[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/lit/ - Literature


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.



File: alanwatts.jpg (78 KB, 680x791)
78 KB
78 KB JPG
>>
If you like his lecture snippets on YouTube, you’d like a book or two of his
>>
>>13123610
if you want feel-good 'spirituality' he's perfect
>>
>>13123643
Don't listen to this guy. Yes, normies use Alan Watts' talks in that way but he actually did have insight into the essence of Eastern spirituality. He wasn't an erudite but that's a good thing. He's good as an easy to digest introduction before moving on to primary sources.
>>
>>13123643
Have you ever read anything about Easterm philosophy?
>>
My favorite is Theologia Mystica: Being the Treatise of Saint Dionysius, Pseudo-Areopagite, on Mystical Theology
>>
He's a worthless practitioner and an even worse academic. He's outright wrong about many things, and mostly useless.
Read the primary sources instead.
>>
if you like someone talking about nothingness all the time and how we should strive to achieve said nothingness. Zen is a retarded doctrine for people who have to cope with a shitty life.
Just look into the history of zen...
"we have to start sitting again and doing nothing but just sit, because thats what the buddha did"
zen is the full abandonment of logos, even negating the principle of logos and trying to be anti logos at times. There is no point in solving koans for example and that is the point i should realize?? Waste of time.
>>
>>13126149
>muh purpose in life

Lmao, just chill man
>>
>>13125079
This shit is da bomb man ! Love that dude
>>
>>13126157
zazen is literally the worst form of meditation, zen practitioners do not even deny that. of all the ways of attaining the goal in buddhism (which should be nirvāṇa) zen has the least tools and is the hardest path to walk.
Only edgelords and pseuds would chose that path.
"Bodhi is not a tree;
There is no shining mirror.
Since All begins with Nothing
Where can dust collect?"

Just read it, all begins with nothing.. makes no fucking sense. Therefore zen has to abandon reason to not be eternally btfo'd
>>
File: 220px-RinzaiGigen.jpg (26 KB, 220x320)
26 KB
26 KB JPG
>>13126149
>>13126157
>>13126338
reminder that Rinzai = cool
Soto = trash
>>
>>13126338
Sunyata bro. Its a pseud filter, and you just got filtered!
>>
>>13123610
Hilariously underrated

At this point, if someone talks shit as Alan Watts I take it as a red flag of them not actually knowing their shit. I think people can't think broadly enough to wrap their heads around the achievement of what he's able to articulate.
>>
>>13126149
I mean, yeah. Better than heroin.
>>
>>13127404
practicing buddhism and trying to attain buddhahood when the buddha explictly states that there will be only one buddha at a time and the next buddha will come when the dhamma is completly ceased.

Buddha teaches how to become an aharant -> guys fuck that lets all try to become buddhas so we can liberate all human beings.

Have you even studied anything in buddhism that has not been syncretized until it makes no sense anymore? If you would have studied the topic with some depth you would see the utter nonsense that mahayana is.
>>
>>13127404
oh sorry, that would actually mean that you have to look for contradictions in the doctrine. Where the mahayana contradicts the teachings of the buddha gotama. But that is not sought after in Zen, because muh ego identification and that will give just rise to attachment via thinking.
Blablabla cessation of the mind will result in instant, spontaneous satori, and everything that we have to do for this is to sit and just sit without doing anything to become aware of sunyata? even if the buddha taught a whole different path for attaing nibbana where you are encouraged to actively seek and destroy the things that hinder you from attaing the cessation of suffering.

Sunyata is actually a sperged out concept of anatta which is already a corruption of the orignal doctrine. Why is there nirvana when everything boils down to sunyata? Why would we try to obtain nirvana if nirvana if the concept of sunyata would actually hold true.

If you want water, why do you go to the dirty bucket instead of the well, where the bucket took its water from?
>>
>>13127965
>Sunyata is actually a sperged out concept of anatta which is already a corruption of the orignal doctrine
Sunnyata connects perfectly with dependent origination and is actually found in the suttas of the PC (although those suttas tend to be glossed over more than they should)
Are you the Cambodian Theravadin from the other thread?
I would suggest avoiding Alan Watts threads generally, the people in these threads aren't Buddhists, don't claim to be Buddhists, and typically aren't looking to be Buddhists
>>
>>13127965
>Why is there nirvana when everything boils down to sunyata? Why would we try to obtain nirvana if nirvana if the concept of sunyata would actually hold true.
Dependent on name (feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention) is form, dependent on form is name.
Neither exists inherently with essence - hence the doctrine of emptiness.
Ideas of metaphysical/absolute inherent existence as well as conception of total non-existence are both conceptual, fabricated, dependent on delusion, so the Buddha teaches freedom from both extremes via the Middle Way. Nirvana is unarisen, unprepared, unconditioned, so conditioned/prepared/fabricated extreme conceptions of existence vs non-existence, substance vs no substance cannot be applied to it. The conception of Nirvana is empty because it's a conception and not actual Nirvana.
You might say "the doctrine of emptiness is also conceptual" and you'd be right, which is why the emptiness of emptiness must be comprehended as well.
Nirvana is the stilling of preparations, the cooling of the fires of becoming, thus there is no more idea of existence or non-existence, eternalism, permanence....etc.
>>
>>13127965
>Sunyata is actually a sperged out concept of anatta which is already a corruption of the orignal doctrine.

At Sāvatthī.

