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File: 468354308.jpg (77 KB, 534x712)
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-guns-florida-idUSKCN1S74GZ

Florida’s legislature on Wednesday passed a bill allowing teachers to carry guns in the classroom, expanding a program launched after the deadly high school shooting in Parkland with the aim of preventing another such massacre.

Florida’s House of Representatives voted 65 to 47 to pass the bill after hours of debate over two days in which the Republican majority thwarted Democratic efforts to amend, stall or kill the measure. Florida’s Senate approved it 22 to 17 last week.

Republican Governor Ron DeSantis is expected to sign the bill into law, enabling school districts wishing to take part in the voluntary Guardian program to arm those teachers who pass a 144-hour training course.

On Feb. 14, 2018, a former student armed with a semiautomatic rifle opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, killing 17 people and wounding 17 others.

President Donald Trump and the National Rifle Association have argued an armed teacher could provide the best defense against a shooter bent on mass murder.

Opponents questioned whether the solution to gun violence should be the presence of even more guns and warned of the danger of a teacher misfiring during a crisis or police mistaking an armed teacher for the assailant.

Passage marks a victory for gun-rights advocates, who were on the defensive a year ago when Parkland students inspired nationwide protests in favor of gun control.

After the Parkland shooting, Florida lawmakers rushed through legislation that required schools to place at least one armed staff member or law-enforcement officer at each campus.

The law also imposed a three-day waiting period for gun purchases and raised the age limit for buying rifles from 18 to 21 - remarkable measures in a gun-friendly state.

Although last year’s law allowed some school personnel to carry weapons, guns were still banned from the classroom.
>>
Backers of arming classroom teachers revived the issue this year, arguing that school shootings often erupt too quickly for law enforcement to respond.

In anticipation of passage, school employees in 40 of Florida’s 67 counties already enrolled in or planned to take the 144-hour course, a spokesman for the Speaker of the House said. Some counties have resolved not to participate in the Guardian program.

Florida’s gun-control advocates had made stopping the proposal a top priority, among them Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense, which is funded by billionaire and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

End.
>>
In theory this sounds great but in practice most teachers are lazy fucks and will probably ND into their class or get their gun stolen.
>>
Shoot teachers first, steal gun, continue with school shooting. What will happen is a sudden rise in teacher-on-student shootings and lazy handling like keeping it in an unlocked drawer or some stupid shit.
>>
>>391236
Jesus America
Get your shit together
>>
>>391254
We are. By giving the teachers the means to defend their students.
>>
>>391236
>enabling school districts wishing to take part in the voluntary Guardian program to arm those teachers who pass a 144-hour training course.
>The law also imposed a three-day waiting period for gun purchases and raised the age limit for buying rifles from 18 to 21

non American here but this sounds like a net loss for pro gun activists. How many schools and / or teachers going to want to do an almost 150 hour course?
>>
>>391236
How about safe rooms instead
>>
>>391236
How will they balance the accessibility of these guns in emergencies while fully restricting access to hormonal teenagers? Gonna be hearing even more shootings in Florida schools, imo.
>>
>>391270
Likely a mix of
>Holsters which only allow the wearer to draw the weapon
>CC mandatory
>Prescreening which teachers can be armed
>Rotating which teachers are armed day to day
>>
You know what would fix the serial killers and gun problem?

More guns
>>
>>391279
Like it or not, retard, this is a huge improvement even it it doesn't solve the underlying problem. Now those serial killers have to think "any adult I see might have a gun" when before they could have full confidence that only someone in a police uniform was any kind of threat. First off, pussy bitch shooters won't even do it because they don't want to get shot. The hardcore ones will think twice about going in a school since they might get stopped quickly. The truly hardcore ones will make it a minor mission to kill all adults first, which will buy kids time to get the fuck out.
This is all that's needed. A simple hardening of the target will dissuade people, and after the first guy is stopped by a teacher the sociopathic fucks will scratch "schools" off their potential target list.
This shit should have been done immediately after v tech. Today we would probably be talking about bombings of public spaces though, because none of this solves the real problem. What we really need is to do, is re-institutionalize. When a family knows their kid is deranged, and a psych can sign off on that fact, the crazy fuck should be locked up somewhere. Indefinitely if necessary. It doesn't have to be shitty like it was in the 50s.
>>
Utah has allowed it for awhile. The worst they have had happen is a teacher accidentally shot her toilet out from under her. Which is hilarious.
Armed teachers have had a lower rate of negligent discharge than law enforcement officers, since the adoption of the program.
My sister is a teacher in Utah, and she carries a ruger lc9 on her thigh or waist.
>>
>>391267
This. Not to mention if they start arming teachers the school district opens itself up to a myriad of lawsuits, so I m sure it will be HEAVILY discouraged. But hey, not like any of the Americans here are actually going to bother to read the damn thing and will just get stuck on the clickbait headline.
>>
>>391299
I can't wait until we give our kids kevlar bookbags then the shooters have to think "oh shit he's got kevlar on"
>>
I like how America would give Guns to teachers before they would even think about paying them well or not overcrowding classrooms
>>
>>391256
>giving the teachers the means to shoot their students
>>
>>391347
You know damn well we are making them pay for those guns out of pocket, commie.
>>
>>391354
God Bless, America
Can we get them to pay for the program too?
>>
>>391256
>Conservative logic
>>
>>391344
That would be retarded since first of all a rifle doesn't give a fuck about light kevlar, and second it requires a change of behavior in everyone. This only requires that some dedicated teachers become competent in the defense of their students, and are given the ability to do so. It's shit that this is necessary, since nobody will do anything about the actual problem, but it's a solid mitigation in the face of retard politicians.
>>
>>391357
>Conservative logic is to arm responsible adults in the vicinity of common soft targets
>Liberal logic is to disarm literally everyone
>Nobodies logic is to deal with the rampant mental illness epidemics sweeping our young people
>>
>>391358
>It's shit that this is necessary,
Its not
This is just public hysteria
>>
>>391359
This is more than mental illness. The entire culture and mentality of Americans is fucked and has been for generations. Might as well classify the entire country as a mental institution.
>>
>>391358
>light kevlar
Why wouldn't I want our kids protected by military grade kevlar? You don't understand the type of people we're dealing with here anon.

