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alright this might be a complete mistake but gonna try this anyway.

Discuss anything related to infrastructure (roads, bridges, railways, waterways, trails, etc)
Try to stay on on topic, decent rule of thumb is discussion about specific vehicles of transportation are better suited to other generals (or boards) but talking about any building/structure that is relevant in transportation is fair game
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>>1303726
I have some road ideas for DFW since it is growing. We need to focus on the Northwest and South DFW areas.

One Idea is to build a toll road from Hillsboro, TX to Venus,TX label it I-35C and resign TX-360 and the northbound portion of TX-114/121 as I-35C with the new Toll median of TX-114 at I-35W signed as I-35C. This will facilitate Waco and South traffic to DFW Airport, AT&T and Ranger's stadium, and travel to Southlake. This will increase interest in the difficult to reach town of Maypearl and Venus, TX. It will relive traffic on both I-35W and I-35E. It will help trucks get to east Fort Worth and West Dallas faster. Signs will be placed in Denton, Roanoke, and Hillsboro advising the time difference to Each end of the 35 splits so that through traffic can make the decision to go on 35C/W towards Fort Worth from Denton or 35E to Dallas from Denton. In Hillsboro an exit will be placed on bothe 35E and W for I 35C a Sign there will advise the difference in time between the 3 roads to the north end in Denton.
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>>1303749
I-35C is essentially an extension of State Highway 360. Along with cosigning TX-114 until it reaches the junction with I-35W.

Another idea is one that will eventually happen, and that is making 114 an interstate standard Highway Northwest of it's junction with I-35W. Another existing plan highlighted in my map is the Southwest future highway State Highway 170 which at the moment is just an access road, but will have a tolled highway that will eventually cross Eagle Mountain Lake. Eventually, I think it would be a good idea to extend it to Weatherford, TX to I-20.

The Northbound Yellow from Fort Worth in my map is an idea to build a bridge Toll road over railroad tracks called the Fort Worth North Tollway. Similar to the idea of the Dallas North Tollway to facilitate the development of North Fort Worth and Western Denton. It would terminate at US-380.

The Northwest orange line out of Fort Worth is an idea to build a bridged Toll road over State Highway 199 towards Azle. Portions of TX-199 to Azle are already interstate standard, but the rest of the highway is lacking. Under the 1950's plan for Interstate Highways, TX-199 was supposed to be the Northwest X from the loop (I-820) to downtown. Only two portions of the X were originally built while the town of River Oaks protested the idea of making 199 a limited access highway. Eventually by 2012 the Southwest portion of the X, the Chisholm Trail Parkway to Cleburne was built because the land had been set aside for decades.

the Gray and Yellow on this map are Bridge and tunnel ideas that my autism came up with.

Dump your road Ideas here.
>>
unpopular opinion:
Current road infrastructure was planned decades ago, and globally, people keep moving into the cities, where every square inch is already built up.

Therefore, I believe that no more roads should be built. At all. Period. More roads just lead to more traffic. All infrastructure planning should be focussed on maintaining the existing roads, and where possible and beneficial, replace existing roads with rail, housing, green areas or bike paths.
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>>1303755
DFW has done the opposite and has grown and has about the same time between places when it had less of a population. There is still some road work going on.

I like to drive 85 Miles per Hour on TX-130 when I skip past Austin.

I think parts of I-35C should have an 80 MPH speed limit.
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>>1303755
That's not really an unpopular opinion in planning circles though. New roads are appealing because they enable and follow real estate development and help grow the tax base which is too irresistible for many places to resist. The cost of services per capita in those places though is higher and of course poses all kinds of problems like sprawl.
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I think more roads are fine
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>>1303772
You know I heard an interesting concept a while back. What it boils down to is that if you need to increase capacity between two points, traffic flow is slightly better if you split the additional capacity between multiple routes rather than increasing it only on one route.
>>
More limited-access highways, less freeways.

>>1303755
>unpopular
Not so unpopular here.
>no more roads should be built
> focussed on maintaining the existing roads, and where possible and beneficial, replace existing roads with rail
Maintain existing capacity. Replace existing roads with roads further out regionally, and mass transit locally. More bypass and ring roads.

>>1303772
Where, and how are what make it not fine.
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>>1303755
hear, hear.
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>>1303755
Kinda agree
I'm in favor for building things like better interchanges, longer on/off ramps, basically anything that improves traffic flow also bit of a history tangent but there are a lot of old U.S. highways that got abandoned when the interstate was built and maybe it's just nostalgia talking but I would mind if they where reincorporated back in the system.
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>>1303790
One of the problems with my I-35C idea is that TX-360 currently has a lot of traffic jams due to poor ramp design, on and off ramps meeting each other, and a bad interchange (currently being replaced) between I-30 and TX-360.

A lot of traffic jams could be alleviated by increasing the distance where possible of lanes ending, having better merging points and encouraging motorists to merge when the lane ends and not earlier.

A lot of improvements don't necessarily mean adding more lanes, sometimes simpler work can do wonders.
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>>1303870
>A lot of improvements don't necessarily mean adding more lanes, sometimes simpler work can do wonders
Couldn't agree more.
It gets really annoying at times when talking about the highway system that both sides seem to think the only solution is to add more lanes. Kinda hope it doesn't devolve into that with the thread but that's just wishful thinking.
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>>1303912
More lanes are a superior solution. Inasmuch that you can avoid lanes ending. Merging is the primary source of traffic jams when there isn't an accident/obstruction. When NTTA did the toll lanes on TX-183 and I-820 they left a lot of lane endings and chokepoints that the tolls did not have. (Until you got to where it ends) They promoted through the preconstruction videos that there would be an extra free lane on both ways, but it never materialized, though it could easily be put in. The space is there for it. But, overall simpler work can add less stress to a roadway.
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>>1303921
By doing *any* improvements on freeways you are further encouraging modal shift towards cars, and causing the same traffic you're trying to fix.

It's a lose-lose in the end
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>>1303922
Mass transit can't compete with the convenience of cars. Even in the worst traffic in DFW, the two trains we have are still considerably slower than the roads.

