WOULD IT KILL YOU TO BUY AMERICAN ?Is it just a meme in this movie or it has some weight to it ?
>>20947068Not at all.
>>20947068I did buy American, technically.
>>20947092>technically AmericanSo Japanese then?
>>20947068My Kia is made in America, fuck off grandpa.
His son drove off in his Land Cruiser while his friend needed a jump on his Taurus.
>>20947068Economies are important.And boomers are hypocritical when they talk about supporting American business and manufacturing. If Americans didn't produce horse shit for nonwhites and women, and if in America you could get a job that could afford a new vehicle, and there weren't retarded backwards regulations on new vehicles, sure I'd buy American. I don't choose to drive European because I hate Americans. I choose to drive European because I hate niggers.
>>20947068I wanna buy a Camaro and reward Chevy for making an awesome performance car, but the Cayman has been my crush for about 5 years going
>>20947092Yes, but built here, by Americans.
>>20947068Why the fuck would I buy american
I think the idea is to contribute to the American economy. There are shit cars all over and pretty much everything is made in shithole countries. Sad, America can no longer afford to build quality into anything. I still believe in buying American because I don't want to piss off dead grandpa. American quality is shit because they need to pay workers too much. China and Mexico are cheaper than slaves. Last couple of products I bought that were made in the usa were one time use garbage. But hey, we probably got here from strengthening other economies and whining for money to sit on our asses.
>>20947068It had weight to it when it was American made products versus foreign products.Now its universally foreign products scalped by American companies with an American badge on it versus the wholesaler they're buying from.
>>20947143this>retarded boomers buy 'american' vehicles made in mexico while the tacoma awhile ago was actually the most made in america truck
>>20948206>Now its universally foreign products scalped by American companies with an American badge on it versus the wholesaler they're buying from.Your lack of knowledge is off the charts
>>20947261>posts a fiatseriously nigger, how stupid do you think people are
It would literally kill you, yes.
>>20949115Welcome to globalization. Where American cars are Italian, German cars are American, and Korean cars are German.
>>20949134But theres nothing american about it lol. Italian brand with italian engines on an italian platform, marketed by a company that is owned by italians under a brand name that hasnt been american in decadesIts american in name only if we went back years ago.
>>20949141>Its american in name onlyWell then it's American anon.Same way the paddys and polacks and guidos who came over on potato boats get to call themselves American too.
>>20947117>if in America you could get a job that could afford a new vehiclethat's kind of it, tooI make 6 figures and have never purchased a new car because it's SUCH a waste of money compared to a used one
>>20947134do you also shave your balls and wear pretty pink panties?
>>20949171Jobs in america suck. There has been a massive lobbying effort to dismantle unions through Right to Work laws. Wages haven't gone up at all, and the cost of living keeps going up.
>>20949179my wages are fineit's the cost of a new car that's absurdand unions are bad for good workers. they're only good for bad workers.>bad worker: you can't fire me, I'M in the union>good worker: you can't give me a raise, I'M in the union
>>20949192You wouldn't need a raise if you were union lol, that's the point. You'd be making more money anyways. Anyways, why do you people get so upset when other people are successful doing the same thing as you are, if a little worse, but don't get upset when other people are way more successful simply for owning the factory you work in?
>>20949192Unions generally shield good and bad workers alike from being absolutely cucked by uber-capitalism.
>>20949179Fukkin boomers and their selfish greed.
>>20949206This. The fact that you often can't be fired for any made up reason is a huge benefit today. An employer can literally tell you to do what ever they want and if you refuse you have no rights.
>>20949192>>good worker: you can't give me a raise, I'M in the unionUmm What? The union is literally there to negotiate your raises. Have you never worked in a union?
>>20949228Also you literally make more money in a union vs anywhere else.
>>20947068Used to mean something, but we all know that a lot of "foreign" cars are made in America.>but the money will go to Germany/Japan/Korea!>caring about corporatefags instead of supporting American workers
>>20949239American-made products are always shit. The only country worse at assembling things is America's parent-company, England.
>>20949201that's completely 100% verifiably falseI work in a right to work state and had the option of joining the union before signing on. I didn't and make MORE money and get BETTER benefits than my union counterparts. The ONLY even remotely valid argument is >>20949206, but it's not "uber-capitalism" that fucks workers. more often it's shitty management who doesn't know what the fuck they're doing. "Uber-capitalism" simply makes everyone - owners and workers alike - more rich. the point brought up by >>20949222 simply furthers that notion. it's not that workers have no rights without unions. it's that companies are free to hire fucking retarded management who nuke the company with poor decisions.and yes, it's totally fair that the person who assumes 100% of the risk in an enterprise is compensated at a higher rate. it's also fair that a more productive worker is compensated more than a less productive worker.
>>20949249>right to work statethat's your problem, cuck
>>20949228the union negotiates raises for everyone across the board. I don't know about you, but I'd rather negotiate my own pay because my work is worth a higher compensation than is advertised.and most companies that have to deal with unions offer higher wages for workers who choose not to unionize as an incentive.
>>20947068In the sense that it might be better for the american economy, unless it is just made by mexicans who work for a us company. Then you are better off buying foreign owned but built by americans.For the buyer, shit if I know in the time of the movie. American car making lagged behind while the asians got better that is for sure. Benefiting your own economy is all nice and good but you cant be expected to pay too high a price for it.
>>20949256my problem is that I make more money and get better benefits than if I were to be in the union? gee... what a horrible problem to have
>>20949249>I work in a right to work state and had the option of joining the union before signing on. I didn't and make MORE money and get BETTER benefits than my union counterpartsI fucking doubt it, your company is only doing that to usurp the union so it goes out so the company can then drop your wages and benefits like a rock. Right to Work doesn't mean shit it literally doesn't obligate you to get into a union. It was only created to fuck unions it doesn't give workers ANYTHING.>it makes workers more richNo it doesn't, if this was even remotely true, wages wouldn't stagnate like they have for the last 10 years.>I make more nowThen people in the union need to raise grievance and go on strike.
>>20949262Its because the company is usurping the union, after the union dissolves the company will have all the power over your benefits and wages.
>>20949268and coupled with that, the union dissolves, they lay you off and hire someone else for less because they have NO incentive to keep you at that pay anymore.
>>20949249>"Uber-capitalism" simply makes everyone - owners and workers alike - more rich.At the cost of the worker's well-being, every single time.
