>HDI 0-60: Everyone walks or rides a donkey>HDI 61-90: Everyone now wants a cage and "Man Utd" branded apparel>HDI 90+: Everyone wants to ride a bike or take mass transitHow do we mentally escape the "middle income trap", /n/?
>>1350800Build the infrastructure and the civilized society will followThe cage poisons the mind and turns members of the species into sociopathic killers
>>1350800No one "wants" to ride a bike/bus/donkey for basic daily transportation, it's just a matter of how aggressively hostile the ecofascists in charge of whatever third world eurocuck shithole you live in have decided to be to the very idea of cars. When you make driving/parking a financial and/or physical near-impossibility and ban every car that isn't a shitty electric soiwagon with a 3 foot wheelbase, most of the population will rationalize it and pretend they really preferred riding the subway all along.
>>1350800Go back to homogenous societies. This melting pot shit isn't working. If I knew the bus/train wasn't full of so-and-so's I'd consider taking it. But as for now, no, which is why "planners" favor economic coercion to force normal people into them
>>1350821>when the nominal cost of the cage accurately reflects the real world cost people will do what makes sense instead of building nightmare dystopias where you get arrested for walking between two adjacent stores because your cage remained in the wrong parking lot when you made a purchase 20 meters across the wrong lineRemind me of why you need endless handouts from the government? What did you contribute other than wars, broken bodies, suburban blight, ozone, and pm 2.5?
>>1350825>If I knew the bus/train wasn't full of so-and-so's I'd consider taking it. But as for now, no, which is why "planners" favor economic coercion to force normal people into themYes I too find it annoying to ride with smelly underachieving individuals, but that's life. Since I am not a racist, I can see a person from another race without losing the ability to behave myself. If only the same could be said of wh*teoids.
>>1350821That's some concentrated /pol/faggotry right there. You might be too far gone to save.
>>1350826>Remind me of why you need endless handouts from the government?Ironic coming from a transitfag
>>1350829>Yes I too find it annoying to ride with smelly underachieving individuals, but that's life.Spoken like someone who has truly given up on themselves and is just happy to take whatever balls-in-the-face he gets
>>1350838>efficiency is badI don't think you understand what the word irony means
>>1350839>seeing someone who looks different from you is like sexual assaultI can't even begin to understand, are you going to connect this to black penises somehow? Is all /pol/faggotry really just an extremely abstract sexual fantasy?
>>1350840>efficiencyCode for shove everyone in ant colony high rise apartments, then shove them into tubes to get to work, where they'll be shoved into little cubicles>>1350841You brought up black cock. I think it's you who fantasizes about them, not me
>>1350843>I was only pretending to be obsessed with random interracial sexual encountersYou talk about them at every opportunity though. There is no need to pretend, we're all anonymous here.
>>1350825And highway subsidies, cage subsidies, oil subsidies, suburban sprawl, structural racism against urban dwellers, isn’t economic coercion? Imagine if instead of spending trillions to invade sand countries to secure oil, the United States actually invested that money into 1st world infrastructure.
>>1350855>And highway subsidies, cage subsidies, oil subsidies, suburban sprawl, structural racism against urban dwellers, isn’t economic coercion?No>1st world infrastructureWe have that, it's the Interstate Highway System and our various airports. Your autism is why you desire trains, nothing more.
>>1350826t. too brainlet to read parking signs>>1350829>virtue signalling on an anonymous message boardWhat even is the point?>>1350839>brags about taking public transit>thinks other people are the ones desperate for stranger cock in their face
>>1350821>No one "wants" to ride a bike/bus/donkey for basic daily transportationTrue, people want ride comfy trains.
>>1350800>>HDI 90+: Everyone wants to ride a bike or take mass transitThat is HDI 0-60
>>1350800>HDI 0-60: Everyone walks or rides a donkey, or BSO>HDI 61-75: Everyone walk or rides a moped, or uses "muh public transport">HDI 76+: Everyone can afford a car and travel comfortable
>>1350965>HDI 90+: Everyone can grab an used Polo shitbox for >1000€. Cars lose thier novelty and stop being an indicator of wealth, people prefer real estate inna city instead of driving. People demand more public transport instead and walk more.
