I think mecha is going the way of Wild West / Cowboy genre. As, an genre extinct due to audiences' change of mindset of obsession with gritty realism discrediting it. Any time you try to talk about mechas outside /m/ you're swarmed by people calling giant robots unrealistic and writing doctoral thesis about how tanks are better from a tactical and warfare standpoint (and therefore missing the point) and mainstream audiences consider robots to be "Power Rangers shit". What do you think?
Postmodernism is responsible for any backlash you see against fantastical settings or ideas
>>17769039>What do you think?The West are retards and their obsession with pseudo realism is even worst.
>>17769039Kids don't give a shit about realism. Realism isn't killing interest in /m/, the fact kids don't care about giant robot toys is killing it. If kids aren't buying those toys, there's no point making shows to advertise them and thus no-one is making shows to do so anymore. Kids care about YouTube, TikTok, Fortnite etc. these days, not giant robot cartoons. If someone wants a mecha property to succeed, they need to make a mecha video game that allows people to fuck around in various ways together and is popular on streaming services; not create a cartoon.
>>17769056I think that's what Bandai is trying to achieve with the Build series. Interactive, customizable merchandise that you can 3D scan and play with in a VR game would be the ultimate marketing powermove.
>>17769126If they are, then they might have the right idea but they have it way too early. VR is not at that point yet, so there's no point trying to advertise toys that use it as a gimmick. Even using it to lay the groundwork is kind of pointless, because no major hit needs that ground work. They'd be better off trying to make the Build Gunpla games (or whatever they're called) catch on, and become memetic with internet personalities or something. They'd need to do more than make them boring slogfests with shitty VN sections that newer ones are to my understanding to do that though.
Well start making robot shows with "realism" and grit and less cheese dick superhero in a robot nonsense. Also, reopen toy stores and have a toy line for the show. Because what's the point of Chinese toy commercials if there's no toys to sell.
>>17769126VR is a meme. A good AR game with robot toys would be kickass though.
>>17769161>Well start making robot shows with "realism" and grit and less cheese dick superhero in a robot nonsenseI'm going with a novel series.
>>17769056>Kids don't give a shit about realism.this, it's over-grown manchild that go on about realism.
>>17769161>hurr you can't have a mecha show without selling toys drrrrr
>>17769039You know, there actually has been a resurgence of interest in the mecha genre amongst western fans.
>manly men doing manly thingsdead>cute girls doing cute thingsalive"Muh Realism" doesn't matter. Non-mecha sci-fi is pretty much dead too, except if its an excuse to have cute girlsThe problem is how do you make mecha into cute girls. Infinite Stratos tried to adapt mecha musume aesthetics into a battle harem show and it kind of worked except nobody actually cared about the mecha side of it one little bit.. Darling in the Franxx tried to have cute girl robots who become the avatars of the girls who pilot them, but the whole doggy style cockpit thing and the character drama overpowered the limited mecha action that show had. Magical yuri mecha shows like Granblem and Regalia have been pretty mediocre but they somehow keep making them>just make the mechas themselves into cute android girls
>>17769968Look around the net, have you noticed increased discussion on the franchise? One thread on /a/ has mentioned that apparently the franchise has gained a surprising amount of popularity as if recently especially as it's the 40th anniversary. There's the increased demand of gunpla as well.
>>17769981>can't actually prove it and just goes by shit he read on /a/ + anecdotal evidenceCan you, at least, prove that bit about gunpla? You work for Bandai, I'm assuming.
>>17769056The real reason is that people don’t like technology anymore. There’s no space race, we don’t make better lives with chemicals, no one thinks that they will get a Maid robot and a self flying car. Optimism is dead. Technology is replacing humans or is evil.
>>17770014New gunpla factory being built in Japan due to an increase demand of the figures
>>17769968Idk man I just got into gunpla and gundam like 3 weeks ago and so have my friends
>>17769935I guess Symphogear would be the closest thing, but even that's more Mahou Shoujo with a little sprinkle of Mecha flavor and a lot of hot blood.Macross Delta tried to be a modern idol show and mecha at the same time but we all know how that ended up. Idolmaster Xenoglossia was a good cute girls and mecha anime, but it was much more drama and SoL based, and apparently it's take on the characters is completely different from any other incarnation of them, so im@s fans just sperged out over it
>>17769233>VR is a memeNonsense, if there a game that would make sense in VR, it would be a mecha one.>>17770014>Can you, at least, prove that bit about gunpla?Not him, but someone in another thread posted Bandai's sales figures and gunpla have been on the rise for a few years. Origin did well, too.>>17770017I believe you are right.
>>17769039The Gundam live action in the next few years will be the last stroke to kill it in the West.
