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>Trump is refusing to do the work he promised on issues like infrastructure and drug prices as long as Congress keeps investigating his crimes and corruption.


WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump abruptly stalked out of a meeting with congressional leaders Wednesday with a flat declaration he would no longer work with Democrats unless they drop all investigations in the aftermath of the special counsel’s Trump-Russia report.

Democrats said the walkout seemed scripted. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called it all “very, very, very strange” and said she was praying for Trump and the nation.

After turning and leaving the three-minute non-meeting with the Democratic leaders, scheduled for a discussion of U.S. infrastructure problems, Trump strode to the Rose Garden where aides had gathered reporters and TV cameras for his demand that Congress drop its investigations that are increasingly leading to talk of what he called the “i-word” -- impeachment.

Trump assailed Pelosi in particular for her comment earlier in the morning on Capitol Hill that she believed the president was engaged in a “cover up” of the Russia probe.

Trump said, “I walked into the room and I told Leader Schumer and Speaker Pelosi I want to do infrastructure,” referring to the top Democratic senator, New York’s Chuck Schumer.

“But you know what we can’t do it under these circumstances,” Trump said. “So get these phony investigations over.”

The president didn’t shake anyone’s hands or take a seat, but spent three minutes contending he had been prepared to work on infrastructure, trade and other issue but now he couldn’t because Pelosi said “something terrible,” according to an administration official and another person familiar with what happened in the room. Trump then left before anyone else could speak.

https://www.apnews.com/abf4b46fcb07477d9871ad56df45b3ca
>>
Pelosi said to those still in the room — no Republican lawmakers were there — that she had known the president was not serious about infrastructure and would find a way out, according to another person familiar with the meeting.

Back on Capitol Hill, Pelosi said Trump “just took a pass” on working on national infrastructure problems.

Pelosi, flanked by Schumer and other House and Senate leaders, said the Democrats had gone to the White House “to give this president the opportunity to have a signature infrastructure initiative.” She said she would be praying for the president.

Trump tweeted back: “and Nancy, thank you so much for your prayers. I know you truly mean it.”

The meeting at the White House had been set weeks ago, after Trump and the Democratic leaders agreed to talk further about a possible $2 trillion infrastructure proposal. Trump was due to provide the Democrats his ideas on how to pay for it. Schumer said when Trump “was forced to say how he would pay for it he had to run away.”

Despite the sudden turn of events, the outburst followed a familiar script of Trump convening leaders at the White House only to try to turn the tables and refocus attention. He has stormed out of previous sessions.

Earlier Wednesday, Pelosi told reporters after a private meeting of House Democrats that Trump is “engaged in a cover up,” even as she tried to tamp down some Democrats’ rush toward an impeachment inquiry in their showdown with the White House.

Pelosi and five of her top investigative committee leaders spoke with fellow Democrats after an increasing number called for the beginning of an impeachment inquiry following special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russia election meddling and contacts with the Trump campaign

Those Democrats say the move would not necessarily be aimed at removing the president, but instead to bolster their position in court as Trump has broadly stonewalled their investigations. Some two dozen House Democrats have signed on
>>
With her leadership team, Pelosi, who has resisted pressure to impeach, pointed rank-and-file Democrats toward the legal battles that she said have already found success in forcing Trump to comply with investigations.

“We do believe it’s important to follow the facts,” Pelosi told reporters afterward. “We believe that no one is above the law, including the president of the United States, and we believe that the president of the United States is engaged in a cover-up — in a cover-up.”

A growing number of Democrats, incensed by former White House counsel Don McGahn’s defiance Tuesday of a House panel’s subpoena for testimony, have confronted Pelosi and pushed her and other leaders to act.

Pelosi has said she believes Trump is “goading” Democrats into impeachment as a political tactic. And Trump appeared to relish the Democratic division in a Wednesday tweet: “The Democrats are getting ZERO work done in Congress.”

Democrats leaving the meeting appeared to be taking Pelosi’s words into consideration. Tennessee Rep. Steve Cohen, who called for the impeachment inquiry on Tuesday, said he could see both sides.

Of leaders’ reluctance, Cohen said “it’s a political concern rather than an actual constitutional one.”

Rep. Katie Hill, a freshman from a California swing district, said she wants to let court actions play out a bit, and is undecided on starting an impeachment inquiry.

The more Trump “defies us, the more that it’s becoming an inevitability,” she said. “But I don’t think that the caucus as a whole is there yet.”

Some Democratic leaders, while backing Pelosi, also are signaling that a march to impeachment may become inevitable.

“We are confronting what might be the largest, broadest cover-up in American history,” Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told reporters Tuesday. If a House inquiry “leads to other avenues including impeachment,” the Maryland Democrat said, “so be it.”
>>
But South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn, the No. 3 Democrat in the House, counseled caution. A majority of Democrats would support impeachment, he said, “just not now.” He told CNN the House should follow a methodical process to get to the facts about Trump’s actions.

Amid the impeachment talk and despite Trump’s pledge to stonewall, there was one rate example of detente between House Democrats and the administration — intelligence committee Chairman Adam Schiff postponed a meeting to enforce a subpoena against the Justice Department after the department agreed to turn over a cache of documents related to Mueller’s report.

Schiff said the department “will begin turning over to the committee twelve categories of counterintelligence and foreign intelligence materials as part of an initial rolling production.”

Still, Democrats are continuing to escalate their requests for information. The House Judiciary Committee recently voted to hold Attorney General William Barr in contempt of Congress after negotiations broke down with the department over similar materials.

On Tuesday, House Judiciary Chairman Jerrold Nadler issued subpoenas for more Trump administration officials — former White House communications director Hope Hicks and Annie Donaldson, a former aide in the White House counsel’s office — for documents and testimony. The committee is expected to vote on contempt against McGahn in June.

McGahn is the most-cited witness in Mueller’s Trump-Russia investigation report, recounting the president’s attempts to interfere with the probe. And that makes his silence all the more infuriating for Democrats.

“Our subpoenas are not optional,” Nadler said. “We will not allow the president to stop this investigation.”

Democrats are also encouraged by an early success in the legal battles , a Monday ruling by a federal judge against Trump on in a financial records dispute with Congress. Trump’s team filed notice of appeal on Tuesday.
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>>401393
> “I walked into the room and I told Leader Schumer and Speaker Pelosi I want to do infrastructure,”
At this point infrastructure has practically become a joke.
>>
>>401398
Remember Obama and Biden's summer recovery? Much infrastructure.
>>
--

Trump angrily stormed out of a meeting with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer on Wednesday after demanding that Congress stop investigating his administration's crimes.

"Trump walked in to meeting with Dems on infrastructure, did not shake anyone’s hand or sit in his seat," HuffPost reporter Igor Bobic tweeted Wednesday, citing a source familiar with what happened.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Trump will refuse to continue his promised negotiations with Democrats in Congress on infrastructure and drug prices until Congress finishes its investigations into him.

"[Trump] objected to the continued investigation of obstruction of justice, he said he cooperated and gave his side of the story, as we’ve heard before, said Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL), who was present for the unprecedented meltdown.

Trump was upset at Pelosi for saying earlier in the day that said Trump was engaging in a "cover up."

The private angry display was followed up by a bizarre public event in the Rose Garden of the White House.

"I walked into the room and I told Senator Schumer, Speaker Pelosi, I want to do infrastructure ... but you know what? You can't do it under these circumstances, So get these phony investigations over with," Trump said.

The White House press office, led by press secretary Sarah Sanders, handed out childish leaflets to the press with "statistics" that purported to show why the investigations should be dropped.

During the event, Trump also berated members of the press for accurately reporting on the Mueller report's findings that he obstructed justice, and on the ongoing congressional investigations into the findings.

"This whole thing was a takedown attempt at the president of the United States, and honestly you ought to be ashamed of yourselves for the way you've reported so dishonestly," Trump told the assembled reporters, apparently referring to special counsel Robert Mueller's report.
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>>401397
>our subpeaons are not optional
That's where you're wrong dual citizen Nadler
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>>401399
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>>401404
That 3 letter word. J O B S
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>>401399
Remember when Obama and Biden defended Neo-Nazis after they murdered an American citizen during infrastructure week?
Oh wait, that was Trump after Charlottesville during a press conference on infrastructure.

Why does Trump even bother to try and do anything on Infrastructure when they only lead to public meltdowns?
>>
He's doing the nation a favor by not doing his job. We are better off when he's golfing and tweeting and out at his rallies. Seriously.
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>>401399
A lot more than got built under Trump.
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>>401414
Wow play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Nothing of value was lost
Sorry for your shortcomings in life
>>
>>401424
Oh really?
Name something
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>>401393
>“But you know what we can’t do it under these circumstances,” Trump said. “So get these phony investigations over.”
He's right. They can answer to their constituents.
>>
It must have been close to Trump's nap time. I know toddlers get pretty cranky around nap time.
>>
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/
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>>401434
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/foreign-policy/
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>>401437
>Overall, we rate Foreign Policy Least Biased due to balanced reporting with a very slight lean right and High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record.
>Right wing website exposes Trump is dirty and the Russian's bitch.
LOL
>>
>>401414
Obama and Biden dropped the ball badly when they got intelligence which showed then that Trump was a Putin puppet and did nothing about it. Obama and Biden are directly responsible for letting Putin force Trump on us because they could have done something to prevent it easily and they failed to act. They weren't good at doing their job, they got their asses handed to them day in and day by Mitch McConnel for 6 years too. Those two limp wristed do-nothings wasted space in the white for eight years without significant accomplishment.
>>
>>401401
Got a federal judge to go with that opinion?

