[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vr / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Home]
Board
Settings Home
/his/ - History & Humanities


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.



>hurr dur there never was a dark ages it was just a myth they built 14 churches in 300 years
>>
>>6917989
They built 14 churches? Lol what the fuck where? Probably my town alone has 14 churches built in the Middle Ages. You're an illiterate moron
>>
>>6918000
FPBP

OP is a faggot.
>>
>>6918000
I referred to the gothic wonders that are cited as a reason for the dark ages not being an underachieving period in time in human history
>>
>>6918026
Literally no one says that you tard
>>
>>6918026
And? Those cathedrals were more complex than the roman and greek architecture.
>>
>>6918031
yes they do, you aren't listening.
>>
>>6917989
Dark ages is like 5th century to 12th in western Europe
>>
>>6918031
a lot of people do
>>
>>6918026
There aee far more than 14, retard. And it’s not only gothic churches which are impressive, obviously
>>
>>6918078
Goth churches were built between 11 and 14th century i think
>>
>>6918078
Dark ages is only 5th century to 8th century
>>
>>6917989
There are more than just 14 Cathedrals in France alone that would've been considered a wonder of the ancient world had they been constructed in antiquity.
>>
>>6918097
>he fell for the carolingian renaissance meme
>>6918086
Doubt 11th, william of sens who is credited as the first gothic architect started mid 12th
>>
>>6918104
>he fell for the “Carolingian Renaissance is a a meme” meme
>>
>>6917989
Shitty bait thread, that aside, I find cathedrals sucky in comparison to classical architecture and more modern art deco stuff.
>>
File: 1454.jpg (391 KB, 1460x589)
391 KB
391 KB JPG
Doesn't seem like a dark age to me
>>
>>6918110
>Charlemagne was able to offer the cultureless and, I might say, almost completely unenlightened territory of the realm which God had entrusted to him, a new enthusiasm for all human knowledge. In its earlier state of barbarousness, his kingdom had been hardly touched at all by any such zeal, but now it opened its eyes to God's illumination. In our own time the thirst for knowledge is disappearing again: the light of wisdom is less and less sought after and is now becoming rare again in most men's minds.[26]
>>
>>6918125
>1453
>dark ages by literally any metric
>>
>>6918000
The Middle Ages is a time period covering roughly a thousand years over the whole of Western Europe. OP's point is rhetoric rather than specifically saying there was exactly 14 churches built during the Medieval period and it lasted 300 years.
>>
>>6918125
this
>>
>>6918125
op btfo
>>
File: pin art.jpg (75 KB, 604x453)
75 KB
75 KB JPG
>mfw with modern archaeology we finally have a good enough sampling of medieval remains to have a decent understanding of their health and habits
>mfw European commoners of the high middle ages are pretty much the healthiest, tallest, longest lived European population that we know of prior to the mid-to-late 19th century
>mfw they were an inch and a half taller than Europeans of the 18th century who created the myth of the horrible middle ages
>mfw there really was a period when European plebs were filthy, malnourished goblinoids, and that period is "between the high middle ages and the late industrial revolution"
>>
The Dark Ages in a colloquial sense is a myth - what's not a myth is the fact that virtually the only time Europe surpassed Asia was between 19th and the end of 20th century.
China, India and oftentimes Mesopotamia were absolute titans compared to Europe.
>>
>>6918181
More like around 15th century with renaissance
>>
>>6918181
>The Dark Ages in a colloquial sense is a myth
In a colloquial sense it is (arguably, dependent on how it is used). However, people forget what the actual origins of the phrase are because of its general negative connotations. The fact is that "Dark Ages" was first coined by historians in the late Medieval and early Renaissance periods because of a general relative lack of literary output and historical record keeping covering a period of hundreds of years and that accurate observation remains a fact until this day.
>>
>>6918177
>European commoners of the high middle ages are pretty much the healthiest, tallest, longest lived European population that we know of prior to the mid-to-late 19th century
>>
>>6918206
>black death
>high middle ages
>>
File: otm15vc.gif (220 KB, 408x478)
220 KB
220 KB GIF
>>6918212
It was the high middle DARK ages with inquisitions and crusades killing thousands of tall well-fed europeans
>>
>>6918212
There are different periodizations.

