Africa edition.Old thread: >>1225282Current thread: >>1256543Future thread: ????????
>>1238797This position had 118 applicants, yikes. Still got an interview :). Wish me luck /n/!
>>1256543Planned in 2010, the $8.5 billion plan set to finish in 2025, was widely critizised as unfeasible. Construction has not yet begun.The plan was to locate government areas in the brain, army barracks in the horn, restaurants in the belly, sewage plants in the ass, etc.Another plan to rebuilt the country's second largest city in the shape of a giraffe has not materialized either.
>>1256548i don't know, it sounds awesome to live in some animal's body part
>>1256548What would they put in the legs? Housing? Would they do anything with the dick or pussy? Is that the red light district?
>>1256543I could see this plan working out. Obviously, the city would continue to grow past the rhinoceros shape if it is successful. >>1256548This plan, I can not see working out. A giraffe is a stupid shape for a city. It's too stretched out with too much space inbetween. Even if you have rail transport down the throat and legs of the giraffe, suburbs would more naturally form in bulbs around the stations, not in long, slender stretches.
Ah yes, the esteemed 'Animal Cracker' model of town planning.
>>1256562All the public transport of course.
>>1256558>>1256548>>1256590It's always a bad idea to strictly define functional districts of a city this way. See for example Brasilia.
>>1256602Not sure if you mean public transit for the legs or for the genitals...
>>1256547Good luck pal.
Here to complain.>in major us city (espoused as pedestrian friendly)>just have to head west on a street for a few miles>in residential and mixed-use area, some small apartments, some restaurants, coffee shops, single families, etc>suddenly an impassable highway of death and cement barriers, in the middle of the neighborhood>no way to cross>go several blocks south, still no way across>have to walk back 5 blocks north to get to a cross>more residential area on other sideWill there ever come a time when the US will correct its obsession with building interstates, highways, freeways, and 8 lane wide high speed roads in the middle of cities? What an absolute abortion.
>>1256601>Plus point of living at lower floor>- No need to walk too much to get into/out of building when elevator fail>- Easier evacuation during emergencyFair enough>- Less likely to experience strong wind due to high floorHow high is this building, come on>- If you accidentally drop something put of window then it's more likely to be broken and more likely to hurt someoneRidiculous>- priceOk>- No need to worry about heightI don't understand>Minus points>- View>- Lower survival chance when building collapseRidiculous, shouldn't be a factor>- More likely to have insect at homeAgree>- During tropical cyclone or tornado hit, kore likely to receive damage due to debrisCome on where the fuck do you live to worry about disasters and wind>- Water pressure might be a problem depends on structure of the building water supply system. Also, more vulnerable when sewage system failDo you live in the 3rd world?>- Air pollution, noise pollution and light pollution etc. due to street activityWhich is a BIG one>- More prone to floodingOkau>- It's less likely to be able to complete suicide by just hopping out of window.>- ventilation and sun lightWhat about it>- Might be difficult to get into elevator during rush hourRush hour for an elevator? Come on1/10 shitty list
Going to apply to study Urban Planning at Concordia University starting next Septemberwish me luck everyone
Were cities better before horses were replaced?
>>1256754Good luck! In Canada I assume?
>>1256756No. There was huge piles of shit all over the place.
>>1256756Cities peaked right after horses were replaced by trams and cars were just starting out
>>1256749>Will there ever come a time when the US will correct its obsession with building interstates, highways, freeways, and 8 lane wide high speed roads in the middle of cities?Muhhh bluhhh there's not infrastructure exactly where and how I want it
>>1256756No, horses are filthy>>1256767Based and redpilled
>>1256756> Were cities better before horses were introduced? Better, non-shitty question. Perhaps horses should only be transporting cargo inside the city. If somehow bicycles can be invented before industrialization with stream engines, it would make for an amusing scene.
>>- Less likely to experience strong wind due to high floor>How high is this building, come onThirty or forty floors high, you can already feel your building shaking due to high wind when extreme weather occurs. Not to mention those that are actually high floors.>>- If you accidentally drop something put of window then it's more likely to be broken and more likely to hurt someone>Ridiculouswhat>>- No need to worry about height>I don't understandSome people would get scared when they stand next to window on high floor>>- During tropical cyclone or tornado hit, kore likely to receive damage due to debris>Come on where the fuck do you live to worry about disasters and windCoastal Asian city>>- Water pressure might be a problem depends on structure of the building water supply system. Also, more vulnerable when sewage system fail>Do you live in the 3rd world?Not really, but failures would still occur once in a blue moon or so even when the system is properly maintained.>>- ventilation and sun light>What about itShadow of other nearby building would affect you more if you're at lower floor>>- Might be difficult to get into elevator during rush hour>Rush hour for an elevator? Come on>1/10 shitty listWell, it's true that for people living in lower floors, it would be easier to simply walk downstairs during rush hour instead of waiting for an elevator that's mot full to come..
>>1256890meant to reply>>1256752
>>1256605What this anon said. You guys ever go to Brasilia ? If you live ANYWHERE within the original city, you can't go out to eat or have fun without having a car. In fact, the whole city was built on the then president's wish to expand the auto industry, and with it came a lot, a LOT of stupid highways. They have a metro system but it's kind of like an afterthought.By the way, why is it that cagers being a thing is always the government's fault ? They're always building roads nobody asked for, and in this case, some dude built a whole bizarro EPCOT with no public transportation in mind just to satisfy his ego.
>>1256908Governmental automobile support is actually due to popular pressure; petroleum was really cheap in the early 20th century, environmental consciousness didn't exist, population size was much lower, and there were a large number of dirt-poor family farmers with little mobility outside of a couple miles/km from home unless they lived near a rail line… and, even then, they had to travel on somebody else's schedule, with onerous shipping/riding fees.t. suburban middle-burgerstani
How do you decide a bus route?For instance, you have three residential district on one side, and then a commercial area on another side. Each of them have some demands. Should you make a single bus line to capture all the service which would be more frequent however that would be slower for the further away towns due to the detour needed, or should you provide a direct service from each of those three towns to the commercial district, despite that would mean less frequent services? What are some deciding factors?
>>1257083> for instance That's not enough as an example
>>1257083My local system has some guidelines that I think answer some of your question. In short, I don't think there is an easy answer and many things must be balanced and optimized.
Chicago man owns and parks 38 cars on the public street outside his home. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/uptown-car-rental-parking-problem-500442242.htmlShould public streets have free parking?
>>1257179Absolutely not. Every square foot used for parking could be used for something else more productive, and so they should have to pay for their occupancy of the space. If I have to $25/sqft to rent housing for a year, that same rate should be applied to a parking space (if not more due to supply shortage).
>>1257088>>1257094How about this way.If each town get a direct route to the commercial district, then from the forecasted passenger demand the bus line can only run hourly. However each towns can get their most direct bus service to get into the commercial area, which would be about 20-30 minutes for each of them.Another alternative would be get a single bus route to link up all of them. Advantage would be it can offer a frequency of up to 4-6 buses per hour which would cut the waiting time by quite a bit, however the further away residential district would need more than an hour to be reached by this bus route because of detour taken to serve the other districts.Which of the two scenario would be better and which of the two scenario can attract more passengers?
>>1257179No, but if they're for public to rent then a different regulation shall apply that should be more lenient to them.
>>1256767Redpilled opinionWhat could have been will always be a great tragedy
>>1257354If gasoline ever runs out, cages will die and be replaced with LRT.We just need to wait for that glorious day.
>>1256749Cities like Dallas and Atlanta are building walkable parks ON TOP of those freeways to connect the two sides. The damage has already been done but we can at least bury it underground
>>1257356Why not kill cages now?
>>1257356>he doesn't know about electric cages
>>1257370nothing like taking a walk in the park while getting your healthy dose of highway-level car exhaust!
>>1257405my god no wonder why no one like cyclist>>1257356you do realize that trucks, planes, trains, and boats also use gas right?
>Not enough housing>Property developer decided to subdivide luxurious houses into smaller units to rent them out>Government: No! It would be a violation against the rule, especially they would now have not enough parking spot for each unit! Restore them immediately or we would confiscate them!Fuck you Hong Kong government
>>1257411Gasoline is 40 times as energy dense as current batteries. It's never going to be a viable solution.>>1257512This is correct. Trains will have to be electrified, planes will become a rare luxury, trucks will be replaced with trains, and boats will become vastly less common.It'll be a gradual process, but unless there's some dramatic change in energy storage technology, it's inevitable over the long term.