>>20949267prove that's what's going to happenwages have stagnated the last 10 years because of a little thing called the recession. workers wages may have stagnated, but most employers took losses during that period>>20949268prove it. the fact of the matter is: if they suddenly dropped wages, people would leave the company in droves
>>20949262You have a staggering misunderstanding of cause and effect don't you? Also, >it's totally fair that the person who assumes 100% of the risk in an enterprise is compensated at a higher rateexcept that if the business goes bust it's not his ass on the streets standing in line for food, it's not he who loses his healthcare, it's not he who has to decide between feeding his kids and paying for his house. If the business goes bust, the shareholders and executives just move on like nothing happened. The workers are the ones who get fucked when they're out of a job.
>>20949274>wages have stagnated the last 10 years because of a little thing called the recessionWages have been stagnant for decades, thanks to greed.
>>20949274>if they suddenly dropped wages, people would leave the company in drovesNo they wouldn't. Most of the time, these factory workers do not have the luxury of simply FiNd A nEw JoB.
>>20949273except you can't cite an example>>20949276>except that if the business goes bust it's not his ass on the streets standing in line for food, it's not he who loses his healthcare, it's not he who has to decide between feeding his kids and paying for his houseoften times it's much worse than that because his house was collateral for the bank to finance the operation during the tough economic times he took no paycheck but made sure to get you one. you act as though small business owners are all robber barons, but that's probably because you're a low iq factory worker who has no idea how the world works
>>20949274oh my god how fucking naive can you be. This is literally the same abuses that H1B's created with software engineers.
>>20949281>except you can't cite an exampleHoly shit the entire reason why the 40 hour work week exists is because of workers being abused by the employer. Minimum wage, social security all of it exists because of corporate abuses of worker rights.
>>20949281>except you can't cite an exampleNeither can you, for anything you're typing. You're completely shooting from the hip based on your personal beliefs. You aren't operating anywhere near fact here.
>>20949115It's no less American than >>20947143. Cherokees were built in Ohio and now in Illinois. It also was a Trailhawk, so it had the Chrysler designed Pentastar V6 instead of the Fiat tigershark I4.
>>20949281>except you can't cite an exampleThat's ridiculous anon. America literally had child sweatshops during its industrial revolution. Most of the labor laws you're arguing against now were a direct response to abuses.
>unions protect bad workers which you arent and undermine good ones which you are>why son I would give you a raise but damn I cant since the union wont let me. Listen I really do want to give you a raise and maybe even a promotion but damn the union just wont let me give you what I want and you deserve>actually believing this
>>20949277greed? many small business owners took NO pay during this wage stagnation.>>20949279they absolutely do>>20949282>thinks wages haven't increased due to Scrooge McDuck needing a bigger swimming pool of gold coins and not because of a recession>calls someone else naivethis is some other level kind of projection>>20949283the 40 hour mandatory work week is a sham that prevents people from making more moneyminimum wage provides a barrier to entry insurmountable by most low skilled workerssocial security is literally worse than stuffing money under your mattressall of your examples have actually made life WORSE for workers>>20949284you're the one making the claims, moron>>20949288and now people generally make so much money child labor is unnecessarythose laws do make it difficult for ambitious or trouble children to find work, though>no, sorry, you can't work at your uncle's pizza shop after school and during the summer because muh child sweatshops
It's called capitalism. The superior cars should be the ones that get purchased.
>>20949289>>why son I would give you a raise but damn I cant since the union wont let meThe union WILL let you, the contracts are written so that the company can't just change your wage on the spot
>>20949290>>thinks wages haven't increased due to Scrooge McDuck needing a bigger swimming pool of gold coins and not because of a recessionThey literally haven't gone up at all. Despite the economy doing so well, average worker wages haven't gone up at all, inflation is literally outpacing them.
>>20949289that's actually what happens, buddyin my experience in multiple industries, union lifers are lazy fucks who refuse to do extra work for everyone's sakethe people who are actually good at their jobs find a way to make more money by circumventing the union: moving to a different state, starting their own business, etc.
>>20949290>the 40 hour mandatory work week is a sham that prevents people from making more moneyOh boy heres a libertard spewing nonsense about the 40 hour work week.People worked 6 days a week 12 hours with no worker rights. They fought and protested for reasonable work accomodations and companies fought them hand over fist.
>>20949290>many small business owners took NO payGood. Bad businesses should continue to be allowed to die off. We can concede this capitalist pillar.>they absolutely donot.>you're the one making the claims, moronYou're the one falsely, and avidly suggesting unions and labor laws in general are a detriment to workers.>and now people generally make so much money child labor is unnecessaryCorrect. Thanks labor movement.
>>20949292the contract I negotiated personally with my employer gives me all the benefits you morons keep whining about>can't be fired without due process>guaranteed raise every year>strictly defined hoursthe difference is: I can renegotiate any time I want, but you union cucks have to wait for your democrat donating boss-man to decide it's worth it to negotiate on your behalf
>>20949295Sounds anecdotal and therefore irrelevant to fact.
>>20949295>that's actually what happens, buddyNo it doesn't. The company is giving you a better wage in exchange for NOT taking a job with the union so they can usurp the union.This was the same abuses where a company would make its own union to trick workers into joining then the company would drop their wages because the union wasn't representing them.>>20949298the NLRA and NLRB literally exists because of people striking for worker rights.
>>20949299>>can't be fired without due processYou didn't sign a contract, this makes no sense, no contract is gonna refer to it as "due process" Your contract is for a specific length of time and in that time you can't be fired unless you don't hold up your end of the contract.>guaranteed raisesThe same as the union contract>defined hoursthe same as the union contract
>>20949294This, for the US worker wages have effectively gone down compared to 40 years ago.
>>20949308Post 1990 kids are probably the first generation to NOT make more than their parents due to all this bullshit.
>>20949299That "big bad union boss" is typically elected to representation. Meaning, they're accountable to representing the union's actual interests. Meaning, they're not going to do shit to lose the trust and faith of the union workers. Meaning, they're not so big bad and scary.
>>20949311This. Workers have the right to raise grievance and if the union doesn't listen the workers HAVE THE RIGHT to strikeRaise a grievance with your boss? Hahaha fuck you you're fired.
>>20949310Correct, they are the first western generation to as a group be worse off than their parents due to a number of factors.