The only mass transit that works is Aircraft.
Other than that, you need highly dense ant mounds for humans in order for mass transit to be profitable. And even then, in those areas you 'll still see cars.
In New York city, it was profitable for Chinese to run busses and it was profitable for people to take a large conversion van and have car pools for profit. That is, until the city shut both down.
In places that are ant piles, the government is also very corrupt. New York city only gives out so many taxi medallions. These permissions to operate as a taxi cost 1 million dollars.
In Europe and Japan, they still make and drive cars.
Overall, mass transit is a meme that is inconvenient, doesn't reduce traffic, cost more than cars, and isn't faster than cars and has limited coverage.
If I were dictator of the DOT and it were up to me, I would make it legal for anyone to operate a minimally regulated taxi and bus service.
Uber and Lyft could hire school bus operators to do private bus service at a low cost.
I would privatize all government rest areas so that a concession stand could be operated under a contract that the operator maintain the lot and the restrooms.
These are things that should happen. Instead we get regulation that stifles innovation and wastes money. We get pissy fights over things.
An example: Recently the same government that operates busses in FW built a train line to the airport. Several of these stops have parking so that riders can drive to the train and then drive home. At the Airport Station, they had a regulation put in place that nobody can park there for more than 18 hours because the government agency didn't want competition to incur between the Airport's parking lot and the private long term parking lots.
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>>1303924
>In New York city, it was profitable for Chinese to run busses and it was profitable for people to take a large conversion van and have car pools for profit. That is, until the city shut both down.
Jitney services are VERY overrated. A lot of economists promote them as a "free-market alternative" to public transit, but they're really the worst of both worlds.
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>>1303926
Most of the problem that I've seen is that most people just want to drive themselves, at their own pace, and at a time of their own choosing. But just because an idea sucks, doesn't mean that it should be eliminated. I'd love to see weirdly decorated school busses driving people everywhere on demand with a rideshare ap. I think that it would be pretty neat.

Also forgot my other bad idea: Make it legal for freight trains to have a passenger car for the hobos that want to ride, they just have to show their ID to the train engineer. And if anything bad happens, who cares it is one less hobo.
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>>1303922
I'm arguing under the pretense that the interstate highway system isn't going anywhere so we might as well try and make them as efficient as possible.
I haven't seen any sources claiming that improving interchanges and merging points adds as much traffic volume as adding more lanes does.
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I really fucking hate how bad the merging in cloverleaf junctions is, people just don't understand how to navigate it properly. Whenever I know one is coming up I try to get in the lane furthest away from merge lane because I know someone is not going to enter traffic at the right speed
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>>1303924
Sounds like you want to live in Latin America friendo, licensed and unlicensed taxis on every street corner, in every city and town. A true free market paradise. Why don't you move there? Of course people can eke by a living driving a taxi 12 hours a day, every single day of the year. Exemplary social equity without the hand of government to get involved.

A quick google search of your trip shows you're a regular /pol/ poster. Why don't you go back to your containment board now.
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>>1303924
Mass transit definitely reduces traffic. If everyone on those crowded, unreliable rush hour buses and trains decided to drive instead, traffic would be many times worse. You not appreciating how convenient this makes your resulting drive is the real meme.

Unfortunately for most of the US I do have to concede that public transit is pretty trash, all things concerned.
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Good thread.

You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like.
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>>1303979
>peak performance
>roundabouts
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>>1303777
I strongly believe that.
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>>1303954
Great on space, Uturning, and going in circles if one desires.

Bad: For drunks falling down the middle, trucks picking up speed to merge, trucks having to slow down so that they don't tip over, and confusion that normies get navigating them.
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>>1303982
>more efficient traffic flow than traffic lights
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>>1303982
Amerifat.
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>>1303954
The ONLY time cloverleafs work well is when the merging lanes are separated from the main traffic lanes by a barrier or median.
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>>1303979
Needs more diverging diamond
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>>1303955
>Having one aspect of the free market means that the rest of the country is free market.
Uh no, they don't even have backyards or decent foreign investment in Mexico. They even have laws restricting who can own real estate there. There's a reason people leave.

That being said, private mass transit was a thing in America. Martin Luther King Jr organized a bus boycott in order to get the private bus company to ignore the local Jim Crow laws that said that blacks had to be in the back.

We didn't have government ownership of mass transit until progressive vermin took it over. NYC's Subway started out as a private enteprise before the city took it over. In the process, the private company was building new stations, in the 1930's, but today that station has still not came online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhC3-9mSb4

>>1303979
Not bad. I love roundabouts, especially when the road is empty. My list: 1. Roundabouts 2. 4 way stops 3. Traffic lights.
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Was going through the history of the interstate recently, surprised that this was the preferred layout initially looked something like this as well as a majority of the system being planned as a 2 lane network instead of the normal 4+ lanes today
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>>1303979
That being said, there needs to be a sign on all roundabouts:

GO SLOW! ALLOW ONE CAR IN!
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>>1303726
A HSR line connecting the cities of America (all the metropolitan areas at least). Some lines will be less speedy, and less lanes, while urban corridors will have a lot more lanes and speed. It would mostly but not at all completely follow the Interstate's routes, depends where it is after all
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>>1304002
I can't remember if I have ever been in one of those. I know one Texas Highway decided to eliminate intersections and instead put Michigan lefts in if you wanted to turn left. You first had to go right and then do a u turn at the Michigan left.
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>>1304020
Ah, HSR. All the advantages of air travel at ground altitude. This meme wouldn't work in America because every little town along the way would want a station.
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>>1304023
Many of the major suburbs and micropolitan areas if they were located between two metro areas would prolly have a station after all
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>>1304023
Same poster. Anyway, my suburb town would ideally be among the top stopovers in my state (Maryland, between Baltimore and DC)
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>>1303924
>I would privatize all government rest areas so that a concession stand could be operated under a contract that the operator maintain the lot and the restrooms.
I'm surprised no one has talked about the service area's in Japan I've heard there actually quite nice, anyone ever been to one care to share
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Michigan roads are all bad, but some are worse than others.
—Arthur Jerome Eddy, early car enthusiast, 1902
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>>1304034
Yeah, they actually are pretty nice. The ones I've been to seem to focus heavily on selling souvenir shit, lots of local specialty foods and fancy wrapped boxes of cookies and shit, and sometimes unusual stuff like anime merch if there's a relevant reason. (I stopped at one one the way back from Nagoya to Tokyo and they had exclusive Love Live Sunshine merchandise because apparently the series takes place near where the rest stop was.)
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>>1304034
https://www.tokyoreview.net/2018/10/japan-railway-privatization/
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>>1304034
They wouldn't work in most parts of the US because Interstates have exits with restaurants and gas stations on them every few miles or less

