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File: ultraromance-atlantis-01.jpg (1.35 MB, 1208x800)
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Somebody explain to me the appeal of boutique bikes like this. I'm pretty sure I can build one that does 99.3% of what this one can do for about 10% of the price. What am I paying for?
>>
Some people don't have time to build a bike like this but have money to buy it
>>
It's basically just a 90s MTB with drop bars, but it's marketed very well. They have an extremely anti-Fred attitude and the bikes are similarly priced as Fred carbon rockets, so it's a good alternative for Freds who are intimidated by Fred culture and don't want to wear lycra but also want to spend big bucks for their bikes.

Recently Rivendell's in financial troubles though, they've moved production of some frames to Taiwan and request huge deposits and even ask credit from customers who aren't buying anything at the moment.
>>
>>1261952
Some people start of with a budget and buy the nicest thing that meets their needs and is within budget.
>>
Top tier NOS/new components, custom geometry and good taste
>>
>>1261952
>what this one can do for about 10% of the price
I'm pretty sure I can't. Please teach me.
>>
>>1261952
Yeah, you could almost certainly build something almost as functional for a fraction of the cost.

You'd spend a hell of a lot of time scrounging through bike coop parts bins and trolling ebay and craigslist, though, and some people value their time more than others.

Some people just enjoy owning nice stuff more than they enjoy scrimping for every last penny.

Some people enjoy supporting people who continue to make stuff like this.
>>
How much does this thing cost? Looks like a $600-700 bike to me.
>>
>>1261952
wow those chainstays are really short does that rider have a death wish?
>>
>handbuilt wheelset
Takes abuse far beyond factory wheels and worth it in the long run
>dynamo lighting
Probably the biggest innovation in the past 50 years and absolutely worth paying for. That bike doesn't appear to have it, but it's a big thing that seperates top tier meme bikes from cheap ones, and tied to the custom wheelset.
>expensive bags and racks
That stuff breaks if you ride offroad. I've broken many racks. Cheap bags break under any use. My carradice saddlebag is really well built and has lasted a very long time. It's a really nice thing to use.
>Expensive boutique crank
because gearing for meme riding genuinely doesn't have any good mainstream options.
>expensive leather saddle
unparalled comfort for long miles without proper cycling kit

The thin tubes are sexy. The lugs are sexy.

The quill stem is absurdly functionally inferior, in terms of both ride quality and durability. The non-aero brake levers are fucking stupid. There is no reason to have them. Downtube shifters do still often make sense but with a double it's really questionable. $50 bottle cages make me want to hit someone.

The really big thing is a nice steel frame rides better than allum/carbon for anything resembling touring and a cheap steel frame isn't that.

You can get close with a restored nice sport touring bike if you can find one but a threadless steerer is worth paying for and so is a complete new build on it. That's what makes that riv so fucking stupid. New bikes with quill stems make me angry and i love quill stems.
>>
>>1261999
the tires are just huge
looks about right to me
the long wheelbase shit they're on now makes horrible riding bikes
>>
>>1262003
Yeah my post was mostly poking fun at
>the long wheelbase shit they're on now
I'm glad someone mostly got the joke
>>
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>>1262004
im sorry anon, i am not a smart man
>>
The real question is really;
>is it worth paying $1000-$2000 for a high quality new steel frame

I'd say yes, if you can afford it.

They're far superior to nice older sport-touring bikes and they're far superior to 4130 touring frames and they're far superior to allum+carbon cross bikes,

for meme riding.

