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http://tass.com/defense/1058494

The Russian leader underlined that the Russian defense industry had not done anything like that in terms of the scale and on the new platform in 40 years. He expressed hope that the updated plans would be fulfilled. "In the nearest future we will sign a package contract to supply 76 such jets equipped with modern weapons of destruction and provided with the necessary land infrastructure," Putin pointed out.

B-But this board, F-16.net and the media said the program was cancelled.

Everyone will blame its Putin's fault for watching the aircraft yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XhrsA8CC-g
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>>41484349
>He expressed hope that the updated plans would be fulfilled.
>He expressed hope
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>>41484374


"The 2028 arms program stipulated the purchase of 16 such jets," Putin recalled. According to him, having assessed the situation, Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu reported that manufacturers reduced prices for both the aircraft and the equipment by 20%, which provided the opportunity to purchase more of these jets. "We have agreed to purchase 76 such fighters without the increase in prices in the same period of time," Putin said.
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>>41484349
It's true we have fun at Russia's expense here, but none of us really are staking our esteem on whether Russia can produce the Su-57. For my part I'm just amused by the trouble they're having. If they do manage to build 76, more power to them. Good luck Rooskis.

Honestly, I don't see how 76 is supposed to be some kind of Earth-shattering number here :^/
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>>41484349
So Russia can't even produce the same amount of 5th gen planes in a decade that the US buys in a year. That's fucking pathetic.
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>>41484418
Maybe India will be interested again.
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>>41484441
Turkey's a more likely buyer at this point. Considering Russia can't seem to afford much of anything on their own at the moment, some sort of international partnership will be vital if they want to produce the thing in meaningful numbers before the US is flying its F-22 successor.
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>>41484491
>before the US is flying its F-22 successor.

or before the mig-41s come out.
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>>41484441
Your going to be shitposting this on every thread like you did in the patch thread are you? >>41474811
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>>41484418
As a ruskie myself here I can attest that most of the folks I know don't really have many hopes up for the 57 in general, tho to be fair it's not as bad as with the AK12. But hey, maybe something good will come out of this.
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>>41484507
>MiG-41
Holy crap, I just read the Wikipedia article on that thing. That's hilarious.

>capable of Mach 4–4.3, equipped with an anti-missile laser, and claimed would be able to operate at very high altitudes and even in near space

This is coming from a nation that has yet to prove it can produce an F-22 equivalent.

Also
>It was speculated that it could enter service by the mid-2020s or 2030s
kek
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>>41484441
Maybe, honestly, I think as the US paradigm shifts from Europe to Asia, India will be looking towards the USA for its armaments. The Americans have a large MIC and catalog of designs to purchase. Planes like the F-16 are both (relatively) inexpensive and modern, they seem pretty ideal for the Indian Air Force. Just look at all the variants Middle-Eastern countries buy. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a bunch of F-16 MKIs flying around or something in the next 10 years.
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>>41484606
I mean, look at the F-21 proposal. American manufacturers seem willing to give India fairly advanced tech transfers if they're willing to play ball. Considering the US is a lot more likely to support the Indians against the Chinese than the Russians would be, India is likely to fall into the US sphere of influence over the course of a few decades.
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>>41484441
doubtful. unless they offer to open a production line in india i dont think they will.
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>>41484349
>16 purchased
>76 hoped for
>hundreds originally promised
good god this things antics are hilarious.
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>>41484716
Who knows, if things keep going the way they have, Russia might actually start buying Chinese like the memes keep suggesting.
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>>41484529
I think the Russian Government is suffering from a lack of focus. Probably trickles into everything Moscow does. I don't see what the Russian military is meant to do exactly? It kind of just exists to try and counter the Americans so they wind up spending tons of money on IADs and other fly-swatters and giving them to foreign governments. That's fine and all but then what does it need a VLO plane for. Shooting down AWACS and interception my guess, but if you can't do it on the scale or with the same level of tech as the US then why not try another alternative. I feel like the Russians are the Yin to America's Yang, but they don't really embrace the asymmetry. Russia should focus on IADs and Armor in a conventional war. The defense has been Russia's greatest strength. It can quickly overrun the Baltics and then be a pain in the ass to deentrench. NATO with the US could do it. But will NATO have the US in the next 10 years? Maybe not.
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>>41484349
>76 SU-57s
Yeah, we'll see. Just like they promised 2,000 T-14s by 2025 and that obviously isn't happening.
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>>41484736
given the performance of the flying TORtanic i wouldnt be surprised.
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>>41484716
Iraq is already interested in buying an S-400. Them profits will help.
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>>41484441
>your country is so booty blasted they made a patch to commemorate something that didn't even happen
lmao. I'm glad they're getting some Su-57's, it'll make it easier to sell the PCA to congress in the late 2020s.
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>>41484738
Modern SEAD techniques really seem to call into question the effectiveness of SAM systems. They're obviously a danger to aircraft, but a fighter plane is a much more useful thing to spend money on than a ground-based anti air missile.
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>>41484753
honestly? good. the more this thing continues its existence the more hilarity it generates.
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>>41484754
>PCA to congress in the late 2020s
The PCA is happening way sooner than that. Something like 2026 for prototypes.
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>>41484659
I'd imagine it really would only take one decade because China's military is growing exponentially, the Indians are probably going to want get things going more quickly.

p.s. I know the Chinese economy is slowing and things are uncertain for them, but that's all the more reason to expect Chinese foreign policy to get more belligerent. It's better to make moves in a position of strength rather than from a place of weakness.
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Meanwhile.
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>>41484766
IOC is expected to be mid-30's
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>>41484766
What's the PCA?
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>>41484763
I've seen the threads on here, I've seen the arguments. I'm merely suggesting that in a no-US involvement Baltic scenario, perhaps sometime in the 2020s-2030s they might be a significant obstacle for a theoretical European coalition. Personally, think and EU-coalition would not exist in the future and it would be enough to make EU countries unwilling to get involved. Not like I have any clue why Russia still cares about the Baltics though? Just a scenario I kind of imagined. Personally, I think Russia's focus in IADs is just there way of selling "Empire Repellent" to third world dictatorships a way of swatting down that pesky USAF. Of course they don't tell them that the USAF is the Africanized-killer Hornet of Air Forces and IADs just make them angrier. But I guess up until that point it's peace of mind. lol
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>>41484804
They may actually be moving that up significantly
>>41484822
Penetrating Counter-Air. Supposed to be a sixth-generation fighter, but may end up being several aircraft.
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>>41484852
>May be moving that up
Source? I kind of doubt that since the mid 2030's IOC is already kind of ambitious.
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>>41484770
Agreed. I have to imagine China is eventually going to become more aggressive. If nothing else, the US simply won't allow China to secure the degree of influence they want over East Asia without a fight.
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>>41484876
From an Aviation Week article
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>>41484374
>Putin expresses hope
>op and shills express cope
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>>41484926
>am i uguu~~~~~
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>>41484349
lmfao, went from promise of 2000 aircraft by 2020 to HOPE of 76 by 2028. The Armata is also suffering the same fate.
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>>41484926
cope because of the delusions of a crazed manlet living in the past?
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>>41484349
>Only 76 by the time it's already obsolete
yikes
>>
76 modern fighters is like what you'd expect a country like Belgium to have. Most NATO countries will have more stealth fighters individually than Russia. How is Russia going to manage? Aren't they str0nk superpower?
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>>41484949
>The Armata is also suffering the same fate.
Now Armatar only needs to follow.
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>>41484349
If it's that reflective of light, why wouldn't it refl3ct radar?
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>>41484993
>Aren't they str0nk superpower?
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/05/15/secaf-wilson-mattis-departure-made-it-easier-me-resign.html#.XNx-We6RVMw.twitter
>Q: Are Russia and China making these advancements faster than the U.S. is, and how concerning is that?