>>17769039Westerns died out because they'd gone from simply being rife with cliches to deliberately glorifying the cliches.Then Blazing Saddles came along and called them out on it, and the western genre largely vanished from the screens until Back to the Future 3. Mecha has its cliches, but there's been a bifurcation of the genre into prime mecha, and meta mecha. Your meta mecha serieses are the referential ones, like Keroro, Nadesico, Build Fighters and the like.
The problem in mecha is that it's adopting the video game strategy of straight rebooting. Origin and Starblazers may be just the beginning on that front. I think you'll see SDF Macross and other classics being rebooted in the 2020's.
>>17769039>mainstream audiences consider robots to be "Power Rangers shit".they don't.
>>17769039An obsession with declaring anything that doesn't stick rigidly to the super robot formula doesn't mean that the genre is dying. And Shinkalion was hugely successful with a traditional super robot formula.
>>17771088Could you elaborate?
>>17771088Unless you're a Bayformers movie, that's exactly the case in America. >Giant robots have a much smaller impact on the 70s-80s crowd because stuff like Star Trek/Star Wars/Battlestar Galactica were much more prevalent in the western eye>Power Rangers being one of the few shows with robots that catches nation-wide attention in the US creates the notion that robot shows are silly kids stuff made to sell action figures>Western-made /m/ stuff that actually take the robot stuff seriously like Symbiotic Titan and Pacific Rim don't connect at all with the general public>The sole exception to this being the Transformers films, and even those are seen as just dumb popcorn flicks with little to no redeeming qualitiesMecha is easily the least popular genre to the general American anime fan as well>Practically zero big mecha influence in the US on TVs during the 70s compared to South America/Europe (The closest example being Johnny Sokko and His Flying Robot)>80s mecha is slightly more widespread in the US but only Transformers Voltron and Robotech catch on with the masses. >90s anime boom brings stuff like Evangelion and Macross Plus stateside but anime is still seen as a big niche>00s finally have Gundam come over to the US but once again it finds itself in the niche of anime fans and teenagers. >Anime boom hits its stride in the 10s with shows being widely available and subbed within hours of their airing in Japan, but mecha as a genre sees no big hits at all to the western public asides from DiTF and A:Z >Adding onto that, the majority of general anime fans try to find some excuse as to why they liked some mecha show other than saying they liked the robots (Evangelion, Code Geass, Gurren Lagann, SSSS.Gridman, etc) because they don't want to be seen watching "toy commercials"There will never be another /m/ anime that catches on with regular anime fans like TTGL did, because mainstream audiences avoid mecha like the plague.
>>17771270What the hell is wrong with toy commercials? Is it really offensive to market a show around toys, especially in mainstream areas?Goddamn, people avoid Mecha altogether due to its notoriously toy-etic qualities, which includes Power rangers.So here’s a thought: why doesn’t mainstream promote the classics?
>>17771875We recognize there's more to the genre than just "lol toy commercial" because we've dipped our toes farther into the pool than just the entry level stuff like Evangelion or Code Geass. Toy commercials aren't inherently bad, but they have the notion of being kids stuff thanks to shows like Power Rangers giving the idea that robots and other accessories are just there to push products without any actual plot progressing in said show. Your average fan won't watch Gundam or most pre-2000s mecha shows because the generalized notion that "Everything before Evangelion was a toy commercial", and why would they bother with a commercial when they could be watching a "serious" anime like Naruto or My Hero Academia? It's also why most Transformers shows don't bother trying to make a serious continuous plot in favor of episodic "Autobots rage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons" style plots.>why doesn’t mainstream promote the classics?America's classics are vastly different from Japan's classics. We give zero fucks about Toei super robots like Mazinger Z or Getter Robo since we didn't grow up with them, and Yamato is more remembered by its dub version Star Blazers than anything else. UC Gundams are somewhat appreciated, but primarily newer entries like 08th MS Team or The Origin get more push here among fans compared to 0079/Zeta outside of /m/ because they're "dated". Not to mention almost anything pre-90s is a very hard sell to your average American anime fan because they think anime looked like shit back then. To the western fan "classics" include Gundam Wing, Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, The Big O, and whatever they grew up with on Toonami. Anything older than those outside of the rare OVA/movie like Akira or Ghost In The Shell is promptly ignored.
>>17772591Well looks like I'm at the bottom of the iceberg due to the fact I've seen chargeman ken.
>>17772591>mars daybreakwow, i'm going lower and lower.
>>17772591Switch Aquarion Logos and the Nadesico movie and it should be good. Also Ginguiser REALLY doesn't deserve to be that far down, I'm pretty sur Mechander Robo is the infamous 70s one.
