Back by popular demand, ITT we discuss the greatest electrified railroad operation in world history. The proven corporate conspiracy to dismantle and abandon this operation, largely perpetrated from within the company itself by its own top-level officials, is one of the greatest crimes against humanity ever conceived and makes the Great American Streetcar Scandal look like amateurish in comparison. Gone before its time, but not forgotten, the Milwaukee Road's Pacific Coast Extension lives on in the minds of all who encounter it. This thread is dedicated to the men and women who built and maintained this system, and the photographers who filmed and preserved this unique operation for posterity.
Some relevant background info to share before we get into the good stuff.
It's important to note that some of the railroad's electric boxcab motors pictured dated from the beginning of electrified operations in the 1910s, and lasted until the end of electrification in 1974. A continuous mainline service record of over 50 years, I dare you to find a diesel that can beat that!
Pictured, Little Joes (right) and boxcabs together in 1973.
Little Joes. Chicago North Shore also owned several of these, nicknamed because they were originally ordered by the Soviet Union, unable to be shipped there when completed by GE after the Cold War heated up. As a result a dozen of them were sold to Milwaukee Road.
>The Milwaukee Road had offered to buy all twenty, plus the spare parts inventory, for $1 million, little more than scrap value—an offer which GE accepted. However, the Milwaukee's Board of Directors would not release the money. After the start of the Korean War, the Milwaukee needed more locomotives on their electrified mainline, and was also beset by a coal strike which necessitated sending most diesels back East (Milwaukee Lines East steam engines still burned coal, unlike Lines West steamers which were oil-burning). The Board of Directors returned to GE only to discover that eight locomotives and all the spare parts had been sold, and that the price for the remaining twelve locomotives was $1 million. Of the eight sold, three had gone to the Chicago South Shore and South Bend Railroad (the South Shore Line), and five to the Companhia Paulista de Estradas de Ferro of Brazil.Top management was already incompetent by the 1950s, it seems.
I'm done dumping for awhile, hope you enjoy!
>>1233958beautiful photos, thank you very much
>>1233952they weren't incompetent, they were corrupt
>>1234004True, had a momentary lapse of judgment by calling top management merely incompetent!
Never forget what was taken from us.
>>1234037Amen brother.Spare a moment of your time to also remember cousins lost in the other side of the Atlantic.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester–Sheffield–Wath_electric_railway>Sheffield must be the largest city on the planet to have had electrified trains and then have them ripped up on purple and not due to an act of war or natural disaster.
I get that it was corporate sabotage, but I'm still not entirely understanding motive.
>>1233925By popular demand? Nobody was asking for this. Trains are fucking horrible. Just went to Montréal on a Via rail train and it took 6 hours because of an hour delay. This caused me to miss my next train meaning I missed the last buses in my home town. I had to walk 7 kilometres at midnight. I got home at 3 am, what should've taken 7-8 hours was a 15 hour odyssey. Hungover as fuck too which made it all the more miserable. Not to mention the dumb kid kicking my seat the entire time. The first time on my way there was decent though, talked to a cool guy from Japan.
>>1234053Thanks for the link. Britain really started going to shit in the 1970s, didn't it? Then again, so did the US.>>1234074Infiltration of top-ranks by BN-associated men who wanted to eliminate their only competition in the PNW. Aside from that, greedy corporate shareholders wanted to divorce the railroad's vast and valuable land and timber holdings from the railroad itself. The easiest way to do that was to drive the road into bankruptcy. And the easiest way to do *that* without it being blatant was to de-electrify, neglect, and eventually abandon the most profitable stretch of track the railroad owned. Just read the image here >>1234074 it's all covered. >>1234075>By popular demand?I meant someone else on this board asked about a thread like this. And no one cares about your degenerate drinking stories, buddy. Take it up with the Canadian government, you've got a lot bigger problems to deal with up there than delayed trains.
>>1234074>>1234078Sorry, meant to link here >>1233927
>>1234078I actually miss your rampant shit posting of every thread with MILW posts about 3 years ago. Especially now that I have an appreciation for Second Generation Diesels - these photos are a real time capsule. Thank you MILW shit-poster - don't ever stop.
>>1234075Milwaukee Road discussion is always in demand here. There once was a time this board was not filled with lycra wearing manchildren riding pushbikes.https://youtu.be/TLsffBS_-vwSit back and watch the glory.
