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So in the end these were all entirely pointless, right? I've been researching them quite a bit going all the way back to the early Kingdom of Scotland warring with Angles before and after they consolidated into the Kingdom of England, as well as the main Wars of Independence and later conflicts between the 2 kingdoms (such as the Battle of Flodden).

In total somewhere in the region of 500 thousand to 1 million died from pure combat alone over the course of just under 1000 years, nevermind sackings and massacres and disease/famine brought about by conflicts between the 2. And at the end of it all it took to conquer Scotland and pacify it was to basically let it experience a financial meltdown among its elite and then bribe them to sell out a 1000 year old country.

On the one hand I look at Scotland with utter pity and contempt, but on the other I wonder why the fuck it took England 1000 years to utterly neutralize this paltry, pathetic threat/bad stench to its north.

I can only assume England did not want to absorb such a pitiful and contemptible people into its realm? But then history would suggest they loved absorbing subhumans as was the case with the Welsh and Irish.

Why are Brits so retarded and subhuman?
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Born in the 16th century, Tarkus was a member of the Tudor Dynasty and a retainer of Mary Stuart. After losing his relatives in previous wars, the young Tarkus was brought up as Mary Stuart's knight and trained his body for that sole purpose. At the same time, Tarkus became attached to Mary. Alongside his fellow retainer Bruford, the two being of five in history to succeed it, Tarkus passed the Challenge of the 77 Rings in 1563.

Eventually, when Mary was imprisoned by her political rival Queen Elizabeth, Bruford and Tarkus fought the queen's army until she offered Mary's release in return for their surrender. But on the day they of their execution as enemies of the Crown, Bruford and Tarkus learned from their executioner that Mary was already killed before they gave into the queen's demands. Tarkus was livid to hear that Elizabeth deceived them into giving up their lives for nothing and cursed her in his dying breath, rumors saying that his neck became so rigid from anger that several axes broke before he was beheaded. The story of Bruford and Tarkus was passed down and became famous in England
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>>6918433

Scotsman here, Mary I was objectively our worst ruler in our entire history and a gigaslut roasty. The Stuarts in general were just garbage for Scotland, the early ones weren't so bad but the later ones, particularly Mary and he bastard son, were what effectively killed Scotland.
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>>6918430
>the main Wars of Independence
Not really pointless, obviously Scotland would have remained an English vassal had they lost, and under a different dynasty of kings
>And at the end of it all it took to conquer Scotland and pacify it was to basically let it experience a financial meltdown among its elite and then bribe them to sell out a 1000 year old country.
Sell out? James inherited England
>I wonder why the fuck it took England 1000 years to utterly neutralize this paltry, pathetic threat/bad stench to its north
Easier said than done, and they weren’t always trying
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>>6918459
>Sell out? James inherited England

And visited Scotland once in his entire life after moving his court to England. His line was also removed from the throne by the English a few generations later, lol.

You're an utterly pathetic, deluded, servile people.
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>>6918463
I’m not Scottish you tard, I was just pointing out that James legally inherited England
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>>6918433
fuck off back to /a/ jojofag
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>>6918459
>obviously Scotland would have remained an English vassal had they lost, and under a different dynasty of kings

So like Ireland? Which exists today as a sovereign state and clearly distinct people that has managed to retain and foster its own unique culture?

>>6918459
>Easier said than done

Well clearly not if all it took was bribing some Scottish nobles after they suffered an economic meltdown due to a failed colonial venture, this is what largely paved the way for the Treaty of Union and ended Scotland as a distinct and sovereign entity.
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>>6918477
>clearly distinct people
>foster it's own culture
English speaking, pink-skinned, alcoholic Island dwellers doesnt sound like a very unique culture desu
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>>6918487
>have their own language (whether ceremonial or not it's more than you have)
>have their own mythology
>have their own gods
>have their own clearly recognizable surnames
>are actually a sovereign state

Ireland is pretty solidified as a people/entity for the foreseeable future. Scotland, on the other hand, is a mere region of England to the rest of the world, regardless of how much you delude yourselves in your little insular British bubble you live in.
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>>6918477
>Well clearly not if all it took was bribing some Scottish nobles after they suffered an economic meltdown due to a failed colonial venture,
No, what it took was James Stuart inheriting the crown of England
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>>6918497
>No, what it took was James Stuart inheriting the crown of England

