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Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) delivered a rebuttal to President Donald Trump’s State of the Union address on Tuesday with a 30-minute speech that meticulously picked apart what Trump got wrong and the things he felt the president had failed to mention.

“I hate to say this, but not everything Donald Trump said tonight was true or accurate,” Sanders said at the top of his speech after offering his congratulations to Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams, who delivered the Democratic rebuttal.

In his response, Sanders noted that Trump did not mention climate change, Medicare, voter suppression or Social Security ― issues that the senator said all Americans, not just Trump’s “billionaire friends,” face.

Sanders criticized the president for boasting about the booming economy, noting that only the wealthy were benefiting from the administration’s economic policies and tax cuts.

“For many of President Trump’s billionaire friends, the truth is, they have never, ever had it so good,” he said. “But for the middle class and the working families of our country, the truth is that the economy is not so great.”

Sanders pointed out that Trump did not mention in detail the challenges facing “ordinary Americans,” including health care costs, low wages and unaffordable rent.

“Trump said tonight, ‘We are born free, and we will stay free.’ Well, I say to President Trump: People are not truly free when they can’t afford to go to the doctor when they are sick. They are not truly free when they cannot afford to buy the prescription drugs they so desperately need. People are not truly free when they are exhausted because they are working longer and longer hours for lower wages.

“People are not truly free when they cannot afford a decent place in which to live. People certainly are not free when they cannot afford to feed their families.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-trump-sotu-fact-check_us_5c5a148fe4b0871047588416
>>
Sanders used his speech as a chance to challenge Trump’s leadership.

“When you’re president, you bring our people together,” he said. “But in an unprecedented way, that is not what this president is doing. In fact, he is trying to divide us up; he is trying to have one group turn against another group. And that is certainly not what this country is supposed to be about.”

Video: https://youtu.be/Xc5fD_t1ObQ
>>
>>352362
Ironic, because Trump's speech was actually pretty unionist.

Of course, it's also the nicest has ever been in a public forum, so Bernie is speaking to the general rather than the specific case.

Meanwhile trumps base is seething that he didn't declare a state of emergency, spent 17 minutes our of 90 months wall, and got the spotlight stolen from him by a particularly sarcastic round of applause.
>>
>>352361
>People are not truly free when they are exhausted because they are working longer and longer hours for lower wages.
>“People are not truly free when they cannot afford a decent place in which to live. People certainly are not free when they cannot afford to feed their families.”

Can confirm
This sucks
T. Poorfag
>>
>>352373
Query, poorfag. If given a universal basic income would you still work for additional money?

Asking to win an argument.
>>
>>352372
>Ironic, because Trump's speech was actually pretty unionist.
Trump was neither pro-union nor for real unity given how he started with a disingenuous call for unity, and then spent the rest of the time making racists attacks and then saying the he'd burn the economy to the ground if the Democrats kept investigating his crimes.
>>
>>352361
>“People are not truly free when they cannot afford a decent place in which to live. People certainly are not free when they cannot afford to feed their families.”
The freedom from need is the greatest freedom of all.
>>
>>352374
I'd still work because I'm so used to working nearly all the time I'd probably kill myself

All (half) jokes aside yeah. I'm assuming I wouldn't actually get that money as a check and it'd go towards rent and other stuff like that? Or is it just money given to me no strings attached? Either way I'd still work because literally one of my biggest fears is having children born into poverty and debt like I was, and then potentially go away for school, get fucked and add more debt. I'd work for money to spend on luxuries and probably finally start investing if I'm no longer living check to check and skipping meals
>>
>>352374
>If given a universal basic income would you still work for additional money?
Theres a fascinating study coming in the next few years that you will want to look out for. The Oneida Indian Nation actually has a UBI system funded by their casino in Upstate NY. The kids becoming adults right now are the first generation that has lived their entire life with this "distribution" being a thing. Theyve had to change the rules almost annually for the last several years because this generation (between discount housing and other benefits) has been living off the UBI without working, so many of them that one of the rules that were implemented was a requirement to work. Older Oneidas were used to working anyways so they just kept on working
>>
And socialism fixes this how.
It would be nice if Congress agree for once and the Democrats could stop trying to undercut Trump.
>>
>>352379
A UBI would be an income designed based on cost of living in your area to meet minimum needs. You would have a roof over your head and you would not starve. That's about it.

Does that clarify things?
>>
>>352383
We already live in a socialist democracy. Just look at our military. You devote your life to the state and in return get a salary, food, healthcare, pension after retirement- all funded by public communal taxes. It's the most socialist institution in the country and it's absolutely worshipped by the loudest opponents of socialism in the country.
>>
>fact checking
>smirking kid in MAGA hat assaults wise native elder
Be Gone yellow caker!
>>
>>352386
Lel
>public roads
We socialist now
>>
>>352361
Le sigh.

I really don't understand why we have to go so far as UBI just for the people who work for a living to be able to buy the services and goods on offer.

Fix the market so that wages match inflation, or bring down the prices of the needed goods and services (In particular, the price of healthcare, the price of housing, and the interest rates on debt) so that people making the shit wages we're offered to work can fucking pay.

People are only going to keep feeling like the system has completely failed as long as it keeps completely failing. If the people who work 40 hour weeks plus overtime can't afford the rent or healthcare, then we have no choice but to tear it all down and try to find "Something that works".

It really wouldn't be so hard to just keep capitalism working though, and it isn't even that far of a bridge between where we are and where we'd need to be. If work actually provided a decent standard of life for the majority of people who work, it might seem like something people actually want to do instead of having to be forced by starvation or police action.
>>
>>352388
Congratulations, you've stumbled upon the open secret of modern conservative politics - the word 'socialism' has been overused to the point where it's losing all meaning.

It is known and accepted that the tenets of Marx and lenin (my phone attempted to autocorrect that to 'lemon' and I almost left it) don't work. They're pie-in-the-sky idealism used by authoritarians as political snake oil.

But republicans have applied the word to any sort of government aid or intervention upon pure unregulated capitalism, as if it was a binary switch. The inherently contradictory nature of this, demonstrated by how many different ways that government is present in the life of the average modern American (from paying for his public schooling to maintaining his roads to regulating his food and drink to be safe) is finally breaking down.

I hope conservatives find a new way to engage in political discourse because 'STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE' is starting to turn stale.
>>
>>352384
Ah so yeah I'd still work to have spending money outside of Bill's and for amenities. Would actually buy more things for once and invest.
>>
No refunds!
>>
>>352393
>imagine thinking people would read this stale pasta
>>
>>352401
You admit defeat then and Trump is fearmongering
>>
>>352361
So much for the "triggered" Sanders that Ivan the Retard recently tried to haphazardly post
>>
>>352361
>“I hate to say this, but not everything Donald Trump said tonight was true or accurate,” Sanders said at the top of his speech after offering his congratulations to Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams, who delivered the Democratic rebuttal.
>In his response, Sanders noted that Trump did not mention climate change, Medicare, voter suppression or Social Security ― issues that the senator said all Americans, not just Trump’s “billionaire friends,” face.
So he didn't talk about Bernie Sanders pet issues, and that means he's fact checked wrong?
>>
>>352478
Trump didn't talk about issues that matter to people and democracy while lying his ass off.
Because the Republicans are trying to actively murder people by destroying healthcare, it's still the number 1 issue.
>>
>>352484
Listen sweetie, you support killing delivered babies. So you can't really try to besmerch others.
>>
>>352494
https://thinkprogress.org/president-trump-promotes-a-notorious-abortion-lie-in-his-state-of-the-union-speech-f8f73420c444/

The Virginia bill modestly loosens restrictions after the second trimester, saying only one provider, not three, needs to approve third-trimester abortions in specific circumstances. The New York bill, alternatively, removes abortion from the state’s criminal code and codifies access in a new section of the Public Health Law.

“To defend the dignity of every person, I am asking Congress to pass legislation to prohibit the late-term abortion of children who can feel pain in the mother’s womb,” the president added.

His misleading statements are part of a pattern of recent misinformation about the bills: They were the subject of a false splice video of the Virginia’s bill sponsor, Del. Kathy Tran (D), that went viral last week. She’s since received racist, threatening messages. Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) was also asked about the bill in a radio interview and his confusing, inaccurate response only further emboldened conservatives; Northam said after a failed abortion, “the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.” His baffling explanation underscores a lot of lawmakers unfamiliarity with later abortions.

