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Public transport obsession edition

Last thread got lost on pg 10

How dedicated are you to your local public transportation company, anon?
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The great debate:
Which tram is best? (Clockwise)
Urbos vs Flexity vs Citadis vs Combino
Moin Dulli, was geht

Is it enough that I ride their trams every day and vastly prefer their busses over the DB subsidiary busses that also operate in my city? I never bought any model trams or other fan merchandise though, I'm not a nerd.
It's a tie between the Citadis and the Combino for me.
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Urbos has the best design, but the real winner isn't on your list
>all of them fixed bogies pleb-tier

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Inside the Croydon, London tram
Is that a conductor/service staff onboard (next to the door)?
No, Southern is a heavy rail operator, he's just a worker going home
That doesn't look nearly brown enough to be London proper.
End yourself
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Who else here PASSIONATELY loves the tra/n/sportation marvel that is Stadtbahn Hannover?
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"HE 125" belongs to the transit authority.

It's colloquial name is "pioneer vehicle", because it is specially built for protecting the right of way. In practise this means using it's winching an jacking equipment (also good for rerailing trams) to remove misparked cars or as now -safety earthing.

The people who drive it are called "trick men" because the multitude of jobs they have to do on top of being mechanics.
Hannover is a great, but very underrated city.
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OP here
glad to know I'm not the only üstra-obsessed person here

To add more diversity to this thread:
New Taipei City recently launched the Danhai LRT, with rolling stock manufactured by TRSC in cooperation with Voith Engineering (Germany), making it the first tram in Taiwan that were altmost entirely domestically built.
Modernized Tatra T3 from Croatian city of Osijek
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I like more how classic Tatras look.
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Tram connection will be voted again in city hall at the end of January.
The one significant political party that's supposedly pro-tram but voted against it last time has a changed leadership now. New guy seems more open to vote in favour after they got some flak last time.
The fake news media has taken notice and anti-tram smear campaign is in full force.
>it's afraid
what are some reasons anyone would be anti-tram?
>bashing the current mayor
>pro-car shilling
>being a literal fucktard
Picture for ants?
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Low floor trams were a mistake
Ableist scum. How am I supposed to ride my mobility scooter onto the tram?
I'm glad I live on Line 2 so I can use this tram instead of the modern abomination used elsewhere.
I posted that image and even I actually believe this is the correct answer. This is my actual favourite tram. Maybe we're in need a of a classic tram duel...
Well actually the mid section is low floor-ish with ramps at both doors so wheeled scum can still ride.
I've had to deal with TAN operationnal staff a couple years back. Thank god they're in no hurry the shelf those.
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At the turn of the year Helsinki got rid of its Variotrams. The pleasant side effect is that the trams have sped up from crawling over diamonds and switches, which shallow groove, you see - we are very traditional, from something like 10 km/h to 25 ish.

The Variotrams just weren't made with that thing in mind either with their 'individually suspended wheels'. The old as well as the new trams will cross switches with just slight wobble and 'clikety-click', the Varios _rumbled_.

Pic: when your utility van is based on fire truck this sort of thing becomes possible in a pinch. Plus, they need some pretty hefty equipment, because they need to move cars and rerail trams on top of being experts on fixing all the probles that leave a vehicle laying dead on the line.
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Alright /n/, let's have the difficult talk:
PCC car vs DÜWAG gelenkwagen

captcha: select all images with buses.....
Sorry but Düwag stands no chance in this
The PCC is literally the greatest tram ever made.
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Tatras are better.
Early ones even had even this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6HzRcBEGWg
PCC:s had an elaborate rotary rheostat and elaborate servo-controlled pedal for power control. Meanwhile the trusty old Düwag had fixed resistor bank and rotary carbon carbon brush controller which was completely 'manual'.

Meanwhile, on the roof of respective trams there wold be a trolley pole and fairly moder carbon brush pantograph.

