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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/world/europe/italy-gun-laws-matteo-salvini.html
>>
>people who already own guns are allowed to own more guns

Oh the horror! It's like anoda shoah!
"Journalists" seriously need to be killed, one by one.
>>
>>39916236
Fake news. AR15s have always been legal there.

Also sage, check your sources before you post.
>>
>>39916283
In 5.56x45?
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>>39916288
They're marked as .223 Remington.
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>>39916236
>Italian culture, linked in the popular imagination with fine art, fashion and good food, does not typically conjure up the image of assault weapons.

Maybe not among low-test soiboy dumbasses with no knowledge of firearms or European history.
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>>39916290
.223 and 5.56 have different ballistic and design chartaristc
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>>39916303
And different chamber dimensions. It's not safe to fire 5.56x45 through a .223 barrel.
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>>39916303
Stop.
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>>39916307
Why is that, though? I know you can get a .223 Wylde and fire 5.56 with minimal performance differences, but why can't 5.56 fire in a normal .223 barrel safely? Chamber pressures?
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>>39916288
Yes. Italy has weird gun laws on paper, in practice, they're pretty great.

>>39916290
Or .223 wylde (you can shoot bothe through that)
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>>39916301
>they don't know about the multiple Italian gun manufacturers
Liberals are too busy rewriting history to try to learn it.
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>>39916316
Yep. Some 2000-5000psi difference.
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>>39916303
The whole 223 vs 556 mess is why I don't want an AR honestly
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>>39916311
5.56 has higher velocity (if fired out of the same length barrel as a .223) and a different headspacing design among other minute differences but to call them the same round is blatantly retarded it's like calling 7.62x51 NATO and .308 the same round it's just factually wrong
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>>39916329
Get a AR rated for 5.56 and you can shoot both but you cant shoot 5.56 out of a .223 rated barrel (why the fuck would you buy a .223 barrel anyways if it has a 5.56 option)
>>
>>39916316
5.56x45 is already higher pressure than .223 Remington, but the shoulder geometry is different. This causes the 5.56x45 to not expand as much as it would in a 5.56 chamber, causing even higher pressure. If you fire a .223 Rem in a 5.56x45 chamber, you'll lose a bunch of accuracy. .223 Wylde chambers correct both these issues.

>>39916319
Beretta is literally one of the oldest family owned businesses still around. That alone should be claim enough.

>>39916329
Just get a .223 Wylde chamber and you're fine.
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>>39916330
7.62x51 and .308 aren't 100% interchangeable, but they're not unsafe to fire in each others chamber unless you're making proof .308 loads or some shit.
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>>39916330
>same round is blatantly retarded it's like calling 7.62x51 NATO and .308 the same round it's just factually wrong
For all intents and purposes they ARE the same round
>inb4 different pressure!
different testing methods yielded different results who fucking knew.
>>
>>39916318
The whole 9x21 thing must get annoying, though.
>>
>>39916236
is that picture from pimpmygun?
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>>39916347
Beretta is THE oldest active firearms manufacturer ever. Theyve been doing it over 500 years.
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>>39916398
I said businesses, not firearm manufacturers specifically. But yeah, they're ridiculously fucking old.

Also, here's some Beretta porn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_GVhxbklqo
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>>39916369
You mean 9x18?
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>>39916527
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9721mm
Italy has a rule where they aren't allowed military calibers, so pistols that normally use 9x19 are converted to 9x21 in Italy.
>>
>>39916545
This is the same stupid shit with everything they do

8mm mauser is illegal but they adjusted the rim and suddenly its not illegal anymore

5.56x45 is illegal, but 223 isn't
same with 308 vs 7.62 and literally every other gun