The bills codify abortion rights within their respective states, because the president appointed two Supreme Court justices who are likely to roll back federal abortion rights established in Roe. Roe protects the right to later abortions (or after fetal viability) in narrow circumstances, saying states may not prohibit abortions “necessary to preserve the life or health” of the pregnant person.
>>
>>352361
Being free does not entitle you to other people's money, you fucking old parasite.
>>
>>352362
>lambasts the rich
Muh division two seconds later. Lol ok. At least bernie actually voted against the BDS bill though
>>
>>352498
What do you mean false slice.
Ralph Northam talked about delivering a baby and then killing it.
>>
>>352548
>the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
How does that translate to deliver baby and killing it? Stop lying.
>>
>>352498
>well technically it's not quite baby murder it's just killing babies
hot take
>>
>>352551
Fetuses =/= babies
Stop being historical.
>>
>>352552
yes those born, crying, screaming, looking you in the eye fetuses
>>
Should the people of this country ever freely elect to live under socialism, the people currently in power will make a small exception to the supreme status "democracy" supposedly has here, and remove any socialist government by force. If they do it overseas, such as in Venezuela, they sure as hell will do the same at home. So much for "democracy".
>>
>>352476
He literally gave a speech to refute the SotU. Sounds pretty triggered to me
>>
>>352374
I know I would. Hell, i'd probably keep both my jobs and use that income to buy a car, maybe put a down payment on a house, look at starting a business..

You cover my basic needs, and I will likely be willing to work more and work harder because now im working towards a goal and not just barely scraping by.
>>
>People are not truly free when they are exhausted because they are working longer and longer hours for lower wages.
>“People are not truly free when they cannot afford a decent place in which to live. People certainly are not free when they cannot afford to feed their families.”

Except they are. Freedom and happiness are not mutually inclusive.
>>
>>352401
spoken like a true loser.
>>
>>352557
But the opposition party does this every year. Did you just fall off the stupid tree?
>>
>>352560
Freedom is an undefinable concept. How about that?
>>
>>352374
I would not. But I would use my spare time to better myself so that in future I can contribute more to society, the only thing I'm really interested in doing.
>>
>>352550
What would the discussion be about?
>>
>>352498
Hahahahanah. Keep talking plz
>>
>>352552
What's the difference between a fetus and a baby?
Is the vagina a magic canal that turns babies fetuses into human beings?
>>
>>352550
Decide what?
>>
>>352571
Same difference there is between a grain and a plant.
>>
>>352573
If you leave a grain on your desk, it will not grow into a plant.
If you leave sperm in testicles, it will not become a baby
If you leave a fetus in a womb, it will be born.
It is a human being, in time. It does not exist as a static moment, in the same way all human beings do not exist in a static moment. That's why it's not right to murder a human being who is asleep, because they can't feel pain, aren't capable of rational thought and so on, as in 8 hours they will wake up.
And in 9 months the fetus will be born.
>>
>>352574
Your analogy is flawed because seeds are already fertilized and thus they generally will grow if you put them into soil and leave them. Likewise, an egg fertilized by sperm will eventually grow if in the proper environment of the womb, but if you take it out then it won't grow.
>>
>>352575
You're the one who started by comparing a human life to a plant. Your analogy is flawed.
>>
>>352562
Then how does his speech refute the fact he was triggered?
>>
>>352576
Because a seed is not equal to a plant. Likewise, a fertilized egg is not equal to a baby
>>
>>352550
>the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”
Sure, that's the answer, but what is the question?
>Kathy tran made her case on lifting restrictions on third trimester abortions, as well as other other restrictions now in place.
She was pressed by republican delegates on whether or not her bill would permit an abortion while a woman is dilating, essentially dilating, ready to give birth. She said it would, at that stage of labour. Do you support her measure? And explain her answer.
So, what would the discussion be about?
>>
>>352580
It is
It is a human being, in time. It does not exist as a static moment, in the same way all human beings do not exist in a static moment. That's why it's not right to murder a human being who is asleep, because they can't feel pain, aren't capable of rational thought and so on, as in 8 hours they will wake up.
If you don't do anything, it will be born in 9 months. That is the default state. And by interrupting that process you are stopping what would have otherwise been a beautiful baby boy or girl.
It's not like sperm in testicles, which if you leave for 9 months, nothing will happen. Nor is it like an unfertilized egg, which if you leave for 9 months, nothing will happen.
It's like choking someone out who is asleep. They would have woken up and gone to work the following morning, if you didn't interrupt that process by murdering them.
>>
>>352563
If you're ignorant, maybe.
>>
>>352588
No, it's just that conservative are ignorant, wrongly believing themselves to know anything at all about this subject. It's the limitless credulity and concomitant self-righteousness of the peasant.
>>
>>352587
Sleeping humans do feel pain; if you hurt them enough they'll wake up and even unconsciously will still react to physical stimuli.
Sleeping humans also do think; that the entire concept of REM sleep and dreams, not to mention the brain is still keeping all of the vital bodily functions on.

If you take a seed out of the soil, is it a plant?
>>
>>352587
Different here
Yes, we are all corpses already by your shitty logic because inevitably we all die. Future is now! We are actually zombies.
>>
>>352547
he doesnt hate the rich, he hates the people profiting off the poor welfare of the lower classes.
>>
>>352374
No. Though I’d scrape up whatever extra I can to finally have the time/funds to work on research projects I’ll probably never get a grant for.
>>
>>352592
And unborn children also feel pain.
Unborn babies also have functioning brains, though I don't know enough about the science to tell you what's going on in there.
>>
>>352374
i probably would, but less hours. but for the concern of a smaller workforce, it would stimulate wage growth and benefits, as people would no longer absolutely rely on any minimum wage job they can get, so at least some power would shift from the employers to the employees
>>
>>352592
Yes? A tulip seed is still a tulip, albeit an immature one. Is a shoot of bamboo not considered bamboo until it grows past a certain height where it becomes useful to us? Is a human embryo not considered human until they are born? The question you want to ask is whether the laws should specify at what stage of development a person is given certain rights. This has precedent in the gating of rights behind age restrictions, so it is a far easier case to make than the bullshit "a fetus is not a person/alive" argument that is often thrown around.
>>
>>352577
>call out someone for being retarded and disingenuous
>hurr they must be triggered
>>
>>352605
No need to get triggered m8 :^)
>>
>>352379
>>352396
>>352559
>>352603
>yes, I would keep working so I have pocket money

>>352599
>>352566
>no, I would study and develop my skillet to get a really good position in society

Thank you, all of you. This proves my point nicely.

>>352381
I'm interested in an objection, as well. Link?
>>
>>352574
>If you leave a fetus in a womb, it will be born
Not necessarily. Most fertilized eggs don’t implant at all. The fraction that do can self-terminate at any time and never become a baby. If it happens early enough, the woman might not even know she miscarried. Waiting for a fetus to be born alive is delicate and by no means guaranteed; though the the older a fetus gets, the better the odds.
>>
>>352587
why do you value the life of a fetus over the life of a grown woman? the only way to get late-stage abortions is if it threatens the liufe of the mother, or the fetus is horribly deformed and likely unviable
>>
>>352381
UBI will never erase a culture of poverty wherever one already exists. Benefits work wherever people already happen to be honest and hard working because of their culture and upbringing (in places like Sweden, where they have already been proven to work beyond the shadow of any doubt for nearly a century) and fail wherever such a culture doesn't exist. This is a socio-cultural problem, not a scientific/economic one.
>>
>>352624
America overall hasnt been a culture of poverty historically. its only gotten bad in recent years, and i think that coincides with with the disparity in income between workers and those at the top
>>
>>352624
This is true. It is also not the problem UNI is meant to solve.

Poverty, or rather the idea of being a have-not, is INHERENTLY a part of any society that I evolves scarcity (and posr-scarcity is waaaaay beyond us right now). The best we can do is make it not as painful.

UBI is designed to fix destitution traps - situations whereby someone who is poor but willing to work cannot escape being poor because the upkeep on their lives is equal to or greater than the income they receive, leaving them with no money with which to improve their station and reduce their upkeep.

By raising the floor of wealth we directly back up.the spending power of the average American and allow these people to take the wealth they earn and spend it on advanced goods, like cars and appliances.