They do have service areas on some toll roads that are contracted out but they suck ass
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>>1303954
We should have a minimum speed for merging lanes, if you don`t reach at least 80-100 km/h, you get a fine.
Enforcement could be done via speed-traps.
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>>1304046
never said the U.S. had to copy it just asking if anyone been to one
This is a Infrastructure general thread where allowed to talk about Infrastructure outside America
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Does anyone but me care about the way overpasses and minor bridges and pylons look? I think they're overlooked but box girders look so much better than concrete I-beams
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>>1304056
I don't care
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>>1304057
I used to drive under this crazy ass thing on the way to work every day.
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>>1304075
I like oblique-angled overpasses but that thing is just plain ugly
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>>1304058
So what exactly is the issue again?
I just posted asking a bit about infrastructure that so happens to be outside the US and that's somehow a bad thing?
I'm a bit confused.
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>>1304079
Stop sperging out
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>>1303979
The great swirly whirly of our time
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>>1303979
That thing would make a fun little race track.
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>>1304085
OK.
But still, what is the issue in me asking about another country?
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>>1304033
You might have a case there, but Airlines in Europe started getting cheaper. I think that Texas is going to get HSR before anyone else. Of course it is being done privately and all the ranchers along I-45 are somewhat opposing it. It'll be a Houston to Dallas HSR. I'm not sure if it will be a daily route, but it'll have a slower travel speed than airlines, but beat them simply because it'll lack the TSA inspections.
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>>1304043
>>1304045
Interesting
>>1304046
Yeah, let the government monopolize anything and the service will suck. Shocker there.
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>>1304105
>Yeah, let the government monopolize anything and the service will suck. Shocker there.
Good luck getting /n/ to understand that
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>>1304057
Looks good. I like road art. They should commission more. DFW has some stone art within the newly remodelled highways. Always a cut out scene of the local culture is depicted.

Here is i-30 in Arlington...

>>1304075
Neat.

>>1304079
Using foreign examples is an excellent way to argue. Don't listen to that clown.
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>>1304109
lol. True. Any infrastructure discussion is going to be populated by statists unfortunately.

Sort of like Amtrak fans can't admit that trains are really for freight and that once rail companies didn't have to deal with passengers, they never missed them.

Amtrak of course was created because a law was put in place requiring rail companies to carry passengers, when all they really cared about was freight. It's almost like the government keeping horse whip and buggy manufacturers in business.

Statists just can't let go of obsolete tech.
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>>1304115
...what? The railroads were literally in love with passenger service in the 1800's. They lobbied extensively and successfully for infrastructure and right of ways specifically for passenger service. Hell even the US National Park system exists in the way it does because of lobbying from rail back in the day. Railroads wasn't glad to be rid of passenger service, the automobile did that for them.
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>>1304118
That's because there was no alternative back then except horse drawn carriages
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>>1304124
OK....still doesn't change the fact that saying RR's were never intended for passenger travel is utterly false.
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>>1304128
That's not what >>1304115 said.
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>>1304118
Rails got tired of passengers when cars were barely able to cross the country. By the 1950's they couldn't wait to jettison them, but couldn't. They were forced to keep them even if better alternatives were in place (Airplanes, cars, busses)
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>>1304128
The rail infrastructure in this country is not suitable for passenger travel. Property swamped them and they got built up so much that it is almost impossible to build new lines across considerable distances without buying up property or bulldozing infrastructure. Heavy trains are limited by the fact that they can't climb hills very well. They need perfectly near flat inclines. This is why the southern tip of Arizona and New Mexico was purchased from Mexico. They needed that expanse of land in order to build the railroad.
>>
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/business/economy/gig-economy-lobbying.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

/n/'s theme of the week should be "let the industry do the regulating." Here you go bro, here's your free market at work. fuck workers and people though, we can just replace more equitable public transit systems with uber and lyft.
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>>1304487
Uber and lyft aren’t jobs, hense the idea of it being a rideshare. It started as digital hitch hiking. They had government go after them because taxis regulated competitors out of business. So government went after Uber and Lyft. Put all sorts of burdensome regs on them and made all sorts of dumb arguments against them. And by the end of it, tried to turn both into fully regulated taxi service. When in reality it was an enter at your own risk digital hitch hiking. Which I believe should be allowed as an option. But, government says no, so like flophouses, we instead have bums sleeping under bridges. Honestly I am not sad about people trying to make a living off of Lyft and failing, there just isn’t that much demand for taxi services.
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>>1304104
I heard, that's good news. If these guys can do it, then it may show that private organizations hiring engineers who already mastered such feats (i.e. Japan and Shinkansen) can match and surpass state and federal funds (California's hilarious failed attempts that just got killed not too long ago)
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>>1304006
Out in rural areas, it is still all 2 lanes in each direction.
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What is the point of this design?
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>>1304866
(mostly) freeflowing traffic with as little tram conflict as possible? Love that mini tram roundabout though.
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>>1304866
I assume the point is not annexing those houses. Looks like rich people might live there.
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>>1304866
Nothing special, just the road bending around the tram turning loop / roundabout. This maximizes queue storage on the crossing roads.

>>1304929
>freeflowing
Alright time to settle this since we are in an appropriate general: "Uninterrupted" is the word you are looking for.
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>>1304930
This minimizes the number of arms crossed.
Nothing to do with what those houses are. It's equally obstructive as the park to the west, and school to the east protruding out of the grassland.
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Do dams count?

https://youtu.be/m8xZzmtM8iw
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besides corporate sponsorship like pic related how can we work together in a decentralized manner to build i/n/frastructure without greedy statist pigus?
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a n c a p
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>>1304004
Private mass transit also exists in Latin America, dumbass. Why don't you come one of these days and try the basic and redlagged free market buses you love so much? I'm sure you'll love how missing one of them means waiting 20 minutes for the next one, the exciting roller coaster ride for an adrenaline infused commute and the ever increasing fare hikes. But hey, at least the right-wing government isn't getting their libtard hards on it.
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>>1305213
I love how in order to imagine something’s existence, you have to take the rest of the surrounding circumstance for it to happen. You can miss public sector monopolised mass transit here and be out for hours, much less 20 minutes. Also reminder: this could only happen when the bus service had no risk of going out of business...