>>1234116>>1234117Thank you for the support, gentlemen. I'm glad the MILW (truth)posting had a lasting effect. Together we can Make /n/ Great Again, one Little Joe and Boxcab at a time. And thanks for the great video. Reminds me that I made several MILW webms, ripped from a DVD I bought featuring the road. Making these is one of those skills you learn and then quicklyforget through lack of practice. Hope you enjoy, these might be familiar to some of you but it also might be like seeing them for the first time.
>>1234116And you're right about the diesel aspect. MILW was truly one of a kind in having electric locomotives seamlessly MU'd to diesels in their trains. MILW Little Joes + SD45s = God-tier combo.
>>1234078I find that idea pretty far-fetched
>>1234158You are entitled to your opinion, the important thing is to realize that you are wrong.
>>1234164In other words it wasn't a cabal of BN personnel infiltrating the Milwaukee Road nor greedy shareholders forcing a selloff of valuable timberThe railroad neglected its own assets and suffered insurmountable long-run losses as a result. Just like the Rock Island and Penn Central. Got it
>>1234164FYI, rob_l (Rob Leachman) on trainorders was an officer in UP during the whole time this was going down in the 1970s, and later became a transportation economics professor at UC Berkeley. I dare you to find a more credible source backing your position that it's a conspiracy theory instead of a conspiracy FACT.
>>1234174>In 1966, Quinn left the Milwaukee Road to become president of the Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Railroad. In 1970, the railroad merged with three other lines based in the Pacific Northwest to form the Burlington Northern Railroad, and Quinn was named the Burlington Northern's vice chairman.>Quinn returned in 1970 to his former employer, the Milwaukee Road, as its chairman. One of his noteworthy actions was his 1972 decision to discontinue the electrification of the Milwaukee Road's lines in the Pacific Northwest and to sell the copper wires above those tracks and shift to diesel locomotives on those lines. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-william-quinn-obituary-met-20151118-story.html#Umm, try again sweetie.
>>1234176You're taking this awfully personally>>1234180In other words he did what corporate executives in most industries do (hop around from one company to another, including competitors). Electrification didn't make sense in an era of cheap fuel.Might be easier for me to believe there was a huge conspiracy to bankrupt the MILW if it was the only one that went bankrupt during that time, but it's far more credible that market forces pushed them out. This was a time of significant contraction in the railroad industry and, like a handful of other railroads, the Milwaukee Road was left without a chair when the music stopped.
>>1234188>You're taking this awfully personallyNot really, you seem oddly personally invested in an argument where you are bringing no actual evidence to support your position, in the face of concrete evidence to the contrary. >In other words he did what corporate executives in most industries do (hop around from one company to another, including competitors).Yes, it's extremely common for a chief executive to hop into the management of his previous employer's main rival and gut their most valuable asset. Happens all the time. >Electrification didn't make sense in an era of cheap fuel.Yes, the 1970s is a decade notorious for its cheap petroleum fuels. Keep in mind that the decision to de-electrify was made in 1972, was forcibly postponed due to the 1973 OPEC embargo, and then it was still undertaken in spring of 1974 under Quinn's management. Really makes you think. >Might be easier for me to believe there was a huge conspiracy to bankrupt the MILW if it was the only one that went bankrupt during that time, but it's far more credible that market forces pushed them out. This was a time of significant contraction in the railroad industry and, like a handful of other railroads, the Milwaukee Road was left without a chair when the music stopped.You don't even know anything about the system and still make these claims. The profitable part of the system was the electrified stretch out west, the money-losers were all the redundant lines in the corn-belt of the Midwest (pic related). And yet at the end of the day the profitable portion was abandoned to maintain the Midwestern money-pits. Those derailments referenced were entirely due to the poor experimental use of locotrol distributed power, btw. The actual physical plant was fine up to that point. Just frustrated by your complete lack of argument backed by anything but conjecture about the failure of PC and RI that occurred around the same time, despite much different circumstances between all of them.
>>1234188Anyway I think I've proved my case sufficiently, so let's get back to posting awesome pics and videos. I'm sure even you must agree that it was a pretty neat operation they had going for awhile.