It will also theoretically improve work output since they aren't dealing with the stress of living paycheck to paycheck anymore.

There will be some who have no interest in improving themselves, but I believe they will be in the overwhelming minority - no one really WANTS to be poor.
>>
>>352589
>He thinks conservatives know what freedom is
>>
>>352629
it also solves the problem of increased automation. there's always the argument that agricultural automation just shifted the industries people got jobs in, but automation is becoming so advanced its hard to think of work that wont be affected in the next hundred years. sure, engineers will have more jobs, but engineers have never and will never have a shortage of jobs, and its not a simple career path for those without the money and intelligence to pursue it
>>
>>352361
Bernie has a good point.
>>
>>352631
True. If someone wants to be an engineer and must take time off their job to do so they can.

It's not the idealist nonsense of Marx preaching that you can be a farmer in the morning and a machinist in the evening - there is still a time investment - but you have the freedom to CHOOSE.

It does create the problem of undesirable jobs finding it harder to get workers. But all they would need to do to solve that is offer better pay, which they will be able to do because the economy overall will improve.
>>
>>352387
How many times does this have to happen till we ban assault smirks?
>>
>>352572
>>352570
>>352567
>>352585
>>352592
Until a fetus can survive outside the womb without any life support, it's still a fetus, aka by science's definition, a parasite and doesn't deserve any protections.
>>
>>352648
If someone in a coma after a car accident, and you KNOW they will recover in a maximum of 9 months, is it okay to murder them?
They are a parasite, cannot survive without any life support according to you
>>
>>352650
They're already born, so they have the rights. Also under conservative values, if the person can't pay for healthcare to stay alive, they deserve to die. So, why are you being a hypocrite?
>>
>>352651
So the vagina is a magic zone that grants life to fetuses.
>Also under conservative values, if the person can't pay for healthcare to stay alive, they deserve to die. So, why are you being a hypocrite?
Hospitals treat people who have no ability to pay. Conservatives are not against this.
>>
>>352653
>the vagina is a magic zone that grants life to fetuses
>accidentally correct dot jaypeg
>>
>>352653
>So the vagina is a magic zone that grants life to fetuses.
Uh, yes? Like, exactly yes.
>>
>>352661
>>352690
Why?
>>352651
Why do the unborn have no rights?
I don't find this to be a convincing argument, like the quakers didn't find it to be a convincing argument that slaves don't have rights because they are slaves.
>>
>>352648
Is it murder for someone with power of attorney to decide to take a vegetable off life support? You literally do not have a way of being certain that fetus won’t miscarry just as you can’t be that the vegetable will come to their senses. This is why viability is the standard.
>>
>>352691
>Why?
Well, more accurately, the uterus. Because that's literally what it does?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterus
>>
>>352694
What percentage of fetuses are unviable?
>>
>>352695
I know what the uterus does.
I am asking why does an unborn child have no rights?
By the time a woman realizes she is pregnant, the baby will be born in under 9 months, 95 out of 100 times.
So, why is it okay to murder that unborn child?
>>
>>352696
Any fetus before 22-24 weeks IIRC, birth defects not withstanding. Well after most abortions take place.
>>
>>352702
What do you mean?
You're saying that every fetus will not become a human being given under 9 months of not snuffing their life out?
So then how are there humans around?
>>
>>352703
Did you know that there’s these things called miscarriage and congenital birth defects that quite literally do prevent every fetus that was ever conceived from being born and surviving? You can’t take life away from something if it wasn’t capable of surviving out of the womb in the first place.
>>
>>352706
>Did you know that there’s these things called miscarriage and congenital birth defects that quite literally do prevent every fetus that was ever conceived from being born and surviving?
And they effect only 5% of pregnancies, by the time a woman discovers she is pregnant.
>>
>>352707
>>352707
And? That’s still enough to argue that you’re not taking a certainty away from the fetus, unlike when it reaches viability. Kinda like how you aren’t stealing a win when you get elected against odds that say your opponent has a 90% chance of winning.
>>
>>352708
Taking a certainty*
I’m sure the point was clear anyway but whatever.
>>
>>352708
Someone will die in their sleep a small percentage of the time.
If you choke out someone who is asleep. They would have woken up and gone to work the following morning, if you didn't interrupt that process by murdering them. 99+% of the time.
There's no certainty they wouldn't have died in their sleep otherwise, but it was a small chance, and you guaranteed that death.
>>
Those five million who dropped off the welfare rolls clearly directly benefited.
We know they were not billionaires, whether or not all these five million are friends of the Donald future ballots will show.
>>
>>352691
>>352694
They don't since they are completely reliant on their host. Once they can survive on their own without any support, they are considered a baby and get the rights everyone enjoys. Until then, they are properly categorized as a parasite. And if you want to give them all the help possible, you better start dumping more money into entitlement and helping the poor and minorities, otherwise you just exposed yourselves as hypocrites.
>>
>>352751
>Once they can survive on their own without any support, they are considered a baby and get the rights everyone enjoys.
So, you don't have to feed them or anything, right?
>>
>>352752
They should be able to pull themselves up by their own placentas if they're hungry.
>>
>>352751
>And if you want to give them all the help possible, you better start dumping more money into entitlement and helping the poor and minorities, otherwise you just exposed yourselves as hypocrites.
I don't understand.
Do you want the poster above you to be murdered in cold blood?
If not, are you willing to pay for his room and board? You better, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
>>
>>352631
And then there's the simpler argument that everyone (physically) can't be an engineer. Being an engineer takes a natural predisposition and a liking for handiwork. People can't force themselves to have this. You have it or you don't. If you don't develop such an affinity early in life, you will never get anywhere in engineering, career wise.
>>
>>352648
Like I said, plz keep talking.
This is great stuff
>>
>>352772

Will this piss Donald off? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGykWqLo98k
>>
>>352713
That sleeping person is already capable of living without life support and did not lose that ability, so it's not comparable.
>>
Its cool to see Trump address socialism, shows they're paying attention to it more than in the past few decades.
>>
>Bernie Sanders thread
>infested with pro-lifers
How does this happen? Are they just everywhere?
>>
>>352777
People who believe that humans are ethically worthless up to the instant of birth, after which they have the ethical worth of any other human being, are probably a rarity in general.

Why it actually came up in this thread is a separate issue.
>>
>>352776
It makes sense. Socialism is actually on the radar screen in this country now compared to a few decades ago when it wasn't even a thing. They were so good at suppressing people's inner desire to vote according to their actual interests that addressing it wasn't even necessary. They feel threatened by it now.
>>
i hope the donald realizes that by naming the socialism he's actually giving it a platform
>>
>>352782
This was the Deep State's plan all along. Elect Donald Trump to make fascism and nazism look ridiculous. Then, repulsed by the ridiculousness of fascism and nazism as embodied by Donald Trump, the electorate will turn right to socialism and communism. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
>>
>>352779
Meanwhile the religious right and conservatives only care about you from conception to birth, after that you're on your own.
Just look at how they operation. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, nothing. They care all about the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own.
>>
>>352785
if only government were that intelligent and effective. in reality, the US just has a lot of stupid people
>>
>>352782
Ironically it's the same thing that got him elected. They just kept giving him attention, to the extent they showed an empty podium instead of one of Bernie's speeches.

So please, Donald. Rail against socialism some more. Let's see how that turns out for you.
>>
>>352794
Do you want the poster above you to be murdered in cold blood?
If not, are you willing to pay for his room and board? You better, otherwise you're a hypocrite.
>>
>>352817
That's the entire mainstream conservative mindset in a nutshell. Their entire outlook is built on bad faith, deception, and lets face it, acceptance of criminality if it means winning.

People like thay literally cannot conceive of other people having a different set of values. They think others must be as deceptive as they are. For example, they can't comprehend fighting for the rights of people different than you are just because you think it's the right thing. Hence the accusations of: "Using racial minorities and LGBTQ people for their votes" and "Surely the left doesn't actually care about these people, it's just virtue signalling!"

It's a sad and morally bankrupt world view. No wonder they get along with the Russians so well.
>>
>>352361
Thank god I can still believe in getting something for nothing. God I love free stuff. Bernie 2020.
>>
>>352880
This coming from the retard who voted for Trump in the hopes of getting a wall and tax cuts without having to pay for it.
>>
>>352871
I had the most disturbing thing happen to me on this board the other day.