Nadler does.
>>
>>401454
Got a law enforcement officer to enforce it?
>>
>>401417
This. If he is as terrible as they keep saying, you would think they would be ecstatic he plans to sit on hands
>>
>>401460
Yes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_at_Arms_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives
>>
>walk into a room, don't sit down, ramble for a few minutes then storm out
Truly a master of negotiations
>>
This isn't news. AntiTrumpets are just circlejerking and samefagging here.
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>>401477
>This isn't news.
lmao
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>>401393
Could this faggot just resign already? He didn't even want the position, hates it, and isn't even good at it couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag
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>>401469
Avoiding situations where you have no chance at winning is a commonly employed negotiating strategy
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>>401490
If only he was competent
We might not be here
Might.
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>>401491
>might
So there is still the possibility that he is competent than?
>>
>>401491
you'll shit talk the guy about anything and everything, you're irrational and insane with rage. you're insulting his negotiating methods as dumb when they're effective and widely employed only because of your hilariously massive butthurt.
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>>401490
>Avoiding situations where you have no chance at winning is a commonly employed negotiating strategy
This may have been an acceptable when Trump was the CEO of his own company and he not only had a say on who was in the room but also could accept sole responsibility for the failure or success of his decisions. Walking out on a situation because you feel like you can't "win" is not a viable option when the consequence is hundreds of millions of people suffering as a result of your fragile ego. The United States is not a business. A great deal of Trump's failures can be explained by his inability to understand this basic concept. Its far more than just him and his pocket book who suffer as a result of his incompetence and stonewalling his time around.
>>
>>401452
That's McConnell's fault, Obama wanted to tell the American people Russia was attacking the US, but McConnell said he'd not only openly say Obama was lying, but that it was a democratic plot to sway the election.
>>
>>401495
>you're insulting his negotiating methods as dumb when they're effective
The number of businesses he's tanked, times he has filed bankruptcy and hundreds of millions of dollars he lost on horrible deals is pretty conclusive evidence that his methods aren't effective. The only reason his business still exists is because Russian oligarchs started funneling an obscene amount of Soviet Era money through his company after the collapse of his casinos in the 90s.
>>
The big thing lost in this is how Trump got manipulated by Pelosi. Again.

It was clear this was Trump just showboating so he can whine like he always does. But Pelosi came prepared to say Trump was engaged in a cover up. Forcing Trump to say he's not engaged in a cover up, while also blocking everything and looking like he's engaged in a cover up. It wasn't as good as when Pelosi got Trump to claim credit for his government shutdown, but it's still shows how she can play him for a fool.

Now if only other democrats were as good as Pelosi as running circles around Trump.
>>
>>401502
>Soviets in the 90s
The Soviet union didn't exist past 91, so that must have been a shit load over those 2 years to support him through the 2000s
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>>401506
>The Soviet union didn't exist past 91
Soviet-era money, you numbskull. When the soviet union collapsed all of the money didn't go with it. I don't know if you've cracked a history book lately but Russian oligarchs made out with quite a substantial amount of money before the union's collapse. Government officials and mob bosses who were connected to the government at the time acquired millions of dollars state in property and assets during the post-soviet privatization process for pennies on the dollar and even sometimes for free. Soviet-era oligarchs and their billion dollar swiss bank accounts saved Trump from complete collapse in the 90's all because the moron tanked a casino franchise; arguably one of the easiest and fool-proof business models in existence. Google it.
>>
> stop obstructing me or I'll obstruct myself

Uhh.
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>>401510
It wasn't Soviet money after the Union collapsed though. It became Russian money.
>>
>>401514
>lame attempt to split hairs after getting btfo
>>
>>401514
Either way, you are BTFO'd.
>>
>>401477
>This isn't news.
Trump handled it the way he did specifically so it would become news. He wanted people talking about it.
>>
>>401514
>It wasn't Soviet money after the Union collapsed though. It became Russian money.
Ignoring for a moment that you are comically splitting hairs to avoid the fact that you've been proven definitively incorrect, you're fairly inaccurate about this as well. The only Russian thing about the money was the people who owned it. The entire reason Russian billionaires exist and why they're so universally loathed by the Russian people is because they didn't invest the money they stole from the collapsed Soviet Union back into the newly founded market-based economy. They squirreled it away in Swiss bank accounts to avoid being taxed by the new government and eventually went on to sink their fingers into dirty pies all around the world. In Trump's case, the pies were was shady real estate deals. They money was generated during the Soviet Union therefore it is Soviet-Era money. If I go off the coast of the Caribbean and uncover $15 billion dollars in 16th century Spanish gold it doesn't suddenly become Caribbean gold once I haul it above the surface. Its still 16th century Spanish gold regardless of what country I move it to. This fun analogy also holds no relevance to the topic you just got BTFO'd on.
>>
>>401414

Remember when Obama literally encouraged a riot over a criminal getting shot
>>
is it really that impossible for Trump to have been elected fair and square
>>
>>401545
I'm not sure what the election has to do with anything we're talking about. I don't recall hearing any politician calling for the election to be contested.
>>
>>401522
>>401516
I was splitting hairs to begin with, though.

>>401525
Since you seemed to be the most willing to converse and not just meme, when does the money stop being "Soviet?" The money is backed by the Russian government. It has been squirreled away in banks/invested outside Russia. Is the return on investments made with "Soviet" money also Soviet?

As for your Spanish gold analogy, I'm glad you recognized that it doesn't address the point since you are selling the gold as a commodity and not using it as actual currency. Saves a lot of time on my part.
>>
>>401545
It's been 2 years since people were crying about popular vote anon.
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>>401551
>when does the money stop being "Soviet?"
What does any of this have to do with what we were talking about? Why are you so fixated on this irrelevant, hair-splitting detail?

>you are selling the gold as a commodity and not using it as actual currency
You're really good at splitting hairs and de-railing conversations. At first we were discussing how you were 100% wrong about how effective Trump's negotiating methods are now you've somehow managed to veer our conversation off course into debating the transitive properties of convertible currencies and official currencies. I'm not diving down whatever retarded rabbit hole you're trying to dig here.
>>
>>401557
>why are you fixated on this
Why not? I find it interesting

>Trumps negotiation
I never talked about his negotiation skills. I just jumped in to discuss the Soviet money point.

Shame that you are so vehemently opposed to discussing this though. Could have been a nice reprieve from the constant political bickering
>>
>>401561
>Shame that you are so vehemently opposed to discussing this though.
It just has nothing to do with anything I was talking about. Russians funneled money out of the Soviet Union and used that money very briefly afterwards to funnel into foreign businesses. One of those businesses was Trump's failing real estate empire. Call it Russian money, Soviet money, it doesn't really matter.
>>
>>401564
Fair enough. Carry on with your shit posting about politics than. There is a new AOC thread up that you can jump into and bicker to your hearts content
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>>401566
>Derail an argument with irrelevant hair splitting
>Get BTFOd
>Start pretending like you're too good to even be in this thread associating with us bickering peasants

Classic
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>>401568
What argument did I derail? The guys who were arguing were and still are free to respond to one another and keep it going. My posting did nothing to stop that.

And I don't think I am better than you. Just tired of the constant barrage of politics for the past 4 years and saw an interesting potential for a different conversation. Sorry
>>
>>401568
>Start pretending like you're too good to even be in this thread associating with us bickering peasants
what a pleb, he should have just picked the people he didn't like and insulted them repeatedly like everyone else
>>
>>401568
based.

>>401566

BTFO'd
>>
>>401525
This is how I know for sure Ivan is here.

No American has this knowledge. Why does Putin employ english fluent Russians to troll our boards?

>big think
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>>401573
If you say so. Now get back to your arguing. Wouldn't want to derail things further, now would we?
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>>401578

>be powerful soviet.
>soviet union collapses
>take all the gold
>change clothes
>no longer soviet money

Thats some top quality logic Ivan!
>>
>>401580
Gold is a commodity and not a currency. We literally went though this with the other anons Spanish gold analogy that even he admitted was poor
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>>401495
Please get triggered elsewhere
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>>401525
>16th century spanish gold
according to spain's navy it still belongs to spain. There have been plenty of cases in the past few decades of the conflicts over this stuff, though I never heard of them actually sinking a boat over it, just posturing and warning shots at unarmed civilians
>>
>>401499
>The United States is not a business. A great deal of Trump's failures can be explained by his inability to understand this basic concept.