No hard feelings btw :^)
>>1234195>Not reallywall o text> it's extremely common for a chief executive to hop into the management of his previous employer's main rivalIt is actually>the 1970s is a decade notorious for its cheap petroleum fuelsIt was except for brief periods of OPEC embargoes.>Just frustrated by your complete lack of argumentIndustry contraction is a sound and legitimate argument. Conspiracies predicated upon hindsight and second-hand sources aren't.>>1234198>Anyway I think I've proved my case sufficientlyYou haven't, otherwise I'd be convinced you're right and I'm not
>>1234204Whatever. It's pretty obviously a waste of time arguing with a bad faith brainlet who doesn't even read the evidence provided. Why are you even in this thread if you are just gonna be a basic bitch corporate apologist? Not worth the wasted time and effort. You have refuted nothing and bring nothing of interest.
Electrified circus train, July 4, 1973
>>1234230A different circus train from 1970.
>>1234221Hmu when you can substantiate your conspiracy theory
>>1234221Those wooden poles, those rails very poorly seated in wooden sleepers and deep in soil without stones.I would guess it is a colourised picture from 19th cetury if it wasn't for the electric traction, really looks weirdly fascinating and super poor at the same time. Like it makes you realize why they abandoned it.
>>1234286>I would guess it is a colourised picture from 19th cetury if it wasn't for the electric traction, really looks weirdly fascinating and super poor at the same time. Like it makes you realize why they abandoned it.I get that, and one issue was that MILW management had been trying to merge into another line since the mid-1960s, (first UP and then RI if I remember correctly) and accordingly almost religiously deferred maintenance from that point onward. So it was clearly a corporate policy to defer maintenance, and this was true across the whole system.HOWEVER, in 1972 GE (and several times earlier) offered a very generous proposal to modernize the entire electrified sections AND construct 200 new miles of electrified rail, with very attractive financing. They were directly competing for locomotive sales with EMD (MILW was buying SD40s in large quantities) at the time so there is no reason to doubt the sincerity of the proposal. The fact that this proposal was rejected demonstrates that it wasn't simply mere market conditions that determined the fate of the electrified sections, corporate decisions at the top sealed the fate of the line, by design. There are multiple documents dealing with these studies here:http://www.milwaukeeroadarchives.com/Electrification/ElectrificationPage1.htmPic related has the fuller story. There were multiple points at which electrification could have been expanded and improved, and top management rejected them every time, despite the recommendations of superintendents and engineers on the ground. They had made their mind up to sink the system and nothing would change their mind about the ultimate outcome.
>>1234305>The fact that this proposal was rejected demonstrates that it wasn't simply mere market conditions that determined the fate of the electrified sections, corporate decisions at the top sealed the fate of the line, by design.Pure speculation. You just said maintenance was being deferred and the MILW was buying new diesels from EMD. That's why they ended electrification--to trim costs. No one else in the US was expanding their electrified lines and no new electrified lines had been constructed in many years on mainlines. Some had already been removed.
>>1234311>That's why they ended electrification--to trim costs.That makes zero sense. The whole downside of electrification is high capital costs. Electrification has much lower recurring costs than diesel on any line that sees a modicum of use.
>>1234342So it doesn't cost anything to maintain, you don't have to buy electricity for it, and you don't need to purchase locomotives for it that can't run anywhere else on the system?
Ah, it's good to see MILWposting back again
>>1234374Thanks fren, glad you enjoy. Haven't done this in years, been too busy, still am really, so nice to see some people from past days who appreciate the effort.
Never to be seen again: THREE Little Joes together on a high bridge traversing the Rockies. Only the first two are powered, however.
This dog knows what's up.
>During the early part of 1974, the rumors became official - that "The Milwaukee Road" would terminate all Electric operations. Countless railfans made impromptu pilgrimages covering many, many miles, all the while enduring the bleakness knowing that the shots they took would be irreplaceable. The winter solstice and monochromatic weather simply added to the melancholy. Spring finally did come, with better weather, but the prognosis was as grim as every second that ticked off a clock. Come the month of June, that clock struck twelve. >My vacation plans were prearranged for August... When we finally arrived at Deer Lodge, we felt like late-comers to a graveside service. The (Passenger) Joes (E20 and E21) were parked up near the roundhouse, along with the old GE steeple cab switchers; all was eerily quiet, the pans lowered. But where were the rest of their roster-mates? >A drive down to the opposite end of the yard revealed the gut-checking view that was brutally hard to take. To think we missed by mere months; oh, what might have been. We stood in silent reverence - of these unique brutes of tonnage mastery. A single photograph to bear witness, to recall what their decades of faithful service meant to the bottom line, let alone the people that were employed - specifically - to make sure they were in as good of shape as the day they left GE. Now, stripped of their tilted rectangular iconic heralds, one needed no further proof of the transient nature of everything on this planet. >Yes, 1974, and now, thirty-six years ago. Thank God for all who painstakingly persevered in documenting the halcyon days of what it all meant, and especially to one Richard Steinheimer. Through the collective of their imagery, the memories will never die.
