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Can't build your way out of congestion edition.

Old thread: >>1294317
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>>1311468
>>1311467
And yet when people suggest alternatives like frequent, electrified regional/commuter rail and high speed rail, Americans call you a "communist".

Last time I checked, Japan wasn't communist, and neither is Europe.
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>>1311469
>>1311468
I believe this one is in China. Your point still stands.
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>>1311469
Japan is more or less a liberalized natty socialist state, and most of the good shit in Europeland was built by Hortler. Excellent rail service is anti-communist so it follows that the heavily compromised (((capitalist))) scum that infest this site and the US in general would be against it.
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Reminder. Japan is the only one to do urban planning and mass transit right.
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>>1311471
Make like a good little cocksucking Nazi and blow your brains out in a bunker.
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>>1311474
Yeah because flooding all your money into pointless infrastructure projects is a good thing. Because the yakuza wants more state money for construction projects. The dumb Japs are literally walling up their entire coastline to protect from tsunamis when it has shown that no matter how high you build them the water still gets over them since you can never prepare for a large tsunami. Imagine seeing some little city or village along the coast and never being able to see the sea again unless you climb up into the hills because that's what it will be like there when they build their 40ft (13m) sea wall. You weebshits are pathetic
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>>1311475
Sorry that you hate good infrastructure, cagie.
>>>/o/ is thataway
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>>1311485
Slit your wrists, you utterly syphilitic cunt. I vote for every transit bond that comes along.

Get fucking murdered. You'd be doing our species a favor.
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>>1311485
You could not have worse reading comprehension. No surprise coming from /pol/ trash.
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>>1311486
I doubt that. You sound like an angry cager, stuck in traffic.
>>1311488
Nice digits.
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>>1311474
WRONG.
United States conquered Japan and stayed there to show them how to do it right.
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2018 Hong Kong public transportation model share and daily ridership breakdown
Metro 5461K 42.4%
Tram 164.7K 1.3%
Franchise Bus 4054K 31.5%
Minibus 1810K 14.1%
Residential Bus 224.9K 1.7%
Metro Feeder Bus 139.8K 1.1%
Taxi 889.2K 6.9%
Ferry 127.3K 1.0%
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>>1311464
This is literally just a northern streetcar suburb.
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>>1311528
I'm assuming those tram figures include the Tuen Mun light rail? Otherwise that seems like a lot of patronage for just the HK island tram line considering it's paralleled by the MTR
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>>1311495
>military base
>comfort

I was stationed in Japan. The housing is small and old.
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>>1311530
The Tuen Mun Light Rail figure is included in the "Metro" entry.
According to another figure I have came across a while ago, the tram system on the Hong Kong Island have already lost about 50% passenger ridership after the metro Island line commerced operation a few decades ago
And just in case if you missed it, please note the decimal point's placement in different figures
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Reminder that urban planning is inherently autocratic which is why bugmen gravitate to it
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>>1311495
>r*ddit
You've got to go back
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>>1311495
Do you really wan't to live in that dense concrete hell on the right side? Ok. Go with it.

I choose the left side.
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>>1311618
Most structures on the right aren't concrete?
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>>1311618
Do you really think the left is nice happy quaint suburban wood-frame single family homes? It's an airbase.
Look at the scale, and the parking lots. You are choosing commie blocks because there's more grass visible from the air.
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>>1311529
Streetcar suburbs are the New Urbanist ideal. They have the human scale and green space that keeps people from activating their density disgust response, but the transit-oriented walkability that provides flexible mass transit options and vibrant street life.
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Could this have happened?
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>>1311635
>new
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>>1311471
>Japan is more or less a liberalized natty socialist state
Lol ok. Rail in japan expanded due to private rail looking for profit

>>1311474
>hk
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>>1311474
>Reminder. Japan is the only one to do urban planning and mass transit right.

indeed
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>>1311662
>not a single place in sight where you could ride a bike or even set foot
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>>1311669
Not a single place for MY car
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>>1311637
If only, every time I go to MX or Lima I wonder why we don’t have big plazas. People even think Time’s square is equivalent but it’s overrun by shops and gaudy-ness
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>>1311658
>hk
Look at latest transportation related policies in Hong Kong. They are designed with car drivers mentality.
Like how the Central Kowloon Route is now going to be constructed as a road instead of rail because it can benefit more people aka private vehicle drivers despite that mean the the route cannot be used to access Central Kowloon area and unable to alleviate congestion of amy lateral roads to levels with design capacity.
Or like how most public transportation vehicles, like public bus, minibus, private bus, even taxi have a quota system in place, yet there are no such system for private cars, and whenever a new bus service is proposed, bus companies are required to reduce other services in order to free up services for new routes, and then occasionally if a bus route have to be closed and a minibus operator want to take over the operation and rightsize the supply, the regulatory organization would argue that the service compete with other minibus service in the general area and thus disallow them to do so.
Also like how private bus operators have to comply with strict regulations, if a route they serve have high demand and the bus company add an extra unscheduled departure then it is a bannable offense, or if some routes they serve doesn't have enough demand and they decided to merge different routes together that's also a bannable offense where their route authority would be cancelled and their bus licenses can be revoked. Bear in mind the aforementioned quota system which mean those licenses can be more expensive than the bus itself. Also, if your private bus service become too popular then the government would make a new public bus route and cease the route authority from your hand and you can do nothing to stop them.
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>>1311658
>>1311703
And then you can also see how design of roads open in recent decades are all decided for direct point to point access on private vehicle and pretty much impossible to route public transportation routes into new roads with sufficient coverage in either end, and many new roads simply choose to ban some form of public transportation like red minibuses "because they're outdated"
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>>1311703
>Like how the Central Kowloon Route is now going to be constructed as a road instead of rail because it can benefit more people aka private vehicle drivers despite that mean the the route cannot be used to access Central Kowloon area and unable to alleviate congestion of amy lateral roads to levels with design capacity.
Seems to me you have zero idea on railway and road planning history.
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>>1311474
>urban planning
>>1311662
I raise you the wrongs they do.
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>>1311733
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>>1311736
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>>1311467
Moloch whose love is endless oil and stone! Moloch whose soul is electricity and banks! Moloch whose poverty is the specter of genius! Moloch whose fate is a cloud of sexless hydrogen! Moloch whose name is the Mind!
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>>1311689
well planned plazas are so rare, all urban planning seems thought on consumption and transportation and nobody seems to think about livability
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What are opinions on Camillo Sitte?
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>>1311724
My memory told me that I have read some official documents explaining why they ultimately decided to build a road instead of rail before, but now I am not sure
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>>1311669
Fuck off this is peak comfy, the places to walk or ride a bike are plentiful and where they need to be, as in not directly on the river but in the interstices of the buildings. Coming from southern Europe everytime I visit northern Europe or America it's always so fucking appalling having to walk 10 minutes just to get to the next building.
The saddest part is that my city's planners are more influenced more by degenerate westerners even when the original structure of the city is much closer to the japanese style rather than western sprawl.
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>>1311559
The fuck is a bugmen you dumbass meme spewer
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>>1311889
"small-souled bugman" implies that the person has been cut off from their cultural roots, and totally subsumed into consumerist neoliberal hive. they are totally lack any sort of sympathy for their ancestors folkways, higher spirituality, or passion. if they do engage in activities that are somewhat human, they still are heavily tinged by global capitalism. if they are a sports fan, they will participate heavily in fantasy sports (which is obsessed with statistics, 'scientific' analysis of performance). if they exercise, it will be all cardio, and tracked by fitbit and then uploaded to faceberg. tastes in food, art, music, movies are predetermined by review aggregator sites like yelp, metacritic or rotten tomatoes. political views only appeal to them if they seem 'rational,' and derived from the sort of conventional wisdom, economics influenced worldview seen in works like 'moneyball', nate silver's 538 blog, and 'freakonomics.'