This is your problem. At the right's core, they want the US run by a business and by people with experience in business. Trump acting like an eccentric CEO just plays into his audience's mind that hes a genius.
>>
>>401502
The guy made his way from being just another rich kid in New York to being President yet people insist on continuing to insult him as stupid. Can you see how stupid that is? Only people fueled by jealous rage could be so blatantly idiotic.
Sure most presidents come from the "born super wealthy" class, Trump is one of them. There are thousands of people who were born in his generation with equal opportunity who failed to exploit it, yes somehow you insist and coming up with tortured logic reasons to insult the guy's intelligence.
>>
>>401586
>We literally went though this with the other anons Spanish gold analogy that even he admitted was poor
It wasn't a poor analogy because the spanish gold being a commodity or currency has nothing to do with the fact that simply transporting it to some other person or country doesn't spontaneously change it's origins. The anon you were speaking to used "soviet era money" simply to refer to the time and manner in which the money was procured. This minute, meaningless detail also has absolutely nothing to do with the point he was making. You basically stuck your dick into a conversation that had nothing to do with you for the sole purpose of bickering over unrelated semantics.
>>
>>401609
I don't think I've ever heard trump talk about any subject with a hint of intelligence
>>
>>401609
500 billion dollar loan is not "just another rich kid in New York".

Literally anyone who wanted to and had that much money could become famous. Literally anyone.
>>
>>401609
>The guy made his way from being just another rich kid in New York to being President yet people insist on continuing to insult him as stupid.
You have, for some reason, equated someone's ability to convince someone to buy a product with general intelligence. Trump is essentially a subpar used care salesman who lucked out by having a rich dad who (through multiple instances of tax fraud) gave him hundreds of millions of dollars to fund his grifts. Using the fact that he's worth a lot of money as evidence that he has superior intelligence is the same line of bullshit he used to convince a bunch of poor, racially anxious, working class white people to vote for a billionaire who not once in his life displayed any evidence that he gave a shit about working class people.

>There are thousands of people who were born in his generation with equal opportunity who failed to exploit it
This is patently false. There were not thousands of people who were born with multi-millionare land baron fathers who made their living off of fucking poor New Yorkers out of their housing. The people who were born to rich parents are, for the most part, still rich. That's how generational wealth works, dude.

>coming up with tortured logic reasons to insult the guy's intelligence.
The fact that the guy constantly tells lies, gets facts wrong, displays a chronic inability to understand the government he's tasked with running and demonstrably fails at the majority of ventures he gets involved in is not exactly considered tortured logic, anon. The man tanked his father's real estate company, somehow managed to run a casino into the ground and then only managed to survive because a bunch of billionaire Russian oligarchs funded his transition from real estate mogul to pop culture personality.
>>
>>401609
We had a daddy's money idiot president only two presidents ago, look how that turned out. How underage/retarded are you?
>>
>>401393

kek he ain't winning re-election

He was supposed to be the negotiator
>>
>>401545
Well Republicans have been caught red handed tampering with the election process for various offices all over the country before
Fool me once and all that you know
>>
>>401490
>situations where you have no chance at winning
The meeting was supposed to be about infrastructure. Trump bailed on it to bitch about the investigations. This is one hundred percent his doing and his fault.
>>
>>401461
Exposes the lie of their breathless pearl clutching. The reaction to trump has been every bit as cringe as trump. If he's satan how is he so incompetent? If Russians are hacking everything why no paper ballots? It's all blatant distraction and theatre.
>>
>>401538
>Implying Florida didn't let yet another murderer off the hook
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>>401621
New magic number?
>>
>>401651
This, you could argue that 2016 was rigged enough fro Trump because of the voter suppression laws in Wisconsin, where the amount of votes suppressed surpassed Trump's Margin of victory.

Then were was 2018 where the guy who 'won' the govenorship purged 10% of the voter rolls when he was the state's secretary of state, so it was pretty clear that election and everything else in Georgia was rigged.
>>
>>401633
>he ain't winning re-election
Pretty sure the Russians will just alter the vote counts this time, They did get into the tallies last time but didn't change anything and the Republicans have only weakened America's electoral security to just invite the Russians to do it in 2020.
>>
>>401525
That's pretty rational. I'm used to the Russia Russia Russia crowd bent dim. I guess they are finally getting good at the story.
>>
>>401545
Russia Russia Russia is the only working response to easily hacked machines podesta emails and #DNCFraudLawsuit. So basically yes. It's that impossible. No other move is acceptable to their goal set.
>>
>>401688
While I don't agree that Russia is a redirection from podesta and DNC, there are a whole lot of idiots on this board who don't know how to talk about anything else.
They come off as irrational fanatics blaming literally everything on Republicans in Russia to the point of absurdity
>>
>>401686
I'm trying to find it but Rachel Maddow did a great piece on one Oligarch in Russian after the fall of the Soviet Union who intimidated or killed workers who each got ownership of I think an Aluminum company/plant and consolidated everything to where it just owned it all.

I did find this one in terms of Trump's Russian connections with his housing.
http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2017-02-27

Feel free to fact check since I just linked to the transcript.
>>
>>401628
Fact immunity, immunity. You still think facts and logic and "intelligence" as you narrowly define it still matter. In fact they've never mattered. Perception is power. You've been sold a lie. You think his position is unfair and illegitimate because you have inaccurate assumptions about how things work. You were given those assumptions because generational wealth owns public relations and education. You don't know who your master even is.
>>
>>401630
Obama was from a super rich ruling class family. Why does everyone willingly neglect that? Obama was the same from class of incompetent, entitled Ivy League bunglers that Trump is from. Yeah, so was Bush 1 & 2 and Clinton & Reagan carried water for those folks, does that make them any better?
Why is being born rich a crime only for Trump and not Obama? Explain that in the context that you genuinely want me to believe you're a rational person.
p.s. The Obama administration ended up every bit as shit as the two Bush instigated recessions if not worse, Obama and Biden had intelligence available to them which would have permitted them to step in and prevent a Russian mole from becoming president and they did absolutely nothing about it, in fact Biden is trying exploit his own failure to campaign against Trump and Obama will never deliver to us the apology that we deserve for his dereliction of duty as commander in chief. It was his job to protect our country and he chose not to for political reasons and now we have to eat shit. I honestly regret voting for him twice. He also did jack shit about CO2 emissions as well and instead bent over for the Chinese and their WTO globalist allies at every opportunity and we're all gonna hang for that mistake as well. Hope and Change was just more of the same bullshit, big giveaway for banks, big auto an the insurance lobbies, nothing for any of us but missed opportunities and broken promises. At least with Bush you knew he was going to be total shit at the outset.
>>
>>401689
Russia is obviously a redirect. Search Podesta's emails for Russia. /sigh

If only facts mattered.
>>
Check this.

>Bank CEO got federal appointment after loaning Trump millions in 2018

Trump got a loan for $18.5 million in 2018, and a few months later, the bank's CEO was appointed to the Federal Reserve.

A top bank executive received an appointment to the Federal Reserve after his bank approved millions in loans to Trump in 2018.

Mother Jones reported that Professional Bank granted Trump a loan of $18.5 million in May of 2018 according to his recently filed financial disclosure forms. That money was used to finance the purchase of a mansion next to Trump's Mar-a-Lago from his sister, Maryanne Trump Barry.

Trump's company is currently offering the property out for rent for $81,250 a month (down from $100,000).

Trump was 15 months into his presidency at the time of the transaction.

In January, the bank's CEO and president, Abel Iglesias, was appointed to the Miami branch of the Atlanta Federal Reserve. He is now a part of the organization with considerable influence over the domestic and global economy.

Jean Tate, spokesperson for the Atlanta Fed, would only tell Mother Jones "we are independent" when asked about the financial connection between Trump, Iglesias and his appointment.

"There's actually a record of banks having a VIP program and treating politically powerful people differently than everyone else. So this is a concern that is well grounded in past practice," Kathleen Clark, an ethics expert and a law professor at Washington University in Missouri, told the outlet.

In contrast to Trump, President Barack Obama declined to refinance the mortgage on his home while he was in office. Obama's actions avoided the appearance of impropriety.

Trump continues to wheel and deal while in the White House, raking in personal profits from his family business because he refuses to put a wall of separation between his presidency and private business.
>>
>>401692
>Obama was from a super rich ruling class family
lmao what the fuck even is this
>>
>>401697

you could literally shove provable facts in the faces of these retarded Trump supporters and they'd still deny it
>>
>>401701
>you could literally shove provable facts in the faces of these retarded Trump supporters and they'd still deny it
No collision.
>>
>>401697
Obama was related through his mother to more signers of the Decalration of Independence and more Mayflower pilgrims than McCain, Romney, Clinton (either) or Trump, but not more than the shrubberies were. Furthermore he was related to African kangz via his father. That Mayflower pilgrim shit is the standard of patrician entitlement amongst the American elites, its like being related to royalty or a lord is in England. Mayflower even outranks Knickerbocker because of the Dutch period (and ancestry).
In contrast Trump is from an immigrant family who pretty much lived the American dream, his family came off the boat in New York same time all the jewish immigrants did about 100 years ago and worked their way up to the top.
>>
>>401706
>Obama was related through his mother to more signers
whoop de fucking do i'm related through my mother's side to emperors like once you back up twelve generations, it doesn't do shit for me today. believing that "ruling class family" has more to do with royal heritage has than with actual wealth is a belief straight out of the fucking feudal era or some shit.
>>
>>401708
OK whatever, have it your way, be an intransigent /pol/tard and keep on willfully believing everyone on your side is a saint and everyone on their side is the devil without taking reality in consideration when forming your monotonously predictable self-serving opinions.
>>
>>401706
so because his father worked in the Kenyan government that makes him a super rich ruling class family?
>>
>>401709
>OK whatever, have it your way, be
your post started off having literally nothing to do with the post it replied to and went downhill from there
>>
>>401703
Plenty of collusion, just no provable criminal conspiracy. Just because Trump and his lap dog says it, doesn't mean it's true.
Speaking of Bar...