I'm talking PASGT vest and helmets on standby in the classrooms.
>>
>>391359
Dealing with mental illness requires some type of social healthcare and of course right wingers wouldnt ever support that communist bullshit.
>>
>>391365
>If you dont support my exact solution to the problem then you dont care about the problem
Maybe stop making school so shitty for anyone on to upper 50% of the bell curve? How about we stop acting like an 8 year old that doesnt want to sit still for 4 straight hours has a mental illness that requires SSRIs? Lets drop NCLB for starters and start back on a track of rewarding success instead of only punishing failure
>>
>>391368
The school shooters are all fuckheads, some are dropouts that are out for revenge, incels who can't deal with rejection, or /pol/tards who shouldn't have been let outside in the first place. They are nowhere near the upper half of any bell curve and their only success is being subhuman shitstains. Their reward could be a bullet through the dome from the philosophy teacher.
>>
>>391375
>They are part of the other group, they barely even qualify as human most days. We should have just murdered them in the crib and be done with it
Truly a mystery what drives these kids to want to kill their peers. Maybe some more brain pills and anti-bullying excersizes will do the trick
>>
>>391279
You are (unintentionally) correct: an Armed Society is a Polite Society.
>>
>>391377
What needs to happen is a constant surveillance of the most common group to of school shooters, white boys. When they are shown to have symptoms correlating to a possible school shooter in the making, you send them to a facility where they won't pose any danger to others or themselves.
>>
>>391256
what the fuck, you people are a fucking bunch of retards, even in fucking Botswana people dont need to haveguns in schools, get your fucking shit together murrica.
>>
>>391390
But muh constipational rights and freedumbs
>>
>>391385
>What needs to happen is a constant surveillance of the most common group to of murderers, black boys. When they are shown to have symptoms correlating to a possible crime in the making, you send them to a facility where they won't pose any danger to others or themselves.
You'd get raped by the ACLU before you could propose the legislation, for good reason. Race and sex based discrimination at the legal level is harmful to society. The law should be an absolute equalizer. It's not in practice, but the ideal should be chased whenever possible. Punishing thought crime is similarly harmful. People should be judged on their actions and their intent, not their beliefs.
>>
>>391385
Why dont we expand this to other epidemics we have then? Why not start prosecuting people predisposed to murder in general, or assault? Rapists, thieves, even school shooters just take the data on what groups do it most and pre-prosecute them! Lets just get that data together and stop all crime ever! Thats way easier than dealing with the underlying issues that lead to these societal problems
>>
>>391385
Why not constantly surveil the most common group of murderers overall, black men?
>>
>>391398
>What needs to happen is a constant surveillance of the most common group to of murderers, black boys.
They already do that, the high incarceration rate, remember? Their schools are already like prisons and they monitor their actions constantly.

If white boys could only be judged by their actions and intent, you only get to judge them after they've committed their shooting in most cases since no one is monitoring their actions beforehand. Laws won't do anything since it's already illegal to do a school shooting. Unlike black boys police usually don't care if a white boy has access to a gun. Thinking of shooting up a school should be a punishable offense since that's intent. If you don't want to solve this issue just say so and let Americans play the "will by child come back home from school today?" lottery. At least now the teachers can try to deal with them but you have to wonder about their mental state too.

>>391421
As if anyone bothers to find out what the actual underlying issues are. It's always the same shit about mental health or immigration or some other distraction. If Americans don't even want to know what their problems are they should just be monitored and dealt with.
>>
>>391421
>execute everyone
>crime drops to 0
perfect peace achieved
>>
>>391449
>Mental health problems are just a distraction from real causes
Is this peak gun grabber?
>>
>>391459
>gun grabber
lol what a paranoid faggot, I want everyone possible to be armed
>>
>>391364
Flak jackets for fourth graders when?
>>
>>391537
soon in a kindergarten near you
>MEDIC!
>>
>>391449
>They already do that, the high incarceration rate, remember?
What bullshit. The high incarceration rate is because of petty drug charges since like 90% of black guys in a city are holding.
>>
>>391381
False
>>
>>391448
Black men are more likely to kill each other.
>>
>>391236
OR (and hear me out) instead of forcing all teachers to carry fire extinguishers on them at all times, the building itself could be designed in a way that a fire in a room will burn that room down to the ground without touching any other room or hallway. Everything in it could he rated for the purpose of fire containment.
'I have to go potty', 'do you have clearance to leave this room?'
>>
>>391390
To be fair, Botswana is one of the more stable and developed African countries out there.
>>
>>391582
So are white men.
>>
>>391385
>>391421

Regardless of the demographics, the takeaway from this story should be that we have now been forced to invent a solution to a problem that literally no other first world country has at this scale. I think, given the current climate, this is the most immediate solution that Florida legislatures could think of. There will never be any decent way to frame the optics of a possible teacher/student firefight taking place on school grounds. Unfortunately our culture of violence and untreated/undiagnosed mental illness has lead us to training teachers to trade bullets with their students. The situation and demographics what it is because a) white males are subject to less scrutiny and suspicion by law enforcement and the general public than their minority counterparts and b) our horrendous healthcare system and toxic culture that has bred a generation indifferent to violence and suffering is a perfect breeding ground for school shooters. Simply put, our society builds these people. The "fuck you, I've got mine" mentality of American life has established us as the most wealthy, industrious, narcissistic, violent, unhappy and emotionally dysfunctional country in the world.
>>
Shit's going to hit the fan the first time a teacher shoots a student in self-defense, or claims it was in self-defense..
>>
>>391604
You guys need to think up better hypothetical problems. Muh sacred children gun free holy place isn't very effective. Neither is what if the guns accidentally shoot a kid, or more guns to solve guns HURR DURR.
>>
>>391299
You are pretending you know what's going on in a school shooters head and don't know what you're talking about. I'm no psychologist, but I bet most understand it's a suicide thing to pull off and don't care what happens to them. I mean they already hate themselves, so why would they?
Most school shootings, as per the number of times happened, are accidents or suicides. And this dumb bill makes it easier for both of those things
Also, psychopaths =/= sociopaths
>>
>>391381
An armed society is Battleground America
>>
>>391236
>Not arming teachers with crew-served automatic grenade launchers with SMART warheads
>Not equipping all students with Improved Outer Tactical Vests and Titanium Helmets
>Not installing reactive Armor on the outsides of classroom doors
>Not installing deployable dual General Electric 5-barrel Autocannons with Depleted Uranium pyrophoric core penetrators
>do you even worship guns, America?
>>
>>391252
Why dont you just go and take the gun from a cop or someone CCing. I'm sure they are just lazy and retarded. Assuming you can even tell when someone is CCing.
>>
>>391600
This, 100%
>>
>>391606
>Muh sacred children gun free holy place isn't very effective.

It's effective everywhere except the USA. And it's not a gun issue. Switzerland has guns, shitloads of guns. It's a "We're not gonna treat mental health and also we'll let the bigger, burlier kids pick on the rest because he can do a sportsball really good, and then be surprised when the bullied child who was obviously drifting down a path of untreated mental issues gets a gun and blows away the other students" issue.
>>
I mean you'd think after Presidents were killed by guns America would smarten up.
>>
>>391684
>the 99.99999% white
You've been bashed over the head a few many times with Mein Kampf if you genuinely think that your average white Swiss citizen and your average white American are even remotely comparable in temperament or culture. The decrease in crime could have something to do with the fact that Switzerland genuinely gives a shit about the people that live there and don't view perpetuating and ignoring centuries of abject poverty as collateral damage to unbridled capitalism.
>>
>>391684
Because they actually address issues faced by their people instead of having a bunch of politicians who do nothing but go WELL IF WE HAD LESS NIGGERS/SPICS/JIZZSKINS WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS MESS with their respective audiences clapping up a thunderstorm while nothing happens.
>>
>>391679
Their collective intelligence went the way of JFK and the like
>>
>>391237
>most teachers are lazy fucks and will probably ND into their class or get their gun stolen.
It'll weed out the teachers who deserve to be paid more from the ones that don't
>>
>>391693
gun ownership doesn't correlate with high levels of violence, but other things do.
>>
>>391632
You're right: everyone in a school should CC. That way an attacker couldn't possibly choose who to prioritize first.
>>
being the land of equal opportunity shouldn't someone make special accommodations so we can have a disabled school shooter, maybe have the FBI rig up a tank like wheelchair and let someone go wild with it sort of like how they give working bombs to would be terrorist who don't know how to make their own bombs and let them blow stuff up to drum up business and keep GAO budget cuts away
>>
>>391718
NO CHILD GETS LEFT BEHIND - WITHOUT A .45 CAL PISTOL
>>
>>391721
>Call of Duty: Stephen Hawking
>>
>>391708
Like untreated mental issues, which was my point. I'm not coming for your gun, I'm just saying take your fantastic spastic of a child to a therapist before he decides to get your gun and vent his frustrations. Then we wouldn't need teachers to carry firearms to class.
>>
>>391676
Switzerland also trains its people to use guns through mandatory military service, and their citizens have an entirely different view of guns than Americans. They view guns as a means of national protection, not for individual protection. It's the exact opposite in the USA, where gun ownership is used as a way to protect the individual, including against American people and the American government.