I was giving a redcap the spiel of the wall - the huge cost, the lack of need, et cetera - and he hit me with this zinger.

>would you still care if all the illegals were white?

And I just sort of blanked for a second. I stared at my screen for a really long time, wondering what sort of brain would ask that, before answering honestly:

>yes. Would you not?

I got no reply.
>>
>>352871
Impressive strawmanning.
>>
>>352891
And his name? Albert Einstein. Nice reddit formatting too you retarded shill.
>>
>>352897
It's not strawman, it's the facts.
>>
>>352901
What, you don't believe me?

https://archive.nyafuu.org/news/thread/345530/#345748

And it's called double spacing, newfag.
>>
>>352883
I live in Canada, I'm just stating the fact that I love free shit and having other people pay for it.
>>
>>352917
what, so you don't pay taxes? The fuck's wrong with you?
>>
>>352920
Didn't you hear our prime minister? Low income Canadians don't pay taxes. Obviously it's true.
>>
>>352921
No, because I'm American. I don't pay attention to everything Trudeau says.
>>
>>352908
>broad categorization of a group of people, built on multiple assumptions
>"it's the facts lol"
Sweetie...
>>
>>352921
This is bullshit.
A poor person might have a third of their salary go to taxes.
>>
>>352629
I'm just going to point out that the working poor almost always have money spending issues, not income issues. I know people who constantly bitch about not having enough money for gas, but last week they were bragging about buying some fucking Overwatch skins, or how they donated to a Twitch streamer, and where the fuck did those new drapes and chairs come from? Were the old ones really so bad that they needed replacing? The working poor almost always have draining vices like daily pot use, cigarette addiction, alcoholism, or a gambling problem. They almost always spend the little money they have on useless shit. They're incapable of saving a dime, and live week to week no matter if they pull in $300 a week, or $800. The $800 ones just waste money on bigger things, like a new car and phone every year.
Source: I grew up in an entire community of these people. They were really failed by the education system, which does nothing to teach how to manage resources effectively and push away the desire for instant gratification. Giving them more money will not help. They'll promise to put it to good use, and they'll mean it, but in the end their poor impulse control will leave them broke again before the month is up.
>>
>>352871
>It's a sad and morally bankrupt world view. No wonder they get along with the Jews so well.

BASED
>>
>>352871
What?
You're the one who is saying "If you don't want this baby killed, you have to pay for their room and board until they are 18".
That's the point of the question.
I want people to have neo-natal care, day care, lunch at school, roof over their head, all of that. And I believe the best way to do it is for the parent to provide that for a child.
And if they're not willing to provide that for their children, they shouldn't be having unprotected sex. Sex leading to babies is one of those things that is known to happen.
You're acting as though the mother just has the child, like it is mana from heaven and just happened. And not that it was her decisions that led to having that child.
The purpose of having market capitalism is to measure trade offs. Deciding if your kid will go to sumer camp or you will buy a new TV for your household. There is no economic system that changes that fundamental reality that we live in a world of scarcity, and by having the government or insurance pay for something, you're forcing onto people decisions they wouldn't want to otherwise make. Individual mandate is total example of this.
>>
>>352901
I wasn't saying that because I doubted you, I was saying it because you wrote your post like a shitty, overdescriptive blogpost typical of "and then the whole bus clapped" stories. What's more unbelievable is that you're disturbed by some anon bringing up "would you still care if all the illegals were white" when you're on 4chan of all places, and supposedly veteran enough to call people newfags, newfag.
D I S T U R B I N G
>>
>>352952
>>352913
zzzz
>>
>>352936
This
>>
>>352936
Honestly I agree with this. I make 30k in LA and pay half my wage in rent, yet still manage to meet all of my basic needs while still saving some in the bank. It's not about having what you want, but about wanting what you have.
>>
>>352938
Space your posts you fucking autist.
>>
>>352989
>specifically

>requesting

>reddit

>spacing
>>
>>353110
>being this scared of being called Reddit
>>
>>352891
Were you visibly shaking too? He was asking because there are honest to goodness anti-white racists running around trying to dilute us on some misguided moral crusade. He thought you might be one of those, because all you were doing was regurgitating talking points while trying to sound smart. You ignore history by saying a 70% tax on the ultra rich will work, but if you have that kind of cash then you can hire people to make sure you never pay that rate, even if it means paying once and leaving the US. We're talking millions of dollars, it's worth expatriating over. You say the wall is bullshit, because reasons, but it was okay when Obama was doing it of course, and obviously we should just spend billions on some unproven tech and more border agents instead of a lightly manned barrier that has proven results? Or maybe we should do nothing at all. That's what it always comes down to. Borders are too hard! Ignore that we built a national 150,000 mile long highway system a hundred years ago with none of the logistics and technology of today, and never mind that putting up a steel slat fence is an insignificant amount of effort per mile compared to building heavily trafficked roads and the various infrastructure to go with them. Granted, the highway system was a boon for the economy, but that's what the border wall is for as well. A source can only handle so much load before it destabilizes, and the US economy is brittle right now. Under the weight of 14 million people who drain us (yes they fucking do, they don't speak the language, they don't understand the culture, they're poorly educated and they're getting public assistance) we're eventually going to pay for our generosity. California is absolutely groaning under the load but they refuse to acknowledge there being a problem. Standing at the southern border and saying "fuck off, we're full" is an important part of shutting the flow off, but dems don't want it. Hmm, why?
>>
>>352989
I did. Using line breaks
>>
>bringing up private medical care which his plan illegalizes
Why does he do this to himself?
>>
>>352376
>racist attacks


Fucking leave my country right now.
I am so fucking sick of you liberal retards. GET OUT.
>>
>>353160
>>353142
Uncle nuclear smart bigly aaabrains do be best for tremendous covfefe. Ask anyone!
>>
the liberal chat bot above me is short circuiting
>>
>>353257
>anyone who disagrees with me is a bot!
Yikes.

>>353255
And here's a reply for good measure.
>>
I know who you are through the internet because you're the only person who says yikes
And you act like a liberal butt burglar every time you post
>>
>>353160
Not your country any more racist. Your tyranny is coming to an end.
>>
>>352989
You showed him
>>
>>353142
Build the wall out of text, goddamn. This is so many rapid fire incorrect statements and wrong points it would take me a thread to get them all.

So I'm just gonna call the whole thing bullshit.
>>
>>353304
Nice argument.
>>
>>353291
And you have the most autistic typing style of all time so you're easy to recognize. You're probably a chronic ban evader because you have certainly already posted in this thread.
>>
>>353460
>you have the most autistic typing style of all time so you're easy to recognize
the completely unfalsifiable "everyone who disagrees with me has the same style and is therefore the same person" hypothesis continues to get mileage
>>
>>353462
And there you go again. Isn't it freaky how you reply to a post about you in minutes like that? Is this your job or what? At least I have the excuse that I was sleeping. I guess they don't sleep at the troll farms.
>>
>>353465
the completely unfalsifiable "everyone who disagrees with me has the same style and is therefore the same person" hypothesis continues to get mileage
>>
>>353384
Better than yours.
>>
>>353475
Nice argument.
>>
>>352361
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4tP7ogWIA
>>
>>353467
Post it one more time, NPC.
>>
>>353537
I liked it :^)
>>
>>353142

No one is saying that the wall isn't doable you cretin.

The reason why liberals are so angry is because we have so many real problems that take money to solve. And we're already borrowing money from China to support our military and our prison system. We don't have billions to spend on an imaginary problem.

And that's what illegal border-crossing is, it's a made-up crisis. It's a story written to appeal to your insecurities.

Most crossings happen at designated ports. You're dumb.
Immigrants spend money, they participate in the economy, they are disproportionately likely to start small businesses, their children are disproportionately likely to succeed in school. You're dumb.
We don't have a job shortage anymore. We have labor shortages all over the country. You're dumb.
Trump's new immigration policies caused food prices to go up last year. Vegetables were rotting in the fields. The e-coli outbreak happened because the lettuce wasn't being washed because they were trying to save money. You're dumb.
The highway system created value you twat. Republicans need to learn the difference between investments that pay off and investments that don't. Military spending doens't create value. Building prisons doesn't create value. Corporate tax cuts don't create value. These things simply drain us (unlike the immigrants who participate in our economy).
>>
/News/ = /Cancer/
>>
>>353539
At least Bernie's got a sense of humor and the skit he was in went over well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL2dGTDQXVo
>>
>>352936
>money spending issues

Sure, that's true. Wealthier kids learn financial literacy, mostly from role models. Poor kids, well, it's more like... "You're either going to hit it big, and get out of this town, or you'll end up right back here and drink away your sorrow like I do."