>Barr complains that courts won't just let Trump do whatever he wants
Attorney General William Barr is apparently very upset that courts are preventing Trump from breaking the law and ignoring the U.S. Constitution.

In a speech to the American Law Institute on Tuesday, Barr whined incessantly about federal courts issuing nationwide injunctions to stop the Trump administration from implementing policies that are likely unconstitutional.

The injunctions "frustrated presidential policy for most of the President's term with no clear end in sight," Barr said, adding that courts have issued a dramatically higher number of injunctions to stop Trump's policies than they have in the past.

Since Trump took office, federal courts have issued 37 nationwide injunctions to stop Trump policies from taking effect until they were reviewed further. During President Obama's first two years in office, that number was two.

"Some say this proves that the Trump Administration is lawless," Barr said, adding that he disagrees with that interpretation.

But the simplest explanation is the right one here. Courts are blocking a lot more of Trump's laws than Obama's because a lot more of Trump's laws are invalid or unconstitutional.

In one particularly misleading riff, Barr said that "the only case litigated on the merits in the Supreme Court — the so-called 'travel ban' challenge — ended with President's policy being upheld."

Barr was referring to the Muslim ban, which Trump initially issued one week after he took office. Barr ignored the fact that Trump's first two attempts at a Muslim ban were so blatantly unconstitutional that the Trump administration abandoned them after courts issued nationwide injunctions.
>>
Democrats/Socialist are blaming Trump for the actually crimes the Democrats/Socialist have actually done over and over. It is far passed time you Democrats/Socialist disappeared.
>>
>>401718
I said "collision."
>>
>>401718
>Plenty of collusion
No contusion.
>>
>>401708
Well, by that measure you've got a pauper king.

In case you haven't been watching, Trump ain't particularly rich.
>>
Infrastructure week is just a state of mind, every day is infrastructure week if you believe hard enough. Except for today because Trump has canceled infrastructure week.
>>
>>401760
Go back to not running the country Trump.
>>
>>401417
>>401461
he's talking about the job as it relates to handling infrastructure. he's still going to do all the retarded shit he's known for
>>
>>401924
[Citation needed]
>>
Is handing out another $16 billion in bribes to farmers, because of his losing trade war with China, so it looks like Trump was lying. Again. Or he's just wants to prove he's great at losing money.
https://www.apnews.com/8e53de3b258d4a56af4631fe87b26e95
>>
>>401934
>>because of his losing trade war with China
Citation needed.

The fact is, either through sheer stupidity or monumental greed, the West in general and the US in particular have been letting China rob them blind since the 80’s. Trump’s trade war, while likely too little, too late, is at least an attempt to rectify the situation. If you still need to stamp your feet and blame somebody for the predicament, you could start with the Clinton, Dubya, and Obama administrations.
>>
>>401701
He just called trump a russian mole
>>
>>401946
>Citation needed
Read the article, Trump having to burn more money on yet another bail out to farmers because of how they're getting BTFO by China. I.E. losing.
>>
>>401954
China is massively wealthy because the Democrats in Congress willingly gave China MFN trade status back in the 1990s when Bill Clinton asked them to. Previously George Bush Sr had asked them to and the Democrats said "no, this is a terrible idea, China isn't a democracy, its bad for union workers, etc", but Clinton was able to shop it through.
That what the 1999 WTO riots in Seattle were about.
>>
>>401954
Tariffs generate revenue for the United States government. It's not clear whether the combination of tariffs, discounted by the tariff pass-through rate, plus the subsidies is currently revenue positive or negative.
>>
>>401955
>>401958
>generate revenue
Because they're taxes on the poor.
Meanwhile Trump is wasting 16 billion more bailing out farmers again.
Meaning Trump's trade war is costing Americans money and ruining its agricultural production.
>>
>>401987
>Because they're taxes on the poor.
Tariffs are paid by a combination of Chinese firms and American consumers.

Money paid by Americans to the government remains in the hands of Americans. Whether "Americans" are cost money depends on whether the cost of the trade policy exceeds the portion of the tariffs that are paid by Chinese.
>>
>>401692
>Obama was from a super rich ruling class family. Why does everyone willingly neglect that?
Because it isn't true? Seriously, do you just spew whatever comes to mouth or did some Russian troll sight actually convince you that Obama was from a rich family? His dad left his family when he was two and died in a car accident in Kenya and his mother wasn't rich.
>>
>>401989
>American consumers.
The poor, you're just being dense on purpose now.
Trump is hiking taxes on the poor for his trade war.
>>
>>401992
>The poor, you're just being dense on purpose now.
"American consumers" is the most accurate possible description of the types of people who pay taxes on imported goods.

>Trump is hiking taxes on the poor for his trade war.
Importers pay those taxes. They only pay tariffs indirectly based on pass-through costs. But if you do your accounting that way, you may as well claim that the Trump subsidizes the poor thanks to the pass-through effect of agricultural subsidies.
>>
>>401992
>Trump is hiking taxes on the poor
You know this is utter subjectively interpreted garbage
>>
>>401997
>>401998
>Generate revenue is not taxes
>Tarriffs are not taxes on the poor
Stop gas lighting
>>
>>402003
>Tarriffs are not taxes on the poor
Tariffs are taxes on consumers. Poor people consume things. So do non-poor people.
>>
>>402004
Poor people consume the stuff that tarrifs are put on a lot more.
Stop splitting hairs and just admit Trump's trade war is crippling farmers to the point he's wasting billions bailing them out and put more tax hikes on the poor.
>>
>>402008
>Poor people consume the stuff that tarrifs are put on a lot more.
And agricultural subsidies are subsidies for eaters, and poor people eat more as a proportion of their income than rich people, so we can just as accurately describe agricultural subsidies as "subsidizing the poor."

>Stop splitting hairs and just admit Trump's trade war is crippling farmers
Trade wars harm exporters. Farmers are American exporters, so they're hurt by this. Literally nobody has denied this. Where you go wrong is when you claim without any evidence whatsoever that tariffs which extract income from 1. Chinese people 2. non-poor American consumers 3. poor American consumers are a complete policy failure without even stopping to consider what the breakdown looks like.
>>
reminder that comrade sanders, known hater of the poor, is in favor of tariffs on low-wage countries where american firms outsource

can you think of one?
>>
>>402008
You know many of the most prominent Democrats support fighting the trade war, right? Even Sanders. China has been waging war on us since they got into the WTO.
And you have no idea how much of the tariff the consumer is going to pay. China has been eating the costs so far.
It's almost like you want unfair trade, fentanyl, and forced technology transfers. It almost like you want America to lose.
Just vote for Biden then. He loves China.
>>
>>401393
>>401399
>cut taxes
>I'm totally serious about a big mutli-billion dollar infrastructure program.
>>
All of this could be resolved if Congress would just hurry up and impeach him. They don't even need a good reason. Just do it so the Senate can promptly ignore it, and move on.
>>
>guilty until proven innocent
the absolute state of pitchfork holders
>>
>>402013
1. Tarriffs are taxes on goods that come into America
2. Meaning poor Americans have to pay more for goods that were normally cheap because of these news taxes
3. Farmers are hurt because of China's retaliation where they either sell less or not at all because China buys them from other sources.
Trump hiked taxes on the poor and are leaving farmers to die, just admit it.

>>402016
I don't like being lied too, given how Trump say 'trade wars are easy to win' and this one is blowing up in his face where China is just matching whatever he does at expense of American workers.
>>
Trump believes he's the state, and investigating him is treason.

>Trump: FBI agents who investigated me committed a crime punishable by death
Trump's two-day-long meltdown continued on Thursday afternoon, as the obviously worked-up president baselessly accused federal investigators of committing treason — a serious crime punishable by death — all because they looked into his ties to Russia.

Trump listed off a number of his favorite targets, saying former FBI Director James Comey, former acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, FBI agent Peter Strzok and FBI lawyer Lisa Page tried to wage a coup against his presidency, referencing a much-ballyhooed "insurance policy" comment Strzok and Page sent in a text message, which Republicans have taken out of context to make look like some sort of nefarious plot against Trump.

"That's treason, that's treason," Trump said of the non-existent coup he says was waged against his campaign. "They couldn't win the election and that's what happened."

Trump said earlier this week at a rally in Pennsylvania that some of his political adversaries had committed treason, but he didn't specifically list their names.

On Thursday, NBC News' Peter Alexander pointed out to Trump how serious that charge is, reminding Trump that treason is "punishable by death," and asked who specifically Trump was accusing of such a serious crime.

Of course, none of the people listed above committed any crimes, let alone treason.

According to the U.S. Code, "treason" is defined as, "Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000."

That definition clearly doesn't apply here.
>>
Yet Trump — clearly terrified of the congressional oversight probes hanging over his head and the possibility of facing indictments if he loses the 2020 election — is ratcheting up his rhetoric in the hopes it will help him win again next November.

"That's what's happening now, they don't feel they can win the election so they're trying to do the 1,000 stabs, let's keep stabbing," Trump said of the congressional investigations into his conduct, once again baselessly accusing Democrats of "treason" for conducting legitimate oversight.