>>1233925god, these guys make Penn Central look like it was well-managed. I mean at least the people at PC actually TRIED to run a railroad. The Milwaukee people were either inordinately stupid or actively malicious!I mean, their employees fucking knew they could do a better job and tried to buy it off them - and they STILL wouldn't do it.My guess it was a failed asset strip. Some bigwig probably bought into the "trains are obsolete" meme, and wanted to get at the land without actually keeping the railroad.
>>1234355>much lower recurring costs>but anon, electrification still costs moneyyeah, that's why I said much LOWER recurring costs
>>1233925>memeing a chronically money-hemorrhaging railway company this hardkys
>>1234430The cost of maintaining, buying power for, and buying locomotives for the electrification system is higher than simply not having an electric system. That's the decision executives faced, and it was a pretty easy one to make at a time when growth was stagnant.
>>1234429>The Milwaukee people were either inordinately stupid or actively malicious!A little bit of both, more of the latter. >My guess it was a failed asset strip. Some bigwig probably bought into the "trains are obsolete" meme, and wanted to get at the land without actually keeping the railroad.This seems to be the case based on an actual understanding of the system and its politics. Although, it was in the end a successful asset strip, since they eventually sold their trees fro nearly $200 after the final bankruptcy. Well, top management profited at least, thousands of employees lost their jobs and dozens of communities permanently lost their rail connection to the outside world. >After the BN merger, Milwaukee Road Lines West traffic more than doubled in three years, rising to four trains each way by October, 1973, even five when the grain rush was on. During this 3-year period, the revenue growth rate for the Milwaukee Road system exceeded that of Union Pacific and all other Class Is. Nonetheless, the overall financial situation of Milwaukee Road deteriorated because of declining traffic on its short-haul, fixed-cost Lines East network.
>>1234539>nearly $200 million*
You are so asshurt the MILW went out of business because it was the weakest link in the chain you're memeing excuses and hawking conspiracies
>>1234539>Although, it was in the end a successful asset stripNot really. I don't think they wanted to kill the railroad. I mean, I doubt they lost much sleep over it, but they would've liked to get some money from selling that too. Probably the reason they were constantly trying to merge.They didn't care about the railroad, and managed it like idiots, but it's uncharacteristic of businessmen to NOT try and sell as much stuff as they can. As far as asset strips go, I've seen far more "successful" ones.
It's kind of funny reading about the Milwaukee Road knowing about the Florida East Coast Railway. For those of you not familiar with the FEC, it basically had the polar opposite of the Milwaukee Road happen to it in the 70s. Place was run like shit back then. The profitable mainline was being neglected in favor of the money-losing branches, the unions were operating diesels with 5 people, and the track was deteriorating so badly that it would be uneconomical to repair in a few years.Guy named Ed Ball came in and actually realized the railroad was going to die for good in a few years if nothing changed, even though it had all the right ingredients for profitability. He did a lot of reforms, but the biggest fight came when he pissed off the unions.The unions wanted a pay raise. Normally, there's nothing wrong with this, but their business was dying around them. Ed Ball said they couldn't afford a raise. The unions went on strike. It was a fucking NASTY one. There were actual bombings. Ed Ball brought in scabs, and got rid of the 5 workers per train policy, reducing it to two. He installed concrete ties, automatic train control, and cab signals. He abandoned the money-losing passenger service, and the old branch lines. Took 10 years before the old FEC crew gave up striking and the sabotage and bombings stopped, but by the end, the FEC posted it's first profit in years. Today? Still exists, and is running an actual private passenger train service.How does this relate to the Milwaukee? Well the FEC people weren't railroad people either. They didn't much care for the industry, and they really were more interested in the real estate. Unlike the Milwaukee people, they weren't stupid, and actually turned their money-losing railway into a profitable asset. Thus proving how fucking incompetent the Milwaukee's management team was.
>>1234570>the unions were operating diesels with 5 people5 man crews were the norm at all railroads until 1985.