more characteristics of bugmen: probably works in a fortune 500 corporate environment, at least has bachelors from decent flagship university, is the type of person that would buy amazon echo and still use it after a month, talks regularly about netflix and prestige cable shows like game of thrones to 'break the ice,' member of at least one subscription service like blue apron or birchbox, has strong opinions on craft beer. they engage in artisinal manhood where masculinity is defined by consumer choices (only SINGLE BLEND scotch whiskey, cigars, vintage safety razors.) think of obama on the few occasions when he would 'present masculine' (e.g. when he would go on ESPN to banter with sportscenter hosts about his march madness bracket.) an impenetrable milquetoast faggot who is totally empty once you remove the sum-total of his consumer choices, social signalling. petraeus and kushner are solid entries.
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>>1311895
Oh, so an onionsboy. Why did you have to come up with a different word for a sorghumboy?
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>>1311669
>imagine being a delusional bike fag
There are streets where you can ride your faggy little two wheel shitbike on the otherside of the buildings or railways you absolute mongoloid
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>>1311618
The left is mostly unlivable roads.
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>>1311531
>The housing is small and old.
Like all housing should be, as long as it's renovated. Small houses mean frugality, old houses mean quality.
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NIGGERS ARE FOR FAGGOTS
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>>1311965
Uh, ok?
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>>1311638
Check the capitalization. I'm not claiming streetcar suburbs are new, I'm saying they're explicitly held up as an ideal urban form by urban planners and architects identified under the New Urbanist planning philosophy, which seeks to make cities more liveable by focusing on pedestrian and transit links without compromising automotive access. Also New Urbanism is around 30 years old now so it's just a bad name in general. I think it's become such a widespread set of ideas that nowadays we'd just call it urbanism.
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>>1311464
Highways don't cause development. Highway interchanges cause development. If there's no way to access a highway, there's no motivation to build near it.
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>>1311733
This is pretty cool actually. Tokyo works because it builds the infrastructure it needs where it can.
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>>1311486
/pol/ speaks
/leftypol/ shrieks like they're at near death.

fuck right off to the appropriate board, the both of you.
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>>1311963
>quality

Every weekend is spent fixing something because the base won't, and it's too old to not be constantly crumbling.
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>>1311873
>decided to build a road instead of rail
They were never related, that's why
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>>1311984
I'm a fan of elevated roads. I don't mind more. Just don't have it over a river/canal in the middle.Put it on one side or both sides.
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>>1311982
Unless it's land speculating until a interchange is built. Happens relatively often in my state.
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>>1311980
>>1311635
I often look at this map of Chicagoland from 1934, before most expressways and airfields were constructed. The most dense areas outside the city limits are towns situated near the rail line. To this day, most of those towns are dense and walkable. That density travels 35 miles outside the city to the satellite cities, and yet everything away from rail lines is forest and agriculture.

This is my favorite map. It shows a huge metropolitan area right before the dawn of the automotive age. Just look at the text box titled "Every Road Less Than 40 Feet Wide Is a Menace to Human Life". The Chicago Tribune drew this map to advocate for the widening of all major streets to at least 40 feet in the name of public safety.

I had to shrink the image. The full size image is here:
https://imgur.com/tz5yYWZ
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>>1311982
>no highway ever has led to increased real estate prices
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>>1311895
>probably works in a fortune 500 corporate environment, at least has bachelors from decent flagship university,
Sounds like sucess
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>>1312018
>I'm a fan of elevated roads.
Go to Rome even once.
You'll revise your position in no time.

Seriously, those fugly roads are what stuck in my head more than all the historic monuments.
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>>1312032
That map's pretty interesting, you've got any more like that?
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>>1311464
desu i thought this was cities skylines at first
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>>1312189
I should clarify: I like elevated roads, but I love overpasses more than viaducts.
Any particular examples? I have seen lots of ugly ones elsewhere, doesn't stop me from appreciating useful ones. As a fan of Japan, I dislike quite a lot there as well.
>more than all the historic monuments.
If nothing, there's an at-grade section of Hanshin Expressway No.13 Higashi-Osaka Route in front of the Naniwanomiya park to preseve the landscape. Sometimes they did try little bit, obviously not enough overall.
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>>1311474
>Japan
What an odd way to spell "Switzerland"
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>>1312032
I live in the north suburbs, the older towns along the Metra lines literally look like OP’s pic.
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The DC area desperately needs another bridge or three across the Potomac river. There were several accidents on bridges in this area that fucked up the entire region. The problem though is the rich NIMBY fuck that are holding up progress.
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>>1311471
>Excellent rail service is anti-communist

What are you on about? A centralised authority owning and planning out the means of transportation without anyone individually owning their own vehicle is ANTI-communist?
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>>1312224
Check out Hunts Point in the Bronx, NY. The area underneath the monstrosity of elevated highways is always quite grim, it's a mess over there.
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>>1311474
This.
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>>1311495
That's a military base, so those are more akin to commie blocks than suburbs.
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>>1312319
>The problem though is the rich NIMBY

NNNNNNNNNNNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBBBBBBYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYsssssssssssssssss
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>>1312250
Too much dislike for cars. Japan isn't specifically penalizing car ownership like yuropoors. They just make cars pay for the limited land use.
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>>1312367
Truth is truth.
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>>1311468
That's the approach to a toll plaza during the busiest holiday of the year. Fake news.
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>>1311469
Public transportation only works in ethnostates like Korea or Japan. The black and brown undertow makes it unusable in diverse cities.
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>>1312192
I found it here, though that is the only map that goes out to the suburbs.
http://www.chicagoinmaps.com/historicmaps.html
I'm sure they exist for other cities. Just search "historical maps [city]"
>>1312312
I thought towns like Highland Park along the UP-North line are pretty dense, at least near the train stop. Of course they sprawl beyond downtown. That's exactly how Naperville is; a dense, very walkable downtown surrounded by endless sprawl.
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>>1312437
Which is very fair and efficient
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>>1312470
Thanks dude
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>>1312468
>unusable
like, what exactly makes it unusable? i used public transport in some of the most diverse cities. guess i'm not a sensitive little cagelet coddled up in his nicely padded CUV?
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>>1311464
Looks like something I'd build in C:S
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I am not against cars, just think they should be paying the fair price for the luxury. All the extra space to acommodate car ownership should come from car owners or people interested in the its usage (like a business that deliberately uses some of it's private land to parking to attract costumers). But everyone who doesn't drive should not need to pay for it.

So end parking minimums. End all forms of mandatory car centric infrastructure in developments, and toll acess to urban areas. Make car owners prove they have parking space before buying.