7.62x54mmR is illegal, but the non rimmed is not
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>>39916301
I fucking know.
>Beretta's history goes back to 1526 when they sold arquebus barrels to the Republic of Venice
I don't understand the hate Italy gets on this board. Ironic that we get more love on fucking /pol/ than here, where I'd expect to find people that know about military history beyond pop culture memes
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Now no one will touch my spaghett.
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>>39916563
I respect Italian engineers, but the military leadership is pretty fucking stupid sometimes.
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>>39916607
Well, as an italian engineer, thanks.
Stereotypes about us often die off when people meet us, or talk to us. Italy just doesn't like being under the spotlight too much
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>>39916307
>>39916316
>>39916347
They actually don't have different chamber dimensions anymore as any gun made in the last 30 years that is ".223" is just a 5.56 chamber. You really only have to worry about older Mini 14s.

There is also actually no difference between .223 and 5.56 by CIP specs, but yet again SAAMI fucks up and lets shit like this through. Seriously, as someone who enjoys milsurp, fuck SAAMI.
>>
>>39916652
You can blame ALL of the hate Italy gets on /k/ on Italian military leadership, especially Cadorna.
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>>39916705
Of course Cadorna was an idiot, everybody in Italy knows that. We always had problems with masonry and politics infiltrating the high ranks of the military. But we had good commanders nonetheless: Diaz, Reverberi, Messe... it all depends how deep you want to get into history
>>
>>39916656
I cannot imagine a modern gun being made that can't fire both purely due to lawyers existing.
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>>39916779

Eh. Italian laws aren't bad, they are simply utterly retarded. Imagine a Fascist framework mangled by 80 years of lawmakers that don't know jack shit about the subject randomly making changes.

Thus, you can keep for example 1500 rounds of 7,62x54r rounds because they are "hunting ammo" while max 200 .22LR because you don't hunt with them. Italian laws are a mess, but they aren't bad. Simply a mess.

>>39916283

Italy has better laws than California. Not even joking. Sure, you don't get carry laws, but bar some specific hellholes you don't need 'em. We aren't France. Also Italy is like....what, one of the last 4-5 Euro nations with still a gun manufacturing capability up? What's left, Czechland, Austria, the krauts, waffles and us? Not counting Eastern Euros, they had the commies forcing them to keep their gunmaking capabilities up.
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>>39916828
>Italy has better laws than California. Not even joking. Sure, you don't get carry laws, but bar some specific hellholes you don't need 'em.
>we can't carry guns but we're still better
nice Euro cope
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>>39916301
Holy fuck. Imagine being this hugboxed your entire life.
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>>39916828
>You don't hunt with .22
Sure you do. Lots of small mammals are best taken with .22's!
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>>39916545
>your guns won't protect you from the government! they have tanks and planes!
>but let's make your guns incompatible with the government's ammo just in case
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>>39916741
>We always had problems with masonry
I dunno, your roads and aqueducts seem to last a hell of a long time
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>>39916828
>can only own a small amount of ammunition
>no carry licenses
>apparently can't own military calibers so you have to own bullshit 9x21mm pistols
>you can get .223 but not 5.56mm
>just recently allowed to own an ar15 in 2018
How are you better than California again? Your country houses Beretta, can you even own the firearm in pic related?
>>
>>39916281
One by one is too slow for them. They need air raids.
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>>39916356
Would love for you to try and fire any average to high power .308 and cartridge out of a 7.62x51 barrel and see what happens
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>>39917427
Apparently you either don't own a .308 or you are a moron
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>>39917409
who is that
>>
>>39916236
congratulations, wopbros
enjoy your new freedoms
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>>39916828
>we arent france

you will be.

>>39917112
>>
whats more stereotypical? a boot eyetalian with a SxS shorty or a smg? disregard american italian stereo types. boot only stereotypes.
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>>39917409
>can you even own the firearm in pic related?
More europeans own beretta semi shotguns than burgers.
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>>39916356
For "MOST" intents and purposes they are the same round.

SOME rifles are chambered in 7.62x51 NATO and you SHOULD NOT FIRE .308 in them.

MOST of them are fine.