“Once upon a time, mendicants, the Dasārahas had a clay drum called the Commander. Each time the Commander split they repaired it by inserting another peg. But there came a time when the clay drum Commander’s original wooden rim disappeared and only a mass of pegs remained. In the same way, in a future time there will be mendicants who won’t want to listen when discourses spoken by the Realized One—deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness—are being recited. They won’t pay attention or apply their minds to understand them, nor will they think those teachings are worth learning and memorizing.

But when discourses composed by poets—poetry, with fancy words and phrases, composed by outsiders or spoken by disciples—are being recited they will want to listen. They’ll pay attention and apply their minds to understand them, and they’ll think those teachings are worth learning and memorizing. And that is how the discourses spoken by the Realized One—deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness—will disappear. So you should train like this: ‘When discourses spoken by the Realized One—deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness—are being recited we will want to listen. We will pay attention and apply our minds to understand them, and we will think those teachings are worth learning and memorizing.’ That’s how you should train.”
- SN 20.7

>in a future time there will be mendicants who won’t want to listen when discourses spoken by the Realized One—deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness—are being recited. They won’t pay attention or apply their minds to understand them, nor will they think those teachings are worth learning and memorizing.
...
>And that is how the discourses spoken by the Realized One—deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness—will disappear.
The Buddha himself attributed the neglect of the discourses on emptiness as a reason for the decline of the Dhamma.
>>
>>13123610
No, he was a dilettante. If you want to learn about a particular religion, read a book by a teacher in the tradition or an academic who studies it.
>>
>>13127965
Because the world is void of the self, Ānanda,
or of what belongs to the self,
therefore is it said
'Void is the world.'
- SN 4 35.85
http://obo.genaud.net/dhamma-vinaya/pts/sn/04_salv/sn04.35.085.wood.pts.htm#p1
>>
>>13127965
>>13128359
By the eye" friends, one has a perception of the world and a
conceit of the world, by the ear …………. by the nose …………. by the
tongue…….. by the body ………… by the mind, friends, one has a
perception of the world and a conceit of the world . That friend by
which one has a perception of the world and a conceit of the world,
that in this discipline of the noble ones, is called ' the world'.
(S iv 95)


“It is in this very fathom- long physical frame with its
perceptions and mind, that, I declare lies the world, the
arising of the world, the cessation of the world, and the path
leading to the cessation of the world”
- Rohitassa Sutta , S.I.61

Because name and form are not-self, empty of self, empty of essence, it follows that the world too is not-self, empty of essence.
>>
>>13127866
>if you would study such and such
>then you would have the same opinion as me!


>>13127965
I dont think you know what youre talkimg about. Have you heard, "the dao that can be named is not the everlasting dao"?
Its the same reasoning here. And you do know that Nagarjuna thought that the other schools wete corrupting the doctrine. He went straight to the original texts and derived sunyata from anatman and dependent origination. If you ever went deel enough, you would know thay paradoxes are at the heart of our reality.
>>
>>13127965
>cessation of the mind
Taught in Theravada, assuming that's what you're coming from. Look up nirodha samapati as well as the Gotrabhu-ñana
>everything that we have to do for this is to sit and just sit without doing anything to become aware of sunyata
That seems like some degree of Zen practice as taught in the Soto school. I'm pretty certain that sunnyata as taught in the PC and by Nagarjuna is realized just as any insight is realized - through practice of the Eightfold Path, and especially Satipatthana
>>
So where should I start with him?
>>
>>13127866
>practicing buddhism and trying to attain buddhahood when the buddha explictly states that there will be only one buddha at a time and the next buddha will come when the dhamma is completly ceased.
This is fair if you take the Pali Canon as authoritative. I certainly do, but others don't.
This however doesn't make Sunnyata baloney. Early Mahayana (specifically early Madhyamaka with Nagarjuna) was the real deal and strictly adhered to the suttas.
I hope that the more absurd and (if we are comparing to the Pali Canon) heretical teachings of Mahayana don't deter you from the wisdom of early Madhyamaka. Nagarjuna (in the works that are definitely attributed to him like the MMK) expertly illuminates the teachings of the Pali Canon Buddha like few others ever have.
>>
>>13126447
Both are complete trash and not Zen.
Dogen was a fraud and both Soto and Rinzai utilize his teachings.
>>
>>13123610
how much vodka did this man drink again
>>
>>13128913
yes it just makes it redundant
>>13128017
no am not that guy. its 5+ years since i studied buddhism, but for sure zen is not the true doctrine anymore. Easily observable on how the monks live for example

>>13128223
you actually prove my point, zen is inlated with superstitious meaning. there are suttas where the buddha talks about annatta and the nature of this world, why would nagarjuna make his own versions of these things? this is clearly a try to either make hte dhamma better or to corrupt it. both are false because the buddha gave the perfect version of the dhamma

How does it make sense that the buddha taught aharanthood and the mahayanas preach that everyone should become a bodhisatva?
>>
>>13129720
>zen is inlated with superstitious meaning. there are suttas where the buddha talks about annatta and the nature of this world, why would nagarjuna make his own versions of these things? this is clearly a try to either make hte dhamma better or to corrupt it. both are false because the buddha gave the perfect version of the dhamma
Nagarjuna was not Zen.
Nagarjuna taught dependent origination and emptiness because those teachings were being overlooked during his time by other Buddhists, who were adopting eternalistic and nihilistic metaphysical views. They were coming up with teachings contradictory to what the Buddha taught, so Nagarjuna taught a return to the doctrines of the Pali Canon to correct everyone else's heretical views. He did not make his own version of Dhamma.
As far as I know, Nagarjuna also did not (in the works definitely attributed to him) teach of the Bodhisattva path. The Bodhisattva ideal came after him.



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.