>not income issues

What, no, that's retarded. Main street America is being strangled and that is a fact. Pointing out the spending issues doesn't change that. Quitting cigarettes and canceling cable isn't going to fix poverty in America, you are being ridiculous.

>Giving them more money will not help.

How much research have you actually done on the economics of poverty?

You saw it first hand, yes, but that doesn't mean you now what you're talking about. Seeing it first hand just means you're liable to have drawn an emotional conclusion, a conclusion designed to help you make sense of things emotionally, rather than an evidence-based one.
>>
>>353552
Looks like another orange fan is mad.
>>
>>353549
amen brother
>>
>>353555
>But we're gonna change it when we get to America so it doesn't sound quite so Jewish.
>Yeah... that'll trick 'em!

SNL is pretty self-aware.
>>
>>353549
>And that's what illegal border-crossing is, it's a made-up crisis.
Bro, either you don't live in America or you live in an area that isn't affected by these problems.
>The e-coli outbreak happened because the lettuce wasn't being washed because they were trying to save money.
E-coli contamination happens when feces gets into food or water supplies. It's entirely likely that it spread because somebody took a massive shit out on the field, and washing the lettuce doesn't remove the bacteria, only the soil/feces.
>>
>>353567

But there is so much room for the average working-poor American to be healthier and happier by simply learning to live with less.

One thing we don't talk about very much is that we are literally brainwashed to spend money for pleasure.
>>
>>353575
Well gee, I can't possibly imagine why. Over the course of one generation, we've gone from limitless growth and endless potential to

>Limitless inflation with wages stagnant for 80 years
>Social Security will be bankrupt before my generation ever gets to cash in
>No benefits
>No retirement
>Traditional life, family life, marriage, all destroyed

The one thing we have going for us is that we live in the only age in human history where consumer culture is a thing that can exist, and you want us to give up our few creature comforts IN ADDITION to continuing to work 40 hour weeks with mandatory unpaid overtime, competing with chinks and wetbacks for dwindling benefits and managing to barely scrape by in a world where all loans, credit, or financial mobility of any kind comes at the cost of blood-sucking, draconian 28%+ interest rates?

In THAT world, you want me to learn to live with less and be happy, now that the generations that came before have grown old, fat and happy riding off the back of my wasted youth, busting my ass for a pittance to pay for their retirement?

I'll kill everyone on the planet before I accept it. I will have the same creature comforts as my parents and their parents, or I'll burn down every retirement home until they all die agonizing, painful deaths.

There is no in between.
>>
>>353575
"Hey, guess what! Now that your immediate ancestors have made and lost untold fortunes consolidating all the land and resources in the world, more fortunes selling it all out to foreign interests, have forced you to pay in for three or four decades to benefits you'll never use, forced you to subsidize, bail out, shill for and sell your rights to their companies, and then turned around and sold out those companies for a fantastic retirement, not even bothering to pass the family farm or fortune down to their kids...

Why don't you kids learn to do more with less? After all, muh planet."
>>
>>352936
>last week they were bragging about buying some fucking Overwatch skins, or how they donated to a Twitch streamer, and where the fuck did those new drapes and chairs come from?
>Why don't poor people just live like soulless automatons and take absolutely no joy from anything to save their pennies? Then they'd have it easy!
>>
>>353622
There are other hobbies you can get that don't involve wasting all of your money and time on lottery tickets, loot boxes and fashion. I think you guys just don't have the patience to get good at anything. I'm very sorry that you feel like life is short and precious and you don't know how to make the most of it with out spoiling yourself but tattoos, weed, alcohol, lottery tickets, and loot boxes aren't making it better.
>>
>>353635
I don’t think you understand at all. The tacit agreement here between us poor working stiffs and the rest of society, and probably also the reason we don’t rise up and kill everyone who makes more than us, is that we have the same rights to peruse and enjoy these modern comforts as anyone else.

Realistically, we’re already making do with less, after 80 years without a decent raise to match inflation. We’re also still working our asses off, despite getting constantly shit on by bosses, customers and dumb boomers like you.

Leave the creature comforts alone. Also perhaps recognize that economic collapse comes around every couple centuries and wipes out all of the petty savings anyway. Capital Investments MIGHT survive a crash, but expecting people who can barely afford an eat-work-sleep cycle with few hobbies to give up the only fun things in life and live like a monk is unreasonable. Also unintelligent.
>>
>>353549
>We have other problems so we can't solve this one!
False dichotomy, we can do more than one thing at a time.
>it's a made-up crisis.
Roughly 14 million people doesn't seem made up. We don't know who most of them are, the ones we do know are on average less educated than citizens, they're very unlikely to get educated, they're likely to be abused by scumbags because they have no idea how this country is supposed to work and what protections they have, and the places where they're concentrated has high poverty and crime.
>a story written to appeal to your insecurities
I'm a highly paid software dev. I don't even have to worry about H-1Bs. Don't make wild assumptions about your opponent.
>Most crossings happen at designated ports
This is also a problem, and we can solve both of them. We don't have to choose.
>We have labor shortages all over the country.
For highly skilled labor. Competitive farms are mechanized to a crazy degree.
>Vegetables were rotting in the fields
This happens every year because food production is subsidized and it's not profitable to harvest everything most years. This is done to avoid shortages on years with poor yield
>the lettuce wasn't being washed because they were trying to save money.
Lettuce is a dangerous food. It just is. It's impossible to clean fully, even with chlorinated washes, without destroying the quality of the product, and it's very easy to contaminate. Leafy greens in general are dangerous, with 11 outbreaks and 242 illnesses per year on average.
Source:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/26/why-e-coli-keeps-getting-into-our-lettuce/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.81cd2b3cc5af
>You're dumb.
Go fuck yourself.
>The highway system created value
Keeping the population somewhat culturally homogenous creates value. That doesn't mean shut down immigration, it means all immigrants need to be educated so they understand the country and can fit in well.
>>
>>353644
>We’re also still working our asses off, despite getting constantly shit on by bosses, customers and dumb boomers like you.
>Burger flipper problems
You don't actually know what work is kiddo.
>>
>>353654
Locksmith, jackass. Just my luck that all the jobs I've had since I got out of school - Auto mechanic, Gunsmith, and now locksmith - are all minimum wage jobs now because the number of people who want the jobs far outweighs the number of jobs there are.

Go ahead, try and argue that locksmiths don't contribute anything to the economy. Tell me all about how you'll get by after the homeless steal all of the liquor and tobacco from the market now that there's nobody to replace any of the locks they break into, or service any of the cameras and alarms, or fix your gun safe when you lock your dumb ass out of it.

I'll wait.
>>
>>353662
You're making below the national average so that's on your employer or your area which you can change.

>that whole second paragraph
Sounds like you're lashing out due to regret. Go ahead and destroy a pretend argument that I wasn't going to make before I even had a chance to.
>>
>>353549
>And that's what illegal border-crossing is, it's a made-up crisis. It's a story written to appeal to your insecurities.
The problem I have is the media talks out of both sides of their mouth on this issue.
A kid dies of exhaustion at the border, and for the week the media says it was crisis, this is worse than children in cagesthis is dead kids.
Then trump says he agrees. Families crossing the border is a crisis because of the amount of people dying of dehydration and are sexually assaulted on the trip over, and then the media says it's a fake crisis of people crossing the border.
>>
>>353662
Depending on where you are and the work you take, locksmithing is extremely profitable or will leave you nearly homeless. Try moving somewhere better for your field.
>>
>>353721
Locksmithing can be extremely profitable almost anywhere as long as you have 50-250 grand to drop on buying the machines, the automotive programming equipment (you have to program car keys now) safecracking rigs, work vans, a brick and mortar building and everything else you need to go into business entirely for yourself. Everyone who works as labor for those guys makes minimum wage, because the jobs are in demand and there’s plenty of labor supply.