This was the Union of the Crowns, the Treaty of Union (where Scotland ceased to exist as an entity and became a region of the Kingdom of Great Britain) took place 100 years later. After James inherited England etc. Scotland continued to exist as a sovereign kingdom, they were merely in a monarchal union (in the sense of the Kalmar Union in Scandinavia), not a political one.
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>>6918497
>No, what it took was James Stuart inheriting the crown of England

This wasn't some "win" for Scotland, it was the exact opposite. Your kingdom did not "take over" England. Your king merely abandoned you and never returned there again, boasting to people about ruling you with the pen. And like I said anyway that line was removed from the throne and given to William of Orange a few generations later, lol.

But you still remained England's bitch/garden province.
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>>6918517
I never said any of what you’re saying I said. I’m not Scottish
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>>6918545

Okay fair, enough, my apologies. I just see Scottish people saying things like this constantly, they are truly deluded people.

Where are you from anyway?
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>>6918557
Canada
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>>6918565

Are you interested in Scottish history particularly?
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>>6918574
Somewhat yes
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>>6918579

What periods interest you the most? For me I tend to hone in one the early Medieval/post-Roman period, so the kind of 5 way battleground between Picts, Gaels, Britons, Angles and Norse that took place in Scotland following the collapse of Rome as well as the gradual emergence of the Kingdom of Scotland onwards.

I begin to lose interest around the later Medieval period when you start heading into the Union of the Crowns onwards.
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>>6918591
For me, it’s the high to late medieval period, though I start to lose interest by the time of James I. The wars of succession/ independence really interest me
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>>6918681

Did you like Outlaw King? I felt it was a little overemotional in parts but generally it was what Braveheart should have been, at least aesthetically. Also wasn't a huge fan of the cliche "Scots were for the people and the English were all barbarous war fetishists" trope, but it was quite a fun movie overall.
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>>6918691
Oh yeah i liked it quite a bit. And appreciated it’s (most of the time) accuracy. I’m hoping more medieval movie in general are made like it. And who knows, there is apparently a four hour extended cut of the movie out there somewhere
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>>6918711
>And appreciated it’s (most of the time) accuracy

It really was surprisingly accurate, it just dramatized it but I guess that's expected there has to be some exceptions. I was also a tiny bit disappointed with the Battle of Loudon Hill, Scotish armies during these wars were mainly schiltrons/spearmen rigidly defending and butchering waves coming at them. I'm not sure the grand melee it descended into was quite accurate.

It was really defensive warfare and I guess the movie felt they had to throw in a brutal, bloody melee, but for me this came at the expense of showing what actually won the Scots the wars in the end which was discipline, tactical superiority and mobility/knowledge of terrain.

Also feel they could have thrown in an extra major battle or raid as there was a lot of meandering about and pointless scenes, but who knows maybe it's planned as a trilogy or something, which would be amazing.

>there is apparently a four hour extended cut of the movie out there

That's amazing, hope it surfaces sometime soon.
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>>6918775
Yeah, the battle was a little off, especially since the Scottish army isn’t even uphill lol. And I wasn’t to big on Edward II fighting Bruce personally behind the lines. I get that it makes sense narratively in the movie as a callback to the opening, but it did feel a little drawn out, and of course he wasn’t even at that battle.
>That's amazing, hope it surfaces sometime soon.
Yeah same here, all that’s been revealed to be in the cut was Robert meeting William Wallace in a forest
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>>6918808

The worst part about that was Bruce defeating him and then just letting him go, lol. It was absolutely ludicrous and preposterous but since the rest of the movie was so enjoyable I give these little issues a pass.

The entire depiction of Edward II was quite annoying as, according to history, he was actually quite reluctant to assume the mantle of kingship and was quite a generous and friendly person who treated his subjects with respect.
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>>6918775
not the dude you're talking to but I have a question about a scene from the movie

in the part where the Scots are all camped out in the forest with a million campfires, did they really get completely fucking surprised by the English? did they really not have one fucking dude on guard duty?
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>>6918430
Kill yourself, animal.
The Anglo-Brythonic man is above you.
God save Scotland, God save England, God save Britain.
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>>6918936

They did, yeah, the Battle of Methven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Methven

Basically Bruce at this point was naive as fuck and assumed everyone would adhere to the codes of honor and chivalry as he intended to. He did not place pickets around the camp and they were ambushed in the night and near annihilated.