>>20949296I'm not saying unionizing is bad. I'm saying legally mandating someone join a union that does not actually benefit them is bad.>>20949298>Good. Bad businesses should continue to be allowed to die off. We can concede this capitalist pillar.those owners took no pay SO THAT the businesses could survive. many are thriving now that the economy is back, and those owners are making much more money than their workers who never took a pay cut during that period.>detriment to workersany law that prevents me from negotiating how I would like to work is a detriment to me. sorry you're an idiot.>Thanks labor movementno, legally mandating things isn't the only way to inspire social change you moron>>20949303everyone knows union fucks are lazy>>20949304prove it>>20949306yeah no shit, the contract doesn't say the words "due process." It lays out what the process is, but I didn't feel like explaining the HR policies on an indonesian basket weaving message board>same as the union contractdid you even read my argument?>the contract I negotiated personally with my employer gives me ALL THE BENEFITS YOU MORONS KEEP WHINING ABOUTholy shit, union fucks aren't just lazy, they're stupid too>>20949311great, so they're elected to representation. I may or may not have gotten my first choice.but hey, when I negotiate my contract myself, I get to make all the fucking decisions.
>>20949313>Raise a grievance with your boss? Hahaha fuck you you're fired.good thing the contract I negotiated prohibits my boss from firing me for raising an issue. maybe you should learn to advocate for yourself, child.
>>20949317>any law that prevents me from negotiating how I would like to work is a detriment to me.>legally mandating things isn't the only way to inspire social changeTake your neo-con "limited government" bullshit elsewhere. This isn't about that. At all.
>>20949317>I'm not saying unionizing is bad. I'm saying legally mandating someone join a union that does not actually benefit them is bad.No its not bad. The Right to Work laws literally only benefit the company. It doesn't give the worker the right to work it has nothing to do with that. Without the Union, the company can participate in all the unfair hiring and promotions it wants. >>>20949317>prove itTHATS LITERALLY WHAT THEY JUST DID
>>20949322Or you should read your contract, if they make you quit by making your shitty job a living hell you aren't going anywhere. If anything you're a contract worker 1099 not an employee with a W2
There goes my thread. Leave it to alt-right retards to derail a perfectly good topic. Unions are good, by the way.
>>20949331yes it is>>20949332no, they give me the right to work without kowtowing to a unionultimately I'm free to make more money>that's literally abloo bloono they didn't, they just claimed it again>>20949333making someone quit by making their job a living hell isn't protected by unions, kiddo>>20949336>if you don't want to pay someone for the right to have a job, you're alt-rightfuck off.
>>20949336>makes a political thread>le pikachu face when thread gets political
>>20949338>no, they give me the right to work without kowtowing to a unionYOU ALWAYS HAD THE RIGHT TO WORK, RIGHT TO WORK DOESNT GIVE YOU SHIT
>>20949338>if you don't want to pay someone for the right to have a jobSilly. As you suggested earlier in the thread, if you don't like unions, you are free to find employment elsewhere with your trade skills. Good luck finding one as high-paying and with as good benefits as the unionized ones.
>>20949336Your pol thread went exactly like you wanted it to
>>20949338>making someone quit by making their job a living hell isn't protected by unions, kiddoIt is though, you have literally file a grievance with your union that some boss is making you do shit outside your purview or that he's harassing you thats what the union is for you moron.
>omg Right to Work gave me the right to work I'm so thankful>oh wait I always had the right to work even before it>The only difference is I'm not obligated to join a union>who would support such a bill?>oh wait, a company would they would like a bill that undermined union workers>why would they do that>oh shit so they don't have to deal with unions and worker rights, they can acquire the control necessary over the workers>wow why do they call it Right to Work then?>Oh shit maybe it was to get people to vote for it, they would never call it "undermine worker rights law"
>>20949344nope. in a union run state it's literally illegal for me to work in my profession without paying a non-government entity for the permission to do so>>20949345I already did>>20949355if you have a hardass boss, the union is not protecting you>>20949363>thinks corporations are greedy for not wanting their state run by unions>thinks unions are altruistic for forcing every laborer in the state to pay them dues under the penalty of lawthose are some impressive mental gymnastics
>>20949281All work is an example of this. Owners don't end up with busted knees, bad backs and no healthcare benefits, workers do.
Some idiots drink Coke, others, Pepsi.
>>20949367>nope. in a union run state it's literally illegal for me to work in my profession without paying a non-government entity for the permission to do soYou're a fucking idiot, you can get a job anywhere so long as you follow the rules to do so. Its the same shit if your employer said "you need to be on call 24/7" and if you refused that then you couldn't have a job. The company you worked for lobbied the state government to pass a "right to work" law that doesn't give the worker ANY worker rights it just means you don't have to join a union to do so.>if you have a hardass boss, the union is not protecting youYes it does, your Boss isn't in the union, Your Union will have HR reps specifically for this. ITs clear you've never worked in a union or know anything about a union this is literally what they're here for.
>>20949290>Getting paid minimum wage makes things worse because you can't do MORE work for LESS moneyI don't want to do more work for less money, I want to do LESS work for MORE money, grandpa. Kindly keep up. You're trying to revert the American worker back to slave labor because its more profitable. We're trying to bump the American worker - all American workers - back up to the living standard of Middle Class that our parents had. 8 hour workday maximum, 40 hours a week, lots of vacations, time to raise kids, the works.Working more is just going to give us a third world lifestyle and a bit more cash. But we'll still be working 80 hours a week, running ragged on no sleep, busting our asses and our bodies for the profit of the company owner. We'll kill every boomer in the country first.We deserve the same lifestyle our grandparents were graciously and freely handed by the Greatest Generation. If we don't get it, we'll kill our grandparents, burn down their companies and accomplishments and plunder their wealth. These are the only two paths to the future.
>>20949380Hell without unions that fought for the NLRB, adequate breaks, working conditions, fair wages the employer can literally do what ever they want.Florida doesn't have any of those worker rights, you aren't obligated to take a break at all. Meanwhile in NY I have Paid leave, 30 minute lunch brakes, etc.
>>20949373owners often do end up with those thingsI'll ask again, since I didn't get an answer the first time: why do you think all small business owners are robber barons?>>20949380>as long as you follow the rules to do so>You're a fucking idiot, there are no rules>except for the rules>just follow the rules and pay up, cuck>just give us money so we can gain more political influence>let us negotiate for you, you're not smart enough to do it on your ownJesus Christ, what is the matter with you people?