>>1234570Interesting, thanks for sharing. Milwaukee Road's criminal, corrupt, and incompetent management cannot be understated, but unlike FEC most of the people on the ground were true believers in electrification and fought their hardest to keep it running smoothly and turning a profit, despite all the setbacks and attempts to undermine it that management through at it. They knew their livelihoods were at stake and so fought as though their lives depended on it. They gave a valiant effort and deserve to be remembered for their sacrifices and struggles.>On the Rock Mountain Division, the Freight Motors (boxcabs) did not go down without a fight, but keeping them running was difficult. In 1972, the mood of Deer Lodge Shop foreman Ralph Hagemo was optimistic, but worried:>"They told me that they are going to have some new motors for me, if I can just keep these things running a few more years," he said. "If the electrics go, this shop will be closed, and we'll all be out of work. As long as I have anything to do with it, these things are going to run until they can't turn another wheel."Pic related, these things were built in 1916 and when the last ones stopped operating with the end of electrification in 1974, they had served continuously for 58 years. Even the diesel proponents had to admit they were superior runners, as one pro-diesel Tacoma shop foreman noted in 1970:>"They're worn out and they're slow, but I'll give them one thing, they can pull anything you can put behind them. You can't overload them, they just run slower. If you overload a diesel, you'll burn up the traction motors."
>>1234580>but unlike FEC most of the people on the ground were true believers in electrification and fought their hardest to keep it running smoothly and turning a profitRight, they are different situations. The FEC had employees that didn't realize their demands would kill the railroad. The Milwaukee employees knew exactly how shitty a situation they were in and were trying desperately to fix it.I find it kinda ironic in a sad way.
>>1234573Yeah, but the FEC was an early adopter. For better or for worse, pretty much all moden railroad labor-saving practices were done there first. They were the first Class I (they were the smallest Class I at the time, they're the largest Class II today) to go to two person train operation and abolish the 100 mile rule.
>>1234580>Milwaukee Road's criminal, corrupt management*unsubstantiated
Does anyone remember driving the Avery-Drexel route in TRS 2010? Damn that was comfy.
MILW depot at Beverly, WA, October 1971
>>1234053Fortunately the Hope valley line is getting electrified soon.It's the same with a lot of other closures that should never have happened, like the great central and varsity linesThe Great Central could've been a hugely important link and possibly the first UK High-Speed line>GCR starts up north between manchester/immingham>Build London extension>Infrastructure all built to very high standards, low gradients, room to expand>Be renowned for fast running>Profitable>Boundary change by BR to Midland region>Duplicates Midland Mainline>GCR/Midland -> LNER/LMS were rivals>Top brass itching for excuses to close it>Beeching cuts>Closed, land sold>Talk about HS2 branch to sheffield Utter madness. To do the same thing now would require billions and involve the destruction of thousands of homes, but the line was already ready to go.
>>1234570>The unions wanted a pay raise. Normally, there's nothing wrong with this, but their business was dying around them. Ed Ball said they couldn't afford a raise. The unions went on strike. It was a fucking NASTY one. There were actual bombings. Ed Ball brought in scabs, and got rid of the 5 workers per train policy, reducing it to two.This shit really pisses me off. I'm generally a believer in unions and think that overall they've done a lot more good than harm in the history of industry and employment, and doing shit like that just ruins the credibility of unions, gives ammo to the union-busters and their political allies, and fucks over every decent union worker in the country.
>>1237747Every time a union wants a wage increase it's met with resistance and disdain and is usually hard won. Even when business is good railroads fight every step of the way to avoid wage increases.
>>1237750Because the railroads want to increase their profit margins for shareholder dividends and/or reinvestment in the business
>>1233925>greatest electrified railroad operation in world historywhy do you burgers always exaggerate shit like it's the "hurr greatest in the world" and "durr bestest ever ever" jfcffs there's a shitload of other electrified railroad operations more impressive than that, for example the 9000+ km transsiberian railway.
>>1238356>9000+ kmWhy do Euros love to inflate numbers by using the metric system?
>>1238364You're fucking retarded
>>1238356Fuck the hyperbole, the MILW didn't have the longest electrified mainline in the world but it was the best chance at North American transcontinental electrified railroad.Less optimistically, it was the last hope for large scale electrified freight transport by rail in North America.