Besides, it's much easier to have good traffic when fewer people drive daily.
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>>1312494
Listen up fringie. Public transport needs people using it to actually be profitable. People have choices. When a certain segment of the population that has a reputation for shitting up the system reaches a critical mass, Whites quit using it. And bus systems raise their prices to compensate. Where I live, it costs five fucking dollars for a day pass for the privilege of waiting 20 minutes, boarding a vandalized bus, getting stuck in traffic, ans arriving to work an hour late.
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>>1311528
Compare
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>>1312695
>day pass
Why, if you are just commuting
>waiting 20 minutes, boarding a vandalized bus, getting stuck in traffic, ans arriving to work an hour late.
This is what would happen when the bus system isn't properly maintained
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>>1312695
>it costs five fucking dollars for a day pass for the privilege of waiting 20 minutes, boarding a vandalized bus, getting stuck in traffic, ans arriving to work an hour late
All of those things have to do with bad planning, and nothing with the users. Vandalism is a problem everywhere (pic related in rural eastern germany) and can but fixed by improving security and maintenance intervals.
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>>1312081
When Gregor Samsa awesome or to find himself transformed into a hideous insect the first thought in his mind was that he hoped he could make it to work on time
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>>1312718
strawman
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>>1312695
news flash: the quality of urban planning is not measured by the degree it accommodates wh*toid cagelets.
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>>1311471
>most of the good shit in Europeland was built by Hortler
Are you retarded?
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>>1312835
there's an entire generation of polbabbies that happily fed up and now regurgitate stuff that.
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>>1312476
>fair and efficient
But then NOT EVERYONE has the ability to have a car at his disposal.
Think about that for a second: Father, mother and child would have to use the SAME car. Insanity!

>>1312437
Are we talking about the same Europe?
The Europe that killed trams all over the place in the late 50s and early 60s to make room for cars?
Europe LOVES cars, and highly subsidizes them.
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>>1312889
Europe is banning cars from cities now
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>>1312906
>Europe is banning cars from cities now
Only some Diesel cars, the ban areas are negligibly small, and there is an exception for everyone.
Politicians are doing everything to keep the DPM and NOX emissions within towns up. Don't worry.
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>>1312718
The independent 50 yr old baker in my neighborhood prolly worries about getting to work in time as well, as does everyone who isn't a manchild
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>>1312323
"Making the trains run on time" is the one good thing most people ever credit to a fascist leader.
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>Certain Chinese city will build a single track maglev system
What's the point?
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>>1311559
>bugman
>autocracy
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>>1312437
>Japan isn't specifically penalizing car ownership like yuropoors
You literally can not own a car if you can't afford a parking spot in Tokyo.
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>>1313230
Low speed maglev has some neat perks over regular rail: It can take slopes far better, accelerates faster and needs less mainetance. Also, no overhead wires.

Also, the chinese love futuristic tech stuff for prestige reasons
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>>1313317
This isn't penalizing, this is ensuring the car owners will not block the streets (which don't have public parking space). Most houses have at least one spot anyway
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And Malaysia renewed its East Coast Rail Line project contract with China, cutting the cost by reducing the standard used to build the rail line. According to earlier rumors the line will probably be downgraded to be a single track line instead of dual track.
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>>1313327
How is this not penalization, but paying for entering the city centre is? I might not understand you properly here.
Chairs.
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>>1313317
>>1313330
>You must have a space to put ypur own car in, in order to own a car
>THIS IS PENALTY! UNFAIR! WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PUT OUR CARS WHEREVER WE WANT WITHOUT HAVING OUR OWN PARKING SPOT!
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>>1313331
Not like I said this.
Also:
>You must pay the toll in order to enter a part of a city that is unfit to handle the heavy traffic
>THIS IS PENALTY! UNFAIR! WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DRIVE OUR CARS WHEREVER WE WANT WITHOUT HAVING ANY KIND OF REFLECTION ABOUT CONSEQUENCES! WHY IS EVERYTHING SO CONGESTED LET ME THRUUUUUU!
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>>1313336
I've never said anything about urban core entry toll in this thread
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>>1311464
you forgot one child policy
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>>1313230
To make their glassy heart shine.
Ok seriously, their steel-on-steel linear motor railway systems are Bombardier and KHI techs, the former also claiming all rubber-tyred guideways. They mogjt not have successfully copied them. There's no much alternative modes other than their Transrapid-based EMS maglev and the Hitachi-based straddle-beam monorail.

>>1313320
>Low speed maglev has some neat perks over regular rail
Yeah, cuz that's useful compared to rubber-tyred.
>Also, no overhead wires.
Yeah, third rail isn't a thing.
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>>1313393
* One problem with the PRC is despite their extensive mainline and HSR network, they can't work out the commuterization and shift towards rapid transit in mainline rail. The paradigm is still last century intercity and regional shit. Coupled with their nationalism and cronyism, they have produced a whole array of incompatible systems, like all these alternative techs, and abysmally long suburban metro lines. I believe for example Beijing Metro has floated ideas of incoporating the nationally-operated mainline suburban network into their administration.
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>>1313398
>Commuterization of conventional rail
>When security check make it become a possibility that you need to wait for an hour or even more before you can enter the subway system just like in Guangzhou recently
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>>1313401
See they are a chain of crap piling on top of each other. When you can't even do the simple metro well (let alone APMs, airport rail links, light rail), mainline will most likely be suffering too.
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>>1313407
>* >>1313402
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>>1312323
>A centralised authority owning and planning out the means of transportation
AKA, not Japan. Ever since the breakup of JNR, Japan's railways have been megacorp culture turned up to 11, and far as I care, it worked wonders for them. The thing is that, there, if five different companies want to build their own metro tunnels in the same corridor, they can and will do it and they'll get the permits faster than it takes any equivalent western transport authority to complete just the studies.
There are very few centralized authorities out there that can be remotely called competent.
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>>1313398
>I believe for example Beijing Metro has floated ideas of incoporating the nationally-operated mainline suburban network into their administration.
Oh and Guangdong have officially announced that they will transfer the operation right of most of their intercity railway currently operated by National Railway company to Guangzhou Metro for them to administer, operate and manage.
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>>1313330
You're right, both are fair.
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>>1312323
Ah yes, Switzerland, a fascist nation with a government-owned rail network that runs perfectly on time.
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>>1311528
>127k use the ferry daily
Fuck me that's impressive.
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>>1313317
Well, in Europe people are forced to have a parking spot, even if they don't have a car.
They are paying for it through rent or being forced to create one on their property.
The Japanese way of handling that seems much more reasonable.
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>>1313468
>it worked wonders for them
>them
You mean East, Central and West.
The rest (Shikoku, Kyuushuu, Hokkaidou) is deep in the reds.
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>>1313520
Lol actual Swissposters bitch about their trains being late on /n/
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>>1313531
Kyuushu is now a profitable listed company
As for the other two, they're still managing their losses like a failing company instead of saving all of them without cost consideration
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>>1311467
>Oedipa resolved to pull in at the next motel she saw, however ugly, stillness and four walls having at some point become preferable to this illusion of speed, freedom, wind in your hair, unreeling landscape - it wasn't. What the road really was, she fancied, was this hypodermic needle, inserted somewhere ahead into the vein of a freeway...

How do we kill the idea that cars = freedom? For a trivially false statement, it's bizarrely popular. Railways and bike paths are state interference bordering on communism, yet roads are somehow exempt from this line of thinking.
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>>1314873
How dishonest

You choose your destination, schedule, route, and vehicle with roads. Can't do that with a train, idiot
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You can hop at a train and be free to read or sleep and then you're at your destination, plus you don't worry about parking, maintenance or traffic. Pretty free
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>>1314876
You can choose all that with public transport every bit as much as you do with a car, if not moreso.
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>>1314876
I hate when I get on a train and it suddenly throws me into another train that goes to Moscow against my will
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>>1314982
Absolutely untrue.