In addition, the ammunition for the rifles provided to the Swiss militia is subsidized through the government. The ammunition can be sold at shooting ranges, but must be used at the range. In other words, they're not even allowed to personally keep ammunition for these weapons. The Swiss do have other guns of course, but the gun ownership rates are lower than statistics show when taking into account the lack of ammunition for military rifles.
>>
>>391254
I wonder what shit 3rd world cock sucking country decided posting this was a good idea
>>
>>391236
giving a gun to underpaid, annoyed, stressed out people who babysit children all day may not have been the best choice on Florida's part.
>>
>>391803
If what you are saying is true, then thank you for teaching us about your country. Unfortunately the United States of America is infected by large corporations, greed, and an unstoppable war machine. Our people have been left behind and discarded by the very people that swore oaths to serve us, they serve themselves and masters that follow party lines. American politics is almost all run and governed by businesses and corporations, and while they prosper, we are left to manage our lives and safety on our own. I don't blame Florida for taking measures to protect children, I approve of this step. I just hope that the regulations put in place don't come back to haunt the children.
>>
>>391279
>gun problem
What did he mean by this?
>>
LMAO We really out here scarring a whole generation
>>
>>391814
Not the best choice, but it does fit the image of the state.
>>
>>391676
It seems to just be a white school problem period.l Worst I can think of other countries have is religious nutters attacking schools because they teach women or random terrorist bombing by al-sha-bah.
>>
>>391898
>white problem
It's not. Just because the white shootings can't be binned as "gang related" does not mean that this isn't a problem for everyone. By taking a racially charged position on the topic you are only going to delay any real change happening.
>>
>>391915
Blacks and Latinos shoot each other on the streets for personal grudges. Whites shoot up schools, synagogues, churches, masques, malls, movie theatres, diners, music concerts, post offices, McDonald's and Walmarts indiscriminately because THEY'RE BEING OPPRESSED or some bullshit. The former can be usually has clear motives that can be addressed if anyone had the willpower to, the latter is derangement actively fed to the white masses by demagogues and the elite.
>>
>>391999
Came to post this, someone did it first.
>>
>>391999
Blacks and Latinos should have the willpower not to shoot up liquor stores ,pimp out women and children,and mass produce drugs.you crack down on these animals and they cry out THEY'RE BEING OPPRESSED.most crime in my town comes from black neighborhoods,hmm wonder why they don't have the will power to stop being n*ggers?
>>
>>391999
The fact that you believe that gang violence is limited to the streets is laughable.
>>
>>392009
>mass produce drugs
Didn't know blacks and latinos owned big pharma, the Emerald Triangle and the CIA. Keep being retarded.
>>
>>392014
Yeah because they don't have jobs.you need a job and a work ethic to get a job in pharmaceuticals or the CIA.i guess if they converted to Islam they could work in the emerald triangle.
>>
>>392019
>work ethic
Getting middle America addicted to drugs does take a certain kind of mentality that only pill pushers and three letter gangs could match. Imagine what they could so if they didn't hate America.
>>
>>392020
Imagine how much nicer blacks and Latinos would be treated if they didn't form drug dealing gangs that destroy there own communities.
>>
>>392027
>You can count on 1 hand the school shootings by whites.
you have more fingers on one hand than everyone else in this thread has on two combined
>>
>>392021
Imagine how nicer the world would be if whiteys weren’t hooked on dope.
>>
>>392029
T. Redneck Cracker
>>
>>392024
What about the 99.9% of blacks and spics who never commit murder?
>>
>>392029
Your racism is a little too old timey for my taste.
>>
>>392029
>A majority of our crime comes from minorities who embrace a culture of crime and ignorance.
You know absolutely nothing about the world if you genuinely believe that being white is the solution to crime.

>>392024
>lol blacks and spic kill people and hundreds the times that whites do.
I've love to see the stats that show that blacks and latinos kill hundreds times more people than whites do.

>Whites committing mass shootings is an outlier.
Well, that's just incorrect.
>>
>>391254
Why bring a gun to school when you can just going an alligator?
>>
>>391270
No you're going to hear the typical crazy shit you hear about coming out of Florida.
Alligators and people using things the way they ought not to be used.
>>
>>392121
T. pig fucker
>>
>>391270
How does anyone with a firearm in home restrict access to hormonal teenagers, you nanny cunt? How do police?
>>
>>392135
You know racism doesn't have a color asshole.any person can be racist,like you.im proud to be white,white power is nothing to be ashamed of,and you prove that to me,so fuck off and keep hating.
>>
>>391267
The three-day waiting period isn't a huge deal, in fact its quite commonplace since the 80s when Reagan legislated away Saturday Night Specials. The age limit thing is probably unconstitutional, either you're an adult or your not.
>>
>>391236
Omg Americans are phuckin retarded
>>
>>391269
If the students at the school know the safe room protocols, they're not safe. Another armed student in the locked room, a preplaced explosive. Fucking curly slides exiting the building would be better than putting everyone in sardine cans.
>>
>>391271
>Holsters which only allow the wearer to draw the weapon
Is this a thing? I don't think this is a thing.
>>
>>391303
>My sister is a teacher in Utah, and she carries a ruger lc9 on her thigh or waist.
Hot. Post pics
>>
>>392479
>gets tan
>hates himself
Redneck
>>
>Teacher gun program in place
>Teacher with gun has a really shitty day
>Kids fucking around
>Teacher snaps and plugs Tyrone for not shutting the fuck up
>How do we protect kids from teachers?
>GIVE KIDS GUNS
MURRICA
>>
Why not let kids being guns to school so they can defend themselves?
>>
>>392629
>Mass shootings epidemic is caused by mental health problems.
>Teaching is stressful, and Florida is one of the worst states to work in as a teacher.
>Florida is retarded in general
Thanks Florida Man.
>>
>>391236
Why there are no dedicated security guards in schools?
More employment and better safety.
>>
>>392629
>teacher might snap and kill someone with a gun
>but without the gun they're perfectly rational and should definitely be around children for several hours a day
If you don't trust someone with a gun, why would your trust them with your kids?
>>
>>392135
>>Whites committing mass shootings is an outlier.
>Well, that's just incorrect.
It's absolutely correct- mass shootings are an extremely small percentage of the # of shootings in the US. The vast majority are gang related, and majorily do not involve white people- or people over the age of 25.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States
>According to the US Department of Justice, African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with European Americans 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for African Americans was almost 8 times higher than European Americans, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of European Americans victims killed by European Americans, and 93% of African Americans victims were killed by African Americans.
>Blacks account for the majority of gun homicide victims/arestees in the US while whites account for the vast majority of non-gun homicide victims/arrestees, of the gun murder victims in the United States between 2007-2016, ***57% were black***, ***40.6% white (including Hispanic)***, 1.35% Asian, 0.98% unknown race and 0.48% Native American.
>From 1980 to 2008, nearly a quarter of the victims (24 percent) of gang-related homicides were juveniles (under age 18).
>https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/homicides-fall-to-lowest-rate-in-four-decades-133967273.html
>https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