>>1238497The MILW was cool af, it just irks me when things in burgerland are randomly branded as the "greatest in the world".>t. autismo
>>1237750Most of the time, yeah. But in that particular instance it would've killed the company. I'm serious. We'd be talking about the FEC as yet another fallen flag, just like the Milwaukee Road.People still didn't realize the days where railroads could charge whatever they wanted and still rake in business were over. And they weren't coming back
>>1238585>But in that particular instance it would've killed the company.Good
>>1238613>would've put thousands of workers out of their jobs>would've lead to the destruction/abandonment of a perfectly good rail corridor>would've lead to more trucks on the highway>"good"
>>1238634>>1238634>would've put thousands of workers out of their jobsUNPRECEDENTED>would've lead to the destruction/abandonment of a perfectly good rail corridorMore likely another railroad would have bought it>would've lead to more trucks on the highwayDebatable>"good"I stand by my assertion
>>1238647>More likely another railroad would have bought itIn the 70s? No way. The big guys were barely solvent - they were shedding track like nobody's business - even good lines that could be profitable.The freight railroads are desperately trying to undo that nowdays. Unfortunately, it's a lot easier and cheaper to rip up tracks than to lay 'em down.
>>1238650Southeastern carriers weren't as bad off on the whole as midwestern and western carriers. The Southern certainly wasn't.>Nobody would've bought the only route into south Florida at a fire sale priceMaybe, but it seems more likely they would have. If the FEC had gone under and been ripped out for good it wouldn't be a big deal one way or the other.
>>1238667It's not the only route. There's the ex-seaboard route, which while not nearly as good of a routing as the FEC's, would be enough for the demand at the time.
Will be a great read
>>1238894Required reading for the entire human race.
>Utilitarian is an understatement. Even the windshield wiper was a bent wire operated by hand from the inside by the crewman sitting right behind it. Some got air wipers but not all. You can see the cab air conditioning was full on. Heat had one output which was on or off. Line voltage to the grids. Perhaps it was OK when line voltage was 3,000 v but it would cook you out when that was raised to 3300 and 3600 v. That steel seen below the engineer's window also formed the inside wall. Insulation was deemed by management as unnecessary which probably saved us all from asbestos injuries. >Trips on the Pelicans were fond memories.
>>1234074there are people who benefit from desecrated efficiency as it gives them more work to dofurther up the chain does not make much sense as I'm sure petroleum company's will have investment in other sectors of energy production (it would be stupid not to)
Just imagine a fleet of these on the MILW!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P48tGhpKXyESome tragic footage of the Pacific Extension in the late 1970s (after de-electrification). The track really deteriorated after the wires were pulled down, by design to get rid of the Pacific Extension entirely. The entire route from Washington to Montana was finally abandoned in 1980.
Please let your thread die instead of bumping it once every week or two
>>1251440Let it die, make a new one in a few months. Don't string it along
cool thread desu
>meming a never-profitable easiest trunk line this hardYou know, you could have used all of this wasted time on improving your social skills and establishing meaningful relationships with other people
>>1252595I'm glad it went out of business
>>1252595>easiest trunk linegod damn mother fucking autocorrect
>>1234080>>1234221post cab ride videos or GTFO
>>1238356Nobody itt cares about the LGBTQIA+ Bydlo Railgay, so GTFO
>>1234221post them videos /n/igger
Stop bumping your own thread faggot
>>1267439not OP but bumping anyway lol
i'm so glad this shit tier railroad's bankruptcy triggers 3 hyperautists
>>1267561You’re talking about the people crying over the thread existing, right?
>What has been the best corporate Darwin Award? A decision made by a company that basically killed the business?Is this accurate?
Even if the MILW had survived, by 2018 it'd be the same generic thing as everywhere else: ugly-looking Darth Vader-like wide cabs coming at you and caboose-less trains. I long for the days of varied road motive power, full crews, 25 to 30 Class I RR's, and freight cars sans that horrid grafiti
>>1269654But it would be under the glorious wires.
>>1233925> is one of the greatest crimes against humanity everthat would be your involvement in WW2 , the bombing of civilians and the post war concentration campsand of course the slaughter of 60 million europeens cos you allies wanted war and would not accept peacenow you can enjoy your chosen over lords and their greed
>>1269654Whats the deal with burgers sperging over cabooses? They were an ugly workaround similar to brake vans in other countries. They were an obsolete practice once universal pneumatic brakes and roller bearing became the norm.