>>1350956>Japan is HDI 0-60
>>1350967This is what actually happensPeople in urban areas stop using their cars as an outlet for their wealth and instead put it into something that actually appreciates.
>>1350965its not comfortable anymore if everyone uses them.
>>1350985Yep.>>1350967>PoloNo. Skoda Felicia>>1351003No, it adds fun factor.
>>1351019>fun factorClearly you live in an undeveloped country if the roads are not a back-to-back 15-50kph crawl with all lanes stuffed through the whole day.
>>1351020>e not a back-to-back 15-50kph crawl with all lanes stuffed through the whole day>he doesn't do illegal stuff in traffic
>>1351020>the entire country is NYC and LAWhere I live, the worst rushhour traffic I ever experience is still <speed limit>-5. Next city over is a little worse but never goes anywhere close to full-California unless there's a lot of construction on the interstate or something. And if you live out in the country you can just floor it whenever you want and there's nothing in your way.
Why do flyovers think their opinions on traffic or cities are relevant?
>>1351117>coastcucksLOLEnjoy your 30 mile, 6 hour commute through gang territory.
>>1351115> if you live out in the countrywhat a strange way to spell "sprawl"
>>1351293>thinks suburbs are "the country"If you can't go at least 10 miles without a single stop sign or light or speed limit below 60, it's not "the country".
I know exactly how.We just keep building good urban infill projects.I think right now the development pipeline is bottlenecked because of zoning and pricing, so we need to reexamine our land use policy.Stuff like pic-related doesn't look amazing but it has a huge economic benefit to ourcities and has really made the back-to-the-city movement possible. If we keep complementing existing structure with more new development, we'll make biking/transit more and more feasible.
>>1350800don't fall for
>>1351450I know exactly what place that is and yeah, I wish they'd build more like it, because it's both reasonably nice and reasonably affordable. (Compared to other development in the area.) The only big problem is that it doesn't have a parking garage, which is the kiss of death in LA, but with more places like it and more transit infrastructure it'd be much more viable.
>>1350800Realize that cars are costly to own and operate and thus owning one is a liability most of the time. Literally. Cars are air conditioned traps to waste life inside of.
>>1350821>No one "wants" to ride a bike/bus/donkey for basic daily transportationIntresting. But whenever I am forced to ride bus, and get stuck in traffic, I wonder. "why did I get here"? I could enjoy riding a bike, but instead I am here, suffocating in an exhaust of hundreads of gallons of fuel being burned for no reason, looking at people enclosed in a cage of steel and plastic wasted for a pretense of comfort, getting nowhere, doing nothing.Cars have a very narrow scope of usage, and people abuse them to their own detriment. Especially now, when car-pooling services exist.Personal cars are the fast-food of transport. Feels good, tastes somewhat good, but being reliant on it kills you in the end.
>>1350821>this is your brain on gridlock
>>1350841you fucking doormat "balls-in-the-face" just means that you will take any abuse because you don't value yourself enough of at all. he is right about the niggers. a lot more people used to take the train to work where i live before we got culturally enriched. you brought your fetish/stockholm syndrome into this. stop.
It's astounding that anyone would prefer driving to living in a walkable town or city. I consider it proof they have never spent significant time in any place like this and are thus afraid of it. Iremember cities and dense towns being frightening and exhausting when I was younger. The sad fact is that most people on the west coast will never have access to a walkable area at all, and will never have any idea what they are missing or what they are talking about. A "city" on the west coast is unbearable unwalkable dense suburban sprawl and nothing more. It is truly terrible and a tragedy of massive proportions
>>1356731>I consider it proof they have never spent significant time in any place like this and are thus afraid of it.
>>1357015Which is almost the exact opposite of your /pol/ smuggie...