>A: Russia is a declining petropower armed with nuclear weapons and a threat to its neighbors. China is innovating really quickly, and stealing things too. The threat we worry about most long-term is China.
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>>41484979

Not that obsolete with the keep crashing F-35s. Luckily their industry will produce photonic circuits.
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>>41484993
76 times 6 for each F-35 air defenses can do the rest.
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>>41485204
>this is what passes for english in russia
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>>41484887
The ol' Thucydides trap. I just think the US never wants to deal with a near-peer power again. The rest of Asia will probably side with the Americans if I had to guess it. To be honest I really hate to be biased in these things. I'm partial to be sure, America is my home, no matter detached I pretend to be I'm not transcendent of world affairs, America loses out I lose out. Still, I try to maintain a level of detachment and consider the factions as equal. But even so China scares me. Of all the places I have read about and learned about, what China is becoming is a nightmare. Nearly every dystopic imagining of the past 50 years made real in one country. It seems like those ministry of truth style camps in XinXiang are just beta-tests for a nationwide program of industrialized indoctrination camps. The CCP really is "the party" from 1984 and as human beings maybe we should actually, I don't know, want to stop them. Maybe I'm being melodramatic but I really don't know. I do know that shit isn't getting better over here either.
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>>41485204
>keep crashing F-35s
cope
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>>41485000
200 T-14s

but but there are only suppose to be 10. When will those board be correct on T-14 and su-57 armatas everyone is ass blasted that there will be more than 12 su-57s.
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>>41485220
>6 for each F-35
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>>41485230
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a27472073/f-35-birds/
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>>41485236
I stand corrected
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>>41485204
>their industry will produce photonic circuits
Russia can't even develop a domestic semiconductor industry.
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>>41485266
>1 plane shot down over thousands of successful sorties
>this somehow "proves" your "point"
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>>41485248
>bird strikes are proof a specific airframe is bad
Lay off the krokodil
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>>41485235
>but but there are only suppose to be 10
Nope.
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>>41485282
>>1 plane shot down over thousands of successful sorties>this somehow "proves" your "point"

With an additional F-117 damaged. Sad that Russians put more emphasis in stealth using their hypersonic missiles internally.
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>>41485229
One of the interesting aspects of Thucydides' Trap is the tendency for the smaller client states of the 2 great powers to drag them into a war that neither power wanted on their own. As China and the US begin to solidify which states will partner with which, the potential for a small country to gain from a war between the US and China only grows.
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>>41485282
It is called coping, vatniks are pretty advanced with that, comes with the constant practise.
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>>41485299
that's what /k/tards believe the uhhh its a dead program, now everyone is pissy that they are wrong because the media said so.
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>>41485305
So the claimed 2 other F-117 shot downs and B-2 shot down was bullshit?
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>>41484738
>armor

Parking your tanks on their airbases worked before the precision weapon revolution. It doesn't anymore.

Russia knows they lost the air power race. IADS are the only option they have; and while they aren't ideal and have wartime troubles, they're a cost effective deterrent.
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>>41485317
Nope, that is just what people say to make fun of people like you who are way worse when it comes to such predictions.
>2000 Armata by 2020
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>>41485305
Stealth is a scam that's why they stuck it externally. They can keep mass producing these aircrafts like idiots until they realize photonics lower the noise floor by -20 decibels and burn through jammers wont work on Su-57s while the SU-57s could further use ROFAR to suppress the F-35s radar significantly.

Even 4th gen aircrafts with this shit can get lucky with F-35s.
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>>41485348
COPE
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>>41485348
big if true
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>>41485341
https://qr.ae/TWNKnW Through in as much stealth aircrafts you want but ground radars among other sources can assist their 4th gen aircrafts to shoot down 5th gens with data information sharing. I don't know whats the point for F-35 mass production other than sandniggers.
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>>41485357
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>>41485384
>Linking to a quora page to back up your shitty reply
Embarrassing.
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>>41485348
If stealth magically became worthless, the F35 would remain a more powerful, agile, and ergonomically developed aircraft than it's predecessors, with vastly superior data fusion and networking.
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>>41485341
>IADS are the only option they have
This. If they had the money and technical talent, they'd be procuring F-22 equivalents as fast as they could roll out of the factory. Unfortunately for Russia, they have neither, and as a result, can only attempt to rely on ground-based missiles as a counter to American air supremacy.
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>>41485395
You can always tell when memes are done by russians, they always look so crude.
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>>41485395
>poor man's f-22
>it's russian
>engines suck
>usa number 1
I don't understand, these are all true statements.
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>>41485384
>we can use OTH to vector interceptors

This is the aerial equivalent of saying ATGMs make tanks obsolete.
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>>41485404
No, just that air power is pointless
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>>41485430
Does it even has its final engines?
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>>41485436
Is this supposed to be a rebuttal? Because it only makes you look (even more) retarded.
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>>41485465
you got nothing to propose? Tell what is the point of having a huge air force if vatniks are still fucking burgers over in geopolitics?
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>>41485436
>air power is pointless
Christ, is fetal alcohol syndrome really that prevalent in the former USSR?
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>>41485436
>actually believing this
pure destilled cope
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>>41485436
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>>41485465
Its like watching BBC porn. Putin is Shane diesel. Ukraine, Syria, Turkey and Venezuela are the pornstars while the US plays the cuckold role. What are we even accomplishing of having 1000s of F-35s?
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>>41485478
>you got nothing to propose?
I "propose" that you're a fucking retarded for linking some random faggot's (It's probably actually yours) quora "answer" as proof that you're correct.
> Tell what is the point of having a huge air force
To project military power through the air across the globe.
>if vatniks are still fucking burgers over in geopolitics
This is a non-sequitur, but Russia has not had a serious geopolitical win in decades. They're hated by basically everyone that matters other than China, who puts up with them for now.
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>>41485516
>>41485478
If we could only harness russian cope as fuel, the western world could become oil independent within a short time.
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>>41485436
Most retarded post I’ve seen all year, congrats.
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>>41485516
>gets cornered in argument
>immediately resorts to cuckposting
vatniks are fascinatingly dumb.
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>>41485516
>What are we even accomplishing of having 1000s of F-35s?
Given your poor English, I don't think "we" is the right word here.
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>>41485518
>To project military power through the air across the globe.

Accomplish nothing

>but Russia has not had a serious geopolitical win in decades.

proceeds to get cucked in Syria, Venezuela, driving a wedge between Turkey and NATO.
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>>41485518
>I "propose" that you're a fucking retarded for linking some random faggot's (It's probably actually yours) quora "answer" as proof that you're correct.