>>1256767Inshallah cars will be replaced and the streets will once again be covered by plants and socialisation.
>>1257574Inshallah our countries will never run out of oil and the kuffar will always be dependent on us making us wealthier than any semite can imagine.
thoughts on toronto, guys?
>>1257565>Trains will have to be electrifiedThis could be vary feasible in a high population density area like Europe or US northeast also see here >>1254395 , the only problem i could see is with route that go thought the literal ass end of nowhere with installation and maintenance.>Planes will become a rare luxuryThis I would not mind, considering how much pollution aircraft make. Also a sky clear of contrail would be nice.>Trucks will be replaced with trainsThis is a major problem since the majority store and factory are no where near a rail line.>Boats will become vastly less commonUnless all world trade stop all of a sudden this is not going to happen.
Best US cities to live in without a car? How is Seattle in particular? Really want a city with water features and humidity, arid climates are depressing. Only been there once but it seemed pretty dense, generally walkable, and the rail system was convenient.
>>1257630subway is far too crowded with people who don't speak english. riding the lrt in calgary is much more comfy
>>1257717Very cool. Looks like the definition of tram-train. Do they split these up and run 1/2 units off-peak?
>>1257748They are always 3-4 cars. All the stations got upgraded to fit 4 cars over the past few years, but we may need to use 3 car trains anyways as the 1988 olympics trains get retired and no funding to replace them.
>>1257565> boats will become vastly less common.Do you know what you are talking about?
>>1257565It's more likely for shipborne nuclear reactor to mature than they disappear
Appearently, Hamburg considers a hyperloop to transport cargo from the harbour.Meanwhile, Munich wants to roll with Maglev regional trains based off the Transrapid (but slower)
>>1257813> hyperloop to transport cargo from the harbour Obviously they have only heard about Hyperloop, not Inductrack. Hyperloop cargo makes little sense outside mixed operation, and Hamburgh port distance doesn't warrant Hyperloop. "Up to 4,100 containers per day could reach Hamburg’s hinterland within seconds and would only have to be loaded onto trucks there. A large part of the truck journeys to the port of Hamburg would become superfluous." Topkek. ISO container Hyperloop was never serious. An aviation-Hyperloop intermodal cargo model transporting ULDs would actually work, with the great distances to airports and potential for intermodal passenger transfer in mind. Mail isn't that big of a market now. It's integrated into air cargo on top of the packages and parcels of postal services. > Maglev regional trains based off the Transrapid (but slower)Why are they trying again, and something worse still? Interconnection with the conventional rail network is needed, while an airport link is less important.
>>1257836> aviation-Hyperloop intermodal cargo * aside from all-out competition as substitutes in freight Weight concern is ever more sensitive to the maglevs of Hyperloop and Inductrack in general, than airplanes. Being permanent magnet EDS, overweight could mean more than overrunning or failure to levitate. Pad-wheel wear and damage hasn't been explored much outside passenger application in rubber-tyred metro or people movers, and the SCMaglev Chuo Shinkansen. Need to look at Inductrack freight researches and see how applicable it is to the Hyperloop low-pressure tube.
>>1257836Appearently, if you limit the speed to ~150km it's cheaper than overhead wires.
Board touristt here.Isn't a squared grid the best design, if you can design it like that from the start?Everything is parallel and perpendicular, so things are intuitively easy to find and traffic flows smoothly.What's the advantage of a weird animal shape?
>>1257886Streets feel homelier and communities grow tighter when they don't stretch until the horizon.
>>1257890So it's basically a grid with wiggles/curves instead of straight lines?Does this apply to suburbs only, or to cities too?
>>1256543new challenge:fix Belgrade
>>1257886>>1257890Welcome to that 21st Century, doing something mean to it.We do it better than anybody you ever seen do it.
>>1257939What would be the reason for this?
>>1257356>he doesnt know about ethanol lamo
>>1257950Corn ethanol doesn't work at scale (and drives food prices way up) and you can't grow enough sugarcane in the US to make up the difference. Read a fucking book son.
>work out in cagerland as a transitfag>only a sidewalk on one side of street>side that has busstop for home trip has no sidewalk>cagers going 45 in a 25 and will not slow down if jesus himself were crossing because post-work cagers become feral ragebeasts>extremely narrow shoulder>no crosswalk, not even at intersection>curving road, only one place with good visibility to cross safely>have to run across street and seek shelter in middle turn lane like some frogger tier shit>get to other side, no sidewalk, everything is winter-fucked with icy spots, overgrown weeds, can't even walk in grass because there's a fucking ditch, a plastic-and-post construction fence, and a literal hole that's 3 feet deep>inching past overgrown weedbush while cage rushes by>clear bush, cram back as far from lane as I can>slip in black sludge, literally black fucking sludge>go down to a 3-point touch>stains my shoes with hell-muck, asphault rips hand open and sludge gets in wound>if a cage had been coming it would have hit my shoulders/head perfectly>try to wash wound out with bottled water while slavsquatting at bus stopOn the plus side the 2nd bus I need to take was only 15 minutes late instead of the usual 45.
>>1257886>Board touristt here.>Isn't a squared grid the best design, if you can design it like that from the start?>Everything is parallel and perpendicular, so things are intuitively easy to find and traffic flows smoothly.Not wrong, although different opinion might exists on different scale, like radial arrangements>What's the advantage of a weird animal shape?Literally none, other than a sentence you cam write onto tourism brochure
>>1257886Depends, they only work in flat placesAdapted to terrain is best, a "grid" but not fully rectangular
>>1257939You need main artery roads cutting some of the hex blocks in half. Otherwise there is no transit corridor to efficiently cross the city.
>>1258271>they only work in flat placesWhy so?
>>1258273> transit corridorPersonal NB: The most ideal alignment for any underground railway (or anything underground really) is to cut through the surface street network. Go where buses nor cars, sometimes even pedestrian, can't. No need to follow the grid.
>>1258304>* grade-separated railway>>1258273In fact this applies to surface transit as well. A mainline railway, busway or tramway can do, with sidewalk and cycling paths, etc.
>>1258304How about costAnd are you talking about underground railway for such low density community
>>1258343> >>1258306Make a two-lane busway, then you have transit.
A few days ago Guangzhou performed a construction inauguration ceremony for six metro lines at the same time, including Line 3 eastern extension, Line 5 eastern extension, Line 7 phase 2, Line 10, Line 12 and Line 14, the inauguration of six metro lines construction at the sane time have broken record of the Guangzhou city itself.According to plan, in year 2023, the total network length for metro in the city of Guangzhou will exceed 800km.
>>1258273Also known as barcelona
>>1258288Depending on how steep a hill is, you may not be able to put a road going straight up but do curved roads instead
>>1258304>Go where buses nor cars, sometimes even pedestrian, can'tUuh, how are people gonna get to the station then? I think aligning grade-separated transport with main artery roads has many advantages. Relieving traffic on said road, same points of interest available, no stations in the middle of suburban nowhere. That said, it really depends on the cityscape in question, on the terrain, method of construction and so on. If you're drilling a tunnel or building a higher up elevated rail instead of say, cut and cover, you can of course build wherever you want. >>1259849No. Barcelona has square shaped blocks and superblocks. No hexagons as far as I'm aware.
>>1257939>Hexagon>Not just slapping a bunch of roundabouts together
>>1260001Would be absolutely hellish to navigate
What's the different
>>1260213The arrows painted on the roundabout tell you what direction to travel. That's all I can see.
>>1257411this once most cars become electric, even the liberals who are anti-car/pro-transit for enviornmental reasons will become complacent and will gladly start taking their cars every so long as they are electric
>>1257890it's not exactly the most efficient method of development though
>>1260213Hi Hong Kong poster again. HK is very backwards in roundabouts despite its prevalence. >>1260246Conventional concentric ("conventional roundabout") vs concentric spiral ("spiral roundabout") vs full spiral markings, then there's the divided turbo-roundabout.
>>1260247>By relocating the combustion process from internal combustion engine to power plants, they'll suddenly become environmentally friendly!
>>1260248Do you develop for people to live, or do people live so that you can have efficient development?
>>1260255>power plant>combustionWhat's it like living in the third world?
>>1260255Actually it does, since you can trap all emissions at a single choking point, rather than using materials on individual cars.
>>1257667Most world trade is pernicious. The only legit thing to move around is mineral resources, because there's only a few places on Earth that have them. The rest is shit you buy on AliExpress or Amazon, machinery that should have been built in your country, or fruits that don't grow in your area in the current season but that you don't need.