>>1356731Real city dweller here. Moscow, real concrete jungles. Have visited Europe (Spain-France (boarder), Croatia and Greece) and Santiago de Chile. All concrete jungles are the fucking same. All of them are synonym to traffic jam. All of them are synonym to cattle transport. All of them are synonyms to bad air quality. (well, Europe is a little bit better, but still).All cities eventually get overpopulated, and grow to sizes that kill walkability. Just forget about cities, they are meme. Future is in remote offices. 99.9% of people working shouldn't travel every day 40+ km to work, because it is pointless.
>>1350821>When you make driving/parking a financial and/or physical near-impossibility t. Amerilard from badiddlyboing ohio whose entire town was built around a strip mall in 1978
>>1350800>How do we mentally escape the "middle income trap", /n/?Wow. Just. Wow.You completely and totally take for granted everything that a robust middle class existing has given you. You want to throw it all away, and do what, precisely? Become one of The Poor? Homeless? Own nothing of value? Build value in nothing you own, to be more precise?>GOOD goy, GOOD goy! Let us Rich own all the Real Estate, cars, and other valuables, and just rent it all from us! Pay, pay, PAY for everything, cradle to grave! Never get ahead!Welcome to the New Feudalism, where The Rich are your Lords and Masters, and you scratch to survive -- assuming they *allow* you to survive and not take everything from you.That's what destroying the Middle Class will do to you: aside from what paltry '''savings''' you can put away (which gets wiped out by any little emergency that comes up) and what little '''retirement funds''' you accrue (which by the time you're old enough to actually use it, gets spent on doctors, and medicine, and surgeries to keep you alive, because you're so beat-up from working a low-paying shit job your entire life that your body is falling apart; only The Rich can afford to be healthy, after all!) you will have NOTHING to show for your life and the effort you put into it, the best you'll do is continue breathing and have nothing to show for it.Meanwhile your boss at your low-paying wage-slave job, and his boss, and so on up the ladder, they own cars, and at least one house, and maybe even managed to have some financial investments, and are not The Working Poor like (You) are. They are your Betters, they have 'mobility' (and I don't mean the physical kind), while you're stuck at the bottom for having thought that owning a car and a house, building a credit history, and *not* """renting""" everything was somehow smart *in the long term*.
>>1357328Face it: some of you kids were traumatized 12 years ago when the Recession hit the entire world, throwing everything into chaos, sparking all the Social Unrest, revolutions, migrant crises, and so on, and *now* you're under the false impression that owning a car, owning a house, are all some sort of scam to lock you into paying back a loan of hundreds of thousands of dollars after they somehow magically make your house worth *nothing*. Well guess what? ALL THAT WAS AN ANOMALY, THAT'S NOT HOW THINGS NORMALLY WORK. If you haven't noticed things have recovered, houses are worth money again, and owning one is and always has been a good idea and a goal to work towards.Owning a car gives you mobility, and I don't mean the physical kind, I mean *social mobility*, it shows you're a responsible enough person to own and maintain a vehicle, which is a good sign you're a responsible, mature person overall, and can be trusted with work more important and more complex than flipping burgers or running a cash register.Owning a house demonstrates that you're not a *transient*, that you're interested in sticking around and building an actual *life* for yourself somewhere, and therefore can be *trusted* with important things and important work responsibilities. The opposite of this is being someone who owns nothing more than what can fit in a """go bag""", ready to run out the door and disappear on a moments' notice. Put these two things together, along with more of an education than just a highschool diploma, and real companies will be willing to offer you real careers, not just wage-slave hourly-paid """jobs""" that anyone off the street can do.So how about you guys calm down and *think* about the future, and by 'future' I mean more than the next 24 hours, mmkay? Stop living in the constant state of terror you seem to be living in and actually *plan* for a future instead of just *reacting* to everything, mmkay?