For solely commuting, heavy loaded touring, or unloaded gravel grinding those 3 above respectively are ideal. All of them can handle every disclipline. But a really nice modern steel bike is the allrounder and it's the best meme bike and I think it's worth it and I love mine.
>>
>>1262009
wtf is meme riding
>>
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>>1261952
I've built rivendell inspired bike for a fraction of a cost using surly lht frame. Total cost was something like ~£600.
Rivendell frame alone would have costed ~£1300 plus import taxes/shipping.
>>
>>1261966
i paid $900 for a floor-demo crosscheck with 2x 10 spd drivetrain. basically gave me a couple hundred dollars off because the stickers were a little scuffed. i put ~$400-500 into a rack, basket, nitto bars, saddle, fenders, etc. so for ~$1500, i have the same capabilities as a riv. obv surly is not as good, it's a 4130 frame, surly is dumb, whatever; but it works for way less money.
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>>1262023
4got pic
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>>1262024
wtf my carbon crit bike cost less than that
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>>1262025
you bought a cheap plastic-and-glue bike that's meant to get trashed while racing. did you upgrade the contact points? i spent half the cost of the whole bike on more shit to bolt on it.
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>>1262026
Not sure what you mean by “upgrade the contact points”. I put on a used saddle and some cheap aluminum bars
>>
>>1262028
contact points are pedals, saddle, bars. i hardly believe that someone who races wouldn't change those things to their preference.
>>
>>1262009
>They're far superior to nice older sport-touring bikes
How? I'd genuinely like to know. I think I paid like $200 for my 90's Trek 520 and it honestly feels better than my early 2010's S-works Tarmac
>>
>>1262057
He's talking shite. This whole crap about "better steel" has been debunked years ago.
Tyres>geometry>fit>weight>material in the order of importance.
>>
>>1262057
>my 90's Trek 520 honestly feels better than my early 2010's S-works Tarmac
Well of course. By some metrics and in some situations atleast. Steel is afterall real. But this is still steel i'm talking about.

The really definitive thing is having a threadless steerer.
The stiffness that brings the front end of the bike, makes a really tangible difference, especially climbing out of the saddle. Quill stems are sexy though.

I also think my late 80s custom 531ST frame feels slightly 'dead' compared to my 853 allrounder frame, and it somehow also isn't as stiff for road riding and it doesn't handle heavy loads as well either. The rear triangle and the whole bike flexs more under heavy loads but that doesn't translate to a better ride unloaded. The 853 frame feels lively and more compliant/comfortable but it's also somehow stiffer. It's much better on gravel. I can't think of a single superior aspect to my late 80s, by all means very nice, custom high end sport tourer, over high end modern steel meme frame, aside from having sexy lugs and detailing. I've swapped quite a few things between the two as well.

I know that's not really scientific but I think my modern steel bike compares really favorably to all the classic steel bikes i've owned/ridden and that's some really nice ones that i like a lot. Maybe not in all areas, but as an all round bike, the best.
>>
>>1262066
I see where you're coming from and I kind of agree, but i'll stick with my autism because I enjoy it, no matter how bullshit it may be, and i think before tires in importance is actually riding and I do.
>>
>>1262023
So... a rivbike costs $15,000?
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>>1262073
Wouldn't be surprising if they came up with one that did tbhwyf. The main selling point would be
>built locally by this bearded guy who loves craft beer as much as you do!!!
>>
>>1262002
I've never heard of any durability or quality issues with quill stems, and have never noticed any on the bikes I have with them vs the bikes I have with threadless. The big difference between threaded and threadless is that you can change your stem length easily with threadless.

Non-aero brakes are easier to recable and generally futz with than aero, since you don't have to deal with routing cable under wrap and whatever issues may come up with that.

Downtubes are great and again are much easier to deal with than anything else, but start to suck when you get beyond 8 in the rear.

Those bottle cages are about $20 from King USA.
>>1262009
Modern steel is still 4130, unless you're talking about stainless. The various tubesets will differ somewhat in formulation and treatment (e.g. air-hardening that makes the steel stronger at weld locations), but it's all 4130. The ride quality of a steel frame comes down to the tube selection, and a good framebuilder will specify different mixes of tubes depending on the customer's weight and riding style. Of course, if it's not custom, you don't know those things. Rivendell and Surly tend to overbuild their frames for that reason, so lighter riders or people who ride unloaded might find the ride a bit harsh because the frame isn't flexing at all for them. Then you have the old steel racing frames, which were underbuilt for weight reasons, reducing reliability and making them feel like noodles for heavier riders.
>>
>>1262073
no. my point was that i also could not do a build like that for 10%. an atlantis frame like in op's post and my whole bike with my choice of components cost the same, like this >>1262019
>>
What is meme riding?
>>
>>1262105
what I do with ur mom
>>
wtf is a meme bike
>>
>>1262002
Agreed, mostly, especially about the brake levers. TRP makes high end brake levers shaped like STI hoods and they are amazing, just put them on a ‘84 steel race bike. Funnily enough bought them from Riv in person.