The problem with this information is that it's unfortunately used as a "being white is the solution to crime" bludgeon, which is a symptom of an overall larger issue of just not being able to have an honest conversation about violent crime in the US- even with it still being at an all time low and dropping.
>>
>>391246
144 hours is more than enough experience to not accidentally fire your gun, you sound like you should have your gun rights monitored
>>
>>391246
>In theory this sounds great but in practice most cops are lazy fucks and will probably ND into their patrol beat or get their gun stolen.
FTFY.
>>
>>391252
Typical 4chan poster, assuming the worst will transpire although there's no evidence to back it up
>>
>>392630
Why were you allowed out of your cage?
>>
>>392671
In florida, it is because the state is so shit they have no other options. You can start teaching if you have any 4 year degree, and a few years of any work experience. They will let you start teaching kids with no teaching experience, and train you on the job. You must finish all trainings within 3 years to keep the position.
>>
>>392650
There's over 150.000 schools in the US, to put constantly trained personnel in every one if them would be a massive undertaking, and most of the schools wouldn't afford it. Doesn't even get to the fact that several of the schools that had shootings had security on staff and on school grounds while they were occurring.
>>
>>392533
Holsters have different levels of retention where users have to perform increasingly non-obvious and personal space intruding contortions to draw their guns.
>>
>>391351
lmao
>>
How long before first teacher kills student I say 9 months
>>
>>392750
>teachers should be screened for mental health before being allowed to teach

Now THIS I can stand behind.
>>
>>392694
I graduated last year, and I know for certain that every school has at least 1 traine resource officer on campus at all times. I went to the biggest high school in my county (almost 3000 students) and we had 6-8 officers on campus at all times.
>>
>>392684
Yeah that doesn't address my point, thanks.
>>
>>392535
Can't. The "progressives" don't like images posted on their version of /pol/
>>
>>391237
These people are murderers. Anyone actively fighting to stop teachers from being armed is a fucking accomplice in any school shooting. These people are disgusting.
How can you trust these people to teach your children and say you don't trust them to be armed? How can you justify leaving your children defenseless all for your ridiculous notion that guns kill people when 99.9% of guns don't?
School shooters kill people, and teachers with guns could protect them.
>>
>Student shot dead by their teacher
Wew
>>
>>392964
>How can you trust these people to teach your children and say you don't trust them to be armed?


Who says people actually trust teachers to teach children?
>>
>>392997

Nobody. Teachers are glorified baby sitters, but the point stands that if a teacher can't put a stop to a shooting, then they legit have no purpose.
>>
>>393025
>but the point stands that if a teacher can't put a stop to a shooting, then they legit have no purpose.
This sentence makes no sense. If a person in an occupation isn't able to complete a task that has absolutely nothing to do with their occupation then they have no purpose? Has it occurred to you that the public school system and society as a whole has absolutely failed if our only viable option is giving a 22 year old english major a gun and tell them its now their job to potentially murder one of their students?
>>
>>393025
I don’t think teachers signed up for this shit. Guys like you are putting the burden on teachers to solve a problem they had no hand in. They are a bandage solution to the leaking gun shot wound that America is suffering from. And I don’t think it’ll work, in the sense that more gas doesn’t put out a fire, and more guns doesn’t solve a gun problem.
>>
>>393108
>I don’t think teachers signed up for this shit.
They actually do have to sign up for this shit.
>>
>>393108
Well now that that is law now I guess. But teachers around the world, they’re only there to teach, not double tap school shooters-to-be. Who shall they kill? What if they were mistaken? What if they turn rogue? What if they shoot the wrong kid? And do you really want more guns at all in a building full of children? Friend or foe, I didn’t go there to get capped. And I don’t think teachers and schoolchildren wish for that too.
>>
>>391236
Feels good to be an American. Now if the school shooters don't fill you full of lead, the teachers will.
>>
>>397445
https://fsmedia.imgix.net/af/37/66/44/865b/421e/9e29/dc9c07cdb0ba/concealed-carry-in-k-12-schoolspng.png?auto=format%2Ccompress&dpr=2&w=650
This practice has been around for awhile, in a number of states. And if a teacher wanted to shoot a student, they would do it regardless of the law, because criminals don't care about the law.
>>
Please someone, eradicate this piece of shit of a country from Earth......
>>
>>397455
No one's a criminal until they commit a crime
>>
USA is the next South Africa
>>
>>397455
>criminals don't care about the law.
This is absolutely retarded logic. If its against the law to do something it forces criminals to take more and more steps to prevent being arrested which, in turn, increases the chances that they are caught. Criminals care if they get caught, anon. That's what laws are for. You're a moron.
>>
>>397475
>Criminals care if they get caught, anon
Your fantasy of a homicidal teacher would not be caught because nobody would notice the concealed weapon. And this unlikely scenario does not justify disarming teachers.
>>
You're retarded if you're sending your children to public school in the first place. Either homeschool or private school then. No reason to let your children suffer in a culture war of liberal propaganda with barely literate violent niggers and diseased anchor babies
>>
>>397475
>If its against the law to do something it forces criminals to take more and more steps to prevent being arrested
I, too, predict an epidemic of teachers sneaking firearms into schools to shoot their students without anyone finding out whodunnit.
>>
>>397481

>Your fantasy of a homicidal teacher would not be caught because nobody would notice the concealed weapon.
Your speculation about individual crimes is useless. Laws help prevent crime. This is a fact. Forcing criminals to take extra steps to not get caught is a deterrent and a major contributor to the reason so many of them get caught.

>And this unlikely scenario does not justify disarming teachers.
Teachers should be disarmed because they have no business being the ones who fix the issue of violence in America. More school aged children die from gun violence in this country than active duty police and global military personnel, anon, and the fact that we're actively avoiding addressing this issue by putting guns in teachers hands and telling chronically underpaid, twenty-something English majors that its now their job to possibly kill their students is pathetic and morally repugnant.
>>
>>397482
>Blatant trolling and racism is not permitted.
You should read the rules of the board before posting, anon.
>>
>>397484
What a shitty strawman. I said nothing of the sort. The only thing I took issue with was the retarded string of logic that dictated there's no use in making things illegal because "criminals don't care about the law". That isn't logical or accurate. They absolutely do care about the law, which is why they often take such steps to avoid getting caught. The fact that people are going to break the law anyways is not a logical justification for letting it happen or making it easier to do so.
>>
>>397488
>and the fact that we're actively avoiding addressing this issue by putting guns in teachers hands
138 children have been killed in school shootings since 2012
in that same time period, 500+ children were killed by bathtubs

while every death is very bad, they are a statistical irrelevancy

>>397491
so how does your observation bear in any way on the discussion of whether teachers should be legally permitted to carry firearms
>>
>>397493
>138 children have been killed in school shootings since 2012
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/21/gun-deaths-school-age-children-study/3231754002/

Children dying from being shot whether at school or not is not statistically irrelevant. If we're arming teacher then who else do we start arming, bus drivers? After school programs? Do we start having armed guards at middle school football and basketball games? My point is that gun violence is a societal issue and that handing teachers guns is a stop-gap, not a solution. That being said, the optics behind turning school teachers into armed guards are horrendous. There will never be a pleasant way to present to the public the possibility that their child's teacher may also be their executioner.