>>1357328>>1357334No shit Millennials like myself are hesitant to take loans on making large long term "investments." Being 18 in 2008 showed me that the common person will get screwed over if the economy tanks again, leaving people with hundreds of thousands in debt while the bankers "too big to fail" will get away with it again. The government didn't help the people, they look at the people, said "fuck you" and bailed out the corporations who caused everything. Many of us got fucked over with debt, wage stagnation, and job availability that we learned to survive with nothing and we will continue to survive with nothing. We were forced to accept that it's a safer path than owning a depreciating asset like a car or a difficult to liquidate asset like property. That little "go bag" of ours wasn't something we wanted to have to live with but a necessity to survive in a world full of corrupt boomers and predatory x'ers.Owning a house or car doesn't mean shit. It's a dream sold to boomers who have no real family values outside of material ownership. All I want is to raise a happy family, a seemingly impossible task thanks to the fuckups on top rolling shit down the hill.
>>1357334>it shows you're a responsible enough person to own and maintain a vehicleThat would be true if, in your American dystopia, everyone and their mothers didn't own a vehicle.
>>1357036>Future is in remote offices. 99.9% of people working shouldn't travel every day 40+ km to work, because it is pointless.I truly agree. It would boost productivity without the exorbitant cost of constructing transit. Doesn't make the autists happy for that reason, so it's almost never discussed on /n/
>>1358904We're on a transportation board, of course we rarely discuss about things that are only tangentially related to tranportation
>>1358918/N/imbys want to reduce car use but only if it involves constructing trains they can ride for fun a few times a year (since they don't have jobs) instead of using existing infrastructure and curtailing the need for daily driving makes zero sense to me
>>1358944I want to reduce car use regardless of whether trains are built or not
>>1359230Better increase condom usage.
Smart real estate is the way to go.Build good urban infill projects and make urban neighborhoods desirable again.Good news: people are doing that. We've done an incredible amount of it in the last 10 years and come a long way. It just takes time.It took 70 years of subsidy and shitty public projects to create the car-dependent system we have now, it'll take take to correct that.
>>1359234Bad news: people don't really want live in urban areas. Only thing that is keeping them there is job.Good news: 99.9% of jobs could be remote, which will really decrease CO2 emissions, unlike concrete abominations with public transport.
>>1359234There's so many new projects going up in my city it's like a complete turnaround.It seems like when you build one nice apartment/mixed use building, more follow it in the same neighborhood.
>>1359244Remote jobs are the future, which doesn't require unpleasant experience like traffic jams, or cattle tin can.Just force employers legally to provide ability work at home.
>>1359254Cars create traffic jams. Suburban sprawl exacerbates traffic congestion in several ways.
>>1359264Think deeper. Traveling to job every day creates overcrowded tin can cattle transport and traffic jams.
>>1350821This, talking a bus or subway or any public transportation will always be shit comperd to personal transportation.
>>1357334>still pushing the car as a status symbol may-maySo this is the hill you chose to die on, huh? Meanwhile in reality there are toothless hicks that own 2-3 cars and multi millionaires that live in downtown chicago/nyc/tokyo/london who take the train daily
>>1351117It's their subconscious beyond seething that they're stuck in bumfuck nowhere with nothing to do and they cope by pretending to enjoy it and ridicule urbanites when what they really want is to live in the city as well
>>1359292Do you think those same millionaires don't own a car at all? Of course they do, very expensive ones.
>>1359245Yeah those new apartments marketed towards younger generations with nice apartments help an area. Trendy hipster meme shops pop up around the area some time later, leading to an increase in demand for the area, and more apartments are built. Soon bike lanes are built and usuable sidewalks too, leading to an overall better city
>>1359336OBSESSED>>1359341Gentrification by liberals is good
>>1350800Replace HDI with IQ and you get the same result/pattern.
>>1359337It's not 1935, grandpa. A millionaire is a middle class person who has a home in an area that isn't McMansion hell with a 3 car garage because life revolves around a carBoth my parents (divorced, separate incomes) are millionaires, my mom barely drives and my dad sold his 20 year old shitbox with 20k miles on it and rented out his parking space when they put another metro line closer to his place. They do not have yachts or private jets or butlers, because a million bucks means literally nothing, it's the bare minimum for living a reasonably stress-free existence. The word you wanted is "billionaire" and yeah those people have cars... for the help.