Privatized charter busses and tourist busses exist all the time in the us with no issue. Why not allow the private companies a legal means to operate a mass transit service?
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>>1305187
I bet that staff wass delivered to him - on roads.
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>>1304004
FYI, when planning is done right, infrastructure is built to anticipate (and encourage) growth because real estate prices and existing owners make building new infrastructure to meet existing demand tremendously difficult and expensive. New York City in the 1930's was nowhere near as expensive or intensively developed as it is today, it was a manufacturing city, not to mention it being in the middle of the depression.
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>>1305274
The city taking over the subway stifled it’s growth. They also regulated the fares and didn’t allow it to adjust for inflation.
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>>1305274
And remember, when the subway was built, urban planning wasn’t much of a thing. It was still somewhat anarchical with property rights being very well respected. Imminent domain abuse and urban planning only got worse during the Silent Generation’s leadership. It got worse during the Boomer era.
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>>1305283
>anarchy
>property rights respected
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>>1305165
Getting on the /sci/ and /g/ side, but ok. Better water locks. Those construction or loading machinery (including carnes) and transportation (ropeways and conveyor belts) are much ignored.
Tokyo's Tokyu Setagaya line light rail went 100% hydro and gerothermal powered this week.
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>>1305284
Anarchy in the sense of ancap rules. Government had less of a say back then in what you could do with your property than they do now. The role of government is the monopolisation of the legal use of violence in order to enforce contracts. Property rights being respected meant that you couldn’t force someone to sell their property so that you could build your road or subway without their consent and compensation.

When the subway was built, New York City was more free than it is today.
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>>1305253
I'm pretty sure mass transportation is absolute horse shit in America, whether it's public, private, run by Jews or chinks. Thanks for explaining what's obvious.
On the other hand, you're trying to convince us privatizing anything is better than letting the government run it, then I provide a counterexample and you just ignore it. Shadilay, kekistani bro. As much as this might surprise you, bad management can happen both with and without government intervention.
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>>1305288
More likely with government intervention. In the private sector, bad management means failure
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>>1303921
>More lanes are a superior solution
It is absolutely not. Look up "induced demand". Texas is a great case study for where engineers have constructed more lanes only for traffic to get worse. It's not fake news or science fiction. Think about it logically. Perhaps right now many people think "I don't want to take that route, there's always traffic!". Engineers add 5 new lanes. Now you think "I can take that route, there's 5 new lanes". Multiply this repeatedly and once again, your demand exceeds capacity.
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>>1303924
>Even in the worst traffic in DFW, the two trains we have are still considerably slower than the roads.
The solution is obvious then, instead of blowing money on more lanes which won't do anything, they can improve transit. This cyclical thinking is why many states have shitty transit. Politicians see trains are crap so they're like "why invest in this shit?". If you invest in it and make it nice, people will use it.
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>>1303979
Roundabouts yes but that design is actually very unsafe. You should not ever have a crosswalk like that so close to a highway entrance or exit ramp, especially around a curve like that where it pops up quickly.
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>>1303995
Cloverleaves are antiquated and only work well when you have horse drawn carriages and rich old people taking leisure drives going 10 mph that can navigate curves and merges easily. In today's world they have no place.
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>>1304050
This doesn't solve anything though. What if you have someone who just merged into the lane to exit the highway and has to slow down because there's a sharp 270 degree loop ramp in front of them? Do you just floor it and run them off the road? This weaving lane is exactly why cloverleaves fail and why drivers have trouble navigating them.
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>>1304133
The Northeast would not be as much of an economic powerhouse as it is today without rail. Rail works when planned correctly. No one is suggested trying to emulate Japan exactly in America, the country is too wide. However, many growing regions would benefit from connecting their cities with HSR and replicating the success of the NEC which actually does make quite good profits, especially the meme Acela.
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>>1305385
>make it nice, people will use it.
Still slower than jammed traffic.
The part that you are missing is that the trains can’t beat the car. And have a limited area of operation. Even in bad traffic the train is slower due to the multiple stops.
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>>1305392
The northeast is the only place that passenger rail similar to Europe can exist. If we made our airlines less TSA induced wait fests, they’d be as fast as HSR.
>>
Just strip out regulations and make it easier to build and maintain shit
Bam
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>>1305692
Strip out process, you can still regulate. The biggest burden is usually the group think caused by comittie’s and environmental impact studies followed by other comittie’s. There’s charts of how many steps were needed in New York to even begin process of creating any infrastructure that the trump administration talked about. Most of the complaint was not the code but simply who approved what, the appeals, the submission and response deadline. It was often arduous and complicated with numerous flow arrows. The core of rules on infrastructure building were usually not the thing holding it back. It was almost always the structure of who approves or rejects proposals.
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>>1305729
Skip to 5:40 to see the old permitting chart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ordNSCV_-FA
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>>1305383
The added lanes actually increased development. One thing to remember is that the Dfw metroplex is the 4th largest and constantly growing. Our population and economy have not been stagnant. Traffic flow has improved, but we still have a couple of spots that could use express lanes (eastern I-820 north and south, western section of 820 from I-35w) or are currently congested due to construction (to-360 at I-30). Everywhere else that had express lanes put in has seen a much better traffic flow. The back roads are still an option, but not as fast due to traffic lights vs heavy traffic.
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>>1305744
Dallas Metropolex only have something like 6 million populations. Many modern cities around the world have 20 Millions upward
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>>1305383
>Look up "induced demand"
Meme invented by urbanist bugmen. There is only supply an demand. If demand outstrips supply, bugmen squawk "induced demand! induced demand!"
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>>1305387
Not true. They work fine in certain situations.

>>1305392
>The Northeast would not be as much of an economic powerhouse as it is today without rail.
Freight rail maybe
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>>1305824
That's the most retarded thing I ever heard, please jump in front of a carpool lane.
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>>1305830
Not an argument
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>>1305830
>>1305824
Your just a hater that he is smarter than every planner, engineer, and anyone who has taken a single economics course.
Lmao
>>
>>1304133
>>1305827
I stopped responding to your shitty fucking "arguments" days ago because you're too dense to be reasoned with and when confronted with facts blindly state the contrary.

Rail lines in the 19th century extended into every nook and hollow in Appalachia bringing urbanites to the hundreds of inns and tourist attractions in the mountains. Rail lines to move coal went as far as they could in the mountains in the coal belt. First you said the US isn't conducive to passenger rail travel, now you say, "well freight only ackshully!!!! Shut the fuck up, fucking imbecile.
>>
>>1305837
>appealing to authority this hard


>>1305844
>I stopped responding to your shitty fucking "arguments" days ago
Not true. You're responding now

>First you said the US isn't conducive to passenger rail travel
I didn't say that but it is true. Only a few areas are.