>>1315009
I hate it when you make a strawman argument
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>>1311467
Ain't that beautiful Polish flag display.
Never thought LA was this patriotic for my country.
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I've been reading a bit about the Prince of Wales recently. Pretty cool guy it seems
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>>1315046
>Absolutely untrue.
I am really sorry for the Americans that cannot experience the convenience of public transportation
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>>1315046
Not a strawman. You choose your destination, schedule, vehicle and if it interests you, route, by choosing which train you get on.
You don't suddenly end up somewhere else.
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>>1315056
Poland can into traffic space
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>>1311467
do the colours switch if you turn the camera 180?
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>>1315206
I used to use public transportation and gladly gave it up to use a car. Would never use it again until they solve the feral youth problem


>>1315210
Public transportation doesn't come anywhere near me and I'm not a turboautist for buses/trains. So the car it is
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>>1315336
>Feral youth problem
You should fix your country first before talking about transportation
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suburb in Hong Kong vs Shenzhen
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>>1315528
Which side of the border is that taken from? As far as I'm aware there really isn't such thing as a suburb in Hong Kong.
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>>1315540
Hong Kong side of the border
The picture was taken from Fairview Garden.
There are also other similar settlements near the place.
And if you relax the definition for suburb a bit, then you would find that many traditional villages in Hong Kong have transformed into something similar to suburb.
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>>1315527
Build the wall
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>>1315545
Black youth are not from the other side of your imaginary wall
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>>1312718
LMAO
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>>1315551
Mexicans are
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>>1315609
Mexican buses put US bus transit to shame, despite both of their own brands of dysfunction
>>
Do any of you here actually work in urban planning? What are the job prospects like for it?
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>>1315913
i work in the urban planning unit department of a ministry on the state level in germany. the most planning we do revolves around picking lunch places.

job prospects depend on where you live and what your qualifications are.
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>>1311464
I have no idea who Lewis Mumford is and why I should take him seriously. For all I know he's some random crackpot who happened to make a lucky guess.
>>
>>1315540
Palm Springs and Royal Palms are next to Fairview Harden.
Here's the other major house-sprawling suburb community on the east side.
There are many low-profile rural and suburban type villages scattered around, some in the city proper new towns of Tsuen Wan - Kwai Chung - Tsing Yi and Kwun Tong. The extended city area of Shatin have quite a few, and they are basically hidden in Tseung Kwan O.
>>
>>1311464
Urban planning is joke, I don't get why it's a field in it's own right. I only respect urban planners if they've done an undergrad in civil engineering because it shows they can actually take a load. Civil engineers are superior to urban planners in every way and more
>>
>>1316195
hella inferiority complex right there
>>
>>1316153
Is there ANY actual discussion in the ministry regarding autonomous cars and their effects on urban planning?
Like reducing the number of required parking spots per square meter? Obviously NOT now, but in the foreseeable future.

I'm in CS, and had discussions with civil engineers on that topic, and it doesn't seem to be a real topic at German colleges at all.
They don't appear to even think it will happen.
>>
>>1316200
Thats an administrative issue, and has pretty much nothing to do with civil engineering. A good seminar about urban policies or sustainable transportiation system should adrees that issue though.
>>
>>1316225
>has pretty much nothing to do with civil engineering

I have attended a civil engineering lecture that spent about 4 hours on the topic of parking lots.
>>
>>1316200
What about increased traffic?
>>
>>1315528
it fairly well screams "drainage problems" and "flooded basements"
>>
Exactly why China decided to make this detour near the Xingguo county when they decided to build this new high speed inter city railway between Nanchang, Ji'an, and Ganzhou?
>>
>>1316200
>Like reducing the number of required parking spots per square meter? Obviously NOT now, but in the foreseeable future.
Why? If anything people will only going to buy more cars
>>
>>1316234
My uni has a separate track for transportation engineering, so civil engineers rarely attend transport-related courses.
>>
>>1316264
People will own less cars. Mobility-as-a-service will become big.
That's also finally the way you can seamlessly introduce cars that use electricity to run on a larger scale, because the computer will take care of the battery always being filled up when it needs to be. No human will need to waste brain time on that, except for the overall system setup.
Who you will need is janitors that check a car after each use.

You take out your mobile, tell a service where you want to go, a car will come to pick you up, and drop you off at your destination. Although I'd prefer, if this had some sort of public transport integration. The car could drop you off at the nearest station, you take the train towards your destination, and then get in a car again for the last few meters. This would reduce the range required from the battery, while also slashing CO2 emission that largely occur on highways these days and are the most decisive contributor in current statistics.
>>
>>1316269
At my uni civil engineers get to pick their focus.
One of them is transportation.
>>
>>1316238
As far as I know, there are no serious flooding in the settlement in the past 50 years, unlike some nearby area that have been flooded a number of times in 1980s and 1990s before government intervention, because the settlement have its own drainage system that's better than the public one
>>1316234
To know how tp manage a water supply network you doesn't need to know how to build pipes. Same for urban planning
>>
>>1316274
>To know how tp manage a water supply network you doesn't need to know how to build pipes. Same for urban planning
Your analogy is off the mark.
You absolutely need to know how to structure a pipe network for that.

You don't need to know how to build a parking spot (although it absolutely wouldn't hurt), but you need to know where to place them, how to dimension them and how many of them are required.
>>
>>1316279
I don't think you need to know how to make a pipe out of a piece of plastic in order to manage water supply network.
>>
>>1316256
That's a very specific question, but judging by the map I suspect that the ground in the river valley may be unsuitable for railway construction, in that particular area at least. That would also explain the lack of settlements along the river between the two cities in the south.
>>
Is cities skylines a good game for larping your shithole utopia
>>
>>1316291
Seems like there is a water reservoir in the river that make it inappropriate to construct a rail near it
But then how about following the alignment of the road on the west of Wan'an county?
Most information I could find on Chinese forum said that was because the Xingguo county helped communist party a lot in the 1930s when they were fighting against the government at the time so the detour was specifically made to express gratitude on their contribution but that seems like bullshit
>>
>>1312714
>not a single scrap of litter in the entire photo
Is this real? Did they clean the area before photographing it?
>>1312494
>>1312468
I've used public transit in numerous cities coast to coast and in between and have never had an issue. if it's that scary just legalize concealed carry or do what the criminals do and carry regardless of legality. not like a cop is going to randomly stop and frisk a white man reading a book on a train. if a negro is fucking with you every time you leave your cagie you must look like a knock-kneed $0yboi. i've never had darkies give me any issues.
>>
>>1315913
Read my post here [>>1313136].
Short answer, competitive field and may require advanced education. You may not live where you want to for your first few years.
>>
>>1316234
>>1316225
In the United States that issue kind of balances between the two fields. Forecasting travel demand is mostly an engineer thing with some planners doing it too. Parking requirements for new buildings (eg 1 parking space for every housing unit) is almost exclusively an urban planner focus.
>>
>>1316307
It's a fun game for a bit but the gameplay cycle is a little simplistic, there's essentially no inter-district interaction to make growth a challenge
>>
>>1316238
Nope, it's facing a wetland. The historic floodings occur in the valley / river basin behind. More drainage channels have been built, as a side benefit converting construction access to new riverside roads for local villages.
>>
>>1311733
At least they left the median open.
>>
>>1312250
That train station is as bad as a freeway.
>>
>>1316516
Maybe so in terms of space and dividing the city, but at least train stations have better pedestrian amenity than freeways.
>>
>>1311669
good
>>
>>1312437
>>1313330
>>1313331
>>1313336
I figure the more entiteld of you is from the US, the land of subsidized parking. That's precisely what 'on street parking' is.