And generally, .308 ARE higher pressure, not just because of testing differences. But most 7.62 chambered rifles are fine for it. Most. Some, you'd wanna be careful
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>>39916828
>Better laws then California
No, you don’t. You’re on par with Jew York city, or NJ, at best.
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>>39916828
The best part is that there is not cap on the size of the caliber.
Basically I could technically buy myself an Anzio in 20mm if I find an importer.
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>>39916236

THE TIDE IS TURNING BROS

BASED ITALY GONNA REMOVE KEBAB FROM PREMISES
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>>39917409
>>>just recently allowed to own an ar15 in 2018

No true, assault rifles have always been legal here.

>How are you better than California again?

don't you have that law that cap gun magazines at 10 round max in Cali?
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>>39916301

>what is the Godfather and every Italian Gangster movie

hmmmmmmmmmm
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Can we get some Anchovy up in here?
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>>39916236
fucking based
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>>39917899

Salvini is soft chocking them. Removing most of the gibs for illegal immigrants and also legal ones.

I am still waiting for the deportations he promised, but I am confident...we only need a small happening, even old commies are with us.
>>
>>39917878
Yeah, we don't have any out here in Canada, either. Though when you get into the really large calibers, you find that most of the rounds available on the international market are incendiary and that's pretty iffy in most countries. What you see a lot of is fully machined 14.5x114mm projectiles. Imagine the possibilities for AP!

Also, PTRS = SKS's older brother.
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>>39917922
Spaghetti alla Putanesca is fucking 10/10 stuff.
>>
Congratulations italbros.
We don't get victories very often here in Europe.
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>>39918019
Puttanesca*
FML
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>>39916288
>>39916290
>>39916303
>>39916307
>>39916311
>>39916316
>>39916318
>>39916328
>>39916329
>>39916330
>>39916341
>>39916347
>>39916356
>>39916554
>>39916656
M193 (the original 5.56mm cartridge) was just a round of .223 Remington loaded with ball propellant to bridge the gap between 20 and 22 inch barrels. SAAMI 223 chambers will have no trouble running M193 or M196. The issue of pressure does not arise until you start running 62+ grain NATO loads like M855, M856, MK 262, M855A1, etc.
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>>39917427
Nothing would happen.
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>>39917496
>SOME rifles are chambered in 7.62x51 NATO and you SHOULD NOT FIRE .308 in them.
You can't name a single rifle susceptible to this. 308 pressures are NOT greater than 7.62x51.

My FAL is in 7.62 and I run all sorts of 308 all day fucking long. It literally doesn't matter.
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>>39917493
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>>39918929
Actually, a lot of conversions have to be babied because they essentially inserted a fake chamber in the barrel and it can flame-cut at the throat, causing failure.
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>>39918953
>so yea some shit was made like garbage therefore 308 is higher pressure than 7.62 even though SAAMI test methods are garbage and tested them differently.
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>>39916329
Just about every AR on the market, even the bargain bin ones are chambered for 5.56. In 5.56 you can shoot both with no issues.

One of the few semi autos that is specifically a .223 only rifle and this is an issue with are some of the higher end target model Mini 14s. They are marked for .223 and .223 only
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>>39919009
I can't think of a single AR that can't shoot 223 and 5.56
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>>39916329
That and you're a poorfag nogunz. Sorry that hipoint doesn't make ARs
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>>39919009
The Mini 14 had no trouble running M200 tracer during the production of Starship Troopers
>>
I have never heard of a 7.62x51mm gun that can't shoot 308.
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>>39919092
M14 and its derivatives
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>>39919118
lol no, I shoot 308 out of my m1a all fucking day
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>>39919118
You are fucking dumb and you should just stop posting. pic related my cucked new york compliant M1A and I shoot 168gr FGMM 308 all fucking day.
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>>39919092
Doesn't exist. Functionally no difference. The .308 is usually loaded a bit hotter than the rounds from across the pond but nothing over the psi/bar rating of any weapon I can think of.
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>>39916236
>Mamma mia! It's annuda Pompeii-a!
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>>39916290

so sad to see the italians are getting a gimped round to use in glorious AR15, feel bad for you anon
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>>39916828
They ban 5.56 and 7.62x51, however .223 and .308 are legal in Italy.