So your not rebutting anything in that post because SEAD and airpower is worthless?
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>>41485436
The nature of air power vs ground power is that ground power is more persistent, while air power is more easily concentrated.

IADS' problem is avoiding defeat in detail. It's a forced choice: fight back and risk dying (the Iraqi choice), or hide and risk irrelevance (the Serbian choice).

Russian is going for 56 S400 battalions by 2020, they're in the high 30s right now IIRC, and obviously geographically distributed. A battalion has 32 to 64 missiles (the auto system fires pairs to improve Ph). It takes nearly an hour to reload in a best case training scenario (i.e. assuming reloads are available and prepositioned at firing sites, which isn't normally the case, they're at storage depots, or prepo'd away from kill radii in a WW3 scenario.

32 shots is not a lot vs a generic USAF SEAD mission. After the Tomahawks and MALDs start flying, the commander is going to need every TEL left to be scoring 2:1 kill ratios or more to make a dent. If the USAF sends in it's QF16s first, they may never kill enough to proc the F35s.
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>>41485579
This. Defensive missile systems will always be fighting a losing battle without accompanying combat aircraft to complement them.
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>>41485545
>Accomplish nothing
That would be the average Russian before he dies at age 50 from drinking nothing but vodka for 40 years.
>proceeds to get cucked in Syria
Assad is NEVER getting back control of the entire country, and he's already looking towards the gulf kingdoms for reconstruction money.
>Venezuela
Maduro's already gone, he just doesn't know it yet.
>driving a wedge between Turkey and NATO
Turkey's economy is in the toilet, you should get along fine.
>>41485568
His post is just vatnigger defense industry marketing info rewritten. I don't give enough shits to counter every retarded fact and figure.
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>>41485579
>http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2019-03-29/7_1039_pvo.html

Aha! Here's the link I was looking for. It's the same argument from a Russian defence writer. Run this through google translate if you like Slavs calling out their own kind.
>>
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>>41485516
>What are we even accomplishing of having 1000s of F-35s?
yeah, we should just stop having an air force, thats cuck shit
>>
>>41485579
>IADS' problem is avoiding defeat in detail. It's a forced choice: fight back and risk dying (the Iraqi choice), or hide and risk irrelevance (the Serbian choice).

You do realize those shitty 1960s rusted buckets are nowhere near what the soviets have had right?

>Russian is going for 56 S400 battalions by 2020, they're in the high 30s right now IIRC, and obviously geographically distributed. A battalion has 32 to 64 missiles (the auto system fires pairs to improve Ph). It takes nearly an hour to reload in a best case training scenario (i.e. assuming reloads are available and prepositioned at firing sites, which isn't normally the case, they're at storage depots, or prepo'd away from kill radii in a WW3 scenario.

They do have 800 SAMs available, in general they have more missiles than the available aircraft missiles the US currently has in their air force. Yes more F-35s will be produced but so will SAMs

After the Tomahawks and MALDs start flying, the commander is going to need every TEL left to be scoring 2:1 kill ratios or more to make a dent. If the USAF sends in it's QF16s first, they may never kill enough to proc the F35s.

OTH radars with 3000kms coverage will know the altitude range and which direction they are heading each container radar can deal with 5000 targets. SAM operators will be informed where they are heading and which SAMs to use.
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>>41484418
>Honestly, I don't see how 76 is supposed to be some kind of Earth-shattering number here :^/
especially when you know that ivan sells his seconds on the export market, and most of the first run will be, naturally, of second quality...
gotta love that russian commitment to the lie
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>>41485628
Waste trillions but accomplish nothing when vatniks keep fucking with you.

I would shoot myself if I were you this is a /k/ thread afterall.
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>>41485639
800 s-300s
>>
The problem with Russian 5th gen aircraft isn't the tech it's that the Russian government and people involved in these projects need to steal from it constantly. You can't have any significant public spending without people using it to pad their offshore bank accounts.

Russia won't be able to break out of these problems until the kleptocracy is brought under control.
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>>41485639
>SAM operators will be informed where they are heading and which SAMs to use.

They could be omniscient, it doesn't make a difference to basic air vs ground strategy. The land forces can't all be in one place, so the air forces can gangbang them one at a time.
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>>41485722
Dubs of truth.
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>>41485722
>The problem with Russian 5th gen aircraft isn't the tech
The kleptocracy is also an issue, but don't let that detract from the fact that the brain-drain of the 90's has also destroyed Russia's technology sector.
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>>41485740
>hey could be omniscient, it doesn't make a difference to basic air vs ground strategy. The land forces can't all be in one place, so the air forces can gangbang them one at a time.

Different HF readings will classify which target is which. As far as I know there is no material or aerial jammers that jam in the HF frequency. Targets will be classified, buk, tor and pantsirs will be used for cruise missiles or smaller targets, long range defenses will focus on aircraft targets. It all depends who has more missiles takes awhile for aircrafts to refuel and reload before flying back again.
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>>41485809
>brain-drain of the 90's has also destroyed Russia's technology sector.

geez your no different than a vatnik telling a burger wait too till all the old white people disappear from the US defense industry.
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>>41484349
>not even 100 aircraft by 2030

jesus christ russia, what the fuck is wrong with you?
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>>41485830
>wait too till all
wat
>>
>>41485840
problem solved
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>>41485811
>Different HF readings will classify which target is which

HF resolution is 80m after algorithms, so we know you're FOS; but I reiterate: it doesn't matter.

If each side has 10 regiments, then 10 aircraft regiments will fight 1 ground regiment in the first battle, 1 in the second battle, etc for 10 battles.

The goal of IADS is to deter by attrition and delay/distract long enough for ground forces to try for the airbases. It can't stop a determined peer opponent who goes all in.
>>
>>41485870
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>>41485229
for most of the world this chinese dystopia would be an improvement
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>>41485897
>HF resolution is 80m after algorithms, so we know you're FOS; but I reiterate: it doesn't matter. If each side has 10 regiments, then 10 aircraft regiments will fight 1 ground regiment in the first battle, 1 in the second battle, etc for 10 battles.The goal of IADS is to deter by attrition and delay/distract long enough for ground forces to try for the airbases. It can't stop a determined peer opponent who goes all in.

80 meter resolution is enough to classify targets. The soviet union was to have plans similar to the skywave radar example you gave but their economy collapse. created a newer generation OTH radar, upgraded the radar and same company is pouring money into research regarding changing ionosphere predictions.

>If each side has 10 regiments, then 10 aircraft regiments will fight 1 ground regiment in the first battle, 1 in the second battle, etc for 10 battles.

Air defense launchers come with short and medium range air defenses to provide cover for other air defenses. The next problem is the load out for the 10 aircraft regiments, weapons of choice and how far they will launch it from being targeted themselves. Got to choose a plan of attack

>The goal of IADS is to deter by attrition and delay/distract long enough for ground forces to try for the airbases. It can't stop a determined peer opponent who goes all In.