>>1260303People live for prosperity of their society. Each individuals are just a component for the machine known as "society".
>>1260305Unless your country achieved 100% year-round fossil-fuel-free electricity generation, otherwise any additional load convert from other energy source will always mean the addition of most polluting, most easily added, and most easily switched according to demand type of generator as power source, which mean fossil fuel generator and in most places that would even be coal.
>>1260311>Unless your country achieved 100% year-round fossil-fuel-free electricity generationHydro + nuclear.
>>1260313hydro destroys ecosystems tho
>>1260311> fossil-fuelCombustion of biofuel and renewable-storing synthetic fuel (including hydrogen) doesn't count as fossil fuel alright. I long for a day when fossil fuel isn't synonymous with hydrocarbon fuel.
>>1260350Yeah but biofuel production eat into human food production system
https://www.transit.dot.gov/about/news/fta-capital-investment-grants-cig-program-investmentsWhat are your favourite projects?Are any of these projects undeserving of Federal Funds?
>>1260255You would be surprised by the amount of 'environmentalists' who don't really think that far into the consequencesand for many people, being an 'environmentalist' and driving an electric car is a status symbol. there was a study that people will put solar panels on the most visible side of even if the other side would be more effective because they mainly care about people seeing that they have solar panels.
>>1260255There are efficiencies to power production and pollution control. >why don’t we all just use generators to power our houses then we don’t need to build any new power plants
>>1260592Wait really? Source
>>1260332So do beaver dams.
>>1259858>No. Barcelona has square shaped blocks and superblocks. No hexagons as far as I'm aware.No, i'm talking about the arterial roads cutting the city. The idea is just like barcelona
>>1261000Okay, I was talking about the hexagon idea exclusively though. The problem with that idea is that you don't have any straight roads through the whole thing. So I'd propose cutting some of the blocks in half to achieve that. Barcelona has a square/rectangular grid which does allow for straight roads, so the basic problem doesn't exist. You can still have fast transport corridors in a straight line. The diagonal alley or whatever it is called is there for different reasons.
>>1261090Hexagons sound like an absolute hell of constant intersections desu desu.I'd rather just have gridiron and narrow roads to discourage people from driving fast.
>>1260429The SMART extension to the Larkspur ferry needed to happen. I wish this was operational when I lived in the area -- hope they electrify/connect with BART ASAP.
>>1261947>hope they electrify/connect with BART ASAPThat's decades out, if ever. Could be done with either system over a new Richmond-San Rafael Bridge or by an underwater BART tunnel. Former is probably more likely.
Does anyone here work for a municipality?
>>1262223I work for an MPO. We’re getting ready to review all of our municipality’s comprehensive plans.
>>1262223Yo I work for a large inner suburb of a major US metropolitan region
>>125654710 people made it to the interview stage. I've moved onto the second interview. Not sure how many made it to the second interview and no idea what to expect. I'm meeting with the department director and the hiring manager. Incredibly excited and just a touch of nervous.
Minnneapolis NIMBYs on suicide watch. >Minneapolis will become the first major U.S. city to end single-family home zoning, a policy that has done as much as any to entrench segregation, high housing costs, and sprawl as the American urban paradigm over the past century.>On Friday, the City Council passed Minneapolis 2040, a comprehensive plan to permit three-family homes in the city’s residential neighborhoods, abolish parking minimums for all new construction, and allow high-density buildings along transit corridors.https://slate.com/business/2018/12/minneapolis-single-family-zoning-housing-racism.htmlThoughts?
>>1262698Likewise, Portland is putting forward a proposal to do the same thing, upzoning 96% of neighborhoods to allow 4plexes citywide, especially along transit corridors.https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/414045-315429-report-rezoning-portland-will-increase-housing-lower-rents
>>1262698>>1262719Be still my throbbing dick.
>>1261829It minimize the amount of road per areaAlso probably a great way to demotivate human drivers from driving
>>1260429>BRT>BRT>BRT>BRT>BRTAnd they need national funding???
>>1262762BRT busses can easily run 900k each and that’s not even for artics.
>>1262874And what? Transportation network with such demand should be able to afford it
>>1262698>abolish parking minimumsoh shit
>>1260429>transit dot dot dot govwho the fuck decided that the domain name was a good idea instead of transportation.gov or something like that
>>1262874jfc considering the cost of operation and maintenance what's even the point of BRT over LRT
>>1263324Department of Transportation.
>>1263333You're asking the right questions. There is not a single good reason for BRT, ever.
>>1263383If you're a poorfag country that can't get any loans because your governments keep defaulting, and you can't get the Chinese to build your infrastructure for you.
>>1263387Tram/LRT is much cheaper in the long run
>>1263430Yeah, but if you're building in Jakarta or some shithole like that, you aren't getting a 30 year loan to pay for a LRT system.
http://www.startribune.com/roads-less-traveled-attempts-by-minneapolis-to-boost-biking-aren-t-paying-off/502216431/This guy did a study to try and see if bicycle really have the mode share they claim and if they are using the same amount of road space as their share of traffic. He finds:>This means that 33 percent of the available roadway has been allocated to bicycles, which make up 2.5 percent of traffic on those roads.>Wider bicycle lanes do not appear to improve the balance between bicycle usage and amount of roadway dedicated to bicycles. In fact, the widest bicycle lanes... ...in those situations constituted 2 percent of traffic while commandeering almost 40 percent of the roadway.What do you say to refute the article or anyone who brings up similar arguments?
>>1263452>This guy did a studyOverstatement of the century. >What do you say to refute the article or anyone who brings up similar arguments?Do you seriously need help pointing out how shitty this article is? It's one of the worst pieces of journalism I've ever read, and that's saying something. Anyway, here's a little head start: His research methods are very flawed. >author calls his research "limited pilot research"; it "should be used to best fit the research objective"; "estimated width of the motorized vehicle and bicycle lanes was obtained by hurriedly measuring those lanes with a tape measure in moments where there was a brief lull in traffic. (The inches measured are good estimates but could be off by a couple of inches either way.)" >also, times and places of his test samples were decided by him, who has a clear bias against bikes (rain is not the only factor here). >author does not say which roads he measured >all in all, this renders his research completely unscientific and anecdotal at best >a different person counting vehicles in the same manner in different times and places would most likely arrive at completely different numbers His argumentation and reasoning are very flawed. >false premise that as soon as a bike path is built, bikers will materialize out of thin air and use it >false premise that decades upon decades of pro-car city planning have had no impact on the share of cars vs. other modes of transport >false premise that there should be a correlation between portion of road width used by and numbers of vehicles/travelers per a certain mode of transport >(you can't just allocate 2.5% of road width to bikes if that's how many people use bikes, that would be insane) >false premise that you should arrive at the same percentages through census data and his method of counting vehicles. What exactly were the questions asked in the census? Cont
>>1263452>>1263625Cont.: Probably the absolute worst offence in terms of argumentation and research is: >ONLY LOOKS AT ROADS WITH BIKE LANES and then from that infers that A THIRD OF ALL ROAD SPACE IS CEDED TO BIKES when really that is only the case on the FEW DOZEN or so roads that even HAVE bike lanes >THEN wonders why the overall share of bikes is so low in the city He uses obfuscating style and rhetoric that borders on plain old lying. >the 33% and 2.5% figures turn into "almost 40%" and "2%" along the way >talks about public transport in an article on bikes, under a headline specifically referring to bikes >uses arguments for not using public transport as arguments for using the car, when the relevant problems only really apply to public transport specifically and could be alleviated by using a bike >DISTRACTED DRIVERS red herring >pretends that city does not do anything against distracted drivers >then lists actual safety measures taken by the city for cyclists, against distracted drivers >then says they are costly and don't do anything >talks about cost of maintenance for bike lanes while pretending that maintaining car lanes does not cost money >lowkey threatens to hit and run over cyclists >lowkey calls for drivers to hit and run over cyclists >somehow, drivers being unable to decipher a sign with a bike on it is the city's and the cyclists' fault >so I guess the city should run a huge info campaign telling drivers shit they should have learned before they even got their driving license? >BUILDING BIKE LANES IS EEVUL SOCIAL ENGINEERING >BIKE USAGE IS LOW, SO I GUESS WE SHOULDN'T BUILD ANY BIKE PATHS AND JUST KEEP GOING AS IS >REEEE BIKERS TICK ME OFF Oh, so the guy isn't even a journalist, nor an urban planning expert of any sort?He is a semi-retired marketing executive? Tell this fat boomer fuck to shove his uninformed opinion up his ass.