>>20949393>I don't want to do more work for less money, I want to do LESS work for MORE money, grandpa. Kindly keep up.Lmao this. People make fun of the EU but in france my fulltime work week is 28 hours. I work 4 days a week, get fridays off. 6 weeks of vacation time when I started and everything. I can't be fired for no reason ever and I get paid sick time, paternity leave all this shit. Never have to worry about healthcare.But americans think not having worker rights is better.
>>20949403I wasn't that guy you were talking to. Also, refer to this post for my answer.>>20949393
>>20949393if you're an adult and work for minimum wage, there's something seriously defective with YOU, buddythat's really all I'm going to say on the matter
>>20949403>>let us negotiate for you, you're not smart enough to do it on your ownYou are so dense its unreal. The union exists to represent workers, your employer is NOT going to represent you ever.The workers striked years ago to form a union and force their employer to negotiate with them. The workers elected leaders to negotiate on their behalf.
>>20949403>why do you think all small business owners are robber barons?You can stop with this tired strawman that gets trotted out every time fair labor practices are in discussion.
>>20949403>why do you think all small business owners are robber barons?If you work for a company that is large enough to have a union, its not a "small business" by any means.The company ONLY exists to make more money and they'll do that if they have to lower your wages, lay off people anything.
The reason why walmart hasn't unionized in the US is because walmart would rather try their best to not pay their workers more so they fight the union every time it comes up. Hell they even have corporate propaganda videos saying "if you wanna join a union just say no you're better off without it"Why would a corporaiton not want you to join a union? so they can fire you whenever and not pay you more and not give you benefits because they want to make more money in exchange.
>>20949408Wow, I've never seen a statement reek of such out-of-touch ridiculousness. Everyone who enters the job market now takes minimum wage. Everyone. Plumbers, Electricians, Firefighters, Carpenters. I would know, I've been all of those things since I got out of HS in the class of '08. ALL JOBS are now for minimum wage unskilled labor. No health benefits, no unions. If you're lucky, you might get AFLAC or some supplemental thing like that.Skilled labor is something that only exists for people who were in the job market before the crash in 2008. You guys have jobs with grandfathered-in salaries and benefits that are not going to be extended to the three minimum-wage goons they eventually replace you with so that they can accomplish more work with less money. They'll eat the cost on quality and think nothing of it, trust me.
>>20949408>if you're an adult and work for minimum wage, there's something seriously defective with YOU, buddyThe minimum wage is only shameful NOW because of the fact that it's so stagnated that it is NOW generally thought of as a "McJob" for the high school children of middle class parents.
>>20949380>doesn't give the worker ANY worker rightsNot him: being non union gives you the right to outperform people of higher position and seniority and make more money than they do because you are worth more money than they are. I really don't give a fuck either way. Unions are ok for unskilled labor but, the pendulum swings back in the face. A guy who cleans toilets makes more money and has more job security than an aircraft mechanic. Unions trying to assimilate the entire country is an obvious problem. It was needed when kids were working 16 hours in coal mines. They are a third party taking a piece of industrial pie. A great weapon in the hands of the weak.
>>20949422This is too true. My first job was Walmart. The training videos literally had me terrified of unions. I'll never forget that.I'll also never forget how I intentionally applied for a "full-time job" yet routinely only got scheduled for 32-38hrs a week.
>>20949425>being non union gives you the right to outperform people of higher positionWhy would you work harder and not get paid more?>seniority and make more money than they do because you are worth more money than they are.No that only assumes they recognize you and your boss promotes you. Your boss could also not promote you and keep you where you're at. This literally stems from the same philosophy of "Minimum wage work minimum work wage" Why should I work harder if I'm not getting recognized or paid more?Its not a competition between you and your coworkers, your coworkers should be working together to better each other. Its you vs the company not you vs your other workers.
>>20949432>I'll also never forget how I intentionally applied for a "full-time job" yet routinely only got scheduled for 32-38hrs a week.This is probably so they can avoid paying you benefits. In NY, the state made it so that 32 hours was the minimum necessary for full time benefits, it was made so that employers couldn't shaft you by booking you 39 hours and not pay benefits. Now employers just schedule two people to work 20 hours a week a piece all in the effort of NOT paying workers more.
>>20949433>Its not a competition between you and your coworkers, your coworkers should be working together to better each other. Its you vs the company not you vs your other workers.This. I'm a chemist and in our departments the managers were hiring people for all sorts of wonky wages. I'm just a chemist making 42k a year but another chemist doing the exact same job was making 55k. We actually did bring this up, all of us collectively and wanted a policy on jobs, wages, and promotions so that we got paid equally. It definitely helped having all your friends with you because otherwise the company wouldn't recognize it.Also if a company ever tells you to never talk about your wages, thats illegal as fuck.
>>20949424Yeah, no, nope. It's always been for negris and kids. Its never been a full time sustainable raise a family live in upper class job category.Can't believe the kids from summer are here already and communists swine
>>20949441>>20949432Walmart is the largest employer in the country and yet is notoriously the shittiest. Doesn't surprise me, or anyone. They pay them so little so that those same employees become dependent on welfare to supplement their low salaries. And where are these employees spending their welfare? At Walmart. For groceries and tupperware. Quite outrageous.
>>20949445>they're communist because they don't wanna work dogshit jobs for dogshit pay.Yea wages have stagnated, I literally only got a raise because minimum wage in NY went up. Grocery store wasn't gonna pay me more money for my work.You wonder why more kids are during to socially inclined philosophies like socialism and communism? Its because boomers had it great and literally made a shitty environment for kids to grow up in. Now people suffer and they realize they're being abused but you think they're communist and thats bad?
>>20949449Walmart is the only store in my town now. You literally can't shop anywhere else.
>>20949433You are one of the weak that I speak of. If you are better than your fellows, you go in and say, "Look, I'm better than that guy and unless you pay me better, you are not going to see my full potential. Don't get me wrong though, some are weak at no fault or their own and they deserve the right to get along. It is equally sad to see some poor old fucked up dude getting whip cracked on. There really isn't anything to argue. Its apples and oranges. There is always going to be unfair in the world. There is no such thing as fair.