>so how does your observation bear in any way on the discussion of whether teachers should be legally permitted to carry firearms
The concept that we should not bother making things illegal because "criminals don't care about crimes" is illogical. The anon I was speaking to used an illogical concept to retort an argument about teacher carrying guns and I highlighted the illogical nature of it.
>>
>>397488
>Teachers should be disarmed because they have no business being the ones who fix the issue of violence in America
You don't get to tell someone that defending themselves is not their business
>More school aged children die from gun violence in this country than active duty police and global military personnel,
>not qualifying that with the fact that accidents make up the largest share.
that's dishonest
>>
School shooters are mentally ill people with guns.
A- Remove guns from equation
B- Treat those mentally ill kids
C- Let the problem evolve
Pick one US. Choose wisely.
>>
>>397498
>You don't get to tell someone that defending themselves is not their business
The public absolutely does get to tell someone that defending themselves is not their business when they are solely responsible for the safety, education and well-being of their children. These are teachers, not police officers. You believing that you have the right to carry a gu nwherever and whenever you want does not trump the responsibility you accept as an educator nor the collective well-being of the children you serve. Don't distract from the point I made by appealing to this silly outrage. My point was that teachers carrying gun will only result in more deaths and do nothing to address the society that seems intent on creating these violent children to begin with.

>that's dishonest
And you don't know how to read. The study concluded that accidents only accounted for 5% of the deaths. I'm not sure what universe you live in where 5% is considered "the largest share".
>>
>>397503
>My point was that teachers carrying gun will only result in more deaths
and your evidence for this point was what, exactly?
>>
>>397496
>A societal issue
I agree, but I don't think that acknowledging this fact is likely to produce any system-wide change. Dealing with the problems that cause these shootings means dealing with problems that politicians and the moneyed and landed elites have been kicking down the road since time immemorial. You'd have to tackle issues like homelessness, unequal distribution of wealth, poverty, drugs, all sorts of societal double-standards and hypocrisy, and generally, tackle the idea that life is unfair. People aren't going to stop feeling angry and frustrated until life is fair, and I don't see anyone, EVER, trying to even make the claim that life ever could, should, or will be. Even the most progressive world leader will still use "Life is unfair" as an excuse rather than a call to action.
>>
>>397503
>The study?
>>
>>397504
What you're doing at this point is sea-lioning. You're jumping from point to point, continually asking further questions in attempt to distract from the points we first began talking about. I'm not answering any more questions until you go back and address the points that you're attempting to skip over. Firstly, you were incorrect about the percentage of accidental gun deaths. My assertion was that the problem of children dying by gun is too large to consider arming teachers a feasible issue. Again, you were incorrect in stating that the majority of them were accidental. Address that. Secondly, you said that I don't get to tell someone that defending themselves is not their business and I specifically rebutted with the reasons why I and the public absolutely do. Address that.
>>
>>397512
>My assertion was that the problem of children dying by gun is too large to consider arming teachers a feasible issue.
this legislation was not aimed at fixing the problem of all gun violence everywhere for all time. it was aimed at the issue of school shootings in particular.
>>
>>397512
also i'm not even >>397498. if you aren't going to respond to posts that don't fit your criteria either leave the debate or simply don't fucking respond to them instead of acting like some sort of fucking martyr about it.
>>
>>397515
>also i'm not even >>397498
Ok, then stop responding as if you are or do what every other person with a functioning brainstem on this board does and clearly state that you are not the person I was initially engaged with.

>if you aren't going to respond to posts that don't fit your criteria either leave the debate or simply don't fucking respond to them instead of acting like some sort of fucking martyr about it.
Someone brings up a point, I list out the reasons this point is either factually incorrect and illogical and then you simply breeze onto a completely different point as if the things just being discussed didn't even happen. That isn't how debate works. If you can't stay on topic then go find a different thread. If you can't attack my points without personally attacking me then you have no business pretending like we're having an adult conversation.
>>
>>397518
>every other person with a functioning brainstem on this board does
i don't feel the need to qualify who i am in every post i make, because i respond to the contents of posts instead of throwing shitfits and issuing ultimatums based on the identity of posters i believe i am talking to.

>Someone brings up a point, I list out the reasons this point is either factually incorrect and illogical
and in doing so, you relied on a point that you did not provide support for, and i asked you to provide that support. i couldn't give a less of shit about what other people might be arguing with you about at the time.

>If you can't attack my points without personally attacking me
you're a complete fucking riot. i did nothing in this entire thread but discuss points until YOU introduced poster identity to this thread.
>>
I'm not opposed to it as such. It's good as a deterrent, and in the event of an actual shooting it could potentially save lives. That said as someone who works in a school I can't help but imagine how things would go if I had a gun and one of my students was enacting a shooting. I've worked with a lot of my kids for multiple years, I know all of them fairly well and even the ones with anger issues or developmental problems or whatever are ones I care about a lot.

You're asking a teacher to make an emergency call about children they love and that they care about only a little less than the parents of those children do. It's not a position I would ever want to be in, and if I were ever forced to be in that position I'm not sure I would or could shoot. And that's not to mention the blowback from parents if their child does attempt a school shooting and is shot. I also hope it wouldn't lead to teachers actively seeking out the shooter in one of these scenarios, as their class is in need of them staying with them. Ideally I'd probably have an armed guard or something at every school in addition or instead.
>>
>>397504
>>397503
>>397496
>>397491
If it makes you feel any better, School shootings are at a multi decade low. Despite The fact that scary AR-47 guns are now extremely commonplace and affordable. And in spite of or because of the fact that more teacher are armed than ever.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality
And a large number (possibly two thirds) of reported school shootings did not even happen
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
>>
>>397523
>And that's not to mention the blowback from parents if their child does attempt a school shooting and is shot.
those were shitty parents and you shouldn't give a shit what they think. if they didn't want their kid to be shot they shouldn't have raised a murderer.

>Ideally I'd probably have an armed guard or something at every school in addition or instead.
one of the only reasons this law exists (among many) is that the armed guard at parkland hid behind his car the whole time instead of doing anything about it.
>>
>>397522
>i don't feel the need to qualify who i am in every post i make
Then stop expecting any of my responses to make any sense, you moron. I'm done speaking with you.
>>
>>397529
>Then stop expecting any of my responses to make any sense.
maybe if you responded to the things that people actually said, you wouldn't have this problem. the average 4chan poster successfully navigates discussions containing multiple people without breaking down into a pile of sad tears like you.

>I'm done speaking with you.
once again, a liberal, faced with complete logical implosion of his position, runs away from the debate at high speeds so as to avoid ever having think about his abject defeat ever again.

typical.
>>
>>397470
That's racist
>>
>>397523
>And that's not to mention the blowback from parents if their child does attempt a school shooting and is shot.
Think about what you just said Anon....
>>
>>397537
I know what I said. I just got yelled at two days running by a parent for not allowing her son - who has life threatening allergies - to eat (two different) foods that might be contaminated with allergens without her express permission as per policies designed to protect her son's life as well as our program from prosecution. I've known parents that, when their children attacked other kids with no provocation, insisted they were defending themselves. We have a mother who insists her son is being bullied and thinks he might be depressed, but in reality he instigates fights with the other children I work with and has many friends, none of whom are any worse than he is and none of which treat him poorly.