>>1263637>Oh, so the guy isn't even a journalist, nor an urban planning expert of any sort?>He is a semi-retired marketing executive? Tell this fat boomer fuck to shove his uninformed opinion up his ass.He actually worked on the region's Travel Behavior study in 1980. Things have changed quite a bit since then. It's amazing to think metropolitan areas used to learn about their region's travel by having police pull over every tenth car on a road to ask them where they are coming from and where they are going.
>>1260303this is such a terrible mindsetpeople pay into the developer system. it's the devs job to do things efficiently so the people get a good deal. having curved streets instead of straight streets is not how you develop 'for people to ''''live''''''
>>1263637>only looks at roads with bike lanes and then from that infers that a third of all road space is ceded to bikes when really that is only the case on the few dozen or so roads that even have bike lanes decapped for sanityand now i will fix it so retards like you can't pretend you aren't intentionally misreading>only looks at roads with bike lanes and then from that infers that a third of all road space (of aforementioned roads) is ceded to bikes when really that is only the case on the few dozen or so roads (the very same roads) that even have bike lanesand with that, you can see that the researcher is completely sensible and correct and you are hysterical and defensive
>>1264938>decapped for sanityThanks daddy Let me spell out exactly what I meant with that sentence. From the article: >The objective here has been to determine whether the proportion of bicycles relative to other roadway vehicles justifies the proportion of roadway space allocated to bicycles. No talk about only roads with bike lanes specifically. Berdie is talking about total share in mode of transportation and total share in roadway space. Further down: >I took 10-minute counts of bicycles and motorized vehicles traveling along roads with bicycle lanes so I could see 1) what the actual counts are of vehicles using these road and bicycle lanes; 2) what proportion of total traffic is traveling by each mode of transportation; and 3) what proportion of available traffic lane space is used by each transportation mode.From this point onwards, Berdie makes it clear that he only did his """research""" on roads with bike lines/paths. But there is an obvious bias in methodology here. By taking into account only roads with bike lanes, he disregards all the roads that don't have them. If he did, he'd probably arrive at a 2% share of bikes at a 0% share of road space dedicated to them. So mathematically speaking, the demand for bike lanes would be infinitely higher than the supply. That's kind of hard to integrate into your statistics. But it also points out the bias of only looking at bike lanes. You would have to consider the total amount of road space dedicated to them, and their total share in traffic. Cont
>>1264938>>1265006>But it also points out the bias of only looking at bike lanes*roads with bike lanes, that is. If only a dozen or so roads in the whole city actually have dedicated bike lanes, it is no surprise that their share is so low. Who would wanna ride in the street with a bunch of frustrated cagers who, according to Bernie, have no idea how to treat cyclists in traffic? Bikes don't just disappear into thin air when the bike path ends. They have to come from somewhere and they have to go somewhere. What Bernie did with his methodology is basically only look at bicycle hotspots in an otherwise bike-hostile environment. He also completely disregarded exclusive bike paths that are separate from the road, as they exist in many places. And quiet narrow roads where cars can't move any faster than the average cyclist. I hope I made the above point somewhat more clear. Seeing how you responded only to one of the many points of criticism that I offered with regards to the article, I'd be happy to hear what you have to say about the rest. Bernie is an automobile ideologue who is stuck in the 1960s. His article is a useless opinion piece that will only convince people who are on his side anyway.
>>1257565>boats will become vastly less commonlmao
>>1265006>No talk about only roads with bike lanes specifically>he really has to explicitly note this in every description of a road or else it means the oppositegrow up kiddo
>>1262698>>1262719We're literally entering a sphere of Soviet multi family homes because of housing shortages, except this time it's not even the state doing it it's McDeveloper(tm) who isn't even interested in hiring your people.What a truly dystopian world we are living in. The amazon wage slave, non house owning, renting everything including your wife lifestyle is more terrifying than anything I can imagine. Keep smoking legal weed and using Xanax, maybe you'll tolerate it.
>>1265214>stopped reading there Beware of reading the two posts start to finish, or else you might end up learning something. You might even end up having to engage with the arguments, which is something you should avoid at all cost.
>>1265244>it's literally impossible to have a owner-occupier apartments
>>1265244Enjoy spending your 60-minute 10-mile commute staring at car bumpers just so you can say you own a shitty rambler while I stop for a cappuccino on my 10-minute walk to work from my luxury condo that I OWN.
>When you have so many metro lines that you need to use Pantone color codes to define color for each of those lines
What a painfully boring read
The Chinese province of Guangdong have indicated their intention to shift the operation and management right of several new intercity rail lines to the Guangzhou Metro company, unlike some earlier intercity lines that are operated and managed by the national railway company.Such move is expected to improve usability greatly, by hoping that metro company would bring metro-styled fare collection system and boarding system to these lines, unlike current intercity lines that generally require buying tickets ahead of time with assigned train number and seat.Some have also expected their wish that metro-styled fare level and subsidy can be applied to these lines, as in currently they charge ~10 USD for a 100km ride but there's hope that it can be lowered to ~3USD according to metro fare collection system.
>>1262698>>1262719This desperately needs to happen in Texas. It never will though, Dallas-Fort Worth will become the next LA and everyone will be scratching their heads wondering where our affordability went
>>1266048What are some good urban planning reads?
>A bus at Fujian, China have been hijackedBuses are surely dangerous in China
>>1265244>Soviet multi family homesIf you want to go there then widespread car ownership is a Nazi plot.
>>1267703News reported it's force eviction.
What happened to the /shit cagers say/ thread? I had some great put downs on the cager menace.
1920s proposal for Sydney I found on Reddit.
>>1267778At this point it might as well be.
>>1267886would there be a sick-ass roundabout in the middle of that tower there?
>>1268193Looks like the ends are on different heights.
>>1267703Bus robberies used to be a big problem in my city (in brazil, surprise) until very recently. They managed to fix it by not accepting cash anymore, only the bus card.Without the guaranteed return from the bus fees, it became uncertain if it would be worth it for the robbers
>A double decker bus at Wuhan, China drive onto a road with insufficient clearance, many injured and killedBuses are surely dangerous in China
>>1268312Is the bus card a smart card? Where are you allowed to put money on it? One of the biggest arguments against going cashless for my system is that low-income riders use cash much more than other riders. We have a system of 100+ outlets to buy bus cards and you can add money online or at any LRT or BRT stations but those aren't built out enough yet.
>>1269041In my town bus cards can be recharged in kiosks and some shops and card travels are cheaper than cash travels.Add discounts/special cards for unemployed, young and old people, and everybody uses bus cards now.
>>1269051For us they are in almost every check cashing store and most big grocery stores or co-ops. The only way to have multi-day passes or most other discounts is through a smart card. About 60% of rides use the smart card but that varies between 90% adoption for express bus service to only 35% adoption for LRT. Whenever the idea of charging more for cash or stopping collecting cash is brought up it is shot down for equity and Title VI reasons which say fare changes can't have a disproportionate impact on the poor. That might be why I don't think there are any systems in the US that are cashless.
>>1269083Dont get why poor people are less likely to have a smartcard. Smartcards are cheap and are made in seconds.
>>1269101Smartcards are even free for our system. Poor people are much more likely to be underbanked and when you're at the grocery store with $10 to spend they are more likely to buy food than think ahead to put money on the smart card, even if they receive a discount with a smartcard.
FACT: Cycling cannot solve transit problem>>1269101Poor people = less educated = more conservative = less willing to accept new thing, especially when they have to deposit their own money into it
>>1269101poor people don't have bank accountsdon't ask me why I don't know
>>1269643Most smart cards doesn't need bank account
>>1269643Being poor != being stupidCheck how fast online payment spread in kenya when it turned out more convenient than banks
>>1269647meant for >>1269632
>>1269647>Check how fast online payment spread in kenya Not everyone wants to live like a poor nigger and become a slave of the bankers because it is so "convenient"
>>1269650>Not everyone wants to become a slave of the bankers because it is so "convenient"Pretty sure that's exactly what everyone does though
>>1269647That's because all these mobile banking and to a larger extent all those ventures are willing to lire people in with money?
>>1269690No, it is because their banks are shit, money transfers over there are expensive, and nobody worries much about money laundering (because there isnt much money to launder).I'm guessing many of the problems in America can be due to banks lobbying to keep their position as money launderers.