The general consensus in this thread is that yes, you can build your own old school tourer off of an mtb frame because that’s exactly what Rivendell is, Grant’s design philosophy is carried over from Bridgestone and with his own sometimes-wacky ideology (I’d say taste but really it’s ideological) thrown in. Heck, after I test rode a clement a few weeks back, which rode, shifted and felt like a dream boat, I went out and got myself an old trek mtb frame for $100. Sure it’s not lugged, but steel tubing in its mainstream prime at the dawn of production mtb’s would be considered boutique today.

Also, Riv’s don’t have light tubing, nor do they claim to and you would be smacked for desiring any kind of weight savings with Rivendell in favor of ride quality.
>>
>>1262114
what ur mom rides
>>
Riv/Grant openly states that you can get similar performance from big brand bikes, foam saddles, and disc. In his books he says this explicitly and I think I've seen the website or blog saying "just go buy a surly if you don't want lugs" or something like that

Riv does a great service being a contrarian brand because a ton of modern bike memes are industrial-strength bullshit. But they also introduce a bunch of their own bullshit... lmao... I also have seen Grant on record ranting about how bad V-brakes are in the 90s, now their new MTB has v-brakes and he says "it takes one ride to get used to them v. cantis". He's great with words and if you want to sell shit these days you need to sell a story

Riv is right about steel, clothes, fat tires (now everyone loves but they didn't before). I think they're wrong about upright bars, and i think disc is probably great but I have only ridden BB7s and only for a minute. The key riv thing is the "unracer" vibe --- people are making cycling fucking miserable with their racer LARPs. Slow ass touring on an Atlantis sounds like more fun than 90% of what people are doing on Giant bikes
>>
>>1262134
Shit, this made me realize that I can make a lot more money if I re-style my bikes to appeal to rich contrarian faggots. Thanks, anon
>>
>>1262137
I thought the bike industry was already headed that direction with gravel, road plus, adventure, etc, whatever, bullshit.
>>
What possible advantage do 1 inch steerers have in the current year?
>>
>>1262138
You are not wrong. I think it's for the best that sensible tyre sizes with space for full length mudguards and a geometry that wasn't intented for out of saddle style riding is making a comeback. About fucking time.
Modern day "adventure" "gravel" bike with hydros, 1x11, comfy af tyres, comfy geometry and a good steel/aluminium frame is a pretty damn good all rounder without compromises (if you're not racing).
>>
>>1262142
None. Threaded headsets and quill stems are dinosaur technologies that may look good but are inferior in every single way to threadless headsets.
>>
>>1262143
Yeah, since I got into cycling and racing my parents wanted to upgrade from the 90s Trek mtbs they've been occasionally riding. I built up steel frames with pretty relaxed geometry, plenty of stack, and room for something like 35 mm tires. They can fit fenders too, but my parents are absolute casuals so they probably won't be riding in the rain ever so I didn't bother with them. They're pretty happy with their bikes.
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>>1262144
The only advantage is that height is adjustable without the use of spacers etc.
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>>1262148
And that cutting steerers is only worth doing if you are absolutely sure about it, lest you live with a bunch of spacers on top or, if selling the bike, the whole fork is now worthless to the buyer since you’ve cut it too low (for them).
>>
>>1261952
>What am I paying for?
It being new. 99.3% of people are better off with an 80s or 90s mtb.
>>1261966
>buy 80s or 90s rigid mtb
>inspect it for worn components
>replace worn components
>adjust everything
Congrats, you're done and out about 200 dollars.
>>
>>1262002
>Takes abuse far beyond factory wheels and worth it in the long run

/diy/ able, but there are tons of options for custom hand built wheels shipped to your door. Personally I have had good luck adjusting machine built wheels to stay true for thousands of miles.

>Probably the biggest innovation in the past 50 years and absolutely worth paying for. That bike doesn't appear to have it, but it's a big thing that seperates top tier meme bikes from cheap ones, and tied to the custom wheelset.

There are some great lights that run on 18650s. While you can't ride all nite unlike a dyamno hub, it is far cheaper option that has universal fit. IIRC mine gets about 90 minutes on 800 lumens, and 18650 batteries are cheap.

>because gearing for meme riding genuinely doesn't have any good mainstream options.