>>20949455>If you are better than your fellows, you go in and say, "Look, I'm better than that guy and unless you pay me better, you are not going to see my full potential.You are stupid. You are always replaceable. You're not special. If you walked out of your job tomorrow, they'd have a replacement in 2 weeks. This happens even at the CEO level. You've successfully deluded yourself.
>>20949455Why is me competing against my coworkers for recognition from a boss that only wants to make more money on me?Why is it bad that me and my coworkers work collectively for the betterment of each others work conditions and wages? How does that make us weak?>theres no such thing as fairOk well I can work a fair job for a fair wage with my coworkers that are doing similar jobs for similar pay. Thats whats fair.If anything its fucking weak to beg to your employer "pls gimme a good wage pweese I'm a good boi vs that other dude" and if hes benevolent enough he'll give you a 50 cent raise and you'll be so grateful for the privilege of working sucking down their cock while your yearly earnings get outpaced by inflation.
>>20947068Define American*. Is it who owns the logo? Or which labor assembles the car?*And does this include Mexico?
>>20949422>corporate propagandaEven Delta does it.
>>20949433>Its not a competition between you and your coworkers, your coworkers should be working together to better each other. Its you vs the company not you vs your other workersIt is neither of these things as well as each of them. You are a victim of divide and conquer. You have a relationship with the company and coworkers. There are plenty of scum on each "side" that make things abysmal. You don't want any part of that. Some of us are probably at work right now. Stealing time from the company that puts food on our table and saying that it is justice. Socialism did not get us here. We have corporations and robber barons to thank for our standard of living. It must stay in balance, least it tip to one side. Why you don't recognize this?
>>20949479This is what libterarians actually think
>>20949466>You are stupid. You are always replaceableI was a complete dick for twenty years because I could not be replaced. Making more than anyone else in the building, including my boss. Everyone thinks they are snowflakes and some are.
>>20949407I already responded to that>>20949410I never said my employer would represent me. I represent myself you man-child.>>20949411how is it a strawman? you're literally arguing as though they haven't been taking a loss for the last decade>>20949415companies don't have unions. industries do. you must be 18+ to post here.>>20949422>why would a corporation not want to deal with a third party negotiating with its own interests in mindgee, I wonder>>20949423I didn't even take minimum wage working in fast food. you're a disgrace. >>20949424no, it's shameful because you have done exactly nothing to increase your value as a worker above the legally mandated minimumif you're 15, then working minimum is fineif you're 25, then working minimum means something is wrong with you>>20949432>>2094944130+ hours is full time and benefit eligible>>20949433>Your boss could also not promote youI've been headhunted by multiple companies. my current one has always been willing to offer more than the competing org. that's called capitalism. sorry your labor isn't worth the expense.>>20949441so you're saying people get paid less due to regulations designed to give them access to benefits? you're saying those workers would have been better off without those regulations since now they're getting now benefits AND 19 fewer hours of work?
>>20949488Oh please, the relationship with the employer is literally ONLY a matter of exchange of labor for wages.I have no sentimental values with the company, I'm literally just an asset to them, they can lay me off for any reason or no reason. They don't give a fuck about me.I want to be apart of helping people like me do better by fighting against a company whose entirely job is to make sure I'm paid as little as possible.>Stealing from the company calling it justiceFuck off that is justice, they made millions on my labor and they gave me 42k a year. me stealing 15 minutes to look at my phone isn't a determent to them>They put food on your tableoh man I didn't know I should be so grateful and thankful the company was generous enough to give me money for my labor wow I shouldn't be so fucking spoiled.>thank the corporationYea thank the corporation for fighting against my worker rights by cutting corners on safety, workers and shit.
>>20949503if it was so bad, why did you continue to work for them?
>>20949500>I never said my employer would represent me. I represent myself you man-child.And if you had a union your union would fight for you and pay for your lawyer and shit>companies don't have unions. industries do. you must be 18+ to post here.Companies do have unions you fucking retard, it proves you've never worked for a union. There can exist unions that only exist at specific companies.>30+ hours is full time and benefit eligibleIn the US, its 40 hours, other states have it dropped if they've passed laws about it>I've been headhunted by multiple companies. my current one has always been willing to offer more than the competing org. that's called capitalism. sorry your labor isn't worth the expense.And they can choose not to you make it out like you're in control when in reality you're just shifting from one shitty job thinking you're being paid what you're worth but you're not.>so you're saying people get paid less due to regulations designed to give them access to benefits? Oh man what a fucking privilege to have healthcare so I don't have to go bankrupt because I had to go to the emergency room.Companies have been avoiding paying benefits for years. The workers need those benefits, the companies were never going to give it to them. The state is trying to undermine companies continual abuses to not pay benefits. Its why a lot of businesses get in trouble mislabeling people as 1099's so they don't have to pay benefits.
>>20949450Communist has never and well never work. Its a fundamentally flawed system. With this many attempts, it's either a broken system fundamentally or it's impossible to implement>inb4itsnotREALLYsocialismFuck right off. Everyone has a choice and a pretty fair shake starting out. 100% fair? No. But enough that any person can jump up from lower class to upper class with hardwork. You're so isolated in NY that you've missed the job boom almost everywhere else for even slightly skilled work.Michigan is begging for people to work. There are signs on every single no skill job businesses like subway, where they can't get people to stay and work. 13/hr for making sandwiches, 16/hr with training to be a pharmacist tech.Deregulation is working in places outside of commie NY. Kids are going to socialism because teacher unions are indoctrinating and whitewashing history. Rewriting it to one framed entirely focused on the faux horrors of muh cishet white man while downplaying any other negative thing or failure. If you're under 30 there's a good chance you're already brainwashed and believe that theres am ongoing gender wage gap, that blacks are shot at disproportionate rates by cops, and that the national socialist party of Germany were really white fascists.lol. but you never taught that iq is the best predictor of life outcome and success, and that ethnicity can predict iq statistically.Gotta get back to my job, no college degree, left for IT industry when I had to start borrowing money junior year, and I now make more than my peers that graduated in STEM fields without debt. 80k isn't going to make itself :^)
>>20949506Its not just me its millions of people in the US who often don't have a choice. They either work or they die, this is literally called Wage Slavery. They can't afford to move or adjust their lifestyle so they're forced to work exorbitant hours because there are few other opportunities in their area.