some don't make sense, then you get this. i get it is meant to ban the military shit, but use fudd guns... just regulating ammo on this level though is retarded

also, can confirm italy has better gun laws than cali
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>>39919132
Lookin' mighty deadly for a ny fag
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>>39916283
This.
>>
cuck Anthony bourdain eating shit in Italy. wops take our their guns. its all slav shit.

disappointing.
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>>39919066
From what I have seen, the only minis these have issues are the ones that are the most expensive target ones that ruger sells. Standard minis and AC556 are 5.56 chambered
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>>39919066
Guy that worked with my brother has one. He wanted a super accurate semi auto rifle... so he got this (pic attached).

Yes I was not able to hold my poker face and laughed quite hard bender style.
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>>39920312
>Implying Anthony Doorhang already wasn't a cuck unironically
>>
>>39920221
>Fabarm
What is that? Looks interesting.
>>
>>39919132
What's cucked about it?
>>
What are the specific situations of gun laws in most European countries?

I can't recall off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there's a large image occasionally posted here that details certain guns that argues that even semi-autos are legal, with strict licenses.
>>
>>39919132
Why did you not get this model? At least it would look like FN49/MAS44 style early autoloader instead of a looking like it was circumcised.
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>>39916301
>Pietta
>Uberti
>Beretta
NYT is high school paper tier.
>>
>>39916236
who cares? They're not white
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We have our fair share of retarded gun laws:
>No 9x19 for handguns so we have to use 9x21
>No 5.56 or 7.62x51 Nato so we can only have .223 or .308
>No silencers
>Set amount of ammo that we can own
>Paperwork to fill when you buy ammo/guns

Aside from that I would say that our gun laws are good:
>No SBS/SBR restrictions
>You can buy basically whatever you want (article is bullshit, buying an AR has never been a problem)
>Neat Italian guns like Matebas, SPAS 12 or 15 etc. can be found relatively easily and don't cost an arm and a leg
>>
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>>39918024
too bad the article is literal fake news, the only good thing that happened is that they doubled the unregistered mag cap and "sporting weapon" ownership cap, the rest either hasn't changed (such as being able to own scary-looking guns in the first place) or got worse (need club subscription for registered mags and modern milsurp, license validity reduced to 5 years, etc.)
>tfw your country's most pro-gun judge even whined to the EU Parliament about the new law because not enough shit got banned
>>
>>39918892
Based mass reply anon
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>>39917409
>finger on the trigger
>>
>>39922591
>>no SBS/SBR restrictions
they kinda did with the new A8 category bullshit, though for now according to the BNP they're safe as long as the barrel is under 30 cm (11.811" for Americans) or the overall length is 60 cm with the stock folded
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>>39922591
>ammo limit
How do they know how many rounds you have? I get it that there is a limit on how many you could buy in a year or something, but what is to prevent you from storing it and buying more after the time runs up?
>>
>>39916369
>>39916545
from what I hear, that law has been lifted.

t. sister married and italian and my new brother in law shoots.
>>
>>39923178
basically every dealer is required to tell the police how much ammo/gunpowder you bought, but whether the limit is on buying ammo or how much you can own at any given time pretty much comes down to how much of an asshole your local prefect is

>>39923549
it has for revolvers (or at least the BNP let Taurus sell a 9mm one on our market) but good luck getting anything else, and even then you'll have to find someone stocking it without being v& by the police afterwards
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>>39916303
>AR15's are illegal!
>no they are not
>they are in this one specific caliber!
>ok
>PAY ATTENTION TO ME GUYS THIS IS IMPORTANT
>...
>>
>>39922496
Because there's no difference between those models.
>>
How prevalent are AK's in Italy? They are prohibited by name in my Country.
>>
>>39924340

Cheaper than in the US, mostly categorized as hunting or sporting weapons depending on the maker. A Norinco can go for 500 bucks, a DDR one 800, a Dragunov 1300 eurobucks.