After that he went full guerilla warlord and took the country piece by piece.
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>>6918943
>The Anglo-Brythonic man
And what the fuck exactly is an Anglo-Brythonic man, lol?

>God save Scotland
Agreed, but Scotland needs to save itself first.

>God save England
Neutral on this, I wish you well as I would any other foreign country I am fond of.

>God save Britain
As long as Scotland is not a part of it, again neutral and wish you well.
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>>6918949
what a doofus
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>>6918970

Yeah, it was a bad one. And cost him several thousand well equipped men. But maybe if this hadn't happened he would never have resorted to the guerilla tactics which actually won Scotland the overall war.

Things like that can fill certain kinds of men with an iron resolve, really entrench them in their ways, I guess from this point on Bruce autistically set about routing the English from Scotland and even invading/raiding England and Ireland.

It became his own personal crusade, so to speak.
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>>6918961
>And what the fuck exactly is an Anglo-Brythonic man, lol?
Anglo (Anglo-Saxon descent) -Brythonic (Pre-Anglo-Saxon British descent)
Anglo-Saxon ancestry ranges from 5-35% all over Britain, and even the Welsh, Scottish, and Irish have Anglo-Saxon ancestry.
>As long as Scotland is not a part of it, again neutral and wish you well.
Fuck you. Union forever.
We are one people. One nation.
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>>6918979
>We are one people

Where does that kind of reasoning end. Are all Europeans one people? Are all humans one people? That's just silly.

Fuck yourself, lol.

>Anglo (Anglo-Saxon descent) -Brythonic (Pre-Anglo-Saxon British descent)
Anglo-Saxon ancestry ranges from 5-35% all over Britain, and even the Welsh, Scottish, and Irish have Anglo-Saxon ancestry.

I didn't deny Scotland had a hefty Germanic contribution to its culture/genetics? Even in places where Celtic culture/language survived into the early modern period there was massive Norse influence and impact.

Scotland is as Germanic as it is Celtic. But Brythonic was merely one of the 3 Celtic peoples that inhabited Scotland and Angles were merely one of a few Germanic peoples to inhabit Scotland.
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>>6918986
It ends when the genetic and cultural differences get much bigger than the ones between Scotland and England.
You're a fucking retard redditor.
The Union will never die, go suck a fat cock.
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>>6918990
>The Union will never die

The Union is a mere 300 years old and already died partially when Ireland left it around 100 years ago, lol. The Union most certainly will die, as it's an artificial, supranational entity which has never managed to eradicate the national blocs (Scotish, English etc.) which formed it.

>It ends when the genetic and cultural differences get much bigger than the ones between Scotland and England.

Why? Seems rather arbitrary. What's your exact calculation for whether a people are genetically/culturally similar enough to be distinct entities or not, lol?

The majority of Scotish people identify as Scotish only (62% according to the 2011 census) and consider the Union to be a political agreement of convenience/mutual benefit. When it becomes inconvenient they want nothing to do with it as most polls regarding independence showed.
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>>6918990

I don't want to be a region of your country, man, don't take it personally, lol. I like you, I like your history. But if I had a gun to my head forcing me to choose a country for Scotland to be a region of England would not even be top of the list.

I'd take a union with Bugerland or Germany or something before I took one with England.
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>>6918990

As you can see here. They were given the options to select 'Scotish AND British' as well as numerous other choices. It's interesting to see that even areas like Shetland and Orkney are comfortably majority Scotish only, even though they were given the option to identify as Shetlandic or Orcadian only as well.

There were polls conducted before 2014 too which showed 65% of Scots would vote for independence if it made them £500 a year richer, lol.

Sadly we're pragmatic to an autistic degree at times and have little value for concepts like sovereignty. But it also shows people here have almost zero respect for any kind of British identity or unified ethnic/national British idea.
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>>6919007
The Scottish are Scottish, as the English are English. And both are British.
People aren't honest when they answer these things.
>>6919012
>your country
Our country, Britain. Scotland isn't a region of England, they're both regions of Britain.
>>6919033
So what? Just because people fall for shit like Braveheart and say this crap doesn't mean they really believe it.
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>>6919078
>So what? Just because people fall for shit like Braveheart and say this crap doesn't mean they really believe it.