IADs are mobile systems eventually aircrafts will be grounded from flight when they move closer.
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>>41485901
Why is Poland giving golden shower to that F-35?
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>>41485943
And you'd be a commissar, right? Fuck off retard.
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>>41485870
*suppresses your enemy AD*
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>>41486010
He's not wrong, tho. Not sure why are you sperging out at him.
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>>41485384
I don't get it, there aircraft can do the same thing, except they are much more mobile and faster...
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>>41484349
>He expressed hope that the updated plans would be fulfilled.

As in “he hopes it will happen”. Russian bitch boys BTFO’d again
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>>41485266
>shoot down one plane
You still lost like the slavic bitches you are LOL!
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>>41485870
>ground based air defense
>not shit

cmon senpai, tell me how you're going to project power with a fucking sam
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>>41486010
I mean people b dying of fucking brain parasites. He's def not wrong.
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>>41485327
Correct.
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>>41484529
>tho to be fair it's not as bad as with the AK12
what's wrong with the AK12?
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>>41486865
I know, it is just a rare sight of a vatnik actually acknowledging it to be wrong. God forbid one vatnik would do that when another vatnik had claimed it in the same or a recent thread though, but you cant expect too much. Gotta live with what you can get.
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>>41486894
Vaporware
>>
Retarded Russians. The project has been cancelled. National Interest and the Drive has written it over and over again.
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>>41487167
>National Interest and the Drive
Vatniks generally are stupid, but those 2 sources are fucking awful for defense news. The Su-57 is pretty obviously not being cancelled. The fact that Russia is only considering purchasing less than 100 over the next decade is pretty pathetic, though.
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>>41487167
>implying that this stuff has not been said to mock the claims of vatnik have accumilated over the years on the Su-57
It is the classical vatnik move of playing the victim, when he is the biggest offender in the first place, will insult you and your family for years to the rudest, but the second you call his mom a whore once back, he gets all moral and claims to the moral high ground, while persevering that he has never done the same and then use this one time offense of you as an exuse to insult you and your family even more.
What a pathetic display.
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>>41487405
>Biggest offender in the first place
Tell the good doctor where the big bad bear touched you're peepee.
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>>41487190
>>41487190
>. The fact that Russia is only considering purchasing less than 100 over the next decade is pretty pathetic, though.
That's more than America's road mobile ICBM's though. Oh wait America doesn't have road mobile ICBM's just as Russia doesn't put all their eggs on planes, they're still focused more on ground based systems.
>>
>>41487424
You know it is true, that is why you are now dodging actually answering.
>>
only retards thought it was cancelled
which this place as a lot
hell to this day they think that the 12 prototypes that exist so far are serial produced..
>>
>>41487435
>talking about conventional assets
>brings up nukes
Why do vatniks always do this
>>
>>41484567
>f22 equivalent
in terms of what?
its avionics are a fucking mess the cockpit is still in the 80s the radar is from 2007 and the mcm is a piles of shit from the 70s and 80 running at below 150mhz
there is a reason as to why they will never use them in a war on a contested air theater and you can blame all of it in LM
>>
>>41487435
>That's more than America's road mobile ICBM's though
What do differing nuclear deterrent doctrines have to do with Russia's inability to procure 5th gen aircraft?

Ground-based SAMs are a significantly worse investment than fighter aircraft if you can afford to operate enough of them. You can't perform SEAD against an F-22, or an Su-57 for that matter.
>>
>>41487473
It was canceled to a degree that is was only to be produced in a meaningful way. You cant just take what some say and then pretend everyone said it. There were even americans saying it wasnt canceled, that is the difference to vatniks and russians, russians will never correct the vatniks at all to any degree that is noticeable or that matters.
>>
>>41487435
>what is about this total different thig, huh?
Every time. No wonder Russia is in such a horrible shape, when its inhabitants think that is a solution to a problem.
>>
>>41487491
*in not a meaningful way
>>
Reminder that despite their reliance on them, Russia doesn't have much confidence in their air defense systems, given recent combat performance.
>>41484470
>>
>>41487528
>TV guided missle wrecking Pantsir

Imagine you are sitting in a Pantsir in the middle of nowhere for months doing nothing but collecting dust, so you set up a TV with an antenna. One time you are warching TV, signal gets disturbances, you wack the TV, doesnt get better, you play with the antenna position, only to get a picture of your closer getting Pantsir with target cross on the screen. You shake your hand out of the window, you can see it barely on the screen. You never had hoped more for a commercial TV brake in your life.
>>
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>>41484349
>tass
>ruptly
>Actually believing bullshit Putin says.
Ok Ivan, we've heard you, now go be vatnik somewhere else.
>>
>>41487688
Just love the absurdity of those pictures.
>>
>>41487698
I know, right? They never fail to make me laugh no matter how many times I see them. It's some sort of next-level comedy.
>>
>>41487491
nobody but the usual media said it was cancelled

what happened was the fact that russia said they will buy in batches of 12 each year thats literally it
but because this doesnt sell you had the usual
"thedrive.com"
"businessinsider.com"
"popularmechanics.com"
all known sites for their in depth level of military affairs saying russia cancelled it
>>
>>41484349
The exposed fanblades get me every time
>>
>>41487735
What? Didnt those sites just said that the mass production of the plane was cancelled? Can be used easily to make the wrong impression, but still nothing compared to all the other shit one could hear from the vatniks. If it werent for them, the whole debate about it would be way less heated, they turned it into a total shitfest, so dont be suprised when there are fitting things coming back.
>>
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Ha use seagulls instead.
>>
>>41484567
>capable of Mach 4–4.3, equipped with an anti-missile laser, and claimed would be able to operate at very high altitudes and even in near space
>This is coming from a nation that has yet to prove it can produce an F-22 equivalent.

You totally don't understand how does this work.
>Anti-missile laser
What do Call of Duty kids think - a full scale laser that will burn missiles like in Ace Combat 7
What is in reality - electronic countermeasure device based on IR laser that blinds heat seeking missiles. Existing technology.

>operate at space
What do Call of Duty kids think - plane will fly outside atmosphere like in Stargate
What is in reality - plane will have anti-satellite missiles that would allow to engage targets in space. Existing technology.

High altitudes and Mach 4? Nothing impossible, it all was achieved in fucking 50s and 60s, but not in mass produced aircrafts.
>>
>>41488114
https://southfront.org/russian-su-30sm-fighter-jet-crashes-off-syrian-coast-both-pilots-dead-photo/
That would be suicide.
>>
>>41485970
Not that guy but OTH radar are very limited in many ways, including the fact that you have a large immobile target broadcasting its position over massive distances.

More importantly, the wavelengths are very limited not just in accuracy, but also target size and so on. Basically good luck doing much against a 5m long target (0.5m wide) with 10-100m long wavelengths.

You can even find commercial jammers on amazon (I know they aren't directed but that's not the point) for such wavelengths, and its main advantage is also its downfall. Longer wavelengths require much less energy to generate, which is fantastic for getting massive ranges, but that also means that jamming signals are very easy to generate too. When working over such distances, you don't need much to jam the signals.