Just like most trade jobs in (Current Year), actually.
>>
What's with the Bernie spam lately?
>>
>>353885
If he runs again then maybe blowing my student loan backing him wont be in vain
>>
>>353887
That's exactly what a lot of stupid kids did in 2016 and it didn't end well. No refunds.
>>
>>352361
Sad that all the Socialist nonsense Trump was spouting wasn't Socialist enough for Bernie.

Honestly, it's hard to imagine your typical politicians not liking his speech.
>>
>>354003
Bernie called it out for what it was: Nonsense.

Bernie will do what needs to be done.
>>
>>353885
>one thread is "spam"
Wow, /pol/ppets are fucking losing it at the very real prospect of a democratic socialist becoming president.
>>
>>353903
Hey idiot. You're a moron.
>>
>>352620
why do you value the life of a grown woman over a fetus? not looking to argue just like laughing at the non-existent "logic" of pro-choicers.
>>
>>354086
Why don't you answer his question first, kid?
>>
>>354088
this >>354086 post was my first in this thread, im not sure its my responsibility to answer a question that wasn't addressed to me.
>>
>>354089
That doesn't matter. It's only fair that you answer a question before you get an answer to yours.
>>
>>354092
I disagree with you but I'll answer the question anyway because nothing is to be gained from being petty and difficult.

I don't value the life of a fetus over a grown woman, just as I don't value the life of a grown woman over a fetus. I happen to value all life equally as long as all the people involved are relatively innocent, apparently that's a radical notion when it comes to the abortion debate.
>>
>>354081
No. Refunds.
>>
>>354116
That meme is stupid. Refunds for political donations have never been a thing.
>>
>>354122
And it's particularly dumb in this case considering he is going to run again. Wow would you look at that, my money went to good use.
>>
>>354123
>And it's particularly dumb in this case considering he is going to run again. Wow would you look at that, my money went to good use.
I can't wait see your butthurt after he sells out to the establishment and gives all of your money to someone like Hillary again.

It's cool though, another election= another vacation home!
>>
>>354155
It's also dumb to act like him supporting Hillary after the primary was a sell out or at all surprising or unusual. The primary was over. The nomination was decided. Hillary was the Democratic party's nominee. People might not like that, but at that point the only option Sanders had was to support Hillary because once the primary was over that was the only thing you could do if you wanted to stop Donald Trump from being elected.
>>
>>354157
And it's particularly dumb in this case because he's going to win the nomination this time.
>>
>>354157
>was a sell out or at all surprising or unusual.
Yeah I'm not going to placate your desire for continued denial. It was both, hence why his supporters erupted into a civil war over the issue. The outcry was insane, "No refunds" meme didn't just come about for nothing.

>The primary was over. The nomination was decided.
Before the primary! Cause it was rigged! And he sold out anyway!

>People might not like that
Lots of people were pissed the the DNC for rigging their primary, yes.

> but at that point the only option Sanders had was to support Hillary because once the primary was over that was the only thing you could do if you wanted to stop Donald Trump from being elected.
And he failed, which is one more thing Sanders has always been consistent in doing. Failing and selling out.
>>
>>354158
>DNC
>nominating an old straight white male
Pick one
>>
>>354159
Primary opponents throwing their support behind the nominee is standard practice. You might not know that because you never paid any attention to politics before 2016, but that's how it works. Yes, the primary was unfairly skewed in Hillary's favor. But once the primary was done, the focus of every sane person in the country needed to be on stopping Trump. You might not understand that, but Sanders did.
>>
>>354163
>Primary opponents throwing their support behind the nominee is standard practice.
So he's a standard politician doing what standard politicians do.
So he's a standard establishment sellout, despite his anti-establishment platform.
Got it.

>Yes, the primary was unfairly skewed in Hillary's favor.
You mean rigged. it was rigged. Say the word- "rigged".

>But once the primary was done, the focus of every sane person in the country needed to be on stopping Trump. You might not understand that, but Sanders did.
And he failed. And will fail again, because failing it what he does. But maybe he'll get luck and die of old age before he has to lose yet another election.

Your tears are delicious.
>>
>>354161
Bernie's nomination is necessary to prove that there are old straight white males who aren't retarded Trump sycophants.
>>
>>354164
It's a standard thing to do because it's the way you mitigate a loss. Given the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, Sanders chose to support Hillary because he understood that Trump would be worse. It was the correct call to make at the time and calling it a "sell out" only proves how ignorant you are of how elections work or indeed the meaning of the words sell out. And yes, Hillary still lost, but that's something we know now, not something Sanders knew when he chose to support Hillary. You might not understand this, but the reality is that we make decisions with the information we have available at the time.
>>
>>354159
The people pushing the "no refunds" meme are Trump supporters whose entire existence revolves around mocking others over anything they can think of because they have no idea how to actually improve their own lives.
>>
>>354122
Not true.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/donors-to-border-wall-gofundme-campaign-will-receive-refunds-2019-01-12
>>
>>354176
Gofundme is not a political donation.
>>
>>354177
Paying to build a wall along the southern border isn't a political issue?
Shit. Someone tell Nancy Pelosi
Unless you're saying that Bernie Sanders could have offered refunds if he was getting money through GoFundMe instead of a PAC
>>
>>354183
Did you really think any of your money was going to go towards a border wall, you poor sap?
>>
>>354183
The GoFundMe page for the wall never had the legal ability to actually fund the border wall. It was always just some guy in conning people out of their money, not a real political donation. And no, Sanders could not have given people a refund through GoFundME.
>>
>>354185
Did any of the money Donated to Bernie Sanders for President go towards Bernie Sanders becoming president?
>>
>>354189
Considering he's running again? Yes.
>>
>>354188
>The GoFundMe page for the wall never had the legal ability to actually fund the border wall
Why not? If he was going to every land owner in Texas and asking them to buy the last 4 feet of their property and to build a wall along it, what law would that have been violating?
>>
>>354189
It went to his campaign. That money doesn't magically get unspent if a candidate loses.
>>
>>354192
Well somehow this GoFundMe managed to do that. He was campaigning for months for the wall and was able to offer refunds to all his donors. This veteran was on talk shows and at events all across the country. And was still able to offer refunds after his campaign to privately build a wall along the southern border failed
>>
>>354193
> Well somehow this GoFundMe managed to do that.
Because the money wasn't spent.

> He was campaigning for months for the wall and was able to offer refunds to all his donors.
He wasn't spending any money "campaigning" for the wall.

> This veteran was on talk shows and at events all across the country.
Because idiots like you bought in to the con and were willing to give him air time.

> And was still able to offer refunds after his campaign to privately build a wall along the southern border failed
Because the money hadn't been spent.
>>
>>354191
> If he was going to every land owner in Texas and asking them to buy the last 4 feet of their property and to build a wall along it, what law would that have been violating?
He wouldn't have been able to get all of them to sell. Unlike the government he does not have eminent domain, so if someone told him to go fuck himself and refused to sell then he would have been shit out of luck.
>>
People mocking Bernie's expression at the SOTU are dumb. He clearly had a determined look. "We'll see about that next year, you punk bitch."

And so we shall.
>>
>>354200
It was a neutral enough expression that people can project on it.

I thought he looked bored. "Oh boy, more of this shit."
>>
>>352376
disingenuous call for unity, and then spent the rest of the time making racists attacks and the....yeah you didn't hear the speech, buzzfeed told you
>>
>>354255
Didn't watch the speech, but what racist statements did he make?
>>
Socialism would work if everyone was smart. That's why it works in the northeast of the United States and in Scandinavia. So my question is: why isn't everyone smart?
>>
>>354277
You're responding to a Trumptard who thinks everything that portrays the God Emperor in a bad light is Buzzfeed.
>>
>>354418
Is there any source, BuzzFeed or otherwise, that catalogues the racist attacks Trump made during the SOTU?
>>
>>353853
I wouldn't say that at least for welding most of them make 50-80$/hr
>>
>>354420
Yes, he once again described scenes from Sicario 2 and claimed they were what was happening on the border.
>>
>>354300
You're an idiot or a liar if you think anywhere in the US or Europe is Socialist or uses Socialism.
>european here
>>
>>354445
The American definition of socialism is a nation with public services, a welfare system, and a regulated market. If you have things like public health care, public schools, public utilities, public housing, etc. then you're considered socialist.
>>
>>354436
Welding is known to be an exception and is one of the rare trade jobs that is highly profitable.
>>
>>354456
>public services
check
>a welfare system
check
>regulated market
check
>public health care
not check
>public schools
check
>public utilities
check
>public housing
not check

to think that the united states was a 70% socialist paradise already, who knew we could be so blessed
>>
>>354464
There are plenty of extremely wealthy people in the US who want to reduce the number of those things that America has, and some states in which they're succeeding. It's a battle just to tread water, let alone make progress.
>>
>>354464
>public housing
section 8
>public health care
medicare, madicaid
>>
>"WALLS WORK"
>Berlin Wall, the most famous wall in history, went down as a colossal failure that had to be torn down

What did Cheeto Benito mean by this?
>>
You're all faggots.
>>
>>354618
And amusingly the other contender for most famous wall in history failed so much that the Chinese had an entire dynasty, the Yuan Dynasty, that were Mongols.
>>
>>354488
so, america right now, in the year 2019, is a socialist state, but some rich people are trying to undo socialism the same way the former soviet bloc states undid socialism after the collapse of the USSR.

that sounds like the premise of an entertaining novel but is an extraordinarily poor description of america today.