>Shut the fuck up, fucking imbecile.
Nope
>>
>>1305165
pushing it but might as count since where i'm from most of the dams along the Mississippi have boat elevators
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>>1305383
I guess we should rip out bike lanes too
>tfw talking to someone that hates all forms of transportation
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>>1305815
Yep and unlike some of those other metro areas, our traffic is tolerable. Ask Los Angeles how their traffic is. Or New York City.
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>>1305824
Didn’t someone earlier say if you make rail nicer, people will use it? Wouldn’t this be an example of “induced demand”?

If making mass transit better makes more people use it, wouldn’t making roadways better also invite more users?

I don’t think that the term is wrong, I think the motives and applications of that term are simply devices to be used in favor of an anti car agenda.

The proponents of mass transit tend to be statists. The idea of individual independent travel is something they hate. Rail for example is immobile, once in it, you can dictate where people live and work. Similarly airplanes also have a bit more freedom of movement, they can go anywhere at any time pending that there is a runway. The Independent private bus also fits this concept, though consumer demand indicates that nobody likes sharing travel arrangements for more than a few hours.

But I notice, that there is always a bias against the vehicles that have the ability to go anywhere at any time, and always a favourable oppinion on vehicles that are confined to specific tech and locations (trains of all types)
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>>1305847
>rail is only good in specific areas
A point I stated as well. But most other areas it tends to be a barrel full of burning $100 bills and wouldn’t be around if private investors built it. Also, as I pointed out, densely populated areas have done everything legislatively to prevent competition in the transit arena. New York banned for profit car pooling. Other cities would love to get people to car pool, in New York, they stopped it because they competed with taxis.

This is the real problem with the anti car agenda is that it plays into the hands of power hungry corrupt beaurocrats who don’t have our best interests at heart. And mass transit is a means to take advantage of our weakness, which is why the anti car agenda is so strong.
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>>1305849
Texas put in some useless bike lanes that are comically dangerous in a couple of the suburbs. I guess the Obama admin gave municipalities grants or something. I honestly don’t see why they even bothered putting them in, they go nowhere.
>>
>>1305824
I don't really agree with the term "induced demand" since its kinda a bad faith argument but I can see the reasoning behind it a little.
Driving away from infrastructure for a bit "induced demand" in a supply and demand scenario in the roughest sense of the word would be the same as a business encouraging the demand for more people to buy their product by finding ways to sell said product at a lower rate.
Back to highways, maybe I've been misrepresenting what most people say when they cite "induced demand", but the most reasonable(ish) train of logic that's not "Muh Roads ar bad" has been along the lines of
>Since it's not run as a business, the government has no incentives to meet the most optimal equilibrium point of supply and demand model
>As such it's able to produce a supply (roads) at a artificially lowered price that would bankrupt any normal business to ensure that so long as there's any more demand even remotely available, it will bend over backwards to ensure it meet it
>>
>>1305847
I never thought of a high school junior who took an economics class as an "authority" but okay.
>>
>Extend the Cottage Grove branch of the CTA Green Line
>Bring back the station at University/63rd
>Keep it going until it intersects with the Metra Electric train
>Have a transfer with Metra trains at the 63rd and 67th Stops
>Auxiliary entrance at Dorchester for the 63rd Stop
>Have the Green Line assume the responsibilities of the South Chicago branch of Metra Electric

Good idea or no?
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>>1305918
Houston has some areas that need express lanes (US-290)
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>>1305911
Those digits.

Anyway, yes government uses infrastructure as a way to promote economic activity (trade). Even the founding fathers saw that promotion of trade between the state’s and prohibition against trade embargoes between the states as a reason behind the interstate commerce clause. Roads promote trade. We all benefit from their use, but I think there is plenty of room as to argue about the best way to fund their creation, maintenance, and the manner that they are constructed.
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>>1305964
I assume that it has to be an improvement since most mass transit systems are total dogshit and barely useful. Please provide an illustration of your work.
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>>1306015

https://i.imgur.com/67Tpsup.png

Quick n Dirty shoop of what it might look like. Imgur link because the filesize is a beast.
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>>1306049
Pretty cool. Connectors where there are none always make a system better.
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>>1306063
Thanks, man!
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>>1305316
>things don't fail if failure is not beneficial for you!
That's why no private corporation has ever went bankrupt, right? That libtard cringe bluepilled Blockbuster died because of evil gubbimint intervention.
Praise kek, kekistani bro.
>>
>>1306441
In what part of Latin America do you live in where you've never heard of Netflix?
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>>1306441
“In the free market, business failure is just as vital as business success. It tells you that what you are doing is wrong!”- Walter E Williams
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>>1306480
Some of these people are purposefully ignorant.
>>
China is going to construct a new high speed rail between Sichuan and Lhasa, which will further connect to Kathmandu via another construction project. Because of the difficult terrain, the entire ~1000km long line will compose of ~80% tunnels and another ~13% bridges.
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>>1306524
I bet they don’t have a limited access high between those two areas do they? What’s the connectivity like between those two cities?
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>>1306536
>I bet they don’t have a limited access high between those two areas do they?
They are building a new one, last time I checked
>What’s the connectivity like between those two cities?
To be exact, the two end points of the planned rail line will be Ya'an, Sichuan and Lhasa, Tibet. There is a road that connect the two cities together, which isn't particular great from transportation point of view, but that's still one of the few roads that connect Tibet to the out side word which was constructed after overcoming many engineering challenges, and because the road is rather scenic so there are also many tourists who spend a number of days to drive between the two cities. And of course, the route is also a key military supply route just like all other routes into Tibet that can reinforce China's military presence in the area and defense against local rebellion or foreign military action from countries like India.
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>>1306564
Further information on the existing road:
http://discover.china.org.cn/guides/a-driving-tour-along-the-318-national-highway/
https://www.dangerousroads.org/asia/china/319-national-highway-318-china.html
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>>1306564
Looks like hell
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>>1306524
Who the fuck cares, it's unlawful occupation of Tibet

>>1306567
>And of course, the route is also a key military supply route just like all other routes into Tibet that can reinforce China's military presence in the area and defense against local rebellion or foreign military action from countries like India.

there it is


I can't wait for the coming global recession to fuck the CCP forever
>>
>>1306591
Evil infrastructure are still infrastructure
>>
;_;
the future we could have had.
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>>1306756
0-walkability/10
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There was a partial collapse of an overpass at the I-75/I-24 directional-T interchange in Chattanooga, TN... no injuries, authorities are looking to see if a vehicle might have caused it.