Not every parent is going to understand when their child does something wrong, not every parent is going to follow policies or accept them, and not every parent cooperates with staff. And then you're expecting those parents to be rational and calm following their child dying at the hands of a teacher? Because I don't buy that would go over smoothly at all. It'd be both a PR and legal nightmare for the school, most likely even if the shooting was well under way. We're meant to and trained to protect EVERY child we work with, not protect some at the cost of others. Maybe that's not realistically an option sometimes, but that's why I suggested armed guards. Because our role as teachers does complicate matters.
>>
>>391236
Good, I hope their aim is true. Don't like it? Then hire more cops and give them MORE power not less.
>>
>>391600
based
>>
>>391600
>white males are subject to less scrutiny and suspicion by law enforcement
False.
>>
>>397578
addendum: though I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you said.
>>
>>391600
>white males are shot more often per encounter with law enforcement
FIFY
>>
>>397578
>False
It is, unfortunately, true. Statistically, black people receive more jail time and are imprisoned more frequently for identical crimes than white people. A 2013 study conducted by the feds found that federal prosecutors are more likely to charge black people than similarly situated white people with offenses that carry higher mandatory minimum sentences. In Massachusetts, a 2004 review of sentencing data showed that black and Latino people accounted for 80 percent of drug-free zone convictions, even though 45 percent of those arrested statewide for drug offenses were white. In 2011, Blacks were incarcerated at a dramatically higher rate than Whites (5–7 times) and accounted for almost half of all prisoners incarcerated with a sentence of more than one year for a drug-related offense even though studies have shown that blacks and whites use illegal drugs at almost identical rates. Take yourself out of the situation for a moment and just research it. I know that your immediate reaction is to take offense to any statement such as this that makes you feel like people are being critical of you but the statement is not meant to "beat up" on white people, anon. Its just a statistically sound observation about our criminal justice system.

>>397580
"Of the people killed by police in 2014 and 2015, 51 percent were white, 28.1 percent were black, 19.3 percent were Latino, and 1.7 percent were Asian. The remainder came from other ethnic backgrounds.

Most people killed by police were white. In 2014 and 2015, white people made up about 62 percent of the U.S. population and are underrepresented in this group. Meanwhile, blacks made up 17.9 percent of the country and are dramatically overrepresented. In other words, African Americans are disproportionately more likely to be killed by police than white people. Latinos also are over-represented in data on killings by police, making up 17.6 percent of the population but 19.3 percent of these deaths."
>>
U.S. Marine here. As someone who has had the unfortunate circumstance of taking someone's life from them, I can tell you that those teachers are not mentally ready for all of the issues that happen after you have no choice. That teacher will never teach again and will on edge every min nite everyday afterwards. This is not a good thing. Taking a life takes a toll you don't forget.
>>
>>391600
>it's everything EXCEPT the flood of guns!
>that magically is nowhere else as well!
>>
>>397593
Also it doesn't matter if you are defending yourself, a kid is a kid and has plenty of time in their life to fix issues going on. Everything shitty seeps into your brain and makes the guilt compound on itself. Nobody should die over differences in philosophy.
>>
>>397593
>I can tell you that those teachers are not mentally ready for all of the issues that happen after you have no choice. That teacher will never teach again and will on edge every min nite everyday afterwards. This is not a good thing. Taking a life takes a toll you don't forget.
You're right, dying is clearly the much better option
>>
>>397593
If a US Marine was a vegan, which do you think would come up in a conversation first? It would have to be a fucken paper thin, neck-and-neck race wouldn't it?
>>
>>397593
>That teacher will never teach again and will on edge every min nite everyday afterwards
They're going to do a 144 hour course teaching them to assess a situation, then draw-aim-fire and hit. Killing someone has to be a reflex because if any decent person thought about it they'd die first. Reflexes are how you beat the indecent person because they have the initiative. Killing someone doesn't ruin your life, that omg PTSD meme doesn't fly anymore Mr Thank Me For My Service Poster.
>>
>>397525
>over a thousand mass shootings in under a thousand days
>let me shopw you a graph about only one type of shooting and let's talk about the definition of mass shooting
fuck off
>>
>>397549
Your plan for the future is ugly and weird, bootlicker.
>>
>>397599
We're 170 posts in friend also vegans are pussys. Maybe if you had something in your life worth feeling pride for you might understand.

>>397600
So your saying that a144 hour class is enough time to prepare someone who took an oath to teach and protect children, that it's all fine and dandy to kill a kid even in self defense? You should open a therapists office, since you can cure PTSD in that short amount of time.

>>397598
Why isn't hiring more security an option? Oh yeah that's right, the US doesn't give any money to it's public school system and they can't afford to. Also a teacher shouldn't be a vigilante judge and jury. We should be past that. Also. It's fucking Florida.
>>
>>397604
>Maybe if you had something in your life worth feeling pride for you might understand.
So that's all you're proud of. Wow. You get lamer every single time you post.
>>
>>392486
>The age limit thing is probably unconstitutional, either you're an adult or your not.
Tell that to drinking laws.
>>
>>397619
>Tell that to drinking laws
> thinks that drinking is a constitutionally protected law
>>
>>397601
If you are going to discuss mass shootings, it is important to have a consensus on definition. As it stands, multiple agencies use different definitions, so being aware of how they differ is critical to interpret their data. Please provide the source and definition used for your "over 1000 mass shootings in under 1000 days" statistic, because it doesn't come up on Google
>>
>>397586
>African Americans are disproportionately more likely to be killed by police than white people
>Doesn't understand what per encounter means.
A white pulled over is more likely to be killed than a black.
>>
>>397455
Criminal isn't some job people have where they sit around all day trying to find ways to kill kids or whatever. The vast majority of violent crimes happen in the moment, beginning and ending in a matter of minutes. If those people don't have access to weapons, 99.99% of the time they just won't use any, not dedicate their life to buying black market guns to murder people.
>>
20 states allow teachers and other school staff members to carry guns under a variety of rules on school property
Outside of suicides or gang violence in the wee hours of the morning, there has yet to be a single case of someone being wounded or killed from a shooting when armed teachers are around.
There haven't been any serious accidents. No student has ever got hold of his or her teacher’s gun. And the one accidental firearms discharge by a teacher(she shot the toilet she was sitting on) occurred outside of school hours. The teacher had only very minor injuries.
>>
if everyone was allowed to bring a gun to school, there'd be no school shootings
>>
>>397768
Wayne LaPierre, is that you?
>>
>>397663
Read the study again you illiterate twat. It clearly states that African Americans were over-represented in the data and Whites were underrepresented based on their population.
>>
>>391252
> take gun

What is the shooter gonna duel wield it or something? Or is he just gonna take it to over-encumber himself and leave himself open for another teacher to take a shot at the shooter?
>>
>>398165
What if it's a kid who doesn't even have a gun but one day decides they're gonna jump the teacher when their back is turned and then steal the gun?
>>
>>398170
Well, they'd have to be completely alone with the teacher or other students would presumably jump in, which de-escalates the situation from a typical school shooting. I suppose it could happen at lunch, but, they'd have to know where the gun was located and that doesn't seem like the type of thing a teacher would tell their students. Also, if they don't own a gun I doubt they'd be proficient with it.
>>
How the fuck do they think this is a good idea

Like seriusly im a pro-gun republican and i think this is stupid
>>
>>398195
>Like seriusly im a pro-gun republican and i think this is stupid
We want your membership card back
>>
>>398170
>What if it's a kid who doesn't even have a gun but one day decides they're gonna jump the teacher when their back is turned and then steal the gun?
What ifs are poor arguments when over a dozen states have been allowing this for awhile now.
>>
>>398195
It is a good idea.