>>1269711That cannot explain the low acceptance of such tool in other developed countries and low acceptance by general public
Did you know Kevin Bacon's dad was a very influential urban planner in Philadelphia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Bacon_(architect)I wonder if any planners every calculate their Bacon number.
>>1257323>If each town get a direct route to the commercial district, then from the forecasted passenger demand the bus line can only run hourly.That's fuck all demand for the scenario givenIf this is what America's like, I'm assuming you're a yank, then christ your shithole is more pozzed than I thought it was.
>>1257755>retiring trains from 1988 you have no replacement forWhy?
>>1257956this better not be real kek
>>1262874>BRT busses can easily run 900k eachWhat the fuckA double decker in the UK costs ~£180kYou're being fucking robbed blind, that's Tram money.
>>1269865Nah not AmericaThe low demand on the bus service is mainly due to competition from metro system and coaches and other public transportation tools that serve different specific route pairs, so the bus can only attract passengers going to/from area that have no other public transports on this route.
>>1269869Range of 370k to 1.6 millionhttps://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/BRTBrochure.pdfiirc a standard low floor diesel electric non-BRT bus starts around 400k for my system. wHy dOeSNt aMeRIcA iNVesT iN tRaNSit?
>>1263432>>1263387One problem is LRT isn't really popular in China and those few tram system they have aren't exactly working greatly so why would they export that instead of promoting something that they're relatively good at making
>>1269902If that's the figure taken from previous purchases, then corruption investigation probe should be launched against some of the more expensive examples.For 1.6 Million you can even buy a plane.
>>1262590>>1256547I was offered the position this afternoon. :)
>>1257356>fracking>ethanol>EVsNever gonna happen, unfortunately.
>>1257565>boats will begin using nuclear reactorsFTFY
>>1258271>Depends, they only work in flat placesSan Francisco would like a word.
>>1260332Who fucking cares? So do cities. So do beaver dams. So do bird nests.
>>1262698I honestly can't bring myself to believe this.
>>1262762>tfw my city got federal funding to fully fund two BRT lines and pay for their entire operations cost for four years and the city council stonewalled all of the BRT parts (dedicated ROW, level boarding, pre-pay, etc) and just got some new buses and put up some overhangs on the sidewalk because they didn't want to give up two lanes on the most hellish road imaginable (pic related)Fuck yeah.
>>1269647Yes, but generally the only poor people in developed nations are stupid, otherwise they'd have taken advantage of one of the endless opportunities afforded to them. Somewhere like Kenya does not have widespread opportunity, so many people there who would be successful in a developed nation are still poor.
>>1270675There's a much better one of these that I can't find right now that deals with BRT creep.
>>1263383Moderate conervatives feel better thinking if/when the system fails they'll get their lanes back.Also optics. Train track just *looks* more expensive than red painted lanes and concrete platforms.Also fear. Trains smash cars into scrap, but buses only kill pedestrians (or so it seems).
Can commie-block cities be much worse, than suburbs for nature?I mean, how many tits have you seen in commie-block cities?
>>1270733That's still a starting point for dedicated public transportation
>>1270799I live in a commieblock and there are great tits, blue tits, marsh tits, and long-tailed bushtits flying around right outside my window. In fact, a pair of great tits nests in the very wall of my commieblock. Commieblocks don't pose a threat to nature as long as you leave enough space between them. I've personally observed around 50 species of birds plus a bunch of small mammals all around the house.
>>1270799Le Corbusier did nothing wrong.
>>1271038>Commieblocks don't pose a threat to nature as long as you leave enough space between themHow tall is your commie block?I used to live in Moscow, near 'forest' (more like a park with trees), and there were a lot of birds and even squirrels. But somewhere in center there are no squirrels or tits, woodpeckers... Only pigeons. Looks like they are unironically planning to plant houses chink style, without any space in between and 9000 stories high. And it is somewhat concerning. I guess with common-sense™ any type of planning (suburbs, commie-blocks) will have nearly identical impact on local nature (Commie-block would be slightly more efficient in terms of transportation, while suburbs will keep more trees and shit)... But in case of full-retard planning, suburbs will cause less problems, than overgrown handshake-commieblock city.>>1271126Maybe.
>>1270743Why cagers don't see trams? I mean, they are 20m+ long sausages.
>>1270733To me, the hypothetical main advantage of BRT is that it's more acceptable in American political discourse than trying to suggest building rail, and provides a ROW for future rail, with the infrastucture having the ability to be used somewhere else once rail is built. The problem is, that's never happened. Either, as in my case, the BRT gets walked down to nicer buses, or if it actually gets built as BRT then there was probably enough political will to build rail in the first place and that should have been done.
>>1271126if you like sterilized dystopian shitholes, maybe.
>>1271132It's on a slope, so seven or eight stories depending on from where you're looking. It holds ~160 people. The closest blocks are 100 to 200 meters away. So again, the green space between houses is very important. But this goes for commietopia and single-home suburban hellscape equally. I've previously "lived in" a very poor culturally diverse borough of the city which consisted of nothing but commie blocks, at a significantly higher density than my current neighborhood. Even that ghetto had great tits, blackbirds, robins, wood pigeons, fieldfares as well as rooks and jackdaws nesting together in the trees and houses. The important thing is to not let those residential areas stretch on for miles and miles, but to interrupt them with green areas after one or two kilometers.
>>1271133That's a great question. My city has dozens of car and tram collisions every year, and not a single one of those is caused by the tram driver. Theoretically, if you assume that drives are following traffic rules, blonking lights and signage at all times, not a single one of those should be happening. Really makes me think.
>>1271153Try telling me his vision wouldn't have improved Paris.
>>1271268That picture is horrifying.
>>1271223>It's on a slope, so seven or eight stories depending on from where you're looking. It holds ~160 people.Well, that is what I'd call acceptable commie block.>The closest blocks are 100 to 200 meters away. So again, the green space between houses is very importantAgree, otherwise you can see nudes in block next to you without binocular. > Even that ghetto had great tits, blackbirds, robins, wood pigeons, fieldfares as well as rooks and jackdaws nesting together in the trees and houses. Then it wasn't as bad as some hoods of Moscow, or newly built shit.
>>127122950% of cagers shouldn't have a licence I guess.No, really, how they can't notice 20 tonn 20 meters things?
>>1271306>otherwise you can see nudes in block next to you without binocularI could already hear people violently shagging in the flat above me, so I wouldn't mind. But I get what you mean. I guess all in all we can agree that commieblocks are fine if done right? >>1271315Not doing the obligatory look over your shoulder, I guess? Many collisions are caused by car drivers making a u-turn where they're not allowed to, or turning left without looking out for the tram. In those and almost alll other cases, it's just reckless driving, or it happens under the influence of drugs. By the way, I'm typing this on a train I almost missed because an accident had blocked the tracks of the tram I used. Gonna have to find out what happened there before making assumptions.
>>1271368>>1271315My local LRT runs down the center of the road. Cars are allowed to make left turns only when they are given a green arrow. Many people are impatient and will turn before their turn when they have a red arrow. It was so bad it became policy for the LRT operators to blow their horn as they approached cars in the left turn lane. Apparently a red arrow and a square sign that lights up when a train is approaching isn't enough for some cagers.
>>1271368>I guess all in all we can agree that commieblocks are fine if done right?I guess so. >I could already hear people violently shagging in the flat above me, so I wouldn't mind.It is OK, there is no cheap way to fix noise insulation in commie-blocks.
>>1262698>first, therefore implied most important, point mentioned is "ending segregation"So it's another "kill whitey" measure.
>POC may at some point in the future be allowed to live in the same neighborhoods as white people>WAAAAH WHITE GENOCIDE GREAT REPLACEMENT IS REAL This is you. This is what you sound like to everybody else.