>>354549
section 8 is not not actually public housing, it's subsidized housing / housing vouchers. america hasn't done actual public housing per se since the 70s because when they tried it ("the projects") it was a complete fucking disaster for everyone involved.

>medicare, madicaid
i was going to say that this is a small fraction of americans but then i checked the numbers and fully 40% of americans are on government health insurance of some kind (medicare, medicaid, or military). wild. still, again, that's technically public health insurance rather than public health care, which are different industries.
>>
>>354630
Most of the people on government health benefits are retirees
>>
>>354628
That is because a chinese general opened the door and let them in.
>>
>>354630
>in the year 2019, is a socialist state,
No.

Only you (and other right-wing retards) are calling those public services socialist and you are being retarded for doing that. That was the fucking point in the earlier post he made that anything done publicly is SOCIALIST *gasp* in America. But some of the rich are trying to get rid of those public services like the other poster said. That doesn't mean they are trying to get rid of socialism because YOU named it socialism. They are just public services and you calling it socialism doesn't make it socialism.
>>
>>354618
Wasn't the Berlin incredibly effective and its removal was due to the shifting political climate as opposed to ineffectiveness?
>>
>>354668
It did jack didly squat.
>>
>>354672
It kept the Soviet controlled East Grrman citizens from escaping into West Berlin. During it's time, it is estimated that 100k attempts were made to cross the wall, only just over 5000 of which were ultimately successful. So roughly a 95% success rate
>>
>>354630
>so, america right now, in the year 2019, is a socialist state

Jesus fucking Christ is there a faucet that just pours out babbling nincompoops like you? Do you know what socialism is?
>>
>>354638
>social programs aren't socialism
Okay.
>>
>>352374
Even if only some people decide to not work or cut their hours it means less production so profits are less so less income on the rich to tax so less money to redistribute. It means the funds for the UBI with dry up and everything with become far more expensive.

It's a bad idea, and it's obvious to anyone who understands the consequences of economic policies.
>>
>>352476
>muh russians
>>
>>352484
>not forcibly taking money from people to for universal health care for people who refuse to just get private insurance is "murdering" them.
You'd be more convincing if you weren't so hyperbolic.
>>
>>354696
it turns out that this is in fact true, for the same reason that social media isn't socialism: they're not the same word

more at eleven
>>
>>354709
>socialized healthcare isn't socialism
Alright?
>>
>>352384
That depends on what "Area" you're talking about. Does it mean "Any housing in my area" or "Housing in the safe and desirable part of the area", because if it's the former, there's 20+ listings in Gary, Indiana with house mortgages at 34 bucks a month. It's near enough to Chicago you can easily hold a job with a used car and gas money. But it's Gary, Indiana.
Because if it's about a certain level of quality, then it's no longer just "Able to cover the bills and have a roof" but creating a standard, which will keep going up, and up, and up, as more and more people take what's available.Eventually "reasonable" proximity to work that has a decent enough location will be impossible due to physical limitations, and it'll sprawl too much for public transit to remedy.
>>
>>354696
>>354726
Social = Capitalistic and market driven economy that is taxed to fund programs or services provided by the government, the government does not own the entire industry it is offering (Private medical still exists, toll roads, private roads, etc)

Socialist = Government owns the industry and prevents competition, such as if all oil production was seized and only controlled by the government.
>>
>>354737
And yeah. The standards are going to keep going up. Obviously.
Look at the expectations of people a hundred and 50 years ago. When it came to plumbing, electricity, variety of diet, internet, clothing and so on. People's standard's continue to go up. That's why saying that the poor in America are better than the middle class in various countries is true. Though presumably being poor and Gary Indiana is worse than being poor in many countries
>>
>>354741
Exactly. Socialized healthcare isn't socialism, it's just a program that redistributes fiscal resources which is coincidentally owned by the government. These are completely different and I can't see the similarities at all.
>>
>>354741
>Socialist = Government owns the industry and prevents competition, such as if all oil production was seized and only controlled by the government.
This is actually communism by definition
>>
>>354676
How do you know how many people crossed the wall? It's not like there were cameras.

The fact that anyone got through shows that it failed at its job.
>>
>>354773
>The fact that anyone got through shows that it failed at its job.
the police don't catch every criminal, i guess it's time to abolish them
>>
>>354775
You are arguing with a caricature of a man
>>
>>354776
with how the board's been lately it's getting harder and harder to tell
>>
>>352374

I would quit one of my two jobs and work the one I find more enjoyable and fulfilling. Or maybe quit both and go back to school full time. But I've tried the NEET life before and it was not for me. Granted, neither is the wage slave life. I want a happy medium.
>>
>>354751
Like the earlier poster already said: Having some kind of public healthcare or other services does not make healthcare or other services socialism or socialized because there are still private services too.
>>
>>352374
I would work for more money because I'm a hard worker and dont mind putting in work
But I've known far too many people that have had babies simply to increase the amount of "free money" they get from the government and have very seldom worked, because it's easier to sit home and smoke weed all day and in their words "kids basically yet care of themselves by age 8" so they've had 3 so far to get the 4k ayear tax refund and this is all their income
People like this deserve no more help. Giving them more Gibs like this will only encourage more people to leech off society
>>
>>354785
You're still missing my point; those two terms are not mutually exclusive. Universal healthcare, as was found in the US, was essentially just a redistribution of care by the state. This is why many Americans associate it with socialism. Playing semantics games with colloquialisms is retarded.
>>
>>354776
>>354777
>Anyone who disagrees with me is a troll!

This is getting pretty pathetic, dudes.
>>
>>352361
>People certainly are not free when they cannot afford to feed their families.”
Dont make families with a baby daddy or when you cant support them .
>>
>>352498
>thinkprogress
>>
>>354808
>website repeats something the president said with video proof
>Trumptards still cry about fake news
>>
>>354708
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/23/repealing-the-affordable-care-act-will-kill-more-than-43000-people-annually/?noredirect=on
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/28/15881720/deaths-senate-health-care-bcra
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/24/us-healthcare-republican-bill-no-coverage-death
Oops, Republicans DO want to kill people.
>>
>>354842
What's it using as a differential?
The law is a trade off. With the individual mandate as an example, every dollar that a young person is spending on health insurance is a dollar they're not spending on a car, education, rent or a roof over their head.
In terms of casualties are they using gross casualties? Or net casualties? And what's the metric they are using to measure the lives saved by not spending that money on healthcare?
>>
>>354842
Green new deal. Cant produce pollution while dead
>>
>>354842
88,000 people die every year of alcohol-related deaths.