Seriously. Training faculty to handle and properly use guns is a lot more valuable against an armed gunman than hiding your students in the corner of a room or rushing at him with a pencil.
>>
>>398055
>Read the study again you illiterate twat. It clearly states that African Americans were over-represented in the data and Whites were underrepresented based on their population
you seem to not have a grasp as to what a per encounter basis is. I wouldn't think that I'd have to explain to a presumed adult why that doesn't contradict whites being "underrepresented based on their population"
You should try to study more, rather than calling me names.
>>
I like how people are talking about dealing with a guy with a gun, with another gun, instead of questioning the saturation of guns in American society at all, no less in schools. Like fighting fire not with a water hose, or with fire even, but a napalm sprayer. No matter how many NRA talking points are used, only Americans lead the world in mass shootings. Coincidentally America has a pro gun culture and pro gun laws. They also collectively own about half of all guns on the world. Big think.
>>
>>398342
>I like how people are talking about dealing with a guy with a gun, with another gun,
you mean like how we guard banks?
>instead of questioning the saturation of guns in American society
I like how everyone wants to talk about guns in America, instead of asking why back in the 50s and 60s students would bring their guns to school and store them in their locker so they could go hunting afterwards? Why did schools have shooting teams and ranges built in to them? What changed since then? We should find out what made this possible. Because the only way Americans are going to quit buying firearms is if lasers replace them
>>
>>397604
>US doesn't give any money to it's public school system
Imagine being this uninformed.
https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/International%20Education%20Spending%20Data_Image_0.png
>>
>>398362
I bet he also thinks that Americans have an increasingly pathetic median IQ because they don't study hard enough.....
>>
>>392533
In short, yes, it's a thing.
>>
>>398342
>>398358
>you mean like how we guard banks?
Didn’t know schools held gold bullion

>instead of asking why back in the 50s and 60s students would bring their guns to school and store them in their locker so they could go hunting afterwards? Why did schools have shooting teams and ranges built in to them? What changed since then?

Nothing changed. Only the targets. Instead of clay pigeons it’s people. Instead of a shooting range it’s a school. The hunted are not squirrels, they are sixth graders. It’s a cultural change In thinking of a gun not as a tool, but as a weapon. But how do you change a cultural idea so easily in a world where violence and glory matters and nothing else? You can however restrict the tools they use to wage this violence and glory - let the idea erase itself in the meantime. But I don’t see Americans jumping at it.

>We should find out what made this possible. Because the only way Americans are going to quit buying firearms is if lasers replace them

Or if the guns they buy end up wiping themselves out. Can’t buy guns if gun violence claims you.
>>
>>398409
>Didn’t know schools held gold bullion
No they hold something worth more.
>Nothing changed
retard tier reply
>Or if the guns they buy end up wiping themselves out. Can’t buy guns if gun violence claims you
Republicans have a higher birthrate and Republican areas have a lower murder rate
>>
>>398409
>>398418
>No they hold something worth more
What is the value of this worth? Priceless sure, but why do people seek a price-less thing? What incentive do they get for shooting up a school?

>retard tier reply
Read the rest of my post through.

>Republicans have a higher birthrate and Republican areas have a lower murder rate
I never mentioned Republicans at all. What are you alluding to? And I don’t think 9mm bullets or 5.56 slugs care for political factions. Death claims all. And America sure is facilitating it.
>>
>>398418
>Republican areas have a lower murder rate

Incorrect.

>http://editions.lib.umn.edu/smartpolitics/2009/09/16/red-states-have-higher-crime-r/

>A Smart Politics analysis of the recently released 2008 Uniform Crime Reports finds that red states across the nation have both higher violent and property crime rates than blue states, across several measures of partisanship.

>retard tier reply
Agreed. Our technological age has resulted in a complete deterioration of interpersonal relationships, healthy social bonding and sense of community. People aren't connected to each other anymore. Building an extremist mind set is as easy as logging onto your computer and saturating yourself in it. Social dysfunction is as prevalent as it has ever been and the bottom has completely fallen out of the support structure for people.
>>
>>398440
>Incorrect
Murder and homicide are not listed as a separate figure. Bullshit and you knew that while posting.
>>
>>398464
>Murder and homicide are not listed as a separate figure.
Violent crime is violent crime, anon. The data clearly shows that murder, rape and aggravated assault are all higher in red states than they are in blue states. Cope more, nerd.
>>
>>398475
>Violent crime is violent crime,
I specified murder. You are moving goalposts you didn't even put in place.
>>
>>398478
>I specified murder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicide_rate

The top 10 states with the highest homicide rates are all majority republican. Louisiana has the highest murder rate followed by Missouri, Nevada, Maryland, Arkansas, Alabama and Mississippi; all red states. So, again, you're completely and 100% incorrect. Any other coping strategies you want to whip out?
>>
>>398483
>The top 10 states
Break it down by county anon>>398418 said area
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/blue-states-high-murder-rate.gif
>>
>>398483
I specified murder, and you gave me homicide. Not only that, but your definition of a Republican state is weak. And I hate to say this, but the deep south rate isn't among what you'd call traditional Republican voters
http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html
>>
>>398496
We get it, you think conservatives are all peaceful, law-abiding people and liberals are the violent murderers. Unfortunately the data doesn't support that. Even the studies themselves indicate that predicting violent crime is incredibly more nuanced than simply partisan affiliation. Cope more.
>>
>>398506
copecopecopecopecope
>>
>>398510
Goalpostsgoalpostsgoalposts
>>
>>398508
>Even the studies themselves indicate that predicting violent crime is incredibly more nuanced than simply partisan affiliation.
That was never the contention. See>>398409
>>
>>391236
How long until some mentally unstable, tiered-of-student's-shit substitute teacher starts pointing guns? The idea of everyone owning guns sounds great in theory but in real life people are really fucking stupid act on impulses.
>>
>>398523
>hold my beer for one sec
>>
>>398523
>How long until some mentally unstable, tiered-of-student's-shit substitute teacher starts pointing guns? The idea of everyone owning guns sounds great in theory but in real life people are really fucking stupid act on impulses.
It could happen tomorrow, it could happen in a century. I remember when my state first adopted concealed carry without a license. Everyone was predicting a gunfight on every street. Instead the murder rate fell, faster than the national average. Despite having a cartel war on the border.
>>
>>391236
>finger on the trigger
>>
>>398506
>I specified murder, and you gave me homicide.
Mince words if you like. Violent crime is higher in these areas. Aggravated assault, rape and homicide is higher in these areas. These areas are more violent. We all knew what your assertion was; that liberals are more violent than conservatives and, again, you were proven wrong. If you want to get into some debate about the legal and/or moral differences between the legal definition of homicide and murder then go have it with someone else. Your coping is just getting pathetic at this point.

>Not only that, but your definition of a Republican state is weak.
My definition is the same definition as everybody else's. A U.S state that predominantly votes and supports the Republican part. Cope harder.