Some date the periods from 476 to 1000 as "early", 1000 to ~1300 as "high" and 1300 onward as "late".

Others classify the first five centuries as "high" and the following four centuries as the "Low Middle Ages"

The use of "high" is inverse
>>
>>6918252
Nice bait, discord trannie.
>>
>>6917989
It was dark because rome fell and Europe was in the hands of germanic barbarians
>>
Ankor wat was bigger than any medieval european city, and had bigger cathedrals too
>>
>>6917989
For most of Europe, there wasn't a Dark Age. It was basically the result of the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Everywhere else either resumed life as normal, or in the case of the Eastern Roman Empire, continued thriving.
>>
>>6918000
Best post in this thread
OP cannot stop sucking dick
>>
>>6918327
>heh forget about all the lack of philosophy and historical record keeping that the the Dark Ages get's its name from
>they built a church with some weird looking creatures on a wall where they could gather to pretend wine was literal blood of a Jew God.
>>
>>6918355
Wut? Middle Ages is full of philosophy. But since it hurt your feelings you just ignore Thomas of Aquinas and his buddies.
>>
>>6917989
Fuck you you muslim faggot
>>
>>6918355
Go dilate somewhere else.
>>
They call it the dark ages because European women were sucking on big black Turkish cock
>>
>>6918355
There are many record keepers and philosophers from the middle ages. You clearly have some personal issues to work out, but those have nothing to do with the historical certainty of all this
>>
>>6918371
Or Albertus Magnus who taught St. Thomas
>>
>>6918371
>>6918382
>>6918382
>>6918387
Let's have a little competition.

Name a few major European philosophers that are known to this day who wrote their works between 500-1000AD. You can have the whole of Western Europe.

For each one you name I will name a Greek philosopher who is known to this day, let's see who runs out of names first.
>>
>>6918392
During the Middle Ages, there was no philosophy in western Europe independent of the church and little, really, in the way of scientific progress. It wasn't until the years following the reformation that things starting moving - Rene Decartes (1596-1650) is regarded as the father of modern philosophy, while Francis Bacon (1561-1626) set out the scientific methodology and Galileo (1564-1642) and his contemporaries and successors did the observations and formulated the theories.
>>
>>6918402
>there was no philosophy in western Europe independent of the church
Albertus Magnus and St. Thomas were working 'underground' because the Church banned Aristotle for a while. You don't think that's "independent" from the Church. You think they just rolled over because they're stupid Christians who obeyed authority all the time?
>>
>>6918409
Why on earth would you think someone from the middle ages, with a mind steeped in primitive mumbo jumbo could teach us anything?
>>
>>6918420
In fairness Aquinas did teach us that erectile dysfunction was caused by demons.
>>
>>6918399
you're just changing the goal now to talk about the relative difference between classical antiquity and medieval times. this is also a well documented topic discussed ad nauseam. Western Europe carried through the culture of the Roman times one way or another man, look at Ireland, Britain, France, wherever you'd like around this area.
>>
>>6918399
>Greek philosophers
Are there even that many?
Aside from the normalfag picks like Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras, and diogenes(who may have not even existed). A lot of Greek philosophers seem like nobody's who have not done much.
Also what a faggot move
>nothing happened in medieval
>lol wrong retard
>N-NAME ALL MEDIEVAL PHILOSOPHERS
bait and OP is undoubtedly a hero of cock sucking
>>
>>6918427
>Woman doesn't sin when she gets raped if she doesn't enjoy it
>Impregnation cannot occur without the female partner receiving pleasure
>Therefore it's okay to shame pregnant victims
Based Aquinas
>>
>>6918427
Plato taught us that when your soul which is like the celestial chariot driver of the sun, sees a tight-bodied teenage boy, that your lust to fuck him in the ass comes from its divine nature.
>>
>>6918420
spiritual purity, holiness, dedication to learning that is a forerunner of the renaissance ideals
>>
>>6918443
Plato really was /ourguy/
>>
>>6918438
You've just named four from my time period, mane four from your's. 500-1000AD Western Europe, go go go.