That's also part of the reason why US cities aren't more dense--even a 'side street' is really a four-lane road, cutting through a neighborhood.


>>1315215
Then it's just an Indonensian flag ... or Monégasque.
>>
>>1316516
No it's not.
>>
>>1312329
Heh, an issue with elevated roads is that they need more maintenance, so often they get torn down, and at-grade or sunken freeways stick around longer.
Excuse my ignorance or armchair planning ideas, and I know some would say do both, but at this moment I would like to see the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway reprovisioned (viaducts rebuilt, or buried/tunneled if it's not too expensive) in some capacity to instead downgrade FDR Drive and convert it to something better. (Same about Gowanus Expy with the Belt Parkway)
I would rather keep Bruckner Expy as it, and do something about all the other nearby routes.
Elsewhere, under-viaduct space can theoretically be revitalized.
>>
>>1316516
A train station is inherently more beneificial and less costly than a freeway.
>>
>>1316200
>Is there ANY actual discussion in the ministry regarding autonomous cars and their effects on urban planning?
informally over cups of coffee, sure. but we are regular grunts; public administration does not push policies of their own accord.

research and development happens at universities and colleges, think tanks, private institutions, company R&D departments. the results are fed into the general discourse, aggregated by the press and by lobbying groups. it's a highly convoluted process, and if you really want to pinpoint where "the decision" is made, you would not be wrong to look at the bundestag panel sessions.

germany is a highly pluralist society with tons of actors on all sorts of intermediary stages, all interwoven and interdependent. it's by design. the idea behind it is that once some sort of consensus or at least a solid majority view on an idea is formed, the political level can pick it up, ruminate on it, pass it through the public administration machine, and finally pass it as a law. again, it's highly convoluted, it takes forever, but the implementation is quick and easy. beats quick policymaking met with huge resistance after the fact IMHO.

as for autonomous driving and urban planning, one of the louder voices in the discourse is the fraunhofer IRB institute along with a couple of university chairs. the discourse is happening, but it's still not anywhere near real breakthroughs.
>>
>>1316895
>inherently
No. To be so it need to actually be used
>>
>>1311662
this is comfy
>>
>>1316913
>aggregated by the press and by lobbying groups
So on the one hand people that have no idea what they are talking about (At times it's fucking painful to read press articles on IT. Is that any different for urban planning?), and on the other hand groups with special, personal interests that may very well be opposite to what would maximize benefit for the public.
Directly ask the scientists. Seriously. Cut out the middle-man. You have been "playing" Stille Post there.

>bundestag panel sessions
I think I'm getting depressed. MdBs are the least qualified people for that in the entirety of Germany.
>>
>>1311495
its a military base and the retarded redditor compares it to suburbs
>>
>>1316195
I have to agree, and I have a BS in urban planning
>>
>>1317541
>Directly ask the scientists.
that is what happens in the bundestag panel sessions. maybe i was not sufficiently clear, but one thing is the general discourse, and another one the political process. they feed into each other but are not the same. the panel members invite various experts, chiefly among them scientists in the given fields, and ask for their input, comments, and reports.

>MdBs are the least qualified people for that in the entirety of Germany.
that is not necessarily true. the incessant bitching, yapping, and moaning about politicians is a bit of a default mode for the uninformed parts of the populace. it must be said that most MdBs only have one field they specialize in, but when they do, when they do it over years, they're good at it. take matthias gastel and his focus on (railway) transportation, highly respected both in the political field and beyond. not my party preference, by the way.

also: politicians have staff, and both they and their MdBs have access to the scientific services (wissenschaftliche dienste) of the bundestag. the services are elite at what they do.

by the way, the least qualified MdBs by far are from the AfD. it's not even a badly kept secret anymore.

but i don't want to suggest that aspects of urban planning are generally decided on the federal level. the matter of urban planning is still chiefly negotiatated on the state and municipality levels. while the state level can regulate the legal framework (including certain stipulations), the actual execution happens in the towns and cities. the #1 condition for quality in local urban planning is having a capable local building authority, solid decision makers and an inspired city council.
>>
>>1317878
>by the way, the least qualified MdBs by far are from the AfD.
Don't worry, I'm not from that camp.
The AfD is hardly different from CDU/SPD. Voting for them won't change anything.
Any vote outside those "big" three is good. Although the Greens and the Left would probably love to kill free speech and expand the surveillance state, if it gives them hope to get rid of "hate speech". And the Liberals are a joke (and unlike back with Westerwelle and Möllemann, you can't even laugh about it). Each and everyone of them is better than CDU/SPD/AfD, though.
Too bad the Pirates had that sexual assault incident with their #2, otherwise I'd advertise for them. Reda has done a great job for the last few years. Would have loved to see that continued (with more people).

>the matter of urban planning is still chiefly negotiatated on the state and municipality levels
I might be remembering something wrongly there, but isn't there a level between Land and Kommune when it comes to urban planning? Namely the Regierungsbezirke?
And the lectures I have attended were full with guide lines, recommendations, and laws from the federal level.
The planning (obviously?) happens at the level corresponding to the scope, but the framework for that is set up many layers above.
>>
>>1316362
>being this surprised a station is litter free
holy shit America is fucked
>>
>>1315120
good lad
>>
>>1318932
There's trash everywhere here, honest to god. I've never seen such a clean place before in my life. even in the middle of nowhere the ground is covered in litter.
>>
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What's the use of all these turning circles between buildings in the Ming Wah Dai Ha residential area reconstruction plans that didn't exists before reconstruction?
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>>1318990
Diagrams comparing before and after
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>>1318990
>>1318991
They're pretty convenient for slowing traffic down in general. If they want to provide a lot of parking but still maintain a nice residential area, then having cars go slowly to allow for safe walking makes sense.

At least that's how I see it.
>>
>>1319002
>>1318991
>>1318990
I figured they were for loading and unloading.
>>
>>1319177
Well it do say so on the diagram, but why not just build them near the road like the leftmost (12) instead of extending them all the way into the center? That would save hella lot of space, or at least they could have added more park space into the area
>>1319002
There are underground car park in this redevelopment project.
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>>1318990
>turning circles
They are primarily traffic calming circular islands. Note the crosswalk across the center.