>>20949466Janitor detected? You have the mind of a slave. That's not how business works. If you objectively know what you are worth. A company isn't going to toss a money maker to the curb and grab some dumbass off the street to retrain them in the hopes that they will get a cheaper version of you.
>>20949500>Hurr Durr I didn't even take minimum wage flipping burgersWhat part of "All work is minimum wage now" did you not understand? You have a hearing problem or an English problem?
>>20947068its a meme.>german bean>buy german car>anything else is trash>japan bean>buy japan cal>anything else is tlash>french bean>buy frog car>anything else is le trash...
With union:>you get a voice>your boss cannot take advantage of you>you are guaranteed work>you are guaranteed safetyWithout union:>...Wow.
>>20949510>Michigan is begging for people to work. There are signs on every single no skill job businesses like subway, where they can't get people to stay and work. 13/hr for making sandwiches, 16/hr with training to be a pharmacist tech.You think 13 dollars an hour is good? Thats fucking garbage money today thats only 18k after taxes.Why aren't people staying in those jobs because even at the 13 or 16 dollars an hour that is fucking GARBAGE pay, for reference, 20 dollars an hour is only 41.6k a year or 29 after taxes. Thats actually NOT a lot of money at all.>deregulation is working outside of NYclearly not because michigan apparently has a labor shortage and people won't take the jobs for some reason probably because they're garbage and they pay like shit.
>>20949513>A company isn't going to toss a money maker to the curb and grab some dumbass off the street to retrain them in the hopes that they will get a cheaper version of you.Thats literally why H1B is abused.Companies in silicon valley are firing their current workers who make 120k a year to hire an H1B that makes 60k a year which is just higher than the necessary reporting threshold for why a worker is making less than a certain amount.
>>20949524oh yea and thats 18k and 29k a year before shit like benefits which I also imagine are garbage.The employer wants to fill the job but is reluctant to make it worth it.
>>20949509>And if you had a union your union would fight for you and pay for your lawyer and shitmost employment grievance lawyers will work for commission on the condition they win your case. I don't need a union to stand behind that.>Companies do have unions you fucking retard, it proves you've never worked for a union. There can exist unions that only exist at specific companies.which company does the United Auto Workers union specifically work with?what about the Screen Actor's Guild/Actor's Equity?>In the US, its 40 hoursno, in the US it's 30.>And they can choose not to you make it out like you're in control when in reality you're just shifting from one shitty job thinking you're being paid what you're worth but you're not.I'll reiterate: I'm currently making more money than my union counterparts, with better benefits.>Oh man what a fucking privilege to have healthcare so I don't have to go bankrupt because I had to go to the emergency room.this doesn't address the issue. before the regulation they had 39 hours and no healthcare. now they have 20 hours and no healthcare. how did the regulation help them?
>>20947068There is no American Miata competitor. It's been made since 1989 and no American companies have tried to compete with it all this time.
>>20947068This is literally the most American car money can buy
>>20949512>don't have a choicewe're at a job surplus at the moment in the countryyou have a choice>>20949515the part where you're talking out of your ass. my 110k/yr job is not minimum wage>>20949519>Without union:>you get to represent yourself>you can stay or leave on your own terms>your boss cannot take advantage of you because you have a contract with the employer you negotiated personally to meet your specific needs>you are guaranteed work per the contract>you are guaranteed safety by fucking lawholy shit you're deluded.
>>20949503>just an assetSure that should always be kept in mind. But that isn't true. Im still friends with "superiors" where I have worked in the past. We have helped each other in life outside of work. My employer cooked the books because I had enough surgery for them to legally let me go. Even with the idea that you are just an asset, who would trade a reliable machine for cheap shit? You know that your employer makes ten times the amount what they give. That tells you that you can get more.
>>20949541>soon to be made in china
>>20949510>Michigan is begging for people to work>13/hr Wagie Jobs, 16/hr wagie jobs with some room for advancementToo bad 16/hr won't buy you a house in this day and age. A starter home runs about half a million dollars outright, with the down payment being 10%, which is 50,000 dollars.Where exactly are you supposed to live in the meantime, and how much of your wage will that eat up? How will you cover the up-front cost of moving to Michigan if you don't already have a job that provides a good wage for you? What will you do for healthcare? For that matter, what about transportation? Are you bringing a car all the way to Michigan from elsewhere or buying it there, because there are costs involved.You're asking the world of people and then telling them "Well just move bro" and offering them the opportunity of a wage that won't provide for their needs, much less their wants. Middle Class in the USA is currently defined as people who make more than $40,000 US after taxes. Those people can afford to do things like move to a new place. Those of us who make $18k a year busting our asses can barely afford gas.
>>20949535>most employment grievance lawyers will work for commission on the condition they win your caseYes thats called pro bono but no you're assuming that they'll take it which they aren't going to unless they know they'll win its why Union Dues pays for a lawyer to grill with questions all the time.>which company does the United Auto Workers union specifically work with?I literally work at a chemical plant where our union doesn't extend outside of the chemical plant. Why you think a union can't exist in a single company is beyond me.>no, in the US it's 30.Except its not because insurance companies will literally drop you if you fall below 40 hours. They still do these metrics and shit.>I'll reiterate: I'm currently making more money than my union counterparts, with better benefits.And they're only doing that to give people incentive to NOT join the union, they're usurping the union. If the union contract gets renegotiated next year and they get that pay raise the company wants to undermine those workers by incentivizing them to leave so they can dissolve the union.>this doesn't address the issue. before the regulation they had 39 hours and no healthcare. now they have 20 hours and no healthcare. how did the regulation help them?the law isn't strict enough about obligating employers to pay benefits. Its the abuse of the company, the deregulation would never help them.
>>20949535>No, in the US its 30.In the US, it IS 40 hours. I currently work 38 and recieve no benefits. Only specific states have passed laws to prevent employers from doing exactly this, and my state is NOT one of them.
>>20949542>we're at a job surplus at the moment in the countryTHE JOBS ARE FUCKING GARBAGE WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND.Wages haven't gone up, benefits are still trash because healthcare is fucked.>you get to represent yourselfThats not a good thing, no one will ever advise you to NOT take a lawyer>you can stay or leave on your own termsAnd thats not a good thing, you often need the job more than they need you. Not being able to be fired for any reason is amazing because it protects you from nonsense. All the while you can still leave when ever you want>your boss cannot take advantage of you because you have a contract with the employer you negotiated personally to meet your specific needsThats only if you have a contract, a majority of workers who have contracts are 1099 and don't get benefits because they're contract workers.>you are guaranteed safety by fucking lawExcept you aren't. If you have a grievance because your work conditions you're forced to deal with it or quit because you have to contact a regulatory agency to view it. OSHA guidelines are loose vs other places. A union will protect your job, you don't have to work in the dangerous condition and you get paid for not working which incentivizes the employer to fix the issue. Meanwhile you can't do anything about it otherwise.