>>6918434
>you're just changing the goal now to talk about the relative difference between classical antiquity and medieval times.
No, that is literally the entire point of the term "Dark Ages".
>>
>>6918447
Dedication as taught by the Catholic church leads to only one thing, the unquestioning acceptance of meaningless dogma and ritual.
>>
File: IHSBN.png (91 KB, 350x495)
91 KB
91 KB PNG
>>6918456
>Created the civilized world
>meaningless
>>
>>6918455
>you just named 4 from time period
Answer my question faggot
What other Greek philosophers are actually important
>>
>>6918462
Egypt and China, among others, were already civilized long before europeans finally emerged from their caves
>>
>>6918462
I doubt that there's anything in Scholasticism that is even worth reading. I doubt we'll find the answers to today's problems by pondering how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Redundant, worthless knowledge from an age of primitive ignorance.
>>
>>6918177
>European commoners of the high middle ages are pretty much the healthiest, tallest, longest lived European population that we know of prior to the mid-to-late 19th century

Bullshit. They were better off than slaves and coloni in Roman times but much less healthy than their hunter-gatherer and pastoral nomad ancestors.
>>
>>6918465
>>6918465
Answer my question, what major philosophers can you name over a 500 year time period over half a continent? 500-1000AD major philosophers from Western Europe, get on it nigger.
>>
>>6918485
>China
>civilized

Don't make me raff.

>>6918488
>Literally copying a 19th century meme without any evidence

There he is, the seething little boy with father issues.
>>
>>6918498
>Don't make me raff.
You're too busy coping anyway.
>>
The Renaissance was about regaining this

>Civilitas— civilization (Latin): The Roman imperial state claimed to be a superior form of political organization—not just superior to existing governments, but superior to any governments that might ever exist. Combining classical Greek philosophy and imperialism, the Romans placed heated importance on civilitas, civilization, as it signified an order of social organization that allowed human beings to become the fully rational beings their divine Creator wished them to be.
>>
File: 1538123385528.jpg (127 KB, 691x527)
127 KB
127 KB JPG
>6918494<
>yo tell me actual philosophers of the time
>NO U
based bait nigger
Was already told philosophers by other anons but ignores them for that sweet sweet (you)s
Also what is this listing
>middle ages 470 AD to 1500 AD
>NO MY TIME PERIOD REEEEEE
>>
>>6918494
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede

this dude
>>
>>6918518
I'm not sure he is as well known as Plato, but I will grant that as one. You need three more then I will start naming more names.
>>
>>6918528
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scotus_Eriugena

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boethius

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anselm_of_Canterbury
>>
Who actually like Greek philosophy?
Honest question
>>
>>6918528
show me classical greeks to compare then
>>
>>6918528
William of Ockham
>>
>>6918552
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scotus_Eriugena
A neoplatonist, fine two.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boethius
Best known for translating Aristotle, but fine, 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anselm_of_Canterbury
Post 1000AD. So no. If you think that is unfair let's be clear I am giving you half a continent and 500 years.

You have three, there has already been four major Greek philosophers named who dwarf any of those (but I'm not counting that). So you need two more than I have to name one.
>>
>>6918583
Not 500-1000AD.
>>
>>6918608
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiodorus
>>
>>6918604
I'm sick of your gay jewish game, name me one Jewish philosopher among all these thousands of years and I'll forgive you the (((interest)))
>>
>>6918608
>NOOOOOOOO
>FELLOW MY GAY RULES
>THE MEDIEVAL AGES DID NOT GO TO 1500
>>
>>6918608
autism
>>
>>6918604
>future philosophers base their philosophy off the past
Holy fuck
Is this the state of >muh gayreeks philosophy
>>
>>6918613
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiodorus
Not really clear from the Wikipedia page what contributions he has made to anything (although he sounds like a good teacher) but I am being generous so 4.