As for IADs, their main issue are stealth aircraft. The S-400 has missiles that can engage long distance targets, but against stealth aircraft they have to rely on a very inefficient kill chain (low frequency radar and the missile radar with its very limited range against stealth), with low amounts of such missiles and so on. Once those missiles are depleted the IADs are fully defensive because stealth can easily fight from rather short standoff positions.
>>
>>41488124
What’s your native language?
>>
>>41488251
kek
>>
>>41487698
>>41487728
This.
>>
>>41488124
>High altitudes and Mach 4? Nothing impossible, it all was achieved in fucking 50s and 60s
Source?
>>
>>41488265
There’s the US X-15, but as far as I know, Ivan wasn’t flying high altitude hypersonic aircraft back in the 50s. Even then, a rocket-powered test platform doesn’t exactly translate to a turboramjet(?) powered fighter aircraft.
>>
>>41484847
Where da bombers at ?
>>
>>41488284
Probably a separate pic.
>>
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>>41484349
Clown thread?
>>
>>41488124

Mach 4 is an absoloutly insane claim and would require either that it's a suborbital craft or an absurdly expensive aircraft made near totally out of titanium.

Laser based IRCM are not existing Russian technology, and it is exceptionally unlikely they could afford to develop a working system.
>>
>>41488294
I mean, from an engineering perspective, there’s nothing too crazy about mach 4. Ramjets combined with turbojets aren’t black magic or anything. Making a reliable aircraft that won’t be fucked after 3 minutes at that speed is well beyond anything Russia can put forward, though.
>>
>>41488303
Mach 4 suborbital rockets aren't anything crazy. Mach 4 @24km, air breathing ramjets are because it means plowing though air at a speed where your engine intake air is going to get hot enough to start seriously wreaking titanium alloy.
>>
>>41488303
How long MiG 25 lasted at Mach 2,5? Sixty seconds before the compressor blades meltdown?
>>
>>41488338
Yeah, the whole MiG-41 description reeks of some politician and or executive adding every cutting-edge technology of the late 90s to the design document, and not looking at it since.
>>
>>41484716

> 16 purchased

> Total over the last 20 years.

Good luck on that production ramp up, Ivan.
>>
>>41488360
Wait, we're up to 16 now? From 12 last year? Thats honestly not that bad
>>
>>41488370
They even flew 6 as Putin’s escorts for some event the other day. The announcement referenced in the OP is the direct result of that publicity stunt.
>>
>>41488377
I saw the vid. How did they keep them from crashing into each other?
>>
>>41488391
It honestly looked sorta shaky there a few times. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was turbulence, but for fuck’s sake, it’s Russia. Who knows?
>>
>>41488397
Probably just a mountain brake engaging :^)))
>>
>think /k/ shitting on Russia's aviation is a meme
>go read up, watch some YT videos
>find out about the Tu-144
>mfw I have no face
>>
>>41488413
You will be argued to death by vatniks
>But Tupolev "konkordski" 144 precedes Concorde! Reeeeeeeee!
>>
>>41488413
On one hand, you’ve gotta hand it to the Russians for developing systems using technologies that they don’t have a good handle on. The ingenuity involved is endearing in a weird way. On the other hand, the results are sometimes terrifying for those unlucky enough to have to fly in those things.
>>
>>41484349
>exposed rivets
>>
>>41488370

Purchased means, I'd gather, built and contracted.

Over at The Drive, they had six of em escorting a vip and that was described as half the available planes.
>>
>>41484349
Wouldn't the pointy things below the wings increase its RCS? You see no such things on the Raptor or Lightning.
>>
>>41488437
So, assuming 50% availability due to Russian maintenance, they just flew their entire airworthy 5th gen fleet for some publicity stunt.
>>
>>41488443
Probably, but to be honest, no one on this board will know for certain. And those that do won’t be talking about it on a public forum.
>>
>>41488426
Soviet/Russia did a lot of that
Develop some type of epic plane, rocket, weaponsystem or whatever, and then just let it wallow in a lack of funding, political infighting and cancelled orders.
Their rocket tech from the space race is pure porn
>>
>>41484786
How many F-22 did the US operate in 1999?
>>
>>41488303
>I mean, from an engineering perspective, there’s nothing too crazy about mach 4.
From an actual engineering perspective, mach 4 requires some pretty fucking exotic designs and materials to maintain for any appreciable period of time on something the size of a manned craft. Doubly so if you want a traditional nose mounted radar.
You're also talking about something that will have absolute ass maneuvering performance at subsonic speeds and need a retardedly long airstrip to take off unassisted. It'll also have to somehow account for insane thermal expansion that will kill performance.
>>
>>41488455
That’s the thing that’s always interesting to me. They’ll develop some objectively impressive wunderwaffen, but then lack the technical capability to mass produce it or even make it practical. They had to know it’s not an effective way to outfit a military, and I really doubt they had any illusions that they could force the US into an arms funding race.
>>
>>41485446
>>
>>41488462
It wasn’t introduced into active service until ‘05. There’s currently 180 or so operational aircraft, so well over double what Russia plans to procure over the next decade.
>>
>>41488470
>They’ll develop some objectively impressive wunderwaffen
Such as?
>>
>>41488501
I mean, the whole ekranoplane project for instance. That shit was really cool, and theoretically had a lot of potential.
>>
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>>41488479
So how many F-22 did the US operate in 1999? Tell us, so we could compare the US production performance to that of contemporary Russia.
>There’s currently 180 or so operational aircraft
"Currently" is 29 years after YF-22's first flight and 22 years after F-22's first flight. It has currently passed 9 years after T-50-1's first flight and 2 years after T-50-11's first flight.
>>
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>>41488470
>They’ll develop some objectively impressive wunderwaffen, but then lack the technical capability to mass produce it or even make it practical
>>41488508
>the whole ekranoplane project for instance
Indeed, what the fuck even is A-90, right?
>>
>>41488517
F-22 stopped production in 2011, bro.
>>
>>41488517
I mean, sure, but the issue with Russia is that they’re procuring a ridiculously small amount of aircraft that will likely be somewhat outdated by 2028. By then, the US Navy intends to be procuring its Hornet successor, which is supposed to be a 6th gen of some sort. The fact that Russia can’t produce anywhere near equal numbers of 5th gen aircraft 3 decades after the US did is seriously concerning for their future prospects.
>>
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>>41488528
So answer me, how many F-22 did the US operate in 1999 that you feel entitled to open your fucking trap commenting on the number of Su-57 produced 2 years after serial production airframe prototype's first flight?
>>
Still more than G*rmany can build.
>>
>>41488540
Holy shit, you’re really pissed about this for some reason. Calm down. Unless you’re Russian or maybe Belarusian, the collapse of Russia’s aerospace industry is a good thing for your country.
>>
>>41488539
Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of ATF program production numbers being cut from 750 to 187.
>will likely be somewhat outdated by 2028
Cool story, lol.
>Russia can’t produce anywhere near equal numbers of 5th gen aircraft
How many F-22 did the US operate in 1999? Answer the question.
>3 decades after the US did
It's almost like something happened during this time that affected country's ability to R&D and produce aicraft, right?
>>
>>41488553
>for some reason
Could the reason be a bunch of american shitposters being incapable to comprehend the basic logic over the course of several recent years?
>>
>>41485579
>32 shots is not a lot vs a generic USAF SEAD mission.
Those are 32 shots for any strategic targets like strategic bombers, tankers, AWACS etc. Against tactical targets, it can use 9M96 quadpacked. But it probably won't because tactical targets are given to BuKs. PGM's and low flying targets are given to Tor and anything close by are for Tunguska. Then they have EW like Rtut-BM. S-400 is part of an IADS with the purpose of shielding the tanks as they push towards airfields. It is not going alone.
>>
>>41488560
>How many F-22 did the US operate in 1999?
Is this the "But your country hangs Negroes" of /k/ fighter threads?
>>
>>41488553
>Holy shit, you’re really pissed about this for some reason.
Kek, he is. On a scale of vatnik assblastedness I'd say he's at about 7 out of 10.
>>
>>41488576
No, this is showing Americans who shitpost about Su-57's production a comparison between the production of Russia's first 5th gen fighter and the production of USA's first 5th gen fighter.
>>
>>41488591
2 questions:

>how many Su-57's do you think Russia will produce until say 2030?
>with what money?
>>
>>41488563
you aren't using logic.
>>
>>41488560
>187
So over double the amount of 5th gen fighters Russia plans on procuring and 20 years earlier? Of course, that’s ignoring the F-35 numbers in an attempt to be fair to Russia. That’s fucking pathetic, but par for the course for post-Soviet Russia I guess.
>>
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>>41488599
>do you think
No one gives a shit what anyone thinks. Fuck off to twitter or tumblr to discuss what random people "think".
The information so far is that they "agreed to sign a package contract to supply 76 Su-57 before 2028". There will be more to discuss when the contract will be signed, which will most likely happen in 2020, after the delivery of the 2 aircraft on order. Whether this discussed contract for 76 aircraft is in addition to the previous one for 13 aircraft that was planned to be signed in 2020 or not it not clear yet. That's it.
Get your fucking thoughts and feelings and fuck off to nationalinterest, f-16.net, warisboring or other cesspit alike. Fucking millennial brainwashed post-modernist faggots, Jesus Christ.
>>
>>41488608
Whatever makes you sleep at night, clown.
>>41488610
How many F-22 did the US operate in 1999? Answer the question.
>>
>>41484349
>76
Why are they making so few? That's Australian tier levels of procurement.
>>
>>41488642
It was zero. Still doesn't change the fact that by 2028, the US will have literally thousands of 5th gens between the F-22 and 35, while Russia will have less than 80. This is, of course, assuming that Russia will stick to its procurement plans for the Su-57, which have consistently been downsized and delayed over the course of the aircraft's development.
>>
>>41488652
They can't afford more, but they're too proud to buy useful numbers of one of their less capable aircraft.
>>
>>41488642
>How many F-22 did the US operate in 1999?
How is that even relevant? The US was the ONLY relevant power during the 1990s, which means Lockheed or the USAF or whoever was in absolutely no rush whatsoever to get the F-22 into service.
>>
>>41488653
>It was zero
So keep you fucking trap shut expecting Russia to produce more Su-57 than the US had F-22 in the respective year.
>>
>>41488672
>How is that even relevant?
It shows Americans who shitpost about Su-57's production a comparison between the production of Russia's first 5th gen fighter and the production of USA's first 5th gen fighter.
>>
>>41488638
>facts
The facts are that, currently, Russia operates around 12 allegedly 5th gen fighters while the US operates hundreds.
In 2028, assuming all goes to plan, Russia will be operating a grand total of around 80 5th gens, while the US has planned to purchase thousands.

As you can imagine, this isn't a place Russian military planners want to be.
>>
>>41488642
stay flustered and wrong I guess. :^)
>>
>>41488673
Russia can't even build 100 planes after 3 decades of development, man. Even the Chinese don't have such problems. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they end up buying J-20s to fill in the glaring gaps in capability.
>>
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>>41488653
>the US will have literally thousands of 5th gens between the F-22 and 35
They will burn equally good in the artificial sunrises that Russia will light over your shithole if it'll ever try to use these piece of shit flying rustbuckets against it.
>>
>>41488677
The fact is that "currently" is 29 years after YF-22's first flight and 22 years after F-22's first flight. It has currently passed 9 years after T-50-1's first flight and 2 years after T-50-11's first flight.
>>
>>41488676
Again, how is that relevant?

If Lockheed, the USAF, Clinton had wanted to get the F-22 into service earlier, they could have done so. But they had no such wishes since it was the 90's with everything that entailed.
>>
>>41484786
thats ridiculous for a program of this size
>>
>>41488689
I love it when Vatniks get backed into a corner. As soon as the run out of explanations for why Russia simply can't compete with 1st world countries when it comes to technology, they always reference their nuclear arsenal.
>>
>>41488689
>700m cep
pathetic, delusional woman
>>
>>41488696
>Again, how is that relevant?
It's relevant to local American shitposting.
>>
>>41488689
>muh nukes
Yes Ivan, we know you have tigers too.
>>
YFW when you learn that stealth was a meme to force Russia to keep bankrupting itself over and over.
>>
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>>41488699
>N-n-nukes don't count, p-please waste shitload of money trying to overproduce amerishithole from the wrong side of the globe
No, how about instead we will just burn you if you attack us. Bite me, crying bitch.
>>
>>41488693
And 19 years later, they'll still have fewer Su-57s. Comparing Russian procurement to American doesn't tend to shine a very good light on Russia.
>>
>>41488702
But it isn't since it wrongly implies that the F-22 COULD NOT have been put into service earlier, which is false. Were you even alive during the 90's or are you a clueless zoomer?
>>
>>41488711
I wouldn't do that, Igor. Without the US, your AIDs medication will stop being shipped.
>>
>>41488719
>We could've totally do it, we dust didn't want to :^)
Cry more.
>>
>>41488710
Kek
>when you invent memes that hurt yourself in order to hurt your rival more
>>
>>41488715
19 years later it will be 2038, not 2028.
>>
>>41488729
I'm not sure who's crying in this thread.
>>
>>41488742
Sure you aren't. Most-modernist millennial faggots like local american shitposters aren't sure about anything.
>>
>>41488677
>around 12 allegedly 5th gen fighters
Incorrect. Those are prototypes. Russia currently does not field any 5th gen fighters.
>>
>>41488689
>>41488711
Given the quality of Russian aircraft, or lack thereof, in recent decades, I'm honestly not sure I'd want to be relying solely on their missiles for security.
>>
>>41488745
>Most-modernist
I'm assuming you meant post-modernist given the context, but that's ok. It can be hard learning a first-world language when you're from a place like Russia.
>>
>>41488729
>We could've totally do it, we dust didn't want to
Correct and had you been alive during the 90s you'd know it.

During the 90s, the US was the sole power in the world. And American elites were convinced that it would forever remain like this. For this reason, plenty interesting defence projects were cancelled while others such as the F-22 were not outright cancelled but put on the backburner.