>>20949549>A starter home runs about half a million dollars outrightnot in Michigan you califag
>>20949542>Hurr Durr I have a job thats not minimum wage and that means that all of the NEW workers who are being hired must also be getting 110k/hr instead of making minimum wage!I don't care about what you make, I care about what everyone in my graduating class makes. It doesn't matter what skills you have NOW. If you had a job before, you got to keep your wages. If you came into the job market after 2008, you make minimum wage or just above it. Period.
>we need people to work! sandwich maker for 13 dollars an hourWhy do people think this is good pay like its 1999?
>>20949573Because they're fucking boomers that wanna pretend that you can just work a single summer and pay for school and that rent isn't absolutely ass>800 dollars a month for a 1 bedroom, no AC not including utilities :^)
>>20949529Yeah, you see just fine but, only with one eye. Im not seeing with the other. I've them both open. Lot of red pill talk around here but it must be hard to swallow.
>>20949554>Yes thats called pro bonono, pro bono is working for free. working for commission on the condition you win the case is normal legal practice. I'm not sure the rest of your post is even worth addressing if you don't understand this basic piece of information.>Why you think a union can't exist in a single company is beyond me.I didn't say that. you claimed a union can't exist beyond a company.>Except its not because insurance companies will literally drop you if you fall below 40 hours.https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/full-time-employee/>Full-Time Employee (FTE): Any employee who works an average of at least 30 hours per week for more than 120 days in a year. Part-time employees work an average of less than 30 hours per week.fucking retard.>And they're only doing that toprove it>the law isn't strict enough about obligating employers to pay benefitsno, you're totally right. we should put even more onerous regulations on these companies so they are forced to close up shop and those workers who were previously getting 39 hours with no benefits, then 20 hours with no benefits could get 0 hours with no benefits! that will solve inequality for sure this time!>>20949559https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/full-time-employee/your employer is breaking federal law
I buy American if I can afford it. I don't buy shitty bailout American cars though.
>>20949566>THE JOBS ARE FUCKING GARBAGEthe jobs in surplus are technical jobs - exactly the kind you're arguing about, retard. if you are a skilled welder, you can make six figures in a fucking heartbeat in nearly any region of the country.>no one will ever advise you to NOT take a lawyerin wage negotiation, you fucking retard. holy shit, you union fucks really are dumb as bricks>And thats not a good thingyes, it's a good thing for me to have the option to stay in my job or leave it if I don't like the deal, just like it's a good thing for me to choose to buy something if I like it or not buy it if I can't afford it>Thats only if you have a contract, a majority of workers who have contracts are 1099 and don't get benefitsliterally every full time worker has a contract>Except you aren'tyes, if your workplace commits negligence and you are injured as a result you get to sue them. that's the law.
>>20949401That's an Italian brand
>>20949549>Too bad 16/hrThats a defeatist attitude. Bought my house in the Bay Area at the hight of the bubble, making 12 bucks an hour. Saw a lot of idiots making more than me lose their house. Some of them made out pretty well by taking money out of your pocket.
>>20949597You always have the option to leave, union or no. Forced work is literally, unironically slavery. You cannot force a worker to work, even under contract. They can simply accept a breach of contract. You still can't force them.
>>20949572>All work is minimum wage nowplease remember this was your claim, dumb fuckwhat "graduating class" are you referring to? high school graduating class? undergraduate? graduate? doctorates? post-doc?you get paid in accordance with your demonstrable skills. it's not really a difficult thing to understand.>If you came into the job market after 2008, you make minimum wage or just above it. Period.I entered the job market in 2011. maybe you're just a low-skilled low-iq screw up.
>>20949595This is what finally caused me to stop hating Ford. Give me a reason and I will resume my hatred.
yes it would kill me because american brands are low quality shit.
>>20949597>yes, if your workplace commits negligence and you are injured as a result you get to sue them. that's the law.No you can't sue them, you have to take workers comp.
>>20949641Dude, you can sue, even if you cant. I signed a paper saying that I wouldn't and i did.
>>20949641>No you can't sue themhypothetically, if there's a law that states employers shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees, and that employer flagrantly disregards such a law, I as an employee would be hypothetically entitled to sue themhypothetically of coursehttps://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=2743&p_table=OSHACT
>>20949256>>the reason our totalitarian control over people hasn't worked out yet, because it's not absolute enough yet!t. every commie ever
Who the fuck would want an american car in 2019
>>20949696basically.isn't it also convenient that we have this "existential threat" in global warming, and the only solution is always socialism?
>>20949541California isn't America
>>20949249Your a tool you fucking idiot.
>>20949880at least I'm not a union stooge
>>20949542>job surplusThe vast majority of those jobs are in retail, call center or warehouse and hospitality. Those jobs pay shit wages. This is why you have poverty traps in major cities. They pay just enough to keep you broke.
>>20949888Nope, try again third worlder
>>20949249You know you're right, right?
>>20949913no, the vast majority of those jobs are in skilled technical labor
>>20949573They're either boomers or from shitholes that think 13 dollars an hour is big money.
>>20949903You know when the union dies off they are going to cut your wages and benefits. They'll probably mandate 20 hours of overtime every week though so you'll probably make the same amount.
>>20949978That stuff combats inflation. Im just tagging you because you're last. If everyone makes a thousand dollars an hour. Shit that costs 15 bucks will cost a thousand bucks. It is retarded to think things were easier in the past. Anybody over 40 years old can tell you that. If anything we should go full bore crazy and advocate for alternatives to supplement the economy. As was done in the past. Whining fucks here all have internet access. That used to cost thirteen dollars a minute. Kids have phones. I didn't have one until i was 32. Computers were for rich people. 20 minutes of labor bought a gallon of gas. Pretty much the same. People didn't go to McDonald's because it was extravagant. Toothpaste cost almost 4 bucks in the 80s and 4 dollars was a good wage. Most is easier now than it ever was.