Yes, identifying as Scotish is "falling for shit like Braveheart" but identifying as British is some totally different thing utterly untied to emotion or such, right?

>Our country, Britain. Scotland isn't a region of England, they're both regions of Britain.

Britain is not my country, Scotland is. Britain is England in the same way the Soviet Union was Russia. I like England, I truly do as I said. But I don't want my country to be a part of it and I don't want to be a citizen of it myself. Sorry, pal :)
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>>6919078
>People aren't honest when they answer these things.

When are people honest then, oh great peruser of truths and untruths. Amazing the audacity and delusions of grandeur you must possess to stand there and claim people's ethnic/national allegiances are only accurate and true when they fit your ideal or what you think of them.

A lot of people in Scotland have absolutely no loyalty or emotional attachment to the UK or British identity, this is just a fact, man. I can only assume you've never been here if you genuinely believe there aren't people here with zero attachment to or identification with the UK.

And this detachment is only increasing more and more with the younger generations. In fact true notions of a British identity only seems to survive in the elder generations.
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>>6919078

I'll be honest with you, man. Obviously my leanings are clear but I can pretty much guarantee the second referendum will result in a vote for independence. It's just the same pattern as devolution. Initially rejected by voters in Scotland then voted in favor of a couple of years later. I know my own people, I know our history. I don't honestly think we should get a second chance at voting for independence but for whatever reason fate will afford us that.

So it's coming around 2020 or 2021. It's going to be very different this time and hilariously your own media is going to be unofficially in favor of it due to the EU shit.

You can just tell by the way the BBC is framing it all now, everything Scotland related. They're constantly shilling stuff that makes an independent Scotland look extremely enticing and appealing to the uninformed.
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>>6918448
KEK, imagine losing your independence.

t. Portuguese
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>>6918495
Forseeable future, seriously? Almost the entirety of Britain will be repopulated by South Asians if current trends continue. What bubble are you in?
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>>6919240

True, man. I've always said it was a tragedy Scotland didn't do with England what Portugal did with Spain.

>>6919244
> Almost the entirety of Britain will be repopulated by South Asians

Well yeah obviously. Wasn't really thinking about that.
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>>6919287
Perhaps it was for the better, seeing as you two went on to rule the world and establish an empire and dominance for your people which we continue to see the fruits of today.

Unfortunately for us due to the Castillian nobility's incompetence and arrogance our union never worked out and did far more harm than good for the Portuguese empire but I imagine if the union did flourish then we would have truly 1st world Iberian countries existing today that are not full of Mestizos (no offence to them).
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>>6918448
Not like Mary or James did anything by themselves though
As soon as she pops out a kid she gets kicked out of the country and baby James gets ruled by the local nobles until he lucks into the English crown because his aunt refused to open her legs, then he gets ruled by English Parliament.
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>>6919321

True but it basically set in motion the process by which Scotland was liquidated and ceased to exist. It was all Mary who started the bullshit of a Kingdom of Great Britain and shit, it just bled into faggot James the Retard who unironically wrote a book about demon hunting.

>>6919312

No because to the world, as you well know, it's all just England and always will be. Instead of Scotland having a smaller empire built alongside England's huge empire, we will just always be remembered as the Ukraine of the United Kingdom, and nobody fucking remembers Ukraine or considers Soviet achievements to be Ukrainian achievements.
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>>6919330
it's pretty impressive how Scotland, where the Stewarts come from, becomes the lesser partner in the union of Engand and Scotland under a Stewart king
"Wisest fool in Christendom" indeed
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>>6919338
>it's pretty impressive how Scotland, where the Stewarts come from, becomes the lesser partner in the union of Engand and Scotland under a Stewart king

No that's quite understandable as he literally gave not a single fuck about Scotland and was glad to see the back of it. What's more fitting of his title is how his family somehow managed to get themselves overthrown and even beheaded due to their immense unpopularity among their new English subjects.

And that was without even trying to Jew Scotland into some hierarchically superior parasitic position within this new union. Can you imagine if he'd actually tried to do that as well?
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>>6919330
Feelsverybadman :( but I don't think that's exactly the case, especially to those who are historically literate. But even growing up I was well aware of Scotland's contribution to the British empire. It is of course called the British empire and not the English empire, after all.
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>>6919353
>especially to those who are historically literate.