>And I hate to say this, but the deep south rate isn't among what you'd call traditional Republican voters
That isn't what you said. You didn't say "certain kinds of republican voters". You said red states. These states are red states. Don't move the goalposts. You were wrong. The thing you said was false. You're so desperate to avoid being wrong now you're trying to scoot your goalposts and claim you were actually talking about a completely different kind of republican than I was. You're an incredible moron.
>>
>>398546
To be fair, he did specifically mention Republican "areas," whatever the hell those are, and you were the one to bring up states.
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>>398546
>Mince words
Obviously doesn't know the difference between homicide and murder.
>you have only offered evidence of that on the state level. You listed Nevada as a Republican state, which was stupid. But you ignore the fact that Nevada's crime occurs almost exclusively around the Democrat strongholds in and around Las Vegas.
>We all knew what your assertion was; that liberals are more violent than conservatives
No the assertion was that you are less likely to be murdered in a Republican areas than a Democrat area. Murderers probably don't even bother registering to vote.
>My definition is the same definition as everybody else's.
>no it isn't.
Louisiana:Democrat governor.
Nevada:Voted for Hillary
Maryland:second Republican Governor of Maryland in history to have won re-election and the first to have done so since 1954
Not exactly the blood red states you want them to be.
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>>398546
>That isn't what you said. You didn't say "certain kinds of republican voters".
And those people aren't Republican voters at all look at that link again if you still don't understand why violent crime is so high in the south.
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>>398418
>Republicans have a higher birthrate and Republican areas have a lower murder rate

I’d like to see some data supporting this. A pet theory of mine is that populations density is tied to higher violence rates, regardless of political affiliation or climate. The skinny is this: the more packed in you are with another, the more social interactions you go through with one another - and not all will be positive in nature. Like that “Rat City” experiment. All the rats devolved into degeneracy and infighting merely by sharing space with hundreds others. On the flip side, it’s hard to be violent to others when you live in bumfuck nowhere and your nearest neighbor is 50 miles away. Did your statistics account for population density, if at all?

Denser cities also tend to vote Democrat because of the often socialist policies associated with their platform - which can benefit a large, dense, localized population at once. Hard to implement social programs when everyone is spread thin in rural lands and there’s less people to benefit - despite them paying for it. Still, correlation does not mean causation: the third factor of population density can be to blame for the violence rates in big cities.
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>>398520
I think you misunderstand my post. I was claiming that falling victim to violence, no less gun violence, is a bipartisan issue. Red or blue, doesn’t matter. You’re getting double tapped by some edge lord in the end.

Committing a violent crime is a whole new matter, though I doubt political party matters here too. Red or blue, you can still pick up a gun and go “human hunting”. But there is a marked difference in politics when it comes to regulating these guns, split between party lines. Perhaps therein lies the connection.
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>>398569
>I’d like to see some data supporting this.
Births
https://m.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Republicans-fertile-future-Through-the-past-2488626.php
Areas with lower murder rate.
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/blue-states-high-murder-rate.gif
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>>391236
They need to pass a bill allowing schools to enforce a "Mandatory Body Weight" on the teachers as well as the students. If say the subject is over that weight requirement, and not mostly muscles like me, then they'll be transferred to an "IDGF Alternative School."
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>>398574
Yeah, I’ve seen that gif. I need a source for that gif, or better yet, the data compiled to create it.

The other article was interesting, as it suggested that “Over the past three decades, conservatives have been procreating more than liberals -- continuing to seed the future with their genes by filling bassinets coast to coast with tiny Future Republicans of America.”

Coincidentally, this article here
https://www.edge.org/response-detail/23788
Says that conservatives tend to have more babies on part of their religion and level of education, compared to liberals who have less children - again, based on their policies and level of education.

The decrease of births, on a fundamental level, isn’t a bad thing; most highly developed countries have a diamond shaped or inverse pyramidal population pyramid suggesting longer lived adults and less children - a cause of higher average IQ and technological progress (think better healthcare and delayed babymaking). It sounds like the Republicans are trying to succeed through sheer future voting numbers alone ad suggesting the childless libs will get drowned out by the reds instead.
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>>398545
Go back to /k/
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>>398619
/k/ incessant virtue signaling over "muh trigger discipline" is hilarious. they're all so desperate to compete for goodboy points, that the cucks can't ever shut up about the trigger discipline meme, its been going on for over a decade now and still running at full steam. megalolz
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>>398598
what's the rate of conversion from liberal to conservative vs conservative to liberal?

as I see it a significant percentage of those born to conservative parents aren't going to remain conservative, rather they'll become liberal.
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>>398648
I imagine it goes in waves. We had a major shift towards conservatism during Reagan for example. Can't really say for sure about any other as I haven't looked too much into it, but I suspect a popular candidate can do wonders for converting new, young voters. Who knows, a few decades ago Trump could have been the next Reagan with regards to converting people if he didn't have round the clock news coverage telling everyone about all the shitty things he has done.
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>>398636
lmao /k/ is too sissy to reply to >>>/k/41494865
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>>398737
why would you be surprised that nobody participates in the retarded raid threads you want them to
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>>398738
ur butthurt lol
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>>398737
This is mental illness on display
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>>398636
>pushing basic safety for potentially dangerous mechanical devices and tools is virtue signalling
Go ahead, keep your finger on the trigger. Make sure when you ND it's right into your femoral artery. Oh, and get it on camera, we could use some fresh webm fodder for fucktards receiving their very own Darwin Award.
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>>398648
>as I see it a significant percentage of those born to conservative parents aren't going to remain conservative, rather they'll become liberal.
The SFGate article offers this:

“But wait, you may say: the attitudes of the parents don't determine what ideology or political party their offspring will adopt as their own. Yet they usually do.

Political scientists have long found that 4 out of 5 people with a party preference grow up to vote the way their parents voted. In fact, while many people experience a temporary rejection of their parents' politics in very early adulthood, virtually nothing is more predictive of your political ideology than that of your parents -- it's more of a determining factor than income, education or any other societal yardstick.”

Although it does sound a bit sketch to me. It doesn’t offer any sources towards it, although maybe they took this tidbit from the original source they used I write the article. Still, perhaps the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree - even in politics
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>>398770
Keep in mind that nearly everyone grows more conservative as they get older. And millenials seem to be transitioning faster than previous generations.

https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-millennials-politics-conservative-20160907-snap-story.html
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>>398758
LMAO@ur crazy grandiosity
whatta cuc/k/ smh
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>>398777
>And millenials seem to be transitioning faster than previous generations.

No. That wasn't there. The article said there are more conservatives in millennials now, not that they grow more conservative faster.

>Keep in mind that nearly everyone grows more conservative as they get older

[citation needed]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1041104?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://blogs.uni-due.de/wissenschaft-politik/2018/01/22/as-we-age-we-do-not-grow-politically-more-conservative-age-differences-in-political-preferences-are-almost-exclusively-due-to-the-ways-different-cohorts-grew-up/
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>>398368
It's probably from all the poisoning they do to themselves due to free market no regulations
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>>398885
>On average, Americans identify as more politically liberal at age 18 and become increasingly conservative between their 20s and 60s.
Said that right in the article
>>
Based entertainment tbh. Cannot wait for the first teacher who uses it to off a spoiled brat.

Who could have seen that coming: every sane person in the universe.
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>>399010
I think he meant that the article doesn’t speak about how *fast* they become conservative. That quote only offers a age threshold when they do become conservative.



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