>>17772636Yep, ginguiser is in the so bad it's good zone but this is the real worst mecha show of the 70s, somehow actually got represented in a srw game.
>>17770017This right here. Fantasy or real-life or at most light science fiction will reign supreme as long as technology isn't making MASSIVE leaps and bounds like the space race was.
>>17769056>>17770017These.Also the fact that the gap between expensive toys (aka collectors' items) and kids' toys (actual fucking toys) is getting too wide.You either have super-detailed super-fragile piece-of-plastic-art exhibition item for $600 or trash can piece of shit without any articulation or aesthetics with nothing in between.I miss 90s and early 00s when you could just go into toy store and buy cool looking transforming robot for reasonable price.
>>17772640>so bad it's good zoneI thought this was based on obscurity
>>17771875They sort of have recently. Netflix made a pretty big deal of releasing Evangelion earlier this year and it seems like it was a pretty big hit for them. Unfortunately I think that makes it more difficult for pre-eva /m/ to catch on, since idiots will just see them and say eva is better.
>>17772591>MD Geist puts me at the bottom of the icebergNice.
>>17771115>Shinkalion was hugely successfulThis is a fact that gets somehow always ignored when talking about "the death of mecha". A traditional super robot show aimed at kids in the year of the lord 2018 that works.>>17772675>I thought this was based on obscurityNot really, it's actually quite bad, even compared to campy 70s shows.>>17772790>idiots will just see them and say eva is betterSure, but that would have happened regardless, and among the many who do, someone will discover and appreciate more series, we'll just have to stomach some newfags for a while.
>>17772591Tranzor Z's pretty obscure for USA localizations, like Captain Harlock and the Queen Of A Thousand Years or HG Dragonball levels of not-well-known
>>17772834Yeah that should probably be replaced with Star Blazers
>>17769039do all mecha shows have to be a toy commercial, can you not make a mecha show without the intent of selling toys?
>>17772855The hard part is getting funding. I think you'd end up with something like Armored Core, slightly more uniform designs instead of a main "hero" robot.
>>17769935Bubblegum Crisis made it work
will smith already killed both genres in the 90s
>>17772855>>17772861Regardless, I don't see the problem of them being "toy commercials". I mean, worst case scenario they have limitations for what it concerns the mecha design (yeah, I know, it's nothing to scoff about, but still).I don't see where the problem is in making a good mecha anime and at the same time selling toys from its mecha.I see stuff like mecha musume, isekai, waifu pandering and haremshit as much more harmful in general, as they affect the whole series.
>>17772994Agreed, the only real issue with toy commercial is what's more prevalent in kamen rider, you have these throwaway gimmicks and outright ridiculous power ups that are trying to move more plastic, that's all. Zero-One's base form looks fantastic but it will be forgotten for pink and blue plastic slapped all over it.
>>17769039Are you a time traveler from the year 2009? People love your giant robutts. Admittedly, they usually only think of Transformers or Build Fighters, you can't go to many book stores or hobby shops without seeing rows of gunpla, but you have to take your wins where you can get them.
>>17772591Anyone here still remember project e.n.i.s.?
>>17772855Star Driver, Franxx, Aldnoah 0, Argevollen, Eureka 7, Captain Earth, VVV, and Fafner, to name a few, were mainly straight-shot series promoting something other than a toy line, and in some cases, an entirely experimental idea to see if it caught on. True, they eventually got things like figures, some got models, and a bunch of other non-toy merch, but that's rather normal.Gundam on the other hand, is still considered more of a toy show than others because they still have the outdated mindset of trying to predominantly push model sales. They didn't care that fans were wild about character figs, drama discs, OSTs, and the like. If the Gunpla weren't selling, it was a failure. If Bandai had just adopted the Disney mindset that as long as they were pushing merch of any kind related to a series, it was successful, then Gundam could have probably taken a stronger hold in the 90s with shirts, pens, lunchboxes, and action figures. It also doesn't help that Bandai believed in artificial rarity; which is what led to the death of G Gundam and Gundam in the States in general when the only thing stocking shelves were a bunch of unwanted anal bead Gundams and a Gundam with a bull head for a body. Same for the few 0080 and 0083 merch that stocked the shelves following.The issue comes down to the story and mindset of the viewers; and making mecha work within that. Some of the original ideas just threw in mechs as flavoring to the rest of the experimental setting soup. But given that the story is still driven mainly by the character interactions, rather than the mecha itself, the mecha side falls out of interest and just becomes a minor thing. In the West, mecha as the main driving force is colored by Transformers, Terminator, and Superhero stories involving usually evil robotic beings (Ultron, the Sentinels, and so forth). It also doesn't help that the West grew up more on believing in humanoids (superheroes) rather than machines.