Conservatism in different ways.
Tatra trams are based on the PCC streetcar
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Those trolley poles were only there because the US was extremely late to the pantograph party though. European PCCs like pic related do have panto's, which I heard is considered blasphemy by some die hard PCC fans
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DUEWAG all the way

RIP my city's system
Yes, but I haven't heard of PCC performing emergency stop by itself.
>PCC:s had an elaborate rotary rheostat and elaborate servo-controlled pedal for power control.
Just like tatra.
That is a weird tatra.
Trolleypoles are fine for trams. Pantographs are a total meme. Wiring is much simpler and cheaper for poles, it doesn't even need to be well tensioned. And poles are much cheaper and simpler to maintain than pantos.
The only advantages for pantos is no wire frogs and no dewiring.
Now, I know we have this discussion every thread but...

May I put it to you that dewiring is a massive time waster not worth having around, and also that the trolley pole must be reversed. Both of these are wastes of time as far as operation is concerned.

I've also never heard of pantographs pulling down wires in a storm either, unlike what happened in Toronto.
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Poles are also a pain in the ass in bidirectional operation though
nvm, >>1274766 already said everything
my refresh button didn't do its job
Can any other city even compete?
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This map (or its later variants) will always beat the new one they made which coloured every line in its individual colour as if anyone cared and rotated it to be more geographic. Some day I may get motivated enough to redraw this one as a vector of my own and update it to include route changes like route 58.

Problems with pic related:
* It makes you bend your head crooked looking at it
* It's just barely easier to follow a tram route along its length
* It's got the CBD rotated but the roads not on magnetic north, so to fix it they have to add an angle down Chapel St that doesn't exist
* The suburb information is not useful in a digital environment, rather it wastes space. In a digital environment, you're probably using a journey planner anyway, and it just makes you want to zoom in heaps. In a printed environment, if you don't know what route tram to take and what stop to get off at before you get on the tram, you're going to get lost anyway.
* They've removed information rather than adding it. Railway stations are still there but they removed the landmarks like Etihad, Hospitals, The Zoo; and most egregiously the street names and CBD grid.
* Highly subject to taste: I find the old font more legible
* Can't even properly tell route 58 stops at Domain Interchange

Very hard to think of positives:
* Adding more interchange spots. Though not very helpful because most aren't named unlike they were on the old map.
* Removed the odd curve on route 67 south end (looks a bit different on the later copy)
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Yes. Sydney may have demolished its old tram network (which they are hastily rebuilding) but it was there before Melbourne and was much better. Dab on them Victorians amirite :)
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*blocks your path*
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Why did they remove not so old modern, low floor trams? It looks insane for me removing them
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>the trolley pole must be reversed
All the cool kids have pole reversers: https://youtube.com/watch?v=rPuJSeDyyVI
It ain't all gone, Philadelphia hangs onto the largest network in the United states.
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>dewiring is a massive time waster
Dewiring won't happen if the system is well maintained. I lived in Mexico City for a few years, took the trolleybus almost daily and never once saw a dewiring. Stop with your fucktarded meme already.
>also that the trolley pole must be reversed
Oh no the driver has to spend literally one minute reversing the pole, he won't be able to smoke his cigarette and take a dump while waiting at the end of the line, what a tragedy, better spend tens of thousands of dollars more for pantographs.
>I've also never heard of pantographs pulling down wires in a storm either, unlike what happened in Toronto.
So you say in a city where trams use trolleypoles the pantographs don't pull down wires? Color me surprised.
Pantographs pull down wires just as much as poles if not more, and when they do the damage is much worse as both pantos and panto wiring is more complex and expensive.
They didnt really never fit well with the Helsinki tram network. Since the beginning there were issues with the bogies and derailments. Even though eventually Bombardier agreed to "fix" those issues they still persisted over the years. In 2018 the contract with Bombardier ended and they basically offered to buy the trams back wich was a good deal for HSL and HKL
yeah turns out that modern tram """bogies""" are shit at staying railed
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Good cable management
What's wrong with Helsinki tram network?
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Trackage: Route length 65 * 2 = 130
Routes: 6
Vehicles: 94
Annual patronage (includes buses): 116,500,000