Keep in mind Trump always projects his own flaws onto others, so this means he knows he committed treason when he sided with the Russians and continues to put the interests of a hostile foreign power ahead of America.
Uh ho
>>
>>402024
>Trump say 'trade wars are easy to win
We haven't had that many problems so far. In fact the average American can't even perceive a negitive consequence. Nice job dodging the bipartisan support for this trade war though.
>China is just matching whatever he does at expense of American workers
American workers? Do you mean manufacturing? Cause they are overall doing great.
>Farmers are hurt because of China's retaliation where they either sell less or not at all because China buys them from other sources.Trump hiked taxes on the poor and are leaving farmers to die, just admit it.
Not that Anon but
Farmers are not going to die. And the trade war isn't even their biggest problem right now. Only 15 percent of the corn has been planted in the grain belt due to flooding. This will require more disaster funding than the trade distribution. And you don't understand how global markets work. If China won't buy from us, they have to source their food from somewhere else. The nation they buy it from was already selling to someone else, so that market just became available.
That's the difference between selling food and phones. An American can just save up for a little while longer if he really needs new Chinese plastic junk. A Chinese guy can't do the same thing if his family is hungry. The sad thing is, if the rest of the world can't produce enough food for China, the Chinese guy is going to be the one to pay those full tariffs just to feed his family.
By the way, did you hear that China just went through the worst loss of pork in history? They had to burn more hogs this spring than the US produces in a year. And a similar disease is going through their chickens.
>>
>>401659
Bullshit. Imagine a coworker is shit talking you in a meeting with the whole company, like really laying into you and calling for you to be fired. Then you go into a scheduled meeting about budgets an hour later and pretend nothing happened. You've got to know they're not going to be genuine. They fucking hate you, and will "work with you" but no matter what, they won't actually work with you. It's a repeating theme and Trump is sick of it.
>>
>>402036
No one is going to be starving because of the traifs. The only real danger is small farms getting closed in the US and China having to rethink its sources of X banned item. Neither side in the meantime has really laid out the hard hitting hikes like rare metals or silcon valley tech.

As non farmer, only thing I'm worried about is China finding permanent alternatives to American imports.
>>
>>402039
Nixon ran the government just fine even while he was being impeached. If you refuse to do work at work because some coworker called you an asshole you'll be fired before the coworker is.
>>
>>402042
>The only real danger is small farms getting closed in the US
Congress and the president have already signaled their willingness to intervene with the tariff revenue.
>Neither side in the meantime has really laid out the hard hitting hikes like rare metals or silcon valley tech.
Look at how Huawei is doing. Their CFO is projecting 20% less now.
>As non farmer, only thing I'm worried about is China finding permanent alternatives to American imports
As a farmer, and one that doesn't even grow a crop the government bales out, I can say that is not something you should be worried about. Agriculture is not like finished goods. If there is demand for soybeans, and your country has soybeans, you will sell them. If a the Brazilians normally sell soy to Japan and Vietnam, but China buys it all up, America can then sell to those other two nations. Northern China is going through a mid sized famine right now, so the prices for a staples are going to be up around the globe.
>>
>>402042
>Neither side in the meantime has really laid out the hard hitting hikes like rare metals or silcon valley tech.
Actually they have, once Americans can't buy their cheap electronic crap, you'll see more people cry about against Trump's trade way.

>>402059
>Congress and the president have already signaled their willingness to intervene with the tariff revenue.
By just handing them money as opposed to creating a real solution to Trump's trade war.
>>
More news regarding Trump's cover ups.

Since the two investigations by Jeff Sessions found no wrong doing, Trump wants his personal stooge to open an investigation into the start of the Russian investigation. Look for the wannabe dictator to create false charges on innocent people as he wastes resources to deflect from his own crimes.
>>
>>402069
It 'might' continue, but not with how Trump is bungling it. Then again it's been proven time and again Republicans can't win wars.
>>
>>402067
Also it shows Trump lies again, because he claims he can't do investigations and legislation, but here is is authorizing investigations into people he think are his political enemies.
>>
>>402065
>By just handing them money as opposed to creating a real solution to Trump's trade war.
The solution is to make it clear that the trade war will continue with or without Trump. And you need to understand that China was making a trade war on us. We're just fighting back now.
I am telling you that this is bigger than 2020.
>>
>>402070
>It 'might' continue, but not with how Trump is bungling it. Then again it's been proven time and again Republicans can't win wars.
I don't even care if that's how you have to cope. Because the Chinese communist party is a much bigger problem than the Republicans.
>>
>>402044
Nixon's crime was legitimate. Trump is, and always was being investigated for political reasons.
And if you'd be fired for refusing to work with a hostile person, then you work somewhere really shitty.
>>
>>402087
>Trump is, and always was being investigated for political reasons.
Its definitely not because dozens of people in his inner circle were found guilty of corruption, fraud and perjury. Its just a coincidence that everyone who hangs out with Trump ends up being a criminal.
>>
>>402087
Very good grammar and syntax, Ivan. They've taught you well at the troll farm.
>>
>>402073
Domestic enemies are always bigger problem than foreign ones idiot.

>>402087
Trump is doing a lot of the same things Nixon did, it's just this time Trump has a propaganda network to muddy the waters. Republicans were Nixon's bitches as well so that didn't change, fuck anyone who says their were heroes in that party, they only turned on him after the smoking gun tape was released to save themselves.
>>
>>402087
As someone who was neutral at first on the investigation there are some major reasons I am now starkly against Trump:

- Trump flatly refusing to release his taxes and using executive privilege/ outright lying to keep them hidden

- Upon release of the Mueller report, Barr intentionally lied on his behalf to give his base a false sense of entitlement over the words "innocent and no obstruction"

- The Mueller Report itself outlines 10 acute cases of obstruction and does not vindicate Trump as innocent, just that there was insufficient data.

- Trump is using executive privilege to PREVENT MUELLER AND OTHERS FROM TESTIFYING ON THE REPORT. WHICH IS A DIRECT FORM OF OBSTRUCTION AS IT PERTAINS DIRECTLY TO CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT.

- The previous point is huge because it renders our CONSTITUTION meaningless and undermines the direct responsibility of Congress to investigate the President. This is a de facto Tyranny if he gets away with it.

These are all directly in relation to the process now I'll lay out more shady revelations that occurred in the past year or so.

- A multiplicity of sources have confirmed that Russia has bankrolled Trumps empire as far back as 1984, and continued to bankroll him, alongside the Deutsche Bank to the tune of 4 BILLION DOLLARS. It was further reported that as late as 2018 Trump money had entered the German bank and exited the bank through Kushner and the Trump foundation into Russia individuals banks.

- Trump has never admonished Putin for directly engaging in digital warfare against the citizens of the United States through fake news attacks.

- Trump has directly supported Putins causes in various ways, but most glaringly is pulling out of Syria, a huge win for Putins Autocratic Russia.

- And lastly, Trumps economy is not the magical recovery he alleges it to be as per most if not all major Economic research syndicates, but rather a continuation of an upturn that began in 2010. It was a tax welfare for the rich.
>>
FEEL FREE TO STEAL THIS WALL OF TEXT AND ADD TO IT. THE TRUTH MUST BE HEARD.

- Ex Trumper.
>>
>>402090
It's also a coincidence that he directed a guy to commit a felony.
>>
If you need more proof Trump is unstable and he's wants to be dictator.
>Trump uses farmer event to make each of his aides say how 'calm' he is

Trump spoke at a Thursday White House event that was supposed to be about helping farmers — and managed to turn it into a bizarre public therapy session to soothe his hurt feelings about negative news coverage.

Trump has been widely criticized and mocked for petulantly shutting down negotiations over infrastructure with Democrats on Wednesday.

As farmers and other officials stood behind him, Trump called upon several of his White House underlings to reassure him that, in fact, he had been very "calm" during his meltdown the day before.

"I walked out, I was so calm, you all saw me minutes later, I was at a news conference, I was extremely calm," Trump said. He wasn't.

Not satisfied with his own retelling of the story, Trump then made the moment a farce by calling on five of his subordinates one-by-one to testify on his behalf.

"Very calm, no temper tantrum," said Kellyanne Conway.

"You were very calm you were very direct," reassured aide Mercedes Schlapp.

"You were very calm," added top economic adviser Larry Kudlow.

"Very calm and straightforward," said White House press secretary Sarah Sanders.

Deputy press secretary Hogan Gidley told Trump he had "every right" to be angry during the exchange, but still backed up the "calm" story pushed by his fellow Trump sycophants.

Trump's claim that he was "calm" is betrayed by the angry and rambling Rose Garden appearance he gave right after the meeting on Wednesday, where he attacked Democrats for conducting oversight of his corrupt presidency.

Trump showed that it is always about him and how he is perceived.

Trump is the one who has caused farmers' economic problems with his trade war — and he hurt them once again by putting his own ego first at an event that was supposed to be about them.
>>
>>402098
The Farmers being pro republican just proves that the Republican Party isn't a tempered voting base, but rather a symptom of culture gone wrong. Fanaticism at its finest.

The Republican Party is the reason real, pragmatic progress that is balanced for the good of the whole has been completely stifled.
>>
>>402099
That's the kind of talk that keeps those farmers as republicans, people hate being told that something they've made part of their identity is inherently flawed
>>
>>402101
Which is exactly the problem. Their entire identity is wrapped around a false dichotomy.