So I have Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras and Diogenes already. And I add Pyrhho, Zeno of Elea, Epicurus and Leucippus.

Your go.
>>
>>6918644
>it's not fair, there was no Dark Ages because hundreds of years later something something and THAT'S EXACTLY THE SAME THING as 500AD!!!
>>
>>6918658
>Leucippus
doubt that he even existed.
>>
>>6918658
>Greek philosophers
>mentions those who also might not have even existed
What a lad
>>
>>6918697
Fine, I'm not even going to argue it, I'm not going to run up short any time soon. You still have three more names of major philosophers from 500-1000AD from half a continent to give.
>>
>>6918693
Tell you what we can do historians between 500-1000AD from anywhere in Western Europe vs Roman historians.
>>
>>6918720
Yo lad can you fix up the sentence
>>
>>6918720
>Western Europe

Why only Western? I thought this was an indictment of Christianity.
>>
File: 2AQUTte.jpg (52 KB, 620x413)
52 KB
52 KB JPG
>>6918729
Let's play a game. You name major historians from anywhere in Western Europe who wrote their works between 500-1000AD and I will name major Roman historians from antiquity. I will be so generous that I will give household names while I allow you to desperately Google minor scholars.

Let's play.
>>
>>6918747
I don't know where you got that from.
>>
>>6918759
The Dark Ages meme is an indictment of Christianity in any sense that claims the Dark Ages last past the Migrations.
>>
>>6918755
Why western?
I thought this was about medieval Europe not Western Europe, did western Europe hurt your mommy anon?
>>
>>6918768
The Dark Ages is a term for the lack of literary output, specifically philosophical and historical for the time period often called the Early Middle Ages.
>>
>>6918769
Medieval is a term that applies to Western Europe.
>>
>>6918485
>muh they wuz mo advanced back den

yeah and look at those places now goober. Would you rather live in Europe, Egypt, or China?

fucking goober.
>>
File: 14232757191.png (10 KB, 429x410)
10 KB
10 KB PNG
>>6918181
>the only time Europe surpassed Asia was between 19th and the end of 20th century.

Lmao what the fuck are you smoking? Europe and Asia were on par for most of their histories with Europe pulling ahead by the 13th century while Asia stagnated for the next 600 years, the only advancement being technological drift from Europe and Asia minor slowly making its way Eastwards. And America doorkicking in Japan being an exception there.

The Middle East had some legs up on Europe but also had several steps down in other areas. You can say the two regions were largely equal as a whole until the 16th century as Europe underwent the Renaissance while the Middle East went through the anti intellectual late Islamic reforms which saw them also stagnate like the far East had.
>>
>>6918976
>>6918976
>Sodomy got you burnt or castrated
kek
>>
>>6918078
>>6918097
Different parts of Europe had their own distinct dark ages. Some ended relatively soon like Italy's, France under the Carolingians or Spain once Muslim rule was consolidated in the 8th Century. At the same time you have, despite the wonderful works of art coming out the Isles, places like England where Pax Romana and all of the political stability provided by the Romans was sorely missed up until the 10th Century at the very earliest.
>>
>>6918078
> look at this brainlet