Passengers (2016): 310,958
Routes: 15
Trackage: 200 km
Vehicles: 200 - decreased from 206. Is this due to more articulated units or removal of older stock?
Annual patronage: 113,500,000


Yarra Trams:
Trackage: 250 km
Routes: 24
Vehicles: 501 - includes many non-articulated units, but the sheer number of vehicles makes up for that.
Annual patronage: 200,000,000

Not to mention Melbourne covers a much larger geographic area than either of the above, yet stil generates a lot of trips in the centre where its trams are despite the numbers of people who commute from as far as Geelong, Cranbourne, Frankston, etc.

Wikipedia +
CTS: https://www.cts-strasbourg.eu/en/about-cts/at-a-glance/
GVB: "Samen naar een hogere versnelling"
Yarra Trams: https://yarratrams.com.au/facts-figures
Forgot to cite properly: "Samen naar een hogere versnelling" (Jaarverslag GVB Holding NV, 2016)
ref p.28
>Vehicles: 200 - decreased from 206. Is this due to more articulated units or removal of older stock?
Current number is 201, gradually decreased from 238 10 years ago. Reason is the oldest 9G/10G series has been sent to the scrapyard with no replacement, resulting in ebin rolling stock shortages rn. Luckily, the first of a series of 63 new CAF's will arrive soon. They are meant solely as fleet expansion and bring the number back up to 264.

>Yarra Trams
>Trackage: 250 km
Isn't that just the route length?

These 3 are all top tier networks though:

Melbournes network is epic for its vastness. It's the biggest in the world which is even more impressive because it's located in a part of the world where almost all other tram systems have been demolished decades ago.

Amsterdams system is extremely dense. Every anywhere-near-major street has trams running through it resulting in almost no buses except for the outskirts and suburbs. Melbourne may have twice as much trams but has 5 times as much inhabitants and is 8 times as large.

Strasbourg may seem mediocre looking at the network length but it's all brand new. 25 years ago they would have been on the loser board for having not a single tram left. Now they have a rather complete network and still growing.
Best fucking subway design ever
>loudest fucking subway design ever
fixed it for you
Too many sharp corners combined with elevation changes etc. The new Finnish made artic trams work really well because of free-turning bogies.
Nothing to do with trams (streetcars, trolleys). Here, have a real San Francisco streetcar.


yeah, no
This is münchen right?
Your trams are so t h i c c
Nice tram, I see the design is similar to Bombardier trams in Berlin
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yep, old Munich tram, they also had a thin type
How T H I C C is that? 2,65m?
>Now they have a rather complete network and still growing.
also the city only has a population of 300k
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>Having to use paint to hide the name so you don't get exposed
Clearly, even you know BART is shit.
that's only who lives within the city boundaries of strassburg though. the network is serving the metropolitan area which has close to a million inhabitants
If it ain't grade separated, it ain't worth it.
The problem is the PPA doesn't do their fucking job and ticket and tow people. It's fucking ridiculous, they hand out tickets in center city like candy but wont fucking tow a goddamned stranded car
Low quality ROW; trams stuck in traffic everywhere.

Best system is Budapest.
Public transportation is a joke which need more and more roads in the US. There's only a few cities that might need it like New York City but the left are communist in the USA and want to force everyone into a bus. They hate the fact that standard of living for The Average Joe's American is upper middle-class compared to the rest of the world if not rich. So they want to tax you out of your car in the name of saving the planet. All their Solutions will drive up costs but many donors to the Democrats and the left will make trillions of dollars on the trains buses solar panels wind turbines and all the other green bulshit. That's how Al Gore get rich
Don't reply to that post ^
But das wronk doe. Grade separation only pays off with metro systems. The more independent ROW the tram gets, the better. But grade separation for light rail is usually too much
2,35 m
It's not as bad as you think, where they do share the lane with cars (not all that frequent that they do), they have all kinda of priorities set up that fuck the drivers over
It's not that thicc....
Nothing is worth it if you don't do what's necessary to make it work. Where I live you get a massive penalty if you block tram traffic, so drivers don't dare to even slow down near a track. US cities that are trying to reintroduce trams really should visit Europe more often because we have almost a century of experiece keeping cagers off the tracks.
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Busy season.