Trump is bankrupting farms and all he has to do is say "I love farmers" and they are like "yeah this guy loves us!"

I'm not interested in coddling a weak minded snowflake, I'm interested in them pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and learning to think for themselves.
>>
>>402090
If you look closely at anyone in politics, you'll find crimes, so I'm not impressed. It's almost impossible to not break the law, which is why there are protections against when an investigation is allowed to begin, and what scope is afforded to it.

>>402093
I love this "Trump is a criminal mastermind with a network of protection, wheels within wheels!" angle. He's not a bright man. I think he's Bush level IQ with some narcissistic personality disorder to make it interesting. If he is commiting a crime, he'll tweet about it before and after doing it.

>>402094
As someone who was neutral at first, then believed that maybe he was really guilty because everyone was saying if, then realized it was all a propaganda lie when the report was released and it was literally fucking nothing: Your post is a bunch of nonsense.

>>402099
The Democratic party is constantly fighting for control with legitimate "100 million deaths and counting" style socialists and "pay attention to me or I'll put you in jail" SJWs. So I think the problem is a little deeper than "it's those damn Republicans which are the problem!".

>>402102
lmao. I've been saying dems have been doing this to black communities for decades. But the whole hurt farmers angle you're pushing here is bullshit. Farms are all owned by huge companies. Did you think a tens of billions of dollars industry was made up by mom and pop plots of land? No, it's extremely industrialized, and made of big companies with big lobbying and propaganda budgets. They'll be fine.
>>
>>402099
The Republican voting base has already been paradoxical because based on how many conflicting views they have, they should be at each other throats.
The real reason they stick together to vote every 2 years is because of the hatred of the left.
If the left vanished overnight, the Republican party would be immediately killing each other.
>>
>>402114
Trump is not bright, but he's an unbelievely good con man and he conned his way to the head of the republican party, and becuase Republicans have zero principles nor actual care about America, they will not only put up with Trump, but support the fact he wants to destroy the very foundation of America nad turn us into a dictatorship.

Do not forget, Trump supports have openly said they want Trump to be a dictator. Trump has managed to tap into the worst aspects of America we haven't seen since the 1930s when there was a movement towards fascism that was stopped by FDR.
>>
>>402116
You need to lay off the memes.
>>
>>402114
>I think he's Bush level IQ with some narcissistic personality disorder to make it interesting.

Bush graduated Ivy League. Bushes IQ is far greater than Trumps.

>If he is commiting a crime, he'll tweet about it before and after doing it.

Trump wrote this tweet, and then his team "claimed it wasn't Trump who had wrote it" because, due to the nature and date of it, implicated him as having prior knowledge of the criminal acts

>I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

The above tweet was later followed by

>Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!

Which was his response to Putin for choosing to not retaliate to Obama putting sanctions on Russia for the Flynn controversy. The reason this is important is because he is exhonerating the criminal actions of Flynn by telling Russia to "just wait til I'm president".

This is just one example of how you're wrong. Trump tweets about his criminal lying on many occasions. You can't really, but you'll try to, defend him.
>>
>>402114
>The Democratic party is constantly fighting for control with legitimate "100 million deaths and counting" style socialists and "pay attention to me or I'll put you in jail" SJWs. So I think the problem is a little deeper than "it's those damn Republicans which are the problem!".

Another example of taking an extreme minority with a loud voice that gets too much attention because you are a poltard that sifts through all of the extremely vocal college aged students Twitter accounts.

Most democrats are liberal lefties. Liberal lefties are not identitarians. If you need a treatise on the difference, I highly suggest you read this article from someone who Jordan Peterson himself linked:

https://areomagazine.com/2018/08/23/no-we-are-not-right-wing-we-are-liberal-lefties-and-we-are-many/

>Farms are all owned by huge companies. Did you think a tens of billions of dollars industry was made up by mom and pop plots of land?

Five Facts to Know about Family Farms

1. Food equals family – 97 percent of the 2.1 million farms in the United States are family-owned operations.

2. Small business matters – 88 percent of all U.S. farms are small family farms.

3. Local connections come in small packages – 58 percent of all direct farm sales to consumers come from small family farms.

4. Big business matters too – 64 percent of all vegetable sales and 66 percent of all dairy sales come from the 3 percent of farms that are large or very large family farms.

5. Farming provides new beginnings – 18 percent of principal operators on family farms in the U.S. started within the last 10 years.

I'm really enjoying how easy it is to counter you.
>>
>>402119
Bush was a fucking idiot puppet for his family. If you think graduating from an Ivy league school means anything for someone from a wealthy family, think again.
And lol. I'm sure you did a better job investigating than Mueller did.

>>402120
It doesn't matter what you think. The dems have the same extremist problem the repubs have. That's it. Don't make excuses.
>64 percent of all vegetable sales and 66 percent of all dairy sales come from the 3 percent of farms that are large or very large family farms.
>18 percent of principal operators on family farms in the U.S. started within the last 10 years.
What I'm reading is "only big industrial farms actually produce real yield, and independent farmers go bankrupt and sell their land to the next sucker at a rate of 18% per 10 years.
lol. I'm feeling very countered here. Most of those small independent farmers sell their crops for twice the price using marketing wank like "organic", and they're still supported by subsidies. That's how inefficient they are.
>>
>>402122
Imagine losing this hard on a debate and responding with mindless drivel.

Next challenger please, I rather enjoy dismantling the petty minds of feckless conservatives.
>>
>>402123
Okay. I mean I considered your baseless conspiracy theory and insistence that it's okay when dems do it drivel as well.
>>
>>402118
They're all facts, Trump is completely incoherent when you read his words and strip it of his cockiness and bravado.
Republicans care more about getting reelected than the country.

Look at how Lindsey Grahm just threw away what little dignity he had away along with his balls after his master John McCain died.
>>
>>402124
You ignore broad points and hone in on whataboutisms.

The majority of democrats are liberal lefties, a more moderate incantation of leftism while the identitarians make up a very small minority of under 25 voters whose panties are up in a bunch.

Republicans are stark identitarians who wrap their entire ideology up in a false dichotomy. If Republicans ceased to exists here and now, the sensible liberal lefty would have a moderate exodus to the right that was far more pragmatic and aimed at balanced nation building.

If Democrats disappeared from the nation you would have a new Tyrannical Empire because its statistically proven that the Right is far less moderate than Leftists.
>>
>>402123
Also I'm not a conservative and I didn't vote for Trump. You're just a fucking idiot who slams out 2000 characters of garbage like it's nothing, because that's what it is.

>>402125
I literally called Trump a retarded narcissist but still you think I worship him or something. Yeah, and you're the winner here with your "BUT JUST LOOK AT IT FROM MY CRAZY ASS ANGLE!".
>>
>>402128
Did i ever say I was talking about you? No, I'm talking about Republicans, calm down.
>>
>>402128
>2000 words of garbage.

I literally put forth facts that completely dissolved your attempt at a retort. You responded by discounting the 32 to 40 percent (or around 1.8 million different farming operations) that weren't large scale.
>>
>>402127
It's not whataboutism you daft cunt. About half of democrats want open borders, which is an insane position to take regardless of your opinions on immigration. That's not moderate. The Democratic party has been taken over by morons who think universal income is a fantastic idea, and a baker should be forced to bake a gay cake. It's fucking looney town, not the party I agreed with fully until about 2012. I don't trust any of the current Democratic nominees with nation building.
The Republican party is full of the same morons it's always been full of. They want guns, God (although less so lately), jobs, and the Constitution. If you can pitch an idea which aligns with those, they're on board, which historically makes them easily manipulated, but blacks are still buying that dems give a fuck about them to this day, so manipulation is hardly a partisan trait. Anyway, I can't see them going full dictatorship when they hold the Constitution as perhaps more sacred than the bible. All you have to do is say "yeah but that's what the founding fathers fought against" and they'll shut up pretty quick.

>>402130
>32-40% of product from 97% of the producers.
They're people larping as farmers. It's shockingly easy to end up in the statistics for being a small farmer, and most small farms don't give much of a fuck about any farming income, it's just a hobby.
And the statistics are generally all fucked anyway because there's huge money surrounded it all.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/big-farms-are-getting-bigger-and-most-small-farms-arent-really-farms-at-all/
>>
>>402132
>40 percent of farmers are LARPing.

Do you really want to die on that hill? Because it seems like you really want to die on that hill.