From the pic you could get a square taper triple crank in black with a 9 speed 11-34 for less than the crank in OP. Lets be real you ain't going to spin out on an MTB triple on a touring bike on flat land.

>unparalled comfort for long miles without proper cycling kit

You won't hear any complaints from me about brooks saddles.

I have no experience riding offroad with a rack and bags to give an opinion.
>>
>>1262019
the rivendell probably isn't a boat anchor though
>>
>>1262084
>Modern steel is still 4130
853 is 4130?

>I've never heard of any durability or quality issues with quill stems
The headsets go out of adjustment, develop play, and need servicing FAR more often. They are not nearly as durable. Even a relatively inexpensive threadless headset is a set and forget item and outlasts drivetrains. That is not even vaguely true for threaded ones.
>>
>>1262189
>While you can't ride all nite
We're talking about riding all month. It's more than lumens too. The optics on those fancy german lenses are incredible.

I guess you're right about the gearing, so it's really just paying for things to be shiny and silver. I do think having a bike you like for aesthetic and arbitrary reasons is really important though, because you'll ride it more.
>>
>>1262134
Grant's best talent is having dope taste in typography and logo design. The riv logos and headbadges are always aesthetic af.
>>1262137
You'll more likely go broke. The bicycle market is going to hell right now because of e-bikes. Riv is probably going to be dead in a few years, as will most of the smaller brands and framebuilders.
>>
>>1262215
4130 is a somewhat broad grade of steel. Reynolds is mum on the exact formulation of 853, but as far as I'm aware it's basically just air-hardened 4130. Reynolds 531 and 753 were manganese-molybdneum but couldn't be used for TIG welding.

As for the headsets, I haven't really seen much of a difference in reliability between threaded and threadless. I've had to replace the threadless headset on my shitty MTB once in the last 10 years, while my 30 year old Miyata 615 just had to have its headset replaced. The old one wasn't even that bad, just a little cruddy. Got any data with a larger sample size than what's gone in and out of my garage over the years?
>>
>>1262239
I'm not going to continue the discussion of threaded vs threadless because it's not at all contentious

You simply don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>>1262239
and forget the names attached, expensive steel tubing makes a real tangible difference. That's not to say that there aren't steel frames with expensive tubes that ride badly and ones with cheap tubes that ride adequately, but the really nice ones have expensive tubing, high end tubing, and they're significantly superior.
>>
>>1262247
Just admit that you have nothing to back you up on your claims of increased reliability or better ride quality. No data, no argument.
>>1262248
I never said that different tubing didn't make a difference in ride quality. Did you bother reading what I said in >>1262084
>>
>>1262251
It's universally accepted common knowledge
>>
>>1262254
Used to be the sun orbiting a flat earth was universally accepted common knowledge. You ain't got data, you ain't got shit to stand on.
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>>1262256
Have you ever serviced a threaded headset?
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>>1262256
the bicycle industry;
>we were wrong about quill stems and from now on every bike will have them again, we are truely sorry, also nitto is now our parent company
>retrodouches actually think this will happen
>>
>>1262134
>The key riv thing is the "unracer" vibe --- people are making cycling fucking miserable with their racer LARPs. Slow ass touring on an Atlantis sounds like more fun than 90% of what people are doing on Giant bikes


What I never understood about the Riv people is that you can always go chill and slow on a fast bike.
>>
>>1262262
hmmm yeah but not really. Sustained intensive effort supports your upper body on most road bikes and they're too aggressive otherwise. They're overgeared also and wide tires are nice for comfort and to compensate because you don't plane over things quite so well at lower speeds.
>>
>>1262260
Yes. Do you have data to back up your claims or not?
>>1262261
Nobody thinks that will happen. Did I say that was going to happen? Who are you quoting?
>>
>>1262256
What autism is gonna compile data about headsets lmao u fucken dumb