Therefore, anyone who wants alcohol to be legal is a murderer.
>>
>>354842
https://youtu.be/eXWhbUUE4ko
>>
>>354096
i value the life of a grown woman over a fetus because of the effect death has. when you die, you're dead and gone. the only negative effect death has is on the people around you. people generally have family and friends, and their death affects others. a fetus has a smaller circle to affect. you also have to consider the suffering; death from childbirth would be infinitely more agonizing than the process of abortion. furthermore, kids in foster homes are far more likely to suffer substance abuse issues, for many reasons. abandonment issues and the state of the foster care system, for example. its a fucked up life. might as well preserve the established life, and not throw some kid into a bunch of bullshit he has to deal with alone
>>
>>354676
how long was this wall and how many people manned it 24/7?
>>
>>354676
>>355140
and also what was the penalty for an attempted crossing?
>>
>>355140
>>355141
The wall was 155km long and was manned by hundreds of guards and dogs. Most people who tried to get across were shot to death.
>>
>>355143
Ah yes, hundreds of guards and only 155km. That is exactly the same as the length of the US-Mexico border and so these situations are very comparable.
>>
>>355148
Not really. Nobody is actually willing to shoot somebody that crosses the border.
>>
>>355148
No one claimed the situations were comparable. We were just correcting this dumbass >>354618
>>
>>355161
Except he's right, the Berlin Wall was an abject failure.
>>
>>355163
In what way?
>>
>>355164
Tell me, do you see it still up?
>>
>>355165
It was removed because it was too effective for the changing political climate
>>
>>355165
The B-17 Flying Fortress isn't around anymore, but it was still considered a smashing success at the time that it was operational given that it won WWII and all.
>>
>>355167
>>355168
Things that were considered successes at the time are seen as failures later once more educated people understand them.
>>
>>355173
>Things that were considered successes at the time are seen as failures later once more educated people understand them.
That's a neat platitude, but doesn't correspond to reality in any way.
>>
>>355173
And people who speak in vapid platitudes can often be ignored.
>>
>>355174
>>355175
>platitude
Samefag detected.
>>
>>355174
Of course it does. Life is full of dull platitudes. That doesn't mean they aren't applicable.
>>
>>355179
If two people see a dog, they'll both call it a dog.

Your ancestors aren't around anymore, so I guess they're failures, and soon so will your parents and then you.
>>
>>355181
I think you're the samefagging dog who has been hit. And like a dog that has been hit, you are hollering.
>>
>>355185
If you genuinely think that someone pulled out a phone to point out that your platitude was a platitude twice in fifteen seconds you're insane. If you don't, you're a base shitposter. Both are poor.
>>
>>355187
There are plenty of shills on this board. It's not unreasonable to believe that you are one of them. And you just keep hollering.
>>
>>355188
Hit shit posters will holler
>>
>>355190
>AROOOOOOOOO! AROOOOOOOOOOOO! *whine*

Indeed they will.
>>
>>355188
>It's not unreasonable to believe that you are one of them.
I guess we'll have to go with insanity then.

>And you just keep hollering.
Literally the only purpose of the "hit dog will holler" argument is to claim that if somebody asserts something enough times he must be lying. This argument was retarded when other people made it and it's retarded when you make it.
>>
>>355193
Ok, this one went so far that it made me giggle
>>
>>355190
>>355193
>>355197
Max, we all know you're the hit dog shitposter who wont stop hollering. You cant deflect this, ever.

It is your destiny to holler. Until you kill yourself of course.
>>
>>355275
>n-no you!
Desperate.
>>
So what are these facts that Bernie checked?
Is this Huffington Post clickbait or what?
>>
>>355287
How about watching the video that was linked in the OP, retard?
>>
>>355288
How about that clickbait? Does Bernie say anything worth hearing?
>>
>>355290
No wonder you grew up retarded.
>>
>>355287

>“I hate to say this, but not everything Donald Trump said tonight was true or accurate,” Sanders said at the top of his speech after offering his congratulations to Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams, who delivered the Democratic rebuttal.
>In his response, Sanders noted that Trump did not mention climate change, Medicare, voter suppression or Social Security ― issues that the senator said all Americans, not just Trump’s “billionaire friends,” face.
Basically since Trump didn't bring up Bernie's pet issues, his statement is fact checked false
>>
>>355372
Climate change is far from a "pet issue" you fucking brainlet. Are you such a Trump sucker that you will defend anything just because he said it?
>>
We need people to save the earth, spread the word on Soilism.
>>>/pol/203048877
>>
>>352775
What if that person is on welfare?
>>
There is a reason that urban centers are the blue spots in even the reddest states. The more exposure you have the more things you find you have in common with people and it gets harder to hate them.

Food is a great unifier, I love food from all over the world, its at the heart of so many cultures, and through learning about a place's cuisine you learn about who they are as a people. More places need more immigrants cooking the dishes of their homelands and sharing their history with the people who come for a meal.
>>
>>356678
>There is a reason that urban centers are the blue spots in even the reddest states.
Highest concentration of welfare recipients
>>
>>356686
Any map of welfare states will confirm to you that this is not true.

Any time someone on the right brings up welfare I just post the map and they just start shaking in anger.
>>
>>356687
Now post the districts Sambo.
>>
>>356687
>Any time someone on the right brings up welfare I just post the map and they just start shaking in anger.
The map that shows Red States having high concentrations of welfare recipients- that also corresponds with the map that shows the highest concentrations of populations of black people in the exact same states?

Are you really denying that urban centers on average have more welfare recipients? By sheer population density this is overwhelmingly a fact.
>>
>>356690
Absolutely this
Sure maybe rural areas have a higher per capita rate of welfare, but shit, there are literally no jobs where they live
When you look at volume it's overwhelmingly urban areas
>>
>>352624

Swede here, what the fuck are you talking about? We have massive issues with permanently unemployed muslims leeching off of our system, and it will collapse any moment. There won't be any welfare or benefits here in 20-30 years after all the money has been drained.
>>
>>352612
>I'm interested in an objection, as well. Link?
I said to watch out for it in coming years, the problems are coming to a head right now and its going to be a few more years before some thinktank picks up the issue and runs with it for or against UBI
>>
>>356687
Does your map include farm subsidies as "welfare"
>>
>>354737
This is true. Its also true though that its pretty hard to convince all of the people who work for a living and have all of the taxes, profits, and finances that keep the world around them running taken directly out of their hard earned wage and then turn around and tell them that they can't have a rising standard, or creature comforts, or so on.

If you work, you deserve your bread and circuses. When the bread and circuses stop, we burn everything down and kill everybody.
That's the tacit agreement between us and the people who use us as tools to be much more successful.
>>
>>354841
The lie isn't the words the president said, but that he misrepresented what Northam said. Northam said a baby could be born alive and then "aborted." This is indisputable fact. Would you like a Daily Wire article with a word-for-word transcript of Northam's radio statement?
>>
>>355161
actually, a lot of people point to the berlin wall as proof that we should have a wall bordering mexico. just not in this particular exchange
>>
>>356691
>>356690
per capita is the more important statistic. if you go by pure volume, urban centers have the highest rate of everything, good and bad
>>
>>356678
you have never lived in a big city if you believe this. SF is a den of seething hatred. It's almost palpable when you step out into the fogs that blanket the city every morning. I've never lived in NY but from what i hear it's even worse, and that's not even getting into the shit-infested hellhole that is LA or the war zone that is Chicago.

no big city in the history of humanity has been good.
>>
>>355381
Are you such a Huffposter that you'll talk about what Trump didn't talk about to act like what Trump did say was a bunch of errors or lies again?
>>
>>357095
Dumbest post I've ever seen. "You've never lived in a big city if you believe this. Also I've never lived in these big cities but this is how they are."

Tell me, what rural bumfuck town do you live in that made you scared of people because the internet told you to be?
>>
>>357197
It sounded like he lived in SF I thought that was obvious from his post
I have also lived in SF and I agree with his assessment.
And as far as rural bumfuck towns go that's where im hoping to buy my next house, at least somewhere out of California
>>
>>357198
Yeah, nah. Fuck off.
>>
>>356686
Poor people don't vote lmao
>>
>>357528
If they did Republicans sure would be fucked.
>>
>>357564
>>357528
They don't vote because of Republican voter suppression.
>>
>>357103
Just about everything Trump says is a lie. You don't need to read Huffpost to see this, it's called common fucking sense.
>>
>>353549
Yo no hablo Inglés.
>>
>>357725
This isn't even correct Spanish you dumb Trumptard.
>>
>>357788
spaniard here
it's correct english, he even has the accents and all
The ''Yo'' gives him as an american, but it's perfectly correct
>>
>>357839
Doesn't Yo make it redundant?
>>
>>357840
it's unnecesary in a normal sentence, because the verb conjugation gives away the pronoun, but it's correct
saying the ''Yo'' can be used for emphasis, more like when you guys say ''do'' or ''I'' when it isn't needed for the same reason



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