FARM PRODUCTS:

Bird seed (sunflower, proso millet, canary grass, etc.), Forage brassicas - turnips, rutabagas, Kochia, Medics,Sainfoin, Switchgrass ,Borage, Broomcorn, Canola, Castor beans, Comfrey, Corn (for oil), Crambe, Cuphea, Flax
Guayule
Jojoba
Kenaf
Lesquerella
Lupine
Meadowfoam
Milkweed
Perilla
Safflower
Sesame
Sunflowers
Vernonia
Adzuki beans
Amaranth (food and feed)
Barley
Buckwheat
Dry edible beans (fieldbeans)
Einkorn
Emmer
Field peas (food and feed)
Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)
Hops
Indian corn
Jerusalem artichokes (food and feed)
Kamut
Lentils
Malting barley
Mung beans
Organically grown grains of all types
Peanuts
Pearl millet
Popcorn, white and colored
Psyllium (medicinal)
Quinoa
Seed production - registered and certified seed, turfgrass, etc.
Sesame (seeds)
Sorghum (syrup)
Soybeans, incl. natto soybeans for tofu, tempeh; and Edible soybeans (edamame)
Spelt
Triticale
Wheatgrass
Wild rice
Asparagus
Baby vegetables
Cabbage
Carrots
Celery
Chinese water chestnuts
Cole crops (broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, kohlrabi)
Corn, miniature
Fenugreek
Edible flowers
Garlic
Gourds, ornamental
Gourmet vegetables
Greenhouse production for out-of-season crops
Heirloom varieties of any vegetable
Herbs - culinary and medicinal
Horseradish
Luffa gourds
Mushrooms- agaricus, shiitake, oyster, morel, etc.
Onions (transplants, shallots, sweet, early)
Organically grown vegetables of all types
Oriental vegetables
Peas and pea shoots
Peppers - specialty types (purple, hot, etc.)
Pumpkins
Red beets
Salad greens - mesclun
Sprouts (alfalfa, bean, etc.)
Squash
Sweet corn
Sweet potatoes
Tomatoes - specialty types
Truffles
Wasabi
Apples, esp. Heirloom varieties
Asian pears
Brambles - blackberries, raspberries, loganberries, blackraspberries, etc.
Blueberries
Cranberries, currants, Elderberries
>>
>>402122
>What I'm reading is "only big industrial farms actually produce real yield, and independent farmers go bankrupt and sell their land to the next sucker at a rate of 18% per 10 years.
Most small and independent farms range between 10-300 acres, while big industrial farms are literally hundreds of thousands of acres. Small farms can't compete with agri monopolies that put out tens of millions of pounds of produce in a single growing season.

Organic "wank" actually has a time and place in Agriculture, but that has nothing to do with efficiency.
>>
Gooseberries
Kiwi, hardy
Lingonberries
Melons - specialty types
Paw paw
Rhubarb products
Strawberries, day neutral types
Table grapes, seeded and seedless
Wine grapes for home brewing market
Bedding plants - annual flowers, herbs, etc.
Field grown cut flowers
Field grown mums
Flowers for drying
Greenhouse production
Hydroponic production
Organically grown bedding plants and fruit trees
Potted annuals
Native plants/wild flowers and seeds
Regionally hardy shrubs and perennial flowers
Bamboo
Christmas trees
Firewood
Paulownia
Sawlogs
Tree seed collection
Wild nuts
Beefalo (hybrid of buffalo and beef)
Buffalo (American Bison)
Deer - fallow deer, red deer
Elk (wapiti) for meat and antlers
Fish bait - worms, minnows
Pheasant for release/restocking programs and meat
Alpacas and llamas for pack animals, hair, and pets
Boar
Butterflies (for gardeners)
Fox, red, silver, and blue
Goats for milk, meat, and hair (Angora)
Horses - draft horse breeding, miniatures, exotics
Mink
Mules and donkeys
Ostriches, rheas, emus
Rabbits for meat, lab animals, and hair (Angora)
Reindeer
Sheep/Lambs for meat, wool, milk (for cheese)
Veal, conventional and certified
Water buffalo
Worms (for composting)
Yaks

I haven't even gotten through half the list yet. Shall I go on?
>>
>>402133
What constitutes a farmer? Selling cherry tomatoes grown in your back yard at a farmer's market?
>>
>>402134
Yet, they still require equipment and all buy from the similar sources.

Just because they are big doesn't mean they are somehow unharmed by increased costs. In fact, the bigger they are, the less margin they have for increase due to contract obligations and marginal profit.

I'm only entertaining his argument because of his claim that "40 percent of the output by 97 percent of the farms is TRASH GAY"

Lmao.
>>
>>402137
Yes, or eggs sold in your front yard. That's why he's retarded no matter how many walls of text he copy pastes.
>>
>>402138
40% is the high estimate, which I haven't seen anywhere except some trash article. The USDA says it's actually 24%, and that's for "small family farms" which somehow drag in as much as $350,000 gross per year. At that point, you're going to be involved in any number of the big lobbying groups which rake in the sweet delicious subsidies and get braindead things like ethanol gasoline mandated.
https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2017/march/large-family-farms-continue-to-dominate-us-agricultural-production/
So yes, you're still retarded.
>>
>>401501
The president has higher responsibilities than playing he-said she-said in the press with political opponents, Obama failed to perform his duties as commander in chief by allowing political considerations to take precedent and we are all currently paying the price for that. All of us except Obama, who gets to play elder statesman while entirely escaping blame for his terrible and cowardly decision making. If a white president had handed over the White House keys to Putin people would be calling for his head, but Obama gets a pass because so many people on the left are terrified of publicly naysaying a black guy.
>>
>>402133
>LARPing
Can you not use /pol/ppet forced memes? I might take you seriously then.
>>
>>402146
>by allowing political considerations to take precedent
The Republicans would have declared that the Democrats were enacting a coup in 2015 instead of 2016 and obstructed the shit out of them, just like they actually did. And what would be achieved by that?
>>
>>402150
This McConnell flat out said he'd put the interests of his party ahead of the national security of the United States.

Maybe he meant Obama should have been an asshole and constantly called out Republicans for their obstruction and treason, and did a recess appointment for the supreme court instead of letting McConnell steal it.
>>
>>402152
Obama should have set the tone early not to fuck with him by following Holder's advice to prosecute the Bush Admin for war crimes instead o playing nice and constantly bringing an open hand to a gun fight.
>>
>>402150
>>402152
Stop making excuses for the guy, he clearly failed to protect the country's national interests. The evidence of that has been in the White House for almost 3 years now, probably having piss parties in the Lincoln bedroom. Its infuriating that Biden's feet aren't held to the fire for his part as well, instead he is benefitting from having Trump as president. Nobody in the Democratic party held Hillary responsible for her willing participation in starting the Iraq War either, the DNC's high priests and priestesses hold themselves above criticism and then they continue to repeat the same mistakes over and over again, its been going on like this for half a century. The Democrats haven't had leadership with a real pair of balls since LBJ was in charge and during that same period the Overton window has moved lightyears to the right. We all suffer as a result and Obama and his ilk get a free pass.
How are they ever going to learn from their mistakes if there is never a penalty for failure? Stop enabling irresponsibility, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
>>
>>402162
>LBJ
He let Nixon get away with committing treason by sabotaging the Paris peace talks.
You'd think Democrats would wise up to Republicans committing treason since you had Nixon, Reagan and Trump do it now.
>>
>>401393
What a fucking faggot
Why is he such a big fucking baby all the time
>>
>>402114
>If you look closely at anyone in politics, you'll find crimes, so I'm not impressed.
>I literally don't care if the president is a criminal
No wonder he's a criminal with paragons of virtue like you in the party backing him
>>
>>402149
That's/tg/'s you fucking /pol/fag
>>
>>401524
That says more about you than him, to be honest. Good job taking the bait.
>>
>>402170
>treason
Hell of a word you're just throwing around there. Do you understand what it means? Or is that unimportant because you're going for "look at me" points?
>>
>>401393
>crimes and corruption
What crimes and corruption specifically? (Affirming this under path is part of a lawful subpoena, incidentally.) Or do you presume general, nebulous guilt and just need the cooperation of the victim to prove it or good innocence?
Nice tyranny you got there. We fought a revolution to end that shit, you understand.
>>
>>402192
>Good job taking the bait.
He wanted the attention, but he's not getting it for the reason he wanted. He thought he was making a shrewd move and putting pressure on the Democrats, but he just comes across looking like a petulant child.
>>
>>402195
>multiple federal judges: nah
Congress can investigate for any terrain pursuant to legislation they may or may not pass. That's not an argument, I'm summarizing the rulings of at least two federal judges.

Take it up with them.
>>
>>402202
>pursuant to legislation they may or may not pass
Congress is empowered to pass legislation regarding a single citizen? Interesting, I don't remember that being in the Constitution. I do remember this:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Are you at all familiar with "writs of assistance?"
>>
>>402196
It still works out in his favor. As long as you cant shut up about every breath he takes, hes got you wrapped around his finger.
>>
These are the musings of an innocent man according to right wingers?
>>
>>402195
>What crimes and corruption specifically?
Well there is the fact that Trump committed a felony campaign finance violation with his lawyer who is now serving a prison sentence. The Mueller report brought up 10 separate instances of Trump deliberately interfering with the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election.
>>
>>402229
>hes got you wrapped around his finger.
Then it goes both ways. He can't shut up about the media and the Democrats. I guess they have him wrapped around their fingers.
>>
>>402226
Are you familiar with the court rulings?
>>
>>402262
>Are you familiar with the court rulings?
Not that Anon, but I usually wait for rulings that are a bit more supreme.
>>
>>402231
>Trump committed a felony campaign finance violation
oh so we can expect the impeachment today then?
>The Mueller report brought up 10 separate instances of Trump deliberately interfering with the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election.
And yet he made no determination as to whether a law had been broken?
>>
>>401414
Remember when Obama supplied the cartels with more guns?
>>
>>402193

>Nixon
Conspired with the South Vietnamese to scuttle the Paris Peace Accords which prolonged the Vietnam War for years leading to hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions more Vietnamese dead

>Reagan
Conspired with Iranians to prolong the hostage crisis in exchange for selling them arms even after the new Iranian president won on a platform of releasing the hostages.