This interchange was built when the system was constructed and a replacement project was slated to begin later this year but might be accelerated. I have used this interchange many times and it needed to be modernized at least 20 years ago.
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>>1306591
Personally can’t wait for China to collapse under its public debt desu
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>>1303979
the Alberta and BC governments love this retarded kind of compound roundabout for some reason, there's another one half an hour north of me (Saanichton) that's equally inscrutable. However, mine goes one further and manages to fit a bus exchange in the centre
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>>1306480
Are you trying to prove my point, or are you trying to imply Netflix is a corporation created by the US government?
>>1306508
Yeah but for whatever reason your quote doesn't apply to government funded companies. You gotta stop licking corporate ass and admit anything that's managed by people can fail, be it public, private or whatever. You're just as blind as the "statists" you hate so much.
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>>1307850
Damn that bridge should have been replaced years ago!
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>>1307898
No, failure doesn’t happen when you can point guns at people and force them to pay for a terrible project.
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>>1307958
>he doesn’t know about the CCCP
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>>1307956
Yeah it was built in 1959 when that part of the interstate was. Left hand entrance/exits and sharp curves. Semis flip there a few times a year.
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>>1307974
Yes, eventually you run out of other people’s money. But it takes forever
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>>1308014
That shit sucks. Dfw has pretty much redone their interstates due to the toll roads being constructed as a private option.
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>>1308041
Yeah like I said before people really wanted this interchanged rebuilt 20+ years ago. TDOT will probably make it bigger but not really improve the design like they did with the Hwy 53 interchange a couple of miles up I-75.
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>>1308052
I hope Trumps red tape cutting gets these road situations fixed. Every state and location has really dropped the ball when it comes to managing simple infrastructure like a road. They almost are always so willing to steal money from highways to fund mass transit systems that are over priced and only serve a small percentage of the population. Hopefully making it easier to build a new road, train, airport, subway, or whatever will fix this problem.
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>>1308078
States frequently get 80% of highway expansion costs covered by the feds and then nothing for maintenance. States drop the ball on maintaining their system. If there is federal money for maintenance it goes to the areas in the worst condition which is almost an incentive to run your roads into disrepair.

All transportation in the US is subsidized and highways are no exception. The level of acceptable subsidy runs into a values discussion. Not everyone can afford a car. If you take their Transit away then they can’t work and you’re paying their welfare indefinitely. Not raising the gas tax in 25+ years is a negligent policy and a large contributor to a lack of money in the Highway Trust Fund.
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>>1308096
Most people aren’t city dwellers, even illegal immigrants can afford a car.
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>>1308096
You raise a great point about the funding and a lack of accountability for the states. This I agree with. Kansas has kept I-35 tolled simply because they don’t have enough people to tax in order to pay for the maintenance when most of the traffic is drive through.
>>
what is the motivation behind anti-transitards?

nobody is going to take away your right to drive muh car, such a thing is not even remotely feasible from a political standpoint anyway
it would actually make traffic on roads better since there would be less people driving

inb4
>muh tax dollars
>muh property values
>muh dark skins
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>>1305386
This. Pedestrians have no place at interchanges and multi-lane roundabouts.

>>1307891
>retarded kind of compound roundabout
It's not. It's cheaper, smaller, less complex traffic-intensive.
>File: mctavish.jpg (62 KB, 700x464)
Here you have multiple roads connecting with the interchange. A single circular roundabout would be a big clusterfuck and waste, only less worse with an angled pinched roundabout = dogbone interchange
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>>1308144
They are completly and utterly blind to the negative impact a car has on it's surrounding.
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>>1308144
I think there's an element of rampant projection going on, as well.

>some people who like public transport want to ban cars
>THEREFORE EVERYBODY WHO USES PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS MY ENEMY

I mean, it's the crux of fringieposter's arguments whenever that tumour decides to show up.
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>>1308228
I am not against mass transit, I just hate when it is a government lead initiative simply because it often costs way more than a simple road, has inconvenient operation times, has government employment practices that gives jobs to incompetent morons and pays them way more than they are worth, will often have a day that it won’t run (Sunday), and often isn’t 24/7, and often in not so dense cities, it is slower than cars.

My preference would be:

1. Alllow private bus and van rideshares to operate.

2. Let virtually anyone operate an unregulated enter at your own risk taxi service along with having a regulated official service.

3. If we just have to waste money, then I want a subsidized shinook helicopter service picking up a various heliports and delivering to the roofs of downtown.


But mostly I tend to be against rail operations since they are fixed and can only go one direction at a time. I’ve attempted to use them and it just can’t beat the convenience that a car gives on traffics worst day. It has a host of reasons, but mostly it is due to having to go out of the way to get to the train station only to have to wait for the train and then what would have been a 40 minute drive with backroads or shitty traffic on the highways take about 45 minutes in the train. The only time DFW’s rails have been useful to me has been when going to the American Airlines arena. The only people that I’ve seen riding as regulars have been those working at the hospital or in either downtown as they’ve had a convenient stop. But mostly it is an overpriced inconvenient novelty. Heck, I’ve even delivered red dye diesel to them. Had the maintenance manager see an Amtrak pass by and he said that he heard that Amtrak barely maintains their trains. It was an interesting thing to see, and I have some affinity’s for the TRE, but it is mostly a white elephant at this point.
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>>1308144
The very idea of making cities more desirable to live in is immensely ***triggering*** to the conservative mind. That and a firm belief that no one has ever successfully used mass transit in a city in any way, and if they did, they're a gullible schmuck who fell for shlomo's master plan.
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>>1308330
>Its inconvenient for me even though I saw all these other people using it so its obviously shit and just a novelty
imagine being this retarded
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>>1308334
It has limited audience. You pretty much have to work in downtown or at the hospital in Irving to be able to have a use for it. The only time I found it useful was for events at the AAC simply because it was cheaper than parking. I attempted to use it to get to Love field and it was a bit of a hassle.

But the main gripe is that this thing doesn’t actually save time, and if the damn thing runs over anyone (which it has) the whole operation gets shutdown and busses show up to remove everyone.