Sure, in theory 30 rounds mags aren't allowed, but everyone and their cats have 'em. 29 rounds mags are "legal" for some models if registered, but it's again messy and retarded.

The only problems are ammo (more expensive than in the US and eyetalians have roughly half to one third of the US median income) and no full autos, ever.
>>
>>39922673

Tbh, we dodged a bullet with the new laws, completely ignoring the new EU retardation bar for A8. Mori was butthurt because his proposal (a incredibly shitty law built to fuck milsurp collectors in the ass) was ignored by everyone.

Good fucking riddance, he's very knowledgeable but he's also a Forza Italia stooge, and they are anti-gun.
>>
You know, I bet Austria/Hungary/Czechia/Romania/etc would probably let Italy into the cool kids club and just fuck off out of the EU as a whole.
>>
>>39924483
>AKs
>hunting
>after 2015
ok Saviano

>>39924526
to be fair I'm not sure why the gun community ever expected anything from him and his party
>>
>>39917398
freemasonry* come on
>>
>>39917930
at this point I don't care about deportations. the new laws about immigration are good enough. Now I just want them to go back to our own currency. Niggers are just a distraction.
>>
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>>39922591
gawd damn that is one ugly gun the one at the top, the more I look at it the uglier it gets, it is soo ugly it is starting to grow on me, I now want said gun
>>
>>39917493
>benelli
>>
>>39917910
Larger cap magazine ban is on hold pending a court challenge.
>>
>>39927072
ARX100. By Beretta. Italiano is representing. Knock yourself out. Prices are all over the place, btw.
>>
>>39928058
Did they fix the issue with some mags being tight?
>>
>>39922247
Fabbrica Bresciana Armi S.p.A
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>>39922591
Man I can't fucking wait until they start selling the STF12 here.
1 thing though, can you take the retarded muzzle brake off?
>>
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>>39920221
I'm actually impressed, Mario.
>>
>>39924483
>>39920221
>no full autos ever
What's the story with the M16A1 with a clearly visible pin above the selector?
>>
>>39922398
>ammo
No Bayo lug, No flash suppressor, Probably annon has a 10 rnd pr less mag. Possibly it's straight pull
>>
>>39929528
in Europe we have a category called "demilitarized weapons" (it's called A6 now iirc), which are basically surplus full-fun guns but the selector has been made inoperable
with the last law they made them a pain to get though with "high capacity mags" (basically anything holding more than 10 or 20 rounds depending on barrel length) making the gun illegal the moment you put one in, even if you have a sports shooter exeption to own said guns and mags in the first place
>>
>>39916283
This. In fact one of the Colt 601 prototypes with the bakelite furniture ended up in a private collection in Italy since it was illegal to re-import into the US.