>Trump
>Attempted to or did colluide with a hostile foreign power that attacked the US's election and not only refuses to recognize the attack did exist, but actively supports said hostile foreign power's interests.

It's the treason, stupid.
>>
Reminder:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/
>>
>>402265
Mueller cannot indict or charge a president. Congress and the Senate have to do that. Mitch McConnell will never do that though.
>>
>>402288
>Mueller cannot indict or charge a president. Congress and the Senate have to do that. nobody in their right mind will ever do that though.
FIFY
>>
>>401414
>Remember when Obama and Biden defended Neo-Nazis after they murdered an American citizen during infrastructure week?
>Oh wait, that was Trump after Charlottesville during a press conference on infrastructure.
condemning hate and violence on all sides should not be controversial
>>
>>402285
>https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/
>Anonymous sources.
>>
>>402370
He equated nazis with anti-nazis, that meant he was defending nazis.

There are no fine people among Nazis.
>>
>>402370
>condemning hate and violence on all sides should not be controversial
Trump knows that the large majority of his supporters hold white supremacists views. His attempts to normalize their beliefs as simply a "difference of opinion" and deny their role in growing global trends of extremist violence is a calculated move to avoid upending his racially anxious base before the 2020 election. Whether or not Trump is a white supremacist is irrelevant to the fact that he understands upsetting them would be endangering a large percentage of his support base.

>>402371
The only thing the anonymous sources provided the article was their personal perception of Trump during their business relationships and why the relationships soured, anon. The hard facts concerning Trump's dealings with Russian are available for anybody to read if you care to. Cope harder, Ivan.
>>
>>402449
>He equated nazis with commies
FIFY
>There are no fine people among Nazis
There were more groups than the Alt-right there. They bailed when the tiki torches came out. Trump specifically denounced the Nazis though. But you already knew that.
>>
>>402451
>Trump knows that the large majority of his supporters hold white supremacists views
Source?
>>
>>402449
oscar schindler
>>
>>402451
>The hard facts concerning Trump's dealings with Russian are available for anybody to read if you care to
Even Pelosi? Quick start the impeachment!
>>
i just dont understamd why trump hasnt been assassinated yet
>>
>>402454
>https://theintercept.com/2018/09/18/2016-election-race-class-trump/

>In this election, education represented group status threat rather than being left behind economically. Those who felt that the hierarchy was being upended—with whites discriminated against more than blacks, Christians discriminated against more than Muslims, and men discriminated against more than women—were most likely to support Trump.

I'll concede that the term "white supremacist views" is a little vague. I'm not trying to say that a majority of Trump supporters are the kinds of people who were at Charlottesville waving swastikas and screeching about jews but you don't need to be a violent protestor or an extremist of any kind to believe that maintaining supremacy in our culture and economy is important. Trump plays to those fears constantly. Doing things like removing protections for LGBTQ people in state funded homeless shelters, threatening to withhold funds from Universities for their perceived slights against far-right speakers and consistently pardoning/advocating for people he believes have been unfairly persecuted for their right-wing beliefs he has firmly established that his #1 priority is to preserve the identity and legitimacy of straight, white, christian ideologies. He plays into the delusion that straight white men are the persecuted population in our country and those who believe the same thing are overwhelmingly more likely to support him.
>>
>>402449
>no fine people among nazis
John Rabe
>>
>>401607
This. Part of me hopes that it actually does wreck everything just to make a point, but I know they'd still find a way to blame the Democrats.
>>
>>402473
>white, working-class voters who expressed fears of “cultural displacement”
That's not racism anon. Walk up to anyone and ask if they want to be culturally replaced. Nobody offers that answer without being asked first.
>>
>>402453
>People who are against Nazis are commies
When was Captain American a commie?
>>
>>402500
>That's not racism anon.
Did you see the word racist anywhere in my post? The cultural difference between racism and supremacy are quite significant.

>Walk up to anyone and ask if they want to be culturally replaced.
There is a difference between being afraid of cultural replacement and being afraid of no longer being the sole dominant force in your country anymore. One is about maintaining survival and the other one is about maintaining dominance. The delusion that white people are the persecuted population in America is just one product of the greater false narrative that white Americans being forced to make room at the table for other populations for the first time in their history is tantamount to oppression and genocide.
>>
>>402515
>The delusion that white people are the persecuted population in America is just one product of the greater false narrative that white Americans being forced to make room at the table for other populations for the first time in their history is tantamount to oppression and genocide.
This, when you come from a position of privilege, equality will look like oppression.
>>
>>402515
>Did you see the word racist anywhere in my post? The cultural difference between racism and supremacy are quite significant.
no they aren't anon.
>>The delusion that white people are the persecuted population in America is just one product of the greater false narrative that white Americans being forced to make room at the table for other populations for the first time in their history is tantamount to oppression and genocide.
That's a quote anon. not data.
>>
>>402515
>There is a difference between being afraid of cultural replacement and being afraid of no longer being the sole dominant force in your country anymore.
But the question was about cultural replacement.
>>
>>402515
>The cultural difference between racism and supremacy are quite significant.
White supremacy is founded on racism.
>tantamount to oppression and genocide.
You have brain damage.
>>
>218 replies
>58 posters
>>
>>402547
>Conversations cannot happen, especially when one side (Pro-Trump) is clearly in the wrong.
>>
>>402570
as soon as a conservative enters the conversation 100% of the participants in the thread must start rabidly shitposting and never look back

it's the law
>>
>>402574
We should take the fight to their land, their people, their blood.
>>
Trump is doing something, he's making Americans lose jobs because of his failing trade war.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23/u-s-beer-industry-blames-trump-tariffs-for-u-s-jobs-decline

The beer industry is blaming Trump's disastrous trade war for the loss of 40,000 jobs between 2016 and 2018. Two beer industry trade groups said the increased cost of aluminum, thanks to Trump's tariffs, have caused brewers large and small to cut back their investment, resulting in the massive job loss, Bloomberg reported on Thursday.

"Aluminum tariffs are increasing brewers' costs and are an anchor on a vibrant industry," Jim McGreevy, chief executive officer of the Beer Institute, said in a statement. "Each brewer is deciding for themselves how to absorb that expense, whether it’s raising prices, laying off workers or delaying innovation and expansion."

During the two years before Trump took over, jobs in the beer industry grew by 27%. Then Trump slapped a 10% tariff on aluminum and the number of beer-related jobs dropped from 2.23 million in 2016 to 2.19 million in 2018.

Aluminum makes up more than 11% of the cost of manufacturing beer, according to a 2018 Beer Institute analysis. To make up for the higher cost they must pay, the industry called Trump's tariff a "tax on beer," noting that "consumers who choose to drink beer will be people who ultimately bear the cost of this tax."

A beer industry spokesperson told Bloomberg that she could not place all the blame of the job losses on Trump's tariffs, but evidence "supports that brewers are making fewer investments because of the added cost of aluminum."

Trump's trade war is hurting more than the beer industry. Farmers are struggling to find an overseas market for their products, resulting in a dramatic increase in bankruptcies. Trump is planning to implement a $16 billion bailout for farmers, but many farmers are still reeling from the economic consequences of Trump's actions.
>>
>>402505
He ain't real, m8
>>
>>402587
The Trump tariff on aluminum didn't start until mid 2018. How can they blame jobs lost from 2016 and 2017 on the tarriff?
>>
>>402617
Same way Republicans blamed Obama for the 2008-2009 budget deficit, completely irrationally. Hey wow everyone acts irrationally and our country is in the shitter, who'd have guessed.
>>
>>402619
Just pointing out a fallacy in the methodology of the report. No need to sperg out
>>
>>402617
>Waiting until a something happens to outline long term strategy, business policy, and investment.
>>
>>402617
Doesn't matter, they're blaming Trump's trade war for the increase in Aluminum which is forcing them to fire American workers.
>>
>>402619
obviously something is missing here. Maybe its faulty reporting and the industry was simply blaming Trump for being in office.

>During the two years before Trump took over, jobs in the beer industry grew by 27%. Then Trump slapped a 10% tariff on aluminum and the number of beer-related jobs dropped from 2.23 million in 2016 to 2.19 million in 2018.

I think theres a number misallocation here because in that paragraph they say 2018, while in the previous they say between 2016 and 2018.

Pretty sure whoever wrote this has autism.
>>
Everyone except the most hardcore shills agree.

Pelosi beat Trump, again.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/22/pelosi-trump-meeting-1340123
>>
>>402725
>Aluminum tariffs started
>Afterwards, beer industry shed 3% of jobs
Yeah, and I washed my car and then it rained, ergo washing my car caused it to rain
>>
>>401393
what reason do democrats have for wanting trump to do his job? The GOP wouldn't take this kind of thing from Obama, and he was a fucking moderate weakling, why on earth should the democrats offer the GOP any fucking leeway when the GOP will only respond with it in bad faith?
>>
>>402885
wooshed bigtime on you.

try not being partisan and using logic.
>>
>>402890
Because Trump being a traitor and destroying the country, and actually doing stuff to help Americans can be mutually exclusive sometimes.
>>
>>401477
Cope: the post



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