>don't drive>job hunting>90% of jobs are located in impractical-to-reach places because city is a sprawling shitmess of stripmalls, gas stations, single-level warehouse style stores with giant parking lots halfway down an otherwise empty road with a few houses and tumbleweeds, highways all over the fucking place being nearly impassable like a river of flaming lava and causing disgusting instant-lung-cancer pollution that renders entire regions of the city a ghosttown of the most crippling poverty slums, roadside litter, 5 lane highways on a road that just leads to some other section of equally abysmally depressing nothingness, and a million gas stations and intersections you'll get murdered trying to cross on foot because the cars don't respect pedestrians as no one fucking walks because walking has been made into such a dangerous and inconvenient activity it's positively unthinkable that anyone but a hobo would use the bus system and might need to cross a street on foot, and someone just puts an office tower in the middle of a vast field of nothing in the middle of nowhere surrounded by nothing but suburban sprawl because land prices were cheap>have to turn down countless positions that I could access if I were willing to cageI'm already lined up to move the fuck somewhere better when my lease is up. WHY, just WHY, are our cities built this way. 10 mile + radius in any direction of sprawl, depression, and 5 lane roads always jam-packed with cagers. fuck america, I wish Kim Jong Il would nuke us already. Fuck my great grandparents for moving here. I have to turn down yet another job because the commute would be a fucking nightmare and I'd get hit by a car trying to cross the 5-lane cageway I would need to cross to reach the bus stop. And that's not even an exaggeration. Cagers won't respect the pedestrian light because they want to turn and don't want to wait, they'd rather murder someone than wait five seconds for them to safely cross.
>>1272017>I have to turn down yet another job because the commute would be a fucking nightmare and I'd get hit by a car trying to cross the 5-lane cageway I would need to cross to reach the bus stop. And that's not even an exaggeration.That is some really shitty city planning.I think that anything more than 2 lane should requite underground or bridge crossing. >Cagers won't respect the pedestrian light because they want to turn and don't want to wait, they'd rather murder someone than wait five seconds for them to safely cross.Niggers, cyclers, and crackheads. Normal drivers (or riders) understand, that why traffic lights exist.Also, I find US turn-on-green-for-pedestrians algorithm confusing and dangerous. In Europe everything is much more clear, red light means no, green light means yes. If US it is fucking nightmare, as pedestrian you have to turn your head 270 degrees, in order to see cars, and driver have to think about turning, car in front, pedestrians. Just too much unneeded load on driver. Also, on some roads it is safer to cross on red light for pedestrians, than on green.US road infrastructure and codes definitely needs to be completely redesigned. Red turning lights are cancer, US headlight pattern is cancer...
And yeah, miles and inferior units are cancer.
>>1272017I know how you feel (I drive, but choose not to own a car). Our society preaches "freedom" but is perfectly okay in making cities so that people are deprived of choices, and most people are practically enslaved to their cars (must pay for gas, insurance, and car payments whether they want to or not for as live as they live).Likewise, I don't think there's any good solution to the bigger problem than literally destroying the horrible cities we've built and starting from scratch, and on a personal level to be very careful about where and how we live, to avoid participating in this tragedy of the commons.
>>1272035>tragedy of the commonsThe tragedy of the commons is a shitty argument for private property. I think the allegory you're looking for is the prisoner dilemma: a situation where a choice that makes sense from the perspective of the individual has awful consequences for everyone.
>>1272031Imagine getting this upset over headlights.
>>1272035I feel this. I've turned down innumerable jobs because it just wasn't viable by public transit, but if I were willing to drive a car it would be. I shouldn't be forced by practical necessity to buy an entire damned car just to get around. If we were willing right now to institute development restrictions, it would resolve without demolition in about 30-50 years. But no one is. Our cities have the growth foresight of cancer cells. I could have had a job a month ago if I had a car. It's just unacceptable. I refuse to drive a cage, I just refuse. If you don't conform to the norm you have zero freedom, so what does "freedom" even mean then? Jack shit. Our lifestyles are ordained by boomerfucks and the system. Being forced to spend hundreds of dollars a month on a car is not freedom. >>1272031I feel it. The cars are turning at the same time the peds are crossing, and ultimately if you're the ped and the car wants to go, you don't have a choice in the matter. It's asinine. >ped bridgesHAH. We're lucky if there's sidewalks. The US is a third world country. With how sprawled it is, we'd go bankrupt trying to provide the same infrastructure quality that europeans can enjoy. And I'm talking on a city-to-city comparison. Americans say hurr durr muurka big. There's no reason Prague can have something that Houston can't, they're both cities. But americans don't even realize how hard they're shafted. Probably because they're too fat to consider walking a viable transport means... People here think walking a mile is some amazing feat. It's deplorable. And they don't even understand WHY they're getting shafted.
>>1273041>The US is a third world country.Thirdworld shitholes even have this.
>>1273117Probably. There's only a handful of pedestrian bridges in my entire city. We really are lucky just to have a sidewalk that isn't rubble or closed entirely, pedestrian lights only in the more well-walked sections. Do other places actually have ped bridges as like, a regular thing? I can't even imagine it. That must be utopia. Being able to cross a street without risking your life... More than once I've had to play chicken with cars to cross because there was no other way to get over, there simply wasn't, not if they don't respect the ped light and let you go.
>>1273125> pedestrian lights only in the more well-walked sections. > More than once I've had to play chicken with cars to cross because there was no other way to get over, there simply wasn't, not if they don't respect the ped light and let you go.Here's your problem. > That must be utopia. Being able to cross a street without risking your life... If a place needs a footbridge to cross a "street", it's dystopian.
>>1272031> Also, I find US turn-on-green-for-pedestrians algorithm confusing and dangerous.> In Europe everything is much more clear, red light means no, green light means yes. If US it is fucking nightmare, as pedestrian you have to turn your head 270 degrees, in order to see cars, and driver have to think about turning, car in front, pedestrians. Just too much unneeded load on driver.> Also, on some roads it is safer to cross on red light for pedestrians, than on green.> US road infrastructure and codes definitely needs to be completely redesigned.> Red turning lights are cancer,No the solution is simple. Priority is on the pedestrian. That's how Japan and other places do it. The cancer is on drivers and policies. not the traffic control measure.
>>1273131>Priority is on the pedestrian.I know, but this makes me super uncomfortable.
>>1273128>If a place needs a footbridge to cross a "street", it's dystopian.We put multi-lane high speed roads right next to parks here... you can't actually walk anywhere without a risk because there's one of these high speed roads every 10 blocks or so. some you just can't cross, there's no sidewalk at all, no ped light, you'll have to walk on the side of the road ankle deep in litter and tire scraps. if the cars don't expect pedestrians they won't bother to look. I know it's dystopian. It's also the burgerclapistani standard. Not to mention the fascination with literally interstate highways running through the middle of cities... and they'll never tear it all down and do it again because of the sunk cost. they'll keep running and expanding the roads and driving communities further apart until we live in a series of boxes connected by cageways instead of anything resembling an environment built for humans. And they LIKE IT.
>>1270379Very nice! congrats
>>1273131You don't gamble with your life to see if others remember and follow something that they probably don't
It looks like Minneapolis hired a consultant to do a ArcGIS StoryMap about land use and the financial implications on the city. Some pretty interesting data visualizations in here. It goes over the Twin Cities' unique Fiscal Disparities Program. Anybody else know of cool Storymaps?https://urban3.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=be8482e673f0436a8fa8029902dbd154
>>1270379well done friend
Walmart-oriented development > transit-oriented development.
>>1274476Hey, it's better than the alternative.
I'm fairly certain I was the first one to ever make a /upg/ thread a couple years back, look what it's grown into. Happy planning everyone and FUCK cagers!
>>1275087Pretty sure that this is true. I recognize your name
>>1260213The first is better known as a "traffic circle" which, outside of tiny European towns with respected 10 mph speed limits, are a safety nightmare. To get to the inner circle you're making a turn across two lanes of active traffic with no stops, and then doing the same thing to get out.The second "proper" roundabout makes each lane explicit in what it's used for (right/straight or left) and kicks you out of the circle eventually. A correct roundabout will also have yield signs on all entrances. This reduces the conflict points to sideswipes and t-bones.
>>1275354I still don't understand how the spiral roundabout is different. Do people have to give way at the dashed lines while _inside_ the roundabout?? Otherwise I can't see any difference from normal roundabout rules in Australia:- Give way to anyone already on the roundabout- Obey the arrow markings telling you which lane you may travel through the roundabout to get to your exit. Usually this means: Only use the left lane to turn left or go straight, and the right lane to go straight or turn right.- Do NOT change lanes in the roundaboutCan't understand why you say it's a safety nightmare unless some of the above are not the case in your jurisdiction?
>>1275354that's an awfully long way to say "they painted the stripes slightly differently but it only works if the drivers understand this and also decide to obey them instead of play with their phone and sail through however they feel. "
>>1260213Is the red car making an error?
>>1275087<3 thank you for your service. I've been pretty consistently making the threads the last few years. Weird to think I've been doing this since applying for grad school and now am about to graduate with an urban planning degree.