But almost nobody is. Dude it's just reality. People use Russia as shorthand for the USSR, people use England as shorthand for the UK. The USSR spoke Russian. It unofficially cherished and promoted Russian culture and imperialism.

It's the way it's always been and always has been. And correcting them just makes you seem petty and hostile so I actually don't even bother telling people England is not the same as the UK anymore when they say "Oh you're from England" after I tell them I'm from Scotland.

It's just what people know the UK as around the world. You can get pissed off about it and fly into an impotent rage or you can just accept it or do something about it.
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>>6918430
scots are trully subhuman
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>>6919899

Most Brits are to be perfectly honest.
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>>6919901
the islanders from Man are decent sometimes
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>>6919922

Doubt this severely. Most of them are of Scotish and Norse mixed descent anyway.
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>>6919932
they keep peoples money safe from dirty socialist governaments
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>>6919938

Hahaha, sure. That they do. Jersey and Guernsey too though, right?
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>>6919941
don´t know, too much of a poorfag to be able to evade taxes, they get to my money even before me, maybe i should start selling drugs
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>>6919947

Why not. Impossible to make omelette without cracking a few eggs,amirite?
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>>6919952
that´s right nigga

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAW-AMsml-s
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>>6918495
>>have their own language (whether ceremonial or not it's more than you have)
Scots Gaelic exists, it's also as commonly spoken as Irish
>>have their own mythology
Hurr durr that applies to Scotland too you idiot, but that's also irrelevant when most of Ireland was totally Christianized and being Roman Catholic became such a big cornerstone of being Irish and Irish nationhood
>>have their own gods
Again, Catholics
>>have their own clearly recognizable surnames
So does Scotland you idiot. Sinclair, MacDonald, McKidd, Sutherland, etc. Are stereotypically Scottish names. Yes, Scotland has Anglo surnames like Smith or Davies, but so does Ireland
>>are actually a sovereign state
True. But not being sovereign doesnt mean that Quebecois culture or Tyrolean cultures dont exist either.
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>>6918961
>And what the fuck exactly is an Anglo-Brythonic man, lol?
Most of England basically. Culturally Germanic Anglos, but genetically still largely the same as their Celtic and even pre-Celtic ancestors
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>>6920511

Okay but Scotland isn’t that at all? So what is weird pro British anon smoking?
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>>6920558
Lowland Scotland had some Anglo settlement (Scots was a Germanic language after all), added with Germanic influenced Calvinism and Norse-Germanic settlement in the north and western isles and you could argue that Scotland is a Germanic-Celtic synthesis culture, kinda like England (albeit England was much more thoroughly germanified)
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>>6918430
It is absolutely not possible that 1 million people died in combat between two irrelevant pre-industrial kingdoms you fucking idiot.
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>>6920650
>irrelevant
Not the most important, but England was not irrelevant either. Capturing Paris, capturing the French king, major participation in the third crusade, relevant enough to participate in Iberian politics (alliance with Portugal), etc. England clearly had some degree of relevancy within Europe.
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>>6920632

Yes but little of the Celtic culture pre-Germanics in Scotland was Brythonic. It was overwhelmingly Pictish (who themselves clearly had significant Germanic influence of some kind as evidenced by their runestones and falconry) and Goidelic. I also don’t think it was significantly more Germanified. Scotland was and is pretty fucking Germanic.

They’re different cultures though. Scotland had very little Saxon, Jutish and Danish influence as England did. Its Germanic influence was overwhelmingly Norse (almost entirely Norwegian) and Anglic.
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>>6920650

Over the course if almost 1000 years of course it is.
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>>6918961
Are you this mad because the scottish are utterly genetically superior from not having been starved by their betters like you were? Bug beneath the boot of the proud tall scottish warrior, we would crush your skull in one tense of our gigantic phallus like (min 10 inch of course) fingers.
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>>6920791

The average height in Scotland is like 1.78 at best. I am 1.78 and am taller than many men I meet.
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>>6918430
ITT: Several flavours of anglo fight like chimps to decide who is less anglo
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>innocent Scots
YEAH ABANDON EM
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>>6920945
>Yugoslavs are just autistic swarthy Slavs killing each other over which abrahamic faith they are
>Anglos and Irish are just ginger alcoholics killing each other over the colours green and orange
>Gran Colombia broke up because a bunch of ayy Hermanos couldn't agree on anything
What the fuck is wrong with these people



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