I do not agree with these decisions at all as they were naive, shortsighted and ultimatly wrong, but that's what it was.
>>
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>>41488759
>Russia currently does not field any 5th gen fighters.
Wrong. It also was used in combat.
>>
>>41488783
To borrow a common vatnik talking point, "bombing goat herders doesn't count."
In all fairness, though, by that standard, no nation has flown 5th gens in combat.
>>
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>>41488762
Quite enough to drive American pestilence out if it ever tries to get silly around Russia's borders.
>>
>>41488789
>To borrow a common vatnik talking point, "bombing goat herders doesn't count."
To borrow a common fatnik talking point, "bombing goat herders counts". And Su-57 did it before F-35.
>>
>>41488792
Have you looked at Russia's borders lately? I think the US building airbases on them qualifies as more than silly. Too bad the ruskies are too pussy to do anything about it.
>>
>>41488783
>SU-57
>5th gen
Sure
>>
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>>41488798
>Have you looked at Russia's borders lately?
As a matter of a fact, I did. Have you looked at who controls Aleppo lately? Yep, still not the US terrorist allies. Looks like your imperialist intervention in Syria didn't help your saudi and israeli allies to succeed in installing another sockpuppet terrorist regime in the region. I wonder what upsets you more, this fact, or how all the US airbases will equally burn if NATO ever tries to attack Russia?
>>
>>41488797
>no u
>>
>>41488815
>I can appeal to your argument, but you can't appeal to mine, it's unfair
Try again. Fatniks are the ones who jerk off to "combat proveness" even if it's against irrelevant opponent with obsolete hardware.
>>
>>41488812
Well Russia saved two thirds of what's left of Syria, but lost most of Ukraine at the same time. Fantastic job there Boris.

Russia is losing the pissing contest and there's nothing you can do about it.
>>
>>41488830
>even if it's against irrelevant opponent with obsolete hardware
All hardware made by Russia is by definition obsolete.
>>
>>41488830
>obsolete hardware
He admitted it guys.
>>
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>>41488839
>lost most of Ukraine
Lost to what, lol? You can't even locate Ukraine on a map, what the fuck gives you an impression you have any authority to judge who lost what there at all?
>>
>>41488846
What did I admit?
>>
>>41488846
Good, expect the tangential references to their aging nuclear arsenal next.
>>
>>41484349
>oh no no no
Guess i can ignore this thread.
>>
>>41488863
Ukraine was a large Russian trade partner, was using Russian standards of trade, was hosting Russian military bases and so on. Now Ukraine is moving towards NATO and the EU, is shifting to EU trade standards, is buying western military equipment and so on. They literally have their joining of the EU in their constitution. But sure, try to claim you're the only one with knowledge on Ukraine and how Russia totally isn't trying to damage control there.
>>
>>41488897
>He actually believes what he's writing
Kek. Have you even been to Ukraine?
>>
>>41488908
Ah yes, the "I have no rebuttal" reply.
>>
>>41488925
No one gives a fuck about your opinion, anon. Especially not in Ukraine, Russia and the region in general.
>>
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Please guys, leave poor Armatard alone. The
>How many F-22 in 1999?
is the only thing he may cling on, before he slips into depression again.
The desperate attempts to derail the thread into general Rußian dickwaving are fun, too.
In meantime, TIGERS
>>
>>41488863
Dude, they've effectively alienated the country's government and military by annexing Crimea and attempting to do the same with rebels in Donetsk. Now, they have NATO troops spending deployments in the west of the country training Ukrainian troops, and the US congress approving tons of weapons sales.
>>
>>41488935
So Ukraine prefers the country whose citizens cannot even put it on a map to their "brother nation" right next door? Sad. Maybe if Russia wasn't a subhuman-infested shithole, they'd have better relationships with their neighbors.
>>
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>>41488953
CNN report: the post.
>>
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>>41488956
>Ukraine prefers
Jesus fucking Christ.
>>
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Shit. Armatard's here. For the poor souls who are unfortunate enough to tackle into a conversation with him, ya'll better prepare some medicine for headaches because I guarantee that you'll have to chat with him for a while.
>>
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>>41488956
I think pic is related, as more and more young ukies work across the Europe and witness the difference.
>>
>>41488956
I mean, there's a reason every Eastern European state excluding Belarus has a pretty dim view on modern-day Russia.
>>
>>41488952
>>41488979
Why do you call him Armatard? Something that has to do with the Armata tank?
>>
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>>41488991
>>
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>The obsessed schizo has landed into the thread
My job here is done.
>>
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>>41484441
Maybe they are just coping..
>>41488462
>How many F-22 did the US operate in 1999?
Two.
>>
>>41484349
Like the T-14, Ak12, etc etc I’ll believe it when I see it.
>>
>>41484426
This.
>>
>>41489062
>posts yoba face when owned badly
Bring in the bingo chart, lads!
>>
>>41484523
It’s not a shitpost just because it makes you seethe, goblino
>>
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>>41489062
Me, obsessed? Pot calling the kettle black now eh, mate? Also, no, your job here isn't done, you've yet to reply to me with some snarky statement regarding butts, which comprises most of your insults. Come on, give me a jab.
>>
>>41484349
>2028

In almost a decade Russia will have as many Su-57 as there are F-35 made in a single year.
>>
>>41488863
Lost all the things imported from Ukraine like engines and missile seekers.
>>
>>41485229
You're correct in the fact that most is siding with America, but less out of a sense of freedom and more out of hatred for the Chinese claiming their waters.
>>
>>41485395
>>41485357
Even their attempts at memes are poor shallow copies of superior Western originals.
Vatniks are even lower than the insectoid chinks it seems.
>>
>>41488991
There you go, always a fun read:
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/41073706/#q41077815
>>
>>41490050
>You can always tell when a meme is made by a russian, its like always a crude reversed copy of something that made russians go mad.
>>
>>41485446
>>41488472
Russians are having so much trouble funding it that they can only afford one of the final engines per aircraft.
>>
>>41488908
Actually I've spent quite some time there, and I have relatives in Ukraine, Poland and Russia, though I'm not a slav myself thank god.
>>
>>41490026
That I know. China is really bad a diplomacy. It just rubs all of its neighbors the wrong way.
>>
>>41484426
So?
We are 22 T in debt.
Historically, how has that ended for nations?
>>
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>>41490436
But sometimes, just sometimes, something hilarious comes out of such attempts. Albeit not in the way desired by vatniks worldwide...
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>>41490934
>I dont know how economics works
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>>41491021
S-P-A-C-E
T-I-G-E-R-S
>>
>>41490934
>muh debt
Whenever someone uses this argument I'm honestly worried about their finances. Did you never hear of interest rates? Do you think everyone has the same ability to repay their debt? What about assets that someone might own? What about financial stability?