http://weaponsman.com/?p=4958
>>
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with a sport permit in italy you can own 3 rifle 5 handgun and all the shotgun you want.
this permit do not allow you to carry your weapon, you can transport it but in a gun box closed with key.
in order to get this permit, after the law enforcement criminal record check, you have to do a class at your nearby gun association and the final exam is shot 20 shotgun shells and 20 9x21 round on a paper target.
using a weapon detenuted with a sport permit can be used in order to defend himself in your home, the trial for self defense in italy can turn bad due the comunist judge and public prosecutor.
>>
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Italian first order of business would be getting people to fuck again.
>>
>>39919092
The "controversy" comes from the fact that some 7.62 machine guns have looser headspace to prevent stoppages with shitty bulk ammo. I think the idea is that running hot hunting loads through them will damage the neck, and if you reload without checking tolerances you might blow out your brass. I've never heard of it actually being a problem though, and apparently neither has anyone else.
>>
>>39919409
.223 Rem is literally 5.56 though?
>>
>>39916563
really like the centauro.
does it fully replace tanks for our homeland terrain, or is it something fundamentally different?
>>
>>39931089
you fucked up the weapon ownership caps, they're actually as follows:
>12 "sporting" guns (pistols, SBRs, SBSs, scary-looking weapons, etc.), used to be 6 until a few months ago
>3 "common" weapons (air rifles, shotguns bigger than 12ga, shit the BNP couldn't be assed to classify properly, and now even modern milsurp), the mags are restricted to 10 (used to be 5 until the last law)
>8 antique or unique firearms (basically BP or guns that used to belong to someone important)
>no limit on "hunting" weapons (basically any long gun but as of 2015 it can't be scary-looking), the mags are gimped to 5 for rifles and 2+1 for shotguns (plus triple barrel shotguns are only allowed if one of the barrels is rifled)
>you need to register all weapons (including daggers, swords, bayonets, knuckle dusters, etc.), all rifle mags holding more than 10 rounds and all pistol mags holding more than 20
>>
>>39931096

I thought one of the reigning stereotypes of Italian men since the mid-Sixties was that they were bronzed, Jesus-haired sex gods that charmed tourist women, rode Vespas, and drove fancy boats.
>>
>>39929392
Yup, it is sold with an extended threaded choke to mount the brake and one that doesn't stick out of the barrel. I think that the brake fits the shotgun's design really well.
>>
>>39931170
Then again if you're shooting a machine gun I've never heard of someone loading 308 into a belt to feed to said machine gun. I was always under the impression that m80 you buy in a box is just delinked machine gun ammo.
>>
>>39931249
We still fuck your women.
>>
>>39931198

Air guns are mostly sporting weapons tho. But as usual, it's an ungodly mess and it changes depending on who you ask, where you are, and when you ask.

>>39928058

Why we had to have the ARX. I mean, italian service rifles are mediocre by nature, but goddamn AKs are more fun to shoot than the ARX. How's that even possible

>>39931096
>>39931249

Eh, happens when you have to wait until 35 to marry 'cause shit income, insane rents and most of the women are kinda sorta bonkers. And the stereotype now works against Itas, when you travel around sometimes you get the leper treatment 'cause every female thinks itas are Mario-speaking black-skinned drooling harassers. In be4re "how can you be Italian you are white"
>>
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>>39916369
Not really... the market for 9x21mm is big enough for us to have all the cool guns and reasonably priced ammo, well accounting that our ammo limits also makes the ammo market quite restricted so... we'll never have the "bulks" and price will be always high anyway. That's why every serious pistol shooter reloads. I do. Pic related - we're talking 4€/50 hard cast instead of 12€/50 FMJ sellier & bellot.

>>39916283
Also this guy here. My only big regret is that we still don't have a domestic AR from a major manufacturer, dammit. And beretta can keep that shitty overpriced and fat ARXplastic for me.
>>
>>39931249
You need 3+ children per couple for it to matter, though.
>>
>>39922673
I feel for you man, for us here in croatia they removed the 5 year validity of licences and its a one time thing now, with no ammo cap and you can own 100 round mags, but if you put that mag in a gun, you can lose your licence and guns.

Also anyone here familiar with buying guns acrss EU borders, i wanna get a VZ-58 but there arent any retailers in ny country.
>>
>>39932723
I don't know about buying in other countries but according to CZ's website there's this licensed dealer called Lovac trgovina in Croatia (http://www.lovactrgovina.hr, can't speak Croatian so I can't help you any further than this), have you tried contacting them first?
I think you can probably order one from them
>>
>>39932723
Does your country have a registering program?
I may or may not have smuggled gats for low prices and then just went "look Goverment I found this gat that must have belonged to my grandfather thanks 4 letting me have it k thnks bye"



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