a voice in your head screaming at you constantly it will inevitably take a toll on you. Ignoring a guy screaming "You're worthless dogshit" and random things that you don't understand at random times would be hard to ignore in all circumstances. Not to mention the delusions, anhedonia, alogia, and problems with working memory that schizophrenics have.

Dumbass
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>>10656864
I have extreme Generalised Anxiety Disorder, and I can't just ignore the voices. There's literally a second human inside my brain telling me to worry about everything etc.
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>>10656760
Type 2 is bollocks

t. misdiagnosed autist
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>>10644882
shoutout to our modern school systems.
foolish cowards have taken the reigns.
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>>10650860
take your fucking brain scan and point to the "consciousness".
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>>10658465
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Literally the cure is a clean week long water fast.


Y'all so behind on the times, allowing big pharma to get richer. Thought /sci/ was like 300IQ.
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>>10658654
I heard shooting air into your vein helps more oxygen get to your brain, which also lowers schizophrenic symptoms.

It's also good for headaches.
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>>10658658
Let me guess... You haven't herd the latest news on mTor / autophagy...


The body literally can heal itself. All it takes is a little willpower.
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>>10658654
Most psychiatrist wouldn't notice even the most basic stuff like electrolyte imbalances, so it might actually "cure" it.
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>>10644639
I think schizophrenia is not an illness but rather a compilation of certain symptoms.
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>>10644639
Because psychiatry and pharmacology is run by the intelligence community (ARTICHOKE/MKOFTEN/MKCHICKWIT etc) and withholds knowledge because democratizing the harnessing of the human brain and putting everyone on a level playing field would be the end of them.

Psychiatry and neurology is basically nerfed at pop science and pharmaceutical companies have no interest in actually finding concrete information. Antidepressants are akin to trepanning with birdshot and hoping for the best.

It's probably something to do with the immune system attacking the brain with inflammation. Instead of being le rational skeptic and repeating rotelearned spiel go read about the history of pharma companies and their involvement in developing incapitation agents for war and suppression of domestic dissent. Since '47 the primary purpose of clinical trials of psychiatric drugs is to create incapacitation agents with therapeutic market use just being the scraps left over. 99% of the money was put towards trying to first strike Soviet strategic rocket forces so they couldn't launch with plausibly deniable psychoactives. Shrink drugs are in the stone age because the IC keep them that way.
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>>10653460
Relatable.
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>>10644639
There’s no known biological cause. Is it any surprising that all the “treatments” are memes? How could you possibly treat something if you don’t actually know what it is
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>>10644639
Because t can manifest itself in many different ways and nobody wants to admit they are schizophrenic. So it could be too late by the time the patient is diagnosed.
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>>10644770
This is absolutely correct, but there is such tremendous institutional bias against it that we will need to wait about fifty years before the medical community acknowledges their error
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>>10644787
Chemical imbalances are an advertising meme, stop pretending you understand neuroscience
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>>10653460
>What the fuck do I have?
Probably nothing, it's pretty normal to "just know" the answer to a problems you are very good at solving, without having to go through all the steps.
>>
>>10644884
Very insightful
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>>10659647
The medical community never acknowledges error. They are incapable of it. To do so would threaten the foundation of medicine, and they're not going to give up on their brand of helping people just because some, part, or most of it is wrong.



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