Dark ages are a meme.
>>
>>6918181
Look who paid attention at his history class in kindergarten!
>>
>>6918485
China wasn’t
>>
>>6918288
>bigger cathedrals
those werent cathedrals
cahtedrals only refer to christian temples (not all of them)
>>
File: cathedral.jpg (392 KB, 1280x804)
392 KB
392 KB JPG
Technically European architecture has been on another level than anywhere else in the world for the past 2000 years. Nothings equals the Pantheon, Gothic cathedrals dwarf anything anywhere else on the planet, not just in terms of building size but in regards to the technical specifications. It weren't just piles of stones like the pyramids in Egypt, the Americas or Asia, but they were actually encompassing volumes that would fit the largest temples in the rest of the world - all that was achieved with only a fraction of the manpower available than in Asia or the Americas.
>>
>>6918058
Spotted the illiterate fool.
>>
>>6918438
Really? Not Epicurus or Pyrrus, Zeno... Also Democritus who is well know for precursing the atomic theory.
And to some extent, Hipatya...
Those are just the more well known other than the classical triad (Soc., Pla., Arist.), and I dont even care that much about this.
>>
>>6918981
>gayreeks tranny mods banned me for stating sodomy laws were a thing and that greek society respected the homosexual
>>
>>6918355
It's full of Medieval philosophers and intellectuals and even a decent number of mathematicians, you're an idiot.
>>6918288
It wasn't bigger than Byzantium and while it might be bigger than an european cathedral in the area it covered it was both shorter and less complex inside without true archs, domes and way less available internal spaces in general, it was considerably less complex as an architectural feat
>>
>>6919920
While Epicurus is sometimes talked about in the >normalfag circle, also which pyrrus are you mentioning? Pyrrho the father of skepticism? Pyrrhus the man we get the Pyrrhic victory from? Pyrrus his son?
I think the most influential man on the list is Democritus.
Aside from Democritus, I would not say they are more well known than the triad of autism
As it this the way I graded them is arbitrary as fuck, mostly due to the autism of the other anon who kept spouting autistic rules
>>
>>6918288
>bigger cathedrals too

It's a building complex of independent structures, each of whom are not very impressive on their own.

>OR IS IT?
>>
File: 1516489573469.gif (804 KB, 720x400)
804 KB
804 KB GIF
>>6918288
The comparison of architecture by
>bro bigger
>bro nicer
is the gayest fucking fucking shit in history
You study the architecture to understand the POV of the people who built those buildings.
But faggots have to go and ruin everything and go >well I no like look and absolutely destroy the discussion there could have been
>>
>>6920026
t. African
>>
File: AUTISTIC SHRIEKSING.gif (669 KB, 480x480)
669 KB
669 KB GIF
>>6920030
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I HAVE BEEN FOUND OUT
>>
>muh brown bricks on top of each other
>>
>>6918026
There are a fuckload of gothic churches and cathedrals. You just know about the biggest and most touristy.
>>
The 'Dark Age' was an invention by protestant thinkers during the era of enlightenment in an attempt to paint the Catholic Church as anti-enlightenment and thus anti-intellectual. The middle ages gave a perfect target for those thinkers since during their time this time frame was synonymous with catholicism.
>>
>>6920231
Europe was in a dark age until it surpassed Islamic lands, China and India in all forms of civilization. This happened in the 15th century. Although China still had a leg up on Europe well into the 17th century.
>>
Man, this OP is the biggest cocksucking retard I've seen in a while. Hilarious seeing him get battered ITT.
>>
>>6920255
The retarded Chinese couldn't even figure out that the Earth was spherical until Jesuits taught them.
>>
>>6918181
These are the kinds of posts you get when you don't allow for regular bug fumigation.
>>
The Dark Ages did exist and it was called by Christian bishops as such. (Possidius? Not sure)
They refer to the invasion of,Europe by multiple peoples, the breakup of trade with the East and the breakdown of the Roman Empire in the West.
It has nothing to do with Christianity. Nor all muh churches an argument against this.
>>
>>6920023
Yes the tower itself is only 65 meters tall but it is built on a giant terrace/ramp, while the cathedrals’ towers can surpass 100 m. I also suspect that tower is really lacking available spaces inside but I’ll have to check. It’s also worth noting that Angkor wat is an unicuum the other temples there are not comparable
>>
>>6918000
>>6918012
>the dark ages are supposed to be the entire middle ages
Why are you even in this conversation?



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.