>>1319265
>There are underground car park in this redevelopment project.
Read the god damn diagram. They lead to it.
Or do you need a lesson in how to provide ramps of suitable gradient?
>>
>>1319272
The first and third turning circle (count from left) didn't lead to underground carpark entrance. And even for the second and third turning circle, they can be routes without using turning circles
>>
>>1311468
why do you think there are only 4 lanes going the other way?
>fringie foams at the mouth and has an aneurysm
>>
>>1319597
>fringie foams at the mouth and has an aneurysm
what does this even mean?
>>
>>1319265
Yeah, the lead-in to the garages should still be slow for safe walking. I'm just saying that the roundabouts are for that purpose as cars make their way to parking.
>>
>>1320160
If traffic speed is the concern then they could have dropped the speed of the road in front of the development project to something like 25 instead. It's not like there are any through traffic along the road other than four buses per hour per direction
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>>1320278
I still don't think there's anything wrong with the roundabouts honestly. Maybe they're to prevent excessive speeding, who knows. Maybe you're right though. I'm not an expert on this stuff, and again, it's just my thoughts on it.
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>>1319597
What has the amount of lanes in one direction got to do with anything?
>>
3 way intersections are better
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>>1311733
Honestly, I can't find fault in this. The bridge still looks good, and you get contrast. Is it perfect? No, but what is more important is the free flow of travel.
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>>1321013
not better than a 3 way rotary
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>>1321162
Rotaries are good but unecessary, they use too much space and are bad for pedestrians
>>
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A local suburb redesigned a street in preparation to connect the old small downtown to a future light rail station. It looks pretty nice with the addition of an off street bike path, more greenery, less parking etc. You can explore it at the link below. Neat example of a 1900s small town turned suburb adapting to the presence of urban development.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9223519,-93.410232,3a,75y,346.47h,77.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5MwSmIUtLrFAD0ZV8dGrQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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>>1321766
IT'S NOTHING BUT A TUBE
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>>1321590
>they use too much space and are bad for pedestrians
If you've got lots of space and money, everything else can be solved, by building bridges or tunnels so that everything is free flowing without being horrible for non-motorized users.
Reality is usually constrained in one or both of those things though. Rotaries are one way to compromise.
>>
>>1311464
Look look, no okay uh.. look see... if we... uh you know like get rid of all the... uh mm cars right see? You just get rid of them and then um.. yeah like roads... so you uh.. no more traffic.
Simple really.

"Adding highways to deal with congestion is like loosening your belt to cure obesity.'
I'm not fucking trying to cure obesity by loosening my belt you stupid fuck, I'm trying to put my fucking pants on.
>>
>>1322294
>I don't care that I'm a morbidly fat fuck who's going to iminently die so long as I can squeeze my blubbery cager bulk into my wal mart jeans

cager life
>>
>>1312926
If he's independent, baking is his passion, so he's not "worried" about it.
>>
>>1321766
>that disgusting nu-concrete that shines with the light of a thousand suns

God damnit, why?
>>
>>1322329
He worries he will not be early enough to enjoy his baking passion
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>>1322292
Bit if you don't have the space and the money and care about pedestrians not having to go around the rotary, a three way interection is much better than a 4 way one
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>>1322329
>Serving your customers is merely a duty
No wonder western society have fallen this far compare to other civilization
>>
Bugmen is just a strawman argument that cagers use so they don't have to adress the logical faults of their arguments
>>
>>1323144
It's as valid as dismissing arguments from others because they're 'cagers'

Fucking fringie
>>
>>1323312
t.cagie
>>
>>1312691
I went to Toronto recently, right downtown, and I spoke to some people who were selling bicycles on kijiji. And all 3 people said they don't have cars and commute by bike/bus/rail etc.

Driving around down there I can see why. There were a ton of cyclists there. The people that are actually living there don't need cars, but the people that don't do. So roads in that case are built for mostly for regional traffic, not for the actual citizens. So I 100% agree that urban areas should be tolled.

Ideally when you enter a city you should have to park somewhere and have to bike/bus/ride your way into and around town. In Toronto for example, they could have parking stations along the 401 where regional commuters and visitors can pull off the highway, park, and catch a bus into the downtown core, or ride one of those shared bicycles around. Even from the 401 to the heart of downtown is only 12-15km -- an easily bike-able distance. You get some exercise, and avoid the hassle of driving in downtown Toronto which is quite stressful desu.

I can't stop thinking about that trip to Toronto. I'm not a city person by any stretch but I actually thought I could really enjoy living there (assuming I could afford it). Quite a charming place despite what /pol/ would have you believe.
>>
Hot take: Gentrification improves communities.


>>1323312
lmao @ this cagelet
>>
>>1311464
cars in cities should be considered like wearing your shoes in the house
>>
>>1323315
>>1323458
>>1323461

Fringies REELING
>>
what's the smallest minimum area of a town or city that you could urban plan that would make a noticeable difference
>>
>>1323458
It does but the continuing improvements price out the original gentrifiers. Just take a look at DC. Now its pretty much impossible to find a 3br2ba house for under 350k that doesn't need work done on it. Even the homes in the hood sell for $450k there.
>>
>>1323461
Appropriate analogy

>>1323458
True, but often just pushes the problems to other places. Still it is a net gain, especially when the region gentrified is closer to downtown areas
>>
>>1323344
If that is the case, regional rail would be a more transit friendly solution to city outsiders. Do that and integrate buses and you have a valid solution to regional travelers

I agree that most cities really need more tolling though
>>
>>1311464
the solution to traffic is fully automated cars, or at least partial automation through intersections.
>>
>>1323458
It does. Why have unemployed darkies taking up valuable inner city real estate that would have a 10 minute commute? Kick the darkies out to the suburbs, retake the cities.
>>1323717
The solution to traffic is FUCKING WALKABLE CITIES WITH RAIL BASED MASS TRANSIT.
>what if we took the cages
>but made them fancy
does NOT eliminate the fucking cages.
>>
>>1323728
the cages not flowing ideally is the source of traffic. if the cages flow ideally then there's no problem.
>>
>>1323717
>>1323728
>>1323739
I think autonomous cars CAN be part of the solution, but in the end that depends on if people are prepared to also use mass transit for long distance trips.
Replace highways/autobahn with high frequency HSR, and use (electric) autonomous cars for the trips to and from there.
That would reduce emissions by a degree unimaginable these days, while still covering the mobility needs of the population.

If we use autonomous cars simply the way we use cars today, they won't fix anything.
>>
>>1323763
the cause of traffic is that when there are too many cars on the road, humans are inadequate and their control does not converge.
the solution is to wait for the proliferation of new car features. Trains have absolutely nothing to do with it. Really, once radar cruise control is standard most modes of traffic will be gone.
>>
>>1323763
I happen to think that autonomous cars are a boomer meme... They never got flying cars but by god they will get automated cars.

I would never trust one during a Canadian winter desu.
>>
>>1323763
>If we use autonomous cars simply the way we use cars today, they won't fix anything.

Very much this. The ability of autonomous cars to be, well, autonomous means that people won't need to use them the same way with parking, waiting in traffic etc. But if they were used more like an on-demand vehicle, where after someone finishes their trip the car automatically buggers off to transport someone else, then you wouldn't need to park any more. It would allow land currently used for parking to be reclaimed, such as expanding sidewalks in the city or infill development. And the big problem of low car utilisation among those who use them would be largely solved.

Of course, public transport and other mass transit would always be more efficient at transporting large numbers of people into a small space like a city.
>>
>>1323976
>But if they were used more like an on-demand vehicle, where after someone finishes their trip the car automatically buggers off to transport someone else, then you wouldn't need to park any more

This is exactly what that one guy who made habitat-67 thought of as a solution. Forget the name

Parking for on-demand, public vehicles would be a lot better because they don't have to be spaced out so everyone can get in and out easily. Instead you'd have many tightly packed cars and you simply take whatever ones are in front and drive off. It would severely reduce the amount of required parking. I think it's a nice idea.
>>
>>1323976
>Of course, public transport and other mass transit would always be more efficient at transporting large numbers of people into a small space like a city.
With autonomous cars, public transit won't be competitive if even want to sit through your whole journey is a luxury.
>>
>>1323976
>It would allow land currently used for parking to be reclaimed, such as expanding sidewalks in the city or infill development.
Except it has the significant drawback of pushing more cars onto roads, increasing the amount of roadspace required. And you have the problem that car demand is significantly lower than at peak times, so you have to have space to park the cars somewhere, or accept peak-level traffic st all times of the day, wasting a ton of energy. Driverless cars will help in some ways, but they're not a cure all.
>>
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>>1323787
>the cause of traffic is that something/someone needs to be moved from A to B
FTFY
What you mean is the cause for traffic jams.
Trains are way more efficient at moving stuff. They scale linearly like automobiles, but with a way lower factor, so in the long run, they are absolutely the way to go. (Thinking about it, we probably had this discussion before. Don't remember how that ended. I think the thread dropped off page 10 at some point without us reaching a conclusion.)