Mass transit systems only work if the population is dense enough and you intentionally sabotage the roads. The fact that sabataging roads in order to compete tells me rail as an option is less appealing than busses. I’d hinestly rather see school busses taking people places than more rail. The stuff is a nightmare due to how much dfw’s rail lines have been built around in areas where rail does exist.
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>>1308342
>Its inconvenient for me even though I saw all these other people using it so its obviously shit and just a novelty
imagine still being this retarded
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>>1308362
It isn’t faster even if you live next to the station and if you have a stop that is right next to any of the stations. It’s ridership is low and has a very slim appeal. These people either don’t want to drive themselves and they don’t mind the extra amount of time that it takes to get to work. But the cars on a weekday are mostly empty. That’s the point, the city subsidizes this and its ridership appeals to very few customers. I’ve attempted to like it, ride it, and justify it. But it is a white elephant. At this point it would have been better to have busses run the same routes.
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>>1308366
Oh, and the thing doesn’t run on Sundays. (My biggest complaint)
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>>1303979
I fucking hate this interchange so much. No one has any fucking clue how it works, including me, so it's always a complete shit show.
>>
Reply to this post or your proposed mass transit project does due to environmental impact study.
>>
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@1309611
Good riddance Orange Line in Minneapolis. Can't even sustain weekend bus service before it opens, you'll be a white elephant and just another tool to stop actually decent transit expansion. The land use just doesn't support all-week, all-day transit. Rail transit would have been even worse.
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>>1308367
Probably because ridership is so low on Sundays that they'd rather not bleed money running. This is also not typical of transit systems. Most do run on Sundays. It's also a benefit, not a drawback, to have hours when the system doesn't run, as this provides time in very low ridership hours for essential maintenance to be done without impacting the commuters who provide the bulk of the income. 24/7 running is part of the reason NYC's metro is such a shitfest of breakdowns.

>>1308342
With even a half-assed system, it would save time over traffic. Atlanta's for example is terrible, but it will still get you downtown or to the airport quicker than sitting in traffic on I-285/I-75/I-85, and also means you don't have to deal with fucked city streets.

>and if the damn thing runs over anyone (which it has)
No heavy rail or subway should have grade crossings anywhere near the metro area. And drivers should not be fucking retards who ignore train signals. Even with grade crossings, this is not the train's fault. Maybe if it kills enough lemmings the rest will learn?

>Mass transit systems only work... and you intentionally sabotage the roads
Absolutely false, but you've already shown you're a biased cager that thinks just because it isn't useful in your specific circumstance means it cannot be useful to anyone.
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>>1309635
Even the people that it is useful for, it is still faster in traffic to drive from station point to station point in a car. The thing is that damn slow. Believe me, I’ve tried to justify this thing. I only have two uses for it: getting to love field when I am by myself and getting to the American Airlines arena. And in both cases: it is slower than car in heavy traffic
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>>1309635
(Probably) Sunday when NFL and baseball could bus massive amounts of people to the stadium from train stations. Doesn’t happen because of politics
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*blocks your path*
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>>1310047
Hisssssssss!
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>>1308330
>I am not against mass transit, I just hate when it is a government lead initiative simply because it often costs way more than a simple road

IF you build the system right, it can at least make money back (note that transit systems are not solely designed to make a profit, especially when positive externalities such as economic development are taken into account). A huge majority of roads in the world don't recoup any money whatsoever. The "gas tax" helps but is now being understood as a failure since a) it's never enough at current levels, and b) the rise of hybrids, EVs, and cheaper fuel are actually starting to have a noticeable impact on tax revenue. The exception is toll roads but these are not everywhere. Also in urban environments there's no such thing as a simple road. Look at the BQE plans in NYC right now. It will cost literally billions of dollars to rehab a small stretch of this thing.

All that being said, it is unfortunate that metro construction in the US seems to always cost a lot compared to some other places. On that point look up that really good article by the NYT about the 2nd Avenue subway, they go into all the major points on why that thing blew it's budget by an ungodly amount.
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>>1305849
No, bike and bus lanes can create "modal shifts" where you have people who were taking cars switch to other methods which are more efficient. I would argue inducing more cycling and transit use is a good thing. Consider how cheap it is to build a bike lane, so even if you induce usage and it hits capacity, so what? Expand the lane. It costs pennies on the dollar compared to highway construction.
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>>1305631
>The part that you are missing is that the trains can’t beat the car
Says who? It just needs to be planned right. You can make it better than cars and many cities where transit >>>>>>>>> cars prove it. Multiple stops isn't an issue if you have express trains or lines which bypass many stops. A lot of this is heavily related to stuff like zoning and density which can help/hinder transit planning. So yes there may actually be areas where the zoning is so fucked that transit is not possible yet unless the zoning is fixed.
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>>1310445
Please show an example where this is true. New York is the only place in the US where it is possible, but in DFW, the train can’t compete.
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>>1304075
It's supposed to symbolize a Native American basket
The overpass is part of the Metro Gold line which is has a lovely view once it separates from the freeway.
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>>1306756
Why can't high rise buildings have pedestrian bridges connecting them?
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>>1310616
There is one in downtown Fort Worth like this, but it’s only 20 feet off the ground. I know japan has a highway passing through a downtown building which is cool. I like the idea.
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>>1310598
In Australia a lot of cities underwent the same post-war sprawl as in the US but with the exception of keeping most of their passenger rail lines, so here are some examples during rush hour:
Cranbourne-Melbourne (45km) is 1hr by train, but up to 2hrs by car.
Parramatta-Sydney (25km) is 30min by train, but up to 1.5hrs by car.

The train is more consistent and runs to a timetable, and travel time by car is more unpredictable due to traffic, parking etc. And you have to remember every person on a train, bus or tram means one less car on the road. Recently, there's been large investment into extensions of existing public transport systems (Regional Rail Link, South West Rail Link, Metronet etc) and new networks (Sydney Metro, Suburban Rail Loop...) into growth corridors, because the existing roads can't handle the amount of population growth. Investing into good public transport is far more efficient than more roads, simply because of how many people it can transport.
>>
I'm currently on the Manx electric railway and this thing is amazing and terrifying. 100+ years old and it's still going (don't know how)
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>>1310685
Old electric systems are rather simple and rudimentary, they're not all that hard to keep running if you put some love (and cash) into it.
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>>1310640
So basically you guys don’t have a lot of good controlled access highways? I’ll have to look into that system, if it is direct without multiple stops, then that would make sense. Then comes the question, if you have to drive to the station, how often does the train come and would it be faster to just keep going towards town instead of waiting?