If you buy American you are getting scammed. Don't let these kike companies like GM & Ford steal your hard earned money. Get your money worth and buy a superior Asian vehicle.
>>20949160Anglos as well.
>>20947116What? Fucking retard
>>20949998prove ityou keep claiming this, and I keep asking for proof, but you just keep ignoring that request and claim it again later
>>20950052not to mention with this gig economy these morons have more options than ever to make a few extra dollars well and above minimum wage:>uber/lyft>grubhub>turo
>>20950181All of those gig jobs puts additional wear and tear onto your car. You're getting fucked on the back end by doing shit like uber.
>>20950181Yeah. Once I get this computer shit figured out, I can sell cool rocks on eBay and retire early. That's another thing that I forgot in my random bitching. People now have more access to retirement benefits and investments than you can shake a stick at. 401k literally gives free money and people complain that they cannot afford it. When I was starting, you had to figure all that out and nobody would talk to you if you didn't have 25 grand in your pocket.
>>20950293Only if you do it intermittently. If you commit and go during peak hours, you actually make good money.>>20950296Pretty much this. I opened a Roth IRA with $500 when I was 20, working a fast food job. It's actually crazy easy to do these days. That's still my primary form of retirement savings since my employer's retirement account isn't vested until 5 years with the org (some weird faux pension plan).
>>20949295This and union politics are fucking retarded>union protects the wages and pensions of their older workers while accepting cuts to the younger workers>white collar workers get upset that most of the union resources goes toward the blue collar workers even though they pay more union dues (it's based on % of pay). >white collar workers split off and make their own local>union spends massive amounts of money on lawyers to defend a few operators who got fired only after failing 4-5 drug tests in a row
>>20950181>well and above minimum wage>Uberlmao no>TuroThis actually costs people money in the long run.
>>20950485not if you do it rightsorry you're as bad at managing your own time as you are at your unskilled labor minimum wage job>lmao nostraight up all the aggregate data you're basing that opinion on is thrown off by retards who think they can drive their F-250 for Uber and make money
>>20950485That guy says "can" and you say "can't." You're both right. Who would you rather be?
>>20947068Hi! american cars are fuck garbage. not quite as bad as german cars, but real bad.toyota is the only good manufacturer /thread
Lmao at all these underage zoomers ITT.I make 85k a year, no union and in a right to work state. Get gud,.make yourself invaluable to your employer.Keep giving dues to unions that support open border D's to lower everyone's wages with endless immigration. Good goy
>>20949244England is shit at assembly, but it has some of the best cast and forged metal products on the market though.
>>20947068>Most American cars sold in the US are made in Mexico>Most Asian cars sold in the US are made in the US
>>20949491This is the result of common core
>>20949423Last company I worked for hired out of school developers at 75,000 a year. We will pick up a code boot camp person at about the same rate maybe a little less. If you had a few good repos about the same really.If you have desirable skills you will make desirable amounts of money
>>20950888>If you have desirable skills you will make desirable amounts of moneyit's not worth the effort trying to explain that to these communistsI like your eights by the way desu
What a bunch of fucking faggots. It must be gen x's fault. Where did it go so wrong?
>>20947134Get off the internet Linda. You've had too much box wine.
I would've bought a Focus if the trannies weren't shit and they weren't discontinuing the model. Seriously how did Ford fuck up so bad that they now have a class action lawsuit?
>>20951742>min maxingnice build anon
>>20949624Chevrolet is French/Swiss
>>20947068American customers have been holding their auto industry back
>>20952861Nah, Americans aren't as gullible as American car companies want them to be.
I don't know, would it kill you to admit that sometimes the US produce complete fucking garbage?
>>20949759>environmental protection = socialism>in fact everything I don't want is socialism
My Honda Accord is made in US.>most "American" cars are mostly from Mexico and Canada
>>20947068>WOULD IT KILL YOU TO BUY AMERICAN ?Actually, yes. To be more specific, it would be the faulty ignition switch.
>>20948047People overstate the quality difference between American and Japanese cars. It’s really not that much anymore. Particularly for the typical new car buyer, who will keep his new car less than 10 years.
>>20949192How many immigrant a year do we get? Like 1 million? This has a massive effect on wages. Maybe if we went back to an organic job market we could see good american manufacturing. As long as we are running this social "experiment" it’s going to be more of the same.
>>20949249You’ll learn to nuance that opinion as you age. Right now you’re the capitalist equivalent of those starry eyed socialist 18 year old college students.
>>20947068Depending on the car, year it actually could. GM is known for their ability to cut cost.
>>20952844The pinto was still safer than most subcompacts of the day
>>20949542>without unionAll the things you listed are true for union jobs as well
>>20953131Actually I was wrong, it had average safety comparable to all of the other cars in its day>Pintos represented 1.9% of all cars on the road in the 1975–76 period. During that time the car represented 1.9% of all "fatal accidents accompanied by some fire." Implying the car was average for all cars and slightly above average for its class. When all types of fatalities are considered the Pinto was approximately even with the AMC Gremlin, Chevrolet Vega, and Datsun 510. It was significantly better than the Datsun 1200/210, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle. The safety record of the car in terms of fire was average or slightly below average for compacts, and all cars respectively. This was considered respectable for a subcompact car. Only when considering the narrow subset of rear-impact, fire fatalities is the car somewhat worse than the average for subcompact cars.
I try but a lot of it is shit or too expensive.
>>20953041Agree. Planned obsolescence wasn't a thing at the beginning of automobiles. It has slowly been snuck in. And the game theory prevents one from making better than the other because that would be a costly competition. Money more effectively spent on advertising.
>>20949179Bad jobs in America suck. STEM is fucking great, and half the time, if you know what you're doing, you don't even need a degree. The best part? You can learn everything you need to know for free on the internet.
>>20949231I'm 23 single male, no college degree, non-union, making $138k + benefits, no unions in my field.That might be true for non-STEM fields but STEM doesn't give a fuck about your antiquated economy. Read a programming book, nerd.
>>20947143What car is that?
>>209551931998 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT
>>20952887no, massive redistributionism and government seizure of industry is socialismfunny how that's always the only solution
>>20953056I'm 30, have a steady job, a house, a wife, and 2 kids. It's ironic you'd make such a statement since you're clearly a low IQ college kid.>>20953111With a union you don't get to represent yourself