>>1323973
>They never got flying cars
Pic related apparently thinks otherwise.
>>
>>1323344
>is only 12-15km -- an easily bike-able distance
jesus christ you really have no idea about anything do you
>>
>>1323458
>thinking this is a hot take
>having 'hot take' in your vocabulary
back to NUMTOT faggot
>>
>>1323529
The city centre. Small, used by loads of people both inside and outside of the city.
>>
>>1323529
Train station.
For US "towns" and "cities", street corners if you count it as areas, intersections if you count traffic/transport planning and urban design.
>>
>>1323529
Depends on what you put in that area.
If you put a nuclear waste site anywhere, less than a square meter would do to make a "noticeable difference".
>>
>>1324304
>how to spot an american
>>
>>1324391
He isn't necessarily American.

I live in a relatively flat region, and am slim, but I'd never consider a bike commute beyond 5km. At that point it's train and/or bus.
Having to shower every fucking morning at work isn't really a thing I'd want to be doing.
>>
How does upzoning from detached houses work?
Do they go door-to-door offering to buy the house? I imagine most say yes. Otherwise it would be really difficult to build new condos.
>>
>>1323461
>>1323677
Won't work on rich suburban Americans, who do wear their shoes in the house. A culture shock for me when I first encountered it. Not as shocking as the food waste, of course.
>>
>>1324406
Depends on who you mean by "they". Typically the government does not play such an active role. Typically a parcel will be zoned into something more dense than currently existing. Lets say a row of duplexes is actually zoned Multifamily housing. A developer might offer to purchase properties with the intent to tear them down and building something bigger. If no developer is interested than nothing happens.

In Minneapolis there was a fit about upzoning all single family homes to allow for triplexes. Opponents cried of demolition of neighborhoods for developers. In reality the economics of buying a $300k house, spending $600k to tear it down and build a triplex that they can only rent for $1,600 a unit makes no sense. Most major developers would never wade into a project so small so you're left with a handful of small developers that are willing to risk such an investment for such a small return.
>>
>>1324406
The city/county/whatever re-zones the property, that's it. Zoning just says what *can* be built on the property, not what *must* be built on the property.
>>
I was thinking about the difficulties of upzoning.
I guess nimby might be a bigger obstacle than showing up at somebody's house and asking them to sell and move out, because you can tempt homeowners with more and more money, but you can't do that with nimby.
>>
>>1324431
Damn dude you're insanely worldly


>>1324804
>because you can tempt homeowners with more and more money, but you can't do that with nimby.
Yes you can, that's why you offer more money. Often such offers are contingent on everyone in a particular area selling (if it involves multiple parcels), so if someone holds out for a long enough time the whole thing falls apart. Usually the price is good enough to get everyone to go though.
>>
>>1324960
By nimby, I meant the zoning change in the process, the political part where the politicians and/or the voters first have to be convinced to allow the upzoning.
>>
>>1324964
Yeah sometimes it is and sometimes developers have local politicians in their pocket and it sails through
>>
>>1323458
"Gentrification" and "improving communities" are literally synonyms. Also, anyone who complains about gentrification but supports immigration is a massive hypocrite.
>>
>>1324391
haha joke's on you dickhead I'm not an amerimutt


I can easily cycle that many miles but you can't expect everyone to do that.
>>
Can someone suggest some autodidact literature for learning town planning?
>>
>>1326301
you can check out the colleges and universities offering urban planning education and then see if they've put their syllabuses online. that is a good way to start.

i am not sure what you can do with that knowledge other than accumulate it because you enjoy the topic as a hobby.
>>
>>1324403
>having to shower after 5 km
You weigh 400 pounds and you've never been on a bike that wasn't a BSO with knobby underinflated tires and rubbing brakes
>>1325859
No you can't. See a doctor
>>
>>1326348
Protip: Simply because you don't smell yourself, that doesn't mean others don't smell you either, you greasy, "alternative" faggot.

You are part of the people that give bicyclers the bad reputation that they have, which they ought not deserve, since every single bicycler is better than any motorist.
>>
>>1326456
I sit next to a hypersensitive girl at work who bitches about the smell of someone's hand lotion 6 cubicles away, or about some dude's BO who sits 2 cubicles away, or the smell of someone's cold sandwich in the next room. I've asked her if I smell. She says I don't and she's never smelled anything bad from me, except that one time I used coal tar shampoo and she was like WTF is that smell.
>>
>>1326459
>>1326456
Oh sorry I forgot to add: you're still fat and disgusting. Eat less. You disgusting fat fuck.
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>>1323739
Roads still have physical capacities where even at "ideal" flow you cannot fit any more vehicles and are constrained by geometry and traffic signals. The idea of stop-less signals, where automated cars all work together and go through intersections together without stopping, is pointless when pedestrians are present. You will still need traffic signal phasing to allow peds to cross. This means you can't have system wide signal overrides or optimizations by autonomous vehicles, largely defeating some of their purpose. Also in NYC in particular, you're constrained by inbound and outbound geometry. Automated cars will get stuck the same as regular cars when you attempt to put a number of vehicles greater than the capacity of your tunnel or bridge.
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>>1326968
Also:
Who is going to be paying for these automated systems? The city? Do you know expensive and complex traffic simulation is? Automated cars don't magically know the ideal route to take. You need to constantly calculate the attraction of EVERY road segment, so that individual vehicles can calculate their optimal route based on speed, travel time, and cost. The simulation needs to take signals, congestion, capacity, and many other variables into account. To do this in real time, and allow the ability to change your route while you're routing, takes huge amounts of processing power. It will never be as simple as automate telling the car go to A to B. That would send every car on the same route. You need to route them intelligently and to use capacity to the fullest extent which is no easy feat.
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>>1311467
meanwhile the HSR they propose will take 20 years to complete.
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>>1324969
Who said that political lobbying is completely bad
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>>1328127
Haha. Definitely more understanding of it if the above is true.
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>>1328843
On one hand some developers lobby to upzone to maximize their profits but...