>>17773041does this kind of show work well with mecha fans, shows comes first then the toys later?
Mecha was always bizarre. It's like attaching a name to "anime where the hero drives a red car". Imagine it: we'd have dozens of threads of "Is it /rc/? The car is mostly black, but it has red stripes" and "What's your favorite shade of red for the red car?". There would be one series with a twist that the cars are just elaborate cardboard covers on motorcycles, and people would call it a deconstruction. And, on the industry side, genuinely good storytellers would shoehorn red cars into action, interpersonal dramas, and comedies, because it would allow them to get more funding.Of course, I exaggerate. The point I'm trying to make is that OP's lament is overly narrow. The question to be asking is not "Why is this specific setting element dying," it's "Is it mutating into anything worth a damn?" Where are the shows focusing on power armor, cyborgs, spaceflight, aliens, or just science fiction in general?
>>17769039Wild West had only so much to show, atleast mecha could be set in the past, present and future with wildly different themes, tones, and sometimes designs.I don't think /m/echa is going permanently away, we still get shows that are good but a lot of you fags never like the newer shit (especially gundam only's). I don't care if western audiences liked them or not, it's about Japanese appeal.Ex: I know a lot of people detest Gridman but it's getting a lot of supplemental material because the nips like it even though western perception was warm but not as great as DitF when it was airing. Nippon is all that matters for mecha shows, unless it's gets Dragon ball or Naruto levels which is highly unlikely
>>17773064It depends on the story and animation quality. If the story and animation don't catch sufficient interest, nothing else will save it.Fafner notably, pushed an interesting story backed by decent animation, and never really sold anything beyond DVDs, OSTs, and maybe a few minor bits of merchandise. Ended up becoming an unexpected sleeper hit over time. Heck, it wasn't even expected to ever have a toy/model line, which was part of the reason the mecha designer got to go wild with the designs.Similarly, Eureka 7 and TTGL weren't focused on pushing toys/kits either, and mainly thrived off the interest they gained from the animation or plot, and sold plenty of DVDs and later, merchandise.
>>17773075People hated us enough to force us off the other boards, so I guess it's justified as a genre.
>>17773041>In the West, mecha as the main driving force is colored by Transformers, Terminator, and Superhero stories involving usually evil robotic beings (Ultron, the Sentinels, and so forth). It also doesn't help that the West grew up more on believing in humanoids (superheroes) rather than machines.You are talking about North America. South America, Europe and Souteast Asia all grew up with Japanese mecha and are used to them. Still, the US is undoubtedly an important market, but not the only one, nor the biggest outside of Japan.
>>17772591Here is my ranking. Minor notes: I just started Basquash, I didn't see Sasuraiger so that's why J9 has a question mark (yes I have seen all of Baxingar), and Yamato 2199 and Daiohja are on my to watch list.
>>17772591What the fuck happened to Jinraiger, did it ever release? I looked it up recently and it was supposed to come out a few years back but I can't fibd any info on it.
I'm still trying to figure out why the average anime fan thinks toy commercial=bad but haremshit based on a porn game=good
>>17774456Because normies are fucking dumb.
>>17774456They equate anything that shows boobs and butt as "maturity".
Good, that means that there are less people into my hobby
>>17775029I thought it was "grit n gritty military realism"?
>>17769039Try not being EOP.
>>17776284Oh, that's a part of it, oh yes.
>>17776284To the general western audience that doesn't watch weebshit yeahTo weebs all you need is gratuitous blood and/or dismemberment + tits
>>17772591These placements are all messed up. Gunbister is way too low, Gargantia is way too high, Fucking Gigantor is above regular Transformers? You're having a laugh, mate
I just think the genre is just in a down-slope right now. Though it is not helped by the weird stigmas that surround it that don't make sense.
>>17771875people are insecure, therefore let the eyes of the masses dictate what they watch. instead of watching lol cool robot shows because you like big metal men punching the shit out of eachother you watch what people around you perceive as "normal" (transformers n shit).>>17771270>the majority of general anime fans try to find some excuse as to why they liked some mecha show other than saying they liked the robotspretty much this, /m/ericans are insecure as fuck
>>17774456Why both shove both together?
>>17772591>Kihei Senki Legacieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb9Ltty9qT4people use the PS2 game insult a lot for cgi shows but if I didn't know I'd think this actually is a trailer for a PS2 game.
>>17774456were not kids
Good, let the normalfags be weeded out. Mechs will remain niche, appreciated by people who scoff at realism needing to be in every game.
We live in a timeline where the highest rated /m/ show from this decade is pic related, are there people who really think mecha isn't dead in the west?
>>17786268That's MAl, the rates on that site are overexaggerated
>>17786121Nah...what goes around comes around and Mecha is not immune.