Part of my concern is that you’d have to sabotage the roads in order for transit to compete (in the us outside of the northeast)
>>
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>>1310640
Fucking DENSE. My god how slow do people drive there?
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>>1310616
Minneapolis and St Paul have skyways, but like >>1310635, they are only a couple stories up. They aren't a sidewalk replacement either, as most, if not all, close overnight.
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>>1311031
MSP and DFW are twins. We are the only cities that have twin interstates with letter designators I-35W&E(not counting the I-69 triplets, or my potential idea to make I-35C)
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>>1311051
You mean the I-94 triplets in 394, 494, and 694.
And really the only cities that split the same interstate in the same fashion? Neat
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>>1311084
Spurs and loops don’t count. But yeah we have mirrored interstates.
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>>1311084
And I-35 is the last one to have letter designator other than I-69
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>>1310780
In DFW, Transit was sabotaged so roads could remain supreme.
>>
>>1311094
Roads>transit
Speedlets BTFO’d

Think about it... Aussies always on /pol/ with threads about how expensive houses are, show examples of million dollar homes that’d sell for $290,000 in Texas. Can’t drive 80mph. Have to wait for train. Train drives 30mph. Have to ride with Mohammed bin Chinky. Potential terrorist trap. Youth can’t get jobs. Texas builds roads, has traffic, but builds nonetheless. Has toll lanes for rich and idiots, free lanes only 10 minutes slower at worst. Still btfo’s Transit. Why? Because freedom>slavery. The train has a schedule, the car is your servant.
>>
>>1311094
Honestly if I was dictator of DOT, Trinity Metro, and DART I’d privatize the busses and let gov run the stupid train. I’d put a shit ton of parking at the DFW North station and I’d run the train 7 days a week doing track maintenance at nights. I’d run busses in Lue of the train. I’d also have the busses take people from trains to AT&T for special events so that traffic could be reduced.
>>
>>1310780
>>1311016
>>1311098
Australia doesn't really "sabotage" the roads per se, we just didn't build as much of them. I like to think that Australia is a model of what the US could have looked like if they weren't as car-dependent after WW2 - we still have more freeways than Europe but also a robust public transport system with trains, trams (in Melbourne) and buses.

As much as we complain about them our trains are pretty good - 3-5 minute frequency on the busier lines in peak, and 10-20min frequency offpeak, so in some places you don't need the timetable. It only drops to hourly late nights, when they're running. Most people walk or take bus/tram to the train station, but some do drive - and carparks are usually full before 7 or 8 am. Unlike the US, we have electrified double track as standard for suburban rail, so trains are reasonably fast, and frequent in both directions throughout the day. You get express services for outer suburbs too, but also stopping trains. US commuter rail like in your picture just seems hopeless desu.

We also have a lot less speeding culture as well - typically you don't have much leeway over the limit (100km/h) before you get booked. Most of the time in heavy traffic you'd never get anywhere near that, though.

Our housing problems are a different problem entirely - mostly because our economy has been built on the back of house investments for the last few decades, so property prices keep rising and nothing is really being done to combat it because it would probably pull us into a recession. Housing prices are ridiculously over-inflated at the moment but should start to lower following the election this year.

Also, isn't the real freedom the ability to choose between a car and a train, if you want to?
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>>1311109
>”real freedom” is the ability to choose between car and train
I suppose such a terrible duopoly can also extend to real freedom being the ability to choose between a vagina and another man’s ass.
>>
>>1311109
>what the US could have been
Isn’t Western Australia similar to Arizona in layout and car culture? I’m thinking something like Perth. I also want to drive a road train.
>>
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I bring some news from Southeastern Asia Railway Infrastructures

Quadruple Track has debuted its operational status today in Jakarta, Indonesia. Second Double-Track activation are consisted of railway signal switchover, replacing and moving signal blocks and recalibration of station signals to adapt with new two lanes added. Absolutely clusterfuck as the switchover was conducted during office days, hundreds of thousands of commuters are arriving late due to enormous delay (1 hour delay)
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>>1311016
Thats rush hour mate, where everything is stuffed and completly crappy. Half of the time you'll be standing in a traffic jam or something

Besides, 1 hour for about 30 miles of travel inna city sounds like they've activly sabotaged the rail. Seriously, Dortmund -> Duisburg is done in 40 minutes and it's 10 miles longer. You need 50 minutes to do the same trip by car while driving on the Autobahn.
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>>1313207
God damn, fuck rails seem simple and then become more complicated when you try to make them better
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>>1313214
They put too many stops, have one train run at a time. Rail in DFW is retarded, there is no point in it. Just a big government barrel full of twenty dollar bills on fire.
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>>1313214
The speed limit on cars on that route?
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>>1311120
Australia as a whole has a massive car culture.
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>>1313376
I want my own Holden UTE.

Which of course is known as an El Camino in the US. Not sure why they ever stopped making them here.
>>
Train propaganda!?

https://mobile.twitter.com/amandaasette/status/1116388881253969920?s=21
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>>1313587
Get yourself a used Subaru Outback Baja
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>>1304930
Dude, look at the buildings in top left, the age of the rails, and the URL. This is post-Communist Poland
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>>1314077
Thanks, now we know where it is.
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So, why aren't more roads and rails being built elevated on pillars in areas not affected by earthquakes?

Aside from maybe not looking nice, I can't see that many cons.
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>>1315515
The unfathomable wrecks that happen with elevation.

t. seen a motorcyclist laying on ground because he ran off an off ramp bridge.
>>
>>1315515
in fairness, I had an idea to build a toll road elevated above a rail line from downtown Fort Worth to Northern Tarrant county. Similar to the Dallas North Tollway. But it would have to be mostly elevated due to the rail lines.
>>
>>1315515
Cost quite much more than just build on the ground. Also maintenance fee
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>>1315525
Even in hilly terrain? The cost of leveling out terrain (mostly bedrock) for roads here (Norway) costs a fucking fortune.
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>>1315515
Cost
>>
this exchange finna make me cuuuum
>>
Why can’t we have mass transit chinooks?
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>>1311016
Why the fuck are those idiots only running a train every 60 minutes? A more solid frequency would be every 15.

And making it go faster than a pushbike would be a good idea too.
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>>1315843
You are referred to >>1315546
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>>1316410
The government doesn’t actually try to make the thing work well. It’s also closed on Sundays.

It could be more competitive, but the desire for that is not there.
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>>1316413
True, found this as well: https://boingboing.net/2017/08/12/why-we-dont-commute-with-hel.html


New York ruining private mass transit as always.
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>>1315515
That's a bridge approach ramp.
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>>1304050
>if we make it illegal people wont do it

why are e*ros like this?
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>>1304002
based
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>>1305740
i came
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>>1316641
Hi john stossel. Nice that you joined us.
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>>1316638
In fairness, nobody in Europe had died of a heroin overdose or been shot due to legality of guns and heroin. I think...

Shit got both wrong.
>>
File: the magic of swindon.jpg (242 KB, 1093x888)
242 KB
242 KB JPG
>>1303979
>peak performance
Swindon
>>
>>1319041
I actually want to drive on that.



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