A real life example is how Russia defaulted at about half of the debt that Japan currently has, while Japan is doing fine.
>>
>>41490521
>Wtf is testing?
>>
>>41486352
>ground based air defense
>not shit
>cmon senpai, tell me how you're going to project power with a fucking sam
>>
>>41491924
And despite the losses the US was still able to effectively operate over North Vietnam.
>>
>>41491021
T-I-G-E-R-S and rapepolandball were gifts from the meme gods to punish russians for their crimes against memes.
>>
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>>41486352
>This imbecile thinks aircraft are not an integral part of proper IADS
I wonder if fatniks will ever learn.
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>>41492119
>And despite the losses the US was still able to effectively operate over North Vietnam.
>>
>>41492119
>the US was still able to effectively operate over North Vietnam
The only thing regarding Vietnam that the US was able to do effectively is losing 10000 aircraft and the war.
>>
>>41488560
The difference between the cuts in the PAK-FA and ATF programs is that one was cut back due to the changing geopolitical landscape, while the other was cut due to impossibility of funding.
>>
>>41488830
And who the fuck have the Russians gone into combat against, the Georgians?
>>
>>41492201
>aircraft
There is that vatnik cope again. Inb4 but but it is true. Then why is it that in every other conflict everyone is only talking about planes and attack helicopters? Vatniks truely never learn.
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>>41492201
>>41492189
>political mismanagement and unwillingness to further commit means military = bad
Incorrect
>>
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>>41492379
CIA. Russians beat CIA at Crimea.
>>
>>41492354
>cuts in the PAK-FA
What "cuts"?
>>41492379
They bombed American terrorist allies in Syria.
>>
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>>41492434
>Squeals "it doesn't count"
>Anyone else is coping
ROFL.
>>41492460
>Losing 10000 aircraft and the war is effectiveness
I mean if we're measuring how effective was the government processing its young soldiers into rotting bodies of invading imperialist war criminals. Stay fucking #rekt tho.
>>
>>41492515
Cool, you blew up some goatfuckers equipped with M16s and TOWs, just like we’ve been doing for like 16 fucking years.
>>
>>41492544
Every time a vatnik or chink calls an American an imperialist I die inside.
>>
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>>41484349
>>
>>41492189
>photograph that isn't of Americans and was taken after North Vietnam surrendered with the Paris Peace Accords
>>
>>41492555
The problem is fatniks are the ones who jerk off to "combat proveness" even if it's against irrelevant opponent with obsolete hardware. But when Su-57 flies a combat mission a year before F-35, all of the sudden it doesn't matter. Typical hypocrite two-faced ameristench attitude.
>>
>>41492504
I’d absolutely love to see some evidence of combat between illegally unmarked VDV and CIA operatives working in cahoots with the Ukrainian government. Unfortunately, you’re just spewing shit.
>>
>>41492568
Too bad it's only inside, unlike imperialist amerifaggot invaders that died on the outside too in Vietnam before also losing the war and fucking off.
>>
>>41492575
>"I think"
>"They hope"
>"Supposed to"
>"May begin"
Oh look, it's this picture again. Try harder, sosach refugee.
>>
>>41492586
>even if it's against irrelevant opponent with obsolete hardware
We don't fight many opponents that don't use non-Russian/Obsolete (Basically a synonym) weaponry.
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>>41492586
You absolute mongoloid. Within the past 30 years, America has carried out combined arms operations with hundreds of thousands of troops against enemies with access to IADS and armored formations. Regardless of the fact that the Iraqis are subhuman shitskins with room-temperature IQs, those overwhelming victories against conventional foes in a contemporary setting spoke volumes about America’s readiness to fight a conventional war. The fact that we haven’t genocided the cunts out of existence due to some misplaced hope for democracy among animals is the only reason we haven’t pacified the region.
>>
>>41492620
Kinda the point, its always delayed, over and over.

The current PAKFA isn't even the supposed production model, it lacks the stealth modifications required for its ducts and IRST bulge, say nothing of certain "production" PAKFAs lacking RAM.
>>
>>41492544
I mean it was over 2000 that got shot down not 10,000 mongol rape baby but okay
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>>41492601
>it’s only imperialism when people I don’t like do it
Your day will come soon enough, you degenerate authoritarian cocksucker. Tibetans, Hong Kongers, East Turkmen, Ukrainians, and Chechens hate people like you almost as much as the modern, actually human Vietnamese love America. By actually human, I mean the ones who aren’t subversive Chinese descendants.
>>
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>>41492729
>losing 2000 planes is good
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>>41492754
>Ignoring that I called out your stupid claim of 10,000 planes
go home armatard
>>
>>41492657
>Regardless of the fact that the Iraqis are subhuman shitskins with room-temperature IQs,
Other than the "shit" part how is the average russian any different
>>
>>41492754
Most of which were Hueys flying at low altitudes.
>>
>>41492586
There’s a difference between FOC aircraft deployments where an airframe is treated as just another asset, compared to token, week-long test deployments where a single weapons test takes place.

One is a lot more impressive, both represent the current capabilities of the aircraft. Of course, you’re also failing to mention that the difference in time between first operational use of the Su-57 and F-35 is like a month.
>>
>>41492622
That is because after losing 10000 aircraft and the war to gooks supplied with semi-contemporary systems the only opponents the US has ever dared to face operated obsolete junk that has to be at the very least 10 years out of date.
>>41492657
Sorry to burst your housing bubble, but chanting USAUSAUSA won't give your pathetic excuse for an argument any more legitimacy.
>overwhelming victories against conventional foes in a contemporary setting
>in a contemporary setting
>MiG-25 and SA-2 in 1991
>contemporary setting
There we go, fatnik is at it again, lol.
>we haven’t genocided the cunts out of existence
You sure tried in Vietnam, you absolute fucking scum of the earth.
>>
>>41492814
>US has ever dared to face operated obsolete junk
Russian equipment is by definition obsolete junk. We don't fight other western-supplied nations, and China hasn't found a large export market yet. What other kind of hardware would the US go up against?
>>
>>41492693
>its always delayed
You can't claim that it's always delayed if all you have to begin with are literal estimations given to press. That's not how it works.
>The current PAKFA isn't even the supposed production model
>Ninth flyable prototype, first flight on 6 August 2017.[7] Testing version of the airframe intended for serial production.[6]
Yes, it is, retard.
>it lacks the stealth modifications
An opinion of a no-name anonymous faggot from 4chan/k/ like yourself is absolutely irrelevant.
>>
>>41492729
No, imbecile, it was 10000 aircraft. Deal with it.
>>
>>41492799
Indeed, there's a difference: one between testing aircraft performance in combat and a no-name anonymous faggot from 4chan assuming things about such a sortie.
>>
>>41492867
>helicopter
Still better than the Russian Airforce’s experiences.
>>
>>41492814
I guess the second invasion in 2003 didn’t count, huh? You fucknuts keep trying to bring up Vietnam, which happened a half century ago as if it’s still relevant to modern warfare. Communists don’t deserve rights, by the way. The North Vietnamese were savages. My aunt, who is ethnically Vietnamese, had to get airlifted out because they would’ve killed her.
>>
>>41492867
It wasn’t fag what is your source armatard?
https://web.archive.org/web/20070705113957/https://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/a_war_too_long.pdf
Unless you count helicopters which are mostly shot down at low altitudes it’s around 2,000
>>
>>41484441
>no proof
>abhinnon-down says he didn't shoot a plane down

okay poojeet
>>
>>41492855
>production models made since 2015 are now prototypes.
>russians now say they were always supposed to be prototypes.
>production dates being pushed back over and over and over
>no stealth s ducks, no stealth IRST, no RAM

I like how mad this makes you.
>>
>>41492468
This

Every single one of them.
>>
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>>41492939
I was to whip my dick and put in the Vlad's ear, shame at closer inspection someone beat me to it.
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>>41492897
3700 planes
5600 Helos
>>
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>>41491883
>>
>>41488700
220m
>>
>>41492575
>Posts link in subhuman.
>Expects anyone to understand



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