>>1359407You didn't answer my questionDo you think that the millionaires who live in London, Tokyo, NYC, etc. don't own cars?
>>1359409I answered it, you just didn't like the answer.
>>1359411You didn't. You just gave me an anecdote about your dopey parents
>>1359417Oh ok I'll just doxx everyone I know on 4chan to convince some flyover retard who thinks that big city millionaires all look and live like the Trump family, with statues of parrots having sex and lamborghinis full of golf equipment.
>>1359423Trump has sex on planes with his buddy Epstein. RIP in piss Trump Airliens.
>>1359436>spinning the situation this badBaka. His admin took down a notorious pedo and you're trying to claim he is in on it because they took a photo together once
>>1359444The only one in the admin they "took down" so far is Alex Acosta, but I'm sure there are more to follow. What distinguishes a decent human being from a Trump moron is that when someone from our side is implicated we turn our backs on that person and let them rot. You on the other hand will defend the rapist in chief until the endI've long since stopped being surprised at how brainwashed you people are, but this attempt at derailment will not workThe fact is cars are for poor third world countries
>>1359423I never implied that. If you're a millionaire, it is very likely you own at least one car. Those who don't are statistical outliers, and every group has those so why bother mentioning it.
>>1359453Nice goalpost move, but you asked about millionaires in London, Tokyo, and NYC"Millionaires" without extra qualifiers are a dime a dozen and most of them live in flyover shit holes or Chinese imitations of American suburbs where you can't get anywhere without a car
>>1359463I expect that Conan O'Brien is a millionaire by this point.he's said publicly that he takes the subway in Manhattan, that "it's the best way to get around the city."and he also rides bikes.so there.
>>1359489A millionaire is just a person whose net worth exceeds $1MM, he exceeded that very early in his career. And yes, any given subway train going through inner Brooklyn and the lower half of Manhattan has a bunch of millionaires in it.
>>1359463>Nice goalpost move>you asked about millionaires in London, Tokyo, and NYCNo, the person I was replying to was>>1359489>ConanPic related is you
>>1359492>I have no argument so I'll just post memes from the worst boardsOk, here's you. Also my dad can beat up ur dad neener neener
>>1359446>this will be the end of drumpf, says increasingly nervous manCringe>The fact is cars are for poor third world countriesI agree with this, which is why i come here. Not everyone that doesn't hate trump is a boomer neocon. Theres no logical reason to be against building better walkable communities, and no amount of "*" posting will change that.
>How do we mentally escape the "middle income trap", /n/?I'd say we are.All the time I see new luxury apartments opening up and reviving neighborhoods in my town, and I don't even live in a rich town. The market is showing a preference for non-car-dependency.
>>1350800>he thinks being """middle class""" is a trapSo you'd rather have an uncrossable gulf between The Working Poor and The Rich?>he wants a return to FeudalismSo do The Rich, son>GOOD GOY, give up your standard of living, refuse to actually own anything of Real Value like real estate, don't own a car, RENT EVERYTHING from *US*, so we can secure our wealth and you have nothing but what we give you!Idiot OP.
>>1359446>The fact is cars are for poor third world countriesAre you stupid? You must be.>he thinks LESS OVERALL MOBILITY is good somehowYou're falling right into the hands of The Rich, who want to strip you of your standard of living and make you and everyone who isn't The Rich into The Working Poor.>>1359746>The market is showing a preference for non-car-dependency.No it's not. """The Market""" doesn't give a shit if you own a car or not they just want you to RENT EVERYTHING and OWN NOTHING so they stay rich and you stay poor.
>>1359798>he thinks that the real estate market isn't the biggest scam in this country>he thinks that cars are a good way to build wealthis this really how poor people think?
>>1359798You've apparently never heard of a condo or townhouse.You need to be 18 to post here, read the rules.