This service costs 100€ plus any coincidental wear and tear.
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It doesn't cover the full expense but is an improvement considering that up until few years ago any towing done by the transit authority was free of charge because of stupid bureaucracy.
Would it be worth the trouble to transition to double decks (multi car) if the system meets the demand?
"London propper" is whiter
Croydon has lots of blacks but they are mostly concentrated in the north west and new Addington
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The historic Blue Tram in Barcelona has been shut down for about a year now, because the infrastructure is in dire need of being rebuilt, the tracks are from the rebuild in 1984.
Yesterday our extremely based local public transit advocacy group presented a study on how to improve this line.
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>Short historic tram line dating from 1901 with original cars from 1904
>runs between the end of Metro line L7 and the funicular which runs up to the peak of the Tibidabo mountain, where there's a little amusement park
>funicular was built at the time of the funicular, upgraded in the 50's, being upgraded again rn
>tram is part of a "traditional" three leg journey from the city center up to the mountain
>tram has extremely low capacity compared with metro line and funicular, capacity is irregular
>has problems with running in mixed traffic, at times weird track alignment, weirdly set up terminals
>impractical timetable, only runs weekends and holidays, inefficient operation
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Main proposals
track alignment:
>rearranging the track alignment: properly centered in the lower part (where avenue is larger)
>in the upper part the tracks are aligned to the side, road is about 3 lanes wide but doesn't even have proper markings; impractical and dangerous. Proposal: Centered tracks, two lanes shared with (very low) auto traffic
>currently only 3 trams are in use, those that have been upgraded for "le safety", there are 5 trams from 1904 (nrs 5-8 and 10), one from 1901 (nr 1), one open tram from 1906 (nr 129) which originally belonged to the city's system, rebuilt using the mechanical part of an otherwise scrapped tram from 1904 (nr 9, RIP)
>one more tram from 1904 (nr 10) planned to be upgraded for regular service, tram from 1901 is to be preserved as is and won't operate
>proposal: upgrading tram 129 for regular service
>proposal: restore tram 525, large tram that originally belonged to city network; in the 80s there was a plan to restore a tram of the same series for this very line as it can handle the slope, but that one was left to rot before it could be restores
>proposal: restore tram 870, smaller than 525, belonged to city network, currently restored only cosmetically, would need mechanical restoration
>proposal: buying a few modern trams second hand from other cities (meh)
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stops and terminals:
>intermediate stops were all eliminated in 2012 because of "le safety", since passengers had to alight right onto the street
>lower terminal is stub track on one side of the road, descending trams have to cross incoming traffic
>upper terminal impractically located in respect to funicular station
>proposal: restoring one intermediate stop which would mainly serve nearby science museum and other local uses (mainly a restaurant and the chink consulate)
>improving terminal alignments (pic related)