>>1275200Heh>>1276066Thank you for *your* service o7Also please tell me about studying urban planning, is it really so much paper pushing? Is it worth it to study do you think? Sadly I'm only an amateur that loves to look at various cities but I need to learn more!
>>1273981>shape all your buildings like radiator finsI guess le corbusier didn't understand what passive cooling was
>>1276751He designed that on purpose. Just like with radiator fins, it maximizes the surface area. Not for cooling in this case though, but for windows.
>>1257094>Design simple, direct routesThis is the route of the bus I sometimes take to work. Kill me please.
What are the greatest obstacles to trains?
>>1276841pennies on the railssource: my dad
>>12754081. Again there are two meanings of "spiral roundabout". >>12602502. No. This is for channelization and enforcing the no-lane-change rule. Thing is traditional "roundabouts", even for some that are yield to circulation, allow both lane change and diverging at any point. The markings are to guide and remind drivers.
>>1276841Either cagers who can't obey crossing gates or other trains.
Can any English people tell me which city this is? It's along the River Ouse it looks like. /upg/, is the right an improvement of the left?
>>1276950It's York, as some very simple googling might have told you.And it's impossible to say, I'd need much more information to judge that.
>>1276950jesus christ thats horrifying
>>1276982I saw England has 3 rivers called 'Ouse' and figured it wasn't worth the amateur effort so I referred to experts.
>>1276815It needs to pick up more people
>>1275087Thank me because i revived this thread many times after it had been abandoned
>>1276950Is this an old proposal? York is an ancient lovely city, British urban planning has generally been terrible.
It's amazing to read victor hugo's description of medieval paris and comparisson to his own time, bashing everything that came with the renaissance and after. I would have loved to see gothing paris's busy streets.I would like to think that it would be possible to have these dense and organic cities today if cities used exclusively rail, where the city would be denser near the stations. In this scenario there wouldn't be cars of course, aside from service vehicles, and building regulations should be remodelled to empower individual owners instead of developers.I suppose some cyberpunk worlds create a similar scenario in a more futuristic setting. Kowloon walled city could also be seen as a manifestaition of this organic creation within a imited space (in medieval cities, there would be real walls limiting where people would prefer to live). Anyway, I'd like to see a city built with the following conditions:- No cars allowed- Transportation based on LRT or Metro- Explicit outer limit for building- Regulations that encourage small development enterprises (usually individual lot owners), but with a height limit of around 20-25 meters- Well marked civic landmarks
>>1277855Also I just realised, in order to form these high density spots there must be high demand for living there. In KWC for example, it was a refuge from the city's authorities. In medieval cities, you'd live inside walls to stay safe in case of wars. Unfortunately i see no current condition which would make such a city have high living demand.
Are there hard numbers on how much certain types of alternative transport, simply adding more lanes, or facilitation of them (trains, busses, bike paths,) reduce traffic? Is there a best solution? I want numbers, not talking points.
>>1277871You can calculate passenger throughput really easily, but it doesn't take into account induced demand.So we know exactly how many people can travel down a lane in a highway every hour, but we also know that there will be more people on the highway after the lane is built, because people will take advantage of the extra infrastructure.So it's a lot of guesswork. The reason why there's a bias towards public transportation is that public transportation can carry way, way more people in a given amount of space than private transportation can.
So now that the dust has settledAre grids good or not?
>>1278453They make navigation easy as fuck, but there's a danger that traffic will go too fast through residential areas, because there's no real distinction between the different heirarchy of roads. You can solve this by making the streets really narrow so that people have to drive more slowly. Also, some people think that it looks too repetitive and uninteresting, but these people are fags who probably live in cookie cutter subdevelopments with a bunch of winding roads and cul de sacs.TL;DR yes
>>1276815why don't they just fucking make it circular?Is it a PVR of 1 1bph job?
>>1262698>>1262752>>1263318>>1270673>>1266139Minneapolitan here. Don't worry, NIMBYs are fighting this with every bone in their body. Every city meeting, hoards of elderly and "concerned" middle age white women stand up and cry about "neighborhood character" and "Lost parking spots in front of my house.". Luckily the city council has stood pretty firm on this, and even walked back their quadplex ruling to a triplex. It doesn't help though, no mater what the city concedes, people still complain about something else. You literally cannot win with that crowd. There are several lawsuits in progress. Ironically, many of the opponents will be dead by 2040.There was a neighborhood here who fought against sidewalks going in, because they didn't want "people walking by their houses." Literally, a neighborhood in the middle of the city, and they're worried about people walking by. So much so that they sued, and won to make sure they wouldn't install sidewalks. As a retaliatory measure though, the city put them at the VERY bottom of the streets repairs list (they had been at the top, the street repairs came with sidewalks) which means it will be another 60 years until the city would be willing to fix their streets.I do like the mayor a lot. He's the first one we've had who lives in a condo and not in a huge house on one of the lakes. He also bikes everywhere, but so did the previous mayor, Betsy "Bike Lanes" Hodges.
>>1278600That's a really nice gif! Are there any more like it?Minneapolis' biggest suburb, Saint Paul ;), is where the city put the resident's at the back of the line for street replacement. Some of the argument was about losing trees but I think that is more coded language about not wanting people to walk in front of their houses. Why do people still think it's okay to only allow people to walk in the street?Saint Paul has been redoing their comprehensive plan too, but has had much less controversy. When they had a public hearing about their plan the majority of speakers advocated FOR more density. Part of it is they are less specific about policy changes but they also apparently have allowed duplexes everywhere since before 1975. I didn't know this and it's difficult to see that as being obvious when reading their historic zoning map. Attached is an updated draft. https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2019/01/with-broad-strokes-approach-st-paul-sidesteps-2040-plan-controversy/
>>1278607I reread the article and I misread something. Saint Paul allowed for duplexes anywhere before 1975 and was caught up in the wave of downzoning like the rest of country. But since most land use is grandfathered in, the city already had a diverse housing mix because of the previous allowance. It's amazing to see how downzoning tried to change existing neighborhoods. For example in Manhattan, 40% of current buildings would not longer be allowed under current rules. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-percent-of-manhattans-buildings-could-not-be-built-today.htmlDoes anyone have any good reads on the wave of NIMBYism and other housing restrictions that were imposed in the 70s? I would think Proposition 13 in California was in a similar vain of thought. I'm fascinated how some of these property restrictions have contributed to housing shortages and unaffordable rents in communities.
>>1278607That's right! It was St. Paul, my apologies. I get the stories from the two mixed up all the time since I'm following all of the urban planning people in both. Images came from here https://dippedinacid.com/Minneapolis-2040-Poster-SeriesWhatever happened with the Ford Site? Last I'd heard they were planning on making it all SFH? Or was that just what residents wanted?
>>1278498I'd rather just have "bubbles" of no car roads in the grid instead of adding congestion
>>1278903It depends on the kind of grid.I'm thinking in terms of the right road layout for a community of single family residential.For a busy city, narrowing the roads isn't a brilliant idea.
Looking at the recent debate in Hong Kong, is it actually a good idea to create a "premium" road network?As you might know, there is a harbor in Hong Kong and there are a few tunnels that across both shores. Some of them are government tunnels and the other one of them is privately operated tunnel. The government tunnel cost 2-3USD to use while the private tunnel cost 10USD (for an ordinary car, situation similar for other transportation tools). The result of this pricing is that the private tunnel is mostly congestion-free in most part of the day while the government tunnels are almost always congested. The government hence formed a "deal" with the tunnel company to lower the private tunnel fee to 6USD and raise the government tunnel fee to 5USD, hoping that it could attract more drivers use the private tunnel instead to alleviate congestion. Most citizens agree to the principle with such deal but disagree with doubling the government tunnels passage fee.Now, is the deal to average out the congestion really a good idea? Or would it be better to have a mostly congestion-free premium road that can let road users who wish to pay more to be able to have a congestion-free route to quickly and directly reach different parts of the city?
>>1279483Hey how about we start a HK thread?It's not a "private" tunnel. The BOT franchise is expiring soon. >Now, is the deal to average out the congestion really a good idea? Or would it be better to have a mostly congestion-free premium road that can let road users who wish to pay more to be able to have a congestion-free route to quickly and directly reach different parts of the city? The problem behind the idea here is there's no choice with cross-harbour routes. It can't be compared to toll lanes or toll express roads. The idea can work with the western (historically evaluated) or central (contemproarily considered) fourth harbour crossing road.