There is also lobbying in favour of single family zoning, because it increases the value of the homes they already own. This is the most prevalent type of lobbying
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>>1325649
Yeah man i love it when the nice looking +70 year old houses a few suburbs over get mass demolished so that some chinese banker can build a hideous beige concrete cube which doesn't meet safety standards and will be demolished in 20 years to "improve the community"
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>>1325649
>Anyone who complains about gentrification but supports immigration is a massive hypocrite.
probably the reason why traditional democrats are losing support in Hong Kong
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>>1311464
One of the things i like when doing /nightwalks/ is picking a random direction and going wherever.
You end up going on places completely hidden, with uneven terrain where the engineers had to get creative.
There's wobbly roads that go around people's property, lead to dead end or stairs, elevated sidewalks and all kinds of shit.
Do you guys prefer European cities like these or like in burgerland where most cities are basically grids as far as the eye can see?
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Not sure if this is the right thread but what's a fringie anyway.
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>>1329829
Japanese cities are like this and I love it. Grid plans are boring as shit.
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>>1329829
It's really no contest
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>>1329829
>tfw living in one of the kost violent countries on earth and i can't nightwalk
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>>1330204
Imagine living in the land of cage, grids, and violence. Feels bad man.
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>>1330218
grids would be perfectly comfy with separated bike lanes and far fewer cagers. it's nice to trust that the road you're on goes where you think it goes. the problem is cagers.
>>1329829
>can't go on a nightwalk because 9 in 10 chance of being hit by a car
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>>1330365
Roads were built for cages not bikes
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>>1330204
I live in the middle of the ghetto in the centre of Athens so it's a miracle I haven't been mugged yet, though i don't know if I should push my luck like that.
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>>1330369
I am brazilian and live in a city on one of the main drug trafficking routes of the country :)
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>>1330492
Cool. How often do you have cyclist day, or it is just coca?
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>>1330524
Wtf is a cyclist day
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>>1313529
Really depends on the house etc. Most places with forced parking spots are so expensive that people who buy them also have a car. If you don´t like it don´t buy it.
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>>1330583
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lysergic_acid_diethylamide#%22Bicycle_Day%22
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>>1330365
>grids would be perfectly comfy with separated bike lanes and far fewer cagers. it's nice to trust that the road you're on goes where you think it goes. the problem is cagers.
Public resources used to build roads aren't for your enjoyment. Die cagerlites
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Just a Prediction. In 30-40 years US cities will be only middle class and the wealthy. All of the poors will be forced into the Suburbs and the suburbs will slowly crumble in bad infrastructure without being stupidly subsidized like they are now.
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>>1330731
I think the complete opposite. I think that right now the only reason people are moving into apartments and using public transport is they are too poor to afford a big house, car and family so they have a massive case of sour grapes.

Once (if) boomers die off and the wealth of millennial starts to increase you'll see them opting for the same luxuries boomers had.

Niggers and other shitskins ruining areas is an endless cycle and is fairly agnostic about what kind of housing is involved.
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>>1330737
That's completely wrong. Suburb homes are far cheaper to purchase for the same square footage as a condo in a built up area. For the same price as my 250k dollar condo, I could have bought a suburb home twice the size. I didn't because a value shorter commute times and less necessary driving in general over having a mcmansion and a yard. Millennials can easily afford it, they just don't want to buy it.
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>>1330739
>paid 250k for a fucking condo
>thinks he is representative of what i was talking about
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>>1330739
>250k in my state might get you a yurt with a nice well outside
>will never, ever be able to afford to own property
and people wonder why I'm hoping for nuclear annihilation
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>>1330731
>bad infrastructure
Frankly said, in the US, don't people with more money than necessary intentionally move to places with shit infrastructure?
The poor people are all where the infrastructure is good or at least decent. That's why you keep shitting on infrastructure, don't you? Since it's largely used by poor people. Rich people don't need infrastructure.
That feels like the US mindset.
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>>1330767
I don't understand, is it because it's too cheap or too expensive?
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>>1330848
This post is 100% right.
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>>1330767
what? Are you talking about fucking Cali where any single family home is minimum 1 million sticker price? That one state is not representative of the US.
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>>1330848
Rich people in the US move to places with low taxes. Low taxes lead to shit infrastructure. So basically, they pay for their own services privately instead of co-financing that which is available to everyone through taxes.

Most developed countries have laws and tax codes that make this impossible.
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>>1330737
>someone likes things different than what i like
>it must be sour grapes
Its all so tiresome.
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>>1330737
Racist. Get banned. I said niggers once and got banned so now will you.
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>>1331029
Same wtf is up with that? Been here 7 years and first time i got b& for that was 2 weeks ago.
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>>1331031
Reddit mods must have taken over.
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>>1331031
Nigger. Mods ban me.
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>>1331048
Mods ban me yet?
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>>1330881
>Rich people in the US move to places with low taxes. Low taxes lead to shit infrastructure. So basically, they pay for their own services privately instead of co-financing that which is available to everyone through taxes.
Except that's mostly only true for those low to medium.income group of people that think they are rich. Those that are actually rich are living in economically advanced area with more tax even in the United States
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>>1331026
Do you seriously enjoy living in a crowded apartment block with all the noise and smell and lack of privacy? Seeing a cool place to go and then realizing it's too far to cycle, there's no bus, and uber would be far too expensive?

Every time you get on the train and some filthy nigger annoys you, don't you ever wonder what it'd be like to live in an all white neighborhood in a nice house?

Try not to sour grapes too hard, just imagine, a big, comfy, quiet house, a nice comfy car or truck you can drive whereever you'd like, room for all your hobbies and possessions, a full size kitchen, a patio that backs onto nature rather than another building.

You'll get there one day.
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>>1331188
This isn't how it actually is in a decent urban neighborhood. Try to leave your cul-de-sac every decade or so, maybe find a cheap flight!
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>>1331188
Some people live in first world countries where they don't have to worry about people with a different skin colour.

Still sounds like you're sour grapes that other people might like something you don't.
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>>1331188
It is so sad that, in some part of the so-called "developed" world, these living conditions you have listed can only be attained by part of the population living in specific area.
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>>1331188
>wanting a big cardboard house built in 2003 by illegals
I would rather lived in a brownstone built in 1910 and likely to still be standing in 100+ years because of superior craftmanship
>quiet
Stone walls are thick, i can't hear any of my neighbors
>needing a huge house when you only have 1 kid like most mcmansion dwellers
For what purpose
>car or truck
I can walk anywhere i want in 5 minutes. This includes historic landmarks and neighborhoods that have existed before the American revolution. Plus in the 'burbs people think you're a vagrant if you /nightwalk/ so no more comfy nightwalks for you
>room for cheap chinese junk
good goy
>full sized kitchen
I have one
>patio that backs into nature
My backyard isnt any less private than the average subdivision tb.h
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>>1331188
>get a 2000 sq ft. house and pack it to the brim with random shit or you're poor
Imagine being a 100 IQ consumer slave. Wonder who profits from the fact that you feel like you need to isolate yourself from other people and buy all you can in order to status signal?
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Mods still haven't banned me. They must be busy buying sȫy lattes
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Stop asking for people who do not exists to do works that does not exists.
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>>1324969
The most effective way is to jump to a higher level of government, and simply kill off the detailed zoning requirements. You don't need to have neighborhood level meetings for years on end, just a few lobbyists at the capital.
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>>1331366
>Plus in the 'burbs people think you're a vagrant if you /nightwalk/ so no more comfy nightwalks for you
Also nightwalking isn't as pleasant when your route is just endless rows of suburbia
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>>1316238
Basements ? What ?
>>
a bunch of data with some analysis of number of cars per capita in US cities:
https://www.trulia.com/research/people-per-vehicle-map/
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China invented "trackless" high speed rail station
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>>1333350
uuh...
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>>1331188
>>1330737
>""""neighbourhood""""
I live in the country, not some outer urban clone tool hellscape completely devoid of any community other than some organisation of miserable old biddies telling me what to plant in my garden and what colour my house should be.

I see in the inner-urban areas of the cities I visit a similar sort of sense of community that I value in my country town. Cafes and small specialist stores that people are regulars to. I am recognised in the cafes, stores and pubs I frequent when I visit.

Meanwhile your shopping is done at a mall and your children can't even visit their friends the next street over without you driving them completely out of the subdivision to a major road and then back into it again. No walkability, no corner stores, no social clubs, no third places at all. Suburbia might as well be a psyop to destroy community and civic virtue.



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