That's more or less it. Here's the link to the study, it's in catalan so if anyone wants to know about some part of it just ask away.
forgot link: https://transportpublic.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/20190205-tramvia-blau.pdf
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Comfy AF. A few things:
1. Oh shit, I didn't realize Barcelona actually had three independent tram networks not connected to each other.
2. You should restore one of the shelved trams to pic related
3. Since the line isn't even 1300 meters long, three stops total are enough.
4. Now that there has been some development on REEEtram, how realistic would it be to connect the line to the other tram network(s), let's say, between now and 2030? Is the modern rolling stock compatible with tramvia blau?
>1. Oh shit, I didn't realize Barcelona actually had three independent tram networks not connected to each other.
Yes, but the two modern ones are built to the same technical standard, this one is a bit different (but also standard gauge)
>2. You should restore one of the shelved trams to pic related
Would be rad af. The tram in that pic is a model from the early 1900s that's very similar to the blue trams from 1904
>3. Since the line isn't even 1300 meters long, three stops total are enough.
It used to have I think three or four intermediate stops, but that was from the time when the line was still integrated with the rest of public transports (until '97). As it is now, one stop in the middle is enough. That stop ought to be equipped with a little platform, and could also be used by the bus line that will run on the lower part of the avenue.
>4. Now that there has been some development on REEEtram, how realistic would it be to connect the line to the other tram network(s), let's say, between now and 2030? Is the modern rolling stock compatible with tramvia blau?
This line isn't even close to the modern tram. It would only make sense if a tram line were built along Av. Bonanova, an important "horizontal" street in the upper part of Barcelona; or a "vertical" line along Muntaner and Aribau streets. Both of those corridors have high bus demand, and used to have trams back in the day. But neither is likely to happen in the next 20-30 years.
The two systems have problems with compatibility. They share track gauge, but Tramvia Blau runs on 600 volts instead of 750, and uses trolleypoles. The electrification is actually a historically very valuable part of that line, it uses ancient wire hangers and actual trolley wheels.
Talking about modern/classic tram combinations, it would make more sense if tram line T4 were extended along Pg. Colom, along the coast. This section is planned in the indefinite future and would make sense. This new stretch of a few km would be ideal for additional heritage operations, since it's a picturesque tourist area.
Barcelona has actually quite a few preserved trams, but they're stored away waiting for a museum that's apparently never going to happen.
>tram 58 from the first electric series from 1899, cosmetically restored
>two-axle tram 870 from the early 20's (mentioned as candidate for running on the tramvia Blau line), cosmetically restored
>two four-axle trams from the 1940s, in need of restoration (at least one had been restored in the 80s and was left to rot, a real shame)
>tram 525, four-axle from the 1920s (also mentioned as candidate for running on the Blau line), in need of restoration
>one ex-Washington PCC car, cosmetically restored to how it looked when in operation (with twin headlights and covered bogies)

But alas, this is highly unlikely to ever happen. The best we can hope for is for those trams to be put in some sort of museum someday, and at most tram 525 to eventually be restored to running condition and run on the Blau line.

Barcelona is a city with very little love towards trams. Someone once put it like this:
>In Barcelona, the rich hate trams because they think they're for the poor, and the poor hate trams because they think they're for the rich.
based and red/blackpilled
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In Tampere, the tramway construction continues where possible. There's like 3-4 km of new track, the depot has just gotten roof (not sure if warm yet), there are power station ready too.

So, when the ground is frozen, what better time for installing catenaries. The tracks can come in summer. I wonder if the first test runs happen this year.
Oikein hyvä. Glad to see a whole new tram network about to kick off in Winland.
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Speaking about. The chairman of the city council of Turku just proposed continuing the preparations to start tramway construction. So yay, maybe. I'ts been in talks like for over three years with this filibustering tactics of talking about some imaginary "superbuses", that don't really exist on this planet. Even the very politically guided investigations have returned results that say to either develop the bus system with current rolling stock or build trams optimistically, so these are the options on the table now. Hard to imagine Tampere and Turku started their tram projects jointly!

So that issue will be in the cabinet tomorrow, where it will most likely be tabled and be continued in early march when they meet next time, after which it will go into the concil. There is also Finnish parliamentary election coming in april 14th, but that shouldn't really be a problem. Some worm tongues have suggested that the municipal government is deliberately delaying this to see the next government. I don't believe it though, after all, this isn't really even the final build decision, it's to continue from genral plan to project plan and the real push shovel to the ground decision would be next year, done by the current mucipal government.

Current party alignments are Coalition: 17, Greens: 14, Social Democrats: 12, Leftist Alliance: 12, the Finns: 5 and totally irrelevantly the Swedes: 3, Center Party: 3 and Christan Democrats: 1, charman is Green.

The decision will be made by the coalition and the democrats, because favour of either of them is enough because the Greens and the Leftists are already for, the Finns and Center Party are against.