>>1262262
Soft pedaling on a bike made for racing kinda sucks, it is also boring, not to mention drivers are gonna see you durdling along at 12 mph and say “SEE I told you bikes are slow as shit”
>>
>>1262262
>being slow and chill while you're bent over your handlebars with your ass in the air like a bitch in heat
>>
>>1262269
>ass in the air
Your ass isn’t any higher if you know how to adjust saddle height properly. Why do people always say this though? It sounds stupid and makes you look ignorant.
>>
>>1262268
Engineers who look at component failure rate so that they can make stuff more reliable.
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>>1262272
Show me that engineer, find Shimano’s headset data engineer on linkedin
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>>1262271
you know you love those cummies in your bummie
>>
>>1262273
Shimano only makes one headset, a 1" threaded model. You can ask them yourself for data, I'm not doing your work for you.
>>
>>1262274
If you can catch me you can fuck me, but you sound pretty slow so I guess it’s gonna be another lonely night for me
>>
>>1262278
I'm the CAT 6 champ around these parts, guess you're gonna get a nice hot load of HIV in ya tomorrow, kid!
>>
>>1262281
Post strava then, I know a lot of guys who think they’re hot shit on the bike path that have trouble pushing 200 watts
>>
>>1262202
Be realistic. Weight difference would be what, 2kg max?
>>
>>1262134
GP writes like a salty grouch but that works for him because his main audience really does believe Big Bike is out to ruin their riding experience and that carbon fiber explodes if you look at it

>>1262239
Threadless headsets are superior in every single way, we get it, you love your old bike, that's cool, but threaded headsets are old and dumb and there's no reason to seek one out on a new bike.
>>
>>1261952
So what is the difference between that bike and a 90s rigid MTB with DT-shifters and dropbars?
>>
>>1262308
About $3,000 and a sense of importance
>>
>>1262271
your ass is higher in a race position, but not by much. my saddle height varies about half an inch between my townie and road bike.
>>
>>1262323
That’s not enough for these hot and heavy homos fixated on cyclist’s asses to be able to tell a difference.
>>
>>1261952
>What am I paying for?
Boutique-ness.
>>
>>1262215
>The headsets go out of adjustment, develop play, and need servicing FAR more often. They are not nearly as durable.

No, they don't. You're just a shit mechanic.

t. vintage Trek/Cannondale rider
>>
>>1262364
>larger bearing surface
>modern cartridge units
>more precise adjustment
>Upper stem movement, although small, pumps perspiration-enriched rainwater into the interface with a quill stem - jobst brandt

I rode for 6 years on bikes with quill stems and I was overhauling the headsets twice yearly, atleast, because they developed play or got rough.
I've had a Cane Creek 40 that cost me about $40 on my current threadless bike for 3 years now and it's as smooth as it was new.
Mileage varies in those years but that's touring/road riding & commuting.

The stiffness benefit and ride quality benefit is also really tangible and significant. You wouldn't find a pro mechanic in the world who disagrees.

Don't get me wrong, quill stems are fine. But don't kid yourself. On a new bike? Absolutely retarded.
>>
>>1262364
& to prove my retrodouche cred, i'll even admit that square taper has its benefits and is not redundant.
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>>1263568
>having to overhaul headsets twice yearly
either you cheaped out like a motherfucker on your headsets with garbage-tier miche shit or worse, or you're the worst mechanic on earth
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>>1261952
just look at how thin that fork is
not the sort of thing you can just buy anywhere
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>>1263568
You know they make cartridge threaded headsets and loose bearing threadless right? Also if they got loose you probably weren't tightening the locknut very well.
>>
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>>1263577
THEYRE FUCKING INFERIOR LITERALLY NO ONE DISAGREES ANYMORE YOU RETRODOUCHES TAKE THINGS TOO FAR
>>
>>1261959
>90s MTB
nope, those things are pig fat and overbuilt to handle bailing into tree trunks
>>1262002
>thin tubes
>thread less head set
pick one
>>1262364
you use thread locker on everything ?
>>
>>1263579
Having to cut steerers is annoying but you're right if you don't need to adjust stack, threadless is superior.

That still doesn't mean your bearing problems aren't because of loose vs cartridge or that you might be a shitty mechanic.
>>
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you don't get the concept of someone liking something you don't? fucking kids today, the world's going to kick your ass. kid.
>>
>>1263594
I like the smell of my own farts.
>>
>>1263594
But that's not what he's saying at all
>>
>>1263601
debased and brownpilled
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>>1262009
slap my face and call my stupid for spending a lot more than that on ti, anon
>>1262105
>>1262114
I think in this context it's referring to gravel and bikepacking sort of stuff
>>1262143
>1x11
ree get that mtb shit out



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