>>1269657MILW wires would be dropped one way or another. They used an 3kV system which is, for all intents and purposes, obsolete as fuck. You just can't push enough juice through that to handle contemporary train weights.
>>1269659I wasn't alive during WW2, try again sweetie.
>>1269663i fucking LOVE science
This thread is now a celebration of the MILW's death. Good riddance to a crummy railroad that deserved to die.
>>1262584still waiting on those goddamn cab ride vids
lmfao this line had a worse profitability record than Alitalia and some sperg insists on memorializing itsage all day every day
I'm surprised about how much some people object to discussion about a defunct railroad.
>>1271898Because you keep bumping your own thread when the discussion is clearly over. It's just bad form
>>1271901But I didn't make any of the MILW threads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur2UfdgCho4GOOD OLD MILWAUKEE ROAD TAKE ME HOME THOSE GOOD OLD RAILROAD DAYSITS SOME THEN TO REMEMBER INJOY THE VIDEO MILWAUKEE ROAD RAILFANS MAKE COMMENTt. TRAINMANCW CLANCY
Then, paying tribute to the legacy of incompetence, the BN abandons the pacific extension in favor of the shit awful Scenic and Stampede lines. RIP.
>>1269663Except a UP crew literally got turned into human slime like a month ago because the glorious FRED wouldn't dump despite reporting comms.
>>1272587Maybe the Pacific Extension just wasn't that good
>>1272600Shortest route and lowest approach grade.
>>1272625Yet they went bankrupt kek
>>1272626Why are anti-MILW brainlets so retarded? It's like they don't know how to read or something.
>>1272587bn tried to buy the snoqualmie right of way but some environmentalists sued, then a landslide took out of one the bridges>>1272625shortest timetable until the late 60's by a few hours, not at all the lowest approach grade, quite the opposite, actually. marias pass to stevens pass never goes above 1%, BN needs no assist engines for the entire route, whereas milw had 4 passes that needed assist engines to pull trains. and these passes were not close, so you had to put extra crews and equipment into each division, and stop trains 4 times to couple/decouple the assist engines. UP's route wasn't much better, which is why BN sold that track to rail link. even now you occasionally see rail link engines stalled out north of townsend and homestake pass on the old UP line. snoqualmie was the only superior approach grade MILW had.
MILWAUKEE ROAD LIVES!
The Milwaukee Road Wikipedia article is really weak. You foamers need to step it up.
>>1278542The only unpaid labor I do for the MILW is on this board.
>>1278542>The Milwaukee Road Wikipedia article is really weakJust like its last annual reports
I wonder what the inside of the cabs were like on these.
>>1282712Imagine being so pathetic that you actively shitpost in a thread about an /n/-related topic you hate on a board filled with off-topic garbage. Yikes!
>>1282720You should thank me since I'm the only one replying to your thread anymore :)
>>1282790this >>1282720 isn't me (>>1282662)
>no milwaukee E60swhy go on?
>>1286254Just imagine if they got E44s too.
>>1289244Neat, reminds me of an interurban locomotive, like what you would see on the Sacramento Northern.
>>1282662this 28 wheeler looks like a hell lot of fun. but serious question : how do you know it is the front or the rear from this picture ??
>>1293702Why do you want to know that? Is it actually relevant?
>>1293702I have no idea how to tell.>>1293818Why are you so assblasted about this thread?
>>1264587best post in the entire thread
>>1294158lol trulyMore interesting than a crummy dead railroad
>>1297017Thanks for the bump.
>>1272259MILWAUKEE ROADTAKE ME HOMETO THE PLACE I BELONG
a long time ago, a poor country had no alternative but to buy locomotives available in the factory ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MHqUtyNF0s
to whatever anon is still bumping this:i posted in this thread over the summer when it had like 30 replies. please fucking let it die. the discussion is over.
>>1300590sorry, meant to say fall>>1300567point still stands
>>1300590It's not just me
>>1300590>the discussion is over.This is a fucking image board, dipshit. Last I checked there are way more Milwaukee Road images to be posted. Fuck off back to r*ddit if you don't like this ON-TOPIC thread. Why the fuck are you even here? Your opinion is irrelevant.
>>1300591São Paulo Brazil. Coincidence or not, as happened to Milwaukee in the place where this filming took place, there is no more train.
>>1300726wow. I was trying to be polite you ass. do you think I didn't post in here back in the day? because I did.I dont think there's a rule against endlessly bumping a thread, but it's pretty autistic to keep it up here when literally everyone but you lost interest in the topic months ago.