Interesting times.
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very cool Anon, thanks. here's a pic of ol' HRC in appreciation.
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good eye Anon!
Fuck off
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I'm bored as fuck in Basel so I'm taking a stroll on the tram for teh lulz and posting pics.
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There's two tram operators, so there's the green trams and the yellow and red ones.
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I'm taking line 15 which runs up a hill. This is one comfy neighbourhood.
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Looking upwards towards a forest.
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Comfy tram stop is comfy.
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Timetable and area map. Tram is late by 2 minutes already, this is unacceptable.
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This is the end of the line, but line 15 simply continues as line 16, since there's no turning loop. Check out the tram jam.
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A view... from a tram. Badum-tss.
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The line makes two 180 degree turns to climb down the mountain, hard to tell from blurry pic, it's actually much darker than it seems. The line climbs up the hill, observe the poles for the overhead lines.
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Yellow and red tram.
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The line splits three ways here. Neat.
Also it's amazing what my shitty chink phone camera can do with low light.
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It's an older tram sir, but it checks out.

Well that's it, hope you enjoyed it.
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Thanks for posting
thanks for posting anon
WTF I hate Melbourne trams now

Even if the research is true - I'm throwing that shit in the bin
Yeah its a quite nice looking tram
cheers my /n/iggers
post wood trams / streetcars / etc

This is the only bidirectional unit in Helsinki heritage fleet.

It is essentially a replica, having only the frame and few bit and bobs from the original, the rest comes from 50s Valmet trams and various two axle trams.
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Did he mäke them an öffer they cöuldn't refuse?
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Yup, it's equipment number is "BS1".

The original was built for the closest thing Helsinki had for an interurban, to this villa district of Kulosaari / _Brändö_. Seats 28 peaple and has a compartment for luggage, originally it was naturally divided to smoging and non-smoking.
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I'm totally rambling at this point, but here's a nice pick of the cockpit. From left to right: your controller, the old school up right, manual kind; direction handle, in a tram like fashing this is fixed and not a "key"; electrics box, containing the tram's driwing light switches, the bell and point turning magnet controls; your standard Westinghouse brake; rotary parking brake and sand pedals. Behind your back at the roof there would be cabin light and heating resistor, controls, and the main power switch which also doubeles as the cab selector. You don't get fancy things like speedometer or automatic windshield wipers.

Now I said this tram is bidirectional, but as Helsinki is 100% unidirectional system, some concessions were made: the B-cab doesn't have that lights control box or sand controls. Still better than that other heritage unit where the rear cab is 100% dummy.
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On a second look, that single thing that has a small tube coming into is a speedomater and upright maybe that copper tube goes to a wiper. :D

Luxury! The driver still needs to stand though.
neat. what year is this baby from? Also when was that line closed down?

>ywn drive an old-timey tram with an upright controller
why live
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1917 and the line closed in 1951. The car itself was retired in 1954 and served as a summercottage until year 2007.
Fair. Here's a better link



>About 75 per cent of the tram network operates on shared roads with other vehicles, meaning trams are often vulnerable to traffic accidents on the road.

>Up to 17 per cent of journey time on Melbourne's trams is spent waiting at red lights, compared to just 2 to 5 per cent by international standards.

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Managed to snap a better pic of one of these grannies.
>Up to 17 per cent of journey time on Melbourne's trams is spent waiting at red lights, compared to just 2 to 5 per cent by international standards.
>totes aquelles gàbies ocupant el carrer del TRAMVIA
If they do anything other than central segregated tram/bus lane with intermediate stop just before Ronda de Dalt I will literally nuke the whole city.
Holy shit guys id's habbedings :--DDDDDDD

Mobiel is currently considering two options for the extension of Stadtbahn line 1 from Senne to Sennestadt. The first variant would split the line into two branches near the end, which would both be served with a 20 minute headway (pink on the map).
The second option would take the long way around, serving all stations of option one plus one additional stop (purple on the map). Overall travel time would be increased though for trips to and from the northwest of Sennestadt.

It's actually not happening. Planning is gonna take at least until 2021. Maybe the extension will be finished by 2030, who knows.

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