>>1279490To supplement.>As you might know, there is a harbor in Hong Kong and there are a few tunnels that across both shores. The government's definition of "cross-harbour" is not always consistent and helpful. Historically, "Western Harbour" had been termed for the area of the road Green Island Link. This reflects a planning debacle and causes confusion in public discourse.
>>1279490>Hey how about we start a HK thread?Good idea. Perhaps start with annual bus RPP discussion.>It's not a "private" tunnel. The BOT franchise is expiring soon. >privately operated>>1279491>The government's definition of "cross-harbour" is not always consistent and helpful. Historically, "Western Harbour" had been termed for the area of the road Green Island Link. This reflects a planning debacle and causes confusion in public discourse.This is probably going to be the next tunnel they're going to construct, given the East Lantau Metropolis plan
>>1279507I fear it will only be the two of us plus several few. I couldn't decide a thread image yet. >annual bus RPP discussionDo you browse plastic-talk, HKBF, Lihkg, Hkgolden, simply roam on Facebook, or what...>tunnel /n/ can use a roads and streets general
>>1278908How is this for the right kind of grid?
>>1278453>>1278498Depends on location. Residential neighborhoods that don't want through-traffic should avoid road grids, but include pedestrian paths that function like grids. Many "dream home" buyers also tend to want interesting lots to build on, so if you can break grids by respecting natural land features like creeks, outcrops, and nice forest you've got the best of both worlds.Downtown, though, grids are unmatched. Of course, you can't redesign downtowns anymore, so it's a moot point.One factor I've noticed with grids that I want to share: transit stations on grids have diamond-shaped catchment areas, because the 1/4-1/2 mile distance people will walk for transit can only be covered at right angles. This means transit-enabled areas along a corridor zig-zag in size, UNLESS the transit corridor is a diagonal. Take pic-related: outer milwaukee is built on a mega-grid, but there are about a half-dozen diagonal avenues that point directly at downtown. Relative to the mega-grid, the catchment areas would still form diamonds, but relative to the diagonal avenues, the catchment areas form solid blocks in a line. This is why Milwaukee is perfectly suited for BRT along these diagonal avenues.
>>1279533That sounds extremely comfy, since this is outside of St. Louis, aka negro central, it would likely prevent crime and make for a safe little comfy neighborhood.
>>1279525>I fear it will only be the two of us plus several few. >I couldn't decide a thread image yet. >>1279812>>annual bus RPP discussion>Do you browse plastic-talk, HKBF, Lihkg, Hkgolden, simply roam on Facebook, or what...Occasionally
>>1279621Has St. Louis not had any gentrification or returning to the city? Those look like rundown 60 year old homes from an inner ring suburb. Poverty is moving to the suburbs in most cities and inner ring suburbs are the first to have people of colour move into the neighborhood "change the neighborhood character".
>>1271889The term "people of color" is stupid just like every other word for race. I'm not white, I'm pink. LeBron is brown, not black. Complete blackness is the absence of color. I still don't think there are any good words for race.
>>1279533>mfw this image isn't photoshopped
>>1275087Toronto's streetcar system was fucked over by cagers and it won't work properly until every stretch of rail is in a dedicated lane with signal priority.
>>1279533This is great design if there are other ways out for pedestrians.
>>1280209What does that even have to do with anything? Red hair isn't red either, it's just a slightly reddish tint of brown. Black tea isn't black. The red sea isn't red. But we just use words that way. People know what you're referring to even if a skin color doesn't match #000000.
>>1280212>Based and redpilledOther than being disconnected from every other street the other problem I have is this with this route: Am I missing something with the pathfinding used here? What stops you from turning from Radiom Dr into Lemona Dr and bypassing most of that distance?
>>1280380Because the anon tell Google map to make a route via the dot near exit
>>1256605It's always a bad idea to plan something from the sky that's all
>>1278908>single family residential.Single family residential should be outlawed in anywhere that is not a farm
>>1280440>Single family residential should be outlawed in anywhere that is not a farmFuck off, bugman
>>1280548Go back to /pol/, seething incel.
>>1280440>>1280548I agree that exclusively single family residential zoning areas should be banned, but not that single family residential buildings should be banned. Anyone who believes allowing 2-story blocks of flats, quadruplexes and townhouses in their neighbourhood is bad is paranoid.
>>1277832thank you for your service o7post urban aesthetic btw
>>1280211>>1280212To walk from backyard to backyard on legal streets takes an hour.
>>1280870Damn, it dropped my attached image.
>>1280871>>1280870I have a couple of these.
>>1280874>>1280872>>1280871This might be a repeat, just with a stupid meme format.
>>1280871>>1280872>>1280874>>1280876Fake and straight
>>1267886looks like a mini-gulf hole
Reason why it is wrong to pursue high density development
>>1282667sum it up pls no way im gonna read a book because of 1 (one) 4chan post
>>1282780Take a careful look at that cover and you'll realize it's bullshit anyway
>>1282780Review 1:>I am a resident of Marin County who only a few months ago woke up to the realization that developers had put themselves into the driver's seat and were steering our beautiful suburban/rural county toward high-density urban sprawl. In trying to understand the situation, I quickly discovered that it is extremely complex. This book has allowed me to make up for lost time. Bob Silvestri presents "a thoughtful presentation of facts, uncovers the illogical arguments, the questionable land use practices and political gamesmanship," as a previous reviewer so succinctly states.>This book is relevant for more than just Marin County, CA. Other counties face the same issues -- Westchester NY and Irvine, CA come to mind. This history of land use planning demonstrates that the current lust for high density development is driven more for the love of profits than it is about the environment, economic development or social equityReview 2:>The Best Laid Plans is a good read about the affordable housing game and state mandates to develop high density, under the false belief it will reduce green house gas emissions and save the environment.>I'm not sure what's more ridiculous: The extent to which the construction industry is shamelessly trying to tell local governments what to do, or the contortions to which "neutral" consultants twist themselves into top-down social engineering.>Correcting planning and affordable housing challenges was never about haves vs have nots. It's about accuracy vs. inaccuracy, good housing vs. bad development, affordable housing solutions vs. whatever the construction industry wants for profits and gain.>This book should be required reading for every appointed government official.
>>1282812Reviews are not summaries
>>1282870No one say it is. It just show you the colors of the books.
>>1282667"robbing communities of local control" is a funny way of saying infringing on my rights as a landowner to build what I want on something that I own. Not allowing me to build densely limits the value of my land and is THEFT from me. It is a taking without compensation which is ILLEGAL in the United States. Local control is codeword for telling your neighbor what they can and can't do with something they OWN and have no rights to. Marin is one of the wealthiest counties in the United States and being part of America's elite isn't enough, they want to control YOUR land, YOUR rights, and eliminate YOUR choices.
>>1282667>opinions of a NIMBY boomer, the book.
>>1283434This seems really nice aesthetically without giving up too much of the usefulness a grid provides
>>1257886>>1257890What about triangles instead of squares ?
>>1283434>>1283640>>1284881Those radiating wheel patters are great if there's a lot of important stuff in the center, like a subway station or the whole city center. But here, there's just a lawn
>>1285058It is a park...you know where pensioners lounge, children play etc
>>1282881It is unironically community communism. I bet the same late 40's howsewives with short tinted hair who run these local homeowners organizations and enforce absurd property roles are the sames ones who quickly denounce any for of communism. Disgusting. The law should do somehting about the blatant theft that excessive regularizations brings about, especially in suburban cities.
>>1269041>One of the biggest arguments against going cashless for my system is that low-income riders use cash much more than other ridersThis doesn't become an issue here. The card can be recharged pretty much anywhere (srsly, it's not hard to find a recharging spot) and wih cash. Poor people aren't that dumb, they can use a card. Especially if you waive the inital card fee for anyone who is on social security, for example.
>>1269041>>1285143Better question: if somebody is too dumb to use a card, do you want them on your transit?
>>1276841competing economically with subsidised roads>>1285145good point
We've hit page 10 so I've started a new thread. >>1285314>>1285314>>1285314
>>1265831In Paris, we have 14 mid-range subway lines (the classic "metro"), 5 wide-range subway lines (the "RER") and 9 other lines that stop at the main stations, for 28 different colors in total. The only thing thank to we can't confuse them is that the classic subway lines are in plain circles, the wide lines are in light circles and the other lines in light squares.
>>1268312No, that bus hijacker was not robbing the bus, he was crashing it killed and injured many on board and on the street, in order to express his dissatisfaction against the government and their collaboration with property developers to take his home and his land without proper compensation
these are nice