>>1303730There's at least 2 people that keep this bumped.I should know, I'm one of them.
>>1234594I don't have TS2010 but I've spend shit ton of hours on MSTS Rocky Mountain Division East. Available for free from Trainsim.com, although downloading activities is a pain in the back.
Another screenshot bump for the MILW. Here's an EF-5 with heavy coal load, and there's another EF-5 in the middle of the train as a helper. That's 12,000 HP of continuous power total. These things were beasts.
God this thread fucking sucks
>>1304691>>1306117Nice, would love to see a version of this route with modern graphics.
>>1233925>09/05/18Good to see you're still around.
>>1304691>>1306117man i never could get big MSTS routes to run properly, maybe I should try again now that OR is more stable than ever.
>>1313870What is OR?
>>1317457An excuse for you to samefag bump this thread
>>1257125Seattle had electrified mainline and destroyed it whyyyyyyyyyy
>>1234530The major cost it was facing was maintenance of the track itself, not locomotives or generation equipment. They scrapped out everything that was in good condition and then neglected what actually needed maintenance. A diesel still needs track to run on.
>>1319103It was still an easy decision for executives to make. The money that was spent on maintaining overhead wire and all other costs associated with it could be spent on the track itself after they scrapped it.
>>1319105 could have, but instead they enriched their executive bonuses
>>1319359Yeah your story needs a scapegoat
>>1317457Open Rails, an open-source MSTS clone>>1319103>>1319105>>1319359>>1319577Can we just behold the marvellous Rocky Mountain and Coast Divisions of the MILW and their electrics?
>>1319105The maintenance costs for the electrification was a lot less than the cost of repairing the tracks. Keeping the electrification would've saved the company over $60 million compared to their costs running diesels.
>>1319783If the answer was that straightforward, they would have kept them.
>>1319808It literally was straightforward, but the board of directors was actively working against the best interests of the road.
>>1319867Nope. That's already covered in this thread. The market wasn't big enough for all of the railroads in the US, the weakest ones didn't survive.
>>1319884and the directors actively made MILW weaker so it wouldn't survive.
>>1233925was it jews?
>>1322894That's your opinion
>>1322923which is backed up by facts.
>>1323476I mean, you're welcome to be wrong friend.
Why did they even electrify to begin with? Seems like it was a bad idea from the start
>>1327003As far as I know MILW owned a hydroelectric power plant and excess electricity was used to power their trains over the Rockies. Juicers could take on more freight than steam and were easier to handle. Great Northern did the same albeit for a short section in the Cascades.
>>1278689>The only unpaid labor I do<please keep it coming, much appreciated.
>>1300643It's me too.
>>1313833Bruce Black shot?
>>1272259What's your TO handle?
I am monitoring this thread.I always liked Rust Belt cities.
>>1332712Yes. >>1332720rob_l :^)
>>1332788Oh cool I've seen you post a few times. I've not really posted anything memorable, just mostly lurking with random questions here and there in Steam and the Nostalgia section. Texas_Rocket, btw. Maybe I'll drop one of /our/memes on there or see you drop one. All the old folks will be confused.
>>1332791For the record, I was being facetious, I am not the great rob_l. I'm just a lurker who uses the site to find high quality train images and read intelligent discussions by old timers. Would be great if he posted here though, he's a wealth of knowledge about the Milwaukee Road's electrics.
>>1332809>read intelligent discussions by old timersi.e. only people that agree with you
>>1332967Well yeah, you'd have to be pretty uninformed/retarded to not agree that a corporate conspiracy took down the Milwaukee Road's electrification.
>>1333036Your retarded actually
Seems like somebody needs a read >>1233927
>>1333062Your side lost. MILW was a garbage railroad
>>1332809Well, you are a member there, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to download the full size images off there.t. I do that to
>>1327003Not really.Loads of copper from Montana for the wires, electric motors actually have more pull at low speeds which is ideal for climbing hills. Going down hills they can turn the motors into generators whilst braking and put power back into the wires for other trains.All the electricity they needed was nearby. Plus electrics were more reliable in winter temperatures than steam (no water to freeze).
>>1333700Of course, TO's nostalgia board is the best around.
>>1333846Send me a DM, Senpai!
>>1234037Is that a pond? For what purpose?
>unions>workers taking over your business and holding it hostageFilth.